sk-lore

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but you can always eat bugs

[rough sandal]

It may not come necessarily from Hallownest but if necessary through holy ritual we can transubstantiate the secular food into Hallownestian food

Like the bread in Eucharist

[rough sandal]

Yeah tbh

[rough sandal]

Idk I saw that a Minecraft cookbook existed and my way of viewing life turned upside down

[lean temple]

Flukes

[rough sandal]

Glazed mushrooms from the fungal wastes...

[gilded beacon]

There's an Stardew valley one too

[rough sandal]

Mmm yummy

[lean temple]

Graig perhaps half jokingly said Flukes were a delicacy, he even asked TC what they tasted like

[rough sandal]

They probably would get all sort of diseases but at least they don't have any bones :P

[rough sandal]

True

But idk I tried Stardew Valley and didn't fully click with me

It's a routine simulator

The NPCs don't have real dialogue and such

[arctic lantern]

Does anyone know where this is from

[rough sandal]

The music is pretty good tho

[rough sandal]

I think this is when they both have an apparition of the Virgin Mary and become rather flabbergasted as a result

[real crater]

From the lace and hornet fight in the demo

[arctic lantern]

Ohhhhhh

[rough sandal]

Nah seriously no idea

[rough sandal]

It's a very epicsauce moment

[lean temple]

So I think it's pretty neat the Cult's symbol looks like a treble cleft

[worthy raptor]

Silksong!

[quartz salmon]

It's from IGN's footage, they release high quality videos of both the moss grotto and the deep docks demo

Lace strikes this pose when you die to her

[gilded beacon]

She is such a drama queen

[quartz salmon]

She's a band kid

It seems everyone is in Pharloom

[lean temple]

Oh yeah what's the main take on Lace's age?

Was Hornet being brash or is she actually a kid?

[spark valve]

she's probably a kid relative to hornet either way

[lean temple]

Well yeah Hornet is old as hell, but is Lace an adult relative to her own species?

[raven condor]

Not a child, but a childish to her. It’s as if a someone in their early 20s was fighting a 45 year old, the 45 year old would be like, “look kid, don’t mess with me”

[gilded beacon]

Maybe she was just mocking her?

[lean temple]

So y'all are leaning more to it not being literal. Cool

[spark valve]

It’s not like there’s really any way to tell the difference

And there probably never will be unless phantom has one specific explanation for their appearance

[lean temple]

Not really, except we know about Lace that she is a skilled fencer and also possibly sadistic to an extent.

[gilded beacon]

Unless we get an age confirmation of Lace, it's most like that Hornet is just making fun of her

[lean temple]

Also wouldn't make sense for Hornet to just go in for the kill on a child

[midnight reef]

Hornet is just a bit of an ass

[lean temple]

She's good at heart I think but jaded

She didn't have the best childhood

[midnight reef]

She was royalty, though she lacked her mother for much of it

I dont think it was overly bad

[gilded beacon]

Dead mom + stupid dad is a pretty bad combo

[lean temple]

She grew up in Deepnest, she lacked her father, she had to see the kingdom die and spend her life killing her own Siblings

She's been through some shit

And she was likely forced to train in combat from a young age

[gilded beacon]

Also she was expected to inherit the throne of Deepnest, her whole existence is just for her to be Deepnest queen

[dull ice]

hold on wait i cant remember was the white lady her mom or herra the beast i think is her name the dreamer in deepnest

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah

[dull ice]

oh

[sinful nimbus]

PK didn't raise her and wasn't stupid 🥱

[real crater]

Herrah was promised a child in return for becoming a dreamer

[dull ice]

and the white lady raised her im guessing?

[sinful nimbus]

No

[real crater]

No the weavers did

[dull ice]

oh

[real crater]

That's the reason hornet uses silk abilities in hk she learnt them from the weavers

[dull ice]

wait wasnt it the white lady was the pk wife but pk had a child with herrah to seal thk off?

[opal beacon]

I fOUND E1338 ON REDDIT

[lean temple]

Yeah, tho Herrah and Hornet did love each other a lot. The most vulnerable we ever see Hornet is after her mother dies. I believe Herrah knowing she'd be gone wanted a child from PK to ensure there was someone strong to protect her people.

[real crater]

Who?

[lean temple]

Yeah she inherited the powers of silk. She's a spider

[real crater]

White lady was the wife of pk and pale king wanted herrah to be a dreamer and herrah asked for a child in return for becoming a dreamer

[dull ice]

and the pk didnt want to give up his wife white lady thats why he used herrah instead

[gilded beacon]

They two loved each other, but not for long
The Pale King was absent throughout her childhood

[lean temple]

She's a pretty tragic character tbh

[opal beacon]

A fucking cake, a fuckimg cake

Oh, wait

[gilded beacon]

She was born and raised in a abusive household

[opal beacon]

Its a birthday day, lmao, why i am so stupid

[lean temple]

Omg imagine if it was the actual cake

[gilded beacon]

Silksanity at it's finest

[opal beacon]

[sinful nimbus]

?

[opal beacon]

Reddit is so toxic, non-hk fans are made in TC, because of 20$

[dull ice]

wait who has seen the release date trailer?

[plush cloud]

basically everyone

[dull ice]

makes sense do u know the one little pink dude who hornet slaps?

[plush cloud]

yeah

[opal beacon]

Kinda news : The second best leaker Billbil-Kun confirmed 20$ price

[dull ice]

what if thats optional in the game and if u slap him hes a boss fight if u dont hes not kinda like zote but reversed save him boss fights dont no boss fight\

[lean temple]

They deserve more tbh

[lean temple]

Seems like a scripted sequence

[plush cloud]

yeah, i think it was confirmed a bit before it too, real respect to the devs for not being greedy

[dull ice]

fr

[lean temple]

Maybe he tries kissing Hornet after she helps him with smthg, but she wasn't letting that happen lol

[dull ice]

lol

[opal beacon]

Europe - €19.50
United States - $19.99
United Kingdom - £16.75
Canada - $25.99
Australia - $29.50
New Zealand - $28.99

[plush cloud]

brasil?

[dull ice]

dang thats brings up a predicament

[opal beacon]

He only leaked these

TC are goats

[plush cloud]

[dull ice]

for me

[opal beacon]

Nuu

[dull ice]

i play on switch if i wait for physical copies i can get the game for 15 dollars because im a pro member but ill have to wait and try to avoid spoilers orrr i can get it on the first day but pay the full 20 dollars from the eshop ;-;

[plush cloud]

gamestop also confirmed the price

[opal beacon]

The best game of my life for 20$

[gilded beacon]

SS being 20$ feels wrong, I would gladly pay more

[opal beacon]

We're robbing TC

[dull ice]

ikr

[lean temple]

We need to build a TC shrine

[dull ice]

i feel like the minimum should be 40$

[lean temple]

TC open a PayPal so we can throw money at you

[opal beacon]

A sanctuary, not just small shrine

[sinful nimbus]

No one is buying SS when Manifold Garden is the same price 🥀

[lean temple]

TC would never charge that much

[plush cloud]

yeah

[gilded beacon]

A whole temple

[dull ice]

ik but it just feels wrong for it to be 20$ i mean were kinda like robbing them for such an amazing game

anyways i gtg cya

[lean temple]

They're just goated like that

[plush cloud]

they dont make it for money, they make it for fun so not really

[lean temple]

I mean they're still gonna make millions from it

[plush cloud]

true, they took 7 years to finish it cuz it was "too fun" to make the game

[lean temple]

Absolute legends

[opal beacon]

Even more, 8.5 years, they started making hornet dlc alongside the content packs

[plush cloud]

so, there is gonna be more than just one nail right?

[lean temple]

We never see Hornet with another weapon if that's what you're asking

Her Needle was made specifically for her

[gilded beacon]

But it seems that you can upgrade it

[lean temple]

That's another thing yeah

[plush cloud]

the life thing changes

[gilded beacon]

The description and sprite shows that it's worn out

[lean temple]

But I meant Hornet won't replace her trusty old Needle

[lean temple]

Repair it

[gilded beacon]

Basically

[lean temple]

Idk if that's bcz of the Reaper Crest

[mortal skiff]

Oh, that's based on the crest she's currently has.

[gilded beacon]

Yeah that's because of the crest, we don't know if it changes the damage tho

Probably not since we can already improve her needle

[lean temple]

Just the attacks afaik

[mortal skiff]

It's implied they also change other stuff, like her healing, but we know little to nothing regarding that.

[gilded beacon]

Her tool slots too

[mortal skiff]

Maybe.

[gilded beacon]

I don't think so, since the crest with most slots would be objectively better, so it doesn't make much sense to me.
It's something to change your play style not to improve it

[weak surge]

shaw

[gilded beacon]

shaw

[mortal skiff]

For that a different approach would simply to have different ratios of colors, one would be focused on red slots, one on the blue ones and so on, but the total numbers of slots remains the same.

If we don't instead go with the simpler idea that the slots are universally shared by all Crests, and instead you find upgrades to increase the total number.

[gilded beacon]

Still think that that's bad, of course the one with more Active tool slots would be better than any other

[mortal skiff]

Are you implying that the yellow and blue tools are bad because...?

[gilded beacon]

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if I have more options to directly aid me in battle, that's simply the best one

[mortal skiff]

No reason to assume that the yellow and blue tools aren't capable to do that, since they could still empower Hornet directly for combat purposes.
Like, if you are not that expert at using red tools and your run out of them, then tough luck. A crest could be focused on a playstyles which benefits from more passive effects from the yellow and blue tools.

[spark valve]

passives can also directly aid you in battle

[quartz salmon]

Any theories about what yellow tools do

We still don't know

[gilded beacon]

Exploration? Based on the compass simbol that we see

[spark valve]

magma bell is blue so that's probably not the dichotomy

[gentle aspen]

blue tools might just be environmental stuff

[gilded beacon]

The simbol kinda looks like a compass, I don't have any other ideas tho

[gentle aspen]

heat frost poison etc

maybe darkness too

[spark valve]

that would be pretty lame

[gilded beacon]

Yeah

[mortal skiff]

either that, or for defense purposes?

[quartz salmon]

Red = active
Blue = Passive
Yellow =

[opal beacon]

Blue tools might UI stuff like bone mask or something, and yellow tools are something like compass, you know

[spark valve]

blue and yellow are both passive

[quartz salmon]

More passive

[lean temple]

The Magma Bell from the trailer is blue iirc

And it protects from environmental hazards

[opal beacon]

Hmmmm

We'll figure it out in 5 days

5 days before this

[gilded beacon]

Somehow five days are feeling longer than six years

[quartz salmon]

Just gotta get through this last part... Sunday to Thursday

[drifting igloo]

king?

[lean temple]

"HK was a rushed game made on a shoestring budget"
TC domain expansion: Silksong

[drifting igloo]

nvm ion wanna be spoiled

[lean temple]

Silksong just looks so much higher quality already

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, specially the grafics, it's more colorful and beautifully animated

[quartz salmon]

Just go look at those ign videos they're beautiful

[lean temple]

And how interactive the environment is

[gilded beacon]

I literally gasped out of excitement just by seeing the small turning animation that Hornet does when abruptly changing from left to right

[lean temple]

My jaw dropped from the 2019 DEMO. Moss Grotto looked beautiful

I also love how they made Hornet's cloak more vibrant

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, they've also made ALL the colors more vibrant

And it's so gorgeous

[lean temple]

Fits in with the theme of actually saving the kingdom

[gilded beacon]

This kingdom isn't dead and you can clearly see it, you gotta save it before it's too late

[obsidian quail]

do the Weavers control the silk?

is that like their thing

[quartz salmon]

Yeah think of them as spider mages they cast spells and make seals of binding with silk

[gilded beacon]

Like snail Shamans with the soul

[rough sandal]

Isn't pharloom a kingdom

[gilded beacon]

Maybe it's a republic

[drifting igloo]

idfk i confined myself from everything in this game

[rough sandal]

It's the setting for Silksong

[drifting igloo]

ik that

[rough sandal]

It's more likely than a unicameral representative democracy anyways

[drifting igloo]

lol

[rough sandal]

I mean I'd love to see that but I know Team Cherry ain't gonna do that 😔

I would've loved to see the laws that the pale king passed and shit

[drifting igloo]

it wouldn't be the pale king's law since its another kingdom

it got its own rules

[gilded beacon]

Maybe Lurien was the only one doing actual ruler duties

[drifting igloo]

idk that but either way no rule got respected by none

[gilded beacon]

I say that because the PK just seems too isolated inside the WP and too busy with the infection thing to actually rule

Also it gives Lurien an actual use

[drifting igloo]

nah bro just got tired of making his wife have babies so he just vanished

[gilded beacon]

He's just gone for milk

[thick canyon]

This is super wierd but one thing wich i'm super exited for in silksong is learning more about the crawly-roll-beasts (like the beast in god tamers fight)

[opal beacon]

It goes even further up...i think many will die in here in Silksong story

[gilded beacon]

Seriously how does hornet survive that?

[rough sandal]

Feather Falling boots

duh

[sinful nimbus]

50 bucks says an elevator is built there in the late game

[lean temple]

Lurien like makes sure no chaos breaks out in the City of Tears. He just keeps the peace.

[gilded beacon]

So he's the ruler of the city?

[lean temple]

I think he like takes care of it for the king. He isn't called mayor or governor

But yeah he likely just acted to protect the city of tears and prevent chaos. Homeboy was rich too and very loyal to the king. Anyway this is HK lore lol.

[gilded beacon]

Is he the "Watcher" because he watches out for the city?

[vestal swan]

Yeah, he's bug batman

Except you know without any of the cool stuff

[gilded beacon]

Bugman

[vestal swan]

He just has a giant telescope

[gilded beacon]

That's pretty cool actually

You can watch lots of things with it!

[midnight reef]

thats just the crests

each crest changes the UI, and changes Hornets attacks, tool slots, and potentially her healing mechanics

I assume one of the crests will likely have a very HK like heal, 1/3 starting silk for 1 mask

[dry hollow]

this is something I find alot of people have probably alr said in chat, but like what will happen to the knight once silksong comes out? will the knight be mentioned in silksong?

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong is a spinoff story where the knight is irrelevant

[dry hollow]

ahhh okk

so its like hollow knight but based off of horent

*hornet

[terse wadi]

It's in the same universe

[dry hollow]

ahh

[terse wadi]

Hallownest still exists Hornet just goes elsewehre (unwillingly)

[vestal swan]

I hate to think of it like timelines but that's basically what we're going to deal with probably

[terse wadi]

Multiple endings canon already means timelines

[vestal swan]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh

[terse warren]

And if Silksong gets multiple endings, that just means even more branches! Ain't that fun?

[lean temple]

Yeah so both games exist in temporal voids or smthg

[terse wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-very-poor-choice-words-gif-22861860

[lean temple]

Badly worded but like you know what I mean, nothing is set in stone as to how the timeline progresses or how silksong fits into it

[terse wadi]

I know what you mean

Void is just a very contentious topic here

[lean temple]

Ohhh yeah, that void

[sinful nimbus]

[chilly gyro]

Wonder if hot springs are gonna make a comeback in Silksong. Though the use of silk instead of soul would probably not make them very useful

Or perhaps some kind of silk based equivalent?

[foggy fractal]

silk station

[sinful nimbus]

Silk is soul

[chilly gyro]

Maybe it’s just like a giant pile of cobwebs that hornet just absorbs through osmosis

[sinful nimbus]

"For Hornet, silk and soul are inseparably bound, her life-force fused with her thread. "

So hotsprings could still work

[chilly gyro]

Got it. It would just be converted to silk due to the spool.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[vestal swan]

Yes she's using soul to make soul bound silk, and collecting threads from enemies to harvest the soul off or maybe just completely repurposed the thread? Ew I wonder if she's eating it

Do we have silksong ice??? @terse warren

[terse warren]

No clue if we do sorry it just got me thinking

Considering how the game seems to be a bit more extreme with its biomes (Coral Forest, Marrow, Lava biome) I wouldn't be surprised if we got an ice biome

Especially considering that places get colder the higher you go and the game is all about ascending

[vestal swan]

True it does feel more wild but I don't know about extreme, I could be convinced that all of that is molten metal not lava

[faint pelican]

the slope areas have had a frozen screen overlay in some trailer shots

[vestal swan]

[terse warren]

Which ones?

Actually yeah I remember

[faint pelican]

Im on mobile so its a pain to check atm

I think the steam screenshots might have one too? gimme a sec

nop was another set of images somewhere else

[terse warren]

@faint pelican you mean this? (Ignore the bars to the side I am also on mobile)

[faint pelican]

yea

could be either ice or mycelium, I think ice is more likely

plus the blue masks

[lapis creek]

i hope it leads into a full on ice area but that might be asking for too much

[faint pelican]

please no ice physics

[terse warren]

Borders of the screen seem to slowly be freezing so

[faint pelican]

you promoted zexion william, learn from its mistakes

[terse warren]

So uh yeah seems like we do

[vestal swan]

Interesting

Oh no

I remember somebody saying something about a cold drink to keep you safe in the forge, now we're going to need a hot drink for the cold area. We were totally joking but I think TTacco predicted this as a meme comparing it to monster Hunter

[foggy fractal]

if Hornet doesn't move around enough she takes freeze dmg

🥶 Hornet frozen in a comically large icicle like that one shaman in the crystal !

[faint pelican]

eh "hot area burns you" is a common metroidvania shtick

[vestal swan]

But having a beverage to combat it is a very jrpg / monster hunter thing

[terse warren]

She's moving around a lot so uh

Got a feeling it's more so going to be about "safe zones" that you need to reach

[faint pelican]

so "cold area freezes you" is mechanically the same, you just get an item somewhere that lets you withstand it

[terse warren]

And just like in MH, I'll forget to drink it every time 💯💯💯

[faint pelican]

or yea take shelter

[vestal swan]

I would just pack the wrong ones usually

[raven condor]

Hornet getting the varia suit?

[vestal swan]

I hope it's not a shelter mechanic that kind of slows down parkour

[terse warren]

Tbh getting to shelter and having to quickly navigate the cold zones does sound cool to me

I like the idea of having to rush through an area before you find a safe place

[raven condor]

You have to craft campfires as you ascend

[vestal swan]

Now it's just the forest

Don't remind me of that game it was terrible

[terse warren]

It's possible that whatever area is a shelter as some rooms to explore

I think the "shelter" mechanic can be done well in a variety of ways and I'd love to see it

Even just needing to reach a platform on time and you heat up in like 2 seconds

Drinks imo would be the worst option

Basically just Lumafly lantern but again

A paywall and not much more

[vestal swan]

Drink but it refills on benches or u craft it

Brb

[raven condor]

Hot coco confirmed in Silksong??!

[terse warren]

I entirely forgot crafting is a thing

Ugggh yeah I guess it would work

I'd still prefer shelter mechanic

Honestly if we actually do need a drink in one area I hope we don't need a different one in another

Best timeline would be Forge needs Cold Drink and Ice Area uses Shelter

[foggy fractal]

Hornet gets fire orb so she can survive

that or a big winter coat

[raven condor]

I realllllly hope crafting in Silksong isn’t stupid

Time to sit on a bench and then farm the one item five rooms over seven times to make sure I have enough warming potion.

[foggy fractal]

we already have magmabell for lava no ?

[terse warren]

Also judging by the amount of masks hornet has, this seems to be pretty late game

Guess I was right when I said "the higher you go the colder it gets"

It would also be fun if this area felt a bit like the Summit from Celeste

Slowly climbing towards the higher areas as the parkour gets more and more difficult

And some secrets hidden on the opposite side where you need to go

[terse warren]

Magmabell?

[sinful nimbus]

Is crafting actually confirmed

Or do you mean using boneshards to make tools

[raven condor]

Yes.

[sinful nimbus]

ohhh the forge daughter thing

[foggy fractal]

2025 trailer 29 seconds in

[sinful nimbus]

that could just be a generic material used to create tools at the shop

[terse warren]

Oh yeah

Guess then it is an item based

So yeah I'd rather it not be item based again

To be honest it seems very unlikely to me that they'd show in the trailer someone already being there without the protection item especially considering the 9 masks so

I have a feeling it'll be shelter mechanic

[tawdry flare]

The ‘crafting’ is just sitting at a bench and repairing tools with shell shards though ain’t it

Maybe crafting kits permanently unlock tiers of tools or something idk

[raven condor]

We do see her actually using in game resources to craft the bell. Additionally we already know mossberrys and such exist, so I would assume we need more than just pale ore to craft things.

[obsidian quail]

how does Hornet have this ability? just because she’s half god and spider?

i didn’t know if Silk was a Weaver exclusive thing

or if Hornet’s powers are different than Weavers

any lore experts please

Weavers and Hornet confuse me

[lapis creek]

for hornet silk and soul are the same thing according to team cherry

this is most likely not true for the weavers, where silk is silk and soul is soul

[hazy hemlock]

i don’t think crafting is anything to worry about i don’t think they would make consumable tools a grind to craft

[lapis creek]

but they can still do unique things with silk as mentioned in hollow knight let me get the line

[obsidian quail]

so Hornet’s soul power just manifests as silk

[lapis creek]

seems like that yeah

[obsidian quail]

and she doesn’t have any music stuff like Weavers

[lapis creek]

her power over soul is probably due to her relationship with the pale king

[lapis creek]

she gets the needolin eventually idk what the weavers have

[obsidian quail]

is pharloom their home?

[lapis creek]

idk if thats confirmed but that seems to be the consensus

[obsidian quail]

hmm i wonder if they’ll have their own area

[terse wadi]

I don't think it'll be a very happy one considering what's happening to them there

[sinful nimbus]

I think they use soul imbued silk too

Hence them making spells and seals

They also help Hornet restore her spells

[obsidian quail]

what’s happening to the Weavers

[obsidian quail]

so the Weavers are anti-citadel?

[sinful nimbus]

Probably

[obsidian quail]

wait what happened to the Weavers

i thought they were chilling

[sinful nimbus]

Seem to be imprisoned

[terse wadi]

They're in camps, of the bad king

*kind

[lapis creek]

maybe

is spider silk distinct from weaver silk

[gentle aspen]

the taste

[lapis creek]

or is lemm just a racist

[sinful nimbus]

I believe so

[terse wadi]

Weaver silk has soul infused

[sinful nimbus]

If it wasn't unique the spiders were losers who lacked the creativity to do anything magical with their silk

[terse wadi]

New Headcanon

[lapis creek]

yeah i always thought the weavers were just exceptional in that regard without necessarily having superpowers

i could be wrong though

[terse wadi]

I think it's innate to weavers but hornet being a spider with soul manipulation allowed her to also tap into that skill

[tawdry flare]

wait this is awesome

[lapis creek]

it's possible

[raven cove]

Weaver silk is just regular silk that they imbue with soul

I don’t think its composition is different to regular silk

PK had heaps of silk delivered to his home that he presumably imbued with Soul himself

At best you could claim that Weavers possess a natural affinity for soul that enables them to manipulate it in that way but that’s neither here nor there

[terse wadi]

I think weaver silk is still different even without soul infusion, else idk how they'd be able to make ancient spells with them, I don't think Normal spiders could do that even if they coulse infuse soul into their silk

[raven cove]

They make spells with soul infused silk

[terse wadi]

I know

Just infusing silk with soul and spellcrafting are two entirely different things

[raven cove]

The latter just requires knowledge

If you’re infusing silk with soul you probably have an idea of how spellcasting works that’s not necessarily a special ability they’re born with

[terse wadi]

Just because I can write doesn't mean I can beat a nobel prize winner in literature

[raven cove]

I have no idea what you’re going on about

Nobody is disagreeing with the idea that weavers are knowledgable spellcasters but those skills can be learned

It’s not like Vessel focus or Shaman focus for example

[terse wadi]

A rare and specific skill might as well be an innate ability if it's passed down in their culture the only other being to craft a SOB besides weavers is to my knowledge WL a HB

This is ancient magic

[raven cove]

… the Weavers never made a functional SoB

[terse wadi]

Correction: they left before they finished it

[raven cove]

PK is the one who did that, he can also make his own SoBs like the one in PoP which is the only one other than the one in the Black Egg also the WL seal isn’t a SoB

[terse wadi]

"To seal or to protect" Paraphrasing but you get the point

[raven cove]

The general consensus is that PK comissioned the Weavers to design it but they lacked the power to actually activate it themselves

The SoB in Deepnest is very clearly a blueprint of sorts it’s not “unfinished” because it’s not sealing anything

Whereas the ones in the Black Egg and PoP are clearly functional

Anyway yes the Weavers are skilled at making seals but this is sort of irrelevant

[terse wadi]

How'd Pharloom seal hornet then

[raven cove]

We don’t know the specifics of how that works but the bugs who capture her also… aren’t Weavers?

[sinful nimbus]

That's a different seal they are using anyway

[pine flax]

not with a SoB, and those aren't Weavers 🐌

[terse wadi]

They are not, someone did it for them

[raven cove]

Or using weaver magic idk why you’d assume that

it’s not a SoB either as above

[sinful nimbus]

I think its plausible the citadel is using weavers for their magical silk

[terse wadi]

What other seals exist (that we know by name)

[sinful nimbus]

The other ones aren't named

[pine flax]

other seals aren't given names but we can see that there are various types

[raven cove]

it is very likely however magic silk does not mean they are using weaver magic

[terse wadi]

It's a SOB until disproven

[raven cove]

magic silk can be used for other magic as PK demonstrates

[raven cove]

You do realize SoBs are a very specific type of seal rigjt

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Seal of Binding

Description:
Intricate seal of ancient design.
Used to contain a powerful force, or to preserve something of great importance.

@vursatility used /journal name: Seal of Binding

[terse wadi]

Bro fell for that low quiality bait, anyways I hope we get names for all the seals

[pine flax]

most of them aren't really that important anyhow

[raven cove]

Anyway, if we return to the original point of discussion it’s my interpretation that Weavers use magical silk specifically because they lack a natural affinity for Soul

[terse wadi]

All lore is important, some is just more important

[raven cove]

The fact that they don’t manipulate Soul directly, and the fact that it’s only Hornet’s silk specifically comes pre-infused implies they don’t have that as an innate ability

[terse wadi]

Not out of the realm of possiblity however I think they do so because they have silk not as compensating

[pine flax]

if they are able to infuse their silk with soul, I would argue that counts as a natural affinity. its just a different way of channeling it

[raven cove]

Their silk doesn’t come pre infused though, and the reason they use it as a medium is presumably because they cannot directly channel soul through their bodies

They’re basically using a tool in a roundabout fashion

Unlike the Scholars they’re also smart enough to not experiment with their own bodies

[pine flax]

Hornet's silk coming pre infused is a quirk of her Wyrm heritage yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the weavers lack affinity for it because logically that would be a prerequisite for being able to imbue it into silk in the first place

[terse wadi]

^

[raven cove]

When I say they lack affinity for it I mean they can’t channel it directly as I stated above

[pine flax]

i mean sure but neither can Hornet

[raven cove]

The Shamans and Vessels/Hornet have no such restriction

[terse wadi]

That doesn't mean a lack of affinity that's just an abiltiy they don't have

[raven cove]

Hornet can

[pine flax]

when does she

[raven cove]

Her silk and soul are inseparably bound, she produces the soul infused silk in her body

Weavers do it externally using exogenous soul

That is an important distinction

[terse wadi]

Dodging the question, when does she focus

[raven cove]

TC specifically mention that her “Bind” is similar in nature to Vessel focus

Nothing implies Weavers can Bind, also she still has a pale shell

She absorbs Soul through her shell like TK

[vestal swan]

This would line up with the medium being outside of the body making it safer for them to cast, I wouldn't say it's an inward focus thing, ignore the term focus here I'm not making a connection to that

[vestal swan]

We don't know that it's going into her body she could be just repurposing the already cursed silk

Since normally it's a product of her body would be kind of weird for her to literally recycle it

[raven cove]

I mean she can absorb Soul and use it to make more Soul infused silk but her absorbing Soul infused silk through her shell and repurposing it is the same difference

It’s distinct from Weavers is what I’m saying

[pine flax]

not much reason to assume she'd be that different from TK in that manner i suppose

[raven cove]

Also I agree with this

You can technically argue Shamans also use tools, which would make Vessels/Hornet unique in that regard but their bodies seem to contain a lot of Soul/magical power so I think it’s a bit iffy (imo the tools are just to amplify their natural spellcasting, as is true of their charms)

But in the case of Weavers they seem to use silk as a medium in order to avoid ending up like the scholars

[vestal swan]

It's just a loose old theory of mine but I always rationalized it by the fact that the body was naturally devoid of its own soul so it was safe to just import it all the time.
And that's also what screwed up the sanctum and the shaman showing his spell outside of his body also would suggest they know better than to do the spell inside of their body

[raven cove]

wdym

He wanted to give TK a copy

Are you talking about how the soul goes into his staff?

[vestal swan]

Yeah sorta

Like they're not shooting us with a fireball they formed in their body they're giving us a fireball they formed from the air

Staff as a medium, helmet/shell to help focus

[raven cove]

I get what you’re saying but it seems like Shaman bodies also hold a lot ot Soul, the Sanctum one was drained for a lot of jars’ worth, would be weird if they didn’t use some of that to charge their spells

Also their bodies are used to mutate TK’s spells which also implies they store quite a lot of magic power

Personally I think the staff is another thing to amplify their powers, similar to their charms and the shit they put around their houses

[vestal swan]

That doesn't entirely make sense to me, if just having a lot of soul was the solution the sanctum wouldn't be so fucked up I think. Even the ones that didn't horribly warp their bodies can do spells and teleport. Like, how do I explain this. It's more like having a higher density of soul gives them a better understanding of it, not just a fuel source. But of course that's not really backed by anything, just me trying to rationalize the differences between everybody using magic

[raven cove]

I guess that makes sense too, but I thought that having a lot of soul was part of the reason the scholars were able to cast no?

I mean they’re not very good at it but normal bugs can’t do anything

Scholars also use tools tbf

But again I think those are more for spell augmentation

Soul Twister at least is, the forehead gems probably a similar principle

[vestal swan]

I wouldn't say normal bugs can't just that they're not, I mean the ones that were focused on learning magic were definitely in the sanctum weren't they? And horrible monkey's paw curling genie wish aside they shouldn't have a need to stuff themselves full of soul if they already had some spells under their belt.

Not the forehead gems

[pine flax]

That soul is probably necessary for them to cast in the first place

[raven cove]

mossbag said something about third eyes I forgot what it was but yeah it’s quite baseless

[vestal swan]

We'll see that's my entire point is that they're just doing it wrong on a fundamental level.
They could already do some spells or this sanctum wouldn't even come into being would it? But then they decided to inject soul into their bodies and take soul out of others?
I feel like if a bug could successfully focus the soul outside of their body and gather it from another source they could form a spell like the shaman did.

[raven cove]

Yeah the soul to power the spell has to come from somewhere, and in casting the spell it seemingly has to be channeled through a medium which is either a tool/silk or whatever or your own body

There is soul in the air but it seems to be inaccessible to most bugs, TK can’t use it to cast spells and the Shamans wouldn’t have needed the corpse pit etc if it was readily available

[vestal swan]

I'm really bad at explaining this even though I've had this theory for years, basically they fucked up by doing more than their body could handle despite already being capable of magic, because they were doing it through their body

[raven cove]

So the questions are “where is the soul coming from” and “what is the casting medium”

Ohhhh wait I think I get it

I can get behind this actually, let me see if I understood

[foggy fractal]

🧩 🧩 🧩 the pieces are connecting...

[terse wadi]

Better at it than me (I suck at explaining things)

[raven cove]

So you’re saying even regular bugs have the ability to cast spells using their OWN soul but using your own body as a medium is a really bad idea, and that because the Scholars continually channeled soul through their bodies they over time needed to find more soul to power their spells so their solution was to inject more soul into their bodies (since that’s what they were using as a medium) and THAT’s what fucked them up

If they had switched over to using a tool after they reached their natural limit they would have been ok

But they instead chose to take soul steroids to improve their casting capacity

[vestal swan]

Yeah that pretty much sums it up I think

[terse wadi]

Soul Steroids is such a wild statement

[vestal swan]

The reason I find it hard to apply the logic other people use to hornet and the vessel is because the vessel doesn't really have a limit they're constantly running on a body that doesn't need it and they can empty it out or fill it back up without issues because it's dead, so I don't think they just have this magic soul manipulation in their back pocket

[sinful nimbus]

🥹

[vestal swan]

What

[terse wadi]

Hard to make a corpse more dead

[sinful nimbus]

anything but pk soul powers

Anyway Hornet puts a wrench into all that and coupled with her saying they draw their power upon similar source its pretty clear its not a property of them being undead but rather an inherited trait from their father

[vestal swan]

Cleary she has her own voidheart in the back pocket except it's the silk heart

[terse wadi]

As long as Hornet doesn't die in any endings PK's Legacy lives on

[pine flax]

i think another problem with the soul scholars is also just... the efficiency of their soul usage
they killed hundreds of bugs just to gain the soul necessary for the most rudimentary and basic spells possible. if that's what was necessary to accomplish THAT, they would've gotten absolutely nowhere trying to channel their own soul alone

[terse wadi]

Eternal, just like Hallownest /j

[gentle aspen]

and even then some of them failed horrendously

[vestal swan]

Well, you got to think which ones did they start off with because they didn't start off fucking up their bodies

[terse wadi]

[gentle aspen]

Horrid physical deformities bruh

[raven cove]

Yes, but them technically being able to do it innately and them not getting very far aren’t mutually excusive

[gentle aspen]

the only ones slightly impressive are soul warrior and master

and master bootganged a technique from a real one

[lapis creek]

i read all of this and im not sure how we concluded that the weavers used soul, is it just an inference based on the fact that they made spells also used by the pale king or what

[pine flax]

maybe if they concentrate really really hard, they could innately conjure a projectile the size of a pea

[sinful nimbus]

They help Hornet restore her silk spells

And were presumably her trainers

[gentle aspen]

idk spells tend to use soul in verse

[sinful nimbus]

So do seals (Ignoring dream stuff)

[raven cove]

I think in theory it makes sense to conclude that any bug could use their own soul to power spells and their own body to channel soul it’s just that unless you have an artifically increased soul capacity (scholars) or an incredibly large base pool (shamans) you aren’t going to get very far, that’s basically what we’re saying

[sinful nimbus]

netherlord 2

[lapis creek]

i need to play this game i keep going back to hollow knight for these things

[raven cove]

The Scholars very quickly exhausted their stores and then had to start taking soulroids

That’s probably why PK told them to quit while they were ahead

They had hit a dead end and were going to do irreversible damage to their bodies in order to overcome it

[lapis creek]

are hornet's silk spells actually spells though

[raven cove]

Yes

[lapis creek]

as opposed to just skills

[raven cove]

That is a weird distinction to make

Her silk skills are magic so they’re spells, it’s not like the term spell has a robust definition in universe

[spark valve]

there are soul particles coming off the incomplete seal of binding in addition to the hornet spells being similar to theirs

[lapis creek]

like if you were physically and technically capable of spinning regular non-soul infused thread around you at high speeds would that not be a similar thing to gossamer storm

[raven cove]

No

[vestal swan]

Probably wouldn't have the same impact

[pine flax]

that would just be string flailing about

[vestal swan]

You got to look at it with anime logic

[lapis creek]

this is the only example im familiar with

[raven cove]

Uninfused silk is just silk, not exactly the most effective weapon

[lapis creek]

i dont actually know what else hornet does in silksong

[raven cove]

Magic silk is apparently as hard as steel when it needs to be

[vestal swan]

She does a sick guitar hero impression

[raven cove]

It’s magic, don’t think too hard about it

[terse wadi]

This guy doesn't silk

[gentle aspen]

Her silk and soul are inseparably bound

Yea, they are

I hope my car tire explodes while I’m driving home after this message and I die a horrible death

[lapis creek]

i know that the silk that shes using is made of soul but the question was more like whether you could do the skills with normal silk and shes doing it with the soul silk because thats the kind of silk she has

[foggy fractal]

nooooo you're too handomse to die

[lapis creek]

idk how its been in the ss footage so far but in hk her abilities seemed like things youd be able to do with regular silk if you were extremely good at it

i guess things may have changed since then

[raven cove]

ehrm

Even if you felt it wasn’t magic it was definitely not “regular” Silk

[obsidian quail]

so the Weavers also use soul silk like Hornet?

[terse wadi]

Totally not "Regular" silk for only 3 easy payments of 33.99

[vestal swan]

Seems like it

[lapis creek]

obviously not in hindsight

[obsidian quail]

but you don’t need higher being status to do this, that’s just how Hornet can

[vestal swan]

You know I just want to throw this theory out there just so it's there in the extremely unlikely event that it's true, what if hornet isn't PK's kid at all

What about HB???

[terse wadi]

Another soul manipulating HB would have to be her father

[obsidian quail]

isn’t the reason why Hornet can use her special silk because of her constitution

[terse wadi]

Seems like too much of a Deus ex machina

[obsidian quail]

like spider silk plus higher being equals super soul silk

[vestal swan]

That's what we were discussing

And as far as we know she doesn't qualify as a higher being

[lapis creek]

ive been thinking this since the game was released

she says something in the abyss about how their strength comes from similar source

[terse wadi]

Bro x'd me for no reason

[obsidian quail]

i should have said having some higher being constitution

[lapis creek]

what if instead of conceiving her, he built a void construct in the likeness of herrah and taught it how to speak

[obsidian quail]

what i’m asking is if Hornet and the Weavers have the same ability but how they got there is different

or is Weavers silk distinct

[vestal swan]

It seems to be a technique if they can help her relearn it

[gentle aspen]

Aren’t theories supposed to have evidence backing them up

[terse wadi]

Weavers are cool and Hornet's dad is a god, is the consensus ountil otherwise disproven

[vestal swan]

Okay here's my evidence
one she doesn't really look too much like her dad
Two nobody will shut up about how she looks like a weaver
Three it would be really fucking funny

[lapis creek]

it would also explain why white lady calls hornet the gendered child

it's because she's somebody's child and she has a gender

[gentle aspen]

one isn’t true
two isn’t relevant

[terse wadi]

also not full of void and removing its gender

[vestal swan]

You're really going to look at The pale King and hornet who has her mother's head shape and tell me they share any physical similarities

[lapis creek]

which is super relatable if you think about it because we are all somebody's child and most of us have genders

if hornet had a fork for a head would you say herrah might not be her mother

[terse wadi]

I know you're taking tyhe piss but it's her pale shell isn't it

[raven cove]

Hornet doesn’t look like a Weaver they just have the same taste in clothing and she looks a hell of a lot like PK if you ask me

[lapis creek]

wtf i want my piss back

[vestal swan]

Of course not~~, it would be obvious that it's radiance~~

[obsidian quail]

since HK revolved around the mind and the eyes and had Dream realms i wonder if there are gonna be any interesting places u can go through sound

[vestal swan]

She's just as pale as everybody else? And only in one place

There wasn't really a theme about eyes in hollow Knight

[terse wadi]

Being pale coloured and having a pale shell are not the same thing

[vestal swan]

Besides that one idiot

[obsidian quail]

well all the eyes of the dream god possessed were changed

[raven cove]

That specific shade of white is also very rare

[vestal swan]

They are, they're called pale beings because they are pale

[crystal marsh]

i'm sorry what

[obsidian quail]

and i think the bugs in pharloom are possessed through sound right

[vestal swan]

Possibly

[terse wadi]

The only pale beings we know of are HB and you don't hear the term pale thrown around for other bugs

[lapis creek]

trolling in the lore channel is a guilty pleasure for all of us

[gentle aspen]

yes???

[raven cove]

And Hornet is described as pale too which wouldn’t make sense if she were truly as pale as everyone else

[lapis creek]

and we only have 4 more days to do it so may as well get it out now

[gentle aspen]

She shares similarities with vessels

What the fuck are you talking about

[vestal swan]

I'm not trolling I'm throwing in a really unlikely but not impossible scenario into the mix that we will figure out in 5 days

[lapis creek]

she is noticeably paler than everybody else in deepnest

[gentle aspen]

yeah you aren’t trolling you just making shit up

[crystal marsh]

it's impossible because WL LITERALLY SAYS IT

[terse wadi]

Technically Hornet outright saying TK and her are related is proof enough they share at least a parent

[lapis creek]

the others only look pale because they have the segmented mask

[gentle aspen]

yeah bro the character called a pale gift who’s referred to as the result of PK’s dalliance who looks like the PK’s kids who notably has extra powers isn’t PK’s kid

[vestal swan]

White lady says a lot of things

[lapis creek]

sealed siblings

[gentle aspen]

literal fucking cocaine odea

[terse wadi]

Bro just decided to get some rare exoitic copium that leads nowhere

[gentle aspen]

SEALED SIBLINGS
OUR STRENGTH FROM SIMILAR SOURCE
OUR BIRTH CURSED SIBLING

[vestal swan]

It's going to turn out phantom is actually the promised child and hornet is just a weaver kid

[gentle aspen]

SHE DOESNT EVEN LOOK LIKE A WEAVER

!wiki weaver

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Little_Weaver
Not the correct result? Use !wiki page weaver for a direct link.

Hollow Knight Wiki

Little Weaver

Loading page description…

[vestal swan]

I hope we get some really wild plot twists like this man it would be so funny

[lapis creek]

did she lose four of her eyes in a birth defect or something

[gentle aspen]

i fucking hate you wiki bot but this also helps my point

One of these things is NOT LIKE THE OTHER

ONE OF THESE THINGS JUST DOESN’T BELONG

[terse wadi]

I'm just gonna pretend Powdered isn't here until he stops spouting fucking BULLSHIT

[vestal swan]

@sinful nimbus gettem

This is worse than calling deep nest beasts

[gentle aspen]

Quincy Jones ain’t gonna help you

[vestal swan]

Who

[terse wadi]

Can't believe Powdered doesn't know Quinncy Jones (Sounds faimiliar but idk)

[foggy fractal]

hornet head too spikey

not enough eyes as well

[lapis creek]

well yeah the head is from her mother

the eyes and the limbs are the important part

[raven cove]

why does hornet have two eyes if Herrah has six and Weavers have six and why does she have four limbs if Herrah has eight and Weavers have six

[terse wadi]

I'd say Head shape, not head

[lapis creek]

and the shell again if you look at the faces of the deepnest beasts like midwife and the devouts they are dark and covered by claw masks

[terse wadi]

PK

[lapis creek]

yeah of course

we are redundantly explaining why discord moderator is wrong

[raven cove]

Herrah and Weavers are different though

[terse wadi]

They're spider spiders, Hornet is a spider wyrm

[raven cove]

There are different types of spider

[terse wadi]

There are

[gentle aspen]

maybe hornet got bitten by a radioactive weaver

[terse wadi]

Spooderman

[raven cove]

The Weavers, Devouts/Midwife, and Herrah are all anatomically distinct

[lapis creek]

weavers i agree with

[raven cove]

Midwife is also a bit weird truthfully

[terse wadi]

"A bit"

[lapis creek]

i think midwife/herrah/devouts could just be variations on the same thing

although maybe herrah's a different kind of 'common beast' i cant say for sure

[terse wadi]

isn't that all the more reason to say they're similar

[raven cove]

Midwife sure but come on look at Herrah she has a different number of limbs a completely different body shape and, oh, would you look at that no claw mask

Midwife also doesn’t have a claw mask which is why I say she’s weird but she at least resembles them superficially

she also has a different number of eyes and a very different face but I digress

[lapis creek]

dont herrah and the devouts each have 8 limbs

[raven cove]

The Devout have a different number of limbs based on the frame of animation they’re in, but iirc never 8

[raven condor]

14!

[lapis creek]

on the wiki they have 8 in all of them

[raven cove]

it seems to be 14 yes

[lapis creek]

i think it's herrah who may be inconsistent sometimes but i dont remember

[raven cove]

Both are inconsistent, Herrah has eight lying down and six standing up

[raven condor]

Limbs don’t matter. Hornet got her mamas head, her daddy’s body, the papas eyes. Boom

[terse wadi]

Herrah can only open her last 2 eyes lying down

[raven cove]

she actually has her mother’s eyes

[raven condor]

Herra 6 pk 2

[raven cove]

she just inherited the number from her father

[gentle aspen]

pk’s genes must be hella dominant

[raven cove]

the actual appearance of her eyes is much more similar to Herrah

PK’s eyes are almond shaped and… very weird, we have close ups of both Hornet and PK’s eyes and she doesn’t have those ridges

[lapis creek]

ok 8 of the legs on the main body

[gentle aspen]

not in the dream realm iirc

[raven condor]

Vs

[lapis creek]

herrah is different enough that she could be a different species youre right

[pseudo geyser]

all the Dreamers wear the same style of hood/robe. Herrah might look different in actuality, as opposed to what she has on in game.

[raven condor]

Herra be cheatin

[pseudo geyser]

she may have had to put on a uniform of sorts prior to going 💤

[raven cove]

fr the only major trait he doesn’t pass down to his offspring is his head shape which is probably because it’s so distinctive it would be weird if anyone else had it

[lapis creek]

the claws on the face could be obscured by the thing she has on her head but i dont really have any evidence for her being related to the devouts other than her being called a common beast

[gentle aspen]

Do you think he would’ve chosen a vessel if they inherited his headshape

[raven cove]

Devouts aren’t necessarily common beasts also common beast just means she was a commoner and not of noble birth it doesn’t say anything about her species

[raven cove]

No

He’d raise it to become his successor

It would be funny if the horns gradually developed into a crown like pattern as the Vessels matured though

Maybe Hornet ages super slowly or requires an external source to activate her latent power because Wyrm or whatever and once she reaches her final form in SS she’ll end up with something similar

[gentle aspen]

I think she does have some kind of slowed aging

She isn’t that much bigger than a vessel

[raven cove]

Silkwyrm I’m calling it TK inherited PK’s kingdom his sins and his will Hornet will inherit his power

[lapis creek]

yeah i said this a couple pages ago, i just wish everything fit together nicely but perhaps herrah is the only herrah around

[raven cove]

Here’s the thing

[lapis creek]

that we see

[gentle aspen]

did the old king of deepnest like em big

[raven cove]

Neither is PK, if we’re being fr that might be the limit

She is roughly the same size as him

[orchid shard]

Are pale creatures considered beautiful by bug standards in the lore?

[gentle aspen]

We dunno

[raven cove]

Vessels may have grown naturally due to root genetics, they might have not. We have no way to tell

[edgy nebula]

depends on how big the king himself was

[raven cove]

But we do know THK’s growth at the very least was artificial

[terse wadi]

^

I want a juiced up TK ngl

[gentle aspen]

It’d look awkward I think

[raven cove]

So in all seriousness it’s not actually that likely Hornet’s aging is slowed, she might have inherited the Wyrm’s longevity but that’s about all we can say

[terse wadi]

Probably, but also funny

[gentle aspen]

THK was designed with their aged up design in mind

[orchid shard]

But why did broken vessel was a lil bigger than the other failed vessels?

[terse wadi]

It'd really just be Ctrl C ctrl V but with TK's head

[gentle aspen]

Natural variation

[orchid shard]

Or were they just born a bit bigger than usual?

[raven cove]

Or it was killed at a different stage of development, there are actually other Vessels in the Abyss that are the same size as BV

[pine flax]

who's gonna grab the mushspore chart

[edgy nebula]

OH, this is ss-lore, i thought this was hk lore

[raven cove]

Yeah sorry. To get back on topic I don’t think Hornet’s aging is actually slowed or whatever

[orchid shard]

I wonder why the bugs in pharloom kidnapped hornet, is it because of her connections to the spiders or the pale king?

[raven cove]

As for PK’s preference for larger bugs I feel it merits mentioning WL was much smaller in the past PK was much larger in the past and he wasn’t interested in Herrah that way but if WL could change her size at will that would potentially make things interesting…

[terse wadi]

soul silk probably dunnno how they know though

Since they captured the weavers

[raven cove]

I think her Wyrm heritage is definitely relevant

[orchid shard]

She's basically half divine

[gentle aspen]

Weavers came back to Pharloom and probably blabbed

[edgy nebula]

to my knowledge we really have no idea

[orchid shard]

They even prepared a seal for her

[raven cove]

They wouldn’t go through all that effort if it literally didn’t matter, Hallownest is very far away from Pharloom and they already had plenty of silk producers

[gentle aspen]

Honestly I have a crack theory that she was captured because of her divine origins to marry the current leader of Pharloom to give credence to their bullshit or whatever

[orchid shard]

Maybe

[gentle aspen]

my evidence is jackshit it came to me during a feverish dream

[raven cove]

Lace also implies Hornet is somehow vital to the Citadel’s plans and attempts to kill her in order to avoid them getting her

Kind of like what Hornet does in HK, heh

[elfin shard]

yall what do you tjink bout this

[orchid shard]

I really hope silksong offers more lore about the spiders
Since most of them were not quite right in the head by infection

Or left

[raven cove]

Wait I think I’ve seen that before

[edgy nebula]

evil mask (evil), i dont know what itd do aside from letting you take an extra hit or two before dying

[gentle aspen]

it’s a crest

[edgy nebula]

it was present in an older trailer

[raven cove]

no not that the crest

[edgy nebula]

ah

[raven cove]

I’ve seen it somewhere in HK before

WAIT

THE MASK ON THE RIGHT

isn’t it kind of the same shape

[edgy nebula]

theyre pretty different

[raven cove]

Well maybe I misremembered

[edgy nebula]

ss’s mask has shorter fangs and no protrusion on the bottom

[raven cove]

In my head they were more similar

I guess that means no Slysong

[lapis creek]

my mind went to galien but thats just because of the cracks his face doesnt actually look like that

[orchid shard]

Do you think deepnest king also gets more lore in silksong?

Herrah husband?

[elfin shard]

also the shopkeeper guy has no legs it kinda looks like theyre just a cloth and a mask over a robot tentacle hand

[orchid shard]

Since the deepnest king was divine if I remember correctly?
But herrah was not?

[lapis creek]

dont know about divine but he was of the honoured caste whatever that means

[crystal marsh]

potentially

[flat hearth]

4.5 days brothers

[terse wadi]

Royal or noble

Noble probably because he was already a king so that wouldn't make sense

Outside of that idk

Also 4 days till Silktempber 4th my time

Unrelated but I just annhiliated a mario party game

7 star final 9 star total

Anyways, Sharpe is void

[vivid kernel]

Do we know why hornet is in the cage on the beginning of the game?

[terse wadi]

She's been sealed and kidnapped

[vivid kernel]

From who and why?

[terse wadi]

Unclear, but there are theories

[vivid kernel]

Do we not know who those bugs are?

[terse wadi]

Presumably the big wigs of Pharloom

[vivid kernel]

In HK's lore, does hornet have any special power that higher beings might want her, or kidnap her?

[terse wadi]

Lace is seen conducting some seal breaker bugs in the demo I think but that's only what ferees hornet dunno if it's her who kidnapped hornet or if her intention was even to free her

[terse wadi]

Pharloom bigwigs have weavers imprisoned and what they have in common with hornet is the ability to infuse silk with soul

[vivid kernel]

So silk?

[keen temple]

Song

[terse wadi]

Magic silk to be specific

Well, soul infused silk

[vivid kernel]

That sounds OP on HK's universe

[terse wadi]

Depends

[vivid kernel]

Can she also do the regular souls things that TK can do?

[terse wadi]

No

[vivid kernel]

So she's nerfed but got compensations

[terse wadi]

I wouldn't say Nerfed

TK and vessels just have a very large capacity for soul without much reprocussion

TK is also basically a god at the end of HK

What hornet does is pretty op compared to the average pbug

[quartz salmon]

she has the weaver's silk powers and she is half god

[vivid kernel]

Half G?

[terse wadi]

Her mom Herrah is just a normal bug, but PK is a HB

[vivid kernel]

Wait pale king is a G?

[terse wadi]

You were unaware?

[vivid kernel]

I just thought PK is a higher being

A bug that has magics and is OP

[terse wadi]

HB's are gods

[vivid kernel]

Ohhhh

[quartz salmon]

yeah basically a god in hollow knight, the pale king, the radiance, Unn, the white lady

[terse wadi]

But yeah, magic or other godlike abilities and powers

[vivid kernel]

Didn't PK and white lady have a child?

[spark valve]

several

[terse wadi]

You forgor Nightmare heart and shadelord

[vivid kernel]

Who are they?

[spark valve]

the vessels

[terse wadi]

80 trillion

[quartz salmon]

they had lots of them

the hollow knight
and all the vessels including the main character

[olive umbra]

bajillions

[quartz salmon]

right

[vivid kernel]

Wait the vessels that are in the dark area are PKs and white lady's?

[quartz salmon]

yup

infused with void by being in the abyss

[vivid kernel]

Ohhh I thought PK just spawns them with his magic

[terse wadi]

That's hallownest bugs

Not his own prodigney

[quartz salmon]

i dont blame you for thinking that since he has a workshop and all

[vivid kernel]

Damn no wonder white lady is sealed

[terse wadi]

She saled herself

[vivid kernel]

Ya

[terse wadi]

*sealed

Can we get PK a #1 dad mug for yeeting his children into the abyss by the millions

[quartz salmon]

sealed herself so noone could be attracted to her godhood anymore if i remember correctly

[vivid kernel]

Is there any info at all as to why TK made it out of that dark area?

[terse wadi]

To stop having children

[vivid kernel]

And do the other vessels have wills?

[terse wadi]

There's a gap that leads into deepnest, evidenced by vessel corpses in Nosks lair

[vivid kernel]

I'm basically a noobie in HK's lore

[terse wadi]

They don't they're not supposed to anyway

[vivid kernel]

So why does TK have will?

[terse wadi]

it technically doesn't until late game

[quartz salmon]

well since theyre all failed i guess the implication is that they do, deep down

[terse wadi]

It's just come back because the seal is weakening

No will to break no mind to think, no voice to cry suffering, no cost too great ~PK

Vessel blueprints

[quartz salmon]

thats just what he thinks

[blissful harbor]

how does thst work? how would it suddenly gain a will

[quartz salmon]

it develops one by interacting with the world

[terse wadi]

^

[vivid kernel]

If TK goes and fights THK, doesn't it have a will from the beginning?

[terse wadi]

A vessel even if strong enough likely wouldn't kill radiance, they're hard coded to seal her and the infection

[lost nacelle]

might not be a will of itself, but the will of the void

[gentle aspen]

based on what

[blissful harbor]

thst wouldn’t be a will developing, that would be a personality
i agree TK has a will, but it’s will is present from the start it doesn’t develop a will during the course of the game

[terse wadi]

TK chose to slay Radiance (in 3 endings at least)

[gentle aspen]

it doesn’t gain a will it always had one

[blissful harbor]

snail

[olive umbra]

the hollow knight def did a lil

[vivid kernel]

But TK is void?

[terse wadi]

THK had a thought instilled

[olive umbra]

is a thought not a will?

[terse wadi]

The perfect "Hollow Knight" must not think, must not speak and not have a will

If it has any of the 3, it's screwed

[lapis creek]

well

[olive umbra]

i thought that was one of the reasons it failed to begin with

[terse wadi]

One of them certainly

Perhaps the idea was futile to begin with becaue of the nature of life

[olive umbra]

basically the pk was doomed from the start

[lapis creek]

if this were true the training of pv and its use of worldsense would make no sense in context

[lost nacelle]

yes, there's a difference i think between having an individual will (becoming your own self, like hornet, the hollow knight) and whatever the will of the void is. no individuality for the radiance to feed itself into

[vivid kernel]

Idk why, but I LOVE the idea of hollow creature. Like TK

[terse wadi]

when did we say PK was smart

[quartz salmon]

this is the exact scene where it gains that idea, whatever it is, a slither of character

[lapis creek]

he doesnt have to be that smart but this is just nonsensical

[olive umbra]

honestly I think the hollow knight gained a will right then and there because to even think must not think, must not speak and not have a will you kinda have to have one

[lapis creek]

it's more likely for him to be speaking somewhat figuratively than for him to be this stupid

[terse wadi]

Ngl it feels like from the start since THK looks back at TK but that might be a dream sequence of VH

[lost nacelle]

yeah, breaks out of the hive minded emptiness of the void, starts becoming its own thing rather than being an empty doll carrying out some purpose

[terse wadi]

So is his palace being full of buzzsaws, what's your point

[lapis creek]

his palace being full of buzzsaws protects him

and the kingsoul as an added bonus

and memories that he wants to keep hidden away from invaders

[olive umbra]

honestly I refuse to think the pk died

[lapis creek]

the body certainly helps

[terse wadi]

Yeah, I kinda think he changed forms again

[lost nacelle]

the buzzsaws helps with the "no mind to think" thing because all you can hear in your head is the saws. always

[quartz salmon]

well you can suspend your disbelief because its a magic bug that contains only pure void or you can think that something was """wrong""" from the start it doesnt really matter

[terse wadi]

His wyrm corpse is there to see too

[lapis creek]

and the statement by the godseekers that theres nothing left

[olive umbra]

think he went into the dream world?

[terse wadi]

He already was in the dreamworld

[quartz salmon]

his corpse yeah

[terse wadi]

Can't that just mean he's no longer in hallownest

[olive umbra]

either way thk had a will at some point in it's life and thats why it failed

[olive umbra]

ohh true guess he's somewhere else

[lapis creek]

they followed his aura or whatever to reach the kingdom

[terse wadi]

Yeah, but we have NO idea how long she was in that coffin

[olive umbra]

it's possible he left

[quartz salmon]

yeah but thats like just classic otherworldly eldritch stuff when gods die their influence remains for eons

[terse wadi]

Godseeker is basically in stasis till we open her coffin

She could've come here when PK was here but was gone by the time we freed her

[lapis creek]

yeah but i mean if he was out there somewhere couldnt she pick it up

[terse wadi]

Not saying it's the truth, just saying it's a possibility

[olive umbra]

distance could be a factor

it's possible after he left his only trace was hallownest

[blissful harbor]

they say it was his afterglow after he already died thst drew them in

[lapis creek]

that is also true thank you senris i forgot about that

[blissful harbor]

Even long departed, We feel the afterglow of the God-power that sat this throne... It lays heavy upon this kingdom. That lingering power alone was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest. How bright it must have been to mortal bug stood before it.

[terse wadi]

maybe, but she's probably too sdistrated by the 40 something "Gods"

idk, still seems vague enough that he'll come back cheap soap opera style

[lapis creek]

it would certainly make hollow knight a cheap soap opera im glad we agree on that

[olive umbra]

as long as it isn't revealed he created pharloom or some shit ill be happy

[terse wadi]

I mean, PK is the only HB wek now of to "die" and take on a nother form, not definitive but not out of the question

Nah, I don't think they;'d do that probs some other HB

[olive umbra]

well i forgot the character but didn't they say it's a wyrms nature to change forms or whatever

[lapis creek]

not like 10 times

[terse wadi]

Bardoon?

[terse wadi]

Hey, this would only be the thriced time

[olive umbra]

i mean we know he's only done this once

[lapis creek]

he said that the wyrm's so-called death was more like transformation

[lethal burrow]

what's the topic of discussion?

[olive umbra]

is the pk dead

[terse wadi]

I know people say "I won't believe it till I see a corpse" but like with PK even that isn't proof

[olive umbra]

yeah he likely changed forms again unless wyrms could just die for good if they get depressed or something

[lethal burrow]

Isn't it interesting how he's called the pail king. and yet it is his children who are the containers

[terse wadi]

I want to make it clear, I don't necessarily think he's alive, he just could be

We'll never know because they won't explore this further but it's a fun thought experiement

[lethal burrow]

he turned into a teeny weenie Eenie tiny man

[terse wadi]

I should ask Wilbo or Ari when they inevitably come to mingle on launch day if PK is dead dead

[obsidian quail]

is that Void = Regret thing valid at all

[terse wadi]

They'd probably respond "idk" like they usually do

[obsidian quail]

or pure fan fiction

[quartz salmon]

their answer probably : "silsong"

[lapis creek]

if it is then it either comes from only some beings or it is too small or too fast to be observed anywhere in the actual game

[lethal burrow]

maybe thematically

[terse wadi]

That's probably the next best answer after "idk" , "probably"

[obsidian quail]

what do u mean

[lethal burrow]

I found something interesting an anagram of silksong is snogilsk

[terse wadi]

Sounds derogatory

Can't wait for the racist old man to call me a "snoglisk"

[lapis creek]

i mean that there are civilizations in hallownest that don't really mention their regrets manifesting as void

[lethal burrow]

Sounds like sci-fi racism

[olive umbra]

honestly my guess is void predates everything

[obsidian quail]

didn’t one of the bugs or descriptions mention void as regret

[lapis creek]

so obviously it's not really an important part of their lives

[terse wadi]

[obsidian quail]

the only one we know of that is tied to void is Ancient and they seem to talk about lingering wills

[lapis creek]

jiji talks vaguely about regrets, never actually mentions void but she refers to the shade as the knight's regret

[terse wadi]

Isn't the regret thing relating to Collector and it beinf fused with that one guy idr

[lapis creek]

we don't know how a regular bug's regret would manifest

[terse wadi]

Yuh

[obsidian quail]

good point

also why would it pool down there

[lapis creek]

hunter also says this which is pretty interesting

but it's not evident that he's talking about a physical substance

it could just be that everyone makes their mark in a unique way

idk how this would threaten the kingdom but if all regrets are made out of void then we've got bigger problems

[olive umbra]

thats why I think void just might predate all that

[lethal burrow]

not lifeblood tho

[lapis creek]

i do think silksong could go in this direction especially given the inclusion of the delicate flowers, but overall maybe it's not likely

i think it is just an underdeveloped thing in hollow knight

[quartz salmon]

he must be referring to the fact that there are billions of shades trapped in the abyss, but like, in a meta sense, not that he actually knows that

[terse wadi]

Maybe if the abyss expansion was n't cut

[obsidian quail]

this was talking about a shade though

[obsidian quail]

it could be metaphorically for non vessels but real for vessels

[lapis creek]

there are some entries where it's clear that hunter is not talking about the specific thing, and the knight (?) has matched random musings from him in places where they make sense

for example it doesn't make sense that he would know what a shade or a sibling is

or the radiance

[terse wadi]

The hunter secretly watching you hunt everything

[lapis creek]

so he just makes general statements that happen to be tangentially related

[terse wadi]

Doesn't he tell you to hunt these things and jot them down in his journal for him to commment on

Or maybe he's super psychic idk

[stark marlin]

i mean some entries just sound like folk lore or like some wierd poem like nkg

[terse wadi]

Perhaps, 90% of it is just if it taskes good though

*tastes

[stark marlin]

i mean its kinda wierd that u have to kill stuff to decipher the hunters notes

[lapis creek]

he says you are deciphering his notes

Then take it! My journal. It will aid you. At first the text may seem difficult to discern, but a learned hunter will come to understand its words.

Keep hunting down creatures until you have deciphered all of my notes! Only then will I recognise you as my fellow Hunter and you shall receive your reward.

he also implies the knight is adding something to the journal

Ah ha! Your journal grows fat and full.

I think what makes the most sense is that the top line is stuff the knight writes and the bottom line is stuff that was already there

[terse wadi]

Yeah, the tqacks

[stark marlin]

what if the journal itself is ike unlocking itself as u defeat things

[lapis creek]

and radiance/hollow knight's entries just don't exist diegetically

[terse wadi]

*tracks

[terse wadi]

I prefer the headcanon that hunter is omnicient

[lapis creek]

my personal headcanon is that the hunter tried to draw things to accompany his notes but his fingers are too large to hold a writing implement so it's completely undiscernable

[stark marlin]

what if the journal is filling itself out as u defeat things

[terse wadi]

That'd be funny

[lapis creek]

he says when he gives it to you that the text is there and it just doesn't make sense

[terse wadi]

Maigc Journel is not out of the question ubut not much to substantiate it

[stark marlin]

so why can u understand it after u defeat things

[lapis creek]

because as you kill things you learn more about them

[terse wadi]

Because you're a more experienced hunter

[stark marlin]

shouldnt that mean that u s=just know the stuff not that u can suddenly read what u know

[terse wadi]

Basically, it's hunter lingo only a hunter wiould understand

[lapis creek]

you don't initially have context for the hunter's notes

[flat hearth]

Is the hunter the most powerful being in the universe?

[lapis creek]

you can read the words you just don't know what they are talking about

[stark marlin]

oh so like the knight is genuinely just sitting there dechipering the notes

[lapis creek]

yes

[terse wadi]

No, it's just funny to me if he's all-knowing

[flat hearth]

He seems low key skrong, even tho we never find out

[stark marlin]

yeah so the hunter knows everything and writes poetry

perfect husband material

[lapis creek]

it's pretty clear here that hunter doesn't know what the radiance is and he's just thinking about the infection

[flat hearth]

Also got 6 eyes, so that's a plus

He has a weird body. Almost like a vessel or a void being, but not quite

[stark marlin]

what if the hunter knows everything but was only born after the radiance was forgotten

wait nvrmind

thats dumb\

[flat hearth]

Nah I think you were onto something there

[terse wadi]

Can't be dumber than "hornet is void"

[quartz salmon]

silksong releases

suddenlt hollow knight gets a new patch

the description of hornet on the journal has changed
it just says "shes void silksong"

[obsidian quail]

Voidsilk

[edgy nebula]

in 4 days. it shall be revealed that sharpe is not void

and every sharpe void believer will be erased from time

[stark marlin]

i think u underestimate our stupidity

[terse wadi]

Eh, I'm fine eihter way

Sharpe is actually grape juice

[midnight reef]

I'd be a bit sad if Sharpe was void

I dont like the idea that everyone cool is made out've void

Just let some bugs be kinda weird

[terse wadi]

I guess it all depends on whether or not the backer whanted him to be void or not

I want him to be voiced by the same person who did Tiso though

[edgy stone]

Im really excited to see tiso twin brother in silksong

Tisu

[real crater]

I don't think he had a twin

[terse wadi]

I prefer his sister Tisa

[real crater]

Didn't have a sister had a half brother name tisot

[terse wadi]

I think you're thinking of his Cousin TIsy

[real crater]

Nah but his mother mama tisso is quite cool

[terse wadi]

Tissim his Father was pretty cool guy, had a good jolf game

Golf*

[real crater]

Oh I thought he made good rice

[terse wadi]

So he does

[real crater]

Good jollof rice??