sk-lore

[high violet]

We already got fleas tho

Which are this games grubs

[sage flame]

The fleas don't look as cute as the grubs

[high violet]

I agree

They look goofy tho so I still like them

They all look like goofballs

[blissful harbor]

i must say dark mode really makes her look like hornet lmao

[viscid ridge]

Ill be stealing that dont mind me

[cunning dirge]

we got fleas already

im guessing nuu wil be this game's zote

[wintry flame]

hello is this the spoiler disc

[real crater]

All spoilers are allowed yes

[wintry flame]

looks like it

yeahhhh

i'm seeing a lot of old ss disc regulars here already

[quartz salmon]

i disagree

[wintry flame]

i disagree

[quartz salmon]

Nuu will be this games Bretta, they both seem to have a thing for the main character, and write fan fiction

[real crater]

I agree with both of u

[wintry flame]

i think lost judge will be the game's big "midgame bossfight" that kicks off the lategame

like hornet 2

[river otter]

Did hornet go to pharloom willingly or was she kidnapped? We can see her fighting them in the trailer.
If possible please don't spoil the demo for me

[cunning dirge]

hello

[wintry flame]

kidnapped

[river otter]

Fire

[cunning dirge]

oh this is ss-lore i thought this was normal ss-disscussion

[wintry flame]

if you don't want spoilers i recommend you get out of the channel immediately and hide it

[river otter]

Sure

[wintry flame]

this is thee silksong spoiler chat

[cunning dirge]

ss discussion also isn't spoilered i don't think

[wintry flame]

ss disc is too busy with people picking fleas off each other and eating them to really be spoiling the game

[cunning dirge]

[wintry flame]

they are having prequel v sequel discussion

[cunning dirge]

they have run out jokes

they keep doing the sebtemeber 4th 2027 joke

[wintry flame]

only bad thing here is that memes and jokes and fun and off topic discussion are superbanned

old ss disc cultural erasure

[cunning dirge]

this is ss lore not ss discussion

[wintry flame]

yes

[sonic dragon]

The fleas?

[frank mesa]

do we know what are the red warts growing on the robot?

[real crater]

Probably just magma

And like rapidly cooled lava

[stark marlin]

maybe rust

[wintry flame]

same texture as the platform she's standing on it's probably just volcanic stuff that got stuck on it

[frank mesa]

I was wondering why it was red. But probably it's from the red-yellow glow from the lava beneath

[stark marlin]

phantom is void

[quartz salmon]

phantom is another word for ghost

which is what hornet calls the vessels

might be related, in a meta sense

[wintry flame]

don't think too hard about it

every phantom posty i see is like "THEY'RE VOID THEY ARE A HORNET CLONE THEY ARE A VESSEL" and like we know abolutely nothing

all we know is that they have been strangely absent form every single form of promotional material, they may have ties to void and are especially significant

[stark marlin]

i think hornet just calls people things based on their appearance so white faced people with dark bodies are ghostlike

[real crater]

No phantom is just a person tasked with eradacting something

[wintry flame]

we also have a little character bio which says next to nothing

[stark marlin]

phantom is also something people call assasins or people who work in the shadows

maybe phantom is like a codename or what people call them

maybe she was a normal bug who used void to increase their efficiency when eradicating the thing

[wintry flame]

don't go crazy over the name

it's probably something they called themselves to aurafarm

[stark marlin]

maybe but team cherry does like to cake lore behind random things

[wintry flame]

ehhhh i feel like the name might be tied at most to the fact they they seem tobe partially void

[real crater]

PHANTOM IS NOT VOID

[wintry flame]

come on dude

[stark marlin]

and phantom the name combined with their shadowy appearance could be related to what they dude

[wintry flame]

i feel like it's a very educated guess to make

like "sharpe is void" but a bit more speculative

[real crater]

Nope not one shred of evidence I don't want another hornet is void

[wintry flame]

i feel like this time it's very different

[real crater]

Sureeeee

[stark marlin]

ok hornet is not void has been pretty much confirmed but we know next to nothing about this character and they do look more voidlike so maybe there is some connection

not saying that they are made of void but some connection is possible

[real crater]

The whole debate is stupid and unproductive we should get back to it after 2 weeks when we have 100% skong

[wintry flame]

mainly because we don't know jack about phantom

[stark marlin]

the point of this channel existing before the release of ss is to speculate with little explanation

what if phantom has some connection with sharpe

cause they both have void like parts and have a name based on their appearance

[wintry flame]

nah

i feel like there is a LOT to be said with substantial evidence

trobbio's room got a CRAZY overhaul

[stark marlin]

not nearly as much evidence than when the game will be released

[wintry flame]

no shit!

[quartz salmon]

the colour has become so much more beautiful in the final version of the game

[wintry flame]

TRUEE

[quartz salmon]

a shame that the backgrounds got a little blurred but honestly it works

makes everything look vast

[stark marlin]

the blur might be to make it more mysterious or just for game performance

it is cool tho

[pine garnet]

do we know if silksong is set before or after hollow knight?

[opal beacon]

We dont

TC wanted it to be a secret before the game releases

[hazy hemlock]

it’ll probably help a lot with readability plus it doesn’t seem to be super blurred when the background is actually close to hornet

the game still looks really beautiful especially now that they’ve tweaked the colours

[quartz salmon]

Well yeah indoors it's still the same

[heady wind]

where do you guys think this boss is ? (I know, I just wanna see how far knowledge has spread)

[cursive sinew]

on the topic of bosses what do yall have for big bad theories?

Because I recently came up with the final boss being some sort of weaver higher being that controls pharloom through puppet strings

[winged hollow]

That’s a possibility; I feel like with all the variables (Pharloom’s own citadel caste, weavers, now even void) it complicates things considerably

[spark valve]

Pretty sure it’s a different character even if it’s strange they made such similar head designs

[real crater]

It's probably her husband son or brother

[high violet]

yeh

[high violet]

prolly similar species if its a different character

[spark valve]

Potentially but they have pretty different body shapes

Idk the design feels weird whether it’s the same species or not

[teal sinew]

Omg ss lore chat

[real crater]

Correct

[teal sinew]

I wonder if hornet will talk or get the silent protagonist treatment

i want a dedicated button that makes random hornet noises

[quartz salmon]

she does talk!

[teal sinew]

Really? Glad to hear that

[real crater]

Ss will also have a parry

[quartz salmon]

you can see in the demo from 2019 footage when shes talking the textbox has a unique symbol (which is just hornet's head)

and she makes random hornet noises all the time

[teal sinew]

Please let us say git gud

[viscid ridge]

She does have conversations with people, we see her talk in the demo. And i dont know if it counts but she has a taunt button where she makes noises

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but it looks like the same one from the first game, not like in most games where the parry is a separate button (which i do like more but dont think we'll get)

[real crater]

@viscid ridge this is the parry in ss

[hallow cliff]

I mean, Trobbio's also kind of an NPC, right? Maybe we just meet him two or three times in different rooms?

[spark valve]

it's probably the same room just updated, different rooms it would be odd to still share the most significant background element like that

[viscid ridge]

Oh yeah damn, if we get that parry then id be happy 😁

[real crater]

That's the parry

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, i said im happy

[real crater]

U said if but that's been known for 6 years that's the parry people talk about

[balmy reef]

Damn y’all convinced me it was a redesign

I was saying different character from the start

[viscid ridge]

I have no basis for this, but i think this is maybe an area similar to howling cliffs, because it seems to me that this area is on the surface. We can even see the giant bug shells like we saw in hollow knights surface.

[viscid ridge]

My main reason for saying that is because i 1. Completely forgot about that part of the trailer and 2. In the demo there wasnt a dedicated button for parrying, which i thought it would have similar to blasphemous.
But i think maybe its a skill we learn, cause deflecting all damage in a hollow knight game is very op.

[gilded beacon]

To be fair, there's giant bug shells everywhere in Pharloom

[cursive sinew]

Didnt we never get to see the surface in HK and isnt the entire fucking terrain everywhere made of giant bug shells

[high violet]

moss still thinks its a redesign but maybe they didnt bother to redraw the character art again since it wont an asset thats directly encountered in game but

i feel like TC are way too much of perfectionists to do that

[spark valve]

that's uh certainly a stance on it

if that was the case they could just not put the art in the press kit

[high violet]

thats a good point yeah

i think its a different character

[real crater]

Also there could be like a tribe of hunters that have a like a mini arc

[spark valve]

the differences between them and huntress make me skeptical that they're even related but ig tc has taken liberties within a single species before (even if this is more substantial imo than the difference between mantes)

[high violet]

yeah theyre quite different

i wonder if theres just multiple hunters or something like that

different species but similar masks, idk

[spark valve]

it's very weird

[high violet]

i think its just something we're lacking context for rn

[spark valve]

it's hard to imagine they aren't meant to be evocative of each other but it's also hard to imagine they're supposed to be that related

[spark valve]

yeah probably

[high violet]

unfortunately the new uploaded trailers dont have clip metadata, they've learnt from the previous incident

so no shortcuts there

[real crater]

They don't look that different for a video game that's like family basically

[spark valve]

they have different numbers of legs that's pretty strange for being the same species

[runic musk]

I'm stupid what happened?

[high violet]

well we're talking about the huntress looking character

[real crater]

They can vary

[spark valve]

also the only thing they really have in common is the horn positions

[real crater]

The new huntress esque character in the ps trailer

[runic musk]

I more so meant what previous incident

[real crater]

Also the entire vibe basically remember the bugs aren't really based on the bugs u see irl

[high violet]

and i was talking about how there might have been a shortcut about finding out whether they were related to the huntress using the clip metadata because one of the previously uploaded Silksong trailers in the press kit had WAY TOO MUCH metadata including the names of all the clips in the reveal trailer, but the newly uploaded ones are all stripped of metadata

[spark valve]

I'm not comparing them to anything irl I'm comparing them to each other

[real crater]

Does that indicate usage of ai mayhaps perhaps perchance

[high violet]

so i was saying they had learnt lol

[high violet]

??

[real crater]

I think based on our available knowledge this is a moot debate

[real crater]

Just a shitpost

[high violet]

ai and metadata stripping aren't related in any way or form

ah ok

[spark valve]

there's not going to be anything decisive but imo it's reasonable to point out that the designs differ in a lot of significant ways that call into question whether they're actually connected

[high violet]

my messages are too slow in slowmode it makes my tone sound more stern than in reality lmao

[spark valve]

plus there's a week to kill

[real crater]

I think the use of perchance mayhaps and perhaps together would have indicated a homorous tone

[high violet]

i am autism

[sinful nimbus]

Its just a bretta antennae situation 🥱

[real crater]

Fair enough mb

[high violet]

lmao nah its fine just jesting (not about the autism i do acutally have autism)

[blissful harbor]

this is just one of her kids
they grow up so fast

[spark valve]

possible if you stipulate some wild sexual dimorphism or smth

[blissful harbor]

maybe their dad has some extra limbs and it all evens out

[spark valve]

something something dominant wyrm phenotype

[high violet]

lmao yeah the males in the species have extra legs and completely different bodies

[blissful harbor]

sexual dimorphism go crazy

[real crater]

I know this as I have a PhD in silksong bug anatomy

[sinful nimbus]

Garpedes have extra legs 🤓

[real crater]

Also many anthropods have different limbs for different genders

[high violet]

honestly not a bad point

[blissful harbor]

anyways yea, the male and female of a species looking different is completely reasonable lmao

[spark valve]

it's possible sure

[real crater]

That's the truth wdym a fair point

[high violet]

https://tenor.com/view/azumanga-azumanga-daioh-truth-true-truth-nuke-gif-10106897200734009049

maybe thats a more appropriate scale reaction then

[real crater]

Tf is that gif I love it

[midnight reef]

damn, tragic

I was thinking of going to look, but hey, we know the funny cold spore area's name now

least internally, its "peak"

but thats like us learning the internal name of Kingdoms Edge before Hollow Knight releases

Which is uh... also deepnest

[heady wind]

the parry is probably a silk ability (costs 4 silk notches like the others we've seen+doesn't have an assigned button on controller)

[midnight reef]

The parry is a silk ability

[heady wind]

like these guys

[midnight reef]

we've seen it used since april 2nd, I think in the Switch 2 direct

[high violet]

spiderman

[real crater]

It is one wdym probably we knew about it for a while

[midnight reef]

It was also seen in the 2022 Xbox trailer, but at that time we didnt have the spells showing on the HUD

[heady wind]

The information never reached me ?

[high violet]

damn you really love objective truth i have noticed from the past 10 minutes LMAO

[blissful harbor]

we got gossamer storm, silk spear, silk dash, the big upward grapple
and idk what that other one is

[midnight reef]

But Im pretty sure that the first is the parry, second is the sharp-shadow but silk, 3rd I dont know, 4th is gossamer storm, 5th is Silkspear

[blissful harbor]

truly tragic gossamer storm isn’t gonna be called gossamer storm ingame 💔

[midnight reef]

Hey, non zero chance that it will be

probably will be like Silk Storm or something
But it will live on as Gossamer Storm

[flat hearth]

Guys SS in 1 week can you believe it? We'll have actual lore to dump here

[blissful harbor]

it’s gonna get a dumb like like silk storm or thread orb or something

[heady wind]

I just checked we never see the parry with that symbol ?

[real crater]

No we are dumping lore everyday feel free to come dump lore rn even

[flat hearth]

Oh heck ya thanks!

[midnight reef]

The symbols only got added at the April 2nd Nintendo Direct

[heady wind]

you say "we've know that for a while" and yet you show me no proof

[real crater]

Just no hornet is void pls

[heady wind]

what ?

[midnight reef]

they were there- as seen with Silkspears, but they werent shown on the hud

[real crater]

It was in the fucking announcement trailer also I have no fucking duty to give u proof

[flat hearth]

I mean, seems reasonable enough. She's not

[heady wind]

the sizzle reel has gossamer storm in the only combat section ?

[heady wind]

what I say is 1- don't insult me for being reasonable in questioning 2- how the hell are you sure that's factual ? we've only seen silk abilities THIS YEAR, and even then it could be something else because we've never seen it used in recent times

[midnight reef]

no

[heady wind]

oh I understand your reasoning

[blissful harbor]

we’ve seen silk abilities since the first trailer
they’ve just only recently gotten an icon on the hud

[midnight reef]

Silk abilities have been in the game since day one, even the e3 demo had them in Silkspear

[heady wind]

what do you mean no ?

[midnight reef]

that and binding is a silk ability

[heady wind]

I never said they didn't exist

[heady wind]

not in the sense I'm telling

I'm talking about the WHITE ICONS

[flat hearth]

Guys guys cmon, I think we can all agree there will be silk in the game

[blissful harbor]

wrong, tk came in at the last second and now it’s all soul

[vestal swan]

Y'all cannot be getting heated over the game that's not out, y'all can't go confirm anything calm down

[flat hearth]

1 week

[heady wind]

so basically we have no proof (other than the 4 silk notch cost and the fact that it's not a specific key) that the pary is a silk ability ?

well I mean the cost gives it away

[blissful harbor]

if it costs silk….

[vestal swan]

It's obviously a charm

[real crater]

If it's flows like water fellas is it water

[spark valve]

Tbf grapple also costs silk and isn’t an equippable skill apparently

[heady wind]

I understand why people don't wanna talk here

[real crater]

Don't u get silk back when u grapple or is that separate mechanic

[flat hearth]

How many charms do we think there will be guys? I bet there will be a charm that makes you dash faster

[blissful harbor]

grapple refunds silk so it’s pretty different imo

[spark valve]

Sure I’m just saying the ‘it costs silk’ reasoning isn’t necessarily the end of it

[real crater]

Parry is also not a part of hornets regular movesets as seen in demo

[flat hearth]

Is there a parry mechanic in the game?

[midnight reef]

Nor was the graple, though

[runic musk]

Yes

[heady wind]

when u hit smth but not on walls

[spark valve]

I mean that doesn't necessarily mean anything if it's unlocked later

[flat hearth]

Woah

[vestal swan]

It could be learned like a nail art

[spark valve]

the demo doesn't deconfirm the possibility that it has its own button and you just don't start with it

[runic musk]

Similar to HK it seems you can still clash with enemy blades to parry them

[blissful harbor]

like in HK sword clashes, yes

[real crater]

Unlocking parrying later seems kinda bad in a game

[flat hearth]

Ohhhh right

[high violet]

i feel like its reasonable to not assume that everyone here knows all footage there is known to Silksong and just have fun discussions n speculations about stuff

[midnight reef]

I guess thats a fair point, I assumed that the parry was a spell

[spark valve]

not really? it's a metroidvania you unlock combat abilities

[real crater]

Fair enough i guess

[runic musk]

I dont mind if the parry is an unlockable so long its not like late game or some shit lmao

[midnight reef]

The grapple is probably an unlockable movement skill

[runic musk]

Give me time to have fun with it when theres still a good amount of bosses left

[high violet]

i had no idea how to use parry in HK lol

[vestal swan]

Early game optional boss that's really fucking hard then you get parry

[high violet]

well i did but i never used it and sucked so badly at using it

[vestal swan]

You don't really use parry in hollow Knight you either time you're attacks perfectly and you don't get hit while swinging at them or you hit their body and actually do damage

[blissful harbor]

it’s ok no one does it just happens sometimes/j

[midnight reef]

you cant use it intentionally lol

[real crater]

U can it's hard but u can

[sinful nimbus]

silksong shouldn't have you unlock parryslop at any point

[runic musk]

Certain attacks (primarily Nail swings) can be parried if you slash their own slash at the right time.

[high violet]

i think you can you just need to have skill solution right?

[midnight reef]

just means you get hit a bit later 99% of the time

[spark valve]

tbf parry in hk is not something that is a core mechanic or even something you're supposed to engage with intentionally

[runic musk]

PV wants to say otherwise lo

[real crater]

It's more a fun mechanic u can discover and be like wow

[vestal swan]

There's not really a reason to parry in hollow Knight because it means no damage for you or the enemy it's just a negation and it gives neither of you extra time to deal damage

It's like how thorns activate and stops you from moving immediately after taking damage

Technically an iframe but useless

[runic musk]

Am I able to post a HK clip here to showcase the parry or nah

Its not even on a boss just a random CoT enemy

[midnight reef]

we all know it exists

[vestal swan]

I don't see why not it's the topic, but do we need it

[spark valve]

I think everyone understands what it is

[midnight reef]

but in my experience of the game its just sorta... there, and nearly impossible to use intentionally

[runic musk]

No but i'd figured since i had a clip on standby to show it lol.

[sinful nimbus]

Parrying fans when they learn how to pogo

[real crater]

Parrying is just better than pogo fun wise

[vestal swan]

You can parry Pogo!!! It still doesn't help

[high violet]

my life changed in HK when i learned about downward pogo on my first playthrough

[half pawn]

Why aren't we actually talking about silksong lore?

[sinful nimbus]

You clearly aren't a pogobro

[vestal swan]

Downward Pogo is the only Pogo, also you should be able to chop someone's arm off instead of slashing their sword if your PO going them and you get a Parry

[runic musk]

Can't wait to try pogoing off random mobs in Silksong to try and speed up traversal but instead fall off the map

[high violet]

well its an adjacent topic to what we were just talking about which is silksong parry

[spark valve]

currently this channel is just a more silksong focused one than ss-disc and the convo started by comparing mechanics between the games

[vestal swan]

We are discussing how the parry system works and how it doesn't really work in hollow Knight

[sinful nimbus]

Limb chopping in Silksong like MGRR

[midnight reef]

so many people are going to be irrationally annoyed about Silksongs base pogo...

[real crater]

I hope we can just perma unlock old pogo instead of the new pogo

[half pawn]

Oh ok

[vestal swan]

I wouldn't say irrationally annoyed it looks really weird

[midnight reef]

Because its no longer just a down slash

[sinful nimbus]

Downgrade fr

[blissful harbor]

i think it’s an improvement ngl

[spark valve]

It’ll take some getting used to but it’s a lot more dynamic

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[blissful harbor]

i didn’t like it at first, but seeing it more it’s grown on me fr

[midnight reef]

You cant just pogo off a boss or enemy forever

[vestal swan]

I've been seeing it for this whole time and I still don't like it

[real crater]

It allows u to better stall in the air

[vestal swan]

There's like seven movement abilities that let you stall in the air awkward Pogo should not be one of them imo

[runic musk]

(Also just wanna say more often then not the enemy takes damage because they tend to move into your slashes hitbox)

[blissful harbor]

how is it awkward

[vestal swan]

[spark valve]

The new pogo is very at home in hornet’s moveset idk how somebody could look at clips with the pogo and say it looks awkward it’s smooth as fuck

[vestal swan]

What do you mean how

[sinful nimbus]

Aerial combat is lame 🥱

[midnight reef]

and one of the crests does give you a more "traditional" pogo

[runic musk]

I dont think it looks awkward I just think it'd take time getting used to, especially since I just recently played a lot of HK.

[spark valve]

If anything the knight’s pogo looks more awkward

[blissful harbor]

i mean looks pretty good to me, it basically targets infront of and below hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Shovel Knight vs Specter Knight

[high violet]

yeah i agree i also freel like the new pogo fits perfectly fine in the context of the game and its play style

[blissful harbor]

literally

[high violet]

when you guys are talking about the pogo you sound like youre describing the one from the lace fight silksong remake lmao

[spark valve]

Pogo and sprint attack are both goated ways to let enemies play into your movement options

[midnight reef]

also makes combat look cool as fuck

[blissful harbor]

sprint attack leading into pogo, peak design TC

[runic musk]

You think there'd be a boss that moves around to different arenas like some Ori bosses did?

[midnight reef]

and if you want to believe BlueSR, feels really good to play after you get use to it

[high violet]

i think hornets base pogo would be weird in HK but defo not in SS

[real crater]

Oh god next we are going to have a skill tree with the crafting mechanic just add a multiplayer and u have a diablo style game

[spark valve]

Silk tree it was right fucking there come on man

[real crater]

No never that's too good and just might happen but a skill tree it's boring they shall never put it in

[midnight reef]

A skill tree in a metroidvania seems like a bit hard to balance

[real crater]

Not really aterna noctis had one so did mine sols

[midnight reef]

Im probably just thinking about how to do it wrong, but making it work within progression?

[spark valve]

Well it just wouldn’t be for progression stuff

[runic musk]

Didnt Ori and the Blind Forest have a skill tree

[real crater]

Just make it unlock with ur standard metroidvania abilities

[spark valve]

It would obviously not be very good in ss though

[blissful harbor]

ori and the blind forest is ass tho

[real crater]

I hope we get to upgrade our crests tho

[spark valve]

Combat abilities being unlocked via exploration is way better

[vestal swan]

That's not a metroidvania

[high violet]

maybe unpopular opinion but i really dont like skill trees in general in most games

[spark valve]

I don’t really know why that would be helpful

[real crater]

Also ender magnolia had a mini skill tree for its spirit abilities

[midnight reef]

Crest upgrades would be nice, but I think each crest will still have a place and style to it

[blissful harbor]

i imagine the only thing we could upgrade is tool notches

[spark valve]

Is that unpopular

[real crater]

Damageeeeeeeeeee

[high violet]

i have no idea, thats why i said maybe

[spark valve]

Why not associate that with needle upgrades that makes way more sense

[real crater]

Many people don't like those overarching skill trees so a popular opinion

[runic musk]

I dont mind skill trees but they do get annoying if they have bloat like '+2%' shit

[real crater]

But that would kinda remove the grind

[blissful harbor]

i really hope crests have nothing to do with damage
i really want all crests to be viable

[high violet]

i dont like skill trees because i suck at deciding things

[spark valve]

Good?

[blissful harbor]

that way, it’s just how you want to play
like which attack set you want yk

[spark valve]

Plus crests getting damage upgraded independently would discourage experimentation

[midnight reef]

crests will change how Hornet fights, with different pogo styles and sprint attacks

no need for attack damage to be part of that system

[runic musk]

Crests being relegated to just move sets is something I can get behind

[blissful harbor]

the biggest thing i’m excited for

also all the new crests we haven’t seen

[high violet]

i think damage upgrades should be limited to the needle

[spark valve]

They do something else too but we don’t know what additional effects they all have

[blissful harbor]

i’m guessing changes to bind

[spark valve]

other than edge saying they modify your healing yeah

[blissful harbor]

oh i didn’t know that was actually confirmed lol

[runic musk]

Crests affect healing? Huh.

[real crater]

I mean it could just be quick focus and deep focus but crests imo

[high violet]

crests affect many things

[real crater]

Maybe even hornets cloak??

[spark valve]

pocketmags sucks to use now but I'll find it

[blissful harbor]

reminded me of hornets double jump

[real crater]

Not really what I was saying but yeah

[runic musk]

Interestingg

[blissful harbor]

functions huh
maybe certain things open with them..very vague

[high violet]

guess we'll find out in a week

[runic musk]

Seems like an excuse to do multiple playthroughs dominantly using a particular crest

[real crater]

Prob more I hope they are well hidden

[spark valve]

very much doubt that because it would suck

[blissful harbor]

ehhh i could see it being a kingsoul situation

[spark valve]

it would have to be very clearly signposted like that

[blissful harbor]

like youre basically spoon fed the answer, like a weaver crest opening weaver doors

[blissful harbor]

yuh it would need to be very obvious

or like, maybe ants become passive with an ant themed crest

[quartz salmon]

But that's boring

[blissful harbor]

i mean they do other things, not all of them would have like major uses imo, i think that’s pretty good
makes an area passive and adds npcs

[quartz salmon]

Maybe people have more secrets to share with different crests equipped

[real crater]

They did that with void heart

[mortal skiff]

I personally think that, anything else that the Crests affects will still ultimately be related to Hornet's style of combat.

[spark valve]

sure dialogue responding to certain crests would make sense

[quartz salmon]

Okay if it added npcs that would be good but just making ants passive is kinda borin

[spark valve]

well yeah

[blissful harbor]

the abyss is barely an area
it’s a glorified walk to vh, shade cloak, and abyss shriek cmon

[blissful harbor]

maybe, i think it’s would be better than just defeating the queen and it being a rehash of the mantis tribe

[runic musk]

Nothing wrong with hostile on sight enemies turning passive

So long I can still murder them if I wanna

I mean you could with the Mantises

[quartz salmon]

Sure alright

You guys think there's gonna be more of areas changing throughout the game

[runic musk]

Yea

[quartz salmon]

I think they said they wanted to do more of that

[runic musk]

Just so long you dont lock yourself out of smth thats required for 100% because that'd be really annoying

[blissful harbor]

i pray they just don’t block off pathways like with infected crossroads

[real crater]

That was annoying indeed

[stray fog]

Fr

[mighty oyster]

I can agree with that

[runic musk]

Agreed

[blissful harbor]

anyways burned grotto is 100% gonna be a thing

[real crater]

Yeah that's sounds cool

[quartz salmon]

That's a really good idea

But what about the inverse
There's all sorts of sorceries so what if some of the lava areas became grassy

Or covered in webs!!!!! Like spider season which happens IN Australia!!!!!!

[stray fog]

What makes you think so?

[real crater]

Not as cool as burning grass but sounds interesting

[gilded beacon]

I don't think so, nir Moss Grotto nor The Marrow seem to be as connected as Forgotten Crossroads are

[quartz salmon]

The possibilities are endless actually it's just up to what team cherry thought good to do

And this spider season idea I just came up with could be a thing since it's a regular occurrence in Australia

[vestal swan]

You can paint stripes on a donkey doesn't make it a zebra

[quartz salmon]

It makes it a Quagga

[sinful nimbus]

Ori is a metroidvania though

Its progression is dictated by movement abilities

[terse wadi]

More like painting Metroidvania on a platformer

[runic musk]

Ngl if areas do change my main worry is they pull a Ori where you could stop yourself from getting 100% if you dont collect everything before doing a major event.

Due to said area becoming inaccessible after.

[quartz salmon]

that happens in hollow knight too i think?

maybe theyll be careful with that

[runic musk]

Regarding completion % I dont believe anything locks you out of it?

I do know the basic ending is locked out by getting Voidheart

[terse wadi]

You can still get everything

[quartz salmon]

then im sure theyll be careful

[vestal swan]

The only thing you can miss in hollow knight are some arcane eggs and dialogue

[quartz salmon]

thats fine

[terse wadi]

Well, ig that, but like who goes out of their way to voidheart before getting an ending unless they already know about it beforehand

[real crater]

U need new file for achievements tho

[runic musk]

Even then endings aren't completion marks so unless going for all achievements its not too big a deal

[vestal swan]

Okay achievements don't count because there's branching paths achievements

Save one character versus kill one character

[quartz salmon]

i havent gotten the basic ending on the steam version cause i went straight to voidheart

i had beat the game several years ago on the switch so it was fine

maybe ill do it now

[runic musk]

(Also I'm aware Definitive Edition rectifies this but still)

[steel slate]

Ngl it hasn’t quite hit me yet that Silksong is gonna have 40+ bosses at launch

That’s about as much as the full game Hollow Knight and this is before any dlc

[foggy fractal]

i will be hardest boss trust

[eternal gazelle]

as much as people like to dog on godmaster, its structure would actually go nuts with the introduction of crests

[steel slate]

I get the feeling this game’s bosses are gonna be better on average than HK

Cuz for as wonderful as HK’s bosses are as a collection, there are some major duds

[spark valve]

I mean I feel like just having boss refights more than satisfies this

you don't need the whole structure

[steel slate]

Don’t really need anything more than a hall of gods

If they did gave us a hall of gods but without pantheon, we could still do pantheons in a sense

[foggy fractal]

I mean either way people will mod it in

sucks for any non pc players though

[steel slate]

We’ll probably get a way to easily refight bosses

It wouldn’t make sense to just never get that in silksong

Though most likely it’s just dlc again

How many bosses did Hollow Knight have base game?

[runic musk]

Like 30 or so iirc

[steel slate]

Besides the nailmasters, pv, absrad, gpz, and grimms who was missing?

[quartz salmon]

like 6 years ago team cherry went like "we hope you guys arent expecting another boss rush mode" which would mean they had no plans for it but things could have changed in half a decade

they either did make one or will make one for dlc if plans changed

[steel slate]

I’m not expecting a pantheon tbh though it would be peak

[runic musk]

I'm not expecting another boss rush but I wouldnt care too much if there'll be one anyway

[real crater]

It would be peak if it's like a theater where the bosses are remade from silk using hornets memory and relic they drop

[steel slate]

I just hope for a hall of gods equivalent at one point just so there’s a way to easily refight bosses

[terse wadi]

That'd be nice

[steel slate]

Silksong bosses are about to be peak with no Flukemarm or dream warriors

[quartz salmon]

thats neat

[real crater]

I know right with trobbio or someone older wiser than trobbio conducting the ceremony I guess could be nice

[terse wadi]

Can't wait for haunted difficulty lace/j

That's probably the attuned difficutly ngl

idk what other terms to use

[real crater]

pale silk as radiant I guess

[terse wadi]

mmmm

Idk

[real crater]

Probably based on the final bosses name like it is in hk

[steel slate]

To mess with people make radiant be void difficulty

[plucky granite]

i genuinely hope they have a godhome equivalent cause i’m gonna wanna refight the bosses without having to replay the entire game every time

even something as simple as nine sol’s boss memories mode would suffice

it doesn’t need to be any new content like boss rushes or new bosses

[steel slate]

Doesn’t even need an ascended difficulty

These bosses are gonna be so peak

[plucky granite]

exactly i just am gonna wanna fight them again normally

they all gonna be so good 🙏

[steel slate]

40+ bosses and none of them are Markoth

[quartz salmon]

there must be SOME stinkers in there

[plucky granite]

we don’t know that

[steel slate]

True lmao

[plucky granite]

dream bosses have a non zero chance to appear in silksong

[steel slate]

Probably, but I don’t think the lows will get as low unless they try something insane

[plucky granite]

cause… they were alive at some point

[vestal swan]

We do

The game is a sequel

[quartz salmon]

oh...brother!!

[vestal swan]

And hornet can't see ghosts, and TK took care of them already

[steel slate]

We get Markoth + MMC duo battle

[gentle aspen]

?

Why would any of them appear in silksong?

[plucky granite]

when did it not become a prequel what

[gentle aspen]

even if the game’s a prequel they are all solidly locked into Hallownest’s world

[steel slate]

Silksong better give us More Massive Moss Charger

[vestal swan]

It was never a prequel people just base that on a bad translation

[gentle aspen]

That’s just a pointless callback

[plucky granite]

if you told me that farloom and hallownest would have 0 connection, i would probably laugh

[real crater]

Also hornet doesn't have shade dash to get to markoth

[plucky granite]

i’m not saying

multiple characters from hk will be in ss

but 0 connection is insane

[vestal swan]

The connection is the main character, the tribe of spiders that left, and the steel guys

I don't know why you're assuming wild shit like a bunch of old bosses are going to appear

[real crater]

Are they the same as jin or just same idk tribe Ig

[gentle aspen]

Why would they?

[steel slate]

I feel like at most we’ll see only a few enemies from HK in SS

[gentle aspen]

They are different kingdoms

[vestal swan]

Presumably they are all of the same group with a singular master

[quartz salmon]

theres one old boss that will appear

[vestal swan]

Okay look here you little shit

[plucky granite]

that’s not what i said at all

[vestal swan]

You said that there was a chance that old defeated bosses could appear that's basically what you said

[plucky granite]

i just said there is a non zero chance a dream bosses could appear in silksong if it was a prequel

[sinful nimbus]

New desktop background dropped

[vestal swan]

It's not a prequel and that still wouldn't be a thing, it's in a different Kingdom

[quartz salmon]

yeah i already did that this is like super high quality

[steel slate]

They’d be different fights if they did tbf so one way or another Silksong has no Markoth

[plucky granite]

what if farloom and hallownest were close to each other? we literally have no idea as of now

[sinful nimbus]

I think "There's no evidence its a prequel" is bad reasoning when the timeline placement is being deliberately kept vague

[gentle aspen]

they aren’t

[vestal swan]

It's not really, it's not any more vague than any other detail

[sinful nimbus]

We know its a sequel because the chronology wouldn't work when the weavers are in Pharloom

[plucky granite]

where is this info from

[foggy fractal]

besides don't you need dream nail to fight dream bosses anyways

[quartz salmon]

"hornet has lost her traditional strength"

is all you need to hear from team cherry to understand if its a prequel or sequel

[gentle aspen]

The opening cutscene of Silksong

[spark valve]

arguing they're close together is actively going against what the intro cutscene is obviously trying to communicate

[vestal swan]

You see them traveling through several regions of the wastes with hornet in a cage

[spark valve]

"yeah there's a travel montage but that could just be four different rooms total"

[plucky granite]

close as in they are travel-able

not as in right next to eachother

[gentle aspen]

that’s not close

[quartz salmon]

the real mystery is how theyre not losing their minds even outside of a higher beings influence

[steel slate]

Markoth is actually a tutorial boss

[spark valve]

that's not a mystery

[gentle aspen]

by this logic opposite sides of the globe are close

The moon is close

[vestal swan]

If I want to I can go to Spain right now, is it close to Louisiana?

[vestal swan]

Not everybody relies on one it's simple as that

[foggy fractal]

I don't think Hornet is gonna travel back to Hallownest anyways

[plucky granite]

could you walk to spain

[vestal swan]

Potentially

[gentle aspen]

There’s genuinely no way you’re arguing this definition of close bruh

that’s just not how the word works

[plucky granite]

“close” is a word that’s used relatively

[steel slate]

Doesn’t Silksong exist specifically because playing as Hornet in Hallownest wouldn’t work well?

[gentle aspen]

😐

[eternal gazelle]

Hallownest is like a chicago where the deer gain human intelligence while inside the city limits but there are also regular humans in the world

[gentle aspen]

gotta be ragebait atp

[spark valve]

damn I gotta go to chicago sometime that sounds sick

[foggy fractal]

even if we entertain that idea none of hollow knight rooms is gonna work with Hornet
how is she gonna get dreamnail even
what happens to the timeline how do we have Hornet fight a boss that's been fought already etc

[vestal swan]

By no stretch of the word could these two things be considered close

[plucky granite]

yall started this because i un seriously replied to someone saying that markoth wont be in silksong

[vestal swan]

And he won't be?

[gentle aspen]

so yeah ragebait

[plucky granite]

if you think what i’m saying is rage bait (which i’m not) just don’t interject into the conversation…?

if you think i’m delusional, let me be delusional

[gentle aspen]

you cannot change the definition of a word to suit your needs during a discussion

[spark valve]

only I get to do that

[foggy fractal]

hey no fair !

[steel slate]

[terse wadi]

It takes quite a lot of people to change the etymology of a word

[gentle aspen]

and this is why I hate linguists

Not the channel to ask

[plucky granite]

when compared to the distance of the sun and the moon, the moon and earth are close right?

[spark valve]

ur just mad because you don't have the dictionary password

[plucky granite]

i’m kinda glad neither of the two mods are continuing the conversation actually if either of you are reading this don’t bother it’s a pointless argument

[foggy fractal]

silksong releases in a week anyways we'll see whos right then

[plucky granite]

true

although it’s not like i was trying as hard as i can to prove a point, it was a silly hypothetical because the dreamers probably wouldent be dead at the time if farloom was a prequel

[terse wadi]

Silksong is actually a treequel

[halcyon rose]

it takes place during the tree

[gilded beacon]

Silksong is actually a "what if... " Scenario

[edgy stone]

Silksong is just a delusion hornet has after she gets knocked out fighting thr hollow knight

[real crater]

Probably not a dream angle doesn't make sense it's about silk and song unless it's sound based

[terse wadi]

Sould illusion disks from Fnaf/j

[real crater]

I am sorry what in what

[halcyon rose]

discs that make you see illusion by making specific sounds that fuck with your brain

[terse wadi]

Ah, sorry, basically, they produce frequenceies that trick your brain itnto seeing illusions

[halcyon rose]

that are in the sister location animatronics and maybe the nightmares idk

[real crater]

God fnaf should have ended a while ago with fanf 3 Iirc

[terse wadi]

It just got a soft reboot so maybe that will get rid of all if not most of the crazy shit

[sinful nimbus]

Fazbear frights are so peak that continuing the series was a fine decision

[terse wadi]

(Technically Secrets of the mimic is rexcontextualization but whatever)

[foggy fractal]

peak of the mimic 🗣️

[real crater]

Nooo I don't wanna go back it sound so fun but the plot holes nooooo

[gilded beacon]

Ash is in coma tipe bs

[terse wadi]

FNAF lore solving is for the experts (to go insane)

[gilded beacon]

My fave part of FNAF lore is when Springtrap impregnates a man

[tawdry flare]

I’m TELLING you it’s an AU

[gilded beacon]

Is an AU where Hornet isn't void

[terse wadi]

My favourite part of Fnaf lore is when William Afton gets Karma'd

[gilded beacon]

Wanna know what's the name of the guy that Springtrap impregnated?

[real crater]

Glitchtrap??

Huh why can't I see the slowmode timer did they remove it for is it just discord being janky

[terse wadi]

Alright, alright, this isn't fnaf lore it's ss lore

Discord being janky, it still exists

[gilded beacon]

The man he impregnates is MatPat :\

[real crater]

Dude not cool

[tawdry flare]

This all actually happened but I don’t think we need to bring it up

[terse wadi]

^

[gilded beacon]

Sorry

Back to SS lore

[real crater]

Huh ok now I don't wanna go back good job ss lore u made me wanna go back then made me not wanna go back thansk

[terse wadi]

So anyways, Hornet is the pope

[gilded beacon]

How would TC handle the "all HK endings are canon" in silksong?

[real crater]

No I don't think that the character of hornet has all the requisite story components to fulfill that specific criteria 🤓

[rocky flare]

elaborate

[terse wadi]

it happening afterwards of any of the endings

[rocky flare]

do you think it's not possible?

[real crater]

Also thoughts on sealed sibling ending

[halcyon rose]

i honestly think it will just never actually be elaborated upon if silksong takes place after or before

[rocky flare]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[tawdry flare]

They ignore the endings because they aren’t relevant to the story of Silksong

[real crater]

I know I was asking hermit

[rocky flare]

oh ok mb

[real crater]

It's fine what are ur thoughts on phantom

[lethal burrow]

There's only two ways it could happen if the game is a sequel.

A. it's ambiguous which ending it takes place after and they completely ignore the hornet hollow knight interaction (which would be disappointing and lame and unsatisfying)

B. They do openly acknowledge the hornet hollow Knight interaction and therefore make the other endings not Canon (also somewhat lame)

[rocky flare]

just saying things lol

[runic musk]

Just make it so you pick an ending to continue off of smh

[rocky flare]

phantom looks badass

[eternal gazelle]

I think you're dramatically overestimating the implications of the final shot of embrace the void

[real crater]

I meant more for theories

[lethal burrow]

The implications is that there is some sort of interaction between the two.

[eternal gazelle]

it's a fight that would either not happen at all or be over in seconds because THK is actively dying

and as for nonviolent interactions, well... THK can't talk

[lethal burrow]

so

[real crater]

That's sad I would have loved to see him talk

[eternal gazelle]

so it's not really worth seeing

[lethal burrow]

Yes, it is

[tawdry flare]

Well they scream at you non-verbally in the PV fight

[terse wadi]

THK is also free from Radiance, it may not be able to talk but it has a mind to think, They probably wouldn't fight

[lethal burrow]

It would still be cool to see

[spark valve]

there's just nowhere to take the etv thing that's remotely relevant

[lethal burrow]

omg imagine if the hollow knight is the tutorial fight for silksong

[spark valve]

and wouldn't suck

[halcyon rose]

that would be a fun concept but not likely imo

[terse warren]

Is it dying though if the infection is gone?

[real crater]

I would love to see a semi tutorial fight with like shakra

[eternal gazelle]

I think you're letting your hype moments and aura brain take over your actual storytelling brain

[hardy crater]

Phantom

[spark valve]

it's not dying just severely wounded

[eternal gazelle]

alright yeah poor phrasing

it's got a limb rotted off and isn't empowered by an angry god anymore, so it wouldn't die if left to its own devices but it wouldn't make a good showing if it tried to fight hornet (which it has no reason to do)

[lethal burrow]

you're doing that thing that people do when they can't think of anything else to say where they just try to devalue whatever their "opponent" in the argument is saying

[spark valve]

it's also visibly putting weight on its nail and shit

[terse wadi]

It has a mind to think, attacking hornet holds no merit

[halcyon rose]

it sees red and red is their least favorite color

[tawdry flare]

Could they focus to heal after beating up a bunch of bugs outside or nah

[terse wadi]

THK is actually colourblind/j

[spark valve]

probably

[eternal gazelle]

okay but seriously what would be the value of THK committing suicide by hornet now that it finally has a shot at life outside the egg

what is the story being told here

[terse wadi]

I think THK just wants to be a dude, living its life now

[spark valve]

I mean it dying is an important part of the hk narrative but it's important that tk kill it

[lethal burrow]

I just presented it as a cool idea. I didn't know you you were stripped of all your fun and whimsy.
I honestly don't really care too much how the interaction goes down. I just want to have some sort of continuation of that interaction exists whether they communicate or fight or just look at each other or whatever.

[terse warren]

It would be cool as a concept but there aren't really many interactions between the two

By the point you can get the ending you already went into the abyss so I think hornet wouldn't kill THK, plus the infection is gone so she has no reason to kill vessels as a whole as they can't worsen the situation

No real interesting way that the game can continue after that

[terse warren]

I'm not really shocked that in the "more in-depth discussion channel" people discuss the topic in-depth and analyze it

[terse wadi]

It'd probably be a long staredown then hornet walks away

[halcyon rose]

City building game that takes place directly after that ending
Thk and hornet attempt to rebuild hallownest for whatever damn reason

[gilded beacon]

If the infection is dead, wouldn't THK stop being aggressive??

[real crater]

Or the thk just like lies down from being tied for so long then fighting a battle

[tawdry flare]

Hollow Knight Build…

[terse warren]

Neither of them have any reason to be aggressive anymore so yeah

[cursive sinew]

What about option C where the game is a sequel yet never directly states what happens to Hallownest after any of the endings, Hornet is just captured and brought to Pharloom where her connection to Hallownest is brought up through the Weavers and her past with them?

[lethal burrow]

I don't think it's looking that in depth to just say "there's nothing here more to happen that's interesting or to be gained"

[halcyon rose]

Imagine having your one purpose in life which you didnt even do a good job at, getting stripped from you by a "stranger"

[terse warren]

When you analyze why there is nothing more to be gained? I would say so

[tawdry flare]

That is Literally What is Going to Happen This Speculation is Odd

[gilded beacon]

They just chill in the Pleasure House

[terse wadi]

Technically it's your sibling

[cursive sinew]

Exactly.

[gilded beacon]

Next to Millibelle

[steel slate]

Ello

[viscid ridge]

Twin, whe have you been

[halcyon rose]

One out of a trillion

[real crater]

If u are talking about thk and hornet then half siblings

[tawdry flare]

THK KILLS Millibelle with their ten thousand swords

[terse wadi]

I'm talking about TK and THK

[real crater]

Oh ok

[terse wadi]

Ngl, I don't want a TK mod in SS I want a juiced up TK the size of PV

[steel slate]

Who was millibelle again?

[halcyon rose]

Bank

[eternal gazelle]

banker

[steel slate]

Ah

[viscid ridge]

We all know the TPK and TWL are the parents of TK and THK and TBV, while TPK and HTB are the parents of H

[gilded beacon]

Thief

[viscid ridge]

🤣🤣

[cursive sinew]

If it helps clear anything, I want to point these out from the website and steam description respectively.

Silksong's main plot point for most of the game will likely be uncovering the reason why Hornet was brought to Pharloom and weaver lore.

[halcyon rose]

Lost siblings HDMI and DVD

[real crater]

I hate that's a factual statement

[terse wadi]

Don't you get more money than you invested by beating her up in the pleasure housej

[halcyon rose]

Oh right

[gilded beacon]

Would the White Lady be glad to see The Hollow Knight??

[viscid ridge]

Only hollow knight fans know this mirse code

[terse wadi]

Nah, she's disappointed

You're her new favourite "son"

[tawdry flare]

Yeah she gives interest

[viscid ridge]

No i think White lady is sad that the hollow knight has to suffer, but she seems to also feel bad for the bugs of hallownest, so she is playing trolly problem and sacrifices it to save tge kingdom

[gilded beacon]

She's kinda blind, maybe she doesn't recognize them

[real crater]

Not blind also a higher being

[terse wadi]

She literally tells TK THK failed miserably go take its place

[viscid ridge]

White lady can feel all her children in her roots

[terse wadi]

How is that not disappointment

[viscid ridge]

Without needing to see them

[spark valve]

she can be disappointed by its failure without like disliking it as a being

[terse wadi]

Perhaps

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i know that's why i say she sacrafices it for the good of the kingdom

[real crater]

I think its like thk got bad grades white lady doesn't hate it just disappointed

[spark valve]

it's not like she guides tk to go kill it for shits and giggles

[terse wadi]

WL basically just tells TK it should've been the THK "no blemishes"

[gilded beacon]

She explains that she loved Hornet, at least a little I could see her also loving THK but not bonding with them because of their mission to contain the infection

[viscid ridge]

I doubt she is disappointed in it, she just says that it is flawed. I mean if she is so sad about killing literally thousands of others of her children, so why would she not feel sad for the hollow knight

[spark valve]

it's a hail mary

[terse wadi]

It is

[spark valve]

it's not like tk is any better she just doesn't have the direct confirmation of it already having failed

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i hope they still keep the daugter of 3 queens backstory for hornet, so if its still the case then the white lady probably raised hornet

[spark valve]

they didn't

[terse wadi]

Keep? it was never canon

[spark valve]

3q was cooked the moment hive got moved

[real crater]

Isn't the lore hornet got trained by weavers?

[spark valve]

and makes zero sense with hornet's actual background

[terse wadi]

She was trained by weavers

[viscid ridge]

I never said its canon, i just meant i hope they make it canon, because they said they were not sure if they want to keep it as her backstory. No need to be annoyingly pedantic

[gilded beacon]

Even if isn't canon the WL still admits that she felt affection for Hornet, even if she isn't her daughter

[real crater]

Man ss lore going a bit downhill today

[spark valve]

canonizing 3q in ss would be a very silly retcon for no reason

and would make herrah's motivations incredibly bizarre but whatever

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, it feels very motherly. It would also explain why Hornet knows so much about the plans that are going on in the background of the game, if the White Lady tought her about it, but were not sure if thats the case

[spark valve]

hornet knows shit wl doesn't what

[viscid ridge]

How come?

[spark valve]

hornet was a gift to deepnest that's not really true if she doesn't actually live there and was raised in the palace 💀

[midnight zinc]

Oh nah, not the three queens debate. 2018 HK fandom discourse

[gentle aspen]

She did not

[spark valve]

hive is also strictly isolationist which is ofc inconsistent with randomly training royalty from another realm for no reason

[gentle aspen]

If you love something you do not phrase it as “I feel some affection for the creature birthed”

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but ill guess we'll find out in Silksong. I personally believe the 3Q idea, mostly because i think its cool, but if Silksong proves otherwise than i wouldn't be disappointed, it is still a cut concept at the end of the day

[viscid ridge]

Should i quote the dialogue where she says it?

[gentle aspen]

I directly quoted the line she said

[midnight zinc]

Hornet was raised by Herrah, obviously she had some contact and interaction with the king and queen, and probably went to the palace at some point, but she was raised in Deepnest. She’s closer to a weaver than a vessel.

[gentle aspen]

She was not raised by Herrah

[viscid ridge]

To me it reads more of like the white lady saying that even though hornet is not her daughter, she cant help but feel love towards her

[terse warren]

She's closer to a weaver than a vessel because she wasn't thrown into the abyss, I'd argue

[gilded beacon]

She's a fierce foe, strong in mind and body, striking reflection of her mother, though the two were permitted little time together.
I never begrudged the Wyrm's dalliance as bargain. In fact, I feel some affection for the creature birthed.
If your paths were ever to align, I imagine you might gain yourself a powerful ally

[midnight zinc]

You’re right, Midwife says they didnt spend time together, but she was raised in Deepnest

[viscid ridge]

They did spend a little time together, so its not an impossibility, but we really dont know the timeline for her childhood

[terse warren]

That's just what joker said :/

[midnight zinc]

Correct, but she didn’t have the same upbringing as THK is what I meant. She wasn’t trained in the white palace by the PK.

[terse warren]

Yeah that's fair

[gentle aspen]

[gilded beacon]

Also after killing Herra she express her wish to have spend more time with her

[halcyon rose]

She was raised by the joker

[gentle aspen]

I did no such thing

[halcyon rose]

No, dc joker

[midnight zinc]

Joker isn’t trying to pay child support

[foggy fractal]

no not the jojoker

[viscid ridge]

I might be completely misrembering, but midwife also has dialogue that says she was away from deepnest for a long time, so that could either be referring to her time away from hallownest, or her childhood

[gentle aspen]

she’s referring to now

as in Hornet doesn’t go to Deepnest because she’s murking vessels and guarding Brand

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, it personally sounds to me like she is referring to the time she was away from hallownest, ill go look uo the dialogue just to he sure

[random harbor]

Midwife - General - King's Brand

My good friend. You wear that bright mark of relationship. Then you've met her perhaps? Her who'd guard the mark, the Gendered Child.
A spritely thing, isn't she? Pale gift to the Nest and the Beast, and fair trade for sacrifice made.
Long she's been distant. It'd do our spirits well were she to grace us a visit home...
...He hee. Oh. Hmm. I am sorry. Old memories cause my mind to wander on such silly diversions, especially when I'm oh so famished...

@kingoclowns used /npcs misc name: Midwife category: General dialogue: King's Brand

[foggy fractal]

what a low life ! farming noobs instead of fighting fair 1v1s

huh

[viscid ridge]

Thanks i appreciate

[terse warren]

She's talking about deepnest

"It'd do our spirits well were she to grace us a visit home..."

[viscid ridge]

So (this is my interpretation) it sounds to me like she was taken and raised somewhere else, and that she rarely visited them, but more likely it refers to her long absence before the events of the game, so they havent seen her in a long time, and thus it would be good if they see her again

[gentle aspen]

[spark valve]

it's because hornet has been wandering around for a while

[gentle aspen]

the first part is basically not at all implied

[spark valve]

bruh if she wasn't raised in deepnest it wouldn't even be her home

[viscid ridge]

Yeah its my opinion so dont take that as canon, the later is far far more likely

[spark valve]

A spritely thing, isn't she? Pale gift to the Nest and the Beast, and fair trade for sacrifice made.
Long she's been distant. It'd do our spirits well were she to grace us a visit home...
"Yeah she actually was taken from deepnest right away and was raised elsewhere"

[vestal swan]

We don't have an exact measure but it's been an insanely large amount of time since the kingdom snapped back from the first infection and then fell to the second one, if she hasn't visited home in that entire time generations of other bugs could have lived and died in the dialogue makes perfect sense. She also didn't want to go back and see her basically dead mom

[viscid ridge]

I just feel there are some missing pieces, and its essentially my gut feeling that she wasn't that involved in deepnest, but please please its just a feeling, im in no way saying its true or anything. I just feel there is something we dont know yet.

[vestal swan]

She could have been an adult before she started going around the kingdom to another things, nothing suggests she was raised outside of deepnest

You have to look at how ridiculously long the potential time span is between her being raised and now

[raven cove]

Hornet was raised in Deepnest

We know for a fact she was trained by the Weavers and there’s no reason to assume she was taken to be raised anywhere else

[viscid ridge]

I have an explanation for it, but the evidence is very flimsy, so i dont want to bring it up. I'll rather see what she tells us about her Backstory in silksong. All im saying is something feels off, like we are missing a puzzle piece and i can't fully explain why i think its the case.

[vestal swan]

There's nothing missing besides the untold time periods that fit on the timeline

[raven cove]

I don’t understand the point of this message

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i know, id rather not talk about it cause id sound like a crazy person 😅

[raven cove]

If you have nothing to say beyond “let’s wait for Silksong” then sure, let’s wait for Silksong. It’s true that we aren’t told in detail everything that’s happened across Hornet’s incredibly long lifetime

[gilded beacon]

Wait.... How old is Hornet actually?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah... man im getting silk withdrawal without ever having placed silksong 🥲

[raven cove]

We don’t have an exact number, but she is very old

[gentle aspen]

very

[viscid ridge]

Older than elderbug 🤣

[raven cove]

This is true of most NPCs

[viscid ridge]

If hollow knight existed in deathnote would Light and L argue about the lore?

[foggy fractal]

yes

[raven cove]

I don’t know anything about that, sorry

[viscid ridge]

Suspicous 🤨😏

[raven cove]

🤫

[simple anchor]

Guys my carton of milk is best used before September 4th its a sign

[uneven oak]

mayhaps

[simple anchor]

My milk is secretly a copy of silksong

This is huge

[quartz salmon]

Leave it under your PC with a letter for team cherry and the release date spirit will work it's magic

[terse wadi]

Random question but who is elderbug referring to in his dreamnail dialogue with the flower

[vestal swan]

Some probably long dead love interest? If I remember the dialogue correctly

[eternal gazelle]

just a friend

[spark valve]

unless he's being euphemistic for no real reason

[terse wadi]

"These petals... so white. Can you see them too... watching me from wherever you are?"

Could be dead, could just have left hallownest

[vestal swan]

I don't think they would be watching unless they're like a major psychic

[midnight reef]

probably dead

[terse wadi]

The line "watching from wherever you are" can be used to refer to someone wsho is far away

[midnight reef]

Elderbug is old for a normal bug, likely has lost most of those he knew to the rotting corpse of Hallownest or old age

[terse wadi]

Doesn't necessarily mean dead, but it likely does here

[terse wadi]

He's an infant compared to hornet

Not really relevant but just funny

[midnight reef]

To everyone else, really

even the stag is likely twice his age

[terse wadi]

Every major player in Hallownest is very old

[midnight reef]

maybe hes older than Sly?

[terse wadi]

Elderbug? hard to say,

Sly seems to have memories of pre fall and as far as I remember Elderbug was born after it

[midnight reef]

The Nailmasters seem to have been mostly independant of the rest of Hallownest, or even emerged after its fall

[terse wadi]

Or shortly before

[terse wadi]

Sly's dialogue when you first find him iirc implies he's been around pre fall since iirc he mentions someone we don't meet

[midnight reef]

which is possible to have happened after Hallownest fell

[terse wadi]

That village was likely still populated before the fall too

Hence him being there in the first place

[midnight reef]

The Village being dead is a recent occurance at the start of the game, with Elderbug being the only one left

[terse wadi]

I'm not talking about Dirtmouthe

[midnight reef]

which one? The one in Crossroads?

[terse wadi]

Yes

That you find sly in

[midnight reef]

When Sly ended up in there I dont think it was still an active village

[terse wadi]

Hard to say

Sly likes Geo and running his shop don't see why he'd go into the depths post fall and risk getting infected, he's not dumb

Unless he was already down there when it happened

[midnight reef]

But Elderbug knew Sly left Dirtmouth

[terse wadi]

A question of when really

[vestal swan]

"esmy" does not suggest pre-fall, there's a long ass time where the kingdom sucks too they could have arrived as adventurers to the dying or dead kingdom. But iirc there's either a nailsmith or a Quirrel reference? But I think Sheo talks about having not seen the knights in their prime so that would suggest they are younger

[terse wadi]

Younger but not necessarily post fall

Too vague imo

[midnight reef]

Im still extremely tempted to think that Sly is younger than Elderbug

Hes got the name for a reason... right?

[terse wadi]

He's just older than the common bug

[midnight reef]

Oldest resident of Dirtmouth

[terse wadi]

Or he's got a weirdass name

[vestal swan]

The only one we are sure he's older than is Bretta because he calls her a child and she is a normal resident

[terse wadi]

Bretta leaves, wonder if we'll see her in Pharloom

[midnight reef]

Bretta probably would've died in the wastes, tbh

[terse wadi]

If zote can make it here, anyone can

[midnight reef]

Zote has plot armor

and is just cool like that

[spark valve]

The wastes are dangerous but probably considerably less dangerous than Hallownest or Pharloom

[midnight reef]

Your not just going to be able to walk through them unprepared

[terse wadi]

There's really no indication how preppared or unpreppared bretta wa when she left

[midnight reef]

Quirrel is a trained combatant, Zote is... Zote, the Knight is a vessel, Corny had Iselda

Tiso was also a trained fighter

[spark valve]

From a narrative standpoint alone I don’t think it makes sense as a resolution of Bretta’s arc (which does exist even if it’s not a focus whatsoever) for her to go die in the wastes so like she’s probably fine

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[midnight reef]

I guess

It'd be funny if she does just show up in Pharloom

watch Zote accidentally follow her to annoy the shit out've Hornet

I dont really think we'll see characters like Zote, Bretta, ect, in Silksong

we'll see in a week, though

I kinda hope we see a grubberfly

[terse wadi]

I could see Bretta specifically because she ventured into the wastes

No one else

[foggy fractal]

I could see that round fella

[vestal swan]

Cloth does too if you fuck up her questline, but the best ending is Zote dying, Bretta not getting gaslit and Cloth dying

[terse wadi]

I think the fact that a branching path is of zote dying means he won't return

[spark valve]

the best ending is bretta getting gaslit because it's what ultimately disillusions her with the idea she has that everything she wants is eventually going to come to her

that's why she leaves, to go find her own happiness

[ionic quarry]

I think whichever npcs end up in silksong it will only be a few total so as to look like a coincidence and also not detract too much from new characters.

Mister Mushroom is the most obvious.

I also think Grimm Troupe and the godmasters, or some variant of them, would make sense.

[spark valve]

troupe or godseekers would make no sense

[gentle aspen]

the troupe only makes sense if we see like

a lantern being constructed

[eternal gazelle]

I think anybody other than hornet showing up in pharloom is a coincidence bordering on unbelievability

[gentle aspen]

the godseekers is a definite no

[eternal gazelle]

if it's more than one that would be insane

[gentle aspen]

they are all in the dream realm

[ionic quarry]

The troupe literally travels from kingdom to kingdom don’t they? Assuming you didn’t destroy the nightmare heart and that the world is getting smaller due to a lack of wyrms they would show up in farloom eventually

[spark valve]

with the presumed exception of mister mushroom

[spark valve]

they show up to dead kingdoms pharloom isn't dead

they have no reason to be there and probably no ability to travel there

[foggy fractal]

what if i kil pharloom

[gilded beacon]

They could be waiting while building the lantern and preparing the ritual

[spark valve]

that's not how they operate

[ionic quarry]

I mean fair

[gilded beacon]

That's the best option actually

We see a dead Troupe bug next to the lantern of Howling Cliffs

[terse warren]

"Restore hope to the kingdom" said the trailer

[foggy fractal]

no no Hornet will do that

I will kill

[ionic quarry]

Idk the in-depth lore but they’re all inhabiting the dream of the one godseeker right? Assuming you don’t go for the p5 endings couldn’t she have wandered elsewhere in search of more gods? Or better yet, maybe there are multiple host godseekers wandering the wastes like a colony?

[gentle aspen]

how is she supposed to wander around

[gilded beacon]

To be fair she really is killing anyone that she finds

[gentle aspen]

she is locked in a sarcophagus

and no

there aren’t multiple godseekers going around

[ionic quarry]

You’re probably right, but on the off chance that a similar godhome is in silksong I’ll be coming back here with an “I told you so” lol

[gilded beacon]

I think that really the biggest impediment for God Home in silksong is a way for Hornet to enter it, unless Nedolin allows her to enter other bugs minds I don't think that we would have something like that

[ionic quarry]

That’s true I didn’t even think about that

Dream Nail as an item would be a little redundant

I need to see the next stage of the grub lifecycle in silksong

[gilded beacon]

It would be neat ngl

Maybe we find a grub preparing to become a Grubfather

Idk

[eternal gazelle]

I don't think many people would mourn godhome if silksong's boss rushes were just a menu option

[terse warren]

Ehhh menu option would

Definitely be a decision?

[gilded beacon]

I'd rather have it integrated in lore and the world than just a menu option

[runic musk]

wouldnt be first time i'd see it

Ori and the Will of the Wisps did similar, albeit with no boss rush.

[terse warren]

For me as long as there is an in-game hub it's fine

I quite enjoy having to run around Godhome

Plus, it allows for secrets

[gilded beacon]

Knowing TC they would rather make it an actual place inside the world than just a menu option

They did it for HK having less money, why wouldn't they do it again?

[ionic quarry]

I would mourn having an in-game explanation for boss rushes.

[gilded beacon]

They could just make a new faction, or even if they reuse the God seekers they would make do it makes sense in the lore

[vestal swan]

That would be incredibly lame

[gilded beacon]

It would take all the immersion out

[sinful nimbus]

Godhome lore sucks and there was no reason to integrate it into the story

[gilded beacon]

It wouldn't feel as if you were fighting against gods it would feel like a lame menu

[sinful nimbus]

Menus are the way to go but if you really want an explanation for it a better route would've been just memories of TK

[spark valve]

something something hornet can request performances of trobbio where he reenacts boss fights

[sinful nimbus]

Its not very immersive when the lore is as contrived as it is

[gilded beacon]

You can ignore lore and just fight, but you can't ignore a menu option

[sinful nimbus]

What's wrong with menus

Its focused on gameplay either way

[eternal gazelle]

idk people have not stopped complaining about the lore added by godmaster since it came out and it doesn't really add anything from a gameplay perspective since even as a location, it's still completely isolated from the rest of the game

[spark valve]

godmaster lore is mostly kind of fine etv is just narratively bad

[vestal swan]

The only issue I see with godmaster is the fucking flower interaction, and the fact that the god-tuner is kind of retroactively non-existent and working at the same time

[eternal gazelle]

you play hollow knight until it's 108% complete, then you go to godhome and probably never leave for as long as that save file exists

[gilded beacon]

They can always leave the Boss Rush for later

[terse warren]

Better than to not even log into the save file at all once you reach 100% in Silksong

[uneven oak]

relatable

[eternal gazelle]

it's not better, it's exactly the same

[gilded beacon]

Tbf once you end a save file you never touch it again, why leave Godhome?

[gentle aspen]

Just make it not relevant to the main story all of the issues I have with godhome stem from it randomly tying into the main story at the end

[spark valve]

it's not just being tied into the main story (though obviously it would be better not being) it's the fact that it entirely undercuts the most important part of the story

[terse warren]

At least it being within the save file gives it a sense of it not being useless.

Also wouldn't it being in the main menu be a downgrade if people want different Godhome stats in different save files?

[terse warren]

?

The most important part of the main story?

[spark valve]

facing the kingdom's past (ie fighting thk)

you have to destroy what remains of the kingdom so it can finally rest

[terse warren]

Oh

I suppose that makes sense

[gilded beacon]

I see your point

[terse warren]

Well considering how Silksong seems to be going into the opposite direction I doubt that'll be an issue

[spark valve]

then etv comes along and says actually that's lame just don't do that ez

[foggy fractal]

i hear your point

tc just wanted hype moments and aura (shade lord)

[terse warren]

More or less

[gilded beacon]

And the everbloom at the end

[foggy fractal]

sooooo much aura

[gilded beacon]

Most people wouldn't care about the everbloom being in SS if it wasn't because of that moment

[foggy fractal]

no ending tops dream no more shits PEAK 🤑

[gilded beacon]

I can see why that may bother some people

[spark valve]

dnm is peak one of my favorite game endings (certainly not top 2 but up there)

[foggy fractal]

😿 its cinema

I think I may have legit cried at dream no more
though tbf I was like 13 or smth

[terse warren]

Why specify top 2 and not top 3 or 5>

[gilded beacon]

I would also cry if i finished p5

[spark valve]

idk

[terse warren]

Dream no More is not p5

[spark valve]

I do think dnm isn't without its flaws (for one, the implied fate of the knight is pretty misleading) but it's a very good ending nonetheless

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think they meant being able to finish pantheon 5 ? because its difficult boss rush

[gilded beacon]

Mb

[terse warren]

The implied fate of the knight?

[spark valve]

panning to the broken shell feels a bit misleading

[terse warren]

How so though

I assume it means they're supposed to be dead along with THK

How exactly could it be misleading

[spark valve]

it just doesn't mesh super well with the mechanics of void heart where their mind should still persist

[gilded beacon]

That was my first thought after the ending, what else could mean??

But they have no mind, right?

[spark valve]

they have one

[gilded beacon]

The knight or THK?

[spark valve]

both

[foggy fractal]

are y'all still gonna be excited for acmi silksong content even after the game is out
we'll probably see some concept/cut art and ideas and devlopment stuff

[spark valve]

sure

[gilded beacon]

Yeah!, I also got hyped up bcs on one of their post I commented "I can't wait for September" jokingly and they liked it so I got exited, this was before the announcement date

I wonder what cut content we would see

[vestal swan]

It'll have to wait till I beat the game and get 137%, but yes eventually it will be cool to look at

It's like part of the lore bible having Ari's art book

[gilded beacon]

Is there like an actual Lore bible for HK?

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe like a design doc