sk-lore

[high violet]

it could retreat ffurther to the left over here

[edgy stone]

Thats the most popular tourist spot though

[midnight reef]

ahh

[raven condor]

Area is smaller than fog canyon, I ain’t goin back yo!

[midnight reef]

You know what
If I had to gues the rings are used 99% for marrow stations

The one floating in space over what is supposedly the ant arena area might be a marrow station inside it?

[high violet]

or it could have been put there by Will to fuck with us

[midnight reef]

Kinda like if there was a Stag Station inside of the Ancestral Mound

[edgy stone]

The ants dont seem as anti citadel compared to like the mantises and deepnest bugs so I thinkd it makes sense for them to have a station

[iron pendant]

Yeah I would guess a bunch of those are red herrings

[midnight reef]

The only outlier is the one in Deep Docks

The one in Hunters March at the top does make sense for a Marrow Station

[edgy stone]

I say this as their culture seems heavily indebted in dance which kinda just goes along with the capitols music focus

[midnight reef]

The one above the arena thing would make sense if theres a Marrow Station inside the arena building thing, but that assumes that the arena functions kinda like Ansestral Mound?

The only outlier as I said is the one that is positioned near the top of Deep Docks

that one is over an icon, but not a Marrow Station one

[edgy stone]

Unless this is a huge issue between the two cultures

[midnight reef]

its a bell that has fallen, it seems

Theres a ton of bells scattered elsewhere around the map, with a very similar symbol marking them

[edgy stone]

Into a river perhaps? Maybe located in the lego city

I saw fallen and my brain immediately remembered that ad

[midnight reef]

XD

Nah, there doesnt seem to be any water flowing through that part of Greymoor

Has anyone tried to do a rough comparision of what we have for Silksong to the map of Hallownest, assuming that they're roughly the same level of detail?

[edgy stone]

Wonder where the fog comes from then

[midnight reef]

The lake, to the right of it

[carmine blade]

what we talking about?

[midnight reef]

We were talking about the iron rings, and that they probably are mostly hidding Marrow Station markers

[carmine blade]

ah

[midnight reef]

Then the bell icon seen on the far left of Greymoor

[iron pendant]

So we see that location in the demo and its this bench. In the old Edge Magazine article there is a mention of "Holy" Benches that rise out of the floor, in the old demo there was a second of that style of bench that rose out of the floor. So my guess is that is one of those special benches and the mark on the map is for them

[foggy fractal]

as in size ?

[midnight reef]

Thats not where that bench is

Least, Im pretty sure it isnt

[edgy stone]

Theres a handful of art on thr map but I think we only know what 3-5 mean

[midnight reef]

A- its a entirely different icon

....thats about it, its just the wrong icon

[iron pendant]

The old demo had two of them, the other was near forge daughter, its a normal bench in the new one

[midnight reef]

oh shit no

Thats right, that is the bench Icon

[edgy stone]

The cities make sense but we also have the giant robot, ant queen carmelita, bells and the huntresss lair

[midnight reef]

IDK why its grey'd out

[midnight reef]

yeah
The issue is getting the scale correct

Because you have to assume that the level of detail is roughly the same

[iron pendant]

Well I think its for the special benches mentioned in Edge Magazine

[midnight reef]

And how do you compare that?

[edgy stone]

Someone should try their best at making a legend

[midnight reef]

yeah

fuck it, GIMP time!

[foggy fractal]

here are two that I've seen people do

[edgy stone]

I feel like we have to consider that each room is probably at like 1.5 scale compared to hallownest

[midnight reef]

My first guess was to match the maps by using the thin tunnels between rooms

Which gets this

[raven condor]

Could be near identical in size after seeing this

[edgy stone]

I feel like if we had moss mothers boss room on the the map we can use that to figure out an accurate scale

[high violet]

i think SS is just going to be a bit bigger than HK not like immensely gigantic beyond belief because also bigger =/= better it depends on how much detailing and quality goes into each room and biome

[edgy stone]

Since thats a rather small and enclosed arena we just have to find something similar in hk relative to both of the protagonists sizes and compare the the room differences on the map

[high violet]

also the map has a surprisingly large amount of horizontality for a game thats about ascending

[foggy fractal]

yeah but its probably all in the bottom of the map and its gonna taper once we go up

[high violet]

yeah i think thats a reasonable assumption

[balmy reef]

awesome comparison, thanks

[midnight reef]

if we assume that-

[raven condor]

Hornet can sprint/ HK was about descending yet it too had a more horizontal map!

[midnight reef]

which is just improbable, imo

[high violet]

yeah for sure

i think despite ascending being the main goal, youre gonna be going left and right a lot more

[balmy reef]

I mean if ascending is the goal they don't wanna blow their load so to speak

is there a better expression I can use

[high violet]

i was gonna say thats an interesting choice of expression

[edgy stone]

Main issue I have with the two games maps being the same scale are the super small hallways in pharloom for certain areas, that if we know hornets height have to be larger than what the knight could fit in

[raven condor]

I will say there are a shit ton more sheer drops in Silksong it seems

[high violet]

i love the colours theyve used for the map in Silksong

[balmy reef]

first one that came to mind 😭

[raven condor]

The ceiling zip line seems to help there

[high violet]

the one in HK looks like a lot more, misty? gloomy? idk

[balmy reef]

it feels much warmer and more saturated than HK, something I love

[midnight reef]

This just makes more sense to me- theres still multiple areas that arent on this map, like any of the citidel, or any of the Choral Forest, or that weird stone area, or that slope area

[high violet]

the one in Pharloom looks lot more grounded, yeah

[midnight reef]

so

theory time
what if this is just half the map

the right half of it, to be specific

[edgy stone]

I can see the dessert being surprisingly big

[midnight reef]

Its more likely the right 3/4s of the map, tbh

But theres least 2 areas to the right that are cut off, and a good chunk of the Moss Grotto is cut off also

[raven condor]

God I hope so.

[iron pendant]

I mean I would expect it to be a layer on top of what we see, but there are still a lot of areas we have no context for how big they are

[edgy stone]

Only issue with the desert is I dont see it going to the left really

[raven condor]

I need like 2 areas they haven’t spoiled yet

Have we seen any of the shining citadel?

[edgy stone]

We know hornet progresses through the desert by going left thats true but it also doesnt really have a location that fits on the map currently

[soft echo]

Hey I've never posted in this chat before, do I have to cover spoiler stuff or no?

[whole hawk]

Map seems to be designed in layers, like more pronounced levels of elevation

[iron pendant]

Oh I'm confident there are, like I don't think Hunter's Reach for example is an area I'm not sure we've ever seen before

[edgy stone]

Could be the desert but it seems like the entrance that hornet takes

[whole hawk]

Hunter's Reach is the ant area there's a small statue of Carmelita in the map

[midnight reef]

yeah, it seems to be the ants area, outside of the Far Fields

Turns out they're like Zero Dawns Nora, they have their sacrade grounds (the Hunters March) and the have the rest of their territory, the Far Fields lol

[edgy stone]

Hunters reach has carmelita on the map its their area

[foggy fractal]

nah all spoilers are allowed

[soft echo]

So the new character that tries to kiss Hornet (we know because of the new steam stuff) is named Nuu and is a snail. And I just find it interesting that it almost mirrors Unn who is a slug. No real mindblowing stuff. Just thought I'd put my observation out there for all the smart people to think about.

[edgy stone]

The unn and nuu thing is cool I didn't think of yet it

[raven condor]

They do seem to be writing important lore tablets, and have an inverted Unn name. I feel though it could likely just be a slug naming convention. I’m guessing it’s a slug wannabe snail, from the looks of the backpack

[midnight reef]

Heh. SO

we have Hornet in both games, we have a map from both games

[edgy stone]

Makes a lot of sense

[midnight reef]

Therefore, technically, we can measure Pharloom and Hallownest more properly

[edgy stone]

Main thing is unn seems to be asexual as shown in how shes able to create life out of nothing, but nuu immediately tries to go onto hornet

[raven condor]

Pale king be hyping up hallownest like it’s the shit. Bitch isn’t even top three, pharloom is nine times bigger and owns the silk industry. Pale king a fraud

[soft echo]

In the trailer they seem to have their shell removed (not something real snails can do, last time I checked there were no "hermit snails"), I think its on the right side of the room. Maybe they aren't a real snail. Dunno, could be looking too much into nothing.

[midnight reef]

This here is roughly hornets arena

in Greenpath

[edgy stone]

I feel like pale king probably reincarnated far faster than normal for wyrms

Because due to their mouths and massive size they're probably meant to carve the kingdoms themselves and make a huge spanding one

Pale king did not carve fucking shit

[edgy stone]

I do think you are onto something

[soft echo]

Still think its interesting though regardless

[edgy stone]

Maybe nuus story is about finding a snail for them to become their partner

[soft echo]

They would have to be pretty down bad to think Hornet is a snail

[edgy stone]

Major issue though is nuus lack of snail anything outside of eyes

People have said hermit crab

[raven condor]

And fake shell

[edgy stone]

Nuu does have limbs

[raven condor]

No claws tho

[edgy stone]

Which unn doesnt have any

[soft echo]

Truuuuuuueeeee

[raven condor]

Fuck.

[midnight reef]

700/145 ~= 5 hornets tall for the arena

[raven condor]

Theory time.

[edgy stone]

I do think hermit crab is more likely, the name is the main thing contributing to the slug theory

[soft echo]

Actually, I wasn’t even considering crabs to be in silk song before, but considering the existence of the coral coves, you could be onto something

[midnight reef]

the trouble is finding an area on the Pharloom map, with clear corrilation to Horrnet

[raven condor]

Pale king dies in wyrm form, goes into bug form.

Unn dies in Higher being form, goes into Nuu form and relocates to Pharloom.

I’m a goddamn genius.

[edgy stone]

the eyes are more akin to a hermit crabs as well

[soft echo]

That would be pretty cool, but man that would really spell a grim future for green path.

[whole hawk]

I remember TC saying Greymoor is supposed to be one of the biggest areas they've ever made. How does that pan out with the map comparisons earlier?

[edgy stone]

nuu is obviously a weird deformed homunculus creature that deserves to die but it does seem to be based on a hermit crab

[soft echo]

Oh damn, maybe that’s why her call to her creations got weaker because she was preparing to reincarnate or maybe she was just naturally dying somehow.

[raven condor]

Wasn’t it already diminishing when we got there in hollowknight. Godseeker even says shit is falling apart.

[soft echo]

Yeah, that’s what I mean in this message

[edgy stone]

take a demo area from bonebottom

we have the map for it now and it has some smaller rooms

[raven condor]

Also, a stretch, but she gives us a charm, the creation of a dying bugs wish in many cases, could be her farewell to the world.

[soft echo]

Why Unns call grew weaker is one of Hollow Knights, lesser known, but still strange unsolved mysteries. Maybe the existence of Nuu is the answer

[ionic quarry]

Maybe Hornet has the ideal body for a snail, since it’s something the real snails can never achieve thus establishing unrealistic beauty standards.

[soft echo]

Man, I freaking love Team Cherry, we have started theory crafting and formed a possible answer to a big mystery in Hollow Knight just based on a character design and a name. Call it glazing or whatever but this is freaking awesome.

[midnight reef]

hm

this math isnt mathing

the bell room the map shot starts in is some 4.5 hornets tall

[edgy stone]

what room in particular?

[carmine blade]

oh no

Im seeing hornet math happening.

[midnight reef]

Its not using that bullshit 30 yard through

[carmine blade]

oh hell no

[midnight reef]

just hornets height

Hornet in Hollow Knight is likely the same size in Silksong

[midnight reef]

https://youtu.be/6XGeJwsUP9c?t=30 this one

[soft echo]

Anything but the metric system

[edgy stone]

youre taking her full model and not her sitting one right?

[carmine blade]

Pharloom is 0.23 football fields tall

[midnight reef]

Yeah, roughly

theres so many estimations are rounding errors here

[high violet]

i

i'd say not to bother too much about trying to figure out the height of the map through hornet or through other means, it isn't 1:1 at all and theres a lot of areas that dont match up, especially in more complex areas

[midnight reef]

its just a stupid thing to do for fun

[high violet]

yeah its fun

[carmine blade]

all I can say is good luck and god speed

[midnight reef]

but basically what Im getting is the height of the bell room is 4.5 hornets tall, and the arena in Greenpath is 5.1 hornets tall

[edgy stone]

I truly dont believe hollow knight and silksong share the same map to area ratio

[midnight reef]

and that seems... really wrong

[austere wren]

Judging by how the water drops in hollow Knight we can measure it's fall speed and impact, doing all of this technically makes Hornet likely two 4 year olds and 1/3 tall.

Is it likely they took into consideration of City of Tears's "rain?" No, but it is the only real thing we have of her height as of now.

[edgy stone]

do hollow knight and silksong contain the same zoom on the camera?

[austere wren]

Hornet is a bit more zoomed out I believe.

[edgy stone]

that makes it harder

I mean wait isnt that also considerable in the math?

hornet will be smaller in silksong if the camera is more zoomed out, making it so their ratios arent 1/1

[midnight reef]

But hornets height will be the same between herself

[austere wren]

Not necessarily.

Zoom doesn't affect the height.

The distance just makes things look bigger or smaller.

[midnight reef]

we know that in all likelyhood hornet hasnt grown or shrunk a considerable amount between Silksong and between Hollow Knight

Therefore making her height a somewhat passable messuring stick

[austere wren]

Also, the zoom changes on rooms sometimes.

[soft echo]

Can't believe all these horrible unrealistic beauty standards that Big Snail has been propagating. Tsk tsk tsk.

[high violet]

also i would like to add that this is the zoomed out map, so there are also sections we literally cant see to make any accurate judgement

so you should probably consider that when trying to figure it out

[midnight reef]

oaky my assumed Hornets height was roughly right

for the Silksong side of the comparision

[raven condor]

Post I made on Silksong, think this covers it?

[midnight reef]

okay, so ~150 percent scale up from what was suggested earlier is wrong

looks more to be a 1.25% larger from my original metric of the room transition

[edgy stone]

1.25% or 50% larger

[soft echo]

Where did you make this post?

[edgy stone]

because 1.25% is beyond negligible

[midnight reef]

sorry im saying alot of stupid shit that doesnt make sense

[midnight reef]

from this

[edgy stone]

its fine, are we doing % multiplicative or adding

[midnight reef]

to this

I scaled pharloom by 1.5x

[edgy stone]

because 150% addition is more than 150% multiplicative

[midnight reef]

it looks like a roughly more accurate scaling factor is 1.25, as at 1.5X the height of the bell room would've been the same as the height of the Hornet 1 Arena

[raven condor]

R/silksong

[edgy stone]

okay a 1.25% multiplicative factor makes sense

its in the range I thought possible, I just had a feeling it was larger than hallownest but not double yknow

[midnight reef]

which makes it roughly this

roughly
I rounded so fucking much for the sake of convience and make a ton of assumptions

[edgy stone]

okay yeah that makes sense and greymore would dwarf deepnest

[raven condor]

Try matching up bench pins from the two games?

[midnight reef]

nah, not a firm thing that we know would be the same size

[raven condor]

So true

[edgy stone]

can you overlap greymoore and deepnest?

[raven condor]

No shot the marrow is almost the size of city of tears

[midnight reef]

if I overlap them it'd become an unintelligable mess

[edgy stone]

thats fine

from the look of it greymoore is certainly larger

[midnight reef]

just keep in mind that this is an extremely rough approximation, I assume someone with more paticence can do far far better than I can

[soft echo]

Hey would it be alright if you credited me in the comments, sorry I don't want to sound like a jerk, just "By the way this idea came from a user named Sin-Jay" that's really all I want.

[midnight reef]

on par in size, not larger

[soft echo]

Thank you though for everyone that found my observation interesting, this was the first time I've done something like this and its been super cool

[raven condor]

Unn, momento! I’m on it

[soft echo]

Thank you

[minor lily]

hii yall

[quiet briar]

Just sm I noticed

[raven condor]

Fragile tools return. Letssssss gooooo

[runic musk]

Yknow there is one thing I noticed looking at some of the demo gameplay stuff

There seems to be some attacks that lock you in place for double damage

[midnight reef]

If someone wants to pick up where I left off, feel free

[soft echo]

I always found it interesting that the luma flies choose to stay within the shell despite them being able to fly away whenever they want

[runic musk]

Unless the user was just straight up not moving I believe I saw the startup for Laces rapid jab count as a hit with the user stuck in the middle then getting hit again

[quiet briar]

They had their legs spiritually eaten

[quiet briar]

Dark souls ahh grab attacks

[runic musk]

If I'm right though that'll be interesting seeing some attacks lock you in place.

[quiet briar]

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised it adds more to dodging attacks vs tanking damage for hits

[raven condor]

We WILL be eaten by bog tyrant.

[runic musk]

welcome back, Kwolok

[raven condor]

Real.

[lethal burrow]

I like how absolutely every single person prefers the name for of bones and exclusively uses that instead of bone bottom because we all agree it sounds cooler

[raven condor]

Bone bottom is a town, “forest of bones” is a separate area is it not?

[quiet briar]

This makes so much sense

[lethal burrow]

I think I remember it being stated somewhere that the forest of bones as an area was just renamed "bone bottom"

[high violet]

im pretty sure Nuu is this games Zote, and unlike Zote who is in love with himself, Nuu is in love with Hornet and theres probably gonna be some ridiciulous situations involving Nuu and Hornet having to save them

[raven condor]

Well it’s a lava area, and bonebottom is in moss grotto, so I would assume a separation. Bone bottom is likely the first camp we see in the new trailer.

[carmine blade]

isnt bonebottom the starting town

[raven condor]

Nahhhh

[high violet]

this is just my current headcanon because i think its funny

[raven condor]

Oh it is fo sho funny

[high violet]

and almost entirely based off the singular scene and dialogue we got of them

[raven condor]

“She saved me again!” “She must love me!”

[high violet]

also everyone has assumed "he" for Nuu, where did we get the reference for them from?

cuz i have no idea if its a dude or not

[raven condor]

It’s obviously unn part 2 soooo I’m thinking perhaps it’s a lady.

[real crater]

Even the description for the nuu trading card doesn't refer to nuu at all as a he

[high violet]

yeah same with Phantom lol but a lot of people call them he as well lol

[raven condor]

Alsooooo suuuuper weak theory, but salubra kisses for a blessing, and perhaps Nuu, having some remnants of power is trying to bless hornet, but she merely doesn’t know this and bitch slaps them.

[high violet]

but ive just been using they for all the characters that we arent sure of yet because well, we havent got anything official for them yet so its just easier to use they for me lol

[real crater]

I have heard people call phantom a they

Isn't that what started the phantom is a shapeshifter theory

[high violet]

im pretty sure Phantom is like explicitly not exactly gendered, especially with their referral as a "creature"

[raven condor]

Very void creature to me

[real crater]

Yeah phantom is called a creature I think phantom is just that a ghost maybe one of the fallen king

[high violet]

not in a gender concept kind of way but moreso in a "what the fuck is Phantom" kind of way

[real crater]

Yeah the concept of phantom is so alien to pharoomlians that they call it a creature

[high violet]

im very curious to know the lore behind the Deviant Art OC

[edgy stone]

Phantom seems much more like a princess type I feel like if they are dead royalty

I dont swe like male weirdly when I view them

[real crater]

I agree the spikes on the head looks like a crown

[high violet]

they look very distinct to the other bugs we've seenin Pharloom so far

[edgy stone]

Maybe its because they're so strongly based on hornet

[high violet]

like they have like two tails or some shit iirc

kinda looks like a furry hollow knight edgy OC

[real crater]

Those aren't tails just the part of the dress that Phantom is wearing

[high violet]

yeh

[raven condor]

Lace gets turned to hornets side, and Phantom kills lace for her betrayal. Lore bomb.

[raven condor]

It should look better in game

[high violet]

oh i dont mean that in a bad way at all lol

just a goofy descriptor for Phantom

[edgy stone]

My main issue with both phantom and lace herself are they're rather plain

[real crater]

All we have is a steamdb trading card and quality of that is not good

[high violet]

yeah

i think their designs are simple in colour but i dont think that makes it plain

[raven condor]

Mofo hasn’t even played the goddamn game yet smh

[real crater]

Man I love that silksong has a option to toggle hud off gonna make taking ss so much easier

[carmine blade]

does it?

[runic musk]

Because 'he' tends to be the default for a lot of people if smths unknown

[real crater]

We saw it in the demo

[carmine blade]

Oh?

[runic musk]

Even I sometimes default to it or mix of 'they'. Really instinctual if its unknown.

[edgy stone]

Weve seen a lot of lave okay

[carmine blade]

I need to watch more demo videos

[real crater]

There was a ss of that on x lemme find it rq

[edgy stone]

I dont like how she looks like a flat texture

[carmine blade]

preesh

[high violet]

yeah idrc i just personally use they because its easier to switch up to using the proper referral to later for me

[edgy stone]

Hornet has nice desigj elements like her cloaks wrinkles

Lace is just white with a little blacked out face

[runic musk]

How many times you think we'll be fighting Lace by the looks of it at least twice

[edgy stone]

And from what we have seen phantom seems to face thr dame exact issue of no texture

[quartz salmon]

3 times the golden rule but i think we'll be talking to her a lot more

[runic musk]

I mean we fight Hornet twice and Lace to me looks to be the equivalent

[high violet]

now imagine the following: we fight lace in every biome and players are like waht the hell

walking through a random ass hallway

BOOM! LACE!

[real crater]

Don't we fight lace in the lava area and the flower area

[runic musk]

Yea and I acknowledged that

[quartz salmon]

that actually is interesting

they could do that with the steel assasins

[edgy stone]

The game better not have no damn sneaking section

[quartz salmon]

they just ambush you in open areas

[runic musk]

all I hear is free money whatever its called in Silksong. Remember the Sheikah assassins?

[real crater]

Here is hud toggle option

[high violet]

what is backer credits

like in the end credits of teh game or at the start or somethign

[real crater]

Like show u name of backers I guess?

[quartz salmon]

ok but what if they're like, actually challenging

[runic musk]

Just shows the names of backers i'd assume, i'd probably turn it off because I do not give a damn for credits and want it shorter lmao

[quartz salmon]

they show you the names of the people that payed on kickstarter

[high violet]

i know that much, i just mean where, at the start of the game, end? or do we not know

[runic musk]

I am annoyed when I have to sit through long credits unless the I really enjoyed the game to take the step back for a bit.

[high violet]

ah at the end

[quartz salmon]

probably at the start while youre playing

[high violet]

oh

[edgy stone]

As a backer I am going to sue for not properly showing my contribution to everyone on this god given green earth

[quartz salmon]

your name will be etched on the final bosses forhead

[edgy stone]

I did not pay 1.50£ for anything less

[real crater]

Did u recieve silksong key already or no

[quartz salmon]

for that monstrous contribution i dont think so

[carmine blade]

That is awesome

[real crater]

It is

[carmine blade]

Playing the whole game hudless

[runic musk]

HUDless run just know what basic math is you'll be fineee

[real crater]

And these aren't even all the settings I am very excited for the new silksong setting

[runic musk]

My cat almost headbutted me jumping onto my bed

[lethal burrow]

The gended child

[real crater]

Health and silk bar are also considered hud

[runic musk]

Well... Yea? Thats why I said know basic math lo

[high violet]

the genderen't child

[real crater]

The child rejected by the ghost and ghoulies so became a phantom

[high violet]

almost postedf like 100 lines of SQL code into this chat by accident

whoops

[quartz salmon]

that would have certainly enriched the conversation

[lethal burrow]

Enrichment

[quartz salmon]

thats the word i used yeah

[edgy stone]

Silksongs hud does seem a bit more oppressive than hollow knights

Hollow knights remained pretty plain which I think is a good thing

[runic musk]

Can someone show a screenshot of what the HUD looks again

[edgy stone]

Theres just more things on the hud to manage now, its not awful or nothing but does take up more space than hollow knights

[high violet]

this might be a unpopualr opinion but i actually like having things in my hud, makes me feel more powered up lol

[edgy stone]

Itd be cool if hornet can hain a herrah mask of sorts

[real crater]

I mean the only thing extra are the tools

[edgy stone]

Silk spool as well

It took over soul but there are like 2 segments to it now

[runic musk]

M, dunno how I feel bout it just seems fine.

[carmine blade]

As far as huds go. Silksongs is pretty clean

[edgy stone]

Like a final mask or something to max hornets hp

Call the powerup motherlylove or some bullshit

[raven condor]

Real.

[runic musk]

I'm just intrigued about the damaged mask at the left end of the health bar

[high violet]

i definitely think the hud is intentionally made the way it is for various elements of the game to work out cleanly

[edgy stone]

Seems to be some passive gained from the ants

[shy magnet]

ss lore

this channel is so peak man

[high violet]

it hasnt become hk-lore yet thank goodness

[edgy stone]

Like a tool that grants her a mask that takes 2 hits or some effect

[high violet]

we're all infants in here still

[shy magnet]

if that happens i will be deeply saddened

[runic musk]

Rn this channels the best way to talk about speculation about both story and gameplay without it derailing every 2 minutes

[edgy stone]

Maybe it makes hornet invulnerable after taking lethal damage for 5 seconds or something

[real crater]

Just give it 2 weeks after skong release

[edgy stone]

Wonder how ss will handle summons

[sacred grove]

one thing i noticed from the trailer is they havent shown any outside parts yet

[edgy stone]

They were almost completely useless in hollow knight, theyre probably not even in silksong

[real crater]

Hopefully by removing them from the game

[sacred grove]

which makes me wonder, is the sun also gone in silksong or is it only gone for hallownest

like since there are multiple void creatures i guess it would make since that radiance is just one instantation of a light creature?

[real crater]

Wdym the sun the entirety ofhk takes place underground

[sacred grove]

Dirtmouth:

[real crater]

Dirtmouth is underground

[sacred grove]

No

[real crater]

U can't disagree with facts

[runic musk]

Didnt a trailer show Hornet tossing a small robot as a summon

[raven condor]

Honestly, probably well, cogflys seem like they have solved the glowing womb problem, merely by saying “here, have 16 of them” when they are out they are out. No dealing with soul drain

[sacred grove]

the stag dialogue for dirtmouth he says it's the surface

[runic musk]

you could argue 'surface' is relative to Hallownest

[runic musk]

Walk up to a boss with 20 flies by your side give them the Isaac treatment

[sacred grove]

i guess

i still think that it makes sense since you see large cliffs but no supported ceiling

[runic musk]

Though if we're crafting our own tools this time around I really hope they won't be obnoxious to maintain

[sacred grove]

40 flies when you have ipecac 😍

[raven condor]

Fr crafting is so hit or miss

[sacred grove]

i wonder if silksong will be completely broken balancing wise because of crafting

[raven condor]

Or crest or tools

[runic musk]

Probably will be

If the offensive options are many 1-2 are bound to perform noticeably better

[raven condor]

Moral of the story Silksong will probably balance about as well as HK and for that we should be thankful

[sacred grove]

i wonder what pharloom's sun god thing would be named

[quartz salmon]

well its gonna be a god with silk and maybe even song

[edgy stone]

Pharloom should be ruled by like a devil

Hallownest an underground kingdom was ruled by the sun while pharloom an expanding kingdom is ruled by something from the depths of hell

[sacred grove]

huge tarantula boss

[real crater]

We don't know yet that pharloom would be on the surface

[sacred grove]

also hallownest wasnt really a kingdom in the radiance days it was just wild beasts

[raven condor]

Ah yes, because hollowknight was actually called Infection Light

My guess is that the Silksong will be what unbinds the kingdom from its curse

[quartz salmon]

the main visual motif of the kingdom is big spools of silk and yarn balls but also harps bells and chimes + most enemies display string pulling upwards when they die so its a safe bet to say its some sort of... silksong god

[sacred grove]

"ascend to the peak of a haunted kingdom"

i think there's ghosts

[quartz salmon]

giant ghost spider that plays music

[sacred grove]

like it'll probably have some terrible backstory like hollow knight but it wouldnt be post apocalyptic

the undead will probably be more in the generic sense not in the hk sense, idk

[raven condor]

I’m thinking the fake final boss (playing a similar role to the hollowknight) will be a puppeteer that pulls the strings, however something greater is probably commanding it. (Similar to the radiance)

[quartz salmon]

ive though about the grand puppetmaster thing too

idk if theyd go for the whole fake final boss and real god hidden boss again

[runic musk]

They probably will

[raven condor]

Seems like some heavy boss parallels in this game, so it could be likely. Lace and hornet, mantis lords and the twin robots, THK and the puppeteer?

Moss mother gruz mother

[runic musk]

The 2 bots look interesting to me though but I sincerely hope the attacks they shown isnt all they got lol

Going across borders of the screen and occasional diagonals with a center slash

[quartz salmon]

Well yeah they definately have more attacks

I bet if you kill one the other gets enraged

[wanton eagle]

The duo boss we've seen looks significantly different to Mantis Lords and it is also clearly much later on than Mantis Lords were in Hollow Knight.

Lace is a "Hornet equivalent" but that's only because we've seen her twice in the trailer, and we know the first fight with her is roughly around the stage of the game we assume to be the equivalent of green path. We're making a lot of assumptions with little to no information

[lunar crest]

The duo boss reminds me of a boss I fought in a different game when I was like 9

[pure belfry]

As a believer that Silksong a sequel, I think this line from the Forge Daughter is some small evidence towards that. It implies Hornet's sting shard is a tool of Hornet's conception, as opposed to the Magma Bell which does originate in Pharloom. I believe this implies Hornet has used the sting shards before during her time in Hallownest perhaps.

A small line ik but could point be used to supplement more significant evidence of Silksong being a sequel.

[real crater]

Or maybe hornet used it before in this game the prequel delulu train is still going

[pure belfry]

One reason I believe Silksong is a sequel is we know Hornet was born in Hallownest. She also doesn't look any different from her Hollow Knight design. Nothing implies she is younger. For it to be a prequel, some time shortly before Hollow Knight she would have had to be captured, gone on her whole adventure in Pharloom, and returned across the wasteland to Hallownest. I just find it hard to believe she would find her way back across the wasteland from Pharloom to Hallownest.

[stray fog]

I believe silksong is a sequel
(don't ask me why because I have no reason)

[real crater]

We don't know how long it took between hornets birth and her return to hollownest

It could be 20 years or 200 years

[pure belfry]

Hornet was born in Hallownest I think. There would be no time between her birth and returning to Hallownest because she was born there.

There would be time between her capture and her leaving Pharloom to return home

[real crater]

I meant return to hallownest near the beginning to hk didn't hornet return from somewhere

She was born in hallownest took some training went away and came back

[pure belfry]

I did not know this

[stray fog]

Hornet was already in hallownest when quirrel arrived

And quirrel arrived around the same time as the knight because the failing vessel drew them both to hallownest

[stray fog]

According to the quirrel comic

[pallid iron]

Another argument for the sequel could be that it's hinted that we're going to find out more about void and i think it would be just weird to put these events before hk

Hornet in hk knows so little about void and just echoes what pk most likely told her

[real crater]

I mean its 99% a sequel but I really want it to be a prequel

[pure belfry]

However I still think it unlikely that Hornet would manage to find her way across the wastes from Pharloom. She was captured and taken to Pharloom. She did not travel there herself. She would have a hard time making it across the wastes. Unless being a Pale being keeps her from losing her mind in the wastes it would be extremely difficult to make it back to Hallownest

[stray fog]

I think we might get an explanation for the delicate flower ending, so I'm hoping its a sequel

[pure belfry]

Btw is Hornet considered a Pale Being? She's the daughter of the Pale King and Herrah.

Idk how one becomes a Pale Being

[pallid iron]

Pure vessel is described as pale so it's just an inherited trait she is most likely

[pure belfry]

So then assuming she can keep her mind in the wastes it is plausible she could travel from Pharloom to Hallownest, albeit unlikely. She might not know the route

[pallid iron]

I really don't think Hornet would lose her mind in the wastes regardless considering common bugs like Cornifer have travelled them before and they're seem just fine

[real crater]

Maybe we can assume she is a higher being as a half siblings to the knight

[pallid iron]

I think what pk did is give mind to bugs that didn't have one at the beginning, but a higher being is not required for sentient bugs to exist. Spiders came to Hallownest before PK, for example

[pure belfry]

Plus, Hallownest is dead. Why would Hornet travel from Pharloom back to a dead kingdom? Would she not rather stay in Pharloom after saving it since it is seemingly not dead? There are multiple towns there, in Pharloom itself.

[calm crypt]

Confirmed prequel btw

[stray fog]

Didn't she consider it her duty to protect hallownest

[wanton eagle]

But what would she even be protecting?

[haughty tide]

is there a chance that ghost show up in ss?

[wanton eagle]

No

[stray fog]

In the quirell comic she initially doesn't let quirrel enter hallownest

[pure belfry]

I'm saying Hallownest is dead after the events of Hollow Knight. There is nothing left for Hornet there. She would stay in Pharloom

[stray fog]

She also protects the king's brand

[wanton eagle]

Yeah ok I guess that makes sense

[stray fog]

I think the returning to hallownest argument was for a prequel

[pallid iron]

well it's gone tho

[pure belfry]

I was saying it's unlikely she would return to Hallownest or even be capable of it.

[runic musk]

Ghosts responsibility lies purely in Hollownest I see no reason as to why they'd show up in Pharloom unless captured for whatever reason

[stray fog]

The messages I sent were considering that she would return to hallownest after silksong and before hollow knight

[pallid iron]

I don't see the reason for her to return post-hk ending. There's nothing left to protect or to rebuild.

[runic musk]

I mean theres still some life.

[pallid iron]

Like what?

[runic musk]

Dirtmouth just existing

That guy you sell Relics to, etc etc

[stray fog]

Dirtmouth doesn't require Hornet

[pallid iron]

It's like 10 people and half of them aren't even native to Hallownest

[pure belfry]

She "knew what the Knight would try to do" when she first encounters us and is protecting the kingdom from us. Later she changes her mind and decides to help us instead, implying she sees no further purpose in protecting the seals, the Hollow Knight, or perpetuating the cycle

[digital light]

I wonder if we'll see some characters from Dirtmouth that moved to Pharloom. But maybe they can't because they would lose their free will and thought?

[pure belfry]

Her helping us is her deciding she has no more purpose in stopping us, in "protecting" the kingdom. There's no reason to keep the Hollow Knight sealed anymore when the whole kingdom is dead and abandoned anyway

[runic musk]

I personally doubt we'd see any of them show up

[pallid iron]

Corni, Iselda, Zote were travellers from beyond the wastes, so not impossible but probably not

[digital light]

Yeah at most it would be Mr Mushroom as a running gag

[pure belfry]

A strong theme of HK was actually that nothing lasts forever and I think that was Hornet's arc. She had to reach that conclusion and allow the knight to break the seals

That's why she would not return.

Arguments aside, do you think Silksong will actually give us a clear, definitive answer to the prequel or sequel question or will it be ambiguous?

[runic musk]

Ambiguous

still lines up with any ending in HK being canon, just not telling if the events are before or after it.

[pure belfry]

I personally would like to see a clear answer but if the story remains mostly disconnected from HK I can see it being ambiguous

Maybe there is an actual answer but it's hidden in vague lore the community will have to interpret

[real crater]

If they reference any event related to hk we will know which has 5% chance of happening

[viscid ridge]

Does anyone have any idea what that one tab could be between the map and the tools, it looks like the ball of silk thats seen all across the game but what could be in that tab?

[real crater]

Might be quests

[viscid ridge]

Cause the only other thing i thought of is the bestiary, but i dont see how it relates to the ball of silk?

[viscid ridge]

Maybe?

[real crater]

Or like something related to weaver

[open moat]

quests prolly

[real crater]

We just don't know enough for this

[real crater]

Yeah but quests don't look like a ball of silk

[open moat]

my guess is that if that icon represents pharloom then it might aswell just tangentially be used for quests for it's residents

[viscid ridge]

Might but i just cant see what quests have to do with the silk ball, i think quests will maybe be tracked on the map, similar to what happens when you find the dreamer shrine and fountain

[viscid ridge]

Thats a good point

[open moat]

it's just a guess, for all we know that could be a cooking menu and we'd be none the wiser

[opal beacon]

Inventory < crest < quests < map

[high violet]

yea i reckon its quests

[real crater]

I want it to be something we haven't seen yet maybe a specific weaver based page

[lapis creek]

one thing i rarely see people bring up is that tc didn't just say all hk endings are canon, they said they don't believe in true endings

[real crater]

Prob because it's old lore

[lapis creek]

which means if hornet dies or is substantially changed or remains in pharloom in one of the endings it can't be a prequel without violating this philosophy

unless we can think of ways to reverse these events

[real crater]

Hmm prince of persia crossover perhaps

[wanton eagle]

It could potentially be a thing of like "this game is a sequel to these endings but the other endings are also real just didn't happen for this world"

[lapis creek]

yeah i hope they commit to dnm if anything

[amber bridge]

So would it go similar to FNAF:SB and it‘s sequel Ruins, if SS is a sequel. As in how all endings in SB are respected but one ending afaik leads to Ruins.

Frankly even the question of SS being a sequel is still up for airs and sources are confusing at best. Few say it is, others say it‘s unconfirmed etc.

[vestal swan]

Everbooom:

It being a sequel isn't really up in the air people just like to be contrary

[lapis creek]

you can still confirm what delicate flowers do

[molten edge]

They should commit to Sealed Siblings, funniest possible ending to canonize

[vestal swan]

They should commit to a steel soul death

Where hornet kills TK

[molten edge]

My hope is that the canon outcome is the one in which Zote isn’t saved so people can stop making jokes about him

Actually wait that probably wouldn’t change that

[vestal swan]

Yeah I want him to be dead, I want a new joke character if they're going to do that again

[real crater]

Isn't nuu the new joke character?

[lapis creek]

what if phantom is just the zote of hornet

[vestal swan]

They don't even look similar

[spark valve]

Too competent

[vestal swan]

Zornet tho

[lapis creek]

the original trading card for false knight says that it keeps its terrifying true face hidden

honestly there could just be layers to this

[spark valve]

True

[lapis creek]

i think there could be a way for them to play just right into the edginess of phantom to make fun of them as the void hornet oc that they are

but it's a delicate balance to strike

[spark valve]

That’s an option

[lapis creek]

nuu is more likely to be the comedic relief

[real crater]

Why not 2 comedic relief

[heady thorn]

It's prolly prequel

[spark valve]

not really no

[real crater]

But the delusion train compels u think it's a prequel

[spark valve]

blowing up the tracks

[terse wadi]

it's a sequel

[real crater]

Most probably yeah but I think they might not even address hk

[terse wadi]

I will make Nuu kiss you if you say it's a prequel

[terse wadi]

probably not

[real crater]

I see no reason to bring up hallownest

Even then only most basic things that relate to hornet and are pre hk

[green charm]

Itsaprequelitsaprequelitsaprequel

[real crater]

English pls

[green charm]

(It’s not, I just want to kiss Nuu)

[spark valve]

they don't have to add anything more than we've already seen to make sequel realistically the more valid option

[real crater]

I meant more like ingame lore that tells us this like "we got rid of the infection in hallownest"

Also just the fact that tc talked about the endings of hk tell us it's a sequel

[spark valve]

they probably won't do shit like that but that doesn't really matter that much

[real crater]

That's what I am saying

[spark valve]

well not inherently

[real crater]

Good indication but yeah not confirmed

[eternal gazelle]

The things that Hornet is most likely to want to talk about are divorced from the events of the first game anyway

The infection isn't really relevant to what's going on in pharloom, but her past with the weavers probably will be

[strong summit]

Seems fair.

[green charm]

I’m glad we’ll likely get more weaver lore
They’re one of my favorite parts of the first game, lore-wise

[pallid iron]

I hope that the events of hk will be mentioned at least loosely, they might be since the void was teased to appear in ss.

[real crater]

I love more scary spider lore for my bug game

[eternal gazelle]

It's possible for the knight to never even unseal the abyss before ending the game, so as far as silksong is concerned the void might as well not exist in hallownest

[rocky flare]

i feel like given silksong is a sequel hornet will at least mention the events of hk to some of her allies

[green charm]

The release date screen was not a tease

It was just a thematic tie-in to HK’s trailer

[pallid iron]

Why would tc include it then? And one of silksong badges on steamis an arcane egg

[terse wadi]

Black particles is the amogus of the HK community not every black particle is void

[pallid iron]

I disagre but ok

[eternal gazelle]

Let's not try to definitively decide if void is appearing in silksong 2 weeks before it comes out

[green charm]

Fair

[eternal gazelle]

It doesn't matter if it will be, it's been introduced as a possibility

[terse wadi]

Void is in SS because I'm empty/j

[real crater]

And full of regret

[spark valve]

it's not void it's schmoid

[eternal gazelle]

It's grey prince gas

[lapis creek]

those ones are. you can debate their significance but that was clearly meant to be void

[terse wadi]

It's actually Loid

[terse wadi]

I was speaking generally

Anyways

We don't know how far the void stretches

It might be under other kingdoms

[spark valve]

could be

[graceful ruin]

I always thought of the abyss as like the core of the world

[high violet]

wait what the heck its you, i remember you from all the back in 2020 lmao in ss-discussion

you definitely wont remember me tho

the name transported me back to 2020 lol

[terse wadi]

I am omnipresent

[graceful ruin]

When are you, pk

[terse wadi]

hm?

[spark valve]

damn you spent a while just lurking then

[real crater]

5 years Is not that long tbh

[high violet]

im a strange person now but i was a much stranger person in 2020

[spark valve]

negative character growth

[real crater]

The best kind

[high violet]

nah in 2020 it was in the cringe way

its still cringe now i just embrace it

[dawn stratus]

Hornet is void confirmed????

[real crater]

Stop it get some lore knowledge

[terse wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/watcher-interfere-watcher-will-not-interfere-watcher-what-if-interfere-gif-24268184

Anyways

how do you think hovering will fuck with spacing in difficult voss fights

[real crater]

Will silksong have a marvel crossover

[spark valve]

I mean it's just a tiny bit more control of vertical positioning though since double jump is in the game (😔) it's less cool

[real crater]

Air stall will make boss fights easier imo

[eternal gazelle]

maybe a bit but there aren't many instances in HK where air-stalling was useful in combat

[terse wadi]

^

[spark valve]

you have so many more substantial ways to stay in the air

[terse wadi]

I feel you'd get clipped for air stalling in some of the later fights depending on the attack

[real crater]

But silksong is a different game I don't see a world where tc doesn't account air stall into silksong bosses

[eternal gazelle]

like you can do it with spells but the stalling is almost always secondary to dealing damage and therefore dashing was always the way to go

[spark valve]

I feel like for it to make a difference given that you have pogo, grapple, and double jump those attacks would have to be unreasonably punishing

[eternal gazelle]

and yeah, it being part of the moveset does mean it can be incorporated into attacks in cool ways

[real crater]

I meant for more casual players but yeah spell stall and pogos are better

[eternal gazelle]

I think there's gonna be a middle ground where you're expected to have stall but not double jump and some bosses will be built around that dynamic

[spark valve]

I guess

[eternal gazelle]

like how you can technically walljump to get over white defender's shockwaves but realistically most people have shade dash by that point

[real crater]

Bo path of teal lotus did float mechanic very well but it's boss fight were more set pieces on the background

[terse wadi]

You can double jump too, if you have it

[eternal gazelle]

yeah

[spark valve]

I was more excited for glide before double jump was shown

[foggy fractal]

I wonder how they will gatekeep areas like what types of upgrades are needed to access them

[real crater]

A high ledge is a classic

[vestal swan]

A giant chasm were the only option is floating across is probably going to be one

And then a parkour section of enemies you need to jump across with the like lock on Pogo

[real crater]

Wait can u pogo ur cocoon

[foggy fractal]

true true

[terse wadi]

well, you have to smack it to break it

So probably

[real crater]

Cocoon skips baby

[foggy fractal]

maybe that shot of Hornet traveling really fast up with silk in the coral area could be similar to cdash ?

[real crater]

Doesn't hornet have a grapple

[eternal gazelle]

not in that direction

[foggy fractal]

not that fast or over that big of a distance either

its a different abilitiy altogether or could be tied to some sort of location specific action ?

[real crater]

It's probably like a elevator

[eternal gazelle]

great wirebug looking ass

[spark valve]

Given what we see in far fields it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a fixed location thing

[terse wadi]

Lmao

[real crater]

What does that mean

[terse wadi]

Nice MHRS reference

[spark valve]

Great wirebugs are a thing in monster hunter rise which let you move around the map

[real crater]

Oh ok so like a bell beast

[spark valve]

More like a living jump pad

[real crater]

Oh I didn't want to know that sounds cursed

[spark valve]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-hunter-rise-flip-gif-24529964

Those but way further and fixed

[carmine blade]

SS is just a MH game

[spark valve]

But without wyverns (unplayable and bad)

[carmine blade]

but what if ss has wyverns?

[spark valve]

Then it might be peak

[real crater]

If ss doens't have wyverns we can just mod it in

[terse wadi]

Uhm Ackthully that's just a wirebug not a great wire bug 🤓

[spark valve]

reading

[terse wadi]

Reading is not an armour skill

[real crater]

U don't need to read to game

[sinful nimbus]

i miss wirebugs 😔

and my dog

[terse wadi]

I used dog early on but Palico still better for hunting

I miss everyone having their cat or dog in a hunt though

[spark valve]

seikrets my beloved

[terse wadi]

Seikrets are fun too

I have a Phoenix Seikret

But we're getting too off topic

Throw this looney in the truck

[real crater]

The prequel delusion train will accept him

[vestal swan]

🚪 👈

[terse wadi]

Fine, Looney "train"

[pseudo lily]

Damn. Silksong is mid.

[whole hawk]

Whats the speculation on the trailer map size so far? Only a third of pharloom?

[terse wadi]

The size of a map

[sinful nimbus]

Too large

why on earth did they put that in the trailer 🙏

[vestal swan]

For the people that worried that what they had shown was most of the game

[faint pelican]

probably less than a third

just from counting benches

[spark valve]

it's also all areas we'd already seen in a configuration we already knew

but still it was a strange decision to put that much of the map in, oh well

[runic musk]

I'm expecting it to be at least a third of the map, if its half or even less then I dunno how to feel lol.

[faint pelican]

there's like, fourteen? fifteen? benches shown on the map

hk has 50ish

[whole hawk]

To be fair, the original HK trailer had an absurd map reveal too. Like it had Deepnest all the way to the Hive in it.

[terse wadi]

Kinda felt like they had to

[sinful nimbus]

Who tf watched the hk trailers

[carmine blade]

the hk trailers basically shows off the entire base game

[terse wadi]

HK was a Kickstarter game, gotta make it look appealikng

[spark valve]

if they really wanted to do a panning map shot they at least picked a good place to do it

and can't deny it was effective at making people think the game will be massive

[faint pelican]

it's definitely hard to get a sense of how big each of the areas is without actually playing the game

[whole hawk]

That said, the coral area, the judge/desert area, and the entirety of the citadel/gilded city is nowhere in this trailer.

[spark valve]

to an extent but there's not zero context since the deep docks are there

[eternal gazelle]

tbh showing the entire hallownest map would tell you almost nothing about the actual progression

[spark valve]

that is true

[carmine blade]

or whats in those areas

[eternal gazelle]

yep

[spark valve]

it also didn't actually show any ends of the world so you still don't know whether there are areas or not to the edges of anything

well at least you don't know that there isn't

[faint pelican]

I mean notably the map they show is very flat

[whole hawk]

And if we're being honest here, TC is DEFINITELY hiding something related to the Void and whatever the Steel faction is. Feels like a midgane twist waiting to happen.

[faint pelican]

and the hook of the game is "ascending to the top of the kingdom"

[sinful nimbus]

Ew void

[spark valve]

sure, it's a horizontal pan and hornet's movement (especially early game) is more geared towards horizontal travel so it's unsurprising

[whole hawk]

The Halfway Home area in Greymoor could also be a double meaning. Sure it's the name of an actual facility but it could be a literal halfway mark for Pharloom.

[spark valve]

it does look more linear but hk is also pretty linear early on unless you actively fight the way the game is sending you

[terse wadi]

Totally not me getting the two mask shards in Forgotten Crossroads immediately on my new playthrough

[runic musk]

Wonder if there'll be a point of the game where it'll just give you pointers for where to go like HK did with the Dreamers

[spark valve]

I hope not but could happen

[terse wadi]

I'd rather they gate my progression via what tools and equipment I have to navigate

Only breaking the sequence if I got good parkour skills

[iron pendant]

I hope its framed as more, you're following a rumor, like you hear "Oh this patch is blocked, but Dave from the Cogworks has a key" so now you're off to there to find this key and open the patch

[sinful nimbus]

DAVE?

[iron pendant]

Dave gets around

[terse wadi]

Dave's on the move

[spark valve]

dave will die within 10 seconds

[terse wadi]

Probably

[spark valve]

he'll be turned into a nice set of throwing knives

[foggy fractal]

there's probably gonna be more Daves

Dave%

[terse wadi]

Dave pacifist run

[quartz salmon]

I mean there are major areas missing from that map so I wouldnt worry about it

The coral area and the citadel looks massive

[quartz salmon]

Maybe the quest board could come into play

Like not just for optional stuff

[terse wadi]

I could see that happening

[iron pendant]

That a good point, I'm skeptical they would put critical path things behind that system, but major items like crests and spells absolutely

[quartz salmon]

There seems to be a tab in your inventory for quests

So it probably won't be hard to miss

[terse wadi]

I'd imagine you'd have to physically pick up the quest but once you have it, you have it

[quartz salmon]

Yeah that

[raven condor]

Anyone have the official clean art version of this?

[sinful nimbus]

iirc its leth's twitter background

oh its not the full image though

[iron pendant]

The TC website has this one for the release date post

[raven condor]

Not bad, gracias!

[dim stump]

I think it's a bit less than a third. it's probably all early game stuff and given that the trailer had a lot of clips we'd already seen through the years, I think this time TC doesn't have the need to share/spoil much of the game, I think there's major areas that they haven't showed for sure too, also IIRC the Citadel isn't the end of the game, just the initial goal, I expect citadel to be mid-gameish.

[quartz salmon]

I think the citadel is definately multiple areas making a big one together

Including the vault

[dim stump]

agreed

but there's def more after the citadel IMO

[iron pendant]

I mean its more or less entirely places we already knew about, and if the places we've only seen one or two rooms of are of similar size we're looking at a massive map

[terse wadi]

The map is 500.000 Zotes long

(I counted and measured)

[quartz salmon]

Impressive

[quartz salmon]

It amazes me that there are so many areas still not on that map shot

[iron pendant]

And that assumes the areas we've gotten glimpses of is all there is, there could easily be entire zones we don't know about

[urban sphinx]

greymoor is supposedly the biggest area. Even bigger than anything in HK

[shy magnet]

i think theres a part above from this

[dim stump]

I'm 100% sure there are several big areas that we don't know about

[iron pendant]

Well the Greymoor section has a few unmapped paths

[shy magnet]

we havnet seen the citadel yet too

[terse wadi]

Craw lake sounds fun

[quartz salmon]

Maybe that's an old claim by now? Looking at the map I'd doesnt look that bigger than the one to it's left

Or maybe it's just me

[dim stump]

it keeps going on the right/up

[urban sphinx]

Craw lake is obviously a subarea of greymoor

[opal beacon]

Its a town surrounded by lake

All sub areas in Silksong are towns

[quartz salmon]

Not necessarily if we're going with the assumption that this is 1/3rd of the map

[opal beacon]

Why they're collecting silk

[opal beacon]

Maybe, but on the map, craw lake have a town

[quartz salmon]

Looks more like a castle

[opal beacon]

Yeah, castle with two floors

[urban sphinx]

this might be craw lake

[terse wadi]

I'll say it's a palace

[opal beacon]

No, because in the files this shit called 'bay'

[urban sphinx]

Could be a placeholder name

[iron pendant]

Ehh, I'm not sure 6 year old metadata is completely reliable

[spark valve]

it really doesn't match up with the map flourish anyways

[opal beacon]

But its not look like Greymoor

[faint pelican]

lakes can have bays

[opal beacon]

Not same mood

OK, maybe it is craw lake

[spark valve]

craw lake isn't greymoor though

[opal beacon]

Its Greymoor on the map

[spark valve]

it is next to it but it has its own color

[opal beacon]

No, its just shadowed by menu corners, you can see in trailer

Look at this

[opal beacon]

Same color, just shadowed

[spark valve]

there is a slight difference there but sure whatever

[opal beacon]

Its not craw lake, because on the map it doesn't have bench like here

[opal beacon]

Its just another town in another area

I wonder how far fields town looks like

[opal beacon]

Its called Piligrim's Rest

[placid zodiac]

The blue place seems fun

[opal beacon]

Greymoor is peak

I want to explore these dilapidated windmills

[spark valve]

looks like you can go in one or two

[placid zodiac]

11 days feels so longghgggggg

[opal beacon]

They see you your beauty, so frail and fine
They see your piece, woven of faith and toil
They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude
When you'll wake, they shall see your truth
Beast's natiew bare to all

From "Pharloom's Folly" by Conductor Romino

Probably Shade Lord in a cocoon

[sinful nimbus]

Anything but the beasts natiew

[opal beacon]

[terse wadi]

Beast in this context could be spiders

since apparently (at least in hallownest) they're extremely racist to spiders

[spark valve]

nah that's not a spider thing

[terse wadi]

Sorry "Arachnids"

[spark valve]

herrah's not called a beast because she's a spider it's because she's of lower caste

[terse wadi]

she's a queen

[spark valve]

now she is

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Fungal Wastes - Near Deepnest

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make.

@tammo6424 used /lore-tablets area: Fungal Wastes name: Near Deepnest

[faint pelican]

who's the dead sire there? pale king seems unlikely

[terse wadi]

Feels like that's just derogatory propaganda if you ask me, I don't recall deepnest ever being part of Hallownest, the seal was a pact

Deepnest king

[sinful nimbus]

King of deepnest

[faint pelican]

yea I'm just curious if there's any other reference to him ingame

[spark valve]

yes deepnest is a different society with a different hierarchy

and it being 'derogatory propaganda' is the point

[terse wadi]

[spark valve]

it is an insult against herrah not a statement about spiders all being beasts

[terse wadi]

PK does love some propaganda

[spark valve]

that's not from pk

[terse wadi]

My point stands, he loves propaganda

And his copium

[spark valve]

herrah was his ally anyways

and that tablet is obviously outdated

[terse wadi]

What about the resting grounds msg

She's also called a beast there, that's post seal

[spark valve]

the title stuck yes

[lethal burrow]

or maybe it's simply that she was the equivalent of a deep nest peasant.

"peasant marrying royalty" sort of thing

simply a common beast. Not of loyal cast.

[vestal swan]

No? She didn't gain any position she didn't already have by having hornet

[spark valve]

inventing things to argue against

[vestal swan]

Is this entire conversation not based on the fact that she's called a beast vs queen? I don't remember her ever being called a queen

And either way it's inaccurate to say that she became one after the fact

[terse wadi]

Unless I'm forgetting something idk if they got married, I think she just agreed to be a seal in exchange for a child

[spark valve]

pk is not a part of the conversation

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[spark valve]

nope

[faint pelican]

might be backwards too. The mushroom tablet says "once of honored caste"

[spark valve]

again, pk is not part of the conversation he's entirely irrelevant

[faint pelican]

so the king may have lost status to be with herrah

[spark valve]

or he just died which is already explicit

[terse wadi]

Not even going on about PK anymore, just talking about Herrah being Queen even before PK

[spark valve]

and herrah obviously changed status

[vestal swan]

If the old tablet calls the dead King honored and her not and the new one calls her a beast then she was never royalty or honored cast what is the point of this conversation

[faint pelican]

I mean dying doesn't necessarily change your status

[spark valve]

she rules deepnest whining about whether the game calls her queen or not is silly

[faint pelican]

it's kind of too obscure to really say for sure, the semantics could go either way there

[terse wadi]

She's queen of Deepnest, I never dispuited this

[spark valve]

powdered did

[vestal swan]

The point is she's called beast twice is she not

She does not command the same respect as the former King or the person that gave her a child she did not change status?

If they're still going to call her a beast nothing really changed

[spark valve]

she materially rules the area this is absurd cope

[faint pelican]

also being a "common beast" implies (to a degree) that the deepnest king could be a higher being?

[spark valve]

the weavers fucking call hornet a princess like what

[vestal swan]

I'm not saying she's not the ruler I'm saying they don't respect her that's the point

[spark valve]

she has worshippers

[faint pelican]

but like that's suuuuuper speculation. there is some weird shit in deepnest tho

[spark valve]

but yeah no her subjects don't respect her or consider her a queen they just worship her and call her daughter princess yeah that makes sense good one powdered

[faint pelican]

and given that the two groups referring to her as a beast are
a) a psychic hivemind
b) bug autocrat
I'm not sure it's that big of an insult

it's reasonable to say outsiders to deepnest probably don't like herrah but she's pretty clearly beloved by the bugs in deepnest

[terse wadi]

I mean, it's kind of like another country inside another country kind of situation

Of course it's hostile and there's tensions

Hallownest is more or less a congregation of tribes

But it's quite clear that not all of them recognizze it as legitimate

[spark valve]

the kingdom is not a coalition it's a faction of its own that has affiliations with other factions but doesn't count all of them as members

deepnest isn't a part of the kingdom they just are allies

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[terse wadi]

idk if I'd call it a coalition but hallownest like many nations is a nation of immigrants

PK also colonised a few of the areas

Which some of the locals weren't happy about

[spark valve]

Not really no

PK created most of the inhabitants out of nonsapient animals that were just around

The only ones who joined were like the mushrooms and moths

[terse wadi]

Mantises too

[faint pelican]

this needs a bit of an asterisk I think

since all the evidence that claims that higher beings are the reason bugs aren't mindless is more than a bit biased ingame

[spark valve]

They didn’t join

[terse wadi]

[spark valve]

It’s not, it’s materially true of most of Hallownest’s inhabitants it’s just not true of everything

[faint pelican]

or: the people writing those tablets lied!

[spark valve]

No

Throne room tablet is entirely incompatible with that

As is the cliffs corpse

[faint pelican]

you don't think those sound like propaganda?

that's a bit bold

[terse wadi]

iirc the not Hallownesters are the Mantis tribe, Deepnest the hive ( I think) Unn's kin

[spark valve]

No the thing pk wrote for himself that’s entirely tucked away inside his own house is not propaganda

[terse wadi]

I forgor the rest if there any

[spark valve]

Nor is the bug that lost its mind leaving the kingdom exactly like the tablets said would happen

[faint pelican]

I mean I'm not gonna lie it sounds like he was writing ego haikus about himself

[terse wadi]

I think only bugs not created by PK can leave Hallownest and retain memories

[spark valve]

That is correct but they lose more than memories if they’re dependent on the beacon

[terse wadi]

Quick question

What's the difference between PK creationism and procreation

Hornet is pk's "Creation" but she's not affected

A bit semantical I know but still

[faint pelican]

what about roon, godseeker, the weavers, cornifer and iselda, I assume steel soul jinn and probably a few others

[spark valve]

What?

[terse wadi]

Most of those would be fine

[spark valve]

They’re like completely different things I don’t even know where to start

One is having a kid one is casting a spell that makes a bunch of animals smart

[terse wadi]

I'm being cheeky since procreation is a type of "creation" I know it's different

[faint pelican]

quirrel too but presumably he's protected by the monomon mask

[terse wadi]

Godseeker seems to be the only one affected by the beacon

Of the ones you mentioned

[spark valve]

Godseeker isn’t affected by it she just detects it

[faint pelican]

oh I'm just pointing out a bunch of bugs from outside (though don't necessarily originate outside) of hallownest that clearly aren't mindless

[spark valve]

Nobody said anything remotely contradicted by any of that

[faint pelican]

idk occham's razor kind of applies here. weirdo deity magic or one (1) dude lied

[spark valve]

It really really doesn’t

[terse wadi]

If HK lore were that simple we would have solved it already

PK does love propeganda but this is one of the few things that tracks

[spark valve]

It is simple

[faint pelican]

I mean, it kinda doesn't track

[spark valve]

It’s a power that’s repeatedly indicated to be in effect and never contradicted

[faint pelican]

there are multiple counterexamples to it

[spark valve]

None of those are counter examples lmao

Wyrms expanding minds doesn’t and has never meant that every mind comes from a wyrm

[faint pelican]

I never said that

[spark valve]

then every argument you're making means fuckall

[faint pelican]

I said wyrms expanding minds isn't even necessarily something that happened

[spark valve]

it's just something the game says happened repeatedly

and without any hint of contradiction and in contexts where it couldn't be a lie

by any remotely reasonable standard yeah it is

[faint pelican]

I mean sure, go off ig

[edgy stone]

What if like wyrms went extinct because of a big fish

[faint pelican]

trueeee

[edgy stone]

Theres just a big fish flying around the hallow knight world that ate all the wyrms

[terse wadi]

I know this is bug game but technially wyrms are dragons

well, a type of one

[spark valve]

sure

[terse wadi]

Of course HK takes the name more literally

[spark valve]

in hk they're a type of god moreso than dragon

[terse wadi]

Dragons are god-like beings in a lot of their mythos

[spark valve]

sure

[edgy stone]

What if its the the koi that ate all the wyrms

[terse wadi]

It's a pretty accurate comparison

[edgy stone]

The one that became a dragon after ascending the waterfall

[terse wadi]

I personally choose to believe HK has Human sized bugs not normal irl sized buts so I disgree

[foggy fractal]

if all these koi fish ate the wyrms and I ate the koi fish would I get the ability to control bugs

[terse wadi]

*Disagree

[spark valve]

tk is the size of the moon

[faint pelican]

I mean I don't think you can really tie 'wyrm' to anything in irl folklore

hell wyrm might not even refer to a noodly thing

[terse wadi]

Nuh-uh, the size of mars

[spark valve]

that's at the end of the game, everything is constantly growing

[edgy stone]

Well the koi no longer exists the koi has became the dragon

[terse wadi]

If he were just a worm it would say as such anyone who knows fantasy mythos knows wyrms are dragons and dragons are commonly god-like but idk maybe Ari and willbi just thought it sounded cool

[faint pelican]

actually no I forgot about bardoon dialogue I guess they are noodly

[edgy stone]

You need to eat the dragon to consume its powers that laid dormant in the kois form

[sinful nimbus]

True!

[spark valve]

worm is also used as an insult in a few occasions and flukes are described as wormlike, there's obviously a pretty big difference between wyrms and worms

[terse wadi]

oh, I agree

I'm just saying if it was just supposed to be long bug they would've went with worm

[faint pelican]

yeah I mean wyrm just kinda means a type of deity in this setting

tying it to dragons is kinda weird especially because dragons that were called wyrms were not deity like

[terse wadi]

Maybe one day we'll learn about Blakc wyrm

[spark valve]

nah

[faint pelican]

they were like, mostly noodly ornamentation on european art lol

[terse wadi]

I'm not tying anything to dragons, just the nomenclature

[foggy fractal]

what if instead we learn about the red wyrm

[faint pelican]

wyrm refers to a pretty specific folklore monster, not dragons as a whole

[terse wadi]

I said it's a type of dragon

[faint pelican]

if anything I think it's probably closer to a sea serpent than anything

[terse wadi]

Lesser dragon, but still

[faint pelican]

idk the etymology matters a bit less since this is a modern game

[edgy stone]

Yeah the difference between wyvern drake and dragon have been thrown out the window

[terse wadi]

eh, Fantasy stories and games have continued and expanded the mythos

Wouldn't exactly say it's irrelevant

[faint pelican]

I mean very little from hk is actually tied to that folklore

it's pretty much just the word itself, and ig the assertion that wyrms are noodly

[edgy stone]

I do think we will learn more about wyrms in silksong

Or at least what wyrm blood does in somebody

[faint pelican]

higher beings in general I imagine

[spark valve]

the general amount of magic in ss seems to be lower

there also isn't really anything to learn about higher beings 'in general'

[edgy stone]

I dont know if the pale king is still technically considered a wyrm in his king form but all of his offspring seem to have inherited no qualities of that forms design

The wyrm one I mean

Itd be cool if hornet has some transformative properties she simply doesnt know about

[terse wadi]

domain, kingdom ,class, order, family, Genus, species, I would say they're in order or family tbh

[faint pelican]

consensus across lore is that pk and the wyrm are the same being

[edgy stone]

It'd be interesting if hornet does actually concoon

[sinful nimbus]

What if dragons aren't all related

[edgy stone]

The recovery gimmick is much more a spider wrapping up something that belongs to them

[spark valve]

sloppy worldbuilding

[terse wadi]

Everything is somewhat related, it just depends how distantly

[edgy stone]

The pale wyrm did concoon though

[sinful nimbus]

Its good worldbuilding because evolution isn't realistic at all

[faint pelican]

yeah taxonomy and evolution don't really get along lol

[terse wadi]

Parralell evolution is also extremely rare

[spark valve]

I mean not really convergent evolution is a thing

[faint pelican]

taxonomically speaking it's rare but also not really

[sinful nimbus]

I was saying evolution isn't real

[spark valve]

to the degree of multiple dragons evolving separately though it would be... weird

[viscid ridge]

Trees

[faint pelican]

niches in an ecosystem get filled

[sinful nimbus]

They're just big lizards

[terse wadi]

My point

[faint pelican]

trees are an excellent example actually yeah

[edgy stone]

I really do hope hornet is more wyrm like than what we can initially assume from her appearance

[spark valve]

hk is all about a wyrm centering wyrms and their powers in ss as well would suck

the extent of its relevance can just be that it makes hornet's silk soul infused

[terse wadi]

Not saying it doesn't happen, but sharing so many similar traits across many many many species is nothing short of a cosmic coincidence

[sinful nimbus]

It'd be like if they showed the ancient civilization or delicate flowers in SS it would just be goofy

[faint pelican]

or just top down world design

[terse wadi]

we're talking about evolution

[faint pelican]

in hollow knight?

[sinful nimbus]

What if its a world where fire breathing is easy

[spark valve]

it would be way more of a problem

[terse wadi]

In general

[faint pelican]

in general it's not a cosmic coincidence. niches get filled

often there's only one or two ways to realistically fill that niche

[terse wadi]

sounds fun