sk-lore

[cold hinge]

yeah it's super cool, they're one of the things that I'm most excited about

[high violet]

for example the harp crest moves all have a brownish tint to them

[terse mural]

im gonna have to like beat every boss with every crest whenever i find the hall of gods equivalent/whenever someone mods that in

[cold hinge]

wait I did not know that

[terse mural]

crests can impact stuff like healing speed too, right?

[cold hinge]

ikr, the experience will be completely different with each crest (I hope)

[high violet]

its something i found ages ago but i didnt really tell many people about it

but mossbag sees it consistently as well

[cold hinge]

do you have like screenshot of the colored crests?

[high violet]

let me see if i can find a screenshot

[lunar crest]

Hi

[high violet]

heres with the harp crest

[lunar crest]

Disgusting Harp Crest

[terse mural]

oh my god thats real

[high violet]

theres a few more hold up

[terse mural]

wtf are people gonna do for their modded custom crests

theres only so many colors!!!!

[high violet]

you can see it pretty consistently here too, if you take into account that some of the backgrounds desaturate the moveset

[lunar crest]

The Spike crest is clearly the best one

[high violet]

From what I've gathered so fear
Wanderer (default): White
Harp: Orange/Brown
Reaper: Pinkish
Claws: Reddish

you can even see it in the spritesheets from a while back

notice how all the moves from the claw crest are red

[lunar crest]

Man I love how #2 looks

[lunar crest]

Woah

[cold hinge]

it's interesting how your pogo direction changes depending on your crest

[terse mural]

i dont envy the bastard responsible for making a wiki page with all the crest slash hitboxes

[cold hinge]

I'm sure there'll be speedrun skips that require certain crests so that'll be cool

[high violet]

and this ones moves, which appears to be a long range type crest has a yellow tinge, PROBABLY THIS ONE ACTUALLY

[cold hinge]

that crest is super cool honestly

[lunar crest]

I prefer spikey

Long slash,,,,.,.,.,.,.,,,.

[high violet]

im hella interested about this crest, which seems to put a black voidish tint on all your moves

[cold hinge]

I am absolutely fiending for more void lore in silksong

[lunar crest]

I won't be using that one because it freaks me out,, it looks cool though

[high violet]

i think it probably slows down your moveset but makes you do way more damage

[terse mural]

wtf is she even doing

[high violet]

hornet things bro fuck if i know she always doing weird shi

[terse mural]

thk plunge looking ass. is she just posing to look cool

where is the scurrying animation gonna show up i still fucking wonder thats the real enigma

[hazy hemlock]

it’s actually fucking insane how many different sprites ari has drawn for this game

[cold hinge]

what drawing sprites for 6 years does to someone

[high violet]

yeah depending on how many crests tere are he's essentially redrawn the sprites every single time for all the key movements

[hazy hemlock]

it’s actually nuts the game is so complex

[viscid ridge]

Ill look again, but so far as i know we have seen 8 types of crests so far

[high violet]

thats all the key movements x 8 already wtf

[lunar crest]

How many Crests are there

[quartz salmon]

well 8 would be a good number

[lunar crest]

Someone finds all the crests and tries them just to find out the default suits them the best

Surely this happens to someone

[quartz salmon]

actually it would really be a good number cause then you can round it up to 10 with 2 more as dlc

[quartz salmon]

for sure

[high violet]

well none of the crests are better than each other, they all just adjust your nail length, attack speed, amount of damage done, etc + some other things that probably havent been revealed yet

i think different ones can be useful in different situations

harp one from the looks of it seems to be a short ranged quick one

[lunar crest]

I just want the spiky crest that gives long slash :catbrown: hopefully that's still in the game,,

[high violet]

i mean i see no reason why they would remove it

but im also not entirely sure whether thats actually a move from a crest

[wraith mango]

Apparently we can see steam trading cards for silksong

There is new character in one card we havent seen before

[lunar crest]

||"Phantom"||

Interesting name,,,

[viscid ridge]

|| Yeah she looks weirdly similar to hornet and the lord of shades which really disturbs me of the implications of hornet being void ||

How do i censor a image?

[lunar crest]

Her weapon reminds me of another character, I forget who though

[lunar crest]

Mobile or PC?

[viscid ridge]

Mobile

[lunar crest]

-# tap on it if it wasn't clear

[quartz salmon]

they have a pin same as lace just longer

[viscid ridge]

I got it dw 😁

[lunar crest]

Yeah Lace

[wraith mango]

Also void present in pharloom?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, im pretty sure void is everywhere

[dire forum]

They each have their own descriptions too, which I was gonna post but apparently this channel doesnt allow multiple images postes at once.

[viscid ridge]

Like if you dig deep enough

[lunar crest]

It only allows five or six at a time iirc

[viscid ridge]

Interesting

[dire forum]

Also, did anyone spot this in the Steam page? They say "Steel Soul" rather than "Silk Soul".

[lunar crest]

I don't like ||Nuu's...||

[lunar crest]

Steel Silk sounds better,,,

[real crater]

||Nuus's ||is creepy

Steel soul and silk soul might be different

[dire forum]

Seemingly a typo but if they just backtracked on their promise to give us a new mode that'd be pretty annoying...

[viscid ridge]

Is it new or was it always like that?

[dire forum]

It was Silk Soul before

[real crater]

||Wait if trobbio is a thespian was he a part of grimm troupe ||

[viscid ridge]

If i had a nickle for every time team cherry decided to put a character with huge voluptuous lips into their game, i would have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot but its weird that it happened twice

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it

[lunar crest]

Me and my friend made a wager

[real crater]

But what other theater people do we know aboutt

[lunar crest]

Whoever dies in Silksong first has to admit to the other that they're less cool

[viscid ridge]

The butterfly in city of tears

[real crater]

That was just in city of tears

[lunar crest]

Maria I wouldn't really say is a thespian

[real crater]

We know grimm troupe moves around a lot I doubt people in pharloom knows about the singer

Also thespains are theater actors

And sometimes circus artist s are also counted

I mean it would be neat for us to meet a new troupemaster

Like brimm

[lunar crest]

Brimm

[viscid ridge]

Correlation of evidence doesn't eqaute to evidence of Correlation. I think its just a coincidence. He also feels more like the rich bugs in the city of tears

[marsh bison]

Nuu is the introduction to the romance mechanic that will allow hornet to romantically pursue either lace phantom or shakra

Also guys why are you spoilering stuff the pins say all spoilers are allowed

[marsh bison]

Also that black background is probably just so you can see the slash

[wooden dawn]

good for you cause in one of the endings nuu gets arrested for sexual harassment

[real crater]

By the last judge

[high violet]

maybe but it wasnt applied to any of hte other sprite sheets and the colour tint thing is consistent with all the crest movesets so far

[marsh bison]

And is then sent to the prison grindle is in

[real crater]

I am not gonna take the bait

But good for grindle

[marsh bison]

It all lines up a bit too well to not be coincidence

[real crater]

It is one

[marsh bison]

What bait?

[real crater]

I got muted for a similar joke I won't say it again

But I am happy I wasn't being baited

[marsh bison]

Cool anyway yeha grindle then shanks nuu to death with a straight pin after realising they were sent here for getting in the way of lacenet

A crime so hideous and cruel the citadel would banish you to the edge of pharloom

[real crater]

The wholesome chore game with lacenet will be ours

And send people to break ur knees

[marsh bison]

Wholesome Yuri that is not toxic or doomed will be ours

[real crater]

Yes with a E rating so everyone can play

With a nailsmith and sheo dlc

[marsh bison]

Don’t you mean nail master and sheo?

[real crater]

They both are nailmasters

[marsh bison]

nail smith I mean

[real crater]

Also no mistakes

[wanton eagle]

My guess is that since the steel clan people are in Silksong, steel soul will just work differently

[minor anchor]

What enemies are we gonna be fighting if the radiance is already defeated

[wanton eagle]

Different kingdom dawg

[minor anchor]

Oh mah bad

[wanton eagle]

Ye np it happens

[minor anchor]

Thx bro

[high violet]

how dare you make a mistake im going to now send you into the penar explosion chamber

[minor anchor]

God no please

[high violet]

...is probably what this channel will eventually devolve into long after silksong has come out

hk-lore is already destroyed with the erm ackshually's 🤓

this channel is still fun speculation

[minor anchor]

Wait actually 😭

[high violet]

and im glad to be here for it before any theory gets set in stone

[minor anchor]

I'm still new

[wanton eagle]

I love making up my own lore even after playing through a game and then going into lore channels and just being confidently wrong

[high violet]

well since HK has been out for a while, some of the theories are now pretty set in stone by people

and you will get attacked if say anything different, in hk lore at least

[minor anchor]

Oh damn

[high violet]

this is what other people have told me so take it with a grain of salt

in this channel we're still all baby infants figuring out the lore

everyones thoughts are still equally valid, which is nice

[minor anchor]

This channel gonna be a full fledged adult in like a month of silksong being out

[high violet]

i think the theories will take slightly longer than that to mature out

[wanton eagle]

Yeah

And they'll change over time because TC are planning future content

Which I think is cool and good👍

[high violet]

with all the new stuff we discover theres also gonna be new questions too

[minor anchor]

Like a dlc?

[wanton eagle]

I'd guess free DLC like Hollow Knight

[minor anchor]

Probably

[wanton eagle]

Just major updates more than like, actual DLC

[high violet]

TC is just living every developers dream lmao, "infinite" money to make their stories and dreams come to life and let other people experience them

that is something i LOVE to do as well, minus the inifinite money part

[wanton eagle]

Yeah, every artist's dream

One kind of art or another

[amber bridge]

my thoughts exactly

using the silksong hype drought to continue selling the original HK games to help them afloat feels honestly like both a genius and devil move

[green charm]

I don’t even think they were doing it intentionally

[amber bridge]

of course likely not, its the plan in on itself that sounds like a mix of genius and devious

it unintentionally worked fantastically on them

[hexed zealot]

🫡

💪💪💪🏋️‍♂️

[rain cloak]

we loring

[real crater]

Some would say it's loring time

[green charm]

It’s cloreberrin’ time

[royal fjord]

I want some mention of the ||pure vessel|| within silksong or some appearance because I think it would be really cool and I like the character and it would be cannon to one of the endings

[green charm]

That’s almost certainly not happening

[real crater]

Pure vessel is not really appearing outside godhome

[feral thistle]

"Haunted madness" and "throes of death"

Why would Pharloom's president raise the tariffs?? Is he stupid

[tough timber]

Alright thanks to certain stuff being brought to light, I guess it’s safe to say Void’s effect on the narrative is definitely not over

[feral thistle]

What is the stuff in question

[lapis creek]

Steamdb badges revealed some things

If you're afraid of spoilers this may be a good place to draw the line

[feral thistle]

How did we already get into game files

[lapis creek]

We didnt

[feral thistle]

Or wait, I dont actually know what that is

[lapis creek]

It's badges and trading cards you can get on steam

[fossil wraith]

This items description sounds like it's a permanent upgrade to the damage of your tools

These bosses also wear similar crowns. They're attached to the sides of their heads making them look like halos floating above their heads

[feral thistle]

I think it unlocks more types of tools

[feral thistle]

This might be a recurring design motif among robotic enemies

[fossil wraith]

This boss seems to be a weaver. I haven't seen anyone point this out yet but I feel like that has to be important somehow.

[feral thistle]

Head shape not round enough, might be a fake one

[tough timber]

Yeah most of it is old news however there are select few things that weren’t shown in any of the trailers

But just in case you might be a bit protective about spoilers ||Arcane Egg seems to be back as a collectible as it was shown as a badge again||

[fossil wraith]

True but it runs like the weaver we see in HK and it has the same eyes. I think there is a chance it's a weaver that has been mutilated somehow.

The arena it's in is also covered in silk and spider webs

[burnt radish]

Maybe is simply TC wanting to make a different design.

For the weaver boss.

[midnight zinc]

It’s entirely possible weavers come in different shapes, we’ve only seen a small number of them, and only one living one

[burnt radish]

Example: ants, mantis, the mushrooms, etc.

[midnight zinc]

Yes exactly

[fossil wraith]

I don't think this is what that actually is but that reminds me of a popped balloon. Like someone just poked a needle into the round head and it deflated into that

[feral thistle]

It seems to have two needles on its back

[fossil wraith]

the silk is stored in the balls

[feral thistle]

Weapons? Or for weaving

[fossil wraith]

It doesn't attack with them in the short clip. It just kinda tries to hit hornet with two of its legs

[midnight zinc]

Why not both

[midnight zinc]

Impeccable form

[feral thistle]

Mf learned how to fight from zote

[fossil wraith]

Zote confirmed to be the king of pharloom

[midnight zinc]

Silksong if it was good

[haughty tide]

guys will i need hollow knight save file to connect it with silksong save file?

[next sable]

Don’t think so. This is as standalone a game that TC can make as possible in context of Hollow Knight

[elder cobalt]

nice pfp btw

[lapis creek]

arcane eggs are not full of void lmfao

where did you get that impression

[whole juniper]

milk

[whole juniper]

They aren’t full of it but they’re made by the void worshippers right

[lapis creek]

yes exactly

[high violet]

||arcane eggs are defo void adjacent prolly||

[whole juniper]

void doesn’t hold information but arcane eggs do

[lapis creek]

their interior according to lemm just contains more information that can be unlocked with great care

[whole juniper]

Maybe the exterior is void

[fossil wraith]

I think that the ||bone scroll||, ||coral commandment|| and ||weaver effigy|| are just gonna be sellable relics like in hollow knight and are just gonna get you some lore information and money once you sell them

I talked about this yesterday on here but I think the void might just be everywhere in the HK/SS world if you just go deep enough

[terse wadi]

Possiblr

[sly skiff]

Where do I view this

[fossil wraith]

It could be that there used to be multiple groups that worshipped the void around the world

[oak helm]

whos this edgy vessel knockoff

[fossil wraith]

Phantom

[minor anchor]

Is his weapon the longpin?

[foggy fractal]

yes

ok now this guy really looks like void

[fossil wraith]

It has the same eyes as hornet...

[terse wadi]

Looks like an edit

[minor anchor]

Where is the image from?

[terse wadi]

Literally looks like someone ripped hornets face from somewhere

[fossil wraith]

I wouldn't know. And wouldn't really prove anything if it wasn't

[oak helm]

he has the pale king's fork head or smth

[terse wadi]

Are Steam cards even out yet?

[spark valve]

you can see them on steamdb

[minor anchor]

Maybe he's like nosk

[terse wadi]

alright, lemme check

[fossil wraith]

I feel like I've seen a bug with ass flaps like those that phantom has

[spark valve]

in the community tab

[oak helm]

hornet's ass wings

perhaps

[fossil wraith]

No like a real world bug

[terse wadi]

can't fin it, I'mdumb

link pls

Doesn't help that I just woke up

[spark valve]

https://steamdb.info/app/1030300/communityitems/

scroll down

[terse wadi]

Lmao guess the creep Hornet slaps isn't Susie

Rip Powdered

[vestal swan]

Susie smoocher still a better name

[terse wadi]

Ngl I really hope Henrick is henrick just for us but considering they didn't check socials probably not

[terse wadi]

whatever helps you cope at night

But ngl, anything is better than "Nuu"

[graceful ruin]

Who is this is this a new fellow from the trailer

[whole juniper]

bill

[terse wadi]

He's from a trading card

[graceful ruin]

Guys hornet has boundaries

[foggy fractal]

nah they're not even from the new trailer

[carmine blade]

Shitty OC ass looking mf

[steel slate]

Ello

[whole juniper]

hortnet gender reveal

[graceful ruin]

Andy are you still making fakes

[terse wadi]

Hey Curly

[carmine blade]

Omg hey wax

[graceful ruin]

Hi curly!

[terse wadi]

Long time no see

[spark valve]

yes

[carmine blade]

And Hey Pillow and Melanie!

[terse wadi]

Everyone ready to silk it?

[graceful ruin]

Guys do we think hornet will end up being tired and need to sit and rest at some point in the game‽

[foggy fractal]

she probably won't but I will

[spark valve]

she collapses almost immediately

[graceful ruin]

Hornet chronic health issues

[foggy fractal]

yep she struggles in moss grotto due to landing so hard

[terse wadi]

would you not as well if you fell 9 miles

[real crater]

|| In the demo hornet can't walk properly in moss grotto ||

[foggy fractal]

but she'll probably be fine afterwards

[spark valve]

tuck and roll

[real crater]

She has a whole game ahead of her she NEEDS to be fine

[graceful ruin]

Yeah but she's a bug they survive fine from massive drops

[terse wadi]

I feel after a certain height and velocity that becomes pointless

[foggy fractal]

just use double jump near the bottom and take no fall damage easy

[real crater]

Didn't the knight also fall from like really high up

[graceful ruin]

Yeah but the knight intentionally jumped

[foggy fractal]

knight built differet 🐺

[terse wadi]

the knight is a super soldier zombie child

[spark valve]

no terminal velocity is a thing if you can survive a fall at terminal velocity you can survive any fall

[graceful ruin]

And also yeah literally built different

[spark valve]

hornet's collapse is probably more to do with the seal than the fall imo

[graceful ruin]

Like an ant can survive falling at its terminal velocity surely hornet can too

[real crater]

Hornet has problems with height cause hornet is not void

[spark valve]

we know it fucked her up bad since it also cost her all her spells

[graceful ruin]

Guys she's just eepy they wouldn't let her sleep in the cage

[real crater]

Also hornet is 1 mask after the fall

[terse wadi]

I think it's weakness from the seal

[fossil wraith]

Most likely I think

[carmine blade]

All of the above?

[graceful ruin]

Probably works as a bind tutorial for gameplay reasons

[real crater]

Most likely a mixture of all of the above

[fossil wraith]

That or something in pharloom is trying to take control of her

[real crater]

Also hornet fell a long height after being in captivity for ari knows how long

That drains her strength

[terse wadi]

So Ari is the local deity now

[graceful ruin]

Ari doesn't know, only William knows
The answer is in one of his shitposts

[real crater]

I mean ari has the lore doc

[fossil wraith]

Bro has not read the last couple messages

[carmine blade]

Always was. Who is it that gives these bugs life?

[pseudo geyser]

||Phantom could be the Pale King's bastard child, or like a Jon Snow situation|| (idk if anyone brought this up already)

[terse wadi]

me

[graceful ruin]

The spirits of Australia

He had one, hornet is the only bastard child the others are born within wedlock

[real crater]

Bugs are made sentient by the dude known as unity

[fossil wraith]

||could be another worm that took bug form||

[lapis creek]

he tried to make a void hornet and herrah wasnt happy

[carmine blade]

Phantom looks more related to Lace then PK

[pseudo geyser]

He has one with Herrah specifically (Hornet), and all the empty vessels with White Lady.|| But maybe there was another being who had a child with him and they wanna be the only one in the bloodline, could be some cool DRAMA||

[sonic dragon]

Why are you guys discussing lore before the lore is out

[fossil wraith]

I don't think the pale king is involved with pharloom

[real crater]

I don't think lace is the mastermind lace fits more of a pawn archetype

[graceful ruin]

I mean there are at least a few vessels that escaped the void
They could be running all over the place

[pseudo geyser]

what else will us chronically online people do before skong

[graceful ruin]

Granted nosk and hornet killed most of them but still

[fossil wraith]

Oh yeah I was gonna say that ||phantom might be her boss||

[sonic dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/job-application-gif-3515684064707868771

[graceful ruin]

I've applied I'm waiting to hear back smh

[lapis creek]

i dont think lace is working for the citadel

[carmine blade]

These kids would be very upset if they could read

[pseudo geyser]

double degree feels like a job

[lapis creek]

shes seen conducting the bugs that break hornet out of the cage

[graceful ruin]

Yeah everyone here is text to speeching all of their messages

[pseudo geyser]

(im coping)

[carmine blade]

Watch him become everyones fave character

[graceful ruin]

Wait who

[fossil wraith]

Yeah me neither. There are probably multiple factions in the game

[carmine blade]

Phantom

[real crater]

I mean phantom looks sick

I wonder if we get to fight him

[carmine blade]

Looks like it

[sinful nimbus]

never forget 😔

[lapis creek]

Phantom is working for the citadel according to the description

[graceful ruin]

Probably
He's got one of those citadel needles that Seth has

[fossil wraith]

Ah

[lapis creek]

Yesterday I saw somebody say phantom is void because nonbinary

[carmine blade]

Just nake a mod that replaces Nuu with Susie

[lapis creek]

Which I thought was a funny thing to say

[graceful ruin]

Wait I'm non-binary am I void‽

[carmine blade]

Yes

[sage bough]

Yes

[foggy fractal]

silk

[graceful ruin]

The genderfluid is void

[real crater]

What do u think the black thing in ur pfp is if not void

[pseudo geyser]

I theortise the main antagonistic factions + their motivations are

• Kingdom of Pharloom and its Forces (with the Ant Kingdom as Vassal State too)
• Phantom / Lace trying to stop Hornet (potentially to prevent Pharloom from capturing her for themselves and using her powers for their own gain OR for some weird 'put an end to the Pale bloodline' thing).
• Sharpe / Steel people (doing something idk)

[carmine blade]

Void is fluid made of gender

[graceful ruin]

What black thing that's just the background

[real crater]

Oh I wonder if the black thing that comes out of hornets cocoon is like the atomic shadow

[foggy fractal]

the background is made of VOID.

[real crater]

Yes the void in the background

[graceful ruin]

Dam pale king made gender to tax the constructions of more bathrooms

What's wrong with being agender

[fossil wraith]

A lot of stuff in the game is made of metal but it's all this bronze or gold colour with the exception of the clocktower and that one moving platform that goes over lava

[terse wadi]

I think Curly is just making a joke

[graceful ruin]

Tbf you shouldn't use brass to make platforms that go over lava

[real crater]

Makes sense

[fossil wraith]

Well yeah but the other deep docks people and machines are still that brass colour

[lapis creek]

You're right, maybe it's like how water has salt in it because it dissolves salt

[graceful ruin]

Madmen the lot of them

[lapis creek]

So saline solution and gender fluid both contain the thing they remove from the environment

[graceful ruin]

Does this mean the collector is made of gender‽

[lapis creek]

Ues

[terse wadi]

He's all

[fossil wraith]

I think it might mean that that stuff was made by some other faction than the citadel. Also I forgot the stuff in the dandelion/mold area also has the metal coloured metal

[spark valve]

this is most likely true

gender is a mental construct therefore essence
void consumes and assimilates essence
void does in fact contain gender

[graceful ruin]

The bug that has the key to the tower of love had their gender drained by the collector

Which is normally fine, this is how pangender and agender people exist

[terse wadi]

Collector just a funky little dude

[real crater]

Collector just a bug enthusiast

[graceful ruin]

Hey nobody's dead they're just agender now

[terse wadi]

Guess no Groovin for Collector

[spark valve]

"Nobody's dead"
the nobody in question:

[crystal marsh]

WJ states that all of them are alive iirc

[spark valve]

I... don't think it does

[wraith mango]

As we know hornet is not void, so knowing that hornet wont have a shade.
The question is now how will hornet respawn in silksong?

[graceful ruin]

Please don't eat human brains it's bad for you
Have fun with the rest of the bodies just not the brain

[spark valve]

respawn probably won't be canon in ss either

[terse wadi]

silk

[real crater]

Respawn is not canon in hk

[graceful ruin]

She leaves a cocoon where she dies, and that's it

[vestal swan]

That's just another point towards the author of the journal being insanely unobservant if true

[sinful nimbus]

I don't remember anything on Collector in WJ

[graceful ruin]

They were probably all alive when jarred

[vestal swan]

It's possible, but it's also more likely that the collector only took the love from grubs when it melded with its friend, and immediately neglected all of the other bugs in jars. Like using them as weapons in its fight

[crystal marsh]

ok misremembered, Collector isn't in WJ at all

[vestal swan]

Vtt please

[lapis creek]

ellina is the worst hollow knight character what a disaster

[vestal swan]

PK:

[lapis creek]

i hope we see her corpse in silksong so i can blow it up

[vestal swan]

That would actually be cool

[lapis creek]

we already got his ass

[graceful ruin]

Why are you being so mean to her(I've never read the wandering journal)

[graceful ruin]

Eternal emilita(I actually really like her)

[vestal swan]

Because some people like to quote the journal for evidence instead of the game and a lot of her observations are well observations of somebody who doesn't know what's going on, but also just really bad surface level things

[spark valve]

Potentially but they ain’t now

[crystal marsh]

becaue WJ is a canon source that was written to be as accurate as possible?

[lapis creek]

canon source but unreliable narrator

potentially, certainly not always but for some things

[vestal swan]

Yeah like it would be one thing for an old character that lived in the region to comment on something but a literal tourist coming in and being like yes I think this is an expert in this field by looking at a corpse is just

[sinful nimbus]

Most of her observations are sound

[spark valve]

Well not an unreliable narrator in the conventional sense just not omniscient

She’s a reliable narrator just with limited information

[lapis creek]

yeah i guess thats a better way to phrase it

[sinful nimbus]

Salty because she's always disproving your takes smh

[spark valve]

Unreliable narrator would mean like hallucinating

[vestal swan]

The other non-issue but kind of gripe people have is that the journal doesn't really offer new information on like any subject, it just reaffirms things that we already know

[lapis creek]

is this true

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah cuz its an artbook

[graceful ruin]

So you want lemm to write the book

[sinful nimbus]

Why are you hating on the goat

[spark valve]

Unreliable narrator kind of has a specific idiomatic meaning

[vestal swan]

Yeah but that makes it kind of pointless to quote if you already have the game confirming what somebody is asking about.

[sinful nimbus]

Sometimes its more explicit

[tough timber]

The Deep Dock denizens just wear bells as armor

[lapis creek]

i think it's like this

[tough timber]

Or fashion

[terse wadi]

To me, an unreliable narrator is someone with flawed or limited information

[lapis creek]

the example i thought of was nick carraway

[spark valve]

but like hte point of these is that they're making bad conclusions, ellina is making the most reasonable ones from available information

[sinful nimbus]

And its usually pretty obvious when she's missing something

Also Ellina is the only character besides TK to not be a bigot when Grimm shows up

[fossil wraith]

The doors and metal things in the environment are all that type of metal too. It seems to me that everything with gears and more complex machinery is made of the other metal

[lapis creek]

i think this can be said of some unreliable narrators as well but i see what you mean

idk if we operate on the same definition of that

[tough timber]

I mean it makes logical sense

If it’s a reliable metal, you’ll use it a fair bit

[pseudo lily]

Chat what do we think about that Phantom fella from the trading cards

[tough timber]

Too little info to make conclusions but rather interesting

[vestal swan]

Whack

[spark valve]

I think they'll make a good decoration for hornet's needle

[sinful nimbus]

I'm in shock

[pseudo lily]

Also why are we stoning tc

[sinful nimbus]

TC is on something

[graceful ruin]

Star no stoning people it's not very nice

[fossil wraith]

My main point is that the more iron looking metal is used less and we don't see it used with the brass or gold one almost at all. We also haven't seen that really complex machinery at the citadel.

[sinful nimbus]

These leaks kinda suck

Also they made Godhome and ETV

[tough timber]

Ah I see

[graceful ruin]

Okay proceed

[pseudo lily]

Yes but why do the leaks suck

[tough timber]

I imagine the Brass one is probably Pharloom’s metal of choice

[spark valve]

it looks fan made

[blissful harbor]

she’s gonna be a dark reflection of hornet ong
like zote but yk, actually cool and reversed

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is sorta cool

[spark valve]

the design is bizarre but not actually terrible it just looks so out of place

[sinful nimbus]

Apparently there's something about ||the flower|| and ||ancient civilization|| though I don't fw that

[blissful harbor]

phantom is a girl right? idk why that’s my assumption

[sinful nimbus]

Next thing they bring back mask maker

[spark valve]

the description uses they/them

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is enby just look at them

[fossil wraith]

Yeah and that makes the other metal and who is making stuff out of it very interesting

[blissful harbor]

gotcha so they’re void

[crystal marsh]

Shut

[spark valve]

launching missiles to your location

[sinful nimbus]

Void isn't genderless

[pseudo lily]

But Hornet uses she/her?

[lapis creek]

@spark valve you wanted to see this

[crystal marsh]

Double shut

[terse wadi]

Enby doesn't automatically mean void

[spark valve]

the funny part was the way you phrased it I assumed it was said verbatim

[lapis creek]

ah im sorry

im glad i made it funnier

[fossil wraith]

Every enby I know, including me, is void so idk🤷‍♀️

[tough timber]

Yeah ||A Flower that looks very similar to the Delicate Flower is on the Steam badges||

Bad time to press the wrong key

[sinful nimbus]

would sharp or blunt stones be better

[lapis creek]

i dont think the slope is this slippery

[sinful nimbus]

Or maybe a mix of both

[lapis creek]

i wasnt really hoping for this to happen but hey at least no vessels yet

[spark valve]

you say before hurtling down and slamming into the pool of void at the bottom from which the lord of shades emerges as the final boss

[sinful nimbus]

Vessel easter egg would be wayyyyy better

[tough timber]

||And to be fair, a lot of people speculated Ze’mer was from Pharloom the moment they saw the Edge magazine||

[lapis creek]

im gonna hard disagree with you on this one it would be so cool to learn more about the flowers and it would suck ass to learn more about the vessels as much as we have discussed them

actually i shouldnt be so prescriptive maybe theyd write it well

[crystal marsh]

wouldn't it be kinda interesting for another Vessel to have found their way to an entirely different kingdom tho

[sinful nimbus]

flower is whatever

[tough timber]

The thing is really what more needs to be learned?

[lapis creek]

yeah but like why whats the point

[blissful harbor]

i think finding a lone vessel just wandering around would be pretty cool
one that wasn’t called back, or simply just didn’t come back

[vestal swan]

I still don't think she's from pharloom I think that's just the flower is going to be in play somewhere

[sinful nimbus]

Vessel easter egg in my mind would just be like a corpse in the background though

[spark valve]

I will be so prescriptive SS will be BAD and the worldbuilding will SUCK this is irredeemable just fucking cancel this steaming pile of trash

[crystal marsh]

/s

[tough timber]

Fair enough

[lapis creek]

the nice thing about the flower is that hk establishes you can multiply it very quickly

so you can have flowers without zemer

[fossil wraith]

If we find a vessel it'll probably be a dead one

[vestal swan]

I mean ignoring the fact that the country is currently cursed she calls her homeland the land serene like it's a beautiful peaceful place covered with fields of flowers you know, I just don't think something with a bone Forest and a giant metal forge and a bunch of giant wild beasts would be the land serene

But that's purely going off of vibes

[lapis creek]

[terse wadi]

I don't think Pharloom is Ze'mers homeland

[lapis creek]

actually white lady says that

[sinful nimbus]

Also her dialect doesn't match Pharloom

[lapis creek]

there could be a sub area

but i agree they should keep it separate and just have the flower be an import

[vestal swan]

Yeah the dialect thing too. There was something else but a cat knocked my phone down so I forgot

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom also doesn't use nails ig

[vestal swan]

Is her weapon ever explicitly called a nail, I could see her using it like a lance or like a greatsword and it having a totally different name

I've just been calling it the ultra great nail for memes

[sinful nimbus]

look at it fr

[vestal swan]

I mean yeah but then you have life ender there made out of wood

[sinful nimbus]

thats a nail

[vestal swan]

Is it called a nail though? also it's apparently sourced from pharloom

[spark valve]

it is called a nail, no it's not apparently sourced from pharloom

[lapis creek]

shellwood

[pseudo lily]

I feel like even if void is in the game, it won’t serve a part in the main story, since void seems to propagate downwards, and we’ve seen none of it in what is ostensibly the lowest part of Pharloom. My best guess is, if it is in the game, it will just be part of a side quest involving Phantom.

[lapis creek]

but again could be a widespread species of tree

[spark valve]

I don't think phantom is that likely to be connected but eh there's the thematic connection with refuse

[lapis creek]

hunter knows what shellwood is

[spark valve]

though that veers way into just doing hk again for my taste

[vestal swan]

Phantom could be hornets made up name for it since she already named her sibling ghost

[spark valve]

does he though

[lapis creek]

somebody does

has the omniscient hunters journal been to pharloom

[vestal swan]

He could be foreign too ngl, I mean it's possible he really is just the last of his kind because his siblings killed each other for the most part but I think it's more likely he's just not from around there

[spark valve]

probably yes

[lapis creek]

ughhh youre right its noncanon

[spark valve]

well it's nondiegetic but it's canon sure

[lapis creek]

im standing my ground though shellwood is not pharloom exclusive

[pseudo lily]

Me personally I think it’d be fine if it is just a side quest. It makes sense for a sequel to include elements from the game it’s a sequel of.

[spark valve]

[lapis creek]

https://tenor.com/view/jfk-clone-high-i-like-your-funny-words-magic-man-jack-black-gif-18659433

[sinful nimbus]

Its canon its just not in universe, like item descriptions

[lapis creek]

yeah ik thats what i meant

[sinful nimbus]

Or music

Phantom kinda reminds me of lacenet its got lace and hornet dna clearly

[spark valve]

it certainly has aspects of both

[sinful nimbus]

and fox tails ig

[lapis creek]

its possible she just has a rare birth defect

[sinful nimbus]

FEARLESS FOX FEARLESS FOX NO WAY

[foggy fractal]

or somebody bashed their heads in

[spark valve]

I still think molting is a possibility with phantom

[lapis creek]

nah fearless fox is a fox moth we established this

[sinful nimbus]

Safest explanation is that its an apparition

[spark valve]

unlikely given the description

Phantom
Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched.

[sinful nimbus]

hmm

[spark valve]

now they could recton the fuck out of void

[sinful nimbus]

mournful creature though...

ghost vibes coupled with the name Phantom

choking refuse is crazy 50 bucks says thats void

[spark valve]

nah it's just a sewer boss surely

[terse wadi]

He's just got a skin condition leave him alone

[vestal swan]

Void cursed turning people into void

[foggy fractal]

nooooooo don't turn me into void

[pseudo lily]

Alright here’s my crackpot theory based on absolutely no evidence:
Pharloom has a tiny little void problem, though nowhere near the scale Hallownest had it. Phantom was tasked with dealing with it, but got corrupted by the void on some Artorias shit. It’s our job, as part of an optional side quest, to put them down, after which we use an Everblossom to clean up the area. All of this will occur entirely separate from the main story, which will have nothing to do with void.

[spark valve]

what phantom is tasked with dealing with is described as the citadel's refuse and I'm not sure how well that squares with that

[vestal swan]

Maybe they're just like a big cannibal and they ate somebody that had void

[lapis creek]

the game refers to phantom as a creature to make a meta commentary on the treatment of people with congenital diseases

[sinful nimbus]

Puppetmaster is so regretful of his actions it manifests as pure void

[pseudo lily]

I might be in the minority here, but it would be weird imo to have something as prominent to HK’s story as void have literally no mention in SS.

Like, I don’t want it to be the main focus

[lapis creek]

why would it be weird

[pseudo lily]

Idk

The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma

[spark valve]

it's more about whether or not it has a place in the new story which it may or may not but given the different presentation and apparently different themes about restoring hope and shit it doesn't necessarily make sense to expect it, or at least it didn't until the fuckin september 4th screen

[sinful nimbus]

not canon not canon lalalalala didn't hear you

[pseudo lily]

I still feel like the sep 4 screen means nothing

[spark valve]

I hope it does

[lapis creek]

i also felt that way until arcane eggs

[spark valve]

there's that too

[sinful nimbus]

eughghghghg

[lapis creek]

we will have to see i do hope it's just an underhanded marketing tactic

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe it was only Hallownest AC which worshipped void 😔

[spark valve]

though the eggs also don't entail void being around it's not like AC was only in abyss they could be comfortable being reasonably far from the object of their worship

[lapis creek]

true

[spark valve]

also possible

[lapis creek]

there are only 4 arcane eggs in hollow knight as well. if you get one from killing each steelman and you get one from the lifeblood creature then we meet our quota without too much interference

[spark valve]

them being held by the steel fuckers would make things so much worse I don't even want to think about that

[sinful nimbus]

what are the implications of the steelmen having them

[lapis creek]

i would be so happy if it were a different ac and they just both happen to use eggs because they are the supreme form of record keeping

[spark valve]

shutupshutupshutup

[lapis creek]

if seer can have an arcane egg so can sharpe

[spark valve]

see my previous message

[lapis creek]

this is not true at all

is the implication that if the ac colonized pharloom, the soul totems have since been wiped out

[foggy fractal]

wonder what the Silksong will be

[spark valve]

I guess

I doubt that's an actual item in the game

[shy magnet]

where is this from

[foggy fractal]

achievement icon or smth along the lines then probably ?

[lapis creek]

it reminds me a little of the achievement symbols for the endings of hollow knight, although it doesn't look exactly the same

[foggy fractal]

steam db

[shy magnet]

steam db so goated

wait why is an arcane egg there

[foggy fractal]

no idea

[lapis creek]

yeah thats what we've been wondering

[vestal swan]

Am I crazy or is this arcane egg design different

[spark valve]

because tc hates me personally

[lapis creek]

it is

[vestal swan]

Like it doesn't have that pattern people keep associating with the hollownest seal on it

[lapis creek]

yeah exactly

i wonder if it will be associated with something else here

[vestal swan]

Okay even crazier idea, the ancient civilization didn't just conquer the region of hollownest, they are like the precursors to all known civilization

[lapis creek]

cause the last one did look like the hallownest seal

[vestal swan]

Nah

[shy magnet]

oh yeah they are quite different

[lapis creek]

honestly the more i tell myself this the more i believe it

maybe eggs were just commonly used in ancient times

[shy magnet]

wait

[vestal swan]

Also hey maybe there is a void being here who can actually read the arcane eggs because they are that old

[shy magnet]

is that a hallownest seal on the hk arcane egg

[lapis creek]

although this and the sept 4th screen makes it seem like void is inevitable

[shy magnet]

i mean it kinda looks like it right

[lapis creek]

you dont have to be a void being you just have to have the right instrumentation i think

[lapis creek]

it does, but it would make no sense lorewise

[vestal swan]

Yeah but let's say a void being who knows how the instrument works and like just you know touched it with void could just replicate the reading of the egg

[spark valve]

would be funny if ac kept records they couldn't read

[vestal swan]

I mean there's that really weird looking desk

But also who knows how many things were destroyed and built over randomly throughout the region

[pseudo lily]

I mean, how do we know that? Hard to say something makes no sense lorewise when we probably know at most 10% of the lore.

[vestal swan]

Or funnier idea, the void being is the machine and that's what the steel troupe is, they are void beings made for specific ancient civilization functions

[lapis creek]

hallownest seal represents the king and his knights

[spark valve]

well we know the ac predated hallownest by a while, wouldn't make sense for them to use a design based on pk's appearance that symbolizes his authority

[lapis creek]

unless he designed his appearance in such a way that he could steal the existing iconography, which seems unlikely

[spark valve]

I mean it would be plenty plausible if AC wasn't probably already long gone by that point

[vestal swan]

Yeah in his gigantic form he analyzed an arcane egg and decided he wanted to make his new body vaguely resemble that totally

[pseudo lily]

I completely misinterpreted the conversation. I thought they were saying that the presence of void made no sense lorewise.

[spark valve]

ah

[pseudo lily]

I may be stuoid

[vestal swan]

We don't want the void to have a giant presence in the new game, we're also being confused by the designs on the arcane egg

[lapis creek]

i think storywise it would be a questionable choice but theres nothing against it lorewise

[vestal swan]

Like tammo already said there's the possibility for a terrible retcon

[lapis creek]

tangent, i also think 'void heart has a range limit' is about equivalent to 'seal breaking bugs' as a justification for why all endings may still be canon

[spark valve]

sure, fine, it's goofy but whatever

[pseudo lily]

I highly doubt it will have a “giant presence”. We’ve seen absolutely no trace of it in trailers, bar the September 4th screen.

[sinful nimbus]

One is a new story element that's more or less unrelated to sealed siblings but can explain it the other is a contrived explanation that basically has no reason to exist

[vestal swan]

It could also just be that every void being we come across is already harnessed with its own commands, but I also see the other possibility equally, like yeah you command the void but what if there's a void you don't know exists

[vestal swan]

Have you seen the vessel OC looking shit called phantom

[lapis creek]

yeah theyre both goofy but serviceable

[spark valve]

if void exists in SS and it's aggressive that will kind of create circumstances where you have to assume it's got a limit

[foggy fractal]

here is phantom for reference

[lapis creek]

the former is what i was hoping for for the last few years

[sinful nimbus]

that's not cool

[shy magnet]

is this real

[sinful nimbus]

I think the name phantom doesn't do the character any favors but maybe they get a real name revealed later like Aragorn

[spark valve]

phantom would be a cool design for a molting bug and so I won't complain if it's that, it being void would be pretty goofy though

[foggy fractal]

yes steam db again

[vestal swan]

I mean I don't care if other willful void exists, I just don't want them to change the way we think it works, but like also we don't have a proper origin for it yet anyway. Like TK having void heart I don't think it puts it on par with the nightmare heart like being in control of an element you know I just think it means like yeah you're a void bender now

[sinful nimbus]

It being a shapeshifter with the distinctive tails in all its forms is my guess

the black being what happens when it shapeshifts

[lapis creek]

i think itd be cool if they went into the whole regret aspect of it and how it relates to the flowers. i just think void being produced by regrets kind of implies that free void would be in the game

i also dont want another abyss

[sinful nimbus]

what the heck would be in the abyss 🙏

[lapis creek]

without the vessel corpses it's just rocks and void

[vestal swan]

I also don't want void to have such a mundane origin because then why the hell isn't there like void seeping out of random citizens in hollownest

[foggy fractal]

it was me sorry

[lapis creek]

imperceptibly small quantities that go straight to the ancient basin

that gradually add up as the weight of so many past lives increases

[vestal swan]

I hate that idea that something would be so obvious but so unexplained at the same time

[lapis creek]

regrets being toxic would also have some implications for pk but i dont think that really needed explaining anyway

[spark valve]

if they wanted to go the void is actually diegetically related to regret route that would be very strange but... whatever

[lapis creek]

they would have to do a really good job of explaining it

[spark valve]

eh

it's magic sometimes shit just is

[pseudo lily]

Wait, why are we even arguing whether or not void is in SS? We’ve known it will be ever since we learned Hornet is the main character.

[spark valve]

so true

[lapis creek]

yeah but i agree that it would be dissatisfying for them to insist on this when bugs can die without visible void

[spark valve]

void being spawned by regret doesn't necessarily mean everything that dies spawns it

[lapis creek]

thats true

[vestal swan]

Yeah but hollownest had a giant pile of regret everywhere, fuck why wasn't it pouring out of the king

[lapis creek]

but jiji has to have customers

[foggy fractal]

you die irl you also spawn in void ?

[spark valve]

he's surrounded by the stuff

[foggy fractal]

his aura is void 🥶

[lapis creek]

yeah maybe pouring out is the wrong way of thinking about it

[vestal swan]

Also he filled up his regret with regret so he could have more regret per regret?

[spark valve]

sure but there are degrees to shit, spawning it doesn't necessarily mean it immediately kills you it could spawn in tiny amounts that just sort of dissipate and collect below

[lapis creek]

maybe it just appears around you

[vestal swan]

(locking my kids in the basement with the manifestation of regret) man I hope I don't regret this later

[foggy fractal]

true !

[lapis creek]

thats why he locked away the regret

[real crater]

So he can farm regret with his regret

[vestal swan]

Bros afk farming

[lunar crest]

Chat should I kill Dave

[real crater]

Yes

[spark valve]

this community likes to forget that things can represent things and void certainly represents regret either way, it's just a question of whether within the magic system that could possibly be reflected and there are plenty of ways SS could do that if it wanted to

[lunar crest]

But what if I die to him

[real crater]

Then u respawn

[pseudo lily]

Lock tf in

[foggy fractal]

you respawn like a room away ?

[spark valve]

yeah shortest runback imaginable just grind it

[foggy fractal]

idk the demo that well

but the distance is very short

[lapis creek]

well yeah it's just that the mechanics and purpose of jiji's service are not super precise in that we don't know what exactly it means for the average bug

[real crater]

I don't think u get to kill dave there he might be important for the story

[spark valve]

ultimately it probably doesn't actually affect jiji that much even if void could be born from regrets it's not like what the knight does is remotely normal

[lunar crest]

Guys we're doing something where, Whoever dies in Silksong first has to admit to the other that they're less cool

I don't wanna die to fucking Dave in this challenge

[real crater]

Imma not play silksong for a year and then everyone is less cool than me

[lapis creek]

symbolism doesnt really help with the worldbuilding that much in this case imo

[spark valve]

it's relevant context and absolutely could motivate them to adjust the worldbuilding accordingly

[lethal burrow]

themes and all that

[lethal burrow]

what does life blood represent than wise guy

[spark valve]

lifeblood isn't really present enough in the narrative to have a clear symbolic nature

[lapis creek]

thats true im just responding to this and saying that it makes sense that people would be dissatisfied if there is a gap between the magic system and the dialogue, even if it is in service of e.g. the narrative

[spark valve]

things can represent things that doesn't mean literally everything has a deeper thematic meaning

[vestal swan]

Steroids

[real crater]

And like extra life

[lethal burrow]

but maybe that in itself is representative of something in how it's focus is wayleayd

[raven condor]

Really hope hallownest is mentioned decently frequently in the game

[spark valve]

I'm not sure how much of a gap there really is and you kind of just handwave jiji anyways because of respawn being noncanon but sure

[lethal burrow]

Maybe this is pointing to steel soul being Canon

[spark valve]

it is in that it lacks a noncanon gameplay mechanic

[lapis creek]

true but it's still strange to me that the magic system doesn't currently reflect what jiji is saying. some handwaving is done. On a related note im not saying they should elaborate, because it's a whole can of worms

[spark valve]

but that doesn't really change the existence of jiji's dialogue or the weirdness of it

[spark valve]

I think jiji works well enough to make her mechanic not seem overtly immersion breaking but you should just not think about it too hard because it will inevitably not work

or at least not about the specific mechanics

[lapis creek]

yeah i agree

[spark valve]

the only thing I'd decisively take out of it is void and regret being tied (not necessarily on a diegetic level) but only because that's corroborated a bunch

[lapis creek]

i suppose the shade's journal entry isn't diegetically drawing a relationship between the void and stains it's just hinting at one and the knight (maybe) put that together

[spark valve]

a lot of the journal entries don't really exist

[lapis creek]

theres so much plausible deniability for the void/regret thing that it would be fine for them to not explore it at all

[spark valve]

it's also a weird powerful magic thing it doesn't have to be understood or necessarily understandable (even if that can be a lazy out)

[lapis creek]

thats true but usually when hunter says a thing it's relevant in some sense right

[foggy fractal]

has anyone compared the silksong map (or at least what we've seen of it from the trailer) to hk's map ?

[vestal swan]

I would love for it to have an origin I just don't want it to be that one

[lapis creek]

which here it is because it's an echo of a past life, but not necessarily because it's void

[spark valve]

for most of them there's something the knight can draw connections to, I guess it might know its own shade exists and be able to draw connections to it

[spark valve]

sure if you just evaluate the text and take the knight as a comprehender out of the equation

[vestal swan]

Way bigger iirc

[lapis creek]

i would actually not want them to elaborate on it and this explanation is my favourite if we must have one

i think it's better as just a force of nature that has been there forever

[spark valve]

it's probably one of the better candidate explanations

[vestal swan]

I would rather it be connected to its own realm and it's getting summoned through dark magic

[lapis creek]

i dont think this can happen canonically as early as it does

[spark valve]

I wouldn't expect so either but eh it's unclear the extent to which the knight does or doesn't know what it is

[foggy fractal]

I'd love to see someone try to overlay it over hk's map but I have no idea how one would make it scale accurately

[spark valve]

you can have them side by side it's not nothing

[vestal swan]

Well the main thing people point out is how much of it you can fit on the screen at once

[foggy fractal]

mhm hm it is very wide

[spark valve]

worth noting a lot of the 'empty space' in the ss one probably actually has stuff in it

this part in particular is probably not actually empty

[lapis creek]

oh yeah look at that floating pin near far fields

[spark valve]

same with under the marrow potentially

[lapis creek]

i would be so happy if there were still an area called forest of bones

[foggy fractal]

yeah Hunter's March looks very very empty rn

[spark valve]

there are also markers on things that could be entrances that the player couldn't access at the time

[foggy fractal]

its just one giant hall way 😭

[spark valve]

well

this might be ant colo

[lapis creek]

the ecological consequences of overhunting

[foggy fractal]

true that

[spark valve]

I think it's profoundly likely that there's a good amount of stuff in this part of the map that's not drawn on yet

[lapis creek]

deeper docks

[foggy fractal]

deepest docks 🥶

[spark valve]

iirc that's the closed door in the demo at the bottom of deep docks, seems plausible it will open

[foggy fractal]

man I can't believe within 13 days we'll have some of these answers

[quartz salmon]

I think we've seen like 1/3rd of the map with that shot

The coral area the citadel the dusty rocky area the snowy area all that is missing

[lapis creek]

there is an option to pan down

[spark valve]

yes the screen isn't all the way at the bottom but there's a chance it's very close to it so I wouldn't put much stock in that alone

there do seem to be paths down (or into the space beneath areas there) though

[lapis creek]

theres likely more we havent seen, yesterday the new screenshots showed off a completely new area with pink lightning

[quartz salmon]

That's why I'm saying this is abt 1/3

[spark valve]

idk about new area they are barnacles

[foggy fractal]

crazy to think theres so much we don't know yet as well

[lethal burrow]

I can't wait for the final boss of silk song to be revealed to be called silk song

[foggy fractal]

like three different trailers, riddles, magazine, etc

[quartz salmon]

I doubt we've visually seen all the areas either so yeah

[foggy fractal]

we use the silk song to defeat the final boss trust

[quartz salmon]

There's still probably some complete surprise locations

[spark valve]

yup

though that could also just be a one way door

[quartz salmon]

Nothings a one way it's a metroidvania

[spark valve]

metroidvanias make huge use of one way doors to open return paths

[foggy fractal]

iirc we've seen both the rooms to the right and left of bellhart yes ?

[spark valve]

yes

[pseudo lily]

Those walls supported by wooden boards in HK are one way

[quartz salmon]

Oh that's what you mean

Then yeah

[lapis creek]

this is my theory for the deep docks door

[spark valve]

obviously not an exact science but @foggy fractal

[spark valve]

could be

[lapis creek]

idk if the demo disproves this

[spark valve]

I don't think you can open it in the demo

[foggy fractal]

thanks and wow just puts into perspective how big pharloom is gonna be maybe like 1.5x the size of hallownest ?

[spark valve]

maybe more

1.5 almost seems like a conservative estimate

[foggy fractal]

true

[balmy reef]

It seems like The Marrow is just the name for the Boneforest?

Honestly a possibility I hadn’t considered before

[spark valve]

imo the boneforest concept from hk was split into a bunch of areas and is basically an entire region of the map encompassing the marrow, hunter's march, and far fields, with deep docks being built inside it

[balmy reef]

I suppose it makes sense

[lapis creek]

would sort of be consistent with the amount of enemies/bosses i think

[balmy reef]

Interesting theory

I feel like the marrow is the place that we would have thought was actually called the Boneforest tho

[foggy fractal]

hi necro i am bunkering down in ss-lore bc ss-disc is a constant warzone

[spark valve]

sure, but because of mobility the sheer size of the space could be scaled up further

[balmy reef]

Yeah this is chill

[lapis creek]

true

[spark valve]

sure, but things like the ants are in far fields or hunter's march, and we also know the boneforest concept was huge

I agree that parts of the marrow we would have called bone forest I just think that's probably also true of other areas

[balmy reef]

Taking into account the scale, I think 1.5 is reasonable or maybe even a little high

In terms of total size it’ll be much bigger tho because of hornet’s size you’re right

[spark valve]

unless the citadel is tiny I think 1.5 is an incredibly safe bet

specifically talking about like physical map size

[spark valve]

this being the context for the conversation

[balmy reef]

HK is already massive

[lapis creek]

you apparently reach the citadel halfway through the game and im guessing you explore a lot of areas before getting there for the first time

[spark valve]

sure but we've seen a snippet of the SS map that encompasses early to maybe mid game and it's already enormous

[lapis creek]

halfway through the game probably has some asterisks around it though

[balmy reef]

Just looking at the image I feel like the silksong rooms are a little too big to be an exact comparison

[spark valve]

possible it's not precise or anything

[lethal burrow]

True, but that's only if you're doing everything.

You could just hit the three dreamers, then black egg and dingdong done

[balmy reef]

Someone pointed out, I think infi-nerdy

[foggy fractal]

this screenshot, we've seen this room in the 2019 trailer right ? against that boss
wonder if its the same room or they moved the boss somewhere else

[balmy reef]

When hornet opens the map, she still has pretty basic upgrades

Which could imply that ALL of this is still “early game”

[lapis creek]

worth noting that you need crystal heart

[quartz salmon]

I'd say the map is gonna be 2 times the size of the first game so the shot we got in the trailer + another portion of that size

[lapis creek]

and unless you can do fga you need either tear or shade cloak as well

fga is not that hard though

[spark valve]

I'm not sure I'd expect that room to look remotely the same in the final game

[lethal burrow]

In the interview, they mentioned being extremely careful about spoilers, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've shown us an extremely small snippet of the map

[balmy reef]

2019 trailer is highly subject to change

Some shit is the same like that opening shot

[spark valve]

uuuh that depends on how they took it, in general the existence of dev tools for getting footage makes me pretty skeptical of this sort of argument but they also put pins on the map and shit

[balmy reef]

I’m just thinking along the lines of them wanting to put effort into making the trailer accurate

[spark valve]

the fact that there's no citadel makes me think it's mostly early stuff though (plus just where it is and the fact that it's all stuff we've seen over and over again)

[balmy reef]

Obviously there’s ways to get around it but it’s not a bad assumption

[spark valve]

I definitely think they put the pins there for that purpose

but there's always a chance they just weren't expecting people to put that much stock in the handful of frames where hornet's health bar is on screen and it's not dressed up with tools or anything that would make it look natural in a playthrough

[balmy reef]

Yeah with how they’ve described the citadel, it seems just REACHING it will be a big mid game milestone

[quartz salmon]

My main arguement for this trailer shot of the map being like 1/3rd is that the whole journey is ascending and that stuff is all horizontal

[spark valve]

the general trajectory is going up that doesn't mean the map is rectangular with the longest side being vertical

[lapis creek]

offtopic but was there music in the main menu screen of the demo

[spark valve]

oh lmao

[balmy reef]

Yeah it’s the same room

good call

[spark valve]

it looks a little better at least

[foggy fractal]

true that

[spark valve]

the reflections are cool

I think the new lighting does a lot for it actually

[balmy reef]

they got reflections in the water this time

Shit’s crazy

[spark valve]

and some more stuff hanging from the ceiling

[quartz salmon]

Look at the spikes and objects reflecting on the floor in the second image this game is beautiful

[spark valve]

it's a lot less bland than it was

[quartz salmon]

The whole game is that

Go look at the 2019 reveal trailer and the release trailer everything is like 100% more saturated

[foggy fractal]

also the circular lava icon tool
that's probably the magma bell ?

[spark valve]

could be

there are a few weird things that appear in that spot on the hud

[quartz salmon]

Which is a good call on their part cause the first game fit that desaturated dead look, but the second game you're somewhere alive (yet controlled) teeming with life and foliage and all that

[balmy reef]

Wonder what the solid ring with no direction input means

[spark valve]

I assume this is some sort of a silk stockpile

[spark valve]

I suspect it's to indicate effects of non-red charms

[balmy reef]

Just like a passive thing yeah

Like thorns

Or defenders crest

[spark valve]

there's also this

[foggy fractal]

yep

[spark valve]

which sort of looks desaturated to me though it's of course hard to say that for sure without the normal version

[cold hinge]

Isn’t this one the lava defense tool?

[foggy fractal]

could be

no confirmation though

[spark valve]

it could also be a cold defense tool

actually never mind

[balmy reef]

The UI looks complicated now fs but it’ll be fine if everything is introduced one at a time

[spark valve]

no shot it's not this

[balmy reef]

is that from forge daughter

[spark valve]

that's the magma bell

[cold hinge]

Yeah the center thing looks the same as the hud icon

[balmy reef]

oh true

you’re so real for that

[spark valve]

I hope this one lets you equip multiple skills

it looks like the gear one lets you replace your skill with a red tool so it would make sense to have a crest that works the other way

[balmy reef]

That one seems to be the most endgame one

But I hope they work on making the crests balanced

I wouldn’t want there to be one objective best one

[cold hinge]

Maybe you can upgrade crests to allow for weaker ones to get more powerful at high levels?

[spark valve]

I don't think that will really be necessary as crests themselves aren't inherently tiered (or at least nothing indicates they are)

[foggy fractal]

yeah, also that drill attack Hornet does seems like a new needle art since it doesn't take silk
a few frames before she activates it you can also see charging visual effects like in 2022

the charging visual effects also being on screen for a few frames 😭

[balmy reef]

Feels like unnecessary complexity

Esp since crests already change your moveset, that’s like the main thing

[cold hinge]

Yeah I think you’re right, I was just spitballing

[foggy fractal]

both times they are only on screen for five frames 😭

[spark valve]

I'm not sure about that, though I definitely don't think it's a skill

I guess the needle art could just have that backstep as part of it

though I wonder if there might be like dash versions for each crest as well

it's a weird attack

[spark valve]

I guess

[foggy fractal]

they may be tied to the crest too ?

[spark valve]

it just feels way more mobility focused than the other needle arts we've seen

[spark valve]

almost definitely

[foggy fractal]

yeah they all resemble their crest in some way

[spark valve]

I guess the question is is the drill a standing needle art or are there more, like is there a dash/great/cyclone analogue for each crest

[foggy fractal]

that would be so many needle arts

[spark valve]

so many things for everyone to ignore

(Imagine how much time they spent making red tools for like two people to be curious enough to try)

[severe siren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1359024738176860291/Dynamic_Zoom.gif

The zoom bit is fanmade and not real

[pseudo lily]

She has the nail art charge in like the first frame of that

[foggy fractal]

nah it'll be fine we'll pick up the slack and do 4 112% equivalent save files with every build possible

[idle quiver]

so have we solved whether silksong is a sequel or no

[foggy fractal]

no

[spark valve]

Also I can’t believe I missed the cold damage in spore monastery maybe it is snow and spore monastery

[foggy fractal]

hornet is freezing give her a blanket

[spark valve]

best tool in the game, Cozy Jacket

[foggy fractal]

magma bell wards off lava and heat
cozy jacket wards off the spores and cold TRUST.

do we have a list of all backer content that will be in silksong because they couldn't fit it into hollow knight ?

[spark valve]

don't think so

I've also changed my opinion on the vault keepers maybe not being a boss since they apparently get actual buildup

[blissful harbor]

soul master style intro

[spark valve]

this one's wiggling around in the background of the gamescom clip

[foggy fractal]

this lowkey him
like bro we know its you 😭 stop tying to be mysterious...

[sinful nimbus]

what the devils

[spark valve]

https://youtu.be/pnH9UcLZpbM?t=30

[sinful nimbus]

[foggy fractal]

yep walking around

[idle quiver]

okay so like, a silksong is something that you can obtain in game

because in hk it's called "voidheard edition" and what if silksong follows this naming scheme of the silksong being an endgame item

needed for the true ending

[foggy fractal]

probably not but idk

Hollow Knight: Silksong: Silksong Edition where you have to find the Silksong to get the true ending

seems a little repetitive

also this screenshot to the left

kidna looks like a corpse of a giant bug

[spark valve]

I don't see it but I'm inclined to think any big shapes are more likely to be massive gravestones

[vestal swan]

Crowsworn ref

Are you saying you see a giant corpse in that image

[foggy fractal]

maybe

wonder what those lines could be then

[foggy fractal]

trust the vision

[spark valve]

I still don't see anything but we know there's a lot of like scaffolding in that area

[quiet briar]

So this is Nuu right. Like Unn? They don’t look tooooo different

[spark valve]

this kinda shit

[foggy fractal]

true

we've seen a lot of scaffolding

[spark valve]

or here with the stuff in front

[sly skiff]

Is that barbed wire up top

[spark valve]

doesn't look like it

looks like a bunch of these or similar

[foggy fractal]

yeah these guys are probably in the same general area/faction

[sinful nimbus]

my goat

[foggy fractal]

this guy too

[sinful nimbus]

their name is smoocher susie though

[sly skiff]

Based on the pitchfork and windmill this could be like a farming village?

Or an old one before the people went mad

[foggy fractal]

the jokerpsa usage has gone way up ever since the trailer released lmao

[sly skiff]

I still wonder what ||phantom|| will end up being

Considering we have seen nothing about them other than the character itself

[blissful harbor]

truly the most interesting reveal imo
||even over the everbloom||

[spark valve]

the most interesting one is ||weaver effigy because there's actually enough information that it means something||

[blissful harbor]

boo weavers are lame and boring

[spark valve]

no u

[vestal swan]

Where did this backpack image come from, also that's Susie the smoocher

[quiet briar]

Found it via Reddit, I think it’s from steam db though

[foggy fractal]

https://steamdb.info/app/1030300/communityitems/

[vestal swan]

Hmmmmm

The backpack is very snail-like but I still think hermit crab

[rain pebble]

the kiss snail

[pseudo lily]

Just based on the trading cards from HK, I'll bet that Phantom is either a reocurring NPC or a early- to mid-game boss.

[royal fjord]

I can’t wait to see hornet eventually warm up to the kiss snail

It’ll be 10\10 character development

[pseudo lily]

Hornuu will slowly phase out Lacenet

[spark valve]

could very well be something you fight before entering citadel

[spark valve]

it's a kissing bug

[lapis creek]

ughhh but i thought that was lace

[nova oriole]

i love nuu so much

[spark valve]

lace 2 could be towards the end of the citadel too, or after phantom, etc

[mighty oyster]

They look like a lil wyrm

[pseudo lily]

Lace seems like this game's Hornet. You fight her once early game as a warmup, and then again in the lategame.

[vestal swan]

With the multiple possible recurring bosses some of them might come to our side and we have different branching boss fights

There's like two or three lace fights right

[lapis creek]

yeah but where is the elevator going

[vagrant anchor]

The bosses kinda have buddhist style flaming halos

[pseudo lily]

We know of 2 so far. The one in Deep Docks, and the one amongst the flowers.

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is basically lace

[pseudo lily]

?

[pseudo lily]

Star what do you mean by this

[sinful nimbus]

Its a mix of Lace and Hornet with weird horns and tails

[pseudo lily]

Their mask does look really similar to hornets

[spark valve]

I wouldn't say the part that is there is the most distinctive

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is a kitsune