Ultimate universe Spoilers | Marvel Discord | Page 1

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:17 AM

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short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:18 AM

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@analog parrot It seems like they're all part of one union though, and that things in one part might affect the others.

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So if Captain Britan and his underlings can't get things under control, it could get out of hand real fast.

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And then Hulk could get involved.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:18 AM

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i mean they're still part of the council

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so they still talk to each other

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but the most i could see hulk doing is maybe a hostile take over if things start going south for our french boy

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:19 AM

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I really don't want Captain Britain to get the short end of the stick.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:19 AM

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I can imagine that without Maker watching over them they might try to grab more power and fight each other

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:19 AM

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he has all of Europe to fall back on

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:20 AM

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analog parrot he has all of Europe to fall back on

That didn't stop him from losing his eye to a mere novice.

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:20 AM

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subtle summit I can imagine that without Maker watching over them they might try to grab more ...

Hulk seems smarter than that.

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He'd probably take care of business.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:20 AM

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also something I really like is that Ultimate Spider-Man is kinda going in real time

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:21 AM

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Well I wasn’t saying hulk specifically

Honestly I kinda see Magik grabbing first

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:21 AM

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last month with #1 it was January this month with #2 it's February

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:21 AM

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analog parrot also something I really like is that Ultimate Spider-Man is kinda going in real ...

I both like and find it kind of unnerving. Things are going so fast the Ultimates will be here in no time.

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:21 AM

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subtle summit Well I wasn’t saying hulk specifically Honestly I kinda see Magik grabbing fir...

I look forward to her getting wrecked, then.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:21 AM

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analog parrot last month with #1 it was January this month with #2 it's February

yeah her and the other 2 are the only ones not busy

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:22 AM

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Also, does anyone else find Madam Viper to be an odd choice for the Maker's council?

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:22 AM

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616 magik is crazy powerful and a contestant to be the sorcerer supreme

If 6160 magik is similar she could be the most dangerous member of the council

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:23 AM

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Hulk is dealing with stuff in North America, Captain Britain is also, The Moon Knights are dealing with Wakanda, Hi No Kuni is where UXM is taking place, and South America just doesn't border it

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:23 AM

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subtle summit 616 magik is crazy powerful and a contestant to be the sorcerer supreme If 6160...

The fact that the Maker was able to contain strange gives me the impression that some magic suppressing technology exists.

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Also, it really seems like Hulk is the Maker's right hand man.

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So he'd probably have some access.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:24 AM

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I imagine Maker used his Time Machine to jump strange before he was trained

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:24 AM

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so Magik, Colossus, and the other one probably has The City dead to rights

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:24 AM

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subtle summit I imagine Maker used his Time Machine to jump strange before he was trained

If he did, I'd imagine he would just kill him rather contain him and the eye of agomoto.

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He killed the FF.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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yeah but killing the F4 is personal

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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Is the Maker really that petty?

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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i imagine he kept everything else

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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short prism Is the Maker really that petty?

yes

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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I imagine he didn't just kill Strange for a good reason.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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he kept the spider i don't see why he wouldn't keep Strange's eye of agomoto

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:25 AM

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Ultimate Susan left him ~~threatened to cut off his man parts~~ and married Ben

So that probably colored his relationship with the F4

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:26 AM

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and then Johnny went to go live with the Parkers right?

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:26 AM

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I don't know, towards the end of the universe it seemed like the Maker's feelings towards the FF were complicated.

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The only person I know he's personal with is Reed.

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It's honestly kind of unsettling how obsessed he is.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:27 AM

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Pretty much, oh and 1610 Kang was Susan who told him to kill his parents and ruin his reputation

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:27 AM

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I wonder if their familiarity with the Kang of 1610 will be relevant.

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:27 AM

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analog parrot and then Johnny went to go live with the Parkers right?

For a period.

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I think he eventually joined the Ultimates.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:28 AM

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neat

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:28 AM

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Back when Miles lead the team maybe? But I don’t remember him there

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:28 AM

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right and Bobby went with Shadowcat to do mutant stuff

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:28 AM

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I think the real Ultimates were still a thing.

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Just not with a book.

analog parrot Feb 22, 2024, 5:28 AM

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so all that was left at the Parker house was May and Gwen

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they went on vacation or something

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:29 AM

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analog parrot so all that was left at the Parker house was May and Gwen

Yeah, I believe so.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:29 AM

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short prism I think the real Ultimates were still a thing.

Not while Miles was in charge, but I think they come back after secret wars

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:30 AM

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Maybe.

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Speaking of Secret Wars, do you think we're going to deal with one in 2 years?

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When the City opens?

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I was wondering why the Maker wouldn't just force Howard to make a time machine himself while he's in there, but then I remembered that 6160 Reed was also involved.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:31 AM

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It wouldn’t be a secret wars without a beyonder

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:31 AM

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I'm guessing that will be Kang or Howard.

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Do you guys think the Illuminati will show up for it?

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:31 AM

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I don’t think so

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:32 AM

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That card he gave Miles isn't going to be for nothing.

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I feel it.

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I feel like Hickman wouldn't have done that for no reason.

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Maybe it's how the Illuminati tracks him down.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:33 AM

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short prism I feel like Hickman wouldn't have done that for no reason.

True. Chekhov's gun right there

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:34 AM

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Indeed.

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It's going to be confusing having three Reeds.

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Also, I have to wonder how much of the 616 Universe is going to get involved.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:35 AM

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Hopefully not much at all

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:36 AM

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You know, I feel like the cover of Ultimate Invasion might have been foreshadowing now.

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Miles and the Illuminati crossing over.

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Not now, but later.

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It's always weird to have Miles be involved in those huge multiversal wars or galactic events, though. It really feels like a fish out of water scenario.

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The only thing left that I don't think has been brought up is the relevance of Ultimate Black Panther.

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I guess Tony and Reed might just go there and do the usual thing of recruiting T'challa to the Avengers/Ultimates.

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But beyond that it feels more removed than X-men for me.

subtle summit Feb 22, 2024, 5:41 AM

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Still need to read that one so I can’t say

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 5:42 AM

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It's good, but feels like it's going to be fairly focused on the internal Wakandan conflicts.

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At least in my opinion.

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Anyhow, thank you both for your perspectives as well as all the info on the Ultimate Universe. I appreciate it immensely, as well as wish you the best of luck with your respective weeks.

short prism Feb 22, 2024, 8:07 AM

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Hey, I saw a pretty good MJ theory on a forum.

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That, since MJ is seemingly a prominent business owner according to covers, she'll be offered to become the sub-boss of the (seemingly former)NYC region once Kingpin is defeated, and work under Captain Britain as this particular region's "Queen".

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In a twisted parallel to Peter being offered power by Tony, MJ would be offerred power by the Maker's Council.

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Having an MJ as a villain would be pretty interesting.

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So I hope some variation of the theory comes to pass.

steep mulch Feb 23, 2024, 5:20 AM

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I think that would be interesting, but sadly given the trauma so many people have with Pete and MJ’s 616 relationship I feel like it would hard to pull off right now

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Also I just got through USM#2 and I love that May is the first to find out about Spider-Man

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:27 AM

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steep mulch I think that would be interesting, but sadly given the trauma so many people hav...

I don't think marvel writers care about what the fans want.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:28 AM

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I mean they do to a degree, they want to make sure the fans enjoy the product and buy the comics

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:29 AM

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I believe there are interviews with some people at marvel saying statistically that controversy sells more comics, so I'm not sure I'd go that far.

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It's worked wonders for Zeb Wells Spider-Man.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:30 AM

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Controversial selling does work at times, but it can push too far and cause it to crash

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:30 AM

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short prism It's worked wonders for Zeb Wells Spider-Man.

It’s ASM, no matter who’s writing it or what’s going on the book is going to make money

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:30 AM

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subtle summit Controversial selling does work at times, but it can push too far and cause it t...

Maybe, but even beyond that angle, Hickman's other work like Ultimate Invasion and GODS being what they are despite being fairly divisive gives me the feeling that he tells the story he wants to tell.

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And at some point he's going to Hickman it up to the point that it's going to bother some people.

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I mean that in a positive sense.

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But not everyone likes that stuff.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:32 AM

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Luckily for everyone involved the stories Hickman wants to tell tend to be good stories that fans enjoy

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:32 AM

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True, I just think that hardcore I want Peter to be happy fans might be let down down the line.

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Given how mercilessly he just offed 6160 Iron Man and killed most of the FF of 6160, I doubt he's pulling his punches.

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Though it's good that he's at least lulled people into a false sense of security for now.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:33 AM

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Personally I think he killed off the F4 because he didn’t want to get pulled into writing them again

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:34 AM

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Eh...I'd say that's a...stretch.

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I think it's more of a thing regarding the Maker's character.

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Wanting to put a version of Reed close to 616 through similar experiences of losing everything to the Maker.

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To see if he'd end up the same.

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He even talks about that in Ultimate Invasion issue 1.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:35 AM

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That’s possible

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:35 AM

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I think it's not only possible, but likely.

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Hickman's too good of a writer to not do that deliberately in my eyes.

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He even spelled it out.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:36 AM

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We’ll see as the ultimate universe continues

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:36 AM

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I think the revenge Doom will take on Maker will be so much sweeter bc Maker killed his family

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:37 AM

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subtle summit We’ll see as the ultimate universe continues

I'm kind of surprised you didn't note the parallels already to the original Ultimate Universe's Maker progression.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:37 AM

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The original maker lost everything because he simped for Kang

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:38 AM

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It's not a why I mean, but a what.

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In both universes he lost his chosen family, his status, and was left fairly isolated and alone at what's likely the lowest point of his life.

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In 1610 he was working for Nick Fury, 6160's Reed is working for the Maker.

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There are other things, but my point is there are a lot of similarities.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:39 AM

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Ok let me put it this way, 1610 Reed was self destructive and lost everything until he became the maker

6160 Reed had his life taken from him and forced to become Doom

I don’t think Maker is trying to make another maker, I think he was trying to break Reed

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:41 AM

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To prove that he's no better.

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the-maker-vs-the-illuminati-ultimate-invasion-v0-uuaf0sxwjt7b1.png

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This kind of comparing of himself to 616 Reed really comes off as him wanting to prove something.

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It's not a matter of the why.

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Or the how.,

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It's the tragedies suffered.

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Reed chose to be self destructive after losing the FF, this Reed didn't.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:42 AM

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Oh off topic but do you have the chart that lists the heroes maker has depowered?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:43 AM

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Not all of it, there were multiple pages I believe.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:43 AM

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I’m not sure, but I want to look at the one that lists Peter and Hank Pym

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:44 AM

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I believe they're both just contained.

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Which can mean a lot of things.

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Considering Howard was just Iron Manning about.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:44 AM

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subtle summit I’m not sure, but I want to look at the one that lists Peter and Hank Pym

I could probably find it on MU

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:45 AM

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Getting back to the Maker thing though, I feel like this was definitely him trying to put an adjacent Reed to 616 through losing what meant most to him like 1610 Reed lost the Fantastic Four. Trying to prove something.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:45 AM

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short prism I believe they're both just contained.

I’m thinking more about the “biological catalyst” part

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:45 AM

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Ah, I see.

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it might have been under the list of artifacts the Maker has.

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Not sure about what's on there though, beyond the Eye of Agomoto.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:47 AM

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Blood samples and Pym particle generators I believe

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:47 AM

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Yeah, I remember the generators part.

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I wasn't sure if it was Pym or something else though.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:48 AM

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subtle summit I’m not sure, but I want to look at the one that lists Peter and Hank Pym

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:49 AM

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Huh, nevermind.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:50 AM

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subtle summit Ok let me put it this way, 1610 Reed was self destructive and lost everything un...

Going back to this though, do you really thing that the similarities to 1610 Reed and the Maker's questioning of whether they'd turn out the same from issue 1 was all coincidence?

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:50 AM

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So Hank, Janet, and Peter are all in different nodes…and as far as I recall doom only stole one node

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:50 AM

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short prism Going back to this though, do you really thing that the similarities to 1610 Ree...

I honestly must’ve glossed over that part

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:51 AM

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Why is Janet’s Pym Generator in 1 and Hank’s in 6? Who organized this shit?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:51 AM

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subtle summit I honestly must’ve glossed over that part

I'm kind of surpised, Maker is an S-Tier antagonist, always steals the show for me. Though I guess sometimes Hickman stuffs in so many details that it's easy to lose track.

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Ultimate Invasion in particular is a dense tome.

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Both in references and literal lore.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:52 AM

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Here’s something that’s interesting Hulk’s blood was in that same node as Peter’s spider

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:52 AM

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It's kind of weird that Maker took it despite the Hulk still existing.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:53 AM

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Maybe the Ultimates are getting a Hulk?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:53 AM

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I think that'd be too op personally, also wouldn't fit the Ultimates seeming theme of espionage and doing things under the nose of the Maker's council.

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:53 AM

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Not really, with hulk’s blood he could make another hulk

Which is useful in case banner becomes less than effective

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:53 AM

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Maybe they find General Ross or find that guy who is Bruce’s best friend

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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Not sure.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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short prism I think that'd be too op personally, also wouldn't fit the Ultimates seeming the...

I mean sometimes they need to fight

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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If it's Jennifer Walters, I could see that working though.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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Oh true

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It might be Jen

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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Blood Sample is her origin.

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Sort of.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

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It pretty much is

subtle summit Feb 23, 2024, 6:55 AM

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No idea if they have hulk blood, since we know know Hank and Janet will have their powers in June it’s possible all the nodes are mixed up

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:55 AM

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Or they pulled off another heist.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:55 AM

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Oh yeah FCBD book might be another heist

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:56 AM

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You know it's kind of ironic, the original Ultimates was all about being in the public and performance for funding and promoting their brand/image.

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Even the Hulk in 1610 was an inside job.

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But here the Ultimates seem to be more espionage esque, and rather working as the government, they're rebelling against it.

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It's interesting.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:57 AM

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Maybe they get Hank and Janet’s stuff here

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 6:58 AM

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Perhaps.

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I kind of like how this universe feels more grounded than 616 even with Asgardians and all.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 6:59 AM

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And yk countries don’t exist

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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I guess I should say that I mean it feels a lot less superheroey and more like it takes place in an actual world with more realistic battles in scale most of the time.

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At least to me.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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analog parrot Maybe they get Hank and Janet’s stuff here

This kind of fight in 616 would probably be a lot more bombastic.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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short prism I guess I should say that I mean it feels a lot less superheroey and more like i...

I mean that’s kinda the point

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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I know that was the point of 1610, not sure it is for this.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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Maker wiped out 99% of superheroes so it kinda does feel very much more like real life

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

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Oh, good point.

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Very good point.

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That's genius, hadn't thought about that angle.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:01 AM

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It’s weird how there wasn’t more of an outcry over Spider-Man though

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It just seems like another Tuesday with him running around

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:02 AM

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Yeah, they seem to be deliberately starting out light with the 6160 elements when it comes to him.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:02 AM

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Yeah

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:02 AM

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But judging by Captain Britain's appearance, I think it's going to evolve to the point it involves all of those different elements.

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The Maker's Council power structure seems like something that will be explored a lot in the book.

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Especially with the NAU being run by three members.

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I do wonder if there's a narrative purpose to this, like Peter thinking being a superhero isn't that big of a deal and just another hobby or job, taking the Spider without considering the repercussions for his family or his life, with it seeming all butterflies and rainbows for a while.

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Only for the reality of things to set in later, with that reality also involving a lot of 6160 lore elements.

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So as peter is coming to terms with what being a superhero means, he would also be coming to terms with how the world truly works.

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The solicits for coming issues allude to something like that as well.

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The calm before the storm.

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And when the storm comes, I'll enjoy saying I told you so to the people who thought the calm would last.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:08 AM

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He does seem very lax about it

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Like bro got thrown into a trash can by Shocker and just went home

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Like a “dang guess I’ll get him tomorrow but like I got work in the morning”

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:09 AM

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Yep, that kind of stuff really makes me feel like Hickman is trying to make the reader feel as relaxed as Peter without considering how things could or likely would go wrong by making that kind of decision.

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Though I have to wonder how people would react if he pulled out the rug like that.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:10 AM

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I think he’s gonna get humbled real fast by Kingpin

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:10 AM

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I don't think it's a matter of humbling, I think it's a matter of realism.

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In this world the Maker's council seems to be everywhere.

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So it's not hard to imagine someone going after his family.

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Especially now when he's not careful.

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Would people be mad at that?

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:12 AM

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analog parrot I think he’s gonna get humbled real fast by Kingpin

This is more coming from one of the covers showing Peter and Kingpin fighting

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:12 AM

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Yeah, but Duggary(Captain Britain) already knows about the Spider-Man, and wants him taken care of.

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When Kingpin goes down, he's going to really get on it.

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Seems like the natural progression.

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If Kingpin doesn't go down, he'll probably go after him.

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Which also puts his family in danger.

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No matter which way you slice it, it looks like Pete's going to get screwed.

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And it's going to be glorious.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:14 AM

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This is the cover of #3

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Or it was

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:15 AM

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I recall. It's just that messing with the Maker's council is like messing with the world government.

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He's eventually going to attract big fish.

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Or Monk Hulk will step in and take care of business, since he was also on one of the covers.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:15 AM

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But idk

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Now it’s this apparently

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:16 AM

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It could be both.

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Remember Captain Britain saying use the resources you are given.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:16 AM

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Yeah but the first cover I showed is just not on League of Comics Geeks

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:16 AM

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Hmm, interesting.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:16 AM

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Ikr

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Maybe stuff changed?

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Or maybe LoCG is just being dumb

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:17 AM

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50/50.

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Beyond that though, I'm kind of curious, how would you feel if Hickman put this Peter through the wringer?

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He genuinely seems like a nice person for once that doesn't have angst and is emotionally matured and developed.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:18 AM

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I mean I feel at some point there needs to be something that happens to Peter that shows that superheroing isn’t just a hobby

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:18 AM

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I feel like if this Peter was more intelligent this wouldn't have happened.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:19 AM

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Like whether that’s just him getting his shit kicked in by Kingpin or Bullseye or having a family member die something needs to happen to him

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:19 AM

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It's true.

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And it's going to kind of ruin the comfort food vibe of the book.

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Hope it's well received.

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Normally I'd like Peter being put through the wringer, since that's when he has some of his best moments.

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But this Peter feels...different.

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I think it'd be more sad than it is inspiring.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:20 AM

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little off track but i believe this probably confirms what mj does

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it's just a variant but it's more than the book has given so far

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:21 AM

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You know how the NAU is a technocratic nation, right?

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Judging by UI.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:21 AM

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short prism You know how the NAU is a technocratic nation, right?

sure

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:22 AM

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I feel like MJ being an entrepeneur in that way could lead them to the Maker's Council.

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Or being enstated as a Fisk replacement.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:22 AM

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yeah this still completly falls in line with your theory

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:22 AM

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It's not mine, but yeah.

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It seems like MJ and Peter will parallel one another.

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And it might result in one being forced to give up their happiness or the other.

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Or them splitting up/having problems.

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One offerred power by the heroes trying to shake the corrupt status quo, and one offerred power by those who seek to maintai it.

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Both under the same house, none the wiser.

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That'd be a pretty great book.

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So I'm sold.

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@molten obsidian

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:25 AM

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maybe that will work

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:25 AM

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I can see it now

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Thanks

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:25 AM

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awesome

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:25 AM

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No problem.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:26 AM

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short prism One offerred power by the heroes trying to shake the corrupt status quo, and one...

Going back a bit, the premise I described here would be genuinely good.

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It'd also provide a good way for them to talk about and argue about the state of the world.

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Which could give us more world building.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:26 AM

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Oh so I saw a comment going around that Reed is the new Doom, is that true?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:27 AM

#

Yeah, did you read Ultimate Invasion?

#

The french guy that's Fisk's boss is from there.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:27 AM

#

I watched Comicstorian's vid on it

#

Also Reed as Doom is sick

#

I love that

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:28 AM

#

yeah he look cool

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:28 AM

#

molten obsidian I watched Comicstorian's vid on it

Hmm, hope that's enough for the long term, since sometimes videos leave out small details that become big ones later.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:28 AM

#

True

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:28 AM

#

In case it comes to that point, you should know the reading order's Ultimate Invasion #1-4, Ultimate Universe #1, and then the rest.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:28 AM

#

I do know the jist of the story tho

#

How was Black Panther? Heard it was pretty good

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

It's good in my opinion.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

i liked the first issue

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

Also heard Storm is in it

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

She seemingly is.

#

Barely.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

Still, she's there lol

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

yeah it was like the last couple pages

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:29 AM

#

It's kind of like saying the Green Goblin is in USM#2.

#

He's there, technically.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:30 AM

#

short prism It's kind of like saying the Green Goblin is in USM#2.

Dude I know his design is basically from the 2002 movie, but I love his design a lot

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:30 AM

#

I don't know, the 2002 movie looks like a design out of Power Rangers.

#

This looks like a power suit.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:30 AM

#

apparently in this universe Storm is famous enough for a child in Japan to idolize her

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:31 AM

#

Can I not send pics here?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:31 AM

#

You might need perms which you get later.

#

Not sure.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:31 AM

#

short prism You might need perms which you get later.

That would make sense

#

I was about to send the panel of Goblin from issue 2 anyways just to look at it more lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:32 AM

#

You know what that reminds me of.

#

The way Goblin found out Parker's identity.

#

In 616.

#

He followed him from high up and watched him take off his mask.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:32 AM

#

Also, I really hope he is a good guy in this universe. Seeing Spidey and Goblin being a duo would be sick

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:33 AM

#

I don't know, Goblin seems really terroristy.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:33 AM

#

Well it's still Goblin

#

Actually no it's not lol

#

I hope the Goblin Queen doesn't show up in this

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:34 AM

#

Goblin seems tech based, so it's unlikely probably.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:34 AM

#

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:34 AM

#

It's so clean!

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:34 AM

#

Speaking of which, the Goblin's extreme measures against the Council kind of makes me wonder if there will be more factions beyond the Council and The Ultimates.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:35 AM

#

molten obsidian I hope the Goblin Queen doesn't show up in this

Goblin Queen is Madelyne Pryor, Queen Goblin is the red one

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:35 AM

#

short prism Speaking of which, the Goblin's extreme measures against the Council kind of mak...

Imagine a variant of the Midnught Suns

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:35 AM

#

I'm mainly thinking of anti-heroes.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:35 AM

#

I remember bc when she first get's introduced Peter says "Oh Queen Goblin like Green Goblin."

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:36 AM

#

analog parrot Goblin Queen is Madelyne Pryor, Queen Goblin is the red one

I'm ngl, I thought there was just the one lol. I'm still fairly new to comics lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:36 AM

#

X-Men is a complicated web, so even if you weren't I wouldn't blame you.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:36 AM

#

yeah it's a very similar name

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:36 AM

#

short prism X-Men is a complicated web, so even if you weren't I wouldn't blame you.

Speaking of X-Men, super excited to read Ultimate X-Men next month

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:37 AM

#

Yeah, it seems like it'll have minimal involvement from Ultimate Invasion/Ultimate Universe.

#

So it should be pretty fresh.

#

Especially since the Maker didn't talk about mutants for some reason.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:37 AM

#

This universe seems to be needed as of late lol

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

left is Goblin Queen who is a clone of Jean Gray and right is Queen Goblin who was Ben Reilly's therapist who got Norman Osborn's sins put into her

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

Every issue seems to be good so far

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

molten obsidian Every issue seems to be good so far

Yep.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

analog parrot left is Goblin Queen who is a clone of Jean Gray and right is Queen Goblin who w...

Oh yes because that's a normal sentence lol

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

lol ik ik

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

Ultimate Invasion was pretty divisive until people realized why it existed, though.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:38 AM

#

Yeah a lot of people don't like The Maker

#

I personally don't mind him

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:39 AM

#

People actually seemed to take issue with the complex plot and focus on world building.

#

With little to emotionally invest in for them.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:39 AM

#

Spider-Man seems to be doing that job well

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:39 AM

#

Indeed, which is probably why people changed their minds.

#

I didn't mind it, personally.

#

But I get that some people need that in a story.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

I do like the fan casting of Maker being Miles Teller

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

I love heart felt stories I can get attached too

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

The Fan4stic guy?

#

If so, yes, he would.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

considering when he played Reed it was based on the Ultimate comics

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

molten obsidian I love heart felt stories I can get attached too

Hmm, understandable.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:40 AM

#

short prism The Fan4stic guy?

yeah

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:41 AM

#

I need to read the latest Super-Man run since apparently it's really good

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:41 AM

#

I mostly read elseworlds/black label/out of continuity stuff for DC, so I'm not familiar.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:41 AM

#

I know dc talk but I heard the story and world building in it are amazing

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:41 AM

#

Hmm, interesting.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:41 AM

#

My friend said it's one of the best Super-Man runs

#

It's written by Joshua Williamson

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:42 AM

#

I would read it, but I'm not a fan of the artist.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:42 AM

#

Joshua Williamson is great

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:42 AM

#

I don't doubt the story's good, though.

#

I could believe it.

#

Speaking of story though, Xeno, I'm kind of curious about your thoughts on something.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:43 AM

#

Marco Checchetto needs to draw everything

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:43 AM

#

Yeah?

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:43 AM

#

I love his style

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:43 AM

#

molten obsidian Marco Checchetto needs to draw everything

Everyone's too sexy for my taste, but yes, it's good in my eyes as well.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:44 AM

#

analog parrot Yeah?

What do you think they're going to for The Ultimates, since they can't just summarize it in one page without missing a lot of important and relevant character related info and motivations from Ultimate Invasion/Universe.

#

From the solicits it seems like a direct continuation as well.

#

So I'm not sure what they're going to do since so far they've been avoiding telling new readers to read that stuff.

#

Like, the Howard Stark Iron Man stuff feels like it will be EXTREMELY important.

#

Especially the note to his son at the end.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:45 AM

#

They could do a few pages summarizing it

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

If anything I think it’s going to show what happened right after and Ultimate Universe #1 and probably have like a little montage of what they’ve been up to

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

Like 4 at most

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

There are also a lot of relevant data pages.

#

So I'm not sure 4 is enough.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

Obviously thawing out Cap and recruiting Hank and Jan

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

Hmm.

#

That seems risky.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:46 AM

#

But after that I think the story is going to be heavy on a rebellion

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:47 AM

#

True, but as you and Martian pointed out, there are small details like the Catalyst data pages, and the hero data pages, that are important.

#

What will they do about those.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:47 AM

#

Idk we will have to see

#

But something interesting is that I believe when this book comes out Peter will have caught up with future Tony

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:48 AM

#

Indeed.

#

I can't see a way out of this without saying "Read Ultimate Invasion & Ultimate Universe to find out more true believers", though.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:48 AM

#

lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:49 AM

#

Like, I have to imagine reading USM#2 without knowing why the French guy matters results in a lot of stakes being lost.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:49 AM

#

I do think the Ultimates are gonna try a stage a rebellion Star Wars style and try to make the world right again

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:49 AM

#

I think it'll be more espionage esque, but we will see.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:49 AM

#

Rebellion can be loud and sneaky

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:49 AM

#

True.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:50 AM

#

Some of them will fight others can be spies

#

Maybe that’s where the Hulk blood will come into play they definitely need someone to fight Banner

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:51 AM

#

I see this Hulk as Lex Luthorian.

#

Too much so to dirty his hands with petty violence.

#

His scheming with the Stark/Stane satellite proved that to me.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:51 AM

#

That makes sense

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:51 AM

#

The boy just gave us America

#

Still stays with me.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:51 AM

#

Yeah

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:51 AM

#

Isn't America different in this universe?

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Yeah

#

It doesn’t exist

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Yes, it's the North American Union.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Oh

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Or a part of it.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Which got split up

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Yep.

#

It's a long story.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Is there a map?

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

There is

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

For before Ultimate Universe or after?

#

Ultimate Universe #1 reuslts in a change in territories

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:52 AM

#

Could I get both? Could spot the differences between them

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:53 AM

#

Sure.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:53 AM

#

Thank you

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:53 AM

#

I believe they're in this channel, let me check.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:53 AM

#

#

That is post Ultimate Universe #1

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:54 AM

#

This is before.

opinions-on-the-geopolitics-of-the-new-marvel-universe-v0-wiz5hif4lzub1.png

#

When it was run by Stark and Stane.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:54 AM

#

so here's who owns what:
Captain Britain (Henri Dugarry):
The European Coalition
Regional Governors
Fiefdoms
Emmanuel Da Costa:
The Society of South America
Regional Clubs
Fractional Cultures
Lord Khonshu and Ra (Moon Knights):
The Upper and Lower Kingdoms
Regional Dynasties
Local Temples
Piotr Rasputin, Illyana Rasputina, and Arkady Rossovich:
The Eurasian Republic
Regional Directors
Local Schools
Silver Samurai (Kenuichio Harada), Sun Emporer (Shiro Yoshida) & Viper:
Hi No Kuni
Daimyos
Hulk (Bruce Banner):
The Children of Eternal Light
The Shadows of the Immortal Hand
The Maker (Reed Richards):
The City
Latverian Territories

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:54 AM

#

Ok yeah I've seen the before one

#

Ooo Silver Samurai is in this universe?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

Yes.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

Also Undiscovered Territory is Wakanda

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

Oh didn't even realize Hulk owns some territories

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

Hulk is basically the main villain right now it seems.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

Oooo ok

#

That's cool

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:55 AM

#

He was the one to pull the satellite play.

#

He was the one to take advantage and not get hysterical.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:56 AM

#

Hulk basically owns China, India, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and 1/3 of North America

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:56 AM

#

Holy hell lol

#

So he basically owns a third of the world if not more

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:56 AM

#

Yes.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:56 AM

#

Yep

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:56 AM

#

He's a pretty menacing villain.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:57 AM

#

This universe seems so cool

#

I just love how different it is

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:57 AM

#

Yeah

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:57 AM

#

I have to wonder what they're going to do next time it's time for an Ultimate Universe.

#

Going to be hard to follow up this.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:58 AM

#

Currently the part of North America where New York is is owned by Captain Britain who is a Frenchman

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:58 AM

#

Honestly, I'm fine if this is the last one

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:58 AM

#

Oh yeah, also Captain Britain was involved in the fight for the catalyst containing the spider.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 7:59 AM

#

analog parrot Currently the part of North America where New York is is owned by Captain Britai...

Sooo Captain France lol?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:59 AM

#

Which was in Ultimate Universe #1.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:59 AM

#

molten obsidian Sooo Captain France lol?

There is no Britain, so make of that what you will.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 7:59 AM

#

molten obsidian Sooo Captain France lol?

He is wearing the Union Jack so no? But he’s also French so idk

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 7:59 AM

#

I forget, what's going on in Europe in this universe?

#

What's the region called?

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:00 AM

#

The European Coalition

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:00 AM

#

Yeah, in that case I guess anyone can be Captian Britain when there is no Britain.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:00 AM

#

True

#

But like if there’s no countries why is there a Statue of Liberty?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:01 AM

#

I remember the Maker only altered things from a specific point.

#

I forget the exact year.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:01 AM

#

I think 1963

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:01 AM

#

It had to be post WW2 since Cap was still a thing.

#

That sounds about right.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

Wait, so wouldn't it still be the same Cap, or we don't know yet?

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

Yeah the keys for the map say 1963-2023

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

It would be the default Cap of this universe.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

Yeah

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

But we don't know what the default is here.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

Ok makes sense

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

So it could be like 1610 cap, or 616.

#

Or something new.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:02 AM

#

It's Chris Evans lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:03 AM

#

Chris Evans was pretty 616 Cap inspired I think.

#

So that'd fall under that probably.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:03 AM

#

spideyshrug

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:03 AM

#

He was such a good Cap

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:03 AM

#

I prefer EMH Cap, but to each their own.

#

I kind of have to wonder if Magik's job under the Council is to deal with magic problems.

#

Since they clearly need someone for that.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:05 AM

#

short prism I prefer EMH Cap, but to each their own.

Brian Bloom is a good Cap as well

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:06 AM

#

I agree.

#

He was also in MVC3.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:07 AM

#

short prism I kind of have to wonder if Magik's job under the Council is to deal with magic ...

Most likely

#

She’s the only Magic person around unless you count the Moon Knights

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:08 AM

#

So what are Magik's powers? I know she can open a portal to bascially Hell(?), but that's about it

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:08 AM

#

I think it’s Limbo

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:08 AM

#

Ok so the inbetween

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:08 AM

#

analog parrot She’s the only Magic person around unless you count the Moon Knights

I would count them more under God stuff like the Asgardians.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:08 AM

#

molten obsidian So what are Magik's powers? I know she can open a portal to bascially Hell(?), b...

I think she makes portals that go to limbo and come out at anywhere

#

And she got a sword

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:09 AM

#

molten obsidian So what are Magik's powers? I know she can open a portal to bascially Hell(?), b...

I'm not sure entirely since there status quo has changed around a fair bit over the years. I know they're probably one of the heavy hitters magic wise in Marvel, though.

#

I believe one of the members more well-versed in the said they were a sorcer supreme canidate.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:09 AM

#

So she can open a portal, has a sword, and is just insanely good with magic?

#

Not underminding her btw

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:10 AM

#

There's probably more, but that's what I know of them, yes.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:10 AM

#

I believe she might be the sorcerer supreme in limbo but that also might be entirely false

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:10 AM

#

That'd be cool

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:11 AM

#

I’m not a big X-Men guy so idrk

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:11 AM

#

Same, X-men is too soap opera like for my tastes.

#

I'm glad they're doing something that's not that in 6160.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:11 AM

#

I have the movies and some 2000s animated movies and that's about it for my X-Men knowledge

#

Also had some comics growing up but was too young to really understand it

#

Wish I knew where they were

#

Had some good comics in the collection

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:12 AM

#

You have my condolences.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:12 AM

#

I had a Godzilla one dude

#

It was honestly my favorite one

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:13 AM

#

Hey I was right

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:13 AM

#

Ok that's cool

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:13 AM

#

Indeed.

#

I'll have to be getting some rest soon, but before I do, do you guys have any theories regarding the Ultimate Universe?

#

Beyond that MJ one, and the false-flag theory for Black Panther, I haven't seen many.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:16 AM

#

I really hate to think it, but I think Ben is going to die

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:17 AM

#

Why? He's somewhat emotionally distant from Peter, meaning it wouldn't be as big of a deal as i normally would be probably.

#

He also met peter when he was older in this universe(15).

#

So he's less of a father and more of an uncle.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:18 AM

#

short prism He also met peter when he was older in this universe(15).

What's the age difference?

#

I just know he was taken in young

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:18 AM

#

Oh, basically in most universes Peter ends up with May and Ben when he's younger.

#

It varies from universe to universe, but 15 is particularly old.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:19 AM

#

Yeah that's usually when he gets bit

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:19 AM

#

At least in my experience.

#

But the difference is his parents were alive up to that point.

#

So he didn't grow up with May and Ben.

#

If I'm recalling Ultimate Invasion right, he then moved in with May and Ben.

#

Which means their relationship is diferent.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:20 AM

#

Well I don't want think one of the famiky memeber dies lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:20 AM

#

It honestly seems like JJJ is closer to Peter than Ben.

#

Emotionally speaking.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:20 AM

#

I love JJJ and Ben's relationship

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:21 AM

#

short prism Oh, basically in most universes Peter ends up with May and Ben when he's younger...

It ranges from Peter was an infant baby to like maybe he was 6 or 7

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:21 AM

#

Yeah, I think so.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:21 AM

#

15 is usually when Peter gets bitten then he turns 16 like 2-3 months later

#

But the Ultimate universe does give the impression that like even though Ben loves Peter like family he didn’t really raise the guy

#

Like Peter was there for like 3 years then went off to college

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:23 AM

#

short prism Why? He's somewhat emotionally distant from Peter, meaning it wouldn't be as big...

You asked why, the reason is because I just have a feeling someone is going to die by the end of this (that or I'm suffering from PTSD from that trope lol)

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:23 AM

#

Someone is, no doubt.

#

Hickman has been killing iconic characters left and right.

#

Or turning them evil.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:24 AM

#

I swear if it's MJ....

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:24 AM

#

Did you read the MJ theory we talked about earlier?

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:24 AM

#

No

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:24 AM

#

analog parrot But the Ultimate universe does give the impression that like even though Ben lov...

Like you’d probably never hear 6160 Peter call Ben or May dad or mom but 616 Peter would definitely call May mom

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:24 AM

#

short prism I feel like MJ being an entrepeneur in that way could lead them to the Maker's C...

Starts here.

#

Read a few messages down.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

short prism So I'm sold.

Up to here.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

analog parrot Like you’d probably never hear 6160 Peter call Ben or May dad or mom but 616 Pet...

Indeed.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

short prism Starts here.

Oh so right before you pinged me lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

Yep, there's also this cover

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

That's a pretty cool theory tho

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:25 AM

#

Which sort of corrobates the theory.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:26 AM

#

molten obsidian That's a pretty cool theory tho

Indeed.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:26 AM

#

I thought that was just a variant cover

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:26 AM

#

It might be, but some of them are relevant.

#

And we know MJ has a business.

#

It also plays into the fact that the North American Union is a technocratic nation, where those with the best stuff ruled.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:26 AM

#

One of my favorite ones

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

short prism It also plays into the fact that the North American Union is a technocratic nati...

It's how Stark and Stane were in control in Ultimate Invasion.

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

molten obsidian One of my favorite ones

I look forward to his life falling apart.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

So it's just a constant Power Vacuum

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

molten obsidian One of my favorite ones

Best version of Spider-Man No More

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

That's what I said lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:27 AM

#

molten obsidian So it's just a constant Power Vacuum

It was until the council swooped in, but once Kingpin is taken out, there will be a power vacuum as you say.

#

So then they'll need a new regional boss.

#

To work under Captain Britain.

#

If MJ is Entrepeneur of the year, then that could lead them to be a cannidate.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:28 AM

#

What does Kingpin own?

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:28 AM

#

Remember Captain Britain's speech in USM#2?

#

It basically explained it.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:29 AM

#

I'd have to go back and reread it

#

My mind is basically consumed of Peter's life atm lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:29 AM

#

Considering the Ultimates are involved in his origin, soon all that conspiracy/government stuff will be his life.

#

Especially if he catches their attention by taking down fisk.

analog parrot Feb 23, 2024, 8:30 AM

#

molten obsidian What does Kingpin own?

probably some new york property but he's an underling for Captain Britain

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:30 AM

#

I think it's more than the NYC region.

#

Since they haven't said New York once to my knowledge.

#

Probably a bigger portion.

#

Though maybe it's just the obvious and it is just that region.

#

Either way, basically, if Peter keeps up what he's doing things are going to escalate.

#

Captian Britain is a big fish and already knows Spider-Man exists.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:32 AM

#

It's just that Parker Luck lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:32 AM

#

Nah, he took that Spider without considering this would happen.

#

It's his responsibility.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:33 AM

#

And he'll take it, because that's what Spider-Man does

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:33 AM

#

This going to be rough.

#

In a good way.

#

But still rough.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:33 AM

#

Oh absolutely lol

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:33 AM

#

Either way, due to that theory I mentioned, and the thing about Peter's age in relation to when he was adopted, the prevailing theory is JJJ.

#

With Ben being the one who hates Spider-Man.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:34 AM

#

I didn't even think about that

#

I was being optomistic and was thinking they'd be a newspaper to help support Peter

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:34 AM

#

The fact that JJJ was so nice to give him fatherly advice and a tie solidified it in my mind that he was going to die.

#

It's always the nicest ones.

#

And in this universe Ben seems kind of cold.

#

When it comes to Peter, anyway.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:35 AM

#

short prism It's always the nicest ones.

Crazy you're giving that to JJJ lol (yes I know he is actually very kind-hearted)

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:35 AM

#

It seems like every Ultimate Universe just makes him nicer.

#

It's weird.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:37 AM

#

I'm just trying to stay as optomistic as I can for Spider-Man lol

#

I need this series to be good and it is 1000% so far

#

Also looking forward to Spectacular Spider-Men

short prism Feb 23, 2024, 8:38 AM

#

I don't doubt it will be well written, but I feel like it's going to be sad.

#

As in USM.

#

I'm not sure about 616 Spectacular.

#

616 Peter and Miles seem to be weird characterization wise to me.

#

Not sure how much a good writer could get away with doing due to Marvel worrying about the brand.

#

Anyhow, thanks for your perspective Pun, I appreciate it immensely.

#

Same goes to you, Xeno, if you're around. I've got to get some rest now, but I hope that you both of you take care, prosper, and remember to strive for more rather than settle for less.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 8:49 AM

#

short prism Anyhow, thanks for your perspective Pun, I appreciate it immensely.

No problem, this has been fun

slender bane Feb 23, 2024, 9:19 AM

#

.

molten obsidian Feb 23, 2024, 9:21 AM

#

.

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:08 AM

#

You know, it'd be nice if there was a book in 6160 that focused on a relatively average citizen with minimal powers that aren't really particularly powerful, just travelling around the world, interacting with normal humans, solving down to Earth problems for the people they encounter, and giving us an idea of how life in this world is for normal people from region to region.

#

Maybe Ultimate X-men will involve field trips.

#

Who knows.

#

I'd just like that kind of book at some point.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:09 AM

#

that’s a good point actually, do you think because all the hero’s havent been created in this universe, that’ll get us some new original characters as a result?

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:10 AM

#

I hope so, as weird as it is to say, I feel like this version of Spider-Man is kind of lacking that down to earthness due to the progression in real time limiting the characters Hickman has time to focus on.

#

And even if he wasn't, he'd still probably be limited to the NAU.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:12 AM

#

well i think that down to earthness will become more prominent once we kinda get the ball rolling more, its just the way of him getting his powers had a big influence on how the story would start fs.

#

then again something big is supposed to happen in 6 months so idk

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:12 AM

#

No I mean, if your story is moving month by month it'll be hard to make time for anyone else since you need to kind of display what's happened to the main cast in that time.

#

And even beyond that him being in the NAU limits the scope of perspectives we receive.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:13 AM

#

oh oh i see what you mean

#

that’s true it does shorten the timeline quite a bit

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:14 AM

#

Yep, people complain about Bendis USM being slow, but it allowed for a lot of stuff that people liked.

#

I guess this is the other extreme.

#

I like what Hickman's doing, but it feels weirdly limiting.

#

I was hoping Ultimates would have the kind of normal person's perspective and problems to help us understand what it's like to live in this universe and what societal issues there are, but Tony's a fugitive.

#

So I'm not sure what to expect anymore.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:19 AM

#

This might be a rough comparison but I think Ultimates is gonna be a cool “Doctor Who” style show… maybe they hop around time, fixing/replacing all these heros, and then idk it somehow builds to the city opening up and stuff

#

but what you said is making me wonder how long this universe would last then? would it just be a very short lived thing

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:20 AM

#

I'm not sure, Hickman's Krakoa plans seem to have a multi-act structure before he left.

#

So did Hickman's Secret Wars saga.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:20 AM

#

true

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:20 AM

#

Which leads me to believe that, if he can, he'll keep this going for a while.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:20 AM

#

how’s krakoa, i wanna hop into that but idk if its any good

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:21 AM

#

It's gotten pretty divise from what I heard.

#

A lot of people feel like it fell off hard.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:21 AM

#

short prism Which leads me to believe that, if he can, he'll keep this going for a while.

yeah my thinking is this is just an “arc” and once its over we’ll continue through the universe telling its own stories

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:21 AM

#

Yep.

#

Or maybe they'll question if the Maker had a point.

#

Since Ultimate Invasion #2 makes it clear that the NAU at least has a lot of miracle technology from Howard and Stane.

#

And a lot of societal problems seem to not exist to the severity they might in the standard US.

#

Or 616 US for that matter.

#

It kind of reminds me of that arc in 1610 where the Maker took over the world and did a bunch of good stuff like eliminating world hunger, copyright, corruption, and other stuff.

#

So it might be an issue that leads to a divide.

#

You kind of have to ask which is better.

#

Constant world-ending/risking events, or this.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:26 AM

#

I can see that, especially since the public sees the new york incident as Tony’s fault

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:26 AM

#

You know, this kind of makes me realize how much we really need that kind of book I described earlier in my opinion.

#

We don't even know what the laws are of the NAU.

#

Praying that Hickman is cooking another book to explain all of this.

#

Or that there's an issue where it's the kids going to History class.

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:39 AM

#

steep mulch I can see that, especially since the public sees the new york incident as Tony’s...

Now that you have me thinking about Tony...wouldn't eliminating the Maker's council leave a power vacuum and lead to war?

#

The Maker, at least for now, seems to have the world's best interests in mind.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:39 AM

#

hm

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

But someone who genuinely only cares about ruling and power could come in.

#

Making things worse.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

its like gang war but wayyyy bigger

#

lol world war ig

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

World War is quite apt.

#

It's just that Dr. FantastiDoom seems too smart not to know this.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:41 AM

#

FantastiDoom i love that

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:42 AM

#

According to UU#1, he knows a LOT of what the Maker knows.

#

And given they're both Reeds, he probably understands why the Maker did it as well.

#

So he has to see the result of Tony's plan coming.

#

Which makes me wonder if the Doom mask is also indicative of the kind of role he eventually will play.

#

I'm kind of concerned that he knows where this is going and is going to seize power starting with Latveria.

#

The lack of super geniuses aside from the one that was tortured for decades and might have a few screws loose concerns me.

#

Especially when Doom is in the mentor role for Tony.

#

With him also knowing more than the rest, giving him more power and control.

#

I want to believe that he's one of the good Reeds, but I'm worried.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 12:46 AM

#

Idk another evil reed seems a bit repetitive already, especially with maker being such a big focus

#

But i can still see that playing out, would be interesting

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:47 AM

#

I think they can still be fairly diferent characters despite being variants.

#

Look at 616 Cap vs 1610, or 6160 Hulk vs 1610 Hulk.

analog parrot Feb 24, 2024, 12:48 AM

#

What are we talking about?

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:48 AM

#

Uh, you missed a lot.

analog parrot Feb 24, 2024, 12:48 AM

#

lol

#

Tldr?

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:50 AM

#

Hard to give one.

#

But in terms of the subjects, we talked about the citizens perspective in the Maker's world, the laws of the NAU and us not knowing them.

#

Also how Tony taking out the Maker might result in a power vacuum and subsequent world war.

#

And how Reed of 6160 might take his place.

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 12:51 AM

#

short prism You know, it'd be nice if there was a book in 6160 that focused on a relatively ...

It starts about here.

#

Oh yeah, we also talked about how long this universe will last.

analog parrot Feb 24, 2024, 1:35 AM

#

Old one lasted like 15 years

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 2:04 AM

#

We weren't really comparing it to the old one, mostly talking about Hickman's track record.

#

The old Ultimate Universe seemed to be a modern retelling of classic stories/ideas...this feel too different for me to try and compare them.

#

The new one is more or less the Ultimate Universe In Name Only, at least in my opinion.

#

I like it for that, but it also means our expectations should probably be different.

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 2:08 AM

#

steep mulch but what you said is making me wonder how long this universe would last then? wo...

If you'd like to read about that part of the conversation, you can find it here.

#

I make my expectations on how long it will last somewhat clear there.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 3:36 AM

#

short prism Look at 616 Cap vs 1610, or 6160 Hulk vs 1610 Hulk.

sorry my work got the best of me lol

#

yea ur right, FantastiDoom is honestly the most intriguing character to me rn i cant wait to see where they take him

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 3:56 AM

#

Same, FantastiDoom is looking to be a major player.

#

Also, no worries regarding your work, I'd say I'm a pretty patient person, and have no issue with waiting, as I'm grateful for you gracing me with your presence at all.

#

I hope it went well.

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 4:23 AM

#

It did thank you!!

steep mulch Feb 24, 2024, 4:23 AM

#

short prism Same, FantastiDoom is looking to be a major player.

I’m so excited, i’ll be on top of Ultimates because of him

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 4:59 AM

#

Likewise, also looking forward to the master and apprentice relationship between him and Iron Lad.

analog parrot Feb 24, 2024, 5:05 AM

#

I’m actually going to pull Ultimates

#

Like UBP is interesting but something I’m willing to read in a different way

#

Where I kinda want to get and read Ultimates day 1

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:12 AM

#

Understandable, Ultimates seems like it's going to be the main plot of the universe.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:15 AM

#

I’d imagine USM is going to be the main plot of the universe
•it’s the first ongoing series
•Hickman continuing as its writer
•Peter was the first hero we see maker depower

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:16 AM

#

If it was taking place outside of the NAU I'd have an easier time understanding that, but for now I doubt it.

#

If it ends up taking place outside of that singular location down the line, I could see it happening.

#

But as of this time I don't really see it.

#

I get that it's the most popular book though, and for a lot of people it's going to be the most important thing for them.

#

For me though, I care more about what's going on in the grander landscape.

#

Since I don't doubt the things happening in Ultimates will be the things that affect the status quo of the universe the most, especially given how it's looking like it will be a globe spanning sort of thing.

#

Whereas X-Men, Spider-Man, and Black Panther are limited.

#

To Hi no Kuni, the North American Union, and Wakanda/Africa respectively.

#

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that Hickman wasn't originally going to write USM, so it might not have been intended to be the focus. Originally, according to Zdarsky on a podcast, it was going to be Chip Zdarsky.

#

Unlike 616 not everything seems to be based around New York.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:22 AM

#

Huh that’s odd, if that’s true then what would Hickman have been writing?

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:22 AM

#

Ultimates I'm guessing.

#

We don't have confirmation on that part to my knowledge, but it makes the most sense since Ultimates is a direct follow up to Invasion and Universe.

#

Which he wrote.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:24 AM

#

Hickman plots out his stories in their entirety before writing, so if that was the case I doubt Camp would’ve taken the book from him

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:25 AM

#

Other writers have followed Hickman's plans before.

#

So it wouldn't surprise me if Camp was working within them.

#

Especially since Hickman seems to be the architect of the universe.

#

Or he could have just changed his plans.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:26 AM

#

Wait was Zdarsky supposed to write ultimate spider-man before or after Cates’s car accident?

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:28 AM

#

I don't remember, I think there were details in the podcast that made the answer to your question clear, but I don't remember that particular part.

#

I could send you the link if you'd like.

#

All I recall aside from it being him, was that he said something along the lines of "I turned it down and said Hickman should write it".

#

I believe the reasoning he gave for it on the podcast firmly places it somewhere along the development timeline of this universe in terms of before or after cates.

#

Nevermind, found a quote from it.

#

Here you go...

“Couple reasons why I didn’t take it. One, I was doing Batman. But two, because the whole idea that was pitched–I got to read all the Ultimate Universe stuff that Hickman had already written and he had the plan for other books and stuff–I just read it and was like, oh this is so Hickman. Hickman should be writing this.”

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:31 AM

#

Hmm strange

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:31 AM

#

Why?

#

Zdarsky seems like a no brainer first choice.

#

Also, the so Hickman part was part of why I was telling you I think it's going to go places not everyone will like later.

#

https://aiptcomics.com/2024/02/09/chip-zdarsky-ultimate-spider-man-2024/ Here's a full thing if you want more info.

AIPT

Chip Zdarsky was the first choice to write ‘Ultimate Spider-Man’ 20...

Chip Zdarsky revealed he turned down the 'Ultimate Spider-Man' writing gig.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:38 AM

#

Zdarsky is a good choice for Spider-Man, but it’s odd to me that Hickman wasn’t intended to be the writer for any of the current titles

Or if he was that he was replaced with Camp who, while I’ve heard to be good, doesn’t have much marvel experience under his belt

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:38 AM

#

Eh, everyone has to get started somewhere.

#

Anyhow, this is part of why I'm under the impression Ultimates is going to be a big deal, and also part of why I'm so worried about giving it to Camp when it might be that important.

#

It seems like he had outlines for Spider-Man without him intending to write it himself, which gives me the impression that the outline for Ultimates is going to be main plot heavy since it seems like the book he was most likely working on before the shift.

#

Also since it seems to be the only book not limited to one territory.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:42 AM

#

Or maybe Hickman has another book we just don’t know about yet, perhaps something taking the spot of the F4

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:43 AM

#

I think the Ultimates might be the Fantastic Four analog.

#

Doom and Tony's camraderie really reminded me of FF.

#

Similar things can be said about Thor.

#

Like, I could see Ultimate Universe #1 being an FF thing.

#

Thor trying to break Cap out of the ice with his hammer is very Ben Grimm like, Reed joking to Tony about his ship, etc.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:45 AM

#

I honestly don’t see it at all

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:46 AM

#

I'd recommend givng UU#1 a reread, then. This might be one of those blink and you'll miss it things like that Maker panel I sent from UI#1.

#

Also, in Hickman's prior work members of the Fantastic Four were restoring the multiverse, here they're restoring the world.

#

There are other similarities, but that's a notable one.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:49 AM

#

Thor trying to smash a problem isn’t exactly new for the character, and the avengers have always been work friends able to good around

The F4 is a family, that can and have fight amongst themselves, but held together with love. They are also explorers who determine what’s real and impossible before exploring the impossible

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:50 AM

#

The FF have done more than explore before, especially under Hickman.

#

But I won't get into the nitty gritty.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:50 AM

#

I’m well aware I’ve read a lot of F4

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:50 AM

#

I figured.

#

You seem like one with good taste.

#

My original point was that most things point to another book being the focus of this universe, not Spider-Man.

#

You may be on to something with there being a new version of the FF down the line.

#

And that maybe being the focus.

#

But for now, we at least know that the other three books outside of Ultimates are limited in location or scope.

#

So those three being the main plot are unlikely.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 5:53 AM

#

What I’m imaging is that Uncle Ben will be investigating the Maker’s council in USM

The ultimates will be restoring the worlds heroes in their book

And the X-Men will be uniting heroes unaffected by the maker

All leading up to an event

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 5:53 AM

#

Yeah, I don't doubt that they'll all play some sort of role in the grander picture.

#

I'm honestly kind of bummed that USM is Spider-Man scale.

#

Though Zdarsky did say this is so Hickman.

#

So maybe that won't last.

#

I honestly want whatever Hickman's working on to not be limited to one area.

#

The main issue is that I can't see this version of Spider-Man not getting wrecked by the Council.

#

Especially when Captain Britain was able to beat most of the Ultimates so thoroughly.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:04 AM

#

Well tbf Peter hasn’t done anything yet and didn’t get his powers until the last page of issue 1

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 6:05 AM

#

I think 1610 Peter was more competent in a month.

#

Also, 6160 Peter seems to lack the ferocity and fighting skills needed to best Captain Britain.

#

So unless the Ultimates train him, I don't see it.

#

Especially since he can't even beat Shocker.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:10 AM

#

He didn’t beat shocker because shocker used his optimism against him

It’s no slight on Peter’s ability to fight super criminals because he just really hasn’t

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 6:11 AM

#

You're being weirdly generous to a man who took powers and the enemies that come with being a superhero despite the potential to put his children in danger.

#

But fair enough.

#

It does seem to be more a result of Peter's personality than their skills.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:14 AM

#

We are talking about a guy who can liquefy a person with a flick of his finger

I’d be hard pressed to diminish his value because he’s yet to be angry and attack someone

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 6:15 AM

#

Understandable.

#

Now that I think about it, it's weird that Spider-Man is stronger than a lot of versions of Cap despite being street level.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:18 AM

#

Cap’s 616 version is the “peak of human perfection” which Marvel and DC define as the highest level a person can get without being superhuman

Peter is a superhuman with strength greater than 100+ men

Peter is only street tier because he cares about people on the street level

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 6:19 AM

#

I wish he didn't have children so he could spend more time with street people.

#

Now I kind of get what editorial meant by children being restrictive.

#

I might be on their side in that respect after this is said and done regarding at least the kids thing.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:20 AM

#

He can still spend plenty of time with citizens, the Parkers have a baby sitter

short prism Feb 24, 2024, 6:20 AM

#

Oh yeah.

#

But there's also family events.

#

It's such a hard thing for me, since I know Parker is about responsibilities and this is just more responsibilities.

#

But at the same time I don't want him to have some of them.

#

So very conflicted.

#

At least if Hickman kills one it'll be a bit easier for me in that respect.

#

Anyhow, I'm going to go grab something to eat, thanks for your perspective, and best of luck with your endeavors, Martian Guy.

subtle summit Feb 24, 2024, 6:24 AM

#

Have a good one

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 2:23 AM

#

You know, I feel stupid for not realizing this earlier, but The Maker's whole thing with 616 Reed, himself, and 6160 Reed is probably just nature vs nurture.

#

But what I'm really wondering is why the Maker's doing it at all with Reeds in particular, it feels like there's something more to his obsession than just pettiness.

#

Why was he (seemingly) trying to prove that 616 Reed wouldn't have ended up any better than him if he had lost it all?

#

Maybe it's that after feeling inferior and losing to 616 Reed in so many respects, he just wants to feel superior to him by messing with a variant.

#

Or maybe the reason he let Reed live is soley because 616 Reed saying he would kill the Maker if he had the chance.

#

I'm genuinely confused as to why the Maker even cares that much about what 616 Reed says.

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 3:09 AM

#

I can't think of any reason beyond the Maker just being...a petty bastard.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 3:24 AM

#

i mean...

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:01 AM

#

Can a man brilliant enough to build a bridge to another world, mold that world into a relatively peaceful, warless existence, and possibly invent/properly utilize time travel really be that petty?

#

I guess if they're enjoying it, to each their own.

#

I just thought at some point they'd realize or think it to be beneath them.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:04 AM

#

short prism Can a man brilliant enough to build a bridge to another world, mold that world i...

yes

#

pettiest man alive Eobard Thawne did all of that

subtle summit Feb 25, 2024, 4:05 AM

#

Dr Doom has done the same and has been even more petty for 60 years

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:06 AM

#

You're not wrong, both of you.

#

At this point, I have to wonder what the difference between the Maker and Dr Doom is.

#

Beyond a biological sense.

#

He's even in Latveria.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:07 AM

#

i don't know much about him but I kinda want to say that's the point

#

like 1610 Reed and Doom are so close to each other that one bad day made Reed exactly like him

#

but again I didn't really read much from the Maker other than Ultimate Invasion so spideyshrug

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:10 AM

#

analog parrot like 1610 Reed and Doom are so close to each other that one bad day made Reed ex...

You're probably right, actually.

#

I just have to wonder where Hickman is going with this.

#

He's the man with a plan.

#

Usually with character payoffs.

#

Where can you take the Maker as a character from here.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:12 AM

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isn't he dead?

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:12 AM

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I believe the Maker is a fair bit more durable than 616 Reed.

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It's weird.

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It's how he's able to split himself up into multiple makers and operate at once.

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And how he was able to regenerate his head in Ultimate Invasion.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:13 AM

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robots?

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:13 AM

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No, just him, it's body horror esque.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:13 AM

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also just the nature of how his powers work. I believe he actually just makes new cells or something when he stretches

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:13 AM

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the-maker-flirts-with-kang-ultimate-comics-ultimates-v0-g9qql4dhbzja1.png

subtle summit Feb 25, 2024, 4:14 AM

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Maker can stretch but he can’t detach parts of himself

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:14 AM

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Yep.

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I'm not sure reed can pull of The Maker's feats.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:15 AM

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short prism

it doesn't look like they are detached here

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they are all somewhat connected

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:15 AM

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Indeed.

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Oh, I used the word split.

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My apologies, poor choice of words.

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What I meant was that he can stretch himself in ways you wouldn't normally see from 616 Reed, and 1610 Reed is actually considered nigh immortal.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:17 AM

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yeah 616 and 1610 their powers work differently

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that i do know

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:17 AM

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So 1610 Reed can survive under very bad conditions.

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And live for thousands of years, potentially.

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Which is why I wouldn't say he's dead.

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He'll probably come out of the city.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:17 AM

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yeahhh

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:18 AM

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Kang probably is though.

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I'm just wondering what Hickman is planning.

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:19 AM

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we will find out

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at somepoint

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:19 AM

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Two years.

subtle summit Feb 25, 2024, 4:19 AM

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short prism And live for thousands of years, potentially.

Already has done so multiple times

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:19 AM

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Oh yeah, the dome thing, right?

subtle summit Feb 25, 2024, 4:20 AM

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Yep from the first ultimate universe

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 4:20 AM

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I have to wonder how old 1610 Reed is considered.

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He seems physically younger than 616 Reed, but he's been in the dome and things like it.

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I guess it's not too important, for now.

sullen bone Feb 25, 2024, 4:54 AM

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short prism So 1610 Reed can survive under very bad conditions.

1610 reed is the maker tho

analog parrot Feb 25, 2024, 4:55 AM

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yeah

short prism Feb 25, 2024, 8:54 PM

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sullen bone 1610 reed is the maker tho

I'm aware, is there a problem with referring to them by their name rather than title?

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:32 PM

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short prism Two years.

But hasnt it been 15 years since then as of USM #1?

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So he should have been out long ago like 13 yrs ago, right?

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Wonder if we'll see him in the ultimates book

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:33 PM

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since when? Maker's "death"

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bc it's been like 2 months since the big incident at the end of Ultimate Universe #1

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:34 PM

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analog parrot since when? Maker's "death"

Isn't he only supposed to be trapped in the City, and not "dead"?

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:35 PM

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analog parrot bc it's been like 2 months since the big incident at the end of Ultimate Univers...

So it's been 2 months and 15 years as of USM?

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:35 PM

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slender bane So it's been 2 months and 15 years as of USM?

15 years since when?

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bc it's been 20 years since Peter didn't get his powers

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:36 PM

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USM is set 15 years later from the events of the 4 issue mini series

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Right

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20 years, not 15

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:36 PM

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it shouldn't be

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:36 PM

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How so

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:37 PM

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Ultimate Invasion happens then right after Ultimate Universe happens then 2 months later we are onto USM #2

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either way we can assume from the map that Ultimate Invasion happens in 2023

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and as of USM #2 it is Feb 2024

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:38 PM

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Interesting

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I thought we were at 2023 + 20 years

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:38 PM

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Maker though has been manipulating 6160 since 1963

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:39 PM

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slender bane I thought we were at 2023 + 20 years

that can't be the case bc it's Feb 2024 in USM #2 so that would mean that Maker took the Spider in 2004

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and the Invasion didn't happen until 2023

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this is when Ultimate Universe happens it's 2023

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and that happens right after the Invasion therefore the Invasion is 2023

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the USM #1 we know is January so we can assume that's in 2024

slender bane Feb 26, 2024, 7:41 PM

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So, it's been 2 months since May parker, osborns and every one else died? I thought they were holding a 15 yr anniversary for the departed in USM #1

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Okay that puts a new perspective on this for me

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 7:43 PM

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to me i thought it was just the big memorial service

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plus Ben talks about how his wife just died

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if anything the most it could be is like a memorial put up like a month or so later

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 8:58 PM

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slender bane So, it's been 2 months since May parker, osborns and every one else died? I thou...

Weird, I was under the impression The Maker taking the Spider from Peter in UI was just him using time travel.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 8:59 PM

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that's what I thought too

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 8:59 PM

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There are a number of things that wouldn't make sense if it wasn't to me.

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Like Tony's age relative to Peter.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 8:59 PM

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also Ben talks about his wife being dead like it's a new thing

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:00 PM

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It had to be time travel since the spider was taken away in 2004, during that year 1610 Reed wasn’t the Maker yet

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:00 PM

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What does 1610 have to do with this?

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:00 PM

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subtle summit It had to be time travel since the spider was taken away in 2004, during that ye...

unless time is just different

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:00 PM

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In Ultimate Invasion this universe is listed as a 616 Strand.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:00 PM

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Time is the same across the multiverse, usually

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:01 PM

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short prism What does 1610 have to do with this?

Not the universe itself, but back then Maker was in the F4

So UI maker had to use time travel to appear in 6160’s past

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:03 PM

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Isn't it possible certain events in the timeline of Earth 6160 happened later or earlier than they did in other timelines?

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I'm not arguing that they didn't time travel, just wondering.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:03 PM

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Yes but it’s explicitly stated the spider bite was 20 years ago

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:04 PM

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True, I guess if the illuminati arrives and the universe is as it is now that would confirm what you're saying even further.

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By Illuminati, I mean the 616 version.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:05 PM

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i still think the timeline goes Maker used time travel to come back to 1963 takes over and splits up the world to everyone, then Peter was born 1988-1989, Ben and Jonah start doing reporting in 1994, then the Invasion happens in 2023 with the end of Ultimate Universe happening in like November or December, then January 2024 Peter and family attend the opening of the memorial of the dead during the event and Peter gets his powers, then February 2024 the events of USM #2 happen and possibly also UBP #1

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:06 PM

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You know, it's kind of weird to talk about a Marvel Universe seemingly without a sliding time scale.

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Also, you seem to be on point, Xeno.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:07 PM

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thank you

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i say 1963 bc of the map key saying 1963-2023

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:08 PM

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I still find 616 Reed seemingly having those files on everyone's origins kind of weird.

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But yeah, 1963 seems to be the year of divergence.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:09 PM

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Peter is 35 so birth year of 1988-89 is assumed, Ben and Jonah talk about reporting for 30 years so 1994, Peter talks about 20 years missing so 2004 for the not so Spider bite, then again the key for both maps pre and post Ultimate Universe say 1963-2023 so it assume both happen in 2023 and USM #1 says January so it's assumed a new year so 2024

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:09 PM

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If Maker carved up the world in 1963 why was he dressed incognito when he stole the spider?

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:10 PM

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No need to attract unnecessary attention, I'm guessing.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:10 PM

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subtle summit If Maker carved up the world in 1963 why was he dressed incognito when he stole ...

idk but clearly something happened to make the world look like the map in 1963

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:10 PM

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He could have just set his plans into motion then and progressed up to now.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:10 PM

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maybe he did it in secret or maybe he was incognito bc he's so well known

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:12 PM

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Also why 1963? I can’t think of any particular reason for that year

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:12 PM

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60 years from 2023

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or yk the 60s was technically the age of heroes

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in our universe

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:13 PM

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Yeah, I think that's when early heroes like Jim Hammond started showing up.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:14 PM

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i mean for us 60s was Spidey, F4, X-Men, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and so many others

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i just believe 60 years was a nice number to use

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:15 PM

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Strange, considering the sliding time scale.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:16 PM

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But the F4 first appeared in 1961 and I think hulk was 1962

Captain America and the WW2 heroes like the human torch and Namor showed up in the 30s-40s

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:16 PM

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Doesn't marvel retcon when heroes first appeared all the time to keep them young, though?

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:17 PM

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Yeah which makes it even weirder, so for any hero post WW2 Maker could’ve just appeared at the year 2000 to mess with them

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So he picked a time period 30 years too late to affect some heroes and 30 years too early to do much

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:18 PM

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1963 is a nice post WW2 time

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:18 PM

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Maybe he wanted some time to scope things out and setup shop.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:19 PM

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i also just think 60 years is a nice number to use

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:19 PM

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But why not go to 1923 then and get all the heroes

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:19 PM

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bc clearly Hickman wanted a post WW2 time

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and 1953 was a nothing time

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1963 was when Kennedy was shot

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:20 PM

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As of now it just seems like Maker dropped the ball and messed up on cap

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:21 PM

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I mean, he went there, it just seems like someone got there first.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:21 PM

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what year did Captain America come back to comics?

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:21 PM

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As of the sliding time scale, or originally?

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:21 PM

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just originally

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:22 PM

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I want to say it was the 60s like everyone else, but I'm not 100% sure.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:23 PM

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i wanna say 1963

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:23 PM

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Sounds about right.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:23 PM

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but it looks like it was Jan 1964

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idk there's just a lot of stuff that happened in 1963 for there to be a reason for Maker to go there

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in universe and out

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:24 PM

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I think Cap was the Maker's last stop, which would explain how he missed him.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:25 PM

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But why wouldn’t he go to before WW2, watch cap full time, capture the frozen cap the minute he’s frozen, and then rebuild from the war torn Europe

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:25 PM

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maybe he went to 1963 bc tensions were high and maybe he could easily reshape the world?

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:25 PM

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subtle summit But why wouldn’t he go to before WW2, watch cap full time, capture the frozen ca...

Maybe he just didn't know all the details on 616 Cap.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:26 PM

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subtle summit But why wouldn’t he go to before WW2, watch cap full time, capture the frozen ca...

maybe this universe's F4 was from the 60s and he wanted to do that first and then his time machine broke or something

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:26 PM

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The only thing I can think of is Mutants

Magneto didn’t know about his powers until his daughters death post WW2

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:26 PM

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616 Magneto?

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:26 PM

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i mean yeah

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:26 PM

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Yeah we don’t know anything about 6160 magneto

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:27 PM

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Magneto is one of the characters who is still from the 30-40s evenwith the sliding timescale

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he kinda has to be

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:27 PM

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One of the differences in 6160 that separates it from 616 might be the origin of mutants.

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It would explain why they're just there.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:27 PM

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That’s possible but also the last ultimate universe did exactly that

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:28 PM

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maybe Maker wanted to manipulated the world during a cold war instead of a world war

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:28 PM

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I wonder how X-Men fans would feel about yet another version of the origin of mutants.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:29 PM

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but even then the 60s were a highly secured time

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just bc of communism

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:29 PM

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The Maker is basically a god in my eyes in terms of his technology.

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So I doubt he'd have too hard a time.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:29 PM

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true

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it just makes little sense to start manipulating from there unless someone is there in the 60s

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:30 PM

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He could have just been going off of Reed's files.

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Not himself, I mean 616 Reed.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:30 PM

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which in reality wouldn't show much in the 60s

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:31 PM

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Better safe than sorry.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:32 PM

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like in 616 bc of how things scoot most heroes would come around in like the early 2000s with the only people not being like Nick Fury, all the Cap and Bucky knock offs, howling commandos, og Human Torch, Namor, Wolverine, and Magneto

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oh and the Asgardians

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:33 PM

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The Maker probably has his reasons, though what I'm more concerned about is why 6160 Reed gave Tony a time machine.

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If the Maker's shenanigans go to show anything, it's that messing with time travel, even for good reasons, is begging for a mess to happen.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:34 PM

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who knows I feel like a lot more stuff will make sense with the FCBD and in Ultimates

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:35 PM

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Maybe, I just think they should destroy it.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:35 PM

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I imagine it’s because Howard wants Tony to undo Maker’s changes to the time stream

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:36 PM

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If that were the case I doubt he'd be giving heroes their stuff in the modern day.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:36 PM

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or yk maybe Hickman just confirmed that 616 does the thing where it's only like 1975 but they just have really advanced tech bc of a bunch of smart people like Reed

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:36 PM

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I think the Cap thing was a one time occasion.

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I thought Reed specifically had a chip on his shoulder about giving the world technology it wasn't ready for.

subtle summit Feb 26, 2024, 9:37 PM

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maybe the Time Machine is to protect Tony from being attacked via Maker’s time travel?

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:37 PM

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I could be wrong, but I recall something like that.

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:37 PM

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idk i've just heard this theory before

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:37 PM

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subtle summit maybe the Time Machine is to protect Tony from being attacked via Maker’s time t...

Also true.

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I just think that having a time machine is never a good idea.

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And if one of them becomes Kang as is suspected...

analog parrot Feb 26, 2024, 9:38 PM

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this is all so interesting

short prism Feb 26, 2024, 9:39 PM

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Indeed, I have to wonder what Cap's stance on having a time machine on standby will be.

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Or if they'll subvert expectations and make him like 1610 Cap.

fleet ice Feb 27, 2024, 8:13 PM

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Wait, what happened to Gwen Stacey in the new ultimate universe?

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She still alive?

subtle summit Feb 27, 2024, 8:14 PM

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Unknown

analog parrot Feb 27, 2024, 8:39 PM

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Unknown

silk adder Mar 2, 2024, 11:15 PM

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Are kang and the Maker dead now

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And howard

analog parrot Mar 2, 2024, 11:55 PM

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Howard yes, Kang no, Maker maybe

subtle summit Mar 3, 2024, 4:10 AM

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I wouldn’t count Howard as dead until I see the body because 6160 Reed was able to survive in the city without issue

steep mulch Mar 3, 2024, 6:13 AM

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Am I crazy is that Spidey shadow on the right

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Oh and Black Panther too????

#Ultimate universe Spoilers