Which was your favourite episode? (1-3)

[paper terrace]

chesburger

[tawny shale]

I think Ep 2 is a What If that ppl actually wondered about

I love how they bring in the older heroes as well

[wary wasp]

I like 2nd and 3rd both but 2nd was a little more better for me

[tawny shale]

Like Mar-Vell, T'Chaka, Hank Pym, Goliath

[tawny shale]

3rd one was just a random xmas special

So i wasnt much of a fan of it

[wary wasp]

Keyword “xmas special”
It was meant to be a fun, goofy episode so I enjoyed it

[tawny shale]

Fair enough

I just didnt rlly enjoy it

[wary wasp]

I see

[indigo geyser]

Booo! Episode 2 is winning

That episode was shit

[indigo geyser]

I found it boring TBH

Still better than Ep2

[tawny shale]

Same

[tawny shale]

[rough epoch]

I liked B because it had a better team up than the first Avengers movie

No black widow or hawkeye to drag it down

[tawny shale]

I liked how they had old heroes

[tawny shale]

Real

[indigo geyser]

No, no it didn't lmao

[rough epoch]

Exactly

[indigo geyser]

Mar-Vell, T'Chaka and Goliath

[rough epoch]

The o6 weren't a great team imo

[loud wind]

I guess people liked that “this isnt you” bit

[indigo geyser]

They were

[rough epoch]

Yeah they were all better than those 2

[tawny shale]

They wre just the original 6 in the mcu

[indigo geyser]

I'd take Black Widow or Hawkeye over those three any day

[rough epoch]

The comics o6 was better anyways (imo)

[tawny shale]

Before the mcu, the original 6 always had Antman and Wasp instead of hawkeye and antman

[rough epoch]

I'd take almost anyone over black widow and hawkeye

[tawny shale]

Agreed

[rough epoch]

Missed opportunity in the m cu

[tawny shale]

They were cool

[rough epoch]

Watching haekeye and black widow is so boring

[tawny shale]

Well, not Mar-Vell

[rough epoch]

Mar-vell is meh but not awful

I just liked Goliath and ant Man being on the team

[indigo geyser]

Ant-Man and The Wasp were originally meant to be part of the MCU OG6 but their film got cancelled cuz the director didn't want to work in a shared universe

[indigo geyser]

L take

Widow and Hawkeye are great

[rough epoch]

I wish "L" would burn in Hell

[rough epoch]

Not to me

They're the 2 worst mcu Avengers

[tawny shale]

Curious, why do u like them so much?

[bleak cedar]

Nebula is hot. Simple as that. But I like the chance at a second life for her

[rough epoch]

Yeah Clint is so bland

I liked nebula teaming up with korg and Howard the duck

[tawny shale]

I found them boring as they didnt have much character or anything

[rough epoch]

Odd group but fun

[indigo geyser]

They're amazingly characterzied

[rough epoch]

Ikr.

[tawny shale]

All i knew was they worked for SHIELD

[rough epoch]

They're thr opposite of amazing

She's inconsistent

And he's even less

[tawny shale]

How were they characterised in Avengers 2012 and before?

[rough epoch]

AoU was the worst for Nat

Because of that forced romance with Bruce

[tawny shale]

RIP Betty Ross

[rough epoch]

Ikr

[indigo geyser]

I will agree with that one

[rough epoch]

Clints family is a generic plot device

Muh family is the most generic motivation

It needs something deeper than that

For me at least

[indigo geyser]

I’ll give you Hawkeye for that. He was just a mind controlled slave for most of Avengers 2012 but in fairness they had to balance a bunch of characters and a team up film like this has never been done before

[rough epoch]

Tbh I don't think they did a good job balancing

[tawny shale]

Yeah but regardless of limitations, a bland character is a bland character

[rough epoch]

Exactly

[indigo geyser]

As for Black Widow, I could write a long paragraph but I’ll direct you to this video to explain because I think they do it better than I could
https://youtu.be/2iHzRB3gXZM?si=F0r7dn1YMPgkyPji

[rough epoch]

If it was in Phase 4 people wouldn't be so forgiving

[tawny shale]

Ok

[rough epoch]

I've seen that scene

It always felt superfluous

Most of her characterization is backstory but doesn't really relate to most of her appearances

[tawny shale]

I liked them a bit more with later films as they had some more backstory
But in Avengers and prior i didnt even know they were superheroes as a kid 💀

[indigo geyser]

No, no, no she’s very much characterized in her appearances more than her backstory

[tawny shale]

Since they just wore black

[rough epoch]

I don't think it's consistent though

[indigo geyser]

What part?

[rough epoch]

She suddenly cares about accountability in Civil war?

Then doesn't in endgame

Her whole black ops background means little in Avengers 1

[indigo geyser]

Hmm I wonder why someone would care about civilians dying?

[rough epoch]

She's a secret agent. They're the last people who should care

If anything Steve should care more

[indigo geyser]

WHAAAAA??? You say lmao??

[rough epoch]

But he doesn't because plot or whatever

CW didn't do Steve or Nat any favors imo

[indigo geyser]

No he does care. They just have different ways of going about it

[indigo geyser]

Civil War is potentially Steve and Nat’s best films in the MCU and definitely the best film

[rough epoch]

Didn't seem like it

[rough epoch]

I don't agree

Winter Soldier was for me

Even though civil war had more fun action scenes

Winter Soldier was a better characterzation imo

[indigo geyser]

Steve very much so cares about lessening collateral damage and saving civilian lives. He just doesn’t believe that letting the government make the choices and trusting that whatever they say is the right call is the right decision after seeing what happened to SHIELD in Winter Soldier

[rough epoch]

Stvee was narrow minded

[indigo geyser]

Reverse that for me. Civil War is 100% the better written film but Winter Soldier had great action sequences

[rough epoch]

He falsely equated oversight with fascism

When lack of oversight is what allowed hydra to gain control to begin with

[main knoll]

to be fair though the government guy was a bastard with a bias

[indigo geyser]

And you don’t think that can happen to a government? And plus it’s not necessarily just being big organizations that Steve doesn’t trust. It’s that he trusts himself more to make the right choices than someone else

[tawny shale]

Agreed tbh

Civil war is one of my favourite marvel films

[main knoll]

and those that didn't sign would be put in a cell in the middle of the sea without trial

that's pretty fucked up

[indigo geyser]

Civil War is my favorite. Period.

[tawny shale]

I was skeptical of it when it first came out cos i thought it would be heroes randomly fighting for no reason
But then i watched it and that wasnt the case

[indigo geyser]

No. They were put in cells because they didn’t sign AND went against the law by continuing to fight

When Ross was talking to them and Nat asks him what happens if they don’t sign he says ”Then you retire” which is what Clint does until he’s called back into action by Captain America

[indigo geyser]

Civil War is fucking fantastic in how it builds conflict between characters

[main knoll]

well shit forgive me for thinking that asshole didn't have ulterior motives

I'm not trying to be a dick this kind of restriction of freedoms just hits closer to home

[tawny shale]

Agreed

[tawny shale]

Oh he likely did

[tepid escarp]

Wsp gang :3

[indigo geyser]

Also for the record, I just wanna state that even though Natasha would and does care about civilian lives being lost due to the Avengers in Civil War. It’s very clear that isn’t her main reason of joining Team Iron Man

The Avengers are her family and she wants to keep them together, she joins Iron Man because she sees him as stubborn and arrogant and believed that if either him or Steve were to budge, it would be Steve. Spends the entire film trying to keep her relationships with both of them until we fast forward to the end of the Airport Fight where she confronts Steve after seeing everything he’s done asking him one last time to stop what he’s doing and all Steve could say back to her is ”You know I can’t” and that’s what makes her realize that Steve isn’t the one who’s going to budge on this, hence why she turns on Team Iron Man and stops T’Challa from killing Bucky, then at the hospital scene confronts Tony telling him that only more people will get hurt and if he continues and all Tony could do is lash out at her making fun of her letting Steve go by calling her a double agent. Black Widow is a very family oriented character and Civil War portrays that excellently

[rough epoch]

Tbh I don't think we're going to agree

Which is ok

[indigo geyser]

I’m sorry but I don’t think there was enough time for you to read what I wrote before you sent that

[rough epoch]

I typed it before I saw what you typed

But these kinds of discussions rarely convince anyone in my experience

[indigo geyser]

Fine then

Keep your hatred of Black Widow and Hawkeye. Just saying you’re missing out on a lot of great character work

[rough epoch]

What hatred?

Disliking isn't hatred. Jeez

I just think they're boring and poorly written

[indigo geyser]

Maybe dismissiveness would be the better term for it?

[rough epoch]

No, it's called disliking

I've seen them since the beginning

They never became better imo

[indigo geyser]

Fine then if you don’t even wanna read what I had to say

Continue disliking Black Widow and Hawkeye. Just saying you’re missing out on a lot of great character work

[rough epoch]

I didn't say I wouldn't read it

[indigo geyser]

They’re great characters

[rough epoch]

Not to me

To me they're awful

I did read what you wrote

[indigo geyser]

Better than anyone from Shang-Chi

Just saying

[rough epoch]

No

Shang Chi is better than black widow and Hawkeye

[indigo geyser]

[rough epoch]

He's actually entertaining

To me at least

[indigo geyser]

Maybe from a popcorn standard but imo Black Widow and Hawkeye’s best scenes are the intimate dialogue and subtext from where they just talk

[rough epoch]

Popcorn standard? Really?

[indigo geyser]

Yes

[rough epoch]

This isn't citizen kane here

Don't be dismisive

Clint and Nats dialogue is mostly just "Budapest"

[indigo geyser]

Look who’s being dismissive

[rough epoch]

Basically the only time they were actually interesting ad friends is when she died

[rough epoch]

I'm not

I didn't call what you liked "Popcorn"

See. This is why I said this discussion is pointless

[slender python]

@upbeat cloak It features the Avengers, even if it takes place in the late '80s.

[indigo geyser]

I don’t intend to call him popcorn either. He’s just more when compared to Widow and Hawkeye

At least in my opinion

[rough epoch]

Imo that's incorrect

[indigo geyser]

Then leave if it’s so pointless and if you think I’m just wasting ur time

[rough epoch]

Shang had more interesting human dialogue in his first appearance than those 2 did in the whole iw saga

[tepid escarp]

Wow nice 👍

[rough epoch]

I'm not going anywhere

[indigo geyser]

Natasha is a fantastic character

[rough epoch]

Telling people to leave is rude

[tepid escarp]

Agreeable

[rough epoch]

You should be able to handle differing opinions

Without being rude

[indigo geyser]

Then don’t address me bringing up this debate, I guess? I’m just saying if you don’t wanna enter this conversation I don’t wanna force you to

[rough epoch]

That's not what you said

You're the one being fragile here

If you don't agree just say that

[indigo geyser]

I am and I do know that you think Shang-Chi has better scenes of dialogue than Widow or Hawkeye

[rough epoch]

Ok then was that so hard?

[indigo geyser]

I am saying that

[tepid escarp]

Chill out bro

Everyone has equal opinions

And I agree

[indigo geyser]

No but I thought it was so obvious that I didn’t have to mention it?

[tepid escarp]

…

[rough epoch]

I did but then you seemed you were getting offended

[indigo geyser]

I’m not

[rough epoch]

Ok then

[indigo geyser]

I just believe that Black Widow and Hawkeye are fantastic in dialogue

[rough epoch]

Ok that's finr

[tepid escarp]

It’s like a random stranger debate

[rough epoch]

I think they're the opposite

[indigo geyser]

So many of their greatest scenes are the intimate ones where they just talk to other characters

[tepid escarp]

No one knows who the other is

online debate

That’s it

Also

[rough epoch]

I just felt their dialog is lacking

[indigo geyser]

And plus credit to ScarJo and Renner, whom no offense to Shang-Chi. But I think they’re better actors too

[rough epoch]

I wasn't even sad when she died tbh

[tepid escarp]

Ima leave y’all to be have fun debating :3

[rough epoch]

Idk about renner

They might be better actors yeah

But I don't think they ever elevated their characters

The way RDJ, Hemsworth, Cumberbatch or Isaac did

For example

[indigo geyser]

I definitely think they did

Moreso ScarJo but yeah

[rough epoch]

For me the only time Johansson was actually interesting was in Endgame for a few scenes

When she was sad about everything

Renner seemed too low key

[indigo geyser]

Really? Endgame probably is one of her weakest films imo

Not the weakest tho

[rough epoch]

Idk I didn't find any emotionally engaging performance from hear in earlier movies

She's mostly just quippy

But I can get that from Iron man or ant man

Compared to say Elizabeth Olsen, who did a good job even with weak dialog at times

[indigo geyser]

Compared to Olsen she’s definitely weaker yeah

IMO Olsen is one of the best actresses in the entire MCU

And I’m not being a simp

I think she really is that good

[rough epoch]

Yeah

But even the "weaker" actors like Hemsworth or Rudd or Stan had some stand out moments for me

[indigo geyser]

Weaker?

I don’t think any of them were weak at all lmao

[rough epoch]

That's why I put it in quotations

I think they're all good actors

[indigo geyser]

That’s just painful

[rough epoch]

Not for me hahaha.

[indigo geyser]

Did you vote for Ep2?

[rough epoch]

Yeah that's why haha

[indigo geyser]

[rough epoch]

Even though the ending wasn't the best

I liked the team interactions

What if has given some good interactions imo

[indigo geyser]

I think What If..? sucks at dialogue

Like I have other gripes with What If..? that I take more issue with but the dialogue is what makes it always so painful to watch

[rough epoch]

Idk it's about the same for me

Idk it was less painful than watching the dialogue in Hawkeye

[indigo geyser]

Same as?

[rough epoch]

To me

[rough epoch]

The average muc

[indigo geyser]

That’s pain

[rough epoch]

I think thr bigger issue is the voice acting

[indigo geyser]

Both of those

[indigo geyser]

Oh yeah this

[rough epoch]

Otoh it gave some good team ups

I liked the roster in Zombies

[rough epoch]

I think s2 improved the voice acting a bit

[indigo geyser]

I think it initially was a neat idea having the live action actors reprise their roles in animation but now I think they should’ve actually just casted people who are specifically voice actors

[rough epoch]

Yeah it mightve been a better idea

[indigo geyser]

And after seeing What If..?’s voice acting I’m now afraid of what Gunn’s DCU will look like now that he’s said that he wants his live action actors to reprise their roles in animation and video games

[rough epoch]

They should get some voice acting training first

[indigo geyser]

Especially with Damian cuz child

[rough epoch]

Ironically the mcu hasn't has Chris Pratt as a va

Lol

[indigo geyser]

They haven’t?

[rough epoch]

Not that I recall

Maybe I'm wrong

[indigo geyser]

Now thinking about it that could be true but it feels so weird

Chris Pratt is very known for VA

I don’t know why u won’t use him?

[rough epoch]

I guess star lord hasn't shown up much in his adult form yet

[indigo geyser]

Still wouldn’t you want to try to come up with something for that role?

You’ve got Chris Pratt lmao

[rough epoch]

True

Maybe s3

[indigo geyser]

I dunno? Story-wise I don’t mind that Star Lord isn’t in What If..? much but that feels like a waste

[rough epoch]

You think he could voice another character?

[indigo geyser]

Yeah probably

[rough epoch]

Yeah that's possible

[indigo geyser]

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[brisk orbit]

This is my favourite epizode in season 2 but it's nothing to the Supreme Strange epizode in season 1

[indigo geyser]

Second worst episode for me

Only beaten out by the awful finale

My ranking #daredevil-born-again-s2-spoilers message

[silver hare]

I was quite fond of the character relationships in the second episode

Although I was also quite impressed by the strong Blade Runner thematic style from the first episode

[neon patrol]

Idk, I guess seeing that episode was really cool. Seeing the characters I haven’t ever really seen before or in a while. The time it was set in and also seeing what could have happened if Yondu actually gave Peter up to his dad.

[dusty adder]

Because we got to see Hulk Hogan

[indigo geyser]

No one did. Just sharing

This is a poll about which episodes are our favorites afterall

My ranking shows which ones I like most and which ones I like least

[tawny shale]

💀

[tawny shale]

Agreed

We got to see Hank Pym, Goliath, T'Chaka, etc

[slim thicket]

I loved the Christmas episode but episode 2 showed us what of heroes of 20ths century came together so I voted for episode 2

And I think nobody cared about first episode

[neon patrol]

Yeah I didn’t like the first episode as much. Nothing against Nebula, it’s just I was a bit confused at all the stuff that was happening.

[scarlet storm]

Episodes 1 and 2 were the peak part of the season

[indigo geyser]

Episode 1 was mid

Episode 2 was the second worst