Do you consider Civil War a Captain America or Avengers film?

[late herald]

Should Civil War have been it's own separate film?

[worldly pond]

should have been an avengers film

[wild oasis]

Shut

[dense coyote]

had no specific focus on Captain America himself honestly

[wild oasis]

Well, Technically

[dense coyote]

i think they just wanted to end his trilogy with a final movie lol

[tardy sundial]

A Captain America film ig

[uncut trail]

An Avengers film, since Steve has less focus and more focus is on the changing status quo for superheroes and the drama and break-up of the Avengers.

[fallen remnant]

i think it was called captain america cause it was Steve VS. Tony

but still had all the avengers except Thor and Hulk so Avengers film

[wild oasis]

I feel like a Captain America film is its own self contained story for the most part that doesn’t include many familiar heroes unless needed

Civil war isn’t that

[wild oasis]

so it’s a avengers film that just has captain americas name slapped on it

[swift hill]

A part of it focuses on Bucky but the other main part focuses on Steve vs tony

it’s technically a avengers film

[wild oasis]

I feel like civil war tho could’ve been done a lot better but it did it’s part in the ongoing story

[tame topaz]

Pretty much

It focuses on many hero’s that are from the avengers and introduced new ones to the mcu

Like Spider-Man and black panther

Tbh I watched it as a kid for Spider-Man cause he is my fav superhero lol

I ligit didn’t care about black panther or the other characters

Just Spider-Man

[drifting latch]

It was like Avengers 2,5

Definitely not a "Captain America" movie, it was about most of them

[deft stream]

it’s literally titled Captain America: Civil War. it’s more of an avengers spinoff

[smoky summit]

I see it as an avengers movie which is focused around captain America
Like how infinity war is focused around Thor

[lament vigil]

Its basically an avengers movie that they accidentally named captain america

[inner eagle]

Its totally an avengers movie

The freakin avengers battle and the two main guys (tony and steve) get in a fight

Avengers civil war

[raw orchid]

It’s a captain America film cause he’s highlight

[bitter atlas]

Civil War was an avengers film

[mellow sable]

Cap

[bitter atlas]

Although it was named a captain america movie him and iron man share almost the exact same amount of screen time.

You could have called it iron man civil war lol

[worthy drum]

No, the film was good the way it was

[bitter atlas]

What are you saying no to?

Also which side is right? Cap or iron man

No objective truth its just interesting

[raw orchid]

No side is right

It’s just misunderstandings

[bitter atlas]

I would say captain america is right because our government is corrupt as hell

[raw orchid]

Where do you live?

As an American

I can agree with you

[bitter atlas]

America

[raw orchid]

Government is corrupted

As fuck

[worthy drum]

I say Cap myself

If you wanna regulate superheroes fine, but maybe regulate the corporations first

[wild oasis]

It’s called Captain America: Civil War, it’s automatically a Captain America film from the title but it’s a Captain America film with the Avengers in it

Woah, what happened to the bot? 💀

[hazy obsidian]

Third film should've been serpent society

[dense coyote]

i mean... the focus isn't even on captain america lmao

[wild oasis]

Captain America is the most important character in the film and 99% of the movie is revolved around him, not sure what you’re referring to

[dense coyote]

he really isn't the most important character in the film lol did we watch the same movie

it genuinely felt like an Avengers movie

doesn't make it bad, it just felt more like an Avengers movie than a CA one

[wild oasis]

Let’s go over it

1. Captain America was the main character
2. Captain America broke up the Avengers
3. Captain America tried to help Bucky
4. Captain America didn’t trust the accords so he split the heroes
5. Captain America broke out the Avengers that were imprisoned

Many other reasons, what exactly isn’t about Captain America in the movie?

[dense coyote]

u just listed things he did? i can also list things Hawkeye did in the movie, or Vision, or Black Widow, Iron man

does that make them the main characters?

[wild oasis]

I listed the most important parts of the movie, but again what apart of the movie doesn’t involve Captain America?

[dense coyote]

what part of the movie doesn't involve Iron man?

[wild oasis]

So you aren’t going to answer the question? Deflection is pointless

[dense coyote]

1. Tony Stark agreed with the accords

2. Tony chased after Bucky

3. Tony insisted on keeping the team together

4. Tony fought against Cap when he didn't sign the accords and went against them, as well as both him and Bucky when he found out Bucky murdered his parents

5. Tony put the Avengers who didn't sign the accords in jail

[wild oasis]

It’s a Captain America movie chief

[dense coyote]

i am asking the same question about iron man... because with your logic, he is the main character too but its just his name that isnt in the title

i am not debating that Captain America has no screen time/importance, i am just saying other characters have similar importance and use in the plot

[wild oasis]

The only difference is that I’m making a valid point on why it’s more if a Captain America movie than it is Iron Man’s, that’s including the title

[dense coyote]

therefore it does not feel like his own solo movie

[wild oasis]

Ok, so are you saying it’s an Iron Man movie?

[dense coyote]

ok but the question isn't about the title lol it's about the movie itself

[dense coyote]

bro

what

how is that what you got from what im saying lol

[wild oasis]

Movie title is apart of the movie, in fact it’s the most important aspect of a movie

[dense coyote]

it was just an example for a character that had similar points and importance in the plot like Captain America which you used for him to prove he is the main character and therefore it's his own movie

[wild oasis]

It’s a question

[dense coyote]

imagine saying the most important aspect of a movie is its title

LMFAOOOOOOO

[wild oasis]

Ok? Is it not?

[dense coyote]

no

it's not

[wild oasis]

Superman movie is not the most important part of what the movie is about?

Lmfao ok

[dense coyote]

can u please read ur messages twice before u send them

[inner eagle]

Could be an ironman movie by that logic he has the same amount of screentime as cap

Also spidey is introduced how is it not an avengers movie

[wild oasis]

Movie titles must be completely irrelevant, and definitely not the main point of what a movie is

[dense coyote]

never said they are irrelevant, but they are not the most important aspect of a movie LOLL

[inner eagle]

^^

[wild oasis]

Tell me what I said that was wrong for you to be giving that advice

[wild oasis]

Sarcasm chief, secondly how is it not the most important part of what a movie is about?

[dense coyote]

"Superman movie is not the most important part of what the movie is about" literally what does that mean? u didnt even specify WHAT in the Superman movie is the most important part

[dense coyote]

you say it's sarcasm and then you continue to push your point about it being the most important part of a movie

[dense coyote]

^

i have no idea what you're trying to argue at this point, you're spewing nonsense

[wild oasis]

Yes, a Superman titled movie is the main aspect of WHAT the movie is about and everything DERIVES from the title

That’s the entire point of titling

[dense coyote]

you didn't say that in that message, you didn't say the word title at all lol you just said "Superman movie"

[inner eagle]

This argument is crazy what 😭

[dense coyote]

again, i never said it was irrelevant or useless, i said it is not the most important part of a movie....

[wild oasis]

The sarcasm part was on me mentioning the part where it’s irrelevant lol

[dense coyote]

i have no idea what he's trying to prove at this point

[dense coyote]

👍 💯

[wild oasis]

That’s entire point I was making this entire time

Superman was just an example

[dense coyote]

we didn't even speak of the title as the main point at the beginning, though

but okay

[wild oasis]

💪

[dense coyote]

this is really pointless because we're going nowhere lol

[wild oasis]

How is that relevant? It’s a point that was brought up regardless, and as long as we establish that titles are the most important aspect of a movie then my point stands

[wild oasis]

If you say so lol 💀

[dense coyote]

because you said it was the entire point you were making the entire time.... it wasn't the entire point

[inner eagle]

The title of the movie doesn’t effect the story

Like

At all

[wild oasis]

Yes, the entire point the entire time was on movie titles and the importance of it, Superman was an example of that…

Maybe you misunderstood, it happens

[dense coyote]

he's claiming that even though Captain America and Iron man hold the same importance to the plot and are both very main characters, the only reason that Captain America 'wins' is because of the title

when we're talking about the content of the film, not the title

[dense coyote]

i am talking about the beginning of the conversation

[inner eagle]

This argument is wild

[wild oasis]

I’m saying Captain America is more important and it’s his decisions that are the main focus on the movie

[inner eagle]

Thanks

[dense coyote]

how is this the point of your title importance rant

[wild oasis]

From the accords/ to Bucky/ to him separating the Avengers

[dense coyote]

feel like a summary was necessary 🙏

[wild oasis]

Again, that’s not relevant since you fixated on the title aspect of my point

[dense coyote]

lol do i really have to repeat myself

JFKIOEWNJFHEIuowg

YOU SAID THE TITLE

AND THE IMPORTANCE

were ur point

wtf

can you not scroll up and re-read what i said instead of bringing up the same topic and having the same conversation we had literally minutes ago

[wild oasis]

I was clarifying my point since you misunderstood what I was arguing

I’m going to be honest, calm down chief, stop being condescending and questioning people’s intelligence

[dense coyote]

"title aspect of my point"

[wild oasis]

Yes

[dense coyote]

u literally said the entire point the entire time was on movie titles

[wild oasis]

Because it is…

[dense coyote]

i am trying to understand why you're repeating yourself like a broken record

[dense coyote]

then why did you say "the title aspect of my point" if it's literally the whole point

[wild oasis]

Because when you’re trying to tell me what my arguments are without understanding then it’s my job to correct you

It’s simple

[wild oasis]

Because it is the entire point, from my first message on the topic, I mentioned the title and everything else were sub points

[inner eagle]

But it also includes the enitrety of the avengers and the plot is about the avengers and their break up

The movie is about the avengers it even introduces a few new members

we shouldnt only focus on the title character and ignore the resr of the film

Avengers civil war

[wild oasis]

Lmfao, W deflection, seem great at it, stealing the video too 💀

[dense coyote]

it isn't "W deflection" there is quite literally no point lol

you're the one deflecting and focusing on the title instead of the actual film

[dense coyote]

^

[wild oasis]

Lmfao only someone who lost would say that 💀

[wild oasis]

I spoke on both chief

[dense coyote]

"chief"

[dense coyote]

yes i totally lost you are so right

this is completely and totally only a Captain America movie

for sure

i am sure in this discussion, that i lost

[wild oasis]

💀

No gifs?

[inner eagle]

Fr he and bucky the only people in the movie

[dense coyote]

W deflection 🥺

[wild oasis]

Anyway, thanks for the acknowledgment, all I need 💀

[dense coyote]

real!!! they the most important cause yk, Captain America is in the title...

[wild oasis]

Ikr

[inner eagle]

Ofc ofc

Nobody else matters but the title character duh

[dense coyote]

it doesn't matter that other characters held the same importance and even screentime.... Captain has the title so he wins fair and square

[wild oasis]

And yes, it says so in the title, Captain America guest starring the Avengers 💀

[wild oasis]

W take

[dense coyote]

again only using the title as your point

ok!

[wild oasis]

“Only”…riiight

I didn’t mention anything else

[inner eagle]

I mean it is your only point everything else is built off it or can be easily argued against

[dense coyote]

u did, but they were counter-argued (corrected myself cause idk English the best) because both me and Nexus explained to you how other characters are also just as important

[wild oasis]

My entire point was on Captain America having the most important role, not that anyone else is as important, that’s just false, the title is just my main point with other examples and sub points

That’s not the only point I made though

[inner eagle]

He does have the most important role but that doesnt make him the only focus

[wild oasis]

W take, which is exactly what I’m saying

[dense coyote]

I feel like Iron man has just as much importance

🤷‍♀️

[wild oasis]

Why’s that exactly?

[inner eagle]

I agree with that

[dense coyote]

i showed it earlier

wait let me reply to it

[dense coyote]

replied to ur own list of Captain America actions with iron man's

[dense coyote]

where i replied to your other point

like i said

repetitive

[warm laurel]

Civil war is easily a mini avengers film

[dense coyote]

lol real

[inner eagle]

Real

[wild oasis]

I personally wouldn’t say that it’s as important as Caps, but that’s understandable

[warm laurel]

Captain marvel 2 should hve also been a mini avengers film and the super skrulls could hve been the enemies instead of what they did for secret invasion

But I don’t mind The Marvels

[wild oasis]

Sure, but with a Captain America title and with him being the main character with the most important role

[dense coyote]

thanks for acknowledging my point at last lmao

[dense coyote]

i have a feeling it will be a letdown

[wild oasis]

No problemo 💪

[warm laurel]

I mean it was basically an avengers film instead he was the lead role

[wild oasis]

Now that’s pretty accurate

[warm laurel]

I don’t the trailer looked great I’m hyped

[wild oasis]

Hello

[dense coyote]

oh wow really?

first time i've heard that

[inner eagle]

It looks cool

[warm laurel]

U were probably on the sexiest side of marvel where they glorify men and bash women especially Brie Larson but from a spectator POV the trailer looked great

[dense coyote]

idk it feels underwhelming to me, maybe bc i've been disappointed by most of the last movies

[dense coyote]

no i'm really not lol

i love Brie Larson, i just don't think this movie will be good based off of last projects

[inner eagle]

Oh hey same name

[warm laurel]

People keep saying this like if spider man Shang chi black panther and guardians 3 don’t exist

[inner eagle]

Ofc ofc

[dense coyote]

people have different taste? they can like and dislike different things... also, spider-man was only good because of the nostalgia effect of it

[warm laurel]

We as fans need to remember that the infinity saga and avengers endgame took YEARS to build and u can’t expect to love everything marvel puts out

[dense coyote]

no... there is reasons as to why they're failing right now, you don't have to completely ignore every form of criticism just because you're a fan

[warm laurel]

Nahhh the story the acting the plot 10/10

[inner eagle]

Hell yeah

[dense coyote]

plot definitely not a 10

i loved it, but i'm aware it had flaws lol

[inner eagle]

Ive liked most marvel projects so far this year

[warm laurel]

Lmao marvel isn’t failing the fans just hve weirdly high expectations like if every movie is gonna be the next endgame or every show is gonna hve some big crossover

[inner eagle]

That’s exactly whats happening

[dense coyote]

no... not at all. Thor 4 is a perfectly good example

[inner eagle]

Thor 4 was garbage

So was thor 2 and 1

[warm laurel]

Lol the plot was great where are the flaws I don’t understand

[dense coyote]

the workers are being overworked and put in awful working conditions to push out projects like a factory and it gives us products like this. the CGI workers that produced Thor 4 literally said this

and that's why there is a writers strike

[inner eagle]

Yeah im very aware of the strike

I support it completely but people do have too high expectations

[warm laurel]

So u actively acknowledge that not every marvel project is gonna swoop u off ur feet’s yet ur complaining about marvel content being bad lately I don’t understand y’all honestly

[inner eagle]

Im not complaining

[dense coyote]

Doctor Strange was a complete dofus, as someone who is meant to be one of the greatest sorcerers - him fucking up a spell like that was completely out of character and just dumb, some of the villains teleported into the MCU didn't even know who peter parker was so therefore them teleporting there made no sense...

[dense coyote]

i came with VERY low expectations to Antman 3 😭 and i had none for She Hulk or Ms Marvel....

i am not doing this to hate, i genuinely loved Marvel

[inner eagle]

I feel so bad for the writers and cgi artists

[warm laurel]

All the villains knew who Peter was lmaooo😭😭😭 and also Peter was the once who messed up the spell when he kept adding changes to it

[inner eagle]

Ive gone back to the comics at this point

[dense coyote]

exactly... there's a reason the quality is bad. we used to get marvel movies every longer periods of time and therefore they let their quality be higher because they could be worked on for longer

[inner eagle]

Isnt he like 17

[warm laurel]

Ms marvel was great lmaoooo sometimes I wonder if y’all r actually fans or just movie critics 😭😭😭😭

Like I can acknowledge when something is bad but calling everything bad is overdoing it

[inner eagle]

I liked ms marvel but i like other stuff better

[dense coyote]

Doctor Strange should have known to ask him that question before he started the spell... he has a brain. also, did you watch the Spider-Man movies? Lizard (Connors) didn't know, Electro didn't know who Spider-Man was under the mask, he literally finds out IN No Way Home...

"i thought you were gonna be black"

[warm laurel]

People so scared to admit that Ms marvel was actually a good show

[inner eagle]

The only two marvel projects i hated are shehulk and dark world

Everything else i enjoyed

[dense coyote]

i am not calling everything bad, and also like I said earlier people have different tastes....

you don't have to be blind to bad aspects of Marvel just bc you're a fan

[dense coyote]

it wasn't the best

[dense coyote]

.

[dense coyote]

Thor 4? Antman 3? MoM? 😭

[inner eagle]

Oh yeah forgot about antman 3

Probably on purpose

[dense coyote]

LMAO real

[warm laurel]

Omgggg when y’all analyze the stupidest details y’all really drain the enjoyment out of these movies

[inner eagle]

I liked MoM actually
Idk i thought it was cool writing could have been better

There are worse mcu projects

[dense coyote]

it isn't the stupidest details... it's literally the plot mate

[warm laurel]

I’m not blind I just don’t criticize everything down to the flesh

[dense coyote]

it isn't down to the flesh it's outright the plot lol

[warm laurel]

It is the stupidest detail because who is even paying attention to that

[dense coyote]

well i mean, each to their own i guess

[dense coyote]

many, many people lmao

the "stupidest" details are important

i'm not forcing you to change your opinions or say you have to dislike it, not at all

[inner eagle]

Yeah he was very out of character in that movie

[dense coyote]

but i am saying people are allowed to criticise Marvel for their disappointments lately while still being fans, there is nothing wrong with admitting something has flaws

[warm laurel]

They really arnt that’s y majority of people still heavily enjoyed the film literally put in is marvels top five

[inner eagle]

Nvm there are alot more i just completely tried to forget them😭

[dense coyote]

nostalgia effect left a good mark 👍

[dense coyote]

LOL

she hulk was truly a disaster honestly

[inner eagle]

TOP 5!?

Hell no

[warm laurel]

Check the boards

Still topping

[inner eagle]

It amazes me that people like that show

[dense coyote]

yeah same 😭 it physically hurt to watch the first episode

[warm laurel]

Lol the thing about she hulk is that it’s bad but I still wanna watch it

[dense coyote]

what boards

[inner eagle]

Hurt to watch every episode

[warm laurel]

Lol this is overdoing it because everybody was happy to see Wong and daredevil let’s be honest

[inner eagle]

Oh yeah i love daredevil

[dense coyote]

sameeee

[dense coyote]

it isn't overdoing it, you're just blind to criticism at this point

[inner eagle]

The daredevil show was absolutely amazing and so are his comics

[dense coyote]

by the way, not top five

[dense coyote]

YES!! i am so scared they will ruin him in the new show

[inner eagle]

Oh im so worried

[warm laurel]

I’m too big of a marvel fan to be bothered so yeah I guess

[inner eagle]

I heard itll be gritty like the netflix one so thats a good sign

[dense coyote]

so discussing you whether a Marvel production is good or not is pointless because you will always answer yes

regardless of its actual quality

[warm laurel]

I said marvels top five

[inner eagle]

Thats honestly sad

[dense coyote]

that's why i asked what boards, you didn't answer

[dense coyote]

yeah it is

[warm laurel]

No I’ll agree when something is bad but I’m also gonna agree when it had its good moments

Also I didn’t say I love she hulk

[inner eagle]

You should be able to enjoy something while still seeing its flaws tho

[dense coyote]

you just said "I’m too big of a marvel fan to be bothered so yeah I guess" when I said you're blind to criticism

you quite literally agreed with me

[warm laurel]

I also said I’ll agree when something is bad but I’ll also agree when it has good moments guess u left that out

[dense coyote]

i didn't leave that out, i recalled what you had said just a moment ago

i find it hard to believe what you're saying when you just said Nexus' opinion of She Hulk is overdoing it while not even watching the show yet lol and you even said you heard it's bad

[warm laurel]

Exactly 💀

[inner eagle]

wait you havent even watched it-

Bro what

[warm laurel]

I didn’t say that tf? I did watch the show now ur just switching up my wording but carry on

[inner eagle]

What is happening

[dense coyote]

no you said "i still wanna watch it" which implies you haven't watched it yet

guess i misunderstood lol

English isn't my first language so i understand it best when it's proper grammar

[warm laurel]

It’s clear u got the wrong implication I agreed that it’s bad but that’s also the reason why I continued to watch it

[warm laurel]

Or ur just slow

[dense coyote]

you continued to watch it because it's bad?

[dense coyote]

so you're resorting to insults now? nice

[warm laurel]

Because how would I hve know Wong and daredevil were in it?

[dense coyote]

it was... hyped everywhere? lol

even my friends who didn't watch it knew

[warm laurel]

Now ur getting defensive lmaooo😭😭😭

[inner eagle]

I only watched it once i heard matt was in it 😭

[dense coyote]

how...? 😭

how was that in any way defensive

[dense coyote]

LMAOOO

[warm laurel]

Anywayz

[dense coyote]

like Blue Marvel said

W deflection

[inner eagle]

LMAO

[dense coyote]

oopssss

[inner eagle]

This got incredibly off topic incredibly fast

[dense coyote]

it always does honestly lol

[inner eagle]

Nice

[uneven radish]

I’ll be honest I don’t really think it’s either

[inner eagle]

What do you think it is?

[elfin stratus]

What is it

[uneven radish]

Just neither, really

It’s not an avengers movie because it doesn’t have avengers in the title (I suppose you could say it is though because it focuses on the avengers) but I wouldn’t say it’s a captain America movie either because it doesn’t just focus on captain America

[foggy forge]

Both Tony and Steve are the main characters

[wild oasis]

Technically the only main character is Captain America, Iron Man just has an important role as the “antagonist” for the “protagonist”…

[deft stream]

it’s like an avengers spinoff to me. a captain america based spinoff following his POV after the avengers all fall out with each other

that’s why i’d say it’s a captain america film

also because it is literally the title

[foggy forge]

The antagonist can be a main character in a film

They're just not the protagonist

[winged spire]

captain america had the best trilogy (in my opinion)

[lusty thicket]

I think it should've been a series instead to give more insight upon certain issues in MCU that were briefly mentioned in movie

[wild oasis]

The “main” character is the protagonist, the main character can never be a secondary character within the protagonist show/ movie, I’m not denying the fact that the antagonist can be almost as important, but it’s still not the main character level of importance

[wild oasis]

W take, better than Thor’s trilogy for sure 💀

[foggy forge]

You seem to forget that both the protagonist and antagonist can be main characters

The protagonist may be the primary main character or so

[wild oasis]

Not really, I’m using the definition of the word and I’m referring to the importance within the movie as well

[foggy forge]

But an antagonist can be a main character

[winged spire]

no cause fr

[winged spire]

what was his hair and no eyebrows in the first one

[foggy forge]

I'm using the definitions as well

Both were important

[wild oasis]

There can only be 1 main, the definition wouldn’t make any sense if there’s multiple mains, otherwise you could say there’s 5 main characters all as important as the protagonist

[foggy forge]

I'm just saying there can be two main characters

[foggy forge]

???

[wild oasis]

Not the definition of main…

[foggy forge]

Guess you've never heard of dual protagonism

[wild oasis]

How many main characters do you think there is in movies/ shows? Do you believe there’s no limit to main characters?

[wild oasis]

Except for the fact that Captain America wasn’t that

[foggy forge]

U just that that there can be only 1 main character

[wild oasis]

Secondly that’s not accurate, what’s an example of dual protagonism?

[foggy forge]

I simply brought to your attention that dual protagonism exists

I wasn't referring to Captain America at the moment

[wild oasis]

Yes, it wouldn’t make sense otherwise

[wild oasis]

Example?

[foggy forge]

Buddy films

[wild oasis]

Movie references? Show references?

[foggy forge]

Altho I didn't watch it, I want to assume Ted was one

[wild oasis]

Example?

[foggy forge]

I don't watch buddy films

But I want to assume Ted was one

[wild oasis]

Ted was the protagonist, especially since his name is on the title

[foggy forge]

Am I right or wrong @tulip glade @celest blaze

[wild oasis]

“Ted and friends” isn’t dual protagonistic

[foggy forge]

What about Butch and Sundance

[wild oasis]

Never heard of it, I’ll look it up, but can you send the definition of dual protagonism?

[foggy forge]

Yh np

[wild oasis]

I was referring to a credible source

[foggy forge]

What would you consider a credible source

[wild oasis]

I understand this concept, but not the one you’re referring to as examples, I’ve seen movies where there are 2 main characters with 2 different scenes and both are the main characters, but that’s nothing like what we see in the Civil War movie

[wild oasis]

Google Oxford or a source from a reputable website that everyone/ most people knows of or uses

[foggy forge]

Ok

[wild oasis]

Or even Webster works

[wild oasis]

I don’t need the definition anymore, I understand your point, I was just confused at first

[foggy forge]

Oh okay

[warm dove]

I literally thought it was called Avengers Civil War for a long time, till someone harshly corrected me 😭 lmao

[wild oasis]

But just to clarify, you’re saying that Captain America is dual protagonists similarly to a buddy film?

[celest blaze]

Yes you are

Yes dual protagonists exist

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo

The Prestige

Lost In Translation

Thelma and Louise

[foggy forge]

No I just mentioned the buddy film as an example of dual protagonism. I believe captain america has 2 main characters, similar to dual protagonist films.

[celest blaze]

Toy Story arguably

Hell or High Water

All examples

[foggy forge]

cool thanks 👍

[wild oasis]

Fair enough, I guess we just shared a different perspective of how we see the movie

[foggy forge]

yeah i guess so

[faint dome]

lizard knew right? I remember peter set up the camera in the sewers for his fight with lizard but the dumbass left "Property of Peter Parker" on it so when Lizard found the camera he figured out that Peter = Spiderman.

Or do you mean that the Lizard knows who he is but not Curt Connors?

[dense coyote]

the lizard IS curt connors...

either way, still leaves us electro lol

[dense coyote]

gotg's trilogy surpasses tbh

[winged spire]

i cannot disagree

[dense coyote]

🇼

[plucky hound]

Guardians demolishes

If we just counting MCU trilogies guardians is by far the best MCU trilogy

It’s the only MCU trilogy where all 3 films are equally good

[winged spire]

facts fr

[dense coyote]

^^^^

[safe ember]

It's the only MCU trilogy with good films xd

[tulip glade]

About dual protagonism being a thing?

Yeah

And yes CW is an example of it

@wild oasis if you want a better example of a film featuring dual protagonism which is more similar to this film I recommend watching the prestige if you haven't yet

[plucky hound]

The Prestige is cool

One of Nolan’s weirder films

Def the better Christian bale performance in a Nolan movie

[tulip glade]

Also you better not count that as a debate win lmao

Definitely

[plucky hound]

Bales Batman I can’t take seriously

His Bruce I can

But his Batman nahhhhh

[steady raptor]

naaah. i lovbed the movie for whatever reason. just pointing out/answering the question that it was just an avengers movie rather than its title to be about Cap.

[lilac talon]

It was definitely an Avengers movie but they wanted to have the Captain America trilogy in name alone

[celest blaze]

Christian bale has no good performances

[scarlet pond]

but American Psycho :(

[dense coyote]

American Psycho is overrated

[scarlet pond]

but he's literally me :(

[dense coyote]

A loser

Christian Bale’s words not mine

[scarlet pond]

:(

[pseudo sluice]

I mean technically its a Captain America story since he and his beliefs are the main focus, but the overall feel is more like an Avengers film.

[wild oasis]

I’ll look into it 💪

[plucky hound]

it's still a great performance

[foggy forge]

Ah yes. The prestige

Good example

[foggy forge]

Lmaoo

[faint dome]

lol

[stiff pendant]

i reckon its Cap 3 and Avengers 2.5

[plucky hound]

he was great in american psycho and the prestige

[willow tartan]

Well if civil war is an event film than a cap film, then the same could be said about DS2MoM and NWH being an "event film" then a doctor strange film or spidey film

[plucky hound]

no way home at least has a compelling arc for tom

civil war does for cap as well but it feels like an avengers movie

i feel no way home still feels like a movie about tom's spiderman

[willow tartan]

I don't, cause there was too much emphasis on the previous Spider-Man and the villains, I bet you if you take Tobey, Andrew, Charlie cox and the previous villains, it would never had made that much and be Highly regarded anyways. Those other characters and actors only made Tom "better", not the other way around.

Same with civil war, take away alot of the characters that was in it and I don't think it would have done as well as it did

So it is less of a "cap film" as much as NWH is less of a "Tom Holland spidey film"

[plucky hound]

no doubt the older characters made the movie as popular as it was, the movie ultimately still has a good narrative arc for tom

the movie is still completely centered around tom's spiderman

the other spider characters benefit his arc and def feel like side characters

cap civil war if anything is a tony and cap film

since both tony and cap basically get the same amount of shit in the movie

the other spidermen in no way home def feel like side characters who just benefit tom's main arc while they both have their smaller arcs

and the villains especially norman clearly benefit tom's spiderman

its still very much centered specifically on tom's journey

[willow tartan]

Not really, cause many people consider it the closing of a Spider-Man 4 for tobey AND TASM3 for Andrew and all 3 got a pretty good decent amount of screen time, alongside doctor strange, I just don't see NWH as a Tom's film as much as I don't see civil war as a cap film

[plucky hound]

yeah but tom's arc is ultimately the focus of the film

and the film makes it very clear

[willow tartan]

To me it doesn't

[plucky hound]

civil war is very much about both tony and cap on the same amount of level

as opposed to the spidermen still feeling like side characters in nwh

obviously andrew gets his gwen arc concluded and peter gets a chance to do better by his villains but those still don't feel as important as tom's arc

[willow tartan]

NWH and Civil War is essentially a fancast event film

[plucky hound]

either way both films are far from the best in the cbm genre

[willow tartan]

Tom didn't even get his own villain for NWH, but the other 2 did

[willow tartan]

Ehhh, it is just a fandom culmination that's all

[plucky hound]

norman's goblin was clearly his villain

hell he did way worse shit to him than he ever did to tobey lol

[willow tartan]

Nah, that is still originally tobeys villain used for tom, in civil war however, cap HAS his personal villain, Zemo

If anything, scorpion should have been Tom's villian

[plucky hound]

it is tobey's original villain but he proves to be an even better antagonist for tom

so it works out

to be fair it's hard to fumble when you have willem dafoe's goblin tho

best decision they made was to get rid of that stupid mask

willem dafoe's facial expressions are so good

[willow tartan]

I disagree, tom should have his own villian, not riding on the tail coats of Tobey's villian, at least in civil war, cap still had a villian made for him, but just didn't fight him and Zemo used Tony as his personal henchmen to fight cap for zemos own gain, GG from tobey is just someone we already knew was evil from a different universe

[plucky hound]

yeah but norman proves to be an even better villain for tom and pushes him to a limit we have never seen tom go to before

tom will get his own amazing villain next trilogy anyways

scorpion will be one but i doubt that will be his best (i love michael mando tho)

my guess is kingpin and scorpion will be villains for the first one, not sure who will be villain for 5 and 6 will def have ned finally become the hobgoblin

[willow tartan]

Ehh he wasn't an original villian tho, again we already know who GG is and what is he capable of from Tobey's universe, you don't see Civil War borrowing another character from another movie to use as a plot device to be the main character' villian? So, I don't see much of a connection and put both NWH and Civil War as "Event films" not as a "cap or Tom spidey" film, respectively.

[plucky hound]

they are both event films but i feel nwh focuses more on tom's arc than civil war does on cap

civil war obviously focuses on cap but also gives the same amount of focus to tony

they are very much both equally important to the film

[willow tartan]

I don't, they both equally focus outside of their MC's story in my POV

[plucky hound]

fair enough

both movies are event films

i would say no way home is the strongest tom holland spiderman film but im not sure if civil war is better than winter soldier

[willow tartan]

Both are decent films tho, but not like "Best CBM of all time" tho

[plucky hound]

obviously

the highest the mcu will ever get is the guardians films and they are 9s at best

[willow tartan]

That depends on the person, I have seen and heard some say that Civil War is a better cap film than winter soldier and heard others say otherwise and vice versa, kinda the same with Tom, but problem is, most people would agree and say the cap franchise is better than the Tom spidey cause not many people talk highly about homecoming or FFH much than they do with WS, or TFA

[plucky hound]

far from home is a 6/10 id say

homecoming is a 7

nwh is a higher 7 than homecoming

[willow tartan]

That is probably the only franchise to have it, cause at this point, none of the other marvel projects franchises have a good streak outside of GOTG, Cap is very close but with F&WS and the upcoming Cap 4, that is definitely going to change real quick

[plucky hound]

both the cap and tom trilogies share the fact that they both have a movie significantly weaker than the other two movies (cap 1 and ffh respectively)

[plucky hound]

first cap movie isn't bad but it's clearly weaker than the other two

[willow tartan]

That's true, but depending on who you talk to cause many folks still shit on phase 1 content, while over inflating phase 3

[plucky hound]

yeah cap 1 isn't bad it just doesn't have the punch the other two do

the guardians trilogy just stands out from the rest of the mcu due to how unique the style is

they feel like james gunn movies

and not just another studio made marvel film

[willow tartan]

Exactly, that's why it is held up in high esteem in the Fandom, but funny enough, none of the GOTG films made a bill in Box office, but NWH and Civil War did

And both had alot of cameos and characters involved

[plucky hound]

well yeah money doesn't exactly translate to quality most of the time

nowadays it is though

cbms that are ass are finally failing at the box office

spiderverse and guardians 3 both did well though due to actually being good films

meanwhile the flash flopped hard and blue beetle is looking to be that way as well

most likely the marvels too

people finally want good shit again

[willow tartan]

Don't forget the issues with the D+ shows as well

[plucky hound]

yup

disney + killed the mcu imo

it became quantity over quality

people now know that you don't have to watch every mcu project because most of them are going to be bad lol

[willow tartan]

That's cause when CW came out and phase 3 was highly anticipated, fans wanted the marvel 12 TV shows to connect with the film universe in some way

[plucky hound]

yeah the infinity saga actually had buildup to it

this new saga just feels like it's going everywhere and nowhere at the same time

not to mention the characters just arent as good

there's no tony's or steve's

most of the characters people really cared about have either died or retired or in the case of thor been completely ruined

[willow tartan]

That's cause alot of the characters being shown, especially on D+ aren't really "leading characters" I don't recall anyone asking for a she hulk solo series, F&WS, etc. And most even said secret invasion might have worked better as a film event like CW and NWH, than a dumbed down D+ TV miniseries

[plucky hound]

yeah good point

also the shows and movies these new characters are in are usually dogshit so that doesn't help

[willow tartan]

Probably there is only like 1 character/film/show, since the multiverse saga began, that I enjoyed debuting in marvel(including Sony stuff too)

[plucky hound]

yeah the only characters i like from marvel (including non mcu stuff) nowadays are the spiderverse ones

[willow tartan]

Also, we got to remember is that it was during dark times with the pandemic and it was right after Endgame so the expections was defined warped imo

[plucky hound]

true but there has been a clear decline in quality

shit like thor love and thunder and antman 3 is why people have been turning away from the mcu nowadays

actual shitstorms of movies

not to mention shows like she hulk and secret invasion

[willow tartan]

It's cause marvel studios and even sony, are doing too much, they should have just let another department handle the shows and animations and just let them do what they do best so there is some sort of "focus" or "focal point" cause having to work on like 4+ films plus like 4+ shows in 1 year is a bit excessive

[plucky hound]

yeah it's quantity over quality

the old model would have been way better but now people have severe fatigue for all these mid ass shows and movies

they will have to try hard to get people to care again

[willow tartan]

That's the challenge both Sony and Disney have to go thru to earn the fan base back

Especially comic book fans

[plucky hound]

yeah

the only shit people are excited for is actually good shit

like spiderverse, the batman 2 and hopefully deadpool 3

[willow tartan]

Like if you look at civil war in mcu, it definitely is dumbed down compared to the comic counter part

[plucky hound]

true

a lot of mcu ideas are half baked

i do like what they did with thanos though

[willow tartan]

That's cause they didn't make him simp for death like the did in the comics and want him to be more threatening than DC's Darkseid

[plucky hound]

yeah

[willow tartan]

I feel that Deadpool 3 is going to be a huge cash grab and not really "in-tune" with the other 2 Deadpool films cause although it is still R rated and trying to keep the "spirit" of the character intact, it is still under Disney and you can't really trust Disney or Sony to really do certain characters justice.

I mean, it might do well just with branding alone, but it is really uncertain until the film comes out

[plucky hound]

i have slight hope it will be a satire on multiverse films

[willow tartan]

Maybe it will be as good as CW and NWH, but who knows, cause it could very well be an "event film" just like alot of "3rd film trilogies" has, so far

[plucky hound]

it would seem in tune with the deadpool movies for them to make fun of multiverse movies

i think that may be what they will do so im nervously excited

as long as it makes fun of multiverse movies i feel itll be good

[willow tartan]

We just have to wait and see and check if the humor is decent or just dry as hell again cause Marvel hasn't been good with the humor lately, just look at L&T and Quantumania as examples

[plucky hound]

its the same team that made the og deadpool movies though

i doubt the humor will be different

hopefully they will cook

but you never know these days

[willow tartan]

True, but don't forget, just cause you have the same team, doesn't mean there won't be any "studio interference" aka Disney

Or the studio putting parameters, filters, limiters, cause remember, Deadpool 3 is suppose to be part of the mcu

So they will try to implement and make Deadpool fit in the mcu under Disney terms, not based in the franchise itself, which was under Fox at the time

And just like civil war or NWH or even MoM, there is a possibility that Deadpool 3 won't even be about wade Wilson and more about the cameos or spectacles around it

[plucky hound]

fair enough

i hope they let them cook tho

[delicate spruce]

Yes

[faint dome]

did u see that guy on youtube prewriting the college trilogy

its good but it adapts a lot from spectacular

i watched it like 2 months ago but its a rlly cool plot with scorpion and kingpin and tombstone

also i got bit by a mosquito i blame you lol

[plucky hound]

my bad lol

[plucky hound]

i remember watching one of his vids a while ago

[willow tartan]

Mosquito-Man