Andor - Episode 10-12 - Episodes Discussion

[alpine wing]

If it really was the intent, they would of added something written or spoken to reinforce it. The absence of that would then suggest it was strictly budget.

Something fans or future writers tried to fill the gaps in for later. But it defnitely isn't the orignal intent.

[spare dragon]

Nah, that doesn't follow at all. Youre arguing against nuance, against a diffenece between what characters say and how they behave. Literally against being interesting LOL

[alpine wing]

So you're claiming that Daleks are canonicaly made out of toilet plungers and whisks?

[dusky basin]

Something something “willing suspension of disbelief” something something

[alpine wing]

More that you seem to be ignoring vey obvious IRL factors. Seemingly with the point of being contrarion.

[turbid dagger]

Part of the problem is that unless you're deliberately foregrounding the presence of female military officers, it's remarkably to overlook them and just go with the standard "we need a bunch of military types" casting call which back in the US in the 70s us going to be for a bunch of (white) dudes with short hair

[spare dragon]

Incorporating them is the opposite of ignoring them LOL

[dusky basin]

Same thing for lightsaber forms. Nobody thought about the “lore” behind sumdin jin or teras kasi whats-it. The choreography director just told the actors to do things that looked cool on camera and could convey certain things via the film medium.

[alpine wing]

Yea, if the Empire is sexist or not I'd probably base on how much effort modern Star Wars projects put in representing Imperial Women.

Unlike Aliens, having more female characters isn't barred by budget.

[dusky basin]

It’s always been “improvised lore,” whatever that’s supposed to mean.

[spare dragon]

Dim Sum form

[turbid dagger]

The people at WEG writing the RPG looked at the films and said "this tiny sample population shall be representative of the entire Empire"

I can see why they did. Not particularly imaginative. But logical.

[spare dragon]

The thing is, they're looking at art designed to represent a greater truth, so that's an entirely valid way to approach the movies.

[dusky basin]

Easier to paint the bad guys as bad guys if they’re xenophobic and sexist I guess.

[spare dragon]

They're not looking at real world footage capturing a limited view

[alpine wing]

Yea but we have later works explitically adding lore to flesh out the forms. I haven't ran across any case of that for Imperial Racism though.

Also its a different point from what Stan is saying. Stan seems to be suggesting that it was original intent by Lucas. Not something that got revisited and fleshed out later.

[turbid dagger]

The RPG becomes the defacto writers bible for the expanded universe and thus the misogynist humancentric Empire solidifies into fact

[maiden gale]

just in case slaughtering millions/billions of civilians with a planet exploder ball wasnt quite radicalising enough, they also hate women

[spare dragon]

Well, there's a certain chicken and egg thing going on here

[dusky basin]

Statistics vs a tragedy I guess

[unique sluice]

Dim Sum Deze Nuttz is the form i used to defeat many sith

[turbid dagger]

As I said it's logical but lazy leading to that scene in Kenobi where the rubber alien driving the truck is heavy handedly "one of the good ones" in allegory for the growing sense of racism in the US

[alpine wing]

Like, using common sense.

The Empire is directly inspired by Fascism. Which we know is sexist and racist. It's safe to assume the Empire is too. I'm just surprised we got nothing (or at least I've seen nothing) addressing that after 50 years of the franchise existing.

Also the original comment I made that prompted this conversation was questioning it within a different setting where Humanity is likely a minority population, given how many alien species exists. The tactics don't make as much sense considering.

[spare dragon]

Didn't the alien sell them out to the Imps?

[dusky basin]

Pretty plainly yeah.

Lied to Obi Wan the approached the checkpoint telling them to “look into them”

[spare dragon]

Dumb literalism is not the same as ascribing intent to the decisions made about how to convey the truth of the world you're designing.

[spare dragon]

Why nothing? Imperial sexism and racism have been topics in the EU

[alpine wing]

Then again (CW: IRL Politics) ||If you tally up all the minorites that IRL fascists pick on, suddenly its the majority of humanity they hate.||

So maybe one could argue its the same with Aliens of ||pitting one against the other||.

But no reference to it in 50 years still baffles me.

[spare dragon]

Whatshername, the one female imperial admiral, Daala?

Her story involves Imp sexist attitudes quite directly, iirc

[dusky basin]

Pretty much only made flag officer because she was Tarkin’s mistress too, iirc.

[spare dragon]

Never mind the OT doubling down on all of this with the rebel leadership vs imp leadership makeup

[alpine wing]

Then why are you doing dumb literalism? You're taking budget limits and writing head-canon conclusions out of them.

Why nothing? Imperial sexism and racism have been topics in the EU

Cite them then.
Cause so far the only argument made has been head canons. And as I've said, I haven't seen any cases. So if I'm missing them, please point them out.

[alpine wing]

That post ninja'd me.
That is a good example.

[turbid dagger]

We've had plenty of Imperial misogynistic humanocentrism. It's one of the things that allowed Admirals Thrawn and Dahla(?) to stand out from the rank and file as antagonists

[turbid dagger]

I think so. It some respects getting grassed out by an alien to the imps has a certain "betrayed by one of your own" feel, but aliens have been snitching since the first movie

[spare dragon]

No, I'm coming to different conclusions about the intent of these decisions, not ignoring them

[spare dragon]

Then I dont see what you mean with "one of the good ones"

[turbid dagger]

DEI hire 🙄

[dusky basin]

I think the alien was one of "the good ones" to the Empire, since they were willing to act against their own interests by betraying even more marginalized groups.

I may be mistaken though

[turbid dagger]

He's literally refered to in that fashion by the Imps he gives a lift to.

[alpine wing]

Not sure who Dahla is.

With Thrawn I thought it was more from how isolated the Chiss are. As well as his insane talent.

But noted, can't ignore that fact that those facts withstanding, he is one of the only (if not the only) alien Imperial General.

[turbid dagger]

It was his insane talent that earned him a flag rank in a military famously unlikely to have ever recruited him in the first place.

[alpine wing]

🤔

Something has dawned on me

[turbid dagger]

A rypical case of a minority havingbto be vastly superior in order to even be on the same playing field as a bunch of nepo hires

[alpine wing]

I'm asking for more logic and rationale from fictional fascists than I am from IRL fascists.

The Empire being racist can be explained as easily as other themes Andor has tackled. That the Empire seeks to crush others and enforce an unnatural world state.

[alpine wing]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-true-kramer-seinfeld-gif-6564373007119861775

Like, Andor hasn't tackled Imperial Racism really. But it's tackled other themes that rhyme and often come parralel with it.

[turbid dagger]

Really? You don't think setting Dedra up as this girlboss against a whole room of white guys before reminding us she's just as much of a villain and shitstain isn't addressing the issue?

[alpine wing]

Well, first half of S1.
They were still human but those natives the Empire oppressed played on the same themes.

Ghorum honestly did as well now that I think about it.

[alpine wing]

I'm not sure which bit this is in response to?

But also those last few posts were directly looking at Imperial Racism.

Dedra would be a case of Sexism, which yea I see that.

[spare dragon]

Or the Imp leader on Ahldani talking about how much the locals disgust him?

Or the corpo cops that harass Cassian in the first ep being racist at,him?

[alpine wing]

Literally just addressed that two posts up

At Stan in specific, you come off as being Antagonistic for the sake of it. Right from the start of the conversation too, it didn't even boil into it.

This isn't even the first time we've conversed where this has been a pattern. I'm thinking it's best to just stop engaging with you considering.

[spare dragon]

Ghorman is a bunch of almost exclusively white people being chosen as suitable for being portrayed as super arrogant about their homeland and culture. For that to work, the galaxy's attitudes need to have a certain form.

[spare dragon]

You do you. What you frame as antagonism I would call not going along with what you're saying.

[dusky basin]

Okay, well you can stop engaging with Stan at any time... but from observing the conversation, he only appeared to engage in good faith with your point. He just disagreed.

[alpine wing]

Might be a mismatch of tone being interpreted via text. That could very well be what's happening 🤔

[fathom geyser]

evil (awesome lasers and explosions) versus evil (derogatory)

[alpine wing]

Apologizes if it is just a matter of me misreading tone.

[karmic mauve]

Hmmm.

[alpine wing]

In regards to the main topic, I'm catching another hole in how I approached the topic.

Budgeting means a lack of aliens, which also means a lack of chances to directly explore such themes.

But, when taking a step or two back and just looking at general themes. You can find several examples in Andor alone. Before even looking elsewhere (like Thrawn).

So yeah, I'm content with that being evidence for the case of Canon Imperial Racism. Still unsure if it was Georges original intent opposed to something fleshed out later or not though.

The Sexism themes I also see. My focus (and question/doubt) was on the ImperialXAlien dynamic. But I do see the patterns there too. I wasn't trying to really argue the Sexism though. Even accounting for the nonwoke era of the OT, the later Star Wars content alone paints a picture.

[spare dragon]

The OT shows aliens among the rebel leadership and troops.

The Empire? All human, all male, not one alien.

Makes ya think

[turbid dagger]

According to interviews, casting the Ghormans with almost exclusively Gaelic actors was intended to invoke the sort of racial homogenity that would make them a target. Which only really works if your oppressors are a more pluralistic mix, but the vast majority of actors in the series are white, which is what made Cinta's fridging so galling

[spare dragon]

It's not just that aliens cost extra money, it's where that money goes

[turbid dagger]

It took 3 movies for that to happen

[spare dragon]

No, I think that's a misread. They can easily come off as Those Types because attitudes about white people being Those Types already exist

[turbid dagger]

Nope, it was explicitly stated

[spare dragon]

Which is another way of saying it happened 😬

[spare dragon]

Link, please?

Not how I remember that

[turbid dagger]

Lends credence to the idea that had the $$$ been there from the beginning it might have been a more ethnically pluralistic empire than the space KKK wr ended up making them.

[alpine wing]

Eh, it could be a case like was with the Italians or Irish.

I also wager hollywood feared making Ghorrans population a non-white ethnicity would've been seen badly.

(Then again, Hollywood is also clueless and tasteless enough to try just that. So who knows?)

[spare dragon]

Well no, because RotJ shows a mixed rebellion and an all human empire

[turbid dagger]

He could have made the Ghormans any human ethnicity but i don't think it would have been deemed acceptible to show any existing realworld nonwhite minority getting slaughtered that way.

[spare dragon]

The show has real world minorty characters being killed and racially oppressed. Don't think it's a matter of fear

[alpine wing]

Andors Cast is still majority white

A non-white minority being slaughtered by contrast hits different compared to a show where the cast is more diverse

[spare dragon]

Yeah. The cast includes a lot of Imps and people who operate in Imp spaces

[alpine wing]

Rebels too though

[spare dragon]

What was the make-up of the group that was executed, the one young Keyla stayed to watch?

[spare dragon]

Yes, rebels like Cassian, and Wilmon, and Cinta

None of which suffer negative attention for their ethnicity or sexual orientations or whatnot from the rebels

[turbid dagger]

By the time RotJ rocks around, you've got almost a decade of background radiation of the assumed biases of the empire crystalising into what we're familiar with. Had the resources been available at the beginning I think we could have seen a more diverse empire where every species is producing Imperials looking to do over the galaxy at large which I think is an even more terrifying and totalitarian idea that one lot conquering everyone else because it further reduces the assumoption that non humans are inherently against the Empire

[spare dragon]

Nah, the Empire was all about the evil of homogeneity from the start

[turbid dagger]

It's basically the Stazi

[spare dragon]

The Stasi, that famously inclusive agency?

[alpine wing]

Yeah, that's why I'm skeptical as to it being Georges intent.

Though also that theme of a multidiverse totaltarian empire is a bit too modern a concept I think for people in the 70s to have thought seriously about.

[spare dragon]

The Empire is not representing communists, come on

[karmic mauve]

LOL

[spare dragon]

Figured that would get you 😁

[karmic mauve]

It's too much, Stan.

[turbid dagger]

In that you had to assume the possibility that ANYONE in your life including your family were snitching on you, yes

[karmic mauve]

You know that predates the Stasi in a little thing I think they call Nazi Germany.

[maiden gale]

Never heard of it

[karmic mauve]

Unironically, the extent of the domestic Nazi police state is often skipped over when you learn about WW2.

At least in the US.

[copper parcel]

Whatever the original intent, Fascist governments pick on minorities to give the population something to hate. Hitler with the Jews comes to mind.
Humans are by far the most prevalent species in the core and mid rim worlds so it makes sense that picking on aliens would be a major plank of their oppression.
Palpatine destroyed the power of many of the alien corporations such as the banking clan and the Trade Federation.
So racism is a given. Sexism. That was rampant in the 70s. Women weren’t equals, they couldn’t easily get a credit card in their own name in the US. Write what you know. George did.

[dusky basin]

Where do you think the Nazis got their inspiration from?

[spare dragon]

One day I'll day from reading something here, my face frozen in a rictus grin, like a victim of Joker gas

[karmic mauve]

I mean we don't learn about it as much in the US. We learn about the war and the Holocaust and all that, but never about the police state. That's usually reserved for the "Cold War" part of the lesson. But all the things we learn about the government spying and keeping their own people in line with the Stasi and KGB were just as bad and worse in Nazi Germany.

[turbid dagger]

You know I'm suddenly reminded of the advert for the Star Wars theme hotel where it's the mother and daughter who happily simp for the 1st Order...

[karmic mauve]

Neighbors spying on neighbors, kids spying on parents, using fear to keep people in line more organically.

[alpine wing]

What I don't get is the Human Majority bit.

Like there's no way that they could outnumber all the other aliens combined unless if some giant genocide had happened long before the Empire.

That or humans just popped up on a lot of planets for some reason

[dusky basin]

Didn't they get Chewbacca arrested in that advert?

[turbid dagger]

Humans fuck like rabbits?

[dusky basin]

"It ain't that kind of movie kid"

[alpine wing]

Just hoe slow do the Aliens breed?

[turbid dagger]

Not fast enough clearly

[sullen niche]

Even if it isn’t a supermajority wherein the human species dominates the galaxy, by the time of the republic the mass colonization of worlds with human representation would likely give an overrepresentation in the republic which would lead to a social/cultural domination which could be manipulated by say a nationalist superstate into being a species superiority

Ignoring the literal constraints of the OT

[alpine wing]

So Colonialism?

Basically how the British conquered so many people

[karmic mauve]

I'm pretty sure humans are actually the Galactic majority per the lore. But even if they were not, they just have to be the majority in power.

[spare dragon]

There's plenty of ways to explain human majority, yeah. Colonization efforts, wealth disparities, etc

[spare dragon]

Are there any aliens who have more than one senator, I wonder? Not some part time arrangement but how there's Alderaan and Chandrilla in the senate, both clearly human ruled at least

But for aliens it's THE alien world, not AN alien world, you know?

[karmic mauve]

I can't think of any. Save for a few, most non-human races only govern one planet or system.

[spare dragon]

The senator from Rodia, vs the Rodian senator from planet whatever, and the Rodian senator from the other planet

[dusky basin]

I can think of just the Gran and the Bothans which have multiple 'homeworlds' and colonies.

[sullen niche]

Well, we have to assume there’s a lot we don’t know. Because it’s implied almost all hyperspace tech (if I remember right) was reverse engineered from Rakatan tech millennia ago by corellians and a few others. It’s just as likely that there were civilizations that were essentially sent back to the Stone Age or suffered complete cultural collapse when the Rakatan were in supremacy and humans just happened to be seeded on more worlds where they successfully reverse engineered technology ‘faster’ than others and so when the republic founded even if there were systems held by other majorities the majority of systems were human oriented.

[karmic mauve]

Hutt Space.

[alpine wing]

Many Bothans died to gain those seats

[dusky basin]

Hutts don't count because they're not people

[karmic mauve]

True.

[sullen niche]

Plus, we’ve seen the response to a human majority in the trade federation, techno union and other collective supercorporate entities that had enough power for representation in the senate…even if they were manipulated into power by the Sith

[turbid dagger]

The duro were at one time supposed to have pioneered hyperdrive tech. Which is the Doylist reason they resemble Roswell style aliens, allegedly

[alpine wing]

That's a good point 🤔

A technological lead would definitely contribute

[karmic mauve]

I don't think they are the only ones, at least in Canon.

[alpine wing]

Duros are also related to Nemodians, who control the Trade Federation

[sullen niche]

Hell we know for certain that coruscant had two native races: the Taung, the predecessors to the mandalorian culture…and humans, who pushed them off the planet

At least in legends

[alpine wing]

Were humans the Rakatans pet favourite or something? Just got spread to a ton of worlds before the Rakatans downfall?

[turbid dagger]

Nemodians are a near-Duros species. Very few species apart from humans have ever been described as having "near" cousin species

[sullen niche]

Continuing from legends, and quoting the wiki here:

“Although the Rakata did not reveal the secret of their technologies to the slaves, over time, they did discover the secret of the hyperdrive and many other technologies.[7] The Gossams and Devaronians created a tumble hyperdrive even before the fall of the Infinite Empire, while Coruscanti traveled without a hyperdrive at all, sending colonial sleeper ships across the Core Worlds. In turn, Corellians and Duros independently reverse-engineered hyperspace cannons from the Rakatan hyperdrive, but it was the development of the modern hyperdrive by Corellian scientists around 25,000 BBY that opened up the galaxy to interstellar trade and led to the formation of the Galactic Republic. The latter, representing an amalgamation of various emerging civilizations, also combined developments based on Rakata technologies.[5]”

So yes, Tl;Dr Rakatan’s probably did a whole expand and collapse across the galaxy and the various species reverse engineered or made their own non-force based hyperdrives or just did sleeper ships and mass colonized

Humans won the hyperspace race in the absence of any other dominating superpower and filled the vacuum literally

Though I have to admit this has segued far from Andor

[alpine wing]

Ah, good catch

[alpine wing]

True 😅

I want more shows like Andor 😩

[spare dragon]

Do the worlds have individual senate seats?

Sorry, I'm at work on my phone and looking this stuff up is a hassle

[sullen niche]

It says they represent their homeworld, at least on the wiki.

[dusky basin]

I think both Gran worlds were, yeah, with Malastare being colonzied and represented by Gran despite the Dug being the indigenous species. I was mostly brining it up as an example to support your earlier point in that they were just so rare.

[copper parcel]

Not all worlds do. Sometimes it’s the sector.

Who knows here though.

[spare dragon]

Yeah, my main point is that in Senate scenes you see multiple human senators but only one alien senator per species, at least when they're discernable on screen

Sector, planet, etc doesn't really factor into this

[unique sluice]

take it to #star-wars-general nerds smhmhmh
-# ||/s in case the "smhmhmh" wasnt enough||

[spare dragon]

It's just that typical scifi thing where humans have multiple cultures but aliens have one, generally

[spare dragon]

Interrupting our fake senate talk, smh

How crude

[dusky basin]

Crab is right though; doing what I should have done quite a while ago.

[spare dragon]

Okay, let's focus more on the show

Cassian deciding to keep the door open during the extraction scene

Only decision to make? Bad choice?

Closing it would have meant the Imps could just out-wait them, I guess

[turbid dagger]

Closing it means no grenade detonating in their face

Honestly given they had the Uwing I was expecting them just to shoot out the window and board through the side door with mighty leaps. But K2 extracting them was much more satisfying.

No one reporting on the Uwing being landed on their roof nor the Imperials even spotting such an obvious getaway vehicle when they're moving to arrest a dangerous rebel who shot up a security detail on her own was hilarious.

[spare dragon]

Yeah, that's the obvious advantage. But without eating the grenade they have no exit route.

[weak ivy]

Yeah, considering the U-Wing is apparently even in its "civilian" form mostly marketed to PMCs...

[spare dragon]

I figure that's covered by the general overworked and gridlocked state of Imp security

[turbid dagger]

I wasn't even thinking about orbital security and flightpath monitoring, just the failure of basic visual scanning

[weak ivy]

Interesting that Luthen's safe house would entirely rely on just not being found rather than having at least a second exit.

And some surveillance that would allow them to spot the imperials when they're not already pointing guns at you.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, I would have thought a secret exit into another apartment would have been basic procedure. But I guess mundanity works

[spare dragon]

Surveillance also increases the odds of being spotted

And I could see there being laws to prevent civilians having security cameras directed at public spaces. Which would mean that security invites scrutiny.

[spare dragon]

It's a valid concern, I'm not dismissing it, but it's baked into SW that surveillance and security just isn't as prevalent as in the real world. Starts with the Death Star rescue and never changes LOL

The hospital was one of the most camera'd-up places in all of SW

Though you can spin that into commentary, too. Security theater by the state vs total surveillance at the work place

[turbid dagger]

What's also funny is we're so used to modern techno thrillers having people pull the battery from their phones to avoid tracking nd that's how the Imps track the safehouse

[turbid dagger]

The Uwing lands somewhere comparatively discrete while the shuttle just drops next to the front door with no idea whether or not they're landing in front of their quarry's living room window and giving her time to escape while they dick around with their trace, which itself is a fantastic display of tradecraft.

It's a rollercoaster between talent and incompetency

[spare dragon]

We call that The Dedra

[weak ivy]

That reminds me - I just rewatched her interrogation and she was this close to saying "I was a good deputy inspector!"

[turbid dagger]

The Finger of Krennic says otherwise

[karmic mauve]

I will watch Andor now.

[spare dragon]

Too late, it's already gone from the zeitgeist

[karmic mauve]

Well shit.

[maiden gale]

the content has been consumed

now we scream for more slop

waiter, another spoonfull of live action clone wars characters please

no dont spend too much money on the cgi

[lapis talon]

https://x.com/rmbee/status/1923301483514073339?s=46&t=7z-oR-agb5W7ShCHRSurYQ

Robert Meyer Burnett, Viceroy of Verisimilitude (@RMBee) on X

ANDOR rocked the THX-1138 reference...

X · May 16, 2025, 8:56 AM

[rapid folio]

still can't believe this wasn't that far from the truth

[dusky basin]

Bad OPSEC will get you every time

[fathom geyser]

Alderaan PC Small Group

[sharp axle]

https://x.com/sw_holocron/status/1923496723160367376?s=46&t=_KmYXwf49NxLPyKcfXKsRg

Star Wars Holocron (@sw_holocron) on X

ANDOR creator Tony Gilroy explains why Cassian’s sister is never revealed in the show

“People wanted to know if we’re going to resolve the sister. And the sister, in the beginning, is so much more interesting to me as a deficit. She’s much more valuable to me for Cassian as an

X · May 16, 2025, 9:52 PM

[turbid dagger]

Should have been a brother. Exact same everything else, just a brother instead of the tired old sister tropes

[spare dragon]

Nah, that wouldn't have played so interestingly into some of Cassian's behavior with and around women. Losing birth mom AND sister made him pleasantly weird in that regard.

[fathom geyser]

He recognizes and respects girl power from a young age

[spare dragon]

Yes, but also: remember his mom saying "your women" in a tone that tells you all about his bad habits

[short totem]

Moms dont understand lol

[stuck umbra]

Oooh I hadn't realized that Perrin's new squeeze was Sculdun's wife. That would be very complicated for the kids...

[spare dragon]

In that it would put everyone's life in danger

[stuck umbra]

Loved the catch up at the end though. Dedra got herself Narkina'd which is satisfying. Perrin's got a new honey, he never really had a stomach for politics interfering with his partying anyway. Can't believe nobody's mentioned the baby bomb.

Oh and how satisfying was K2 using ISB Supervisor as a shield and his corpse getting blasted like eight times by his own guys

[spare dragon]

Dedra's fate in particular is a bit of an empathy test for the audience.

She's behaved monstrously evil, and gets put in the same kind of situation she put others in.

[stuck umbra]

Yeah of course there's very thick irony in that

[spare dragon]

Feels good in the moment, but if the prison is such a terrible place, she shouldn't be there, either.

It's a bit more interesting than Vader immediately being forgiven by the magic of the cosmos

[stuck umbra]

Not wrong but she might survive long enough for the Rebels to win, perhaps

[dusky basin]

Just depends how many records/witnesses are around to remember the hand she played in Ghorman.

[stuck umbra]

Which would be... Interesting. "We're setting you free."

"Uhhh, what?"

"Yup. Rebels won. Emperor is gone. You're free."

[spare dragon]

Hm. Post-RotJ SWRPG game, with the PCs all being prisoners who get recruited by the ultra-new government.

[stuck umbra]

Her brain explodes from cognitive dissonance overload

[spare dragon]

She'd be all "the galaxy will sink into chaos because of your decision" and then go spread chaos

[stuck umbra]

Plot twist!

Partagaz topping himself was an interesting choice, Andor continued to push the envelope a bit for Disney. Though maybe at some point it will get sanitized for kids and we'll be in here talking about how Lio Shot First

[spare dragon]

Disney is fine with harsh stuff, they just don't want to let it fall back on the main brand

Depending on which territory you're in, D+ has all kinds of horror and crime shows/movies, too

Just categorized under a sub-brand

[stuck umbra]

Yeah I ignore those 😜

"Little Child of Cassian" Lego Star Wars game dropping in 3... 2...

The Adventures of Little Child of Cassian and B2

[feral basalt]

Yeah, if you don't think Disney doesn't allow brutal stuff, you should watch Daredevil born again, there is some pretty graphic scenes in it.

[stuck umbra]

Oh but the troopers weren't executing civilians, they were attacking a bunker or something amirite? 😜

[feral basalt]

I am not really sure how that has anything to do with what I just posted?

[stuck umbra]

It's tenuous but I think it's funny anyway 😜

[maiden gale]

no empathy for dedra

deserved

[dusky basin]

I have some empathy for both Dedra and Syril, if only because once you know how they were brought up, you kinda realize they never had a chance. But at the end of the day, they're both still responsible for their actions.

[feral basalt]

They both only wanted to uphold order.

At least Dedra will probably be freed few years later when the Empire collapses and new Republic takes over.

[spare dragon]

They do not deserve empathy. The point is that places such as that prison shouldn't exist in the first place, not that we should weigh who deserves to be sent there and who doesn't.

[feral basalt]

There is also a bit of symmetry there, as she ended back in the Imperial Kinderblock where she grew up in.

[maiden gale]

the time traveling imperial kinderblock

[spare dragon]

it was actually a flashback to her childhood, played by the adult actress

[maiden gale]

dedra exists in a state of quantum superposition

[spare dragon]

is the superposition this one:

[maiden gale]

which explains how she was there as a child and when she was like 30 at the same time

[spare dragon]

https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/24090021/Andor-Syril-Bed.png

[maiden gale]

yes

this scene is actually subtle foreshadowing to the fact syril fucking dies

[feral basalt]

Lonnie's death was just so pointless though. As it turned out from how shocked Partagaz was from hearing he was dead that the ISB actually had no idea he was a traitor, unlike what he thought.

[maiden gale]

paranoia all around

[spare dragon]

Had he lived, they would have found out, if only because he stashed away his wife and kid.

[maiden gale]

luthen blasting him away probably inadvertently saved them

[rapid folio]

doesn't that scene happen the same day as Krennic questioning Dedra?

[feral basalt]

Maybe, but it's not like he really knew anything more about the Rebellion than what the imps had already found out.

[spare dragon]

Plus all that accessing Dedra's files

[rapid folio]

Luthen had given up the Yavin location to him

[feral basalt]

No it was before Dedra was even arrested.

[spare dragon]

He knew who Luthen was. Luthen doesn't know if the Imps have his face.

And, more to the point, Keyla's face.

[feral basalt]

Lonnie had literally told him the ISB were about to raid him.

[spare dragon]

Luthen wasn't gonna risk her life

[maiden gale]

lonni also made the mistake of losing his composure to luthen, famously ruthless ends justify the means type, basically telling him 'oh yeah btw im going to be a target and a liability forever now please drag me around with you and hide me'

[spare dragon]

He was one of the most heroic dudes in the whole show, and the thanks he got was a blaster bolt

[maiden gale]

its so unfortunate

[rapid folio]

i thought the scene where they take her out of the hospital happened before Partagaz is informed about Lonni's death

[spare dragon]

And shortly later, the rebellion leaders squabble about whether Cas will be allowed to go save Luthen. Lonnie does never even come up, nobody there knows about him.

[lyric pumice]

This

[spare dragon]

The real story is a completely different one than the rebellion's self-portrayal.

[lyric pumice]

The prison arc would be ruined so much by a “so what are you in for?” scene as it would essentially defang the entire arc

Cause that’s still a fucking human rights violation

[feral basalt]

It is actually a miracle the Rebellion worked so well as it did taking in that almost all of its leaders are politicians.

[spare dragon]

every leader is a politician 🙂

just in different arenas

[feral basalt]

I am talking about all those pompous senators in their fancy dresses making strategic military decisions.

[lyric pumice]

Either by “ermmmm the Empire acktually had some pretty bad folks in there” or “at least our prison system works”

[spare dragon]

yeah, the arc is great in that its answer to anyone debating whether the prison would be justifiable for the worst people is a cheerful "fuck you"

[spare dragon]

dunno how a dress disqualifies you from thinking strategically

you gotta have the figureheads, the serious people who can represent the rebellion when it's time to do diplomacy and shit

and we see how quickly and completely Mon left all the parties and dresses behind

[feral basalt]

You are completely missing the point... they are not qualified for that kind of stuff since they are trained in making grand speeches in front of the public, not making difficult decisions about knowing sendingly people to their deaths for the larger goal.

[spare dragon]

I am not missing the point LOL, but sure.

[lyric pumice]

Reposting this

[spare dragon]

Senators have been making military decisions, though.

And we know pretty well that they're qualified, what with the rebellion winning.

[feral basalt]

Like only reason the rebellion didn't get completely annihilated by the Death Star was Cassian directly disobeying their orders, TWICE, in Rogue One. First by not killing Galen Urso, and then by taking his squad to Scariff to go get the plans.

[spare dragon]

The order to kill Galen wasn't from the entire leadership, was it?

[subtle cosmos]

Yeah that was from Draven specifically, one of the non-politicians.

[feral basalt]

Draven gave the order, but we were never shown whether or not the others had approved it.

[subtle cosmos]

Not that some of the politicians instincts don't get in the way sometimes, but that's not something you can pin on them.

[spare dragon]

And they're needed, too, for the alliance building.

[subtle cosmos]

Yeah. At the end of Rogue One it is mostly the politicians being wrong and the military and spy people go do the work anyway, but there are other times when they're vital.

[spare dragon]

The spy shit is more early rebellion, while the more public-facing stuff is during the OT.

[subtle cosmos]

Stuff like Mon's speech in the senate definitely had impacts down the line, it's just harder to measure.

[spare dragon]

Been a while, but IIRC Mon and Bail are supporting Cassian and Jyn, too

[lyric pumice]

the optics game becomes critical when you're a tangible force that has, at least by the battle of Yavin, won a significant victory

[spare dragon]

So one can't say "oh the politicians are getting it wrong"

[spare dragon]

gotta look presentable for the public and for potential allies

[subtle cosmos]

They're more waffly than the others. Mon is the one who says they can't do it without the full support of the council, so it sounds like she'd have gone with it if the others wanted to.

[unique sluice]

lol
Lmao

Dedra is definitely committing suicide on the zappy floor

and i highly doubt the super-weapon-parts-production-gulags are remaining un-gassed when the Empire collapses
Higher ups are gonna want to cover their asses

[spare dragon]

All valid, but we also see that the prisons are understaffed and don't run smoothly

[turbid dagger]

Is it? I can't think of anyone commenting on it thinking of it as anything but a well deserved karma. One comment I've seen has released she's been deliberately given a grossly protracted death sentence -- arguably as was Lonni the moment Luthen got his claws into him but at least he had the fantasy of worthwhile purpose and escape.

[turbid dagger]

Hell consider Bambi or The Fox & The Hound back in the day had sone comparatively nasty stuff

[turbid dagger]

Wrong. He spent 3 hours using Dedra's access codes to find out everything she knew about the Death Star, something the ISB discovered fairly quickly and the whole reason he wanted out. That sort of illegal system access is not something you walk back.

[subtle cosmos]

Yeah he makes it very clear they're going to know and then Krennic talks about it when interrogating Dedra, as predicted they found out fairly quickly.

[feral basalt]

I feel like they only found it out because they were doing a focused investigation on Dedra after arresting her.

[subtle cosmos]

That might have changed timelines, but there's no reason to think he was wrong about being burned.

Probably Dedra would have been the one to notice otherwise.

[turbid dagger]

The way in which it was given clearly implies not officially sanctioned.

Not surprising given his stance of "Who knows what he's working on. Kill him instead of extracting him so we can never find out."

[sharp axle]

I missed discourse

[lyric pumice]

I’d generally disagree, you don’t keep a moon sized space station top secret for two decades without some crazy Opsec. It’s sad to say, but Lonni was a dead man the minute he opened those files

[spare dragon]

You don't see how thinking of this fate as well-deserved is a bit of a failure to consider all people worthy of not being treated inhumanely?

[sand thunder]

I like this

[spare dragon]

the gun is love

[sand thunder]

Love Is a Gun

[stuck umbra]

Alas it will never be passed down to their bairn

[fathom geyser]

it blew up :(

[fathom geyser]

https://www.threads.com/@podwore/post/DJxx5gXugM8?xmt=AQF0pheCREvElzxh94LxRllUxbgyRuGiBWspFRnhYliYQg

[weak ivy]

Wasn't Vader's glove found in the EU?

[fathom geyser]

Because it was indestructible

[spare dragon]

Who says the gun isn't

[unique sluice]

memey ship name

USS Love Is A Gun steaming towards you to deliver disaster relief

[karmic mauve]

lol

[unique sluice]

Now I want pizza

[sand thunder]

He learned his lesson

[turbid dagger]

I was always under the impression he got... grievously... wounded in battle. Now it seems he's more likely blown himself up while trying to get high.

[stuck umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/andor-saw-gerrera-clarity-of-purpose-saw-clarity-of-purpose-gif-27089119

https://tenor.com/view/saw-gerrera-rogue-one-star-gif-19871138

...What's he really breathing out of the mask?

[lyric pumice]

hitting the Rhydo

I can only assume

[rapid folio]

He is the Rhydo

[spare dragon]

Listened to another interview with Tony Gilroy, and I found it kinda funny that the reason the show didn't spend more time on the development of the Yavin base is that Gilroy thought it too hard a sell that the base would have stayed secret, with how big it is in ANH, and how many people coming and going that implies. Just outright, let's not look too closely at that, or the whole edifice will collapse LOL

[lyric pumice]

-# I assume that's another reason (in addition to "he would mostly sit in the ship since it looks sus as hell for an Imperial Droid to be hanging out with non imperials") why K2 was only in the last arc, cause if he was around any longer, the show would have to broach the whole conundrum with SW Droids

[spare dragon]

also, money

he's an incredibly expensive character to have on screen

[lyric pumice]

yea

[fathom geyser]

Oh god Neel don’t get in the car

[subtle cosmos]

The one thing that could turn me against Cinta

[subtle cosmos]

Why does the Andor Cinematic Universe have several movies about the biological family of Bail's adopted daughter?

[stuck umbra]

rants quietly in a corner about how having slower hyperspace travel would solve this problem 😜

[weak ivy]

I don’t think it would - in the end, you just need one rebel from there to get captured and interrogated and it’s over.

[spare dragon]

Don't see how that has anything to do with this

[weak ivy]

I think he’ll be fine …

https://x.com/DadJabba/status/1923036533449220453

JABBA THE DAD / Card Collection Palece (@DadJabba) on X

アンドー シーズン2、本当に素晴らしい作品でしたね✨
ローグ・ワンに続き無駄なものは一切追加せず、エイリアン種族も少ない中で必要最低限の過去作キャラの起用と、人物描写をここまで深く描いて完璧にまとめるとは、本当にすごい✨✨
#Andor #AndorSeason...

X · May 15, 2025, 3:23 PM

(Ugh, hate linking to that site.)

[stuck umbra]

Longer search times make things easier to hide

[stuck umbra]

Yeah fair but I was thinking more about physical search and movement tracking rather than social hacking

[spare dragon]

This is a matter of people, not sending ships to world after world.

[stuck umbra]

I guess but if all the rebels going to the secret rebel base were all announcing to the galaxy, "hey everybody I'm a rebel and I'm going to the new secret rebel base" then they've got deeper problems

So I'm trying to give them a little credit here

Just kind of assuming it wouldn't be super easy to figure out who to interrogate

Otherwise yeah, by all means, just capture one and Gorst them (RIP Dr Gorst)

[weak ivy]

It's not super easy, but then again, "capture and interrogate anyone who attacks an imperial base and shows a minimum degree of competence" isn't too hard either.

[turbid dagger]

You mean despite all appearances to the contrary Andor wasn't the only one defying the physical and telecommunications lockdown on Yavin?

[stuck umbra]

Yeah seemed like it was locked down pretty hard

[turbid dagger]

Not to mention the simplest approach for physical security is not tell people the name or location of the planet who don't need it. Keep the astrogation locked to astromechs

If Leia hadn't taken the Falcon directly to Yavin the base would never have been under threat by the DS so soon -- Having Tantive IV always docking with a carrier ship when Bail needed to come and go would make its presence at and escape from Scarrif make sense

[spare dragon]

The lockdown, which was only in place years into the base's existence, doesn't solve the issue.

Even if all other rebels behave entirety according to protocol, the risk remains.

[turbid dagger]

The lockdown was evidently in (soft) effect during the Mothma extraction arc

The risk of infiltration or revelation is always going to be in effect. You just have to remember Saw ganking the apy in arc #2

[weak ivy]

Yeah, that would probably be the only reasonable choice. Unfortunately, the name "Yavin" gets used pretty commonly.

[spare dragon]

Cassian can come and go without consequence at that time, IIRC

[weak ivy]

(And of course, "It's a foresty moon rotating around a gas giant" is something you can't really hide from the people living there and it would already massively shrink the Empire's search radius.)

[spare dragon]

End of the day, Andor is built on a foundation of pulp adventure fiction, not serious spy drama. As Gilroy says, you can't look too closely at a lot of this stuff.

[turbid dagger]

Vel literally pointed out that he was goin to get frozen out of the command heirarchy because he bucked that authorisation

[spare dragon]

Yeah, that's a nothing consequence compared to the risk his behavior poses to everyone

[turbid dagger]

We've already established that anyone on the Rebel side demonstrating any sort of actual opsec gets cast as an extremist. But honestly if they didn't basically trust him to know what he was doing Drahvin probably would just have shot him.

[mortal dust]

Allow me to make the following Andor S2 comment:

||Luthenasia||

[fathom geyser]

https://youtu.be/BOWWWbsZwTk?si=t3Viypt02v-RD8sD

"KALKITE. Synthetic KALKITE. KALKITE alternatives!"
🗣️ 🔥

[sharp axle]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/GrZVnmcWIAAukeG.gif

[stoic tulip]

I wonder if Andor was force sensitive. Growing up on planet orphan in the final stages of the clone wars I imagine the jedi never had a chance to get to him. He doesn't move things with his mind or do crazy acrobatics.

But

He is amazingly lucky, a great pilot, crack shot and convincing speaker. Moreso than most

[spare dragon]

He's also really unlucky sometimes.

And we see that he got better at this stuff over time, too. It doesn't feel magical.

[rapid folio]

he's just a high XP character with several specs

[fathom geyser]

The Force works through him but he isn't Force-sensitive imo

[turbid dagger]

This is the old "Han's really a force sensitive!" silliness

[feral basalt]

I much prefer it that not every main character is force sensitive.

[fathom geyser]

Really the Force works through everyone

[spare dragon]

"Force-users" are just that - they use it consciously, intentionally. But it's part of everyone and everything.

I've had some discussions about s2's Force healer not fitting the Andor vibe because the Force supposedly wasn't in s1, but to me that's a misunderstanding of what the Force is.

Also, the president of the galaxy is an evil wizard.

[feral basalt]

We also never really got any confirmation that she was actually using the force and not just like a believer in the force like Chirrut.

[spare dragon]

Not in the sense that we see her float an object, but the way the scene is presented and the greater context in which it happens suggests that she's on the level.

[turbid dagger]

I think it's a little more than just belief that keeps Chirrut alive during the movie until his usefulness is expended

[feral basalt]

Yeah, some plot armor was also involved. 🤣

[spare dragon]

What does that even mean. The setting and the character actions clearly show why it played out the way it did.

[turbid dagger]

It could be argued that the Force wants the abomination that is the kyber-guzzling Death Star and its kin destroyed: Chirrut is the only one who is going to be able to domino the comms switch, so the Force has a vested interest in steering events to keep him alive until he can do that. He's not able to "use" the Force, but he is attuned to it enough he can comprehend what it whispers to him to keep him alive the flow of it

[stuck umbra]

It's at least heavily implied that Chirrut has some force sensitivity. Not a lot, perhaps, and no training, but either way (force or otherwise) one has to invoke "magical blind man" so it makes sense in the context of the SW universe that he's force sensitive. Same with the healer, I think—heavily implied that she's the real deal, but again, with little skill and no training

[spare dragon]

With Chirrut, the distinction people are making is between actively using the Force, and just trusting in it.

The Force was clearly heavily involved in events there at his end, but he didn't shape or guide it the way a Jedi would.

[stuck umbra]

Right, maybe he just uses it to "see," like instinct. And maybe catch glimpses of the future. Which to me counts as "using" it

[feral basalt]

Seeing that the Chirrut spec in the rpg is not a force user spec, it's quite obvious he wasn't force sensitive.

[stuck umbra]

I don't know anything about that, I've just seen the movie man. But if that's true one still must invoke some flavor of "magical blind man" so 🤷 pick your favorite flavor I guess

[karmic mauve]

I mean I don't think it really matters what the RPG does. It's just an interpretation by the company who made it.

[spare dragon]

The RPG writers do not get access to secret information

[spare dragon]

I mean, the trope is there, Force or not

[stuck umbra]

Same with the force healer—"gee she did her thing and my thing healed" could be coincidence, or not

[feral basalt]

You don't need to be force sensitive to do martial arts.

[spare dragon]

Man you know that this isn't what people are saying

You know

[stuck umbra]

I mean, if a blind guy could identify the pendant I'm wearing, underneath my clothing, from half a block away, in a crowd... Yeah he'd better be able to do martial arts too cuz that dude's Zatoichi

Which would be cool as hell and I'd invite him drinking

[weak ivy]

yeah, I'm really not sure if there's any sensible interpretation where Chirrut is not Force-sensitive.

Andor's Force healer on the other hand works as maybe-magic-maybe-mundane for me. Maybe everything she says is true, she healed Andor and she can sense his destiny. Or maybe she just has a good intuition and her faith is sufficiently strong to serve as a placebo for those she treats.

[spare dragon]

She does say something like, sometimes it even works

Meaning there is no clear causality

[stuck umbra]

And the ambiguity is undoubtedly intentional, because the audience going "is she, or isn't she...?" is exactly what the characters are doing. And that becomes much less interesting once the question is answered definitively. Works much better as Schroedinger's Force Healer

[feral basalt]

Didn't Chirrut even straight up say in Rogue One that he isn't a Jedi?

[spare dragon]

Her being a fraud doesn't make sense for the emotional arc of the audience, IMO

in universe, there's ambiguity, but to us it's pretty damn clear what's going on.

[karmic mauve]

Don't need to be a Jedi to use the Force.

[stuck umbra]

Agree, which is why I think it's heavily implied that she's the real thing—even if what she can do is very limited

[spare dragon]

Yeah. Man, that small nod of camaraderie between her and Cassian as he walks into Rogue One, a year after first reacting so negatively to her, made me all verklempt.

The show does so much with every small role.

[weak ivy]

Fraud implies malice. She definitely believes in what she's doing, the question is whether her belief has a base in reality.

To which the answer might be: Does it matter?

[spare dragon]

Hell yeah it does.

[weak ivy]

How so? I would argue that Andor is a show about belief. She believes in the Force and her belief enables her to help people - whether via true Force healing or just by placebo is immaterial.

[spare dragon]

The show's about the cost of revolution, IMO. Belief doesn't do shit when a money box crushes you.
Assuming she doesn't do anything concrete, then all her belief enables her to do is mislead people with real illnesses or injuries to treat them as if they are better, when there hasn't been any positive change. And that's dangerous to her "patients".

Note I'm not saying that's what's happening here with her, I'm talking about an alternative scenario in which there's no Force healing.

[weak ivy]

Belief is what made you get into the situation where the money box crushes you and kept you yelling "Climb!" afterwards.

I certainly won't defend charlatans in a real life world with a functioning medical system. But on a rebel base with limited resources when actual medicine can't help you, even having the placebo effect might be a net benefit when it comes to stuff like managing chronic pain.

[spare dragon]

That's the cost of your belief in revolution

When the rebel operative flinches at the worst moment because the ailments they fought were healed act up, and the whole mission goes tits up, the cost of false hope is clear.

It prevents an accurate self assessment - and that's a critical skill to have for a bunch of spies and guerillas who have people depending on them in life or death situations.

[sand thunder]

Honestly, the force healer might be the closest they have to a therapist on base at times

[feral basalt]

I saw that healer (force or not) as more like a religious support, like a priest or something, than a doctor. She was giving people faith.

[turbid dagger]

Consider that even if you keep everything within the onscreen context of Andor and Rogue One, maybe spending a year or so around her predisposes Cassian's reaction to the two Guardians

And also consider that prior to both Death Star attacks, the leadership is invoking good fortune by saying "May the Force be with you"

Despite the best part of 2 decades, there's still a lot of people on that particular opiate

[spare dragon]

This is like calling health care an addiction

[turbid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/mad-max-water-gif-20405958

[weak ivy]

The torment nexus are getting stupider and stupider, don't they?

[turbid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-democracy-dies-gif-20192642

[high beacon]

People really should understand that, in the Star Wars galaxy, the Force is real. Destiny and fate is a cosmic force that ebbs abd flows through everyone.

The Rebel Alliance is one of the ways the Force is trying to right the scales. The Empire acts against destiny and the natural order as agents of the Dark side and the literal evil wizard emperor.

The Force isn't mentioned by name in Season 1 because no character has a reason to. But everything in Andor is because of the Force.

Cassian is somehow always where he needs to be to help others, even if he doesn't understand it. The Force Healer lady and Luthen both say something similar.

If we look at Star Wars as a whole, the Force is using Cassian as a vessel, and he keeps answering the call, every single time.

Not to say Cassian doesn't have free will, he does. But his will and the Force's will align on many occasions.

That's how I view it anyway.

[stuck umbra]

It's also kind of an archetype thing, which is similar to that of Han Solo in many ways: a fundamentally good (if imperfect) person, who starts off acting primarily in self-interest but has a tendency to follow their own path... And who is thrust into situations where they're kinda the only one who can do "the right thing," which they choose to do.

Whether one invokes destiny or "the hand of fate" or the Force or not, and it's certainly reasonable to do so, it's a classic Star Wars narrative that one sees repeatedly: seemingly "normal" (if exceptionally skilled) people thrust into abnormal situations who decide to step up.

[mortal dust]

https://youtu.be/Mt5z4IkD-qE?feature=shared

[karmic mauve]

lol

[stoic tulip]

Haha!

[stuck umbra]

Out of curiosity, because I haven't tracked it back, how did Nemik's manifesto make it out? I think Cassian kept a copy and then... I forget what happened

https://tenor.com/view/serenity-cant-stop-the-signal-mal-firefly-mr-universe-gif-14177613

[spare dragon]

I don't think we see more than that.

Cassian certainly appreciated its worth and might have handed it to someone else. Or Nemik might have handed out copies prior to the events of season 1.

[weak ivy]

I would assume Nemik had only the one version, considering it was still in manuscript phase, and Andor gave a copy to a propagandist to distribute. But we never saw it happen, because 3 episodes per year.

[turbid dagger]

I imagine he handed off a copy to Lucen or Vel

[unique sluice]

Yeah

[stuck umbra]

It should be filed under "current events" rather than "science fiction," it seems rather topical worldwide at the moment

[spare dragon]

Typical for SF. Lots of it is about the now in disguise.

[stuck umbra]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty clever how the original Star Trek managed to pull that off on '60s TV. Less of a surprise now but I definitely find Nemik's manifesto to nonetheless be well-written and topical

Bet the writers had a fun time with it

[turbid dagger]

The fight against totalitarianism and fascism is always topical

[spare dragon]

https://bsky.app/profile/lightspeedbear.bsky.social/post/3lqnb3vcps226

Patrick K (@lightspeedbear.bsky.social)

-# ↩ The Spaceshipper 🚀 (@thespaceshipper.com)
Does an #Andor Location Screentime fit in this thread? If so please enjoy...

Bluesky · Jun 2, 2025, 5:05 PM

[weak ivy]

...I really miss AMCA coverage. I just started listening to another podcast and in their treatment of ep 1, they explained how Mon seems to be so much more relaxed now compared to last season and apparently at peace with the wedding because she's smiling at her guests.

That blu-ray can't come fast enough.

[stuck umbra]

Surprised Narkina 5 is such a small number (5.8% in the prison complex). It seemed like a much bigger chunk. But then again so did Ferrix, though I guess 15% feels about right for Ferrix, maybe a bit low

[rapid folio]

I figured Narkina 5 would be bigger than Aldhani given that it got 4 episodes to Aldhani's 3, though I suppose a decent chunk of the first episode from that arc was spent on Niamos (but even with Niamos added, it would be less than Aldhani)

[stuck umbra]

I suppose a decent bit of the Aldhani episodes were spent on Coruscant, and a fair amount of the Narkina episodes were spent on "Where's Cassian Keef Cassian?"

[spare dragon]

Fun, happy times. Just Mon & Luthen discussing the assassination of her childhood friend.

[spare dragon]

Yeah, had the same thought. But it's just the scenes set in the prison, not the length of the arc.

The episodes featured other stories & locations, too.

Ah, I just saw your later comment to that effect 🙂

[stuck umbra]

I guess "undercover Rebel in prison" doesn't make for gripping television.

[spare dragon]

Oh it could, but being able to cut to other scenes is a great storytelling tool.

[stuck umbra]

"What happened on tonight's episode?"

"Same as last week. But they came out top in metrics and got flavor this week."

It would be like fifty hours of Andy Dufresne digging a hole with a spoon

[spare dragon]

Makes me think of the WW2 spy who got himself deliberately put into a German concentration camp, to learn & document what was going on there.

[stuck umbra]

Incidentally the whole gamification thing feels very modern and corporate

I wonder how many middle and upper managers in the viewership secretly thought "this is a great idea" instead of "this is dystopian space prison"

[spare dragon]

All of them.

[stuck umbra]

Yeah probably.

[spare dragon]

I think if they ever reboot They Live (and really, it's just a matter of time), gamification of necessities would be an angle to take.

[stuck umbra]

Just imagine! 100% employee retention! No turnover cost! When they retire just shove them back into production on another floor

[weak ivy]

The Polish resistance really was something else. Pity about them being thrown under the tank by the Soviets (and, you know, murdered by the Germans).

[fathom geyser]

By most accounts the Polish resistance was also the largest in terms of percentage of population

[weak ivy]

Oh, I didn't know that - interesting!

[stuck umbra]

Just reading about this guy and apparently his story was completely buried until fairly recently. Absolutely incredible.

Witold Pilecki. Got himself arrested and sent to Auschwitz on purpose, ran resistance cell inside Auschwitz, was in for three years, broke out and escaped one night at 2 am, walked about 25 km a day for a week, through the wilderness, to get to safety. Sadly was later executed by the government installed after the war. Apparently a bunch of people who knew/met him were still around and pretty much just hadn't mentioned him because nobody had asked. I mean, that's the stuff of legends.

[weak ivy]

ran resistance cell inside Auschwitz
Apparently, that part was some Luthen-level morality type of stuff - they very consciously arranged for some prisoners that were "useful" to the cause to get the good, survivable jobs, which obviously also meant that others... didn't.

[stuck umbra]

To be fair I can't exactly say what Luthen did was wrong 😉 (except I think it was stupid of him to not leave Coruscant—just wreck the shop, hop in the Fondor, and... Disappear)

[turbid dagger]

Legend and mid 60s American situation comedy

[turbid dagger]

To be fair, he was in the middle of wrecking the shop when Dedra interrupted him. His mistake was both not ignoting her in order to complete the job, and not having pre-emptively mined the place to blow in the case the ISB didn't knock when they inevitably found him.

[spare dragon]

Bombs are easier to find than a bit of acid, and can blow up accidentally.

[maiden gale]

mon mothma when the electrics short and trigger all the detonators simultaneously

https://tenor.com/vX4lvBwKKZf.gif

[spare dragon]

https://bsky.app/profile/ditzkoff.bsky.social/post/3lqy6xmhrgc2o

Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff.bsky.social)

I’m late to this interview with Tony Gilroy but I think his answer, about why most art is progressive, hits the nail on the head. www.nytimes.com/2025/06/05/o...

Reposts

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Likes

1055

Bluesky · Jun 7, 2025, 1:26 AM

[stuck umbra]

There's a certain dividing line, politically, between "people who think something is a problem," and "people who don't think it's a problem until it happens to them."

When your business is empathy, it makes the second one less likely perhaps

Part of the brilliance of Andor though is highlighting the moral ambiguity of characters like Luthen or Cinta, or Kleya, who are pretty ruthless, and contrasting it with the more naïve approach of Mon or the Ghormans.

It's an explicitly progressive work of art (have a listen to Nemik's manifesto, amirite?), but definitely not "let's all hold hands and sing songs around the bonfire"

[mortal dust]

https://preview.redd.it/v48bvaqwmz5f1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=b06a942cc2302b900cea81b1a1fb9785c77e4198

[weak ivy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DKjuc9Zqrp1/

fanthatracks

The scream #starwars #andor #monmothma

Likes

104

Instagram

[spare dragon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMOw6gP4r7Q

[stoic tulip]

https://collider.com/andor-season-2-tony-gilory-addresses-kathleen-kennedy-online-fan-hate/

Don't often see such praise of Kathleen Kennedy

[spare dragon]

You do in a lot of places that aren't clickbait social media

[karmic mauve]

The only people who really talk about her outside the industry are chuds who are just bitching. If people weren't always pissy, no one would really know here name outside of people who follow the industry.

[spare dragon]

Now, I don't think the way the sequels and the streaming shows worked out was a joy, but it's hard to judge that as an outsider. Nobody did well with streaming.

[copper parcel]

I read an interesting comment in response to someone having a go at KK in the IG comments to Gilroy saying she wanted an extra year to plan the sequels and an extra year production on all of them but Bob Igor said no, he wanted return on Disney’s investment. If that’s true, it’s funny how the woman gets the blame over the man even on an article praising her…

[spare dragon]

Christ, that would explain so much about how this all went down.

[stuck umbra]

And to be fair I'm glad it didn't go five seasons. Two, three, okay. But five is just milking the franchise. Past five I was really only watching Game of Thrones for completionism. Didn't make it past three or four in Downton Abbey. I really only watched Westworld for completionism too, past season 2. And I'm glad The Last of Us is stopping at three. That's enough, quit while you're ahead people

[spare dragon]

A lot of the audience and creators are still syndication-brained, believing that shows that don't run 5, 7, or a dozen seasons are somehow a failure or incomplete.

[stuck umbra]

As sad as I am to say it, part of me is happy Firefly got canned because it now exists as this thing that went out while the creators were still on the top of their game. And then Serenity brought some closure.

I would have liked to see a bit more Andor, sure, but five seasons? Come now

[weak ivy]

hm... I don't know. That show had some impressively horrible implications (*) that could have been set to rest with a second season. Or they could have dug themselves deeper.

*: It's got this awesome fusion of western and Asian cultures. Quick, name your favorite Asian character! Also, maybe don't think too much about who in an Old West setting would be the side that's bitter about losing a war about states' planets' rights...

[stuck umbra]

Fair points

...But one thing I like about both shows is the tension between order and uhhh "freedom" I guess. You've got people like Syril and Dedra who clearly and reasonably believe in the value of order above all else, and a similar dynamic in play with the Big Bad Government in Firefly. Yes maybe in neither case is there a lot of nuance, but they're ultimately shows about, y'know, rebels.

[spare dragon]

The version of order Syril and Dedra believe in is pretty damn chaotic

[stuck umbra]

Well in both cases it's pretty dystopian

"Oh sorry we're just gonna need to strip mine your planet for our super weapon, thanks"

And all the Imperials just go, "yeah that scans"

[stoic tulip]

I'm still impressed they were able to mine, refine and manufacture the parts needed in like 1 year

[weak ivy]

"The drilling is easy, we can be up and running in a matter of weeks."

And of course, the kalkite is for "coating the reactor lenses", so everything else was already being assembled while the whole plan was going on.

[fathom geyser]

It’s real btw

[weak ivy]

No, that's Calcite, not Kalkite.

However...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kalkite+NSW+2627,+Australia/@-36.3338202,148.6247492,10210m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x6b3cc345ee9e508f:0x40609b490441310!8m2!3d-36.3347717!4d148.6366641!16s%2Fg%2F11bxfdtxfh?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDcwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[dusky basin]

Obviously Calcite is a Kalkite substitute.

[weak ivy]

But is it sufficiently grubby?

[dusky basin]

With the amount of time we've spent pondering it? It had better be.

[lyric pumice]

DIET KALKITE
KALKITE ZERO
VANILLA KALKITE

[stoic tulip]

Then after a decade...

KALKITE ORIGINAL

[fathom geyser]

NEW KALKITE

[hasty raft]

We don't have Kalkite, is Dolomite okay?

[turbid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-professor-farnsworth-professor-farnsworth-dolomite-gif-1149974831185889287

[stuck umbra]

Maybe it's potassium-substituted calcite? 🤓

But like... If we could build a Death Star out of calcite there's a 100% chance that humanity would have obliterated itself already...

[spare dragon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mbl8LZbF-bE

[fathom geyser]

you have to swear and kill people

[stuck umbra]

Clutch The Pitt reference. Great show

[stoic tulip]

Thanks! That was an hour and a half diversion.

Show looks incredible

[spare dragon]

https://bsky.app/profile/joshscherr.bsky.social/post/3lwfaqvmjck2q

Josh Scherr (@joshscherr.bsky.social)

HEY WRITERS: Tony Gilroy will not be releasing the Andor scripts due to AI scraping concerns (understandable but sad), but the script for season 2 episode 9, "Welcome to the Rebellion," is now available for download on Disney's Emmy consideration site: assets.debut.disney.com/documents/An...

Likes

115

Bluesky · Aug 14, 2025, 9:08 PM

[stoic tulip]

He's in the zone, she's in shock. Love it

[spare dragon]

it's so interesting to see how the script conveys the particulars of characterization and situations with so few words; it never gets overly descriptive or detailed

[stoic tulip]

I'm a gm in the Tall Tales pbp server. Taking notes from this

[spare dragon]

As someone who hasn't tried much text-based RP, script format seems far more suited for it than prose

[stoic tulip]

Indeed. Sometimes we describe where the camera is pointing and what kind of cut or screen wipe direction we make from scene to scene,

But it is interesting that of all the episodes this is the one to release.

[spare dragon]

It's the episode Disney submitted for Emmy consideration for best writing

[stuck umbra]

Also an interesting choice because if anything it's even more politically relevant now (globally even) than it was when it aired

[maiden gale]

its good but it needs more of the characters telling us directly what theyre thinking and feeling at all times

[spare dragon]

what about an intro text at the beginning of the episode that gives you the answers to all the mysteries and prefigures all the revelations on offer, like with Dark City?

[maiden gale]

perfect

"don't run; we are in a public place after committing a crime and running is going to draw attention. i want to remain undetected and get away without being arrested so we must be inconspicuous."
"you killed that woman. yes she was a bad person and we were in a tough situation but she was a human being like you or I and i am very conflicted over the moral implications of your actions and i am afraid of what this might do to my sense of right and wrong in the long run, which is very important to me as a senator"
"put this coat on. it will provide some small help in concealing our identities, though we still must move quickly from here but not too quickly that it will draw too much attention. espionage is a tricky game senator"

i think this explains the characters better

[spare dragon]

I've heard lines like these a lot when watching American network television

[maiden gale]

theres a scene in the new superman film thats almost exactly like this also

[spare dragon]

I've watched it a few weeks ago, but I forgot most of it already

[maiden gale]

it outdoes all the other previous DC movies by having not one, but two scenes where an overpowered character fights hundreds of faceless army men and tanks in a big open desert while the camera spins around in a long panning shot

[spare dragon]

it's so funny to me that the end, with Krypto mauling Lex Luthor, has Superman as the same kind of hypocrite & moral failure as Nolan's Batman when he lets Liam Neeson fall to his death at the end of that one movie

the scale is different, of course, but the good guy upholding the purity of his ideology by just standing by as someone else is assaulted or killed, and that's played as a triumph LOL

[maiden gale]

"its not me that killed them therefore i am okay :)"

[spare dragon]

that's Superman!

[feral basalt]

Only if you don't look at the big picture, Batman letting Ra's al Ghul die was what directly lead to the events of the third movie where the whole city almost got nuked. It was definitely not a triumph.

[spare dragon]

a movie has to stand on its own

[maiden gale]

im watching superman now with friends and i was wrong

almost the entire movie is like the example above

every other line is exposition for the audience

[spare dragon]

sometimes it's hard to see if the people making a movie feel pity or contempt for the audience

[spare dragon]

Mace, I just got informed by a redditor that most of the world doesn't know that Clark Kent is Superman

Truly, this movie has the audience it deserves

[maiden gale]

what in tarnation

[spare dragon]

in the epilogue, we see that Superman wrote a long article about the random guy who gets killed by Lex, in the prison

to which I wrote: Clark didn't reveal his role in the guy's killing when writing that article, which makes it shitty journalism

and some other redditor explained to me that Clark can't reveal his role, because most of the world doesn't know he's Superman!

Whoa, how did I miss that!

[stuck umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-it-down-dark-city-talking-shut-it-down-forever-gif-17544075

[turbid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/acting-nod-hmph-gif-18509831

[turbid dagger]

The movie repeatedly showed Clark has minimal control over Krypto. The fact that the dog didn't maul to death the man who broke into his him, kidnapped him and planned to kill him IS a triumph.

[turbid dagger]

Clark got called out about his trashy journalism by Lois in the first half of the movie wheh she points out he's basically sockpuppeting puff pieces about himself (her own behaviour in trying to declare when you can declare something off the record also didn't sit right with me as an exercise in ethical journalism even though it was obviously in the context to making a safe recording)

[spare dragon]

Superman is not unable to physically control Krypto, come on.

[spare dragon]

And the movie ends with Clark still behaving unethical as journalist. It's inherent to the whole secret identity thing, I get that, but just shrugging it off feels bad.

[sand thunder]

Clark writing stories about Superman is an age old bit

[spare dragon]

Of course. Doesn't make it exempt from examination.

In general I think the secret identity stuff is often some of the weakest element of a superhero movie.

Rarely if ever it holds up to scrutiny

[feral basalt]

The superman one is the dumbest of all the secret identities, since his secret identity is basically just putting on glasses and somehow nobody notices he looks just like Superman.

[stoic tulip]

If the frames were made of kryptonite to intentionally weaken him and give him bad posture than maybe it would have been more plausible

This IP single handedly ushered in an era of prejudice against glasses wearers (source: myself)

[sand thunder]

The film handles it with all the grace and dignity the question deserves

he wears hypno glasses

[spare dragon]

I don't mind it when it's not in focus, but with Clark's credibility hinging on being truthful in his reporting, it gets weird here

[sand thunder]

Does his credibility hinge on it? I did not get that impression, myself

[spare dragon]

He's a reporter

[sand thunder]

That's really not what the film is about, though

if anything, his job as a reporter is a way to demonstrate what he values, how he contrasts to Lois as a journalist

Like, does Clark not disclosing that he's superman overshadow the fact that he's using his voice to highlight an innocent victim of Lex Luthor's madness? He could have written a story about how much of a big damn hero superman is and how big his penis is and the same issue of journalistic ethics would be present

what he chose to focus on is more important

[spare dragon]

I think that's all besides the point; when it comes out that he's been lying in his articles, any good he did with his work will be eroded, and the reputation of anyone he portrayed positively will be tarnished.

[sand thunder]

Somehow that feels entirely pointless in the face of him also being superman, guy who has saved the earth several times over

like, I dunno, this feels like a "Who changes the tires on the batmobile" kind of thing

[spare dragon]

Because he saved the world he gets to lie?

[spare dragon]

No, because Bruce Wayne isn't a car mechanic

[sand thunder]

At most they just amend the articles to state "Superman, who is clark kent witnessed these events directly"

Hell, just a public statement of "I did not disclose these things in the interest of public safety, so as to avoid retaliation being directed at me, clark kent, a man who works and lives in a very busy city" would probably fly

[spare dragon]

"Clark Kent chose not to disclose his personal involvement in the events he reported from a fictional third person POV"

[sand thunder]

at any rate, I refer back to my statement on what the movie thinks is more important about the whole situation

[spare dragon]

I don't fuck with special rules for special people

[sand thunder]

what a bold and principled stance to take on checks notes Superman

[spare dragon]

I can tell you're bored, considering how you try to keep making this contentious

[sand thunder]

I just find the things you say fascinating

[spare dragon]

See?

[sand thunder]

Well, it's not like I can prove I'm not bored, but I genuinely did just find that an interesting thing to say "his credibility hinges on being truthful" is the kind of statement I'd assume is ABOUT the film, right, like saying the film treats his credibility as a journalist as very important

[turbid dagger]

Krypto beats the crap outa Clark; he's one of the few entities that can inflict pain on him; it seems evident Kara has something of a masochistic streak given the way she gives in to her pet's rough housing. Krypto does not consider himself subservient to Clark, and it is dangerous to insert yourself between an animal like that and its chew toy.

Krypto could have absolutely ripped Lex apart if he'd decided to actively hold on while Clark tries to manhandle him off the bald prick.

The fact the safest way to get Krypto off Lex would maximise Lex's pain is just happy circumstance.

[turbid dagger]

Revealing his private identity serving as a sock puppet for his public one woukd have been just about as nuclear as the reveal about his parents

[spare dragon]

If Clark was interested in stopping Krypto, he could have; the dog only really hurts him when he's already heavily injured.

[turbid dagger]

And Lex would have been tremendously more injured than a broken arm if Clark forces the issue.

Lex is frankly insanely lucky he only got a light mauling.

[spare dragon]

Nah

[spare dragon]

http://www.theqandapodcast.com/2025/08/andor-s2-emmys-q-tony-gilroy-dan-gilroy.html?m=1

Interview with the Gilroys about writing the Ghorman anthem and the massacre, among other things

[stoic tulip]

Source: Yahoo
https://search.app/BpFWy

[native bay]

Whack that Andor had a space dog.

Anyways, I normally like prologue revealed earlier for the stakes to matter but the mixed emotions between Kleya and Luther pay off on what was already shown, even if not told. What a great sequence at the hospital.

[kindred vortex]

Finally finished this series.

Absolutely worth the wait.

[fathom geyser]

ok so this was the best Star Wars thing since the empire strikes back right

[rapid folio]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

[spare dragon]

Easily

Maaaaaaybe there's a discussion if you open it up to any and all media - there's been one or two books I'd put on the same level.

[kindred vortex]

Weird things I enjoyed:

1. It making the Empire feel like a credible threat throughout.
2. Every NCO I saw was competent, as is right.

[spare dragon]

And it's so cathartic when the good guys do get to, ever so rarely,,unleash on the Empire

Cassian shooting the Imps from the TIE was glorious

[kindred vortex]

Him gunning down Clovis was absolutely one of my favourite moments.

[spare dragon]

Clovis?

Oh, you mean the driver

That's Kloris, I think

Clovis is the politician from TCW who creeps on Padme and gets beat up by Anakin

Yeah, the little trick to get him off balance with the name, immediately shooting him, and Mothma freaking out because that's the first time she's seen someone murdered right in front of her - all in the span of a few seconds

[dusky basin]

Well, second time really.

[spare dragon]

Oh right,,the assassin from Bail's team, right?

Yeah, the key thing here is that she knows the driver personally, I guess

[dusky basin]

There’s that too.

[kindred vortex]

That'll be why I misheard it

[dusky basin]

Also the ambiguity to the audience of Kloris’ intentions in that moment; whether he remained a loyal ISB informant or if he had been swayed by listening to her earlier speech.

[spare dragon]

His actions are not consistent with being swayed,imo

He is EAGER to report something to his handlers, that's not what someone going rogue does

[kindred vortex]

Syril looking like having a moment of redemption before it being rugpulled by his fanatical hatred for Andor was a delightful moment

[spare dragon]

He was this close to being at least a tiny bit self-aware, only to let his self-important rage take over again

[dusky basin]

Yeah, the themes there are intentions and last minute changes of heart are great and all, but they don’t undo or save one from the consequences of their actions.

[kindred vortex]

Would have felt quite star wars to me.

Moment of redemption followed by instant death.

[spare dragon]

The Ghorman rebel dad just shouting at him, are you fucking insane to keep spouting the Imp propaganda in the middle of a massacre

[spare dragon]

Gotta have people who don't get it, so that it actually matters for those few who do

[kindred vortex]

It was a bit before the massacre, but yeah.

That's what pushed him to have his moment with Daedra

[spare dragon]

Syril going full wifebeater after stalking Daedra, too

And it's not some scifi or magic thing, just completely, sadly, normal choking and murder threats

[kindred vortex]

It was interesting they gave her the more 'Space-Javert' elements this series too

[rapid folio]

Also, Andor just absolutely destroying his ego with the "Who are you?!?"

[kindred vortex]

One thing I took away was a strange, dislike for Bail that Id never felt before

Fuck that guy

[dusky basin]

So you disliked Bail before Andor…?

[kindred vortex]

My wording probably isn't great.

I like Bail before Andor

[dusky basin]

Okay, yeah. Was a little confused.

[rapid folio]

It sounded like you disliked him, but didn't have a real reason to before Andor

[kindred vortex]

There. Fixed.

[spare dragon]

Makes him more interesting.

That said, he is also the guy who casually orders the mind wipe of 3PO

Depending on how you feel about droids, he might have been a villain to you for a long time 😁

[kindred vortex]

"Luthens been on coruscant too long"

Okay Bail, whos still attending senate meetings.

[spare dragon]

But yeah, its great that his network got infiltrated

And that the hoi polloi bicker in meetings while the real work is done on the ground, at least,from Luthen's POV

But if you look at it coldly, calculatingly - Luthen's methods have served their purpose, and he's gotta stop with the terrorism, so that the hearts and minds part of the rebellion can fully take over

[rapid folio]

One thing I wish we had gotten to see with another season or two is Luthen's falling out with the rest of the rebel leaders

[weak ivy]

Yeah, I can easily imagine they'd have had material for five seasons. But then again, that would have been the rest of their careers.

[spare dragon]

Getting the schedules aligned for this cast, again, would be quite the feat

[rapid folio]

I also doubt Disney would be willing to throw another 500mil at it, too