#Will the Lichess "Computer Analysis" feature be upgraded a bit more to compete with "Game Review"?

27 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

steel galleon
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I really want to promote free chess tools including the lichess analysis features but lower rated players always reply to me "chesscom game review is better and more helpful". I'm guessing it's a lot to do with the "coach" as well as the "brilliant move" dopamine hit. Wondering if lichess will incorporate some general coaching lines programmed in when mistakes are made or something as well as a "great/brilliant" moves

radiant forge
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Hello, the general opinion is that it’s fluff and does not help people improving. There are no objective definition of good/brilliant moves, and the coach thingy is just rephrasing the equivalent of our analysis graph

rose prawn
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Chess.com is all sirens and bright lights.

Nothing they have is better than Lichess.

But it's the opposite. Chess is a free game and learning chess should be free.

If a player needs direct help they could hire a coach or ask for help.

But Lichess is leagues ahead of chess.com

inner ridge
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There is the "learn from your mistake" feature in Lichess that is pretty undervalued.

crimson ether
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also we really gotta promote the threats button in analysis

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its so OP

steel galleon
# radiant forge Hello, the general opinion is that it’s fluff and does not help people improving...

it helps to convert people to lichess, i personally think lichess is way ahead of chesscom but the general consensus ive seen in popular forums as well as the chesscom discord server is that the fluff on game review keeps players on chesscom.

if lichess could implement a toggle to add the fluff in for lower rated players that want it, it may bring more users to lichess. I really love promoting lichess as the superior platform for learning but the reality is im always getting these opposing answers from lower rated players that dont know better. i wish lichess would add it even as a toggle so the barrier to transition platforms is reduced (even if developers and players alike know that lichess doesnt need some BS "brilliant move" and random coach lines)

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thanks for the replies tho guys, i just think it would be a great selling point even just as a toggle to convert people

stoic holly
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I don't think any developer on lichess would feel good about implementing the "coach lines", as they have some standarts for the quality of their programs (And the chess com coach lines are literal garbage).

As for the idea of positive feedback, I would agree it would be a more pleasant experience, but it is hard to implement as you can't easily evaluate the quality of a move well.

crimson ether
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imo the whole fluff is basically in lichess, but in higher quality, the problem is just that the interface isnt as friendly to newbies as the chess.com one is

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which might be caused by the general CSS, or by many features being hidden in different corners

inner ridge
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What newbies don't understand is that they're actually being cheated by game review. Chesscom itself admits they "generously boost the score for low rated players compared to higher ones".

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To be totally fair the accuracy percentage lichess added is not much better, but at least that comes from a real mathematical/statistical approach and is the same for everyone.

stoic holly
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(But its not like lichess couldn't improve on the computer analysis)

sudden locust
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Yeah, the big problem with Chess.com is that it feels helpful while not actually being helpful. Marking moves as brilliant isn't helpful at all, and the game review coach is often misleading and unhelpful about the real reason a move is bad.

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But you are right that the perception of helpfulness does have a more retaining effect on beginner players.

crimson ether
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maybe it might be good if lichess analysis would allow you to have a one-button click through journey through a whole game

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like a button "assisted review"

  1. show last theory move (maybe based on play percentage of moves in database)
  2. show eval after opening (with comparison to recent games)
  3. walk you through all mistakes/blunders (learn from my mistakes)
  4. show several graphs about
  • accuracy of each move (compared to recent games average)
  • evaluation graph
  • performance rating in recent games
  • accuracy in recent games
  1. puzzle topic recommendations (based on opening, tactical opportunities and blunders)
stoic holly
# crimson ether like a button "assisted review" 1. show last theory move (maybe based on play pe...
  1. Hard to say when theory ends as players know their theory differently deep. I don't think its reasonable to go beyond telling you what opening is played.
  2. Eval is shown for every move? Or do you want it to be shown on a seperate UI? But then again you have the issue of when is the end of theory.
  3. Learn from your mistakes is a thing already.
  4. I didn't know a metric of singular move accuracy existed; Evaluation graph exists already; Performance rating exists already; As for "Accuracy in recent games" you could just look at your recent games. But indeed, I agree it would be nice to see your accuracy in your games overview (Perhaps next to the "Computer Analysis Availaible" button)
  5. Puzzle recommendations exist for the opening. As for tactical opportunities, it sounds like a nice feature.

TLDR: The only two things that I agree with are

  • Better puzzle recommendations based on missed tactics (But would require a lot of work to implement with fishnet)
  • Show game accuracy in games overview
crimson ether
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i think i gotta answer to each of the points separately

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about the theory, id say its something like ECO variation is theory, and then the most popular move according to lichess database (as long as its not a bad move, otherwise the best move) is theory

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once we have that we take the end of this theory, and just jump the user towards this point

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then have like an interface that shows you if the evaluation of this position is better or worse for you, and compares this to the average eval of your last games at the end of theory

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that way you can see whether your opening performance improved

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i know learn from your mistakes exists already, i just wanted to propose it as part of the assisted review thingy

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accuracy by move is used in lichess, the game accuracy is just the average

Accuracy% = 103.1668 * exp(-0.04354 * (winPercentBefore - winPercentAfter)) - 3.1669
(from https://lichess.org/page/accuracy)

Lichess Accuracy metric • lichess.org

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