Possible boost for balance of Elves and Giants.

[cyan viper]

Disagree, prefer racial differences. I think they can take them even further. If you want access to everything pick human, it's fine if the other two races are specialized.

[trail ferry]

But, if the hunan does the specialized job better than the other two, why even pick anything but human?

[tulip drift]

Cause humans don't do a better job. IDK where you got that idea

[trail ferry]

Who has the best archery skills?

[cyan viper]

Elves and it's not even close

Like really not close at all. You need s50 erg to reach elves base level and you're still significantly weaker than them. You can't run with arcana skills, your magnum shot has a delay where you're locked into the speed reduction for a fraction of a second making it hard to both mag shot and move away/to the side, being unable to run prevents you from dodging without cancelling the skill which with ping above 90 still takes a fraction of a second locking you and preventing you from running away for a fraction of a second, where an elf would just be able to run with the skill and on top of all of that elves can reach 0 cooldown on mag shot which means with low enough ping they do significantly more damage than humans.

On top of that they get mounted archery which gives them fastest RAHM/CAHM/AAHM clears.

Elves get more benefits towards archery than giants do with close combat. They have significantly better archery, delay when your movement speed changes hurts human and makes them way easier to kill, and they also do less DPS when people have good ping. I don't know where you got the notion humans are magically better at the specialized talents, but that's just not true. I didn't even factor in ladeca skills.

Giants also do noticeably more with close combat, but the gap between human close combat and giant close combat is less than human and elf archer.

[hollow onyx]

Human is meant to be a jack of all trades you sacrifice specialisation for versatility i guess

[paper ether]

Human is the best at magic/ everything that isn't melee or archery as well.

[cursive zinc]

they needed to buff human archery forever ago, at least make the gap between them and elves more equitable to the gap between human and giant close combat

Humans irl can do mounted archery, no reason they can't in mabi either.

[river ember]

give elves duel wield in this case, elves have been left behind for gens lol

[cursive zinc]

also agree

[paper ether]

"left behind" is a weird way to say had the strongest talent for most of the game's life span till checking notesthe EK buffs this year/last year, they even getting their strength buffed soon in kr.

[river ember]

What else is there tong compared to hoomans and giants

[void flame]

Shine can be the same for everyone without making the races feel the same to play. In fact, we can remove the race restriction on talents altogether without making them feel the same too!

• Elves should have lance, but only via rapiers and still unable to use regular lances (no mounted lance combat).
• Giants should have regular archery skills (no AR/Spider Shot) but restricted to atlatl.
• Elves should get arrow revolver.
• Humans should have taunt.
• Giants should have play dead.

There are enough differences between races that each fills a niche, but those differences can be expanded.

• Instead of aim speed and archery damage on Vision of ladeca, include all ranged damage (guns + ninja).
• Switch elf and human magic so humans have a clear advantage in magic with cast speed and mp costs. Elves shouldn't have advantages in both ranged and magic. We need to give more room for humans to stand out instead of just being... nerfed giants that can support shot.
• Give giants nerfed damage numbers with shurikens the same as elves have with nerfed fighter skills and boost elf ninja.
• Boost alchemy skill damage on humans to further lean them into the better magic dealers.

There is room to make each race feel different and unique while still having similar tools in the kit.

[halcyon pumice]

Only thing elves get "better" magic wise is like slightly less ice spear mp cost, pretty useless.

[south elk]

Instead of nerfing giant's ninja just make it dex+will. If we are giving elves lance talent as rapiers it would give alot of will anyway so it should work. There is no logical reason why everything that isn't staff/wand, astro, chain, x/bow or alchemy is using STR as one of it's damage modifier. Though not sure it will matter i the long run since we are apparently getting stat gaps gutted in the future. I agree for the most part. on exception of the idea that elf magic is superior. green circle will easily eliminate the tiny MP cost gap if your spirit staff/wand isn't already giving you back chunks of MP every 10-15 hits. The casting speed is invisible once you get erg/reforges.

Would be nice to see more race specific skills to justify playing elves over humans and giants. yeah they are the best t magnum shot and mounted dungeon clears but despite how meta it is it gets really boring when your entire race turns into magnum shot and crash shot. It gets even worse when you factor in that erg50A is a minimal requirement to be good on elves now that ungeared int magic isn't the easy answer to most the game. Puppets and ninja could easily have elf unique skills. Guns are made by giants so its only natural they keep the neutral or giant sided.

[void flame]

Largely agree.

Forget that it's a small advantage (mp cost), elves shouldn't really have it. You could push that advantage further and give it to humans, adding on a cast speed boost (which, I thought there was also a casting speed benefit that elves had? Eh, I've been wrong before.)

Lowkey, would be kinda funny if giants made a thing (guns) and elves were just better at that thing in spite of the giant's best efforts. I'm not convinced on puppets being elf-coded. Care to explore that idea more?

[paper ether]

I don't think humans really need to have any more advantanges then they currently have, being they are the best at all non chain/archery/CC talents

[south elk]

I think humans are fine without advantages as having no disadvantage is one of the strongest advantages one can have. Having no weakness means you don't have to make up for flaws, only use whatever gives you a advantage.

Puppets require extreme amounts of dex(irl) to actually control. The skill set is missing acts and has fairly obvious gaps in it's playstyle. Mainly the ability to protect itself or user if it is being hit and if both are being hit at the same time your rendered completely useless if there is no gaps. You can load Act 4 if you can find a gap but thats about it. This weakness falls in line with their glassy/frail defensive options on ranged and chain, though chain has anchor rush it requires resources to use and it's attacks require alot of time to use as well. Elves lack melee options sporting literally only chain as a strong option outside arcana. Everything else is very noodle arms for them.

So why not make it elf coded? they are very dexterous, they are performative/crafty NPCs around the world puppets themselves require all 3 of those attributes. Giants have warrior and knight which compliment their size and STR so shouldn't elves specialize in the strongest dex weapons that compliment their speed and dex. Consider it the melee for elves the way guns are the ranged for giants.

[deft nymph]

I think the races are fine as is, I feel like people vastly underestimate the benefit of elf movespeed especially since it also scales with march
They have the strongest magnum shot, extra dmg and speed on bow, elf hide is useful in a variety of situations, etc.

I feel pretty comfortable with where the races are as is because we all have our specialties

God I hate 1h cooldown see u in an hour when I can reply

[river ember]

yis zoomies is nice when you pop like a balloon but those are race specific I feel. Each race should have their own set of those.

humans got the balance once range was updated.

also hide has cd when hit so its rarely as useful. Elves do not feel at par with humans and giants unless you really focus range talent NOW (if you have great ping) . Back then elves missed so much and had range lag till update.

you are comparing an arcana to general skills/talents/stats @paper ether .

This 1 hour cd sucks tbh

Its feels different when you are in endgame content tokku imo but its not as terrible as it was.