Need more Demolition and Ruination weapons

[silver ore]

Please grant the TW server, the NA server, the CN, and JP servers Demolition and Ruination weapons of the remaining weapon variaties.

Reason why: The game is becoming stagnant, the korean developers lead by director Min have no short term, or 6 month plan for the immediate future of mabinogi, leaving the players without anything to do but twiddle our thumbs with the same content, and nothing to work towards. There is no tangible end-game, and their only plan is to add an extra "hardmode" to Glen Bearna dungeon. This dungeon will have primarely enchants, and a new type of accessory, but this content is only a niche band-aide over an all-encompasing trench of stagnation in content. There is simply nothing to work towards elsewhere.

Crom-bas has it's own exclusive rewards, however Crom-bas was catered towards the KR player-base who wanted to abolish high-level gear progression, and as such the weapons, and rewards are high-cost with little reward.

In the case for every other server region, no one has shared this sentiment, or at least the vast majority of players don't see gear progression as an issue with the inclusion of the Demolition and Ruination weapons (Staves, and bows). It would be in the player's benefits to garner more interest in playing mabinogi more if the remainder of the demolition and ruination weapons were included.

This in turn would increase player activity, give players a better choice in what gear they can work towards, as these weapons are top-of the line, and rewarding to use unlike the Nightbringer model weapons. This would also allow the choice to spread the content to other dungeons, to allow players to experience running crom bas, or glen bearna more should the materials for said weapons be installed in those drop-pools instead of just Tech Duinn.

Please give us something to work towards. Pass this onto the developers, make it so they know other regions want to play their game more, and want to show more interest in it than their kr playerbase. Please put your millitians to work, we're bored out of our freakin' minds. Give us stimulation, not stagnation!

[quaint carbon]

not a fan of the focus of the OP but I support the idea of having more demo/ruin weapons

these weapon types only exist for talents that were already some of the strongest and now have arcana on top of it

the talents with ruins weapons have a massive advantage over every other talent both in potential power and cost effectiveness

Ruin weapons create such a massive gap that it is extremely difficult to even justify playing as a non AS/DD for fun

even when you have other talents at their peaks to at least compared the actual cost is to absurd to even be worth much consideration outside of hypotheticals

and the final point that future arcana will not be designed to be comparable to DD/AS with ruins weapons

[silver ore]

I think the weapons would do us better, since arcana is on indefinite delay until eternity is released per the director's words.

It could take years before arcana content is released again, unless they change their minds.

It's more content stagnation otherwise. People will gun for either archer or mage, or ek in the least case, and nothing else because there is no viable use for other talents without proper gear. Especially so since Nightbringer gears are just not worth getting with their small bonuses and high cost.

[quaint carbon]

this is just misinformation

what you're referring to was talking about how the graphics of arcana would likely be changed in eternity

it had nothing to do with the delay

it was stated that the they pushed back the arcana because there was no role to give it in current mabi so they are developing it alongside new content they intend for it to be particularly good at

[true bobcat]

I'm interested in this thread 👀 BUT
Regardless, please be respectful to each other and to others (perhaps leaving out the Director or Development team) and consider this topic objectively as well.

[silver ore]

I understand, however there is a very big disparity in content for both mid-game an endgame players. Even mid-game casual players are voicing their grief in chat in game about how there is nothing to do. Some leave the game indefinitely until a master-plan event, or for a week or forever. There is nothing to work towards because the only options are glen bearna, and crom bas which were catered to a portion of a player base that wanted to abolish gear progression. The result is that gear progression for every other region is unfortunately pushed to gachapons, which is unhealthy since it's just fomo in a box. Tech Duinn dungeons are successful in every region outside of Korea for the purpose of demolition/ruination weapons which are a straightforward clear-cut path to progression. They offer an alternative path outside of arcanas to use talents more proactively.

No one is willing to wait around for a new arcana to solve their problems anymore, because it could be a year, or more until a new pair of arcanas are announced. The likelihood it's a combination of talents that aren't even favorable by players is also a factor. This will cause players to get turned off and either grind the newer arcanas as a coping mechanism, or quit for another year or longer until they can gamble the chance at a more compatible arcana to be released that allows them to use their favorite talents. This ultimately introduces more stagnation for a large spectrum of players who find that content does not match their needs.

Introducing new content that players can work towards will significantly boost player activity. I've seen how in #🌏・overseas-discussion that players are speculated to be just replaced with new ones if those that quit never log in again, however that's something all regions have to avoid. You simply can't just get into the mindset to replace players. That doesn't work for mmo's outside of Japan or Korea where mmo's are becoming a niche. You'd want to keep your newer and older players active, wanting to play, and wanting to work towards something. A long-time player who's played for 5 ~ 15 years cannot be replaced by a casual player who plays, gets bored within 5 months, then uninstalls the game forever. There is no stimulation to keep them interested. If players could simply be replaced, we would still have 4 servers in the north american version of the game.

That's why creating options like Demolition / Ruination weapons for other talents becomes viable. It makes it so other talents can become useful by working towards building something worthwhile. The same thing goes for gear progression for armors as well. Gacha should be used as a last resort for fun, or obtaining gear by chance, not as a direct method of progression. Glen Bearna sort of does this with it's own armor sets, however the forest ranger set was also cut from our version of glen bearna dungeon rewards as well. As I've previously mentioned, the Nightbringer series of weapons, as well as the newer Perseus weapons do not measure up to gear progression. They are a byproduct of abolishment to gear progression in the KR server, and have too high cost for little reward compared to the original revenant/perseus knuckles, control bars, Cylinders, and demolition/ruination bow/staves. You could add a new dungeon, or new difficulty to a pre-existing one, but it's ultimately pointless if there's nothing worthwhile to work towards.

You need to create stimulation to keep players occupied in game. A lack of progression, in addition to complete stagnation will just create a situation where players both casual and active to leave forever. You have to put your Millitians to work!

[silver ore]

Dungeons are another issue all together. Players want harder content, yes, but the harder content is often provided with rewards that are seldom worked towards. It took a gachapon with an overpowered armor to goad people into running glen bearna to build the armors from that dungeon. Even then, it's only just two to three items from what's offered from Glen bearna, since there is no reason to make bodywears anymore. Gachapon ruined the incentive to run glen bearna to make armors, but another gachapon gave players a reason to run it again to make some of the armor pieces. Incentivizing gear progression isn't wrong, but there's a huge problem with how it's only valid with gachapons now. When the current hyperion gachapon ends, and Hyperion armors go to 600m ~ 800m or higher, players will be turned away from making armor pieces again. It just won't be feasible for alot of players anymore. They'll have to wait until a new gachapon or a new armor set is released to fill in that gap.

[tepid idol]

In a similar fashion, there are weapons who have just been completely left out of the progression teirs after the celtic level. 2h Hammer, 1h Axe, and Crossbow. They should also be given their own advantages over other types of weapons to help make them more of an options. I'd like to see these having ruination tiers since they're left out of everything else

Personally i like crossbows more than bows because it allows me to run, not walk, while having archery skills loaded. As a slower to react player, its often dificult for me to cancel skills and Then move. I'd rather just be able to run all the time. Unfortunately Crossbows have been almost completely ignored. They have no unlimited arrow options, and crafted arrows fall far short of the best crafted arrow for Bows, the Piercing Forest Arrows.

Likewise, many people would enjoy the Style of using a large hammer instead of a sword if it was even remotely close in damage to a sword. Options could be that maybe it doesn't bet piercing like a 2h sword but maybe it's got Smash bonus damage 50% because when you're slamming a giant sledge hammer into a body, it's gonna take a harder swing than a sword. Either way there are options. But Erg and tier options have sorely limited any player preferences for mele combat.

[quiet inlet]

Nightbringer Rouge (Crossbow) is probably seething that you forgot it existed

[hallow loom]

Really they should just stop putting armor sets in gachapon altogether. Unless they're purely cosmetic. Should make them craftable and obtainable in game.

[dire hornet]

I just came back to the game and like, I'm not a giant main or anything, but I'm gonna point out there are still only 3 atlatls in the entire game, throwing attack still hasn't been reworked/updated from when giants were introduced...

OH AND ALSO instruments still can't be ego'd, erg'd, or spec up'd (with a unique relevant buff), the base healing and party healing skills STILL don't scale with any existing base stat and rely entirely on niche effects, along with wands being the only type of magic weapon that gives a healing bonus (Celtic Guardian Staff maybe excluded unless they took that away), excluding HS from having both access to an upgraded form of base cleric skills AND hailstorm 🙃

OH and uhh...the elemenetal shield skills are still the only non adv magic that can't be used with spellwalk UwU (yes I know I'm getting off topic but it felt fairly relevant to the whole diversity in weapons and class thing)

[tepid idol]

🤣Didn't forget, but it still doesn't have an unlimited arrow. I guess I phrased my comment badly. I meant the other two were left out and crossbows were left out of ruin and demo

[silver ore]

Bard hasn't been updated at all since Lord Missions were released in the shakespear generations. You could add really nice instruments to Magmel that have their own set effects similar to the Troubadour set from gachapon.

Stuff like Chimes having a Harvest song set effect with higher success rate, or drums that give buffs to Battlefield overture, or a Flute/Whistle that enhances Lullaby. You could literally have a set effect unique to any and every type of instrument, and make it so Magmel provides the materials. This would see more traffic to Magmel as a dungeon, since no one goes there anymore outside of collecting fynn beads.

The devs could explore so many options to keep players working towards something. The content is potentially already there, just make more use out of it to keep players occupied.

[tepid idol]

Omg Mag Mel instuments!?!?! 😭 I love this idea so much!!! And it matches with the Fleur's Tiara!

I'd love to see boosts to the skills as set effects on craftable items. Gloomy for overall buffs and other instruments for a more focused higher buff to skills!

[silver ore]

The goal of this feedback lastly is to hopefully tell the kr devs that the constant contradictions in progression are holding the game back. Especially when they should be getting players invested in playing more pre-eternal update. However progression abolishment, limits, gachapon progression, and ignoring possible content avenues are ever contributing to a needless stagnation of a great game. Mabi players want to invest in the game in anyway they can, they want to spend time, and money working towards goals, a fantasy life as the slogan suggests.

[clear axle]

Yes give us more demo / ruin weapons and continue development of tech dungeons like theta. We have a lot of assets for bosses that could be used for content. It doesn't consume a lot of development time since the assets are already there, so its a win for the players and a win for the developers.

[snow sage]

Sadly it isn't that simple with Mabinogi. The game is struggling with a fragmented main story line that was designed back in 2008, to top it off there is still the currently existing gear gap between mid and end game tiers. This has more less kept new players away, and the additions of Blannid, or other 'bandaids' are nothing more but that. Blannid was a nice addition, however, it is limited, and with how much character building and understanding you get starting out, Blannid basically skims over that and new players are left wondering what to do next.

there isn't much, avon is still a forgotten mess, most of the mid game content is out of touch with the end game content, and mats in endgame dungeons are near impossible to obtain in a resonable amount of time. From what I've heard, it takes 4 months to grind out a Ruin weapon, and that is if you are getting 1 ruin mat, per day at least.

With the additions of limits, and various other matters... continue to push away new players when they get to a point, as reward doesn't match effort. Run 400+ runs just to get 1 weapon? seriously?

As for adding additional weapons. I wouldn't mind it, to be honest I think they need to also add more armor sets, there isn't that many GOOD armor sets in the game, and most of them are sadly locked behind a gacha paywall, and the best armor is locked behind a frozen tundra that has a limit that just cripples your progress. Tech armor is dated for current content being Crom, and is also not that easy to obtain, would consider them to be just as hard as crafting a weapon.

So, in short, more weapons would not bring in new blood, more like old blood. This would only last for short awhile if drop rates are unchanged and things go back to the way they are now, and the filling of the weapon and armor gap is probably a necessity at this point, and have content/dungeons be rewarding.

[silver ore]

The point of this feedback is to introduce more goal-oriented content into the game, instead of following the current narrative where you have to run the latest dungeon to get armor no one uses unless it's supported by a gacha armor. Introducing more options for growth and progression will keep players invested, new and old for a very long time. Right now the only content on the horizon is very-hard mode glenn bearna, which only has a few enchants and a new Accessory that almost no one will get.

Immediately right out of the gate, this content is stagnant, and it's self-defeating when mabi could desperately use more content players can invest time and energy in.

Lets say if Nexon introduces a Demolition or Ruin Shuriken tomorrow. Players who are invested in wanting to play ninja will want to build these weapons.

Let's imagine if say Demo/Ruin Shurikens had a CD reduction on Sakura Abyss by 200 seconds ~ 250 seconds, Sakura abyss Channeling effect where holding down the hotkey continuously attacks similar to Pulse of Purification, and maybe a CD reset like Knuckles

It would make ninja skills more intricate to use, and would allow players to use the talent easier. There are alot of fans of Naruto who want to make a fast and awesome ninja character, but are held back by the horrible selection of gear, and talent balance.

Lots of players would invest alot of time into grinding for those new gears. Nightbringer/persues weapons do not offer those kinds things, as those gears are a product of Kr players wanting to abolish progression via gears. In a similar way right now players spend hours each week in tech duinn grinding demo/ruin bows or staves because that's goal oriented content that rewards the player after a long grind.

[snow sage]

most other skill sets need a rework of some kind, currently the focus was range, melee, mage, and now lance? Other sets would need a overhaul, and most of their weapons to be reworked to match current content, unless they were to dummy down the content a little more to lower the ceiling, but the current reworked skill sets would then be over powered. Nexon kindof painted themselves in a corner here, and honestly I see UE5 being the way out, but that depends on how they do a few key things, first- how would the transition be, would we retain our characters and their content? Or would we have to start anew. Secondly- how much of a change would it be? Would combat mechanics in general change, or would we retain the current combat style and effect, while also addressing a few other issues like the grind and drop rates in dungeons.

As for Goal Oriented content, firstly, the goal would have to be achievable in a reasonable amount of time, having a goal that takes 4+ months or more, isn't something to grind for but rather to avoid. People play games to have fun, not to have another job, so why spend nearly half a year, to get 1 weapon? That isn't a means to retain or obtain a player base, but rather to push them away. Address the issues of the grind and people would flock on over, infact when people heard of the increased drop rates for Techs, there was a TON of people involved with the grind, but once they seen what was involved with drop rates (not much has changed), and the limits that were imposed on endgame dungeons, that moreless pushed people away from doing that content. Again, bringing up the Effort to Reward ratio.

I agree that new gear would be nice, but it wouldn't really change much, I would like to see that content be implemented, however, it wouldn't address the glaring issues called 'low drop rates'.

If I were to look at other KR games, or even beyond, that involved Gacha, their methods actually involve less effort, yet more reward. Look at Genshin Impact for example, I can get a S rank character by simply playing the game and not spend any money into it, I don't need to run a dungeon x amount of times just for 1 character, or in mabi's case, for 1 fragment of a character... and have RNG take the wheel when crafting.

Genshin Impact isn't a perfect example, but it is a gacha game, and it is a game that doesn't rely on what you have in completing content, you do not NEED a S rank character to complete content, just skill or knowhow. Having a S rank character more less effects your efficiency.

As for adding new weapons/armors, Final Fantasy (granted it isnt a Gacha based game but...) is a perfect example, when they implement a new chapter or expansion, usually they add in 3 maybe 4 different classes, this does bring people to the game, and so does the story, but the content is again much easier to do, and more rewarding. Right now I play FFXIV dungeons more than I play in Mabi, as most of my time in Mabi is being afk because the content is so... so so SO boring, and not rewarding for the time spent and the effort I put into that time.

[jade fulcrum]

Mabi isn't a gacha game or a subscription game so comparing genshin or ff14 to Mabi is unfair.

Also later Mabi content is fun like glen and higher crom.

[snow sage]

I think those were perfect examples, the only reason why FFXIV is subscription based is because it keeps the community numbers down and limits bots, otherwise their servers would be overloaded most of the time (and it is actually f2p up to lvl 70 if I recall, but limited to prevent botting). As for Genshin? Its almost a 1 to 1 comparison, because thats what a loot box is, a Gacha, but instead of actually useful things and limited trash content, most of the content in a box for Mabi is garbage, while also having p2w content like that Hyperion armor set... that there is a Gacha.

Sure later content is fun n all, but getting there is the hard part, instead of being carried all the time just to get to the door, would be nice to actually show up on your own two feet and actually contribute to the work in a dungeon. But once you are done with a Glenn run, or a Crom run, you're more likely not to be rewarded for your efforts. Thats the issue with Mabi, fun does not equal reward for a end game chest.

If I want to have fun and not be rewarded, the I mind as well just play minesweeper or a crossword puzzle...

[coral mason]

Yeah uuh, Mabi literally has Gach, you are also gated by limited runs, Genshin is like that too. You are limited by resin and reward claims on bosses, plus it's literally built around gach. The thing Mabi has over Genshin is trade, customization and more grindable f2p gears but it's not like that's the difference between a MMO and mobile game (Honkai 3rd has f2p stigmata grinding which mind you takes months to get the matts just like Mabi!). Not to mention Tower of Fantasy... Mabi has been called Solonogi as well, the main interaction with other players is being in town, outside of instanced dungeons but in Genshin you can co op domains and bosses. It doesn't take much to turn Genshin into a 'MMO' like Mabi as a result. You actually can easily compare Mabi to a Gacha, it simply lives on due to Gacha. Mabi may as well be a mobile gacha game, both are also technically 'f2p' 🐱 I'd say the only thing making Mabi a MMO is the ability to trade and a essentially large lobby where players can interact before going into a instance.

Ehn-na 8l..

There is also a problem with other demo and ruin weapons which is literally power creep, I'm sure people are going to be incredibly annoyed their weapons are obsolete. Also is the Demo/Ruin Dual Guns going to beat Nightbringer? Nightbringer Guns don't even touch Arcanas, so if these weapons are going to 'revive' dead talents then you're kidding yourself. They'd need to beat Nightbringer bonuses which is ridiculous already unless they buff Nightbringers too.

Ideally a rework on dead talents is required (they did Lance, it's still subpar) and even that's not garunteed to bring them up to scratch. I get that 'insert op weapon as pseudo buff' is easier for the devs though but it's not the best solution.

[wild oriole]

Any solution is better than what they’re doing now. I think they should release OP ruination weps for other classes and have them on par to arcanas.

[quiet inlet]

I mean, Ruination was meant to resemble the original Perseus set

[coral mason]

Demo/Ruin weapons + rework, that'll get people rolling 🙂 Demo/Ruin will not be enough to revive a dead talent, it'd have to be similar to Astrologer, people are going to get into that talent because it's actually good and compliments at least HS, so they will actually work towards getting gear for it, if it's just new weapons, with no changes to the talent so it doesn't even hold a candle to Arcana, few are going to bother, Astrologer apparently keeps up with EK

[quiet inlet]

if anything, KR decided that everyone should get a "Perseus" set that resembled Nightbringer

[coral mason]

Yeah that's why I think just new weapons won't do it, Perseus is basically that, heck I just looked at maybe going back to EK and getting that 24/20 smash Perseus, my conclusion was that I could just get Ringbands, it'd be cheaper even, and way stronger than EK

I'd consider Astrologer because it's usable with any Arcana tbh, and it can hold it's own, it's a new talent true, and people will need to gear for it, but that's not much different from adding demo/ruin and reworking a dead talent to the point it's 'reborn', it's easier said than done though

[snow sage]

thats not fixing the problem, thats putting a band-aid on it and saying its fixed, but it wouldn't address the matter of getting more people into the game, which was the intent originally with adding new weapons.

I cant force someone to play the game for months just so they can get the next best thing as a new player, that would make no sense for them and for me, all they want to do is play and enjoy the game, while having that feeling of being rewarded for their efforts.

As Cat has stated, more weapons would be nice, but a rework is in a way required here if the plan is to get and retain new players. From my observations, it would require the likes of skill/talent rework and the rework of the reward system in dungeons, and the filling of the gear gap that still exists. Nexon can try to quickly bait people into the game with cheap tactics, but keeping people in the game, while also having them put money into it? Thats a whole different thing, that requires a long term solution(s), something that Nexon doesn't do, as all the solutions so far, are short term. What also hurts this game is Nexon reputation, it is extremely hard to rebuild trust, when people see that name... Nexon, they immediately think of all of the other failure projects/games, scams, scumbag tactics, and various other issues. I mean... look at first descendant... 75k reviews on steam? that thing is a failure on launch.

[coral mason]

Yuhhh the rewards system is 💀 and I ignored it because it's pretty known it's terrible. What Ghost is saying is that rates that low even with a nice rework or new weapons is going to demotivate players. The good thing about Demo though, it's reasonably priced so if it follows the pricing of staffs currently and it'd be a more reachable goal for most players, hitting that goal and then the talent is sub par, yeah that'll unmotivate people, hence why I think a rework is needed on top of the new weapons. New weapons might even be ignored even because of Perseus. But how long are these people going to stay once they're met with the endgame drop rates? As soon as I hit TTL 40K and got a Demo and average other stuff, I haven't really bothered with anything but afk and fashionogi 8l.. Ruin Staff? 1.6b vs my 200m staff, I'd get 1 pierce and a better bonus on FB + Meteor, and it's grindy as heck. It's nice there's something to potentially work towards but it's way way too far away for most players.

I should add BDO is known to be grindy as heck to the point I fall asleep just grinding in that game, but you can get enough to outright buy your goal at a reasonable rate in comparison to Mabi. 200h of grind for a 200b endgame accessory a few patches back (1b/hr) vs 200h of grind for 200m (swiz 1m/hr for a mid demo staff)... wow 200h to get a mid game demo staff vs BDO's endgame accessories, if I were to downscale BDO to 50b endgame niche accessories depending on build, that's just 50h of grind... it's not even a competition lol

Mabi does have more you can do with chump change though which gives you a lot of things to explore other talents or fashion or aesthetics till endgame, making it arguably more enjoyable than BDO which you have nothing but gear to save and spend on

[wild oriole]

i think its a fix.

[dire light]

The only reasonable way to fix multiple skills to not get as gapped is create support for those skillsets - That means adding more gear and creating healthier reforge support similar to the trinity talent (Single rolls + echo per) and actual viability versus most of the enemies. Puppets fall off in content where everything has super armor.

You can say weapons and gear don't fix xyz talents but erg (a gear upgrade) is the only reason puppet even has a niche viability for Act 2 tech.

Adding gear the serves to remedy the faults without doing major overhauls of talents or trying to (see EK/Gunner AND ninja "reworks"

Redoing the entirety of combat talents isn't feasible because as they stand they mostly all have something worth using.

[coral mason]

Erg isn't releasing a new weapon, it's a addition of an upgrade system which applies to existing weapons, that could be a idea 👀 as long as it's reasonable.

Reworks... they do take more effort, and they could be meaningless which I'm assuming is why the topic is about adding new equipment, I think that's why a mix would be best - yes reworks take more effort in general. This is widely known across any game, but that's if you're changing mechanics, you can easily argue creating new weapons and designing the boosts it gives (which typically involves increasing percentages) more work than simply buffing skill percentages because it's the same boost minus needing to design the weapon aesthetics and how to obtain it. Actually if the upgrades involve CD, range etc. it IS changing mechanics now.

Now regarding mechanics, you may as well consider Erg a rework across many talents since it includes a lot of mechanics changes rather than just damage boosts and at this stage you can really go with a rework or power creep weapons and gear - also power creep weapons is more likely to get people to spend in the first place so it's more likely Nexon will do it over a rework.

[coral mason]

I'd personally do a minor rework and add that Demo/Ruin, the minor rework is basically for inclusiveness and advertising. Everyone gets access to it and can try it, it needs to be decent. The people who dig it can go invest or work for Demo/Ruin equivalents. Otherwise I feel people are gonna be like "I'd like to try it but it's all tied to gear and I don't have the money". You're basically releasing a premium product only the privileged can use otherwise, then you're wondering why you're not topping the sales charts.

[dire light]

I'mma be really real w/ you rn. Reworking erg to better support the talents while adding more steps to existing progression and a new end goal in between or after pers and nightbringer are all numerical fixes. Fighter alone subsisted off crazy high damage and was dominant with no piercing.

If you play puppets with erg and without erg you'll notice real quickly how different they function. Also inclusiveness of what? this game is 90% number checks - if the numbers are bad the talent is bad, thats just how it is. The game isn't organized in a way that supports alternative value that everyone cant already use.

[wild oriole]

I can tell u rn people would be using puppetry for dmg if it hit as hard as an ignis!

Or fighter if the mults were on par with tri-assault

[coral mason]

Yeah this post is about new weapons that will miraculously make obsolete talents on par with current meta / arcanas right? You'd need like ruin dual guns to double the damage you do with say divine guns and even then I'm not sure that keeps up with meta. That's gonna cause a massive disparity between current bis guns they'd need to buff nightbringer and maybe perseus.

You said it yourself, puppets with erg is very different. Well not everyone is going to have that erg, so they don't all experience how different puppet is. I'm saying if you split the power ups so even someone trying puppet can feel those changes, and they can get endgame puppet gear that boosts it even more, there'd be more incentive to invest into the talent.

It's common sense, but I'm thinking in the sense of a newcomer or midgamer that had never touched the other talents besides ranking them because they simply were worse than what they were using (arcana).

There's a reason when products get released there are all these different versions at different prices and at times the 3rd best / premium model isn't missing much. Imagine paying $1000 for one of those old iPhone SEs but if you pay $1500 you can get a Pro Max, it's like 2x better because you tied all the benefits to the top model who would want any lower model then? It'd be top model or bust.

I literally kept away from fighter during EK meta because I was getting told you need Erg S 50. It's nice that it was a option that was super strong and kept up with EK, even supported it, but it's locked behind Erg.

[dire light]

Hi, this is literally the fighter meta btw. Get rev/pers knux and erg them now you have bis damage that far outdpsed anything else in the game. Hope that gives some clarity that numerical buffs via bonus effects (like what brought archery back into meta and made mage more than cope) came from gear xoxo

[snow sage]

All im seeing are ideas to shift the playerbase to other skillsets, nothing about retaining or gaining more players.

Go right on ahead, add more ruin/demo gear to the game, im sure the new playerbase would entirely understand the effectiveness of those weapon sets when they start, and completely ignore the grind that goes with them.

There is nothing wrong with adding weapons, but when trying it to tie it to adding more player base? I find that a bit strange if not false, it would only gain back a small part of the old player base, that currently exists.

[snow sage]

LIke granted to some of the things here are true, but erging? A new player getting into erging? Erging is a waste of time and resources, it should be an additive, not a requirement to do content. This fills a gap, but the cost of Erging, you can basically get a new weapon at that point.

As for talents being reworked? Firstly alot of the talents are outdated, or lack a reason to use, as more 'meta' talents, can do the same or better. The game is sadly designed in the idea of meta building, its why we see mage, melee, and range being the top 3 types out there, to top it off the 4th would be lance. If you need a talent that can CC, then use a Chainblade, why use anything else? Puppet is nice, but is complicated for some, I myself included, and dualguns tend to knock things over when you don't want it too and lack damage, Ninja also lacks damage to a degree but has great utility in 1 or 2 end game dungeons. However, despite their uses, they have very limited utility to them vs the main 3 or 4 talents, and Chain blade can be used to cover the gaps.

If you want people to use other talents more, then you will need to find a means to make it just as strong, and have the same or better utility than the main 4 we currently have. In the end, reworking talents would be necessary, for simplicity, refinement, and to rebalance the damage output.

Another method would be to tie in other talents into the four main talents, where skills and their effectiveness are changed based on the main set of talents, rather than being independent, this would allow for flexibility, and basically structure it like branches in a way...

honestly, they just need to do away with puncture, and just lower mob defense/protection on higher difficulty, that would fix all of this...

[dire light]

Yes just ignore that the main talents also require erg to function at high levels

[snow sage]

Main talents have Arcana's they still perform better than others in higher level.

with or without, it can be done, and its easier to get into acana, than it is to get into Erging

[coral mason]

Bravo, yes, now I'm saying do similar to the obsolete talents, but make it so that it's less fully loaded into erg like fighter. I don't think fighter is meta anymore (you'd use it as elf still for melee?) and when I asked if I should consider fighter still, I got a solid I can just bash smash now. Before AS and DD, well I'm saying it was EK meta because it was simply more accessible than erged fighter, sure fighter did more single target dps and Dynas in between chunked but the majority as I saw it were using EK without the fighter.

Now here's the thing. During EK meta, there were actually a few other options compared to now. Erged fighter even if locked behind erg, had use, alch did especially in crom, elf mag keeps up and I recall my gm saying it was top single target situational dps with good connection. Nowadays it's "just DD". DD is a good example of being way too accessible which is both good and bad.

If you read what I'm saying then it should be clear that I know what numerical buffs and bonus effects can do. No one is saying no to buffs to other talents. I'm just saying to have it less front loaded into gear. I feel a lot more people would have used fighter back then if part of those juicy CD reductions were also built into knuckle mastery, but you'd need erg to have that near indefinite cycle of spamming the skills. TBH thinking about it, EK meta had more talent diversity than now lol even if it was locked behind gear (let's not get started with mag and pallid during the time) and it looks like you guys want to go back to that, even Saints with Demo had AoE and kiting purposes over EK although EK was preferred for that single target damage, but even Saint + Demo is the work of a arcana working with gear so yes while that is a example of 'doesn't need erg', it's got a arcana backing it up.

If something is more accessible then more people are going to get exposure to it and they're more likely to consider or invest into it. It's simple marketing that's critical for companies making profit and satisfying their customers 😶.

[silver ore]

https://tenor.com/view/kazuma-konosuba-seriously-what-lol-gif-13919669

I think the point has been severely missed. My point was to add more things for players to spend time on, and to create long term goals to keep them in game longer. Making demo/ruin weapons is a long term grind or goal. A normal player making that leap can spend months of grinding to make weapons by themselves. However that grind isn't inherently bad. It gives content like tech duinn more traffic/activity, and has had a larger significant result than korea's server that did without the content. Meanwhile you have Crom Bas, a dungeon that was catered to abolishment by the kr playerbase. It was also reworked numerous times, even the weapons were slightly reworked. However those changes also almost caused more large scale protests from their playerbase over a few max damage added to the NB bow of all things. How Crom Bas was handled initially has set a chain of events that ultimately damaged mabi's content moving forward. Crom Bas is still a very unfocused, inactive, and poorly designed dungeon with rewards that cost too much to make for how little they offer to the talents they belong to.

Adding new demo/ruin weapons would allow players to focus their attention to content more instead of calling it quits after making a bow or staff. Adding new instruments to Magmel as I've previously mentioned would allow players to utilize bard in different ways with unique instruments. Allowing old gacha armors like Saint guardian, forest ranger, or troubadour sets from dungeons like glen bearna (like how kr has it done) will allow players to find different uses for already existing content.

You have to add stimulation, a want, and goal to keep players invested in staying. Players will get burnout, sure, but that doesn't spellout quitting after a long grind. Players quit when they have nothing to do, and their efforts were invalidated by a gachapon that's needed to make other content valid. If needs aren't met, they leave. If it takes nearly 3 years to get a dungeon that only rewards wishy washy aesthetics, they quit.

There's no solid date for mabi eternal to be released. It could honestly be another 4 to 10 years before some solid date. However depending on who you talk to, they may or may not stick around for that long. Not when there is literally nothing to do once you're done with glen bearna content which isnt a milestone anymore.

[silver ore]

There has to be some important decisions being made soon though. They can't keep this standard where they have to make content suck for the kr players, then throw the leftovers in a gachapon

[silver ore]

Like content can't depend on fomo to stay relevant, especially if it's a gacha that runs for 2 weeks out of a year. Content can't be held back or psuedo censored because kr players dont want good rewards from running hard dungeons. Could adding new weapons, armors, instruments be overpowered in some cases? Probably, but you also have overpowered gacha armors, and overpowered enchants already in gachapon that makes very-hard mode glen bearna irrelevant, and it's not even released yet.

But when it comes down to it, every other region has the opposite views than the kr playerbase. There needs to be more grindable worthwhile content.

[silver ore]

I don't mean to tie this into my other feedback post about fomo, but players have begged Nexon, and Devcat for over a literal decade for old gachapon outfits to be reintroduced back into the game. Dozens of discontinued outfits, items, patterns FOR outfits, chat stickers, spirit weapon effects, and weapon appearance scrolls are lost forever due to being phased out by bi-monthly gachapons.

This is unacceptable where mabinogi emphasizes on customization, when that customization was only allowed to be obtained in again 2 weeks out of the entire year.

A solution to this would be to simply update fishing location drop pools, and to update Iria treasure hunting to have the same dynamics as these following events: https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Exploration_Treasures_Event_(disambiguation)

Unlike treasure hunting right now, the drop pools during these events were vastly expanded to include exclusive and discontinued items from gachapons that were permanently removed from the game. This means that items Nexon or devcat cannot make money from were reintroduced as permanant content players can work for as they play via treasure hunting!

Other mmo's like Runescape owe alot of their success to these "Distractions and Diversion" in the form of treasure hunting as treasure trails.

There is no feasible reason why this content is permanently held back from the players. Nexon isnt making money off it it, but it can help sustain player counts by giving players more options outside of combat to interact with. The more reasons you keep players playing, working, interacting with the game, stimulation, the more money they spend potentially in the long term. It is not rocket science, you can keep players busy for years with discontinued content, but it's just sitting there.

Again, you don't even have to be into combat content. You can reintroduce so much content into the game via fishing and exploration already. You can be that newbie who finds a treasure chest in connus, and it has a fancy outfit, or a stitched mask, and feel like it's the coolest thing ever!

[silver ore]

Like I'm trying my best here to put my experiences with mabi out there. The sheer number of choices you have in this game are overwhelming, but extremely fascinating and charming. But it's being held back from doing things so much better for its community.

[coral mason]

Agreed, me saying we'd need that and buffs to the obsolete talents seems have sparked a bit of a reaction 😅 I'm all for Demo versions but I strongly feel it alone won't be enough to give the talents presence. Demo is a really really achievable goal.

[silver ore]

Like at this point if you're laser focused on power scaling, you're in for a rough time because kr is setting up talents to one-up the previous one by alot. Maplestory style.

I'm personally more concerned about drawing people in and staying. Giving someone who either just started or rejoined or has been here for years a million different things to do.

[coral mason]

Unfortunately power scaling affects the choices people make, if the talent doesn't offer anything then people are not going to show much interest, it's pretty evident by how many people have left EK, it's why I mentioned mechanics, you can make a talent offer more than damage in this way 🙂

[silver ore]

Ek is bad because nexon made it bad fundamentally

It is your very standard rotational cd gameplay, like a WoW class. It is very bad, and incompatible for mabi

[coral mason]

TBH when I came back I saw a lot of different things to do because I used to main gunner and ninja and close combat and lance, and it was all fun and games till arcana got ranked and started just using that :D... it'd be great if we could use multiple talents again...

[silver ore]

Honestly if ek handled better than being instill, damage hotkey1, hotkey 2, hotkey 3 repeat, it would be better for lots of people.

[coral mason]

I feel a lot of the people that stay are fashion players 8 ) but yeah reviving the obsolete talents would be cool

[fast star]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to be the case for arcana in general. I've only used AS, but it plays exactly like this.

The reason people don't use EK as much as AS and DD is because it's simply less efficient - less bang for the buck.

Personally, I think Arcana is the most obvious indication that mabi could use an overhaul of fundamental combat mechanics (I'm talking lower level than even talent mechanics).

They were obviously designed as bandaids to their applicable talents - they fix the most glaring issues with the talents in question (which is why EK was mid IMO - close combat didn't have any glaring issues). They're the best, most accessible bandaids we've recieved yet. But as far as talent design goes, that's a little uninspired, IMO, and will result in every talent starting to blend together more and more.

I have some hope that the devs have realised this, given that they put additional arcanas on indefinite delay, and left off with a knight arcana, of all things. (What even defines a lance, when all of the endgame weapons have piercing like a lance? Lance charge and limited movement. So cool!) However, I'm probably wrong about that, lol.

They present arcana as a mixture of two different flavors, and I think that's a good idea, but it only works if there's enough distinction between the flavors of talents to begin with (increasingly there isn't, if there has ever been), and then they must be careful not to dilute any of them too much.

[snow sage]

To draw people in to the game requires way more than weapons at this time, I get what you're saying, that new weapons may bring people to do more content. However, what I've been saying and adding onto this point, is the idea of fixing drop rates and reworking the classes that are currently obsolete with the addition of weapons. Weapons are FINE, but you need encouragement for people to strive for them and currently that encouragement is taken away when they see limits, and our current reward system, along with how older... untouched talents stack up to the main talents.

Personally, if they implemented weapons tomorrow, and kept the same drop rates? I wouldn't even bother, the rates are way too low, and it is more likely for the other talents to underperform as they lack corresponding Arcana's. The issue with the lack of people involved with endgame content, is far more broad than what is suggested here, as there is no 1 solution, but many issues that require attention.

[silver ore]

@true bobcat I mentioned something similar with community events a while back, where you had the option to choose chat stickers, shamala medals, and possibly other non-impactful prizes. There are alot of items in mabinogi that will never be seen ever again, that have had only one run and have not been seen since. There are probably dozens of chat stickers from generation quests, or events that will never be seen again. Limited shamala medals for npc's that havent been seen since 2020 and before. Flashy metal dyes, never to be seen ever again. Exclusive fashion prizes from really old gachapons that could be used in permanent content, never seen again.

If the devs can turn an event no one liked, like the guild raid event into permanent content (The RE:assemble update), why can't we have a permanant version of this https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Exploration_Treasures_Event_(disambiguation) event that has seasonal or perhaps a regularly updated drop table? Why can't fishing drop pools for the fishing boat be updated to have more diverse treasure finds?

This kind of content would get players invested in the game more if they're looking for something to do other than combat content. The great news is that this content doesn't require a new engine, it doesn't require collab or intellectual property right contracts, or any sort of beaucracy. It's already in the game, and no one's making money on it. Not even KR is making money off it, and they're not likely sitting on it for it to be used in a later gachapon either.

It is a total waste, and it could be put to better use to keep players invested in mabinogi.

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Romantic_Evening_Dress_(Type_1)

Take this outfit as an example of many, it hasn't been seen in circulation in events or gachapon since 2012. This could be permanent content found as tailoring patterns in treasure chests among other old, and never recirculated gachapon items. There are many outfits, or outfit pieces like this one from various gachapons or events that have not been seen in almost 5 ~ 12 years.

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Category:Speech_Bubble_Stickers

A list of chat bubble stickers. Only a small handful are available via premium advanced play. The rest are gone forever once used. This might not even be the complete list either.

Almost every shamala transformation medal for npc's havent been seen since the last samhain event, and it was a one-time run. Mabinogi is supposed to present you with alot of customization, and yet half of the customization is locked away forever or gate-kept behind an annual 2-week gachapon in bits and pieces.

As I've mentioned in earlier posts, this poses a problem for gear progression too, as gachapons for every region except for the Korean server are now the only thing making content both invalidated and validated as a band-aid fix. There could be more ways for us to make use of goal oriented content to make new weapons, or armors, or to find something to keep us busy, like treasure hunting content. But there is nothing being brought to the table.

[true bobcat]

These points perhaps are better fit for a separate feedback thread since they aren't directly related to the topic of Demo/Ruin Weapons (but I like these ideas a lot!!) This is looking like three separate thoughts:

• Community Team Events (that come from myself and Elebon)
• Featuring older returning items like the ones you've listed
• Reuse of contents, or cyclical contents based on previous events
• Demo/Ruin Weapons

[silver ore]

Basically, yes, expanding on the demolition/ruin series weapons, (possibly adding more bard instruments too). Utilizing underused content more, and creating more ways to involve players with the game.