Player/Suits should create Polluted H2O

[serene haven]

As the title suggests especially with the hygiene system in place I feel the character should make "polluted" H2O.

Kinda doesn't make since all we eat and drink disappears. Which the systems in place.

[hexed shuttle]

showers

[serene haven]

Yes im aware of showers i was thinking more so toilet like a liquid waste tank in the suit.

[wheat umbra]

Would be a nice simplification of the toilets idea

But how would it work when outside the suit?

Since the eventual goal devs want to push players to is making a livable station and not use your suit while in it

[pine forge]

The only way to make it work would be to have a piss meter, and I doubt anyone would want that

Although I guess you could add polluted water steam to the waste tank and breathing just like we output CO2 already so long player water levels are over 0%

[serene haven]

Run it as an inverse shower icon, make it increase while out the suit kinda like how the shower need increases while in it.

[hexed shuttle]

both are solved with the same structure, the shower

[serene haven]

Which would work great because it means the shower would be needed in and out of suit overtime rather than be useless in a suit free base

[wheat umbra]

Dunno, that sounds complicated for new players and doesn't seem like a good approach

It's hard for new players and irrelevant when you already know about it

[wheat umbra]

Not what the devs want, that would make a suit required even with a fully sustainable base

[wheat umbra]

Oh, so shower could also solve it. Not as bad then

[pine forge]

In short I believe OP wants a way to get back some of the water the player consumes, just like we get back all of the O2 we consume as CO2 back which can be recycled with plants
The bigger issue is that while nice, it's not really all that useful, by the time you can recycle polluted water you probably already can just make more H2O than you can drink

[wheat umbra]

Not really, that water could be incredible useful on hot planets, specially Venus

[pine forge]

Except you need charcoal to recycle it, so you already have a hydroponics running, so you can already make vol with biomass and oxygen with the hydroponics

[serene haven]

I wouldnt necessarily want a 1:1 return but some recovery

[pine forge]

While it would be interesting for a moment to recycle water you drink, and food you eat (as fertilizer)
In the end it will be just a marging of error compared to actual production

[astral badger]

I like the idea of a waste liquid tank for polluted water in the suit. When not in the suit...

1. Add a toilet to your base (new device)
2. Add a warning icon when the player needs to pee (like the shower icon now)
3. Once the need to pee gets too much the player pees their pants and you get a puddle of polluted water in your base

Can be relieved by either using the toilet, or putting your suit on.

[pine forge]

Elona+ has shown that it's usually not a good idea to add pee mechanics

it will attract fetishists

[astral badger]

It will attract more player to the game... cool

[wheat umbra]

A single charcoal can go a long way in water recovery, specially in multiplayer

[serene haven]

THIS RIGHT HERE IS SIMILAR, tho id make it if it gose to long create a icon that can be removed by shower only

[wheat umbra]

Yeah, but that would make possible even harder planets and initial conditions

You could always just ignore and dump it if you desire

[wheat umbra]

I like this approach

[pine forge]

I don't follow

[wheat umbra]

3 is funny too lol

[wheat umbra]

Is that a game?

[pine forge]

A mod for a game

Basically Elona finished development many years ago, and Elona+ was a fan project that kept it going

[astral badger]

tbf... with a toilet you could potentially add something that lets you pipe the player waste into the composter for a boost in fert & vol output.

[wheat umbra]

Plants take time to scale and grow. By getting your first charcoal you would be able to recicle your water and survive longer enough to develop your plants

[astral badger]

In all seriousness though ... in the mid-late game, hunger/thirst are already just an annoying distraction from building/engineering rather than anything that adds meaningfully to the gameplay.

If this were going to make it in, I'd want to see an overhaul to hunger, thirst and hydroponics to make it less obnoxious in the later game.

[wheat umbra]

I think something like Plants and nutrition is a good balance

Significantly more water and food, but it takes very long to actually starve or die from dehydration

Slower plant growth also makes genetics a lot more desirable

And makes the need for big greenhouses, Wich are pressurized spaces you need to control

As well as plant water evaporation making possible to take back some of the water if you want to commit to it

[astral badger]

I've played that and it still doesn't feel quite right that when you do need food you have to eat soooo much more.

It feels like P&N + make food take a lot more resources to make but also give back a lot more when you eat so you still only eat one tin of soup or 25% bread to fill up.. but making that soup or bread cost a lot more plants.

[wheat umbra]

Very good observation

[pine forge]

Maybe they could add higher tiers of food and drinks that consome a lot more than they are worth but let you go over 100%
Think of a food item that costs as much as 1000% worth of food but lets you eat it until you are at 500% food, similar to how you can go to 125% water

[wheat umbra]

Maybe you should make it a new suggestion thread for further discussion and to not be lost in here

[pine forge]

rather than make the abundant and infinite food even more efficient, a higher tier food upgrade should let you interact less with the mechanic instead of more, since it is just a survival tax

[wheat umbra]

Would be nice to have more animals and a reason for a dedicated kitchen for better food preparation or drinks

[serene haven]

Could always make it a difficulty toggle for place choice

[wheat umbra]

Actually, I think that would be better for new players

Since starvation and thirst would be slower, giving them more time to set up their bases

Considering food would also be given a nutrition boost, their initial food and water supplies should be enough for quite a long while

[serene haven]

I also find the "recovery" aspect means brutal could start with less water initially muhahaha

[wheat umbra]

Yup!

Maybe a full canister instead of the big tank

[serene haven]

Rn im thinking pw and biomater are created as waste so its not as punishing early game and gives fertilizer later

[wheat umbra]

Maybe biomatter from using toilet and suit would only produce polluted water

So early toilet would produce biomatter+polluted water, Wich would be great for early plants

[serene haven]

Bio matter = charcoal,
So you can filter PW earlier.

[wheat umbra]

Now that's some Mark Watney

You could also compost it for volatiles and fertilizer

[stoic nexus]

toilet should cost asstraloy for game balance, it would make early game too easy

[hexed shuttle]

asstraloy

real

[serene haven]

Well it also depends on your recovery value

[stoic nexus]

true, in that case hot sauce should also be added for flavor and throughput

[stoic sonnet]

Moisture collector? Water evaporates. Having player visit a toilet regularly might be too much (hunger and thirst are already obnoxious late game), so just abuse the 'vapor' and increase atmo's humidity from player (and from plants). Add an easy way to collect that vapor from rooms without having to pump gas in/out.

And if you don't collect the moisture:

• Prolonged exposure to high humidity can have detrimental health effects of both player and plants.
• Too much vapor for too long can condense into puddles and short circuit your equipment.

[serene haven]

What about food and drink later game is obnoxious?

[serene haven]

See above message

[sage pawn]

Food and water are really only tedious in late game because of how often you need to stop to replenish and how easy both are to obtain. If the replenishment system was overhauled it might be extendable to end game.

More complicated foods and meals, more benefits to better foods, and most important much longer duration between eating for better foods.