Palestine flag should be allowed

[native geode]

I think we should allow the palestine flag, and not have it removed

[mellow willow]

Let's go, politics thread 2.0

I think it should not

[sick ridge]

whats up with all the paid israel promoters

[blissful rune]

Is this not the status quo?

[mellow willow]

Neither flag should be allowed

[native geode]

it is, but people might want to change it

[plucky gust]

i don't see why politics of any kind are allowed if y'all don't want to have a political channel

[timid minnow]

pre-emptive <@&631915156854538260>

[plucky gust]

what does this server have to do with politics anyway?

[native geode]

as T-dark mentioned people should go to this forum instead. So I thought to create this as I believe it should be allowed

[static nest]

My current proposal is to not allow adding any national flags as icon borders, this wouldn't include the ferris holding icons

[sick ridge]

what about ferrisbenin

?

[native geode]

I'm for the palestinian flag

[pallid flint]

"We don't want more politics!" Puts a flag of a nation currently at war as the server icon.

[sick ridge]

ferrisbenin must stay

[blissful rune]

puts the palestinian flag in ferris hand as an icon

[full blade]

"Neutrality" in the face of oppression is siding with the oppressor.

[willow obsidian]

Can we have the union jack

[static nest]

I think specifically the border part is what caused today's incident

[dense sorrel]

only if they're currently a part of some controversy?

[half harness]

remove the english bit first /j

[mellow willow]

You could say every country is part of a controversy

[plucky gust]

i do not see why any flag at all should be part of the logo

[static nest]

I additionally propose flipping all the server icons so ferris is facing left so you can see the held things

[full blade]

This is the same bullshit people say for the pride flags & for the same reason that's ignored so should this.

[acoustic mountain]

"We don't want more politics!" is a misquote

the server rules do not prohibit political discussions

[cyan jungle]

For future reference, my current stance is that the server icon should not contain any topic that our rules forbid discussing.

The LGBT flags are allowed: one can discuss the flags and whether they should be in a server icon without being queerphobic and thus running afoul of the rules.

The Palestine flag is not allowed, because I cannot imagine any way to discuss that topic without running face-first into the "no politics" rule.

[blissful rune]

how would the message change if we went from flag as border to holding a smol flag

[pallid flint]

I disagree. No flags. Only Ferris.

[muted cobalt]

Politics and programming dont mix that well. Ask for a politics channel if you wish to discuss the war. The flag is just going to constantly cause issues in all other channels.

[dense sorrel]

tbf the pride flags also spark heated discussion when they're rolled

[cyan jungle]

We're not far from forbidding them, though. We more or less allow them iff the moderators looking decide that it's Fine, and that's rare

[half night]

You’re mixing two things that have no correlation:
• Some staff members picking icons and having political stances.
• Us not wanting to bother with political talk here.

And yes, both are true.

[static nest]

To be honest I'm not so much concerned with the messages people are reading out of the icons so much as that having them as borders has made it so apparent to everyone that everyone has decided today is their stand

[cyan jungle]

And some of those discussions are reasonable and good! Which is why we should consider the flags permissible as server icons. Good, rule-abiding discussion, can come of it.

[plucky gust]

No politics means no politics. Why the hell is the server picking a political stance if no politics are allowed?

[sick ridge]

melo casually accepting PRs

[half night]

Again you’re mixing.

We can express, you can express if we let you.

[acoustic mountain]

political topics get mentioned in passing in low-energy conversations all the time, and there would be no sense in prohibiting those in the rules even if the moderators and other server members are fine with them

[half night]

To paraphrase.

[mellow willow]

"if we let you" lmao

[blissful rune]

well if we got to keep the flags, just not as borders because thats very obvious and attracts a lot of attention that would be nice imo

[half night]

And we can’t let you if topics explode like in that thread.

[cyan jungle]

(@daring rock reminds me that we actually do allow such discussion when not heated. Apologies for being unclear. I can't remember an example of a non-heated politics discussion, so I oversimplified the statement)

[static nest]

Like we can handle one or two people popping in to be like "the server icon is X now?" Handling it every 5 seconds is too much

[sick ridge]

we do?

[half night]

(I overlooked quite a lot of politics talk in offtopic.)

[acoustic mountain]

there's been a bunch in #offtopic and a bunch more in #couch-corner-general, you just don't hear about them because they're typically not a problem

[plucky gust]

that's a really weird stance to have. Pushing your own political opinions and then suppressing everyone else?

[high rover]

Jeez

[dense sorrel]

would it be useful to have an announcement channel for background information each time the icon changes?

[native geode]

a bunch more in #couch-corner-general is a bit of an unfair comparison

[static nest]

That would seem to make the issue somewhat worse

[dawn mulch]

i think a post clarifying the position of the server could go a long way. then you can just point people to that instead of having to let the same convo happen over and over

[pallid flint]

The server is very inclusive, as long as your stance on world politics matches the mods'.

[half night]

That’s quite a reading you have. Taking the remark on moderating effort going through the roof and then mincing those words as suppressing.

[static nest]

Specifically the announcement part

[waxen garden]

less "if your opinions are good" and more "a mod that actually has some spoons is willing"

[dense sorrel]

Point is, presenting one's opinion on a subject is inviting discussion of the subject

[acoustic mountain]

this is a distortion of facts – political opinions in disagreement with those of moderators are not being suppressed, they are being moderated for the amount of disruption they cause

[wide canopy]

It makes sense, but (gneraly) they tend to me nontheless
Or if they aren't simeone may join in and make it heated.

This is a vary chill and cool server but I've seen others not that much bigger have political talks explode out of almost nothing and it only takes one bad apple imo to turn a polite political discussion into a mess
This is what I know and my opinion though, you guys prob know more them me

[plucky gust]

Really? That seems very counter-intuitive to me, considering putting up a country's flag as a border will only cause for more moderation effort to be required.

[high rover]

You were obviously being deliberately provocative

[cyan jungle]

I wish to remind everyone present that this, just like every other internet community subject to moderation, is by definition and by construction a space where a small handful of people, who are not voted in and who are only accountable to each other, unilaterally enforce whatever rules they choose to in whatever way they choose to.

In other words, this server is an oligarchy. Just like most moderated communities. You should not be surprised by the fact you will find authoritarian decision making if you look, it is quite literally baked into the foundations of the system.

[native geode]

yeah I would imagine it's more of a "these people are trusted so I doubt they say something bad" and less of "everyone shall bow down"

[waxen garden]

we kinda underestimated how much it would blow up, especially because it was added like a year ago 💀

[blissful rune]

what are spoons and why are they so scarce, i can share some, i have lots

[acoustic mountain]

this is demonstrably false on account of Serentty not having been banned

[half night]

And as i mentioned: We had political talks here, including under my supervision in offtopic. And when everyone can keep a level head, there’s no problem, even where opinions and stances oppose.

[high rover]

Lars did call for her to be banned though

We'll see where the line is

[cyan jungle]

We don't necessarily ban people based solely on what other people call for

[waxen garden]

she hasn't broken a rule as far as we have seen

[blissful rune]

not really, I said that if I made the rules I'd ban israel supporters, but I don't make them, so I didn't call for it.

[broken cedar]

i don’t understand why people are being so pissy about the icon

[static nest]

For the record the two people that did get banned were undone, I don't believe anyone has actually been banned today for anything relating to this

[mellow willow]

It's too political

[broken cedar]

it is not

[waxen garden]

I'd check audit log but I need to keep my cat from eating my snacks

anyone can check it tho

[mellow willow]

This is a programming server

[acoustic mountain]

why is that a bad thing?

[pallid flint]

Because the icon has no place to be there. How is it relevant to the Rust community?

[mellow willow]

Because this is not the place

[plucky gust]

well I'm happy you're not in any position of power here, because it's a really weird stance pushing for very specific political opinions and discarding everyone else just because it beautifully aligns with your particular opinion

[mellow willow]

Yup, what they said

[broken cedar]

showing support for a country that’s suffering from a genocidal campaign is not too political for anything

[acoustic mountain]

why is it not?

[cyan jungle]

Before you continue, I'm going to point out this message does not constitute reasonable discussion (by definition, since it makes a claim but does not contain any reasons) and could thus only possibly fan the flames. Please stop.

[plucky gust]

there's a no politics rule for a reason, and I think the moderators should be subject to the same

[half night]

No, this is a programming-themed private community server.

[acoustic mountain]

there is no such rule

[marble quartz]

I am mostly sitting this one out, but I will comment that the only people I saw banned today seemed to be on the pro-Palestine side. So I do think that this server does seem to allow some diversity of opinion, regardless of some of my other objections to how this has been handled.

[plucky gust]

why the hell is a programming-related server pushing politics all of a sudden

[blissful rune]

Well I'm in the habit of surrounding myself with people that don't support genocide, if you think thats weird, then that's on you.

[dense sorrel]

there was, at least

[waxen garden]

yeah and those were accidental and have been reverted

[cyan jungle]

Why does the fact it isn't relevant to the Rust programming lanuguage matter?

[acoustic mountain]

well, there isn't now

[half night]

We were always pushing politics.

[full blade]

Idk how you possibly come to the conclusion that one of those discussions is political & the other one isn't. "Yeah they're debating whether or not queer people should literally stay in the closet but they're not using slurs so guess it's not political". My existence as a queer person is inherently political nothing is apolitical. Furthermore I think a blanket ban on politics is more harmful than good. A person that is vegan but still eats bacon is better for the environment than a person who still primarily eats meat. Having a no politics rule while still explicitly taking a stance on certain topics like is already done with LGBTQ issues is better than standing for nothing. It is not enough to not be fascist you have to be anti fascist. Hypocrisy is better than spinelessness.

[half night]

Like, leave the gays at peace. That’s a political stance.

[marble quartz]

Okay, that finally explains it. I was kind of baffled at the time.

[cyan jungle]

Have you not seen the LGBT flags?

[broken cedar]

the server is allowed to push whatever it wants to push

[half night]

I know this is an advanced concept to y’all, but…

[static nest]

Can we please get back to the icons

[waxen garden]

sorry we've been pretty overworked today

[wide canopy]

Everything can be traced back to politics tbh

Fwik

[plucky gust]

I have, that's my bad because I wrote "all of a sudden" and only then realized that that's wrong

[pallid flint]

Because it's just stirring the pot for no reason.

[plucky gust]

and my discord is operating at seconds per frame because electron + linux = bad

[static nest]

I think we can make some constructive modifications while preserving the expressiveness

[cyan jungle]

For the sake of avoiding a derail of a thread that's already struggling to stay on topic, I will just reply by pointing out I was reminded that political non-heated discussion is in fact allowed

[wide canopy]

Can we have a romanian flag as the next server icon flag border thinfy
(Or jsut included in the server icon I dunno)

[mellow willow]

Puting up a flag in support of one side in an active war is very political

[wide canopy]

Pritty pleaseeeeeee 🥺 👉 👈

[cyan jungle]

Why are you of the opinion it is for no reason?

[sick ridge]

i vote for keep it exactly the same

0 changes

[wide canopy]

Won't the icon jsut chsnge tomorow though sicne it changed daily nevertheless?

[sick ridge]

yes, but the pool

[waxen garden]

ideally we'd make the flag express anti-genocide without including countries, but I don't have the artistic talent for that

[waxen garden]

if ferris doesn't break

[sick ridge]

then you get a superman and its still political and the israelis still think its about them

[blissful rune]

If "stirring the pot" is just Zionists getting mad then I don't see the issue.

[plucky gust]

I've always have been under the belief that politics do not have any place in programming communities - at best in separate channels with restrictions and moderation

[waxen garden]

true

[daring rock]

By the way

[visual cypress]

well the thing is that

have you heard of a company called palintir

[full blade]

Literally. Every time I see some chud on twitter get mad about rust being LGBTQ friendly I smile

[broken cedar]

then you can join communities that share this belief

[mellow willow]

Fuck them

[visual cypress]

that uses the field of programming for total evil

[muted cobalt]

"bad" is subjective in politics like any matter. it pollutes discussion. allowing political discourse is one thing, but server pictures like this are just going to cause discussions.

for playing the devil's advocate, where do you draw the line? is taking side of a political party would be fine? maybe political flags aswell. since a lot of people in this server are american, how about a democratic party flag or republican party flag! that sounds so cool.

[pallid flint]

Again, not relevant to the community IMO. I don't think that flag represents the general Rust community, I don't see a reason why it's there besides causing unrest.

[daring rock]

I'm having an unrelated shitty day and would like to apologize for the two misdirected bans I did earlier

[timid minnow]

I can assure you people will speak up because of assumed subtext

[pallid flint]

I'm not a Zionist, but I don't support Palestine either.

[plucky gust]

well good luck finding anything big, because people don't care enough (and just join pre-existing ones) until it personally affects them

[visual cypress]

they also employ rust programmers and work with israel so

[waxen garden]

subtext is always a pain

[visual cypress]

i think it is rather relevant actually

[acoustic mountain]

well, it informs Palestinian members that the moderators of this server will not be complacent in their mistreatment by server members, enabling them to be informed of the safety of the online space they're in

[plucky gust]

what is total evil specifically

[static nest]

I mean we could just remove all the server icons

[wide canopy]

Thst's ok, we all have shitty days <3
I don't know if yoy have already (I presume yes) but it pribably would be nice to apologize to those people too

Never the less, it's probably alright bc we are all human and we all make mistakes

[plucky gust]

if they work with people who are from israel, that's fine, because the people aren't the ones which did something wrong

[full blade]

Not trying to beat you while you're down but apologise to them. One of them is Palestinian I think from what they said & yeah... being banned right after saying "I feel so welcome here" is sure to have broken some trust

[pallid flint]

What about the members who are on the other side? They're not welcome?

[waxen garden]

[cyan jungle]

If they do, at least we'll be in a position to ask them exactly why they feel that a general anti-genocide symbol is bad. I'd be curious to see their responses, I struggle to imagine they could possibly be good.

[daring rock]

Yeah, gonna. Working slowly because phone.

[plucky gust]

if they work with the government, that's something that IS bad, or at least I believe so given how the government is behaving

[visual cypress]

no i meant the military of the state

[daring rock]

I am sure, yeah.

[static nest]

Just saying it is an option

[wide canopy]

I vote for this or to have the icon contian [insert thing I'm biased towords here]

[plucky gust]

I'd say the same thing for any company that works with the CCP

[cyan jungle]

Let the server icon be a black circle forever

[ivory verge]

(for reference, my opinion currently is that it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion about the war in Gaza due to the fog of war and deliberate disinformation from both sides; thus, we shouldn't try to push a position, as the discussions that result from that position will be bad)

[blissful rune]

Why would we welcome such despicable people?

[wide canopy]

That's fair, wish you a better rest of ur day :3

[plucky gust]

absolutely agree, i'm trying to type despite my discord operating at seconds per frame currently

i'll try restarting lmfao

give me a sec

[mellow willow]

Ever heard of separate art from the artist? Despicable people can still have productive programming discussions

[ivory verge]

same tbh; I think Discord is getting worse by the day lol

[half night]

The specific flag aside, just in general, because this confusion comes up a lot:

We are not the »general Rust community«. The »general Rust community« in the form of the official Discord server recently shut down. We’re just some randos having a rando community of Rust devs. We do not represent the general community, just the ones who vibe with us randos. There’s more rando Rust communities out there, too, like the Bevy or Rusqlite discord. And there’s the official Zulip.

[dense sorrel]

even if one country is a clear aggressor in a war (not saying it is the case here) that doesn't mean its citizens are evil

[cyan jungle]

And if they manage to have such discussions, we will never find out they are despicable and they'll get to stay. Problem solved.

[sick ridge]

we dont really do that here

[plucky gust]

restarted, still absolutely awful but mayyybe a bit better?

[native geode]

in this most extreme case, you would want to have a programming conversation with hitler? 💀

[mellow willow]

Bro I was just gonna mention him

[blissful rune]

Never said that Israelis are evil (in general, they aren't), just the people supporting the Occupying Entity, Israeli or not.

[half night]

In that, that’s why this server’s called »community«, to disambiguate from the old »official« one.

[mellow willow]

Yes, I would

[sick ridge]

hitler wasnt a programmer

[full blade]

There is countless information from third parties that suggest otherwise. To see shit like this 3 fuck years into this is utterly disappointing

[mellow willow]

Then I would spit on him after we finish

[half night]

And non-despicable people can achieve the same.

[wide canopy]

Imo both sides have done "good" and "bad" things, and we should reallt just strive for to have the war end and have as many civilians live good happy lives, regardless of which of the two entities id in control for their region.

[cyan jungle]

Daily reminder that not all inhabitants of Israel support the occupation of Gaza. You can live in a country you dislike. Consider, for an example westerners may be more familiar with, how there are Americans who dislike Trump

[visual cypress]

house md is not real, you dont need to tolerate assholes actually

[static nest]

We have devolved once again into just talking about the war

[mellow willow]

But you are potentially leaving out helpful people

[sick ridge]

how many of you are israeli

[frank plank]

personal thoughts: This is, first and foremost, a community of people. It happens to be around a programming topic, but the first priority is the safety and comfort of the people we've (the mods and the community at large by choosing to be here) elected to include in this community. Pretending that inclusion here is solely based on technical merit or desire to be around Rust is nonsense.

[sick ridge]

im curious

[native geode]

why would I want to get advice from hitler, or the ceo of anduril or something

[mellow willow]

My friend is in an insane transphobic. I'm still friends with him

We just don't talk about it

[blissful rune]

bro are you ok

[cyan jungle]

You are also leaving out people with a higher change than average of dragging down the mood or making server members feel unwelcome

[native geode]

bruh

[half night]

So what, we’re 8 billion people, not all of them are gonna be friends.

[wide canopy]

This is a little inevatible when you talk about the politics of a place where war is happening imo
Especiallt since the war is so heated

[mellow willow]

He's a cool guy

[native geode]

bruh

[dense sorrel]

some of very nice people I know in other servers live there IIRC

[ivory verge]

Intrinsically the discussion of the server icon being allowed hinges on whether we want to support the discussion of the topic. If we don't want to support the discussion of the topic, we need to remove the icon, and that's the answer to the thread

[waxen garden]

no let's not ask that

[broken cedar]

performative neutrality

[native geode]

ban on this member perhaps 😭

[mellow willow]

Wait wait

[ivory verge]

Though. I also know that the mods have basically come to that conclusion

[mellow willow]

My bad

[waxen garden]

I do not wish for people to start getting harassed

[sick ridge]

but i mean like, here

[mellow willow]

I did not mean that the transphobia was cool

[acoustic mountain]

Israelis have much less reason to expect that they will be unwelcome in an online space on account of the lack of mainstream media pushing a narrative of them being to blame for the conflict

[mellow willow]

Sorry sorry

[sick ridge]

theres only like a few israelis in this server and most of the ones i know arent present

[mellow willow]

Everything besides that

[cyan jungle]

This is fine, honestly. Just keep in mind one famous quote:

If the bar welcomes nazis, it's a nazi bar
I am NOT accusing you in any way. I also don't know you and cannot know whether your beliefs are intolerant or otherwise unpleasant. I would, however, suggest you be careful about the influence he has on you.

[broken cedar]

you are who you surround yourself with. if you accommodate a transphobe, you are a transphobe. there’s no talking your way out of guilt

[static nest]

To answer this I think the only reasonable solution is to remove all the icons that are specific

[static nest]

That is including all the flags

[plucky gust]

The thing is that this isn't very accurate, it's more often the case that these people are misinformed, and in general spreading any kind of politics shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, whether that'd be ongoing wars or gender/sexuality oppression or anything like that

At best those should be reserved for separate channels and there shouldn't be any political opinions spread by the server itself, because that inherently creates a heavy bias. People supporting the other side aren't "evil", they range from either of differing opinion or misinformed (due to propaganda or etc.). Best thing to do is to provide information, not to propel your particular bias.

[acoustic mountain]

there shouldn't be any political opinions spread by the server itself, because that inherently creates a heavy bias
why is "inherently creating a heavy bias" a bad thing?

[muted cobalt]

is this the entire argument? like "either you support politics, or you are xyz."

Like the server could simply... not provide a platform for politics. whether its people from the left or right. there is already way too many political platforms.

[half night]

Don’t worry, we didn’t take it as such.

[dawn mulch]

imo the reasonable solution is to grow a spine and clearly state what you think
don't let people dance around "subtext"

[plucky gust]

because it leads to an echo chamber

[acoustic mountain]

no?

[high rover]

Yeah I'd agree with that

Just own it

[full blade]

They're a minority. Israel in it's current state is more comparable to the early American settlements responsible for the genocide of the natives than they are to modern day America. "Nuance" isn't neutral.

[plucky gust]

it quite literally does - if people of a certain opinion aren't allowed, this means you get less information from people with that opinion, meaning only the approved opinion resonates. That creates an echo chamber

[static nest]

I do think this is an option, but I'm doubtful it all us mods would rather implement this, or just remove the icons

[half night]

Yes, but also no. There’s a lot of nuance. As there are degrees of transphobeness or other character-flawness. And different people have different tolerance levels depending on their own experiences. I’m not here to judge people’s friend circles as long as i don’t observe them taking on their bad habits or enabling them.

[cyan jungle]

They're a minority
Possibly true, but [citation needed]

[dawn mulch]

fair enough

[sick ridge]

echo chamber good

[full blade]

A new Pew Research Center survey finds that 39% of Israelis say Israel’s military response against Hamas in Gaza has been about right, while 34% say it has not gone far enough and 19% think it has gone too far.

[acoustic mountain]

this presumes there are only two possible opinions, which is empirically untrue

[sick ridge]

It is not our job to create a space which is not an echo chamber.

It is our job to maintain a space which is comfortable, and yes, that means sometimes being an echo chamber with respect to some topics.
- a mod

[plucky gust]

here's a more extreme example - take flat earthers. They have communities and discord servers, and I've been on some to check the environment per se - they quite obviously (judging from their message history) do not allow globe earthers on their communities, creating an echo chamber

[visual cypress]

well the thing is. theyre wrong

sometimes you just need to like. have opinions on if things are right and wrong

[wraith raft]

I disagree because the palestine flag isn't being used as a political/patriotic/national symbol as much as it is being used to express standing in solidarity with people undergoing genocide

[visual cypress]

you cant have a neutral space

[half night]

By the way

[full blade]

Reality is indeed an echo chamber for reality

[half night]

Oh, wrong ping.

[cyan jungle]

On the other hand, allow me to remind everyone that the paradox of tolerance exists. Not all ideas are equally worthy of being allowed. One must evaluate the danger of falling into an echo chamber against the danger of letting terrible people influence their worldview.

[half night]

Unintentional, bad discord UI having barely any safe to click area.

[plucky gust]

easiest example of two possible options: israel vs palestine

server picked palestine based on various evidence. That doesn't mean they're wrong, but that immediately creates a bias because it reflects the server supports palestine, so how do you think people of israel feel (i.e. they're misinformed)?

[half night]

Lemme try again.

[wraith raft]

you can believe what you want and have any stance but if we look only at the facts, the whole ordeal since It's beginning 70+ years ago has been mostly one-sided

[half night]

By the way.

For how long has this topic here been »Politics 2.0« instead of the actual, ya know, topic? iirc we also landed on some kinda conclusion somewhere hundreds of messages ago.

Just sayin’.

[waxen garden]

ye that was the intent

[half night]

’cause i don’t have the spare brain energy to keep having my eyes here.

[plucky gust]

the topic is inherently political

[blissful rune]

well being an israeli citizen and supporting israels war crimes and genocide aren't the same group of people though, you can be one without the other.

[plucky gust]

we're discussing if the flag should be allowed

[daring rock]

I am loving that a better me than exists at the moment is being quoted

[half night]

Not what i meant, but that’s fine.

[plucky gust]

that is true

[peak vessel]

i think they should probably accept the difference in viewpoint (if one even exists). It's not the only tacit stance taken by the server through it's branding and rules

[plucky gust]

sorry, I might be misreading some of y'all because it's almost midnight here and I'm tired, + I can't polish my messages because discord hates me and is operating at negative fps at this point

[blissful rune]

so then the point becomes, "won't someone think of the poor people who support genocide and feel bad because others think that's bad?"

[plucky gust]

what
i'm confused

[cyan jungle]

I would appreciate a link, but I wil accept the citation.

Wikipedia tells me that Israel currently has about 10M inhabitants. 19% of that is 1.9M. Any statement that automatically attacks 1.9M people over the crimes of other people that they have little choice but to coexist with (some people could definitely move countries, but that is a massive ordeal and chances are most can't) is an excessively extreme statement.

[acoustic mountain]

no, those are not two possible opinions
here is an assortment of beliefs of the war in Gaza that can be held by an environment that deliberately excludes the broad category of "pro-Israel" people:

• "the citizens of Israel are deeply misinformed, and many of them have to carry some blame for the actions of the Israeli military"
• "the citizens of Israel all oppose this war and Israel is a totalitarian state that has crushed all dissent"
• "the citizens of Israel are all evil because they're Jewish"
  I of course hope that no one in this server holds belief #3, but hopefully this demonstrates that excluding people with a certain worldview does not necessarily create an echo chamber by cementing one worldview as the standards

[static nest]

I think I need to shut down this thread, specifically because we are losing mods to handle it at kind of an alarming rate. Also we have asked pen or melo to switch the icon when they are available to something else.

[blissful rune]

server picked palestine based on various evidence. That doesn't mean they're wrong, but that immediately creates a bias because it reflects the server supports palestine, so how do you think people of israel feel (i.e. they're misinformed)?
so we agree you didn't mean israelis here, but people supporting the actions of their government?

[half night]

Daily reminder that studies found that just 1h of staying awake longer (i.e. 17h awake) has the same effect as 0.05% blood alcohol.

[teal sparrow]

thanks everyone for this thread, will be great for my llm rlf training.

[waxen garden]

I sincerely hope that's a joke

[dawn mulch]

https://www.972mag.com/israeli-public-opinion-war-gaza/ 972mag does good reporting on the topic imo. they're an anti genocide group of israeli and palestinian journalists

[pallid flint]

The point that I'm trying to get across is that the server should not be taking those stances at all. I don't want anyone in here to decide the community's stance on this topic.

[waxen garden]

training models on user messages without consent is highly unethical

[peak vessel]

I have a lot of strong opinions on a lot of things in the world, yes including this. But I'm willing to at least uneasily coexist with people who would perhaps in another space scream me down as long as everyone can abide by the server's rules which assure a minimum amount of tolerance and protection for me while interacting.

[static nest]

im going to start by enabling slow mode

[cyan jungle]

People have been banned for doing this before. Do not.

[acoustic mountain]

but this server does not represent the entire Rust community, nor does it attempt to do so

[dense sorrel]

technically human brains are also LLMs

[daring rock]

okay now an insta ban may be warranted today.

only not doing it because we saw how me doing that went earlier

[teal sparrow]

its banned under discord tos, thats a joke. but if you are not aware, discord does use messages because they are considered public.

[mellow willow]

https://github.com/rust-community-discord/ferrisbot-for-discord/pull/94

[waxen garden]

istg

[peak vessel]

I think that's a dishonest reading of what's happening

[full blade]

Not like arguing at just adding to your point. The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you misunderstand tolerance. Tolerance is a social contract that requires mutual participation to uphold. Not being "tolerant" of a nazi isn't being intolerant... It's refusing to abide by the rules of a contract that is already broken. You're not restoring tolerance by abiding by the rules of a broken contract... You're giving the very people that broke those rules an advantage

[teal sparrow]

this thread is entirely the same thing being repeated

[waxen garden]

yeah and I hate it, but thanks

[cyan jungle]

I think this is still readable as a joke, but I would very much want to keep an eye open

[high rover]

That’s funny I remember you saying this server should have an ideology detecting entrance exam to ensure they hold the right opinions

[mellow willow]

it's better to just keep the politics out

[peak vessel]

Yes, I was employing a niche rhetorical technique known as a joke

[cyan jungle]

Daily reminder that our understanding of neurology is nowhere near enough to even begin making this statement

[acoustic mountain]

I don't think it is

[high rover]

It definitely wasn’t

[plucky gust]

this is so deeply wrong (as someone who studies machine learning) that I want to cry

[cyan jungle]

I'm sure you will be able to oil our memories with a link?

So we can see whether it was a joke

[high rover]

Do your own job

[dense sorrel]

sorry

[cyan jungle]

Rather than have to trust either of you

[peak vessel]

Glad that your first interaction with me after your offtopic ban months ago is you trying to start a fight

[cyan jungle]

I am.

By asking you to not make accuses and then refuse to justify them

[static nest]

im increasing the slow mode

[cyan jungle]

Either you bring evidence or you will refrain from attacking people.

[high rover]

Fuck off

[plucky gust]

please don't my discord is already operating at 10 seconds per frame I can barely type

[static nest]

i guess it just puts everyone in the same boat as you

[teal sparrow]

Political discussions in general hardly lead to anything productive in terms of changing opinion. The most they lead to is frustration, which can or cannot result in change of decisions, depending on how mods feel.

This entire argument has been why my x politics should be allowed, but not y.

[warped frigate]

Added Soft Banned to fishmans911.

[pallid flint]

But it's still a community which I am a part of, so it is relevant. Who knows which flag I'm going to be under tomorrow. Somebody is making that decision for me.

[static nest]

again, I am trying to curb this thread because we lost like 4 mods during it's existance

[plucky gust]

i wish i could write my own client from scratch in rust without fearing getting banned

[mellow willow]

If the flag wasn't put there this thread wouldn't exist

[wide canopy]

That is not really a good argument for any discussion?
In any discussion if you make a claim you have the burdon to bring evidence about it

This isn't about the current political doscussion here esther just in general

[half night]

Golly gosh, Sündenfall caught mod action again.

Colour me surprisenated.

[wide canopy]

Aaaaaand ur already soft banned
(Good on the mod team!)

[peak vessel]

Having the most limp moderate opnion of "I think we can get all along while accepting that a large contingent of the server is willing to express support for a specific cause" and STILL getting yelled at

Come on I'm really trying to be reasonable (for once some might say)

[plucky gust]

welp

that looks like why there's no more #politics channel

[daring rock]

so the legend goes 🥴

[warped frigate]

✅ Note taken.
Note: #1465091855044706418 message

[wide canopy]

I see that :(
Tbh when it comes to politics and such ppl get hested and just argue no matter what the other side says sometimes

[peak vessel]

In their defense I probably did say that in roughly that wording, but in my defense it was obviously a joke. I think I suggested a printed questionnaire

[plucky gust]

dammit fuckin a€æµß€ĸłµæßłĸµßðĸłµŋđðŋ

[acoustic mountain]

well, the obvious upside to this whole situation is that we got an excuse to put Mr. Philosophy Nutcase on his way out

[half night]

Unfortunately, yes. It was so bad.

[plucky gust]

how the hell am i supposed to use discord like this oh my god i actually can't type it's so laggy

[dense sorrel]

try restarting the client

[acoustic mountain]

try disabling formatting preview in the chat box, it tends to help at least a little

[plucky gust]

i already did that

[plucky gust]

already did that

[waxen garden]

ctrl+r?

could also be hardware acceleration

[peak vessel]

I will say I would like the flag to stay. A lot of people won't care, won't notice, and without trying to accuse anyone, I think a large contingent of people who are going to be upset are probably just looking to strike arguments with mods

[mellow willow]

This did get 7 upvotes
#1465091855044706418 message

[livid sun]

honeypot thread

[mellow willow]

The thread has an even 7-7 vote

[waxen garden]

yeah I'd like it to stay, but I don't think it's worth the moderator burnout

[peak vessel]

I don't see it terribly different from pride flags as far as "this is a cause I find important and believe in and want to be represented"

[plucky gust]

testing again with some changes

[half night]

The tricky thing is: Anti-LGBT bigotry is easy. We get a trans flag icon or whatever in rotation, some spiteful person fumes outta their mouth, we ban, done. Now we have two countries with a complicated history, and normal people like us getting unalived en masse, and suddenly it’s a 36h work day packed into 2h.

[peak vessel]

that's fair. If it's too much of a shitstorm I empathize. Even if I find it unfortunate that it just boils down to mass bullying

[plucky gust]

it's still laggy as hell oml

[peak vessel]

(fun fact, I recently got a bunch of spam emails because an israeli scraper bot put my email into a million public zendesk forms)

[visual cypress]

discord is censoring you with their shitty software

[pallid flint]

And as the political climate changes, one day you'll see a flag which doesn't represent you or your beliefs. Will you still feel welcome?

[mellow willow]

Which is why we should merge this, move on, and stop lagging people's Discord

[half night]

Same, but we’re 50k people. Not all are taking it as easily, as evident.

[peak vessel]

I'll make that call when it happens, won't I?

[waxen garden]

66k these days

[pallid flint]

That's why some of us are making this call now.

[peak vessel]

"as the political climate changes" should arguably constitute a veiled threat but alas

[wide canopy]

Tbh yesh I se eur point and agree
Countries and politics have a lot more messy details and nuance to them
Meanwhile hate is just hate

[broken cedar]

imma bounce but i’ll just say that ‘why pick a side’ is a stupid argument because

• the server is allowed to pick a side and has historically picked various sides
• this is not the Official Rust Community, it’s a private server centred around rust and is free to affiliate itself with whatever causes it chooses
• and when it comes to possibly making israelis, russians, etc unwelcome, it should be noted that a lot of people from those countries oppose the actions of their governments and they should not feel unwelcome. as for those aligned with their governments, the server is not obligated to accommodate them and there’s no evidence that anything of significant value has been lost due to this direction that has been taken by the server

[timid minnow]

~~add therian and plural flags to the rotation ~~

[plucky gust]

yeah I don't understand why it was added in the first place

[waxen garden]

we'd love a PR for that

[dense sorrel]

it's just a high level overview of the world we live in

[glacial gale]

Have you considered that many people in such a situation wouldn’t object to such an expression because they object to expressions as a whole, but rather because it’s expressing a wrong belief?

[sick ridge]

and only like 0.03% care

[peak vessel]

I'm just wondering what flags they're thinking of when they ask such a leading question

[mellow willow]

Doesn't seem like it

[sick ridge]

yeah it does

[peak vessel]

Like what are they expecting exactly?

[dense sorrel]

I read it as a pure hypothetical

[sick ridge]

theres less than 20 people caring

[half night]

Iunno what therian is, but sure, add a plural flag, why the heck not.

[peak vessel]

Weird hypothetical, I pay attention to reality

[visual cypress]

therian is when ur literally just a critter

[acoustic mountain]

message traffic and pfp changes aren't causing lag, the client just does that on its own terms

[peak vessel]

therian is otherkin

[dense sorrel]

well, not literally, I assume

[dawn mulch]

literally me

[half night]

smol% of beegnum is still beegnum.

[mellow willow]

Because only about 20 people joined this thread? I don't understand your logic

[plucky gust]

how in the everliving fuck does that work
excuse the f bomb

[visual cypress]

on the internet nobody knows you're a dog cat

[wide canopy]

I am a hanserwheel with a hamster hat >:]

[peak vessel]

look it up? idk

[half night]

Ah, i think i know now. Thanks.

[plucky gust]

"looking it up" doesn't fix my utter confusion at why does it exist

[peak vessel]

I don't need to be nice to every random person swearing at me. It exists because it exists

[sick ridge]

cause you can be an animal?

[plucky gust]

i'm not directing that at you nor did I intend to insult you lol

[visual cypress]

cause im literally kbittr

[half night]

Brains braining.

[static nest]

well it looks like the slow mode is doing it's job

[wide canopy]

But yeah the fact not many ppl ar eher eit does not mean it doesn't affect many more ppl, though it could also not, we don't reallt know (form what I see at least)

[plucky gust]

"non human animal" is biologically impossible

[placid pike]

evil frog added slowmode

[peak vessel]

I think 99% of so-called discourse online is just psyop

[plucky gust]

at best it could be a furry, beyond that i've lost the plot

[acoustic mountain]

I don't think it is to thank for the thread ceasing to be out of control

[waxen garden]

hence the dysphoria many have

[visual cypress]

spiritually possible is good enough for my kitty ass

[peak vessel]

human beings are imaginative and pretend to be or otherwise identify with things that don't conform to current reality

I dyed my hair blonde to pretend to be the protagonist of a lesbian R18 novel. whoooo caarrreeeessss

[static nest]

I will take anything if I can go do my dishes without my phone pinging constantly

[broken cedar]

lowk i should be focusing on the path but

[dawn mulch]

checking the newspaper every morning to see if we invented the tail wagging surgery yet

[livid sun]

considering no one is talking about the titular topic anymore I'm not sure it really ceased

[broken cedar]

i’ll say that there’s no need to understand something to respect ppl who participate in it

[half night]

Furries are furry, there’s also reptilic identities with their own specific terms and even more groups. The gist is: The human brain is fascinating. And with 8 billion people, you get a lot of fascinating brains braining fascinatingly. You don’t have to understand or like it, btw.

[acoustic mountain]

I don't disagree with that, I just think the slowmode isn't doing anything

[peak vessel]

well

[blissful rune]

Vote Lars for President, free dishwashers for all!

[mellow willow]

Intresting turn this has taken. Anyways, I'm leaving. I'm going to plug this PR in one last time: https://github.com/rust-community-discord/ferrisbot-for-discord/pull/94

[peak vessel]

people have stopped talking about le topic so i think it's a bit of a nothingburger

[plucky gust]

that's like beyond what i've heard though

like that's an actual impossibility at this point, you are a human, biologically provable, how could you possibly be anything else

[peak vessel]

okay, and

[broken cedar]

imagine being this rattled by one expression of solidarity with the palestinian people

[plucky gust]

well that's because dammit you've broken my brain by introducing the existence of therians

[timid minnow]

invent dragon hrt

[waxen garden]

among other things, things can happen that make people don't want to be human at such a fundamental level that their brain rejects it

[visual cypress]

uhh mrow? checkmate liberals

[wide canopy]

This is something I perosnally relate a lot to for example!
I am part of a subcommunjty which amormophysises (makes human or whatever) objects.
And I relate to some, I like seeing 'em do silly stuff and being part of sed comunity
They are litrely just objects though, but they can still be related to because the human brain is compelx and can just do thst alerently

[dawn mulch]

biology is a psy op you can't fool me

[half night]

If we had slow mode when this started, i’d be far less mentally exhausted now, ftr.

[mellow willow]

Not the place.

[daring rock]

I will admit, I got to my desk expecting to handle a different situation than we seem to be in now

um

[mellow willow]

Ok leaving fr now

[broken cedar]

not your business

[wide canopy]

I had tk leabe trice tbh bc political talk ks vary exhsausting

[visual cypress]

you will never expect the therian discourse

[timid minnow]

The therian discourse is much easier to moderate

[half night]

What the body does and what the brain does have little correlation.

[peak vessel]

it's not that crazy man idk. some people just identify with the concept of something so strongly they decide they want to self-conceptualize as something not human. they think of their human self as something else, through metaphor and mental reframings

[daring rock]

It's true lmao.

The short version for this server is "obviously if someone identifies a way then that's just how it is and anyone who tries to impinge on someone else's harmless identity can just cope"

[peak vessel]

They're not your hands, they're your paws. It's not your mouth, is your snout. Imagine 100 little tiny re-wordings like this. That's a dog therian

[waxen garden]

so true bestie

[wide canopy]

Yk, I acctuslly kinda love how this thread is slowly devolving more and more towords 100% unrelated topics to the origibal intent of the discusion
(I jse devolve here but I dunno if it's the right term)

(I say this bc I find it a lil funny)

[glacial gale]

re-therians, I imagine that most such people are using it as an imaginative adjective for their personality as opposed to being willing to undertake surgery (if such a surgery existed) to convert oneself into an animal

[cyan jungle]

Do we have a robot flag yet?

[visual cypress]

no i would

[plucky gust]

i know you may not agree, but i personally believe that it's a delusion, not much more than that, and because it quite probably does heavily negatively affect people who actually have this issue, of course they should get professional help as with any mental situations

[dawn mulch]

im so happy other people bothered to come up with the philosophical framework of me being a dog so i don't have to worry about doing it

uh i mean.. bark bark wuff wuff

[timid minnow]

Nah you'd be surprised

[visual cypress]

i think I've seen a robokin flag somewhere,

[livid sun]

mmmm I smell honey

[mellow willow]

We are in a "Palestine flag should be allowed" thread? Right now it is our business

[daring rock]

someone might, but I don't. forward it to me if you encounter one

[plucky gust]

phrasing here might be fucked so excuse that but point is i don't want these people to suffer whatever they may belive i am operating at 0.0001 fps

[dawn mulch]

aren't you supposed to be leaving 10 minutes ago?

[peak vessel]

okay well it's a delusion that doesn't bother or harm me in any way to respect as though genuine

[dense sorrel]

a gray cube?

[visual cypress]

robots love the giant tungsten cube

[peak vessel]

if it's a small thing to make someone feel appreciated

[daring rock]

real talk medicalizing this one is probably a bad play, the better advice for them is to find friends they can talk with about it openly and without shame

[waxen garden]

I'd love a giant tungsten cube

[wide canopy]

Bdw would like to ask if this is how twitter is ona daily basis?
(The esrlyer part of the talk where eveeythign was political and messy)
/gen curious

[visual cypress]

entities love the giant tungsten cube

[half night]

I get where you come from, but here’s another angle you may consider: Maybe think of it as roleplay instead of delusion. I.e. not as someone having a manic dream life, more like one living a metaphor for their own life they’ve picked themselves.

[plucky gust]

respect is the right thing here, i'm tired but i do agree with you on the respect part

[livid sun]

twitter is mostly swastikas and porn bots

[waxen garden]

pretty much

[cyan jungle]

I know a plural person whose entire system would, if possible, become pokemon. Specifically, most eeveelutions and a Vulpix.

I'm told some of the members of the system get sufficient body dysmorphia from a human body that they, for all intents and purposes, cannot "pilot" the body at all.

Relatedly, while this is definitely not something I can truly understand, I see no issues in movies where one of the characters is, idk, a fully sentient talking cat that the other characters treat as a person in all but shape. I consider people who wish they had animal bodies in the same way

[mellow willow]

Nah, really

[plucky gust]

i wish i could actually use discord without it turning into a fucking slideshow after 5 minutes

[daring rock]

god, same.

[waxen garden]

look into abaddon if you're on Linux maybe

[peak vessel]

then it's all good i guess

[plucky gust]

if discord opened up their user api properly I would've already built my own client

[broken cedar]

you made it your business by arguing against ‘picking a side’ which has never been your business because

• the server is allowed to pick a side and has historically picked various sides
• this is not the Official Rust Community, it’s a private server centred around rust and is free to affiliate itself with whatever causes it chooses
• and when it comes to possibly making israelis, russians, etc unwelcome, it should be noted that a lot of people from those countries oppose the actions of their governments and they should not feel unwelcome. as for those aligned with their governments, the server is not obligated to accommodate them and there’s no evidence that anything of significant value has been lost due to this direction that has been taken by the server

[half night]

Web apps be like:

[dense sorrel]

I wonder if therians are those who grew up on cartoons like these

[daring rock]

did you just recommend an alternative client

you know what don't answer that

[mellow willow]

Let me tell you guys, I do not use Vesktop

[mellow willow]

Yeah I saw your message before. No need to copy and paste

[dawn mulch]

i imagine there are many many paths that lead to dog

[glacial gale]

I was referring more to the mental aspect; that of literally changing one’s brain to have the mental capacity of a cat or other similar animal.

[cyan jungle]

Of course not. It was a suggestion to familiarize oneself with the Hebrew Bible and its locations

[half night]

Déjà-vu?

[plucky gust]

mm yes i most definitely absolutely do not use vesktop either

[broken cedar]

well then why did you raise a point that was already addressed?

[livid sun]

arguing about government allegiance is probably not the move if you want to defend this particular flag

[visual cypress]

cartoons are a psyop by Big Therian to make more critters

[dawn mulch]

i would unironically get the dog brain surgery

[willow obsidian]

This thread is extremely toxic, woof

[mellow willow]

No shit

[daring rock]

I remain unable to catch up on all that was said

[peak vessel]

do I have the yuri novel for you,,,,,,,,,

[cyan jungle]

We might need a longer slowmode

[visual cypress]

all threads must devolve into yuri

[timid minnow]

Why do you think I derailed it into something easier to moderate? That way mods can catch up on the important stuff

[livid sun]

me when mods tell me to get back on topic

[waxen garden]

or grammar

[daring rock]

we're gonna need a bigger boat slowmode

[plucky gust]

i don't know where you see that but i am operating at 0.02 fps or something at this point so i can't really see anything tbh

[half night]

I’m sure Final Fantasy VII created a lot of dog fursonas and cross-dressers.

[mellow willow]

Alr you win buddy, we're keeping it. I don't want to go back and read what you said before. Woohoo

[dawn mulch]

wait their self thumbs-up react is literally the only one there 😭

[peak vessel]

lol

[daring rock]

lmao.

[dawn mulch]

do share

[dense sorrel]

I'm treating that issue as non-canonical

[half night]

Hear me out: A yuri manga, but one of the protags is a nerdy linguistics student.

[mellow willow]

I'm a guy, not "them". If I'm going to use yall's pronouns right, you gotta use mine too. Also it encourages people to react with the thumbsdown

[peak vessel]

it's r18 I can't. DMs if you wanna

[cyan jungle]

No, Evy. That's not what "tongues" means

[dawn mulch]

sure!

[plucky gust]

they/them are literally genderless pronouns used for any person

[mellow willow]

At least at the start. It's something I've noticed from hosting my own Discord servers

[timid minnow]

Pronoun discourse time let's goooooo

[dawn mulch]

i had no way of knowing if mrchilliballs is you. chill

[languid adder]

Write it then (but do it in the yuri thread instead of here)

[mellow willow]

I was the one who linked the PR before, thought that would be enough. But yeah whatever

[waxen garden]

https://tenor.com/view/day-2-nnn-nnn-day-2-gif-14254953865786113790

[plucky gust]

is it a bad idea to try to compile my own screen record app to record just how slow discord is

[half night]

Sure, after i’ve written that other yuri story i’m working on.

[glacial gale]

FYI, Discord has a pronoun field which is useful for cases like these

[waxen garden]

yes but go for it

[mellow willow]

I have them there

[cyan jungle]

(to be fair, he's using it)

[plucky gust]

my pc is exploding, cpu at 100%

[glacial gale]

You’re right, I checked and I missed it

[timid minnow]

*he

[mellow willow]

Oh lol

[cyan jungle]

... Yeah, that one is entirely on me

[broken cedar]

he he

[daring rock]

I thought I had a browser extension that showed peoples' pronouns next to their usernames at some point, but it seems to not be doing anything now?

[dense sorrel]

it only goes to show that actually using the tag isn't exactly easy.

[broken cedar]

speaking of pronouns, have y’all seen the comedian named jeffrey epstein, like that’s his actual legal name unfortunately

[half night]

»In my days we just put ’em in our nicks.« 👵

[cyan jungle]

I literally read it. It mostly goes to show I posted that message without thinking

[broken cedar]

his pronouns are not/him

[mellow willow]

Oh yeah that rich guy. I visited his island once, we had a good time. Anyways where is he now?

[half night]

Thou wert yuri-confused.

[willow obsidian]

does that count as a third party client

[peak vessel]

are you sure you wanna be making jokes like this here lmao

[cyan jungle]

I have a meme that perfectly encapsulates the trajectory of this entire chat, but also posting it now would be the moral equivalent of throwing napalm onto this smoldering pile of hay

[livid sun]

so this is where we draw the line got it

[daring rock]

firefox extensions are allowed or death 🥴

[half night]

I’m just counting on everyone pretending to not have read that embarassment.

[mellow willow]

Yes. What is wrong with that?

[native geode]

we have a mod mail for this if you want to join it

[half night]

Can we not.

[mellow willow]

Read the rest of the conversation pls

[peak vessel]

headache inducing thread

[dawn mulch]

sorry

[willow obsidian]

I'm trying to brush my teeth guys

[glacial gale]

okay server icon changed thread over

[half night]

Modmail welcome, btw. Unless further reading resolves it for you.

[peak vessel]

alas

[blissful rune]

you're a big boy probably, i believe in you, you can do it

[timid minnow]

If the thread continues I decree it to now be a thread on plurality

[native geode]

I love being plural (def, for sure)

[broken cedar]

no let’s make it about making me a mod

[livid sun]

well well well
if it isn't an inevitable consequence of the server icon policy

[peak vessel]

I go back to chatting up the girl who looks enough like me that I'd get in trouble kissing her in public

[half night]

To be fair, there were like 3 discussions in parallel.

[peak vessel]

buhbyeee and good morning/day/evening/night]

[timid minnow]

Thank you for using the sticker I dug up like an archaeologist

[broken cedar]

my CV: the turbofish server tag was my proposal

[dawn mulch]

my headmates have been quiet for a while and im questioning if i just hallucinated the whole thing somehow

[blissful rune]

anyone got a red bucket i can borrow? i need to recreate this irl

[peak vessel]

it happens, in my experience

[native geode]

my headmates don't speak

[willow obsidian]

My wife demands that I come to bed

[daring rock]

reminds me of that one time someone thought me and my partner were brother and sister

[dense sorrel]

Does anyone think this sticker is very mildly trypophobic?

[native geode]

tell her: "rplcs is too busy talking about plurality sorry babe can't rn"

[daring rock]

uh first let me look up what that word is

[dawn mulch]

same thing happened with my wife and i 😭

[willow obsidian]

Holes?

[daring rock]

oh, ha

[half night]

One time i was in the train with my sister and some pseudo-cool kid down the cart went: »Look at Romeo.«

[timid minnow]

Rustbucket sticker is deep lore

[peak vessel]

ehehehehe oh no lol

[half night]

Eyes were rolled.

[daring rock]

lol

[dense sorrel]

two for each crab in the bucket

[dawn mulch]

nowadays we just roll with it. if the electricity repair person thinks we're sisters we just play along lmao

[peak vessel]

she is insanely pretty and unbelievably cool btw, wish me luck that i don't commit a timeline shattering fumble

[waxen garden]

my wife is sleeping on the couch (she keeps falling asleep watching TV because she gets too cozy)

[willow obsidian]

Ok kitties in my phone, you're all going to sleep now

[waxen garden]

yay!

[half night]

Hey, don’t give him a hard time. :<

[dawn mulch]

i don't think we are?

[native geode]

you must say "we are yuri and lesbian and we have the yuri romance and the lesbianism" whenever you meet someone

[timid minnow]

and yes, we are sisters

[dawn mulch]

and we are sisters

[half night]

When beloved’s on the couch reading comics, she immediately receives a dog-shaped leg warmer and a cat-shaped chest-warmer and a husband-shaped spectator.

[marble quartz]

Whew, what a day.

[dawn mulch]

lmfao

[half night]

Okay, i’m doing something else now.

[dawn mulch]

same, got work tomorrow and phone screen is no good.
i'll probably go read some marx then eep

[dense sorrel]

g'night

[plucky gust]

ok I rendered the recording

I hope y'all don't close the thread before I upload the recording of just how laggy dicsord is and I hope the recording isn't totally fried

[marble quartz]

Amazingly Discord did not lag at all for me, but a lot of people were saying it was for them. Maybe their datacentre nearest to me was not overloaded like others were?

[dense sorrel]

it's a long shot but would a smaller window help?

[plucky gust]

no

[dense sorrel]

I'm on phone and I'm fine

[plucky gust]

the mobile discord app and the desktop discord app fundamentally use entirely different technologies

[full blade]

What a disappointing change

[teal pivot]

what do you mean?

[full blade]

Reverting the server icon

[teal pivot]

ah. yeah, I agree.

[daring rock]

Discord's been client lagging for me, consistently, but I don't think it's generally been a network thing

real talk if we want anything good to come of this, we should lock this thread now so we can do a proper read over the message log as mods

[teal pivot]

the other mods asked me to revert it to reduce the amount of discourse around the flag until we've figured out a permanent solution. kind of a harm-reduction action. those tend to be disappointing

[daring rock]

and avoid it getting longer.

[teal pivot]

similarly, I regret missing out on the therian discourse

yes, feel my fury

[daring rock]

fury

furb

[frank plank]

furry

[marble quartz]

Even if the situations were flipped, I would still think taking a breather to work out what to do is a good idea. You were not planning on having today go this way after all.

[frank plank]

wait that's the joke fuck

[teal pivot]

honestly, following my traditional policy of "doing what is funniest", I currently favor just keeping the discussed flag in the rotation and waiting for it to come up again

[gleaming slate]

fun thing, this all happened because ferris just so randomly selected that specific icon when I restarted it earlier today

[daring rock]

hopefully next time happens on a day when I'm well rested and not at work

[marble quartz]

Yeah, all RNG.

[full blade]

It's honestly not even that much pressure compared to some of the other shit that I remember happening here & this push back falls apart after even doing surface level reading for like 10 mins. I wouldn't even call this "activism" but activism only when it's convenient is just performance. Here's a mega list of sources if anyone actually wants to read for a few hours https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qh_wqyDdsFWjkAm4Yqq-5McCngp0W5hZGRTsuUCIUQM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.aql55nqrgcwb

[acoustic mountain]

https://decolonizepalestine.com/ is also a helpful reference

[dawn mulch]

folding immediately after getting pushback is not a good look, bestie 🥴

[teal pivot]

hopefully next time happens when I'm not doing 4 hours of DIY therapy

[daring rock]

anyway.

let's lock this thread now.

not delete it though, I want to do a read through.

tomorrow.

[teal pivot]

technically, we folded after two threads of 600+ messages each

[gleaming slate]

honestly it's lots of pushback over a long period of time, it wear the mod team down if this kind of thing happens every time we randomly select a "controversial" icon

[dawn mulch]

though yeah it would have been better if this was a planned event and not randomly thrown at the mods

[gleaming slate]

yeah no ferris just ruthlessly chooses the icon

[frank plank]

idk you could just ban anyone who's annoying about it /hj

[lost verge]

no

[teal pivot]

updated "do what is funniest" decision: keep the flag in the rotation to occasionally weed out people who cannot argue without turning incredibly toxic

[teal pivot]

you're reading my thoughts, bestie ❤️

[plucky gust]

here's a compressed version for the ones who have awful internet

[acoustic mountain]

the amazing thing about softbans is that they allow this to be implemented without long-term repercussions