strong imp
Most of this stuff tends to either go into the general chats or #dark-arts, but dark-arts is pretty overloaded because it gets type theory / lifetime stuff, and cursed stuff too. I think a perf channel would be great.
That way we can call in the perf police and the benchmark brigade without disrupting unrelated conversations
tepid escarp
Hmm, I'm open to the idea. How do other people feel about that
@strong imp feel free to link this thread over in #dark-arts a few times to gather feedback on the idea
open whale
It's not an uncommon topic, I wouldn't be opposed to it.
dusty oxide
personally against it, #dark-arts is a fine channel for it
the kind of people who hang out there will also typically be the kind of people who know about low level performance details etc
and i don't think dark-arts is too busy to the point where splitting it up is warranted
modest ferry
i agree
latent egret
#dark-arts has a lot of longrunning threads attached to it … which isn't bad but it isn't very discoverable
modest ferry
right, i think there'd be a better argument for making those into channels than making something that isn't discussed often enough to warrant one of those
dusty oxide
i think them being threads are fine, but requires you know the threads exist
if you know threads exist and are looking for them, they're quite discoverable
latent egret
I'm thinking that it'd be nice to have different contexts for "how can I make this go ludicrously fast by all means necessary" from "benchmark, benchmark, benchmark introduction to the fundamentals of programming with performance in mind"
idk which one of those I'd want to argue deserves a channel though
dusty oxide
like, there is a different channel icon for channels with (active?) threads
latent egret
yeah but it's subtle and it doesn't distinguish "this had a thread once upon a time" vs. "check out the cool threads in here!"
…maybe there could be a forum channel for "specialty topics"? discoverability is better there
like how #981642226927009792 contains #985536774883405855 for example, except the forum would be only that kind of post and not individual questions
dusty oxide
personally the discoverability for forums for me is 0 because i have them all muted
dusty oxide
yeah but it's subtle and it doesn't distinguish "this had a thread once upon a t...
it only shows for active threads
which i think is reasonable
latent egret
I shouldn't have said "once upon a time"
dusty oxide
anyways, i think the current situation is fine
latent egret
I mean: there is no visual indication that #dark-arts has sub-topic threads and most other channels do not
dusty oxide
there is?
latent egret
and if you do look at the thread-list in #dark-arts you have to sort through a whole lot of single-question threads to find the bigger ones
dusty oxide
true
there is that
a pinned list of "long term" threads might be a reasonable middle ground
latent egret
that's why I suggested a forum channel where all the threads in it would be expected to be interest-topics
dusty oxide
(no one reads pins either, but at least if you're told about them, they'd be easy to find)
latent egret
pins require moderator action to clean up when stale, though
silk marsh
I think people should just ask in #dark-arts and if we really want to direct them to a thread we can just do that at the time
tepid escarp
yeah, I'd personally prefer the community building solution, which is that people who are in a thread, mention that thread when relevant in the main channel
open whale
I wouldn't insist on this channel being a thing, but it does seem worthy of note that #dark-arts is not the only place performance discussions happen right now. The general channels do get a fair bit of it.
last flare
that's why I suggested a forum channel where _all_ the threads in it would be ex...
this seems reasonable, or a dedicated perf channel given it's a pretty important topic that is very much distinct from the spirit of dark arts, not at all a subset (at best it has partial overlap, but that can be said about many of the other already existing channels as well then)
ivory juniper
why doesnt dark-arts get a perf thread instead
strong imp
threads are not discoverable like channels are
if someone has a perf issue they will not look for the perf thread to talk about it, they will come to a channel
dusty oxide
if someone has a perf issue they will not look for the perf thread to talk about...
they can then be directed to the thread
but yeah like it's fine to just use #dark-arts for that
last flare
i disagree, i dont think performance conversation should be inherently associated or classified under dark arts whatsoever
just like there is an os-dev channel instead of an os-dev thread in dark-arts... it just doesnt really make sense to me
crimson arch
It is worth noting that we're looking at making a channel out of #1120748524196335617, and the only blocker seems to be deciding on exactly the form it should take, because there are disagreements about the use of forum channels and the general culture of the thread as it stands.
With that in mind, if something makes a good enough longstanding thread, we can make it be a channel.
forest cosmos
just like there is an os-dev channel instead of an os-dev thread in dark-arts......
dark-arts is very vaguely scoped indeed
latent egret
i disagree, i dont think performance conversation should be inherently associate...
+1-sort-of: I think it would be helpful to have a place that is more clearly inviting to newcomers just learning about what it even means to write high performance code and needing to learn the basics like "don't write O(n²) loops" and "benchmark! profile! benchmark! profile!", and for that reason I don't care for it being under #dark-arts. But I'm more concerned about “can the people who need it find it at all” than that.
strong imp
We got shadow wizard reading club and wasi/wasm but not perf?
Plz mods, my perf children are starving
tepid escarp
i understand the desire, but personally, as only a single mod, I'm not convinced there's a strong community consensus in favor of this channel. in a quick run through this thread, I counted 3-4 people in favor of a channel, and 2 people expressing preference for a thread. i'd be more comfortable making a channel if there was either no opposition or overwhelming support for a it. right now, we're kind of in an unclear middleground
ivory juniper
well lets make a thread then