#Fitness/Sport

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

smoky needle
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but that's nerd stuff

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you are confused with basics

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yes LUL

gilded flume
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tbf my program doesn't follow any basics XD

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i do twice a week full body, hour half - 2 hour sessions lol

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that throws basics all out the window

smoky needle
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that can work

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if you cover all the basics

gilded flume
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its been working for me :3

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ima ride the program until i hit 100kg 3x5 on bench

smoky needle
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surplus, protein, exercise

gilded flume
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without outrageous bulking

smoky needle
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for exercise you want intesity, frequency, volume

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if you hit all these, you good

gilded flume
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like i feel like i can hit it much sooner if i didnt mind being obese for a bit

smoky needle
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don't be obese, it's bad, and doesn't make you stronger

gilded flume
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but i do because being obese for jsut a 100kg bench is not worth it

smoky needle
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just be at a small surplus, and slowly gain muscle

gilded flume
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theres this guy benching 70kg with a massive belly and im left thinking why

smoky needle
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fatness doesn't help

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you can be strong or weak fat person

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on average you are slightly stronger in absolute terms, simply because you have to carry a lot of weight, which is like exercise

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but on relative basis, pound per pound, you are massively weaker

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and quality of your muscles is weaker

gilded flume
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being fat or even higher weight, definitely helps with moving weight

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otherwise powerlifting weight classes would have the same values and distribution of lifts

smoky needle
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it's not fat that makes them heavy/strong

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it's muscle

gilded flume
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i didnt mean to say powerlifters are fat >.>

smoky needle
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they are heavier because they have more muscle

gilded flume
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(well some of them are lol)

smoky needle
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fat generally doesn't help much in moving weight

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because it's fat.. around your belly, it doesn't move shit LUL

gilded flume
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we can test this theory pretty easily

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just cut down 20-30kg and test your 1rm or for me i bulk 20kg-30kg more and test my 1rm

smoky needle
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it's not even a theory, you would have to propose some mechanistic explanation

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how fat tissue around belly/legs helps you with bench

gilded flume
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the fatter you are the more energy you have and therefore you can move more weight

smoky needle
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i wish it worked like that LUL

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i'm currently at 125kg 😭

gilded flume
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sure but if current you had less weight then you wouldnt move as much weight

smoky needle
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you can't use your fat energy like that

gilded flume
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energy is just energy?

smoky needle
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nope, fat is not easily accesible energy

gilded flume
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power = energy * time

smoky needle
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w..wat

gilded flume
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fat is byproduct of consuming too much energy (calories)

smoky needle
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fat is like cold archive in tape, in some basemenet in arizona

gilded flume
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you necessarily have more energy when youre fat

smoky needle
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sugar in blood is like ram

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burning fat takes hours and days

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so being fat doesn't help with having more power or energy

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you are just.. more fat

gilded flume
smoky needle
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being properly hydrated, replenishing your glycogen reserves

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not exercising on empty stomach

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creatine

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these things help

smoky needle
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but body is not perfect magical machine

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that can trasform fatness into 1rm

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takes hours to melt fat into energy

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fat is high density, cold archive, very very high latency

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it's like hdd

gilded flume
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would you accept an argument based on correlation?

smoky needle
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it's just not how bodies work

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muscles use energy that is already present in muscle

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sugars in blood (30s), and then glycogen reserves (5mins)

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glycogen is just high density sugar storage

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so that's 1s, 30s, 5mins (roughly)

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fat is in hours

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because only energy body uses is glucose

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and to turn fat into glucose, it's some arcane alchemy called gluconeogenesis

gilded flume
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yeah all this is going through my monkey brain, i still think the easiest way to prove / disprove would get the same guy and make him bulk/cut and test their 1rm

smoky needle
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sure

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i don't know where your priors are coming from, what convincede you fatness is important factor?

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why would fat cells around belly help with benching?

gilded flume
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because power = energy * time

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so force production is determined by energy

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and since fat people consume more energy, then they can produce more power

smoky needle
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yeah, but they spend more energy as well

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just to exist

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so it's a wash

gilded flume
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yeah i still need to find something which states that

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because from tdee website, fatter people require less tdee so need less energy consumption

smoky needle
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fatter people require much more tdee than light people

gilded flume
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and because higher weight classes move more weight than lower weight classes in powerlifting

smoky needle
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but for same weight, fatter person spends a bit less than same weighted lean person

gilded flume
smoky needle
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yep

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that's how that value is calculated

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by definition

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it's measure of how much you spend energy daily

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if you consume that much, you maintain

gilded flume
smoky needle
gilded flume
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if it is by definition it should be easy to find the text

smoky needle
gilded flume
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what, i made no statements >.> im just trying to learn

smoky needle
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i mean, just google it

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TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure, which is the total number of calories your body burns in a day, including all activities and bodily functions. It is calculated by considering your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR), activity level, and the thermic effect of food.

gilded flume
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wikipedia hate!

smoky needle
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but this number is based on our body, not other way around, if that makes sense

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all it means is how much energy you spend in a day, total

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if you match that with food, mainenance

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most precise way to calculate it is not by some formula gesstimate

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but by measuring your weight daily, and measuring how much calories you intake

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if you maitnain, taht's your tdee

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what is important is that you gain weight, if you are trying to build muscle

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slowly

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that's a sign that you are in surplus, and you are bulding muscle

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it's needed to build muscle, in 99.9% cases

gilded flume
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eric helms says this in his nutrition book

image.png
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eric helms is phd big boy

smoky needle
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yeah, he says that it's not true that fat people can't gain muscle effectively

gilded flume
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and this

image.png
smoky needle
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which is true, fat people can gain muscle

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yeah, exactly, he is correct in both

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and doesn't contradict anything I said

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he states it's for logistical reasons, not for strength/muscle growth reasons

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you don't want to get too fat because you will die

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so you will have to cut more often

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you don't want to be bulking for 2 weeks, and then cutting

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because it interrupts your program

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he is arguing against getting fat

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explicitly states that allowing some small fat gain is 'fine', but for logisitical reasons, not muscle gain reasons

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to avoid 2 week bulk, 2 week cut

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it should be at least 6 weeks, usually few months

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because you should be gaining only 100-200g wekly, 1kg monthly max

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and first image just staes that fat people can gain muscle

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which is true, all you need is surplus

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and protein and resistance training

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doesn't matter your bf%, it's irrelevant to muscle gain goal

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fat or skinny, you can gain muslce all the same

gilded flume
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do sumo wrestlers do bulking and cutting cycles?

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i thought they just stayed at the same weight year round

smoky needle
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who knows, I think they are prema bulking until they die LUL

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dunno how that sport works really

gilded flume
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yea me neither lol

smoky needle
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but they go both max fat, max muscle

gilded flume
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i thought they just went to godknows xkg and then stayed at that weight for trainning

smoky needle
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because being as heavy as a truck helps pushing other people

gilded flume
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and for compeititons

smoky needle
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because you can just lean on them

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with your weight

gilded flume
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sumo wrestlers also know some judo

smoky needle
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ye, they are pretty strong too

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but dunno, i know conventional strength sports and training styles

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like strongman, powerlifter, bodybuilder

gilded flume
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yeah i thought strongman also have a year round diet

smoky needle
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ye, they can vibe it out

gilded flume
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i thought both sumos and strongman did please

smoky needle
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modern strongman are pretty lean

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they just look fat

gilded flume
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but they're also building crazy strong muscles

smoky needle
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some don't even look fat

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nobody really cares about bf% except bodybuilders

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on stage

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you care about bf% to not die

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being fat is terribly bad for health

gilded flume
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for me i tried to eat like what i thought the sumos and strongman did, maintain a year round diet while being high enough bf% (not high to be obese)

smoky needle
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you jusst have to eat at a surplus

gilded flume
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and then since it worked for sumos then why wouldn't it work for me as smol boii

smoky needle
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i.e you have to gain some small amount of weight over time

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it's that simple

gilded flume
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yea but i dont think sumos do that but not sure

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i thought they mainted the same diet with the same high bf%, but still have very strong pound for pound muscle

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and well, if they weren't building muscles, then they probably gonna lose an edge

smoky needle
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poud of pound they are weak

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they are strong in absolute terms

gilded flume
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oh yeah sorry i mean absolute

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absolute muscle mass

smoky needle
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ye, they are just maxing out both strenght and weight

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trun a car into a tank

gilded flume
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so that was my basis for if you're fat you can build muscle

smoky needle
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so it's immovable

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you can build muscle at any size

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sumo don't get fat for muscles

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they get fat so they can sit on their enemies and crush them :lul

gilded flume
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ye but still their absolute muscle mass is very high

smoky needle
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ye, but it's unhealthy and doesn't help with bench

gilded flume
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i wonder if people has done comparison between super heavyweight powerlifters, strongman and sumos with muscle mass

smoky needle
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it makes squat and similar much harder actually

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imagine having to squat 300kg bw (650pounds)

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you wouldn't need any weight LUL

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dunno, prob

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they are optimizing different things

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but that's if you are advanced athlete

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programs are same for normal people

gilded flume
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i understand that, but still i think its an important example that if youre fat and maintain a year long diet you can still build muscle

smoky needle
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you gain strength, size, power.. all at the same time peepo_happy

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yes, I never said otherwise

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it's actually my point

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bf% doesn't matter

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you can build muscle at any fatness

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you just need caloric surplus

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2500kcal or 8000kcal

gilded flume
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you kinda did >.>

smoky needle
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all the same training, same surplus

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ah, key there is that if you are maintaining that weight

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you can't maintain weight

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you can buld muscle while fat

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but as a result you will get heavier

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your fatness will remain the same, but you will have more muscle

gilded flume
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i think sumos maintain their weight year round?

smoky needle
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nobody is mintaining weight

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all strength athletes are trying to gain weight

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that's what bulking is

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(muscle weight)

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nobody wants to stay the same, or lose muscle

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bulking is gaining muscle, which is also gaining total weight

gilded flume
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eh if it works for sumos it'll probably work for anyone

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just more sport specific

smoky needle
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they are not maintaining weight tho

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all strength athletes are trying to gain weight

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by weight usually muscle

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they are all bulking at surplus

gilded flume
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ig we need a pro to ask them lol

smoky needle
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i mean, it's basic

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you can't gain muscle without gaining weight

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mucle is physical tissue with mass

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all strength athletes are trying to get stronger

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so they are in surplus

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you probably seen 10.000kcal strongman diet, etc

gilded flume
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yea

smoky needle
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they diet only when they are dying from cardiovascular diseases

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which is why they weight 200kg in pure muscle

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check brian shaw dexa scan

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he is at 12% bf at 200kg, unreal

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you won't catch that guy maintaining or dieting almost ever LUL

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compared to him, i'm super weak

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and I also never want to cut

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why would I

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well i cut now because it's unhealthy, and annoying to carry around

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but you get the point

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process of getting stronger is trough surplus, bulking, gainign weight

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and it's one of the main proofs that you are building muscle

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now you try to gain mostly muscle, so your surplus should be small

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because fat is usless, unhealthy, decreases athletic performances

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nobody wants to be fat

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(except sumo people i guess)

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even strongman don't want to be fat, because they compete in yoke, running with big ass stones

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farmer carries, truck pulls

gilded flume
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hmm for me proof of building muscle is progressively lifting something heavier

smoky needle
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where cardio matters

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that means you are getting stronger

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but yeah, usually strength and mass correlates

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you should be getting weight and progressing in gym

gilded flume
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i only look at strength mass will come in due time if strong and not using dumbass technique

smoky needle
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you also need surplus and protein

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all 3

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energy, building blocks, and stimulus

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and recovery i guess, but that's automatic

gilded flume
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i still think big protein is a thing XD

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its been rigged from the start bro (put tin foil hat on)

smoky needle
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plenty of studies, eric helms is one of the names on the biggest meta on the topic

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1.6g per kg is referenced everywhere from that point

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1.6 is not much tho

gilded flume
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for optimal growth, not no growth

smoky needle
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yeah

gilded flume
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as long as i can see my numbers increasing steadily then i am happy monke

smoky needle
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maintenance is around 1g

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under 0.7g you will be losing muscle, training or not

gilded flume
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ig i will find out in due time

smoky needle
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because muscle cells die, and need to be replaced

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and there is no protein to be found to replace them

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but 1-1.6 is roughly gaining, but optimal growth from >1.6

gilded flume
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if there comes a time when i see myself not progressing then yeah i'll increase protein

smoky needle
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ye, when you are beginner it's cheat codes

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you can even gain muscle/strength at maintenance

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beginners and obese people are two categories that can do that magic

gilded flume
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i will ping you and say you were right all along :3

smoky needle
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because you have natural steroids

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as beginner

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your muscles are so sensitive to stimulus

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that's why people can progress so fast

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and even gain muscle with improper nutrition

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doens't matter how you train

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you will improve

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simply because it's that op

gilded flume
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but im not beginner anymore >.>

smoky needle
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<2 years is beginner

gilded flume
smoky needle
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it's not exact science

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well yeah, beginner/novice is the same category

gilded flume
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no?

smoky needle
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research doens't differentiate between them

gilded flume
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they have different strength standards for beginner and novice

smoky needle
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ye, that website

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but science is not that precise

gilded flume
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and this is also for 1rm not 3x5

smoky needle
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it's muddy categories, you know, what someone considers beginner or novice

gilded flume
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no?

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people have weight classes

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your progress depends on how much you lift and in what weight classes

smoky needle
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beginner is not an objetive measurable cateogry

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what's a beginner to you?

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i might disagree

gilded flume
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otherwise for me to be considered an intermediate and above i will have to be bulking to obese level for my height

smoky needle
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there is no commonly used definition

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what's a beginner programmer?

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people will disagree

gilded flume
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literally by just strength standards lol

smoky needle
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you can do that, sure

gilded flume
smoky needle
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some will base it on strength, some will base it on experience/years

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doens't matter

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for me <2 years is a beginner roughly

gilded flume
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i based my programming level of exp like drawing where its how much you know of the fundamentals

quaint musk
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You only have three buckets

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Even if everyone agreed what those buckets were, it's less and less useful the further you get from "week 1"

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Also things like "the fundamentals' - what is fundamental, exactly?

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Or "core Java" - I was unaware we have a Java subset called "core Java"

smoky needle
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yeah, they are vague categories

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so whatever

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but the newer you are to exercise, more sensitive your shit is to stimulus

quaint musk
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There is only swole and not swole

smoky needle
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it's like drugs, that first hit is hard to beat

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you get desensitized with each exposure

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and there is natural limit of muscle you can carry, genetically

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doesn't really matter, the point is that the only two categories that can gain muscle tissue in deficit/maintenance are untrained people and obese people

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all others need to be in caloric surplus to gain muscle

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if you are in deficit, cutting, you are losing weight and losing muscle (small amount)

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so that's pretty basic stuff

gilded flume
smoky needle
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ye it varies from person to person

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it's just a ballpark category

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some has been programming <2 years, 2-10years, 10+ years

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there is a difference

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on average

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just for illustrative purposes

gilded flume
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i think some people can progress a lot quicker within the 2 years to the point where they get to intermediate in 1 year for some definition of intermediate (definitely not me)

smoky needle
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yep

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the variance is huge

gilded flume
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oh i mean lifting not programming

smoky needle
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some people get there in few months

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good genetics, proper nutirtion, recovery, frequency, volume, intensity

gilded flume
smoky needle
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you can be 4x more effecitve than average person

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when you are a tryhard, dedicate your life around getting stronger

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but that doesn't matter, irrelevant crap

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my point was when you are new, you progress fast, you gain muscle easily

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my first year of lifting, i progressed +70kg on bench

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my last year of training i progressed maybe 5kg at best

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15x slower progress

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quite a debuff lol

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or well, starting is op

gilded flume
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yea i understand that, the stronger you get the slower gains in strength

quaint musk
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Macros on canned salmon are nuts

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600 calories, 90g protein

chrome terrace
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recently i've started biking in a trail just outside my house peepo_happy It's been fun, on the second day of doing it and I am already enjoyinmg the exercise and the connection with nature

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I am really unfit, so I cant go for long, but I want to be consistent and get better

mellow fog
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You'll get better soon. peepo_heart

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Keep Up!

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I have been going out for a walk nowadays too.

gilded flume
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Hehe I got neck and quad doms today 🩷

chrome terrace
mellow fog
mellow fog
chrome terrace
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I just got back from biking, I try to go a little further every day, might take a break tomorrow and then go again on saturday

mellow fog
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peepo_comfy progressing is fun.

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I'll go get some sleep since I woke up early today.

chrome terrace
chrome terrace
mellow fog
chrome terrace
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I am a teenager and that makes it worse because when you are a teenager you are supposed to sleep late and wake up late but school doesnt allow for that peepo_sad

mellow fog
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I'd say, just go by your heart not by the trend. In the end a healthy body and mind will lead to a bright future.

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And I am no one to say such cuz I myself have a broken schedule. pepekek

chrome terrace
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my mother is a professional in this stuff, she has a degree and everything and hse knows a lot

mellow fog
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Woah, never knew that's a thing during teenage.

chrome terrace
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yeah, it's unfortunately not taught in schools

mellow fog
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For me it has always been constant, sleeping early because I can't stay awake anymore bwhahaha. And tbh when I am asleep there is nothing that can make me wake up. You gotta jump on my belly to wake me up.😂

mellow fog
chrome terrace
mellow fog
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😭 noo, ion wanna die so soon.

gilded flume
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glute bridges at the gym today 🤗 🤗

mellow fog
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uwu Yay!

quaint musk
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Missed a week from travel + hotel I was staying in only had a treadmill

gilded flume
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1 more week left on this cut and then im gonna bulk back up to fatty weight 😊

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my body craving that improved recovery

open sluice
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I fasted all 30 days of ramadan and I went to the gym in that time

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I lost only 2 kilos but in that month I made an in body

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and compared to the in body before that my body fat went from 19.5% to 11.8%

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keep in mind I lost 2 kilos

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so I lost way more weight but I actually gained muscle too

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I think that's good :D

mellow fog
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Woah! That's crazy dude you went to the gym while fasting. pepekek

mellow fog
open sluice
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but the first day of the gym I actually had to go earlier

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because of a gathering of my family and relatives

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it's not hard especially when you get used to fasting

mellow fog
mellow fog
open sluice
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Maghrib (Evening) is when we break our fast

mellow fog
open sluice
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Ramadan is over now so I get back to my regular meals

mellow fog
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Well now your muscle growth will boost even more right?

open sluice
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pretty much because I have a lot more room to eat and get my protein in

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also when fasting I don't even drink water so my performance will definitely boost a lot haha

mellow fog
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Yeah, sounds great! Well Keep Up with em pumps.peepo_strong

open sluice
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thank you! :D

open sluice
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anyways guys today I'm going to try to hit a new leg press PR and possibly a bulgarian split squat PR

mellow fog
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Aye, I remember you had the OG profile pic with cat, headphones on drinking cola.

open sluice
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my bulgarian split squat PR was 44kg added weight at 8 reps
my leg press PR was 140kg but honestly this doesn't count because I did 15 reps of 140kg and it wasn't even that hard

open sluice
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I have a friend who has a modified photo of it

mellow fog
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😂 lol yeah I have seen that one too!

mellow fog
open sluice
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the more you know 😂

mellow fog
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: p lol i lack context most of the time but yeah I am aware why the cat has the hood on. XD

open sluice
mellow fog
open sluice
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I'm training leg day but also I'm going to the free weekly boxing session in my gym for the first time xD

mellow fog
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Yess! peepo_heart

mellow fog
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Beat em up!

chrome terrace
regal jay
open sluice
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Basically ive slept at every hour from 8pm to 9am in the span of 4 years 😭

chrome terrace
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that's not a good thing 😭

open sluice
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😭

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But alhamdulilah I adjusted my sleep schedule

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So I wake up early and sleep early

open sluice
gilded flume
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why cant i find a pastel pink pullup/dip belt 😭

quaint musk
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a random old guy at the gym has offered to train me

open sluice
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yeah man you are set for life

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these old men may not have the brawns but they got wisdom 🔥

mellow fog
quaint musk