#We figured out Vialism (It's Weilism)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lethal valve
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Hello again class,

The verified theorists on discord made an insane revelation last night. In the Zane Lowe interview in 2018, there was a picture on Tyler's desktop. This was of the Bourbaki group.

In the desktop pic I have linked a few people were edited in. In both original photos, there is a woman who is not apart of their group. This woman is called Simone Weil, Andre Weil's sister.

Simone Weil was a French philosopher and political-activist. She was described as having "a precocious gift for sympathy—and more than a hint of masochism. She sought out the darkness to escape the comfortable bourgeois life "

Simone Weil's death was considered a suicide. She starved herself, a hunger strike, in sympathy of starving French compatriots, and died of malnutrition.

Last night someone mentioned that "Weil" (Pronounced veil) sounds like a connection to Vialism. I decided to then look up "Weilism" and it came up with two results.

BOTH IN RELATION TO SIMONE WEIL

The first was a google groups message from 2010. On this page was a man saying he was going to perform a movement called "Weilism" where he would also go on a hunger strike.

"we will call this movement Weilism I have decided to go on Hunger Strike from Mondays to Fridays eating only Naan bread and drinking only water I will revert to normal on Saturdays and Sundays I decided this before I read more about Simone Weil's life on the Internet"

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He then goes onto use quite, cult like/religious language when describing Simone Weil's work. Usually a "fast" is something people do as a religious practice, however this man seems to be performing this act to honour his father, and as part of his political movement for the elections.

"Simone wished for a Gospel type Revolution - nuff said - use myleaflet design for the ward you are standing in stand as an Independent - Party Politics will end - the Houses of Parliament will become a House of Independents we will take over the Councils first - I will always put You before myself but will lead until Death"

Vialism and the glorious gone in lore is when suicide is glorified as a way of reaching paradise. This man is glorifying Simone Weil's suicide.

The second was a book written by the University of Windsor in the 1950s. This is what they had to say about Simone Weil

" Simone Weil, that socialist mystic whan scrupulosity prevented from crossing the final barrier to Catholic conversion, has influenced Miss Murdoch's writing . After recommending her (Simone's) Notebooks as an excellent introduction to Miss Weil's life and spiritual pilgrim age, Miss Murdoch stated that many of the views expressed on sacrifice , guilt, and essential goodness by Max Lejour in The Unicorn originated in "Weilian" philosophy. Quoting a Weilism: " It is of no avail to act above one's natural level Miss Murdoch suggested that this in ability to react to situations in other than a predetermined way (determined by one's own emotional and intellectual makeup) imprisons Michael Meade and other Murdoch characters. "
Once again, acting on/quoting Simone Weils principals was named "Weilism".

This part of our research was the part we fully agreed on the connection.

Now comes the wishy washy stuff.

There were many quotes we found that seemed like they may have links into the lore, but its not 100%.

The first is Weil's definition of "Kenosis".

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We found this extremely interesting. Not only does Kenosis remind us of the name Keons. But this is basically a lyric in Overcompensate. "Overtake your former self". Kenosis is also described as self-emptying. A way to become an available vessel. However, in a human nature term, and not a religious one, it denotes the continual epiklesis and self-denial of one's own human will and desire. "All I feel is denial, denial, denial".
The next quote, could sound like the definition of the creation of Dema and Trench.

Weil outlines a civilization based not on force, which turns a person into a thing, but on free labor, which in its engagement with and consent to necessary forces at play in the world, including time and death, allows for direct contact with reality.

This one could be a reference to seizing/smearing.

"Attention consists of suspending our thought, leaving it detached [disponible], empty [vide], and ready to be penetrated by the object; it means holding in our minds, within the reach of this thought, but on the lower level and not in contact with it, the diverse knowledge we have acquired which we are forced to make use of. … Above all our thought should be empty [vide], waiting [en attente], not seeking anything [ne rien chercher], but ready to receive in its naked truth the object that is to penetrate it."

Keons has the power to focus, we know this from the letters, is this Simone Weils power of attention? This quote sounds like someone preparing to be smeared/seized. In Jumpsuit, Tyler is standing still, waiting for Nico to approach him and smear him. In Levitate, Tyler is sitting staring into space before Tyler grabs him by the neck.

I may update this in the future, but this is what we found!

leaden imp
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Mad respect to Keons for typing this all up!

lethal valve
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thx

acoustic sapphire
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HOLY (pardon my french) SHIT THATS INSANE WHAT

lethal valve
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@queen herald also said this

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""Idk why i feed on emotion, there's a stomach inside my brain"

Yes that song is old BUT if your brain were to go on a hunger strike and just refuse to think or work properly or let you experiencec your life that could be likened to either the very dull and practically lifeless quality of Dema, OR it could be the "emptying of the self" thing we found last night and could relate back to seizing"

queen herald
wanton kayak
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keons cooked again

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unbelievable

queen herald
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Believable

lethal valve
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i just found it

wanton kayak
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all of y'all cooked

balmy inlet
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Super interesting - Thanks for putting this together.
Attention - clearing mind and waiting for whatever is coming to penetrate makes really good sense and does look like what is happening prior to being smeared - 'standing to attention' also makes me think of the military.
Really love the deep dive into Kenosis and Weilism - there is loads to mull over here - thanks muchly

proud aurora
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this is so cool

lethal valve
vestal pewter
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should I post this on the reddit thread too or do y'all think it's more separate

modern snow
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Keons if you keep cooking you might end world hunger holy

vestal pewter
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this is a weird blog post but it has an interesting quote at the top

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" Affliction is an uprooting of life, a more or less attenuated equivalent of death, made irresistibly present to the soul by the attack or immediate apprehension of pain. If there is complete absence of physical pain there is no affliction for the soul, because our thoughts can turn to any object. Thought flies from affliction as promptly and irresistibly as an animal flies from death.

[“The Love of God and Affliction,” in Waiting for God, p. 68.]"
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"thought flies from affliction as promptly and irresistibly as an animal flies from death"

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"death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit"

proud aurora
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the title "waiting for god" in itself has SO many applications and similarities in tøp
wow let me read the rest of this

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yeah this is fire
I really gotta read up on weilism instead of doing my homework

vestal pewter
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Weilism isn't really a thing outside of that google pages guy

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Weilism as stated in the other source is basically just a way to say "a saying of Weil's"

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1WR3VBidfw&ab_channel=GnosticWisdomNetwork

YouTube
Gnostic Wisdom Network
[Talk Gnosis] The Gnosis of Simone Weil w/ Nina Power & Emmalea Russo

Mystic, philosopher, and activist Simone Weil (1909-1943) was a fascinating thinker and activist whose influence only grows as the years go by. A convert from Judaism to Christianity her ideas about God's absence and the separation of humans have startling correspondences with Gnosticism and Kabbalah while staying unique. Her life story intersec...

▶ Play video
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gonna watch this

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goes into some details about her beliefs from their POV as it's different from a more standard gnostic POV

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some of her books

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Okay so Kenosis actually is different from Gnosis. It seems like the thoughts behind kenosis is instead of seeking out to know your true self and also knowing God once you do, Kenosis is a process of emptying yourself in the same way that God did (under Weil's beliefs) to create the world.

vagrant harness
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I'm French and it's "Simone Veil" not Simone Weil

vestal pewter
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According to the video/podcast above, affliction is something tangentially related to the concept of "suffering" you'd find in buddhism, etc., but affliction is something that is this terrible feeling that makes life unbearable (also prescribed by the divine to get people to realize their powerlessness?)

vestal pewter
vagrant harness
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Oh my bad

vestal pewter
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Veil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Weil

Simone Veil

Simone Veil (French pronunciation: [simɔn vɛj] ; née Jacob; 13 July 1927 – 30 June 2017) was a French magistrate, Holocaust survivor, and politician who served as Health Minister in several governments and was President of the European Parliament from 1979 to 1982, the first woman to hold that office. As health minister, she is best remembered f...

Simone Weil

Simone Adolphine Weil ( VAY, French: [simɔn adɔlfin vɛj]; 3 February 1909 – 24 August 1943) was a French philosopher, mystic, and political activist. Since 1995, more than 2,500 scholarly works have been published about her, including close analyses and readings of her work.After her graduation from formal education, Weil became a teacher. She t...

vagrant harness
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You're right

vestal pewter
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why delete @quick isle

quick isle
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I figured I just was sounding stupid, lol.

vestal pewter
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nah

vestal pewter
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I wonder if the outside thought is directly from her writing

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"or am I on the outside?" - the outside, tyler joseph (2021)

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btw guys, it's pronounced "vay"

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according to this podcast

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also wikipedia lol

quick isle
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To readd my deleted my messages then... It's intriguing how the farmer friend, to whom she entrusted her notes, seemed to try to mold her into a Catholic saint. He sort of "hijacked" her ideas a tad IMO.

vestal pewter
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that's actually common for gnostics lol

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or their thoughts are demonized

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a course on her

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oof it's expensive

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nvm

quick isle
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I borrowed a book from Web Archive to quickly have something to go through lol.

vestal pewter
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before I actually looked at the page I thought it would be free

dusky isle
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wow, you guys deserve an award for this one

mint ridge
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Ooooh Simone Weil
Well I’m happy to read her name

mint ridge
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I’ll try to make the researches in French about Weil, to see if I can establish more connections

polar wyvern
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WEILISM

forest wasp
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i guess this is one of those what tyler said before in an interview that we're still missing some bits of the lore during Trench and now i think this is the BIG ONE

polar wyvern
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i havent read it yet but the pronounciation is the same so i believe this theory

lethal valve
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thx

dusky isle
proud aurora
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the way he basically confirmed the doorway man would be important has me bouncing off the walls because WHO IS THIS MAN

rough tinsel
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OH MY GOD YOU COOKED HERE

lethal valve
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thx

rough tinsel
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AS USUAL

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GUH

vestal pewter
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based on the one quote you have Keons, I'm definitely not a huge fan of Weil's spiritual approach (to gnosis, or kenosis for her), at least not in how she words some of it. It feels dark, waiting for some force to take control/feed you "information"

maybe this is how gnosis is in a lot of gnostic thought, but my personal interpretation of it as my knowledge stands currently is that it is an internal process, more like where you reach deeper into yourself mentally and spiritually, not where you empty yourself out

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but like I said before, Weil has a different approach to gnosticism than most mainline gnostic thought, because she believes more that God emptied himself to create the cosmos/world (which is actually correct (in gnosticism) from a certain point of view, but I wouldn't say it's wholly accurate) than that God self-manifested various beings out of himself, where one eventually made an error that created the physical universe separate from the mental/spiritual (the plemora)

vestal pewter
# vestal pewter based on the one quote you have Keons, I'm definitely not a huge fan of Weil's s...

"Attention consists of suspending our thought, leaving it detached [disponible], empty [vide], and ready to be penetrated by the object; it means holding in our minds, within the reach of this thought, but on the lower level and not in contact with it, the diverse knowledge we have acquired which we are forced to make use of. … Above all our thought should be empty [vide], waiting [en attente], not seeking anything [ne rien chercher], but ready to receive in its naked truth the object that is to penetrate it." the quote i'm referring to btw

rough tinsel
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At the "risk" of incurring the displeasure of some verified-theorists, I have to disagree 😉

Nope, vialism is not „Weilism“

If the title „We figured out vialism“ is just meant as sheer irony I apologise beforehand for my perhaps too clear critique. Bc that claiming immediately irritated me. But no offence intended, just arguments for an opposing view.
Like so many of us I very much appreciate the interested, pleasurable search for all sorts of connections in the lore. I also know myself how sometimes it can quickly carry you away. And that's exactly what happens when you don't read your sources closely enough because you're too keen to reinforce your own idea. I suspect that has happened several times here.

Just let me explain:

Firstly, claiming to have "figured out vialism" is pretty presumptuous, to put it politely. Especially when the quotes used are linked to assumptions without intellectual care.

An essential part of Simone Weil‘s faith, which had strong Gnostic parallels, was the disregard or rejection of material things. This is why she also partly refused the necessary nourishment when she contracted tuberculosis in 1943, from which she died in the same year. So at least it cannot be said with certainty that she committed suicide.
Unfortunately, we must notice, that your subsequent arguments are already based on an unstable foundation.
Then to use the quote of an unknown political lunatic (who wanted to go on hunger strike in memory of S. W.) to prove you thesis just because he uses the term "Weilism" is a „bit“ far-fetched, isn't it?

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This leads to your conclusion: „Vialism and the glorious gone in lore is when suicide is glorified as a way of reaching paradise. This man is glorifying Simone Weil's suicide.“

And you think Tyler builds his whole concept on this shaky ground? I doubt it.

Then the second part, which tries to find an explanation for „overtake your former self“.

Kenosis (translated as „act of emptying“) was interpreted differently among adepts of Gnosticism and also among Christian apologets. But the most accepted and shared interpretation sees „the emptying“ as Jesus‘ voluntary renunciation of divine powers, he emptied himself from his desires. I‘m not Christian btw.

Simone Weil‘s interpretation is rather similar to eastern meditation context, where you have to empty your mind from all wordly thoughts, from the desires of the self. Though being able to reach a state of attention, which may at least lead to spiritual knowledge or even as a final target to enlightenment. Which can be read as union with god in gnostic beliefs.

Or in a less spiritual sense: to be openminded, without prejudices or preconceived concepts, without the attachments of the self blocking one's clear view and the true realisation of what is truly real.

Now where is the connection to seizing here, which is overtaking by controlling a dead body. Does the dead citizen empties his mind before he can be seized? lol

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Then you are again quoting S. W.:
"Attention consists of suspending our thought, leaving it detached, empty, and ready to be penetrated by the object; it means holding in our minds, within the reach of this thought, but on the lower level and not in contact with it, the diverse knowledge we have acquired which we are forced to make use of. … Above all our thought should be empty, waiting, not seeking anything, but ready to receive in its naked truth the object that is to penetrate it."

and arguing: „This one could be a reference to seizing/smearing.“
„Keons has the power to focus, we know this from the letters, is this Simone Weils power of attention? This quote sounds like someone preparing to be smeared/seized. In Jumpsuit, Tyler is standing still, waiting for Nico to approach him and smear him.“

Sorry, but that’s utter nonsense and illogical because it’s mixing the „Seizer“ (Keons) as the active part (focus) with the seized person (preparing to be seized) as the passive part.

Again, as I mentioned in the beginning, I nevertheless enjoy every deep dive attempt and really acknowledge the passion and work which was put in.

vestal pewter
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I'd love to hear more of your thoughts

queen herald
rough tinsel
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Yes, Gnosis is the spiritual knowledge and Kenosis is seen as a way to achieve Gnosis by emptying. But there are different interpretations of what is emptied from what. That’s the interesting part. And bc I read a lot of mysticism text a looong while ago, I know that Simone Weil has been very interested in Eastern philosophy and religion. That’s the source of her interpretation of the term of „attention“.

vestal pewter
rough tinsel
leaden imp
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But do u not see how rude it is, to say something is 'utter nonsense and illogical' especially when you yourself could be wrong? only the band really know the full truth at this point.

rough tinsel
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I know what you mean, but it was only this sentence, which was illogical in itself. Sorry, I‘m not a native speaker.

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Would you say, it is rude, when I mention that 2+2 is not 5?

leaden imp
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I am not going to aruge this, but saying 2+2 is not 5 is a fact, saying something is 'utter nonsense and illogical' at this point in time, when it cannot be proved correct by ANYONE here. that is what makes it rude.

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Are you Tyler Joseph? Or Josh Dun? Or Mark? no therfore its not respectful or polite to call something 'utter nonsense and illogical'

rough tinsel
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Read the sentence and you will understand what I mean

leaden imp
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I did read it buddy

scarlet cliff
rough tinsel
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Can we pls come back to discussing. I see that „utter nonsense“ was a bit to provocative and I apologize @Keons

queen herald
# rough tinsel Hi Nick, excuse me, but I learned to be clear and to name things the way I mean ...

I applaud your former occupation and literary prowess but let me push back just a little bit on some of your ideas

  1. everyone is assuming everything, that's what theory means. no one knows for sure what the mind of tyler joseph was concocting when writing this, and no it is not far fetched or overly doubtful to believe that he would have drawn themes and ideas from a little-known historical character's tragic life while writing the story of Trench. Doesn't mean it all translates directly and he would have made his own assumptions if true, but I happen to agree with OP that the connections are very strong and there is a reasonable likelihood that he came across this story in the past

  2. no one (i think) ever said Simone Weil committed intentional suicide, they DID say that she died most likely as a result of malnutrition and starvation. Sure there is no coroner's report, but even if it was part of her religious beliefs to deny material satisfaction and that was how she ended up starving, that falls in line with the theory so I'm not entirely sure what difference it makes.

  3. You seem to be hyper focused on Tyler's inspiration being a very well founded and concrete narrative, rather than loose ideas that he could've drawn inspiration from. These ideas - that there is a Weilism pronounced as Vialism, and that movement (yes i know it was coined by a crazed lunatic politician) involves hunger strikes, and that Simone Weil is the sister of one of the Nicolas Bourbaki group members - already make it a very strong tie in to the universe we've been learning about so it's not illogical to theorize about it.

  4. Lastly, i'd love to revisit the fact that this is a kind/gentle but firm recommendation - if you can find ways to be more tolerating of things you don't agree with, that would probably be good. Saying that theory titles irritate you and are illogical/utter nonsense just isn't the kindest way to say it. By all means disagree at your free will, just nicely!

rough tinsel
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I‘m used to hard and sharp discussions with my friends. Here you sometimes have the feelings you walk on eggs.

vestal pewter
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Weilisim would be pronounced more like "Vayism"

queen herald
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And the 2 + 2 = 5 thing isn't a fair analogy because that's a fact and none of what we're doing here is facts, just theories

vestal pewter
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A nicer way to say it would have been leap in logic

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communicates the same meaning without being as hostile

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on the other hand I also think that zero was being open and generally pleasant but made some poor word choices

crimson abyss
vestal pewter
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and I think that such a reaction can be quick to push away from discussion

queen herald
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Hopefully no reactions came off as too averse :)) there's a specific culture of toleration and back-and-forth in the server theory channels that should allow for all kinds of disagreements and pushing back on ideas, there's just a nuance to doing that inoffensively

vestal pewter
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yes of course

rough tinsel
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Ok 😎

vestal pewter
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(i also am apparently triggered by quick reaction emotes from the react function)

lethal valve
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ok im gonna ignore the way you put stuff and just move on but

  1. the title is just something to catch peoples attention, we had clearly made a breakthrough with where the name possible concept of vialism may have stemmed from and wanted people to see that. I also did read my sources. A lot of sources. So I'm a bit offended that I'm being told I didn't but oh well.

  2. The part where we talked about Simone Weils ||suicide||. It was claimed to be by MULTIPLE sources that the coroner deemed it a ||suicide||. Yes the tuberculosis was a factor, but the main factor of her death was that she refused to eat the amount to live even AFTER being told she was going to die if she kept doing it. Therefore, she knew she would die in the end, she was told by doctors. Thats why its been considered as a ||suicide||.

  3. The unknown political lunatic! Yes he seemed insane. The way we found "Weilism" which would have been pronounced extremely close to VIALISM, was by looking it up. And only two results came up, both to do with simone weil, we didnt even make the connection to her before that.

His hunger strike was not in memory of simone weil, it was in memory of his father. Which wasn't clearly explained in his post. In his post he was glorifying what killed Simone Weil. Which is very much linked to Vialism in lore. That in my opinion is not far fetched to say. I do not think tyler built the whole concept around this one man. However, the fact it was written in 2010, around the time Tyler may have found out about the bourbaki group is very telling.

Also the fact there is another book from the 50s referring to Simone Weils practice as "Weilism" is also extremely telling that this was connected to Simone Weil. Its not just connected to the crazy lunatic.

  1. The dead citizen's mind has been emptied! You kinda proved my point there. Their mind is gone. Thats what makes then susceptible to being seized. The emptying of a vessel. :)
leaden imp
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Keons cookin like ususal

proud aurora
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as always!!!

vestal pewter
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Zero still had a lot of worthwhile analysis that is worth being actively considered so please also don’t respond in ways that may push them away

lethal valve
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also on the "illogical and complete nonsense" part.

I was drawing theories from multiple parts of the lore.

It wasnt keons has the power of focus AND Tyler does this.

Thats my fault, i clearly didnt use the proper english to explain it.

Keons has the power of focus which was clearly used in someway to enforce the rules of Dema. If this power of focus is used as a way to weaponise the power of attention it would make sense to me. As we know Tyler uses a similar line in never take it.

In regards to Tyler, if Kenosis does make him susceptible to seizing, it could be a way to make the process a lot more painful. And if the citizens of dema have been taught about this in a way of bad rather than good then that is very possible. They have been made to believe its easier to do that then fight the process.

Another thing we theorised is that similar to the way Simone Weils theories was used for the opposite way as she intended for it to be by that political lunie , the bishops may be doing something similar. Taking good religious ideals and weaponising them.

Again not everything i say its fact, its theories!

lethal valve
vestal pewter
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A glorification of self sacrifice is present in a lot of early Christian events and I’d actually be hesitant to say the 2010 man was an inspiration as well actually

vestal pewter
lethal valve
vestal pewter
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That is certainly true. I also think he was pulling from the marxist aspects of weil's writings as well

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which may be important to consider as I remember some discussion of SAI as being leftist in that nature in some ways as well, but the band definitely tries to shy away from political connotations

rough tinsel
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A term like „Weilism“ is common to name the opus of an author or philosopher as a whole. And S. W. has written a lot of divergent stuff on different topics. Not only religion and mysticism. To narrow it down on parallels to vialism is the reach I tried to disagree with.

queen herald
queen herald
# rough tinsel A term like „Weilism“ is common to name the opus of an author or philosopher as ...

I'll agree with that! She absolutely wrote and spoke about a LOOTTTT of things besides just what we drew parallels with. Similarly the Bourbaki group researched/wrote/spoke on a LOOOTTT of things that tyler hasn't gone anywhere near, but there's confirmed parallels there too. I wonder if he couldn't have drawn from just that specific part of her work and story since it matched pretty closely with the story he was trying to tell tylerblobthinking

rough tinsel
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I read about „down votees“ against a response on the reddit version of the theory. Is that the culture you would support? That’s not what Nick was recommending as a kind and tolerant discussion culture, innit?

vestal pewter
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yeah through context clues it can be inferred that keons is referring to weilism in a very specific context and really is meaning that vialism may be a recontextualized fictional version of aspect's of Weil's ideas as related to spirituality

lethal valve
leaden imp
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its not them being rude

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An upvote = they agree. A downvote = they disagree

mint ridge
vestal pewter
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downvotes are actually supposed to be used for posts that don't contribute or are irrelevant to the discussion... but in practice it doesn't work like that

queen herald
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downvotes can be disagreement, they can be an expression of "hey that's not an appropriate post/message/comment", or they could be used to be petty. hopefully only the first two are common, but every now and then they can become petty

vestal pewter
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i actually upvoted that reddit post for the same reasons I'm defending zero here

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they can also be emotionally harmful if you feel it wasn't deserving so /shrug

rough tinsel
mint ridge
dusty hingeBOT
lethal valve
leaden imp
queen herald
vestal pewter
rough tinsel
vestal pewter
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I'm inserting my own personal hang-ups in here so I'll step back from that particular discussion

queen herald
lethal valve
vestal pewter
lethal valve
vestal pewter
mint ridge
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I mean her hunger strike has more something like a political act, she tried to engage all her strength in her protestation
In her point of view I suppose it’s a win-win, because if she dies the anger will go against the people that « let her die », if they change their mind, she also win

And, if she was already sick maybe in a way she have nothing to lose

What I’m trying to say is that from her perspective it’s a political fight, for a better society, not an act of self-destruction

queen herald
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yeah definitely agree with that!

vestal pewter
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that line from neon gravestones is still about self-destruction though

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it depends on how you feel about suicide as a political tool

mint ridge
lethal valve
vestal pewter
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also see christian martyrdom

queen herald
vestal pewter
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yeah but I wasn't arguing that

queen herald
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oh

mint ridge
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(Plus, she’s at least a bit a marxist

As Marx said a worker that doesn’t have any property has only one thing to sell if he wants to survive : his work capacity - in other words, his own body

By engaging her own body and surviving condition, that’s a really materialistic and marxist way to fight for her ideas, keep in mind that she’s a philosopher in the first place

vestal pewter
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I meant, do you think suicide is a good tool for political or protest purposes

lethal valve
queen herald
vestal pewter
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is self-immolation a powerful message? Yes. Is it something that people should do? Many can debate about it

lethal valve
queen herald
vestal pewter
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which goes against the final line of paprika

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oh fuck

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from her perspective

queen herald
vestal pewter
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my bad

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no we agree

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I misread paprika

queen herald
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Bahaha

vestal pewter
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I wonder where my replies about early christian martyrdom are

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someone else also cited that line of neon gravestones in response

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unless that was you

queen herald
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uhhhh it might've been

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i forget

red dagger
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“Gnosis” is also way too similar to “Genesis”

vestal pewter
queen herald
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the christian martyrdom thing is such a grey area tbh. to go seeking persecutioni and ultimate martyrdom because you think it's some fanciful ending is (imo) kinda really twisted and not at all healthy behavior. but to see those who were persecuted and killed for their beliefs unprovoked, who never backed down on what they thought, as strong people who should be respected, that's good right? so it depends on the time period/context/definition of martyrdom

rough tinsel
vestal pewter
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I just think it's interesting to consider

queen herald
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absolutely it is

vestal pewter
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well not in the way I'm familiar with it, perhaps in its more modern form

mint ridge
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Im thinking about something, a line I heard in a French song by Georges Brassens that is nowadays well known

In English it will be something like this :
« Dying for ideas, okay, but slowly » (in french : Mourir pour des idées, d’accord, mais de mort lente)

That could be interpreted in many ways, but for keeping it simple, it’s an ironic way to say that to commit s** to defend your ideas is unfortunately useless. You have to live, if you truly wants to face your ennemies (inside and outside)
It appears cynical but it’s actually a message of hope, and peace, and very close of the last stanza of Neon Gravestones

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It’s probably not relevant

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But well
Still interesting

vestal pewter
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no that's fantastic

mint ridge
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https://youtu.be/A2n5_q0121E?si=cnUoeUR_6Y0H2HOY

YouTube
Georges Brassens
Georges Brassens - Mourir pour des idées (Audio Officiel)

Georges Brassens - Mourir pour des idées (Audio Officiel)
Retrouvez la discographie de Georges Brassens :
Commandez et écoutez : https://GeorgesBrassens.lnk.to/discographieID

Suivez Georges Brassens :
Abonnez-vous à sa chaîne YouTube :
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3_2Y8OTKzRN89VCwfXEL0Q?sub_confirmation=1
Facebook : https://www.facebook...

▶ Play video
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For people who likes French songs 🤣

rough tinsel
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Maybe another aspect of the glorious gone I haven’t yet heard of: they are not really dead by committing scd, but they are kind of living deads bc they surrendered to their mental problems. They are empty vessels which are only filled with remnants of their former life and now the mental illnesses are occupying their whole mind. Like they become their illness.

queen herald
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mindless zombies walking around with a limp and a hunch

rough tinsel
rough tinsel
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Then the bishops are the vultures „feeding on the deads“. It could also explain, why they could still „use“ the bodies.

vestal pewter
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Ooh

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Yeah that’s great

runic zinc
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keons i think you did a great job here! <3

lethal valve
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thank you audre ❤️❤️

polar wyvern
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damn ill read this after i finish the current book ik reading cus theres a whole ass novel here

lethal valve
modern snow
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This is a wonderful theory and I applaud

modern snow
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I think You’ve done a wonderful job here regardless of criticism…it’s all just a theory 😭

proud aurora
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agreed fr

lethal valve
forest wasp
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i still cant believe that we mightve cracked the whole lore

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or the origins of it atleast

lethal valve
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weilism being referred to as a religion

mint ridge
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I just noticed something really funny

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The address for the twenty one pilot’s show in Lyon, France is « 5 avenue Simone Veil »

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Simone Veil is a french activist known for fighting for the women’s rights, especially for abortion

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Her name is pronounced exactly as Simone Weil, but it’s not the same person

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Probably just a coincidence but

lethal valve
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i mean its an INSANE coincidence

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like absolutely insane

proud aurora
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okay uh that is a genuinely insane coincidence

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filming on clancy way and touring at some place on 5 avenue simone veil
dude 😭

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at this rate what are the chances they're doing it on purpose

balmy inlet
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Yeah - I saw someone mention that the other day, and absolutely cannot be a coincidence in my opinion, deliberately chosen I suspect, which indicates that looking at Simone Weil is looking in the right place.

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The unknown child beside Andre Weil is also suspected of being a girl, wish I could remember where I read that, but I def read that somewhere,

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I should dig out where I read that!

proud aurora
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you should! that'd be interesting

balmy inlet
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OK digging, but might take a while

lethal valve
balmy inlet
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Ahhh that must be what I'm thinking of - Thank you 🙂

vestal pewter
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I think we spoke about that arena before the dates and shows were revealed

jagged heart
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nice.

lethal valve
jagged heart
raw arch
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Ahhh this is definitely a moment I hate that verified theories got purged in the more recent hack. I had SO MUCH written out about Simone from like 2018-2021.

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But yeah, given the storylines connection to religion and Simone's philosophical work, imo there's no way there's not a connection.

lethal valve
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shes so cool

fast jay
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I've spent so much looking into that photo

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I can't guarantee anything but I'm nearly certain it's Sylvie Weil his daughter

fast jay
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The only person i can find that's credited for the photo is Konrad Jacobs, a photographer and more importantly a mathematician, in 1956. In Sylvie's book 'at home with Andre and Simon Weil' she writes multiple chapters about going on walks with her father. If when it's credited to is correct she would have been around 14 which i think is possible based on the picture. She even says in the book she was around that age when she went on walks with her father most. I haven't found anything specifically linking Konrad Jacobs to Andre Weil besides the photo, but they were both famous mathematicians at that time so I don't find it unlikely they had met. I'll have to look into Konrad Jacobs more and see if i can find any more evidence he was actually the photographer.

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Also the book has a lot of unique insights into Simon Weil's life and is definitely worth reading if you're interested in her

celest lance
#

Might be nothing but her brief writing on 'metaxu' could be a really interesting connection considering the entire concept of Trench and Banditos.
("Metaxy as used by Voegelin refers to the permanent place where man is in-between two poles of existence.")

She also wrote: "This world is the closed door. It is a barrier. And at the same time it is the way through." ... "Two prisoners whose cells adjoin communicate with each other by knocking on the wall. The wall is the thing which separates them but it is also their means of communication. It is the same with us and God. Every separation is a link." ... "The essence of created things is to be intermediaries. They are intermediaries leading from one to the other and there is no end to this. They are intermediaries leading to God. We have to experience them as such."
probably a reach for me to say this reminds me of the blue door, and the boys stepping through it into live shows. But something in general about music / creation in relation to the finite/infinite or material/transcendent is extremely tyler joseph

proud aurora
chrome cypress
#

Adding this here too, some ideas on Reddit during sai surrounding Simone’s philosophy and how the lore could be going for a symbolic balance between Andre and Simone’s principles

image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png
lethal valve
proud aurora
swift lotus
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Yes

proud aurora
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Yes

lethal valve
#

yes

proud dock
lethal valve
proud dock
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that too

granite timber
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AAAGAGAGAHAHAHAH @lethal valve OM GYAHYHD

lethal valve
granite timber
granite timber
granite timber
lethal valve
indigo abyss
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SOOOO you know she wrote about "the IMPLICIT love of God"

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and then tyler I guess writes about an implicit demand for proof

indigo abyss
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This quote reminds me of Trees : "God is longing to come down to those in affliction.
As soon as a soul is disposed to consent, though it were the
last, the most miserable, the most deformed of souls, God
will precipitate himself into it in order, through it, to look
at and listen to the afflicted. Only as time passes does the
soul become aware that he is there. But, though it finds no
name for him, wherever the afflicted are loved for them-
selves alone, it is God who is present."

lethal valve
vestal pewter
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another one from them I found

jade hollow
#

Reading about your weilism theory made me nose bleed

green scarab
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i can’t be bothered to scroll all the way back up again

lethal valve
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lol

frosty yew
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IT'S LORE

queen herald
#

I WEILED

lethal valve
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I COMFIRMED IT

frosty yew
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KEONS WON THE DEMA

image.png
quick isle
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Oh boy!

proud aurora
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you win bro

leaden imp
#

Hi @rough tinsel! You should read up!

proud aurora
#

LMAOOO

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honestly.

modern snow
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They are a scientist.

proud aurora
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that's "former scientist" to you pal

modern snow
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Oh I’m “sorry”

granite timber
lethal valve
#

oh heyyyy

granite timber
#

FUCK

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HUGE

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CONGRATULATIONS EVERYONE

lethal valve
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THANKSSS

granite timber
#

keons if I could cook you food I would that really is the best j can do dude this is fucking crazy

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did you get a video 👀

lethal valve
lethal valve
granite timber
#

just pls gimme

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im gonna frame it

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oh oHoH

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I can clean it up to get the clear audio

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rx7 it

lethal valve
warm prairie
#

mfers making me read

granite timber
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im gonna try to clean it up nonetheless later