Double Album Confirmed

[tame tendon]

Oh come off it the 25 is not talking about next year it’s talking about 25 songs

Even if it also meant next year a double entendre would just be weird

[sleek pendant]

you never know that it isn’t

there’s a high possibility it could be

[tame tendon]

Seems unlikely they’d make us wait a whole year

[sleek pendant]

Imagine Dragons - Mercury 1 & 2
Radiohead - Kid A and Amnesiac
just two examples of double albums released the year after the first instalment

and Radiohead were mentioned in The Only Band in the World

[tame tendon]

Sure but were they secret double albums

[sleek pendant]

well imagine dragons one was named “Mercury - Act 1” so it was plausible that there would be speculation of a second act

[dark ermine]

I just don’t see plausible to drop a new record in the middle of a world tour

[tame tendon]

Why not they dropped Heathens in between the 2 tours for Blurryface

So they’ve done that before you realize that right

[lean mango]

Yes, but that's between tours, not between legs or in the middle of a tour, and it's only one song

But personally I really think we should keep an open mind, they've said this era will be unusual and we don't know yet what all that will entail

[dark ermine]

Only one song and it was for a soundtrack of a movie

[cloud lynx]

the new letter pieces are making me doubt so much

[lean mango]

Doubt what?

[cloud lynx]

idk

about the second album/another song

maybe they only have material for one or a few songs, but at the same time not all the songs on Clancy were full of narration

[lean mango]

I don't see the connection there

[cloud lynx]

where we at, lore-wise

[lean mango]

For me it's the opposite, this feels like it's the beginning hints of what this era was supposedly going to be from the beginning

A lore-heavy album that concludes the storyline and makes everything clear

[dark ermine]

Yeah if the era and lore really ended with Paladin Strait they wouldn’t send all this letters for EVERY show

[cloud lynx]

For sure

I think I shouldn't have talked

I'm tired and I struggle to express myself

[cloud lynx]

I meant second album vs only one song or a few songs

Cuz the letters we're getting and the revolution from inside and this feels like an almost end

[lean mango]

Ah, I see, i misunderstood that

[tame tendon]

Im confident we’ll get a bunch more songs but it is possible for only one music video for the end, imagine if they actually made 25 music videos

[lean mango]

I thought the same at first but then I thought of the comparison to Infinity War/Endgame and I think there could be a lot to go with even a final confrontation, especially the more other characters get involved, and if we consider bringing the aftermath to a good final conclusion too

Even tho I think these characters are just random rebels I still think it's a new perspective that could be given some more time for elaboration

[teal compass]

Looking at the digital remains stuff it also seems like there’s quite a bit of material they could use that we haven’t seen yet

There’s a lot of lore based lyrics in that revolving around things that simply haven’t even happened yet and if we take them at their word that they did in fact plan out this story this whole time as they keep saying it doesn’t really make sense that they’d have a whole scrapped plot line in the first draft of the album that’s completely different from the actual ending we get

[tame tendon]

That’s just it, it’s not scrapped it’s gonna release eventually

[graceful hill]

All this is building up for in avengers secret wars when clancy walks through a portal with some antlers and says never hesitate to overcompensate

And then seizes doom and wipes out the whole army

[modern atlas]

that would make sense why theres just random bird sounds for 2 minutes

so they could line it up like that

Is there potentially two drops? Something November 14 (11/14), not necessarily music, and something June 2025 (6/25)?

[lean mango]

If that were the intent, I'd assume both are meant to mean specific dates

that's one reason I don't really buy the 6 25 = June 2025, because why use that level of specificity?

if they know it'll be June they should be able to plan a day already, if not then why are they even hinting at the month?

also knowing the month is still vague and doesn't give us a lot of info

Also, as far as I know, any time in the past that they've used 3 numbers to hint at a release, it's been specifically month + day, not year + month

[graceful hill]

maybe its the sixth day of 2025

lol

[lean mango]

I think it was meant to be June 25th 2024 but they had to change it because of the delays

which is why we haven't gotten any additional 6/25 hints since then

or even 25 hints I think

or maybe that was meant to be the Paladin MV release date

and they pushed it back because we were so restless

but eh, that doesn't add up, they wouldn't have said early June

[graceful hill]

imagine a whole album just sitting waiting to be released

[lean mango]

kinda typical for double albums

they're usually made at the same time as the first one but release later

[modern atlas]

because they don’t know exactly when it will be ready so 6/25 is just a generality

[lean mango]

If they didn't know, they wouldn't give a specific hint

[tough timber]

i'm trying to chill a little bit and not assume that every little thing means something

but that's a hard switch to flip /hj

[empty jasper]

To make sense of the fact that the ending seems ambiguous and that the claim was that everything would be resolved with Clancy and thus the whole double/companion album (but not released at the same time?) theorizing quagmire that we all find ourselves in:

-CLANCY (part 1, what was released)
-YƆИA⅃Ɔ (part 2, mirrored self and what's revealed when Clancy is awake again; ties into the claim of everything resolving with "Clancy" since it's two sides of the same coin, even if it can be considered a separate album per say)

[brazen leaf]

i still believe we’re getting a deluxe or something tbh

the ultimate chapter 25 wasn’t given to us for no reason

[radiant forum]

i just thought it’s a day that puts the least pressure on them to release whatever the hell they are doing.

i hope it’s just one more song

because i feel like another album would be kinda more of the same that we got- oldies station addresses a feeling of creativity going down the drain and i’d just rather hear everything poured into a song than an album of like 10 unrelated songs, 1 that vaguely connects and then one that’s the ending or smth

i’d be more down for an ep though- shorter and could be more interesting and creative

[split island]

An EP would be way more fun to have as well than just a new special edition Clancy version

[radiant forum]

yeah

[lean mango]

Huh, I don't know what you mean about Oldies Station, that's not what he's saying

It's about being able to come to terms with his fears and insecurities so they don't control his life anymore

When they come up, he can fight back more easily now

Remember, part of the Dema metaphor isn't just the mental health layer, but him feeling trapped in the music industry and unsure of the direction to go, with pressure to make what will sell well or what he thinks people will like

He's finding that direction now, and he said in the Clancy livestream that a big part of why Lavish is on the album is to pave the way for them to make weirder music later

[tame tendon]

That’s a great reason he was like “ whatever deal with it”

[lean mango]

An additional album would probably be completely different, especially if it's the true album that's been planned as the finale from the beginning

[tame tendon]

I don’t really know about a whole different album it’s gotta be an extension of the first part of Clancy starting after Paladin

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 12!

[tame tendon]

Nice

[tame tendon]

I don’t really like to think of ultimate chapter as a whole different album like an extension of Clancy

[lean mango]

Ye, that's not what I'm saying

[tame tendon]

From when they first announced Clancy they marketed it as the last chapter in the story that whole lie has been the reason we think it’s not over imagine where we’d be if they didn’t say Clancy was the end in the first place

[lean mango]

When I say completely different, I don't mean it would be nothing like Clancy, but more like a "two sides of the same coin" thing

it likely would've been made in the same sessions as Clancy

but they would've reserved their weirder, more lore-heavy, and maybe darker (musically) ideas for the 2nd album

and there are hints towards this

first, Clancy as an album is nothing like we were told it would be

They said it'd sound a lot darker, which it does a bit here and there but not really overall. They also said it'd be the most overtly lore-heavy album we've ever had, which is definitely not true

They also said it would be the finale, which isn't true for now

My theory is that they had so many ideas and songs that they split it in two parts

and that Clancy, the album we have now, was a relatively new idea, and the true ending album is what was planned for a long time

In the Midwest Indigo production peek, Paul hinted that there's a section of the song they didn't use which they may have recycled as a new song

At any rate, Oldies Station is definitely not saying Tyler's losing creativity, I think he's far from it and he's finding his confidence in his ideas more than ever before

[tame tendon]

When did they say it’d be the most lore heavy album

[lean mango]

Interviews in the SAI era

They both said it'd be more lore-heavy, and the most open and clear about the lore

they also said it'd be a lot darker, more of a return to Trench's sound, and apart from Overcompensate, this album isn't really that either

But the distorted pad that comes in at the end of Paladin MV feels like that style too

[tame tendon]

What are they planning this might drive me crazy if we don’t get something after the FPE message is decoded

[lean mango]

I really hope at that point we at least get a hint/teaser of what's coming

I do like the 11/14 theory

but none of the dates I've theorized about since the album came out have been accurate

[tame tendon]

October 25 could be something cause it’s also between the US and Australia legs and it’s a Friday

[brazen leaf]

i think we will get smth at the end of the tour in 2025

[lean mango]

Yea, pretty cold take tho, that's the most common theory

[deft geode]

There's a reason it's the most common one though. They were just expressing their opinion anyway

[tame tendon]

I feel like it’ll be the end of this leg since the FPE isn’t going anywhere else. I know that might make the people in other countries feel left out of the hype but at least they’d hear ultimate chapter songs live

[lean mango]

yea, but it's not that helpful for people to come in here every day just to say they agree with what the majority of people have already expressed

it doesn't contribute anything to the conversation

[copper sky]

A couple people ik irl think it’s called Ultimus Capitulus 25 because they’re not going to release it until 2025– as opposed to the idea that it will have 12 congs to turn Clancy’s 13 into 25

[lean mango]

Yea, that's generally the most common theory

Could be both IMO

also is your name a They Might Be Giants reference?

[copper sky]

It is!!!

[copper sky]

That’s the impression I get too

[lean mango]

ayyy, nice!

[tough timber]

the more i think about it the more i think there has to be more on the horizon whether that's the end of the current tour schedule or before

i can't imagine they would leave so many hints unintentionally and build up hype for something that just doesn't exist

[olive plume]

it would be very cruel

honestly, even tyler just going “does it sound like the end?” during the livestream would be cruel enough alone if we never got anything else

[tame trout]

could be unrelated but I think this alludes to why they keep having fans sing the judge outside the venues before the show. they’re really pushing the whole “YOU be the judge YOU tell us if it’s over” narrative.

[dark ermine]

They NEVER released so much new lore (letters, shirts etc.) during a tour.
NEVER.
Something is definitely gonna happen.

[tame tendon]

That’s true if they’re showing us these letters now why wouldn’t they release more music during the tour

[lean mango]

Maybe the letters are to let us know there will be something but keep us busy until tour ends

I still think November is possible tho

[violet terrace]

I feel like if a double album or an extra song or anything happens, it’ll be in May 2025. The last show of the tour is May 14, blurryface turns 10 on May 17, Clancy turns 1 on May 24 (was originally supposed to be May 17 also but got delayed). I feel like something has to happen around then

[tame tendon]

I’m strongly against the 2025 theory because I don’t think they’d give us all these clues now and make us wait a whole year, if any music is gonna come out it’ll be after the US leg also because the FPE is only on the US leg

And that’s where the clues come from

[violet terrace]

It’d be so nice not to have to wait a whole year for anything new. Those dates just gather together so perfectly that it feels like, to me, something could happen. But maybe they’ll just do an anniversary livestream for blurryface or something small

[tame tendon]

Oh come on they do not gather together perfectly they’re already giving us these letters in the middle of the tour why not new music

[tough timber]

have said it before and will say it again
i don't know why they would do this but i still think moving clancy release back 1 week and not releasing ps in early june were intentional "delays"
the album was clearly finished since there were all those listening parties on may 18
can't say anything for certain on the ps release but idk why they would have said early june rather than just june

"what's your eta?" "pardon my delay" likeeee they've been trying to tell us something but idk what yet

[tame tendon]

They pushed it back a week because the music videos weren’t finished that doesn’t have anything to do with the listening parties

[violet terrace]

I feel like new music during tour is unlikely since adding different songs to the setlist is a lot of work for sound, lighting, visuals, etc. But who knows, Tyler might have a whole second show up his sleeve ready to go😂 I just feel like blurryface kinda started this whole story so I feel like it’s 10 year anniversary would be significant. But that’s just my theory and wishful thinking. I’ve been wrong about so many theories in the past lol

[tame tendon]

They released Heathens in the middle of the Emotional Roadshow tour, not a double album but still new music

[violet terrace]

Omg you’re right I forgot about that… now you’re getting my hopes up for something sooner lol

[teal compass]

I think at least the album delay was unexpected because Tyler did seem genuinely really bummed he couldn’t make his plans work and went through the effort of making a full apology video and everything which they normally don’t do, but the weirdness around Paladin with the early June thing and then the release that was very much not early June is weird too

Maybe the Paladin thing was more intentional but also it didn’t really lead to much so idk

[violet terrace]

I feel like them intentionally delaying PS makes sense since it was all covered in Dema censoring as if they discovered it first or something

[teal compass]

There does seem to be something big going on in the background that we don’t know about yet though so maybe pieces fall into place and make more sense later

[tough timber]

yeah i know that's what they said when they announced the delayed release but i don't necessarily take everything tyler says at face value either

initially i thought they seemed bummed by having to move it back but when the ps music video also seemed to come late i started questioning it a bit

i could be wrong though it's all just speculative

i gave been trying to connect the pieces of the eyes/vision references, delays, maps + directions, tyler's absence + the distorted images, maps, and now the letters

it does seem like there's a lot going on but it has yet to all lock into place

[lean mango]

I think the Paladin delay is easily explained by the fact that they just started it in April

After Heathens released did they immediately add it to the setlist?

Looks like they added it like 10 days later

But ye, during tour, not even between legs

[tame tendon]

Exactly so why couldn’t they do that with ultimate chapter? I’d expect they’d release that much music between the US leg and Australia

Mainly cause the FPE isn’t going anywhere else so once it’s over we’ll have what we need to find the ultimate chapter or whatever the boys planned for us

[teal compass]

worth noting heathens was released as the lead single of the suicide squad soundtrack so the release date was probably not up to tyler and josh and may be an exception, afaik the only other song released during tour is cancer which was also released as part of the rocksound black parade cover cd not soley created or owned by twenty one pilots

would be very cool to see the setlist update with new songs though

entirely a possibility it happens but we cant really use those two as evidence given the extenuating circumstances surrounding their releases

[dark ermine]

People keep saying this and almost three months already passed, in a year we still gonna have the Clancy era, it’s totally normal waiting until then

[tame tendon]

It just doesn’t make sense to give us the ultimate chapter clue and these FPE clues then make us wait a whole year

At the very least we’re gonna wait until the beginning of the Australia leg

[lean mango]

I'd argue that we still can because it shows that they're not 100% against it, for example, they could have decided not to play Heathens until the next leg or next tour entirely but they chose to add it

[teal compass]

I’d say it shows that they’re willing to update the set lists when they’re forced to release music during tour, there’s nothing suggesting they’d willingly release new music in the middle of a tour as every other occasion where they weren’t forced was outside of a tour

It can serve as evidence that if music was released they’d update the set list I just don’t think there’s evidence they’d actually choose to release music mid tour leg if given the option

They do always like trying new stuff though so it could happen

[lean mango]

I also think there's a tangible difference between during active tour and between legs

[teal compass]

I do think between legs is more likely but given that both cancer and heathens were mid leg that puts them even further away from being evidence for a between leg Clancy part 2 drop

I’m arguing against a middle of a leg release though I think there’s a pretty high possibility we get something between legs this era even if it’s just between the currently announced shows and the presumable second half of touring for the era that’s unannounced

Sorry I could have been a bit more clear with my wording than just saying in the middle of a tour

[dark ermine]

But why? Other times was different because we were waiting for a new era, now WE ARE in a new era, so they gave us all this clues when the album released just for saying that there’s still something more

[tame tendon]

But that’s the thing I don’t think we’re waiting for a whole new album we’re waiting for an extension of Clancy, and also we’re getting our clues in the FPE right now and the FPE is over in one and a half months so it would only make sense for them to tell us what’s what after we figure out these FPE letters

And one more thing, THE 25 DOES NOT MEAN NEXT YEAR it means 25 total songs

[deft geode]

It could mean next year. I think it's far more likely because of the tweet in which Tyler said the final battle would happen after the tour. Would releasing any new music during tour fit into that?

[tame tendon]

He never said after the tour he said after the record

At least that was in a video I saw

[teal compass]

he did tweet that the shows would be a flashback reminding us why we fight before we do, which does tell us the tour takes place before whatever the "final battle" is

I’d expect this applies to the currently announced 2024-2025 run though, we know this era has plans extending beyond 2026 which presumably don’t fall into Tyler’s description here

Unless they just wait a realllly long time and end this out on one mv like hds ended blurryface era

[tame tendon]

I still don’t think he’d make us wait a whole year, especially considering the FPE clues which end when the US leg is over so after the US leg might be a good time to announce something

[teal compass]

Idk they’ve made us wait long periods of time for most of the lore drops

As someone who’s been here since the start of the lore Clancy era is by far the most frequent with its lore drops in the letters, in trench era there was a good year and a half of no lore at all

Sai also had a massive gap between the release of Saturday and finally picking things back up

Finishing out the currently planned shows and then waiting for 2-3 months to do another lore drop is completely in line with all their past releases

Clancy era is the outlier in not making us wait weeks or months between drops

[tame tendon]

There’s a difference between now and SAI, they’re clearly setting something up with the FPE letters and they end when the US leg is over

And they weren’t really setting up that much in SAI

[teal compass]

they literally directly told us the outside video was coming soon and even started teasing us with clips and then made us wait 3 more months with no contact from the band they were very much setting stuff up and still making us wait

saturday into the outside was the biggest setup for a payoff in the entire sai era and was the largest gap between lore drops

[tame tendon]

Really? I wasn’t here for that

I know they released The Outside as a single 4 months before the video but I didn’t know they did sneak peeks

[teal compass]

most of the lore has been massive droughts of information or releases its been hard, glad theyre spoiling us this era 😭

the arg was also setting up the impending release of the sai era and that made us wait 10 months, it was like 4 months before they even mailed out the usb prize

[lean mango]

He still never actually said this, this is just how everyone has chosen to interpret what he said

I think it's still perfectly valid in either the case where we get more music, but not the "final battle" until after tour, or where he's referring to the US leg

Or any number of other things that don't give us the conclusion until later while there may be other stuff in the meantime

[teal compass]

I also don’t know if this is really making us wait while they’re actively releasing more letters than they ever have before, it’s not like we’re just sitting here waiting for an ending to occur- they’re actively telling us the story as we speak

You could argue that sai era was an extra 3 years of making us wait for the ending from that pov idk the ending isn’t the entire focus and they’re actively releasing content, we’ve been waiting for the ending since trench dropped

[lean mango]

I think there's a difference here

[teal compass]

Tyler also never gave any indication that the story would end on release of the album or something people just assumed that because of the music video drop

[lean mango]

No, he said that, at least Clancy's press did

[teal compass]

He said that the Clancy album was the finale not that it was all concluding on release day

[lean mango]

That's what that means though, and the press said the album brings an end to the story

[teal compass]

That’s not at all what that means?

Trench is the start of the story that doesn’t mean the entire start was on October 5th 2018

Every album story they’ve done has extended over the full album era

[lean mango]

I wouldn't call Trench the start of the story

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 23!

[lean mango]

If anything I'd call Blurryface the start

[teal compass]

Yes that’s my point about it not being the entire start

The storyline is not confined to the album releases

[lean mango]

But anyway, yea, you can read it that way but that's just one interpretation. IMO it's not really a good argument to say "he never said that" when that's what was communicated, for many people. If a large number of people interpreted it that way, maybe the wording should have been less ambiguous

[teal compass]

Does this not counter your own point like 5 minutes ago what

You just did the “he never said that”

[lean mango]

No, they're not mutually exclusive. In the first case I'm not saying no one should think of it that way, just throwing out a reminder that we could be wrong

But I also think there's a difference here

And other factors

I think with them calling Clancy the "finale," assuming the story will end with the final song on the album is very reasonable because that's what the word finale means. My assumption would have been, at most, that they'd end it by releasing the Paladin MV a year later or something, since that is the way the lore has been carried throughout eras before. But with their wording, I think it's just simply taking the literal meaning of what they said and not extrapolating at all to assume it would just end on album release day or with the final video release

Tyler's statement "reminding us of why we fight right before we do," in contrast, is far from a concrete statement. "Right before" could mean many different things. There's ambiguity of which present moment "right before" is based on. It could be the entire tour, it could be the first show, or it could be the in-universe moment Clancy experiences the flashback and not referring to a real time at all. Anyone reading that and making an assumption of something definite is extrapolating, unlike the statement about Clancy being the finale

In addition, in all of the interviews and press leading up to Clancy's release even when he said the final battle would happen after the album, he still made it sound like it would be very soon, so again, it's understandable that most people wouldn't think they'll be waiting over a year for it

[teal compass]

You’re ignoring the first part of the tweet where he flat out says “it’s not” to someone who says they hope the battle isn’t during the shows

[lean mango]

He didn't say that

[teal compass]

“It’s not.”

[tame tendon]

But after the US leg is over is not during the tour

They have a break

[lean mango]

The person said "during the concerts," referring to at the show itself, in context the issue everyone was talking about at the time was the ending being gatekept behind buying a ticket

[tame tendon]

And also he’s kind of lying here cause the FPE letters are right before every concert

[lean mango]

So he didn't say it won't happen while on tour, just that it's not at the show itself

[tame tendon]

And that’s a huge clue

[lean mango]

No, he's referring to the final battle not being there, he didn't say there won't be more lore

[tame tendon]

Well when the US leg and the FPE is over that could be an opening to release something

[lean mango]

The distinction here is time vs. location

[teal compass]

Obviously it was clear enough to a large enough group of people that’s what Tyler meant, if a large number of people interpreted it that way maybe the wording should have been less ambiguous

This feels like a bad faith argument where you’re unwilling to scrutinize your arguments in the same way you are others and I’m gonna choose to stop engaging

[lean mango]

Tyler responded to a tweet worried about having to buy tickets to see the ending, and people are taking it to mean the end can't happen until tour is over

[lean mango]

No it's not lol, I wrote two giant paragraphs explaining the difference.

[sly hazel]

They actively said they were thinking about bringing the FPE to the EU and elsewhere
And EU is the final part of the tour, very possible we don't actually get a final pay off until then

[tame tendon]

While that could happen I highly doubt they’d keep giving us more and more clues throughout the rest of the tour

[teal compass]

Literally the only argument on both sides is what our personal interpretation of Tyler’s statements is

[lean mango]

Saying Clancy is the finale is not an ambiguous statement, and even if you choose to interpret it as such, the Spotify description straight up said the album ends the story

[sly hazel]

Why not, nothing stopping them

Also the stuff like Spotify description etc doesn't really count
Can't exactly be like "We said it was going to be the finale but surprise we're planning something extra so it's not quite the end"
it'd ruin the whole surprise and build up

[lean mango]

I know, aeth, the context is qwerty is trying to claim they never said the album would be the end, so people shouldn't have assumed that

[tame tendon]

In a way Clancy is really the end cause the double album theory we’re all here for

[lean mango]

But bruh, at this point you're straight-up ignoring what "ambiguous" means

[teal compass]

I’m claiming that they never said the storyline would end on the day the album released which is a completely different argument than what you’re framing

[lean mango]

You're not even countering my argument

[timid spindle]

All i know is we're getting something, and I am pumped! Lol

[tame tendon]

That is true but all they said about when it will end is it will happen after Clancy releases, or at least after the first part yk

[teal compass]

Given the fact that no one can decide when the finale is coming it’s pretty clearly also ambiguous, again your argument and mine are the same

[lean mango]

No, the album released on album release day, so if it ends on the album, it ends on album release day

[tame tendon]

What?

[sly hazel]

They themselves only said it was going to be the end wayy before Clancy was actually announced tbf
I think they also thought it was going to be one final album and then the plan to split it into parts came at a much later date which is why they were then teasing "after" the album and "final battle coming up" in interviews

[lean mango]

Then you are changing the definition of ambiguous

Simple as that

[sly hazel]

This isn't really how that works
Especially where videos are concerned

PS might've ended it in the video, and we didn't get that video until much later after release day

[tame tendon]

There is no way possible that Paladin is the end think about it for a minute

[sly hazel]

Could've added something at the end of the video or had an extended length video that's like 10mins long and called it a day

[tame tendon]

Either way the end of the story is not out yet I’m sure of it

[sly hazel]

They could've done any number of things to end it within this album and not do anything else

[lean mango]

Ambiguous means the statement itself could be referring to two different things and doesn't make it clear which one is true. I pointed out the ambiguity in Tyler's tweet, which is what event "right after" refers to. There is no logical ambiguity in the statement that Clancy (the album) is the finale. It is a definite statement. Room for varied interpretations of what "finale" means are NOT the same as ambiguity. They are not the same.

[tame tendon]

I like this explanation this is good

[teal compass]

The ambiguity is in if it ends on album release or just ends with that album era before the next album, my message says that people were uncertain what was meant which is literally what ambiguous means

[lean mango]

No. That's not ambiguity. That's uncertainty, and they are not the same thing

[teal compass]

You’re saying I’m changing the definition of a word in a message where it’s used completely correctly cmon

[tame tendon]

I think what facecat is trying to say is people are making too many assumptions that aren’t based off of logical statements

Or something maybe I’m wrong

[lean mango]

I'm saying, in the field of logic, you can reduce statements to truth values

[teal compass]

Those words are quite literally synonyms and do mean the same thing, this is why I say the argument is bad faith man you’re arguing about word definitions that I didn’t even use incorrectly

[lean mango]

I'm not talking to you anymore, you clearly don't want to have a real discussion

Anyway, Jumpsuit, I had more to say

A statement like "the sky is blue" can be evaluated as true or false definitively. (In this case, true obviously)

[tame tendon]

Ok everyone think about this: The FPE is giving us all these clues and messages and they end when the US leg is over, so the most logical thing to do is reveal what the message from the letters mean after the US leg ends. I can’t be sure since we don’t have the full message yet

[lean mango]

If rather than sky, someone uses a word with a less clear meaning, the statement can still be evaluated to true or false, that doesn't change, it's inherent in the logic

[tame tendon]

I’m honestly not completely sure what you’re saying here but I’ll go with it

[teal compass]

Okay that works

[lean mango]

There are also certain words which are called logically definite (I think that's the term), meaning anything they refer to can be evaluated as true or false in that way

Hard to describe

But for example, "alive" is logically definite because someone can be alive or not alive

Someone can be called "half-alive" but in reality, they either are or aren't, that in-between doesn't exist

Any word like that is logically definite

Similarly, "beginning" is logically definite because something either is the beginning or it isn't

Even if we don't know it, calling something the "beginning" is logcially definite because we could theoretically figure out if it's the instance when something started, or not

[tame tendon]

So like you gotta say what it’s the beginning of, so people could understand, or something

[lean mango]

Yea, it needs context

You can say "2000 was the beginning of the 21st century" and as long as everyone agrees on the definition of 21st century, that's a logically true statement

Same is true of the word "finale," finale is a synonym for the end so something definitively is or isn't the finale (or end), as long as people agree on the definitions of all words involved. The statement itself is logically sound and clear

And unfortunately I'm realizing it'll be hard to explain the other part because it gets deep into grammar tense stuff and would require a lot more paragraphs so uh... I guess if someone really wants the full explanation of why Tyler's tweets are logically ambiguous, I can send in DMs or make a post or smth

But TBH I'd rather not spend my morning doing that, but just know that unlike saying the album is the end/the finale, Tyler's statement in the tweet cannot be evaluated to a definitive true or false even if all words are understood and agreed

TL;DR, because the word "before" is logically indefinite, and the sentence structure creates a grammatical uncertainty of where "we" are in the context of the sentence

[tame tendon]

No offense to your explanations but I don’t think qwerty is gonna take time to read these

[lean mango]

Ye, it was for anyone else who wanted to know what the difference between the two was

qwerty just wanted to be right lol

For what it's worth, there's another factor here IMO

People who were actually on Twitter when Tyler responded to that tweet have full context of what he meant, if they remember

[tame tendon]

One super unrelated thing I’ll say, Titanic would have been way better if James Cameron actually knew how to write

[lean mango]

The whole discussion was people worried they wouldn't get to see the finale the intended way without buying a ticket

[tame tendon]

Oh

[lean mango]

That's what Tyler was responding to, so in context, it makes sense to assume "it's not" means "it won't be at the concerts themselves," not "it won't be until after tour"

[tame tendon]

Makes sense

[lean mango]

But the context isn't in Tyler's tweet or the one he's quoting

So people kind of just had to be there to know that

So it makes sense that a lot of people might understand it to mean something else if they weren't

And then when a lot of people read it a certain way, it starts to become engrained as a popular theory

[lean mango]

I saw that movie ages ago

And tbh, I didn't love it but I barely remember anything about the writing quality

Have fun theorizing, y'all, I'm probably going to take a long break from the server again until something big happens. Double album believer 'til the end (or EP at the very least)

[deft geode]

It's good to be aware of the context but it absolutely wouldn't be out of ordinary for Tyler to tweet things containing information that isn't only a direct answer to a previous tweet

The context also doesn't take away from what is being said. How it should be interpreted is obviously another question though

[dark ermine]

That’s just a theory, no one ever confirmed this.

[tame tendon]

I know that but why the hell is it a theory it doesn’t make nearly as much sense as 25 total songs

[dark ermine]

Why? 25 = 2025. I don’t say it couldn’t be 25 songs, I just say that is a guess just like many others.

[tame tendon]

2025 just doesn’t make sense to me because leaving these clues now and making us wait a whole year just doesn’t feel right

The FPE ends when the US leg is over so if anything that’s when we’ll get ultimate chapter, and by the way October 25 is a Friday this year so never rule that out

[deft geode]

It was never explicitly stated that the FPE would only be around for this leg of tour. Iirc, Mark or someone said they were looking at the options to maybe make it happen during other tour legs as well. There are also other ways to continue displaying these new letters, not just the FPE

[tame tendon]

If that’s true then why aren’t they displaying these letters in more ways

Cause it seems like they’re meant for the FPE, they didn’t even post the entire first letter anywhere once it was completed

[deft geode]

Because now they have a way of displaying them at the FPE.

[rancid delta]

He's still around...

[wraith gulch]

This also happened during night TWO

[grave fiber]

The Dema restriction popped up during the judge fan singing video too at the same time blurryface tweeted

[wraith gulch]

I can’t believe facecat left the server for awhile this is double album theory discussion stuff

Concert spoilers || https://x.com/topupdaters/status/1829008431883137083?s=46&t=0DPGQ2A1GeMRdBfKbDx_pg ||

TØP Updates (@TOPUPDATERS) on X

#ClancyLA #ClancyLA2 #Clancytourspoilers
.
.
Tyler during the Judge: "This is night 2 here, night 1 set a pretty high bar. But tonight's goal is to destroy them."

Twitter · Aug 29, 2024, 4:09 AM

[wraith gulch]

Yeah! Which is interesting with the whole trial theory

[burnt scarab]

hmm

[patent coral]

https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1253366522882166935

Throwing this old theory of mine back into the chat after the BF tweet tonight and the fact that it was the JUDGE of all songs when this and the violation code happened

Trial/evidence are themes that have been present since the initial OC teases

[wraith gulch]

Agree

[dark ermine]

Great theory imo

Look, the fact that Blurryface account STILL exists is enough for me…they wouldn’t finish a storyline started almost 10 years ago with the main character still appearing here and there, there’s gonna be a wrap at some point

[cedar cradle]

WE'RE SO BACK

[sick swallow]

WE’RE SO FUCKING BACK

[cedar cradle]

OH DOUBLE ALBUM THEORY IT IS GOOD TO BE BACK!

[dark ermine]

It never left 😎

[brazen leaf]

this theory was always alive

now it’s breathing heavily

[dark ermine]

this

[cloud lynx]

we were just waiting for material

[boreal portal]

oh we back ?

[cloud lynx]

we never left

[cedar cradle]

We’ve been here the whole time

You’ve been asleep

Time to wake up

[cloud lynx]

i'm keeping my eyelids up

no matter what

[cedar yacht]

Yo what the fuck is happening

Hahahahahahah these twenty one pilots are stressing yhe passengers man

[lean mango]

LMAO, no joke, I've left to take a break twice and both times Blurryface tweeted that same night

[wraith gulch]

You’re back!! Haha

[brazen leaf]

the double album believers will be proven right

[tame tendon]

I hope so

I’ve always believed in 25 total songs

[reef sapphire]

"we must" and "mor" I think something happens the day after the tour ends and we have all the pages because of the "tomorrow" (tom, mor, row is Def part of the code imo)

[modern atlas]

likely all of the letters will be available by october/novembet so if this is true then it won’t be end of tour but instead end of US leg

[tame tendon]

EXACTLY THANK YOU

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 2 WEEKS

[reef sapphire]

100%. Im so very convinced of this, esp given the logo change

were seeing an era shift right before our eyes

[modern atlas]

that’s bad

clancy is the end of the dema story so if there’s a new era it won’t have clancy

[lean mango]

I'd call it less of changing to a new era, and more like an era with two different but connected styles

[tame tendon]

I agree, this potential final chapter could have a very similar style to the first 13 songs of Clancy but we’d be able to tell the difference in tone

[lean mango]

My guess is it would be a bit more experimental but similar sound, as hinted by Tyler's explanation for Lavish

[tame tendon]

Yeah maybe

[cedar cradle]

Lavish but it’s an entire album please that’d be fire

[real field]

I haven't been keeping up can I get a tldr how likely another album is? Or is this theory dead

[lean mango]

fairly likely

new music is almost certain IMO, but it could be something other than an album

a single or an EP

I think 11 tracks for an album is a reasonable theory still

[brazen leaf]

jut realised the fpe letter has smear marks 😔

why did i post that here

[real field]

SPOILER!!!

Ah!!!

Delete delete !

[real field]

Ty ty

[waxen meteor]

im still very much expecting additional music to be released this era (not that ill be disappointed if it isnt, but theres so much evidence and hints that there is more coming). but imo we dont really have much evidence that it will be a full album, or what it will be, specifically (besides clancy is seized for EP)

[reef sapphire]

I honestly think there's a mini era between. Were beyond Clancy learning to be a face of rebellion, we're now in the final battle.

[waxen meteor]

possibly the gap between this first leg of the tour, and the hypothetical second US leg that they usually do

[graceful hill]

The same happened in sai but not right in front of our eyes like this

This is wild

[tame tendon]

I wanna guess that we’ll get the middle piece of letters 11-12 tonight, I was very surprised we got those 2 pieces back to back

[tame tendon]

This theory is still alive?

[dark ermine]

It’s incredible how dropping all the Clancy MVs on day one let us without any hype for new music videos. It’s almost like…they wanted to drop all the videos to make space for new music in the next months (or next year)

[dark ermine]

more than ever tbh

[tame tendon]

Hadn’t checked this in months

[tame tendon]

Why wouldn’t it be alive? We get more and more evidence that Paladin clearly isn’t the end

Every single show more evidence I mean shit is crazy that’s the truth

[tame tendon]

I hadn’t checked it, there’s knew evidence?

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[tame tendon]

Have you been keeping up on the FPE stuff

That’s what I’m talking about

Clearly not the end, not yet

[tame tendon]

What’s that

Oh my god am I about to introduce you to the new letters

Letters?

That’s right, new letters, one with every concert

[boreal portal]

highly probable

[cedar yacht]

Double album theory getting more credit ??????

[tame tendon]

Of course

[cloud lynx]

Fan Premier Exhibit, a museum basically

An exposition that they bring on-tour

And each time they drop a piece of a letter, apparently evidence collected by the bishops???

[tame tendon]

That’s pretty cool

[reef sapphire]

So "we must ___ tomorrow I'll be __t____ dif______ me ______ do ____"

[wraith gulch]

Possibilities:

“We must act tomorrow. I’ll be at the”
Or
“We must act tomorrow. I’ll be at two different meetings”

Or the period could be in a different spot. “We must act. Tomorrow I’ll be at two different meetings”

[glass flare]

Many are following the possibility that ILL is „I’ll“. But it can also be „will“ or „still“!

[wraith gulch]

I was trying to look for a clearer post on how the letters are coming together with their spacing and stuff but I couldn’t find one on a cursory search.

[tough timber]

idk if this helps but i have this going

[wraith gulch]

That is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you!

[tough timber]

it's the second sheet in my tour spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oSINLM5QcYssueAAVtzKkVgp8b1ZCl6mEJF0FiB0q1w/edit?usp=drivesdk

[wraith gulch]

You rock. Thanks!

[tame tendon]

I just figured out what Tyler should do live. He should play Drown from NPI and when it gets to the verse from Fall Away it should turn into Fall Away

[neon goblet]

Although that would be sick as hell, I doubt he would play anything from NPI

[tame tendon]

If he was ever gonna play anything from NPI it would be for this tour. He did play Slowtown for the first time in 12 years twice so who knows

[neon goblet]

That is a fair point
Eh, time will tell

[olive plume]

tyler’s mentioned before he doesn’t want anybody hearing his first tracks. whether that includes the 6-track EP that was the original NPI, we can’t say for sure. he did have that EP available online but he also likes to joke RAB was like a glorified mixtape so who’s to say

[lean mango]

I think he's coming around to the idea, but I don't think he'd ever perform anything from before Self-Titled

maybe at a special one-off thing someday, but not on tour

and I can understand

Especially from the context of having become successful

If he never broke out then maybe he'd look back on them as fun lil' snippets of his progress over time

But nowadays he probably sees them not only just like practice stuff, but so far removed from anything he wants to make now/can make now that it just feels pointless to go back

[wraith gulch]

I think he’s grown so much as a musician that he probably looks back on some of that from a more professional standpoint and cringes. Whereas we as fans look back on it and love the raw authenticity and don’t care about it not being polished.

[lean mango]

at any rate, I feel a bit of that myself with my music and I imagine it's magnified tenfold for him since he's always already had some of that hesitation

[small turtle]

I was sent this meme about A Series of Unfortunate Events today--'Meg' should join the TOP fandom, a good use for her skills

[tame tendon]

I love that book series

[small turtle]

I enjoyed it pretty well as a kid and really love the Netflix series : ) So I accidentally got the person who sent me the meme into the book series by showing them the show

But the meme immediately made me think of TOP--looks like you found a good use for your ASOUE-honed skills

[tame tendon]

You sure whoever that is isn’t already a member of the clique? Cause in #theories someone whose username is Meg sent the last message

[reef sapphire]

We must destroy tomorrow..? I swear there was a top/npi lyric similar to this...

Also fascinating that destroy was also a word written on trash

[tame tendon]

Then it might be destroy

[dull void]

Have we found more evidence for the double album theory

[lean mango]

Not a lot of specifics, just almost certainty that there's more to come, and waiting for what it will be

[reef sapphire]

It's destroy

We must destroy more..?

[tame tendon]

It’s gotta be destroy we just got the RO

[modern atlas]

destroy it if i want

[tame tendon]

Eh, bit of a long shot

[copper sky]

I don’t think it’s long at all tbh

[dark ermine]

My post on Reddit from some months ago makes so much sense now with the new letters

https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/s/eo0JIcIXKF

[fallow violet]

part 1 came out last october. i think this is just another proof that clancy part 2 is very much possible for next year. sending this because ive always seen people sceptical about a double album being released a year apart because “its not how its done” but i always thought it works fine and bands have done it and still do it

[golden temple]

I definitely agree it’ll be “we must destroy” - what if it’s like “we must destroy him/them or I’ll be…” maybe “become”. This would add points to my personal theory of how this story is going

[olive plume]

i brought this up as evidence before but no one really seemed receptive of it 🥲 i think this helps our case

the bands are friends too (and there was that rumor about them touring together) so i think this could be something

[fallow violet]

even if no one else had done this before i dont see why they wouldnt do it if they wanted to tell this story with a cliffhanger. i thnk everything will make sense eventually

people also kept saying that we wont get any lore during the tour yet here we are with the letters and blurryface interrupting the show

i think its possible that after the message from the letters gets revealed we might get an announcement of part 2, or the message is just a part of the lead up to the announcement eventually

who knows what else they have up their sleeve honestly.

[wraith gulch]

Yeah, there’s really no industry definition of a double album that I could find. Some are released together, some months apart, some a year apart. Ultimately it just depends on how it is marketed by the band/label.

So I fully agree a part 2 after the tour or something could very well be considered a double album if TOP markets it as such.

[lean mango]

Yea, I'll add on that doubles/part 2s are becoming increasingly common these days

Taylor Swift, Blink 182, Imagine Dragons, and I'm sure others

[sly hazel]

with more and more evidence I still keep coming back to these part 2 album releases and the way that you essentially get a whole B side album
i think that is easily the best and most obvious way to handle things with this
we even have room for the album cover to basically flip and/or Josh and Tyler to swap places on the cover

especially with the way the narrative is shifting focus into the citizens/banditos with the new letters and away from Clancy directly now

unironically we could get a more torchbearer focused album which in turn represents an "outsiders" perspective to Clancy as well as how to be a supportive friend/family member etc

[waxen meteor]

Agreed. I think TOP will do whatever they want (within the restrictions of FBR), doesn't matter if it's been done before or not, doesn't matter if it'll maximize records sales/profits or not.

[dull void]

I’m so sorry I’m behind, how are we finding these letters? Are they in the new Clancy letters?

[weak thorn]

? they're coming from the tour

[dull void]

Like the new letters for the phrase?

[weak thorn]

oh

so

[dull void]

I’m sorry, I haven’t been keeping up

[weak thorn]

some letters are doubled, so we take those and undouble them

mfw I say undoubled instead of subtracted

[dull void]

Ok those are on the newest letter pieces tho right

As we get them

[weak thorn]

yeah

[dull void]

Okok

Thank you

I was trying to catch up by reading chat but there’s so much

[weak thorn]

check #lore-updates and https://archive.demacouncil.top/ for future reference

[dull void]

Oh thank you so much!!!

[tame tendon]

I’m hearing more and more people saying they’re behind, are these letters attracting more people to join the Discord clique or something

[deft geode]

That's very much possible but some people might just be busy with other things at the moment and not keep up with TØP news

[meager fjord]

(I know for me at least I’ve been trying to avoid tour spoilers and that means I’m behind on little bits of lore- that’s part of it for some people)

[tough timber]

i think some people dipped for awhile when nothing happened on 6/25

[tame tendon]

Yeah that probably happened

I was bored out of my mind when they just didn’t say anything for all of July

[lean mango]

yea, as cool as all this is, nothing so far has explained the mini-hiatus

[olive plume]

i think they were just preparing for tour but it would have been nice to get an interview or something

[lean mango]

I don't think it was only that tbh, the fact that Tyler didn't appear in anything at all for that entire time and they had no interviews is really weird imo

especially considering interviews are often pre-recorded

Still no big interviews this era either, the longer it goes with no new interviews of any kind and especially no big ones, the weirder it gets

seems like this era is all just opening a ton of threads and never resolving them, so far

[graceful hill]

The answers to loose threads are the friends we made along the way

[tame tendon]

I’m still guessing that the mini hiatus was because they had to finish producing the ultimate chapter double album

Before they went on the road

[tough timber]

see the lack of major interviews is still one of the main things that indicates there's more coming imo

it ain't over til we hear from zane lowe

[fallow violet]

yeah i think them not doing interviews is just part of how they decided to do the rollout. they probably dont wanna give away too much

[wraith gulch]

No Zane Lowe interview = double album theory still alive and well

[raven lagoon]

The most TØP move they could do is to do the Zane Lowe interview, but only with Josh

[wraith gulch]

Hahaha

[tough timber]

i would actually be so impressed if josh talked for that long

i love seeing the josh stuff
it's been cool and odd at the same time bc tyler is usually the one who likes to yap lol

[dark ermine]

Btw, I’m still sure that if Double Album/Deluxe theory is real, The Craving (Single Version) is gonna be there. It’s so weird that they made a more pop version of the song and they didn’t put that version on the album to boost the streaming, it’s definitely gonna be in the “deluxe” or something else

[reef sapphire]

Does c fit anything??

[tame tendon]

The letter T is in the 11 letters Tyler posted on twitter, and guess what, that’d make The Craving (SV) song number 21

[dark ermine]

Yeah, true

[lean mango]

I'm personally of the opinion that The Craving single version will never be on an album, and if there end up being 25 songs it won't be counted as one of them

first of all, it's weird to have two versions of the same song on one double album if the second half isn't like a remixes/alt versions side

(not unheard of, though)

and second, Tyler had a very specific reason for not including the single version, and including it later anyway would kind of make that less meaningful

[tame tendon]

We’ll just see

[lean mango]

Also TOP generally shies away from things that could be seen as "cheap," for lack of a better word

and that's kind of how it feels if there's a number of songs, and the exact total number is significant, and it's padded out with two versions of one song

[tame tendon]

Yeah that makes sense

[dark ermine]

In deluxe albums is very common to put alternative versions, remix etc.

[dark ermine]

I agree with this tho, it was just a thought

[lean mango]

yes, but not so much in double albums, and if there are 25 tracks and it matches the keymash tweet, it's most likely a double rather than a deluxe

[tame tendon]

Yeah it wouldn’t make sense to build up this hype then not release something new

[tough timber]

on the craving
as far as i can tell that's the only song that's really gotten much radio play so far (not certain about this bc i don't listen to the radio that much)
but it kinda seems that Jenna's version is the more personal version and i get why they didn't try to make it into a "radio version"

[tame tendon]

First of all Overcompensate peaked higher on the charts so I’m confused on why The Craving got more radio play. Second, Jenna’s version didn’t get played cause it wasn’t a single, that’s what you gotta understand, no one plays songs that aren’t singles

[tough timber]

yeah i understand that
I'm saying that Jenna's version is the album version because it was more personal

while the single version seems to have been built more specifically for radio

like they made something for the mainstream and they made something for us

[tame tendon]

I very much prefer the single version. Both have the amazing lyrics but the single version is generally more fun to listen to. I don’t really listen to Jenna’s version unless I’m in the mood for getting my heartstrings pulled on

[waxen meteor]

I don't like the single version, if it was on the album it'd be my least favorite song

Album version meanwhile is the only Jenna song I really like

[lean mango]

damn

literally exact opposite for me

I strongly prefer the single version, if it was on the album it'd be easily top 5 and maybe top 3 for me, the Jenna version is the only Jenna song I don't really like

[tame tendon]

HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE SINGLE VERSION

[tame tendon]

My top 6 Clancy songs:
Overcompensate
The Craving (SV)
Next Semester
Paladin Strait
Vignette
At the Risk of Feeling Dumb

[tame tendon]

I gotta say though it gets me mad that Trapdoor and Isle of Flightless Birds aren’t on the setlist even when they were played at the small shows. And I’d like to know Tyler’s reasoning behind not including At the Risk on the setlist

[sleek pendant]

#clancy-spoilers

[indigo nacelle]

I would love Jenna’s version if they didn’t add the whispering in the beginning, it’s like nails on a chalkboard for me 😖

[tame tendon]

Yeah the whispering should’ve been easier to understand

[royal sphinx]

Same!! I couldn’t understand what she was saying without looking it up in google lol

Other than that Jenna’s version is my fav

[tame tendon]

I love how the MV for Jenna’s version had old videos of her and Tyler but I wish that some parts of it had the both of them right then and there reminiscing together or something

[silent cairn]

I feel Jenna's version should have been on a separate album consisting of the acoustic/development versions of Clancy's tracks.

[waxen meteor]

When they released that prior to the album release. I was like... please the other singles have been so good PLEASE do not let the album be like this

Thankfully it wasn't

[tame tendon]

HOW DARE YOU?! THAT SONG GAVE ME SUCH HIGH HOPES FOR CLANCY BUT MIDWEST INDIGO WAS THE SONG THAT BROUGHT THOSE HOPES DOWN

[waxen meteor]

That's crazy bc to me Midwest Indigo is the most similar song to that vibe 😂 but I'm not a musician or anything

[tame tendon]

Why is everyone hating on the single version of The Craving though? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH IT

[lean mango]

I think most people prefer the single version

I've seen polls and it's usually like 70% single version, 30% jenna's

but it's pretty different from a typical TOP song, that might be part of why some people don't care for it

Jenna's version is closer because they've done those voice and solo instrument songs before

and uke

[tame tendon]

I haven’t seen any polls like that but I would definitely be in the single version demographic

[reef sapphire]

letter theory, "we must destroy the morning, ill be..."

that or "we must destroy the morgue" but that seems... ehhh

...how do we know these codes arent from the bishops, fed to us "as banditos"?

[modern atlas]

March 21 single?

[tame tendon]

While that is a Friday the 3:21 thing is more to go with Stressed Out. It’s the first to mention Blurryface and is 3:22 long and that’s when Nico shows up on the tour video

[fallow violet]

i think we can totally keep this in mind just in case, they aren’t above teasing something like that in this way, like they did in ned’s cosy fireplace

[modern atlas]

3:21 ≠ 3:22

[tame tendon]

Yeah I know but 3:22 is when Nico showed up

[sly hazel]

Oh we are SO fucking back guys
There's no way they're doing all this lore teasing for there not to be a part 2

[tame tendon]

You’re goddamn right, I like your attitude dude

[fallow violet]

yeah actually no way fr i mean i never really doubted it. i think the matter of when they actually announce it just depends on how they wanna tell the end of the story, maybe after the letters message gets revealed ? or maybe that message will just unlock another part of the preparation for the final battle

[modern atlas]

but 3:21 was when the tweet was posted

[lean mango]

321 could be a date, but the first thing it makes me think of is a countdown

[tame tendon]

That’s a good point

[dark ermine]

I think we should first wait for all the letters to drop and discover what message they are hiding, so November?

[tame tendon]

More like October maybe cause that’s when the US leg ends and in turn the FPE ends

[waxen meteor]

321 hours = 13 days = approx 9/22... and ppl have speculated about the gap btwn boston on 9/21 and Montreal 9/25 bc Montreal is 25th show on the 25th

[tame tendon]

The 22 isn’t a Friday though

[waxen meteor]

Doesn't have to be a music drop

[tame tendon]

The four day gap is kind of suspicious, and btw the Montreal show is the only show where the FPE still isn’t sold out

[waxen meteor]

I saw that. I'm so sad bc I would literally go but it's the one week this fall I'm unable to take vacation

But I do wonder if it means they sold more than 150 tickets

[dark ermine]

Thinking back to the rollout of the Imagine Dragons double album years ago (Mercury Act 1 and Act 2) the timing could be very similar to those of Ultimus Capitulus.

Mercury Act 1 was released in September 2021, while Mercury Act 2 was released in July 2022, so about 10 months later, and the first single from Mercury Act 2 came out in March 2022, about 6 months after the release of Mercury Act 1.

So the timing of Ultimus Capitulus would be very similar: first single coming in November 2024 and record coming out between late spring and early summer 2025.

Obviously there are many cases of double album with different rules, but this is the most exemple my mind came up with lol

[tame tendon]

That could lead back to the theory about November 14 so we should keep an eye out. Early summer 2025 is probably too late for the whole thing

[dark ermine]

Yes true, the most distant period we can expect I think is after the end of the tour or the tenth anniversary of Blurryface. But I still don't want to rule out the possibility that "6/25" can refer to June 2025, so who knows.

[tame tendon]

Oh my god they never gave us a 6 except for that one thing nothing will happen on June 25

[tame tendon]

The Paladin Strait MV released on June 21 because of the Overcompensate bridge. “Days feel like a perfect length I don’t need them any longer”. And OC itself, “do the years seem way too short for my soul” February 29

[lean mango]

There were 6 clues with the 25 repeatedly at the time

they haven't given us anything with 6 recently but they also haven't given us anything with 25 since June 25th passed either

[tame tendon]

They did release the tour video 4 minutes 25 seconds

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 16!

[tame tendon]

Nice

[lean mango]

But yea, I really don't think 6 25 means June 2025, that'd be a dumb clue for many reasons if that was the intent

[tame tendon]

October 25 this year is a Friday and it’s after the FPE ends so that’s something to watch out for

[lean mango]

Bear in mind, though, that the main reason bands try to release albums on Fridays is for charting purposes, which are much less of a big deal with a double album or extended part of an album, especially if it's only digital at first like Taylor Swift's album

It could happen basically any day I think

[tame tendon]

For charting purposes? Blurryface was released on a Sunday and it peaked at number 1

[lean mango]

Yea, Friday gives the best chance to chart high immediately but other days can be effective too

like 10 years ago the traditional day in the US was Tuesday

[tame tendon]

And besides they always release their albums on a Friday these days since Trench

[lean mango]

Yes, but my point is since a double album isn't a typical album, generally the first part is what they/the label care most about being a commercial success, the second part can be much more experimental

and that goes for sound, singles or lack thereof, promotion, release days, etc.

Not that they won't release it on a Friday

[tame tendon]

To give an example Imagine Dragons released their double album on a Friday

[lean mango]

but for example, if we get heavy clues for a certain day and it's not a Friday, I don't think that's enough to rule it out

I know, some bands do but it doesn't have to be that way

[dark ermine]

Not as 25, but there were some clues also about 6.

[tame tendon]

Yeah the one thing with the miles that was the only thing

[dark ermine]

Also Josh posted two stories 6 minutes apart on PS MV release day with a total of 25 letters. As I said, not strong as the number 25, but still something to watch out imo.

[modern atlas]

😮

[waxen meteor]

The 321 thing to me seems too heavy handed to just be referring to the length of stressed out. I'd say it prob goes the other way-- they chose 321 bc of the length of stressed out. But as far as what exactly it is, could be many things -- hours (countdown), days (countdown), date.. prob more

[modern atlas]

this is low key cope

[modern atlas]

i’m a dumbass for not realizing that 3:21 is a countdown

[waxen meteor]

Didn't we get PS around the solstice? And march 21st is also a solstice

Yep-- June 21, march 21

Also realizing that makes them 9 months apart

**equinox but yall know what I mean

[tough timber]

you know
i initially thought 321 probably just indicates a countdown to something
but the implications of the equinox are interesting
since a lot of cultures mark the start of spring as the start of a new year
similar to how we have found many maps used to be "east up" because everything was oriented towards the sun

"I've been thinking too much, help me" or whatever

[waxen meteor]

I'm delusional but I noticed PS was released on summer solstice then in the video-- the sun is setting just as the video is ending. Since the solstice is the longest day of the year and it gets progressively darker after that, it could be symbolic of an upcoming dark period for clancy and the banditos

[tough timber]

you're feeding my delusion now lol

[lean mango]

It's a cool observation but I'd take it with a grain of salt in terms of evidence for the equinox, since it was originally meant to be released early in the month

[waxen meteor]

Supposedly-- I'm still not sure what was going on there (but agreed that the occams razor solution is that Tyler underestimated how long editing the video would take)

[lean mango]

Yea, knowing that the studio only started on it in April I think it's pretty likely to be a delay

[meager fjord]

we were also supposed to find it earlier and we just... didn't 💀

[tough timber]

not really a tour spoiler (photo of josh) double album theory lives!!!!

[waxen meteor]

"Born to drum for Twice, forced to drum for TOP" - unknown Twitter user

[boreal portal]

we so back

[wintry bane]

What is this supposed to meeeeaaaan?

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 1!

[ripe sorrel]

WHATTTT

[tame tendon]

What are you talking about we were never gone

[wintry bane]

Lol

[rancid delta]

This one is likely either for arcane on netflix or the transformers movie apparently

[rancid delta]

Heathens 2 though let's goooo

[ripe sorrel]

yee it’s arcane i think

[wintry bane]

The royal & the serpent post is basically the same

Soooo yeah

[rancid delta]

Still new music so that's cool 😎

[ripe sorrel]

i love new music

[cloud lynx]

GUYS

omg

[patent coral]

If this is for Arcane I bet it will play into the lore and eventually be part of Clancy part 2 (whatever form that takes)

But to use images from a photoshoot we’ve only seen in DR and with the backdrop of all the lore drops we’ve been getting it seems very unlikely this won’t be apart of the storyline and eventually the finale

[dark ermine]

I don’t think this will be part of the second album/Deluxe BUT the new photoshoot and outfits are veeeery intersting for a teaser 👀

[wintry bane]

Yes true!!

[waxen meteor]

Going to pull in something Tyler said about making heathens

He said they were hesistant about making music for a movie. He wanted it to be "a twenty one pilots song first. I want it to resonate with our fans and make sense at our show. Even thought the movie inspired the beginning of it, as the sing came together, I realized this was our song"

I would strongly suspect that any future collab would be along the same lines.

Combined with using the tour visuals for the hint--

I feel we have every reason to believe this will tie into the Clancy era in some way

[lean mango]

Yea, I think the strongest argument against it is that they didn't include Heathens on Trench

[tame tendon]

I heard something like that too

[lean mango]

But there are reasons for that, it's fairly common for artists to put soundtrack songs on albums

I think TOP would too if they felt it would fit the album

[tame tendon]

If Heathens were to be on Trench it’d definitely be in the place of Levitate like if you listen to the last verse it only makes so much sense

[lean mango]

Yea, it's possible

Guh, I'm so frustrated at all the meta stuff people use to shut down perfectly valid and viable theories

[gritty bear]

Hi Wonka 🧌

[lean mango]

I feel like the vast majority of arguments I hear against the double album theory, or stuff happening before the end of the full tour, etc. just boils down to "they've never done it this way before" even though we were literally directly told that this era would be unusual

[patent coral]

Hi lukeholliday 🤠

[lean mango]

so I think I'm starting to gain some clarity for how I think this is likely to go

the pieces are falling into place for me

We got Ultimus Capitulus 25, but we also got multiple 11 hints similar to hints we got for tracks on Clancy

there are only 13 songs on Clancy, and 13+11 is only 24

and I'm not really buying them including The Craving single as the 14th

however

Paladin teased a new song and was called "track 13," implying that there's something more

my theory is that the new song TOP made for Arcane S2 is the 14th song on Clancy

After it releases, we'll likely get the music video continuing where Paladin left off

And we'll get a version of Clancy with all 14 songs

It being Arcane is a good explanation for why they'd have a 14th song and not just include it when the album releases

Then this makes everything else fall into place

I believe this song will end in Clancy getting captured, setting up for Drag Path as well as a lot of the stuff the letters are hinting towards, I believe the red-taped Banditos are gearing up to fight back and rescue Clancy

Trial themes could come into play here

and most likely, this 14th song would be the bridge, 11 more will come next year after tour, making 25 total

And the kicker for me: Imagine Dragons did the exact same thing

Released an album with 13 songs, made a song for Arcane, added it to their recent album in an "additional tracks version," and then next year released the double album

So TL;DR

Either soon™️ or after the US leg, Arcane song releases along with its music video, completing Clancy's 14 songs and bridging the gap to Clancy pt. 2

Clancy Pt. 2 releases next year around the end of tour

I'm still really hoping for a Clancy Pt. 2 after the US leg but with a new single then basically confirmed, it seems unlikely to me

[dark ermine]

it’s incredibile they are gonna drop another single with another music video, 15 videos in a year is crazy

[lean mango]

yea, for real

[tame tendon]

If the quote in the tweet was from episode 2 that almost confirms essentially a Clancy episode 2

[lean mango]

Could be coincidence but that'd be cool if so

[cloud lynx]

the text from the image from their tweet could so much be associated to the lore

what the hell

[rancid gust]

I still think if part 2 was gonna happen it’d be in June next year

[indigo nacelle]

In the livestream Tyler made sure to tell us how lore videos are so super expensive, so every video can’t be a lore video, blah blah. But……… Mark shot Overcompensate and Navigating. Paladin Strait was almost all CG, and not shot on location. Where did that music video budget go?? I might be jumping on the double album train. There have to be more music videos!

[patent coral]

Paladin Strait was undoubtedly an expensive mv but I do agree that overall the mvs have been restrained so far

Could point to more

[indigo nacelle]

Yeah I’m thinking of how trench had 3 on location lore videos plus some for other songs… just makes me wonder.

[royal sphinx]

Oh this is such a good point - I def agree

[indigo nacelle]

Next semester and PS are the only 2 not shot by Mark I think?

[waxen meteor]

That's absolutely wild

I'm totally on board with arcane song being song 14 and being a capture/seizing/call to action-- the hint "I can't fight this time now"

Not to diss the videos we do have but I did feel like the lore videos (specifically OC and Navigating) seemed less fleshed out than lore videos in previous eras. But I wasn't sure if that was bc PS CGI ended up needing a huge budget or bc of the time sunk into creating the non lore videos

[sleek pendant]

i thought it was because it was at exactly 21 minutes in that episode😭

[indigo nacelle]

Afaik cgi tends to be less expensive than getting a crew and equipment on location and shooting irl….

[tame tendon]

Well the 21 minutes thing confirms that they’re doing a song for it and the episode 2 thing almost confirms an upcoming Clancy episode 2

[jagged fiber]

New Song named “The Line” coming to Arcane as some media says

[lean mango]

I don't think it's confirmation at all, it could be coincidence. They might have been intentional about the 21 minutes thing, but if so, it limits what quotes they can even use, and they'd want to choose one they like I think

[rancid delta]

The Line comes out in November. Six months after Clancy. That dash in the middle of the logo... is "The Line" the midway point between releases??

[wintry bane]

Can someone summarize pls without any tour spoilers? Cants watch the videos until my shows 🥲🥲

[lean mango]

Waitttt

That actually makes so much sense as to why they'd have a version missing the line

The dash

I personally think if there's a double album, The Line is the midpoint

[rancid delta]

six months after clancy, another 6 months will be May again

soooo

interesting

[dark ermine]

also it will came out EXACTLY a year after Ned’s Cozy Fireplace

[indigo nacelle]

No way. But the artists don’t have a say on release date, do they? That’s probably just a cool coincidence.

[lean mango]

They probably don't, but there's a slight chance the date was solidified that far ahead of time

For Arcane especially

[indigo nacelle]

Yeah especially seeing how long ago the song was written

[tough timber]

I'm so torn between feeling delusional and feeling like we're onto something...

are they referencing back to shy away with "break the cycle in half" by breaking the clancy release cycle in half??? if everything has been broken up by 6 months

[lean mango]

It's possible they did think of that and lean into it

I have a hunch that Tyler was probably already working on the end stuff when The Line was made and it's very likely that he incorporated it into his plans

Wait, I have a crazy theory now

Do we know anything about the production timeline for Arcane S2?

[indigo nacelle]

Idk, but didn’t someone say season 2 was confirmed back in 2021?

[indigo nacelle]

Story of my life for the last 5 months 😂😂😝🤪

[lean mango]

ok, my insane theory is that Tyler got asked to make The Line and felt like it fit well with the plot of the final album in the Dema saga, so he planned the album with that in mind

however, all they originally said, on looking it up, was that season 2 would come out sometime after 2022

What if, when TOP made The Line, this season was meant to be out in 2023, which would be closer to the first season's production timeline?

Then they made their album intending to release it a few months beforehand and have this tie in later on tour

But then when it turned out it was coming out in 2024 instead, what if they already had their album done and just had to wait on it for a year for his plans, and that's what made him decide to make Clancy in the form we know it?

or heck, the album could've been planned to release after The Line, with The Line being a single or teaser for the new era or something, in which case it would've been even longer if it was already done

Either way, the lack of control of when The Line releases combined with it potentially going with the lore could be a definite reason to have time and be motivated to make a double album

[dark ermine]

Anyway with the release of The Line scheduled for November 23 I THINK we won't have anything before that date, I don't think they want to accumulate the second part of Clancy and The Line so close to each other... I remain the theory of June 2025

[lean mango]

Yea, I agree, if The Line didn't exist I'd still think mid 2025 is too far

but with this, and it potentially resolving the Paladin cliffhanger, I think mid 2025 is likely

even if it doesn't, it's more music for 6 more months

[waxen meteor]

I like this but I'll give some additional context I know from skimming through the leaked episodes

|| I'm strongly speculating that the TOP song will be the intro song. If that assumption is correct then in the leaked first 5 episodes (an in-production copy from July) thr intro song wasn't included and a placeholder was used instead-- unlike any if the other teased music which was included in the leaked episodes. Implying that it wasn't ready yet. Orrrr it could be that it's just SO top secret that it's ready but classified so much that they aren't showing it to anyone but the ppl animating the intro||

[dark ermine]

For me it's just very clear: end of tour, second part of the album, second tour of the era

[lean mango]

From the tracklist, it looks like Enemy will still fulfill that role

[indigo nacelle]

That would be so rad, but isn’t the imagine dragons intro still on the soundtrack?

[waxen meteor]

It is but ||they didn't reanimate the intro in the leaked episodes at all either and there's no way that's final-- I'm thinking they'll use enemy but not for the unto to every episode. Possibly the first one?||

But if it's not the intro then ||it's probably in ep 6 7 or 8 which wasn't leaked||

[indigo nacelle]

Hmm that’s interesting…

[rain birch]

DOUBLE ALBUM TRUTHER RISE UP

[lean mango]

Been thinking about the possibility of the story just ending here in the next song but I honestly think there has to be more

we have so much evidence that Clancy needs to be rescued, and I think having him lose or be losing and then be rescued in a single song would feel anticlimactic

We wouldn't be able to feel the impact of the loss

[wintry bane]

Where did the version without the dash come from?

[lean mango]

If it happens in The Line and there's more to come, that's actually a great way to do it, because it means we wait SIX MONTHS with that loss waiting to see how it'll all end

that'll really emphasize it and make the impact of the final victory that much stronger

[waxen meteor]

Further speculation -- Enemy was leaked like 2 years prior to release bc of it being the intro song and a ton of ppl (including riot contractors etc) having access. So they wouldn't want to repeat the same mistake again

[lean mango]

mm, that's true

so I wanna know people's thoughts, if all that's happening music-wise is The Line in November and the finale stuff next year, what's all of the codes and hints and stuff leading up to?

Even the missing violation code can't be leading to something with The Line probably since they have to adhere to strict promo stuff for that

But they're clearly hinting towards a lot right now

it's a bit much for something a year down the road

[dark ermine]

In my opinion we have to wait to see what will be the final phrase hidden in the FPE letters (in my opinion we will have the lyrics of a song from the second part of Clancy or something to use in some way in the digital remains/to search for on the Dema website). Once we find out what phrase it will be, we can make new theories.

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[indigo nacelle]

I agree and a lot a lot a lot of emphasis is being put on Josh/TB… there has to be more revealed about that character as well

[stuck frigate]

Lets not forget about the cyan hex code hidden in digital remains

[tough timber]

i still think they wouldn't have talked about guiding in the livestream if that wasn't going to be expanded upon

[tame tendon]

I JUST HAD AN INSANE IDEA

what if when the FPE message is solved they release the double album but the story still isn’t over. Maybe The Line could be the real ending to the lore

[cloud lynx]

The Line could be that song they teased right at the end of Paladin Strait

If they incorporated it into the lore

[tame tendon]

Second thought that’s a better idea

Way better idea

[cloud lynx]

I genuinely don't think they'd release the end of the storyline like that

[tame tendon]

Yeah that probably wasn’t a good idea

But I still think they’ll release the double album soon after the FPE message is decoded

[cloud lynx]

Yeah probably

I think some stuff they teased earlier might actually be linked to The Line

Idk how to explain but stuff is starting to make sense

pieces by pieces

[cloud lynx]

e.g: the blurry doubled heads in the photo for The Line => Literally teased in the Digital Remains
The several times they've removed the literal dash in the logo

It sounds like The Line will be the transitional song into the rest they've also teased

[tame tendon]

I feel like The Line will be a kind of song where it feels like “everything’s on the line” maybe

[tame tendon]

Yeah it all makes sense now

I wonder if The Line will be a lore song or not

[cloud lynx]

The MV most probably not, at least not officially
Since it's for Arcane

Although maybe they'll hide stuff? Subtle stuff
And the topics and the themes

[tame tendon]

I can’t wait to find out

[rancid gust]

Any idea when that’s coming out?

[cloud lynx]

Supposedly November 23 i believe

[rancid gust]

Gotcha

[cloud lynx]

At least that's when the Arcane soundtrack album comes out

I suppose the single might come out earlier? I don't know

[rancid gust]

Headed to the concert on Oct 2nd :D so excited

[tame tendon]

Heathens came out like 2 months before Suicide Squad but I think that’s because it got leaked

[lean mango]

that's what I think

[lean mango]

I could still see them making it lore-related, doesn't necessarily need a directly Arcane-themed video since it's in the series already

[rancid gust]

They could also be clever and have it relate to both somehow

[lean mango]

I agree, it's definitely possible

Also someone said something that might be cope but I love it

Clancy is one side of the logo, The Line is the line in the middle, and the other side of the logo is the 2nd half

[tame tendon]

That makes a lot of sense to me

[tough timber]

huh i like that idea

[tame tendon]

The Line is the literal line between Clancy part 1 and Clancy part 2

Maybe

Wait but how do we know the exact date is the 23rd

[tough timber]

but i still like the idea of it being clancy and torchbearer with the line being their connection too

[sleek pendant]

for the soundtrack release?

spotify says so

[tame tendon]

It does?

But maybe the song will be released as a single first

[tame tendon]

Still The Line will probably release as a single first

[lean mango]

I wouldn't say probably, but I do think there's a decent chance

we just can't know yet

[modern atlas]

What if The Line is the end of the Dema storyline?

They only need one song to wrap it up honestly

But I can see the 14 11 theory with another 11 track album coming out later, it would be pretty weird though

[lean mango]

I don't think one song is enough

and I also don't think the 14 11 theory is that weird

Imagine Dragons did exactly that

released their album, added one song to it, then released a second part the next year

[dark ermine]

sorry that’s just a terrible idea lol

[modern atlas]

yeah the timing on that would be really weird

[modern atlas]

it’s weird to me bc they said that this was the last era but there’s 3 mini eras inside of that

[tame tendon]

I honestly hope they don’t come up with new lore after this is over cause if they do that it’ll just make us miss the old lore going on now

[waxen meteor]

I might be seeing bc it's 4am but was in DR and revisited this photo. Always wondered about the symbolism of Tyler being the "line" in the middle of the logo

For some reason I just realized that the logo is flipped...

When flipped to the correct position, the first vertical line has 1 black dash, then there's clancy making up (or civering up) the middle dash, then the second part of the logo has two black lines

Those black dashes inside the white lines are so specific and weird. They gotta mean something ?? And I can't come up with anything but double album with the line in the middle

Wait-- just realized you can see the kine super faintly and it's severing his head?!

[compact arrow]

Oh we are getting crazy tonight

[waxen meteor]

@compact arrow Pls can you try to get a good tshirt photo for the tshirt theorists

And enjoy that's going to be amazing!!

If you're going for main stage barricade-- setlist spoiler ||lavish is usually the best time for tshirt shot bc no guitar blocking it||

[tough timber]

lol yes please help out the shirties we're not having much luck lately

[compact arrow]

I can try

Yeah I’m getting word this is going to be a lore show

The word is Twitter btw

@waxen meteor @tough timber

[tough timber]

lol I've been waiting to see if the multiples of 9 theory holds true

[compact arrow]

What’s the theory

Please enlighten me @tough timber

[tough timber]

the first dmaorg interruption during the judge was during show 9 and the blurryface tweet was then too

also the mirrored clancy shirt had black letters instead of red

tonight is show 18

it's not a super substantial theory yet lol

[compact arrow]

That’s cool

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 15!

[tough timber]

yeah it'll be interesting to see if we get more bf activity tonight
there are 72 shows announced right now so they'd be ending the current tour on a multiple of 9 too which is where the initial suspicion came from i think

or at least for me that was the case

after the last blurryface tweet on LA N2 that's when i realized there's 72 total shows for this tour

[compact arrow]

Ok dope

Yeah I’ll do my best guys. I get sucked into the moment a lot. Plus I’ve been listening to these guys since may of 2013 and my lil sister has been bumping this stuff with me since she was 3 so tonight is super special.

[lean mango]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there are 37 shows on this tour which is 9*4 + 1

[compact arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/sleeping-sleep-dog-dawg-eeper-gif-5083970977419902566

Me after this morning

[waxen meteor]

no pressure! only if it would not harm your experience in any way ❤️ if you weren't planning of filming then obvi dont do feel pressured to do it just bc i asked you to!

i hope you have a great time with your sister, i got into top through a sibling as well, he's no longer around but their music has helped me through that ❤️ i love how music can bring ppl together

[tough timber]

yeah what jade said!

[dark ermine]

VERY hyped about tonight’s show.
If the theory that every 9 show Blurryface shows up, we’re in for a ride (NPI)

[compact arrow]

I’m sorry to hear that they are not around anymore but I am thankful that their music has helped you.

[compact arrow]

I’m 1 row behind barricade

[teal compass]

Hope you enjoy the show! I was 2nd row at mine too and it was an insane experience

At that distance be ready for the possibility of getting to reach out for a high five

[compact arrow]

That’s probably my last pit show

I got to hold Josh up for paladin strait

[real field]

Oh yo you were there?

I was pretty close to the front too

That's probably my first and last pit experience. It's not for me

[compact arrow]

Yeah it was a great time

But the morning and getting a good spot was stressful

But I got a stick

So worth it imo

[real field]

No wayyyy

If you ever consider selling it hmu I'll drop a bag 🤣

[real field]

It really was

[modern atlas]

how does a stick get that beaten from one day of usage 😭

[odd cargo]

rim and cymbal

[teal compass]

Josh is also just a lunatic who goes insanely hard on the drums, dude goes through like 4 pairs of sticks a night

He’s got little baskets with extra pairs of sticks on his drumset to just grab and keep going when they break

[brave spade]

or when he drops them

i’ve seen him drop or let some go at my show

i have a similar holder for that reason

[modern atlas]

guys the line is 11.23 right

(1)1.23 is counting up

3.21 is counting down

so maybe we could be winding up with The Line and winding down with whatever’s coming march 21

idk

[lean mango]

I don't think anything is coming on March 21st, we don't really have any substantial evidence that it's meant to be a date considering those numbers only appeared in that particular place so far

and The Line may come before the 23rd, but they have no control over that release date

it's just when Arcane's production team decided to release the OST

[tough timber]

3:21 if important could just be implying some type of countdown without meaning march 21 imo

I'm not 100% sold on 3:21 being important personally

I could go either way about it 🤷‍♀️

[rancid delta]

i could see it

would be hard to drop it in may/june because of blurryface 10

[tame tendon]

I hope they celebrate the tenth anniversary of Blurryface in London cause 3 days isn’t that much time to get back to Columbus and get ready for a stream or whatever they’ll do

[rancid delta]

maybe it could be pre recorded?

[tough timber]

double album truthers i have something new maybe

basing this on the assumption that the FPEs are giving us 14 total letters (ending with fragment 028)

some of the letters have had yellow tape on them while others have red tape. hadn't been paying much attention to this but... when looking at the letters in numerical order all the yellow tape has been the first half of the letters and red on the second half

letters 2 (fragment 004), 3 (fragment 005), 5 (fragment 010), and 7 (fragment 014) have yellow tape
while letters 8 (fragment 016), 9 (fragment 017), and 11 (fragment 022) have red

can't believe I'm just now noticing this but since generally yellow tape is for the banditos outside in trench and red is for the rebel citizens in dema maybe it means what we saw in paladin strait was just half the plan?

and the other half is what the rebels are up to on the inside?

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-charlie-day-crazy-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-qanon-gif-23738584

[wraith gulch]

I love this!

[tough timber]

lol i just realized this within the past hour and i feel insane but also like maybe it really means something

now trying to make this work with seized!clancy and torchbearer-centric album theories is a little beyond me atm but those are my favorite theories atm

[sudden hawk]

THIS IS ALL I NEED

I believe so much rn XD

[olive plume]

would love to see clancy and torchie fight each other while nico is seizing clancy (and they both end up okay and nobody dies!!!!! just bruised!!!!!!) but that’s just my angst-loving brain

[sudden hawk]

bruised, face of contusions

[tough timber]

felt

all that stuff i said about the tape is something i think could be real but what I'm about to say is total speculation based on nothing but what i want and trying to make it all fit together lol

nico seizes clancy following ps

a projection of torchie leads the rebels in whatever they're gonna do/we get some tb backstory along the way bc this is all his plan anyways (or at least that's the vibe the clancy letters give)

tb/the rebels/banditos have to somehow free clancy from nico and potentially fight him in the process

[tough timber]

lol even more delusional we need three torchbearers so one can lead the banditos, one can lead the rebels, and one can go rescue clancy

parallel to the jokes about josh doing all the hard work in all the mvs and stuff lol

[lean mango]

this feels big

[tough timber]

i freaked myself out earlier when having this realization

only a tiny bit calmer about it now

[wraith gulch]

Facecat, didn’t want to tag you but curious if you have any thoughts regarding #1273759311264354467

[lean mango]

checking now, btw I don't mind pings if it's something people wants me to notice that I might miss otherwise, just would prefer not to have them in responses during a conversation (AKA the default to on in direct replies)

[tame tendon]

I just wish Sacarver wouldn’t annoy me about it though, it feels like something that’s gonna be enforced if I do it

[lean mango]

ye lol, that's fair

I do prefer them being kept to a minimum but once in awhile is fine

[wraith gulch]

Good to know!

The main thing I wanted you to see is the || backslide || IG reel I posted in there, then I just started pointing out other stuff about the background visuals

[sly hazel]

Clancy and Torchy double album incoming
https://fxtwitter.com/twentyonepilots/status/1837570954186084755?t=Tbb0Z0tvijmsD2lJeOHZow&s=19

[modern atlas]

wouldn’t it be easy?? Then the story can start and end in 10 year time frame

[rancid delta]

FBR would probably want to promote BF10 wayyyyy more than whatever this second half ends up being. Because you know why.

I'd say there should at least be a 2 month minimum between the two things

For proper a rollout and marketing

[modern atlas]

they can promote it with an ending

[lean mango]

From a music promo perspective, though, that would just be a distraction

They'll want to celebrate BF10 with directly Blurryface album related stuff, an ending won't be that because the majority of people aren't invested in the lore

[sleek pendant]

well i’d say, especially since a lot of blurryface enjoyers mightn’t know the lore, that most likely wouldn’t happen but it could we never know

as much as i’d love it, it just seems like a logistical nightmare

[tame tendon]

It would’ve also been the Clancy one year anniversary but it was released on the 24th instead

[rancid delta]

Now he's drowning in logistics

[modern atlas]

If FPE’s end in november, what if they’re some of the lyrics to The Line?

[tame tendon]

Hmm, do you mean the message in the letters

[cedar yacht]

If they plan it out right it would be cool to see 10 anniversary w smth new

[modern atlas]

yes

[dark ermine]

On this month cover of Lightning and Sound Magazine 👀

(I know it’s not a reference on the double album and just a coincidence, I just thought it was funny)

[lean mango]

They did say they have 10-12 additional songs with lighting prepped

Def worth discussing here I think

[cedar yacht]

Wdym additional songs

[lean mango]

They didn't say, only that they have lighting done for 10-12 songs that aren't currently on the setlist but will be later

Could be old ones swapped in, could be new songs

But in the past, setlist changes on tour have almost universally been new songs from the most recent album

[weak cave]

i wouldn’t be surprised if they did a second leg with a new set of songs set to release next year with the whole “clancy ultimate chapter” and everyone waiting for something to happen on june 25th only to shift that belief to june 2025

[weak cave]

could be files from last tour, just modified a bit for this tour, i assume at this point where you’re designing sets for a stage a certain size and aren’t exceeding those or downsizing, those assets would stay with the band, for example lavish didn’t have anything very special going on (pyro, smoke, confetti) so if they did lavish NEXT tour id expect the same performance with the same graphics (i am Rambling)

[lean mango]

They specified that they're additional songs timecoded at the same time as the ones for this tour

But ofc they could totally just be old songs mostly

Also the implication was that they're for this tour specifically and not next one

They usually swap 1-2 songs per leg, 10-12 total is a lot

[modern atlas]

when did they say this

[modern atlas]

just to clarify, second leg means unannounced tour locations and not europe, right?

[teal compass]

their lighting director shap was in lighting & sound magazine this month and talked about it there

the important bit

[modern atlas]

where is this magazine?

[teal compass]

you can read the full thing here https://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&pubid=71008c3f-72b2-4919-902a-1ffab7c02c52

the twenty one pilots part starts on page 40

[weak cave]

yeah, i’m talking a second NA run, nothin before may 2025

so shap has 10-12 songs not on the setlist that have lighting set to go, it could be that they may have planned to do a roulette encore song like taylor swift, and the shows that have gotten slowtown, plus other songs that were strong candidates to be on the set but others took precedence to fit the time slot/ avoid fines

[lean mango]

Fellas, remember how there's a gap page between the two and the 5 on the Clancy Ultimus Capitulus thing, a page with a thick vertical line?

what if this entire time that wasn't referring to 25, but 2/5, or February 5th?

that'd put it between legs

after south america and before mexico

nvm, forget I said anything lol, I forgot the letters are all spaced out like that

[tame tendon]

I like your idea that we’ll get letter 25 today, if that actually happens then it means TOP are gonna come out with something huge today

I also like the idea that episode 3 of the tour could come out today because it’d be the same amount of days since 2 that it was between 1 and 2

[wheat gorge]

maybe i'm getting my hopes way too high but I mean, tomorrow could be a pretty big day

• if we get Letter 025, then that confirms some big focus on the number moving forward
• Letter 025 would give us the name of the final citizen out of the 14, and could give us alot more info about the underground catacombs, which seems to be an importnant focus now
• and if we get episode 3 of the tour, then perhaps they could do something strange like with ep. 2 and the flashes of Nico

• and of course, the ever-present possibility of Blurryface activity inside and outside of the show. would be nice for Montreal, since Canada only has 2 shows this whole tour so far

[cedar yacht]

And don't forget Tyler performing!!!

[left kite]

12 songs.. The Line + 11 songs from Clancy Part 2.... Is 25 songs lol

[dark ermine]

So we always though that the 14 songs on Clancy were the tracks of the album + The Craving Single Version but…probably it’s The Line instead

[wraith gulch]

If you consider “the line” as the line in the logo connecting two albums too…

[wheat gorge]

I mean.... we know there were a few cut songs off Clancy, ie. Drag Path and Graffiti... what if The Line was another one, repurposed for Arcane when he was approached to write a song for the show... of course Tyler wouldn't want to just come out be like "yeah this is a scrapped song for my album, decided to give it to Arcane" because that would come off as disingenuous

[lean mango]

Well, if there's a double album I think it's possible that they were approached about making a song for Arcane while he had loose ideas of a double album, and he specifically planned the timing so that The Line would be between the two halves and could be the connecting song

In which case it was probably specifically written both for Arcane and to work for the lore too

[wheat gorge]

yeah, i could see that. I remember Tyler saying that Heathens was sorta both for "suicide squad" and not for the movie, and if they didn't take it, they still would have released it or even maybe slapped in on to Trench (don't quote me on that last part, but I think he mentioned that at some point)

so The Line could have been something written for Clancy and/or a double album, and eventually worked out better to be its own thing but possibly bridging the gap between both works, fittingly "the line" between them

[cedar yacht]

Like heathens

U said it sry

[lean mango]

IDK why I it didn't occur to me before, but showing Tyler and Josh separate in all their promo could literally just be a way to convey that "half is missing"

[proven harbor]

Heathens was being developed for their next album which at the time was trench before it was in the movie but they decided to release it separately for the movie

[tame tendon]

I’ve definitely said this before, but if Heathens was supposed to be on Trench it would be in the place of Levitate

Especially because of the last verse of Heathens

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 20!

[sudden hawk]

big brained

[wraith gulch]

Why is that so simple and so obvious yet the first time I’ve seen it described that way haha. Makes perfect sense.

[dark ermine]

So what do you think the final message of the letters is gonna tease? Lyrics from a new song? What’s gonna happen when we get the entire phrase?

[tame tendon]

I’m honestly not sure what the context is gonna be

[dark ermine]

I hope it’s gonna be a lyrics. Something like “We are banditos” reversed that appeared on Dema Website a little before Jumpsuit/Nico and the Niners release

[modern atlas]

That is what I thought

If there's a torchbearer album it better open with Bandito (Josh's Version)

💀

[lean mango]

I'm the torch, I'm the torchbearer

[dark ermine]

Everything feels empty without any MV of Clancy to look forward (except The Line coming in a few weeks maybe), there HAS TO be more

[tame tendon]

We have the end of the letters to look forward to

Like today’s in around 3 hours

[dark ermine]

Right, I just hope that the final message will be important for something

[dark ermine]

What if…”Doomed” it’s the name of the second part/deluxe of the album or something like that?

[patent coral]

Track 2 of adihgrtnsnd tracklist?!?!

[tame tendon]

I feel like it’ll say done instead of doomed, cause that would mean they’re still not done. Not done. Not done. Josh Dun

[dark ermine]

“and if we become them we’re not done’ it’s a good theory tho

[tame tendon]

I was actually thinking it’ll say “we will be done”

Cause no one’s become anyone yet I don’t think

[dark ermine]

Oh yeah, you’re right

[rancid delta]

Just IMAGINE if that "not done. not done. Josh Dun." line was actually a tease for a torchbearer themed album this ENTIRE TIME

[neat epoch]

that would be SO FIRE-

[dark ermine]

That would make so much sense because it’s only in Blurryface, Trench and Clancy 👀

SAI was propaganda and especially didn’t have the “Josh Dun” lyric

Saw this on another thread, what do you think? It’s veeeery suspicious

[tame tendon]

Omg that’s true. Man now I’m starting to panic

Wait. What if we actually get a fifteenth letter to compensate for that

[wheat gorge]

I've come to the same conclusion and fully believe there's something special happening on at least the final show's FPE. my current predictions from most to least likely are:

1. all 14 letters present for final show
2. a new dmaorg link to a website with all 14 letters
3. a final letter from Clancy ("029"/Clancy's 13th Letter)
4. (if 021-022 is just two pieces (given the length of 022)) then a final letter (likely from Clancy) split in two ("029" and "030")
5. if we only get 013.5, 021, 025, 026, and 028 (028 on Columbus Night 3) then that would leave four more shows for another conversation between two characters ("029" and "030" with "031" and "032" as response) - this convo could be between two new characters, the NATN kids, TB and Clancy, Clancy and Nico, or my personal favorite idea: Keons and Clancy, with Keons' Letter before his death, and Clancy's after.

[tame tendon]

This last part is actually genius. From the beginning I was thinking that these letters would only last until the Columbus shows

[wheat gorge]

if scenario 5 is true, that could mean we get 013.5 and 021 during Chicago, and then in order, 026, 025, and lastly 028 for the Columbus shows. I think this because clearly there is something very important about the author of the final letter and his work in the Catacombs, so to reveal all of that during the Columbus shows would be on brand, and the boom one last conversation after it, fit perfectly to the final four shows

[tame tendon]

I doubt they’re gonna split 021 into two so what we’ll get is 013.5, 021, 025, 026, and 028 possibly in that order, like what you said

But at the very beginning of these letters I was thinking they’d end at the hometown shows

And now maybe what we know now will end there then we’ll get some crazy thing next

[dark ermine]

I agree, it's the most likely thing imho. A whole new letter and not divided into several parts, written by Torchbearer for Clancy before they met again in the Navigating MV.

[tame tendon]

I half agree with you. I think the last thing we get could explain what’s about to happen after Paladin instead of what already happened between OC and Navigating

[dark ermine]

I don't know about that, if the double album/deluxe theory is true I expect them to tell the real ending and the continuation of PS.

[tame tendon]

Whatever happens, at some point TOP have to reveal what happens after Clancy opens his eyes and/or why he could open his eyes that time

[proven harbor]

Hey it’s me!

XD

[dark ermine]

Yep ahah

[dark ermine]

Not beyond 2025, I hope

[tame tendon]

Exactly