Double Album Confirmed

[wheat gorge]

probably directing towards the citizens, sorta like how in Clancy's first escape, he was told to "stay low" and "wait for the torches." When the Banditos arrive and the battle is over, the citizens need to follow the torches out of the city

[waxen meteor]

but u could have found it from just the gif

i guess they thought the puzzle was too hard lol

[wheat gorge]

I think the nine circle symbol in the gif was just our hint to put the violation code in that portion of the url. they usually give us one or two ways to figure out a code, sorta like Blurry's twt banner having image 103 and 37 with the white arrow, but also the posted video having "violation code DMA- 103.37", both to hint us to switch the url to that

[quartz sphinx]

Well the gif url was incomplete

[sly hazel]

The gif didn't have the full violation code in it

https://dmaorg.info/found/||l_./clancy.html
this was the link that the gif had in it

which now doesn't work

[waxen meteor]

you can use the blurryface pattern in the gif

[sly hazel]

Oh it actually still does

[sly hazel]

we didn't know that pattern yet

[waxen meteor]

the violation code is the track numbers of the blurryface circles

[quartz sphinx]

Oh also just an observation about the newer site update with the PS teaser. Although the video had that code in it, you had to have that code to find the video.

[sly hazel]

we had no idea about any of that stuff until a good while later on

[waxen meteor]

no but thats what im saying, it was solvable.. unless im missing something?

like it was possible to realize that the pattern was blurryface album cover

[sly hazel]

Wha

This was before we even knew the bishops existed

[waxen meteor]

this image

[sly hazel]

we didn't know their names, how they linked to Dema, how that refers to the BF cover and their names hidden in the tracks etc etc

[waxen meteor]

the thing where the fpe code goes it sht ebf album cover. the fpe violation code matches the bf album cover as its shown here

left to right, top to bottom, then an underscore before the bottom right dot

use the track numbers

[sly hazel]

yes

read what I just said

this was before we had any of that info

[waxen meteor]

but the mvs and tour always linked the songs with the batterns on the ocver

you dont need the bishops to solve the puzzle

[sly hazel]

?

[waxen meteor]

the patterns are used in the lyrics booklet, MVs, and on the tour

[sly hazel]

Yeah again, we didn't know what any of that meant until after we'd already found the violation code on dmaorg

[waxen meteor]

🤦‍♂️ ok but my point is that you could have figured it out before already knowing the code, all of the info was there it was just a hard puzzle

[sly hazel]

the only reason we figured out that the code matches the cover
is because we got the code first

It wasn't even a puzzle
we legit just got given the link lmfao

[quartz sphinx]

And the link led directly to the code needed to make the url work

[waxen meteor]

thinking about the fpe code more, back when we were looking at the missing goner blurryface listings, i spitballed a theory (with very little evidence) that perhaps for the 10th anniversary we could get a deluxe album with new songs in between not today and goner

now that i think about it more, there is the underscore in the code before goner...

the underscore is like, empty space

like afaik theres no reason you NEED an underscore, i mean it could just be random to place it there, but what if it had a deeper meaning? that there is something missing in the album before goner?

[sly hazel]

It was there to make it actually separate as a "14" and not a "1" and a "4"

every other track is a single number
goner is a double so it needed to be separated so it didn't get confused

[waxen meteor]

maybe, but thats just an interpretation

[bright violet]

this makes the most sense to me

[viral quail]

Catching up on this thread and this whole tangent made me cackle

Also in line with this - each song on BF in line with a different bishop have we done this with SAI yet
I know @devout mango mentioned this and how each SAI song could be written in the presence of a different bishop
That line of thinking reminds how most songs have a twin from another album so if we lined up each SAI song with which bishop was influencing that song then we could compare them to BF

Idk I’ve lost my mind at this point

[bright violet]

(sorry for replying 3 days later) based on the heights of theones near it, it's nico's, if this reddit post from two years ago is to be trusted. https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/comments/z0znjl/comment/ix8ltub/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[teal compass]

i could be misreading but i think theyre just saying you could have connected the tracklist numbers with the 9 dot pattern without being given the code? we knew the songs that each circle was linked to already before any of the dema stuff from the blurryface song visualizers so you could reasonably connect the 9 dots to needing the track number of the songs

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 38!

[teal compass]

its definitely easier to just notice the connection after being given the code but i do see what theyre saying about being able to figure it out without the code

none of the dema lore knowledge is necessary for the track associations to the circles

[devout mango]

Idk if this is relevant. But a long time ago I showed my husband the names in the Blurryface songs. And he told me Tyler "probably made them retroactively" and just used the songs. That worked for my brain for about 2 minutes. Then I started thinking... Isn't Andres name and Nico's too important to have came up with them later and then magically they're in the BF songs? Someone explain this to me like I'm 5 please 🙏🏽💕

[teal compass]

honestly i think its kinda up to debate, some of tylers recent comments are pushing the idea that a lot of this has been planned for a long time going on 10 years but according to tylers comments during trench era most of the specifics of dema and the bishops and trench were fleshed out during the blurryface tour cycle and happened as a response to the natural development of ideas over the album cycle of blurryface. Maybe he was being coy back then maybe hes revising history a bit whos to say

personally i tend to believe a lot of his comments at the time more than his sweeping statements that generalize everything and contradict the past and would say the bishop names were pobably retroactive in my opinion especially since nico was missing and they (potentially) mispelled lisden initially on accident

andre is also the only one actually in a song that isnt gibberish which makes me think that too, id imagine more would be "real" names if they were seeded out that early

maybe even more closely associated to bourbaki

[devout mango]

That's fair. I might take a look at the specific songs they're associate with just to make sure it doesn't give me any useful thoughts 🤔

Without listening to any songs yet, I just thought of "she's a carver". And the other day we were pondering who "she" could be in some other songs. Like Redecorate and Vignette there's a mysterious "she"

[plush island]

These are all Vessel songs videos...

[devout mango]

I was just gonna say "I bet we could find real names in the lyrics anyways if we tried". But that just reminded me of a video I saw where Tyler was talking about the phrase "sahlo folina" and how he felt that no real words that existed yet could give off the feeling that he was looking for. So he made up a word and watched it gain it's meaning. I'm tired rn but I'm trying to think of how this can relate to the names of the bishops not being traditional names 🤷🏽‍♀️

[safe spade]

Its the "gif" that was from the merch store where the link was found its just not the full gif

[safe spade]

Well at least in Redecorate its someone (she) who ends up committing Vialism....

[plush island]

They did the same with the bishops buttons on the control panel in SAI liveatream and the SAI song booklet....

[plush island]

I thought Sahlo Folina was Somali?

Never mind

I think I'm thinking of something else

[safe spade]

Kinda unrelated but there was vialism book in the SAI contol room right? I kinda wonder why we haven't seen it again....

[devout mango]

https://youtu.be/JdBs1jk0JRA?si=1uv3c03xaOUp5rlp this is where Tyler talks about it at 3:50 they ask him "what does sahlo folina mean in banditos"

[waxen meteor]

update on the blurryface vinyl listing in the store. we had prev checked wayback and it wasnt archived before march 2024. someone on reddit helped me find wayback for it back to 2017 -- just add .html to the url (which is identical). unfortunately, it looks like the listing has looked super weird and been missing goner since 2017. so i think it's very unlikely that the store listing is a hint for this era. https://web.archive.org/web/20170604052754/http://store.twentyonepilots.com/blurryface-black-vinyl.html

[lean mango]

Weird that they haven't corrected it in all this time

But good update

[safe spade]

🤨 hmmm since 2017 is.........interesting

Makes me think of snapback.......still weird no one corrected it....

[olive plume]

snap back… the last blurryface show…

he was no longer a goner

[sly hazel]

Well yeah but why would you need to do all of that to get the dmaorg link when it was on the site already plain as day which was the point

[plush island]

GUYS I TOOK THE TIME TO DO A THING

These are all the bishops present for the "writing sessions" Clancy talks about in the letters based on the colors in the SAI booklet

At one point he says "he was never there. I would have felt his presence." I always thought for some reason that he was talking about Nico but Nico's pale yellow is very obviously present on several pages... the only bishop whose color IS NOT present is Vetomo

Why was he never present and why would Clancy have felt his presence?!??!?!!?

[safe spade]

🤨 oh shoot....

[wraith gulch]

Wait a minute

There’s a whole theory about Vetomo actually being key to this whole thing I’ve read before

Let me do some searching

[safe spade]

👀

[plush island]

AND SAI WAS VERY DIFFERENT

[wraith gulch]

https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1212845573376450591

There’s more elsewhere, off to look again

[safe spade]

Soooo Vetomo is Conformity??

[wraith gulch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/s/Tz5juGzuCI same idea based on BF cover, just on reddit

[safe spade]

🤔 Sooo did Vetomo betray the other bisbops as well??

[waxen meteor]

yep i think were all on the same page there was just a lot of failed communication going on 😂

[wraith gulch]

Here’s a thread not specifically about vetomo but about comparing BF/SAI tracks and bishops:

https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/s/igq11hpKrY

[waxen meteor]

im p confused can you really spell this out for me 😂 ik the bishops have colors in the buttons in the control room

isnt there also something with fonts in SAI?

[wraith gulch]

The lyric booklet for the album

https://musicbrainz.org/release/9de1b318-f601-4312-80c1-234d7e7d9b2e/cover-art

[plush island]

This control panel is shown at the beginning of the SAI livestream and all of the colors match up with certain songs in SAI booklet which represent which bishops were "present" during the writing of the songs i.e. what Tyler was struggling with most during each one

Vetomo "Conformity" is NEVER present however

[plush island]

My bad

Just saw that part

I hadn't heard about the fonts mattering though

[sly hazel]

Vetemo not being there is certainly interesting now that I think about it

[plush island]

Also this little bar of colors might signify that all were there except for Vetomo

[sly hazel]

Like this whole thing started with Fairly Local
About switching to not repeat yesterday
Not fitting in and sticking to the same thing
SAI was a huge step out of line for them, changing their entire sound and direction

[waxen meteor]

this is the biggest reach ever but there is a bit of light brown on this page -- in the curtains at the bottom, and josh's shirt

[plush island]

Yes but I'm not sure if the pictures count or if it's just the pages with lyrics

[plush island]

But it's a good catch and may still be representative that the desire to conform and "fit in" was still present in some form

[waxen meteor]

also the outside tylers shirt

which is interesting bc its about conformity

[plush island]

I was only going off the lyrics and background colors but that's a good observation.....

[waxen meteor]

im not 100% everything ppl found about th efonts -- its before my time -- but i think each lyric video has its own font eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2w6GkV3U6Q. idk if the fonts were also used elsewhere

[plush island]

I think the lyric pages go along with the deeper story and the bishops and Clancy and TB lore and the photos of Josh and Tyler have a more symbolic meaning showing that they feel like they have to fit in even if they don't want to

[safe spade]

I actually found a google drive link with like everything from all the eras including SAI hold on

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qDP64Vqhv-TIuM99pVXcaIaR30u6-kBr

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jspNenSxN8xXBUmcg7fMb9WtR1sdQeyZ

Ya know what......I was rewatching Shy Away yesterday and towards the end of the video there are multiple versions of Josh and Tyler....

[waxen meteor]

yeah those masked version are so creepy. also look like something in the haunted link u sent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IigZXFhkbMM

0:41

[plush island]

Am I crazy or does it look like there are words hidden in the spaces in the Blurryface lyric book ? And also why are there a bunch of question marks and why are they upside down?

[safe spade]

An awesome call back to car radio.....

🤨 You got a picture at all??

[plush island]

The circle for Goner

I don't know just looks like those spaces very weird and very intentionally placed

[waxen meteor]

https://musicbrainz.org/release/c7d35c12-4cfd-4842-bb27-ea777147cb35/cover-art

[wraith gulch]

Haha, I haven’t read this in a very long time.

[safe spade]

Ooo the question marks.....

Ok I just realized in Routines they are in 9 different rooms the whole video.....

[olive plume]

i love the trench acknowledgements where they were like “we know you like stressed out” 🥲

[plush island]

3 album theory confirmed! 😤 their discography + Torchbearer + Inferno would be 9 albums

Does it become more prominent if you place the clear plastic over it? Or am I legit going insane

[safe spade]

Oh it definitely does

[devout mango]

Goner. The song missing from the track listing since 2017 on that sold out single lp on the website. Makes me wonder if that has anything to do with the thing we "missed back then" that Tyler was talking about?

[plush island]

OH MY GOD

[wraith gulch]

Color me intrigued.

[devout mango]

I've thought to myself "wouldn't it be funny if Tyler made us find the hidden clue from back then in order to solve a later puzzle" 🤣

[safe spade]

I know Tyler said not everything is lore based but Routines is sus

[plush island]

Oh god... maybe that's why they left Goner off the set list

[plush island]

It sure is

[safe spade]

🚪s in Routines - 1. Bedroom (with no paint and yellow flowers we see later on)

2. Hallway

3. Treehouse room (the only room where Tyler has Red Eyes

[neat vapor]

tower + birds (vultures?) surrounding said tower

[safe spade]

4. White/red room

5. Concrete room

[plush island]

Imagine this IS the thing we missed back then n Tyler is creeping rn and he's like "Hey Josh they're finally on the Goner thing" 😭

[safe spade]

6. Blue room (with yellow flowers)

[devout mango]

@safe spade you said "treehouse room" which makes me think of stressed out. And we know Blurry sings part of that song 🤔

[safe spade]

7. The closet they shoved Josh in

[safe spade]

I always say treehouse room because of all the wood, spiral staircase and we can see trees outside

[plush island]

True in our reversed alt track theory we said that the tree house room represented Blurryface and broke down every room representing an album in the discography but we missed a few I think

[devout mango]

The spiral staircase makes me think of a treehouse for sure

[olive plume]

i always thought maybe this room is actually at the top of the spiral stairs, like a sort of storage space, since we never see tyler up there but we see him on the stairs

[wraith gulch]

Don’t want to interrupt the RITN discussion but also wanted to share this. Very interesting interview with Brandon Rike about the BF designs.

https://medium.com/@brandonrike/behind-blurryface-f561771315a

[safe spade]

8. Bishop Closet

[plush island]

Do you think it's significant that there are 5 drawers?

[safe spade]

9. Josh + 1 lone Bishop room (or Black room)

[safe spade]

Ya know...maybe 🤔

[wraith gulch]

Also the paint cans in this room

Thought that was weird the first time I saw the video during the livestream

[plush island]

There are 8 cans/containers in the corner... also why is the door open?

[wraith gulch]

Oh I never noticed the door being open….interesting…

[safe spade]

Whoa me ethier 👀

[plush island]

I didn't notice until I zoomed in to count the paint cans

[safe spade]

Whats interesting is that we start in the back of the hallway

[wraith gulch]

Oh and in my research of this, found someone that discovered the goner missing thing 4 years ago (I know someone said today this actually happened back in 2017 due to the way back machine)

[plush island]

There are 13 o's crossed out

[plush island]

Maybe THIS is what we missed back then ... some sort of hidden code or message here

[safe spade]

Hmmmm maybe we should check Trench too.......

More paint cans

Also took me forevet to screenshot but this shot is creepy

Its right before the shot of Tyler with the red eyes

He also points at his eyes in the blue room....🤨

[wraith gulch]

Looks like antlers almost

[devout mango]

There's a couple of ø's where you can see there was a line through the ø before the long line was drawn. Look at "we don't believe what's in TV"

[wraith gulch]

The interview with Brandon Rike I posted, he basically said everything is intentional in the album art because he knows we the fanbase will dig into every little detail

[safe spade]

Which means...

🗣 DIGITAL REMAINS MEANS SOMETHING

[devout mango]

And I never payed attention to where the lines go for some reason I thought they all continued the entire length of the page 🤔

[wraith gulch]

Do we know who made that?

[safe spade]

The band it never says who exactly made it

[wraith gulch]

Yeah I didn’t think so…not sure if that would be a Brandon thing or not. Could see either way

[safe spade]

Also things I moticed it Routines: that Red room is more white them turns completely red at times

Theres a red stop sign in the blue room

[wraith gulch]

That looks like a label sticker on the hot water heater or furnace or something

Hot water heater

[safe spade]

Eh i figured as much I just noticed it forreal since im always focused on the blue

Pointing at his eyes saying to

This always stuck out to me but its framed like someones watching him

[devout mango]

I thought he might be talking to Nico (feeling comfortable in your depression and not wanting to change due to fear or whatnot)

[safe spade]

Oh and heres the kicker

[wraith gulch]

For sure. Just to make extra sure I found an actual picture of the same hot water heater with that same sticker. This band got my search history looking so bizarre.

[devout mango]

Goner is the only song on the lyric page with no (¿) mark

[wraith gulch]

Interesting…

[wraith gulch]

Ohhh

[devout mango]

Referring to this sorry. Each song has a (¿) or a couple of them. Goner doesn't have the symbol

[wraith gulch]

So goner is like, super extra insanely important in a way that we can’t quite figure out

[wraith gulch]

The best and worst parts that keep him company. If Josh is supposed to represent God (the trinity theory) and BF (?) in the background. Or keons, either way a bishop.

This chat freaking cooks in the middle of the night, I love it

[safe spade]

So what kills me is in the blue room Tyler turns to look at the yellow flowers than this scene happens

[devout mango]

Wait a second that makes me think since there's no question marks on Goner, than it must be the answer 💀

[wraith gulch]

You 💀 but actually….

[plush island]

OH SHIT THAT'S BRILLIANT

[safe spade]

wAIT

[wraith gulch]

Wait so

[safe spade]

🗣 Domingo en fuego

[wraith gulch]

Does that mean Nills is actually incredibly important too? Like perhaps Vetomo?

[safe spade]

I think soo because theres no real reason for ¿ in english

[lean mango]

It would be funny if Nills, one of the barely-mentioned bishops, suddenly becomes super important

[wraith gulch]

But wouldn’t it also be weird for so many of these bishops to be so…understated…in a story arc that surpasses a decade? In a way it makes sense especially we are even more sure we aren’t at the end of the story

[plush island]

On the canvas on spotify for Goner there is one RED bird???

[wraith gulch]

One red bird during the live show display for Goner as well

[safe spade]

I forgot to say its him opening his eyes wide

[wraith gulch]

Ah ok

[waxen meteor]

guys i figured it out.

josh is harry potter

[wraith gulch]

There’s honestly so many HP parallels I could make a whole separate theory thread on that but anyway 🤣

[devout mango]

I believe in Spanish it goes ¿Question? And there's no (?) only question beginnings

[safe spade]

Yep!! For example: ¿Donde estas?

[waxen meteor]

im cooking way too hard with this, and it sort of conflicts a tiny bit with interviews tyler has given about the song, but i cant help linking it to redecorate with josh as the guy in the first verse.

also, we have never seen josh play redecorate except for less than 20 seconds in the livestrem experience, and it was remixed with lane boy there...

i also think josh lowkey has some backing vocals in redecorate

[plush island]

So no answers

[high stag]

"Out of student loans and tree house homes, we all would take the latter" -Stressed Out

[safe spade]

Ngl it DOES make sense because he has red eyes in Stressed Out....and fairly local

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 7!

[devout mango]

YOU GUYS THE QUESTION MARKS ARE REPEATS OF THE WHITE WRITING I BELIEVE

[high stag]

It's also giving

"Something happened to my imagination
This situation's becoming dire
My treehouse is on fire
And for some reason I smell gas on my hands" -Forest

[devout mango]

In HDS in this pic if you replace the white ¿ With the white lyrics it lines up

[plush island]

GUYYYSS IF GONER IS THE ANSWER THE WORD GHOST IS IN GONER

THE WORD TYLER HID IN FAKE SETLIST

[neat vapor]

MORPH MOMENT?!

[waxen meteor]

@plush island read part 2 https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/comments/1dtvny2/comment/lbe4r7c/

[wraith gulch]

Oh so it’s to signify repetition of the white

like repeating the chorus

[safe spade]

Hmm

[wraith gulch]

That’s actually unfortunate that’s all it means hahaha

[plush island]

Wait there are 3 question marks on the Dema letter that got sent out at start of cycle... there are 3 versions of Goner technically - it was on No Pun Intended, RAB, and Blurryface

[devout mango]

But there's repeated parts in Goner too that aren't repeated on here or marked. Plus, it doesn't say (DONT LET ME BE!) which he screams twice in this song

[plush island]

And there are NO question marks in Goner

[waxen meteor]

yall they are hooks and they symbolize the chorus aka the hook

goner doesnt have it bc theres no chorus

[wraith gulch]

Yeah

[devout mango]

I thought that at first but "I'm a goner somebody catch my breath" ..."I wanna be known by you" I think are repeated more times in the actual track than listed on here. The other songs have every word.

[wraith gulch]

I think Goner is so repetitive if they used the question mark for that reason half of it would be question marks.

[devout mango]

And for sure "Don't let me be" is not on here (picture)

"I'm a goner somebody catch my breath I'm a goner somebody catch my breath I wanna be known be you I wanna be known by you" in white then if it's repeated use (¿) I gotta give it another listen to see if that's repeated

[safe spade]

Its been so long since I looked at the lyrics but I forgot some of the ¿ are red but then some are white...

[waxen meteor]

huh well if this the case ill share this..

dont wanna send ppl on wild goose chase, but i noticed the blurryface album patterns have two blank spots, and that doubt (track 8) has its pattern repeated. i couldn't find any previously proposed theories that explain either of these

[devout mango]

I think mine are all white on the vinyl

[safe spade]

Also damn your right they ARE hooks 😭

[safe spade]

Ooooo interesting

[waxen meteor]

i have a very dumb theory for the repeated pattern for doubt... i think (not 100% sure) its the only bishop lyrics that has a direct repetition immediately after

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 4!

[waxen meteor]

"temperature is dropping, temperature is dropping"

BUT that would mean they already picked the bishop names before blurryface came out, which i dont think we have evidence of

[safe spade]

I mean I couldn't be surprised

People really.....deny how much they've actually planned out from the start

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message we talked about this a little back here

[plush island]

RIGHT? I've been trying to get people to understand Tyler HAD TO HAVE THE BISHOPS NAMES PICKED OUT TO WRITE SONG LYRICS THAT INCORPORATED THEM

[waxen meteor]

oh to be clear im not denying it i just think it doesnt help my dumb theory on why th epattern for 8 is repeated

[plush island]

Or at the very least he picked them after writing the songs which means they've still been around since about 2015ish

[waxen meteor]

eh i disagree

you could write the songs then find lyrics that give reasonable names later

[safe spade]

Oh that wasnt towards you it was just frustration coming out like just because we dont have enough evidence doesnt mean it hasnt happened

[plush island]

True but I can't imagine it was very long after the album was written/came out that they figured out the names

[waxen meteor]

and im pretty sure this must be the case with goner

bc he wrote the lyrics slip away into the sound when he was like a senior in HS

[plush island]

Yeah that's fair

[waxen meteor]

anyone knows if doubting twice is a biblical allusion? i dont know much christian stuff

[safe spade]

🧐 let me refresh my memory

[waxen meteor]

"If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do."

🎶 im double sided 🎶

[safe spade]

🎵"My prayers schizophrenic"🎵

[plush island]

🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵

[safe spade]

So this is a REACH but is it possible each room in Routines matches with a Bishop

Or just something else....

[plush island]

No that could be possible

Also the blinking lights in the old Goner mv remind me of Morph "lights they blink to me transmitting things to me"

[waxen meteor]

i dont think thats a reach at all

exactly 9 rooms is sus lol

with that said, i feel like the room dont have a ton of details

plus like, routines is about walking around inside his head.. aka walking around DEMA

walk through each bishops district

etc

[waxen meteor]

im so botheed that no one ever found something related to tha tlyric in morph during the trench era

tyler is so intentional with lyrics and song design, i just odnt believe he ranomdly placed that in there

[safe spade]

Let me watch the vizualizer again maybe it does something

[plush island]

So we see the lights in Goner blink 4 times, 3 times, then 2 times, 2 times, 2 times

[safe spade]

https://youtu.be/OmL9TqTFIAc?si=1pgUG0zAztkCU678

[plush island]

Also I was today years old when I realized the Goner video from 12 YEARS AGO loops into HDS

[safe spade]

It came out February 11th, 2012

Also the visuals for Trench are actually SO interesting in hindisght

[plush island]

They really are.... like why choose that specifically

OMG the lights blinking in Goner are the area code for Colombus 😂

[safe spade]

Ayeee

I figured it was a radio tower or someghing kabsjs

[plush island]

Yeah probably I wonder why Tyler wanted his area code in the vid

[safe spade]

Its home thats why.....💖

[plush island]

That makes sense 💖

[safe spade]

Hmm soo that one photo on the website/journal is used for Leave The City....idk why I didnt notice

https://youtu.be/zDktApy8Sn0?si=C-WpC77RO3INZXSt

[wraith gulch]

This one?

Because that’s very interesting when you read the letter paired with it. Leave the city for real.

[safe spade]

Its pretty similar

[wraith gulch]

Yeah

[plush island]

Oooohhhh

[devout mango]

This man making me emotional 😭 he was so young at this time. It's mind blowing the thought he put into everything from the beginning

[plush island]

It truly is

Anyway I would love to stay up cooking with you all but I have work tomorrow so I should get sleep

[wraith gulch]

7.5 hours till we find out what that Only Band In the World thing is

Gonna try to get some sleep too

[safe spade]

Yeah im off to bed too!! Night y'all

[devout mango]

Have a good night, don't let the bishops bite or whatever the kids say 💀

[plush island]

Will do my best 🫡 goodnight

[plush island]

Night!

[waxen meteor]

genius. someone needs to add that to the wiki https://twentyonepilots.fandom.com/wiki/Dmaorg.info

i didnt realize either

[devout mango]

Hey I just realized the white spaces line up with Blurry's eyes on the color page

[waxen meteor]

ok i added it

[devout mango]

Visual reference

[safe spade]

I cant sleep BUT before I try again I just saw a video and remembered they had BIRDS flying during leave the city

[waxen meteor]

there are birds in leave the city video yeah

its supposed to be dema

so stormy clouds and vultures flying around

[tough timber]

this + the part where the bishop robe is behind josh kinda makes me think something is up with josh/torchbearer? i have been puzzled by the bishop robe behind him but hadn't thought a lot about the closet or storage room or whatever this is. did dema do something to torch without clancy knowing maybe? idk

[waxen meteor]

ooo ty

[safe spade]

No I mean in TOUR visuals for LTC

[waxen meteor]

ooohh

cyd i also realized out.gif... its file extension is gif but it doesnt move. very strange

[weak thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/but-heres-the-kicker-cat-gif-26549889

[safe spade]

That IS weird I know sometimes people will make a single image a gif but not alot... maybe I'll see what I can uncover tommrrow

[tough timber]

idk if I'm making sense rn bc it's 3:30am and I'm super tired but I have been sort of hyperfixated on what the dangerous bend symbol is supposed to mean and if something is wrong with torch/josh maybe that's what it means?

like bourbaki group used the dangerous bend symbol as something to call attention to difficult problems that could be easily misunderstood and in that context it's like you might not notice something is off without the bend symbol as a warning. so the bend symbol thing could maybe be a warning something is wrong with torch and we're missing it bc we're more focused on clancy? the "right in front of your eyes" line could tie into this idea too idk

am i sleep deprived and making no sense or sleep deprived and finally putting something together lol

[waxen meteor]

yeah i mean maybe it was just a mistake, its just weird bc all of the other photos are jpegs and the other gifs move

[safe spade]

Hmmm most of what they do is intentional so I'll check just in case
Also: https://youtu.be/rOasXTYAlQo?si=LE38K5cHuXsZtrH8

[safe spade]

Hmmm I think there could be something wrong....and I'll look into it more....tommrrow! Go to sleep!!! 🗣😴

[celest dust]

That wayback machine link even includes some reviews, first one dating back to 12/20/2015. So yeah prettty much a dead end I think 😦

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 1!

[devout mango]

I was looking into clues pertaining to sacarver when I was lead to this page (as usual). But while I was reading the part about the names being linked to Blurryface song lyrics, I noticed this screenshot attached. It's referring to "severing tiez" being written under the dema map on DMA org with the top corner missing. Idk if I'm making sense so far, so I was wondering what "severing tiez" could be talking about (there's the obvious, the map of dema is severed ? and he wants to sever ties with dema perhaps?) but I instantly thought of the lyric "sleep in a well lit room don't let the shadow through and sever all I knew" levitate. And levitate has sooooo many other lyrical references to other songs, I bet I don't even know them all... "Got back what I once bought back in that slot I dont need to replace" -levitate (car radio referenced). "This culture is a poacher of overexposure not today don't feed me to the vultures I am a vulture who feeds on pain" -levitate (not today referenced). And then... My point... curiously he says "chorus verse chorus now here comes the eight wait habits here too you're the worst your structure compensates"... What's the eight ? Is that a musical term I'm not familiar with? Even if it is, could there be a double meaning since he's technically one of the Bishops [Tyler/Clancy/Nico] could the "eight" be meaning eight bishops?

[waxen meteor]

on severing ties -- bit of context just in case, there was a social media hiatus (total radio silence) between end of blurryface era and start of trench that last ed 1 year. near the end of this hiatus, they won an award for 'most dedicated fanbase', and only josh attended the ceremony. josh went up on stage and said 'sorry tyler couldn't be here, he's busy severing ties with dema right now'

i do think tyler probably had some very important non lore reason he couldnt go bc he wouldnt have left josh to wolves just for lore given josh's severe public speaking anxiety esp back then... but anyway i think it gives us a good reference point for severing ties

[glass flare]

the 8 is a part in a song similar to a bridge also called middle 8 (mostly 8 bars long)

[devout mango]

Oh riiiight. Huh, maybe that was a joke or maybe he was drawing more attention to the lyric? Imo "sever all I knew" is a super heavy way to say what he says beautifully in Oldies Station "in a season of purging things you used to love everything must go"

[devout mango]

Could it be a double entendre? 🤷🏽‍♀️

[waxen meteor]

i think it absolutely could be-- can also link 'structure' back to 'structure of the city'

[glass flare]

Sure like everything lol

[celest dust]

wow took me a solid half hour to read up on everything and it smells like fresh soup here with all this cooking y'all have been doing.

Goner seems so important!

Interstingly, the birds on the image of Goner both on the CD version linked above as well as on the official lyrics video on YT seem to be swallows, which are usually associates with hope or good luck

[sleek pendant]

so the word ghost is the 70th word in goner and it’s sung at 1:08 idk what to do with this info but

[waxen meteor]

yall is the paladin strait intro an accordion sound or am i losing it?

and if its not an accordion tf is it

[sleek pendant]

it’s like some whirly synth

[vale canyon]

Whats the little bird from some of the letters in DR called?

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 4!

[waxen meteor]

notebook logo? do u mean the species of bird

[vale canyon]

Yup

There are some little birds at the end of some pages in DR

[vale canyon]

In morph, "I'm just a ghost" line ends in 1:08 probably nothing BUT STILL haha

[celest dust]

The one in the notebooks is a magpie I think. The ones flying around Dema (where it is not on fire and where it is on fire) are not clear to me. But I'm not bird expert haha

[vale canyon]

Songbird? CYBERPUNK REFERENCE?

[celest dust]

Yep that's the one. Interesting actually how I cannot find that logo anywhere else. Like, it might be a custom notebook. But then if it is, then why put this logo there?

[vale canyon]

Searching with similar images on google, and doesn't appear again, it recognizes that is a magpie but nothing more

[celest dust]

Yep same results here 🤷‍♂️

[celest dust]

Okay hold my beer:

So we've been speculating about Goner right.

There's a Sleepers version of Goner. Chapter 05. The description of the YouTube clip is "Chapter 5: the fifth and final chapter".

Ultimus Capitulus?

The length of this version according to Bandcamp is 06:25 (the YT video is longer but the song itself is 06:25).

6/25?

The song was released on July 5th. Exactly 7 years ago. The band tweeted about it at 16:02PM (in my timezone, Europe) July 5 2017. Guess what's happening today at 16:00PM? "The only band in the world" website goes live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURe-Upjts8

[lean mango]

Uhhh damn

That's interesting

That's a wild coincidence if it's a coincidence

Where's the Bandcamp version?

[celest dust]

https://gustavomusics43.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers

Not sure if official though

I almost feel like the start of this version could follow right after the end of the PS mv

[lean mango]

Hm, doesn't seem official, but this is still interesting, and at the very least this video being exactly 7 years old and corresponding both to Goner and final chapter feels at least worth checking out

[celest dust]

There's a couple of other Sleeper versions on YT (also not official) that are 6:25 as well

[lean mango]

I wonder where they got them

Maybe just cutting out the talking in the video

[celest dust]

Yeah I guess so - there's some intro noises but the actual song starts at 5:11 in the official Goner Sleepers video

[plush island]

Back to what me, @safe spade @wraith gulch @devout mango and a couple others were working on last night:

The line throuh Goner is thicker than the rest. I was thinking about what these look like and they kinda look like fibers... which made me think of Choker "lay the fibers side by side and you'll begin to understand" also the words Goner and Choker kinda of have some similarities

[celest dust]

So on this specific CD, there's the thick line as well as the upside down question marks right? And all songs except for Goner have that? (I don't have this one myself)

[plush island]

Yes

[sleek pendant]

i would check if i could find my bf cd

[vital arrow]

Totally agree

[devout mango]

I'm working in something but I'm gonna share it here cause I've started and it's a large task and I feel it could be important. I noticed while watching HDS music video that there are points in the song when Josh plays very little (single hits on the drum) [I feel like he does the same thing in overcompensate but I haven't checked yet]. And it got me thinking, could Josh's drums mean something? (Like for instance maybe he doesn't play back up for blurry/Nico or something). So I started writing down the times when Josh really doesn't drum much throughout blurryface and here's what I've got so far: "gangsters don't cry therefore therefore I'm Mr misty eyed therefore I'm" -HDS (Josh single hits on drum) "death inspired me like a dog inspires a rabbit death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit can you save can you save my HDS" (single hits). Also Josh appears to have yellow hair in the HDS music video which I didn't notice before. Next is stressed out, during which Josh never plays during the first time Tyler sings "wish we could turn back time to the good ol days when the mama sang us to sleep but now where stressed out" in each chorus. Ok now Ride, Josh stops playing immediately when Tyler starts singing for the first time. AND he holds his sticks up towards the camera in a way I've seen before in the SAI Livestream.

[sleek pendant]

btw the goner line is also thicker on the vinyl

same with the question marks

so it’s not some coincidence it was made to be found

[plush island]

Josh also does some single hits on the drum in Navigating

[sleek pendant]

goner is fishy there’s something to know

[devout mango]

There's a LOT of Goner that doesn't have drums...

[devout mango]

He comes in with single hits for "though I'm weak and beaten down I slip away into the sound the ghost of you is close to me I'm inside out you're underneath" then stops for each time it's sung. And then he plays while Tyler is screaming "don't let me be" and plays the whole rest of the song (but not during "by you" the last 2 words of the song)

[celest dust]

Is there a page like this that contains Goner lyrics? Or is it only the one with the circle?

[plush island]

Only the circle

[plush island]

You were the one working on lining up dots in the images right?

@devout mango

There are two dots on Josh's hand in the Bounce Man pic

[devout mango]

I was looking at it. Some people over in #1252729689949339751 were playing around with lining up pictures. I don't have really good software but what we're you thinking? 🤔

I tried lining up some things 🤷🏽‍♀️ could be oriented in a different way? and I should be using an original version of this blurryface album but I wasn't sure where to find one

[wraith gulch]

Interesting. You have seen where people have overlaid trash the dragon into the top set of dots on BF?

[wraith gulch]

This is SUPER interesting.

[devout mango]

Yes, that's partially who I choose those dots and not the ones at the bottom right of the blurryface cover. But it also just didn't work well when I was trying to line up Joshs hand with the dots at the bottom right (attached)

Or this 🤷🏽‍♀️

[viral quail]

Oh boy so much has happened in this thread wow took me over an hour to catch up

I’m loving the goner cooking
I was looking at my vinyl before reading this all and started analysing the same things y’all talked about but somehow this is the first time I noticed the thick line through the o

[viral quail]

I used to listen to the sleepers version of goner so much after that video came out

[glass flare]

Have a look at this:

#1252689799597392014 message

[celest dust]

It's so good. But unfortunately my theory didn't hold haha!

[wraith gulch]

Oh shit

[waxen meteor]

what are those red lines on bf album? i think you have the answer to a question thats been bugging me for days

wait its in that thread... @indigo nacelle did you ever post an explanation?

i noticed those lines inside the circles when i was doing some editing of the album and was like, tf is this

[indigo nacelle]

yeah those lines in the photo above are the lines in the circles extended out

[devout mango]

I just noticed something interesting on YouTube. Some of the "official audio" videos for Blurryface songs (like Hometown and Goner) have the information about the current Clancy world tour schedule. But some don't. (I've noticed Message Man so far)

[small turtle]

please do that, I would love that so much lol

[indigo nacelle]

I laughed when i saw that he called his unborn and unnamed son voldemort in the liner notes of clancy 😆

[indigo nacelle]

sounds like maybe the music video version, with the accordion... where i found that gif with the lights

wow, i just went back and read through and i think this is the thread i need to be on! goner is a key and i know it!

on the official giphy page, you cant find goner gifs in the blurryface section. you have to scroll down through all of the gifs.......

and i'm obsessed with the gif because of those mailer letters said "how did you find http://....." so i'm like, well they found it through a gif, maybe we need to do that again

i'm going to make a thread about this, i've been on a good one and i feel like i have found so much, but i don't know where i'm going or what i'm looking for!

[glass flare]

So we haven’t a new gif similar to the old one. Aside the mvs we‘ve got the DR, the letter and the PR teaser. That must be the playground

And don’t forget the trial idea

[weak thorn]

Coordinates maybe? /hj

[indigo nacelle]

dont you think its interesting that the giphy page doesn't include goner gifs with all of the other blurryface gifs?

[indigo nacelle]

and i really dont think it has to be similar

[glass flare]

I meant a similar hint LIKE a gif/anim etc

[indigo nacelle]

ah i see

[glass flare]

Whoever asked us on the letter „where have you found…“ is pointing to the website

[indigo nacelle]

except the letters that say "how did you find..." and there are two elements to how they found it - a gif, and the merch store.

right but let me try to phrase it better... it's like, if someone asked "how do i find the other website?" and the reply was "well, how did you find the first one?"

i'm not sure if it was "how did you find" or "where did you find" but its the same idea

[lean mango]

The thing that confuses me about that question is, it was asked long before the album came out... so whatever is there to find, if there is something, has been there since the beginning of the era

[indigo nacelle]

long before which album? tbh i don't know the exact timing of these things...

[lean mango]

Clancy, it was when the letters were mailed out just before Overcompensate

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 19!

[indigo nacelle]

oh yeah i see, it was sent in february... i think they just had it all set up already, or it has been there for a long time and no one has found it

idk if that makes sense

[lean mango]

It's possible

But I'm trying to think what would make sense from that perspective

They couldn't really have anything hinting at post-cliffhanger lore stuff there unless it was vague

[indigo nacelle]

thats probably true, but maybe it's something not related directly to the cliffhanger?

[lean mango]

Yea, that's possible

Or it's something being updated like dmaorg

I just can't think why they'd ask that question if there's nothing to find

[indigo nacelle]

i mean, i don't know. i don't know what to look for, i just keep following my nose and it has taken me to goner, birds, and a tv station in columbus 🤪 🤷‍♀️ 😆

[glass flare]

To be exact bc I think it makes a difference: it was „how did you find“

So it wasn’t pointing to the website but maybe to the way the gif was decoded

But I may be wrong here

[devout mango]

@plush island something I just though of regarding the Josh drums discussion: paladin strait is the only mv on Clancy that doesn't feature josh on drums at all . Even other lore vids have josh as torchbearer and other scenes where josh is playing drums 🤔

[glass flare]

He hadn’t time or couldn’t find the drumset in all that turmoil

[small turtle]

wait siriusly seriously? 🤣

[solid whale]

Yall think this could mean something or jsut a coincidence?

[wraith gulch]

Yeah haha

[olive plume]

josh (and tyler) don’t play any instruments in the jumpsuit mv

[teal compass]

Josh also isn’t on drums in snap back, lavish, and backslide if we’re talking about clancy videos

[quartz sphinx]

RIP. I liked that theory.

[plush island]

GUYS I JUST NOTICED SOMETHING WEIRD

Look at the date stamp on the MP3 versions of Clancy that came with DR

Shouldn't it say May 24th?

[waxen meteor]

For sure-- embarrassing that I put like 6+ hours into it and it was just a dead end lol

[plush island]

Also they show up in my files all out of order

[waxen meteor]

Are you sure the may 22 is the digital remains version? I don't have it so I can't double check but someone else posted the above

[sly hazel]

I think there was actually 2 different versions sent out

either way I don't think it's unheard of for them to just prepare the files a couple days early

[teal compass]

yeah there were 2 versions of digital remains, the first link didnt have the live tracks

not sure if thats whats going on here but i do have both versions of dr

[quartz sphinx]

Yall were definitely cooking last night and I was fast asleep. Trying to get caught up!

[quartz sphinx]

Wow finally caught up. Something to consider on the Josh not drumming much theory is that it is typical in song structure that the drum groove changes and the drums are less prominent in the beginning of a bridge (or first repetition of a bridge) and build more toward the end. So that may just be about song structure and not a clue.

It’s a way the song builds into the bigger chorus at the end.

[plush island]

Yes that was in my files on my phone that's the only version of Clancy downloaded to my phone

[quartz sphinx]

On the topic of Goner, I was not here during the BF era but I rewatched all of the BF tour highlights videos last week and a clip from Goner plays at the end of every one of those videos.

[viral quail]

Oh wow blast from the last I remember noticing that when they came out 👀 (wasn’t a theorist back then)

[viral quail]

“How’d you get the location? Put together pieces?”

👀👀

https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1258930993126182942

With the DR that line made me think of the puzzle pieces but with your thread now it makes me think of the map and goner connection

[indigo nacelle]

“Can you build my house with pieces?”

[indigo nacelle]

Just had a thought... if Goner is gone from the BF vinyl, where did it go??

[weak thorn]

Fym it’s right here

Whoops, bad image

[indigo nacelle]

No the standard black vinyl in the merch store is missing goner

[weak thorn]

OH

[waxen meteor]

pearl did you see my update on that?

its been like that since 2017 : " )

at first couldnt find it on wayback machine, but add .html to the url

[wraith gulch]

Yeah I also saw a reddit post asking about that four years ago

[indigo nacelle]

Yeah I know but maybe it’s been a thing no one has figured out for that long

That was the weirdest sentence

I mean maybe it’s something no one ever found

[sleek pendant]

became a goner🤷

[quartz sphinx]

It absolutely could be. I am still suspicious that Goner is missing on the store but also was missing from Tyler’s list and he specifically called it out. It’s like he was pushing us to notice.

[indigo nacelle]

SAME. It’s weird to me more people aren’t thinking about this.

[small turtle]

who's talking to who? Either could work lol

[quartz sphinx]

I was referring to him maybe dropping a missing Goner clue in 2017 and then poking us by leaving Goner off his Clancy list.

I couldn’t delete the faulty version of the meme. I’m still new at this.

[devout mango]

No I agree I think there's something there for sure.

[quartz sphinx]

A lot of signs seem to be pointing to Goner but I don’t know what to do with that.

Also 14 was a theme for a minute and Goner is track 14.

[devout mango]

I'm wondering if the wording on this has changed? "the fifth and final chapter" . It's possible, since the Clancy tour dates are listed on this one that the description was also played with. (Not all of tøps yt videos have the Clancy world tour dates, only some)

[devout mango]

Makes me think of message man: "the comments below have become common motivation to promote your shows next episode so your brain knows to keep going even though hope is far from this moment"

[vital arrow]

Boop… so the hosts are Lisden and Sacarver in SAI livestream eh? Lisden is questioning Sacarver (“why, why do I succumb…”?) Sorry if it’s been noticed before…

I didn’t realize it was Paul Meany playing piano in this either

[indigo nacelle]

Ive been wondering… maybe they set up this Goner path a long time ago, and nobody found it, and maybe it led to a url, and maybe they’ve updated it to tie in to the new era, even though it was set up years ago? Does that make sense? I really think we are looking for a new url

[quartz sphinx]

Or it could be a username and password we’re looking for, for this http://dmaorg.info/2742398/

[indigo nacelle]

Yes totally possible as well

I just don’t know how we will know when we find something, like will it be super obvious?

I’m too obsessed what have you guys done to me 😩

[vale canyon]

Maybe clues in those DR number images?

Could be 27 42 39 8, 2 74 23 98, 27 4 23 98, and so on haha

When I get home I'll look into em

[devout mango]

Also sacarver calls Josh a moron

[weak thorn]

GLaDOS Sacarver arc???

[vital arrow]

And Josh isn’t there with Tyler (during interview on the couch)…. I’m am 100% calling Sacarver and Josh are the same, work together, etc. especially since his color is yellow

Also, the birds behind trash’s scales on Ride… they remind me of the Goner birds

[devout mango]

Question: #1252689799597392014 message

[dull void]

This feels so possible

[small turtle]

Is there still a way to watch the Scaled and Icy livestream? There's so much talk about it but I've not been able to find it--except in random edited scraps, which even I can tell have large missing bits

[mellow stratus]

i just have a Google drive file someone dropped in here a while back

someone will drop one if you ask

[small turtle]

that would be cool

thanks for letting me know!

So, does anyone have a link to that?

Because it would be amazing to see it : )

[tough timber]

we had a conversation about this starting here (and going to about 11:25am the same day) #1252689799597392014 message but didn't really figure anything out

if anyone gets any ideas from the previous conversation please share lol

[tough timber]

i found one on reddit a few weeks ago but the link doesn't work any more 🥲

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[old leaf]

WOW LEVEL UP!

I want a level up:(

[teal compass]

The internet archive link I normally send got taken down but this google drive from @/tjbutlag contains all the lore videos+the stream, if you go to 16:06 that’s where the stream starts

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16eHNGIxshD7Tk5q_gIVQXpZ4snPYbb3J/view

[quartz sphinx]

Back to goner missing in the store description for the black vinyl. I went all the way back in the wayback machine to 2015 and that listing was the exact same except there was a link to a red & black vinyl. Goner was missing from the start.

Related, I got to thinking about “how did you find dmaorg.info” and went down a bit of a rabbit hole. So the first person to find it was a Reddit user u/jakedello. He has a video about how he found it. It wasn’t anything new really, just a timeline of what happened. Looked back to his first post about it on reddit. Realized why someone was saying earlier the missing violation code part of the URL looked like the blurryface cover with the lower right circle missing. I finally saw what they meant, like it’s 3 lines but if you squint your eyes (and your eyelashes make it look a little not right) you could kinda see it’s the shape of the BF dots, with goner missing. Because the dot for goner is after the underscore.

Anyway maybe goner missing is a very very old missed clue that Tyler is bringing back for some reason.

Sorry to ramble.

[devout mango]

Anyone else think the sai Livestream seems like it was just inside Tyler's head? At the beginning, he zones out on the couch, starts singing choker. At the end he ends in the couch singing choker. The hosts are still sitting in the same spot

[lean mango]

I wouldn't be surprised

[wraith gulch]

That is suuuuuper interesting

[teal compass]

Back when the stream first happened most people assumed it was all in Tyler’s head, but the letters that later came out with the outside do tell us that it was a real scripted tv show put on by the bishops and they planned all the songs and set pieces. It’s still not entirely 100% clear what the purpose of the bishops using their own imagery of it being inside clancys head is but irl the sai branding featured a lot of imagery of seeing inside of Tyler’s head and Tyler escaping into his mind and seeing how his psyche was affected by isolation so it makes sense for the in universe sai branding to also revolve around getting a peek into clancys mind and him escaping into his mind in some way

[devout mango]

@teal compass #1252689799597392014 message this convo has kinda b lined into talking about sai Livestream if you have any insights 🙏🏽

[teal compass]

It’s important to remember that canonically all the sai branding existed in universe so the band presenting parts of sai as happening in clancys mind is also the bishops depicting things being all in clancys mind, not sure if they’re trying to go 100% “banditos aren’t real” to the citizens or are just generally presenting clancys mind as being favorable towards vialism as basic propaganda but there’s something going on there with the bishops depicting Clancy using escapism for some purpose

[teal compass]

I’ll check it out!

[devout mango]

And interestingly enough they include that disclaimer "this doesn't reflect the views of the performer, these are the views of dema" (something like that)

[tame tendon]

Starting to think June 25th and 28th wasn’t relevant

[small turtle]

thank you!!

[quartz sphinx]

I think so. They also are less decomposed at the end IIRC.

[vital arrow]

I just noticed today, Tyler’s Instagram list is missing Goner as well.

[proven harbor]

And not today

[quartz sphinx]

Yeah that was kind of what kicked off the discussion about goner. He left off both goner and not today but he specifically called out goner in the comments right after. Then someone brought up the missing song on the store description for the vinyl.

[glass flare]

… AND Goner is song nr. 14 AND it’s mentioning Blurryface AND it’s connected with birds AND its mv was shot on Clancy way

[quartz sphinx]

YES! All signs point to goner. But no idea why.

[devout mango]

I'm starting to think torchbearer isn't real or something... Just Clancy's hope personified. That's why he shows up in the SAI livestream, that's why sacarver says "where are you"about Josh (sai Livestream). That's why he's depicted as sometimes being there and sometimes not (navigating mv)(even though I know the "real" torchbearer supposedly never left trench or whatever). And it explains to me why he is so familiar with torchbearer "taking my only friend I know he leaves a lot his name is hope" semi automatic.

[vital arrow]

I’m leaning that way too, I know we mentioned the weird naming of the shirt “strangler” but I was looking today with my daughter and noticed this says “stand-ins” almost like this isn’t the real them in a sense?

[lean mango]

As far as I know Bandito Torchbearer is confirmed to be real/corporeal

[devout mango]

By whom?

[lean mango]

Tyler in the Clancy video livestream

[devout mango]

Ok that does not make it true imo (I mentioned that anyways)

Especially if we are to assume Tyler knows what Clancy knows

[lean mango]

I think we can take what out of character Tyler says when he's talking seriously about the lore as fact

Otherwise there would be no way for anything to be confirmed outside of videos/letters/other direct lore stuff

[tough timber]

haven't really been on here in the last day and a half has anything interesting been happening?

[devout mango]

I don't think the real torchbearer really needed clearing up unless that was a joke or a clue.. it was clear through the videos

[olive plume]

the torchbearer we saw in the videos was “real” to clancy because clancy thought he was physically there until it was revealed in Navigating that what clancy was seeing was a projection—and tyler just gave a further explanation of that in the livestream

many people had theories surrounding the different iterations of the torchbearer even before tyler confirmed there were different ones (also you saying how you believe the torchbearer himself isn’t real in your above message kinda contradicts when you say “it’s clear [he was real] through the videos.” if you believe that, then why claim he hasn’t been real at all in the first place?) according to tyler, there were three torchbearers present: the bandito torchbearer (the real one), and then the ones in voldsøy and dema/SAI were the projections

i don’t think him confirming that is a joke or a clue. it’s just him tidying everything up so we are, again, all on the same page (like with the I Am Clancy video). not everything tyler says needs to be taken as a riddle or a puzzle

[devout mango]

No you misunderstood, I'm not contradicting myself. I said that it was obvious which torchbearer was "real", so if he "clarified" in the Clancy premier Livestream then it may have been a lie/clue

[devout mango]

I am Clancy vid was definitely not just Tyler saying facts 🤦🏽‍♀️

[devout mango]

Clearly Josh is a real person so that's just interesting that you said it shouldn't be clear to me that he's there? I was making an observation and a hypothesis about why he would clarify

[lean mango]

Because if he's confirming that at least one Torchbearer is not real, it could lead to confusion about it all of them are not

[devout mango]

Did we really need confirmation that the torchbearer in navigating isn't real though? That's my question. Cause the vid shows he's not there

[plush island]

Hey guys! So I'm finally giving my Clancy cassette a listen and I noticed the album cover extends beyond what we have for everything else

[plush island]

Alright guys if anybody can figure this out it's you guys. So I haven't used cassette tapes in a while so I don't know if this is normal but... there isn't anything more at the end of Clancy cassette BUT the tape keeps playing for an extra 35 seconds after Nico says Hello Clancy, and I swear I hear a swoosh sound followed by some weird clicks in the background right before the tape stops. Four clicks to be exact. Could potentially be morse code. I replayed it twice and heard the same thing twice so it's not the tape player.

Also tyler did tell us to "sit with the audio of Paladin Strait for a while"

[indigo nacelle]

Hmmm not saying it's nothing but it is normal for a cassette to have extra silence at the end of both sides because the two sides will not match up time wise. Did you listen to side A all the way to the end? So cool they released a cassette.

[plush island]

Yes I did and it stopped quicker than side B did. Also the extra time is 35 seconds. The clicks happen at 31 seconds. Vessels running time is 47:49 - Clancy's running time is 47:18. If you subtract 18 from 49 you're left with 31 which is an odd coincidence (if it is a coincidence)

[indigo nacelle]

I think youre hearing the end of the actual tape...theres a piece of clear film at the end and youll hear when it switches to that clear part, and then total silence for a few seconds bc the clear tape has no sound. does that make sense?

[plush island]

It does make sense. I guess I was just hoping I found something lol 😅

[olive plume]

it was though. that video was a summary of everything that’s happened so far. literally The Definition of facts

[devout mango]

He talks as Clancy. The facts are skewed based on what Clancy believes. It's a lore vid.

[vital arrow]

Speaking like they know Clancy and TB personally and like we’re not on a theories page lol… sheesh, none of us know 100% except the creators. Nothing is really facts, yet.

[sly hazel]

Well the band themselves have actively said the I Am Clancy video is an introduction for people to the lore because it's going to be really important to this era

They want more fans involved in the lore in ways they haven't had before, that video aims to achieve that so it being skewed factually wouldn't really make sense

[olive plume]

exactly. there’s no reason for them to lie or be deceitful in a summary video if they want everybody on the same page

not trying to insinuate i know clancy or torchbearer or even tyler personally lmao okay. just saying that I Am Clancy has the same function of a television show’s season recap before they jump into the next installment. what is happening here lol

[tough timber]

i agree that it doesn't make sense to lie in a lore video. i think what they're trying to say is that clancy the character wouldn't necessarily have the same knowledge as tyler? since clancy exists in a world tyler created he has more limited knowledge

[devout mango]

So Tyler is for sure the only citizen who can seize using antlers? Then why show the people in the oc vid? (Not being rude just trying to tie up loose ends in the thought process that I am Clancy is not lore). Also what's the significance of the whole thing being typed in a letter of there's no hints?

And if everything Tyler says is true in Tyler form, then why say the ps vid is coming out early June?

Why would he even be Clancy in the video if it were just a candid explanation?

[signal spruce]

As sure as we can be based on the I am Clancy video and the fact that even in the final battle no other citizens were seizing- I think the OC video was more him teaching them about his plan and that they don’t have to go along with vialism than teaching them to seize

[devout mango]

Also I think the I am Clancy vid would be a good start even if there are clues/it's not entirely accurate because we can still all start on the same page that way (basically sums up what we know to be true)

"know" rather

[olive plume]

it is accurate though. there is no reason for them to lie about something like this. this is (presumedly) the final lore album so now’s the time to set the record straight and make sure everybody understands the basics of what’s going on. they would not lie in a video like this 😭 not everything is as convoluted as some of y’all make it out to be

[signal spruce]

If you think there’s more to uncover in the I am Clancy video, you should definitely make a thread about your theories! I think most of us just see it as a summary of what we’ve gotten so far rather than new info but would be open if you found stuff

[tough timber]

there could be clues we've not found in "I Am Clancy" for sure but I do think it was truly meant as a way to summarize the main plot so new fans/newbies to the lore have a starting place for understanding clancy and further theorizing like we're all doing lol

as far as ps video goes I'm sort of convinced that "drag path" and potentially "pardon my delay" in navigating are hints related to the album itself being delayed and the ps video being delayed. granted we don't know that ps was delayed but it seems like it could have been since they did initially say "early june"

and i agree that tyclancy is teaching his plan to the rebels in dema rather than teaching them to seize

[olive plume]

anything left out in the video (like the bishops’ names) are not needed to understand the basic plot of what’s going on. all the extra stuff is just things fans Can look into if needed, but it isn’t necessary (according to the band) to understand what’s going on here

[sly hazel]

^

Mark said it was actively a way into the lore to understand what is happening

and a way of letting people know without them having to do a deep dive

It's why it basically covers only the main points from the videos without going into details on events that don't actually matter to the whole thing

Same way that the whole playlist they have on YT is just a visual journey and you can understand the story directly from those without ever learning anything about dmaorg or really who Clancy is or how dema works etc

[cloud lynx]

https://fxtwitter.com/twentyonepilots/status/1810330969737429054

hmmmmmmmm

[plush island]

I was just gonna share this.... the way the people in The video are talking is sus...

[cloud lynx]

this would make a lot of sense if the tour is gonna be a retrospective/a flashback of the band's history

[plush island]

Like what they're saying. Also, Bandito is playing in the background. Do we think that could mean something?

[cloud lynx]

not to be disrespectful or just turning down your idea, but i think this is a reach

[cloud lynx]

although, yeah, why that song in particular?

[onyx dust]

what is suspicious about it?

[vital arrow]

I felt like the staff who were working FPE in Columbus were in the bands inner circle, imo of course… it was super cool to go to… I wish I could’ve stayed in there longer looking at everything. Agree that using Bandito is interesting 🧐

[lean mango]

Guys

Bandito is track 11 on Trench

[compact arrow]

Yes

Whatchu getting at homie @lean mango

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-suit-meme-man-wearing-suit-meme-suit-slideshow-sparkles-and-champagne-gif-26378137

[lean mango]

More and more 11 hints recently

[wraith gulch]

Oh shit great catch

[lean mango]

Too many to write off by now imo, in fact, I want to make an 11 thread

[wraith gulch]

Do it

[compact arrow]

If it seems like a stretch then I’ll support it

This entire thread has just been a bit of coping 😃

[weak thorn]

maybe... maybe they want you to explore the FPE to the fullest.

there may be clues

[onyx dust]

i think they just used bandito because in the trench era a lot of fans dressed up as banditos, the fans are the banditos

[granite seal]

one of my favourite things about this clique is the ability to find connections with basically and given number

[indigo nacelle]

How many times did we see the goner skeleton shirt in this, at least twice.

[small turtle]

So I watched the Scaled and Icy livestream yesterday (thanks to those who provided links!) and I'm slightly confused about something...there's been a lot of discussion in here about Josh and all the weirdnesses surrounding him and how he interacts with the world. I saw someone point out a few days ago that Josh must be real in the world because at the beginning of the livestream the show hosts call out his name. It's a bit strange, though, isn't it?--I thought he existed as Torchbearer in the world, not Josh. But they call Tyler and TOP itself by name too, which I really didn't expect going in. What's up with that? Though I suppose having Clancy literally point to Josh in the Overcompensate video when he says 'come up with Josh Dun' also points to the lines between them and their characters not always being clearcut...a blurry line, if you will...

To be clear, I'm definitely on the side of 'Torchbearer/Josh is real' even if he's just in Clancy's head, if that makes sense, but the use of their real names within the world makes it even more confusing.

On a different note--double-album thoughts--there's something I don't get. If we're supposed to be finding something, and we're causing a delay, why don't they give us another hint? I mean, yeah, there have obviously been things hidden in Tyler's song list posts, so I'm not dismissing that...but...there's obviously something up, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced we don't know WHAT. Not ready to dismiss the double album theory--far from it--but I wonder if there's something else we're supposed to find right now, and then the actual double album releases next year? I admit I've been dismissive of the June 2025 interpretation of 6/25 so far because I agree it seems quite far out to promote another album. But if there was something ELSE coming in between now and then that we're supposed to find, I might believe it. I just don't know what that could be.

Maybe we're meant to find one song/music video or link or SOMETHING that clears up what's going on?

I guess I'm not really saying anything new

[sly hazel]

I genuinely think the 6/25 hints were all just coincidence on our part and the real hint is just 25

and I think it means 2025

[small turtle]

I think there are too many 6s for it to be a coincidence--but that doesn't rule out 2025, of course

Even if it's not 'June 2025' it could be the 6th album, 25 songs

But I'm about cry with frustration because we've been over and over and over these hints 😭

[lean mango]

Eh, I still don't think that makes any sense

and I don't believe I'm in denial either, I've looked at this from a lot of angles and a lot of the way they handled it just doesn't line up for 25 to be 2025

I'm hoping, but not banking on (yet) 7/11

the reason being, that's a pretty reasonable delay if they had to delay a similar amount to Paladin from early to late June

[small turtle]

I want you to be right but have we seen any 7s?

[lean mango]

and they've cranked the 11 hints up recently

not that I know of, which is why I'm not really sold on it

[tough timber]

i thought the livestream really blurred the line between reality and the dema-verse (idk if there's another name for the fictional parts lol) since it originally happened during covid lockdown? I'm leaning towards the idea that we probably aren't getting anything else between now and kicking off the tour. something else in 2025 seems most likely at this point

though I feel like I've seen somebody talking about august 3 idk where that came from

[tough timber]

true there have been lots of 11s

[lean mango]

I still think if a double album is real, 11 is the number of tracks

[small turtle]

me too

[sly hazel]

I agree

I just think at this point there's no real way they can push a full double album marketing wise before tour

it's just too late

[lean mango]

Depends on how they plan to do the marketing

they definitely can't do a typical rollout

but if the intent is a shadow drop or short notice, which is far more common for the 2nd half of a double album than the 1st half or a traditional album, it could def still work

[tough timber]

realistically yeah but also that phrasing of "being too late" makes me think of drag path again 🤪

[sly hazel]

I just think with the way they would want to handle it
I think they'd want to do a whole secondary rollout as the actual ending

and I think it makes sense for that to come after the first leg of the tour at this point

[lean mango]

Well, I'm still of the belief that if there's a second album, the true end in video form will still come much later

might even be ambiguous as to how it ends in the lore, without being a cliffhanger in the way Paladin was

[sly hazel]

I agree the ending wont come til later

I just think we get some hints and stuff over the course of the tour

and then they give us a secondary rollout after first leg

with a second leg being the true send off

[lean mango]

While I could see it dropping after the first leg, my big doubt there is they almost never drop new music during tour, even between legs, because it means some dates get to hear the new music live and some don't, and they don't know that when they're buying tickets

I think if they're going to wait until tour, it has to be after May 2025

[sly hazel]

Oh yeah I think it'll be a full rollout after the ending of the tour

I think we get hints to stuff across the tour but no actual music

[lean mango]

But honestly, even if the plan is a rollout after this tour, I'm still not convinced that was the intent behind 25, because it still doesn't really make sense

Unless nothing else comes up that satisfies 25

[sly hazel]

the only other explanation is that everything got crazily delayed and threw everything off in terms of release dates and whatever else

[lean mango]

Or the 25 was never intended to be a timing hint

[sly hazel]

which I guess is possible and would explain why everything is so silent rn

[lean mango]

But to be honest, the more this era goes on the more I'm convinced they've just... messed everything up terribly and continue to do so. I really don't want to believe that but the longer it goes with nothing starting to make more sense, the more it begins to be the only viable explanation

at which point, I'd honestly believe anything

[sly hazel]

Yeah I do think that something went terribly wrong somewhere along the line

and that's caused a huge knock on effect with the rollout

everything about this rollout is not what I expect from them at all

[wraith gulch]

Yeah agreed with that sentiment. Still holding out hope though.

[glass flare]

Adding a pragmatic view to the mentioning of Josh:
in the end it’s a band and only a minority of their audience is knowing or involved in the lore. So it makes totally sense that they sometimes appear as real life musicians. Like Josh playing drums at the coast makes no sense regarding the lore lol

[tame trout]

I second this notion and a part of me feels like they told us in next semester. “Start fresh with a new year”

[tame trout]

oh it didn’t reply to the person I was responding to okay sick

[split island]

I think it would be weird for them to announce that everything will go wrong through song lyrics, but as said by facecat, at this point I'd believe anything lol

[small turtle]

Yeah, I definitely thought of that--also introducing Tyler as Tyler and noting that they're who make up 21 Pilots. Still, it was sort of fourth-wall breaking.

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 3!

[slate jewel]

hi double album truthers how are we feeling

and also how long between albums does it have to be to count as a double album

[glass flare]

There are so many inconsistencies I don’t reduce to our lack of knowledge that I sometimes see Tyler thinking: „Damn, they noticed the error we made. Let’s throw in another red herring to confuse them a while, until we know how to get out of this mess!“

[slate jewel]

I don't think it's like that but I'm biased lol

I think we're just genuinely missing something huge

[lean mango]

I don't think we're missing anything, I think there is something huge planned and it's been delayed along with everything else, but they haven't known how to handle the delays

[tame tendon]

I think josh has been in the background bc this is tylers story and world he made. Hes raking the reigns on it all. Which makes me think that we may get a new storyline down the road fronted by josh

Not on it all but you get it

[empty jasper]

When Tyler posted the setlist with "Goner" missing, why did he also leave out "Not Today" then? He wouldn't accidentally leave one off and purposely leave the other off.

[tough timber]

see this is why i like the idea of clancy part 2 being called torchbearer bc all the lore stuff we've gotten has been tyclancy's side of things and mostly about dema

i think it'd be cool to get more storyline of who the banditos are and how they ended up out in the woods of trench bc that's never really been explained at all as far as I know

not sure there's any evidence to back up the idea of a torchbearer album but if the double album is real i'm fond of that idea

[indigo nacelle]

From not today “I don't know why I just feel I'm better off
Stayin' in the same room I was born in” and Goner mv is filmed on Clancy way where twenty one pilots was “born”, I’m sure he is sending us there.

[quartz sphinx]

Not Today may have been intentional (IDK) but Tyler himself called out that he left goner off the list. Others chimed in to say he left off not today. The fact that he called himself out made me think it’s pointing us that way.

[indigo nacelle]

I thought we knew that the banditos are escaped Dema citizens? I think josh also used to live in dema and escaped and now he and Clancy are reuniting and maybe they are even brothers.

[indigo nacelle]

Maybe a call and response thing, like hey are you guys paying attention here?

[quartz sphinx]

True. He gave us one answer and we needed to find the other.

[tough timber]

it's possible i missed that bc i wasn't really involved in theorizing or anything prior to this album but i've never heard anything about torchbearer or the banditos origin 🤷‍♀️

i guess if they are escaped citizens they could still go deeper on torchbearer's abilities or even his perspective of the story we have so far (like what he and the banditos are doing while clancy is inside dema during trench/sai or pick up where paladin strait stops)

idk i have a lot of ideas and no proof to back any of them up lol

[quartz sphinx]

I thought he just said something like “we’d heard rumors that there were people out there” without saying where they came from. Metaphor wise it makes sense that some people never lived in dema.

[indigo nacelle]

Oh I’m in the same boat as you in terms of being new lol… I’m just remembering a music video that flashes back to two banditos as kids and they were in Dema…

[teal compass]

we dont know anythign about josh/torchberaer really but yeah its shown that other banditos are escapees from dema

the fpe badge applies to all of them

the torchbearers backstory specifically is a complete mystery

[indigo nacelle]

ahh yes i see. just from the way he and clancy look at each other, it feels like they've known each other forever

[tough timber]

i had forgotten about the 2 kids from NATN turning back up in the outside so you're right about that part

but yeah still curious about torchbearer and guiding and i don't know why they'd tell us about that and not elaborate

also it seems weird that they'd only be worried about bringing clancy back over and over again if all these other banditos/escapees are also out there why do the bishops not care about them? the more i try to figure out what is happening the more questions i have lol

[graceful hill]

Clancy is the exception to being seized while he's alive

[viral quail]

Compiled as much of the trial theory is I could into this thread

https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1260255376834691143

I know we’ve been discussing it heaps here seeing as it might lead to a second album

[gusty hare]

I was just watching the music video for Next Semester and I remembered someone said every time Tyler runs off camera represents an album and the last time he runs off camera he’s wearing the Clancy mask but I noticed the last time we see him in the street he’s not running anymore and if you count the number of times he runs off camera it’s a total of 6 but the 7th time he’s not running and he walks off stage and is standing with the banditos in the street maybe it’s a metaphor for “the show” being a flash back for all the albums and after the show we get the final battle where Tyler or Clancy finally stops running

[graceful hill]

He says done running in oc

Do with this information what you will

[waxen meteor]

my interpretation of running and mentions of it within most of tyler's last few albums is about escapism. trench is about escaping, or running away, from your problems. in clancy, he's done running-- after running 300 tracks (trench, and generally continuing the cycle), he's 'too old to run away', etal

[solid whale]

Was looking at memes in Instagram and this hit me. With 1 more album it'd be 9 albums from the bois

[quartz sphinx]

I don’t really see trench (the place) as escaping from your problems. I feel like trench represents being healthy mentally. He escapes from his depression/demons to a healthy place but gets dragged back in. It does make sense what you’re saying about “done running,” but I see it like … I think he said something like this about his own mental health in an interview… that he used to think when will I be free of this, when will everything be all better and I’ll be happy and won’t struggle anymore… and instead he’s realized that life includes the dark times, for everyone (even for people who don’t struggle with depression or other mental health struggles), so he’s going to embrace that as being a natural part of life. I don’t necessarily think he’s just been running from his problems. But obviously he has sometimes with the addiction talk coming in. But I think the trench map looks like a brain for a reason. Trench isn’t bad and it’s not bad to spend time there.

[compact arrow]

That doesn’t add up. No Phun intended was a solo project and has no connection to the band besides recycled lyrics.

[solid whale]

Still from "the Bois" yk not from the band but still from them yk

[lean mango]

Some solid points, but IMO that's not really how Tyler talked about it, when referring to it in interviews he always called it the in-between place. Some place that isn't where he was before and needed to escape, but not a good place to end up long-term either. It's the place of wandering and uncertainty until he finally figures out where he's going

which I forgot to mention, I think that's a huge thing to consider with regards to a potential double album

He's said Dema isn't the place he's supposed to be, and Trench isn't either, but he hasn't figured out where he's going yet

Clancy hasn't revealed that place either

[small turtle]

I didn't know he'd said any of that. I should develop the theory I have about what's going to happen at the end. I've been thinking for awhile about the fact that Trench doesn't have the feeling of a final destination--and its name makes it sounds like a war zone, which in a sense it is--and at least on the maps I've seen, we can't see what's at the very top of the continent.

I think they're going to keep heading 'true east'--wherever that may lead...

[quartz sphinx]

Good point! Forgot about the whole between two places thing.

[tough timber]

ohhhh that would make a lot of sense bc of how they've talked about clanch being the end of the story when it doesn't really seem like an ending at all. maybe ending the dema/trench chapter before moving on to whatever comes next (but also we're still very much in trench/dema where they ended with ps)

[long rose]

Btw I've been thinking that the purple flowers in Paladin Strait may represent the beginning of change and that the second part of Clancy, the double album, could lead more to that change/new beginnings. Making the theory about the next color being purple stronger.

[small turtle]

I still think there's something to a theory I saw awhile back--purple of course is halfway between blue and red, which could easily represent a 'truce' between the two. But also there's the song called 'Midwest Indigo.' There is a plant called False Indigo which has not blue but purple flowers. And I've been thinking ever since around the time of the PS video's release that this could refer to a kind of 'false defeat' or even 'false truce'? You could see the moment before the very end of the PS video, when Clancy drops the antlers and looks like he's going to be smeared as a 'false defeat.' Or if his plan was to get captured all along, that also could be a false defeat. Or it could refer to something else we don't know about yet.

[indigo nacelle]

I noticed this too and the scientific name for false indigo is Baptisia australis, I don't know why but that's curious to me, like... baptism? hmm.

[small turtle]

oooh this is interesting--it would fit really well, actually. Part of what baptism is meant to represent is symbolically dying and being born again...and one of the first things a friend of mine said to me after listening to Clancy for the first time was the amount of water imagery in this album (swimming with the risk of drowning, 'I feel the pull, water's over my head', etc.) which would fit with baptism. Plus, what's possibly history's most famous 'false defeat', which baptism is linked to? The death and resurrection of Christ.

Boom. It all fits so well.

(And remember all the speculation about the death and return of Torchbearer--or Clancy? I still think it could happen.) I also think we can more or less assume they were thinking about false indigo when they named that song because the flower's most prevalent guess where? The American MIDWEST. This makes it 'Midwest indigo' on a very literal level.

Now I'm trying to come up with a potential signifcance for 'south.' I guess Dema is in the south...I'd have to work on that one.

actually wait

Voldsoy's more south I guess (in Paladin Strait he describes swimming from Voldsoy...water...south...IDK, the only thing is, we know he didn't swim from there, at least not all the way, because there was a boat...but I guess that song is all sort of hypothetical anyway--I WOULD swim the Paladin Strait)

which could be significant in itself

[tough timber]

i like your thought process here! would it be south on our compass or south on the trench compass? bc if east = north then south = east

[celest dust]

Okay yeah so I'm back on the fake vinyl. I checked the source code of the website, and it shows the vinyl with the following details:

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Product",
  "name": "Blurryface (Black) Vinyl",
  "url": "https://store.twentyonepilots.com/products/blurryface-black-vinyl",
  "description": "The Blurryface vinyl here is the standard black vinyl version of the album.\nTracklist:\n1. Heavydirtysoul\n2. Stressed Out\n3. Ride\n4. Fairly Local\n5. Tear In My Heart\n6. Lane Boy\n7. The Judge\n8. Doubt\n9. Polarize\n10. We Don’t Believe What’s On TV\n11. Message Man\n12. Hometown\n13. Not Today",
  "sku": "075678669637",
  "brand": {
    "@type": "Thing",
    "name": "Twenty One Pilots"
  },
  "offers": [
    {
      "@type": "Offer",
      "sku": "075678669637",
      "availability": "http://schema.org/OutOfStock",
      "price": 24.99,
      "priceCurrency": "USD",
      "url": "https://store.twentyonepilots.com/products/blurryface-black-vinyl?variant=47892137476415"
    }
  ]
}

The SKU (barcode number) is 075678669637, which if you Google corresponds to a DOUBLE vinyl with Goner included. Yet, it is listed as a single. It still doesn't make sense to me.

But if you look at the url listed, there's a ?variant= added with the value of 47892137476415. Does that number mean anything to anyone? The link itself just shows the 'standard black' vinyl

[small turtle]

not sure. I got tripped up mentally for a second because I was thinking in terms of the way people in the northern hemisphere look at real maps (though actually, I'm not sure how people look at them in the southern hemisphere...is north or south 'on top'?). I think you could find significance in either 'our' south or 'their' south.

It is a bit odd--I wonder if the Trench map is done that way to emphasize east being 'upward' ('east is up'!) -- as in being a progression to something positive

[glass flare]

That’s simply shopify‘s product variant ID

[celest dust]

Aaaaah okay, thanks @glass flare!

[tough timber]

i can't remember where i saw it but i saw someone talking about east is up in reference to the sun rising in the east which kinda made sense to me since daytime and sunlight are in a lot of lyrics as like hopeful counterparts to night and darkness

[glass flare]

East has a significant role in Christian/Jewish religion („sun will rise…“) It was so important that old maps were drawn with east up.

See also the „Golden Gate“ in Jerusalem

[small turtle]

@tough timber yeah I've thought about that--which fits with their discography as a whole as well ('the sun will rise and we will try again...')

[small turtle]

I knew about east being significant in the Judeo-Christian tradition--did NOT know about old maps being drawn with east up. That's crazy and probably not an accident. Wow.

[split island]

Dema's an old city after all

[small turtle]

but there's just no proof

I think I know what you're getting at, though

But Dema's in the west...in a lot of traditions, west is associated with death...

[glass flare]

Where the sun/light is going down

[tough timber]

wait a minute look at this

maybe a stretch but t-o = twenty-one

and dema is a circular city

[small turtle]

also lines in a circle, like their new logo!

the thicker lines resemble the recent version

From what I can tell, earlier versions of the logo never had the lines touching the sides, did they?

like, this

vs

Sometimes I imagine Tyler, Josh and Mark watching our speculations and going 'Wow, they're onto us finally!' Other times: 'Why didn't we think of that? That works really well.' And yet other times: 'They're insane, what have we done.'

[tough timber]

here is an article about map orientation if anybody wants more info like i did bc i hadnt really considered real-world east up maps til now https://www.geospatialworld.net/blogs/why-maps-point-north-on-top/

[split island]

Literally all I can see anymore is a proctologist

the logo is ruined forever

[indigo nacelle]

Do we know if this version of the vinyl ever actually existed? When it first showed up could people order it, or was it always out of stock? Does anyone have the physical product?

Also I just noticed - without goner or not today the last track is hometown, I wonder if that’s totally pointing us to his hometown like everything else 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐

[teal compass]

You could order it at first then it sold out

It’s just the regular blurryface vinyl listing people found listings without goner going all the way back to 2017

No single lp vinyls of blurryface exist

2lp black, 2lp black and white, 2lp black and red, 2lp red, 2lp silver, 3lp live and the double sided ep are all the blurryface era ones iirc

So it’s most likely a tøp store error considering both the timeline and the fact that this vinyl has never physically appeared anywhere

[tough timber]

I'm not 100% convinced this is important but it's definitely an interesting coincidence and I just noticed the book mentioned Etymologiae was published circa 625 if so that's another potential thing pointing to 6/2025 if this does mean anything

[small turtle]

wwwhhhhyyyy does this keep happening

6/25 again

[lean mango]

Does seem like a coincidende but that's interesting and funny

[small turtle]

@tough timber Wait now I can't find the reference to Etymolgiae; where was that?

@tough timber nevermind, found it

[small turtle]

I know this is how conspiracy theories work, but honestly, there is so much about the T&O map that lines up with other things, at this point I wouldn't be surprised it was intentional...

I say that about a lot of this, I know

All I'll say is that this thread has taught me as much about plants, philosophy, color theory, old maps and vinyl LPs as it has taught me about TOP lore

[tough timber]

lol might continue down this rabbit hole later

isidore is pretty close to Reisdro 👀

[small turtle]

That's almost an anagram.

[signal spruce]

Was not prepared for the first line of this article to read “So even a pandemic couldn’t stop Santa Claus from coming to town.” 😂😂

That’s a fascinating read though- it seems like a possible connection that some of the evidence we have for early maps being East-oriented comes from accounts and language in the Old Testament and Tyler’s faith influences so much of his writing

[tame trout]

late to the party but I did contact the merch store about the single LP and they gave me a generic “we don’t know when it will be back in stock” message. I don’t think the people running their customer service are really in the know though.

[small turtle]

exactly

[small turtle]

Even I am willing to admit this is probably a coincidence, but there are 11 videos in the 21 Pilots: The Story playlist

[lean mango]

tomorrow, trust

[fleet pier]

Does his hair look purple-ish here or am I delusional?

[slate jewel]

no yeah it kinda does

[small turtle]

I wonder...I've seen people say it would be make the most sense for them to release something more on Friday at midnight because the way charts work. But today's a Thursday. So for me, that would be an argument against it happening today. However, I wonder if they'll tease it? Leading into midnight maybe? A tweet in the affteroon? (Imagine it's 11:58 PM and Josh Tweets 'What's your ETA?' and at midnight as the album drops Tyler replies, 'Chill out, man, we're right on time.')

[viral quail]

It does it’s definitely not red and ngl looks to me like he has recoloured it rather than it being washed out or faded red

THE PURPLE THEORY yall are onto something with that

[small turtle]

definitely not delusional

is that a recent photo?

[viral quail]

Yeah it’s from 2 days ago

When he got his new Indian motorbike (don’t get me started on this coz holy shit this man somehow got to a new level of sexy)

[warm kettle]

Ikr he’s always been hot but that documentary is like another level of hot

[tame tendon]

Documentary? I need to see this

[warm kettle]

Just my wording I mean the video about his motorcycle thing

[tame tendon]

Ohhhh

[lean mango]

11 minutes

Maybe, idk

I just feel like July 11th at 11:11 is the perfect time

[long rose]

Tbf

[lean mango]

Damn, true

Still might be something today but if nothing happens in the next hour I'll be doubtful

More than I already am, I should say

[real field]

I haven't been keeping up with anything in while can someone give me a tldr if there's still a chance for double or more music at all or if this is it.

[lean mango]

There's a very strong chance for more music, there's presumably a teaser for more at the end of the Paladin MV and pitched down in the Paladin MV teaser

However, we have no idea when or what form it will take

could be anything from a single song to a double album, some time between this month and next year

[real field]

Thank you

[tough timber]

i just had a thought and it's either way too simple or this is what they meant by right in front of your eyes

next semester came out towards the end of march which is when a large majority of US schools have spring break and the album dropped at the end of may when the academic calendar ends in most parts of the country

most US schools resume in august or september for the fall semester and tour starts 8/15

i doubt there's really time to roll out a part 2 of the album between now and tour (not that it's impossible just doesn't feel probable) but this is the first time i've considered how any additional songs/deluxe edition/second album might actually line up with an academic calendar

I'm in the southeast and I know some states further north both start and and stop school a little later than here but I don't think it'd make a huge difference... probably like a few weeks at the most

[lean mango]

I could see that being possible, I've always felt like a second album in August would make a lot of sense

And I stand by the opinion that they wouldn't need to roll it out ahead of time

They're in the middle of an active era so a surprise drop or maybe a week of notice and hype building would be plenty

[tough timber]

it feels too obvious after all the sleuthing and theorizing but it just occurred to me that if we're breaking the cycle "start fresh next semester" could be very literal

[tough timber]

ummm i feel an teensy bit stalkerish rn but this is the school calendar for the high school tyler went to. next semester did come out during their spring break (March 27) and the album dropped May 24 the day after the school year ended. the fall semester will start either August 15 or 16 which are the dates of the first two shows of the tour. as usual I can't tell if I'm crazy or maybe onto something

[small turtle]

I've been wondering the last couple of days if there's a chance some of the references to time and being held up in Clancy are intentional or just there. But if you listen for them there are several: 'Did you pull up yet? Did you forget we're tight on time?' 'What's your ETA?' 'Two minutes. Chill out, man, we're time on time.' 'Pardon my delay...I don't know how long it's been....' Semesters and years have already been discussed. Feel like I might be missing one. Like I said, though, it could just be there, but it might also not be an accident...like so much of this, lol.

...I've never seen anyone point out that there are two references to 'half' of something in Overcompensate. Maybe could indicate we've only got half an album?? Probably grasping at straws at this point but crazier things have been theorized in this thread.

[tame tendon]

In this i think time is the key, im not that smart but I really believe in that theory

Era

[devout mango]

I got this chilling feeling listening to the album the other day that he's actually telling us to stop looking through the lyrics 😭 starting with Backslide, he says he's drowning in logistics. Then the Craving I was hearing him saying "this album is something I've worked hard on, is it gonna be received like trench or like SAI?" and then listening to oldies station "before you know, you lose some people close forcing you to manage your pace "start a streak you're bound to break" made me think hes trying to say can't keep making the puzzles harder and harder while still making the music and the tour and the FPE and everything else. in snap back "I commandeered a hot ride drove it till the engine died all of that progress lost today" like it was just a huge huge task to make this (imo PERFECT) album and then add onto it so much more from experiences to puzzles to merch and promo. Idk not saying he's incapable by ANY means. Just maybe personally feeling guilty for expecting more 🤷🏽‍♀️

[tough timber]

half empty half full save half for your taxes - clancy part 2 coming on tax day? jk jk

[tough timber]

the 2s and halves could be something and definitely not the craziest thing proposed lol

[signal spruce]

I can’t remember for sure which chat this was in, but the black standard Blurryface vinyl missing Goner was written by a third party

It took them a while to find out but they did ☺️

[tough timber]

went a little crazy on the calendar thing and started a new thread https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1261164449260245114 if anyone wants to read and tell me if I've lost it or not

[tropic oracle]

this is hella weird

[twilit briar]

that is actually stalkerish

[small turtle]

I really doubt that's the most stalkerish thing a TOP fan has done trying to crack codes

[olive plume]

yeah, the school is public info and so is their schedules

it’d be another thing entirely if someone started showing up to the school to ask about stuff pertaining to one of their (old) students but just looking at their calendars online isn’t exactly stalker behavior, especially when schools in the midwest (and elsewhere) follow the same semester/quarter format

[ember sinew]

Any new speculation on the date of part 2?

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[waxen meteor]

ive been messing around with (47,14,6,25) being akin to the donnie darko countdown. if 47 is 47 days, then this saturday, july 13th would put us at 47 days after josh posted that insta story with these numbers and "a great day for a clancy 10k". is 14 is hours, then that might bump us over into july 14th. i dont believe this theory enough* to actually advocate that july 13th is going to happen, but just throwing it out there.

*some issues with it-- for one, if 47 is days and 14 is hours, then 6 is minutes and 25 is seconds; and considering how many times we've seen "25", i feel it has to be more significant than seconds in a countdown

ive also tried using different units, for example like month/weeks/days/hours, etc., and with different start dates (release of vessel, moon letter dates, etc.), but so far haven't gotten anywhere

i still think late may, or june 2025, is the most likely date we will get the finale, just not sure if we already have hints for dates for stuff releasing between then and now

[tropic oracle]

that doesn't make it okay lol

[slate jewel]

it's public information. it would be stalking if it was information obtained via some private / extremely hard to find source OR they actually stalked him. info released in interviews, social media posts, etc is public - it's the internet. now, if they actually went to the school to interrogate people or scoured the net to find classmates or relatives to message on social media...that would be a different story
but that's just my opinion

[lean mango]

nah, you're right, ellie just really likes putting people down for some reason

but yea, it's public information and it's going to be the same as a lot of other schools anyway, nothing about that is stalking

not like they had to dig to figure out which school it was either, it's well known and he's talked about it publicly before

That said, I think that kind of thing is definitely going to be a dead end

I think any connection that doesn't have some way to verify it is unlikely to be intended, beyond maybe an easter egg

and especially if it gets to the level of just vague references in lyrics, I just think it's too big a stretch

I think it helps to remember that not only does it have to be a connection people could make, but it has to be something Tyler could reasonably expect some people to think of and have enough confidence that it'll be correct that they look deeper and take the time to piece it all together. From his perspective, he can't know what exactly we'll think of, so he needs to implement some signs that we're going the right way. And looking back at previous puzzles, they've pretty much all done that

doesn't mean that it's a problem to look into that kind of stuff, I just wouldn't expect it to go anywhere

• the more things you pull in as potential evidence, the higher the chance for weird coincidences to show up and seemingly confirm things

[slate jewel]

so true

[tropic oracle]

i have a bunch of lovely conversations on here but sure come after me for the time we had a disagreement

i dont dislike anyone here nor do i "like putting people down" we had a disagreement once lmao

[lean mango]

Nah, I've seen how you treat people many times outside of that. I have 0 respect or tolerance for bullying, just because you're "subtle" about it or not doing it all the time doesn't make it not true. As long as you keep having those lovely conversations I won't interact with you. I would've done the same here, but you decided to make someone feel like they were doing something morally wrong (/potentially illegal) for looking into their theory through public information, someone who YOU KNEW already felt a bit weird about it based on the first message you responded to, and then you came back to do it again after people reassured them.

Regardless of if you were right (which you weren't), what's the point? What's the supposed harm in someone looking at dates on a calendar that no longer even has anything to do with Tyler? If there is none, then you're just attacking someone for no reason. It's simple, if I see bullying behavior I'll call it out, whether it's you or someone else. That's all I'm going to say, this is a theories channel and I have no interest in arguing or debating with you.

O, just thought of something

In a recent thread, someone brought up again that the birds in Paladin are the same ones in The Craving

and it occurred to me, The Craving's chorus talks about Tyler finding his body in chains, and laying down and waiting, and hoping someone looks for him

Almost the same topic as Drag Path

And now we know Paladin ends with Nico having the upper hand, though it's ambiguous whether he's found the strength to fight back or if he'll be captured

Maybe the identical bird sample is intending to point us to The Craving and say this will be the outcome

HMMM... Actually, if you place The Craving (single version) after Paladin from the perspective that Clancy got captured, it takes on a whole new meaning

"now I see intentions don't mean much"

"seems I get in my own way"

and of course the chorus

I always thought it was weird that Tyler chose to write about that in particular

He said himself it's not a reflection of where they're at in their relationship and how he feels now, it's something he was dealing with back at the beginning

Maybe it's because it would end up being relevant to the story, at least thematically even if it's not a direct representation of Clancy

[small turtle]

I think there could be something to that

[tropic oracle]

i've never bullied anyone 😭

i also have Never had issues with anyone here

only person i've ever had issues with is you and i never had the issue to begin with !!! u had an issue with me

all i said b4 was peeking too far into tylers personal life was abit weird and if you see that as a form of bullying of putting someome down perhaps reevaluate things a little

i don't have a problem with anyone here so im sorey if u thought i did :]

i didn't make them feel like it was illegal !!! u have always taken my words way too far and i really dont appreciate the way you talk about me

u talk about me as if im some evil person who's mere purpose is to disprove theories and bully other people which is just so far from the truth and so mean if im being real

for someone who seems to be an advocate on speaking to others kindly you've said some rather nasty things to me in this server, just please treat others the same way u want to be treated

[vale canyon]

Please just move on. It's in the past. Don't interact with each other again.

[viral quail]

We all have differences of opinions and unless it’s personally impacting you or targeting someone it’s best to keep it to yourself

This is a theory thread where we should all feel comfortable sharing our ideas

[lean mango]

well tbf the thing I called out was targeting someone

that said, I'll gladly not interact anymore, it's not pleasant for me anyway, but I also do feel bad about dragging anyone else into it

so I apologize for that

[vale canyon]

No worries

What was the train of thought about? I just got home

[lean mango]

which, the theory thing I posted?

[vale canyon]

Uhm yeah whatever you guys were cookin heh

[lean mango]

TL;DR if the end of Paladin results in defeat and Clancy being captured, it could recontextualize The Craving

And that may be why Tyler chose to write a song about that in particular even though it's something from the very beginning of his and Jenna's relationship and not what he's feeling now

And it could explain the same bird sample being used in both, if it's not just an efficiency thing, it could be intentionally pointing us back to The Craving

not to mention, The Craving's subject could be taken as very similar to Drag Path

[vale canyon]

Is the bird sample similar to the one in good day?

[lean mango]

I'll check

[vale canyon]

Also drag path could have ended in the craving

[lean mango]

Somewhat similar but I think not the same sample

yea, that's possible, I want to check something

ok, Drag Path's placement in the DR booklet is between Routines and Vignette

not quite where The Craving is, but close

only one song off

That said, the booklet includes both Drag Path and The Craving, which may be evidence that one isn't meant to be taken as a replacement for the other

If that's the case, They could be about a similar thing in the story

[vale canyon]

What silver weighted sun was about? I think it has backslide lyrics?

[lean mango]

It's hard to tell, it has lyrics from Backslide and Overcompensate but the additional verse is really cryptic

[sly hazel]

The Craving directly pulling lines from one of the letters was always such a big flag to me that it might have an entire double meaning that we aren't supposed to know yet or we are meant to figure out later on

You know those moments where we go and listen to old songs and suddenly they have a whole new meaning like ACATAD and march to the sea? Could happen with The Craving too

And maybe that's why there's 2 versions
Something we've never seen them do before
One specifically for Jenna as a more solemn love song but then the other a real song that gets recontextualized later when we have more context

[devout mango]

I was just discussing this with my friend @vital arrow that since some songs talk about stuff that happens in the future in the story, (example: tear in my heart) is it possible that there are songs referencing other songs that havent even came out yet?

Maybe the unexplained events in some MVs (example: dema towers on fire in outside video) are actually foreshadowing songs weve never heard

[lean mango]

Wait, what's from letters?

[graceful hill]

I believe it's the one about fear of the unknown crippling steps

[viral quail]

But if you look at page 48 the alternate tack placement it does fall between Routines and Vingette

[olive plume]

#lore-updates message

[winged sapphire]

hai.........any.............

[warm kettle]

And now we just sit in silence

[small turtle]

Sometimes quiet is violent

or boring

[winged sapphire]

hai.........any.............something..at..all

[devout mango]

Cause I am quiet now and silence gives you space

[vital arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/cali9-gif-9320352

And still no opener announcement eh?

[fathom lantern]

we gotta be missing something

[quartz sphinx]

Wow thanks. I didn’t catch that at all.

[small turtle]

I've seen a lot of people comment on this at various points. I was not deeply enough into this fandom to pay attention to the tour details before. What's the significance of this?

[tame tendon]

I think the fanbase is tired

Just a lil eepy

And thats alright

[tough timber]

pretty sure people were just speculating who the opener will be? and also wondering if the lack of an announcement means no opener? which I'd be chill with personally bc that just means a longer set list if there's no opener

[tough timber]

also yeah i think we've found a ton of possible hints/clues/connections but nothing concrete and that's probably tiring some people out

[tawny leaf]

yo

[small turtle]

I don't actually know what an 'opener' is. I thought it was just an opening song, but this is making it sound like it's not that.

[tough timber]

oh like the opening act, i think in the past they usually have had one or two other bands open for them on other tours

[small turtle]

huh

[tough timber]

I haven't seen them live since the emøtiønal røadshøw tøur and i don't even remember who opened back then

[small turtle]

well, a longer set list makes sense to me, given that it seems like they'll be playing stuff from all their albums

more than normal maybe

the whole 'flashback' thing

[patent coral]

It was Mutemath, Chefspecial, Jon Bellion, and Judah and the Lion all at different points

Which looking back was such a stacked lineup

[tough timber]

i still think there's been way too many hints that there's more to come but i don't think anybody knows where to look for more clues now

i cite that Z100 interview where tyler said the final battle is after the album and then confirmed on twitter that the final battle is not the tour

also the Q99.7 interview where josh clearly said final chapters of the story

and clancy ultimus capitulus 25 can't mean nothing imo

also i keep thinking about this

this is all just speculative though and i know people are still trying to find bread crumbs but nothing has led to more info yet as far as i know

also i watched back the zane lowe interviews recently and tyler did say there would be more explanation after this album and he's not even done a zane lowe interview yet this time which is sus

and the fact they've never said "clancy the full length album" like they did with previous albums

there's so much to indicate more but we just haven't found anything concrete yet

[waxen meteor]

Apparently Trench opener was released only 3 weeks out?

[lean mango]

I guess so

[tough timber]

idk if this is relevant to anything but the visual similarities between fairly local and routines in the night have been on my mind so i made a side by side of both videos (plus i think everyone saw that it's blurryface grabbing tyler at the beginning of routines)

thinking about blurryface being in tyler's head/dreams disturbing his sleep and then shy away torchbearer/josh waking him up to show him the way

might be nothing but the hallways, lighting, and outfits in both vids have been on my mind

[quartz sphinx]

That was cool. Thanks for making and sharing it. Lots of parallels for sure.

[winged sapphire]

any anything

[lean mango]

nope

back in mini hiatus

[long rose]

Hey, at least if you missed the experience that was the hiatus era you can live it now

[plush island]

The word Isidoran reminds me of Residro's name... sounds kinda similar

Oh man I missed some drama

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 16!

[plush island]

Yay. Now F off Nico

[tough timber]

sameeee but idk what to do with the maps/isidore lol
there's a lot of lyrics pertaining to directions and geography too so maybe there's some connection but who knows

[small turtle]

woo, just what I always wanted

[tough timber]

glad i wasn't a huge fan during hiatus tbh

like i was listening to tøp at the time but unaware of anything really happening outside of the music itself so i had no idea that anything out of the ordinary was going on 🤣

[olive plume]

hiatus was painful 😭 they swore off All social media and physical appearances so we didn’t even get clique art likes/retweets or Anything

it was like they dropped off the face of the earth

and then people started seeing josh in public and he was wearing hats but it looked like his head was shaved

[sly hazel]

The day the eye started to open was the day I freaked tf oht

[olive plume]

at least with the hiatus, we Knew it was gonna be silence. they warned us beforehand. this is just a weird anticipatory waiting period where you’re not sure what to expect or if you should expect anything at all until tour

[long rose]

I mean, for the fact that Tyler said we would see them at the show. Makes me think that's a way to give advance notice that there's probably nothing planned until then.

And if Clancy Ultimus Capitulus 25 meant 2025, then also the wait is not that long and somehow they are giving advance notice before we go even crazier, and so I would understand that there is now more let's say inactivity in the theories, because there is no more for now.

Although I won't deny that this whole rollout felt rather strange and a bit rather inactive.

[olive plume]

i need zane lowe interview

[long rose]

I think that's also a factor that makes it feel strange, there have been no big interviews and now there's not much time left for the tour.

[vital arrow]

Yess 😤

[long rose]

I would think that it feels a little bit rushed in some ways to try to overcompensate us and even that may have affected a few other things within the original planning and they managed to pull it off as best they could.

[tough timber]

i guess i wasn't following them on socials back then - i don't remember any of that lol

i remember someone i went to high school with introduced me to them in like 2013 or 14 so i was around when blurryface came out but i was just listening to the songs and didn't have all the context back then

and i saw them live in 2016 but was definitely a more casual fan back then

[small turtle]

was there some reason for the hiatus? Their families, lore, something to do with their label, etc?

[lean mango]

They wanted to give themselves space from everyone to figure out the new direction they wanted to go

[olive plume]

tyler also mentioned wanting to weed out the fans who only hopped on during the hype with stressed out, etc. so the people who stayed are the ones he cares about the most. or however he phrased it

[small turtle]

huh ok

bet their label loved that

FBR: 'oh look, this band we've got just won song of the year'

TOP: 'we want to get rid of people who only care about Stressed Out'

FBR: ...

[tough timber]

the more i rewatch interviews the more it seems like tyler (maybe both of them) really struggled with the intensity of that time period but that's just my opinion based on how they talk about it in retrospect

[lean mango]

I didn't hear that particular comment but I doubt he wanted to weed anyone out