Double Album Confirmed

[safe spade]

But its the first time in a LONG time that they mention playing most of ST and RAB

They'll play things for really small shows

[small turtle]

interesting...I am intrigued

It's just I can't get Self-Titled out of my head at the moment, particularly 'A Car, a Torch, a Death.'

all the theorizing about Torchbearer and such

[safe spade]

For example I went to the Quiet Is Violent tour in 2014 and they played Forest,Fall Away, Addict With A Pen and Kitchen Sink in that order

[small turtle]

cause like literally:

I feel like, though this song was written before the story, the phrasing of the letter might be an intentional reference

[safe spade]

Sooo much of ST relates to Clancy

[small turtle]

yeah

[safe spade]

Honestly Forest even seems relevant

[small turtle]

burning stuff : )

oops I wanted to make it clear what i was replying to

[silk bolt]

How did I not realize till now

His extra additions

Bevahse he could of added different or more or less to not have to jumble it up at the bottom

[small turtle]

oh there's 11 of them

oh Tyler what are you doing my man

You're making us crazy

[silk bolt]

And he specifically left a gap in Clancy for the singles version of the craving

There's a gap between Clancy and that list starting

[small turtle]

11 + 14

[silk bolt]

Always

11 + 14

See his set list things he posts are for a reason, we weren't crazy for the lavish one

[small turtle]

I'm not good at math. When I was a kid, I had to come up with real-world or story things to help me remember math facts. Still not great at math. I will never forget that 11+14=25 ever again

[safe spade]

WAIT

Does anyone find the order of the albums weird 👀

[silk bolt]

I never looked at the order actually ...

[small turtle]

yeah I thought it was odd but I haven't come up with anything significant about the order

[silk bolt]

He included self titled to make 6 tho

[quaint steppe]

Low key guys call me dull but I have a new theory - they’ll surprise drop the part two on June 19th. And barely any hints for this, just most of the singles were four weeks apart, then the PS music video was (and if the album hadn’t been delayed a week the PS music video still could have been and would have dropped June 14th - early June) and so that the marketing’s nice and spaced out and they get some buzz they’re waiting until four weeks pass. Or maybe it’ll be an announcement or a single or something but I’m sure they’ll drop it this side of tour

[silk bolt]

It's a weird order tho , there has to be something

[safe spade]

I know they consider Vessel their debut but making self titled 2nd BUT we need to consider they "forgot" Goner and Not Today

[small turtle]

June 19? Next year? Or July 19 this year?

[silk bolt]

Not when he made sure to put goner on his new one

It was on purpose

[quaint steppe]

Ah whoops sorry I meant July 19th yeh

[silk bolt]

But why

How many songs is it

Is there a specific page on DR we are supposed to look at based on the number of songs ?

[small turtle]

well that's esp odd considering he definitely hasn't forgotten the existence of Goner given the fake setlist from the other day

[safe spade]

Well Blurryface has 14 songs so it ends up having 12 and funny enough it ends with Hometown "You can bring the fire, I can bring the bones"

[silk bolt]

Goner is definitely a main main point

[silk bolt]

Ooooo

[safe spade]

Then it goes SAI > Trench > Clancy

Leave The City going into Welcome back to Trench via Overcompensate

[small turtle]

Clancy's gonna die. Or is dead. And will be brought back by Torchbearer. Convince me otherwise would take all night!

'You bring the fire, I'll bring the bones.'

(To be clear, I have been convinced of this for awhile already)

[weak swallow]

he’s just bringing ned’s bones though

[small turtle]

yeah well I should have been able to put that together given that you said four weeks

[small turtle]

huuhh...feels like it could be intentional

[silk bolt]

Maybe it's a key to give us what songs to look at it figure it out

[vital arrow]

I rewatched Paul Meany talking about mixing Overcompensate again today. He mentions the tempo change, I was staring so hard at his screen to pick it apart at the tempo change lol
I keep going back to the Overcompensate video… them pulling the mask off “Clancy” and it’s a girl.
How in the video he comes out the door during the tempo change… coming alive?
I’ll morph into someone else, I’m just a ghost… he’s a copy/projection?… got his name from a grave…? Idk just thoughts 😅

[small turtle]

I'm not even sure what it is we're meant to be figuring out anymore though 😂

[vital arrow]

Felt 😅

[small turtle]

these are all fun thoughts

what I want to know, though: I still don't get what's going on in the Overcompensate video

[vital arrow]

Me either 😅🤔

[small turtle]

Has he been seizing the girl? Is that why she falls over? How is that meant to teach the citizens of Dema? That feels really sketch

[fleet pier]

Are we cooking today?

[small turtle]

And there seem to be two of him?

[small turtle]

we've been picking apart a list Tyler made of all their songs...except it's not all of them and they're in a weird order

[small turtle]

and there's this theory

And I'll listen to anyone who can explain what's going on in the Overcompensate MV

[safe spade]

See from some of the diagrams hes showing people its like hes teaching them about seizing??

[vital arrow]

Josh seems to be looking around too at the start of the video, like he’s looking for Tyler.. While he’s dancing behind him, before the tempo change. The girl Clancy looks like Tyler, and she falls like she has been seized imo.
I’m theorizing that Clancy in the tower with Nico isn’t him, but a projection of sorts, that way Nico cannot control him. Maybe over-reaching here. I think there was an OG Clancy before Tyler took over his identity. And the mask is a symbol of his cause/fight.

[safe spade]

I definitely think an OG Clancy exisited

[tame tendon]

maybe the first citizen who’s ever escaped dema?

[waxen meteor]

what led you to conclude that its a burial site?

interesting parallels w/ some older works if thats the case

[olive plume]

it reminded me of pics i’ve seen of burial pits, especially ones associated with zoroastrianism

[vital arrow]

Does anyone have any good suggestions for a photo editing app to play with the DR images? I have an iPhone 15 pro max

[viral quail]

I really think you guys are cooking with the trial evidence
It’s such a reoccurring theme, then with the DR acting as evidence

“right in front of your eyes” also feels like it’s hammering home that we should look at all the ‘evidence’ that has been given to us repeatedly

We also get images 7, 9 and 11 from dmaorg again in the digital remains

And mentions of trial within lyrics across albums

To me that feels SOOO important

And to remember we missed something during the trench era

[safe spade]

THANK YOU!!! I feel like no one really pays attrntion to it

OMG I FORGOT ABOUT THAT

[viral quail]

I keep coming back to this
What did we miss and what could Tyler have done to give us a clue to what we missed … the 3 repeated dmaorg images

The trial
I feel like he is trying to bring us back to that

I’ve got work but I know exactly what I am coming home to fixate on

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 3!

[vital arrow]

Yes! I’m glad as well you guys are on board with the significance of the dmaorg images in DR that’s why I’m looking for a good editing app. I’m a noob on an iPhone 😅 been Android for life, but got a better upgrade with the iPhone.
I already have some of the images from both to review, as well as taking into account the name of the files on the dmaorg site

[safe spade]

Also the fact everyone who got letters earlier this year were called Citizen's of Dema

Ohhh and the dema restricted message that I didnt notice until recenly said something about confinement or banishment (I gotta find the full sentence)

[viral quail]

I was editing and playing with these clips alllll night so I’m very familiar with this warning

Ingrained on the back of my eyes

[viral quail]

I use splice for videos
Picsart is okay for photo editing but I’m sure their are better photo editing apps

[safe spade]

Maybe we need access to an "Authorized Personnel" 👀

Like how were we able to "access" Clancy's file anyways??

[vital arrow]

Thank you!! 🫶

[viral quail]

Speaking of evidence there is the whole DAMN JOURNSL

I wish I got one smh

[tame trout]

really puts The Judge in a whole new perspective for me tbh.

[tame trout]

do you need the digital remains file? I could try sending it to you if that’s allowed?

[safe spade]

@safe zodiac scanned their journal

[safe spade]

#theories message

[safe spade]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uWEF-lJQ60HST3N3m-nKJ1kY3KjfKv8x?usp=sharing

[tough timber]

the more i think about overcompensate the more i think we're missing something there

but idk which path to even follow bc we have

1. the call backs to Banditos
2. several references to eyes/sleep which i think there's been a separate thread somewhere discussing eyes/sleep
3. the dangerous bend symbol - i feel like there's something there but idk what
4. clancy being referred to as a prodigal son feels odd too bc what we know from the lore doesn't align with the biblical prodigal son story at all

the bend symbol + the wait what, wait what's kinda make me think we're supposed to look closer at something here since the bourbaki group used it to indicate extra tricky equations from my understanding
it seems like it's supposed to be a sign to pay attention and be careful bc it's easy to mess up/miss something if you're not alert/aware but idk what that means for the lore

[safe spade]

Hmmm I will say in the background can of Overcompensate you can vocals that say "Confusion"

[viral quail]

Omg I love you thank you for this

[tough timber]

i wonder if anyone has isolated the background vocals?

[safe spade]

https://youtu.be/SkqtH1l-qNU?si=4YR4DGZVQ7JTgtky&t=155

[viral quail]

Was thinking about this exact same thing last night

[tame trout]

im currently watching the overcompensate mv on .25 speed to see if i catch anything and its straight nightmare fuel

[tough timber]

i tried looking for anagrams with the dangerous bend symbol and right in front of your eyes and i never found any solid leads so for now at least i kinda gave up on that idea lol

[safe spade]

So maybe we need to look back at Trench era stuff sincr wr missed something

Also they inculded SOOO MUCH about Backslide in Digital Remains

[tough timber]

maybe? i've been listening to tøp since like 2014 but i never really got involved in the puzzles/looking for clues before now so i wouldn't even know where to start with trench 🫣

[worldly wigeon]

Dangerous bend symbol to me is showing the link between two simultaneous timelines. When one ends the other begins. Z

[safe spade]

Well the dma website is a good place to start

[tough timber]

I've at least looked through that stuff, I just wasn't paying attention when it was new 😅

[slate jewel]

"I am clancy" is a good place to get updated

[lean mango]

what's that?

[celest dust]

It's an anagram of "Digital Remains"

[lean mango]

what about "Dema is trialing"?

[safe spade]

Also I was trying to do some research on anything from overcompensateand found this?

Im sure someone forever ago saw this already though....

[waxen meteor]

summary -- Blurryface is a 2LP (an album large enough it needs two vinyls). Removing Goner, like the fake BF tracklist in the fake vinyl listing on store, makes the album just short enough to be pressed on 1LP. The image of the fake BF album in the store is a 1LP. Clancy's length is right at the limit for going over into a 2LP due to physical limitations of vinyl.

To me, the addition of the fake 1LP Blurryface vinyl with a song removed strongly hints at addl content for Clancy.

i would have assumed someone thought this already but couldn't find any record of it in this server (but my keyword search may be lackluster)

the fake version of the BF vinyl in the store, the one with Goner removed from the tracklist, is also a 1LP (based on the photo), when the real vinyl is a 2LP (that is, it has two vinyls but is one album)

i then looked into album lengths for their discography and info about how long a single LP can be (note that Clancy is a 1LP album)

BF 2LP - 52 min 23 sec [14 tracks]
BF fake 1LP on store w/o Goner - 48 min 27 sec [13 tracks]
Clancy 1LP - 47 min 18 sec [13 tracks]*
Vessel 1LP - 47 min 49 sec [12 tracks]
Trench 2LP - 56 min 9 sec [14 tracks]
SAI 1LP, MTV Unplugged 1LP - below 40 minutes [11 tracks]

*(includes a full minute of bird noise ; btw, without the minute of silence, PS ties w/ Bandito for longest song (+/- 2 sec))

Google: how many minutes can a single LP hold?

• most manufacturers will refuse to press anything more than 25 min per side, and it could be even less depending on the mfr
• above 23 minutes (46 min total) per side, you start to lose sound fidelity (RIP 1 min birdsong in PS)
• the more you put on it, the worse the sound quality gets
• 22 minutes per side is very safe

Clancy Side A:
23 minutes 44 seconds
Clancy Side B:
23 minutes 34 seconds

[safe spade]

👀 I didnt even know that version was fake....

[waxen meteor]

its difficult to get more than 3 things in one screenshot, but for reference, all of the other 2lps clearly have 2 vinyls showing in the photo, vs. the fake listing of bf that only has one showing (and actually it looks like a photoshop of the trench cd image)

[tough timber]

probably a long shot but does "radon log psi" mean anything to any of you that understand math/science stuff? lol

[safe spade]

Also, I think we need to look at different forms of Morse code maybe??

hmmm the log psi lowkey seems a little familar

[safe spade]

I put it in an anagram solver and got prodigals

[tough timber]

you're reverse engineering me lol i was looking at anagrams of "prodigal son"

but I don't know a lot about math/science stuff

I saw "psi" and I at least recognized that as the Ψ symbol so it caught my attention

[safe spade]

LOL ummm let me see if I get anything from the rest

Hmmm thinking abut this again...

https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/comments/1b4jzvo/the_judgemorphovercompensate_connected_by_josh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[waxen meteor]

they cooked but i gotta add this context -- josh dun wasnt in the original lyrics for the judge and they were going to edit it out but left it in bc its funny https://x.com/tylerrjoseph/status/617533916136615936?lang=en https://x.com/top_cmplt_dvrsn/status/1676315031041093633

[safe spade]

Lol im taking back what I previously said even with context I think it counts more now

[celest dust]

A fake vinyl seems reallllly sus. Reminds me of "How did you find http://dmaorg.info/found/15398642_14/clancy.html?" which was found through the shop back in the day. Also, again another "Goner" reference. It was also missing in Tyler's insta post that lists all songs and albums

There might be something here

[safe spade]

Hmmmmmmmm let me try something 👀

[lean mango]

Yea, that looks like a fake vinyl listing, maybe we have to dig deeper on that page

[quartz sphinx]

Yeah it’s also the only music image with words on the image.

[waxen meteor]

not totally sure what u mean by this but yeah just bc it wasnt originally there doesnt mean they didnt make it meaningful later, also jsut to clairfy, i still think that post has a lot of great connections and stuff in it-- i dont think you actually need that lyric to make the connections. (also, i dont think this discussion is related to a double album at all, so maybe move into the regular theory channel?)

[lean mango]

Looking the sku up it shows the normal 2x vinyl

[celest dust]

Looks like this was already flagged 4 months ago and it wasn't sold out back then based on the screenshot: https://www.reddit.com/r/twentyonepilots/comments/1b7qzbn/weird_new_blurryface_listing_on_their_store/?rdt=61564

[waxen meteor]

yes, it is not new, the new analysis im bringing is about how removing goner makes it possible to fit on 1LP as shown in the photo

(which again may not be new, but i couldnt find it)

[tame trout]

also is it weird to anyone else the verbiage on the listing?

[safe spade]

My bad I said something else and I replaced it with that real quick! But overall I agree that its relevant regardless of context Im sorry if that came off weird

[tame trout]

it’s not grammatically correct it’s kind of confusing

[lean mango]

Do any of the other 2x LPs in the store show only one disc? Meaning Trench I guess

doesn't look like it

[devout mango]

Missing a track

https://store.twentyonepilots.com/products/blurryface-black-vinyl if anyone wants to play around on here

[waxen meteor]

yeah the wording is totally off too, it doesnt look like the other ones.. i thought it was kinda reminiscient of how the BF twitter account fails to grasp the english language (but not SO obvious that we would be sure its fake)

[safe spade]

IT'S MISSING GONER

[waxen meteor]

guys we have known about the goner missing track and this fake listing since march 😭

i just didnt see anyone point out how the photo is a 1LP, and how if you remove Goner, then BF becomes short enough to fit on 1LP

[waxen meteor]

nope, this is the only one

bf silver vinyl and trench both clearly show two vinyls.

also, the fake bf listing doesnt even look like the other 1lp vinyls, it looks more like a photoshopped cd lol

[devout mango]

On Spotify when you play goner the screen has the flying birds 🤷‍♀️

[safe spade]

It's from the visualizer on youtube more than likely

[waxen meteor]

i never made that connection with the birds, thats been a theme around goner forever

[safe spade]

I wasn't here in March my bad 🫠

[waxen meteor]

also, this shirt was still in the store until pretty recently, idk when it was removed (dont feel like checking way back and doubt its even there but who knows) https://store.warnermusic.ca/products/goner-box-t-shirt

(i remember it specifically bc ive only been into TOP in the last 1 year, and i was thinking of buying it for myself if i could squeeze into a childrens size lmao)

it could have just been removed bc they sold out... or it could have been intentionally removed

[celest dust]

Not sure if at all relevant, but the first three links to the shop are broken on the TOP homepage: https://www.twentyonepilots.com/

[safe spade]

It's working for me

[wraith gulch]

Jade, your point about BF now fitting onto one vinyl without Goner and the image reflecting that is super interesting. Definitely think this is worth pursuing. That and the bad grammar, it’s like they are throwing hints left and right at it.

Like you said, we’ve known about the missing Goner for awhile now but this is definitely interesting and seemingly very intentional

[waxen meteor]

ty! thing is im not sure theres actually much more to pursue about it. just another piece evidence towards us getting at least 1 more song, possibly a double album

[quartz sphinx]

I do see on the Australian store that the blurryface black vinyl is also pictured with one vinyl but the description shows it is two and has an accurate track list. https://store.warnermusic.com.au/products/blurryface-12-vinyl

It’s missing the weird text at the top though. It also says preorder

[waxen meteor]

goner is included too
..interesting

dang i may have cooked a bit too hard then lmao

[wraith gulch]

“THE BLURRYFACE VINYL HERE IS THE STANDARD BLACK VINYL VERSION OF THE ALBUM.” is 13 words, calling more attention to the missing track maybe?

[quartz sphinx]

Nah it’s still super fishy.

[celest dust]

It is a different image though, notice how on the TOP shop the light is coming from the bottom

[waxen meteor]

:0 i wish i could triple exclamation mark that one

[celest dust]

You could read "BLACK VINYL VERSION" as "BLACK FINAL VERSION" of Blurryface, and now maybe somehow Goner (a modified version) will be the 14th song on Clancy? I'm probably grasping at straws here

[vale canyon]

The perfect song to yell his name in

[safe spade]

Im curious how did that person even FIND the vessel gif in the store 🫠

[celest dust]

I found a link to the Standard Black Vinyl from March 5 where it was still available to order. But as soon as I try to add more than 17, it shows as "Sold out": https://web.archive.org/web/20240305115730/https://store.twentyonepilots.com/products/blurryface-black-vinyl

(I might be loosing the plot here please send SOS)

[waxen meteor]

i wonder if anyone successfully ordered it before it sold out

[celest dust]

Yeah me too. But it wasn't even listed yet on March 4: https://web.archive.org/web/20240304134715/https://store.twentyonepilots.com/collections/music

[waxen meteor]

not sure if this is a new find but i also noticed the image has teardrops on the left hand side, also two crosshairs on two of the circles

[lean mango]

I was noticing that, but I haven't looked closely enough at the original to know if it has that

[wraith gulch]

The vinyl prices are interesting too. Most of their full-length vinyls are $21.98. Trench, since it is two vinyls, is $29.99. Blurryface is $24.99. Even the Blurryface silver vinyl which has two vinyls is $21.98. Is the messed up BF Vinyl being the standout $24.99 price another nod to 25?

[waxen meteor]

im absolutely losing the plot here, but i also noticed that the vessel cd album art (which was added around the same time as the fake bf vinyl) is less satured than the vinyl album cover art

[celest dust]

I also noticed the 25 😳

[celest dust]

The double vinyl on Amazon also has it https://www.amazon.nl/Blurryface-Twenty-One-Pilots/dp/B010T34MLU

[safe spade]

maybe because in person those vinyls are like 31 bucks 😭

[waxen meteor]

bruh 😭

[safe spade]

if not more

[wraith gulch]

Clancy vinyls online were 27.98 so idk

[celest dust]

So just summarising here, based on the Internet Archive / Wayback Machine:

Blurryface Standard Black Vinyl

• Not listed on March 4, 2024 at 13:47:15
• Listed on March 5, 2024 at 11:57:30 with only 17 copies still available

And now I should really get ready for work, talk later you crazy people (of which I've become)

[waxen meteor]

ok so i realized the album art for the fake blurryface vinyl is different than the original album art, however, im confusing myself in photoshop and i think the easiest thing would be someone who owns the physical CD (or maybe the vinyl if you can remove blurryface like the CD?) checking it out

[safe spade]

I got mines!!

give me two seconds

[waxen meteor]

the circle in the fake vinyl are different -- the top left is the most different, then the others look like they could be rotated, translated, etc?

i dont have a physical copy and never have, but supposedly you can take out the red circle layer and move it around the black and white patterns?

see if you can get it to match the fake one

or is the variation in the patterns totally normal for different blurryface editions?

[safe spade]

My CD's in my car but I'll definitely check once I get up in the morning

🫡

[waxen meteor]

ok false alarm actually -- the differences im seeing are bc the album art for the vinyl and for the cd are different. the fake vinyl on the website matches the CD art for blurryface, but not the vinyl (it gets confusing if you look into it beyond top's own website bc a lot of website lazily photoshop the cd and call it the vinyl, not realizing the album artwork is a bit different)

[safe spade]

Ah sorry that lead to a dead end

We should make a forum for the Trial theory!

[vale canyon]

[safe spade]

Theres soooo much evidence for it!!

[wispy karma]

Hello i am new here and read through your comments about the fake lp and the order of the albums. I noticed, that in the EU Store they arrange the albums like this. Don’t know if it has been pointed out yet, but it’s weird to me, that only BF isn’t in its right place

[waxen meteor]

https://store.warnermusic.ca/products/blurryface-cd?_pos=2&_sid=4765b5e7d&_ss=r

on the Canada website, i found a listing for BF CD. it doesnt have goner in the tracklist, and here is the description: "THE BLURRYFACE CD HERE IS THE STANDARD JEWEL CASE VERSION OF THE ALBUM. THIS IS NOT THE SPECIALLY PACKAGED VERSION."

sound familiar?
"THE BLURRYFACE VINYL HERE IS THE STANDARD BLACK VINYL VERSION OF THE ALBUM."

honestly i would order it just to see if it really doesnt have goner, but i dont live in canada lol

its removed from the canada digital album too https://store.warnermusic.ca/products/blurryface-digital-album?_pos=119&_sid=7c89f3834&_ss=r

[wraith gulch]

That’s sooooo weird

[celest dust]

Okay yeah so I bought this just now and Goner is on there. It's just not listed on the tracklist for some reason?

Maybe it's just a mistake in the product catalog and we're (I'm) chasing ghosts here

[small turtle]

First person singular tense when he says 'I'll MORPH into someone else.'

[small turtle]

it's a goner

[small turtle]

'fly by' the dangerous bend symbol could be a reference to aviation? IDK. He could have said he was throwing caution to the wind in a lot of ways.

[open bluff]

I made a theory thread on this like a couple of days ago lmao

[small turtle]

oh cool, I was going to make one, I'll check it out!

[tropic oracle]

goner being gone is 100% a listing error

[small turtle]

this order alphabetical: B, C, M, S, T, V

[small turtle]

maybe the point is to chase ghosts. Goner was the G in Tyler's 'GHOSTS' fake set list

IDK I'm just messing with anything that comes into my head

[small turtle]

actually where's the thread for this?

[open bluff]

It’s kinda dead lmao
https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1256553264082718810

[viral quail]

You are right the art is different
I pulled out my vinyl to check and you can move the art around (there is also a overlay sheet which makes blurryface it’s super cool)

What it looks like is the black vinyl is printed artwork (photoshopped image)

The black vinyl on the left is the same cover image as the digital album

[viral quail]

Looks like it’s just alphabetical order

[viral quail]

Nevermind lol you already realised

Still like what you had all been cooking about Goner it feels like we getting flooded with clues about this song

[wispy karma]

Ah okay makes sense

[waxen meteor]

more goner theorying -- granted, its very late here so i hope i make some semblence of sense -- upon re-examing the lyrics, a possible interpretation of the song that i think is very consistent with tyler's other works, is that in the song, tyler is succumbing to blurryface/his mental health, but he gets help from "the ghost of you" who supports him ("underneath") to take BF out. also, he gets close to this ghost by slipping away into a sound/music.

i really dont know much about theology (so truly take this all with a massive grain of salt and i apologize if i offend anyone) but the ghost seems like it could be the holy spirit, which seems to be associated with creativity and inspiring people to do specific tasks, usually by giving them gifts.

also, the holy spirit is associated with the image of a dove-like bird descending to earth, not unlike the birds that are the pattern for goner (ie, the birds that are in the lower right circle on the album art.)

looking at tyler's whole body of work, but especially his older stuff, a common theme for him is being saved from depression/himself by taking on the task of helping others with music, and this interpretation of goner fits perfectly into that.

also, you could interpret taxi cab in much the same way ("I wanna fall inside your ghost
And fill up every hole inside my mind")

then finally, in the tweet with the lavish-laden set, we found the possible hidden message "ghosts," which draws a clear parallel with the ghost in goner.

im not sure what final conclusion can be drawn from all of this, but im guessing its hinting towards the resolution of the storyline

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[small turtle]

I think this whole line of logic tracks

[silk bolt]

I completely agree with this! I was getting at this more or less yesterday great explanation!

Did we ever find a reason besides lore or storyline for the order of the albums yesterday or amount of songs in each ?

[safe spade]

Hmmm not yet

[silk bolt]

Hmm

[signal spruce]

Standard black is 13 letters as well and was bolded?

Also I’ve been trying to see if “standard black” could unscramble to anything interesting and am having no luck 😂 closest I’ve gotten to making any sense is “badlands track” and “alt CD bans dark”

[tame trout]

also idk if this is relevant but the black standard vinyl for Clancy doesn’t say sold out on the website but when you click it this pops up

And the logo is off center? When I click the black banner below page not found it takes me to the rest of the merch - edited for clarification

[fleet pier]

Was it always grey like that?

[celest dust]

Ooooh @tame trout good catch with the bold. It's so strange this black vinyl, I don't think it ever actually existed

And indeed "standard black" = 13 characters, price is basically 25...

[tame trout]

the logo is gray on other places of the merch store currently I think to match the Clancy aesthetic

fuck it yall im gonna see if i can contact the merch store and ask about this weird vinyl

[celest dust]

Yeah do it 💪

[tame trout]

will let yall know if anyone gets back to me

[safe spade]

Lol Halsey "Badlands track"

That album DID come out the same year as blurryface.....

LOL and she has a song called Ghost

[tame trout]

alright boys we have a ticket ID for my merch request stay tuned

[celest dust]

Lol I'm not even making this up

This is straight from Wikipedia haha

Wtf

[tame trout]

badlands and blurryface were the albums of my 2015 youth and im gonna take a wild guess and say they’re unrelated

[celest dust]

Yeah 100% but the ø is soooo coincidental

[cosmic jewel]

Hello I've noticed smth. In Guns for hands video we have a LOT of reference for events happening in the Clancy album, and i think that this it has alredy been pointed out. (like Tyler giving Josh the mask like Josh did in Navigating MV)
At some point of the video we can see the band logo and the guys covered in tape. The colors are cyan and red, in the picture | is cyan and / is red.

It might be a strech but... the band sent in the chat only half logo, the first half is |- so Tyler/Clancy side. Means that is josh the one missing? Or that clancy is all alone... or just Mark mistyping the logo.
I don't know if I expressed it correctly.

[small turtle]

Josh missing would check out with all the stuff pointing to Clancy ignoring him

[waxen meteor]

going to repost this bc it may have gotten a bit buried

https://store.warnermusic.ca/products/blurryface-cd?_pos=2&_sid=4765b5e7d&_ss=r
on the Canada website, i found a listing for BF CD. it doesnt have goner in the tracklist, and here is the description: "THE BLURRYFACE CD HERE IS THE STANDARD JEWEL CASE VERSION OF THE ALBUM. THIS IS NOT THE SPECIALLY PACKAGED VERSION."

sound familiar?
"THE BLURRYFACE VINYL HERE IS THE STANDARD BLACK VINYL VERSION OF THE ALBUM."
honestly i would order it just to see if it really doesnt have goner, but i dont live in canada lol

theres some universe where this listing in truly a wild goose chase bc some fueld by ramen intern copy pasted from the canadian bf cd and didnt bother to make the wording make sense lmao

[small turtle]

that's bizarre. The anagram, the release year, the slash symbol, and GHOST.

[safe spade]

There's been such a heavy focus on Josh which makes me wonder if the next album is about Torch finding Clancy??

[safe spade]

I think Josh may be the missing one, also in Oldies Josh and Tyler swap positions in Jumpsuit

[cosmic jewel]

Sorry what do you you mean?

[cosmic jewel]

ooooh this is so cool

thanks a lot for sharing

[safe spade]

No prob!

[tough timber]

there's been a little bit of conversation about all the numbers in the lyrics, mvs, and Tyler's clothes even in the digital remains thread but i just noticed (on genius at least) there's 25 "nos" at the beginning of next semester 🤡

[wraith gulch]

Wow. GREAT parallel

[wraith gulch]

if that's intentional, they're geniuses. oh wait, we already know they are. cool find

[vale canyon]

There is some explanation of why at the start of next semester mv is the end of navigating? Other than the reverse/flashback theory? (Really cool read btw)

[ripe wharf]

Has this been posted here yet? No evidence that it’s actually run by the boys but also maybe it is…

https://www.instagram.com/theonlybanditw?igsh=YnJzazJkM3UxYm02

If you click on the link in their bio there’s a countdown and you can input your email to subscribe. But I have no idea what it is

[signal spruce]

https://discord.com/channels/269657133673349120/1257436319064264786

On here they’ve found it’s made by a legit merch company called sandbag but still no 100% confirmation it’s run by TØP

[safe spade]

Thanks! Lol I just noticed the pipes are in the logo over the (dead?) body |-/

[ripe wharf]

Ok awesome thanks!

[wraith gulch]

oh shit

I never noticed that

[safe spade]

Also the slow zoom-ins during that part of Oldies is honestly ominous and a bit creepy and I'm not sure why....

also, it focuses on an out-of-focus Josh climbing out of the...trench...ditch?

[wraith gulch]

do you mind if I repost that comparison w/ jumpsuit and stuff in verified?

[safe spade]

Sure (use this one because that white line on Josh's side bothers me kdsgns)

[wraith gulch]

will do. and will credit you

[tough timber]

idk but "get out of the road" + "navigating my head" makes me think the road could be metaphor for the head/mind which would make it "get out of your head" or don't overthink in other words which fits with themes present in a lot of songs

[vale canyon]

[safe spade]

My brain must have erased verified when reading this bdjgksn that was a jumpscare

[wraith gulch]

Hahaha

[celest dust]

Haha and the yellow eyes! Seized!

[small turtle]

I do think the idea is that Josh is being ignored. I'm thinking of going through all the things for a theory that's been simmering in the back of my brain for a bit and laying them out in another thread, but the short version is just what a lot of people have been pointing out, which is that Josh is in the background, out of focus, in nearly all the videos (and even on the cover of the album, which is weird because it's the only front cover of one of their main albums that actually have the two of them on it). There's nothing about Clancy explicitly ignoring Torchbearer; he's there and Clancy isn't paying attention without even realizing he's not paying attention. It's a heavy focus on Josh, but it's a heavy focus on him not being there. Definitely calling attention to the fact that Clancy has gone a bit off the rails with his 'overcompensate' attitude to the fight.

And maybe this is just me, but I think that Clancy will remain the protagonist, yet will switch focus so that he isn't ignoring Torchbearer anymore.

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 2!

[wraith gulch]

the odd thing that is in opposition to that, which may follow your logic but I haven't put a lot of thought into it yet, is that josh has been the only one doing interviews post-release

but I do love what you're saying and think its important

[small turtle]

ok, yes, but I mean within the album--the music videos, mostly

[wraith gulch]

oh!

or!

like you said, it's like that within the album, but SINCE the album got released it's been all josh (officially) in interviews, symbolizing a transition like cyd is saying towards a torchbearer focus, whereas in clancy he was, quite literally, not in focus

[small turtle]

Yeah, I'm thinking more of Torchbearer Josh, not actual Josh

[wraith gulch]

I'm saying these ideas can be linked

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 22!

[small turtle]

though sometimes the line is a bit blurry, as with Tyler/Clancy 😂

[safe spade]

See I was going to mention at least with the music videos there still seems to be a weird focus on Josh at times, in Vigentte Tyler wears the "Josh' best friend" hoodie, and in the end, he was drawing his face, or the fact Josh has a bishop behind him in Routines

[wraith gulch]

hmm, interesting

[small turtle]

yeah. Well, perhaps they draw attention to Josh in some ways (Tyler's certainly paying attention to him) in order to draw attention to the fact that Clancy is not?? If that makes sense? Tyler is doing what Clancy should be doing?

[wraith gulch]

However, in overcompensate clancy draws attention to torchbearer?

[small turtle]

where

[wraith gulch]

I'm not arguing, btw, just exploring

When he stands up at the top of the stands and says "come up with Josh Dun" and points at torchbearer drumming

[safe spade]

OR the fact that I'm....PRETTY sure Shy Away Josh is waking him up at the end of Routines

[wraith gulch]

Oh snap, that is what he wore in Shy Away!

[small turtle]

fair point

[vale canyon]

Also the weird focuses on josh and his shadow too in the vignette mv

[safe spade]

which btw something is definitely written in his hair , I can see an E for sure

[small turtle]

FPE maybe? I can't actually tell but that's the first thing that came to mind

I'm not good at spying those things and I can't even see E so take that with a grain of salt

[safe spade]

I can see that!!

[vale canyon]

There

[small turtle]

thanks

[tough timber]

i don't care what's in your hair but actually if it says something i really do care

[vital arrow]

I’m thinking the same thing that the next album would be about torchbearers experience

[safe spade]

and maybe it starts out with Drag Path and goes from there

because what if all this "evidence" we have is from Clancy wanting Torch to find him??? idk

[fleet pier]

Are we cooking today?

[small turtle]

My interpretation is that Torch is going to have to find/save Clancy in some form and so maybe yes

[vital arrow]

I thought that was him too! Lex and were watching the video trying to figure that out

[safe spade]

the gray is to long to be the west he normally wears!!

[tough timber]

i like this thought and it gives them a good reason to delve deeper into who the banditos are and why they're fighting dema

[safe spade]

Also those last two notes in Clancy's journal makes me think Torch wrote them maybe 👀

[vital arrow]

You know I’ve never questioned the history of the banditos 🤔🔝

[tough timber]

bc the lore is a lot but as far as i know the only explanation is that the bishops use vialism to promote suicide so they can control the corpses/vessels but like... there's no explanation as to why the banditos are there

not a lot of explanation on dema's history or why it's organized the way it is either but i assume that's intentional and could be regarded as censorship within the city

someone mentioned that josh said something about switching focus from the antagonist to protagonist though i personally haven't seen where he said that i think someone mentioned it. maybe it means we've been focusing on dema and now we'll focus on the banditos more? idk

[safe spade]

I found a video of that yesterday

[tough timber]

what video is it 👀

[safe spade]

https://youtu.be/opDpD7grD8A?si=e284A4MHBiFytQdI&t=159

[safe spade]

Oh and the PS teaser the blinking was morse for Josh's initals

[safe spade]

Hmmmm this makes me think about this picture

[tough timber]

he's so careful about saying the story is ending not ended I feel like the verb tenses are important here lol

[safe spade]

Clancy shielding Torch basically

[tough timber]

there's not been a huge amount of interviews but i need someone to ask them actual, direct lore questions when they do more interviews

[lean mango]

Yea, there's been barely anything

[patent coral]

Just rewatched the Zane Lowe interviews for Trench and Sai and was reminded how indirect this era has been for being the so called “straight up” album cycle

[lean mango]

Something is definitely up, they're back to the complete silence

[patent coral]

We’ve never been this disconnected from the band in a long time, besides the album livestream. They’re more present in some ways but also much more distant in the ways we care most about it seems

I agree it seems intentional

[lean mango]

And the hiatus, but that goes without saying

[patent coral]

For me all signs point to 2025 being the year for more music and answers, but the lack of promotion is the biggest thing that makes me raise an eyebrow at this point. If they’re just taking time off before tour that’s totally fine, but why aren’t they just posting low effort MV clips on socials or doing interviews or seemingly promoting Clancy in any way in the meantime???

Like are they just not going to post anything until mid august? That seems unlikely to me…

[lean mango]

I mean, I've said it before but to me this silence seems like evidence for something soon, rather than against it

[patent coral]

I agree

[lean mango]

Because it's definitely abnormal and not something they can really keep up for a year in the middle of an active era

[patent coral]

But time is running out to promote a whole second half of an album or launch an ARG (which seems likely to end the story with since that’s how it all began)

I just hope it doesn’t feel rushed if it is pre tour

[lean mango]

I see two options personally

One is a double album shadow drop, tho they've kind of passed the point where it will have the most impact if they intend to do that, a lot of the hype is going away now that so many people are convinced of 2025

Or we'll get the beginning of something which will start a slow rollout until next year and at least answer the question of what will happen

Tho I don't see them announcing anything directly and then taking a whole year for it to be out

Usually rollouts are like 3 months even for a full album

[patent coral]

Slow moving ARG until 2025 would be fun honestly

[lean mango]

Ye, agreed

[patent coral]

That’s the only way that timeline would make sense to me

[lean mango]

I still love the idea of a second album where one track is revealed each month and has to be found in an ARG

And then it gets a proper release at the end

[patent coral]

That would be so sick

[lean mango]

But I don't really see them releasing music during a tour because then they either need to not play it, or only some people get to hear

[patent coral]

As fun as their ARGs have been there’s still so much untapped potential with this storyline and the medium of ARGs with a dedicated fanbase

[long rose]

I think what realistically they could do is reveal one more song and say 2025 so then they can reveal that there is more to be revealed but not now.

[patent coral]

Imagine interactive real life locations, or moments on tour like the “you never wear blue” tweets, or more cryptic websites or accounts to flesh out the world (maybe like an official bulletin from Dema to the citizens)

Even the fake Church of Vialism calls were such a cool idea to build stakes and re-engage the fanbase with the storyline. Right now theory’s are just dead in the water and there’s still so much to unravel

The aura of mystery for me is the most fun part with how they’ve told this story, but that’s only true when we’re getting bits of solid world building information we have to figure out instead of radio silence and trying to find a code in every tweet

[jade mantle]

Surprise songs each stop let’s gooooo

[tough timber]

surprise we meant 300 tracks literally

[tame trout]

okay dudes I got a reply back from the merch store. maybe we’re just insane but nothing really suspicious about it.

But hey there is a 10% off coupon if anyone wants it.

[teal compass]

Omg it’s Michele

Me and them go way back /s

Singlehandedly propping up the twenty one pilots merch store

In my head there’s just one Warner intern managing the merch stores for 368 artists and that’s why the responses take so long

[tame trout]

should I let them know you say hello? 😂

[small turtle]

I've been thinking about that. I think they either need to do that or they need to drop all the songs but not the MVs and add the MVs throughut the year so that the very end is released next June. Either way I don't want all the MVs at once again. I want to keep the hype/theorizing going!

[tough timber]

fr what are we gonna do when the story actually ends 😳

[small turtle]

cry

[tough timber]

haha i think this band just makes me cry no matter what tho

[small turtle]

Fair. But I didn't get into lore until last month. I've missed a lot. But I've had so much fun. I can't take it ending right as I was getting into the core of the story.

Like I was vaguely aware of the lore

But not really

[tough timber]

honestly same, i was aware of the storyline we see in the mvs but i hadn't really dug deep into the letters and all the stuff going on outside of the songs and mvs

i knew the characters and had an idea of the plot but I've never looked at the details as close as I am now

[small turtle]

I knew there was this place called Trench and it was an allegory for depression and there was an evil city and that was about it

Before this spring I was more into pre-Trench stuff anyway

[tough timber]

yeah i knew who blurryface was and that blurry = nico and that there were other bishops but I don't think I even knew the other bishops had names until recently lol

i didn't know about dmaorg or the clancy letters or much else prior to this album cycle

[small turtle]

a couple months ago I was listening once again to the limited loop of TOP songs I liked, then 'Goner' came on autoplay and I was like...that's incredible. So I went back and listened to everything again. I didn't even know Clancy was coming out until then; I'd been out of the loop for awhile. I fell deeply, madly in love with everything TOP. (I had been in love with some of it, to be clear.)

[tame trout]

I thought the bishops names have been canon since blurryface/trench?

[small turtle]

yes but if you're not paying attention you don't know!

[tame trout]

ah sorry I didn’t realize what the context was before my message

[tough timber]

yeah it happened similarly for me, i first started listening to them right before blurryface came out but i just wasn't really following the finer points of the lore closely bc i was unaware there was more happening "off camera" (also i definitely slept on sai when it originally came out but i love all the albums)

[vital arrow]

I didn’t get into lore until this year, I feel the same, I don’t want it to end yet 😥 this album feels really special to me after dealing with bad depression earlier this year

[small turtle]

Tbh when I first got into TOP I couldn't listen to half their stuff bc I was too close to coming off a depressive episode and I needed to wait until it didn't hit so hard in a bad way. now I use it as a kind of catharsis, a way to process, and it's been really healing. But I needed to wait until I had not been dealing with suicidal ideation for like...five years...before I could handle the half of their music that deals explicitly with that stuff. For some reason now sitting alone and learning to rap 'Migraine' is amazing--it's like leeching poison from my body. The first time I heard that song (2020) I had a panic attack at the first mention of suicide and had to turn it off. But this is what TOP is about at its core. Facing it instead of running away. Learning to live with the scars. This is why it is so now important to me to see this story finished--either with Nico defeated or some way of showing acceptance, a 'truce', I'm not strongly on one side or the other because I think either could work. All I know is I can't just have it end with 'you decide who won'.

sooo...I need more musiic and that is why I so committed to this double album thing

[vital arrow]

I was going through bad ideation, to the point of an attempt and hospital stay. For me, hearing someone else talk about it, and relating with me really helped. I felt all alone at the time as well.
Snap back and next semester hit hard as an anthem to myself to carry on.
Plus connecting with all the Tøp fans
🥰 much love to anyone going through it.

I’ve been a passive fan all these years it feels like 😅 I really missed out previous lore

[small turtle]

To be honest i think Paladin Strait was a lure to the lore for a lot of people

it was for me

(connecting with the fans is amazing too)

[devout mango]

I believe that Clancy is a story of acceptance. Because my theory is that Clancy is an album actually written in the perspective of Nico trying to destroy vialism from within. "I don't care you control me leading me anywhere" -backslide (I think Clancy is being controlled by Nico) "it's reassuring you keep coming around, it's tough to find good company"..., "just keep me company" routines in the night (Nico talking to Clancy [and Clancy symbolizing to Nico the end of vialism and freedom from the cycle]). "It's a tribute to zombies of which I've become" -vignette and also "no not me it's for a friend denial" -vignette (Nico is denying that the album if really about him). "This haze around my face makes me feel all alone" -navigating (the black makeup and clear face coverings if the bishops) "when our fingers touch I feel my way back home" -navigating (Nico talking to Clancy) "now I'm trying to hold onto you cause everybody leaves" -navigating (again Nico talking to Clancy saying everybody leaves [vialism] and he wants to told onto his hope or the weapon or tool he's using to break free). "If I'm gonna snap necks then I gotta snap back" snap back (edgy for Tyler/Clancy but makes sense for Nico). "Used to be you and me matching Kawasaki Z's riding round 270 in Kawasaki tees, two fighter jets matching energy trying to forget that we're in ejection seats" -at the risk of feeling dumb (I think this is Nico possibly talking to another bishop [possibly his dad who I believe to be Andre] and the ejection seats is referring to vialism and then lastly for now I believe that paladin strait is written in the present future tense despite Clancy already having crossed the strait at that point because it's actually being sang by Clancy and he's not really there at the fight

^^ It goes way deeper than this for me but obv I just wrote a lot 💀

[tame tendon]

Then describe the end of the paladin strait MV

[devout mango]

Acceptance

[tough timber]

i was pretty sheltered growing up and not raised in an environment where i was comfortable talking about mental health (to clarify my family is p good but not open about mental struggles at alllll) but started dealing with anxiety and depression as a teenager. more or less just suffering in silence hoping it would disappear on its own one day. i found tøp in high school and honestly it was just nice to hear something that reflected some of what i was feeling. I'm 27 now and still have some of the same stuff going on but it sort of ebbs and flows and I like to think I'm better at handling than I was back then but there's still bad moments. I've also dealt with some passive si off and on and even not being actively suicidal it's honestly just helpful to hear that someone else has felt the same and understands and didn't go through with it and saying they got through it if that makes sense. anyways this album has been so interesting bc it seems like they're of course still dealing with a lot of the same stuff but what struck me in the livestream was how at peace tyler seems rn and that gives me even more hope that even if the mental health stuff never fully goes away I'll/we'll learn to cope even better and it'll be less prominent af least

@small turtle @vital arrow thanks for kicking off the group therapy session ❤️

[tame tendon]

Who’s talking to Clancy

[vital arrow]

I got that feeling from Tyler on the livestream as well, it’s very comforting, much love ❤️

[devout mango]

Oh ya ok it's because they are 1 and their journey of acceptance leads to the same place at the end of the paladin strait mv. They both want to destroy vialism (for different reasons)

[olive plume]

the only thing i don’t get is why nico would want to destroy vialism when it was a religion he created?

[tame tendon]

But also why is Nico taking Clancy back to Dema in jumpsuit and throughout trench

[safe spade]

Speaking of this again I saw this video on twitter and it actually fits into alot of what we've seen saying https://fxtwitter.com/atrofdowner/status/1806126828912021547

[devout mango]

The way I see it Nico hates vialism. "Gnawing on the bishops, claw away at their system repeating simple phrases someone holy insisted"-doubt (I believe this is Nico speaking as well, growing up in vialism as depicted in the Andre photo with the child called "self"). Did Nico create vialism?

[tame tendon]

Also lyrics to morph “that Nicolas bourbaki…”

[vale canyon]

blasphemy there?

[devout mango]

The way I see it Nico is always there begging for forgiveness and help through the lyrics "this beat is a chemical" -chlorine (the beat is a chemical because the story they are telling will lead to Dema's and vialism's [and by extention Nico's] demise.)

[vital arrow]

Attaching the Andre (& Nico) pic that lex is talking about. Andre Viel had a child named Nico

[proven harbor]

One theory about this is that the child is Simone Weil

[safe spade]

🤨 Blasphemy?

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message

[proven harbor]

Interesting

[devout mango]

Actually I'll do you one better (don't hate me) 💀 #1213244361320439828 message

[proven harbor]

It’s a cool theory I like it

[waxen meteor]

@safe spade can someone help me find the original source of the idea that the clique missed something during the trench era? ive heard this multiple times from different sources but have no idea where it came from

[safe spade]

Let me get looking!

[waxen meteor]

(i pinged you bc you also mentioned it last night, nw if you have no idea)

[vale canyon]

https://youtu.be/TAmInvloe_s?si=ZdwjnudAR8KNFMQX

[vale canyon]

Let her cook

[safe spade]

Let me ping @viral quail as well. I legit cant remember

[devout mango]

Also says "has no friends close (he hates vialism but he's a bishop so he has no friends close) but those who know him most know what he goes by Nico he told me I'm a copy" I think that Nico is saying to Clancy that Clancy [the idea] can be replaced with anyone cause Clancy [the idea] is that of hope and Nico is going to use Clancy to end vialism

[viral quail]

Apparently Tyler mentioned it in an interview I’ll have to have a sus and see if I can find it

[devout mango]

https://youtu.be/JdBs1jk0JRA?si=Xm9oz0D9ncsnIguf

[viral quail]

@safe spade @waxen meteor

#theories message

That’s where I saw this idea first

[safe spade]

Yay! Ok I knew I wasnt tripping about that

[viral quail]

Okay now I’ve got a lot of chat catching up to do since I just woke up

[devout mango]

Did you see my silly nonsense? 💀

[devout mango]

Starts here 👀

[viral quail]

Yeah I see what you mean I think there is some parts written by Nico (unsigned letters) also the possibility that in the cycles where Clancy loses Nico takes over

[devout mango]

I think I saw you cooking earlier in digital remains theory (but for some reason I can't send messages there) I was trying to say I agree with you that we're looking for Clancy

[viral quail]

Okay just read all the messages and there was fr some cooking going on

I like what you guys have been putting down

(Also the whole badlands, Halsey, ghost thing killed me those 2 albums were such a corner stone of early high school and the parallels are terrifying)

[vital arrow]

I found that hilarious as well

[devout mango]

Condensed version: I believe the new album is a story of acceptance. And I believe it has two parts to it, pretty much Clancy's journey to defeating vialism and Dema and Nico's story of doing the same thing. Because I believe Nico hates vialism and wants to destroy it from within (claw our way up their system) so he uses Clancy to help do it.

[devout mango]

I had tried sending this version in DR earlier and I forgot I can't send there, but I hadn't deleted yet so here it is

[lean mango]

ok, so new double album theory

it's kind of sus that they still haven't announced any opener for the tour but they also haven't said there won't be one

It's just over a month until tour, you'd think we'd have head one way or another

so what if an announcement that there will be no opener will coincide with a double album announcement

they don't want to reveal one before the other because it might make either one too obvious

double album ofc needs more time to be able to play a lot of new music while still playing plenty of old music too

and having no opener on a headline tour has never happened with them before afaik, so of course that'd be suspicious if they want to keep a double album absolutely secret until it's announced

[viral quail]

Interesting take it’s sus that we haven’t had an opener announcement yet

[long rose]

In general the silence they have been doing feels sus

[viral quail]

It’s insane to me the lack of interaction or promotion for the album/tour
This has been discussed before but is it because WE are missing something but if that’s the case either they have deadline for us to find it or they would have given us a clue if not

Ty just lurking watching us explode

[lean mango]

I just don't think it's possible that it's all because we're missing something

he's said before that if people don't catch on and it's important, they'll be pointed in the right direction

and we've seen that in action

but most importantly, I don't think he'd make their promo strategy rely on us finding something, to the point that it actually gets severely delayed if we don't catch it

It feels like something huge is brewing

and the silence may literally be because they're spending so much time working on finishing touches and trying to get it done in time that they have no more energy to focus on anything else

[olive plume]

Where Is Zane Lowe

[waxen meteor]

they're ghosting us : " )

(not really but it fits the hidden msg in the setlist...)

[waxen meteor]

i still would love a double album, but it seems absolutely insane that they would drop an entire second album less than 4 weeks before the first show and then tour with it. if they do release stuff before the end of the tour, personally i think itll be a waterfall release of multiple singles rather than a whole album at once

[lean mango]

I don't think they can realistically release anything during tour because of course people would want them to play the songs on tour, and then people who happen to be in the earliest cities just don't get to hear those ones

But I don't actually think a whole album is that unrealistic

it's fairly common for bands to release albums right before tour, like just a few days before

and TOP did with Trench and Blurryface

[waxen meteor]

ARG can coincide with a tour! someone linked an example in this server or another theory server a while back

[lean mango]

actually I think the Blurryface tour started just before the official release

[waxen meteor]

the artist used the tour to distribute some physical clues that were necessary to solve the ARG

[lean mango]

I think the less realistic aspect is how they do promo in that case, but to be honest, it would probably promote itself, especially if they don't plan for it to have as many radio singles

otherwise, fans are locked in for whatever's coming already, and they're in the middle of an era so casual listeners will probably be just as locked in as they normally are

(aka they'll see it and maybe check it out when they feel like it, they're probably not anxiously waiting release day anyway)

[waxen meteor]

i didnt know this, thats wild

[lean mango]

At the very least, Overcompensate isn't that old and if they make Routines In The Night a single in a few weeks, TOP will be fresh for the casual listeners anyway

[sly hazel]

TOP themselves have done this for half of their albums
Both BF and Trench were released a few days before the tour officially started

[safe spade]

I went to one of the first couple shows after Trench dropped! They at least they gave us a good few weeks to learn all the words 😅

[lean mango]

Let's be real, a lot of us will be listening enough to learn all the words in like a week anyway

[waxen meteor]

im a baby clikkie (in all but my actual age)

right, if they dropped an album tonight id know all the lyric by tomorrow morning

[safe spade]

True! The way Ive had to force myself to stop listening to Clancy cuz Im falling behind on album for other artists they truly did THAT with Clancy

[lean mango]

ye lol

[viral quail]

My question exactly

[vital arrow]

Oh same, I feel kinda bored listening to my other stuff lol, but hiatus kaiyote (sp?) released an album as well 🫶

[viral quail]

I started binge listening to top before Clancy came out and since it’s release it’s been non stop listening to them and I’m still not bored but now it’s tough for me to break out of this cycle 😏 and listen to other artists I love because I don’t get that same feeling that top gives me

I could be wrong but it feels weird to me for them to give us an album and then give us more music within a short amount of time after the album released
Contradicting that but I have seen this mentioned but we have still got time this era for more content usually mv releases but we have gotten all the mv straight of the bat so

Lots of compensating 😏 to make the SAI hatters happy (even though we got the livestream experience which was sick)

Either way I’m just insanely pumped to see them again seeing as Aus hasn’t had any shows since trench

[lean mango]

I'm surprised so many people see it that way tbh, double albums aren't the most typical thing but they're not that uncommon either

They're just not something TOP has ever done yet

[signal spruce]

I emailed them earlier today just straight up asking if Goner being left off is an accident and they haven’t replied 👀

I got the email that they have received my request but no response from a person like you got

[tame trout]

Oooo im curious what they say to you or if you’ll get the same kind of generic reply

[signal spruce]

Same! I’ll keep y’all updated

[lean mango]

Y'know, it's possible that whoever is in charge wasn't told if it was intentional, depends on if the support person is also in charge of that

[signal spruce]

Definitely possible! But I imagine if it’s supposed to be that way there’s some message to leave it that way, and that if it’s an accident they might want to fix it

[lean mango]

What I'd imagine would happen is whoever is actually in charge of the listing would know but wouldn't say

so they'd receive the report and say they'll "look into it" or something and then never do anything

[signal spruce]

Yeah if it’s meant to be that way I definitely don’t think they’d tell us directly, but if it’s an accident they might? And then we’d know for sure it’s nothing

And if they don’t say anything at all, I’ve not wasted anything

[waxen meteor]

this is really interesting, and i feel like you could maybe draw a parallel with Keons also turning against vialism in the SAI era, though off the top of my head idk how much lyric evidence you could find for that (surely some in choker)

i wonder if theres any evidence for this theory in the behavior of the BF account and the PS teaser video, since BF gave that to us

[devout mango]

Thx I will look into this!

[devout mango]

Do you have the list of accounts bf blocked? I know we think they were getting too close, but is it possible that he was blocking dema related accounts actually?

[viral quail]

#lore-updates message

[devout mango]

Thank you!

[devout mango]

Ok I haven't taken a look at the teaser again yet and it's hard to remember it with the current details in mind I'm thinking about. So I'll get to that but I just had a crazy realization!! So in the Scaled and Icy Livestream (and at the concerts) they put the colorful hosts from the promos on the screen and did the part linked here https://youtu.be/RJYrEBCdJ94?si=IVnr5oGw8smkHgyU RIGHT BEFORE LANE BOY. And yesterday when listening to Lane Boy I thought of the part where he says "if it was our way we'd have a tempo change every other time change" and how it could relate to the page in DR with the overcompensate lyrics "when the beat changes 120-95 I come alive"

[vale canyon]

So good

[devout mango]

And if some people are right about their theories that we are actually to be looking for Clancy or something like that this could also line up 👀 cause my answer: Nico's story is told through Clancy [album] begs for a question where's Clancy? So we have something (or someone) to find

[devout mango]

But that's just another lil nugget I was thinking 💀

[viral quail]

Also the beginning of this talking about the efficiency of dema reminded me of this #1252689799597392014 message

About drag path

[devout mango]

Makes me think drag path could be a clue about the delayed release of [whatever we're looking for]. Because the time it takes us to find the clues can effect many things and they can't be sure when we'll find it. "Critical path drag is the amount of time that an activity or constraint [puzzle maybe 🤔] on the critical path is adding to the project duration

[vale canyon]

Yup, but, there's 2 delays we can expect, the float which is a delay that doesn't affect the critical path duration, but there's drag which does affect the critcal path duration.

The first mention about drag path was in the i am clancy video. He talks about how nico every time he captures him, he walks across a drag path to dema, but the drag path we see in jumpsuit changes, cause of the banditos, delaying the actual critical path

I can't wrap my head around a more substantial evidence than this particular connection. There could be a use to the ecuation of the critical drag path but idk really

[devout mango]

Ok I'm listening to everything as if I am Nico now (not intentionally) (am I Nico?) and y'all should give No Chances a listen as Nico. Bishops saying 'no chances' while Nico tells Clancy "want you home in one piece now"..., "we get bodies every day" 😭

[viral quail]

Yeah I’ve done that before with a few songs and it really does make you think oh shiiiiiit

[vale canyon]

In that part you can hear "run away, run away"

[viral quail]

I mean most a lot of the songs on blurryface are switch perspective from blurry/nico to Clancy which always gets me

[devout mango]

OK OK now listening to redecorate, it got me thinking "who's she?" "She's not afraid of her reflection just of what she might see behind it" Then I remembered there's actually a couple songs that go along with my theory that have a mysterious "she" (vignette off the top of my head) "hope that she would agree". Idk right now my mind is jumping to Simone veil for the she but I'm not sure where that leads

[viral quail]

Yessss I was thinking this the other day but pushed it aside

[gloomy hedge]

i got a reply from the store…did not address my concern at all…

[devout mango]

Nico saying he's going to break the cycle of vialism in half because I believe his dad to be Andre (referenced earlier somewhere) with the picture of Andre and the kid in the Clancy journals labeled self

[olive plume]

andre is also one of the bishops, and as far as we’ve seen, the bishops’ true forms all appear to be the same age. do you think andre is somehow considerably older than the other bishops in order to have a son of that age?

and i thought the kid in the journal was implied to be clancy, and that’s why the photo is labeled as “self” in his journal. how would that be nico?

[vital arrow]

It made more sense to me that would be Nico pictured with Andre.. he could’ve been raised into it. It was mentioned that Andre had a child named Nico, but someone said it was Nicolette?
That’s where we drew the connection…. Clancy mentioned in a letter that they are in their second life (the bishops, wielding the power the NED’s gave) he’s wondering how he can wield it in his “first life”

[olive plume]

i just took that as the bishops have prolonged their lives due to seizing so many people and probably harvesting their souls in some way

nico is implied also to be the creator of vialism too since he’s the leader of the bishops. the bishops are trying to say the city is much older than it is, most likely as a manipulation tactic for their citizens to trust in their system since it’s been in place for so long so why should anything about it be changed since it’s been working all this time—but in I Am Clancy, clancy says he knows his friends are rolling their eyes at him for saying that because the city in itself is only as old as the bishops, since they started it after hijacking the original religion

so the only people who really grew up under vialism are the current citizens, including clancy. the bishops were already there from the start

[tough timber]

i have been trying (with very limited success) to wrap my mind around topology and with that fresh on my mind "breaking the cycle in half" is sticking out to me bc everything I've read about topology so far has said stuff about not "tearing" or "gluing" points in a shape

but breaking the cycle sounds like tearing a circle? but I don't understand the math concepts well enough to make any sense of that thought lol

[devout mango]

This reminds mw, i wanna make a list of songs that reference PIECES . that might tie in

[tough timber]

hmmm yeah there's a lot of those

i just need someone to explain all the bourbaki and math stuff to me bc i keep looking for connections there and don't understand it well enough to actually get very far 🫠

[devout mango]

I'm listening to Good Day and in the beginning before the song starts there are birds chirping. I'm wondering if that can tie into the reason they took the birds chirping out of paladin strait!? Could sai actually take place during that time or something? What could it MEAN 💀

[devout mango]

This ❤️

[vital arrow]

Yess, we’ve been talking about that, and I keep forgetting to look into it

[drifting mortar]

I don’t think so. While I doubt the connection is meaningless, the “I am Clancy” video talks about the timeline of events and SAI explicitly comes before “I am Clancy” which is the direct predecessor to overcompensate and the actual album

[devout mango]

I believe Nico made that video. Because, among other reasons, I believe that's why the letter was typed (as opposed to hand written) on the screen during that video. My whole theory revolves around Nico singing Clancy [album], so that ties in perfectly 🥵

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message explanation starts here 👀

[quartz sphinx]

I think so too!

[quartz sphinx]

That’s really a bizarre response. Or is it a clue? Like if anyone asks about the weird vinyl listing, send them DR. 🤔

[waxen meteor]

halsey opening for clancy tour confirmed (/joke)

[safe spade]

Ngl if she was still in her last album era now.....I could see it

[waxen meteor]

other people who emailed support got totally diff reponses

like ive seen at least 3 diff people and they all got a reponse like "sorry this is out stock idk when itll be back, heres a discount code"

huge brain if so many people started emailing store support, that store support contact the boys, who told them to start directing ppl to digital remains 😂 maybe someone else should contact support to check

ohhh wait im realizing i misread your original support ticket, i thought it was about the blurryface vinyl listing not clancy

[quartz sphinx]

It wasn’t me it was puffpuffTrash but it was about blurryface vinyl. I think it was one of the international stores though because it said there was a 404 error and didn’t seem to mention goner missing.

Oh shoot I do see now it says Clancy. I thought it was about the weird bf vinyl.

[drifting mortar]

Hmmm 🤔 I see your theory and I raise you to this: Nico is always signified as the deep voice (e.g. stressed out outro, fairly local pre chorus, etc) and along with that, if Nico sings the album why is overcompensate there? It’s very clearly a rebellious track on the album

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah I inquired about the standard Clancy black vinyl and the 404 page. Like, you should be able to purchase a standard vinyl. It’s not sold out (unlike the BF standard black) when I filled out the request, I put my order number as “21” bc I had to fill in an order number . I did purchase the DR but I didn’t link that order number.

Someone who didn’t purchase the DR should try to contact the store and see if they just send them the files

But yeah, totally avoided the question and pushed the DR 🤷🏽

[gloomy hedge]

Correct my support request was for Clancy not Blurryface Standard Black Vinyl

[devout mango]

1. There are plenty of low voices in Clancy (like in backslide when he's talking to the boy) 2. In stressed out and fairly local I think there's definitely more Nico talking in there than we once thought. Because I think (and I'll look for the link to this cause I've talked about it) that Nico hates vialism and that Clancy and Nico's stories intertwine. Nico and Clancy's stories of destroying dema from different perspectives and for different reasons. Coming together in paladin strait as a story of acceptance . And so ya that explains the overcompensate question too. Nico is rebelling as well 🥹

[devout mango]

Also I really appreciate any questions, helps me pick this theory apart too and really understand it 😁

[waxen meteor]

ive been playing with the idea that in one or more albums, there are multiple singers -- similar to how the black parade has multiple characters (which is not at all obvious without looking deeply) and you can tell which one is which by the details like the instruments, way they sing, etc.

but i havent taken a hard look at the albums in this light

(reference for the black parade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfUgBbuSTPQ -- definitely a great watch for brainstorming ideas for analyzing TOP albums)

[celest dust]

No nudging towards the DR! I did sent a follow-up thanking them and asking about Goner missing from the tracklist, will send update when I get one (also, starting to feel bad for support now hahaha)

I was also wondering if the discount code is a clue since some other people got the same one, but I tried it without ordering and it does give a 10% discount as promised

[devout mango]

Sorry what do you mean no nudging towards the DR (just to make sure I don't do anything I'm not supposed to)

[small turtle]

I could do that and see what happens : )

What exactly should I ask about?

[celest dust]

It looked liked this user was 'nudged' towards the DR after inquiring about the vinyl, but it was a false alarm (would have been a cool clue): #1213244361320439828 message

[devout mango]

Ok thanks for clearing that up 🙏🏽

[signal spruce]

Well that’s suspicious 👀👀👀

They got back to me from when I directly asked if Goner is left out on purpose or is some kind of listing accident

[celest dust]

Support working overtime this week 🤣

[signal spruce]

True, I kind of feel bad for them 😂

It’s not THEIR fault we’re crazy, it’s the boys 😭

[proven harbor]

Idk if you want to post the code on here couldn’t someone just steal it

[small turtle]

where exactly can you hear that? (I got that it's about No Chances)

[lean mango]

I hear this, was just actually going to come here to say this

[signal spruce]

We’ve all been posting the replies and they all have the same discount code 😂 you’re welcome to use it

[lean mango]

But when listening from the perspective of a bishop, almost sounds like they're saying "we want you home in one piece" because they can't glorify vialism if the person is dead by something else besides themselves

[proven harbor]

Ohh lol

[waxen meteor]

could i convicne you to reply thanking them and ask if the descriptions come directly from the band? (or something like that)

[small turtle]

Yes, it very much sounds like the Bishops are threatening Clancy/citizens of Dema--there's no chance to get away, lots of other people are committing to Vialism so you should too (we get bodies every day) and we want you home in one piece because otherwise we can't use your body. I don't think it's actually 'Nico talking'--Clancy is supposed to have written that album in captivity, and I think that song (among others) is supposed to show him beginning to fight the control and find ways to slip in an anti-Bishop message, by showing how controlling and evil they are, writing as though he were talking from a Bishop perspective...but I do wonder how he got away with it.

[quartz sphinx]

I kind of thought “we get bodies every day / we want you home in one piece now / run away run away” was Tyler talking to us, like hang in there, the bishops are coming for you but we’re also coming to help you. But this take makes a lot of sense too.

[signal spruce]

Sure! I already thanked them for their time but can reply again

[small turtle]

hmmm. I hadn't thought of that, but I suppose that could work too.

I mean, there's nothing saying it can't work on multiple levels

[signal spruce]

I always thought this too! Especially with how the voice singing that is so much clearer and higher than the deep voice for the bishops- it sounds like Tyler and the banditos telling us to make it out, but to be careful how we do

[celest dust]

How did you get the location? Put together pieces?
They say they sell the information in those terms of agreement

reminds me of someone saying that we should check the privacy policy and terms on the TOP homepage for clues/hints

[gloomy hedge]

You should try. Everyone else got sorry BF is sold out and discount codes in regards to questions about BF black vinyl. Mine was to inquire about the 404 page when trying to purchase Clancy standard black vinyl (not sold out). In response I received the digital remains download, nothing addressing the 404 or stock of Clancy. Also no discount code lol

[lean mango]

I think that's the more straightforward intended meaning but it might be a double meaning

[small turtle]

I am beginning to think a double meaning is likely

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message #1213244361320439828 message https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213244361320439828/1258016532575817791/remix-2006325d-5376-4934-b36a-d0377dfd4e15.png?ex=668682b2&is=66853132&hm=f7f2b707e6760efbc3731065d8ca5d69bf51415cf973f839206b5a779e41bd01& Condensed version: I believe the new album is a story of acceptance. And I believe it has two parts to it, pretty much Clancy's journey to defeating vialism and Dema and Nico's story of doing the same thing. Because I believe Nico hates vialism and wants to destroy it from within (claw our way up their system) so he uses Clancy to help do it.

@small turtle I think the lyrics in No Chances are low voices = bishops and regular voice = Nico. Nico telling Clancy he wants him home "in one piece now" cause "we get bodies every day" and the bishops saying "no chances"

[lean mango]

How do you explain the ending of Paladin if Nico is on Clancy's side?

[fleet pier]

Are we cooking today double album believers?

[sudden hawk]

looks like it's in the crockpot but nobody knows what it'll end up being

[gloomy hedge]

poor support! i hope they get to sign off soon for the long holiday weekend in the states

[quartz sphinx]

That’s a perfect description 👩🏻‍🍳

[small turtle]

Yeah, that would be my question too. Generally speaking people don't reach out and grab their allies' throats...

[remote trail]

standard customer support intelligence level. I have messaged so much customer support the past 4 months getting similar dumb as fuck, unhelpful responses: ticketmaster, the O2 arena, warner music, new look etc. I explain in extremely clear detail and get the most random automated responses that aren't relevant at all to the situation at hand.

sorry that was a bit of a rabbit hole

[olive plume]

especially nico choking him like that and clancy’s determined don’t-mess-with-me expression at the end. that doesn’t read as acceptance of any kind to me

it was a popular theory that nico and clancy would meld into one being at the end of this as a metaphor for tyler accepting all aspects of himself but it looks like clancy isn’t going to go quietly. and i struggle to see a “truce” ending too, given the ending of paladin

[long rose]

The same for me, at least my theory is that THAT look of Clancy to Nico is more of like: Oh you know I am Not in your control anymore, and you know this ain't gonna end well for any of us right now.

Or at least that would answer my hope that Nico will show one last time why he's the damn antagonist of the story before the final push towards the end (whatever that is).

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 7!

[flat hawk]

I work in these kind of stuff for pretty big artists, I assure you customer support has no idea about these things, unless they're fans; it's a third party company that is managing support. at best, they're being taught 1-2 scripts store specific

...my reply has nothing to do with what you said but I couldn't reply in verified and felt the need to say this

[tame tendon]

I was scrolling thru catching up but skimming and saw that people were talking abt the blurry face vinyl. I should bring up as an owner of one that you can change what circles are colored are not bc the colors can be shifted

[small turtle]

Yeah...A) Acceptance or a 'truce' of some form could probably be developed with more music and videos, but I don't think there's any way they're on the same side right now. Nico hasn't acted like he's against Vialism or on Clancy's side. Nico has repeatedly dragged Clancy back to his suicide cult, held him prisoner, used him as propaganda, mocked him, and generally just been a horrible presence in Clancy's life. B) As far as the allegory is concerned, I struggle with how it makes sense that the guy who represents insecurity, fear, and self-destructive tendencies is the one trying to...destroy itself? Like I know all metaphors eventually break down and can never be a perfect one to one with real life, but I don't know how that could be applied to how people process their mental health problems. In my book Nico either has to be defeated or Clancy has to learn to live with him around, but Nico's not the good guy in this situation.

But feel free to argue with me; I'm not trying to shut anyone down! (I know I can come across as quite strong and argumentative when I was just trying to express an opinion.)

[devout mango]

I call it "acceptance" 🥹

[devout mango]

like I said I think their stories come together at the end. Clancy defeating vialism and Nico doing the same through Clancy

[lean mango]

I still don't see how that explains the throat grabbing

[devout mango]

I can see acceptance when he looks the scary thing he's been fighting for over a decade right in the eyes (not backing down)

[devout mango]

I go into all this. I think from the very beginning Nico actually hates vialism. I believe him to be the son of Andre (references in the picture called "self" in the Clancy journals.) And I view many many songs from the whole entire saga as actually songs where Nico is crying out for help too. In Stressed out, I believe Blurry (Nico) to be saying "my names Blurryface and I care what you think". And I think that Nico represents Clancy's fears as well as his strengths "the beat is a chemical" -chlorine , "rust is on the rim drink it anyway I cut my lip. Isn't what I want. Blood is on my tongue, I cut my lip" -cut my lip

[devout mango]

I don't call it arguing bc we're the FPE and we're all in this together. Not trying to make anyone mad, I'm just gonna be really excited about this theory cause it's really scratching the good itch for me right now 😅

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message this plus the pic before it for more if my supporting evidence that Nico is Clancy [album]. This attachment explains what I mean by "the picture labeled self in the Clancy journals" I believe this to be Nico (ask me why) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213244361320439828/1257828026318585876/IMG_0704.png?ex=668724a2&is=6685d322&hm=9232199a960cb8c832adccb2f2a3b9cecbd28c97b2a27236fd0d173ca015e0cc& and if you wanna see mostly what I've said about this so far #1213244361320439828 message

[devout mango]

To go along with this: in Fairly Local, there are 2 verses. They're basically exact opposites of each other, and we can likely agree that 1 is Blurry (Nico) and the other is Tyler (Clancy). "I'm evil to the core what I shouldn't do I will they say I'm emotional what I wanna save I'll kill" that's Nico and it's interesting that he says he "wants to save" anyone/anything if hes truly evil. But let's say he hates vialism and wants to end it 👀 ...ok then we have "I'm not evil to the core what I shouldn't do I will fight they say I'm emotional what I wanna save I will try" and that's Clancy. They're both sides of the SAME COIN . Alright. Now. I also have another interesting tidbit that Yall have probably noticed: Tyler's hands and throat are black in all Clancy mvs (excluding Lavish). This can also support the theory that Nico is there the whole time!! (And idk, maybe thats what Tyler wanted us to see in Lavish with the tweet, the fact that it's not painted)

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 5!

[devout mango]

And I just realized while rereading this message that "what I wanna save I'll kill" could be because Nico is being forced to practice vialism! Cause the way I see it Nico hates vialism. "Gnawing on the bishops, claw away at their system repeating simple phrases someone holy insisted"-doubt (I believe this is Nico speaking as well, growing up in vialism as depicted in the Andre photo with the child)

@quasi pasture yooo is this you from YT? i just saw your video, life-changing!

[quartz sphinx]

Hey Max. The discussion about the bf vinyl is concerning a sus listing on the store. It’s missing goner in the track list (remember Tyler also left goner off his list of songs). It also shows as a single LP though it wouldn’t be able to fit on one vinyl (unless a song was missing). And finally the image has words on it unlike all the others. https://store.twentyonepilots.com/products/blurryface-black-vinyl

[quasi pasture]

hi!! yes it is! thank you so much for the support haha, i really appreciate it :’)

[devout mango]

Oh absolutely I'm gonna actually go sub right now, you're a genius! I'm currently screaming this Nico is Clancy thing into the void, seeing who hears 💀 I can link back if you'd like to see, I've been doing so much cooking on this idea before I found your video 🙏🏽

[quasi pasture]

aw thank you! and i’d love to see some of your thoughts!! the more and more i researched it for the video the more i got obsessed with the idea lol

[devout mango]

#1213244361320439828 message starts here and goes until rn 🫠😅

[vital arrow]

@devout mango @quasi pasture 🔝❤️🔥

[quartz sphinx]

@quasi pasture your YT is not linked in your profile. Can you share a link to your video?

[waxen meteor]

just watched your video-- i see the lore very similarly in terms of clancy=blurryface=nico, and the confrontation is ultimately about fighting his own mind.

one thing you pointed out that i hadn't pieced together was how blurryface, nico, and clancy all being the same person explains the out of body jumpsuit thing

half baked thought-- tyler once said in an interview that clancy, as a character, was born out of an absence in the story that fans inspired. further, a common theme in tylers discography is about being two, "i start to part", "i am two halves of a soul divided", polarize, etc. so perhaps the absence that clancy is fills is this other half. ive previously interpreted some song lyrics as blurryface being one part and tyler being the other-- but, instead, it could be interpreted as tyler is a person made up of both clancy and nico/blurryface as two halves. it seems so obvious when i write it out like this 😭

i need to rewatch the livestream and other videos to make sure this theory still holds up whenever theyre referring to him specifically as tyler-- ie, tyler and nico should never appear in the same frame, only nico + clancy. this also might explain schrodinger's nose scar

[olive plume]

i thought that too! like, we already have the named antagonist for this world, and we have the name for this world we’re in, so we need someone to root for, so tyler introduced clancy (by name)

[waxen meteor]

in which case.. blurryface album + clancy album = next album is Tyler album :p

[honest hill]

In the cut my lip visualizer, there's three tylers, just like they're three torchbearers. Tyler, Clancy, and Blurry face right?

[devout mango]

YAS All of THIS I love it 💕

[devout mango]

Same username if that helps

[viral quail]

I’m enjoying watching you cook
There are parts that don’t make sense surrounding Nicos intentions but the more you go into this theory the more I start to understand it

[vital arrow]

It’s making me feel less crazy seeing others agree on this stance! The video @quasi pasture made is very well done in visualizing it all together. Thanks @devout mango for sharing ❤️

[safe spade]

Wait should we consider Trench to be Tyler's album?

[waxen meteor]

no i think that's still clancy's within the framework of this theory

except maybe leave the city

[olive plume]

tyler’s album was actually regional at best and that’s why he’s trying to erase it from existence

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 12!

[devout mango]

Have you seen @quasi pasture s video? 👀 Thanks so much!

[devout mango]

Thank you!

[viral quail]

Not trying to erase it they just can’t legally release it

[viral quail]

I haven’t but I will now

[olive plume]

they had the option to completely re-record it for vessel but since they had written new songs, they wanted to use those instead so they picked the “best” ones from RAB

so i think if they wanted to release it, they would

maybe

[viral quail]

It sucks that they haven’t released it but at the same time I don’t know how I’d feel hearing those songs re recorded

[safe spade]

Ngl I think we might get a re-recorded versions of those 9 songs 👀

[viral quail]

They are so raw and we all have such a strong connection to them especially the headspace Tyler was in at the time that it would feel wrong

[vital arrow]

I feel the same

[olive plume]

if they just cleaned up the production and kept the vocals the same…

[viral quail]

When I say we all that’s an assumption but specifically for me they are so vulnerable that hearing them any other way would change the songs completely for me personally

[viral quail]

Can kinda agree

But love the basement trapped in time feel

[olive plume]

as long as i can hear some of those songs live, i’ll be happy (anathema and clear )

[waxen meteor]

i think it makes sense for his intentions to be confusing. a theme throughout the discography, and also explicitly stated in a moon letter, is how the bishops seem brutal but sometimes seem like theyre rescuing/protecting the citizens. the analogy to real life being how we need good and bad, and similar thought patterns to depression/blurryface can be needed in moderation -- for example, if you lack any insecurities at all, you could go too far ('overcompensate') and be selfish/other bad things

thats kinda half baked but hopefully my drift is clear

[viral quail]

Um yes I need to hear at least one RAB song live to die happy

No that does make sense

[safe spade]

😗 TBH I need to hear his more mature/improved vocals on Kitchen Sink at LEAST!! Dont get me wrong I love the man but sommee of the early vocals can be a little much....

[lean mango]

I'd be happy with them being re-recorded

the originals are still there to return to anytime I want

but I love what they did with Lovely

though tbh I wish it would've happened in the Vessel era

nowadays their style is so different

[vital arrow]

That’s true

[viral quail]

Being a sometimes emotional void of a person (or at least suppressing emotions) hearing the pain behind kitchen sink helps me break out of that

[viral quail]

But completely see what you mean

[lean mango]

What I would love, though, is a remade version of Blurryface with Paul Meany helping with the production

TOP x MM was a bit of a taste of that but Mutemath's style is so different than TOP w/ Paul Meany production, it's not the same

[safe spade]

Yesss Vessel Lovely is SOO good! I was surprised to see they kepy the RAB version for the 10 year vinyl which is 👀

[waxen meteor]

im also now thinking about pet cheetah, i feel like this interpretation has to already be out there somewhere, but since we did have the cheetah on dmaorg telling us bf's name is nico, ... is the pet cheetah in tyler's basement bf? that would make pet cheetah sung by tyler, with blurryface being the backup vocals (deep voice as usual) for some lines

its also interesting how in the song they tell us the cheetahs name is jason, and in the dmaorg cheetah, it says 'you still dont know his real name do you?' -- ie, the song fooled us into thinking his name is jason but its really nico : )

[viral quail]

Are you a baker coz that smells delicious

[vital arrow]

I love the way bf screams at the end, it’s almost a mad scream

[lean mango]

You know, that kind of makes sense

[safe spade]

👀 I like what you're cooking, it makes me think about Levitate and how hes a vulture that feeds on pain and it made me think it was Nico

[lean mango]

Because his pet cheetah helps him make music

aka he makes music about his insecurities

[waxen meteor]

ye exactly

[waxen meteor]

i feel like some HAS to have already come up with this b4 bc its staring us right in the face lol

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 3!

[waxen meteor]

also, im realizing cut my lip is sung mostly by blurryface

"face of contusions"??? literally his face lmao. "i keep on coming back even tho its me i abuse"

[vital arrow]

On point

[safe spade]

Ooo ya know I was thinking more of that one letter where Clancy comes back to Dema and says how the bishops still care about them and how he doesnt know if the banditos are good for him

[viral quail]

Right in front of your eyes am I right
Brings me back to the case that the simplest answer is often the correct one

[waxen meteor]

that would be insane
i mean really i just want paul to produce every song i hear for the rest of my life
(i cant wait for his solo album)

[safe spade]

Hmm I just had a thought, soo in terms of the Clancy = Nico (Nico wants to end Vialism) = Tyler. I was thinking about why he had black paint in all the videos (including The Craving Jenna's version) and I kind of think it explains that the Tyler we see with dark hands is still like our "Tyler" and the version we see without paint is "Clancy".

[waxen meteor]

going back to this i think i spoke too soon, trench is more complicated than just being clancy

it makes me wonder if the 'clancy' we see in trench era MVs, as well as moon letters before before the one about the out of body experience one, is actually tyler. as in, the two halves merged and went to trench together, and for a while, there was no nico in dema. then while in trench, the clancy half inside of tyler got weary, so blurryface took over and dragged their shared body back to dema as a way to "protect" him.

[devout mango]

I LOVE YOU GUYS THIS IS PURE GOLD 😭 it's cathartic (to me) to be in this amazing clique and theorize with such great and smart and compassionate people. 🙏🏽 Thx everyone!

[vital arrow]

I like where you’re going on that, it would explain possibly why Tyler is scared to “sleep” because he doesn’t understand exactly what’s happening.

[safe spade]

Routines does have BlurryTy pulling him into different rooms.....

[waxen meteor]

really interesting stuff. but would that mean the album "clancy" has all of its mvs performed by tyler?

[devout mango]

Explains why the answer is "right in front of our eyes" cause we have been associating "Blurry" with being "Tyler" since Blurryface came out.

[safe spade]

But at the same time.....it really wouldnt be a new thing to discover if we've been doing that for years ya know?

[waxen meteor]

wait could you expand on this further? im not sure i understand. are you saying he would be afraid of sleeping bc they share a physical body and so the other one can easily take control at that time?

[devout mango]

Also idk if anyone's said this but if Clancy is actually Nico then that explains why his colors are RED in this album. He's a bishop.

Also explains why Clancy able to seize (CREDIT @quasi pasture video on yt)

[vital arrow]

I’m thinking though as well… when he was performing for DEMA all the citizens were frozen like they were seized, while he got to move about freely… during mulberry street

[devout mango]

The man does not lie. He said "there's an infestation in my imagination" to kick this story off and now I'm still sitting here surprised it was all twisted up 😭

[safe spade]

Those Citizens also started running when the alarm went off while Ty stayed behind......

[vital arrow]

During SAI livestream *

[waxen meteor]

okay youre really onto something here, i think routines is absolutely integral to this theory bc we actually see black paint tyler and non black paint tyler in the same video

(even tho its supposedly not a lore video 🤔 despite also having bishops coats)

[devout mango]

And we also possibly see red eyed Tyler too in the Routines vid (unless we're assuming that's a lighting thing)

[vital arrow]

Definitely red imo

Another path I was going down today is torchbearers role in this, I believe it’s his hand at the end of routines mv

[safe spade]

Not to mention the yellow flowers in the blue room and the ones we see in the "real world"

[vital arrow]

And referring back to SAI livestream the color theory associated with the bishops, I thought back to Tyler’s hair being pink like Keons button, Sacarvers blinking rapidly in yellow (torchbearer/banditos) and Nico is a weird color imo, almost void of color (but not red)

[waxen meteor]

ummm someone HAS to have seen this already right? his eyes are red. that's blurryface 0:52

[safe spade]

Yep people pointed that out the night the videos dropped its why its sus he made sure to say this wasnt lore related

[safe spade]

So about this I find it interesting that Tyler is wearing a blurryface shirt but its actually SHY AWAY Josh who wakes him up....

Or his shirt is VERY similar to that one blurryface era shirt

[waxen meteor]

im wondering if the black shirt in the sleep sequence is blurryface and the white shirt is someone else? (tyler, clancy) -- rewatching the vid trying to see if that makes any sense

[vital arrow]

I was trying to figure out the shirt, it seemed familiar

[vital arrow]

Side note on this image… that’s his face after being woken by Tommy again and realizing he’s doing all this plus touring 😅

[waxen meteor]

th eshirt is the fpe code

[safe spade]

Seee I think white shirt/jacket is Clancy/Nico

[shadow cipher]

LEVEL UP: You are now level 6!

[devout mango]

This all gives so much meaning to the song Morph, I'm gonna give it a listen 👀

[devout mango]

Huh?

[safe spade]

He has the mask and red eyes....

[vital arrow]

Someone tried to tell me his eyes weren’t red in the DR image there, that it was a filter. I’m like, regardless of any filter, they are very obv red imo

[waxen meteor]

not sure if this is anything except an easter egg but i noticed this mouse trap in the corner, then i noticed that in that scene both of them are staring towards it like deliberately calling our attention to it
reminds me of the song Trapdoor, which if you read routines' alternate lyrics in digital remains, routines is like a rewrite of trapdoor

[vital arrow]

Nice catch!

[safe spade]

I was just about to say something but I think they're setting a "Trap" for Tyler?? Clancy?? And Torch is eventually going to save him

Also the image for Routines is....sus 👀

[vital arrow]

It’s like they’re morphing

I’m starting to wonder if torchbearer is associated with a bishop? He has the power to lead/guide

[safe spade]

I think Torch's Bishop is Keons or was Keons

[vital arrow]

I forgot about the dark bishop in the corner, that would make sense if it was Keons

The way Josh is just sitting there too, such an eerie unsettling scene

[safe spade]

Ngl Oldies Station with the zoom-ins towards the end felt unsettling

Especially with the body behind Josh....

[vital arrow]

And watching Tyler reach out to the camera as they fall in, his expression

[waxen meteor]

flashback to animorphs book covers o.0 (i have always associated an animorphs plotline with the song morph lol)

[vital arrow]

And the way Josh is climbing out of the hole as Tyler walks away

[safe spade]

And hes out of focus

AND Tyler's wearing the violation badge

[vital arrow]

🤯

[devout mango]

That makes me think of "taking orders from the corner where the shadows always lived" -redecorate and "rat race place to place adding weight" backslide

[vital arrow]

Hold up, does Tyler have the Clancy neck band on in this video?

@devout mango remember how we were talking about how it’s weird he was putting that on in the end of ATROFD mv?

[devout mango]

Also not for nothing but only slightly related I also think of "and I will try with every line to come across like I am dying to let you know you need to try to think " -car radio 💕

[celest dust]

You would think they would be able to just answer the question no? 🤔

[waxen meteor]

im sooo slow i just realized midwest indigo = purple, ie, blurryface's red tinting tyler/clancy's blue ('u never wear blu if u wear blue ill take it as a sign of defeat', also tyler wore blue a ton before bf era) (the song can be seen as a conversation between tyler/clancy and blurryface, 'you can be so cold, make me second geuss myself' etc)

[devout mango]

Oh ya but someone pointed out to me he's actually wearing it the whole vid. BUT it's still interesting the way he puts it on at the end of the At the Risk of Feeling Dumb vid and looks at the camera 💀

[safe spade]

Yes!

[devout mango]

This is very interesting!

[vital arrow]

Why make a point of it like that though when he was wearing it the whole video, and Tyler giving us the bedroom eyes 😩😅

[devout mango]

Exactly! 🔥

[safe spade]

Also the callback between Tyler in Jumpsuit anf Josh in Oldies Station....

[waxen meteor]

oh so my interpretation of the lurking bishop is that it is nico

• we only see the lurker in frames where josh is alone
• the closet tyler is sitting in front of only has 8 robes -- to me this implied tyler is nico, but i can see how you might interpret the missing one as keons'

[waxen meteor]

the keons theory seems equally valid. i wonder if theres any futher evidence for this in sai?

just spitballing with almost zero evidence, but tyler has said josh has a triangular existence (much like tyler himself within the tyler is part bf part clancy theory) -- what if theres a direct parallel and josh is also keons and the torchbearer

[vital arrow]

Isn’t it interesting in the SAI video Josh dressed as torchbearer during a couple songs? He also did not run away during the alarm

[devout mango]

Anyone else thinking we should ping a mod? (I remembering seeing someone say to ping them with the juicy stuff and this last good bit has been all juice imo)

[waxen meteor]

weve been directly told the torchbearer and keons came up with a plan together. but if they are actually one person (josh) jus tlike clancy and nico are one person (tyler)

[vital arrow]

And sorry referring to SAI livestream again

[safe spade]

Also this might kill the Nico = Clancy theory but the fact they mashup HDS and Jumpsuit

[devout mango]

I'm gonna tug on that string a little cause I see it as supporting rn let me get my thoughts together 🤔

[vital arrow]

Josh seems too powerful to not be associated with a bishop as well, guiding Tyler from Voldsoy as an almost projection. Guiding a whole army to fight for his cause and Clancy’s collectively

[waxen meteor]

i need to rewatch sai livestream

with that said i think in livestream it might be tyler, not clancy or nico/bf (as in, they are merged at this point). since they do call him tyler

not sure if that address your jumpsuit/hds concern

[vital arrow]

I think of the host calling Josh a moron on SAI livestream, if that was a bishop seizing them for the show. It was like a personal attack

[safe spade]

See my weird theory is that Clancy (Ty) and Torch (Josh) are sons of Nico and Keons and thats why they have abilities and there are SOOO many images in DR where they look similar to the Bishops..... someone else pointed out that Clancy didnt recognize Torch until the yellow petals were thrown (a sign for friendship) and then he started to run away. If we consider Navigating and the fact My Blood was played what if it was also highlighting this: "I’ll bomb down on ‘em, I’m comin’ through
Did they know I was grown with you?" Thats why they had the handshake in Nico and The Niners!

[vital arrow]

In my blood and navigating are so similar with the imagery of a person going on a journey with (a brother, or Josh) and the end revealing they weren’t there the whole time with them, they imagined them there fighting with them….. like “remembering why you fight right before you do” like we’ll see during this tour

[safe spade]

It could also explain No Chances which I feel like doesnt help with the Nico is actually helpful...at least to me. Also "How did you get the location?" = "How did you find dma.info?" On the letters since sent to "Citizens" of Dma

"Ride or Die,my son" and on the ICY tour Tyler would switch it up and say Ride or Die, Josh Dun

[waxen meteor]

to me the child/son theory comes off as a bit too literal/heavy handed in the context of the lore -- but i think the supporting evidence for it can generally be equally applied to either that theory, or the theory that clancy/tyler/nico and josh/keons/tb are the same person

(with the exception being the s__e_lf.jpg on dmaorg)

granted this is an argument purely based on my personal vibes and not any actual evidence

[vital arrow]

Done running, came up with Josh Dun, wanted dead or alive

[safe spade]

See the se__lf.jpg keeps throwing me off.....

[waxen meteor]

could make arguments either way (child or same person) with se_lf.pg

the child is speculated to be nicolette, who was named after nicolas bourbaki (who was a made up person) -- therefore se_lf could simply be saying, "i am nico", as in self = nico

then the alt interp. is that since andre weil is in the original photo, and nicolette is his daughter, nico or clancy or tyler in the lore is the child of a bishop

notably, andre was cropped out of the photo on dmaorg

[safe spade]

True and until recently we didnt know who the child was.....

[vital arrow]

I’ve been leaning towards it being Nico for my personal opinion, but I believe also what you’re saying, because we haven’t been told per se, yet. It’s notable to me as well that Andre is cropped out and looks almost blurred out on the Clancy journal image

I think I worded that all weird above, getting tired 😅 but I agree Jade

This moon represents the RAB release year

And they included the jpg name for it to be noticed imo

[safe spade]

Its why I lowkey think we're gonna get a RAB re-record if we're really flashingback as Tyler says 👀

[waxen meteor]

if thats the case i think theyll def play some on tour so we will know soon : )

[vital arrow]

I’ll fangirl so hard

[safe spade]

I think whats getting me is then why is Nico a whole separate person in the story/lore and in Goner he says Blurry's the one im not....Clancy being Nico can work......but it makes me wonder if its just Nico controlling Clancy?? Like kabsks I dont wanna shut it down or anything but I cant get over Nico doing something "good"

[waxen meteor]

i dont realy understand where you got the nico is good guy from the nico=blurryface, and both bf/nico and clancy are tow halves of tyler theory

i have seem some other theories that nico himself is working to overthrow vialism but thats a separate theory

you dont need nico to be working against vialism for the trinity tyler theory to be true (lol idk what else to call it)

triangle theory

hmm i guess my conceptualization is a bit different than clancy=nico, i think i understand where youre coming from now. i dont think clancy and nico are the same person but i think they are both parts of tyler

[safe spade]

Oh because Lizzie has talked about Nico wanted to destroy Vialism #1213244361320439828 message (which I can see at times)

[waxen meteor]

(also im saying "i think" here but what i really mean is, im theorizing.. im not totally convinced yet)

[vital arrow]

I get that too. Maybe he was scared of what he was going through? ”I wanna be known, by you.” Is he talking to Clancy? Like at first he’s speaking to him in dreams, etc. and it’s freaking him out…? and then he learns to accept his role in this fight, he was a chosen one of sorts? So many questions. But I’m with you Cyd & Jade

[waxen meteor]

like in the logo, the black bar is tyler, the other bars touch him but they dont touch each other

sry by black bar i mean th emiddle one, im thinking of the rab color scheme logo

not saying that is what the logo means for sure but just as an analogy

[waxen meteor]

i love a good redemption arc

im just having trouble making blurryface's redemption make sense when applied as a metaphor for mental health

[safe spade]

Also Trees!!!

See its whats throwing me like its a good theory but everything that Tyler has said kinda contradicts this idea of Nico being the same person as our protagonist (I mean they are because its all Tyler but narrative wise it throws me off)

[waxen meteor]

i mean maybe the analogy to mental health could be like, radical acceptance (idk if yall are familiar but its a term used in some types of therapy-- essentially, accepting bad things without overly examining them, very similar to stoicism philosophically)

[safe spade]

I think its possible Clancy is the more bold part of Tyler thats ready to take down Blurryface and is "done running"

[waxen meteor]

yep i totally agree, i just cant really reconcile clancy and nico being the same, but they are both parts of tyler (so in that sense, they are the same person, but they are not the same, alone they are each only a part)

[safe spade]

And thats why Tyler's saying "I was born right here, just now. Originated right in front of your eyes"

Like...if we think about it...Im not sure if people have always thought Clancy was Tyler but Clancy's technically been in the shadows since Trench we've had his letters but Overcompensate is the first time we hear his name in a song....

[vital arrow]

I think I’m going to do some digging in Josh’s direction tomorrow. That is a good point though, I never thought Clancy was Tyler before now. And seeing the girl when the Clancy mask is pulled off at the end of overcompensate mv has me scratching my head as well.

[safe spade]

Clancy is the version of Tyler working through those final issues in order to move on to whats next defeating Blurryface/Nico and whatever else we get next

I think Josh is a HUGE part of the narrative

[vital arrow]

I totally agree, I’m going to sleep on it and get back to cooking tomorrow. Goodnight and good day to all

[safe spade]

Night!!

[devout mango]

I agree

[waxen meteor]

clancy was seizing that person, its shown at the end of the video

(also while i think their gender is totally irrelevant, i thought they were a guy with long hair)

[safe spade]

Oh I thought they were a guy too tbh

[waxen meteor]

i should prob make a separate double triangle theory thread at this point, but another piece of circumstantial evidence about josh/keons/tb theory

i was listening to the judge trying to interpret what it says about clancy/tyler/bf's relationship, but then a particular line stood out to me - 'i found my way, right time, wrong place'

this reminded me of Clancy Way, the street that was hidden in Trash's scales as an easter egg

Then I was reminded of how Trash is actually visible on the BF album cover. Wouldn't it be poetic if both Josh and Tyler were represented on the BF album cover? This would mean that Josh is Trash... and if Josh is Keons (or part of him is), then Josh is also Trash (since Keons is associated with Trash)

Alternatively, perhaps Trash somehow serves a similar role for Josh as Ned does for tyler

oh, and tying it back into the judge -- 'i found my way' -- im perhaps just way overinterpreting this, but we know the torchbearer provides a guiding role (ie, helps him find his way) for tyler/clancy, and we know clancy way is in trash's scales -- this links toe torchbearer to trash which links to keons and josh

[sleek pendant]

blurryface, trench, sai, clancy, tylor

[small turtle]

I don't know about anyone else, but love listening to raw teenage Tyler screaming in my ear. 😂 I have made my peace with the recent style and quite like most of the songs, but the first time I listened to Clancy I told my friend who got me into TOP in the first place that in the early albums Tyler is shrieking in my ear but now he's on the other side of a window and has swallowed a bucket of grease. [Edit: to extra-clarify, I really enjoy Clancy and have come to an appreciation of SAI, but I still would love it if the rawness of Vessel/RAB era would come back. I don't even think you'd have to be talking about depressing things in order for it work. Not all those songs are sad or depressed. The style could work with current themes if they chose to bring it back, even occasionally.]

[small turtle]

I struggle with this too. And...I don't think you need to have Nico be 'good' or against Vialism or whatever in order for him and Tyler to be the same. I have always assumed that in one sense Clancy and Nico are the same, as they are both Tyler, though I don't know how literal that has to be within the allegorical world (because at this point, how could we say they share a body? We have the shot of them coming face to face). Because isn't the whole point that there are two sides, a self-destructive side and a side that fights against it? But I think accepting the there is darkness is not the same as saying that darkness can be a force for good. Like, take 'Oldies Station' for example. I see Tyler saying 'hard things happen, mental health battles continue, but we keep going, we keep living, we don't give up.' It doesn't mean you are saying that the dark side of yourself is ok. Face it, yes. Accept that it's part of life, yes. Clancy is facing Blurryface. But the metaphor breaks down for me if you start to say it's Nico who wants to destroy Vialism. Because even if you could somehow make sense of it within the world of Trench, think about what that would mean in the real world--your insecurities are trying to help you? Your self-destructive tendencies are fighting against themselves? How would that make sense?

As for the fact that Clancy wonders in his letter if the Bishops are just trying to help him--I've been taking that as evidence of deeply ingrained and damaging psychological manipulation...

And theories about Josh--I have some thoughts about that that are completely different but I have been too lazy to write them up lol 😂

IDK I guess we'll see what happens

[devout mango]

Ya I was just really trying to put all my thoughts in here so that I could get help picking them apart and analyzing them 👍🏽 but the vid we were talking about last night really put everything i was thinking into a nice package. hope that clears up any confusion 🙏🏽

[small turtle]

And the real world equivalent I would see for that is that sometimes when we start to fight back against our negative thoughts, we second guess and wonder if the negative thoughts were right all along. It's easier to remain in old habits, scary to try to change.

[devout mango]

@small turtle #1213244361320439828 message this explains where I was saying Nico is actually fighting vialism. I feel like I was just a little off and I always teetering on the edge of what we all talked about last night with Nico being Clancy. And it was coming together, but I was putting a lot of raw thoughts on here hoping to discuss them and everything 💕 starts here last night: #1213244361320439828 message

[waxen meteor]

well im interested to hear them if you ever do. i honestly never really thought about josh's character until v recently lol

[devout mango]

Levitate " though I fed on things that feel you can learn to levitate with just a little help" who feeds on things that feel? Nico 😀

[sleek pendant]

that line is actually in reference to the vultures, because vultures feed on things that fell (for example, decomposing animals)

[devout mango]

Still feels like it's referring to Nico's ability to seize a vulture and take flight 🤷🏽‍♀️ or maybe I've lost the plot 😅

[devout mango]

With the whole "levitate with just a little help" (Nico can levitate with the help of a bird)

[devout mango]

Do vultures need a little help in order to levitate?

[sleek pendant]

wings and air

[devout mango]

Ok ya I can see it! 🫠 A vulture is singing Levitate everyone! What does this mean!? 😭

[devout mango]

Hey I just found another one "I'll be in the corner taking notes" -smithereens

[vital arrow]

Definitely

[vital arrow]

I’m with you on all of this, I’m doing some digging on Josh’s part today

[small turtle]

Whatever's going on with Josh I don't think he's a Bishop...

But I shall elaborate more at some point soon

I have a wild theory about Clancy and Josh both that probably isn't true but I like it (and I think COULD be true)

[quartz sphinx]

I thought Tyler was talking about himself there. He calls himself a vulture—he feeds on things that fell because he writes songs about depression and suicide.

[vital arrow]

That’s what we’re all here for though, it could or could not all be true ❤️

I’ll be mad if at the end it’s just Tyler, Josh or God forbid Jim waking up and it was all a dream 😂😭

[quartz sphinx]

I don’t think he would do that.

[lean mango]

Actually I'd argue that Blurry's redemption makes a lot of sense with regards to the real-life layer. Over time in dealing with depression, you can never get rid of your insecurities and anxiety, however, the insecurity and anxiety isn't truly against you. In fact it's a lot more like a frightened animal than something malicious. On a basic level, it's a reasonable, helpful response meant to protect a person. For example, crippling social anxiety stops people from talking to people because it wants to protect them from embarrassment and judgement, or from dangerous people. (TW suicide) ||Suicidal urges don't generally actually come from wanting to die, but they come from being so terrified and hopeless about continuing to live that death seems like the better or only option.||

The problem is, it gets out of hand, and when there's a lot to be anxious about and you can't deal with all of it, it builds up until it snowballs out of control, and then it's just a constant and much more toxic thing. At the core, it's because the anxiety wants to be reassured about all of the things you're afraid of and wants proof that they're safe and won't harm you, but for a lot of things you can never have proof of that. However, over time, people can learn to deal with and accept their insecurities and fears one by one until they're no longer in control. The fear is still there, but it rarely takes over and suffocates you anymore, and it goes back to doing what it's meant to do again.

Of course people with life-long depression or anxiety disorders often don't reach a point where they fully have it under control, but they can get much closer to the point that it no longer affects them constantly, and where when it comes up they can talk themselves out of that fear, which just isn't possible when it's much more severe. I think Oldies Station highlights this kind of progress, it's the same kind of thing as "feeling your eyes adjust." IMO that's a pretty good parallel for redeeming Blurryface, it's not that he no longer ever does harm, but in general he starts to be working for and with Clancy again rather than threatening to destroy him.

[vital arrow]

I’m taking this as well that “I found my way” could be a rouge bishop, that found his way and is telling another how to break free from this cycle.
I reference back now, that Nico could be apart of Clancy because Keons/Josh broke free from the negative cycle of Vialism. Which also represents the depression,etc. that was seen as more villainous in the earlier albums. I know just going through a bad episode recently, I was beating myself up over my feelings. As I’ve grown better, I feel stronger and more like a Clancy, a personification of what being strong is after facing my fears and sadness on the inside. (This might not make any sense, still drinking coffee and waking up)

@lean mango you put it so eloquently, that’s where I was trying to get to in my previous comment.

[quartz sphinx]

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 Yes! This is very well stated. I see a lot of talk about the cycle and that this story can only cycle back around continually.

There are people with cycles (for example, bipolar disorder) where it may never totally go away. But there are many people with depression/anxiety with trauma that actually can have freedom with the right help. And the ones who will always live with a cycle can also have a much, much better relationship with their inner life with help too. It CAN get better. ❤️‍🩹

[devout mango]

My brain is still tugging at the possibility that them being linked to bishops could be more important.

[vital arrow]

I can’t shake it at all, especially with the color theory playing SO heavy since the beginning of everything. Being an artist, I can’t help but draw those two connections and how the boys are red and yellow, while everything else is grey. There only other colorized things are the bishops cloaks.

[lean mango]

Bruh, I know this has been pointed out before but why does that say Lisben?

[teal compass]

They’ve done the lisben “mistake” 3 times at this point and idk what it even means anymore if anything

Original dema map had lisben and went to lisden, control panel site had had it correct as lisden then went to lisben then back to lisden , stream had lisben

It’s another one of those topics where it could just be a mistake and idk how much to read into it but you’d think they’d know to double check this name by now if they’ve messed it up 3 times, and the fact they’ve changed it from the correct name to the incorrect one in the past is weird

[lean mango]

I, too, feel benial

[celest dust]

Maybe we need to cross the Palabin Strait to figure this one out

[devout mango]

Maybe we need to switch all B's out with D's or vice versa in every song to look for clues

[teal compass]

Holy shit if you switch all the Bs in Nico and the niners to Ds it spells out “Nico and the niners”, what could this mean?

[vital arrow]

No not me, it’s for a friend, benial

[proven harbor]

And that’s benial number four

[devout mango]

Dlurryface 👀 real name?

[proven harbor]

LOL

Nicolas Dourdaki

[small turtle]

21 Dilots

Regional at Dest

Dessel

Dlurryface

Drench

Scaled and Dicy

Dlancy

[vital arrow]

Ohhh Dicy I like

[small turtle]

Personally, I like Drench

[proven harbor]

Scaleb anb icy

[small turtle]

maybe we should look and see if there are any videos where Tyler and Josh get soaking wet

[proven harbor]

lol

[proven harbor]

This is really interesting do you have any other pictures?

[teal compass]

These are the two other lisben uses

Second ones kinda pixelated in that but

[slate jewel]

I ♥️ Lisben

[teal compass]

Other weird thing is it’s lisben at the start of the stream on the panel there but still lisden at the end in the credits

[odd cargo]

lesbian

[wraith gulch]

So, lisden comes from polarize. “All I feel is denial.” Is there another song where we can pull “lisben” from?

This would require going back through all the lyrics, but, it does seem interesting they have made the “mistake” so many times

(Also it took me a solid 40 minutes to catch back up on this thread, yall really cooked 👏)

And if there IS a song where we can pull “Lisben” that may be an important comparison with polarize.

And it may not be off Blurryface

[safe spade]

Hey quick question because I think I got myself confused, So the Bishop who came after Tyler in Jumpsuit looks like it's Nico. And I assume he dragged him back in Levitate as well.....and I know in the letters Clancy says Keons is his Bishop and that one time he escaped he brought him back and eventually he potrays the other bishops.....but if thats Nico whos standing over Tyler/Clancy in jumpsuit why would he share a nod with Torch if Torch had made plans wifh Keons??? 🥴 I hope that makes sense

[winged sapphire]

hai any

[lean mango]

nothing new really

[vital arrow]

I’m following, I’m thinking it’s weird that Tyler goes with the Banditos in Levitate mv… and when they’re sitting around the fire… torch is there looking down. The guy talking in a deep bishop voice and looking glassy eyed…

[vital arrow]

Sorry in reply to your msg

[teal compass]

the events of jumpsuit arent the same as when clancy describes meetign keons, we dont currently know how theyre gonna explain it but the meeting with keons supposedly happened days after the events of jumpsuit, i think the torchbearer nico thing is more of a staredown than a nod like an "old enemies locking eyes" type thing

[vital arrow]

Then thinking a lot about this again in choker mv… going down my Josh/ torchbearer theories rabbit hole

[safe spade]

I always wondered about this!

[teal compass]

the meeting with keons is currently unexplained but as far as we know its nico in jumpsuit and nico in levitate since the keons meeting happens between jumpsuit and clancy being back in dema

[vital arrow]

He turned Jim into a toy the same way! 😭

[safe spade]

True!! And he changed his hair pink......

[tough timber]

i think i blocked this from my memory tbh

like it seems so unrelated to the lore but the more i try to dig in the more connected it allll seems

[safe spade]

What's interesting to me is that Choker Josh acts like a Bishop (probs Keons) but Shy Away Josh technically shows up in Routines.....

[safe spade]

Hmm ok thank you!! Ive been thinking about it quite alot!

[wraith gulch]

That shy away photo made me think…you know how some people dream in black and white? Shy away Josh wears black and white, torchbearer (aka not real) Josh wears black, routines Tyler is white and black, is this perhaps a color indicator of what is real and what is not? And perhaps awake Tyler when he is trying to sort out his dreams, assigns colors to the bad and good parts of his dreams. Bishops are red, the real Josh/banditos are yellow. Not a super fleshed out theory by any means but it makes me wonder. And then if there is this correlation, it’s very interesting too with all the black and white and blurry imagery in a lot of the Clancy promo stuff, such as the little photos that came with the box set? (Not DR).

Not sure about the red, maybe he dreams in black/white/red, or maybe he dreams in black and white but his dreams are so negative he gives them all a red “filter”.

[safe spade]

I think the red/black white clothing and the constant black hands definitely means something

The blurry imagery makes me think of this...and Vessel oddly enough

[devout mango]

This is what originally had me thinking Nico is singing more of the Clancy album then we think 🤔

[signal spruce]

In a behind the scenes from the Overcompensate video, Tyler talks about bringing red back because it represents taking what scares you and learning to harness it and make it your own

[devout mango]

I'm just not sure what he's saying . And I was theorizing that he was saying the same thing as Clancy, "we need to end this whole cycle" but I'm not sure why or where that could lead

[devout mango]

I think there's also an element to what Tyler says that isn't necessarily completely true, especially in interviews where the host doesn't know the lore

[olive plume]

except for that BTS video, he was just talking to the camera/mark. there was no reason for him to lie?

[devout mango]

Or like purposely misleading. He lies in the Livestream, he just jokes around and plays with the truth I feel

That's just me though 🤷🏽‍♀️ it's hard for me to know when he's being serious

[olive plume]

this entire album/era has been about reclaiming trauma and repurposing what was once used against you into badges of honor—bringing back the red and the painted hands and neck. wearing the violation code on his shirt during shows and also the RITN video. clancy using his name proudly now

[safe spade]

Yes!! Its why he's "Done running"!!

I found it interesting that all the songs after OC seemed to address different insecurities and issues that he has and dealing with it head one!

[devout mango]

Referring to the Clancy pajamas Livestream

[safe spade]

I definitely think he was being coy about Routines for sure

[vital arrow]

You know? So true

[cloud lynx]

oh

i just realized

we've seen Clancy with his Clancy album costume

but

we haven't seen the Clancy style Torchbearer in a canon scene yet

we've seen the Voldsoy Josh, and the Bandito Josh, but not the new one, like, in a narrative way

[wheat gorge]

well, actually we have, sorta. The projection Torchie makes for the demonstration in Overcompensate has that outfit

[cloud lynx]

true

but i mean like, a real Josh

but now that u say it...

maybe it was just another form of the fake Torchbearer

but still, maybe at some point he'll actually appear in that costume, in person

👀

[cloud lynx]

still weird how in Navigating and PS (and at the end of Overcompensate when they rejoined the continent) we haven't seen a projection Torchbearer with that new appearance

[wheat gorge]

maybe yeah. idk the whole state of The Torchbearer and his projections are kinda odd, cause some choices imply they are like more invisible forces that only Clancy can see, but other choices imply the projections are tangible and real, just not the flesh and bone Torchie

[vital arrow]

Guys the Josh rabbit hole needs to be explored

He’s telling us to 🔝 😅

[cloud lynx]

👀

[small turtle]

I always thought the choker MV wasn't canon?

Like, not in a narrative way?

But was I wrong?

[teal compass]

The choker video isn’t part of the story but I don’t think we ever actually came to a solid conclusion on what implications it has over the story’s themes like the other non connected videos. It’s not part of clancys journey but it’s definitely got a couple things to say about the themes the band uses and I don’t think we ever actually figured out what those things are

[small turtle]

ok. I assumed it was one of the videos that had implications for themes but didn't fill a gap in the narrative. so that fits

[waxen meteor]

lol i was watching that last night trying to wrap my head around whether it had deeper lore related symbolism... tyler tries to steal trash, josh keeps things he loves shrunken down behidn glass to protect them..

[waxen meteor]

this seems so intentional

[safe spade]

I knew it seemed off because while he wears long black sleeves in some clancy videos his vest was never long enough for the what to show.... 👀

[waxen meteor]

i totally agree, i think just like clancy sings a good bit of blurryface, blurryface sings a good bit of clancy

[waxen meteor]

yeah ig part of me is wondering if it really could jsut be a coincidence, like josh just threw the same shirt on that morning 😂

[safe spade]

Hmmm naahhh i think its intentional

Also I may have found...something....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IigZXFhkbMM this is the video where the gif they used to find dma came from

[vital arrow]

👀

[safe spade]

Or at least it was before it changed to have the dma link

[waxen meteor]

what in the world, how did you find that? its unlisted

its so disturbing

[silk bolt]

Woahh

[safe spade]

I tried looking on their offical giphy page with no luck! So I looked up the gfycat website that had the OG gif and it was shutdown, I found a random video someone on youtube of the video but I didnt think it was legit UNTIL I found the video from the TOP Wiki

https://www.twentyonepilots.wiki/assets/files/vesselstorepage-aa96aeb863e26c5b9e5992abff53c008.gif

Thats the actual gif (if it loads)

Which BTW

I found that interesting

https://www.twentyonepilots.wiki/docs/trench/04-20-18-Vessel-gif-changed

[silk bolt]

Wait then is it possible to pull something from the gonner gif ? I don't really understand how they did it originally honestly

[sly hazel]

the link was just at the end of the GIF

[silk bolt]

Ohhh

I never saw that gif I just caught the link from others later on

I never understood that's good to know at least !

[sly hazel]

It was just this for like 3 frames

then as soon as we found dmaorg

we got the violation code from the 404 error page

[silk bolt]

And all we have right now is follow the torches, torches in the ps music video, goner missing from the setlist with ghost being spelt in that new one kinda pointing to that

I see I see

[quartz sphinx]

Well if we’re following torches that points more toward navigating.

[sly hazel]

the follow the torches hint was definitely just abut Navigating