The Last Of Us - Season 2

[remote radish]

This is David Chase explaining the ending of the Sopranos all over again

Tbh who cares, choose your own interpretation

Death of the author and all that

[abstract peak]

No, it would not. It’s totally understandable that Joel saved Ellie, even if it was guaranteed that her brain would have led to saving humanity.

Ellie was like his own daughter. Even evil people can have some morals which doesn’t endanger kids.

You could argue that Joel shouldn’t have killed those doctors, and that decision ultimately led to his demise.

Unfortunately, he’s the creator. His words does matter.

It’s just my hunch that the Fireflies didn’t seem all that competent to develop a cure. There was a greater chance they wouldn’t succeed, and Ellie’s death would have been for nothing. In the end, it would have cost the life of an innocent girl.

[abstract peak]

In case there is a TLOU3, maybe they will explore this further. https://www.indy100.com/gaming/the-last-of-us-part-3-naughty-dog-game-neil-druckmann

[cyan mason]

Hope not

[ornate crest]

big dookie doodoo just like the game

except maybe 2 episodes

thought Craig mazin would be the difference maker 🥀 guess not

[cyan mason]

peak game

[pliant mist]

The Last of Us Part 2 is like The Last Jedi

The Last of Us Season 2 is like the Rise of Skywalker

Trying to be the most inoffensive version to appease a divided fanbase whilst trying not divide viewers who haven't played the game

[cyan mason]

i still liked the season

only issue I had was pacing which was an objective fault compared to the game but other than that I really liked it

also I think they should of showed lev in ep 7

[pliant mist]

Nothing felt earned

There was a lot of buildup to each one of those kills in the game, didn't get that feeling

They sort of just visited locations from the game and ended up running away

Why nerf Ellie so bad 😭

[pure hawk]

Doesn’t work

The kid would age up too much between seasons

[cyan mason]

u right

[pliant mist]

Yeah the kid ain't gonna be looking the same by the time season 4 comes out in 2029

Four seasons what a joke 😭

[pure hawk]

This is unfortunately a very good take

[cyan mason]

S4 hasn't been confirmed

[pliant mist]

Not been green lit but it's what they're planning

[cyan mason]

Honestly it's highly the part of the fanbase who hates on the game so much fault, we can't forget that tlou2 has legitimately more haters than enjoyers before the show got announced

[pure hawk]

No it didn’t

[cyan mason]

lol yes it did, if you saw the amount of fuckin hate tlou2 got when it came out and the years followed

pfttt

now suddenly they're fans?

like damn no u ain't

[pure hawk]

I saw

It’s a tiny vocal minority

The game sold extremely well

[cyan mason]

my biggest complaints for this season, coming from someone who enjoyed it for the most part, was jesses character and the part in the finale where she's washed up in scar island

[pure hawk]

Received rave reviews

Extremely popular among people who touch grass

[acoustic tendon]

but in a game you feel the build up cause youre basically playing to get far enough to that point, in a tv/movie setting, thet would feel like a filler

[cyan mason]

why tf was it necessary to add ellie going to scar island?!

that's the dumbest thing in the show so far for me imo

[pliant mist]

Nah because it wouldn't need whole episodes devoted to it

[acoustic tendon]

devoted to what

[pliant mist]

Ellie and Dina killing loads of people at places like the radio station

[acoustic tendon]

explain a bit

[pliant mist]

Ellie got nerfed so bad 😭

[cyan mason]

also why didn't the scars kill ellie on the island like wtf is this, they copied the scene where Abby meets lev and yara and put it in ellie?

dumbest scene in the show

[pliant mist]

Alright I really wanted to see Ellie kill a lot of people like she does in the game. Not the same number just more than we did in the show

Really makes the weight of everything so much more

[acoustic tendon]

isee

thats a fair point

[cyan mason]

now how is Abby going to meet yara and lev?! because we got that scene with ellie

[acoustic tendon]

i agree , there, has been a lack of ellie fight sequence

[pliant mist]

The most emotional death in the game other than Joel's is Mel's. Now in the show she dies by accident whereas in the game Ellie kills her intentionally making Mel a victim of this revenge cycle, not an accidental death

[cyan mason]

Mel's death is better in the show personally

[pliant mist]

Whole season lacked balls to make bold choices like Ellie killing Mel

[acoustic tendon]

same imo

[pliant mist]

I didn't like it

If w had more Ellie violence I'd be more on board with it but as of right now I'm not buying that Ellie has lost every part of her because when we next see her (on the farm with Dina) she's a shell of her former self

[cyan mason]

love how im the only one complaining about her getting washed up on scar island

[acoustic tendon]

i feel like her feeling conflicted about klling her , makes her characterization more nuanced.

the accidental causality also teaches her a lesson.

[pliant mist]

Didn't need to be there

[cyan mason]

it's the exact same as the Abby scene without yara and lev...

now I highly doubt Abby will meet them like the game

But jesses character assassination this season tops the cake for me

[ornate crest]

beautiful gameplay icl

rope physics go hard

story is some dookie poopoo doodoo

I'm not even the folk that hated it cause joel went to meet God real quick

[pliant mist]

They don't want the fucking viewer to think

They want to tell you how to feel hence the over simplification of this story

Trying to make an incredibly grey narrative more black and white

Because they're scared people will dislike it

Show some balls

Craig Mazin has no balls and Neil Druckman is sat in the corner watching Craig Mazin water it down just to stop conversation

[abstract peak]

It deserved the hate.

TLOU2 was such a poorly written game and to be honest, it barely had anything to do with “Abby killing Joel”.

[abstract peak]

That’s the only good thing about the game. At least the gameplay was solid and it was also very realistic.

If only the story was close to TLOU1. Could’ve been a GOAT tier game like the first one.

[pure hawk]

Poor baby, did you get mad when Joel died?

Did you cry?

Omg wait did you?

[rapid plank]

What was poorly written about the game?

[bronze marlin]

yikes...

i think what someone said earlier nailed it

they tried to take a very middle-of-the-road approach when adapting divisive source material

but in trying to appeal to everyone they ended up appealing to no one

by getting rid of the more bold choices, people who liked the second game for those very choices wont like the season

but by still playing out the same general story, people who already didnt like the second game still wont like this season

i think they should have just been more faithful to the more divisive elements of the second game

i like tlou 2, and my only issue is the structuring of the narrative

splitting it into two seasons gave them a perfect chance to tell the same story but in a different order, allowing the same moments to happen but making the audience able to sympathize with abby more and really feel the impact of ellie's dark turn

too bad they wasted that oppurtunity

[pure hawk]

Incels tho

It was always gonna get review bombed

[bronze marlin]

yeah definitely a lot of review bombing, but i still see a lot of fans not liking this season

[normal fable]

????

How

I thought itd be loved because to me it was great

[bronze marlin]

lots of review bombing

but even among non-incels the consensus is that this season was a significant downgrade

[finite knoll]

Nah; too much of a spoiler

You also don’t see Lev til Abby’s POV

[wooden basin]

Overall loved s2 (i did not play games)

Pascal terrific. Overall capable cast, Abbey actress was another highlight for me due to last episode.

Set design, practical effects, atmosphere, overall setting ,music , everything is extremely cool and atmospheric.

I hated that clothes were clean.

Some super awkward writing choices ,which were NOT in the game. I watched every single episode/game comparison.

Thought Ramsey is doing a bad job, liked her a lot in s1 and she is insufferable in s2 for me.

[finite knoll]

I’ve overall liked season 2, minus the pacing and some writing issues

I’m pretty easy tho, I just kinda accepted them as their own things

Made it easier to enjoy

[normal fable]

Isabela Merced ❤️

[finite knoll]

Performances were great

Isabela and Bella did a great job this season

[normal fable]

Absolutely

I still need to watch the last 3 eps

Is that number right

No
2

[finite knoll]

Season definitely needed to be longer

And Neil needed to write more episodes

Some of the game differences were interesting, and I’m really interested to see what they do for S3

Especially since Ellie won’t be in it a lot lol

[wooden basin]

I was not particularly thrilled by Merced , but idk i dont think its her fault

[finite knoll]

I thought she captured Dina perfectly

Helped that her and Bella had great chemistry

[wooden basin]

i liked that in games their scenes were darker, ellie more cruel

in the show Ellie overall feels relatively happy

[finite knoll]

Idk if that’s how I’d describe her in the season finale lol

[wooden basin]

not finale, finale was so good

loved how she got washed to the shore , nearly killed, back to the boat , the music the thunder and so on

brilliant

[finite knoll]

I, for one, am excited for season three

Because Kaitlyn will kill it as Abby

[wooden basin]

yeah she impressed me in the last ep

damn the line delivery

i like that she does not look like the game character, cuz its highly unrealistic to me

[finite knoll]

I care very little on if an actor looks 1:1 lol

As long as they like… somewhat resemble them, idc lol

Like, love her, but Isabela looks nothing like game Dina but no one talks about that lol

[wooden basin]

same, cuz im not a game player, but i can see if people loved the games its painful for them to see the characters they know, tehy believe to be "real" to look different

[finite knoll]

I mean, no one’s gonna look 100% the same as an animated character unless theyre literally based on them

[remote radish]

The season sucked

Hit all the beats of the game with none of the build up

Nothing was earned

Ellie was terribly written this season compared to both the game and S1

Seems like they were too afraid to shake things up, and the changes they did make ended up being detrimental to the story

Also why is Isaac even in this season?

Love Jeffrey Wright but he's just out of place given their story hasn't fully materialized

Also gotta say that scene where Ellie gets caught by the seraphites was so unnecessary and just a huge waste of time

[ebon geyser]

Finished it and I have some thoughts

I enjoyed it overall but the majority of episodes were bad with poor writing. I still enjoyed Ramsey and Pascal as they did a good job. Isabela Merced was fantastic in my opinion. The show looked absolutely beautiful at times.

I’ll definitely watch season 3 whenever that releases

[grand sonnet]

Okay this season was super underwhelming but it’s still ridiculous to me that anyone says Bella Ramsey wasn’t perfectly cast for this role

The second to last episode was also a masterpiece imp

[ornate crest]

I blame Craig mazin and neil drunk mann for this

druckmann lol autocorrext

[torpid sluice]

the agony finally ended

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-its-done-gif-9734672

[wooden basin]

she was not, s1 she was doing great

[wooden basin]

i mean there were some silly parts of last episode

i did not like "accidental" killing of hte pregnant girl

and after Ellie refused to go for Tommy the guy says she would go at lengths to save him lol

[uncut wolf]

S2 was fine

No where near as phenomenal as S1 was

But that’s what happens when you switch out the lead with a lead that is surprisingly very undeveloped and hard to root for

[remote radish]

Thing is they had to blueprint to make Ellie an actually great character but they went with a goofy, sassy approach for most of the season

So when the darker moments in her arc finally do come they don't really hit because the Ellie we've seen isn't really struggling with those dark feelings

[wooden basin]

It's Ramseys personal responsibility , she is the cause of the acting we saw, and maybe a little bit the idiot that feeds her dumb lines like "im dad now"

I honestly would either see her:

1. Stepping down
2. Going to some drama school

Pretty sure ego wont let her do the second

but 1 is respectable

Recasting is a tough decision to make , but idk you cant have her go at it for another season in the same way

Views and ratings speak for herself, its almost exclusively her doing

[remote radish]

It isn't really Ramsay's fault

I'm not a fan of her acting but she isn't as terrible as some people make her out to be

She was good in the last episode and has had other good moments throughout the season

She's had pretty bad moments too

But it all comes down to the mediocre writing

[uncut wolf]

lol Ellie just comes across as a self entitled brat tbh

Even if her arc is meant to be Machiavellian she’s lacking any nuance to me

Dina and Tommy is a better characters than her lol

[wooden basin]

It really is though

she did badly

her own acting is directly responsible for collapse and failure of the character

should have also said no to straight up lunacy lines

[remote radish]

They were and Tommy was like on screen for 5 minutes in the entire season 😭

[wooden basin]

Sure we can't really give any fair judgement to Tommy actor since he did not have much time

[remote radish]

Not really, you could have the best actress in the world and her character would still suck if the writing is this bad

[wooden basin]

Best actress in the world would pull off the same scenes well

she is lacking gravitas and maturity

[remote radish]

Ellie was doomed from the get go and there isn't much Bella could do about it

[wooden basin]

comes off as stiff and plain

[uncut wolf]

Also who casts Jeffrey Fucking Wright to give him like two lines

[remote radish]

Could a better actress have done a better job? Sure. Would it have redeemed a paper thin, underdeveloped, poorly written character? No.

[uncut wolf]

For him just to be silent most of this season

If he doesn’t get a main role in S3 I will be tapping out lol

[remote radish]

Don't understand why he's even in the season in the first place

Should have saved him for season 3

[uncut wolf]

Perhaps

I guess he doesn’t come into the game until much later?

[remote radish]

He will have a major role, i do hope they expand it somewhat because he's underutilized in the game

[wooden basin]

the thing is her acting is very noticebable, more than writing, so before we blame it at least acting should be on point

[remote radish]

Yeah he never shows up during Ellie's story

[uncut wolf]

Without spoilers

But is his character meant to lead to

||Ellie and Abby uniting against him in a common threat||

Just seems like he’s getting that set up

[remote radish]

I think we should see it the other way around: the acting is the most noticeable part, therefore most of the criticism is gonna fall on her, but the writing comes before the acting, so if you have an actress (for whatever reason) you know can't really pull it off, then the writing has to be on point so the actress doesn't come across as cartoonish (which she does)

[wooden basin]

1. Writing for the character was awkward in teh show - i agree

2. Bellas acting was equally bad

These are two separate issues

You dont excuse one by another

I might as well say , we wont write the character well because actor is bad anyway

[remote radish]

Not really, he just belongs to Abby's storyline

[wooden basin]

It's the same argument

[remote radish]

Its not excusing one or the other, you are the one puttig the sole blame on Bella

[wooden basin]

Seasons failure (commercially i guess) is her responsibility

like not 100%

but i would put good 80 on her

[remote radish]

Meh, the commercial failure comes from a lot of people tuning out after Joel's death

[wooden basin]

i dont think thats really the problem

[remote radish]

S3 is gonna be an even bigger bomb lmao

[wooden basin]

i am not a game player, i am not really consumed by rage taht he died ot a point i would not watch it

yes i was really upset Joel died, but thats the story

[remote radish]

Lots of people are tho

[wooden basin]

how do you know

star wars did not lose viewership cuz obi wan died

or some shit

its a natural part of story writing, when a beloved character dies

[remote radish]

Lol its not the same

[wooden basin]

same for game of thrones

[remote radish]

They did lose viewers after Luke died, but thats an entirely different story

[wooden basin]

like "beloved character dying" - is a normal story writing practice

[remote radish]

Yeah but most casual viewers don't think that way

[wooden basin]

if you are really blaming this on poor ratings

i think its delusional

[remote radish]

Or maybe not most, but a lot

[wooden basin]

last of us episodes worked very well even without pascal

[remote radish]

No but it does contribute to it

[wooden basin]

you are straight up telling me viewers have about 60 iq

toddler level

[remote radish]

The bigger problem is that what came after Joel's death sucked ass lol

[remote radish]

Well some do

[wooden basin]

cuz Ramsey butchered the role

[remote radish]

Media literacy in 2025 is prettty much dead

[wooden basin]

and they butchered the writing

i would think an average viewer is normal smart person

not a drooling vegetable

[remote radish]

Mainly this

[wooden basin]

mainly ramsey

for arguments sake if we had Nicole Kidman playing the role ( forget her appearance) i am certain the show would have stellar viewership and reviews

[remote radish]

See I dont agree with throwing an actor under the bus when the material is this bad

[wooden basin]

material and acting , i odnt treat them as teh same

[remote radish]

Bella is deserving of criticism, but singling her out as the main reason why the season failed when there are soooo many problems feels reductive

[wooden basin]

material is the problme of these execs and so on

[remote radish]

Of the writers

[wooden basin]

acting is her own issue

as the face of the show

she cant be that weak

[remote radish]

Sure

[wooden basin]

did you see Silo ?

[remote radish]

Then again, the writing can't be this weak either

[wooden basin]

i dont think that much of the show overall, but Fergusson is extremely good

she is the hero of the story and you can feel it

[remote radish]

Havent seen it no

[wooden basin]

Ramsey you wish to be off screen asap

s1 she was good in the role , really good

s2 she was really bad

[remote radish]

Yeah I agree

[wooden basin]

idk what she is doing

its jsut the hard truth

[remote radish]

Still feels like putting all the blame on her gives the writers a pass for the shitty job they made

[wooden basin]

i understand its not nice to be not nice , but its reality

[remote radish]

Like she's being scapegoated

[wooden basin]

its not her problem some fool forces her to say "im a dad" and do the happy camping and say other illogical lines, inconsistent even

its her problem how she acts

[remote radish]

Lol

[remote radish]

Its the show's problem

[remote radish]

This is also the show's problem

It goes hand in hand

[wooden basin]

i am not holding her responsible for the scenes

she is super responsible for the acting

idk how to put it

[remote radish]

Well if you're gonna use that argument then its the rsponsibility of the director to get a good performance out of her

[wooden basin]

i am convinced, if she was as good as nicole kidman, ratings would be all in 8s and viewership high, on par with s1

[remote radish]

The directing is also an issue

[wooden basin]

you cant make a horse outrun a supersonic jet

[remote radish]

It would still be bad

[wooden basin]

no way

[remote radish]

No but you can get a horse to run at a decent speed

[remote radish]

Nicole Kidman doesn't fix the abysmal writing

[wooden basin]

there was nothing to do with Bella as a director, she did not do the homework

unprepared, uncommited

and so on

[remote radish]

Sure it wouldnt be as cringe or laughable when Ellie is on screen, but the underlying story would still be shit

[remote radish]

As you said to me a while ago, how do you know?

[wooden basin]

its taking it out of the context, but she did say in interviews "IDK , I JUST WINGED IT"

[remote radish]

Idk, you've got me defending an actress i dont even like 😂

[wooden basin]

i would defend her for s1 , cuz she was great

s2 she must take it for her own actions

she could grow from it , or deny and remain the same

[remote radish]

It just feels you and many others (who are way more mean-spirited tbf) are throwing her under the bus for a season that was destined to suck from the get got because it was so poorly written

[wooden basin]

more she thinks its do with her not looking like a supermodel, the less she would benefit from it

her looks really do not matter

[remote radish]

So sure, criticize her by all means, she does deserve the criticism, but putting the entirety of the season's failure on her feels like excusing the writers for the shitty job they made

[wooden basin]

She was not destined to act b ad

that was her own doing

[remote radish]

When they are the ones that lay the groundwork and define the course of how things will go

[wooden basin]

I was putting a lot of trust into her and my hopes were riding on her

[remote radish]

Sure, thats not my point

[wooden basin]

i know that she was abysmal

in this case i think she could turn it around by acting as well as Abbey

and viewers would have loved her

another young actress , but damn she could deliver the line

[remote radish]

.

[wooden basin]

she gets praise from viewers, looks nothing like the character, its not a liked character at all from my understanding

you see the smoke is not coming from an empty place

idk how well Abbey is written even, but judging from what people say about tlou 2 is probably nothing special

you can put it into a perspective

people applaud her for doing a great job and no one blames her for the writing, why could not ramsey od the same

and i am certain she could have if she took it very seriously

[remote radish]

Abby is a hated character for what she does, but imo she's a very well written character in the game

[remote radish]

Also not the same because Abby is in like five scenes the entire season, while Bella had to basically carry (which she fails, i agree)

Also show Abby is poorly written as well, her opening scene is just clunky exposition, her monologue before killing Joel is pretty bad

I agree she's better than Bella but she's nothing special really

She was good in the one scene she ahd in episode 7 but that's it

[wooden basin]

her calling joel handsome was ridiculous, like a makeshift joker, but she acted well regardless

As I said for Bella i only see a future in the show

if she takes time to improve her acting

otherwise she would face the same criticism again

[pure hawk]

No it isn’t

Don’t be so clueless lol

Think before you type going forwards

“It’s your personal responsibility to disregard the scripts and direction you’re given. You owe me the version of Ellie I want.”

[acoustic tendon]

this discussion seems pretty divided

the discourse is surely more fascinating

clearly both sides have strong opinions

[wooden basin]

i am saying her acting is her responsibility, she clearly had creative input and sometimes she had to say no

director admitted in an interview he fed her the line and she just went with it

there is no version of Ellie i want , i did not play the games

[pure hawk]

Don’t speak so confidently about things you might not understand lol

Actors can’t just go rogue lol

Especially young ones

They do as they’re directed

Ramsay followed the scripts they were given

The issue is that there wasn’t enough scripted time to showcase Ellie’s rage

[wooden basin]

yeah i get it she thought she had to oblige

but is it worth doing

from artistic pov

[pure hawk]

It wasn’t a thought lol

It’s their job

[wooden basin]

if ur asked for input sometimes saying no is not a crime

[pure hawk]

They didn’t think they had to oblige

They had to oblige

[pure hawk]

I’ve no idea what this means

[wooden basin]

anyway

the lines she said are not her fault

the way she acted is

lets put it straight

[candid pendant]

can someone help me understand the ending

did issac and the asian chick die so abby is now ruling the wolves?

[pure hawk]

no

[candid pendant]

so whats going on there

its confusing too because in the show jesses death looked like abby had woken up from a dream but someone on the reddit said he actually died

[pure hawk]

Yes

He died

Then we flashed back

To get Abby’s POV of the same three days

[candid pendant]

brooo

no way my goat died

he became more likeable than ellie for me

[wooden basin]

Abby stormed in to get revenge for her friends, killed Jesse, now we go back in time to see what was going on with her

kinda cool, i like how the story is going

[torpid sluice]

only good thing about Season 2 is how it managed scene where Joel gets killed in contrast to video game

everything else - awful

[remote radish]

No

[remote radish]

This is the game all over again 😭

[wooden basin]

it was good overall

[torpid sluice]

nope

[finite knoll]

Putting this on a fucking 21-year old actor is fucking ridiculous Jesus Christ people

[quiet cedar]

I only have four words after just finishing that finale episode

Are you fucking serious?

[finite knoll]

I have personally little emotional connection to the second game

So i'm on the outs and personally enjoyed the season overall

So i'm probably more in line with a show only viewers opinion

[quiet cedar]

That was one of the most disappointing and rushed finales I ever seen. The season was overall pretty solid but my god this one was all over the place, first I have to agree with the sentiment that Ellie was not as well written this season, I still like Bella Ramsey in the role but idk maybe it was the writing or something but she was way better last season, I still disagree with them killing off Joel as early as they did and a lot of the shit they did lacked any real focus like with the wolves and the scars.

[finite knoll]

IDK, I really liked Bella 🤷‍♀️

[quiet cedar]

I’m not saying she was bad but she was inconsistent to me, maybe it’s because she still looks so young but I was expecting a more mature version of Ellie and felt like she sort of regressed in ways, her revenge story basically got meddled in the rest of the shit this season was trying to do

I ended like Jessie and Dina more than Ellie by the end, and it’s not because they were more likeable it’s because they were consistent, I just thought performance and character wise Bella as Ellie this season didn’t come out looking the best unlike last season but I still think she’s still did a hell of a good job with what what she was given

[wooden basin]

she is an adult, self aware, smart

not a vegetable

I think she has to own up to her own shortcomings

and her acting was not a success

[finite knoll]

A fucking 21 year old is not the reason the show failed or whatever y'all are saying Jesus Christ people

Stop putting that on 20-something year old actors

Bella did not write the script themself

[wooden basin]

my argument was that her acting was not good, but i am nto blaming her for the writing

even with the material she had it could have been massively better

[pure hawk]

21 is barely an adult lol

No idea what age you are, but a 21-year-old can under no circumstances be reasonably expected to hold up a multi-million dollar institution on their shoulders lol

You're a kid until your mid-20s

[grand sonnet]

I don’t know how anybody thinks Bella wasn’t great

[quiet cedar]

She was great in parts, I still think she’s a really good Ellie but I think the issue is she still looks so young so I don’t think could really take her as seriously as they probably wanted me to on this revenge plot, the writing did her no favors between how meddled her story got between everything else and I felt her character regressed throughout

[wooden basin]

its a very common opinion

[pure hawk]

I think maybe you should log off for a bit

You seem too online

[wooden basin]

IDK

[candid pendant]

i think she was okay as young Ellie

not older Ellie

[acoustic tendon]

They didn't age ellie, idk y tho maybe the character dynamics weren't working with an older cast

[uncut wolf]

I agree with the regression point

It was like grieving teen to brat

Which is a bit of a shame

[wooden basin]

based off this , how is it not Ramsey's fault ?

Dead serious, every time she had to pick it up, ratings just sinked

E7 from s1 as an example too

Though personally i would not rate s2e7 a 6.6 ,i quite liked it but mb im not getting something

i bet that if e7 was pascal it would have scored highly

@pure hawk @finite knoll @grand sonnet so you think the scores do not matter or do they offer insight

[pure hawk]

Lol is that IMDb

Famously review bombed a bunch

[wooden basin]

and what about 9+ ratings

are these review bombs too

[wooden basin]

i dont believe that argument

i wish i skipped e7 in s1 if you ask me

s2 i overall dont think these ratings are far from my own perception either

maybe apart from last ep

i dont understand why its 2nd worst according to most people

like if the season is so review bombed , why is it review bombed in some episodes but not others

and joels death is not something that causes poor score of episode 3 imo

[pure hawk]

Not an argument, it’s true

Bury your head in the sand all you want my friend

[pure hawk]

You can actually look you know?

Here’s the full spread for the gay episode, for example

Here’s if you start filtering it by country

[wooden basin]

fair i guess

yeah rating it straight up 1/10 is unfair

but so is probably 10 lol

[pure hawk]

You’re learning how bots work lol

Let’s look at the spread for S2E4, an episode with two acclaimed Jeffrey Wright scenes, a technically marvellous train zombie attack… and one gay sex scene at the end

Hmmm

You can cut out both the 10s and the 1s, and the curve still trends far more positive

[wooden basin]

but why review bomb e7 and not e2 in s2

so review bo bombing is still caused by the episode being bad

e7 is nothing to do with politics or genders or sexuality

cant blame it on modern vices

[pure hawk]

Because one of them is a cool action movie with their favourite action star and a flamethrower

[wooden basin]

but if an episode is bombed

there is a cause for it

[pure hawk]

No but at that point people (no offence, like you) have weirdly started blaming the season’s failings on a kid.

[wooden basin]

and cause being a quality

[pure hawk]

I don’t think Ep7 works, personally

[wooden basin]

an adult

you are mixing terms for the sake of sympathy

[pure hawk]

But I think it’s silly to try and pretend there isn’t review skewing here

[pure hawk]

No I’m changing the term to my adamant belief

What age are you, approximately

Cos 21 is a kid

Not an adult lol

[wooden basin]

im defo older than bella and younger than pascal

[pure hawk]

If you say so

[wooden basin]

i think she is an adult , i am not treating her like she is in kindergarten or needs hand holding

Her acting has a massive weight , like it or not

thats why she must bear the responsibility

I expected more from her, she could do more

Jesse actor clearly prepared

there are roles you dont play "yourself" and expect it to work

Bella felt like she started to play herself

[pure hawk]

I think I’m just gonna stop it here

You don’t really understand what you’re talking about, it feels a bit pointless coming down to your level

They are a kid following direction and a script

Putting all the responsibility on them is very immature

We can just agree to disagree

[wooden basin]

you exaggerate what i am saying

she is responsible for HER acting, but not for the lines she is fed

I understand well enough that she is getting a paycheck and this bigshot comes up to her and says "I THINK ITS A GREAT IDEA YOU SAY THIS LINE RIGHT NOW" and she does it cuz she is getting paid for it

[pure hawk]

Yes that is how filmmaking works lol

[grand sonnet]

No it’s true. IMDb used to have demographic ratings available and I saw that episode 3 was completely review bombed by primarily homophobic countries

[grand sonnet]

Yeah, you can see for episodes featuring gay couples it’s heavily review bombed by countries like Saudi Arabia and stuff

[wooden basin]

Joel protected Ellie when she was called a dyke

by that logic episode shud have been trashed

[abstract peak]

She is a 21 year old adult lol.

Bella Ramsey is the weakest part of the series. They could have cast a better actress. I’m not particularly a fan of Pascal’s acting in general, but there are moments in the show where he shines as Joel.

Kaitlyn Dever as Abby is an improvement over the game. I think the character will end being more nuanced in S3.

[wooden basin]

if any of us was made into a casting director, its hard to improve on pascal but easy on ramsey

Pascal is a great actor and a fairly popular one

you dont just get a better deal easilly

personally i would probably consider Pitt, maybe Mickelsen maybe Jamie Lannister

but idk if i still would not pick Pascal

[abstract peak]

Yeah, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau would’ve probably been great as Joel.

[wooden basin]

people fan cast him

idk if its right

[abstract peak]

Brad Pitt doesn’t do much TV, I guess?

[wooden basin]

i am not thinking about whether its possible, jsut whether it would work or not

i dont think Jamie beats Pascal to be honest

[abstract peak]

He has done a Joel like role before. The Silencing.

[wooden basin]

he is very good looking, a good actor too

[abstract peak]

He’s a much better actor

Pascal is okay

[wooden basin]

much better actor how

i never saw the much better from him , even though he is good

i honestly did not see that much from Waldau, heard he is acting well in other movies, but Pascal is just very impressive

as a show viewer im very satisfied frankly, dont wanna recast him

[candid pendant]

i don’t hate Bella but her casting was horrible

all the scenes she’s supposed to look frighting or scary she just can’t pull it off

and they absolutely butchered the whole idea of revenge

[fallen dagger]

I don't see it

I feel like people have an idea in their minds and project that. She got cast, end of story. They need to stop expecting to see an exact replica of the video game Ellie.

[candid pendant]

It’s live action for a reason though, it’s literally supposed to look like the game

Bella is a good actor don’t get me wrong but she literally can’t pull off the game Ellie

And the writing for season two was horrid

[fallen dagger]

Craig Mazin said in an interview that Season 2 will not follow the timeline of the game exactly. But for me it is sometimes scene by scene as the game, especially ep.6

[candid pendant]

What’s the point of a game adaption if they won’t follow the game 😭

[fallen dagger]

idk pal, sometimes some things won't make sense in showing or would be hard for the actors to do or idk, some have contracts in place. nothing is ever 100% trully adapted. books, comics, a lot of them have their differences for whatever the reasos

[candid pendant]

The fallout adaption was amazing, if you’ve seen it. And based on what the last of us season one looked like they definitely could do it, they needed to cast someone that looked like Ellie though. Bella can’t portray Ellie how fans want her to because of the writing and the fact she’s literally a polar opposite

On top of that season 2 was so rushed and they skipped so many things it shouldn’t even be called the last of us anymore

[fallen dagger]

Look, I haven't played the games so I can't really talk with confidence, both my brothers did and I know the lore - I just think people are being v unfair with Belle, as if Pedro looks the same as Joel.

[candid pendant]

The difference is Pedro isn’t a polar opposite of Joel, he somewhat looks like the character and on top of that he’s a phenomenal actor, Bella just isn’t there yet and on top of that she literally can’t look scary, she has a baby face

[fallen dagger]

That's weird cause I personally like all her scenes where she is screaming, especially the one that she kileld Nora

Kaitlyn Dever looks 12

why is no one talking abou that

[candid pendant]

She doesn’t she looks her age

But nobody likes her either

Search up Abby the last of us in game

Youll see why

[fallen dagger]

is it cause she's not bulky?

i swear people are miserable

[remote radish]

Its not about looking like her game counterpart, its about getting the characterisation right, which the writers completely failed at

[remote radish]

Being bulky is a huge part of her characterisation in the game tho

That said, the same people that complained about her being bulky in the game are now complaining about her not being bulky in the show

[finite knoll]

I just wanna say that absolutely no one gives Isabela flack for looking nothing like Dina lol

IDK, I just got to the point where I accepted the season for what it was. It helps that I don't have a close connection to the second game, so the changes bother me less

[wooden basin]

all i wanted from bella is to act well

season 1 i applauded the acting

season 2 i dont applaud the acting

also no way i want abby to look like the game

its just dumb

[pure hawk]

Is that meant to prove something

They look totally different lol

Also her hair isn’t like that in the show

https://tenor.com/view/gesturing-the-last-of-us-isabela-merced-dina-the-last-of-us-season-2-gif-11984961668813722216

[candid pendant]

yes

because at least she looks somewhat like the character

they made both main characters polar opposites of the game

so why would people complain about a side character that looks similar to the game?

[pure hawk]

No she doesn’t lol

Also like

That’s not her look in the show

That is a red carpet photo of a celebrity

[candid pendant]

obviously shes not gonna be all done up like that in the show but you cant lie and say she doesnt look similar

[pure hawk]

What about them looks similar to you

[candid pendant]

if her hair was up she'd look identical + the game is smiling and she isnt

[pure hawk]

What about them looks similar to you

Cos to me it’s sounding like you’re saying something

That maybe you shouldn’t

[candid pendant]

im saying they look similar

im not saying anything bad

[pure hawk]

You said they’d look identical if she tied her hair up

[candid pendant]

is that a bad thing?

[pure hawk]

It’s not a great look for you

[candid pendant]

how so

[pure hawk]

What would you say are the features they have in common

[candid pendant]

nose lips general face structure and if you match up a scene where the actors hair is in a pony tail they look pretty similar to me, compared to ellie and abby.

[pure hawk]

Cos I’d say Merced has a rounder face, smaller nose, thinner eyebrows and a much heavier head of hair

I’d also say

It doesn’t matter

[candid pendant]

it literally does though

[pure hawk]

Cos you’re not casting them to match a computer game side by side

[candid pendant]

its a game ADAPTION for a reason

[pure hawk]

You’re casting them to perform

[candid pendant]

no u quite literally are

[pure hawk]

It’s not a game ADAPTION at all

[pure hawk]

That’s such a terribly boring way to look at the world

[candid pendant]

you're casting similar looking people to preform as the character would in the game

[pure hawk]

Why

Why do you want it to be exactly the same

[candid pendant]

bella is a good actor dont get me wrong but she cant pull off ellie and she shouldnt have been casted

[candid pendant]

???

because its an adaption?

[pure hawk]

Stop saying adaption

The word is adaptation

[candid pendant]

the show was made as an adaption and classified as one, why would they change everything?

[pure hawk]

Adaptation =/= shot-for-shot remake lol

The word adaptation by definition means change

You’re changing the material for a new medium

That is literally what that means

[candid pendant]

adaption is literally another term for adaptation

[pure hawk]

Is that your only response

Adaptation is literally defined as “a process of change”

What’s the point of doing it exactly the same

You already have that

This is a chance to get another take on the story

Expand it in that way

[candid pendant]

"the action or process of adapting or being adapted." and the show did not do that

[pure hawk]

Bro

Are you really stupid

No offence but like

You just defined adaptation as being adapted

???

[candid pendant]

u were trying to say the show wasnt an adaption??

[pure hawk]

No

Nvm

I think maybe you’re not able for this

[candid pendant]

the show was literally made to be an adaption with the game developers helping ON the cast team, then the directors and writers decided they didnt want to do that, god forbid someone wants a character to look SLIGHTLY similar to the game

[pure hawk]

Stop saying adaption

I know you googled it and it’s technically correct

But it’s not a word anybody actually uses

And it just makes you look silly

[candid pendant]

ive used it my whole life idk what ur on about

[finite knoll]

No character is 200% gonna look like any video game character unless they're literally the person the character is used for the 3D models

I don't give a shit if an actor doesn't look 100% like a fucking CGI fictional video game character as long as they pull off the character well enough

[candid pendant]

the casting for abby would've worked perfect for ellie but i get what you're saying

bella simply cant pull off some scenes that were in game though which is what i was implying

ill admit she did a great job with the first season and portraying young ellie but the timeskip she did not pull off and the writing was really against her

[finite knoll]

I’m gonna agree to disagree with y’all and move on

I have no problems with any of the castings and we’re just not gonna agree

[bronze marlin]

yeah i think all of the actors are talented and capable of portraying their characters faithfully, any inconsistencies or poor characterization is due to bad directing and writing

[candid pendant]

but my argument was that bella simply cant pull off ellie as a woman, her facial expressions arent that of the game and she looks the same as season one, just with a tattoo. i do agree the writing was poor and its not her fault but you cant just lie and say she was a good casting

and as for abby the main thing in the game about her is her strength and build where as in the show shes skinny with no muscle, not sure what they were trying to do there

[rapid plank]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8MSeGUr/

this was a interesting watch

[wooden basin]

only problem with Dina i had

is that she looked super clean

like a lot of characters

when i was checking joesl death scene i ngame

Abby looked she lives in a pit of mud

well yeah i agree with the video

Not only Ellie is badly acted

but also badly written

in games she was meant to be the hero (albeit an anti hero)

in the show she is some sort of incapable idiot

brings the rifle she never uses

i hated that she accidentally shot a pregnant woman

instead of deliberately stabbing her in the neck

[acoustic tendon]

Thats a debatable topic, on the balance of expression between what is noticeable on face and how a person would realistically react to the situation. I'm not saying one is worse, cause I see your point here.
But the question is, too what extent should an actor mold their expression so that it doesn't feel hyper realistic? It's debatable cause reaction is a very individual characteristic.

But the characters do feel too clean in the show

[willow halo]

Truth be told Season 2 wasn’t the best, but I would argue that might be because frankly looking back, Ellie’s story wasn’t that particularly good in the game. If anything, I’m cautiously optimistic for Season 3 because I felt that Abbey’s storyline carried more of the narrative meat of Last of Us Part II.

[unkempt sable]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/the-last-of-us-season-3-kaitlyn-dever-abby-creators-confirm-1236261056/

[fast bobcat]

I dont know how they plan to make the show 4 seasons

[remote radish]

Abby's story is indeed more interesting, but they still butchered Ellie's portion of the story. I'm not sure if I trust them to tell her story right, though I'll watch it because I want to see ||the rat king and the war at Seraphite island|| in live action

[torpid sluice]

money laundering scheme

I think literally nobody will await Season 3 for 2 years and then be like "oh yeah I'm so happy to finally watch it"

[normal fable]

I will :)

[ebon geyser]

I will be watching season 3 when it releases

[wooden basin]

i super wanna watch s3, while s2 gets some critcisim (and i also crticise it heavilly) , but im not a game player i wanna see it through

[abstract peak]

The show might end up being better https://x.com/naughty_dog/status/1940465773639880781?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

Naughty Dog (@Naughty_Dog)

X · Jul 2, 2025, 5:41 PM

[ornate crest]

good riddance

[devout talon]

Hold on now.

I'm not at fan of people shitting on Neil like he hasn't given us some of the best character writting in gaming to datre.

Like I get it, he dropped the ball on 2, but honestly? He took alot of risks I think people in this industry are to cowardly to even appoarch.

Like I'm sorry, but the hate for him is 100% overblown.

[devout talon]

Also in this case, I agree with the core of you're argument however it is true that most game characters in games with attempting realism are based on real face scans from real actors.

Like it's not like they just digitaly sculpted the person, there is legit a real person that they brought in and used million-dollar face scanners to reconstruct models using real world mapping data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE9LHBUKx4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWKFFv1785U

Now Neil was actually known for using both the actor and the likeness (not always done because character design directors like creative liberty's) to more easily capture the performances of the actors during the production of both games.

Now in my opinion I have no problem with Bella Ramasy in the first season. Sure, she doesn't look like Ellie, but she pulls off her youthful spunk very well.

But here, that is not something that she can pull off. I hate to say it, but she still looks like she's 11 years old. Her performance tends to convey the idea of an Ellie that has not matured (and this is prior and leading up to Joel death) that is seen in the game. That creative choice was one of the more natural and better writting decisions on Neils part, as Ellie's growth is a new way to explore new avenues with the character and makes the huge gap in production time feel more natural.

Now, what you said is correct. It's not the actor it's the perfromance

However, this is I think where most people (in good faith cases) place there contetion. Bella Ramasey just can't pull it off.

She just doesn't look like or act that much like she's grown.

There is a clear deferience here visually and perfomance wise. And I just feel like the script and her direction just didn't sell the character trajectory Ellie needed to come off as this jaded older version of herself.

So while I think there as some bad faith actors out there, the criticism in my mind isn't "she doesn't look like a cartoon" it's more so, this actress does not meet her characters needed performance at this moment in the story

[bronze marlin]

most people would have just made a sequel thats more of the same, playing it safe. gotta give him credit for not taking the safe route

[ornate crest]

I js can't be supporting a zionist

[wooden basin]

They need to recast Ramsey or make her take it seriously

I understand how harsh it sounds

but letting her "wing it" again is not an option

she is paid for it so she can get to it

[devout talon]

Wait, who’s a Zionist?

[rapid plank]

Oh no lol, here it goes again, some people think Neil is a Zionist,

|| https://time.com/7275781/the-last-of-us-controversy-israel-gaza/ ||

[rapid plank]

This article should help clear things up…

I do think that people that think druckemen is a zio are making very poor arguments. There is no evidence that support it, Neil draws upon his experience based on his time in that country according to this times article

He used his Israeli background as emotional inspiration, not political messaging.

thematic parallels != political endorsement

But hey apparently being born in a certain part of the world, and using one’s own experience makes one guilty of being part of a sketchy group 😆 🤦🏾‍♂️

[rapid plank]

Any good story maker will do these things draw upon their own experiences, what makes these people so certain dude Neil is a netenyehaw boot licker, press their logic and ask them to show what evidence connects him to being one.

[devout talon]

Yeah

He grew up in Isreal

It kinda informed the brutal, ugly, style to last of us's violence in it's gameplay

He described seeing people get shot on the news I think.

Just because he's from there doesn't mean he support what they are doing. TBH he seems to be very distrubed by the civil unrest in Isreal if you look at how it inspired his work.

[devout talon]

So explain to me why you think is a Zionist.

Because from what I just read, it seems like this guy is anti-war / anti violent.

[devout talon]

And also

The parrelle themselfs serve as a part of a anti violence message

[ornate crest]

he reads more of an israeli centrist type guy like ooh both sides bad type shi

and i js dont like that im sorry

[willow halo]

So the PS5 update of Last of Us Part II now includes a brand new story mode which "Chronological Order" the idea being that everything in the story (including the flashbacks and the events from the perspectives of Ellie and Abby) are presented straightforward chronologically instead of the non-linear method they originally did. I plan to give it a playthrough sometime soon before I can say for sure what my opinion is...but there is a good chance that if Last of Us Season 2 avoided the non-linear approach like the game, it might have turned out better (granted they should keep the flashbacks though since I think there placements allowed for dramatic context).

[ornate crest]

actually not a bad idea icl

[torpid sluice]

Neil Druckmann, being the opportunist and Machiavellian that he is, has an extremely sensitive nose for sensing when things are going south - he's always the first to abandon a sinking ship.

there is 0 chance that Season 3 will be better than Season 2

[upper mesa]

He's talked in the past of how much the second games backlash greatly affected him. Now that we are getting season 3 thats completely Abby's story, I can totally understand why he would want to step away

[ionic crown]

“He took a lot of risks”

What risks did he take?

[bronze marlin]

killing the beloved protagonist of the first game at the start and then making you play as the person who killed him

doesnt really scream "playing it safe" to me personally

[jovial latch]

Idk why I watched this whole season in like 2 days

Is it worth even playing the games now

[bronze marlin]

yes

[jovial latch]

I started playing the first game for a bit then accidentally watched the whole two seasons 😭

[upper mesa]

Yes play the second game and make your own decision on the story. Don't listen to the internet

[rapid plank]

Absolutely it’s a different medium of story telling with much different strengths + I’d argue video games can be even more immersive than films.

[jovial latch]

Ok