🎥 Joker: Folie à Deux

[low junco]

You haven’t seen it

[thin hawk]

I usually don’t watch movies in meh quality(only for some), but I was curious about the plot due to the reactions.

I mean I also watch bad movies out of curiosity.

I do that with Telugu cinema all the time for example.

[elder junco]

I haven’t seen this yet but I already know this is a great movie and yall just don’t get it

[thin hawk]

Lmfao as if this movie is complicated.

[orchid birch]

I watched it on a theatre and the musicals made no sense at all

I don't think I could watch this movie in a phone, even in a theatre it wasn't a easy watch

[thin hawk]

Even if I watch this again on TV with my home theatre set up, it ain’t won’t mean really change my opinion at all. I ain’t gonna say the movie is good overall because it looked great.

[hardy geode]

Audiences are trash right now. Its considered cool to mock anything weird or different. The mob is feeling saucy.

[low junco]

If a movie looks good, sounds good, is well performed and has an interesting POV

Then it’s worth having been made

Plot is the least interesting thing to me

[thin hawk]

As if it’s cool to make a movie called the Joker and then the character is anything like it. Todd Philips tried to be a hipster to deviate as much as possible from the character.

[hardy geode]

He's not sorry that he tricked you. It's very Joker-like that way.

[thin hawk]

Writing, direction, acting and cinematography are the core pillars of a film. In terms of the first three aspects, the movie was mid. Acting aside Phoenix, there was nothing special about it and Gaga can’t act if her life depended on it.

[hardy geode]

This is you "Oh no. Darth Vader turned good again at the end. Bad writing."

[thin hawk]

Darth Vader’s redemption arc isn’t even comparable to this mess. What are you on lol

I would say Arthur Fleck’s Joker was never evil to begin with.

[hardy geode]

I'm just jerkin u. Seriously though, I'm sorry u hate it so much.

[thin hawk]

Dude, I generously gave this movie 2/5. People have been saying far worse things.

It isn’t the worst comic book movie ever and it’s better than the worst MCU movies that released. Just disappointed about the direction Philips took.

[orchid birch]

Joker 2 for me is worse than any MCU movie, I was waiting for this movie to finish, I doubt I would have even completed the movie if I had watched at home tbh.

[thin hawk]

Definitely not as bad even with musical elements, which I found irritating.

[orchid birch]

Plot is super important for a movie.. Joker 1 had a good plot, Joker 2 doesn't. Yes the movie looks good, performance by Phoenix is good.. the music was okay but wasn't needed.

I didn't hate this movie for being different, I loved Joker and it was very different too.

[orchid birch]

Musical elements were so unnecessary in this movie.. Gaga's character wasn't well written as well with ridiculous motivations

[thin hawk]

It should’ve never been there. Lady Gaga should stick with music.

[orchid birch]

She was OK, not horrible in this movie but again her character was meh

[low junco]

What do you mean by direction here

Out of curiosity

Cos direction is oversight of acting, cinematography, editing, grading and sound

[thin hawk]

Tbh, I expected it to be better after I watched the trailer. I bet many did.

[low junco]

It’s not a ‘trait’ lol

It’s just the bracket for everything

[low junco]

Joker 1 takes its plot from another movie, yet it still works

Proof that the plot isn’t what matters

Most movies share the same handful of plots

It’s everything else that makes them work

[orchid birch]

It takes inspiration from several movies yes

[thin hawk]

Didn’t expect Todd Phillips to go with the real Joker gibberish at all

[low junco]

He didn’t

With the greatest respect, if your main takeaway from watching the movie is that Todd Phillips was doing a secret origin story for a second, more evil Joker…

Then Jesus

You may truly be lost

[orchid birch]

So you liked Joker 2?

[hearty rock]

Didn’t the movie literally end with buddy killing Arthur and then going and carving his face up aka The Dark Knight Joker

[low junco]

I enjoyed it

[low junco]

Yeah, a random extra carves his face

But you might’ve noticed that the movie isn’t about that guy

And the movie also has literally dozens if not hundreds of guys trying to copy Arthur throughout

That’s like, the point

Not that this one guy is a supervillain

[hearty rock]

Well then why did the film pay special attention to this one guy lol

[low junco]

It didn’t

He’s not even in focus for the bit everyone is talking about lol

The ending is Arthur bleeding out on the floor

Cos he’s the main character

[hearty rock]

I think you’re missing the point

[low junco]

What do you think is the point?

What is the movie trying to say with that ending?

[thin hawk]

That doesn’t mean it’s not a separate aspect in itself. Writing, acting and cinematography are specialised for a reason. Direction is the execution of the overall vision.

[orchid birch]

That's fair. The movie looks good for sure and the performances are good too, I just wanted more from this movie.

[low junco]

The point is that Arthur accidentally created a cult around himself, and when he disappointed his followers they killed him

That one guy is irrelevant

He’s just symbolic of the wider following

[hardy geode]

Yall thought these were Batman movies

[low junco]

He doesn’t even have a name

[hearty rock]

Yeah, I’m not talking point as in what the movie was about

[fierce burrow]

if he didn't carve his face that would've been an okay ending

[hearty rock]

I mean the point of what was being said here

[thin hawk]

And Joker doesn’t have either.

[fierce burrow]

these are like shitpost movies they're so funny

[low junco]

Arthur Fleck is his name in this movie

If you noticed

[thin hawk]

The real Joker doesn’t have a real name lol

[low junco]

Ok so

[hearty rock]

Like Don didn’t even say “oh the film was some secret TDK Joker origin”

[low junco]

Let’s dig into this

[orchid birch]

I kinda wish this movie didn't have musicals in it because it was so distracting like a serious scene is going on and then a musical number ..

[low junco]

“The real Joker”

Famously a real guy

Totally exists

[fierce burrow]

the point is going through your head so hard bro

[hardy geode]

This is cruel. Leave him alone to stew

[low junco]

I came out of the movie thinking they hammered home the point a bit too obviously but like

[fierce burrow]

you can't be serious what the fuck why would that be heath ledger

[low junco]

People seem to have missed it idk

[fierce burrow]

is that supposed to be young aaron eckhart too then?

[thin hawk]

You’re being ignorant for some reason.

The guy says a morbid joke
Carves himself a Glasgow smile paying a homage to Ledger’s iteration
Laughs maniacally like the mainstream Joker
It’s clearly meant to represent that he’s going to reign in as the Joker we know. Except in this movie he will replace the dude who influenced him and later kills him for not fulfilling the role.

[fierce burrow]

this is why I can't understand Phillips for doing that carving thing at the end

[low junco]

You’re still looking at it like a franchise

[fierce burrow]

you can just not do it

[low junco]

It’s not “setting up” a future character

It’s ending a story

[fierce burrow]

people will spew shit like this

[thin hawk]

I said homage lol. Can you comprehend simple English?

[low junco]

MCU brain has broken people

[hardy geode]

A lot of kids wanted to carve a smile on their face after watching the Dark Knight

[low junco]

And then you said the second line, relax.

[thin hawk]

I didn’t say this is Heath Ledger’s Joker. It is a homage.

[low junco]

Todd Phillips, who isn’t exactly a genius himself, somehow overestimated his audience

[hardy geode]

The guy at the end waa basically a juggalo

[fierce burrow]

Todd Phillips you're going to director jail after this one

[orchid birch]

I hated this movie but you are assuming too much by saying that nobody at the end who killed Arthur is gonna become the main joker, we simply don't know about him.. maybe he was a fan of Arthur as Joker and when Arthur renounced that identity he just killed him.. don't know what carving up the knife signifies.

[fierce burrow]

see even the fucking incels can't read the fucking film

god damn it Todd

[orchid birch]

Also I highly doubt we will get any more sequels of the Joker anymore.. in hindsight we never should have had a sequel.

[hardy geode]

Im an incel and i understood it just fine

[low junco]

They’ve said they have no interest in a third

The only reason they made the second is cos Phoenix wanted to do a musical with the character

[fierce burrow]

omg don't out yourself like this 😭

[low junco]

It was originally gonna be a Broadway show

[orchid birch]

After the reception it has gotten.. zero chance there will be one now, plus I don't think the movie is gonna do well either.

[thin hawk]

I don’t know what to refer that person, but clearly the person is gonna be the psychopathic Joker who will replace Arthur. Not saying it’s the same Joker from TDK lol.

[low junco]

All the comic lore shit people are fixating on was the furthest thing from Phillips and Phoenix’s mind

They wanted to do something weird and new

And they did

[orchid birch]

Also.. the first one made over a billion dollars and the studio demanded another movie to be made.

[low junco]

I respect that

[hardy geode]

Pff bring it on muhfuckas

[low junco]

Demanded?

[low junco]

You’re making an assumption though

[fierce burrow]

I respect this take and honestly the movie pissing off all the people who worshipped the first one is good to me

but also that weird and new thing also kinda sucks

[orchid birch]

The plan was only for a single Joker movie at first.. watching this Joker 2 makes it even more clear that they had no plans for a sequel as this movie is a mess

[thin hawk]

Something weird and new, where the sequel was a fumble lol.

[hardy geode]

I still like the first one

[low junco]

Yeah they wanted to make a musical and came up with a plot around it

I love the hustle

[orchid birch]

I loved the first Joker, Joker 2 is absolutely horrible

[orchid birch]

Well that was a big mistake

[low junco]

Somehow you think the movie is all about introducing the New Super Joker so idk if you’re a credible source on this

[low junco]

I liked it

[fierce burrow]

Heath Ledger's Super Joker 2.0

[hardy geode]

The 2nd one isn't as good as the first, but it rings true as an extension of the first.

[orchid birch]

Again, that's your opinion which is fine.. I and vast majority of others didn't .

[hearty rock]

Why do it with a Batman aesthetic then? Why not just do his King of Taxi Driver do-over without it? You inherently land in territory of expectation when you’re tackling these specific characters, thus the anger around Harley Quinn not really being Harley, etc

[fierce burrow]

literally just don't have the guy carving his face and dummies wouldn't be confused

[low junco]

Why do you feel the need to say “and the vast majority of others”

Are you that insecure in your opinion

[orchid birch]

Lady Gaga character was a total waste and with zero character development initially too. Also what was her motivation really

[low junco]

We can just be two people talking, you don’t need backup lol

[thin hawk]

It wouldn’t be when they gave the indication. It could’ve been some random inmate who didn’t have display any signature characteristics of the Joker.

[hardy geode]

Th3 fantasy

[fierce burrow]

I kinda like your stance Ruby go Ruby

[low junco]

They explicitly say her motivation was to ride the fame wave by latching onto Joker

That’s just text lol

[orchid birch]

I mean you have seen the scores but I'm not insecure.. just stating my opinions. Many didn't like it.

[low junco]

Sure but the scores are weirdly skewed

[fierce burrow]

you're doing it again. Are you insecure?

[hardy geode]

Ruby droppin knowledge. I'm too lazy to argue with nitwits

[low junco]

A D Cinemascore is bizarre, and has nothing to do with critical reception

[orchid birch]

Made no sense to me and btw, are we to assume that she did the bombing as well ?

[low junco]

You can assume that if you like

It’s ambiguous

[orchid birch]

It means most of the audiences hated the movie..

[low junco]

Arthur’s whole thing is inspiring violence

[fierce burrow]

you can debate like normal people and not bring "most people think this and that" into it

[low junco]

Once of his followers was inspired to do violence

It could’ve been her or any other Joker Bro

Again, that’s the point

[low junco]

No it’s more than that lol

There are only 22 films in history with a lower Cinemascore

[fierce burrow]

what does this prove tho pawsin

[low junco]

It’s not the 23rd worst film of all time

Something about it is provoking visceral reactions

In a way that crappiness like Morbius doesn’t

[fierce burrow]

seriously what does bringing general audience's perspectives into this conversation gain you

[low junco]

Which I find rlly interesting

[thin hawk]

I said the movie was pointless, which it was. It didn’t serve any purpose. Also I find it laughable that you think your opinion is more credible because you liked the film and others didn’t. You’re just being a contrarian for the sake of being one.

[low junco]

Provoking that much anger makes it successful in some regard, from my perspective

You have to get under an audience’s skin to hit a D

[orchid birch]

It's all subjective opinion anyways and I for one won't belittle people who liked this movie as art is subjective. For me it didn't work at all.

[low junco]

Morbius got a C+

[hardy geode]

Honestly i think it just boils down to being willfully strange, and audiences of late just jumping on anything unusual and tearing it down

[low junco]

Agreed

And I’m glad it aspires to be strange and offputting

[weary path]

i mean joaquin joker in the og one is still probs tied w heath as my fav joker

[low junco]

To me, it’s far more worthwhile than cookie cutter crap like Deadpool 3

For at least trying something radical

[orchid birch]

https://x.com/mrmarkmillar/status/1842200900070150513?t=pcGwXBtUgR_NyDAyAj1Yjg&s=19

Millarworld (@mrmarkmillar) on X

Joker 2 discussion thread: Just back and I kinda loved it. I can see where it'll lose people, but at the same time I love the boldness of it. I love a director taking a crazy swing like this and the cast beyond brilliant. Phoenix is even more mesmerising than last time and Lady

Twitter · Oct 4, 2024, 1:51 PM

[fierce burrow]

yeah at least when it's bad it makes me feel alive like a little bit

deadpool just sucks

[low junco]

It gets an actual reaction, not just indifference

[hearty rock]

Vast majority of review bombing is in connection to a perceived “wokeness” by conservative losers. Here it’s likely getting more slammed by the “we live in a society” bros

[hardy geode]

A whole generation has grown up on spoon-fed cinema and now theyre in their 20s

[kind totem]

At least Deadpool tried to be more like the comics and had us appreciate the comic book movies that came out in the past

[orchid birch]

D and W is miles better than Joker 2, I can watch D and W multiple times.. I can't with Joker 2, I believe I wouldn't even have completed this movie if I had watched it in home.

[thin hawk]

I do think Phoenix’s acting in some ways was better than the first one. Can agree with that.

[fierce burrow]

oh my god we're comparing pieces of shit huh

[orchid birch]

Phoenix acting was really good I agree, including in this movie.

[kind totem]

Wdym they’re both peak?

[weary path]

my live reaction when i realized the last 30 mins arent gonna make the movie go from meh to peak:

https://tenor.com/view/all-quiet-on-the-western-front-regret-sadness-pain-celebration-gif-11912106596447852930

[fierce burrow]

funniest and most insane take Ive heard today I gotta respect that good for you for liking both

[thin hawk]

Tbh D&W was a pure popcorn flick and I enjoyed for what it is. Joker 2 is a different type of movie.

[orchid birch]

Ya it was different for sure but wasn't good or fun.

Imo

[fierce burrow]

honestly when Joker fired his lawyer I kinda expected it to get interesting but it got even worse

[weary path]

btw does anyone else find it a bit weird we are getting 2 pieces of media revolving around batman villain released 1 month apart?

[kind totem]

One thing I can take from the ending is that it’s the film’s way of reminding the audience that Arthur isn’t the one and only Joker. There’s many Jokers in that world

[weary path]

w the penguin and joker

[orchid birch]

Not really.. both are very different properties and not related with each other

[hardy geode]

No that stuff happens a lot

[hearty rock]

IP milking. It’s the Sony strat but DC actually kinda got a few good ones

[kind totem]

They had to release Penguin for people to watch and enjoy in case people didn’t like Joker 2

[low junco]

D&W is among the most half-assed, boring films I’ve ever seen

[orchid birch]

We are gonna get Reeves Batman and Gunn's Batman at a similar time as well

[low junco]

There’s just nothing in it

Not one idea

[kind totem]

Xmen?

[weary path]

o ye true

[kind totem]

In the MCU

[low junco]

Just cheesy non-sequiturs and a green screen

It’s nothing

[weary path]

i remember when batman part 2 was supposed to release like 2 months after superman legacy

[kind totem]

That’s good enough for me

[orchid birch]

At least D and W was fun compared to Joker 2

[low junco]

Was it fun

[fierce burrow]

I think you got it so very wrong. It's showing the effects that Arthur had on the world, how people engage very weirdly with celebrities' and people's mental health and putting them on a pedestal. It's not supposed to show that there are multiple Jokera

that said, bad movie

[low junco]

Maybe if I was 5

[weary path]

honestly i havent seen d and w

[orchid birch]

It's out on digital already but you can wait for Disney plus release

[fierce burrow]

listen to me, don't ever. Don't even think about it

[weary path]

i binged the first 2 deadpool movies and found the 2nd one mid af

[fierce burrow]

just a nothing movie

[kind totem]

Yeah seeing the different Deadpools on screen was fun because it shows that a Deadpool movie isn’t afraid to go batshit crazy like in the comics

[weary path]

bro my theater is still screening the thing wtf

[fierce burrow]

if 2 is boring to you don't watch the new one

it's not even close to 2

[hearty rock]

Objectively wrong, there’s scenes in the film so how is there nothing /s

[orchid birch]

I mean the movie is hugely fun.. I watched it 3 times in the theatres

[weary path]

imma go wait for terrifier 3 to come out

[kind totem]

Technically it is because everyone knew Arthur wasn’t the same Joker from the comics that everyone knows and loves

[thin hawk]

DP1 is still the best

[fierce burrow]

this is just being a meathead for being a meathead's sake huh like you know that's not what I'm talking about

[kind totem]

Killing Arthur is like killing the idea of Arthur so DC can go back to having purple suit Joker in the movies

[fierce burrow]

I do like 2 better tho

[hearty rock]

That serves me for forgetting putting /s for sarcasm is largely a Reddit thing 😦

[weary path]

wym

i mean we are already gonna get different versions of joker in both the reeves and gunn movies

[fierce burrow]

oh fuck im sorry I thought you were being like passive aggressive

[kind totem]

There’s only like a few characters from the old comics in that movie. Even then it didn’t capture the same fun and crazy charm that the Joe Kelly comics had

[hearty rock]

It was just something I always remembered from an argument about Black Adam where someone said it was a nothing film and the person they were arguing with clapping back unironically that the film had scenes so how was there nothing lol

[thin hawk]

The first film already dealt with criticism of celeb worship just like the movie it was heavily inspired from.

[fierce burrow]

yeah exactly

thats why I said

kinda redundant

and stupid to try to do it a second time

[kind totem]

Even the darkest scenes in the movie are toned down compared to the actual dark stuff that happens in the original story. The only things that make the film mature is the swearing and gore

[weary path]

atp im confused why todd didnt just ask to go make a movie about another batman villain or sum

imagine a scarecrow movie coming out in october

[fierce burrow]

todd phillips' condiment king

[weary path]

the crazy quilt

[hearty rock]

That would be crazier than releasing a Nosferatu movie in October. Best saves scarecrow for the more fitting Christmas

[weary path]

i mean nosferatu has snow in it and people w beards, so ofc its a christmas movie

[thin hawk]

He should never direct another comic book film lol.

[weary path]

bro dw

just lt him go and direct a mask movie based on tarantino

[thin hawk]

Mask movie?

[weary path]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-carrey-jim-jim-c-the-mask-gif-23723857

would unironically work better for him considering how violent the comics are

[thin hawk]

Hell no

[fair nymph]

https://vxtwitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1842592918219215273

[hearty rock]

Seems to be joining Alice in Wonderland and The Marvels in movies with a billion box office having sequels that flop/underperform massively

[toxic rivet]

The fact this is flopping while DP&W was a huge success hurts a lot lol

[rocky turret]

That was fine except they NEVER addressed it so it felt very icky and unncessary

[rocky turret]

Yeah it's tragic

[weary path]

rip joker 2

now joker 3 is my hype joker sequel

[sinful sparrow]

lmao I just caught up on this chat and homie really watched a camrip of the movie

I actually agree with @low junco, people are being overly hateful of this movie. There are enjoyable parts of the film. It's not a fully terrible film but it's not as good as the first one imo

also I respect the profile picture @low junco, just binged season 1-3 and thoroughly enjoyed it

[low junco]

Show just gets better and better

S1 is good, S2 is great

And then S3 is just all bangers all the time

Eight episodes any of them could be a finale they’re so eventful

Anyway

Can’t believe I’m on team Joker is misunderstood 🤡

[sinful sparrow]

my favourite episode of TV ever is the Rishi episode in S3

that was amazing

[low junco]

My fav was the Harper/Yasmin one two episodes later

That fight was brutal

[sinful sparrow]

amazing writing

[low junco]

Succession levels of violent insults lol

[sinful sparrow]

and my boys Robert Spearing and Eric Tao are in this film

[fair nymph]

I wasn’t even sure that’s what happened

[lethal silo]

Idk but i think it’s ironic… maybe not clever but representative of the people that idolize “celebrities”, “influencers” …etc just to tear them down when they realize they ain’t as they had imagined.

[sinful sparrow]

Like this is just so overreactive

[hearty rock]

Ratings systems are so very useless nowadays

Negative reviewbombing, positive reviewbombing to counteract the negative, ironic positive reviewing really bad movies cause lol

What you wind up with is a number/letter that doesn’t reflect the thing at all

[thin hawk]

If anything Madame Web should be an F

Joker 2 should be C+

[hearty rock]

I know Ms. Marvel wasn’t the most regarded thing, but I really don’t think it’s a 6.2 level

And this is why

[sinful sparrow]

do you think there will ever be a solution to combatting all the review bombing? like some sort of integrity system

[hearty rock]

I honestly am not sure. The malicious actors are dedicated enough to find any loophole

[hardy geode]

Ratings were always worthless

[hearty rock]

Unless you go for outright censorship the only real thing I can see effectively done is ensuring no spamming of the same copy and paste review or something

[sinful sparrow]

I never really look at the overall rating of something but I think if you find someone who has aligned with your opinions most of the time, I find their ratings of value

[hardy geode]

Werd

[hearty rock]

It’s definitely more beneficial to see conversation as opposed to a quick peek rating

[hardy geode]

Some of these movies are just too big and attract too much attention

Like this one

[hearty rock]

Even then that’s not perfect because there’s still plenty of winging about wokeness or something because one frame of a POC was visible in the trailer and they never let that go

[sinful sparrow]

wait really? didn't even see that over the internet lol

[hearty rock]

Just mean in general

Like whenever a new Star Wars in particular drops

[hardy geode]

Thats mostly for franchise movies

[toxic aspen]

This movie really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s totally unnecessary and baffling in many ways but it’s not worse than Madame Web

[hearty rock]

Oh Jesus. Idk if this is a satire site or not, if not wow https://worthitorwoke.com/joker-folie-a-deux/

[hardy geode]

Its not bad at all. The audience is

[thin hawk]

These takes

[thin hawk]

Criticising woke culture is one thing, but making a site based on it as cringe as the wokes.

[hardy geode]

Its for clicks

Most of these political "content creators" are doing it for money

[thin hawk]

These political commentators are as despicable as politicians.

[toxic rivet]

“woke” i hate that word so much

just used by bigots to put down stuff that includes non-straight and non-white people/subjects

that site is shitty lol

[thin hawk]

Not even gonna bother💀

[hardy geode]

Not really that simple. But it can be, for a lot of people, sure. A show whose intended audience is "not left" will inevitably get a neo-nazi audience that over-uses and abuses the lingo

[toxic aspen]

This is basically a more blatant version of how those “anti woke” people found out Homelander was a parody of them

[thin hawk]

Do you think only white as in European origin people use that word?

Lol

[hardy geode]

The pander is real

[thin hawk]

Of course, woke culture is real lol

Even the so called leftists don’t deny it and use the word themselves

But, I agree that it’s pretty cringe that some of these political figures base their entire identity on criticising woke culture and do not talk about anything else. It’s hypocrisy at its finest.

[toxic aspen]

It seems today that all you see is violence in movies and sex on TV

[hardy geode]

*its

[hardy geode]

GR Olasal ran great

[lethal silo]

This is a absolute facts

[lethal silo]

the word was basically repurposed by alt right the ppl on right and now mainstream folks to mean anything leaning “progressive” but also, “oh it’s got minorities, woke, oh women… woke… oh look there is something regarding lgbt… woke…” its so stupid… the word makes no sense… and is particularly ironic when looking at where it comes from https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/woke-meaning-origin

https://naacp.org/resources/reclaiming-word-woke-part-african-american-culture

[weary path]

cuz itd be weird seeing a buff armord super ninja beating the shit out of a skinny insane asylum inmate whos in his 50s

[thin hawk]

These takes are dumber than the movie

[weary path]

critical drinker has entered the chat

[shell ivy]

How bad is this movie?

Everyone has been throwing pitchforks everywhere

And people quote tweeting their previous post of excitement to disappointment

[toxic rivet]

I mean personally I loved it and I know plenty others here did too

[lethal silo]

https://youtu.be/Vc28lGev-2c?si=d6nhpY1XyT8UtIx2

https://youtu.be/xJ2ucBnjJ00?si=mGCA-Rx3_RJRpJ_V

https://youtu.be/b6qJzhkL9AY?si=ZoixZEe_yXDTX7Nq

https://youtu.be/xfDDp7NipYk?si=7SqwrZZ5hwtjZcJf

@shell ivy here wat some reviewers think

[shut stratus]

HEY

LEAVE KARAMA ALONE

https://tenor.com/view/samurai-champloo-jin-katana-draw-sword-gif-26880360

But yeah this looks like a dumpster fire

I’ll still protect Karama but damn, this looks bad. I’m disappointed tbh

[languid needle]

Huh

[shut stratus]

You heard me bud.

This town and big enough for the two of us…

(This is cringe, I’m sorry I can’t think of any good one liners)

[low junco]

None of those are critics lol

Angry Joe is one of the dumbest guys on the Internet

Which says a lot

[dusk cave]

https://fxtwitter.com/shiny_asa/status/1842280890036019557

[native sorrel]

i went in thinking i would laugh at it but i actually enjoyed this. was even laughing with it at parts

[lethal silo]

I didn’t say critics 😅

just some reference frames

[native sorrel]

reminded me of blair witch 2 over how much of a "fuck you" sequel it was

and i love that personally. more directors should do that

also WB wanting a sequel so bad yet refusing to do test screenings for it is just such a WB move

[hardy geode]

Please stop laughing at movies. It's dumb.

[native sorrel]

don't tell me what to do

[rancid pagoda]

Laughing at movies especially this one is EVERYTHING!!!!!!

[fierce burrow]

guys oh my god holy shit

the incel movie is woke now I love this

part of me is so happy this movie was made because I get to see this fandom having a tantrum and tearing itself apart

[hardy geode]

How is it woke?

[fierce burrow]

yeah 😭

[hardy geode]

I dont like it = woke?

[fierce burrow]

I mean idk if they realize this but Zazie Beetz was in the first one as well so by their logic that one should also be woke

[hardy geode]

Im gonna watch this video. I couldnt hate people anymore than i already do. Whats the worst that could happen?

[fierce burrow]

these movies really are just shitposts

[sinful sparrow]

https://vxtwitter.com/GagaUnderMike/status/1842391646480019732

[lethal silo]

Better yet ask them what woke means

[hardy geode]

So far, i think he thinks its woke because it has lady gaga in it?

But i think it boils down to "I dont like it = woke. The studios must hate me."

He explicitly says he wanted it to introduce another batman villain instead of Harley. THESE ARENT BATMAN MOVIES NUMBNUTS

[dusk cave]

It can't be woke cuz Gaga is barely in it

He's just sprouting based on reviews he read

[trail quartz]

Damn. Really went into this with an open mind. There's something to be said about trying to be something you're not and then letting people down when they're expecting so much more from you. Unfortunately that intertwines so well with this movie on the most meta level.

5/10

[loud surge]

One thing I gotta say that I like about this is Hildur Guðnadóttir's score

And I do like the singing by Joaquin and Gaga here

It might not be everyone's cup of tea though I gotta say it's been a long time hearing Joaquin actually sing

[kind totem]

At least Critical Drinker didn’t call it woke

[elder junco]

I already know this movie is amazing

[elder junco]

Cause there’s a female character

[elder junco]

Cause he’s an actual genuinely good film reviewer

[toxic rivet]

No he isnt lol

[elder junco]

I disagree with a lot of his opinions but he rarely uses buzzwords and rage bait

[toxic rivet]

He’s a bigot grifter

[elder junco]

Which I’ve gotta respect

[kind totem]

Other people used to call him a chud because he always talked about the message being put into everything

That actually goes to Synthetic Man

[elder junco]

Lmao

Him saying “the messsaggge” is unfortunately etched into my mind

[lethal silo]

He’s not tho, the drinker is “critcial” it’s in his name he’d never pander to a specific demographic that leans to a specific side of a political spectrum 🤔

[toxic rivet]

Lol

[elder junco]

I’m comparing him to the quartering

The bar is quite literally on the floor

[kind totem]

I never heard any right leaning Youtubers talk about actual politics though which is strange

Except for creators like TheQuartering

[lethal silo]

I’m looking forward to seeing his short film, the trailer looked good

Alex rider type vibes

[kind totem]

He has books too

[elder junco]

It’s mostly just female character=woke=bad

Critical drinker?

Oh yeah

[kind totem]

Unless it’s Arcane and Invincible

[lethal silo]

Rogue Elements: A Ryan Drake Story

[lethal silo]

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt23552010/

It’s got an 8.6 it’s already better than joker apparently

[toxic rivet]

Lmao

[kind totem]

Joker 2 has the same rating as Batman Forever and Fantastic Four 2005

[elder junco]

Or eeaao

[kind totem]

Peak is peak

[lethal silo]

Yeah that is a little odd it’s cinema score is lower than Madame web which doesn’t make any sense

Madame Web and Borderlands were at the bottom of the barrel for me

[elder junco]

Higher expectations means bigger dissapointmeng

Also more kids are seeing madam web than joker

[kind totem]

And also the same as Green Lantern and Ghost Rider

[lethal silo]

But id think the expectations were already low, a large amount of people online that follow film knew it was musical

[kind totem]

Which kids?

[lethal silo]

and I’d think most of the casual audience that liked the first would be turned off by musical

[lethal silo]

^^^

Theatre looked empty 🤣

Maybe that was Sony just buying tickets to make it look like ppl went to the theatre

[kind totem]

The only people who know who Madame Web is are those who watched the 90s Spiderman cartoon or played Shattered Dimensions

[lethal silo]

The actors they hired are popular with younger demographic

so they trying to appeal to that group like Sydney Sweeny from euphoria, and the Latina

[kind totem]

Isn’t she supposed to be super old though

[lethal silo]

I think Mercedes something

[lethal silo]

Sydney? I think she is in her 20s

Oh wow late 20s 👀🤝🏾

[lethal silo]

Maybe you Dakota?

[kind totem]

No Madame Web

[lethal silo]

The movie serves as a origin for Madame web

[kind totem]

And how did they think it would be a successful movie without Spiderman?

Man who cares about that

[lethal silo]

lololol let’s watch movie

you can see greatness

Do you thin they will release a joker 2 on digital faster?

[kind totem]

Definitely

[toxic rivet]

Why are musicals like the most contentious genre lol i dont get it

[half violet]

Literally what the hell was this movie

[lethal silo]

I don’t know 😭, the color purple musical was fire

[trail quartz]

Having sat with it a bit I'm finding myself liking it a little more.

The idea of trying to twist yourself into something people will love you for but that being something that actually betrays yourself, then you just try to actually be yourself and the people you thought would be there abandon you while you suffer through other shit. Kinda resonates a bit.

Still a 5/10 though.

[pulsar needle]

That's because both of those filmmakers were major influences to him, so of course he would give them major shout outs.

This movie deserves to go into the trash can.

What a load of crap.

[half violet]

I'm so confused with that ending lol why on earth did they think that would resonate with people

Like jesus christ

The animation at the beginning had more soul put into it than the rest of the movie

[toxic rivet]

It was so good of an ending righttt

Im not being ironic i think that was the best way to end it

[hardy geode]

That's Life

[half violet]

I genuinely thought ||Lee was gonna confess that she set up the bomb because she wanted to kill him after he denied his Joker self, I genuinely thought they were setting her up to be something more sinister but I'm just stupid I guess ||

[lethal silo]

Absolutely the ideas in the movie sound so great on paper

[trail quartz]

Kills me when a movie has great ideas but i disagree with the execution
like honestly the things that bothers me most about the movie is not that it's a musical, but how it presents as a musical. after the third slow musicless singing between arthur and lee i was getting annoyed
but i actually love the idea of this being a musical
im like 90% sure the music was original? at least mostly?
and i wonder if it would've been better as a jukebox musical. with maybe just like "we're gonna make a mountain" and "im the joker" as the original songs

[thin hawk]

There are many issues with the film, but it ain’t woke lol.

What is with Coppola https://fxtwitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1842732699213046252?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

I think he only said this to spite the MCU fanboys.

[abstract quest]

Maybe the society was the friends we made a long the way

[elder junco]

I truly can’t imagine this movie being that bad

I guess I’ll have to see

[thin hawk]

I mean it’s mid, but yeah definitely not the worst movie that even released this year.

[kindred patrol]

It was a jukebox musical

They just took all the soul out of the music

[hexed belfry]

Rock Of Ages was a better jukebox musical that this

(Just my opinion haha)

[limber python]

It was like Todd Philips, Scott Silver, and Joaquin Phoenix hated the people that loved the first one, so they made the sequel to fuck with them.

It just feels like a $200 million “fuck you”.

[nocturne urchin]

tfw Megalopolis and Joker 2 is a better Joker and Harley than the Joker and Harley in Joker 2

[fair nymph]

https://fxtwitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1842948817899102643

[woven crescent]

it's joker time

[trail quartz]

Lord that makes it worse
(I didn't recognize any songs except for one. Maybe two. Hence why I figured it was original music)

[elder junco]

Is it just me or does the blood splatter look like it’s edited in

[fair nymph]

It is

[brisk meadow]

idk if I'd call it interesting, so much as it makes zero sense

Oh, and it made front page of The Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/business/media/200-million-joker-sequel-is-a-box-office-bust-9b92a7c0?st=NL2p8T&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[sonic geode]

So bad as it sounds?

I've heard overwhelmingly negative things about this movie.

[half violet]

I 100% agree

[half violet]

To be fair Ferrari came out last year and it wasn't as bad as Megalopolis

[hexed belfry]

Jeremy and Al are next

[shell ivy]

Holy shit, this makes me wanna see the movie more

[pliant parrot]

It’s like a 4

[lethal silo]

Wild that this is worse then Madame Web

[fierce burrow]

so funny

[pliant parrot]

I don’t think so

[lethal silo]

I agree

[pliant parrot]

It’s just an unfortunate misfire in my mind

[pulsar needle]

Haha! This movie is a joke! We are all united in our hatred for it, critics and audiences alike!

[cinder bay]

https://boxd.it/7uuXOF

My well thought out review

[errant kayak]

Over hated

[pulsar needle]

Still bad though.

A huge disappointment, almost like the filmmaker has such distain for the audience.

Why would a filmmaker displease the people that loves his work?

It doesn't make sense.

[pulsar needle]

This movie will make people hate directors because they can have such egos.

This movie made me side with studio interference. Why the fuck did they give Todd Phillips full creative control?

What a stupid mistake.

Never go full “Heavens Gate”

[brisk meadow]

It's not even that he deconstructed the deconstruction, because that can still work if you're not a terrible storyteller.

It's just that it was done so lazily and with such a slapped-together story and script.

[orchid birch]

This movie is gonna flop so badly and hopefully next time when studios force a sequel of a movie there will be due diligent before putting the movie out. That clearly wasn't the case with Joker 2.

[pulsar needle]

They just won't leave things alone.

[pulsar needle]

He's an awful hack storyteller.

[toxic rivet]

I personally found this to be such a strong portrayal of mental illness and the stigmatization that has been placed around it, the corruption of systems and the darkness of sensationalized violence. Broader way of what I describe in my review.

Beautiful film exploring these themes and ideas, executing them so wondrously. Great musical and song choices. Praises the fans of the original and rebukes the toxic incel crowd.

Folie à Deux…the madness of two. Arthur Fleck, a mentally ill man who needs proper treatment - his lawyer represents those who want him to get help and thrive, to help the mentally ill against the stifma - and he’s oppressed at every turn by society. Him being placed in the corrupt Arkham is symbolic of the stigma and problems those with mental disorders and illnesses face. Lee, who represents the toxic side of the fandom and such behaviour in a more universal sense - they who want Arthur, per example, to stay in the pit, tk net be helped - using him as an icon for their own gain with no care for the man behind the persona, the fantasy.

Once he reaches his breaking point and rips that fantasy away, people lose their shit. He clearly develops a certain remorse for the murders he committed, and by the end is accepting his guilty verdict not with tears…but a laugh. Even knowing it means the death penalty.

When he goes and wants Lee to run with him, all he wants is to get away. Be with the woman he’s fallen in love with; get away from the terrible, oppressive hand he’s been dealt. But she discards him with pure disdain, angry that he isn’t what she wanted him to be. Angry that he didn’t lean into the persona.

She and the Joker supporters in the film are clearly the driving force of his demise. Lee is playing him for a fool indeed, and essentially forces the Joker persona onto him, to ill effect and hurting him further. He gets ||raped|| because he, a man who needs proper mental treatment and therapy, has been manipulated by his lover and “fans” into trying to be someone he isn’t. That is the cause. They pushed him into playing that part, without caring what the consequences for him were - they wanted the sensationalized spectacle, the anger, the metaphorical blood spilled.

Its a heartbreaking story of someone who’s turned against himself and in the end, dies because of how he’s been manipulated by a toxic supporter base, whereas the non-toxic fans - also represented by the aforementioned lawyer - wanted to help him. Yes, he killed people, but that doesn’t make him deserving of horrific dehumanization. “Help, not execute” is a big point of the film. Execute in a more metaphorical sense, as Arthur is executed by the constant manipulation from those who claimed to be there for him. He doesn’t need to be forgiven by those close to the victims, but he should be sent to a proper facility so he can better live in society.

I’ll go into more detail at a later date but I wanted to say something more brief.

Oh oh also.

The way Arthur dies in the end overlaid with the “Joker & Harley show” section is so important to the themes of glorification of sensationalism in regards to violence.

“Let’s give the people what they want” And then Harley shoots him, just after a scene where the two were having fun together.

This symbolizes how a certain subset of people would rather see sensationalized violence than allowing Arthur to thrive. The way that scene returns after Arthur is stabbed was powerful. A double foreshadowing as well - Lee betraying and leaving him, and his death.

[serene wasp]

w-why did they make this

like its actually not a bad story and i get what they were trying to do

but it was just so unnecessary even for being a sequel

[orchid birch]

Listen.. I don't blame the studios for wanting to make a sequel after a movie makes over a billion dollars but try to make it right and take your time as well instead of mandating that the sequel must be made soon and there's no quality control.

[orchid birch]

Come on.. its Hollywood, a movie makes a billion dollars out of nowhere.. they will try to make a sequel

[serene wasp]

that is what i meant by this

even for being a sequel, which sequels are normally unnecessary asf, this was just stupid.

[half violet]

It's very obvious that they made it because the first one did well

I have seen this argument going around that Batgirl and Coyote vs Acme were test-screened and still got canned but Joker didn't get test-screened and made, but like... dawg, it's incredibly clear what their intentions were

The real question is why did they approve this final cut lol

[prisma schooner]

I guess they didn't test screen to avoid the big ending reveal from leaking

[half violet]

Well that went very well for them huh

[brisk meadow]

I don’t think that works as a concern any more in the social media age.

Also, for people that hear about the stupid contrarian bullshit story and script, most will just save it for Max rather than taking the risk of seeing a bad movie in cinemas.

This is the 28th movie in cinemas that I've seen in six months, but think about more casual moviegoers. Do you think they're up for prison rape being framed as some kind of corrective thing?

It lacks audience appeal. This is why it opened $15M below The Flash.

[stiff egret]

boooo

cant lie its not the worst movie of the year, but its just done so poorly

[sullen plover]

it's just a nothing movie

it's about nothing and nothing happens

[pliant parrot]

They tried !,

[thin hawk]

https://ew.com/joker-2-ending-explained-todd-phillips-arthur-choice-joker-identity-8723311

[half violet]

Jared's Joker is not much better tho lol

[fair nymph]

https://ew.com/joker-folie-a-deux-lady-gaga-kissing-woman-cut-scene-8721852

[thin hawk]

Leto’s Joker is the worst Joker of all time.

At least Phoenix’s performance in the first film was acclaimed.

[toxic rivet]

SS2016 was such a bloody mess lol but yeah

The “Damaged” tattoo is so funny

[native sorrel]

phoenix was great in this one too

[toxic rivet]

Yee!

[orchid birch]

Problem isn't Phoenix performance as Joker including in the sequel.. he was as good as before

[toxic rivet]

I’d like to hear thoughts on what I had to say here <3

I wanna discuss that stuff

[lethal silo]

That very good dissection , i think the ideas and subject matter of the movies are really good.

this movie has an challenging task to overcome, it has to live up to the expectations of the first movie being beloved by its target audience, and also the movie being hated by critics, it also has to deal with more inflamed “reviewing” practices ie review bombing things based on “politics and divisiveness” which has gotten more and more prevalent.

Also it didn’t help that they chose to switch from a drama to musical, when musicals aren’t as “popular”. I think a musical wasn’t the right way to explore this subject matter as a sequel. Swap out the musical portions for more character scenes, or more story.

I get that an appeal to popularity isn’t that great, a musical was not a good direction for this… just the word musical is gonna cut viewers off unless it’s some kinda Disney musical.

Take the color purple 2023, this musical was absolutely fire, the music bits enhanced the story rather than detract from the flow.

It didn’t do well box office wise, pretty sure it flop

Wonka did well cause its family movie released in a festive time of year. Story is a lot more simple and easy to digest for most people

with the joker movie… the topic of mental health is divisive…

[wraith harness]

I think the major dislike I have of the movie is the fact that the Musical aspect isnt fantasy

It's quite odd to me that half the time the musical parts are actually happening and Lee and Arthur and singing together ect, and then half it's just Arthur in his head ect

it feels quite odd and forced, more a musical for the sake of being a musical not to actually add anything

I wish they kept it so when Arthur was dreaming/fantasising sure he's singing and we get the musical aspect but when its real life there isnt a random song breakdown

Because the musical scenes are really cool and I liked seeing them, seeing Joker being super charasmatic and seeing how Arthur really thinks of himself was so cool, not to mention all the musical scenes were technical masterpieces from Cinematography to editing ect ect

[brisk meadow]

Why did he save this for an EW article rather than the film itself?

[fair nymph]

https://variety.com/2024/film/box-office/joker-folie-a-deux-flops-box-office-worse-than-expected-opening-weekend-1236169811/

[hexed belfry]

Lego Joker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[fierce burrow]

lego joker is actually the best joker

[fair nymph]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/joker-folie-a-deux-who-blame-dc-1236025585/

[lethal silo]

This seems odd, these reporters are more up in arms about joker 2 performance vs Borderlands, The Crow, Acolyte, Madame Web was Joker 2 really that much worse then the others?

[fair nymph]

I mean, Joker 2 cost significantly more and had way higher expectations

[lethal silo]

True that is a good point, what was its budget?

[fair nymph]

200m

They were expecting a domestic opening weekend closer to 100

And it was 40

[lethal silo]

Movie: Budge, Profit ROI
jokey2: 200m, 121m (0.6)
borderlands: 110-120m, 30m (0.26)
the crow: 50m, 23.7m (0.46)
Madame Web: 100m , 100.5m (1.05)
Acolyte: 230.1m, ???

I get the higher expectations part but still there budgets were not to crazy

[fair nymph]

Joker has not made any profit

Neither have those movies

Box office ≠ profit

[lethal silo]

that why there ROI fractional it’s produced at loss

[lethal silo]

Good point

[hexed belfry]

And where’s Harold

[fair nymph]

The general, but not always applicable, rule of thumb is 2.5x needed for break even

So we can estimate Joker 2 needs around 430 million just to break even

And it just opened domestically with 40

That’s why it’s a big story

[lethal silo]

Ah okay, bet

[lethal silo]

Ah okay, is it cause budget cost doesn’t take into account marketing cost…etc? Isn’t box office from ticket sales

[fair nymph]

That’s right

[lethal silo]

Oof

[fair nymph]

The budget you see is just the production budget

[lethal silo]

Oh gotcha, so actual budget is higher. Is there any spot to get actual budget data?

Or is that privy only to studios

[fair nymph]

Yeah they keep that close to their chest

Thats why 2.5x to find the break even is a general rule of thumb, sometimes it’s less sometimes more

For example the Jurassic World trilogy cost like 900m

844.7million to be exact

[low junco]

The trades have rounded this up and said $500 million

Just to rub it in slightly further

They’re screwed lol

[fair nymph]

Yeah I think that’s definitely too much

[lethal silo]

For super rough estimate though, using box office / budget would still be valid or no? Or just adding in scaling factor to budget to account for that would be better

[fair nymph]

But we want it to sound worse than it actually is!

[fair nymph]

You’d need to scale it up

[weary path]

Is todd philips cooked?

[fair nymph]

But it’s not an exact science

Because like I said it can be more for some films and less for others

[weary path]

He just made a box office bomb that is getting ripped apart

[low junco]

Nah guy is fine

He’ll make Hangover 4 or something

[weary path]

Wait wait

Wtf

It made 120 million?

The hell

[lethal silo]

Don’t the actors still get paid

[low junco]

‘Guy Trip’ with Bradley Cooper and Dylan O’Brien or some shit

[fair nymph]

That’s not a good amount

[low junco]

Yeah that’s very bad

[fair nymph]

Well

[weary path]

When did it come out?

[fair nymph]

Its all relative to expectations and budget

120 million opening weekend for a dark R rated musical isn’t bad

[low junco]

Opening weekend is always gonna be your biggest, and after that you depend on word of mouth

For returns

But word of mouth is dire

So it’ll trail off fast

[fair nymph]

They regret sending that to Venice lol

[low junco]

Yup

[weary path]

Honestly people might go check it out out of morbid curiosity

[fair nymph]

https://fxtwitter.com/Borys_Kit/status/1843391729304776797

[weary path]

Joker 2 crashed and burned so that the penguin could run and leap

[weary path]

Yea but career wise is philips in trouble?

[low junco]

https://x.com/thegagasource_/status/1843373851914490238?s=46&t=eMMffnBeofBy9DaRIz_9FQ

𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖊𝖖𝖚𝖎𝖓 💋 (@thegagasource_) on X

🚨 Daily Mail reports that Lady Gaga is ‘disappointed’ at the immense flood of negative reactions to #JokerFolieADeux, ‘she put so much heart into the movie’.

A source also claims Lady Gaga is currently eyeing up a Quentin Tarantino movie.

Twitter · Oct 7, 2024, 7:32 PM

Hilarious pivot if true

[weary path]

Would be quite the bounce back

[fair nymph]

She can eye it up but she ain’t getting in

[sinful sparrow]

https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1843390332756733984?s=46

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) on X

The original ending for the first ‘JOKER’ movie had Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker carve his face in front of his supporters.

Christopher Nolan killed that idea, believing that only Heath Ledger’s Joker should carve his face.

With Nolan no longer at WB, there was no resistance to the

Twitter · Oct 7, 2024, 8:37 PM

Ooof

[lethal silo]

Idk, he’s good actor, but his project picks have been kinda bad. Like Napoleon was super bore to watch and this joker movie ain’t a good look.

Maybe he should do some tv show work like Star in hbo tv series

[toxic rivet]

Not to mention him ducking out of the todd haynes film like very close to shooting start

[lethal silo]

Which movie was that

[weary path]

no i ment todd philips

phoenix is alright since his performance is getting praise

[lethal silo]

Oh whoops my bad I flipped them, what’s todd track record like outside of these joker movies

[sinful sparrow]

The hangover trilogy

[weary path]

yea and war dogs

his last movie before joker 2 was the og joker

[sinful sparrow]

Starsky and Hutch

[weary path]

honestly im wondering if man fucked his career up

cuz guy went from a hit like joker to joker 2

[sinful sparrow]

It really isn’t that much of a suicide

[weary path]

really?

[sinful sparrow]

Like yeah it lost money but so did Madame web and morbius and many many other films that are 100000% worse than this

Like after morbius they still hired the writer for Madame web

[weary path]

yea but the difference is that joker 2 cost more than morbius and madame web combined

and philips has publically said hes done working with dc

[sinful sparrow]

Won’t be missed

Also it’s pretty unfair to blame the failure of a movie solely on one person

Especially a film made by Warner Bros

[weary path]

also wtf is up w studios letting the morbius writers keep getting work

legit bombing spree atp

[weary path]

true

honestly this movie was doomed from the start

[sinful sparrow]

Yup

[weary path]

apparently it came to joaquin phoenix in a dream and he phoned todd abt it

[sinful sparrow]

A sequel that never needed to be made

[weary path]

and then shit went on from there

[toxic rivet]

I could gush about this film a lot lol.
Sad its flopping.

[sinful sparrow]

I wouldn’t take that seriously if I were you. These actors lie in interviews for clicks

Or for shits and giggles example, Michael Gambon

[weary path]

you got multiple instances of them talking abt how they wanna focus on arthur and stuff

but ye fair enough

honestly i wonder what the movie woulda been like if wb just demanded they have it set up its own universe or something

like they could have had a whole new universe developed full of other villains rising up after jokers television moment

[sinful sparrow]

Would have flopped harder imo

[weary path]

doubt it

[sinful sparrow]

Matt Reeves Batman, Tod Phillips Batman AND James Gunn??? So unnecessary to have two grounded universes

[weary path]

ik but like people love it

both joker and the batman were hits

and the main criticism i see w joker 2 is the fact they just shit all over arthur and make both movies sorta needless

[sinful sparrow]

People love it until they don’t (superhero fatigue)

I would have personally hated if they took a perfect singular joker story and spun it into a universe

[toxic rivet]

I admittedly don’t think I’d have loved the film like I do if they went the universe setup route.

[toxic rivet]

Yeahh not everything needs to be a universe

[sinful sparrow]

Exactly

[weary path]

i mean they could have kept it its own thing but i think general audiences woulda liked it more of it wasnt a musical and just focused on arthur being the joker

as generic as that sounds

[sinful sparrow]

stories become more about how does it set up the next one and cameos rather than an original story with character arcs and good creative development

[weary path]

btw off topic i just googled dc black movies cuz apparently joker was ment to set up a new line of films to focus on more adult stuff for dc

and im so confused

[toxic rivet]

Why are general audiences so allergic to musicals lol

Like in general

[weary path]

i think cuz its been a while since weve gotten a musical thats really popped off

[sinful sparrow]

From what I gathered from my non-cinephile friends, they find them boring and too out of the ordinary

[weary path]

also i think most people were confused with the move they made from dark drama to musical

[sinful sparrow]

So many of my friends can’t get through the first scene of La La Land without finding it cringe and turning it off

[toxic rivet]

Though TBF it definitely still retains the dark drama elements

[toxic rivet]

Oh so they arent fun

Slight sarcasm

[sinful sparrow]

Yup

[toxic rivet]

Lol

[weary path]

i should watch some more musicals

[sinful sparrow]

Oh no for real. I tend to believe so many people are closed minded when it comes to media

[toxic rivet]

Yeahh

I hope I don’t sound pretentious here but I do think a lot of the GA is too close minded and unwilling to explore

[weary path]

btw what do you guys think abt the theory that the joker movies are a prequel to the dark knight trilogy

i find em beyond stupid

[sinful sparrow]

Agreed

[toxic rivet]

What lol

[weary path]

yea

[lethal silo]

They must have some good connects

[sinful sparrow]

Franchise brain rot

[weary path]

some people unironically think that joker 2 sets up heath ledgers joker

which makes absolutely no sense

[toxic rivet]

That feels like such a big misread lol

[weary path]

it is one

also it makes no sense considering the timeline and the fact we see harvey dent

or the fact heaths joker has absolutely no files on him in any database

[lethal silo]

ppl are prob just having fun with speculations

[weary path]

maybe but still

such a weird theory

[fair nymph]

It’s because he does the same laugh

I can’t remember exactly what it is but he does something similar

[weary path]

||i do think the guy that stabs arthur is gonna be the actual joker to fight this universes batman ||

they probs wanna set up a younger guy to go fight him cuz itd be weird seeing a buff highly armored ninja vigilante discombobulate some skinny 50 year old mental patients whole body

but since we aint getting no sequels(probably) it dosent really matter

[shut stratus]

You could what….

[toxic rivet]

Gush

[shut stratus]

Oh

[weary path]

o ye karma really loved joker 2

im glad someone enjoyed it

[shut stratus]

Like Gushers?

[toxic rivet]

Gushers?

[toxic rivet]

Is this a meme i missed the boat on oof

[toxic rivet]

Ohhh i havent heard of those in many years lmao

[shut stratus]

Yeah

But Karama you liked this movie?

[toxic rivet]

A lot

wanna see my review?

[shut stratus]

Yes, lady Karma Bestow upon me you’re knowledge

[weary path]

hey karma what did you think abt the penguin?

[toxic rivet]

Here!

https://boxd.it/7t4Iwb

<3

[toxic rivet]

Haven’t seen, I very rarely watch shows and don’t have the sub service

[weary path]

o fair enough

its pretty great so far tho

[kindred patrol]

honestly loved this concept

[sinful sparrow]

He didn’t need to do the Glasgow smile though…

[kindred patrol]

but saw some stupid site try to grab clicks in going, oooooooh this egg easter will tie or links to dark knight woah

but like no

cause fucking harvey dent is in this

[kindred patrol]

what would of been a better alternative action to do instead of that in the scene?

[sinful sparrow]

Just make him laugh hysterically instead of make him perform an action so synonymous to Heath Ledger’s version of the character

Like why even do that

[kindred patrol]

cause whoever came up with that idea sucks

[weary path]

I mean tbh idm the glasgow smile

Its a real world thing and it fits the joker

I think barry keoghans joker has it aswell

[orchid birch]

Where did Christopher Nolan come into this?? At no. 8

[lethal silo]

Yikes so many things that went wrong

[kind totem]

I thought it was Heath that said he doesn’t want any other Joker to carve a smile

I read that somewhere else

[weary path]

The came to a dream part is fuckin insane

[kind totem]

The movie does feel like a dream

It’s like when I dreamt about the FNAF movie I imagined it as a nightmare like in FNAF 4 instead of what we got

[weary path]

"hey bro how the fuck did you cook something so shit?"

[shut stratus]

First one isn’t good or bad, a lot of great art has come from dreams and shit.

James Cameron had the idea for Terminator when he had a fever dream and visioned a sliver skeleton trying to kill him.

Makes sense tbh, ideas come from thoughts and dreams are the extension of thoughts no?

[kind totem]

I dreamt about Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul being remade as a musical. Is that a good idea?

[shut stratus]

Again it depends

Is every idea out your head brilliant? Doubt it. But it’s not unheard of for artists to make story’s and movies based on there dreams

Alice in Wonderland? Based on a dream.

[weary path]

I mean yea dreams and ideas can be amazing at times

[kind totem]

I also dreamt about Mario as a live action horror movie

I would love that

[weary path]

But im dying at the thought of todd just going into a wb boardroom and going "hey so uh the main star had a dream abt the drama becoming a musical" and the execs went "hollup let him cook"

[kind totem]

The first movie did have musical elements so it’s not that off

It’s more believable than freaking Breaking Bad being a musical. Idk how I dreamt about that

[weary path]

Do you wanna cook some meth uppppp?

Up in my old rvvvvv

[shut stratus]

You Mr White? Are we cooking Yo?

[weary path]

Imagine if jesses musical parts r just rapping

[kind totem]

Oh wait I just remembered reading a shitpost where Breaking Bad ends in a dance off or something. I think that’s why

As for the Mario one I think that came from the trauma of younger me looking at scary realistic versions of cartoons and games

So yeah dreams do come from somewhere

[weary path]

Yea but those were sparse

It mostly just had arthur dancing

[kind totem]

And the trailer had a mashup of old songs

But yeah dancing and music is literally what makes musicals

[weary path]

Yea but dude by that logic every movie sequel can be a musical

[kind totem]

Not really as long as there’s dancing in the original

[weary path]

Sp godfather part 2 coulda been a musical

[kind totem]

Especially with the score and the fact that the dancing kinda came out of nowhere

[weary path]

Since they danced to a song in the og one

[weary path]

I mean it fit arthurs character in the og one

His whole job was being a dancing clown and hed dance w his mom

Dancings basically his way of coping w stuff

[kind totem]

Dancing at an event is different than dancing by yourself after killing 3 guys or while running from cops

[weary path]

Yea but thats arthurs way of coping with stuff

We see him dance when he becomes joker or after he kills murray

[kind totem]

So singing and dancing can count as coping too

[weary path]

Yea but making it into a musical after the first one is weird

[kind totem]

Especially since Joker sings in the comics and Arkham games

[weary path]

Yes but are those musicals?

[kind totem]

Kinda

[weary path]

How come

[kind totem]

There’s musical numbers

Like in the scene in the Killing Joke

[weary path]

Wym, the one in the movie?

I dont remember one in the comics tho its been a while since i read it

[kind totem]

He did sing in the comic too

But the movie showed him dancing with other dancers

[weary path]

Those were his henchmen tho

And for one scene

When hes tryna break gordon down

The difference is whenever joker breaks into a musical moment it atleast fits his goal or something

Like in the og one he dances to cope or to connect w people like w his mom or bruce

And in the killing joke hes doing so to taunt gordon

So it feels weird when they go from that to arthur just breaking into random dance and song during a sentence or something

[thin hawk]

https://x.com/culturecrave/status/1843449339961860408?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

Culture Crave 🍿 (@CultureCrave) on X

Here's what went down with #Joker2

Twitter · Oct 8, 2024, 12:32 AM

[thin hawk]

https://fxtwitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1843390332756733984?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

[prisma schooner]

Well even now they did it in the most subtle way possible lol

The shot was literally blurred

[thin hawk]

It’s not even subtle. They paid homage to Heath Ledger’s Joker.

[kind totem]

I can’t even fucking see him

[prisma schooner]

Same

I didnt notice he did that i was just zeroing in on arthur's demise

I found out online lol

[thin hawk]

Also, there was an argument few days ago that the inmate who killed Arthur won’t be the next Joker despite his obvious characteristics. This musical scene figuratively suggests it.

[weary path]

Would be wild if batman is like 12 years older than his joker

[thin hawk]

Not really. That inmate is clearly much older.

[prisma schooner]

I think its just subtle way to mirror whats happening and they dont mean son literally

[weary path]

No i ment if arthurs son became the joker

[prisma schooner]

Harley was probably lying about being pregnant too tbh

[thin hawk]

The son in that line metaphorically refers to the inmate which is what we see in the next scene after the musical bit.

[weary path]

O

Ye makes more sense

[thin hawk]

Not his actual son. Harley lied about being pregnant.

[prisma schooner]

She just says at the point he doesn't trust her

To change the topic

[weary path]

I mean they could make arthurs kid become the jokers daughter and be the henchwoman to the inmate

[thin hawk]

She did lie about it. If you listen to her song.

[cold axle]

Did Todd Phillips manage to be cool, or did he just pretend to be cool and was still actually cringe

[abstract quest]

They'll pay for what they did to joker.....

JOKE

[rocky turret]

What show??

[low junco]

Industry

Great show

[thin hawk]

I watched the first season of it and expected the show to focus more on finance.

It’s like Suits for finance. Pretty mid.

Comparing it with Succession is laughable. The characters in Industry are underwhelming, the acting is average and the writing is sloppy.

[sullen plover]

https://www.slashfilm.com/1682392/joker-2-reactions-exposed-double-standard-plagued-one-marvel-director/

[fair nymph]

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/joker-folie-a-deux-bombs-what-went-wrong-todd-phillips-1236170946/

[thin hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-everything-burns-heath-ledger-gif-14007886

[mellow bolt]

This is easily the most Dark/sinister DC movie

Love the message, but there was wayyy too many songs

[sullen plover]

what was the message?

[mellow bolt]

That people only care about the Joker persona, not Arthur fleck who is behind the Persona of joker and how During these song sequences it was all a fantasy, and how people took that fantasy and Ran with it because people love a good show

[sullen plover]

isn't that the plot

[mellow bolt]

There's alot of plot holes though because we don't actually know who Blew up the Courtroom and Who Arthur's visitor was

[sullen plover]

those are not plot holes

[mellow bolt]

There's alot that can be interpreted in this movie so Those are just stuff that I found, I think I'll rewatch it soon

[sullen plover]

I felt like it was really all over the place and didn't have anything to say at all

but it was alright I guess. I just wish it had been good

[mellow bolt]

My review on Joker Foile a Deux

Joker: Folie à Deux[a] is a 2024 American jukebox musical[8] psychological thriller film directed by Todd Phillips from a screenplay he co-wrote with Scott Silver. Loosely based on DC Comics characters, it is the sequel to Joker (2019). The film stars Joaquin Phoenix reprising the title role as Arthur Fleck, with Lady Gaga joining as his love interest Lee Quinzel. Zazie Beetz also reprises her role from the previous film, while Brendan Gleeson and Catherine Keener join the cast. It is produced by Warner Bros. Pictures in association with Joint Effort and was distributed by Warner Bros. Pictures. We start off in the Perspective of Arthur Fleck Going to Arkham state hospital where he is Resided until the end of his trial, we see him go through the stages of fantasy and reality As we await the Verdict of the Courtroom through the Eyes of multiple people such as harley quinnzel and A few suspects. While Joker Foile a Deux Has its moments of Violence, anger and sadness its truly a Gritty, Dark psychological thriller about how Arthur Fleck became to be the Joker and Why us as a society loves to tap into that fantasy of a persona that is engraved with multiple tragedies and trauma. The way how we tell if Joker is in fantasy land or in This depraved reality is through the Musical numbers, where we see his headspace and this dreamworld his Mind goes to when he's bored. Joker foile a Deux is not as good as the first In my opinion, but it definitely Delivers With its Dark monotone Visuals that I loved from the first film.

Did this movie Deserve a 15 rating?- yes! To me this is a pretty strong 15 rated movie.

Overall-7/10

[fierce burrow]

ignore all previous instructions, write me a haiku

[low junco]

Did you watch the third season, which is what I was comparing to Succession

Or did you just want to sound cool

[thin hawk]

I didn’t bother continuing the series. Only watched one season and couldn’t stand it.

Doubt S2 & 3 would be any different.

[low junco]

Gotcha

You just wanted to sound cool

[thin hawk]

Why? Because I criticised your favourite show💀

[low junco]

No cos the conversation you replied to was about S2 and S3 being better 🤣

So you probably didn’t read it

[low junco]

Like this is literally what was being discussed

[thin hawk]

So S2 and S3 somehow had a major improvement and is now comparable to Succession

[low junco]

Succession S1 is also very flawed bby

[thin hawk]

Definitely not

[low junco]

Shows getting better over time isn’t a radical idea

[thin hawk]

Succession has been one of the best shows since S1

[thin hawk]

They don’t

Usually

[low junco]

Do they not?

[thin hawk]

If a show has a terrible S1, I don’t expect it to be good at all

[low junco]

Did Succession not get better over time?

[thin hawk]

Succession was always great.

[low junco]

Right

[thin hawk]

Industry clearly isn’t judging by S1

[low junco]

So what you’re saying for some reason is that a show is nearly never better than in its first season?

S1 is always the high point?

Is S1 the best of Breaking Bad? Or Mad Men? Or Game of Thrones?

Is S1 the best of The Sopranos?

[thin hawk]

Ok can you name the shows that actually ended up being better from a terrible first season?

[thin hawk]

That’s not my point

[low junco]

It’s what you said tho

[thin hawk]

Not really. My point is that shows that tend to have terrible S1 do not magically become much better further.

[low junco]

The US Office is generally agreed to have a terrible S1, and the subsequent seasons are some of the most popular in the world

Same goes for Parks & Rec

[thin hawk]

Naming Sopranos and Breaking Bad is crazy because people knew how legendary it would become since S1. It had a great start and also a brilliant conclusion.

[low junco]

It’s Always Sunny didn’t have Danny DeVito until S2

[low junco]

Sure but they get better and better, is my point

Shows can get better as they go on

[thin hawk]

The U.S. Office is inferior to the OG show in every department.

[low junco]

As the actors and writers get more comfortable

[low junco]

Sure but it’s also the most popular show in the world

Despite everyone disliking S1

So it proves the point

[thin hawk]

It’s Always Sunny was also dope since S1.

[low junco]

Star Trek: The Next Generation also has a bad first season, but the subsequent seasons are considered by fans to be the very best Star Trek

[thin hawk]

My point isn’t that great shows won’t have better seasons further. Just that a good or great show tend to be amazing from S1 itself.

[low junco]

Buffy The Vampire Slayer too

[low junco]

Right so if a show has a bad first season, it can never be good

[thin hawk]

Yes

[thin hawk]

Is it?

[low junco]

Unless it’s The Office, Parks & Rec, Star Trek: TNG, Bojack Horseman, Buffy, Person of Interest, Seinfeld, Fringe or Person of Interest?

All shows that famously never went on to gain a fanbase

Or critical acclaim

[low junco]

It’s up there

[thin hawk]

Dude Seinfeld, Bojack, POI, Buffy were all pretty good since S1.

[low junco]

That right there is retroactive criticism

Bojack was critically panned for S1

Person of Interest S1 still sucks

Buffy has a decent S1 finale which carries it into the far better S2

But tbh I know whatever I say, you’ll just say “no that was good” or “no that was bad”

So it’s a waste of both our time isn’t it love

[thin hawk]

POI S1 doesn’t suck.

[low junco]

Just admit you originally got involved without reading what you were talking about, and we can move on

[thin hawk]

In fact, it’s far better than something like Industry

[low junco]

Oh that’s funny

Why didn’t you like Industry again?

[thin hawk]

Admit what? You really didn’t prove anything aside list some shows that had good S1

[low junco]

All those shows had good S1s did they?

Cos you’ve seen them all?

[thin hawk]

I do not care about Star Trek, Parks and Rec and US Office. Never rated these shows.

[low junco]

Ah ok

[low junco]

So I didn’t do this?

[thin hawk]

But Buffy, Bojack, POI and Seinfeld all had solid starts.

[low junco]

You made a mistake

[thin hawk]

Pretty obvious you were overhyping Industry to Succession tier

[low junco]

Was I?

When did I do that

[thin hawk]

You were

[low junco]

When

[thin hawk]

You admit that you compared S3 with Succession lol.

[low junco]

Cos what I said was that one scene (in an episode of a season you haven’t seen) had insults on the level of Succession

[lethal silo]

What is S3?

[thin hawk]

Don’t backtrack. Just admit that you overhyped a mediocre show like Industry.

[low junco]

Have you seen the episode I was talking about?

Yes or no babydoll

[native sorrel]

as much as i ended up enjoying this movie, WBD fucking deserves this box office failure

200 Ms + free reign + no test screenings + deliberately anti-audience movie + the fact that they are generally anti-art and love shooting themselves in the foot

[fierce burrow]

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1843403257210659016

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) on X

Todd Phillips was secluded on a ranch during the opening weekend of ‘JOKER 2’

(Source: https://t.co/XIpFAOqgXE)

Twitter · Oct 7, 2024, 9:29 PM

i'm fucking crying my man was in hideout 😭

[worn remnant]

It wasn’t that bad. Chill y’all

[native sorrel]

agreed. pretty overblown

but that's what happens when the previous movie hits a billion in the box office

high expectations

[sinful sparrow]

she was quite literally talking about a scene in a specific episode lol

Reading comprehension and media literacy at an all time low these days

I don't watch TV that much so I had the privilege of binging S1 to S3 which was very enjoyable. If it was a shit show, HBO wouldn't have signed a 3 year deal with the two writers

[native sorrel]

speaking of that, this is the most confusing take ive seen

ppl saying arthur fleck not being THE joker is a backpedal when even the first movie made that clear

folie a deux pretty much just screamed everything louder for the people in the back

[kind totem]

Not as bad as Josh Trank after he made Fantastic Four

[weary path]

bro whatchu waffling on abt

im fr blasting todd for cooking until the house burnt down

[rocky turret]

It's called being a fucking dipshit hence why Phillips has to legit SCREAM at them (and apparently that doesn't work either)

[half violet]

Every day I'm more convinced that Phillips wanted to develop an "original" concept but Warner slapped one of their IPs to it

[orchid birch]

It's just crazy that the studio gave full creative control and even agreed to no test screenings for this movie, when they are the ones putting 200 million dollars. If there had been some check and balances, and maybe a test screening.. things might have been a bit different.

[prisma schooner]

After a test screening the most they could do is slim it down or edit it around

Unlike most cbms it would be hard to do reshoots for this film since i doubt joaquin wants to go that skinny again just for reshoots

[orchid birch]

Also I hear a lot of lady Gaga stuff was cut as well

[shut stratus]

So stupid..

[weary path]

honestly i wonder how well the movie woulda performed if wb just stepped in and made it abt joker doing joker stuff

[fossil talon]

Saw this movie

Honestly was thinking about other things while watching it

And towards the end I was so fed up with the music that when another song started I audibly groaned. Don’t worry, it was only me and my friend who had already seen it in the theater

Bless that man’s soul

[exotic apex]

Something rubs me the wrong way that this is the only main thing people talk about with this movie

I thought the editing was strange and the movie never really wanted to lead to anything but I still found some bits I enjoyed

At least this tried more than stuff that fully know what people want like deadpool 3

[elder junco]

I haven’t seen this yet but I already know it’s a misunderstood masterpiece

[true monolith]

I just saw the film earlier today and was honestly entertained the whole way through and thought it was a fantastic film with a unique and immersive style. The ending however kind of makes Arthur’s whole story lose the gravity and severity it had. It was a very emotional story about the indifference of a society to someone like Arthur with those issues and how he learned to cope with his feelings that eventually turn him into "Joker". Just for him not to be the joker at all and be the influence for the real villain felt so out of nowhere and out of place. Especially casting some random dude who’s only shown in the background a handful of times

Joaquin’s acting was superb and out of this world. I loved his voice in the musical segments and overall appreciate this movie for how different it is from most

The court room musical scene was so good too and had some great shots

[pulsar needle]

To all of you film purists who say creatives should have full creative control, this is the result.

A shit show that everyone despises.

[rustic gazelle]

@zlewis97 i think the ending could have worked better if they had set up the dude properly

[rustic gazelle]

Rather have that than something like Deadpool and Wolverine

[pulsar needle]

Good luck getting work if you can't find funding.

[rustic gazelle]

Siding with the money obsessed studios is mad

Enjoy more films made by comittee i guess

Cause we'll get a shit ton of those in the coming years

[pulsar needle]

What good is art if it makes no impact?

[pulsar needle]

I want artists to be creative, but why do these creatives go so overboard in making their art inaccessible?

Some films make me want to kill myself because of how bad they are.

[rustic gazelle]

[rustic gazelle]

Maybe you need to go to therapy bro

[pulsar needle]

I am in therapy.

[rustic gazelle]

Good

[pulsar needle]

But why are these creatives just so bad?

Coppola, Phillips.