📺The Acolyte

[indigo patrol]

I think it’s a good show

Many do, some don’t

That’s fine

It’s not objectively anything

Don’t try to impose fact on your opinion

It’s silly and makes it smaller

[limpid plank]

I don’t think screenwriting is subjective when it’s this awful

Like when characters change their mind on a whim

That’s just one example but yeah

[indigo patrol]

When

Take me through it, cos I’m not sure you’re right

[limpid plank]

I have a meeting in a few but I will later

[indigo patrol]

The show is built around Osha and Mae changing places, which happens pretty cleanly, two direct lines crossing

There’s not much wavering

That’s the working spine of the story

Mae leans progressively more light in each episode, and vice versa

Qimir, Sol and the others are designed as catalysts to speed them along

It’s a very neatly structured season of telly, towering above the likes of Boba Fett, Ahsoka etc

[stuck widget]

Oh it destroys a lot of the SW shows yeah.

I love the non-linear fashion the story was told in too.

I don’t consider it perfect but it was great, loved watching it and its so fun to have the weekly anticipation. I hope it gets renewed.

From interviews, Headland and co. definitely have some really good stuff cooking for a second season

[indigo patrol]

I’d agree with all of this

Headland is my favourite kind of fan in that she’s clearly well-versed in her Star Wars lore, but has the imagination to push it in new directions

Try new things while building off the old

[stuck widget]

Yee definitely

[indigo patrol]

And also giving us that fabulous bleeding lightsaber moment

[stuck widget]

That was simply sick to see

[limpid plank]

So here's an example

Mae in episode 5:

I will surrender to the Jedi and pay for my crimes
I will now fight the Jedi instead of surrendering
I will now knock my sister out, pretend to be her, and kill Sol
ep 6 : I have multiple chances to kill Sol but will not

[limpid plank]

I hate what she did because she used nepotism to hire her wife who is legitimately one of the worst actresses I’ve ever seen on screen

I’d have no qualms if her wife was talented

And I can almost guarantee you a better actress would’ve been chosen for the role

[devout plank]

Dumbest lore implementation.

Not really when it’s making a sound reasonable response to a threat as a heinous act…

Then going with a groomer, a common dark side trope, someone who groomed his Acolyte who knows how young.

Really weird way of subverting morality.

[tawny zenith]

I dunno, never seen it been performed live action before.

[devout plank]

They added this first in the Vader comics. Specifically the second batch series called Lord of the Sith. It’s ok but I always found it odd that he had to possess a Kyber Cristal and corrupt it. It also doesn’t make sense considering it’s used as a part of a mega weapon.

[void bear]

i think bleeding is a neat concept that makes sense

but

it is something that only a powerful sith can accomplish with a lot of focus and effort

it makes no sense for osha to just randomly accidentally bleed a kyber crystal because she's a little grumpy

[devout plank]

Well I find it weird considering Kyler crystals apparently are sentient

[tawny zenith]

I rather think she was quite a ways more than a little grumpy...

[supple tusk]

I think it was a decent show. It brought me to research and gain interest in Star Wars. The writing was bad but I really enjoyed the fight scenes. So violent and brutal, something you don't see in star wars besides mando and rogue one

People also need to understand Jedi are indeed messed up people. Sol broke my heart

[wild ginkgo]

To each there own, but let’s not act like there aren’t valid criticisms out there and that most the hate is a “bandwagon”. That’s just an empty deflection tbh

[supple tusk]

I agree. The writing was bad but it was still a decent watch.

The fight scenes alone are worth rewatching

[wild ginkgo]

To each their own

It started decent

But by the middle this story had no idea what the fuck it was doing.

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh

With all the Star Wars media out

That doesn’t say much

I can go watch that on YouTube

[supple tusk]

That's what I meant lol

[wild ginkgo]

But ok I’ll give the action

I’ll give it a point

[supple tusk]

Yeah I agree with you

[wild ginkgo]

Acting wasn’t the problem

Def not the problem

The problem is these dirt water characters that flip kotivations on a dime FOR NO REASON

[supple tusk]

I cannot blame the actors

[wild ginkgo]

So many actions in this show are just done for the sake of the plot and not logical decisions rooted in there character

[supple tusk]

Especially my boy sol. He couldn't save them 😂

[wild ginkgo]

HELL ONE OF EM LEARNED ENGLISH

just for this

That’s incredible

[supple tusk]

Exact

He was by far the best actor

[wild ginkgo]

Oh yeah definitely

[supple tusk]

I definitely gotta give probs to Dafne Keen her fights was awesome

Manny too. My boy did good as sith

[wild ginkgo]

I mean, to this day I still don’t understand why they lied in the first place

Just so they can have this dumbass coverup

[supple tusk]

Right

Sol did so much to have a padawan

[wild ginkgo]

FOR NO TEASOJ

Just for drama sake

[supple tusk]

Right. Just get a infant my boy.

Jedi stay taking them just do the same lol

[limpid plank]

You can absolutely blame some of them

Especially the lady who played Venestra

[supple tusk]

I thought she did fine

[wild ginkgo]

Only so much an actor can do

With no materiel

[limpid plank]

I mean

Manny Jacinto elevated the material imo

None of the others did

Sol sounded like Pinocchio in wood form

[devout plank]

Jedi always ask parents before taking them.

Even Qui-Gon does this…

Look at The Old Republic’s latest cinematic

This was understood for a while.

https://youtu.be/QgbMAdtp7aE?si=JnMQMXyvxCulubqi

I see how the Acolyte was inspired by this…

Again poorly executed in the show.

[wild ginkgo]

SHUT UP MANDO

I like “THE POWERRTR OFF MANYYYY”

[devout plank]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-joe-star-wars-the-acolyte-the-power-of-one-the-power-of-many-joe-vargas-gif-8935849601572394312

THE POWER OF MAAAAANYYYY

https://tenor.com/view/handy-manny-music-lover-gif-12583098

handy many

[wild ginkgo]

HANDY MANNYYYY

[devout plank]

https://youtu.be/2bmsNa9GOR0?si=xP8kBHykvjOi1FnO

Oh look a force pull power from canon material Sol should’ve done this.

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh

One part of me wants it

But if Lesly Headland is in charge

Fuck no

Hellllll nooo

[devout plank]

HELL NO

POWER OF MONEH LAUNDERRRRING

[wild ginkgo]

BRING THE WOMAN FROM Jurassic world

[devout plank]

this opinion I’m opposed

Never liked her

Both actor and director, she’s ok.

[wild ginkgo]

Bryce Dallas Howard

[devout plank]

Just like her dad Ron Howard

[wild ginkgo]

Oh

[devout plank]

They’re so ok

[wild ginkgo]

Well I liked her director

In the boba fett episode she did

[devout plank]

I can make a better one

[wild ginkgo]

Who would you pick

You can’t so John fav

Or Dave

Has to be someone new

[devout plank]

Talking about depicting billions of lives in what essentially is a galactic feudal war akin to Samurai warlords

Like the Sengoku Jidai

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah but

Who’d you pick to direct?

[devout plank]

Me… give me money

It’ll be a 3 billion dollar blockbuster

[wild ginkgo]

Mando……

Idk about all dat

I MEAN

Ok what would you do?

[devout plank]

Basically a dawn of the a Jedi Order.

[wild ginkgo]

Like the start start,

[devout plank]

Hold up

[devout plank]

Now I want to know the show ratings

[stuck widget]

https://x.com/emmab_videos/status/1816210709669372159?s=46&t=HNMiPFka7Y732ZUdCpKpNA

i love this lol

Emma (@EmmaB_Videos) on X

what the inside of my brain looks like, btw #TheAcolyte

Twitter · Jul 24, 2024, 8:35 PM

[limpid plank]

https://youtu.be/PqwEE6G6zaU?feature=shared

This was incredible

[void bear]

oh i love pitch meetings

[proper drift]

https://youtu.be/CO4xVT-OksI?si=OaO116vemyYiOGwJ

[tawny zenith]

There's worse than this show, really.

Much, much worse.

[void bear]

yeah calling the acolyte the "most hated show" is a far stretch

like its not great

but i would give it maybe a 6/10

it has a lot of good ideas that almost make up for the bad writing

but in no universe is it anywhere close to being the worst show on tv

[tawny zenith]

fair enough.

[proper drift]

Absolutely got some nice ideas, but it’s pretty tough to salvage this show image

[steady jay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKXNu-YrTVw

[tawny zenith]

See? Not that much better or worse.

Star Wars always had bad dialogue.

[wild ginkgo]

Don’t agree

At all

Again

“I can bring you in warm, or I can bring you in cold”

Goes hard as shit

That isn’t from Andor

https://youtu.be/-p5HKp1r38I?si=Im0bpuDHimQEsbiC

This scene

Like tbh I feel like the argument comes from the actual people who don’t like Star Wars

And again, if you truly believe, why not IDk TRY TO BETTER

If people truly belief that the quality is the same as it always has been, then I don’t wanna hear any more arguments about Disneys Star Wars being better

[tawny zenith]

It has bits and pieces here and there. Sure. But mostly? Bad

One has to look at the entirety of attack of the clones, ep 2.

Or every scene where Anakin compliments or even talks to Padme. Is cringe.

[indigo patrol]

Great show

Amandla Stenberg and the gang killed it

Some of the cleanest visual storytelling in Star Wars probs since Last Jedi

(I don’t count Andor cos that’s barely even Star Wars, it’s something better)

[wild ginkgo]

Don’t agree

Sorry

[wild ginkgo]

The last Jedi?

Oh boy

Oh boy

So what’d you like about this show. I’m curious

I’m not gonna make fun, I’m genuinely asking

[wild ginkgo]

It’s light years better then this bruh

Light years

[limpid plank]

The Last Jedi is easily the most visually striking SW movie from a lighting and cinematography perspective

[wild ginkgo]

OH WAIT

Visually

Yeah I’ll give it that

[limpid plank]

Yeah I mean the lightsaber battles are magical

[wild ginkgo]

I always leap before I read man

Gotta stop that

[limpid plank]

You can pretty much frame any shot from that movie

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah. It’s a shame that

[limpid plank]

Idk who was the DP guessing Ruby does

Writing-wise, I'd also argue it's the best of the new trilogy despite that stupid Canto Bight subplot

[wild ginkgo]

…..well feh

I’m gonna say this nicely

I think it’s the worst in the trilogy

I mean arguably it’s the whole start of everything

Of geeks and gamers

Or at least on of the starting points

[devout plank]

Sacrificing logic to make it happen :(

I still think Episode II is one of the prettiest of the saga

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-attack-of-the-clones-geonosis-droid-battle-gif-15588679

[tawny zenith]

What's wrong with geeks?

[devout plank]

Fav battle

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-clone-wars-begun-the-clone-war-has-gif-21159557

Meant to be heard loudly

[wild ginkgo]

No I mean the channel name

[tawny zenith]

Oh, sry.

[proper drift]

Oof is this that “geeks & gamers”

[devout plank]

No TFA was. I can actually direct you as to why. But for the time being: TFA was a meta narrative on the “majority” of the fandom at the time. By doing this retread of the OT they sacrificed world building in service of nostalgia which in principle does work but when you look at the saga as a whole it’s incoherent, one can argue more incoherent than TLJ which is a meta deconstruction of legends and reality but as a result it’s more of an insult to the saga than it was progressing it. This specifically being, the little kid with broomstick scene as an insult to how the force works, mainly that scene is meant to convey everyone has it, which is also fine in principle but it misses the context of the sagas intentions on the force.

[tawny zenith]

I thought it was meant to convey that some people were still force sensitive. You dont see everybody in the movie or that scene using the force,do you? Just means neither Luke nor Rey will be the last of the Jedi.

[devout plank]

Partially. It’s meant to be taken as the force will always be gifted upon anyone who is in this universe making the major conflict of good v evil a never ending tug of war.

It’s another meta piece on the Star Wars saga.

[tawny zenith]

I would change "anyone" with "someone".

But yah, eternal conflict, till Sith and Jedi find common ground.

[devout plank]

One significant element of the Star Wars universe that has been changed by this finale is the deviation from the "chosen one" narrative that has long-characterized the Skywalker clan. By presenting audiences with the young, Force-sensitive boy at the end of the film, it returns us to the idea of Luke staring out at a twin sunset on Tatooine and establishes the notion that anyone in the Star Wars universe has the potential to become the hero of a story. It's not just about blood; everyone and everything are connected through The Force

-Rian Johnson discussing the finale with the kid broom.

He says anyone

[devout plank]

The common ground would be the erasure of evil and balance through the light.

[tawny zenith]

One side being dominant isn't balance.

[devout plank]

It’s what the Whills want. It’s part of the prophecy that anchors this Skywalker saga.

[tawny zenith]

So I guess the Sith that don't do evil have to die.

[proper drift]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRoVxqFr/

[wild ginkgo]

Wow guys it’s almost like…..a 20 year old franchise should improve and do better! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[tawny zenith]

What do you mean? It doesent look like low budget 70's no more.

[wild ginkgo]

I'm talking about the arugment the guy made in the video saying "If Star Wars came out today, ya'll would hate on it". Not putting into context that Star Wars is 30 years old and has been a long running franchise that has had plenty of chances (and in many cases has) to improve. It's a skin thin arugment and I'm tired of hearing it.

[tawny zenith]

I dont think i would hate Star wars if it came out today.

[void bear]

star wars is 50 years old

30 years old would be the 90s

[tawny zenith]

I might wonder why Vader and Kenobi are fighting like stiff old men tho.

I'd be like "where's the rage?"

Unless they were fighting like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k

[wild ginkgo]

According to that guy you would.

[wild ginkgo]

My bad 50 years

So even more so, it should be open to imporvement in it's writting

[tawny zenith]

Well, since when do i listen to other people when it comes to my enjoyment? 😛

[wild ginkgo]

True, tell him that not me lol

[tawny zenith]

Altho it does seem that if you make something where a black person and a woman are even remotely important, you get called woke nowadays, its atrocious.

[limpid plank]

https://deadline.com/2024/08/the-acolyte-canceled-no-season-2-star-wars-disney-plus-1236044233/

https://tenor.com/view/śmiech-smiech-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-parskać-gif-21092400

[indigo patrol]

Cannot believe the incels won

[steady jay]

but also, it was crap

the characters were dull and lifeless, the dialogue was awful, the pacing was poor and emotional arcs extremely weak

[indigo patrol]

Ok

[indigo patrol]

I liked Osha and Sol, but if nothing else Qimir is the best Star Wars baddie since Kylo. The pacing was hurt by the editing, but no more than all the other choppy Star Wars shows

And the arcs were extremely clean lol

One goes good to bad, the other goes bad to good

The good mentor is worse than we thought, the bad mentor is better than we thought

It couldn’t be more clean

[steady jay]

hey, if you enjoyed it, then great. But I watched it because I was bored and was still bored while watching it

[indigo patrol]

You can trust Star Wars not to follow a straight line I guess

[indigo patrol]

Sucks to be you 😦

[tawny zenith]

Its the Acolyte, not friggin Garbage Pail Kids. Ergo, it has some entertainment value.

[indigo patrol]

Anyway, once a decade it seems Star Wars tries something new and the Wookiepedia nerds moan it away

The Last Jedi, Andor and The Acolyte at least exist, between seasons of that Mandalorian rubbish

[tawny zenith]

I Misread. Its been canned.

[indigo patrol]

Something to keep the lights on

[tawny zenith]

bummer.

[steady jay]

I stopped watched Mando ages ago

again, quite boring but for different reasons

[limpid plank]

I just find it hilarious that they canceled it

And hopefully won’t work with Leslye ever again

[indigo patrol]

I’m happy for you

I agree that people shouldn’t have jobs because they changed the Wookie’s birthday

[royal glen]

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1825676193292534062

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) on X

‘THE ACOLYTE’ has been cancelled by Disney+ after 1 season.

Twitter · Aug 19, 2024, 11:28 PM

haven't seen the show yet but this happened

[modest night]

Lucky you, it's garbage. It's not 1 out 10 pure garbage like some reviews implied but it's like a 3 or 4 out of 10 at best. So many problems with it. Cost the most of any series so far, but performed worse than any other Star Wars series so far. Divided the fan base even further, broke a ton of lore, etc. Hopefully this show getting shit canned is the start of just retconning it out of the canon. Good riddance to it.

[calm night]

Oh come on, I like a lot of stuff but even for me The Acolyte was a total mess. The characters weren't written well, motivations all over the place. The action scenes were great but that's the only positive thing about the show imo.

[wild ginkgo]

https://deadline.com/2024/08/the-acolyte-canceled-no-season-2-star-wars-disney-plus-1236044233/

THANK CHRIST

DEAD

[wild ginkgo]

It lost cause it was ass

Plane and simple

GOOD NIGHT

[wild ginkgo]

Stop straw manning

You know that’s not the only reason people have problems with the show

FUCK THIS SHHGOWWWW

WOOOOO

[jolly leaf]

I love how if a movie has a poorly written script with a female lead, it’s apparently incels who are calling it bad lmao

[devout plank]

I ain’t no incel.

This show was definitely not it.

Not even as a good show when taking out the franchise component.

[jolly leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/tommy_stella/status/1825696045457613095?s=46

[indigo patrol]

It’s a TV show dearie

[indigo patrol]

Agreed it had issues, but are we gonna pretend that particularly club of Star Wars Fans weren’t up in arms about the cast lol

It still towers over Mandalorian S3

[indigo patrol]

You’re not btw I agree

[jolly leaf]

But we shouldn’t pretend like they are the reason the show is cancelled…

[steady jay]

It underperformed according to what Disney wanted.

[indigo patrol]

No, the reason the show was cancelled is cos Disney has diluted the Star Wars brand to the extent that the only way they can regain interest now is with the same weaponised nostalgia they’re using with Marvel.

“Remember the Clone Wars?”

Mando and Ahsoka being the only ones to get additional seasons is very telling imo

[steady jay]

and the fact that the show was not good did not help its case.

[indigo patrol]

(I don’t count Andor cos that’s barely Star Wars, that’s a much better thing)

[indigo patrol]

But they literally can’t get a movie made. Fanbait is the only move they know works

The most viral a Star Wars project has gotten in the 2020s was when Hayden showed up as a Force Ghost in Ahsoka for 3 minutes

[jolly leaf]

I agree that nostalgia bait is a huge problem these days but they can’t expect to give something original when it’s a bad project

[analog yacht]

Guys, I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices cried out in pure joy. Acolyte is cancelled.

[jolly leaf]

Just to put my stance out there, I am not a fan most of the Star Wars series, Andor is the only one I enjoyed because Rogue one is the only Star Wars project from the 2010s that I enjoyed

I just don’t see the appeal in the acolyte at all. The premise was great but execution was abysmal

[steady jay]

like, if you look at the idea in the abstract (Jedi cover-up, a set of twins created by a force event, a group of witches using the Force in dark ways, a Sith looking for an Acolyte) it all sounds pretty good. But the excicution of it all was awful.

[indigo patrol]

For me I find it more weird how many people are celebrating it getting cancelled?

Feels really odd to me like, whether you enjoyed the show or not, why is putting a bunch of people out of work for trying something new good lol

[steady jay]

you are aware that's not really how the industry works? It's not like they were all in a factory that got closed down. They were paid to work on the show as a contract. that contract ended and they all went to work elsewhere.

its a gig economy

its not some network show with 22 eps that generally has the same cast and crew every season.

the people in production have probably been on a half dozen other projects since this finished filming. And while they'll won't get to work on the show again, there was never any guarantee that they would.

So while I understand your sentiment, it doesn't really apply here....

[jolly leaf]

Exactly my thoughts

Cool fight sequences but that should be expected. It’s actually embarrassing that it took this long for a good choreographed fight scene. The rest of the show is so forgettable

I knew this show was going to crash and burn when we got a boring ass flashback episode by the third episode

[wild ginkgo]

Ok sure, but let’s not pretend the show getting cancelled is ONLY the result of quote “incels” is kinda shallow

[indigo patrol]

Absolutely

But the incels are being weirdly excited about it

[indigo patrol]

Tell me why it's a good thing the show was cancelled

[wild ginkgo]

Ok but, let’s not frame this as the “incels won” it’s shallow tbh

[indigo patrol]

Ok

[jolly leaf]

rage baiter

[indigo patrol]

A lot of people didn't like the show, including the incels who are now celebrating as if they won lol

I think it's extremely weird how happy people were to see a show get cancelled for trying to do something other than Clone Wars bait

Like it or not, it's more of a risk than "Ahsoka" lol

And risks should be encouraged

[jolly leaf]

I am happy they cancelled something not worth the standard of quality I and many others expect

[steady jay]

and it was a commercial failure. Disney is a business afterall

[indigo patrol]

What about Ahsoka?

Which is getting a S2 despite being maybe the most artificially generated show of our lifetimes

[jolly leaf]

I mentioned a couple messages up that I don't like most series

[steady jay]

also, I never said it was GOOD thing. I'm just not surprised given the reception and poor quality of the writing

[indigo patrol]

I know, and dw I'm not talking about you

[indigo patrol]

It's this weird stuff

Like, whether you like the show or not it wasn't detrimental to you

And rooting for its downfall is bizarrely mean-spirited

Star Wars tried something new, it was divisive, now they won't take a risk again

Huzzah?

[jolly leaf]

You know what irritated me as well….the #RenewTheAcolyte thing on X

people actively asking for a second season to a shit show

[indigo patrol]

Why lol

Literally what does it matter to you

People liked the show and wanted more of it, why is that bad?

Why is that ever bad?

The Acolyte doesn't even scrape the bottom three Star Wars shows, so there's gotta be more to it than quality assurance

[jolly leaf]

People complain that we aren’t getting good quality Star Wars series and then ask for a second season to a Star Wars show that is so obviously bad?

[indigo patrol]

People liked it

[jolly leaf]

Oh it definitely does

[indigo patrol]

Idk why that's hard for you to wrap your head around lol

"I personally didn't like the show, so anyone who did deserves to lose it"

It's so odd

[indigo patrol]

It's not worse than Ahsoka, Boba Fett or Kenobi

And even if you felt it was... so what?

You don't have to watch it lmao

[jolly leaf]

So you’re saying if Ahoska got cancelled (seeing that you think it’s bad), you wouldn’t be happy?

People can like the show, but they mustn’t get complacent when it gets cancelled because it’s objectively bad. It had the second lowest premiere viewings for a Star Wars show

[indigo patrol]

I wouldn't be happy, no

I'd say "yeah, fair enough, I didn't like it or what it did for the franchise"

"Sucks for those who were fans"

Why would I pop champagne over fans losing something they like?

[jolly leaf]

I’m happy Disney used their brains and cancelled a bad show 👍

No one is popping champagne…

[indigo patrol]

Don't say "objectively bad" it makes you sound like a little kid

[wild ginkgo]

Happens all the time bruh

[indigo patrol]

Unless you are a little kid, in which case have at it lol

[indigo patrol]

Doesn't mean it isn't weird girl

[wild ginkgo]

Not a girl

[jolly leaf]

But you’re allowed to generalize every person who hated the show as incels?

[indigo patrol]

Don't think I did

[wild ginkgo]

Remember guys, the show can’t be not good. It has to be tied to culture war shit

[indigo patrol]

I clarified what I meant when I was misunderstood lol

[indigo patrol]

I thought the show had major flaws tbh

But no, it wasn't "objectively bad"

[wild ginkgo]

To you

[indigo patrol]

And I just think all the celebrating is weird

[wild ginkgo]

But to a lot of people

[indigo patrol]

Dude read that back

Lmao

"It wasn't objectively bad to you, but it was to me"

You might even say

Idk

Subjectively?

[wild ginkgo]

Sure

[indigo patrol]

That's the point I'm making

I respect that you didn't like it, that's fine

But the word "objectively" is just silly in this context

Kid shit

[wild ginkgo]

When did I use the word objectively?

[indigo patrol]

Framer I'll be honest I wasn't quoting you

[wild ginkgo]

Oh wait he did nvm

[indigo patrol]

Ye

[wild ginkgo]

Nvm

My b

[indigo patrol]

It's cool

[wild ginkgo]

Question

[indigo patrol]

Sorry for being unclear

[indigo patrol]

yo

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah that is kinda goofy

Ngl

Who’s in your pfp

Is that Helena?

[indigo patrol]

Ruby Sunday, from Doctor Who

[wild ginkgo]

Ohhh

ILL SAY THIS

The large amount of people

[indigo patrol]

If you're coming for Doctor Who Imma about to throw fists

[wild ginkgo]

Sending hate mail and death threats

Fucking disgust me

[indigo patrol]

Completely agree

[wild ginkgo]

And I know there up in arms celebrating, I’m not with them, fuck them in all there disgusting shill behavior

[indigo patrol]

I think it's probably why I have such a sour taste around the online attitude to the show

[wild ginkgo]

And you know

[indigo patrol]

Obvs anyone here who doesn't like it and isn't an incel, I don't think you are xo

[wild ginkgo]

I THUBK

that’s fair

[limpid plank]

BUUUUT MANDALORIAN AND GROGU 🤣

Best title I’ve seen in ages

[modest night]

I really don't like how the go to dirty debate tactic for anyone defending this show (or any other modern TV show) is to start throwing random labels (bigot/racist/incel/etc) at anyone criticizing any modern show. Any time you try to explain your reasoning in details to as to why you don't like the show, you get stupid comments like "why don't you just say THE REAL reason you don't like the show". Its gotten to the point where honestly those words are meaningless, and I ignore anyone who starts throwing them around. Unless someones complaint is something straight up bigoted like "I hate X group of people, I don't want them in any of my media" criticism of art is always valid. I think part of the problem is on the opposite side of the debate words like "woke" have entered the lexicon, words that if you ask 100 different people what it means you'll get 100 different answers, which has made them meaningless and impossible to define. That's why when I see people using that word, I try to get them to better explain what exactly they are taking issue with and their argument is usually better than just "I hate X group of people". My main problem with this show is that it just shits all over the lore, and isn't even apologetic about it. It even goes as far as to try to change Lucas-tier canon, which as far as I am concerned is scripture and defines the core of Star Wars as a universe. The sheer audacity of someone like Leslie Headland to think she is qualified to go messing with lore at the level this does (changing how the force works at the lowest level, making the Jedi look corrupt and useless, fucking with various timeline events in the SW universe) is astounding. Its like if an novice painter decides he can just paint over the Mona Lisa and somehow improve it. Its sheer Hubris

[indigo patrol]

Oh

[limpid plank]

That’s a pretty silly critique 😅

Average audiences don’t care about lore

[void bear]

yeah my biggest issue with the show was just how atrocious the writing is

[modest night]

They apparently don't care about this show either, if viewership numbers are anything to go by. Part of what makes a sprawling IP like Star Wars so interesting is all the different projects linking in smoothly to create a cohesive universe that makes sense. The best way I've heard it explained is that for Star Wars fans Star Wars is more than just a media franchise, its a hobby. When you create random projects that just do whatever they want with no concern for what has come before, you quickly alienate that core fan base. Those are the people that reliably watch your shows, buy the $50 special edition blu rays, buy all the merchandise, etc. They are the people that spend hours arguing about some random niche event in the universe. They are literally what makes an IP valuable. I'd be willing to bet they are the majority of the viewers that did watch the show, because even after hearing the show was universally panned most of these fans will still give it a chance. This is part of a larger problem where Hollywood desperately wants Sci-Fi to suddenly have mass appeal, when its always been niche even at its "peak" in the late 1990s/2000s. So they keep running franchises into the ground by chasing the kind of mass appeal something like The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones had, the kind of shows that are nation wide cultural events everyone is watching and talking about. The end result is what you see here, a show fans hate and casual viewers flipping through Disney+ looking for something to watch don't care about it either.

[indigo patrol]

In the case of Star Wars though, the core fanbase is pretty famously the worst of them all

There are a billion jokes about how toxic and tantrum-prone the Star Wars ‘core fandom’ are over the tiniest things like how someone held a lightsaber one time

That’s not a sustainable target audience

I’ve never seen a fandom en masse get as angry about a very minor EU character’s birthday changing

[indigo patrol]

For example, what ‘scripted’ was actually contradicted?

Cos the Jedi being corrupt is the main point of literally 50% of the Lucas films

It’s the thesis of the prequels

[modest night]

I mean, I would word it differently but yeah, that happens alot. Because people are passionate about the franchise, also some people enjoy arguing about the smallest, most irrelevant detail for hours at a time. I don't think that necessarily toxic, its just that when these people and casual viewers cross paths it becomes a problem. The Internet is becoming a smaller place, the super fans that used to exist basically solely on web forums and niche subreddits are now just spread out everywhere.

[indigo patrol]

Being passionate doesn’t equate to being online bullies throwing toys out of prams

Loving a thing isn’t an excuse to be hateful

It’s not always toxic but it frequently is

You can’t deny the targeted harassment that does come upon minority talents pretty much every single time lol

To date it’s an unbroken pattern

[devout plank]

Once more

THE POWER OF ONE

THE POWER OF TWO

THE POWER OF MANNY

https://tenor.com/view/grim-fandango-manny-calavera-gif-25471321

Glad this wasn’t Velma 2 electric boogaloo retread with all the hate watching posted on YouTube.

[modest night]

and its an extremely small group of people that happens to be extremely good at making lots of noise driving that pattern. But a ton of people get lumped in with them wrongly.

[wild ginkgo]

Well, I don’t think it’s small

Like I agree, that slot of people use the “incel” defense to a point where it almost feels like you can’t talk about the show, but lets be honest it’s not without reason

Like if you look at the actors instagram there are allot of comments attacking there race or person, many going as far as to send death threats

But the framing of the “don’t let incels win, give us season 2” is equally goofy

[indigo patrol]

There was maybe nothing funnier than the Reddit meltdown after one of the actors got a character’s name wrong in a junket

It’s very telling who triggers these meltdowns

McGregor makes jokes about not knowing his stuff, but he’s forgiven

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh, for the amount of budget they were asking for, for something that wasn’t that good to begin with, I don’t blame Disney

Like at all

Like culture war shit ain’t enough to justify a season 2

Especially with 180 million dollars on the line

[indigo patrol]

Cut the budget for sure

But killing everything that’s a little bit divisive is a terrible artistic practice

Clone Wars S1 wasn’t popular

[wild ginkgo]

They were asking for more lol

[indigo patrol]

It was generally quite panned

[indigo patrol]

Who?

[wild ginkgo]

Did it cost 180

Acolyte creators

[modest night]

I seem to remember ALOT of criticism around the Obi Wan mini series, the show literally built around Ewan McGregor.

[wild ginkgo]

They asked for a similar budget and Disney said no

[indigo patrol]

Did they

[wild ginkgo]

Yes

Disney said no

[indigo patrol]

I haven’t read that

Have you a source?

[wild ginkgo]

That’s what I read

One sec

[indigo patrol]

Where tho

Ty

[modest night]

Clone Wars S1 also aired on Television, the economics of which are a bit different from streaming

[indigo patrol]

Ye but not of him lol

Star Wars fandom has consistently been good to white male actors

And shitty to basically everyone else

The bullying of Kelly Marie Tran was deranged

And I know it’s not everyone, but it’s not no one either

Basically I don’t think it’s a fandom that should be appeased artistically

There are so many bad eggs

[wild ginkgo]

Welll

Abalone child actor

Anakins

[indigo patrol]

Oh true I guess some of them also got bullied into oblivion

[wild ginkgo]

People use to hate on Hayden Christian

[indigo patrol]

I’ll add him to the list lol

[indigo patrol]

They’ll deny it now

[wild ginkgo]

Daisy Ridley

But yeah

For the most part

Not white gets the harder beating

And at least they didn’t come after race and shit

[devout plank]

Anakin blew up the Death Star bit? That happened twice

Which is why people melted down

[indigo patrol]

You know how many junkets they do in a day lol

If a guy has the wrong name in his head

That’s not persecution-worthy

[wild ginkgo]

But let’s be honest bro

[devout plank]

We all watched 1977 Star Wars. I thought he’d remember that more than anything from the prequels.

[wild ginkgo]

This show was corny as hell

“The power of one, the power of two”

Jesus Christ

[indigo patrol]

He made a mistake?

Like

[void bear]

the "star wars fans" (incels etc) are a VAST minority, but are extremely loud and very good at making themselves feel like they have more presence than they do

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh Mando

I don’t care much about that

[modest night]

Yeah, except all the female and POC actors from the OG trilogy, and the pre-quels. One of the most popular fan theories (that Mace Windu survived his fall) was literally crafted to open the door for Mace Windus character to return post-Order 66 because people like the character so much. The fan base has done some shitty things, mostly by a handful of dedicated trolls within it (like the way Jar Jars actor was treated) but to say they are consistently bigoted is just false.

[wild ginkgo]

Harrison ford doesn’t like playing Han

[indigo patrol]

Nobody here could be consistently flawless running a marathon of junkets

You have to answer the same questions dozens of times

Keeping up a front of energy

[wild ginkgo]

Natalie Portman doesn’t like playing padme

[void bear]

90% of people who watch star wars do not give a shit about most of the things "star wars fans" complain about, but because they dont care theyre not going to reddit and twitter to complain nonstop

[indigo patrol]

It’s an awful thing

[void bear]

so all you ever see online is the angry incels

even though they are by no means representative of the majority opinion

[indigo patrol]

Are we really saying Star Wars fans didn’t bully prequel actors?

You sure?

[devout plank]

They got bullied by the press more than the fans. Ahmed Best (Jar Jar) actually did complain about this and it was the source of negativity. Jake Lloyd thankfully was not bullied, it just happens that he developed schizophrenia and his parents said that he still loves Star Wars and still buys the toys.

[indigo patrol]

You wanna stand by that lol

[wild ginkgo]

Alright man

Let’s not deny it

Like we call pull up screen shots of|| people saying they want to lynch the actress from the acolyte ||

Or making racist remarks about roses actress

The only reason why OG Star Wars actors don’t get that is because the internet backed discourse we see now is different then it was in 1970

By the time this shit came around they were to iconic to slander

[devout plank]

The fans were loud but the press called Jar Jar’s performance as racist and some even point to minstrel shows and saying how this is still about misrepresentation of black people.

Blaming Lucas when the accent and manners where credited to Ahmed

[wild ginkgo]

That actor almost committed ||suicide||

[devout plank]

Yea, he still blames the press before the internet trolls

[wild ginkgo]

Mando, you do see how getting hundreds of racial charged comments can do that kind of thing to someone right?

Again folks, I can open insta rn and ss the comments and show y’all

[devout plank]

Yea but they are quick with the “race hate” comments that it negates any criticism.

[wild ginkgo]

Now, do I think this show deserves a season 2 that being said?

[devout plank]

They’ve been doing this since TLJ

[wild ginkgo]

Fuck no

HELL no

For 180 mil?

[devout plank]

Like every project now

Has one actor getting hate comments

[wild ginkgo]

And that’s not cool, that’s wrong

[devout plank]

We didn’t have this with Windu

[modest night]

I literally just said they did do some pretty shitty things, all I'm saying is that there is no evidence bigotry was the underlying framework. As someone else just mentioned, white and male actors and their characters were not immune from criticism (Sometimes crossing the line into harassment), and more diverse actors and their characters were not immune from near universal praise.

[devout plank]

Right but it negates an actual discussion

[wild ginkgo]

And that’s another reason why we should speak against it

[devout plank]

It’s like Disney is using these people as cover for actual criticism.

[wild ginkgo]

They muddle the discourse

[devout plank]

It was the same thing they’ve done with Balck Panther

[wild ginkgo]

With racism and gross shit

[devout plank]

“First black superhero”

One guy didn’t like it as much and got so much hate

Disney then does a 180 and shrinks Finn from the Force Awakens poster

It’s all about the money

[modest night]

There are millions of star wars fans. Inside of a group that big there will be a handful of truly deranged people saying shit like that, or driving the kind of harassment Ahmed Best suffered for his performance as Jar Jar. Beyond these there will be a still tiny but more noticeable and louder group of people who gather around these ringleaders and amplify their shitty behavior. They still do not represent the entire fan base, or even a large subset of it.

[wild ginkgo]

I think

A lot of people

Are getting caught up in redirect that they don’t realize is being lead by a bunch of weirdos

Like the whole “lesbian space witches” shit isn’t new

To Star Wars or media

[modest night]

Anyways to try to steer us onto a more productive topic: They probably can't reduce the budget much. Sci-Fi has always been obscenely expensive to make. Its part of why it died off so quick when the reality TV show trend took off. Its expensive to write, expensive to make, and its a pretty niche market. Sci-Fi could sort of exist as its own thing back when TV was a thing (because TV was a much more profitable service model for content makers). The Acolyte went an hired A list talent, and went super heavy on CGI which is still expensive as fuck. Then you have the fact with current SAG and WGA contracts (each of those unions damn near has too much power, and I am a very pro union kind of guy) each season of a show gets more expensive to make with mandated salary increases, increased residuals, etc. You also have to consider actors demand bigger payments up front these days because residuals from home media sales and TV re-runs more or less dried up completely. That golden era from 2017-2023 where studios would approve any project presented to them and at least give it a shot is over, productions are just too expensive. I tried to explain this to people during the big SAG and WGA double strike, but nobody wanted to believe me when I said the changes to how actor pay and residuals work would lead to studios being quicker to cancel shows and less likely to approve them in the first place. Then the econony melted down, and the infinite free money spigot from the government was turned off as interest rates skyrocketed which in turn led to venture capital getting a lot more stingy. This meant that companies that existed year after year without making a profit (this includes most streamers, very few of them are profitable. IIRC only Netflix and Disney+ and Disney+ only got there recently) suddenly are scrambling for profitability as they can't just float on VC funds anymore.

[wild ginkgo]

So, do you think this will lead to like

Disney playing stuff safer?

Or writers upping there game

[indigo patrol]

Yes

[indigo patrol]

No

[wild ginkgo]

Fuck

[indigo patrol]

The Acolyte wasn’t a critical failure, contrary to online opinion

It just didn’t find an audience relative to its budget

[wild ginkgo]

True

[indigo patrol]

So it’ll be a case of making things safer

More Mandalorian

[wild ginkgo]

At least not with rotten tomatoes

[indigo patrol]

Those sort

[indigo patrol]

I think I’d describe the overall reception as divisive, which I’m a fan of

[wild ginkgo]

Are you serious?

Man

[indigo patrol]

Probably?

Mandalorian, Ahsoka, that kind of stuff

[wild ginkgo]

We’re cooked

[indigo patrol]

Bland vista TV

[wild ginkgo]

I like Ashoka

Woah woah wooaaahh

[indigo patrol]

Each to their own

[wild ginkgo]

Now the idea that the acolyte is as some sort of ground breaking show, I think that’s equally untrue

It’s an evil twin plot

[indigo patrol]

Not groundbreaking, but different

[wild ginkgo]

With an obvious villain

Not even that different tbh

Two twin separated at a young age

They think the other is dead

[indigo patrol]

It’s not based on any existing characters, it’s set in an era that hasn’t been depicted before and it portrayed the Jedi as borderline villains

It took swings, relatively speaking

I’m not talking about plot

I’m talking about overall scope

[wild ginkgo]

Ihhhh

Ohhh

I see

[indigo patrol]

It’s not just “hey remember Yoda?”

“Hey remember Anakin? Ooh we love Anakin!”

Y’know?

[wild ginkgo]

I mean? The Jedi being boarder line evil isn’t new

And the witches aren’t tbh

[indigo patrol]

No but it’s been forgotten in the Disney Era

The Jedi as a concept has gotten very flat

[wild ginkgo]

Ig

[indigo patrol]

This at least tried to bring some spark back to it

[wild ginkgo]

Can’t say I strongly agree with that

[indigo patrol]

That’s ok

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah

[modest night]

Critics don't consume your content though. Critics were way more relevant before smartphones and social media, now a days everyone bypasses critics and gets reviews straight from actual people watching the content. Id go as far as to say what critics think of something is completely irrelevant now a days.

[indigo patrol]

Which I think is quite sad

Cos fandoms don’t really know what critics are for anymore lol

[wild ginkgo]

That’s what she’s saying

[indigo patrol]

It’s never been the role of a critic to tell you what to think

A good critic is making observations, some more positive, others more critical, that help you better engage with what a show is doing

They’ll have studied up on craft and read up on the production to give you some informed insight

That used to be the point anyway

It’s gotten very tribal now

[wild ginkgo]

I’m sorry Ruby

I’ve been so mean to you

I get so, caught up

[indigo patrol]

Ur g I’ve enjoyed the chat

Sorry if I’ve been rude

[wild ginkgo]

In my feelings, and come off as rude

Nah it’s been me

Can you forgive me?

[modest night]

I wanted to touch on this too, from my understanding Hollywood writing has a big nepotism problem right now. You basically have to either be related to someone or know someone to get in the door. Used to, writers would start out writing commercials and move onto something like a cable sitcom or another low level writing position, then they would move up into the higher tiers of television and then if they did well into film making. Now a days TV writing has almost as much prestige attached to it as film writing, so it's not nearly as easy for a new comer to get their foot in the door.

[wild ginkgo]

Ima be honest

The acolytes dialogue is no better

[indigo patrol]

It is a bit better

[wild ginkgo]

“Jedi are good” “Jedi are bad”

[indigo patrol]

“I’m Cal Kestis”

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah pretty much lol

At least in Mando we get shit like

“I can bring you in warm, or I can bring you in cold”

[indigo patrol]

Is that better

[wild ginkgo]

Hell yeah it is

It goes hard as shit

It’s bad ass

It’s an iconic line that’s a staple of the character

[devout plank]

They weren’t evil. They had hubris that made them blind to their ignorance.

I hate how this show saw it that these Jedi are essentially space cops with alt right evangelist like ties.

[wild ginkgo]

Ima be honest

Did this show even really show that?

[devout plank]

Read second comment

[wild ginkgo]

I mean

I guess

Even that they didn’t really go into that far

[devout plank]

Right but the last good line in the show about checking powers made that point loud and clear

They treat the religious order like how religion in the real world works when the Jedi are more like Samurai/jesuits who go out there way to keep the peace as ambassadors.

Which also really annoys me with the magic aspect of Star Wars. The force is the magic but there is other magic? If the balance is between light and dark why then are we seeing misconstrued perceptions of it if it’s defined for 25,000 years?

It makes sense that normal non force sensitives believe in gods. Even Jar Jar’s line brings up this idea, “demanded by the god it is”. Meaning that the gods might be misunderstood to be the whills. It opens ideas that are more tolerable because it isn’t acting like the force is just a vague concept.

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh I like the idea of it being more vague

[devout plank]

Faith will be like that because it’s an unseen aspect of religion. The force is seen and experienced, it’s defined as characteristics of light and dark.

[wild ginkgo]

Like we don’t know what exactly is out there, but we know something out there

The name implies ambiguity in my opinion

[devout plank]

Bruh. Did you see the Whills episode with Yoda and Darth Bane?

[wild ginkgo]

Yeah ik

But if I had to choose

I like ambiguity better

[devout plank]

Lucas had a defined look on the force.

Even before Star Wars was a thing

https://youtu.be/7-tMhRKS9Jo?si=WwWeEXvH9a4ES02T

3:33

This is the definition that Lucas would use as a template of his force.

Keep in mind the whills was a thing since the early drafts of the first film.

[wild ginkgo]

Anyway, RIP won't be missed

[bleak stag]

https://youtu.be/LxtqjbZ3iRo?si=deVeFjkF98MWgYG0

[proper drift]

https://youtu.be/A-2ALCcvfjY?si=GWTat37rYuwMigES

Bye bye the power of manny

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP81CHPFq/

[tawny zenith]

Pff, there will always be strength in numbers.

[latent sierra]

https://fxtwitter.com/cosmic_marvel/status/1826371687664795854

[limpid plank]

Lmao

That’s hilarious

[indigo patrol]

Unless you have common sense lol

It’s hilarious until the precedent this sets gets turned on a show you actually like

Disney+ are now in the business of wiping full shows rather than paying the upkeeping costs

They’ve done it several times, most prominently with Willow

But the slippery slope is that we end up with a ton of media that is no longer legally available

That’s pretty clearly anti-art, wouldn’t you say?

[limpid plank]

I don’t like any Disney + shows

So this won’t ever concern me

[indigo patrol]

Until other services start doing it lol

Think big picture

[jolly leaf]

Might as well delete it from the DSP while they’re at it 👏

[proper drift]

I’m with you on this and I enjoy Disney shows, this show was not it…

This has been done to shows before (maybe not other Disney shows idk), Acolyte drastically underperformed, maybe it will get picked up again if it gets a boost in numbers out of the blue on streaming but I really doubt it. It’s core audience that enjoyed it is super niche

[proper drift]

It did say fans are speculating that the show will be wiped, which I doubt they would do. them getting rid of merchandise makes sense if the merchandise is already perform poorly which lets face it it likely is, if they produced a large quantity of that stuff and barley anyone buying it would be waste to keep it up.

[wild ginkgo]

I mean

Ruby you got a point

But tbh

Won't be missed

[steady jay]

so apparently this was the first D+ Star Wars show to have a writers room instead of just a creator or two, and I'm just baffled how they managed to get it so wrong?

[void bear]

yeah i am truly shocked

like i am a mid at best writer and i could have done a better job

[modest night]

Warehouse space is extremely expensive, and every item you have in a warehouse makes your supply chain that much more complicated. Server space is relatively cheap, and streaming bandwidth only costs money if people are watching it. What might do it though is residuals, from my understanding streamers pay residuals for every show they have available at a flat rate, regardless of if people are watching it (because streamers have fought hard to keep viwership numbers in house, so they can choose what to release and what not to)

[indigo patrol]

They’ve wiped multiple shows before

[indigo patrol]

Again, the show was divisive, but not panned

Lots of people liked it, certainly plenty more than Boba Fett before the Mando episodes

Y’all are in a Discord bubble

[steady jay]

Again, this is my personal opinion that the writing on the show was terrible.

[jolly leaf]

Seems pretty panned to me

[indigo patrol]

Lmao

If you think audience scores can’t be manipulated then you’re deffo no older than 14

[jolly leaf]

I think you’re just living in a twitter bubble 😘

[indigo patrol]

Do you actually think Rotten Tomatoes audience scores work, or are you just being an overexcited kid

Cos if it’s the former then I worry for you lol

[jolly leaf]

Must I get you more stats?

A simple google can help you out

[indigo patrol]

Lol go for it

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh, this show isn’t even that original in terms of a Star Wars project

A lot of this stuff we’ve seen before, and done better in other Star Wars media

Like the “unique lore” argument doesn’t really hit for me at all.

[tawny zenith]

Review bomber scum.

[proper drift]

Not even just RT, let’s say we choose to use IMBD and reject all 1/10 the show still doesn’t do well. It has roughly as many 2/10 as it does 10/10 per region.

Looking at audience reactions across twitter, TikTok and YouTube it looked like it was getting torn a new one, the reviews and scores on RT, imbd kinda indicate that average viewer didn’t like it, along with its very low viewership

I’d think that paints a picture to Disney this project isn’t worth investing.

[proper drift]

They do 😅, it’s a matter of interpretations the scores.

In the case of RT it’s pretty obv show got review bomb

[indigo patrol]

In other words, it doesn’t work

[tawny zenith]

The bastards removed it.

It's gone.

The merch that is.

[proper drift]

Ah yes, I was planning on buying the Helmet and those Acolyte Lego sets 😔

[radiant copper]

Praise god this shit has been cancelled 🙏

I hope for a huge quality increase in Andor S2 and The Mandalorian film

[tawny zenith]

You haven't seen it. The combat is worth preserving

[radiant copper]

i have seen it

otherwise i would not have said it was shit

[tawny zenith]

You'd be amazed how many people shit on it without seeing it. My apologies.

[proper drift]

That lightsaber duel after ep 5 was good

the one where Sith sish kebobs Jedi

[proper drift]

One can only hope, they need to go for Kathleen job next

Put Faloni in charge

[wild ginkgo]

Not enough to save the show.

At all

[tawny zenith]

Shame. Wouldnt have said no to more SW Wushu.

[hidden cypress]

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/acolyte-canceled-star-wars-fandom-1235086713/

[steady jay]

they want a male, white, straight lead

[wild ginkgo]

And let me say this

The people being racist

And sending death threats? Fuck them, I’m not with those people

[steady jay]

few of us are. They're just being the loudest and most obnoxious

[indigo patrol]

Lmao

Mando isn’t gonna be a quality increase

[radiant copper]

I enjoyed the first 3 seasons. I have no reason to doubt it now

[radiant copper]

"The best" 😂

Genuinely the worst content they've put out since rise of skylwalker

[radiant copper]

The mandalorian and ahsoka both have a majority poc main/important cast. Ahsoka is (obviously) a woman lead (and a poc as an added bonus) with other major female roles like sabine in it. This argument has never made any sense to me because 2 of their most successful shows blatently proves this false

[proper drift]

Idk whenever a show such as Acolyte and She hulk get pummeled the directors and some cast and some people blame sexism racism for their poor decisions and writing choices. It’s like they want to shift blame on the audience rather than take accountability for wasting millions of dollars.

[radiant copper]

She hulk wasnt great but it wasnt the acolyte levels of bad. I found it to be a below average show. Some good scenes but also a lot of cringe scenes and dialogue and a bit of shitty plot.

The only thing i liked about the acolyte was SOME of the fight scenes. I genuinelly struggle to find parts i enjoyed about it and ironically my "favourite" episodes were the first 2 it got worse with each episode

[indigo patrol]

That just isn’t true is it though lol

Go onto Amandla Stenberg’s Instagram and let us know what you find

Of course there were writing issues, but the fans being discussed in things like that Rolling Stones article are the nasty ones

[radiant copper]

It just blatently is. Time and time again there is proof that poc and female casts can produced well beloved shows and films. Often using racism/sexism as an excuse for a failing show and in this case the cancellation is a blatent cop-out. A loud minority of incels and degenerates throwing abuse does not mean a show is being over hated. It just means the show is bad AND there are disgusting fans. The 2 can co-exist

[indigo patrol]

The loud minority are the ones review bombing and harassing

They’re the ones people are talking about

If you aren’t among those, you’re not the ones being talked about

So lower arms

[radiant copper]

It wasnt cancelled on reviews. A show is almost never cancelled on reviews. Its cancelled on money made, money spent and viewership.
In this case ALL 3 was a loss for the acolyte.
It made no money, it was expensive and it was the least watched star wars show by almost a half

All im saying is it deserved to be cancelled. Not that racists do not exist

[indigo patrol]

Ok

[radiant copper]

And that disney did not cancel it because of racists. They cancelled it because it was bad

[indigo patrol]

Ok

[indigo patrol]

I do think that, while the ratings were not great, a lot of this is still conjecture

The show was over-budgeted for what it was, and didn’t make enough of an impact

Both of those are undeniable

But I think the gang going around swearing it was “objectively bad” while Boba Fett and Ahsoka sneak by unscathed are… funny

They give me a giggle anyway

[radiant copper]

i actually liked boba fett, i ranked it in A teir. (btw also a joint poc lead show both boba and fennec are played by poc lmao) and to top it of boba fett was never ment to have several seasons its a limited show, like the queens gambit for example its ment to have a single season. it wasnt "cancelled" because it was never renewed nor ment to be renewed for following seasons

[indigo patrol]

Boba Fett would absolutely have had more seasons if it was received better lol

Who are we kidding

[radiant copper]

as for ahsoka, some love it some do not, i watched 2 episodes and need to finish it so i wont quote on its quality but you'll find it made more money and was watched more as well as other than "unbiased" reviews (review bombing) the reviews tend to be mixed not overwhelmingly negative like the acolyte

[indigo patrol]

some love it some do not

Sounds like The Acolyte

[radiant copper]

before the show even realised it was explicitly stated its a limited show. as far as i remember (not sure for fact) but the promotianal material literally had the words "limited show streaming..." on them

[indigo patrol]

The reviews for The Acolyte weren’t “overwhelmingly negative” tho y’all have made that up

[indigo patrol]

Uh huh

[radiant copper]

no a few like it a lot do not. very different. ahsoka is mixed, the acolyte is overwhelmingly negative. not close to the same

[indigo patrol]

Because Disney famously don’t do sequels to their successful IPs

[indigo patrol]

How are you measuring that

[radiant copper]

do you just not understand what limited show means?

[indigo patrol]

The Acolyte was not received “overwhelmingly negative”

Y’all just didn’t like it here

[indigo patrol]

Relax girl, we’re just talking

[radiant copper]

general reviews and opinions ive read on both sites like twitter & reddit as well as non review bomb reviews on sites like IMDB, RT and metacritic.

[indigo patrol]

"I don't know what's going on there. We're coming out of this downtime period so I think everyone is just settling back in and it all goes back to budgets and what they want to do and how much the thing costs. I really don't know. Judging by the fans I've met, they all want a season two, but I don't know what's going to happen."

[indigo patrol]

reddit

K

Have you any read reviews outside of the fandom by any chance?

[radiant copper]

you can still look at reviews and see besides the few bombing the show is generally received badly and the stats prove it, viewership and money made for the 2 are VASTLY different

[indigo patrol]

This was the Boba Fett star talking about S2 this year btw

Sounds like it’s always been up in the air

[indigo patrol]

What stats prove it babes?

[radiant copper]

i dont use it much but if i want to see a few opinions i tend to check wherever i can as to not see just 1 type of view which is why i gave like 5 examples of places you can look

[radiant copper]

the viewership, minutes viewed, views per episode, money spent v money made

all negative for the acolyte, cant say the same for ahsoka

[radiant copper]

all of these were either found or made public by disney

[indigo patrol]

Please don't use Reddit for reviews anymore lmao

[indigo patrol]

Can you link me to the minutes viewed and views per episode please?

[radiant copper]

im not arguing every single human hates the acolyte, im saying pretending the acolyte is on the same level as ahsoka is blatently disinegnious

[indigo patrol]

No, but you said the reception was "overwhelmingly negative"

Which it wasn't, you made that up

[radiant copper]

i dont just use reddit, i use a multitude of platforms when im curious about opinions on a show

[indigo patrol]

I never said it was on the same level as Ahsoka

[indigo patrol]

Like IMDb lol

[radiant copper]

overwhelmingly negative =/= completely negative

[indigo patrol]

Anyway, I googled The Acolyte reviews and spent about 12 seconds looking so

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/2024/06/04/star-wars-the-acolyte-review/

https://www.rogerebert.com/streaming/the-acolyte-star-wars-tv-review-2024

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/04/entertainment/star-wars-the-acolyte-review/index.html

https://www.avclub.com/the-acolyte-review-tv-disney-plus-star-wars-show-1851516930

https://observer.com/2024/06/the-acolyte-review-a-star-wars-show-thats-halfway-special-which-beats-the-average/

Seems very overwhelming doesn't it

https://www.indiewire.com/criticism/shows/the-acolyte-review-disney-star-wars-1235012035/

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/jun/05/the-acolyte-review-star-wars-gets-a-thrilling-new-hero

Panned, I tell you! Everyone hated it!

https://consequence.net/2024/06/the-acolyte-review-amandla-stenberg/

[radiant copper]

wow you found critic reviews from journalists when i was specifically talking about users. and as if media critics are commonly a source of unbiased reviews. some of these sites are the same that tried to produce a smear campaign on black myth wukong

[indigo patrol]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/the-acolyte-review-star-wars-disney-plus-1235913544/

https://variety.com/2024/tv/tv-reviews/the-acolyte-review-star-wars-disney-1236024002/

[indigo patrol]

Oh but the problem is that the user scores are very obviously review bombed lol

This has been an ongoing thing for years

Nobody is actually fooled by it except people who want to be

Is there a reason why journalists don't count, beyond the fact that they don't always say what you want?

First audience review that comes up... couldn't ask for a better example

Next up to the plate

[radiant copper]

its real simple to just not look at reviews that are not explained (why they think their rating) or not an obvious review bomb. i can make the exact same bs argument that a bunch of keyboard warriors who are upset the acolyte is cancelled are purposefully sending positive reviews too. i in fact have simply seeing the words "SaveTheAcolyte" or "DontGiveInToTheHate" amongst other buzzwords on reviewsites and commentary platforms. you HAND PICKING some reviews and using critic reviews does not negate what i have said.

[indigo patrol]

The best bit is that even with these reviews, there are still a BUNCH of positive ones

Indicating that the ratings are skewed more than the reviews are

The reviews are about 50/50

The ratings (i.e. the more bombable stat) are skewed

So yeah

[radiant copper]

i literally saw a tweet a few hours ago showing someone botting positive reviews to "bring the score back up"

[indigo patrol]

Seems real solid

[indigo patrol]

Sure but when you only look at reviews that are lengthy and have actual thoughts, they tend to not be as negative

There are negative ones, but a lot of 6s, 7s and 8s too

They only get lost when you factor in the ones lamenting R2D2 being a lesbian or whatever

[radiant copper]

you, as i to be fair, have provided no proof of this beyond a few hand picked screenshots and media critic reviews who some have a less than stellar reputation in terms of non bias.

[indigo patrol]

Which critics have I shared with a less than stellar reputation?

Actually I'll make it easier

Which critics have I shared who you actually know?

If you start naming outlets I'll laugh

So be warned

Critics go between outlets, you follow the individual not the website

[radiant copper]

CNN, The Guardian, Observer etc. only way some of these could be worse is if you used fucking IGN or the sun or some shit

[indigo patrol]

Right

None of those are critics though, are they?

[radiant copper]

they are media critic sites that dont tend to be unbiased

[indigo patrol]

It's so weird to me that fandoms think that websites are sentient somehow lmao

95% of critics are freelance, and go between different outlets for different features

Websites don't have opinions

They hire people who do, and then those people move on somewhere else

I am explaining employment to you now, soz

[radiant copper]

and yet its the same few sites that are usually in a controversy because of their obvious positive/negative bias when reviewing media

[indigo patrol]

To go back to this, can you name one?

[indigo patrol]

But the sites don't have bias

They aren't writing reviews

The Hollywood Reporter isn't a guy

It's insane to me that people don't get this

The Hollywood Reporter might hire someone to write their Acolyte review, who then goes on to write a Marvel review for CNN, or whatever

Critics have opinions, websites don't

So I'll go back to my question

[radiant copper]

but they do. its like me showing a fox news or the wire review and saying "its individual critics, you cant say the site is bias" when its obviously leaning in a direction or another

[indigo patrol]

Did you recognise a single one of the critics I shared?

[radiant copper]

you're being blatantly disingenuous and "troublesome" because you dont like what i have stated.

[indigo patrol]

I can prove this to you another way if you want to indulge me

What exactly do you think is The Guardian's bias about Star Wars?

I promise you they've done coverage that contradicts any bias you think they have

At some point

[radiant copper]

couldnt remember the word so i used troublesome. english isnt my only language so sorry about that

[radiant copper]

difficult?

[indigo patrol]

No I'm disagreeing with you, sorry if that's difficult for you to handle

[indigo patrol]

If you answer this I'll prove my point

[radiant copper]

disagreeing with someone isnt being difficult. intentionally acting stupid and pretending something isnt the way that is (in this case pretending media critics not being bias in 1 way or the other) is. as i said its like me bringing up fox news and saying its not bias because you dont know the critic

[indigo patrol]

It's not "intentionally acting stupid" to not agree with you

If you'd answer my question, I can show you my opinion

Do you think media critics are more biased than Star Wars fans?

Think about this before you answer it

"Fan" is the key giveaway

[radiant copper]

thats not what i said, and is another proof of weaponised incompetence. blatantly not what i said and yet your twisting it and acting as if it is what i said. the very first words of my message was "disagreeing with someone isnt being difficult"

[indigo patrol]

I'm very confident that you don't know what weaponised incompetence means

[indigo patrol]

Are you gonna answer my question or nah, cos I'm bored of being called names lol

[radiant copper]

well again, my language skills arent perfect here but i assumed its perposefully acting stupid or dumb and twisting something to get someone else to do something or agree with you

[indigo patrol]

Is that what you think I'm doing

[radiant copper]

i think you're being disingenuous in pretending things arent the way that they are because if you were honest you couldn't use critic reviews to prove a point critic reviews was never a topic in

[indigo patrol]

If you answer my question I can prove I'm not being disingenuous

Critic reviews are absolutely relevant when you're saying that The Acolyte's reception was "overwhelmingly negative"

But I don't want to talk about that

I want to know what you think is The Guardian's bias about Star Wars

If you could answer that, it'd be much appreciated

[radiant copper]

the guardian has in the past made controversial and blatantly bias reviews on other products and 1 google onto any media bias site shows they are a left leaning borderline fully left media company and to pretend they would not provide reviews with that in mind is untruthful. just as fox has a 4.0 rating (to the right) the guardian has a -2.4 (to the left). this is dangerously close if not straight up political talk but to pretend it does not matter in the context of critic reviews is wrong. most trust worth critic would be found between -1 to 1 as they often do not have a certain bias of any sort on media.

and again critic reviews biased or unbiased are often from the point of... critics, not the average person.

im done, im not going to argue with someone being disingenuous

[indigo patrol]

Why do you think being left-wing has anything to do with liking a Star Wars show?

Are you saying they only gave it a 3/5 because they're liberals?

[radiant copper]

no

[indigo patrol]

Ok

So

What are you saying?

[radiant copper]

do you not understand what bias is? why would you say a right leaning media company would be baised in reviewing a star wars show? a show can be reviewed negatively or positively by either side and still be biased.

[indigo patrol]

So what's the bias?

Is the bias that the critic is left-wing?

[radiant copper]

the bias is that the critic is either-wing inherently projecting views, opinions, positives and negatives onto a show, film, game, song, album etc. thats what bias means

[indigo patrol]

Right

[radiant copper]

have fun

[indigo patrol]

So are you saying anyone with political views shouldn't be allowed have an opinion on Star Wars?

Cos I'd say that rules out the vast majority of people, including most fans

[proper drift]

Boba was awful as well

[tawny zenith]

You'll never be able to tell me why they didnt remove the SW holiday special, which was 10 times worse than Willow and 100 times worse than the Acolyte.

[proper drift]

They didn’t remove the Acolyte though, they canceled its second season. The first season is on Disney plus

[tawny zenith]

It'll come.

[proper drift]

if they removed the first season, that would be messed up

[proper drift]

I’ll bet you money it doesn’t

[tawny zenith]

They did it to Willow.

[proper drift]

What’s willow

[tawny zenith]

Exactly.

It was a medieval fantasy series that was the sequel to an awesome medieval fantasy movie from the 90's.

[proper drift]

Is it this one?

[tawny zenith]

That's the movie. Awesome movie, recommend.

But the series was removed.

Not just canned, removed!

They made season 1, posted it, then pulled it.

ass bandits.

[proper drift]

Yeah I’m not sure I agree with the decision to pull it seems kinda fucked. Tho I’d def not green lit second season,

“Willow's audience was reportedly amongst the lowest for a Disney+ show with industry analysts Samba TV reporting that only 481,000 households watched the show in its first five days of release despite two episodes being available. At the other end of the spectrum, the debut episode of hit Marvel streaming show Loki attracted 2.5 million households over the same timeframe according to Samba TV.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2023/08/15/revealed-the-abandoned-streaming-series-that-cost-disney-100-million/

[tawny zenith]

Eh. Just bitter i dont get to see the proper end. Where i come from, you start something, you end it. Season 1 of a show is like a promise, cancellation's going back on your word.

Of course, when money's involved, who cares about honor.

[indigo patrol]

It’s one of the big issues with the streaming model

More and more often people aren’t bothering to invest in a show when the majority get cancelled

[proper drift]

At the end of the day the business need to make a profit how else are they going to pay all the people that worked on the movie/tvshow

[tawny zenith]

Like i said. Why be friggin decent when being rich and in buisness is more important.

It sucks.

[wild ginkgo]

He ain’t wrong

[indigo patrol]

And nobody was disagreeing with that lol

Babes you have a tendency for picking and choosing the bits you read

[wild ginkgo]

So why are we acting like it ain’t true

[indigo patrol]

We ain’t

That wasn’t what the conversation was about lmao

[wild ginkgo]

Like Acolyte is some special case

Not you

[indigo patrol]

Nope

[wild ginkgo]

In herbal

General

[indigo patrol]

No one was saying that

[wild ginkgo]

Oh there are people saying that shit

[indigo patrol]

It’s a special case for only one reason, and it’s a big one - Disney don’t cancel shows

[wild ginkgo]

……

[indigo patrol]

They didn’t ‘cancel’ She-Hulk or Boba Fett or whatever else

They just stopped making them

[wild ginkgo]

“Disney doesn’t cancel shows”

[indigo patrol]

A quiet, dignified death

[indigo patrol]

Stop deliberately misreading lol

[wild ginkgo]

Ruby in effect it’s the same thing.

[indigo patrol]

Exactly lol

So why announce they’re cancelling it

Why not let it die with dignity like all the others

What makes it a, to use your words

‘Special case’

[wild ginkgo]

This seems kinda petty tbh

[indigo patrol]

Then tell me

[wild ginkgo]

“You used the word canceled!!!!” Like come on

[indigo patrol]

By announcing cancellation, they made it a special case

That’s the only thing that makes it different to She Hulk

[wild ginkgo]

Tbh, not really.

It’s effectively the same thing

[indigo patrol]

I’m not giving an opinion here, I’m telling you

[wild ginkgo]

And I’m telling you, you’re splitting hairs

[indigo patrol]

There was zero arguing when She Hulk and Boba Fett didn’t come back

But announcing cancellation draws attention

And causes arguments

So why draw attention to it, when you didn’t to the others?

Answer me that

[wild ginkgo]

They did?

[indigo patrol]

Cos it has made a demonstrable different in terms of reaction

[wild ginkgo]

Plenty of controversy happened when she hulk was clearly not getting a second season

Again splitting hairs

[indigo patrol]

Was there

Where?

[wild ginkgo]

Do you want me to pull up every single comment about she hulk getting turned down for season 2?

[indigo patrol]

Labelling something as cancelled and taking its merch off the store a month after airing is very clearly going to cause waves

[indigo patrol]

I think you’re coming at this in very bad faith lol

Either treat this like a conversation or we can stop

[jolly leaf]

I don’t think Disney specifically announced that it was cancelled

[indigo patrol]

They did, that’s just wrong

👍

[wild ginkgo]

??????

Bro😂

You’re the one splitting hairs over industry terminology

This ain’t special, it ain’t new

[indigo patrol]

It’s a lot more than the word, you’re the one latching onto that

It’s special because it’s the only time they’ve done it lol

[wild ginkgo]

No you are

[indigo patrol]

I’m not saying why that’s special

I’m saying by definition it literally is a special case

That’s their doing

Nothing to do with the show or quality

If this exact thing had happened to say, Ms Marvel

Then that’d be the special case