🎥 The Little Mermaid

[leaden iron]

I know, I was working in China at the time

[wary wasp]

Far more people liked it than hated it

6.2 average out of 10 isn't nothing

[leaden iron]

<--- ethnically Chinese, but Canadian... worked in Shanghai for 16 years

[coarse bridge]

Did they know about the things wrong with it?

[wary wasp]

I dunno, I thought it was really good

[leaden iron]

let me try to translate

hmmm

[wary wasp]

Those are anecdotal reviews

To be fair

[leaden iron]

sigh... from ACTUAL target audience

[wary wasp]

True, but still anecdotal

[leaden iron]

if you are to negate every one of my "on going" discourse, then I prefer to be silent

[wary wasp]

I'm not negating. I just don't think two reviews can be taken as indicative of general thoughts

A larger sample size is needed, I think.

[leaden iron]

I'm taking the top rated comments, not ALL 21998 comments

[wary wasp]

Hmm

Fair enough

[leaden iron]

but, you want to let others finish first, or talk by yourself?

Anyhow...

[wary wasp]

Go on. Sorry if I came across the wrong way.

[leaden iron]

the GENERAL CONSENSUS is that while everyone's generally good, but the whole direction had too much influences from other stories, and padding, as the original poem is actually pretty short

[wary wasp]

I could understand that

[leaden iron]

And then there are a whole lot of comment saying that 1998 Mulan was better

and a whole lot of comment saying that 2020 Mulan was crap lol

[wary wasp]

Fair enough

[coarse bridge]

So like "worse" doesent always mean bad. It just means "not the same level of good."

[wary wasp]

I still think Jingle Ma's film is the best, though

[earnest pelican]

i love the generla consensus that the 2020 mulan is awful

[wary wasp]

Just works for me

[wary wasp]

Well, of course

"Worse" is a relative term

Like, I think Inland Empire is worse than Eraserhead

But I still think Inland Empire is a masterpiece

[leaden iron]

I would argue that the 1939 movie was the closest to the actual content... but the art direction on that film is atrocious, even for war time

[wary wasp]

It's longer than Ma's film, too

That one might be worth checking out

The 1939 film

[leaden iron]

It's a got a bit of the "we are prepping for war" vibe

[wary wasp]

Of course. That definitely reflects the time in which it was made

[leaden iron]

It's also what Disney actually pulled the closest from, for the 1998

[wary wasp]

Yeah, some cursory research on Wikipedia calls it a "musical comedy"

I wonder if that's an accurate description

[leaden iron]

it is... because the original poem had been done in Chinese Opera for centuries

there's a 40s version that's an adaptation from HK Chinese Opera

[wary wasp]

This one?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_General_Hua_Mu-lan

This looks cool

[leaden iron]

but anyways, the original 400ad text isn't very long, here's a translation if you want to read

Oh 60s, not 40s...

[wary wasp]

I've read it

[leaden iron]

yeah that one

[wary wasp]

Really cool text

[leaden iron]

https://mulanbook.com/pages/northern-wei/ballad-of-mulan

anyhow,... let's get back on topic

[wary wasp]

the toxic topic

[leaden iron]

If you just let people PARTY a little bit, before dropping your takes, people wouldn't be as annoyed, you dig?

[wary wasp]

i understand that, but i'm not one to conceal my opinion when i feel strongly about something. it's not who i am

but i guess i could do with a bit of restraint

[deft lance]

It's only toxic when you make it that way

Girls just wanna have fun

[leaden iron]

exactly... just be an adult (or over 14, as Discord EULA) lol

[earnest pelican]

Technically its 13

unless its changed

[leaden iron]

Just hold back a bit, and let other people party a bit, while you have a drink lol

[wary wasp]

And I'm 9 years above that threshold, so I'm in the clear there

[leaden iron]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-alter-the-deal-empire-strikes-back-star-wars-gif-15971205

But yeah... restraint

Hedge didn't like it either

[wary wasp]

But I still would like my time on the stage. Everyone needs it and deserves it. Even dissenters.

[leaden iron]

You've LITERALLY been talking double everyone else tho

Even more than ME

and I'm KINGTALK

[deft lance]

[wary wasp]

I mean that is true

But I probably had a stronger reaction to the film than anyone else did

[leaden iron]

Yeah... any stronger you might need to seek medical attention

[wary wasp]

I still might need medical attention

[leaden iron]

Can inject you with good taste!!!! Booyah!!! Mic DROP!!!!

j/k

[wary wasp]

Live BEN reaction: 😐

[leaden iron]

Here's the equation... if there are say, 20 people talking... you should talk no more than once every 10 comments, 20 if you want to be super stealthy... Take it from KINGTALK here... it's easy to go overboard

Or Meller can drop Slowmode... and then NOBODY wins

[wary wasp]

This whole ordeal has exhausted me, both mentally and physically, so you probably don't have to worry about that anymore

[leaden iron]

Naw, I get y’a

[wary wasp]

I probably will just avoid this thread for the time being

[leaden iron]

Just, take it slow and breathe

[wary wasp]

My strong opinion will always be unwelcome in a thread like this, which is understandable

The people who frequent this thread are more likely going to be people who like the film

[leaden iron]

Now you’re just being passive aggressive

[wary wasp]

Not at all

These are genuine thoughts

[leaden iron]

It’s not your opinion that’s the problem, it’s the speed that you sent it and cut into things that is

[wary wasp]

I can always take my hate party elsewhere

No skin off my nose

[leaden iron]

Hedge didn’t like the film, but we can still talk, no? @earnest pelican

[wary wasp]

To be fair, Hedge's opinions aren't as strong as mine

And they don't even like the OG film

My opinions are much more extreme and polar. I adore the OG film and detest the remake

[leaden iron]

Strong opinions and fast comments aren’t mutually exclusive tho; the former is fine, the latter is what gets people mad

[earnest pelican]

I did not like it no

I thought it was too long

[leaden iron]

They want to get their words in too

[earnest pelican]

And that story is stupid lol

Why be a human when you can be a mermaid

Always be a mermaid

[leaden iron]

Heh, face it, you just want to be a mermaid

[earnest pelican]

obvs

it looks cool

[wary wasp]

The big question is why be a mermaid when you can be a half-octopus?

[leaden iron]

Hah

[earnest pelican]

ALSO THE MOVIE IS SO FUCKING DARK

[wary wasp]

Like, Triton and Ursula are apparently siblings (I think there is basis in the source material for this)

[earnest pelican]

i was like

turn up the darn lights here please

[leaden iron]

I wondered about that years ago actually… 8 legs… technically Ursula is 3/4 octopus

[wary wasp]

So how does that work? Was Ursula once a mermaid but was transformed as punishment or something?

Or did she come out the womb/egg that way?

[short mantle]

Could be half siblings

[wary wasp]

So many overthink-y implications for the remake

[short mantle]

Same dad

[leaden iron]

Key is… is Triton a god?

[deft lance]

adoption

testtube

[wary wasp]

Like, for example, Triton's daughters. It's likely that Triton gets around. So who is the legitimate heir to the throne?

[leaden iron]

Aren’t those kinda your answer for everything?

[wary wasp]

I want a sequel to the remake to be about the kingdom's succession crisis upon Triton's death

Each mersister has her own faction to lead in the fight for the throne

[deft lance]

if it fits

[leaden iron]

Cullen families… adoption… Hunger Games… adoption… seeing a pattern there lol

[deft lance]

lol

[wary wasp]

Tbh I'd watch that

An mermaid war film

[leaden iron]

Oooh mermaid wars

[wary wasp]

Now, if only it could be 4 hours long...

[leaden iron]

Have to at least match LoTR trilogy

[wary wasp]

But yeah I'd watch a film about Triton's death and the succession crisis that follows

[leaden iron]

Totally stealing the mermaid wars idea

[wary wasp]

Will Ariel's faction win the war? Or will one of her sisters take over? It's a free-for-all!

[leaden iron]

I’m not going with those, I’ll make my own mermaids, with hookers and booze and black Jack… in fact, forget the blackjack and booze

[wary wasp]

merhookers

[leaden iron]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-blackjack-and-hookers-bender-gif-20104589

[wary wasp]

Lmfao

Maybe I should write a script

Maybe Ariel wants to unite the underwater kingdom with the land kingdom

But each sister is all like, "No, I'M the legit heir!"

[leaden iron]

Your mermaid wars will be vastly different than mine, so whatever, just do eeet

[wary wasp]

Lmfao

I mean, the remake leaves these questions unanswered. THESE ARE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!

[leaden iron]

Commonality, there are mermaids, and there’s a war… possibly with deaths

[wary wasp]

Oh, there are deaths in pretty much all wars

Except those that last, like, a day

[leaden iron]

Prince Eff-it with his human army on boats

[wary wasp]

Oh now the humans are tryna stake claim to the merkingdom

[wary wasp]

Evil mermaid general with her shark minion

BLOOD WILL...drift calmly into the vast waters of the ocean...uhhhh...DEATH! AHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

[leaden iron]

Sharks with lasers on their heads

anyhow, I should cleanup the kitchen, have an early morning

[wary wasp]

Yeah I'm gonna go to sleep

Fucking EXHAUSTED

[wary wasp]

Have a good night, brother

[exotic sapphire]

No way this channel got over a thousand comments already

[short mantle]

Ikr

[clear stone]

https://vxtwitter.com/criminalplaza/status/1662214310519791616

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/FilmUpdates/status/1662394822265643009

Film Updates (@FilmUpdates)

‘THE LITTLE MERMAID’ has received an A CinemaScore from audiences.

Likes

130

Twitter · May 27, 2023, 9:46 AM

[simple sphinx]

I’m seeing this Wednesday is it a solid remake?

[clear stone]

Yes

[simple sphinx]

@clear stone what’s your lb

[clear stone]

https://boxd.it/v9Qj

[simple sphinx]

Oh wait I already follow you lmfao

[paper monolith]

Paul

[clear stone]

Mando

[simple sphinx]

Walker

[clear stone]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-ariel-sebastian-the-little-mermaid-happy-gif-12322928411204863071

[paper monolith]

I followed you @clear stone

[clear stone]

Thank you I’ll check whenever I next go on

But yes this movie is fine

It’s almost identical to the original with just a few of the scenes extended

So if you like the original you’ll like it

[paper monolith]

I love the songs and that's a big reason I wanna see it

[clear stone]

They are different but like

It’s like any cover

[coarse bridge]

The more i look at Ben, the more i feel like the bad habits i'm trying to beat have passed on to him.

[coarse bridge]

Eric has a song that owns. Vocally.

And all of Ariel's songs are...chef's kiss*

[paper hatch]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S5GE0IjJAns&t=322s

[clear stone]

You’re under arrest for voice transfer

[clear stone]

https://tenor.com/view/coming-in-ariel-halle-bailey-the-little-mermaid-swimming-in-gif-26853328

[leaden iron]

I loved it, wife thought the nuances in acting directions, particularly Ariel (too unconfident) and Eric (too emo), to be a bit of an odd choice.

[dusky scarab]

over 1k messages here already holy shit

[lavish knoll]

Was actually a rly good remake im pleasantly surprised

I might actually review this bc I want ppl to know this one was made with energy and care

and will refrain from using the word actually in the review lmao

[leaden iron]

Well, it seems polarizing, as those in the majority who likes it, LOVES it, the slightly less percentage of people who dislikes it, HATES it.

I think it finally boils down to the small differences and weird decisions made by Rob and the the team. If you can tolerate them, it’s ok… if you notice them and cannot tolerate them, it becomes “death by a thousand cuts” and unbearable.

[lavish knoll]

Yeah

I liked how the prince was an actual character with some dreams of his own

It added to Ariel’s curiosity

His appreciation for culture was an interesting addition

But it makes sense given the environment he was raised in

[leaden iron]

Wife didn’t like the acting direction of Ariel and Eric, but I do. I think that makes a MAJOR difference too.

[lavish knoll]

I thought they did pretty fine

[leaden iron]

Me too, wife didn’t think so

[lavish knoll]

I felt they had chemistry. Eric had some more subtle acting I could tell thru his eyes and facial expressions, like being surprised at Ariel’s characteristics and falling in love with her progressively

And his companion dude what’s his name, favorite character

Who encouraged him to be with Ariel

[leaden iron]

Sir Grimsby

[lavish knoll]

Yea, I loved his character

[leaden iron]

He’s a good character in the original too

Not enough Max, just thought of it lol

[lavish knoll]

Facts

[dusky scarab]

Halle has a great singing voice from what ive heard

listened to part of your world

[coarse bridge]

This whole movie, vocally, is pretty stellar, imo.

I listened to the album.

[leaden iron]

Again, Wild Uncharted Waters is SO MUCH better audio only lol

[coarse bridge]

Hence why i said "vocally". Let it be known i totally agree with you on that particular point.

[leaden iron]

I was agreeing with you, lol

For the First Time had a couple of weird vocal change that directionally felt weird for me, but I’d blame the vocal director on that, not the artist

[celest cloud]

What im gathering about this film - Performances and songs are good, everything else sucks

[leaden iron]

“He’s coming through those doors” and “From that moment” felt a bit off

[leaden iron]

See my comment on “death by a thousand cut” earlier

[turbid ridge]

Yeah this was a lot better than I thought it was going to be

I think visually this movie was fantastic

The water scenes could be better but there are certain shots that were just incredible

[sonic scroll]

whats up anyone want to discuss the box office for this film?

[coarse bridge]

how low is it?

[misty haven]

The first day looks to be 38 million, and it will be 120 million by the end of the weekend.

[coarse bridge]

not too shabby.

[misty haven]

One things for sure Cybornut quoted "There is no way to predict the box office", I see youtubers talking bad about this movie before it was even released, saying "its going to be a box office flop".

There are 8 videos from a single youtuber talking bad about it for the past 2-3 months

Seems like waiting to see the results, is the answer to all this

[alpine kite]

brb

[short mantle]

Have fun, mines tomorrow

[tawdry sun]

Wait guys

Was this actually good?

[alpine kite]

Yup!

[paper hatch]

Yes it definitely was

[exotic sapphire]

No way

[celest cloud]

Pretty good movie id say

I really liked the scuttle and Sebastian dynamic

Though I felt as if flounder was such a second thought

I forgot he was even in the movie at one point

But yeah I'd say it was pretty decent. The acting was great, the VFX looked pretty well made, and overall a real quality experience.

I do wish they did change the script a bit. Maybe they could have really leaned into the comedy aspect and made it something like Shrek in a way

There was some real room for more over the top comedy that I think could have serviced the movie really well. But that's just what i think

[wary wasp]

It's the worst of the remakes in my opinion lmao

[celest cloud]

Nah that would be the lion king

[wary wasp]

eh i think a big reason why i hate this remake so much is because of that fact that i think the passion, charm, and exuberance of the original are the original film's biggest strengths. And I love the original. Like, a lot. When I see a remake that lacks that passion, that charm, and that exuberance, it's going to feel off to me.

But I'm glad others like it. Really, I am. It's just not something I'm going to like. Lmfao.

[coarse bridge]

You still at it? Damn.

You're one persistent son of a gun.

[alpine kite]

opinions are fine, but don't be a buzzkill bout it. Like you don't need to comment on someone asking "is the movie good?" with nothing but negativity, just not needed.

[celest cloud]

i left 15 mins in

[leaden iron]

last 30min was great! hmmm

heh, the only movie I left the theater for was the red carpet premiere of like some Frog Man or something Chinese animation feature I was invited to... it was SO bad

[lavish knoll]

Your half a star is brutal ngl but oh well

[short mantle]

Eh he gave it to the rest of the remakes lol

[lavish knoll]

Don’t tell me even cruella

[leaden iron]

Cruella is a re-imagine, not a re-make tho

So it needs MUCH more creativity

As in, it didn't have the originals' structures to fall back on, and/or tweak with. The upside is, that it wouldn't be compared to the originals as much, because it's really "something different"

[short mantle]

"I just wanted to wear a coat made of puppies"
(All the other disney villans look in fear/disgust)

[alpine kite]

John Wick would beat Ariel in a gun fight any day.

[clear stone]

I told you!

Well idk about really good but it was good

[celest cloud]

we get it ben
you’re very bitter as hell cause they “ruined” one of your favorites… again

🙄

[lavish knoll]

Lol yes you did, I’m glad I was wrong about this movie

[coarse bridge]

Unless she trained like Halle Berry.

[deft lance]

https://tenor.com/view/loser-bet-yeah-right-really-gif-25063320

[wary wasp]

To put it as kindly as I can put it, that is what most of these remakes do for me. Cruella is probably the lone exception, as that film is almost good on its own. That and I'm not crazy about 101 Dalmatians. I AM crazy about Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, though.

I think Stephen Sommers' Jungle Book might be a live-action remake that I actually like. I'm not huge on the animated original — in fact, I'm probably going to watch that first because it's been so long — but I also really like Stephen Sommers. Same guy who wrote and directed the 1999-2001 Mummy movies and Van Helsing, all of which are movies that I really like if I don't just plain love.

The Mummy Returns is one of the best action-adventure films ever made, in my opinion. I just really like Sommers' style.

Which is why I think I'll like his remake of Jungle Book.

But that's just me. If you like these remakes, that's great! Really, I'm glad people enjoy them. They're just REALLY not my thing. Lmao.

[simple sphinx]

@wary wasp rank the live action Disney remakes best to worst

[wary wasp]

I'd have to give that some thought

Cruella is easily the best of the ones I've seen. I strongly dislike the rest lmfao

[simple sphinx]

Would you count that though

It’s not like a remake it’s a prequel

[wary wasp]

I mean, Wikipedia lists it

So it's good enough for me

And I only think that film is mid anyway

It's almost good

Third act destroys the film tho

[simple sphinx]

I mean it’s a good film

[wary wasp]

I mean, I like the first two acts

If the movie stopped when ||Cruella strutted out in that dalmatian coat in front of that woman||, the film would've been better

[simple sphinx]

The costumes was really good

Ben what’s your lb

[wary wasp]

https://letterboxd.com/yalekolin/

[simple sphinx]

I followed you

https://boxd.it/1oqp5

Here’s mine

[wary wasp]

followed ya right back

[turbid ridge]

Lin Manuel Miranda will forever be my mortal enemy for subjecting me to Awkwafina rapping for five minutes

[leaden iron]

2min and 2secs… but I guess it would feel longer if you didn’t like the way the song was made, or Awkwafina’s um… “unique” voice.

It works slightly better in isolation than in theaters, son loved it….

[coarse bridge]

You either hate the Scuttlebutt or you like it, i guess...

[leaden iron]

It’s tonally out of place, but I see it as a chapter break that breaks thing between “it’s gonna go wrong” to “it’s gone wrong”

Again, not “wrong” choices, but “strange” choices, and those can accumulate if you are sensitive to them.

[coarse bridge]

I like the mad flow at the end.

[leaden iron]

The hard part is getting used to Awkwafina’s voice… she’s in tune, and her vocal quality makes is really hard to auto tune without losing the “feel”. Again, I like it, but I can see how a lot of people could be turned off by it.

[celest cloud]

Lin Manuel Miranda is an absolute hero for gracing me with another 10/10 banger with Awkwafina for 5 minutes that I will forever and ever treasure

I feel like all the hate for Awkwafina is exaggerated and forced

Well on Twitter anyways

Idk what people in the real world have to think but I'm sure they'd be indifferent at the very worst

[leaden iron]

It's a habit issue... some people just can't agree to certain choices made with the remake, and that's just how it is. Like, the choice of going with a Theater-Style vocal performance, including the more raw/live feel, is something that a LOT of people don't agree with, particularly when songs like Scuttlebutt and Unfortunate Souls are more "produced"... it could feel like a mixed-bag/mess, to some people. The movie is full of choices like that, not wrong, just strange, and subjectively disagreeable to some people.

If you like strange and hot takes etc... you actually would REALLY like those choices... heh

[celest cloud]

We all have our own opinions. It's just that some opinions feel too manufactured and fake to push a narrative of sorts. Probably more manufactured than the actual movie itself. Like honestly people say things and there's an unsaid expectation that I should go along with it. Could just be a "me thing"

"me thing" or not it is the vibe i get a lot of the time

[coarse bridge]

I wish more opinions were honest.

Some feel like a "following the prejudice trend" thing or "i have to think that or others will call me stupid".

Be honest with yourselves. Own it. its all good.

In moderation, mind you.

[paper hatch]

Ya but i feel like when there are certain people who are hating TLM from the start esp in their YouTube channels.. there's no way they can then say they liked the movie after seeing the movie for fear of losing audience

[coarse bridge]

Yup. "I was wrong" doesent cut it.

Quite unfortunate.

When honesty has no value.

[paper hatch]

Absolutely

[coarse bridge]

If i ever make a youtube channel, I'll just keep going regardless of my subs and likes counts.

I'll do it for my own fun. Whatever happens then, happens.

[paper hatch]

Unfortunately a lot of YouTube channels aren't like that, they have to generate hate and hence they can't really be honest to air their views, if they tell a audience that they liked a movie that they have been hating for months.. they are almost finished.

[leaden iron]

Personally, I also think a lot of people go into the theaters expecting to not like it, and therefore start to notice all the issues, which causes the “death by a thousand cuts” theory that I have to manifest. Then it just becomes a negative feedback loop. I mean the opinions are valid, but I donno… I guess it’s inevitable to look at it through the lens of the original.

[keen orbit]

idk why but i already disliked this movie

but good reviews from lb so im confused

[wary wasp]

nah it's just your opinion

it's a valid opinion lmao

and it's an opinion i just so happen to share with you

[keen orbit]

so

is it trash? or what?

[wary wasp]

well, i think it's trash

[keen orbit]

obviously

[wary wasp]

but you've seen it (or that's the impression i'm getting)

what do you think?

[keen orbit]

wait

you watched the whole 2 hours of that monstrosity???

[wary wasp]

yep

[keen orbit]

jesus christ

[wary wasp]

i had to in order to review it fairly

[keen orbit]

i knew something is wrong when i saw this

[wary wasp]

i feel ripped off despite having not paid disney a dime for my free ticket

[keen orbit]

and then theres this

the actual rating is 4.7/10

not surprised anymore that Disney got tired of this

[wary wasp]

this film is receiving review bombs -- both positive and negative

it's just that the negative review bombs come with more stigma than the positive review bombs

[keen orbit]

the cgi is also horrendous to look at

like

[paper hatch]

Without watching it?? Come on

[keen orbit]

"holy shit is that flounders" -my sis

[wary wasp]

yes it is

[keen orbit]

idk but looking at the crab and the fish made me feel dead inside 💀

[wary wasp]

the movie honestly felt incomplete -- there were times when i thought to myself, "this is the finished product?"

[paper hatch]

I can never take seriously any opinion where people will say they think the movie is automatically bad without even seeing it first

[wary wasp]

a lot of that had to do with the visuals

[keen orbit]

what do you think of the movie?

[wary wasp]

and there are times when the movie looks like it was shot for netflix

and not the good kind of netflix movie

[paper hatch]

Very much enjoyed it.. its on my top tier disney live action remakes

And I wasn't a fan of the original animated movie

[wary wasp]

i honestly can't be surprised that this film got such a positive reception -- these remakes almost always do

for some reason

[keen orbit]

most people were mad cause of the black ariel 💀

[paper hatch]

It's just a lot of fun imo

[keen orbit]

thats what i heard

[wary wasp]

honestly, that's not a real reason to be upset. there is NO SHORTAGE of things to hate in that film

[paper hatch]

Which was stupid because Halle Bailey is absolutely fantastic in the movie and even people who didn't like the movie are saying that.

Like her singing in this movie is just incredible

[wary wasp]

eh

halle bailey's singing is decent

[keen orbit]

yes i didnt hate the actress at all

[wary wasp]

i still do prefer jodi benson's singing, but i'll take halle bailey over emma watson any day

[keen orbit]

just how dark everything feels and pale

including flounders and that crab

[wary wasp]

but halle bailey isn't allowed to really act. rob marshall's leaden direction always gets in the way

[paper hatch]

It didn't feel that to me but again I am not a fan of the original animated movie..

[keen orbit]

like they desaturated and removed the expressions of the animated characters

[wary wasp]

oh yeah

[keen orbit]

the only thing i like about this is

[wary wasp]

the film is so dull

[keen orbit]

Javier Bardem

because why not? i love him

[wary wasp]

his performance might be the worst of the movie

i love javier bardem

he's awesome in no country for old men and mother!

but he just feels CHECKED OUT whenever he's on-screen in the mermaid remake

[keen orbit]

yes i agree

[paper hatch]

And herein lies the problem.. you need to separate the two, live action can't be the same as animation

[wary wasp]

i mean, i guess i can't blame him -- this was probably a paycheck role and these remakes never allow their characters to have any charisma

[paper hatch]

Bardem was alright.. I mean not a big role

[wary wasp]

i actually think the mermaid remake fails more as its own film than as a remake

[paper hatch]

I totally disagree.. I think the movie works perfectly

[keen orbit]

cant blame that too tho. but i've never been so nerve wrecked by looking at a live action character since cats

The Lion King 2019 remake was fine

[paper hatch]

A lot of people are also liking this movie, I mean.. much more than I thought they would.

[keen orbit]

this one somehow lost my interest

[wary wasp]

there are so many moments that had great emotional weight in the original that are basically glossed over in the remake -- sped up, completely robbed of that emotional weight. those moments in the remake REQUIRE the emotional context of the original in order for the audience to feel the requisite emotion. the audience has to fill in the blanks, so to speak. that's how ALL these remakes work.

[keen orbit]

later ill watch it once it was on disney+ or something

because im wasting my money on that

[wary wasp]

good idea. don't give disney money on it

[keen orbit]

saving to Oppenheimer and barbie

or other indie movies

[wary wasp]

if you had never seen the original, you'd probably be in a WORSE position to enjoy the remake

because you wouldn't have the requisite emotional context in order to truly grasp those moments

but for me, it was kind of the other way around

i LOVE the animated original. it's my favorite narrative animated disney film

so to see this remake gloss over those amazing moments of such rich emotion as if they were cliffnotes was very insulting to me

take the scene where triton destroys ariel's grotto

that scene had so much emotion in the original, so many extreme colors and flashes of light, so much expression from the characters

in the remake, it's replicated with all the emotion and gravitas of a disney theme park stage show, and looks the part as well

also, the script in that part is ridiculously dumbed down

"i set certain rules and i expect those rules to be obeyed" becomes "you broke the rules"

[keen orbit]

i will not debate since i havent watch it yet.

lol

[wary wasp]

of course. i'm just explaining lmao

i also hate how the film tries to "grow up" its fantasy

because the film feels no more grown up than the original in any true sense. these are just insipid, vain attempts at establishing an elusive and ultimately false verisimilitude

like, the first major dilemma of the original is ariel skipping out on a big concert in which her sisters appear

but in the remake, ariel misses what is essentially a diplomatic meeting set on the "coral moon" which her sisters attend. the "coral moon" is never really explained -- or if it is explained, it's not explained well

also, instead of calling the world above the waves "the surface," it's called "the above world," as if to make the world above feel more alien and presumably hostile

but this change in nomenclature doesn't really make the film feel more adult or grown up, nor does it make the world above feel any more alien or hostile. it just sounds goofy at best and shows a complete lack of self-awareness at worst

i can complain mightily all day about mistakes both macro and micro that the film makes, but those are just a couple, and i do think i've typed enough lmao

[bold jewel]

does it suck

[wary wasp]

in my opinion, yes.

[coarse bridge]

Would youtube shut me down mechanically? If not, what else would stop me?

[wary wasp]

but i am glad other people like it. honestly, that's the case with any film i dislike or hate. if the mermaid remake made a deep connection for others, that's great! who am i to take that away from them? it's just really not my thing, and that's fine too

[paper hatch]

Not YouTube per se but the audiences may just leave the channel

[coarse bridge]

So? I'd still be going.

[paper hatch]

I don't get your question. What are you asking ?

[coarse bridge]

That happens alot, sorry...

Just asking if i can keep a youtube channel going just for kicks, regardless of audience or lack thereof.

For as long as i want.

[wary wasp]

i mean, as long as you aren't shouting racial slurs or shit like that, you should be fine lmfao

[coarse bridge]

Not my style.

[wary wasp]

Then you should be alright. Lmao.

[coarse bridge]

I'm all about love and coexistence.

[paper hatch]

Absolutely you can, I never said you can't.. I was just saying that these days many YouTube channels engage in hate of movies (without seeing it) for views that's all.. and most of us already know what movie they are gonna hate next

[coarse bridge]

I would never do that.

[paper hatch]

I'm sure you won't and a lot of us have YouTube channels right, of course many of us don't post stuff in it but just for subscriptions and stuff

[coarse bridge]

I gave TLM every chance to impress me.

So far i like the songs. Havent seen the movie yet.

i might tomorrow, when theater prices go cheap for a day

[paper hatch]

Well the songs are great and the movie for me was enjoyable but you gotta watch yourself to determine it..

[coarse bridge]

Of course. 🙂

Yes. We know, Ben.

[wary wasp]

I've been onto this movie for a long time, ever since it went into production. I'm always skeptical of these remakes, and I especially thought that Rob Marshall would be the wrong person to handle a film like The Little Mermaid. And my skepticism was validated by what Disney churned out. Lmao.

[paper hatch]

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking TLM for various reasons except of course the reason being the actress playing Ariel is not white and hence the movie sucks

[coarse bridge]

Yah, that's just racism.

[wary wasp]

i honestly hate how so many people believe that the only reason people dislike the remake is because they're racist. that's not how healthy discourse around a film is built

those racist people do exist, but they're not the majority of the film's detractors

[paper hatch]

Well, you have other reasons for not liking the movie which is absolutely fine but I have seen many such people and there was quite a backlash regarding her casting too initially.. a lot of 1 stars on IMDB are from those people.

Even you don't think TLM is 1 out of 10 right?

[coarse bridge]

I have a problem tho because i dont get caught up on cgi fish looking like...fish.

[wary wasp]

i do think it's a 1/10, but none of it has to do with halle bailey being ariel

[paper hatch]

The fish doesn't have a big role, the crab is pretty delightful

[wary wasp]

i just think it's a terrible film lmao

[paper hatch]

1 out of 10?? Seriously ??

[wary wasp]

yep.

it's honestly the worst of these remakes for me

[paper hatch]

I know of tons of movie that's 1 out 10, TLM is 7.5/10 for me easy

[coarse bridge]

Often. More than once in the same sentence.

[wary wasp]

here's a little tidbit

i've seen a lot of movies in theaters

seeing mermaid was the first time i ever considered walking out of a movie in the theater

i ultimately did not walk out because then i couldn't give the film a fair and complete review

[paper hatch]

I actually think and I might get some heat for this but this live action version is slightly better than the animated one..

[wary wasp]

you won't get heat for it. lots of people agree with you. i just very, very, VERY strongly disagree

[coarse bridge]

Let's change the discourse a bit. *Why do you hate it? Concretely. I'm curious.

[paper hatch]

TLM animated movie just didn't do it for me, only watched it once long time back and that's it

[wary wasp]

It might help to read my review.
https://letterboxd.com/yalekolin/film/the-little-mermaid-2023/1/

[wary wasp]

i do love the animated film, so that's an obvious difference lmao

i do believe that someone who has never seen the original would be in a worse position to enjoy the remake than someone who has seen the original

but a lot of my hatred for this remake comes from my love of the original. to see such a bland remake just felt insulting to me.

[paper hatch]

Nah, I would disagree on that.. but it depends on the perspective.. for me, even if I hadn't seen the original, I still would have liked this movie

[paper hatch]

Exactly this.. and I get it, if TLM animated movie was one of your favorite animated movies then ya but for me the medium is totally different.. I don't even compare the two

[coarse bridge]

I've seen the original recently.

[wary wasp]

again, i think the validation for my argument comes from the moments that the remake takes from the original. they're kind of sped through, and they lack the emotional weight present in the original. the remake depends on the audience filling in the blanks for them to feel any emotion

[paper hatch]

Blanks like what ??

[wary wasp]

who in their right mind is going to remember javier bardem's borderline asleep read in that scene in ariel's grotto over kenneth mars' aggressive, powerful read in the original

[paper hatch]

Seriously, I had even forgotten most of the animated movie when I watched this.. the end of the movie with Kaiju Ursula shocked me as I didn't know it was also in original

[coarse bridge]

Just wondering. Apart from the fact that you feel very, very strongly that it is a bad movie, why are you still telling people that every second sentence?

[wary wasp]

i'm not merely repeating myself if that's what you think. i'm explaining myself. i think any claim needs support, so i'm doing just that

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/hallebailey/status/1663126726401196033

Halle (@HalleBailey)

he was such a baby!! i love him sm 🥹

Likes

1520

Retweets

102

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 10:14 AM

[paper hatch]

I don't think anybody here except Ben will give this movie 1 out of 10

[wary wasp]

maybe not, but that's what i got out of it. and that's okay

[coarse bridge]

Might find some 2's and 6's.

[paper hatch]

I think quite a few 6s for sure

[wary wasp]

it's perfectly okay for me to hate the film, just as it is okay for someone to love the film

[coarse bridge]

sure.

[paper hatch]

But you hate the film not on its own merit but because you absolutely loved the original animated movie and are comparing the two imo

[coarse bridge]

I just get in trouble usually for being so passionnate, just saying.

[paper hatch]

Which too is fine

[wary wasp]

i do hate the film on its own merit

[paper hatch]

If you say so

[wary wasp]

most of my review is concentred on the mistakes the film itself makes

[paper hatch]

I just feel totally opposite.. live action one actually improves upon the original on quite a few things

[wary wasp]

it doesn't really add anything, its looks quite dull, the story is diluted, the pacing is a total slog, the vfx are hideous, the acting isn't great

[paper hatch]

Nah

[wary wasp]

that's my opinion, at least

but it's great that you like it

as i said before, who am i to take that away from you?

[paper hatch]

It's fine

[wary wasp]

i mean, it is just an opinion

you don't have to agree with me

you're not even supposed to blindly agree with me

[paper hatch]

I agree

[wary wasp]

but, by that same token

i'm not obligated in any way to agree with you

[coarse bridge]

Some people might,tho. Since you're saying it sucks without saying "imo".

[wary wasp]

i mean, i think the fact that it's an opinion goes without saying unless i actually punctuate that i believe it to be objective fact

which i don't surmise my assessments of the film to be

[clear stone]

That’s what I gave it a 6

[coarse bridge]

Some people think all film appreciation is subjective tho. Why else do we have film rating sites?

[wary wasp]

It is.

All film appreciation is subjective.

That's exactly correct.

But it's exactly the fact that film appreciation is subjective that has allowed film to survive as an art form.

My opinion doesn't have to be your opinion, and your opinion doesn't have to be mine. That's what makes art last.

[coarse bridge]

Agreed.

[wary wasp]

I always detest people who try to apply objectivity to art.

Not only is such application a fool's errand because objectivity is completely alien to art, but it is honestly anti-art.

[coarse bridge]

"Its bad because most people say so!" Pff...

[wary wasp]

Exactly. Just because something is widely hated doesn't mean it sucks, and just because something is popular doesn't mean it's great.

[coarse bridge]

Yeah, some Assassin's creed games,man...

[wary wasp]

The most that's true is that a lot of people hate what is widely hated and that a lot of people like what is popular. That doesn't impart upon any piece of art any intrinsic or immutable qualities.

[wary wasp]

But, of course, in this polarizing age, many people can't seem to bear the thought that their opinions do not dictate reality.

This is what causes extreme detractors from the Little Mermaid remake to declare the film terrible without watching it, or attacking the film solely on the fact that Ariel is played by a Black person.

This is also what causes extreme supporters of the Little Mermaid remake to declare that the only reason anyone could dislike the film is because they harbor racial prejudices, completely disregarding totally legitimate reasons people have cited for disliking the film.

Both extreme sides share one huge thing in common: they both hold the same toxic mindset -- "If they don't agree with me, something is wrong with them!"

Neither side is helpful in the least in forming healthy discourse around a film -- or any piece of art, really.

[coarse bridge]

I used to be like that. Still working on it.

[wary wasp]

Nobody's perfect. Perfection is unattainable, and thus striving for perfection can only be destructive. Strive only to be better. That's something everyone should do.

[coarse bridge]

I really wanted a particular show to take off. I blamed other people for its downfall.

I thought i was right.

[wary wasp]

I mean, you were no more right than they were, but they were also no more right than you were.

The facts just stand that most people didn't like the show.

And, of course, showbiz is part business.

[coarse bridge]

I thought the hate was for the wrong reasons. It was an adaptation.

[wary wasp]

It was just their preference. But your preference wasn't wrong either.

This is where we really get to the core of art criticism.

[coarse bridge]

I suppose. Either way, us who loved that show wont be getting a second season. I really wanted one.

[wary wasp]

In art criticism, everyone is simultaneously right and wrong in total measure, and at the same time, they are in no way right or wrong.

In the quantum realm of art criticism, we can see that objectivity cannot exist here. The conditions are simply not right for atoms of objectivity to form.

Art criticism is a world of equal contradictions. Objectivity cannot exist amongst contradictions.

Objectivity requires the absence of contradiction.

Whereas art and art criticism are nothing but contradictions.

[coarse bridge]

You summed it up, man.

There's nothing right, there's nothing wrong. There's nothing left.

[wary wasp]

Now, many people might think, "How can art be meaningful if opinions are both infinitely meaningful and infinitely meaningless?"

But it is these exact contradictions from which art derives its value.

A piece of art does not survive upon any objective standard. A piece of art survives upon people continually coming back to it and discussing it.

Because no piece of art is without praise or without criticism, all art will always survive, even if that art in its physical or original form has been destroyed or lost. A perpetual lack of unanimity in terms of the quality of any given piece of art makes every piece of art ever made and yet to be made worthy of discussion.

[coarse bridge]

Makes alot of sense.

[leaden iron]

No, but you OBVIOUSLY cannot take other people’s opinions that are opposite to yours, since you absolutely cannot stop “expressing” how bad it is without having any sort of balanced opinions except to counter everything with “I don’t like it” coupled with negative descriptors. Sure your opinions are valid, but your method of delivery does not win and will not win anyone to your side. I am not an easy person to be actually annoyed, and you sir, annoys me. And THAT, is my OPINION.

[coarse bridge]

Uh oh. Gloves are off.

[wary wasp]

My opinions on that film aren't balanced because my experience wasn't balanced. I honestly found only maybe one thing positive in the film (Halle Bailey's singing), and I have stated that I do like her singing. I don't think it's knockout, but I do think it's decent singing.

I don't have anything against you or anyone who likes the film. But it does seem like you have something against me for disliking the film.

[coarse bridge]

Its just that you do it so often.

I think we get it by now.

[wary wasp]

If someone was to say they hated Eraserhead, I wouldn't expect their assessment to be balanced. Even though it's my favorite film of all time, I'm not going to say, "Say something nice about the film."

Hatred implies strong dislike, which necessarily indicates a lack of balance.

[leaden iron]

Yes, I have something against you, and that is my opinion that you spent last 3 days with nothing but vitriol, my opinion is that you have spent more than double anyone’s talk on it on your perspective, and it was my opinions that I tried to stop you from being LITERALLY speaking after EVERY comment, without fail. And so it is my OPINION that the problem lies with your maturity, not mine, good night.

[wary wasp]

I never brought maturity into this exchange. Your ad hominem attack doesn't strike me as a confident response.

I do believe I have been more cordial in expressing that I wholeheartedly support the opinions and experiences of those who like the film, and I do think I have been more reserved recently. But, by the same token, you can't expect me to stay completely silent. I was more active tonight when you were not present, but I became more reserved when more supporters arrived. You are not entitled to a monopoly over this conversation.

I think your assessment of the situation is unfair. But I can definitely see how passion for something you love (or hate) can cloud judgment. It happens to me as well, I'm not immune. Everyone should strive to be better -- everyone.

[leaden iron]

Did you even read my analysis of why people like and/or hate the film and why the opinions on it is polarized?

[wary wasp]

Yes, you think it's a "death by a thousand cuts" thing. To an extent, I actually agree with your analysis. Although I do think there are more macro things that people can find wrong.

[leaden iron]

And people LOVE to bring ad hominem to the conversation, isn’t it?

[wary wasp]

Calling me immature without provocation is ad hominem. It is the definition.

[leaden iron]

Than say THAT, not how at every turn, that the film is apparently shittier than shit.

[leaden iron]

Just go count the number of comments you’ve made in the last 3 days, and tell me that your not obsessed with telling people how bad it is.

[wary wasp]

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. I have never said it's the worst film ever made -- I have seen far worse films. But I was too vocal the first day and I acknowledge that. I have put my feet on the brakes since, though, I think.

[wary wasp]

And this excuses your unprovoked and uncalled for attack how?

And, in any event, does it really make anything better? Does it enhance the discussion?

[leaden iron]

I’ve made EVERY effort to bridge the gap in communication between the two sides, and point out that it was not your opinion of the film that bothers me, but the method of the delivery that does. You, on the other hand, did not.

[wary wasp]

Again, I have been less vocal since that first day. I have a feeling we're going in circles.

[leaden iron]

Precisely. You have not brought anything new to the table in the last 3 days. And I will no longer dignify you with any more response.

[coarse bridge]

🍿

[wary wasp]

I feel like I have explained myself well, and I have been trying to be more courteous to people who like the film. You can see that for yourself. Even though you are insulting me without any reason or provocation, I will still be courteous to you. If you wish to burn that bridge, though, I cannot stop you.

If you decide you would like to talk further, though, my mentions in this server and my DMs will be open.

[alpine kite]

Ben Ben Ben

Oh ben

[wary wasp]

i don't even know what happened

just showed up guns blazing

lmao

[alpine kite]

There’s other channels ya could chat in man. Don’t need to be a negative kiddo

[wary wasp]

fair enough, that's what i've mostly been doing

but i did see the channel empty and without activity

although i have been trying to balance my tone with support for those who like the film

but i'll be happy to leave this channel be if you want it to be reserved for people who enjoy the film

i'd understand completely and be okay with it

[alpine kite]

I don’t want you to leave. I just want you to stop being so negative, its making people uncomfortable to start a conversation here. That’s me being honest from the messages I have received from folks.

[wary wasp]

I mean, I did hate the film, and I can't lie about my thoughts on the film. What would you suggest I do? I'm open to suggestions.

[alpine kite]

I say, just say you didn’t like it without going into further detail UNLESS someone has the same opinion, or curious on your viewpoint.

[wary wasp]

Hmmm. Sounds reasonable.

I'll try doing that from now on.

[simple sphinx]

What did I just read

[wary wasp]

A deep analysis of the nature of art, ad hominem attacks, and a productive conversation.

Otherwise known as: a typical day on the internet.

[simple sphinx]

So people overreacting over something stupid basically

[wary wasp]

Yeah essentially

[simple sphinx]

How was Mcarthy as Ursula I heard she was the best part

[wary wasp]

I didn't like her performance.

[simple sphinx]

Did she looks like her in the original

[wary wasp]

I guess she kind of looks like the original Ursula, but I don't think she quite matches the spirit.

[simple sphinx]

How was Halle Bailey I heard she was a great singer

[wary wasp]

I liked her singing, but I think her performance was lackluster. Not her fault, though. I think it's pretty much entirely a direction problem because I could tell Halle was trying.

[simple sphinx]

I heard that Awkafina has a rap song

[wary wasp]

Yes. It's painful. Lmao.

[simple sphinx]

I also heard that lol

[coarse bridge]

Has good double time flow at the end.

[earnest pelican]

I thought Halle carried the damn movie lol

I liked all the performances probably

Maybe a little lower on Javier’s

[celest cloud]

https://twitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1663212164390297603?t=fF2ojdAKrXm4_s7U4kYowQ&s=19

The Hollywood Handle (@hollywoodhandle)

‘THE LITTLE MERMAID’ crossed $200M at the worldwide box office.

Read our review: https://t.co/FIqVQD6krT

Likes

578

Retweets

105

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 3:54 PM

Pretty good to see it make decent coin so far

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1663234027782918145

The Hollywood Handle (@hollywoodhandle)

Box office analysts point out that online campaigns against #Ariel being played by a black actress are impacting #TheLittleMermaid box office in Asia and other international markets.

Read our review: https://t.co/FIqVQD6krT

(Via: https://t.co/UjX6CbQWdL)

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 5:21 PM

[exotic sapphire]

There's a lot of supposed heavy hitters the next coming weeks so who knows how those will impact this

[coarse bridge]

Well, there it is. Some people will always be assholes.

[dusky scarab]

its fucked up

that people still

think like that

[alpine kite]

Woke woke woke

[celest cloud]

Reminds me of the 2016 Ghostbusters reboot fiasco when people harassed one of the actresses off Twitter. Honestly such weird and terrible behavior.

Thankfully things are not reaching that extreme in this particular instance but the fact there's a precedent for that makes me question the sanity of internet users.

[coarse bridge]

When nobody knows who you are, you can hate freely. Some people take that to heart.

[leaden iron]

Disney Attachment is pretty high in Japan so I dont think they care… and they are probably the largest Disney market anyways. Used to be China, but Disney had a sort of fallen out with the party.

[coarse bridge]

China cant fathom guys loving other guys and so on.

[leaden iron]

But that film isn’t filled with strange decisions, it’s filled with WRONG decisions lol

[leaden iron]

No, it was a few things to do with Ten Ring bus driver number, Simu Liu’s autobiography that said china sucks, and a news stand on Dr Strange MOM that showed a FallonGong publication that’s anti-CCP.

[coarse bridge]

Heavy stuff. Wasnt aware, thanks.

[leaden iron]

Yeah, way beyond Disney stuff

[paper hatch]

https://twitter.com/TheDirect/status/1663295946128490498?t=-WLfHd1H_iWoGfNpI3qm2g&s=19

The Direct (@TheDirect)

IMDB has posting a warning on #TheLittleMermaid ratings page after the movie got review-bombed by users:

“To preserve the reliability of our rating system, an alternate weighting calculation has been applied..” Full details: https://t.co/lT3Ag0zNLI

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 9:27 PM

So stupid these people

[dusky scarab]

who are you calling stupid im confused lol

[paper hatch]

People who are review bombing of course while not watching the movie

[dusky scarab]

ahhh yeah

i hate review bombing lol

like, if you didnt watch it dont leave a damn rating lol

[paper hatch]

Exactly

[dusky scarab]

honestly might see this tomorrow, im looking forward to it

Even for a film i hate id never advocate for review bombs lol

[exotic sapphire]

Jeez it's that bad?

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/petersciretta/status/1663277809069068288

Peter Sciretta (@PeterSciretta)

Here’s something that annoyed me about the new live action Little Mermaid:

So they sing Under The Sea (as they should) but the undersea creatures are not playing the music despite the lyrics of the song remaining unchanged.

Likes

327

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 8:15 PM

[simple sphinx]

I’m gonna try it out ima rate the movie and see if I get that message

I didn’t get the message

[leaden iron]

that’s what I said too lol… change the lyrics or change the visuals dammit! Again, strange choices

[celest cloud]

My only legitimate complaint is that they didn't use the suburban legends cover of under the sea
https://open.spotify.com/track/2lyXxEbikvcTzMFBfbqSMT?si=OFF3SY0gQ-WjS9_MvQNcjw

I really prefer the ska cover over the original song. Not to diss either Samuel E Wright nor David Deegs but the suburban legends cover has more swag to it. This is literally like that "Dan, the cooler Dan" meme.

I think the OST having a more ska-punk inspired vibe would've elevated the experience and it would have helped make it more distinct from the cartoon

[tawdry sun]

I’m sorry rapping?

[tawdry sun]

I’m sorry how is that fair?

Like no offense but, what’s the point of having channel if we can’t voice an opinion?

[coarse bridge]

Its doing it one hundred times in 3 days that seems to be the problem, to me. Of course i could be wrong.

[tawdry sun]

Oh

[tawdry sun]

Now Pawsin...

How do we know they didn't see it?

[paper hatch]

Well, many of them have been hating the movie from the start saying it's horrible and stuff, hence the idea that they are spending money to watch it now is I don't think realistic.. I'm not talking about everyone of course and there will be exceptions..

[leaden iron]

If the people who are review bombing TLM ALL went to see it, it’ll easily add 2-3mil to the box office lol

Which only really matters in opening weekends, for the whole run it would be somewhat insignificant

[coarse bridge]

Way some people are talking about this movie, its like its the second coming of Exorcist II.

[short mantle]

So like when finding someone to keep an eye on his daughter, why did Triton choose her music teacher for the job

[coarse bridge]

Its not just the music teacher, Triton regards Horatio Thelonious Ignacious Crustaceous Sebastian as his right hand man and foremost advisor, always next to the throne.

[leaden iron]

Sebastian isn’t the music teacher ^^^^

He’s the MAJORDOMO

[coarse bridge]

Huh. Didnt know he swung that way...

[leaden iron]

Tho to be fair, a bigger percentage of them don’t have families or remain unmarried than the average population… so you might still be right

[clear stone]

Someone needs to tell Halle this movie did not need this training

[paper hatch]

What was this for ?

[clear stone]

Look at the channel we’re in

[simple sphinx]

Seeing this today

[leaden iron]

Gots to hold onto the giant face capture rig I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1663928495712477184

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm)

‘THE LITTLE MERMAID’ has passed $200M worldwide.

Read our review: https://t.co/PZEXT5wLtP

Twitter · May 31, 2023, 3:20 PM

[exotic sapphire]

I thought it did days ago

[leaden iron]

Not yet, it needed yesterday’s numbers to reach 200mil, and that won’t be finalized until sometime around noon

[clear stone]

https://twitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1663991087663292416

The Hollywood Handle (@hollywoodhandle)

‘THE LITTLE MERMAID’ only earned $2.5M during its opening weekend at China.

In comparison, at China, ‘ALADDIN’ opened with $18.8M, ‘THE JUNGLE BOOK’ with $46.5M and ‘BEAUTY AND THE BEAST’ with $45.2M.

Read our review: https://t.co/FIqVQD6krT

Twitter · May 31, 2023, 7:29 PM

[tawdry sun]

People are getting tired of these remakes man.

Can’t blame em

[clear stone]

We could go with that

And just racism

[tawdry sun]

So people can’t just not like the 100th Disney live action remake

It must be racism

[clear stone]

No, I read the article instead of making baseline assumptions like you did

[tawdry sun]

Cause it’s not like this is so unheard of, people being tired of these famine remakes

[clear stone]

The Global Times, a state-controlled tabloid paper, wrote: "Many Chinese netizens said that like ‘Snow White' the image of the mermaid princess in Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tales has long been rooted in their hearts and it takes a leap of imagination to accept the new cast."

[tawdry sun]

Idc what Hollywood handle has to say.

[clear stone]

That’s not from Hollywood Handle

Did you read it

[tawdry sun]

That’s who posted the link bruh

“Read Our Review”

Secondly, I’m gonna say it again

I don’t care what they got to say

[clear stone]

That’s right but I quoted a source from Variety

[tawdry sun]

People are tired

Of this remakes

[clear stone]

Stop

I just gave you a quote where they admitted racism fuelled this decision

[tawdry sun]

WDYM stop?

[clear stone]

And you’re now actively fighting it

[leaden iron]

Actually, Disney had a fallen out with the Chinese government, it’s a miracle it even got played there

[clear stone]

It doesn’t get more explicit than saying we wanted a white main character

[dusky scarab]

Also can i point out Mando said "AND" not "OR"
In other words they didn't say your initial statement was wrong lol, just added an additional, very true factor to the picture

[clear stone]

Some people will make leaps to defend racism

[tawdry sun]

Not defending racism but ok

[clear stone]

You’re literally creating an argument saying that racism isn’t an important factor

[tawdry sun]

It’s not

[clear stone]

When I’ve given you a quote of them admitting that

[tawdry sun]

From a single article

[clear stone]

From a newspaper in China??

You don’t even know what you’re arguing

Why are you denying racism

[tawdry sun]

My argument

Is that

People are tired

Of these remakes

[clear stone]

And I’m telling you objectively many people aren’t seeing it because they’re racist

I’ve even given you a quote to back that up

It’s not an either/or

They are definitely both factors

But to deny that racism is at play here is insane

[tawdry sun]

Ok fair enough

FAIR ENOUGH they’re both factors

HOWEVER

I think things would go smoother if we just made original black characters

[clear stone]

That’s not the conversation we’re having

[tawdry sun]

So we don’t got all this resistance

[clear stone]

You are literally defending racism right now

Stop digging yourself a hole

[tawdry sun]

Lies

[clear stone]

‘Well if we had original black characters this wouldn’t be a problem’

[tawdry sun]

How’s that’s racist?

[clear stone]

You’re villain-ising the casting choice of a black actress

[tawdry sun]

“I want original black characters”

[clear stone]

That’s not what you said

[tawdry sun]

No, I’m villianising the idea of tokenism

[clear stone]

Except it isn’t a token thing

[tawdry sun]

YES IT IS

[clear stone]

You’ve just decided that it is to defend your point now that I’ve called you racist

[tawdry sun]

Not racist but ok

[clear stone]

Just because the actress is black that doesn’t make it a token casting

In this conversation you’ve defended racists and made your own racist viewpoints

[tawdry sun]

So you’re telling me, the promotion wasn’t leaning in on the idea of her being black as a selling point?

[clear stone]

No?

[tawdry sun]

Ok so you admit they’re is a level of Tokeism going on then right?

[leaden iron]

Even Mario only did like 24mil TOTAL in China, TLM doing 2.5mil on opening has nothing to do with racism or anything like that, it’s just the increasingly over-politicalization of the state government running anti-American campaigns that’s the real issue.

[tawdry sun]

I agree

Now ILL SAY THIS

There could be

[clear stone]

No

[tawdry sun]

Well ok let me rephrase

There is

Racism going around

And that’s wrong and bad

[clear stone]

Really brave of you to say that

Thank you

[tawdry sun]

K

However I do think that the race politics of the film’s discourse is being used to deflect criticism

[clear stone]

It’s like this whole conversation is going right through you

I have stated numerous times that people are indeed tired of the reboots and that plays a part

I haven’t once spoken on the quality of the film or how that relates to racism at all

What I have done is found a quote in a CHINESE newspaper where they themselves have said they won’t see it because it has a black lead

And you still want to deny that despite it being right in front of your face

[tawdry sun]

You just responded to my comment implying that what I said about remake fatigue wasn’t true

Unless you weren’t being sarcastic

[clear stone]

Well I didnt

[tawdry sun]

Because when you said “we can go with that” it implied to me

You were being sarcastic

But maybe I was wrong.

[clear stone]

Oh the very first message was half sarcastic yes

Because I was bringing in the other issue

The one that I have actually read and researched so I’m not arguing a baseless claim

[tawdry sun]

Baseless claim?

You think remake fatigue is a baseless claim?

[clear stone]

No

But I’ve got evidence to back mine up

[tawdry sun]

So do I

[clear stone]

You keep deflecting this back to fatigue when that’s not the conversation we’re mainly having

[tawdry sun]

But I don’t wanna soma

[clear stone]

Honestly I don’t care about fatigue

[tawdry sun]

Ok so, you wanna talk about the racism right?

[clear stone]

Some people aren’t seeing it because they’re racist and that’s that

Not well fatigue is a factor

Not well I don’t think racism is that bad over there

It’s as simple as that

[tawdry sun]

Ok Mando, why do you think the racist boycott this film, but not something like black Panther that’s even more Afrocentric.

Genuinely asking

Like genuine question

[clear stone]

Because the character was white in the original film

[tawdry sun]

Ok

I mean

[clear stone]

But also this isn’t a comparison

[tawdry sun]

Wdym it’s not

[clear stone]

Well they’re obviously not racist because they didn’t do it for this

Even if you’re not doing it intentionally you’ve subtly defended covert racism so many times

[tawdry sun]

Ok mando

Question

Are you white just asking

[clear stone]

Another question okay

Yes

[tawdry sun]

ok

Just curious

[clear stone]

What does this mean for your argument

[tawdry sun]

Just a question.

[clear stone]

Because

[tawdry sun]

What color do you think i am?

[clear stone]

I have no idea and I don’t care

[tawdry sun]

K

[tawdry sun]

OH NO

No defending racism mando

[leaden iron]

I’m merely trying to stop the present conversation, it’s going nowhere.

[tawdry sun]

And honestly I don’t think you know what that means tbh

[clear stone]

You’re so dense it’s crazy

All of this because I said racism in a factor in the bad performance

[tawdry sun]

That doesn’t mean much coming from you

[clear stone]

And all you’ve done is deflect and argue it

[tawdry sun]

Tbh

[leaden iron]

Since the only person who probably can read Chinese in here is me lol

[clear stone]

My point is literally that racism exists

And you have been arguing that

[tawdry sun]

TBH

[feral steppe]

i might be late to the party but i have waited my whole life for this film and i really enjoyed it

[tawdry sun]

When did I disagree with that?

[clear stone]

The whole conversation you’ve been downplaying it

[tawdry sun]

I said it was happening

All I asked was why was it happening in one place and not the other

[clear stone]

Where did you say that

[leaden iron]

Can we get back to the TLM party and not talk about the whatever racism that may or may not exist in China?

[clear stone]

All you did was say she was a token cast

[tawdry sun]

Not true man

[clear stone]

It’s crazy to me that you’re just so openly defending racism

[tawdry sun]

Mando you say that shit again and I’m gonna go off

[clear stone]

Anyone with two eyes that can read knows it I don’t have to say it

Your statements have been insane

Need I remind you all this because you got angry about racism being a factor in box office

[tawdry sun]

You’re the only one here who thinks so

[clear stone]

Because I’m the only one here

And I’m the one calling you out

[tawdry sun]

Cyber here

[dusky scarab]

Get a DM you two

[tawdry sun]

Fym

[clear stone]

Well he won’t say anything because you’re arguing against the movie

[tawdry sun]

Nah we done

[tawdry sun]

OH

SO HE DOESNT COUNT

fuck outta here

[clear stone]

No he does count

[tawdry sun]

I’m done gj

Gn

NAHHHH

Gn we done

[clear stone]

Yeah you run away when you’re called out for being racist

Off to do it again tomorrow I’m sure

[tawdry sun]

Sure

[tawdry sun]

Not racist btw

[clear stone]

Saying I’m not racist doesn’t make you not racist after saying racist statements

[tawdry sun]

WOW guys

[clear stone]

Ah well if you said you’re not racist that excuses everything you’ve said

[tawdry sun]

A black person has an opinion

Holy shit

[clear stone]

Just completely irrelevant to the point isn’t it

[tawdry sun]

Fuck outta here

[clear stone]

Act like the victim because I’m not letting you get away with it

Well done you didn’t get called out by anyone else

[tawdry sun]

Ur white as snow, don’t care

Like I have an opinion, cry about it

[clear stone]

That’s just not at all relevant is it

Never once did I even say the words your and opinion together so don’t try that

[tawdry sun]

Yeah you didn

[clear stone]

That’s right I didn’t because it wasn’t about opinion

You were defending racism it’s not complex

[tawdry sun]

K

Wasn’t defending it was just questioning the articles validity

But alright let’s go with that

[clear stone]

Never once did you do that

You’re changing the narrative now

[leaden iron]

You guys want to move this conversation somewhere else?

[clear stone]

You were talking about tokenism and how the novelty has worn off

[tawdry sun]

I’m

[candid quest]

Mando, there's no point in arguing with Frame.

[clear stone]

Cybor I’m also disappointed in you for letting it just slide

If nobody says anything about it it carries on

[candid quest]

You two are both trying to reach the same conclusion but there's no reason why you both cannot be right.

You both want to be correct but it's very possible to be both correct in this era of polarization.

[clear stone]

Quite literally the point I’ve made the whole time

[tawdry sun]

THANK YOU

[leaden iron]

I’m not reading the conversation, all I see is a fight, that can happen somewhere else.

[candid quest]

Frame, do not thank me. You're also complicit.

If you're both correct, admit to such.

Bickering over it doesn't make anybody correct.

[clear stone]

Well it’s too late now he’s admitted that he’s racist it’s a bit of a hole he’s dug

[candid quest]

It's rather silly.

[tawdry sun]

Fair enough

Fine

You’re right mando, theres racism fhag needs to stop

[clear stone]

Insane that this even happened because you wanted to downplay and act like racism doesn’t exist

[candid quest]

Both of you have been involved in discussions like these before and it's resulted in nothing but just constant bickering and disruption.

[tawdry sun]

Never said that bud

[clear stone]

The conclusion being reached by you saying racism needs to stop proves just how stupid the whole situation is

[tawdry sun]

You got a problem with putting words in people’s months

[dusky sandal]

I thought no one cared about that movie

[candid quest]

Why not hash it out over DMs? If you think public perception will be on your side, you're mistaken. You're both rather silly

[tawdry sun]

Mouths

[tawdry sun]

Well we do nown

[candid quest]

Frame, you have an issue with wanting the last word in.

[leaden iron]

I thought the convo started with racism in CHINA, not about each other…

[dusky sandal]

nah I still don't care about the movie

[tawdry sun]

FINE

[clear stone]

I have genuinely taken every word directly from something you’ve written

[tawdry sun]

I’ll adopt

Stop

[leaden iron]

Hey bob

[dusky sandal]

hey

[tawdry sun]

I’m going to bed Gn

[candid quest]

Mando, if you accept Frame's point regarding nobody wants more remakes leave it at that.

[dusky sandal]

this movie blows, jesus christ

this channel too

when are you guys talking about the movie

[clear stone]

I accept that point the fact was that it wasn’t even what the conversation was

[candid quest]

Both can be correct at the same time - there's no need to go for gold in the 'I'm Right About A Disney Remake' Olympics

[clear stone]

It’s also not about gold

[leaden iron]

Heh, did you read my theory about “death by 1000 cuts”?

[clear stone]

If you want to weigh in I think it’s worth reading it from the start

[candid quest]

I've read it. 😎

[clear stone]

Because I literally said racism impacts the box office and he argued with it

[dusky sandal]

isn't that an episode of jessica jones

[clear stone]

Despite my every attempt to not make it an argument

[candid quest]

Well you both argued it

[leaden iron]

Heh

[candid quest]

when there's little argument to be made if you're both right

[dusky sandal]

I read everything and still hate the link dumps

[clear stone]

Eventually I did because he said crazy stuff like they’re using a black lead for marketing

[candid quest]

You know how volatile you both can get when there's a prize on the line

[clear stone]

That’s insane to say and get away with

[dusky sandal]

incredible

[candid quest]

And he can be correct - Disney engages in cheap activism for points

[leaden iron]

Basically, the film makes a lot of strange choices, if you’re not sensitive to them, the movie’s pretty good, if you are, then you’ll HATE the film.

[candid quest]

Nothing a corporation does for a community is from the heart - it's all processed through some marketing intern who feels they can squeeze a few extra bucks from the general audience.

[dusky sandal]

one could argue you've shut down everything they tried to say by just calling them a racist everytime

[clear stone]

If he had said it in the movies channel, he would’ve been banned

It’s happened before

But because it’s here it’s brushed aside

[candid quest]

Yes, Frame can be volatile - but you got a little hasty with him too.

[dusky sandal]

idk I'm in the movies channel pretty often

[clear stone]

Of course I did because he made insane statements

You said you read the conversation you’ve seen some of the stuff said

[candid quest]

But do you think you changed his mind?

[dusky sandal]

I've seen it all even

[candid quest]

Do you think by engaging in this public debacle you changed some minds - including his?

[clear stone]

I don’t know but at that point it’s not about changing someone mind it’s about someone being openly racist in a server

[candid quest]

Then why not contact Modmail?

[clear stone]

Well

Bob

[dusky sandal]

sup

[clear stone]

You’ll find that I did

I left it to contact modmail until he tagged me again with something

Asking me what colour my skin is or something

[candid quest]

A Black individual is perfectly within their right to find Black casting in a major Hollywood film from a studio that's engaged in less-than-pleasant practices to squeeze money from a community shaky. It doesn't negate your point regarding the box office.

[clear stone]

But that’s not what he said

That’s what you’re saying yes but that’s not what was mentioned

[candid quest]

He certainly ain't a fan of tokenism haha

[clear stone]

The choice of words is very telling of one’s stance

[tawdry sun]

We moving on or what?

[clear stone]

I moved on from arguing with you a while ago

[tawdry sun]

You still talking about it

[clear stone]

You’re trying to start something

[tawdry sun]

So I’m just making sure

Buddy

Don’t act like I didn’t see you

Talking about it

Just now

[candid quest]

Here

I have something.

[clear stone]

Which wasn’t an argument,,

[candid quest]

Let's all take a breather.

[dusky sandal]

finna mute both of you if this doesn't stop

[candid quest]

Let's take a step back from this joint and let the dust settle.

[dusky sandal]

talk about the movie

your choice

[candid quest]

You two are volatile and clearly got the cylinders firing.

[tawdry sun]

I can move on

[candid quest]

Frame, I thought you went to bed

[tawdry sun]

I could here the pings from my bed

[candid quest]

Set your phone to do not disturb.

[tawdry sun]

Ight

GN

fr this time

[ornate hearth]

i always keep phone on mute

[candid quest]

Hit the hay. Have a glass of water before bed to help the blood pressure.

[tawdry sun]

Eh my friends get made when I do it

I miss calls

[candid quest]

Then they have an addiction

[tawdry sun]

Anyway Gn

[candid quest]

and they need to value your time and sleep better.

[simple sphinx]

I thought u were going to bed

[ornate hearth]

no ebic i thought you were going to bed

[candid quest]

The Doctor prescribes you a good night

[ornate hearth]

doctor philcp

[simple sphinx]

It’s only 4:30 pm

[short mantle]

Can't wait to see it this weekend

[coarse bridge]

Dunno if i'll see it. I have things to get.

It'll show up on the Plus eventually anyways.

[candid quest]

Damn, Morph. Not even gonna catch the film you've been championing for months in theaters?