📺The Last of Us (2023)

[digital mauve]

I hope they can write S2 better

I don’t just want a revenge plot

Give me more time with Ellie and Joel

[tame crag]

it will indeed be a revenge plot, everything depends on HOW they will play the revenge plot

[digital mauve]

Maybe about how they survive for a few years

[tame crag]

i'll be a good adult woman and, strong of my previous experiences, stand very far from season 2

until enough hype and hate has softened lol

[digital mauve]

I’ve not played the 2nd game but I know what happens

[tame crag]

you should def play the game, it's a very good game with a weak plot

but the game does everything it can to make you live the plot

[digital mauve]

Weak plot is an instant turn off for me in a game

[tame crag]

well it's weak if you don't get attached to it

but the game really tries out everything

and it has to be praised for that, i almost forgot to see the nonsense of it all

[digital mauve]

Yeah I guess

[tight moat]

Tbf they have the benefit of hindsight now, both for TLOU2 and the first season of the show

They know what was poorly received and can alter it accordingly (besides THAT big thing probably)

Also I can bet rn tha S2 and 3 will have a lot more infected than the first

[tame crag]

i'll repeat that without that bad thing the plot has exactly 0 sense and might aswell call it "The last of us part II: what if"

but yes, technically they can alter stuff poorly received, although it's a lot if you account for the lack of structure in the whole plot

[sick pawn]

Hope they change nothing because TLOU 2 kino 😎

[oblique ferry]

Finished ep9 and wow what a great ep

Overall, a really good show with some great performances

[slow nova]

I'm not the biggest fan of the second game but I wouldn't exactly say that it makes ZERO sense. The story kinda makes sense but the realism aspect is like a switch that a 5 year old is playing with and flicking it on and off for fun.

[tame crag]

lol the switch thing is like the best concept i've ever seen of explaining it

although that instead of a 5 years old i would write in "lazy writers"

"bro this thing makes exactly zero sense"
"who cares? You need SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF"

shocked faces

[tame crag]

can't wait for them to insert aliens just to trigger people

fucking aliens shooting beam lasers on the earth cleansing the world from infected and humans

leaving only animals

[sick pawn]

based

whatever makes gamers mad, i'm in

[tame crag]

oh and the aliens are genderfluid pansexual beings

having the most dramatic queer plots

with the captain being a fan of Twilight

best plot ever

[tight moat]

Yeah thats what I mean, thats the only thing they cant really change

[winged gorge]

This is how you make an adapation

Of a video game.

Netflix needs to take fucking notes right now.

[tame crag]

the only notes netflix takes it's about how much revenue they drop if they do that fishy thing in that particular way

[winged gorge]

???

Nah after the Resident Evil show.

They need to take notes.

[tame crag]

they care exactly 0 about quality nowadays, it's just about shoveling the highest number of titles in their catalogue so that you subscribe

and don't share your password

[winged gorge]

Oh my bad, I see what you're saying now.

Yeah lol, it's sad to see. They we're the first to start this shit and now there getting left behind.

[tame crag]

left behind, ahah, i got the pun (no pun i know, but it was funny)

yeah well i mean, i'm not even super sure they started this

i'm pretty sure there was another service before netflix

like a somewhat famous one

[winged gorge]

True.

[tame crag]

they just happened to resist amidst the chaos

and are now suiciding 'cause of... greediness probs, or just being incompetent

(or both)

oh, hulu

the first one was hulu

[winged gorge]

Oh really?

I didn't know that.

I remeber when I was small I used to see there logo on those like, Rent a movie vending machines.

[tame crag]

yeh i remember hulu being unavailable here in italy for years

much as netflix

[winged gorge]

Oh you're from Italy!

That's cool.

[tame crag]

yeh

[winged gorge]

I'm visiting this summer.

How's the weahter there?

weather*

[tame crag]

i think (not sure) that apple tv and netflix were the first to expand into europe

[winged gorge]

Yeah I think that's accurate.

[tame crag]

this summer it will be sadly hot, winter had very little snow and rain due to climate crisis

for now it's starting to become spring and it's the best weather all around i'll have for the next 12 months i'm sure lol

where you going? I hope it's not venice

in summer that will feel like being in a boiling pot with a lot of mosquitos inside

[slow nova]

"MAH MUSHROOM ZOMBIE GAME"

[winged gorge]

Like how hot?

[zenith lichen]

The flashbacks wouldn't work if they weren't where they were at the start of the story

[tame crag]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-tf2memes-tf2heavy-heavy-weapons-guy-meet-the-heavy-gif-24983567

[tame crag]

eh, guess some deity has to spare us from very hot, last time it rained this little eventually the rain happened near summer and yet we had 40°C in many cities

if you're going in south italy i hope you're gonna get yourself wet like 23 hours out of 24

[winged gorge]

.104 DEGRESS?!

[digital mauve]

i very much disagree

[winged gorge]

JESUS CHRIST

[digital mauve]

104 is nothing

[tame crag]

i lived 10 years between palermo and catania, in sicily, and there were years with 44°C

and it was a tad bit too much lol

[zenith lichen]

Can we talk part 2 spoilers here if they are marked as spoilers?

[tame crag]

well it says "the last of us 2023" so technically yes

perhaps mark them as spoilers tho?

[zenith lichen]

Alright 👍

[winged gorge]

So who here has played the game?

[tame crag]

describe "played"

[winged gorge]

Like, you've held a control, put the game in the consol.

Or at least watch a let's play.

[tame crag]

well i did that for almost 3 hours and then watched the rest as let's play/cutscenes only

[winged gorge]

Well, actually wait.

Because a game has that element of 2nd person experience.

[tame crag]

yeah and tlou2 has this stuff pretty significantly

[winged gorge]

Alot of the like themes of the human conditon are expressed in the game plays rogue feel.

Like the way the game portrays murder is spin chilling, People cry and beg for mercy.

Theres a heavy weight that comes with it.

I think that was well converted here.

But in a way that was effeitive for a show.

[tame crag]

tbh with you at some point in tlou1 i was gun blazing 'cause the game was quite boring as a game

i was playing only for the scenes lol

[winged gorge]

I disagree.

I think part of the experience is the feeling you get when Joel breaks someones neck.

[tame crag]

oh well yes ofc, it's just that the filler parts were too many and it felt like i was single handedly killing the little humanity left on the planet lol

perhaps aside the first hours of tlou1 the only moment i had true fun in playing it was during ellie's turn of killing peeps

[winged gorge]

The way he fights, almost like someone that is desperate trying to live, not an invincible gun slinging bad ass.

[winged gorge]

Yeah same.

[tame crag]

throwing bricks against people was very satisfying

the worst part may be the mall part in the dlc

i was like "omg i've had enough" and switched to a let's play lol

infact anytime someone says "i should play tlou1 to enjoy the full experience" i just suggest a no commentary playthrough or the "movie" version on youtube

[winged gorge]

I disagree

I think part of it, is being the on holding the control, crawling throught the grass, aiming down the sights of the gun.

It gives you a certain type of emersion not seen in film.

It

[tame crag]

yeeeeeah... but it also sucks a bit, especially the raft parts are such a boring thing to do

that i can't even BEGIN to think who thought it was a good idea

[winged gorge]

Eh, to each their own.

[zenith lichen]

Part 2 spoilers ||The flashbacks are throughout Ellies journey because they are used to further explain why she's going on this path of revenge. Yes she's going after Abby because she killed Joel but it goes much deeper than that. The flashbacks reveal that she never really forgave Joel for both lying to her from the fireflies and also saving her from the fireflies. She tells Joel she would have wanted to die if it meant there'd be a cure. Their relationship is damaged and Abby took away her ability to fully heal it. I think that works much better than just starting off with flashbacks. Seeing Ellie and Joel be much more distant at the start is much more effective than having all answers immediately given to us. The final flashback with Joel shows they were finally able to start mending their relationship and that is cut short by his death. It explains why she didn't kill Abby. It wouldn't change anything. It won't bring him back. But she finally has a chance to forgive someone. ||

[zenith lichen]

Even if you dislike the story I don't know how you'd disagree that this was the best way tell the story

In regards to the flashbacks

[potent nacelle]

This comment definitely contains information that can be seen as spoilery, but it's not outright one so be warned. I'll mark the ones that are blatant.

or... they could've given the flashbacks as a playable part of the game right after (REDACTED) happens. It then would fuel the players' urge to now REALLY go for the route Ellie went beyond the surface level empathy we feel for this game, which comes directly from the very earned sympathy of the first. Neil wanted the ending to be miserable— sure, whatever. But he also wanted a very on-the-nose message other media has passed on with more elegance than ''flashback middle fight'' like it's Deus Ex Machina. There's a reason why stories with this dominant theme end the way they end, all the way back to Shakespeare. It's because you can't have it be miserable AND hopeful messaging at the same time. Doing so makes up for a story that can only end unsatisfyingly. The message comes from seeing bad things happen, and feeling the carthasis released by experiencing the consequences of those actions. What brought you here is exactly what you want to avoid, because this is how it ends. then the media shows you how it ends

||and yet, we still experience the misery, because we are playing as Ellie, and Ellie ain't got nothing left. The game stops you from going there, and seeing what happens when you push for those dark decisions. At the same time that it offers you the experience all the same, but now we have a forcefully fed flashback that tries to give reasoning for that lack of choice.||

||the game could simply have shown us that Ellie never forgave Joel, and then he was taken from her. She should've forgiven him, and now she will live it to regret it. That's one message. And then she should've gone for revenge, and lost everything else she had in her life. That's another message. You see, what Neil wants to say can be said still, he just didn't say it right, not in the right order, not with the right mindset. And it's a wonder he failed like that, when stories of this nature have been told again and again and again.||

||at the end of the day, TLOU2 doesn't have enough courage to let its main character do the wrong decisions, and let the audience judge her for it. It didn't have the courage to show us Ellie would never forgive, and that by seeing how she ends up alone, we should learn to do otherwise. For a game that tries to preach for the exercising of empathy and believing in the good we have inside ourselves, it didn't believe its own audience to have it.||

[zenith lichen]

|| If Ellie realizes she finally has a chance to forgive someone before she even goes after Abby then the whole story makes no sense? I might be misunderstanding what you're trying to say.||

[zenith lichen]

||She does do the wrong thing. The whole game she is doing the wrong thing. The game is quite in your face about how much violence and destruction she is causing. And she does lose everything. She comes back to the farm and Dina is gone. Tommy is dead. She's alone.||

And the game puts a LOT of faith in the audience. Too much even lol. You see how often people try to describe the game as just a "revenge bad" story

[potent nacelle]

||the point would be being blinded by your rage, now that is poetic. To do something wrong because you weren't allowed to do something right. How true to life is that. The game could've given us the hints that this relationship can turn around, if Ellie pushes herself a little more towards forgiveness. For once the flashbacks shouldn't give that blatant answer, human beings are smart enough to pick up clues. To push a good message doesn't mean to push your character to make a good choice. And Ellie ultimately makes one at the end, forcefully via flashback and cutscenes not allowing you to kill Abby. Yet her good choice at this point breeds nothing but dissatisfaction, to the viewer, and to herself. Kill or not kill, she's lost everything. This is a revenge story, it's the dominant theme (other people in this channel have claimed I don't have enough intelligence to understand there are sub-themes underneath it, but I do.) stories of this nature have had a history of being about the first-hand experience of seeing cruel consequences to cruel actions. The good message comes from seeing what happens if you don't make the right choices, the ending at its core is self-defeating. It's like Neil knew exactly how revenge stories are supposed to end, but he ducked at the last moment to make sure the message came across. Again, demonstrating the zero trust he had in his audience having a sense of moral inside them. To know what is the right thing, and see the character do the wrong thing, is the whole thesis of revenge stories. Of stories about wrong-doings. TLOU2 isn't one, not entirely. It plays itself like one, but at the end it ultimately undermines its own message by taking away the audience's contribution to it. Force feeding one interpretation like you don't have what it takes to conclude that where Ellie ends at isn't a good place.||

||we know she should forgive, but to force us to forgive by forcing her to forgive, that isn't how truly great stories are made. That isn't how the greatest pieces of literature on revenge have had it, they wouldn't be the greatest if they did. Hard stories end up in a harsh way, because they are stories of bad people. And we know that, that's how we learn how to not be them. That is how stories for grownups are told, with a lot of understanding and respect for them and their own life experiences learning what isn't and what is the terrible choice to make.||

I'm not the first and I won't be the last to repeat, that this story is repetitive. People have consumed stories with these exact concepts for ages, misunderstanding is not the problem.

[zenith lichen]

||She is blinding by rage. The whole game she is. Up until the very end. I don't understand what you mean by unsatisfaction. She finally realized what she was doing wasn't going to change anything. She never shows regret from not killing Abby. Boiling the whole game down to "revenge bad" isn't a good thing even if it is the dominant theme. Sub themes are just as important as the main theme. You wouldn't have this story without the sub themes. And like I said, she does make the wrong choices. She makes many wrong choices. We see the consequences of those wrong choices. If she chooses not to forgive then we have no character arc. The Ellie we have at the start of the game would be the same Ellie at the end. There would be no growth and would make her character so much more uninteresting. I don't understand why you think a character making only bad decisions and never growing is the "grownup" way of telling stories?||

[oblique ferry]

Wall of texts

So many spoilers for TLOU 2, one click and everything is known lol

Assuming you guys are spoiling

[zenith lichen]

Yes

I said above it was spoilers for part 2 but probably should have said it again since it's a little bit up mb

[oblique ferry]

Nah it fine

[tame crag]

Actually they spoil less than what you think lol

Anyhow, the discussion on tlou2 is already going on, can't wait to see homophobes and out of place peeps join it 😂

[potent nacelle]

||I don't understand, how you don't understand that great stories are not told only in the basis of forward character growth. Firstly you can go around the internet all day long to see the feedback of dissatisfaction the game gives the player. I'll link one right below. Secondly, great stories about revenge are borne from the anguish you suffer from seeing a character go for wrong choices all the way through. It's a negative character arc. The term ''show don't tell'' isn't about showing, not telling. It's about letting the viewer come in and give meaning to what you show them. By making the last choice be the only right one Ellie makes, even when it doesn't make any sense because she had that memory this entire ''adventure''— memories aren't suddenly unlocked in your mind at a crucial moment— you are just shoving into your viewer's mouth what is the interpretation of your work. And you are objectively undermining your negative character arc. This story was not built around Ellie slowly growing out of her pain, it's a story built around hunting someone down, and leaving a body count behind you. Every step of the way Ellie takes the wrong decisions, you yourself admitted it. This is objectively following the structure of a negative arc up until the ending. Which again preaches the audience to no end. And to no greater effect, either.||

[potent nacelle]

perhaps making the discussion long-winded will shush them away

[potent nacelle]

disclaimer, all of it is spoilers spoilers spoilers

do not click, spoilers.

[zenith lichen]

||I said the character growth is what makes her character interesting? I never said you can't have a character only have forward character growth. She would have no character growth if she every choice she made was out of rage and led to violence and hurt everyone around her. I misunderstood what you said about unsatisfaction earlier. I thought you were referring to Ellie. Mb. Of course she has that memory the whole time, but it's not what she's focused on. She's focused on how she never got to fully forgive Joel. It wasn't until that final moment when she saw Abby with Lev and could finally connect everything. Again, I think you're boiling everything down to "revenge bad" which isn't entirely fair when there's so much more to it||

[zenith lichen]

||I don't get what they're trying to say. The ending isn't supposed to make you feel great and happy. It's a tragic ending. "It's so damn sad." I mean yeah that's the point? You feel Ellies pain.||

Also that subreddit is horrible. What an awful community

[potent nacelle]

||Well, ''interesting'' is a very subjective thing. A story that can be interesting to you can be uninteresting to me. What isn't so subjective on the other hand, are patterns and cohesiveness. It's fine if Neil wanted to do a non-conventional character arc and a non-conventional story. But then he shouldn't have structured it exactly like a conventional negative character arc, and a conventional revenge story. The very reason why I keep saying how revenge stories go, is because they at this point are one very specific genre in and of itself, and all stories which fall into it go through a very specific pattern, also. Negative character arcs are exactly build upon worse and worse decisions, that is what they are, and they are objectively arcs too. They just go downward, and I think you will have a hard case to build arguing against the fact that Ellie is a better person at the very start of the game, than she is at the very end, with everyone she's killed including dogs. On themes, storytelling isn't very different from a stack of dominos making up one cohesive image, and if you drop a big important domino, the rest will fall behind. Destroying the once cohesive image they formed. A dominant theme is exactly that, dominant. It's what the story focuses on at the beginning by setting it up, and what it focuses at the end, by concluding the thematic. Godfather would not be Godfather without Mike's negative arc, even if it is also a story about family, loyalty, power, justice. From hero to villain is the dominant way through which we see the story unfold, it is how it starts, and it is how it ends. It's what we're left with at the end.||

I don't care what is the subreddit's state, I'm just showcasing an individual's dissatisfaction with the product.

[zenith lichen]

||Yes it is subjective. Pretty much this entire discussion is subjective. You keep saying "this is how revenge stories typically are told" and act like that's the only way to do it. Any type of subversion is bad writing. I just can't agree with that. This is subjective from both of us. I never said she was a good person at the end. I said wrong decision after wrong decision all because she was unable get past the anger she had, she was finally able to stop and see what she was doing and the consequences so far and the future consequences if she never stopped. ||

[potent nacelle]

I'm not saying stories should be told that way, I'm saying that breaking a pattern and making it incoherent, taking subtext and stripping it out to explain to your audience what it means, and ducking at the very end so you can make an X pattern into a Y pattern, is bad storytelling.

every art has basic rules, and storytelling has basic rules of drama. You can break them in a way that is cohesive to what you're telling, and why you're telling it. Or you can break them so you can overexplain what was already explained. Taking away the contribution between viewer and creator from your work, which once mostly was championed on it.

When a discussion surrounding TLOU2 is based around you giving more value to sub thematic, like that excuses how the main thesis is told with the finesse of a children's book and the coherency of Deus Ex Machina, then I don't think the problem is people ignoring sub themes.

[zenith lichen]

What's incoherent about the story? I don't get what you mean by taking subtext out and explaining to the audience. Just because what happens isn't up to interpretation, doesn't mean there's no engagement for the audience. ||Half way through the game challenges you to play as a character that killed a character that you have grown attached to. The game isn't trying to get you to fill in the blanks for anything. It want to test your ability to see the other side of the story. Exactly what Ellie has to do at the end.||

[potent nacelle]

''the other side of the story'', let me correct you. The right side of the story.

||as abby doesn't kill people with names, she helps dogs, and pretty much has a way better relationship with everybody in her life than Ellie does.||

if I did this whole brick wall of text talking about interpretation on this type of storytelling, about negative character arcs, giving examples of such, and you still don't get it. Then I think truly someone else is boiling criticisms down to ''X thing bad.''

[potent nacelle]

this whole damn thing is about subtext, dude.

Though I'm certain that you already understood it, you just don't agree with it. Again the thing that I always say. It's not that you can't see how else this story could've been told, you just don't agree with the other options.

[zenith lichen]

||Doesn't kill people with names? She kills Joel right at the start. She kills someone you're more attached to than anyone lol||

[potent nacelle]

and then the game gives her a whole reason to

[zenith lichen]

I disagree with other options because I think they're inferior ways of telling the story. You disagree with the option how the story was already told. There's nothing different.

Everything we're saying is subjective. Can't act like there's an objectively better way to tell this story

[potent nacelle]

||nothing that abby does is written to put the player against her, on the contrary, everything is written to be extra positive for her side of the story. TLOU2's way of equaling our sympathy for Abby is to bring Ellie down, and push Abby up. Look guys Ellie kills everyone with names! they scream their names! she kills dogs! (which the game forces you to) Ellie treats everyone like shit, many people question how she even has a girlfriend that is so nice to her, when she is so extremely blunt with her communication. But of course, Abby is different, she even had a loving relationship with her dad. Look at that||

[zenith lichen]

||It pushes Abby up because she starts at 0. She's still not a good person. She's blinded by rage just like Ellie is. The game wants to put each other on the same level. If it doesn't push Abby up then you just leave thinking "oh Abby is just a piece of shit" and you have 0 sympathy for her.||

[potent nacelle]

Again, failing to understand that in storytelling there are macro and micro reactions to your work, and creators fine tune their stories so that the reaction they expect will be falling into the macro side of the whole thing. One of them being ''people don't like stories that infantilize their intellectual for the sake of middle school messaging.'' Another thing you can spend the whole day looking around for people using the same phrases: ''this is repetitive'' ''I've seen this before, I know what the message is'' ''this is such a forcefully told conclusion.''

[potent nacelle]

yes because stories haven't time and time again achieved the same effect of empathy by still making their characters completely sickos

Joker just came out?

people still love Walter White?

You achieve empathy by showing more than one facet of a character, even if the other side is completely bad. Not by making a caricature of a good person and handling it to us. ''Here it is, now remove your dislike of them!''

it's fabricated empathy, so much for the testing. There is no testing, there is very little choice.

||to the point if you hate Abby, your hate isn't even justified. She killed the dude who killed her father, it's the only thing there is to truly hate about her. And that is made sure to be given a good, sound reasoning to happen. So really there is no other traits that can be disliked here. She beats Ellie up? oh well, Ellie kills other people she likes too. It all reverts to an undeniable feeling of ''there's no real reason to feel negative about this girl.''||

TLOU2 spoilers above

[zenith lichen]

||Not comparable? Get to the final season and have a character you've seen for 5 minutes kill Walter off and make him the new main character until the last episode.||

[potent nacelle]

Very much comparable, these characters off people left and right for the same ''sound reasons'' we are given in the game.

yet they don't have a need to fabricate any empathy by artificially making them a good person

[zenith lichen]

||You've spent the last what 12 hours(?) of the game not knowing this. It's testing you after having solidified your opinion that Abby isn't good. To make it even harder, iirc, the game switches perspectives right after she kills one of Ellies friends||

[potent nacelle]

||and? Is ''beating Ellie up'' the sole reason why now you're perpetually angry with this girl the game made you play with during a comically positive campaign for such a dark narrative? None of the reasons why people hate Abby come across as reasonable, because there are none to be grasped here. She kills the favorite character for her own revenge of what he did, and then she plays with dogs and visits children spaces and talks nicely to her loved ones for the next 6 hours. It's blatantly playing for her side. The game could hardly make her less of a hero besides her one body count with Joel.||

[zenith lichen]

||You're angry at Abby up until that point because she's the villain of the story. Again, you know essentially nothing about Abby until the switch perspectives. The game has to play to her side because you've spent the last 12 hours against her and only told you that she is bad. If it just turned out she was a piece of shit then you would never sympathize with her.||

[potent nacelle]

except again, narratives where you sympathize with the douchebag have been done time and time again

you yourself admits how the game doesn't trust the audience to have any empathy left in them

[zenith lichen]

But there's no reason to at that point. You've seen her for 30 minutes out of 12 hours? You are never given a reason to

[potent nacelle]

||again, this game is incapable of letting you conclude what you have to conclude, without forcefully feeding it all through an artificially fabricated lens. In those 12 hours there was more than enough time to show a human being acting like a human being, what we see is a hero acting like a hero. And a villain (Ellie) acting like a villain. None of her kills needed to be the way they were, but giving name to random npcs you kill and making you be an absolute beast that treats everyone around you poorly? This is a black and white story, and the epiphany at the last moment straddles the line of fairy tale ''goodness.''||

||making Ellie threaten a kid just so Abby could fight her, Abby which at this point is too good of a person to even want the fight to continue. Incredible.||

[zenith lichen]

||In those 12 hours we know nothing about Abby? I really don't get what you're saying. There's 0 reason anyone would feel sympathy for Abby prior to the perspective change. Abby isn't portrayed as some saint either? She's spent the last 5(?) years of her life hunting down one person. Just like Ellie, she is also motivated by revenge.||

[potent nacelle]

12 hours in the other perspective, to be factually correct those are 10-15 hours of campaign.

[zenith lichen]

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/41753

[potent nacelle]

||https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/06/24/the-last-of-us-part-2-how-long-do-you-play-as-ellie-abby/||

[zenith lichen]

||Main story says 24 hours and the perspective change is about half way through. I'm just guessing the time. Could be off idk. doesn't change my point||

||How long do you play as Ellie in The Last Of Us 2?

You play as Ellie in The Last Of Us Part 2 for about 12-hours before switching over to Abby||

[zenith lichen]

||Yeah so exactly what I've been saying?||

[potent nacelle]

||again, 12 hours of Abby being artificially written as the good guy, and more 12 hours of Ellie destroying other people in the brutest of ways, and being a dull ''two words response'' type girlfriend. If we didn't know Ellie from the first game god knows if we would even like playing as her.||

[potent nacelle]

||you're just arguing in bad faith by now. When you agree with the points I'm making surrounding the game's pandering to Abby. ''Because they needed to show she's not a piece of shit.'' Yeah, so they craft a caricature of a hero you can play as and force your empathy tingles to go off.||

[zenith lichen]

||Prior to those 12 hours of playing as Abby, you are given 12 hours of being told she isn't good and the villain of the story. And don't act like Abby doesn't kill people in incredibly brutal ways too? ||

[zenith lichen]

??????????

[zenith lichen]

||I'm not arguing in bad faith?? What are you talking about? They don't "they craft a caricature of a hero"? I'm saying they can't have a character that is impossible to attach to. If she's a piece of shit then why would you ever feel sympathy for her? You can connect to characters like Joker and Walter White because you want to see them succeed. Even if they are terrible. You'd have no reason to feel that way for Abby if she was just a horrible killing machine with 0 empathy for others.||

[potent nacelle]

||she doesn't need to be a piece of shiet, but a character that never has a moment where you leave her side of the story, meanwhile you have every right to leave Ellie's, is artificially pandering to one side. There are countless moments in BB and Joker where I'm actively not on his side anymore, but I never hate either character because I understand them. Nevertheless, I don't like their actions.||

in fact, episode 1 of Breaking Bad you already have Walter beating people up. He ain't a good grandpa. And how aggressive he is towards the bullies isn't a righteous move. Nobody considers that in real life, look at Will Smith.

all the story has to do, is give it a reason to understand those not so righteous moves, that is what breeds empathy towards the character.

[proven kiln]

"nobody" as in half of the country

I don't exactly what recall what said bullies were doing in the first episode of Breaking Bad, but I highly doubt it is comparable to Chris Rock's joke during his joke routine thing

[potent nacelle]

you can go around the internet anywhere, people that go ''you insulted me, I'll beat you up in a fight'' are not the ones getting praised for their actions. You are just seen as someone who can retort with nothing but violence the moment your feelings are hurt by other people's insults of you. Very out of context, but MoistCritikal just made a video on one of those people, live moment of someone embarrassing themselves by threatening others of ''beating them up'' on social media.

In the first episode of BB, some kids were mocking Walt's son because he buys clothes with his parents still.

[proven kiln]

OK, what did Walt do again?

[potent nacelle]

the answer is literally one scroll above of your own comment. Jesus christ

[restive turret]

If I was Craig Mazin, I’d be jumping ship right about … yesterday.

Last of Us 2 discourse is as toxic as TLJ discourse. There is no salvaging something with this horrible of an online discussion.

They can go in there and adapt it faithfully and people will be angry.

If they change things radically to appease fan complaints, people will be angry.

It’s a lose-lose situation.

Let Neil Druckmann handle it and the story can be adapted faithfully to his wishes. He can take the heat. Doesn’t matter anyway since there’s only two games.

Unless they’re thinking about doing a Bill and Frank spin-off.

That would be fun.

[acoustic stream]

idk WHY they was so much hate on the adorable giraffe thing

[oblique ferry]

Apparently, people thought it was bad CGI when it was actually a real giraffe

Hilarious

[dire island]

https://time.com/6263398/the-last-of-us-finale-medical-ethics/

This is a fascinating read

[slow nova]

I think Mazin is who HBO trusts, they would not let Druckmann alone, or else they would have to attach someone more prominent who has done work for HBO before and have him guide Druckmann. There's evidence that Druckmann would have already fucked up if he was alone, he wanted the first episode of the series to end without ever seeing Ellie, and with Joel throwing that kid in the fire.

Mazin has no reason to jump ship, he's calling Druckmann a genius left and right, wether it's in podcasts or interviews, for coming up with the TLOU story, and he knows all about the second game, controversy or not they're gonna do some huge numbers and I'm sure they'll find ways to keep people coming back via use of flashbacks or at least the need for a good closure and "justice", and even if it absolutely sucks or there's outrage, it's all directed at Druckmann eventually for me at least, Mazin is just a person that knows the TV medium well and he's trying to adapt the game, he's not responsible for the core decisions of the plot, the only thing he can do the way I see it is soften the blow.

[slow nova]

I think people just compare it with the game, and in the game it was superior because there was a build up to it, you could see something huge and you didn't know what the crap it was, and then there was the reveal, Ellie's delight and the beautiful music that you could barely hear on the TV show. I personally liked it, but the experience is nowhere near as close as when you have the controller and you and Joel have the same question, what the heck is that thing, are we in danger?

[acoustic stream]

well it was great in the show

[dire island]

The reason why last of us show was so good is because of both Mazin and Druckmann working together.. HBO would have never trusted druckmann alone

While Mazin had proven himself with Chernobyl.. making a game and a TV show is two different things

[slow nova]

BIG TIME SPOILERS FOR THE SECOND GAME if you haven't played it. Regarding this whole doctor situation one thing that bothered me in ||Part II is that while Ellie goes through the process of finding out what Joel did in Part I and try to accept it and move on, Abby never realises the irrational and sudden thinking of her dad, and not only do we not see her oppose it or somehow stall his decision but she even encourage him by telling him she would do the exact same thing. I wish they touched upon that somehow, or even in Part III when it happens, I hope they find a new medical facility where they tell her that they can basically figure out what's going on with her without taking her life, proving that Abby's dad made some quick and ill-advised decisions. But I highly doubt that would help the overall narrative that has been built so far.||

[dire island]

At this point I trust Mazin fully, he has proven to me and Druckmann is still getting involved.. they are splitting part ii of the game into at least 2 seasons

[slow nova]

I think it's a smart play splitting it to two, there's a lot of frustrating moments for the audience throughout the second storyline and it's better for all of them to not be in one season as they might cause a decrease in viewership. Also and more importantly in my opinion, gives them time to work on Part III and for Season 4 to come closer to the potential release of the game.

Like a tie-in.

[restive turret]

The reason it probably looked so off for a lot of people is because of the environment

everything surrounding the giraffe was edited in post

[oblique ferry]

It looked okay?

Well, didnt bother me

So

[dense coral]

The giraffe was also likely from different take than Bella and Pedro in many shots

[restive turret]

there was definitely a lot of tricky compositing work.

the hardest thing when it comes to CG is lighting

getting it perfect is the most painstaking part of the process

[slow nova]

I think one of the main things is you could tell it was green screen and that it was suspending the disbelief a little bit.

[restive turret]

someone in the article pointed out that the game hints that the Fireflies didn't have to kill Ellie and that she may not actually be the first person they've tried to manufacture a cure with

is that actually in the game? cuz i dont remember that

not that it matters now since if it was, it definitely wasnt in the show

since that would make the decision less controversial and would make joel's act seem less damning

[dire island]

I haven't played the game.. so don't know

[sick pawn]

Nah, fuck em. If Craig abandons ship, it gives more power to the toxic base. Best to just stand your ground and deliver something. People act like the show's ratings will just tank if they adapt TLOU2 as if TLOU2 was this critical failure that made $0 - the only people who think that are ones who live in their echo chamber of hate. I'd say that a large bulk of the audience are people who haven't played the game and are just interested in participating in more of these stories, ignoring whatever drivel the anti-TLOU2 folks say.

[dire island]

I totally agree and after the reception last of us has received I think Mazin will continue working plus he has already said there may be some big changes in season 2.. after all this show isn't just for game fans

[oblique ferry]

Wonder what plot point they did that made some people be this angry with the game

Anyways, cant wait to find out

[slow nova]

There's 11 audio clips (I think) that you find in the game that point to the Fireflie's incompetence, explains what they were doing with the monkeys in the other lab and also I think it has some backstory on the main doctor but I don't know if they name him specifically, but yes these collectibles exist and they were there to create ambiguity.

[slow nova]

They won't tank but ||Pedro Pascal is a draw and Joel's death is permanent. I don't believe that this will have no impact in the viewership or how the show is perceived. The good thing is there's always the chase for revenge that might keep viewers going.|| [Spoilers for Last of Us Part II]

[sick pawn]

Nah

[slow nova]

Oh shit you're right! Great point.

[dire island]

Well, ||there definitely may be some impact but I think unlike in the game Joel won't be killed early in second season but perhaps in season 2 finale and like GoT killings, people will be angry but they will come back || spoilers from LoU ii game

[sick pawn]

I know it's a great point. I said it. 😎

[slow nova]

I think that's too much of a time stretch but could work, I dunno.

[dire island]

In Mazin I trust, let's see what they will do

Season 2 I think is at least 2 years away

[sick pawn]

The sooner people get over TLOU2, the quicker we can realize that perhaps Mazin and Druckmann can produce something that'll make everyone happy. It seems like they are all willing to make concessions to make a solid adaptation.

If people can forgive Mazin for being the writer for Superhero Movie and Epic Movie Scary Movie 4, I'm sure Druckmann can earn his weird redemption with angry gamers through this adaptation.

[slow nova]

What people? Casual fans don't know shit about TLOU2 and they're just waiting for Season 2. Disgruntled gamers is a very small percentage of the HBO audience, they legit don't matter.

[sick pawn]

Ease up on the defenses a little.

Don't get aggressive with me. Take it on your camera in the SUV.

I'm hoping that those angry gamers can finally lay down their bones they have picked with the franchise with this adaptation, whether or not their viewership matters. It gets tiresome seeing people beat the same drum years after release.

[slow nova]

Let's say it happens, how will you know? Will they release a statement or something? And even if they do how will they affect you and your enjoyment of the show?

[sick pawn]

? lol

Chill out, brother

I'm not personally attacking you so I don't know why you're getting aggressive over this.

[slow nova]

I'm just saying, they're not involved in the production. Also I'm not aggressive I'm just asking questions.

[sick pawn]

You're just asking very oddly defensive questions, as if I'm personally making them about you. Just ease up a little.

I know they're not involved in the production, don't be obtuse.

I'd personally just like to see those folks get an adaptation they can enjoy. Sucks seeing toxicity.

[slow nova]

They might shoot everything back to back, although it might not make sense logistically.

[sick pawn]

It would sense to shoot it back-to-back, if it means they can save on costs.

[slow nova]

It's obvious that they don't like the game's story any kind of adaptation would never satisfy them.

[sick pawn]

Okay, brother

You're welcome to bypass everything I'm saying. It's your right to do so

[slow nova]

lol

[sick pawn]

Anyways, this is getting rather silly lol

[tame crag]

whispers scary movie

other whispers join the hangover part II

[sick pawn]

Chernobyl 😎

The thing about being a screenwriter is that despite the fact those films weren't good, they were critically successful and Mazin made a career out of writing whatever producers wanted him to write, regardless of quality.

If a producer looked at his drafts and went, 'Yep we'll roll with it' it means that Mazin did his job. I don't think the producers of Scary Movie would've taken well to a horror-parody written like Chernobyl.

[tame crag]

i hope he got possessed by the Good Spirit of Screenwriting

and stopped with the trash for good

but let me doubt

[potent nacelle]

He's probably responsible for the skeleton of the tvshow's script

[tame crag]

especially looking at that "borderlands"

in his coming projects

[potent nacelle]

Given the new interviews where he says how much he had to work on-set for the entirety of the series

[sick pawn]

I mean if his scripts are being accepted by producers, he's a good screenwriter.

[tame crag]

well yes but, i tend not to trust producers that produce scary movie

or the hangover...

[sick pawn]

Then that's not really his fault lol

[tame crag]

i mean hangover 1 is superb

but 1 isn't written by him lol

[sick pawn]

Yeah I wasn't willing to hedge any bets that two sequels to a one-trick pony comedy were going to be good.

They were just repeats.

[tame crag]

if they were repeats they would be entertaining atleast

[sick pawn]

He created and wrote Chernobyl, which was a critically acclaimed series. It seems he finally got to write the things he wanted to write.

[tame crag]

but part 2 is cringeworthy moviemaking

[sick pawn]

Eh, agree to disagree. Doesn't bother me any haha

[tame crag]

and part 3, well

part 3.

[sick pawn]

I'd blame Todd Phillips then because he produced and directed them lol

[tame crag]

jesus christ someone stop phillips from doing anything, just let him focus on other hobbies

football, golf, rugby

kickboxing so that i can root for whoever is punching him

it's a miracle joker came out like this

and not like a somewhat tragic comedy

anyhow, i'll wait a lot before watching tlou2, i'm happy with the adaptation of the first

now please do an adaptation of deathloop 😫 that deserves so much

[potent nacelle]

These movies are also on their way to be a decade old now, just like Todd Phillips, I don't really believe their previous works are all that good, not in comparison to the new stuff— whether by studio interference or their own personal workflow. I believe their recent stuff is good mostly on the basis that they've gained experience along the way. And that goes for them becoming stronger filmmakers/writers and being able to not break in half at studios demands, working under pressure is in and of itself a skill too.

[tame crag]

looks at war dogs yeeeah... well, who knows.

growing old may make them suddenly adults, you never know

[potent nacelle]

Well I come from my own visual arts background, and for us you first have to do a 130 bad paintings for the first half-good one to come out. Seeing the history of those two creators is a very non-abnormal journey in my perspective.

Making mistakes is often times the best way to learn

And I think Todd and Mazin learned pretty well-- so far.

[tame crag]

imho that's a bit too deep, it looks more like mazin just does better writing for TV, which is fair

and phillips... just became bored of doing pure shit

both things are very common, but still i'm pretty sure your previous experience may induce you into weird stuff, that's why i'm not even bothering watching borderlands 'cause i already know some wicked crap is coming out of that

[potent nacelle]

I don't know, for TV you still have to think of episodes in the same 3rd act structure you would in movies, it's a more micro management than a 2 hour movie, but let's be honest tv has become 50 to 1 hour films at this point.

[tame crag]

yeah they're just very long movies divided into episodes lol

still, tv has perhaps less pressure for the writers than a movie, because you can actually "fix" stuff during filming

[potent nacelle]

Same for Chernobyl, you watch one episode and it already feels like you've been presented a whole movie worth of content

Depending on the filmmaker and studio, they can do that too, it just most of the time won't work lol

[tame crag]

it's not like "ok the script is this, it got accepted, it's done" and then you do perhaps small changes and adapt to the actors (very rare nowadays to do this, aswell), you actually change stuff drastically sometimes

[potent nacelle]

Usually, scripts half written on-set are not very great

[tame crag]

i'm pretty sure the whole bill and frank episode came out of nowhere

it was like "well this is some weird shit to adapt, let me see if i can output something better"

bam, sundance film script lol

[potent nacelle]

Maybe, maybe not. The flashback in the finale according to Mazin was something Neil told him when they first started to talk about the series in pre production, and it took all the way through here for them to tell it

Wouldn't be too far fetched if episode 3 was also background Neil told him, and he decided to drastically expand on it

[slow nova]

Which is funny, cause trying to recover a car battery from a school full of infected would' ve been massively cool and also would be exactly what this show needed cause in the end they didn't have quite as many infected interactions as they wanted.

[tame crag]

yeah but bill backstory sucked badly, fun gameplay part, weak story part

[slow nova]

The danger of the infected and the humans was part of the glue that brought Joel and Ellie together.

[tame crag]

especially the whole frank situation is like "wtf?"

[slow nova]

Well, it was sad as shit, true.

[slow nova]

Also remember that the letter is completely optional, some people might never find it or know what exactly was up between Bill and Frank?

[tame crag]

yeah and that makes it (imho, but very not imho) 100x worse

you are left wondering "what the actual fuck just happened here"

[slow nova]

Yeah, and the average gamer would read maybe half or less of the collectibles he finds, think of all the stories from the games (TLOU or not) that are being left behind.

[tame crag]

LEFT BEHIND AHAH, yeah, well

that's a problem i have with many games

like, all those quests in elder scrolls?

i dont read half of those.

[slow nova]

Especially Remedy games it's fucking unbearable.

[tame crag]

and i sometimes miss interesting storylines

i've been playing elder scrolls online and sometimes i find out i'm playing an interesting af quest

only when i'm about to end it and i'm in some cool place

so i go like "yo wtf, what brought me here"

and find out i missed on some huge sidequest

[slow nova]

I've never played elder scrolls tbh, but when I was playing The Witcher 1 for example I stopped reading collectibles in the first quarter of the game, I felt they dragged down my flow.

[tame crag]

yeah it happens, last game that integrated stuff interestingly was morrowind

infact it took me an awful amount of time to finish morrowind lol

although deathloop is doing an awesome job

but they adopt a totally different stance

like you can listen to conversations from enemies, find out stuff, and then you read about that stuff from clues you find around

still, i'm pretty sure a lot of peeps jumped most of the recordings

that's why while technically a superior medium for taking in-depth analysis of plot points, videogames come out as an inferior medium due to the nature of how you approach it

you're not going to treat it like a book or a radio broadcast, you're going to skip parts 'cause you want to play

[slow nova]

That's why I love it when they have transcripts along with the recordings so I can just quickread it.

[tame crag]

yeeeah... that's 'cause you don't have italian dubbers making it so much more entertaining lol

i swear deathloop italian dubbing is such high quality i rarely saw it in any movie or game before

and the original dubbing is stellar aswell

[potent nacelle]

cutscene and memo skippers smh

read them all!

[restive turret]

Ah, I see. That’s interesting.

[restive turret]

I have high doubts ratings would tank. People thought GOT’s final season was hot garbage. That didn’t stop ratings from being massive. Also, IIRC, TLOU2 still made bank and won tons of GOTY awards.

But as a creator trying to build cache, which is especially hard to build, it might be best to step off the tracks if you see a train coming.

[sick pawn]

Nah I don't think Craig should step aside just because there's a vitriolic element in a franchise's fandom. He is tasked with creating, writing, and directing a series and he'll carry it out. HBO isn't going to look at those vocal minority gamers and reconsider his career.

[dire island]

Why should Craig step aside when he has done a great job with last of us season 1?? This makes absolutely no sense to me and some people will always complain no matter what and we should ignore them

[sick pawn]

That's like saying Rian Johnson should ease up on filmmaking after detractors of TLJ kept trying to flounder his career and those surrounding the film - Rian sold sequel rights to Knives Out to Netflix for like $500M and has a critically-acclaimed series on Peacock.

[dire island]

Absolutely

[sick pawn]

Say what you want about TLJ, but studios don't give a shit about the whining lol

Rian delivered a $1B movie.

That's enough for other studios to consider picking him up

[dire island]

Totally and studios shouldn't care what some people are complaining on twitter

[restive turret]

I’m inclined to agree there. But Rian Johnson actually stepped away from Star Wars for that to happen.

He didn’t come back and try to develop another project. Well, there was that trilogy.

But it never materialized.

[sick pawn]

I'm not seeing the connection here.

His success isn't measured by whether he comes back and develops another SW title - it's measured by the portfolio he builds subsequent to that.

[dire island]

What are you saying?? Last of us season 1 has near universal acclaim unlike the last jedi

So why should he quit now ??

[restive turret]

The Last Jedi was pretty acclaimed

[sick pawn]

Furthermore, it doesn't seem like Disney is in a rush to fast-track another trilogy so why should he sit and wait?

[restive turret]

It had like. 93 RT score or something

It was fans that were split on it

[dire island]

It was very divisive among the fans unlike the last of us season 1 which majority loved..

[sick pawn]

Yeah I dunno, I'm in the camp that HBO probably doesn't give much of a shit about the vocal minority of gamers who send death threats to actresses.

Craig has shown that he's able to deliver on-time

They're not about to lose him now

[restive turret]

Yeah, but Season 2 and 3 is what we’re taking about. They will be based on TLOU2, which was similarly divisive

At least from a fan standpoint

Critics loved TLOU2

[dire island]

Mazin and Druckmann have a great relationship, I listened to each and every one of their official podcast episode and they have plans moving forward

[sick pawn]

I don't think HBO is concerned with 'bot_account_2354' screaming about TLOU2

[dire island]

Among the gamers.. not general audience because many didn't play that alright

[sick pawn]

Most adaptations aren't developed with gamers in mind - they're designed to attract a general audience, with the pre-existing fanbase hoping to accompany it.

[restive turret]

That’s a good point. Gamers tend to be a lot more critical than the average person.

[dire island]

And when that moment comes, then we will deal with it.. also Mazin has said there will be changes from the game too

[restive turret]

Same can be said for Star Wars fans

[sick pawn]

Nobody hates SW more than SW fans hahaha

[dire island]

That's true

For me, the last of us season 1 was incredible, I haven't played the game and I loved it.. and so the idea that Mazin should now leave all of a sudden is preposterous

[restive turret]

I mean, considering they’re splitting the game into two seasons, I imagine there will be many sweeping changes

[dire island]

Certainly possible

Let's wait and see,

[restive turret]

I could see ||Joel’s untimely demise|| being a season 2 cliffhanger instead of something that occurs right off the bat

[dire island]

I absolutely think so too

[proper bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/ellie-the-last-of-us-tlou-gif-22893198

[uneven pawn]

https://youtube.com/shorts/t0GAaJ5Xf44?feature=share

Hunky Daddy UwU

[slow nova]

(I suggest you spoiler tag your message.) Besides of the giant time stretch two of the reasons I can't see this happening is because a) it would cause poeple to maybe look up to ||what happens to Joel|| if they have to wait that long which is something that the creators definitely wouldn't want and b) wouldn't a complete restructuring of the story just to accomodate this thing happening in the end kind of signify an admittance of fault in the way the game presents the events? I think time wise the events of the game will be presented similiarly as they were to the game for better or worse.

[winged gorge]

I'm sorry what?

By whom?

[winged gorge]

YOU SHOULD BRUH

IT'S SO DAMN GOOD

[digital mauve]

91% of Rotten Tomatoes
84 on Metacritic

apparently speaking

[winged gorge]

I'm surpsied people in here haven't played i-

Oh I see what you mean.

By like officals.

[digital mauve]

Yes

[winged gorge]

But the film is still devicive.

[digital mauve]

Fans are torn though

[winged gorge]

yeah, I don't blame em

[sick pawn]

TLJ kino

[sick pawn]

Ease up on the yellin', boy

[winged gorge]

Don't call me boy.

[sick pawn]

The film is divisive with people who've made it their whole personality to just hate stuff. It must be tiresome, but it also doesn't take away from Rian's ability.

[digital mauve]

I wouldn’t say kino myself but honestly definitely no where near as atrocious at all as people say

[winged gorge]

I disagree.

[sick pawn]

In the context of the previous discussion, Craig shouldn't keel over to fan demands.

If you thought it was atrocious, you need to watch more movies.

[digital mauve]

Lol

[winged gorge]

I think it comes from a place of passion.

[digital mauve]

honestly it’s okay

maybe decent

not the best but still not bad

[sick pawn]

Yeah I don't really care to get into a whole big thing about the film. I think it's radical

[winged gorge]

I didn't like it at all tbh.

[sick pawn]

And that's cool

I would never try and get you to like it

[winged gorge]

Yeah

You can like the film.

[sick pawn]

Thanks? lol

[winged gorge]

Or dislike it

It's when people like

Start doxing each other and shit over it

[sick pawn]

Yeah that's mad cringe

[winged gorge]

That shits toxic

[sick pawn]

Those folks just hate because they got rotten hearts

[winged gorge]

Like when they leaked Adam DRivers adress and exposed private family info about him

[digital mauve]

seriously in what world does hating on a film justifies doxxing

[winged gorge]

That shit is cancerous

[winged gorge]

Sick people

Chronically online, more then me.

And that's saying something

[sick pawn]

Yeah that is true

[winged gorge]

Like some shit with the Bella Ramasy thing

[sick pawn]

Folks who just hate to hate are in need for therapy and coping mechanisms

[winged gorge]

She's gone above and beyond, the only critsim people keep throwing is that she doesn't look like Ellie. But her perfromance is great.

[sick pawn]

That's why I'm glad that Craig and Neil are going to tackle TLOU2 and hopefully not kneel to toxic fan demands.

[winged gorge]

I'd rather have a great actress then a game accurate cosplayer trying to act.

[winged gorge]

I mean I still think there gonna change stuff for the medium, like they did here.

[sick pawn]

I'm aware

[winged gorge]

But we'll see, only time will tell.

Anyway, what would you rate the show

Seaosn 1

out of 10

[viral plank]

Now that the shows is over it's safe to say it was over hyped. Great show but it couldve been more

Too much time skipping between the episodes and not enough clickers

[potent nacelle]

TLOU isn't about the clickers m8

[digital mauve]

after this show/season ended

||(X) Doubt||

[sick pawn]

The Walking Dead may be up your alley if you wanted more zombies.

[tame crag]

it could have been more? Yes.
"more" means more zombies and abused stuff? No.

[proven kiln]

The entire appeal of the video game narrative was the Joel character. He's amazing in game, but in the show Pedro Pascal totally phones it in. I suggest playing the original game in the PS4 or PS5 remaster if you have either console. It's a lot of fun game play wise and I think there's a good chance you'll see eye to eye with me on the Joel thing.

There's also a PS3 emulation / Last of Us ROM option if you only have a gaming PC and no console

not as good as portraying the acting ability of the characters through the older console though lol

[viral plank]

Walking dead stops being about zombies as well

[viral plank]

I've played the game. Almost all the gameplay is something to do with stealth and avoiding clickers

[proven kiln]

how long ago? You might see it differently now...it's a story campaign through and through. Yeah, there's gameplay involved, but citing how many hours of it there were because you probably sucked at it isn't really a relevant critique

[viral plank]

Lmao

[winged gorge]

Remember that had to adapt this for a game

So naturally there is going tk be less action.

In a game we experience more because by nature it is designed so that we control Joel moment to-moment . Where there show used a montage to depict the scene where Joel goes and saves Ellie, we experience the full shootout playing as Joel. This is because a game by nature allows the player to experience what might be considered mundane in a film or television show.

[viral plank]

It still should've had scenes involving clickers and the action/stealth sequences in the game. This was more of a drama between Ellie and Joel than any other part of the game

Like the entire sequence in episode 8 was cut back alot

[digital mauve]

likely because maybe it wouldn’t translate well to the series

they inevitably have to make cut backs

[dapper plank]

Yeah it’s not like zombies in film or tv have been successful before

[tame crag]

Good answer

But peeps will be too busy feeling insecure about Abby being ripped for thinking about too many/too few infected, that's the future

[proven kiln]

honestly they did the best they could have with the series except Pedro fuckin sucks. He's just a mediocre actor in general

the writing was great though I thought they did a good job as far as discerning what to cut from the game

[proven kiln]

wow where did you find this reel that depicts the entirety of Pedro's acting range?

[torn dirge]

buddy im not gonna say you're wrong, because its a subjective thing

but you are absolutely the only person i've seen with this take lmao

[torn dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-javi-gutierrez-pedro-pascal-the-unbearable-weight-of-massive-talent-happy-gif-25136014

How can you hate this man

[fathom marsh]

Just finished watching a play through of part 2 on YouTube

Season two of the show will be soul crushing 😭

[dire island]

Pedro pascal sucks, that's one of the worst takes I have ever heard

[proven kiln]

I don't hate him by any means, I just resent his inability to stand up to the towering character in my mind that is Joel

[proven kiln]

He doesn't suck. He's mediocre. He has little range. He's alright.

When it comes to filling Joel's shoes, he sucks.

[dire island]

I absolutely disagree.. Pedro Pascal is awesome, saw him first in Narcos show and he was great in that.. I loved him in the last of us and mandalorian and Game of thrones.. I personally will watch him on anything

[dire island]

He's a perfect Joel

[proven kiln]

I'm sorry, just no. I disagree whole heartedly. Clive Owen is the closest name I could think of who has the range to play Joel.

Pedro is still a B-lister, so it makes sense that he was casted

[dire island]

Nah, and ya let's agree to disagree here

Part of the reason why the last of us is so successful is due to Pedro Pascal performance imo

[proven kiln]

Pedro literally did the same performance he does in everything else he's in. Pedro is usually casted for somewhat meek and pathetic characters. That said, I think he could play a badass and fill Joel's shoes but I honestly don't think Joel from the game had the same impact on him or you or anyone else who thinks he's a great Joel because he is definitely phoning this performance in as his usual Pedro.

Like, in the beginning where people are "intimidated" in the QZ by Joel. Pedro does not sell it at all. Video game Joel totally does. I'm curious what the voice actor looks like or the person they modeled him after is.

[dire island]

Absolutely disagree and for me, the game and a TV show are two separate things.. I don't even care much about the game

[proven kiln]

No, the Last of Us show is successful is because the writers took a break from taking a shit on all that is holy for 5 minutes and didn't fuck with the goddamn story so much. Therefore in their elation of finally getting the show they wanted, they see something in Pedro that's just not fucking there.

[dire island]

If Joel wasn't casted well the show wouldn't have been as good as it got.. you clearly are biased against Pedro alright, that's fine but I think he's great

[proven kiln]

dude, so far I have said: I think he's generally mediocre, that I don't hate him, that I think he could have done the job if he really wanted to. Does that sound like bias to you? Give me a fucking break. Maybe play the first 20 minutes of one of the remasters of the original game and see what I'm actually talking about.

I think he was given a script but i don't think he experienced the game.

[dire island]

I don't care about the game alright, vast majority of people watching the show haven't played the game.. what I care is the show and Pedro's performance was incredible that's it for me..

[proven kiln]

lol

wow why the fuck did I just waste the last 15 minutes talking to you?

what a jackass

[dire island]

Hey don't be personal here...there are rules

We have a disagreement that's all.. you think Pedro's performance was mediocre... I think it was great.. let's agree to disagree and end this

[proven kiln]

dude, I'm sitting here comparing the original Joel to Pedro's performance and you're just on repeat "hur dur he was great" and you have no reference point of the actual greatness. Unbelievable.

you should have lead with "I didn't play the game"

[dire island]

Game and TV shows are Two separate things.. I don't equate the two

[proven kiln]

but you wanted to hoist your uninformed opinion on me anyway

think for a second, jesus

[dire island]

Yes but I've seen the cut scenes and side by side comparisons.. TV one did it much better for me

[proven kiln]

lol this is so wrong

[dire island]

Just my opinion

[proven kiln]

play the game from the beginning my dude

then bring this up to me again if you want

side-by-sides aren't nearly enough

highly recommend the ps4 or 5 remaster if you have the means.

has to get the last word has the least information

[dire island]

I don't need to play the game to enjoy a show, not everyone loves playing a game also but you come from a certain perspective as a big game fan and your perspective will certainly be different than mine who hasn't played the game

It's like with marvel movies.. and I too have discussions with people who are die hard comics fans and I don't read comics

[proven kiln]

it's a story campaign game it's not a huge ask to play the game. You're the one who challenged my assertions, if you're not going to follow through just stop trying to get the last word in J-F-C

still typing

[dire island]

Again, for me and many others.. I don't need to play the game to watch and enjoy a show, never did and I won't do it in the future..

Two totally different mediums

[proven kiln]

not when it comes to this particular genre of game. The Last of Us doesn't have side missions or multiple choice or anything, it is purely a story campaign. There is extremely little difference other than you're moving the story a long a bit by shooting some zombies on the way.

[dire island]

Let's agree to disagree

[proven kiln]

Not totally different mediums really at all.

No, I won't agree to disagree with either of your two major points because you're completely ignorant on one side of each point you've asserted so far. The burden of the argument is on you. I'll drop it, but you're not getting the last word, dude.

oh, he's typing again

[dire island]

I don't care about winning any argument.. I'm just expressing my opinion here that's it, I don't care about playing a game to better understand a show or a movie that's all

[proven kiln]

uh huh

You may think Pedro is great in his own right as Joel in LOU (show). I guess I could see that given the relativity to the shit we're subjected to otherwise on TV. My assertion is he does not hold a candle to Joel from the original story.

That's all.

We can't agree to disagree because we're both making entirely different statements that don't necessary negate one another.

anyway, Clive Owen would've fkin killed it

[boreal gazelle]

You don't even have to play the game. You could watch the gameplay and cutscenes on youtube or something.
It might be worth at least a glance because you might be impressed in how well the show was in not just capturing the story but also the feel and vibe of the gameplay.

[dire island]

I have watched few cutscenes and some gameplay...not the entire thing but ya from what I saw its pretty good

[torn dirge]

https://youtu.be/HJ3M1hBvZ2E idk how you can look in pedro's eyes in this scene and not think he's a phenomenal actor

[potent nacelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfqA0SiKzf8 best bloody moment from Joel in the whole season, and it ain't even in the game.

Pedro Pascal mediocre actor = delusional take

[muted sable]

Based hgh take

[short birch]

how does one have that shit of a take dude

pedro pascal a mediocre actor?

and im the queen of england

[proven kiln]

alright, give it a rest, i'll put something together to try to convey my point of view a little clearer

[acoustic stream]

he (troy baker) looks like Matt Mercer IMO and was in the David episode.

for a fan of the game and you don't know what the voice actor of your fav character doesn't look like?!

I mean I know I'm weird but Google doesn't take that much work and TLOU does PR like CRAY

[proven kiln]

I googled it before dude i just forgot what he looked like. quit trying to reach so hard on something so trivial when it's clearly me vs the entire channel already

[acoustic stream]

anyway, I like that again they had Ashley and Laura in the finale for season one... Ashley especially knocked it out of the park in the open... I sobbed... things were NOT okay

I had half a mind to toss a D20 at the screen

but they wouldn't appreciate that so I resisted

[sick pawn]

Brother, you're not Scarface. It's not you against the channel. Be confident in your opinion and own it, especially after you made it on a public forum

[tame crag]

Wait he's a gamer, have you played the same games he played before speaking?

Very rude of you

Anyway I'll go as far to say that i knew pedro pascal only cause of narcos and i haven't watched a single thing with him except that Buffy the vampire slayer episode he's in 😂😂 but i thought he totally nailed the character

The joel from the game would be so cringe to see on a real person lol

Not an easy role either, I think the absolute best was in the episode with Tommy in the city. Absolutely brilliant acting.

[torn dirge]

Pedro Pascal only real flaw is that he was in the celebrities singing Imagine video

[digital mauve]

Whole season was fantastic but man, the hospital shootout was just, meh. So frustrating. For a 45 minute episode they most definitely had to room to stretch it out a little bit instead of reducing it to a janky montage. Would have been nice to see some proper The Last of US violence from the games, drawn out, gritty, sequential action. Would have put a bit more emphasis on the horrors he committed as well but eh. Aside from that solid 9/10 show.

[fathom marsh]

Lol ikr

[fathom marsh]

I’m just glad that they didn’t make it super action packed and gory

They made it sad and disturbing, as it should be

[dapper plank]

Couldn’t imagine calling Pedro a mid actor let alone a bad one, dude is obviously talented

[slow nova]

Also in the end I expected him to be a little bit more tactical, no problem that it was a montage but he ||straight up fucking shot everyone|| and he didn't have any problem whatsoever.

[tight moat]

Yeah it felt too easy for him

Its as if they were in a rush to wrap things up quickly

[crude robin]

Hi here. Not finished show yet https://youtu.be/YJJGXkbeIiM

[tame crag]

bruh he's been speedrunning that segment for years

[tame crag]

there is a lot to say about direction in tlou, stuff was handled perfectly

[digital mauve]

I mean, personally the appeal to me of the gameplay of TLOU is the methodical violence of which you are forced to commit. It’s brutal, bleak, and unforgiving. Both games use violence to convey the key themes of depravity and vengeance which affects the human condition, with the actions the characters commit having weight put on them, instead of each enemy just being a metal target. Enemies have names, they beg for their lives, the cry our in pain from wounds. Death isn’t easy, it’s painful, and the causation of that isn’t something effortless, at least to the average individual, and I wish that’s something the show emphasised more, especially in relation to Joel’s character and the weight of the hospital massacre, but I digress.

[digital mauve]

Main aired out the hospital like he was playing on easy 💀 Stood out in the middle of a hallway with a mini-14 dropping mfs left and right wearing plate carriers and running M4s. Not saying he couldn’t clear them out because ofc he could but like, damn, he was acting more like Schwarzenegger in T1 than Joel Miller there lol.

[digital mauve]

Smoking that || early Pedro Pascal pack for S2 💀🚬 ||

[tame crag]

just a homage to those sweet cheats

[zenith lichen]

I think S1 had some pacing issues that the first game really didn't have. Everything just seemed to pass so fast. I think a lot of people agree the second game had some pacing issues where it was just very slow through some sections so I kinda hope their approach to the show will even that out. I do think a lot of the second game won't translate as well as a show. Specifically the gameplay sections. the first game is a lot more linear in the gameplay portions. They cut a lot of that out in S1 but the second game kinda needs those gameplay sections to emphasize its point. it will certainly be a pain to adapt to a show

[boreal gazelle]

I found it funny that Joel was acting like a little punk who can't do anything. But, everyone around him literally fears him. Then he proves he is a true badass.

But, still in his head he is a defeated little man.

[exotic wadi]

the only thing i didnt like about the very ending is they very clearly have set it up for season 2.

[potent nacelle]

wdym

it's the exact ending of the game...

[dire island]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVxfSkJRg0

Fascinating watch

[digital mauve]

The way first episode filmed, gives you goosebumps, when I was watching it I literally thought I am in that situation, and the sound effects was also super good.

[digital mauve]

don’t mind him

I fail to see how that’s our problem lol

[jagged lagoon]

still hate the choice joel did in the end

that scene with the sniper and them coming out of the ground was wild

[tame crag]

everyone does... even himself 👀

[strong wind]

Am I the only one who felt the dynamic between Joel and Ellie was lackluster in many ways?

I felt like the show relied on the fact that they should obviously bond due to the genre of the show rather than put time to establish it.

I think the show was horribly paced in some instances thats why it felt like a speedrun

Joel and Ellie felt more like buddies rather than a father daughter type

[dapper plank]

I just watched this video on facebook where this guy does a sculpture of the live action and game versions of Ellie and I forgot how much freckles she had in the game and how little she does in the show

[tame crag]

tbf i didn't feel this, especially after episode 8, you clearly see ellie feeling like a daughter and joel like a father

the fact it was rushed is true tho, and it shows obviously, but that's just how tv series these days are done it seems...

[strong wind]

I did overall enjoy the experience. Episodes 1 and 3 were highlights but that’s because those took their time to establish their stories. I’d hope they don’t rush the second season.

[dense coral]

you kiddos won't understand

[winged gorge]

AY BRUH THATS ME RN

[tame crag]

even promising sounds like too much work for winrar

[potent nacelle]

they still prompt that message

I don't remember if they did in win xp or 7, most of the time I acted like the message didn't exist

[tame crag]

fact is that it never was directed towards the free users lol, it was for companies

a death sentence for companies who would skip buying it

[gentle zenith]

Lmaooo

[winged gorge]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1888930/The_Last_of_Us_Part_I/

Steam

The Last of Us™ Part I

Experience the emotional storytelling and unforgettable characters in The Last of Us™, winner of over 200 Game of the Year awards.In a ravaged civilization, where infected and hardened survivors run rampant, Joel, a weary protagonist, is hired to smuggle 14-year-old Ellie out of a military quarantine zone. However, what starts as a small job soo...

Price

$59.99

Recommendations

736

▶ Play video

Hopefully it doesn’t run like ass.

[dapper plank]

Already heard bad things about the PC port

[haughty rapids]

Too late

[proven kiln]

i'm trying the 🏴‍☠️ of it now maybe it'll run better as has been the trend lately lol

[proven kiln]

holy shit it looks so amazing

[winged gorge]

Nvm it runs like ass

As expected

[sick pawn]

Yeah the PC port was half-assed, which was expected because the dev also did the ports for Arkham Knight and that was a shit show lmaoo

[digital mauve]

Watching “The Last Of Us” for the first time and when the fuq will that gay scene end with billy and Frank

[potent nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft_bozo199-gif-24566506

[digital mauve]

Very funny now answer the question

[tame crag]

i hope it lasts way longer than what you can overcome

[digital mauve]

😂

Can’t wait for the shitshow that will be s2

Bout to be 2020 all over again

[vapid owl]

Tlou2 is a masterpiece in my opinion

Not perfect but still fantastic

Hope they don't change anything too big when adapting it

Reading up on it and it looks like they aren't

Maybe people will stop being irrational weirdos about the story when it's in tv form

[proven kiln]

it was very good just a liiiittle too long, making it exhausting to play by the end

[proven kiln]

runs great at 4k/ultra for me...except for the crashes.

[proven kiln]

my prediction is that it will be drastically shortened and people will find it actually far more impactful than the first one

[digital mauve]

I predict Viewership to drop when || Pedro Pascal is killed off ||

[digital mauve]

Personally I’d rather watch it in tv form than suffer through the 2nd game (not played it but know what happens)

Also going to a revenge plot in the 2nd season won’t help imo

[proven kiln]

My viewership will certainly rise. I've been playing this PC Port and in every single cinematic that plays, my opinion about ||Pedro's mediocrity|| only grows stronger.

[digital mauve]

I’m saying he has a large fan base that may end up not watching anymore

[proven kiln]

no, yeah, I don't disagree. I just think he sucks.

I think

[digital mauve]

It’s probably not big enough to cause any issues but they may stop at S2 and not renew it

[proven kiln]

nah they have to make it

there's enough Joel flashbacks and shit in there they'll be fine.

[digital mauve]

Depends on viewership and ratings

[proven kiln]

I literally stuck it out the end of LOU2 the game because I wanted those Joel flashbacks. I'm honestly so disappointed that I haven't met anyone else who doesn't see what I see.

[digital mauve]

I’ll have to watch those on YT lol

[proven kiln]

just play the game, dude

[digital mauve]

Nah I’m good heard it’s a slog and the plot doesn’t interest me enough to warrant a play for me

[proven kiln]

2 is a slog, 1 is a lot of fun

I promise

[digital mauve]

Yeah I’ve played the first

[proven kiln]

oh yeah I thought you meant the Pedro vs in game Joel YTs which are probably all tailored in his favor

I'm putting together one myself that will make some waves

thinking I might try to get the Critical Drinker in on this one with me

[digital mauve]

No one can match Troy Baker imo

[proven kiln]

I think Clive Owen would have killed it

[vapid owl]

I think the length issues came from the slow moments

[proven kiln]

or maybe Matthew McConahaey

[digital mauve]

Is that the guy from Sin City?

[vapid owl]

I love the gameplay and combat but a lot of the game is wandering through empty environments

[proven kiln]

@digital mauve he's an A-lister, he's from everything. But yeah, lots of action films

[vapid owl]

Very well designed environments, but still

[vapid owl]

I believe he was offered a role as Joel actually but declined

He would've been perfect as David

[proven kiln]

@vapid owl would you rather anime waifus sprinkled about the place?

[digital mauve]

I’m guessing the writing wasnt intricate enough ?

[vapid owl]

Huh

[proven kiln]

of course he was. Pedro is not a good actor. I don't know why people worship him but he's the definition of blase

it's just that LOU is such a good story line that people are seeing something in him that doesn't exist.

[vapid owl]

He's a fine actor he just doesn't have much range

And he's a trend

[proven kiln]

exactly

[digital mauve]

Probably coz of the roles he gets

[proven kiln]

he's a mediocre actor with no range

[vapid owl]

Joel is so much weaker in the show

[proven kiln]

exactly

Joel is a tower of masculinity and "holy fuck this guy rocks" from the first few minutes you encounter him in the game. Pedro, I feel like kicking him in the nuts on the show

[vapid owl]

There's something missing. I think troy bakers performance was just so intricate and complex compared to Pedros

[digital mauve]

I mean he’s only been the mandalorian and a cop in Narcos so it’s kinda hard to judge

[vapid owl]

And unbearable weight

[proven kiln]

THANK YOU. I'm gonna link you to the shitshow where I was being roasted for this opinion by like 6 different rubes in this channel

[vapid owl]

I've had that happen too

[digital mauve]

No one compares to Troy ngl give my man an Oscar

[proven kiln]

#1063545602723557566 message @dire island

[digital mauve]

As I said he’s got a big fan base 😂

[proven kiln]

then this one dude argued with me for a straight hour and didnt reveal until it was quitting time that he hadn't even PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME

[dire island]

So??

[vapid owl]

Also rant
Something that is significantly worse in the show is the environments. In the games the environments are stunningly beautiful and represent this hope rising up out of darkness. In the show it's just these drab landscapes and deserted cities that could be in any zombie show

[proven kiln]

when the entire conversation was COMPARING

[vapid owl]

The environments are almost a character that fit the story in the game

[digital mauve]

What’s in the link coz I’m not opening that 💀

[vapid owl]

In the show I feel that it's just there for the characters to stand around and talk in

[proven kiln]

yeah after replaying this PC port maxed to the gills on my 4k screen / 3080 Ti I am definitely getting that sense loud and clear

they rushed the show like crazy

[digital mauve]

I think they rushed the show I was mad at the pacing and stuff they left out

[vapid owl]

Its crazy cause it literally has GOT level budget

[proven kiln]

ya basic, that's so

[vapid owl]

Also man the cinematography sucks ass in this show

[digital mauve]

😂

[dire island]

That's ludicrous

[vapid owl]

The constant shaky cam is so bad

Nothing is ever still enough to be absorbed

[proven kiln]

John Woo haunts us again

John Woo ruined cinematography prove me wrong

[vapid owl]

Its like early breaking bad

[digital mauve]

Ngl this show wasn’t a 9/9.5 that I saw people giving it. It was more like an 8.0-8.5 for me

[proven kiln]

kinda off topic but still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ must watch

[vapid owl]

This might be harsh but I thought it was a 5

[digital mauve]

Out of 10?

[vapid owl]

Yes

[digital mauve]

LOL

[vapid owl]

Especially when compared to the games

[dire island]

Well it's all subjective but for me TloU was easily 9/10..

[digital mauve]

A 9 is like close to a masterpiece which I don’t think it was

[proven kiln]

I'm not gonna give it a rating in its entirety until I see how they manage part 2. But I give it 6/10 so far for casting Pedro Snore-cal

[digital mauve]

Lemme guess you don’t like Pedro Pascal

[vapid owl]

I just found the emotional core of the story to be significantly weaker. I felt attached to joel and ellie in the game in the first two hours. In the show I felt absolutely nothing aside from that one scene between Joel and Tommy

[proven kiln]

and Worm is totally right about the environments. They put minimal effort into that shit

[dire island]

I personally think it was, as someone who never played the game but watched the cut scenes here and there.. some episodes were better than the rest and the finale could have been fleshed out more but ya it's my favorite show of 2023 till now..

[proven kiln]

I don't dislike or like him, he's too boring for either.

[digital mauve]

It’s definitely the length, number of episodes and pacing that caused these issues

[proven kiln]

it's like saying "let me guess, you don't like freecell"

[vapid owl]

I think it was also Pedro being a bit stale

[digital mauve]

I guess if you’ve not played it, it makes sense

[vapid owl]

I liked him in other things like the mandalorian but i really don't care for his work here

[dire island]

Maybe but I know many others who played the game and love the show as well because it was nearly perfectly adapted

[vapid owl]

He just kinda has the same tone throughout the show

[vapid owl]

It was definitely not perfectly adapted

They made a point to change things

[dire island]

For majority it was

[digital mauve]

Also the lack of infected caused an issue of them not helping each other survive as much

[proven kiln]

Pedro didn't bring Joel out until the very end when he made the effort to portray how ||Ellie saved his soul||. Everything before was an extremely disappointingly short of Troy Baker

[vapid owl]

The quality is debatable of course but they set out to do something different without a doubt

[dire island]

And the things they changed from the game compared to the show was better like that 3rd episode was just incredible..

[vapid owl]

Bill being the most notable example

[digital mauve]

I think their goal was to flesh out the characters but imo didn’t do Joel & Ellie that much of a justice in the process

[vapid owl]

Agreed

100%

[proven kiln]

literally when I played the game and it skipped to 20 years later, just the way Joel carried himself in those first few moments of the game cinematic, my eyes were glittering like anime eyes.

[vapid owl]

This show felt like Niel Druckman trying out different drafts of side characters he wrote while making the first game

[digital mauve]

Joel & Ellie literally saved each other from death several times and surviving the infected and the stuff they went through made their bond stronger

The show didn’t have that

It was done to a minimum

[proven kiln]

it was nice but it was trite. Nothing ground breaking there. I didn't hate it but I wasn't like "OMFG THIS SHOW IS THE BEST" because of it

[dire island]

I thought that episode was a masterpiece

[proven kiln]

you don't watch much

[vapid owl]

I think the best example of how the show failed to fully develop Joel and Ellie was the scene with the magazine in the car

[dire island]

Ya, only watched more than 200 TV shows and currently watching around 6 TV shows..

[vapid owl]

Compare it to the game

[digital mauve]

I’ll be honest I didn’t like the 7th episode and the 3rd was complete filler aside from the last like 15 mins

[proven kiln]

any episode of any random season of "The Walking Dead" compares to ep 3 of LOU

[vapid owl]

Seeing Joel briefly open up in the game was very moving due to the cinematography, lighting, and acting from Troy

In the show its kinda

A dumb joke

[proven kiln]

what 6 tv shows are you watching right now?

[dire island]

Couldn't disagree with you more.. TWD was great first season but couldn't get past 3 seasons

[vapid owl]

Reminder that the best tv show is still the sopranos...

[proven kiln]

ah such patience for such a man of so many shows under your belt. I call bullshit on the over 200 tv shows and watching 6 right now.

[digital mauve]

They spent so much time on Bill in the 3rd episode where they could’ve given Joel & Elli more bonding time

[dire island]

Perry mason s02
Lucky hank s01
The mandalorian s03
Yellowjackets s02
Star trek Picard s03
Ted lasso s03

Recently binged the night agent on Netflix which was quite good

[vapid owl]

Agreed

[proven kiln]

best show of the '90s was ER, though. hard stop.

[dire island]

You don't need to believe me.. but I've watched that many shows

[vapid owl]

They attempt to have Bill parallel Joel but it doesn't work cause they forgot to develop Joel in the first place

[digital mauve]

And where was the scenes of Ellie trying to survive the infected trying to get medicine for Joel in ep7? No they focused on just Riley & Ellie which was a total snoozefest

[vapid owl]

You know what fair

[dire island]

What shows are you watching currently?

[digital mauve]

Real

[digital mauve]

Bro left 💀

[proven kiln]

I'm trying to watch the Resident but it's so over the fucking top it's difficult. I'm also watching "The Good Doctor" just because I think it's fascinating how David Shore thinks real people act like. But as far as shows I'm enjoying, nothing at the moment. I'm really struggling to find something good.

[vapid owl]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sopranos-tony-soprano-what-are-you-gonna-do-mafia-mob-gif-16012659

[dire island]

Something good?? There's so much good out there but of course not everything can be your taste

[proven kiln]

if it's actually good i've probably seen it

I've been NEET mode for all of COVID basically so

[dire island]

There are literally hundreds of new and old shows out there..

[proven kiln]

yeah I usually look for the old

[dire island]

So, what about Succession or yellowjackets or ted lasso??

[proven kiln]

did you guys ever see a BBC comedy called Ideal? criminally underrated

[digital mauve]

Watch Sons of Anarchy

[vapid owl]

My favorite comedy show is probably arrested development

[proven kiln]

also I thought "Peeky Blinders" was going to be shitty but it actually turned out to be somewhat of a masterpiece

[vapid owl]

The first 3 seasons exclusively

[digital mauve]

I repeat watch sons of anarchy

[proven kiln]

No thanks. I watched Justified recently, and I've had enough of that type of repetition for quite a while.

[dire island]

Heard a lot of good things about sons of anarchy

[digital mauve]

🗿

[digital mauve]

Great series

[dire island]

There's so much good new shows that I don't even have time to watch older shows these days and with April there's at least 4 more new ones

[proven kiln]

is it? is it really? or is it just another gangster show without much self awareness? I honestly don't know that many gangster shows that portray impact on the world stage (Peeky Blinders) or struggle with the existential questions of being a gangster (The Sopranos)

I'm going to place my bets on Sons of Anarchy fucking sucks. I'll watch it eventually because I really am getting to the bottom of the barrel, but my doubts are high

just a bunch of rednecks stabbing each other in the back like most vikings shows

[digital mauve]

Watch it or not, I just gave a recommendation

[proven kiln]

speaking of which "Vikings" (2013) is really the only Vikings show you need to watch if we're not counting Japanese stuff

@digital mauve alright, fair enough

i'm really trying to give Boardwalk Empire a chance right now but it's just sooo fucking boring. i feel like all the good parts have been shown to me in clips on youtube over the years

[dire island]

All we can do is give a recommendation based on our personal preference.. but again not everyone will enjoy it..

I mean there are people who couldn't get through Chernobyl of all series

[dire island]

I love Boardwalk empire.. watched it when it was airing at least the latter seasons, right up my alley as someone fascinated by US organised crime

[proven kiln]

I never watched Chernobyl because the instant critcisms of realism and such. But some people I respect have been talking highly of it so I'll give it a try. You know what film is severely underrated? "The Thin Red Line". I honestly think it's the best war film ever created. I'd almost go as far to say it's what "Apocalypse Now" should have been but I won't say that because they take place in different wars.

[dire island]

Chernobyl is a true masterpiece and its quite realistic too btw, of course not everything is 100% as its a drama and not a documentary.. but so compelling

Just 6 episodes as well

[proven kiln]

@dire island organized crime is boring, though. It's the same things happening over and over and over again. The Sopranos is good because it goes deep into sociopathy and the psychology of "the lifestyle" in general.

[dire island]

Well it fascinates me, from the godfather series to goodfellas to Casino and with Boardwalk empire, haven't had time to watch Sopranos though but I'm sure I will one day

Again.. so many interesting current shows to watch

[proven kiln]

lol "200 tv shows under my belt, havent had time to watch the greatest show ever though"

oh lord

ok i'm gonna finish this Australian/Western flick i've been putting off

have fun with nu-trek

also again: ER is the greatest medical drama ever made (yes, it's even better than Sherlock Holmes MD)

[dire island]

Gotta watch the Sopranos first to see that

[proven kiln]

also if i ever become dictator of the world i will outlaw all english dubbing in anime

all of it

[dire island]

Some I don't mind like Deathnote or Pokemon but ya, I hate watching any anime in English dubbs.. the live action foreign series and movies never

[proven kiln]

DB and DBZ is the one the most people are the most wrong about. They are truly clueless.

[dapper plank]

Strange to have seen Boardwalk Empire before Sopranos

[proven kiln]

oh yes I am sure he's got a very strange catalogue of things seen and not seen

[tame crag]

This Scarface "me against the world" guy must be the most obnoxious film bro I've ever seen 😂😂

Btw tlou2 story sucks and they're gonna do stuff differently, have an awful day 👀

[dapper plank]

I agree, TLoU2 story did suck

[proven kiln]

what exactly "sucked" about the story?

[potent nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-gta-sa-cj-gta-again-gif-20425950

[sick pawn]

LMAO

[short birch]

https://www.firstpost.com/world/last-of-us-step-by-step-story-of-how-an-indian-mushroom-hunter-became-first-victim-of-rare-fungal-silver-leaf-disease-12385902.html

Yo

What

[digital mauve]

Get that shit out my face

[small ravine]

Never opening this channel again

[dense coral]

https://tenor.com/view/stranger-things-fire-flame-gif-14920648

[whole summit]

I am excited for season 2 oh man no game has made me reflect and think as much as TLOU2

Most people just need to replay it and try to see it from Abby's perspective, avoid their bias towards ||Joel|| from their first play through

As far as I've seen, most people who didn't like it the first time who gave it a second chance changed their tune

[dapper plank]

No thanks I’ve played it twice, Abby’s story was just a rehash of Joel’s and it was all manipulative.

I am interested in season 2 though, to see what they change and if they can write it better

[whole summit]

"Write it better" as if your standards are what games attempt to achieve

Claiming Abby's story is just a rehash of Joel's is wilful ignorance and it was all manipulative how? Because it showed you another perspective?

[dapper plank]

My standards are all that matters to me, why would I care if someone else likes something if I didn’t

It’s not willful ignorance, it’s my opinion based on someone who played the game more than once

[whole summit]

By that logic if there's a movie you dislike that is considered fantastic to most other people you think that they should re-write it just for it to fit your likes and dislikes

[dapper plank]

I never said they should re-write to story to cater to my expectations

[whole summit]

And I too have played the game more than once but boiling down Abby's story to a "Joel rehash" is just as ridiculous as stating the game only preaches "Revenge is bad"

You literally did when you said that you hope they rewrite season 2 of the show better than the game even though it's considered one of the greatest game stories ever

"To see what they change and if they can write it better"

[dapper plank]

TLoU2 is literally one of the most mixed games ever made, you can’t say it’s some universally praised game

The first game was, not the second

[whole summit]

Except its really only the vocal minority that preaches that sentiment

You understand that the people that love the game arent review bombing it and leaving thousands of reviews to the extent that it's haters are

[dapper plank]

I don’t agree with that, most people I’ve seen either hated it or had serious issues with certain aspects

[whole summit]

Confirmation bias

I see loads of people praising it too

We both search for what we want to find

Though most criticisms of the game I've seen never elaborate and really repeat what they saw from their favourite youtubers

[dapper plank]

It’s okay to not like the story of a game

[whole summit]

Of course it is, but to channel your personal dislikes of the story into objective hatred of a game is not

[dapper plank]

I didn’t even hate the game, I hated the story

Loved the graphics, sound design and overall gameplay

[whole summit]

Because you personally didn't like it or because you think it's an objectively bad written story?

[dapper plank]

Both

[whole summit]

What did you think was bad about it objectively

When discussing objectivity you can only really critique structural elements and how well thematic ideas were gotten across as a whole not the story itself

[dapper plank]

It would literally take hours to break it down, overall the main issue I had was the butchering of the characters

[whole summit]

How were they butchered in your opinion

We don't have to talk about everything just the biggest issue then

[dapper plank]

I thought they were written as incompetent and inaccurate to their previous iterations

[whole summit]

Confused by incompetent? But also what do you mean by inaccurate to their previous iterations?

[dapper plank]

I believe they were written inaccurately for the sake of the story

[dapper plank]

From the first game

[whole summit]

I see what you're talking about but I just see it as character growth?

It's been 5 years, Joel has learned to trust more and acts more open as you see when he literally sings to Ellie

[dapper plank]

They make countless stupid mistakes that based on what we previously seen would never happen, plot armor for certain characters that wasn’t needed

[whole summit]

Ellie has fallen in love several times and made friends her own age they've all but forgotten the constant threat of survival as they did in the first game because they've grown and gotten comfortable

[dapper plank]

I viewed that as incompetent writing

[whole summit]

But why not view it as character growth?

That is supported by actual evidence in the game

[dapper plank]

Just like Joel and Tommy giving complete strangers tons of information without knowing who they are or why they are there

[whole summit]

They don't give them tons of information just their names and they live around here

But why wouldn't he? They've grown and learned to trust more and he just saved their lives you wouldn't expect them to kill you

[dapper plank]

Ellie and Dina being ambushed by a crew of enemies and the amount of times they should have been killed but weren’t

[whole summit]

The whole point of the first game was Joel transformed from traumatised in the beginning to learning to loge again

love and not be so closed off

[dapper plank]

Ellie killing dogs and Abby playing with them

[whole summit]

Ellie did it to survive and Abby is just another normal person why wouldn't she

[dapper plank]

Manipulative tactic to endear the character to the player and not do it organically

[whole summit]

Humans love animal companians

companions

[dapper plank]

The relationship between Lev & Abby is a rehash of Joel & Ellie

[whole summit]

How is Ellie killing dogs and Abby petting them manipulative

[dapper plank]

Because nobody wants to see dogs get massacred but everyone wants to pet a dog

[whole summit]

Yeah and how does that make you feel why is that bad

[dapper plank]

Which brings it back to square 1, the revenge is a fruitless endeaver story

[whole summit]

Ellie killed dogs to survive

So did Abby

[dapper plank]

No, she killed dogs to continue her path of revenge

[whole summit]

When they attacked her?

[dapper plank]

Are you trolling?

[whole summit]

No

I don't see why you're calling that manipulative

[dapper plank]

She wouldn’t have been there if she wasn’t hunting Abby, therefore it wasn’t a matter of self defense

[whole summit]

If someone attacks you at any moment and you defend yourself that's self defense

It's on you for getting into that situation of course

[dapper plank]

This conversation is getting nowhere

[whole summit]

Yes it is but why do you want it to end so bad

[dapper plank]

Because no matter what I say you’re not going to accept it

You have your opinion and I have mine

[whole summit]

You're not saying anything?!

You're not supposed to like everyone

You're not supposed to agree with everything

[dapper plank]

I gave you reasons as to why I didn’t like the story, you gave me reasons why you did

[whole summit]

But you're supposed to try to see their perspective

I see both sides of the story and I don't dislike anyone

[dapper plank]

And ultimately I think one side of the story is wrong and the other wasn’t

I viewed Abby as an unlikable character that hurt the story and the character I liked and wanted to see more of died in an illogical way too fast, that’s all that really matters

[whole summit]

Ellie's side literally started everything and Abby let Ellie live twice

After all of her friends were killed and she still chose mercy

[dapper plank]

In my option we have to go back earlier than the events of TLoU2 to debate that

The point where Joel kills Abby’s father to save Ellie

[whole summit]

Exactly initiating the whole events of the second game

So Abby was just getting revenge like Ellie was, she's not any worse of a person than Ellie

[dapper plank]

Which is a shitty story

[whole summit]

Except it touches on much more than just that, trauma, revenge, inner violence, forgiveness civilisations, xenophobia transphobia, religion etc

[dapper plank]

The first game basically did all that but better

[whole summit]

Okay that is blatantly untrue

It simply did not have the depth that the second game does with certain topics and doesn't even touch on many of them

[dapper plank]

I don’t agree at all

The first game was far more emotionally effective for me

[whole summit]

Because it told the story you wanted

And you can't disagree on topics straight up not even showing up in the first game

[dapper plank]

We can’t skip over the fact that the main plot point of TLoU2 was leaked before the game even came out

That drastically changed how people felt about it

[whole summit]

It might be the main plot point but it's far from the most important

[dapper plank]

I’m one of the people who don’t look at what Joel did as wrong, if you really analyze it there’s no reason to believe Ellie would have been the cure

[whole summit]

Except she would have been the cure that's the whole reason the game ends on such an interesting note

The developers confirmed jt

[dapper plank]

It doesn’t matter if they confirm it, the logic isn’t there

That’s just an excuse to further the narrative

How are you going to cure a clicker, a bloater?

[whole summit]

That's not what the cure is for its not to bring the dead bsck to life it's to stop the living from turning

No cure even in real life brings the dead bsck to life

[dapper plank]

I don’t believe they had anywhere near the manpower or resources to even remotely distribute a cure

[whole summit]

It wouldn't have happened overnight

And you're just speculating now, "What if?" "What if?"

[dapper plank]

And even if they did it was just be fought over and hoarded like any other resource in a world full of hostile people who won’t even consider talking things out

[whole summit]

There would still be a cure

[dapper plank]

The cure was just a fantasy, in the live action series it’s even more blatantly obvious

[whole summit]

There would have been a cure and I still don't think what Joel did was wrong from his perspective

[dapper plank]

The greatest scientific minds in the civilized world were called to examine the virus and they had no answer for it, you honestly believe 20 years later with no real doctors or technology left they could have pulled it off?

[whole summit]

But I understand how people from other perspectives would think it is

[whole summit]

It's a story and they say it would, also they have their 20+ years of experience experimenting and dealing with it

What the greatest minds of an old world did not have

[dapper plank]

Idk, there’s nothing to convince me they could have actually did it

[whole summit]

Sounds just like you want to hate the second game and are coming up with excuses to do so

Rather than even considering its a multi faceted story with right and wrong being blurred

[dapper plank]

Sure they wanted to, they tried to but probably would have gotten nowhere after all the in-game collectibles stated that tons of previous experiments failed

[whole summit]

There is no interesting narrative at all in The Last Of Us 1 if the cure would not have worked

Joel just takes her somewhere then saves her from killers there is no morally gray ending if the cure wouldn't have worked

[dapper plank]

The cure working or not is the entire reason for debate.

[whole summit]

No it's not

[dapper plank]

Yes because if the cure didn’t work, Joel didn’t do anything wrong

And based on everything I just said there’s no reason to believe that

[whole summit]

It's just up for debate by people who dont want to believe it would've so they can continue to like a character that no ones forcing them to like because you sre allowed to like someone and disagree with their actions

[dapper plank]

Lmao

[whole summit]

There is no rule stating that the person you like needs to only make correct decisions

[dapper plank]

Well again it’s an opinion

Some thought he did the right thing, others don’t

[whole summit]

And you can apply either of those opinions to the cure working

[dapper plank]

Again fantasy land

It’s not practical

[whole summit]

Thinking he did the right thing saving Ellie doesn't automatically mean that you believe it's right because the cure wouldn't have worked

Perhaps it's right just because one person doesn't have to die for the sake of the many

[dapper plank]

The firefly’s were the only organization looking for a cure, everyone else either gave up or didn’t have the resources to do it

You think they would have distributed the cure to FEDRA, hunters and cannibals?

[whole summit]

You're just speculating again based on nothing

The cure would still save lives

[dapper plank]

Realistically, maybe a few hundred at most

[whole summit]

And over years if they actively did hand it out?