#Is the distributive propriety an axiom?

26 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mellow violet
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Hello! I've been hearing that the distributive propriety is an axiom. Why? Is a geometric derivation for real numbers not rigorous enough?
This is a question I'd like to know the answer

wanton coralBOT
hoary shell
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what exactly do you mean by this?

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if you're asking about i.e. the peano axioms, it's that

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if you're working in the foundations of mathematics, you might ask i.e. "what is a set?"

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intuitively people had this notion that a set was just "a collection of objects"

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but russel's paradox means you can't define a set like that

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so like intuitively, the natural numbers definitely should exist

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ZFC provides a framework (and says natural numbers exist)

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it turns out that once you know natural numbers exist, you can construct the integers from the naturals, the rationals from the integers, the reals from the rationals etc.

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so you only need to know that natural numbers exist

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but this is more for foundational mathematics

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if you don't work in foundational mathematics and for example you work with fields/rings

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one of the axioms of a field/ring is the distributivity property

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so distributivity is an axiom

hoary shell
mellow violet
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At least it works with arithmetic (I think)

hoary shell
mellow violet
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This is what I thought

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So, even it has a "proof", but is not rigorous enough, right?

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According to the Gödel's theorems, there's "infinite axioms", right? I've searched some stuff about it and some guys said that (at least as I've understood it) there are fields of math that there's "infinite axioms" and fields that not

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Some of these "infinite axioms" have non-rigorous "proofs" like this one above? Because, for me, saying that a(b+c)=ab+ac is truth, memorize it and that's the end is completely different of saying "this proof, although it's not rigorous, give us an intuition of this fact". I like to accept facts when they are intuitive.

viral oxide
viral oxide
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Here's a little example where intuition can counter truth
https://youtu.be/851U557j6HE?si=w5bva8vFGNZndwUx

A pattern of integrals that all equal pi...until they don't.
Next video on convolutions: https://youtu.be/KuXjwB4LzSA
John Baez has a really fun article about this: https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2018/09/20/patterns-that-eventually-fail/

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mellow violet
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Thanks!