#help-23
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Actually a lot of that doesn't make sense. Where did 12^x come from in second to last line.
what is 2*6?
Yes
Distribute
2x * 6x = 12x^2? no?
There is no powers of x in that entire question so it makes no sense that 12^x would ever be a term
What you said is right purple don't worry
Hmmm
so 12x^2 is right?
I'm just not sure what is going on in that working out
what? that is right
Yes that's right it's not what I'm talking about.
Just that working out at the beginning is wrong
you're confusing
The initial working out that you are confused about is wrong purple.
Lmao guys chill you're making my head hurt lol
what is the beginning of the problem? like what is starting point?
Which part specifically?
2+2x(2(3x+2)+2)
??
Yes
or is there something before ?
No this is the start
Just to simplify
Mostly in the transition from 3rd last to 2nd last line of working.
this 2+(12x^2+12x)?
Ahhh guys my bad
Is the + supposed be = ? becasue you can't really divide 2 in this case if it was a +
Ohh ok.
But still I dont understand why this
Do you have the textbook or something where it came from because it's still a bit hard to understand
If it's put equal to 0 then you can divide by 2
But otherwise it makes no sense
Because if you divide 2 you can simplify it to the right answer
It's from this website https://www.storyofmathematics.com/simplifying-expressions/
Simplifying Expressions ā Explanation & Examples Learning how to simplify an expression is the most important step in understanding and mastering algebra. Simplification of expressions is a handy mathematics skill because it allows us to change complex or awkward expressions into simpler and compact forms. But before that, we must know what an a...
example 2
But why does this work?
This expression can be simplified by dividing each term by 2 as;
Which rule is being applied?
Damn my bad I should learn how to read
I still don't understand why everything is being divided by 2 though
" In mathematics, simply or simplification is reducing the expression/fraction/problem in a simpler form. It makes the problem easy with calculations and solving."
So if your goal is to simply then you do whatever you can do make it more simpler
So in this case, dividng by 2 makes it better than 2 + 12x 2 + 12x
2 + 12x 2 + 12x becomes 6x^2+6x+1 which is easier to do if you have to use the quadratic equation
Actually I'm going to have to somewhat disagree unfortunately. Symbolab and wolfram alpha keep a factor of 2 outside brackets.
Try it on both and yes they divide by 2 to simplify but they keep the final answer as 2(6x^2+6x+1)
So I'm guessing the divided all terms by 2 and then kept the factor of 2 there so it stays the same?
I have no clue what im talking about though
But it is becoming clearer
That is the only way it makes sense but the website doesn't keep the factor. I am actually unsure about what the website is doing...
You mean the website I linked to?
Or symbolab/wolfram?
Yeah.. maybe killer can explain it to me better but I'm working through y12 and this shouldn't be something I'm failing.
If I'm wrong
So from the website you showed me it the part where it says, "Now eliminate the parentheses by multiplying any number outside it;" that is where hydro is taking about. The final answer is 2(6x^2+6x+1). The expression itself can be simplify to 6 x^2 + 6x + 1 and that is where the 2 comes from (12x^2/2 + 12x/2 + 2/2)
Yeah, I get that but here's my confusion. For an equation equal to 0, so for example 12x^2+12x+2 = 0, you can divide both sides by 2 easily. If you have an expression though, like 12x^2+12x+2, dividing by 2 gives you a different expression totally.
Thats what I thought was strange about it. It's like they were just halving it
As you can see from desmos, 12x^2+12x+2 and 6x^2 +6x+1 are completely different expressions however they do have identical x intercepts. So the solutions are the same but substituting values of x give different values of y. What is wrong with my logic killer?
Ahh, based on the graph I see. Gotcha. Yeah, I guess is not totally worth simplifying then. I guess it will depend on the teacher
This is a really unsatisfying conclusion
I actually think the website is objectively poorly worded, where did you find it @livid sparrow
If it's official then maybe I'm just thinking about this wrong, but otherwise I think they could improve wording...
Just google. Do you have any other resources you would recommend?
Khan academy is a good one
What would I search on there to find this?
Simplification of expressions or simplification of equations
Alright
Thanks for the help fellas, appreciate it
Honestly though you seem to understand it fine and just got tripped up by the website which would have happened to me too.
It seems multiple websites have the same example tho
I will ask my mentor about this tho. It seems interesting
Can you show me the other website with that example?
I'm guessing they have it as an equation not an expression but maybe not.
I'm pretty new to it really. It's been 8 years since I've studied any math. I'm just self learning because I find it interesting. I didn't even know it was called a polynomial. There are huge gaps in my knowledge
A polynomial is just an expression with 2 or more terms.
Algebraic expression to be specific
I assume you live in the US right?
Nope, New Zealand
I use the Australian mathematical curriculum textbooks
I could probably find those here
College Algebra by Robert F. Blitzer . You might have a good luck finding it online but its an amazing book with good explanation
I'll check it out, thank you
Anytime!
Haese mathematics is the author of the Australian official textbooks.
If you want, I can create a group chat here. If Hydro is fine with it. There you can ask all the questions you need. Good to see people come back to math after years.
If you go to haesemathematics.com that has yrs1-12 of Australian math curriculum including specialist pathways.
I'm fine with it 100%
https://www.haesemathematics.com/ that has the aus textbooks
Just added you both
Will definitely have a look at this, thanks
š I'll try not to pester you too much!
You're fine! You are actually motivating me to teach again. I am hoping to get my masters in math soon! I am taking a break from school now and just enjoying life. But man I do miss helping people out. I was a TA for calculus 2 in grad school for one semester but didn't do well in my classes so I had to leave.
I taught it last year so not quite a break from school.
Nice man, glad to have someone knowledgeable on my contact list
Having someone explain things can be really helpful
You guys want to make a group chat?
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W_n are usually already column vectors
That's awkward phrasing
R^n exists outside the scope of W_n
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Is there a difference between saying perpendicular vs orthogonal or is it just semantics?
I have seen some people divided on it online
depends on the context
kinda the same thing, but I use "perpendicular" for lines and orthogonal for vectors
perpendicular is orthogonal in planar geometry
orthogonal isnt perpendicular necesarily in spatial geometry
orthogonal is best suited for vectors
yes agreed
and when reffering to orthogonal matricies you cant say perpendicular matricies
perpendicular is a geometry term
even in geometry it's not quite the same
perpendicular is just that perpendicular
orthogonal involves perpendiculars but isnt necesarily perpendicular on its own
for example ?
orthogonal projections in 3d space
the segment projected isnt perpendicular on the plane
but the ends of it that determine the projections are
if it was it would just be a point
a contradictory example would br orthodiagonal quadrilateral which by definition have perpendicular diagonals
@lean otter Has your question been resolved?
Will keep this channel open for you guys to discuss about it lol
huh, when you project a segment on a plane, you project each point of the segment on the the plane and thats the line that goes through a point on a segment and the plane which is perpendicular. Thats why its called orthogonal projection
or did I miss something
The projection of the segment isnt perpendicular to the segment itself of course
@lean otter Has your question been resolved?
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found out d²y/dx² but cant prove = 0
whats ur dy/dx value
-sin theta / (1+ cos theta)
@proven zephyr Has your question been resolved?
<@&286206848099549185>
nvm i got it i forgot to multiply by dĪø/dx when taking the higher derivative
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$\int \tan^5 \theta d\theta$
NEONPerseus
How do I even start man :/
god what kind of integral homework do you have
Ah welcome back
yeah lol
My teacher said the x^5 one was too hard and they assigned it as a joke š
They said that this was within scope though
So...
hmm
I know there exists a reduction formula for tangent but can't use it at school
oh sad
thought of that exactly lmao
like you cant use sec²x-1 = -tan²x
1
sorry
yeah but u said the formula is off bounds
thats what i thought you meant
you can square the ahole thing to get tanā“x
$\int \tan^m x dx = \frac{\tan^{m - 1} x}{m - 1} + \int \tan^{m - 2} x dx$
NEONPerseus
This is the reduction formula
its fun yeah
anyways i believe you can work with that identity
lets see what that does
NEONPerseus
how the heck do u use that tho i gebiuanely dont know
yeah i think thats right
like the bot
$\int (1 - \sec^2 \theta)\tan \theta d\theta$
NEONPerseus
So secant squared is u
$$\sec^2 \theta = u$$ $$2\sec^2 \theta \tan \theta d\theta = du$$
NEONPerseus
$d \theta = \frac{du}{2u\tan\theta}$
NEONPerseus
mhm
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hello
the answerās (-infinity,-3)U(9,infinity)
however none of these seem to represent the correct answer
ši just need someone to confirm tht wat i did is correct
what did you do? š¤
divide bith sides by 2
then set two possibilities
3x-9>18 then x=9
3x-9<-18 , x=-3
Yeah
oh okay
For example R - [-3,9] would be correct for this inequality
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so i have to show this identity step by step but i am confused how i would write the first part in the gauĆ formula
for e.g. this is understandable:
but with n+1 and v=1 i'm confused how it becomes (n+1)(n+2)/2
@elfin cove Has your question been resolved?
I probably won't be much help cause 1. I'm dookie at maths 2. 12 am
Probably perform an index shift
after doing that use the commutativity and associativity property
Index Shift: \[\sum^t_{n=s}[f(n)]=\sum^{t+p}_{n=s+p}[f(n-p)]\]
Commutativity and Associativity: \[\sum^t_{n=s}[f(n)]\pm\sum^t_{n=s}[g(n)]=\sum^t_{n=s}[f(n)\pm g(n)]\]
sadly i never heard of the index shift š„²
and the thing is my prof skipped this part [induction] in uni whysoever
damn don't you learn mathematical induction during highschool
but it's not like i listened anyway
Basically induction is just tryna prove some formula works for all natural numbers
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The simplest and most common form of mathematical induction infers that a statement involving a natural number \(n\) (that is \(n\in\mathbb Z\geq0\lor 1\) holds \(\forall n\). The proof consists of two steps:
\begin{enumerate}
\item The \textbf{base case} (Synonym: \textbf{initial case}): prove that the statement holds for \(0\lor 1\) or both.
\item The \textbf{induction step} (Synonyms: \textbf{inductive step}, or \textbf{step case}): prove that \(\forall n\), if the statement holds for \(n\), then it holds for \(n+1\). In other words, assume that the statement holds for some arbitrary \(n\in\mathbb N\), and prove that the statement holds for \(n+1\).
\end{enumerate}
The hypothesis in the induction step, that the statement holds for a particular \(n\), is called the \textbf{induction hypothesis} or \textbf{inductive hypothesis}. To prove the induction step, one assumes the induction hypothesis for \(n\) and then uses this assumption to prove that the statement holds for \(n+1\). \\~\\
Authors who prefer to define natural numbers to begin at \(0\) use that value in the base case; those who define natural numbers to begin at \(1\) use that value.
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What is the inclusion exclusion formula for n(A and not B
so n(A and B with a line on top )?
sorry how would i do n(A and not B and not C)>
?*
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How do I do this question ?
When I try to get the area while using an integration of the equation, I get the result as 3/2
What was ur integration equation
This
I checked it using the calculator too
Notice how part of ur curve goes under the x-axis
No need to apologize. Yes it does, it adds the areas above the x-axis and subtracts from it the areas underneath the x-axis
But we just want a sum of everything shaded
Yea
Try manipulating ur bounds on the integral, u will be using 3 integrals, 1 for the first area above the x axis , the next for the area under the x axis, and one finally for the last area above the x axis
Alright
Iāll try and let you know
Sounds good
Well I tried it and it doesnāt work
I basically took the integral of x^2 -3x +2 (which is [x^3]/ 3 - [3x^2]/2 + 2x
Then I equated it to a function which I called f(x)
Then I did the following
f(1) -f(0) + f(2) - f(1) + f(3) - f(2)
which results in my answer being 3/2
What did u get for the f(2)-f(1)
-1/6
Thereās ur problem
Ahhh
Thatās the area under the x axis
I see
So take abs value of it, and add it to the other values
By doing this, itās the same thing as integrating from 0 to 3 straight
Which woulda worked if there was an absolute value around the f(2) - f(1)
Now I get 19/6
f(0) = 0
f(1) = 5/6
f(2) = 2/3
f(3) = 3/2
So 5/6 + 1/6 + 3/2 - 2/3
= 11/6
Ohhh okay
Thanks
One more thing
Isnāt there a way to find the area of a curve for a specific range without considering whether the curve dips below the x axis or not ?
Iām not sure Iām understanding
So the area under the curve above and below the x-axis added together?
All as positive ur asking?
@orchid wave Has your question been resolved?
Yes
Basically yea
@orchid wave Has your question been resolved?
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Could anybody explain what I'm doing wrong? I checked wolfram alpha and synolab, and both say that it's 1/sqrt(2x-1) but I'm not quite sure how do they get to that solution as there is 1/2
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help
You could write as
a+0.5b=p
b+0.5c=p
c+0.5a=p
and solve the equation, I believe?
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The 2nd one
@lean rover Has your question been resolved?
What exactly are you stuck on?
also, with 2nd, do you mean ii, (b) or the entire 2. task?
Iām not even sure what question 2 is asking
In mathematics and particularly in algebra, a linear or nonlinear system of equations is called consistent if there is at least one set of values for the unknowns that satisfies each equation in the systemāthat is, when substituted into each of the equations, they make each equation hold true as an identity. In contrast, a linear or non linear equation system is called inconsistent if there is no set of values for the unknowns that satisfies all of the equations.
Stolen from wikipedia
tl;dr, is it possible to solve them
Not A
no, cramers rule was the first task
here you can prove very fast that this is not a possible equation
Yh and my teacher wants us to use matrices as that is what the modules is about
We unfortunately canāt use any other ways
Well then write it like that
i) 2 -3 8
ii) 4 -6 9
you can multiple i) with 2 to find out that its not possible
Hold on let me do it quickly with the way my teacher told me to do it give me 1 second
sure, and can you send an example so I know how to explain better?
What do you mean
I know the determinant has to not equal Zero
For Cramer rule to be applicable
Is that my answer
Probably not since it talk about consistency
Yh
Since D=0, you know that its not solvable for any numbers, meaning its just not consistant
Which this does not satisfy
Yh so I say not consistent because Cramer rules needs Dā 0
Yupp
I think you could've stopped after the first line, finding out that D=0 and Dx!=0 means its not solvable
Yh
I donāt know why I continued but yh
Is the same for B
tbh when we did cramers rule we always simplified first so our divisions in the end weren't that big, but I guess you have to do it this way
Yh my teachers we quite adamant on us doing it this way
May I ask for help on another question?
sure
A
I havenāt really done much studying on so it maybe be best I learn to do it
What is question A called so I can watching some videos on before asking you as it maybe easier on you
What do you mean called?
The topic
Well, since you know you have to use cramers rule, its cramers rule
3A?
I believe?
Ah not an issue
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<@&286206848099549185>
@tawdry hornet Has your question been resolved?
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i need someone to help me with these 2 worksheets
general note: dont expect people to download random files to help you
i can stream it
im not good at showing my work so i need someone to help me with that
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What's giving you issue?
The -29.29. I think that would mean there is a decrease of sometime? I just donāt know where
I was thinking B but not sure
-29.29 is the y-intercept
Yes
It's the estimated value of Y when you set X=0
Okay :/ I donāt really understand
What don't you understand?
The negative does not matter then?
The negative makes me think that it will be a negative relationship
I wouldn't say it doesn't matter
Does it make sense for a donation rate to be negative?
No but some of the answers say that the college would be expecting fewer alumni to donate, not that there would be negative donations I think?
Well I'm trying to illustrate what the -29.29 represents
I think the Answer is A I just donāt understand what -29.29 is
I know it is Y
But like what does the number come from/what is is representing
It's this
That I donāt understand
An important concept in regression is the idea of a relevant range
There's a relevant range on the output (it must be in [0,1]) and there's one on the input (SAT scores have bounds)
However, a line is continuous for all real numbers, and thus it has to have a y-intercept if it has finite slope
So while it may physically be nonsense (a donation proportion of -29.29% makes no sense), it needs to exist for the regression line to be an actual line
Y is the donation percentage
Yes I thought -29.29 is Y?
We're estimating Y through Yhat = -29.29 + 0.05X
What is -29.29 then
It's the y-intercept
I know but what is it for, donation, score, etc?
It's the value of Y when X=0
That is part I do not get
So the donation percentage when we look at SAT scores of 0
If an SAT is 0, the donation is -29.29?
Yes
Yes
Thank you!
Np
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Hi, i understand case 1 and 2, but how did they get 4C1 in case 3?
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Need help proving for n > 16, Ļ(16) < n -4 where Ļ is the eulur toitent function
Please don't occupy multiple help channels.
woops leftthe other help channel
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How do I get the equation x^5-k=0 to equal the iterative formula shown in the picture.
I've found the derivative to be 5x^4
and the Newton Raphson Formula is xn+1 = xn - f(x)/f'(x)
but i still can get the answer
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Simplify: -12/25+3/-5-1/15
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How do you find the inverse of this exponential (and logs) function?
Can you show me all the steps
I thought you had to
like replace 2x by a
Swap the x and y
You are saying.. 4x = a?
You move 4 to the other side
a=-4x right
but we re not done
lets replace a by its value
2^y = -4x
now we can apply log 2 on both sides
wdym?
if you have
-2/4
you only have to count opne of them as negative
because if its negative divided by negative
the result is positive
it doesnt matter which
like here it could be -2^y = 4x
you just have to multiply by -1 on both sides
to see its the same
So it doesnāt matter?
yeah
Wouldnāt that be log-2(4x)??
log -2 doesnt exist
but this is true
i'm not sure if you dont understand the algebra i did before
or the log thing
I literally just learned logarithms like a week ago
yeah but for now
if you ignore the next part
which is taking a log
there shouldnt be any confusion
You need log to inverse an exponential donāt you though?
yeah
ln
or log base e
is the inverse of the exponential function
and log base a
is defined as
log_a(x) = ln(x)/ln(a)
and log_a is the inverse of a^x
Ok
we were at -2^y = 4x
Right
you could apply log2 directly here
but to be sure about things
and not make a mistake in general
its better to have the power isolated
If it was 2y instead of -2y, would it still be log2
it would
but as i said
the best practice if you are starting with logs
is to isolate 2^y completely
so multiply on both sides by -1
4x and -2y�
yeah
I multiplied both
2^y =-4x
Ok
Yea thatās the right answer
and if you know rules about logarithm
you can simplify
what is the log of a product?
log(a*b) =log(a)+log(b)
I know almost nothing on logs
This is the right one
Can you do one rq?
also maybe you need to be careful about the domain
Domain??
since we are talkiung about a function
Like the X axis stuff
basically the domain of the inverse is the same as the rangez of the original funciton
function*
so here its non positive numbers
Cool
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hi can someone help me with a proof
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what is $x * x$
cantprogram
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How exactly do I factorise this expression?
to make it easier to understand let n= (y+1)
so it looks like n^2 - 4n
@fiery tree
Yupp makes sense
alg
uh then where do I go from there š
er I've got the answer here from my homework site and I'm not quite following, I'm just stuck on the method and the steps of the problem
Still a lil confused š
then you have to substitute (y+1) back into n
from n(n-4) you get ((y+1)(n-3)
MAKES SENSE
Ahhh
sry for caps
Yup I've got the hang on it now I think
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Hello guys
I am not sure what the question is asking in this problem am I just need to take the derative of the function twice
Or do I need to find the anti deravativr#e
<@&286206848099549185>
for f''(x)=12+3e^x, you want to find the second antiderivative
yup
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can someone verify my answers to see if theyāre correct š
i think that was a typo
itās supposed to be 4
bc in our worksheets we used 33
yeah i mean 1-7 seems fine if u managed to figure out the formula
which seems like u did
well it just means that
as t increases, v decreases
and as d increases, v increases
reverse is true too
so what do u think it is? @austere kestrel
mm going over them, i am kind of doing it in my head doe so might not be completely right proofreading
not sure what 11 is asking for
alright alright iāll see tomorrow
Iāve already reviewed everything
tysm š„°
yeah i went over it
it seems correct for the most part, even if u did something wrong, it is probably something minimal i didn't notice
good job
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why is 1/2?
the permutations in which z comes before a can be matched up one to one with the ones in which z comes after a
Can you please do an example?
For a given permutation in which z preceds a, there exists a permutation with all the letters at the same position but that of z and a interchanged
permutation in which z preceds a = 24! ?
permutation with all the letters at the same position but that of z and a interchanged = 1?
<@&286206848099549185>
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When is the algebraic multiplicity greater than the geometric multiplicity for an eigen vector
what's the intuition
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Where did the 4/3 come from
volume formula
hmmm i think if you are asking for its derivation, integrating using disk method is what i can think of
but i bet thats not what you are looking for haha
big A š
ive always wondered where the volume for a sphere is derived from
can really only think of cross sections
same tbh
pythagoras?
Bro i rly donāt remember anything from algššš
Tysm
Wow this was embroiled
Embarrassing
calculus be like: i forgor š
real
also never said it, but cultured kel enjoyer šš» @vestal sedge
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ty ty
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Is this just finding the derivative of the function or is there more to it?
finding derivative and settings x to 1
yeah
f'(1) = f'(x = 1)
So whatever I find for the derivative of the function, I set it equal to 1?
no you sub x = 1
So I find the derivative of 1^20e^1?
no
differentiate first
and in the derivative sub x = 1
thanks!
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I have a packing problem where I want to find an optimal layout for maximizing the number of nodes in a 3D grid where the rule is that nodes should be within a taxicab distance of at least 5 of each other. Any idea how to go about it? And do you expect that for this distance it's intractable?
Yes, I feel like it should be some way to find it. In one dimension, the repeating pattern has 2 nodes, for 2D it has 4 nodes. I am assuming I need a pattern of 8 nodes.
The only way I can think of solving this problem is to maybe brute force it but... That's probably not a good idea.
(I have zero experience with packing, maybe there are better approaches.)
How does one even prove what the optimal packing is other than going through all permutations?
so like "the lattice generated by the vectors (2/3,1,1/3), (ā1/3,ā2/3,1), and (ā1,1/3,ā2/3)" may mean you;re right, it's a pattern of 4 nodes
i don't know
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help pls
whats the question?
@compact ledge Has your question been resolved?
Oh nvm
so you figured it out yourself?
yes
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factorize the insides of the cuberoots to find things you can pull out of them
yes and yes
ok
then what do I do
so its 3*2
and a 2 stays on the inside
for the first one would it be 6 3sqrt2^2
correct, what about the second term?
-15 3sqrt 4
then would i just simplify the numbers on the outside of sqrt since the numbers in the square root are the same
so final answer -9 3sqrt4
also it's cube root, if you keep calling it square root it might lead to some issues eventually
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Hi, how do I do linear extrapolation?
I have one point which is x0=1 and I have the function f(x)=x^3
I need to find the approximation at f(x) when x = 1.01
is it just f(x0) = 3 and since x0=1 then we can have g=0.01 and then that would be 0.01*x0
1.03?
Are u talking about linearization?
Ig that's the same name
I have a general question. Is the Jacobian matrix thought of as a linear transformation that changes the unit basis vectors at each point in space to create a new coordinate plane?
Anyways @fierce stirrup
where those unit vectors may or may not be "similar" at each point
L(x) = f(a) + f'(a)(x-a)
Take a = 1
@lean otter #āhow-to-get-help
so L(1.01) = f(1) + f'(1)(1.01-1)
So I got L(1.01) = 3 + 3(0.01)
which is 3.01
3.03
Yeah I mean
Approximate enough
Linearization is just first order Taylor series but thats a spoiler for the future 
Oh lol
I'm going to watch the recorded lecture for this, hopefully it is helpful, if not I'll be back š
thanks for the help
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For part B itās the same steps as part A?
But how would the line y = -1/2x change this equation formula wise
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Doing rational root theorem. If the problem in question has no trailing coefficient (shouldnāt be a x term) what do I do?
Please don't occupy multiple help channels.
well, if the coefficient is 0 you can factor out x from each of the terms and obtain a smaller polynomial with a constant coefficient
can you express this with an example
Iām trash without an example for it usually just words donāt work for me
like in the context of above what should I try to do
for example:
a polynomial x^3-5x^2+6x
as there are no constant coefficient, you can factorise x from each of the terms to get
x(x^2-5x+6)
notice how you now have a polynomial of degree 2 with a constant coefficient inside the brackets
final question what should I do when after synthetic division there is 4 terms
Bottom question
Past the squiggly line
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I'm so
I'm so stuck on this shit $$(P \land R) \lor [ \neg R \land (P \lor Q)]$$ $$[(P \land R) \lor (\neg R \land P) \lor (\neg R \land Q)]$$
studying lang calculus
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Help me
@lean otter Has your question been resolved?
I need help
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So our math teachers decieded to ruin our week by telling us to explain a picture using ratio, fractions, probability, and rates
just put a picture of a piechart lol
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i mean
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I've asked this before but I only know how to prove it for a chosen n, not all.. here it is again:\
\
Let $A \subseteq \mathbb{R}$ be nonempty and bounded. Show that there are monotone sequences $(a_n){n\in \mathbb{N}}$ and $(b_n){n\in \mathbb{N}}$ with $a_n, b_n \in A$ for all $ n \in \mathbb{N}$ with
$$
\lim \limits_{x \to \infty} a_n \text{ sup}A \quad \text{ and } \quad \lim \limits_{x \to \infty} b_n \text{ inf}A
$$
Levens
did you understand what i wrote before?
yeah not really.. i didnt quite understand how that squeeze theorem was connected to that one line youve written.. wait let me look it up
here it is
also, idk if im even allowed to use that squeeze theorem, if we havent addressed it yet in our lectures
can you at least see why (a_n) converges to sup A?
where would i see that?
like even if you don't have proof yet
you mean by looking at the question?
just from looking at the way i constructed the sequence
basically "do you understand why it should work"
no actually
ye
the sequence (a_n) whatever it is will satisfy
1 - 1/1 <= a_1 <= 1
1 - 1/2 <= a_2 <= 1
1 - 1/3 <= a_3 <= 1
1 - 1/4 <= a_4 <= 1
and so on
do you see why those conditions force it to converge to 1?
okay i see that
so does it sounds promising that (a_n) converges to sup A?
yeah, if it's monotonically increasing
where $a_n < a_{n+1}$
well actually no, (a_n) converges to sup A regardless of that
Levens
then shouldnt it be the same for any b_n?
no need for monotonic
the question requires them to be monotone
but it doesnt say whether theyre increasing or decreasing
yea
yea
so why wouldnt this apply for b_n
wdym?
you don't have this if you replace sup A with inf A
what do you have instead? infA + (1/n) >= b_n >= infA?
sure
how did you come up with that tho
idk, i think i had this exact same problem once without the monotone requirement