serious-discussion

[vivid halo]

I can't really say more without seeing a particular curve you're interested in

there are loads of methods for finding rational points on certain curves, and they sometimes work

[wanton shoal]

clearly x=y works.

[vivid halo]

there's no general method

[wanton shoal]

I know

[compact tartan]

the answer to my problem is either cos pi b = 1 (cyclic), cos pi b = -1 (dihedral), or cos pi b = +- sqrt2/2 (octahedral)

[wanton shoal]

there are loads of methods for finding rational points on certain curves
Please tell because I can't find any

[compact tartan]

or something like that anyway

[vivid halo]

check out Poonen's book on rational points on curves

[compact tartan]

this is classifying a particular class of finite subgroups of SU(2)

[wanton shoal]

My attention span is very short there is no way im making it through over 2 pages of this

[vivid halo]

okay then uhhh

you're probably unprepared for this topic

[wanton shoal]

I am very good at problem solving and that kind of mathematics but stuff like this just bores me

I bet I could understand it if I actually read it but man this is not gonna be fun

[compact tartan]

ah so you don't like to do some actual work to get a result

[wanton shoal]

If I was just given a bunch of equations and their derivations I would understand but this I just can't do.

[wanton shoal]

no I just like problem solving

[compact tartan]

a lot of problems in mathematics can be stated in a much more simple way than the way they are solved

[wanton shoal]

I see math as just one big difficult puzzle game

and I really can't stand big blocks of text explaining stuff

[compact tartan]

puzzle games usually come with game design and in particular a difficulty curve

math is not like that

[wanton shoal]

I know I know I just couldn't find a better analogy with why I like math

because I really do just like the problem solving aspect

figuring things out is basically the only part of math I like, and honestly I thought that's all it was.

[compact tartan]

ask a question similar to yours about cubics (the question is really rather elementary) and suddenly the entire field of elliptic curve theory and modern cryptography pops up

[compact tartan]

a lot of math is introducing new abstractions and reformulating the problem in terms of those abstraactions

[wanton shoal]

augh abstractions. Don't like those.

don't fully understand what they are really

[compact tartan]

you might like analysis

[wanton shoal]

"analysis" has a lot of meanings...

[compact tartan]

mathematical analysis

[wanton shoal]

what are we analyzing?

hold on im going to have to google the definition of analyze.

[compact tartan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_analysis

[wanton shoal]

yeah thats basically the only part of math I've touched

[lament flicker]

real analysis is calculus for adults

[wanton shoal]

don't like going out from that

[wanton shoal]

Well I'm not an adult.

[lament flicker]

damn rip then you're not allowed to touch it

[wanton shoal]

just give me something simpler. I really am just some kid wanting to poke his head in math.

I just got very very close to solving the magic square of squares problem and all I needed was rational points on a quartic curve.

given any rational solution to that I can make a magic square of squares with 6/9 of them a square, or a magic square of squares where all but one diagonal work.

then just a bit of extra work (computer brute force) I could probably lead me to a 7/9 that isn't the one already found.

and from what I've found nobody else is anywhere near where I got in this problem.

[lament flicker]

this is probably the hardest part lol

[wanton shoal]

Yeah it is

took me like a month or two to get to this point

and that was in September.

[compact tartan]

that's just science

sometimes you try and it doesn't work

[wanton shoal]

I just wanted some methods I could use to make a program to generate possible solutions

thought other people would have some advice or point me to someone who would. Wasn't expecting some random person on discord to solve this unsolved problem.

[wanton shoal]

I wonder if there's a way to write math without words at all. Like some notation that makes it obvious what follows from previous statements

so it's very easy to tell if a proof works

because I really do not like words.

[neat lintel]

just write ergo every other line

[wanton shoal]

what

well if a paper was just a bunch of equations that followed from each other I would probably understand it but the way they're written out are just so confusing.

[compact tartan]

formal proof assistants be like

http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/sqrt2irr.html

[tender tulip]

mathematical anal

[surreal sapphire]

does anyone have suggestions as to how to create a list of symbols for a latex document? are there some relevant packages or do i just create a separate chapter with a table?

i don't need any hyperlinks, just a list of symbols with their most common meaning as a reference

[wild lantern]

https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/nomencl/

[wild lantern]

I've never used it but apparently there are premade packages for this?

[hybrid rune]

On a compact set, ||f||_0 <= d||f||_1 where d is the diameter of the compact set and || ||_0 denotes the norm on H_0 and || ||_1 denotes the norm on H^(0)_1. I cannot see how the diameter of the compact set is a natural bound.

I guess the _0 norm is <f> = int of fg and the _1 norm is <f> = int sum of partial derivatives of f_jg_j

What is up with this formatting

[rose dock]

markdown

just put a \ before every underscore

[hybrid rune]

Did they bake in latex support

[lunar spear]

Wtf

you have to pay taxes if you have an us citizenship even if you dont live there?

[pure sun]

I dont think that’s exclusive to the us

[hybrid rune]

Ok basically int of f^2 <= d*int of sum of partial derivatives of f^2 where f is an element of C_0 infinity

On a compact set where d is the diameter

I don’t get this

[pure sun]

Is this in R^n?

[lunar spear]

there are 2

[hybrid rune]

Yeah

[lunar spear]

us and eritrea

[hybrid rune]

I think my understanding of the definition is wrong because my counterexample was x^some n over the compact interval of like [0,12]

[pure sun]

Maybe try to prove for d = 1 and theb make a scaling argument

[hybrid rune]

I think supp f has to be contained in D, the compact set, which is a restriction I hadn’t acknowledged until now

[pure sun]

Hmm that doesnt seem right to me, since you can just modify any function slightly to make the supp contained in D without really changing jts integral

I guess you would make the integral of the derivatives larger though… so maybe you do need that.

Yeah wait the easiest counterexample is just the function 1

The LHS is nonzero but the RHS is zero

So yeah maybe you do need some support condition

[hybrid rune]

I think the book defined C_0^infinity(D) as all infinitely differentiable functions with support contained in a subset of D

[pure sun]

Oh

Then yes

[hybrid rune]

I feel like the indicator function on D is another counterexample though

Because you’d get m(D) <= d*0

[pure sun]

That is my counterexample lol

The function 1

[hybrid rune]

True

Would you be able to help break down the proof in the book?

It’s like 2 steps

[pure sun]

I can take a look but ill make no promises

[hybrid rune]

Basically the author claims that since f is 0 on the boundary of D, for all x in D, we can write f(x) = integral from x^b to x of the first partial derivative of f, f1, where x^b is a boundary point with the same x2,x3,….. coordinates as x. Then, an application of Schwarz inequality yields that f^2(x)<= d times int of abs(f1)^2, where d is the diameter of the compact set. Integrating both sides yields the inequality.

I guess I’m confused on how Schwarz implies the diameter thing

Schwarz: |<x,y>|<=norm(x)norm(y)

[pure sun]

Is the inner product in this case just integration?

Like the L2 inner product?

[hybrid rune]

There are 2 inner products: (f,g)0 = int of fg and (f,g)1 = int of sum of f_jg_j where f,g_j are the jth partial derivatives

[pure sun]

Im a little confused by where the squares are happening

[deep mango]

You use the schwartz inequality on abs f_1 and 1

[pure sun]

Thank you an actual analyst has shown up hahaha

[deep mango]

So the idea is

f^2 = (int f_1)^2

[hybrid rune]

Yes

[deep mango]

Then by the schwartz inequality, int f_1 = int f_1 * 1 is bounded by sqrt(int f_1^2) sqrt(int 1^2)

Int 1^2 is the area of the domain

[hybrid rune]

Damn that’s genius

[deep mango]

Uhhh

[hybrid rune]

Fuck all that holder bull stuff never stuck with me

I see the proof now

[deep mango]

But then somehow you want to say that this is bounded by the diameter.

Oh

Yeah it works

Cause diameter squared is more than area.

[pure sun]

This is in R^n, not R^2

[deep mango]

Well then it's false

[hybrid rune]

It’s the same idea but component wise

Like this case we did f1, the first partial derivative wrt to x1 coordinate

And then extend all the way out by integrating

[deep mango]

Yes but the problem is that sqrt(volume(D)) is the constant

Which is only bounded by d^(n/2). Not by d.

[pure sun]

Dont you square both sides

[deep mango]

Oh, you do. Good point

Yeah ok

I was being silly

You only integrate along one direction

So the constant you get is "however long D is along that direction"

Which is bounded by d.

Good catch

[hybrid rune]

Thank you guys

[deep mango]

Was integrating 1 over the wrong set

[surreal sapphire]

i will look at this

but probably i will just make my own table

[sick kite]

what do the the stars on the side of exercises in spivak mean? I may or may not have skipped the preface

[neat lintel]

hard

if you're talking about spivak's calculus, they denote difficult exercises. if you're talking about spivak's calculus on manifolds, they denote exercises that are used later in the text

[sick kite]

former

thanks 🙂

[neat lintel]

Anyone with a chronic illness that studies math at the undergraduate/graduate level? How has this affected your performance?

[neat lintel]

i think that really depends on the chronic illness youre talking ab lol

[leaden sage]

so would it be a good idea to have a programming language that uses homotopy type theory or variations that use simplicial complexes as primitives

[static loom]

I guess "good" is subjective

[leaden sage]

i'll take that as a maybe

[vapid mulch]

I can share some stuff if you would like ? Feel free to PM me

[lunar spear]

I got a scam message

still havent received any in discord

discord is losing this fight

I probably would have fallen for it if the number wasnt weird and I actually paid taxed

[cold needle]

what

[ancient flame]

sory

I realized my mistake

im dumb

[cold needle]

isee no worries

[ancient flame]

lol

[cold needle]

obviously the error was not using #❓how-to-get-help

/s

[ancient flame]

smh

lmso

I cNt type today

[cold needle]

joy cat

[ancient flame]

HPLY DUCK

[cold needle]

same

[ancient flame]

I HATE MYSELF

pain

[velvet dagger]

Can tell

[mild nebula]

cN tell*

[neat lintel]

CKD

[lunar spear]

It was a scam from someone claiming to be the tax people

[ancient flame]

ah yes because the irs is gonna contact you on discord

im sorry but if you fall for that you deserve to have your life savings stolen from you

[charred mortar]

Inb4 the IRS has an official secret discord where they nab all the unsuspecting tax evaders

[ancient flame]

LMAO

[stiff osprey]

thoughts on using latex for creating your resume?

i wonder if the end result would justify using it

perhaps that could be seen as a more professional alternative

[surreal sapphire]

i wrote my CV in latex with a random template i stole somewhere

looks pretty good and its easy to manage two languages in one document

[stiff osprey]

thats awesome :D

is it public enough that i could take a look at it?

im curious what else is possible with the tool

[surreal sapphire]

the package is just moderncv

i think you can find some samples googling that

[stiff osprey]

https://www.ctan.org/pkg/moderncv

oh yea

[devout nacelle]

I made mine using moderncv too

The result was certainly more plain than the available templates on Microsoft Word

But I'm too proud to use Word for personal use now

[stiff osprey]

plain in what manner?

boring and lame? or more clean rather

[devout nacelle]

Not as graphic-y I would say?

Depending on the perspective you could call it boring or clean

[surreal sapphire]

plain is good

[devout nacelle]

Yeah, I agree

[surreal sapphire]

mine just looks like this fwiw

https://extensions.libreoffice.org/assets/screenshots/z/lebenslauf-im-moderncv-stil-moderncv-style-curriculum-vitae_8dca1286-f00d-4602-a018-986b75ec945f__FitMaxWzEwMDAsMTAwMF0.png

great embed

[devout nacelle]

Lmao

[stiff osprey]

im a fan

[devout nacelle]

I looked at my CV again and I think it's aesthetically pleasing kind of plain, not Times New Roman on a white background plain

[surreal sapphire]

the coolest thing for me is that i have both german and english version in the same document

and just change a switch to compile what i want

[devout nacelle]

How?

[stiff osprey]

[surreal sapphire]

i have this

\newif\ifenglish
%\englishtrue % Show English text only
\englishfalse % will show German text only

and then every part has like

\ifenglish
  english version here
\else
  non-english here
\fi

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

and similarly a \selectlanguage in the beginning

[neat frost]

That sounds like hell

[surreal sapphire]

it probably isnt very clean, yeah

[neat frost]

You write the document twice?

[surreal sapphire]

but it works

ye

[neat frost]

Why not write in two files, then do the same thing but \input them instead

[devout nacelle]

How about you comment out the parts you don't need

[surreal sapphire]

i write each section twice

i want it all in one file

commenting is a lot of work

[devout nacelle]

More than this?

[surreal sapphire]

this way its just commenting/uncommenting one line

[devout nacelle]

Hmm, okay

[surreal sapphire]

i have to write everything twice anyway

this way its just stored in one file

[devout nacelle]

Nice 😌

I should make a CV in German too

Ich heiße Manan und ich liebe Rammstein

[surreal sapphire]

the english one is significantly longer

because i have to explain the german grade system

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

my degree actually comes with a multiple page supplement

to explain it

[devout nacelle]

It's the same ECTS system for all, right?

Why is an explanation for grades needed?

[surreal sapphire]

ECTS, yes but the grades are numerical

my bachelor grade is 1.4 for example

which is uh

[devout nacelle]

Ah, so ECTS does not prescribe a standard grading system?

[surreal sapphire]

ECTS just tells you how much work you did (in theory)

but not how good you are

[devout nacelle]

I see

[surreal sapphire]

(very good)

it actually says that on the diploma

[broken arch]

It's meant to be used across european countries to measure someone's amount of education even if the specifics may vary between countries

[surreal sapphire]

but there is a supplement explaining how good it is i guess

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

maybe i should add that its 180 ECTS

i doubt anyone cares

[devout nacelle]

Isn't that's how much the standard 3 year undergrad program is supposed to carry?

Or can the amount of credits vary from program to program as well?

[surreal sapphire]

ye its standard for 3 years

but i think you can do 4 year undergrad and 1 year masters or something

[devout nacelle]

Oh

[surreal sapphire]

bologna allows for this at least

[devout nacelle]

There's a push here for doing 4+1 too, away from the standard 3+2 in most disciplines and institutes

With a view towards a more research inclined last year of undergrad

[surreal sapphire]

ye i dont know whats better

i think the idea was just to generate workforce quickly

so the hope was with 3+2, most enter workforce after 3 years

[devout nacelle]

The proposed system here will allow you to exit after the third year with a Bachelors without Hons./Research tag

[surreal sapphire]

and i dont think that happened really

so maybe 4+1 is the better choice

applied universities here do 7 semester bachelors

[devout nacelle]

Yeah, I think 3 is too scuffed to achieve anything realistic

[surreal sapphire]

with the last semester being focused on industry internship

[devout nacelle]

Nice

Internships are usually thrown in the 5th/6th semester in 3 years programs here

[surreal sapphire]

internships here are just optional and nobody tells you about them

you can fight the department to get credit but eh

[devout nacelle]

Must be discipline dependent I guess?

[surreal sapphire]

its hard to get something that the department will deem mathematical enough to get university credit

[devout nacelle]

I would expect a few places to have a core credit requirement for an internship

[devout nacelle]

Ah, for mathematics in particular

[surreal sapphire]

ye, for more applied subjects its more common

[devout nacelle]

Yeah you don't even need an internship here and will not get any credits even if you do

[surreal sapphire]

and germany has "applied universities" (Fachhochschulen) where its usually obligatory

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

and "normal" universities are more research focused in spirit

so its not really part of the education

[devout nacelle]

Are these applied universities like polytechnic?

[surreal sapphire]

a local Fachhochschule has a "Technomathematik" degree

its like applied math and has obligatory internships

i think so

[devout nacelle]

This sounds like a good program honestly

[surreal sapphire]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fachhochschule if you care

[devout nacelle]

Lot of room to create a program that can create industry-useful math people

[surreal sapphire]

one of my advisors teaches at a Fachhochschule

in fact he is the only professor in germany who can award doctoral degrees in mathematics while being at a Fachhochschule

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

ye, this might be my dream career

[devout nacelle]

Teaching at a FH?

[surreal sapphire]

do some math(ish) academia for now, then fuck off to industry for a few years and get a teaching position at such a school

[devout nacelle]

Sounds good

[surreal sapphire]

they like to have people with some industry experience

which makes sense i guess

if you teach people to work in industry

but the teaching can still be mathematical

like, he teaches comm alg and mathematical logic quite regularly

[devout nacelle]

What is the scope of the Technomathematik course you mentioned? Like would it get into stuff like cryptography too?

[devout nacelle]

That's pretty amazing

[surreal sapphire]

ye

did his phd in math/CS, worked in industry for 10-ish years and now does this mostly

with some consulting on the side

seems cool

mentally stimulating but you dont get crushed by academia

[devout nacelle]

Living the dream

[surreal sapphire]

it also seems easier to get tenure for now

[devout nacelle]

Are you aware of any German unis that do stuff on the intersection of TCS and logic/foundations?

[surreal sapphire]

and i think those schools will get a lot more funding in the future

and maybe replace traditional universities

[devout nacelle]

That makes sense

[devout nacelle]

Does that seem plausible?

[surreal sapphire]

it seems more useful

more applied researchers

[devout nacelle]

What even would be the distinction with regular unis at such a place?

[devout nacelle]

I see

[surreal sapphire]

not really, sorry

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

for CS i would look at TU Darmstadt or Tübingen

but i dont know if they have thereotical research

in germany at least most research funding seems to move into applied and interdisciplinary things

and industry complains about universities not adapting to job market

i.e. not teaching useful skills

and most people going to uni just want a job and not academia

[devout nacelle]

I might just start skewing towards learning some "usable" skills by the time I'm applying for a better pitch, not sure if it's actually accounted for in a masters application though

[surreal sapphire]

for now Fachhochschulen have less prestige but honestly its just a matter of time until people realize its the better option often

[devout nacelle]

Makes sense

[surreal sapphire]

90% of my CS first semester students complained about their classes

"my boss wont care if i can do this"

and im like "why enroll in a university then?"

[devout nacelle]

Why did first semester students have an industrybrained perspective

[surreal sapphire]

maybe its a CS thing

CS = money

or CS = video games

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

seems to be very common

[neat lintel]

CS=math would make more sense, no?

[surreal sapphire]

we also have a game design major fwiw

[charred mortar]

I was really scared of not getting a job in my first year of uni

[surreal sapphire]

its a flexible degree

[charred mortar]

Now I’m like “unemployed? Meh”

[surreal sapphire]

but you do have to work through some math heavy classes to get the degree

[devout nacelle]

"Giovanni-Prodi Visiting Professor" is listed on the areas of research on Würzburg's math website

[surreal sapphire]

honestly thats one of the more interesting things happening here

but wü definitely doesnt have TCS

there is one prof roughly working in this field

[devout nacelle]

Yeah, the scope is still pretty broad it seems

[errant ridge]

maybe you just have a "first semester students have an industrybrained perspective" brained perspective get meta'd

Lol jk

[devout nacelle]

[errant ridge]

maybe I just have a "maybe you just have a "first semester students have an industrybrained perspective" brained perspective get meta'd" brained perspective

[surreal sapphire]

thinking about it, it might also be a germany thing

[devout nacelle]

Stealing your data and selling it to potentially interested large corporations, get Meta'd

[surreal sapphire]

uni is free, so why not check out some degree if you dont know what to do after school

[errant ridge]

uni is free in germany?

[surreal sapphire]

in my first degree which wasnt math but still had math classes a friend of mine from school was also in

and he quit week 1 because he didnt want to do math anymore

[devout nacelle]

Lmao

[surreal sapphire]

"this is like school, i want to do something practical"

[devout nacelle]

I think this system is really great

[surreal sapphire]

which is fair i guess but you couldve known that before

still nothing lost other than maybe a few months time

[surreal sapphire]

essentially

[errant ridge]

wdym essentially?

[surreal sapphire]

i pay 140€ per semester

[errant ridge]

oh wow that's pretty low

[devout nacelle]

It seems to save a ton of money/time that is lost in sunken cost fallacy in more rigid systems

[surreal sapphire]

tuition and bus/train ticket

i think its 60€ tuition

and the rest is bus ticket

which is insane value

[devout nacelle]

Germany paying people to enrol in uni when

[errant ridge]

is that the average cost? is it higher for the best uni's in the country?

[surreal sapphire]

some unis have a orientation semester or two now

you dont enroll in a specific major

but can just check out some classes

pretty nice idea honestly

[errant ridge]

I agree

[surreal sapphire]

its more or less like that everywhere

[devout nacelle]

Yeah, definitely

[surreal sapphire]

some dont have a bus ticket

but uni is free since uh

2010ish?

students fought for it and won

[errant ridge]

wow nicee

wait the same applies for international students as well??

I looked it up (not sure if that website was credible so idk if it's accurate)

[devout nacelle]

Yes, seemingly

At least so far I've not seen any uni mention different provisions for international students with regard to cost or benefits

[errant ridge]

me about to learn german and go to germany

[devout nacelle]

Even learning German may not be necessary

[errant ridge]

I like learning languages

programming or human

either

[devout nacelle]

Many programs at the postgraduate and above level are offered in English (partially, or completely)

Still helpful to learn I guess

[errant ridge]

oh I meant yk for living there and stuff

[devout nacelle]

Makes sense

My Duolingo progress won't get me far enough it seems

[errant ridge]

I'm not sure if I actually should consider doing that

[surreal sapphire]

me getting everyone on this server to move to germany any%

[devout nacelle]

[surreal sapphire]

i think international students pay a bit more fwiw

but overall universities seem to try and help international students a lot

[ashen pike]

german is one of the easier european languages to learn for an english speaker, considering both are germanic, no?

[surreal sapphire]

[devout nacelle]

If only

[ashen pike]

Im only speaking from experience

[surreal sapphire]

Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz

also lmao

[errant ridge]

world record speedrun

[ashen pike]

Which is just compund words

[surreal sapphire]

this breaks google

[errant ridge]

what-

[ashen pike]

break it apart and its simple

[devout nacelle]

"Just compound words" is uhhh very non-trivial lmao

[surreal sapphire]

but no, german is notoriously difficult to learn

not because of compound words, but other reasons

[errant ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-challenging-me-what-challenge-gif-15643828

[devout nacelle]

I'm sure there are nuances to how you can piece them together

[ashen pike]

yeah, the cases suck

[surreal sapphire]

3 grammatical genders, sentence structure can be very weird

[devout nacelle]

Or break them apart in an intended manner

[devout nacelle]

Struggling very, very hard with the sentence structure ngl

[errant ridge]

just listen to german songs and watch german movies while learning german and you'll pick it up in no time

[ashen pike]

well you cant form any new word just by mashing 2 or more old ones, but the ones you can make you can pretty much just mash the words together

[devout nacelle]

AMERIKA IST WUNDERBAR

[devout nacelle]

Again, I feel there are a lot of subtleties that work on a case-by-case basis here, and learning that could be fairly involved

[ashen pike]

Do you speak german?

[devout nacelle]

Errr does introducing myself in 3 sentences count

[ashen pike]

no

[errant ridge]

[devout nacelle]

No, I'm still learning

Which is why I don't entirely find it obvious

[velvet dagger]

I might consider moving to Germany at some point tbh

First off in case things crash and burn for me in the US, in principle I can go to Morocco but if I can have a base of sorts in Europe that might also be a good idea. Germany is the natural candidate

[ashen pike]

sounds good

[velvet dagger]

And also even if I'm doing well I feel like there are things I like about Germany over the US

I remember I was talking to a friend once and basically, if I decide I want a family, which is moderately likely

I feel like Germany is the best place for that

I've also looked at Japan

[devout nacelle]

As a student, Germany seems to hit all the checkmarks for me (there are programs taught in English, the education and living costs are much more reasonable, and the country/universities are actually keen on having international students)

[devout nacelle]

Can one survive in Japan with just English?

Like at least academically

I'm not familiar with how prevalent the usage is in academic contexts there

[ashen pike]

https://www.thoughtco.com/german-compound-words-1444618 @devout nacelle The rules are indeed very basic, with only letter insertions between words that come very naturally when you speak the language.

[outer swan]

no

100% no

i've been there as an exchange student

at least in my case

speaking only english didn't get me anywhere

[devout nacelle]

Thanks, I'll take a look at it.

[devout nacelle]

Oooof, that sounds rough

[outer swan]

maybe because I'm from a country that isn't liked by japan tho

I guess it could be different for europeans and americans

[devout nacelle]

Did that have an impact even on your academic experience?

[outer swan]

nope

it was just an exchange experience

[devout nacelle]

I see

[outer swan]

I mean I didn't do that well

but the grade was on pass/fail

so it didn't effect it that much

[devout nacelle]

How was the living experience otherwise?

[outer swan]

the summer was damn hot

[fervent pebble]

this

gods

[outer swan]

also since I am already an introvert and weirdo

[fervent pebble]

im so jealous of ppl who take spanish

[outer swan]

i obviously didn't make friends

the work culture was a bit stricter

than my countries

[brittle socket]

Ah yes a fellow introvert + weirdo

[outer swan]

tho the city's design and overal enviroment was much better

[devout nacelle]

If you don't mind revealing, which city were you staying in?

[outer swan]

tokyo

[errant ridge]

did you turn on the subtitles?

[devout nacelle]

Ah, okay

[errant ridge]

you should've done that

it would've made it easier

[outer swan]

I was fortunate that I wasn'ta weeb tho

japanese really hate weebs

like seriously

[errant ridge]

Lol I bet

[outer swan]

like I'm from korea and i don't like koreaboos and k pop fans

maybe same as that

[errant ridge]

how's korea rn?

[outer swan]

bad

the country is divided like america

[errant ridge]

lmao so basically the same as every other country on earth

[outer swan]

the problem is

[devout nacelle]

@flat harbor A fellow Korean

[errant ridge]

manan is loch from germany?

[devout nacelle]

Yes

[outer swan]

people now quit being friends because of political ideologies

[errant ridge]

@surreal sapphire do unis in germany have dorms that students can stay in?

[outer swan]

also the president that was elected 2 months ago has all time lowest approval ratings

[errant ridge]

that sucks

[surreal sapphire]

most of them, yes

[errant ridge]

how do you get into these unis?

[outer swan]

tbh its kinda similar to how usa is now

[surreal sapphire]

you apply i assume

[errant ridge]

[outer swan]

oh you didn't talk to me

sorry

[surreal sapphire]

i dont know the international student process

[flat harbor]

WHY PING

[surreal sapphire]

i signed up a week before classes started

[errant ridge]

what was the process for you?

[surreal sapphire]

i had to send them my highschool diploma thing

[errant ridge]

do they look at your school grades to see if you can join or not?

ah okay

[flat harbor]

@devout nacelle ill eat u

[surreal sapphire]

they didnt look at the grades

just whether i had finished

[errant ridge]

oh

[outer swan]

did you go to gynmasium

[errant ridge]

I see

[surreal sapphire]

yes

[outer swan]

whats the difference between taht and high school

[errant ridge]

also what exactly is a gymnasium?

[surreal sapphire]

the german school system is weird

[errant ridge]

apparently einstien went to one

[surreal sapphire]

when i say high school i mean gymnasium

lol

[errant ridge]

so loch = einstein by the transitive property

[surreal sapphire]

you and me are not so different, einstein

[ashen pike]

did you go oberstufe afterwards?

[surreal sapphire]

oberstufe is part of gymnasium

so yes?

[ashen pike]

is it?

huh

[surreal sapphire]

its everything after 10th grade

in my case 11 and 12

[ashen pike]

i thought it was separate like 6th form

[surreal sapphire]

but now its also 13

[ashen pike]

nvm

[errant ridge]

mfw there's 13th grade in germany

[outer swan]

i've heard that theres a high school for students who intend to get a job after graduating

whats that called

[errant ridge]

right after high school?

bruh

you barely learn anything in school how tf are they gonna get a job

[ashen pike]

technikum in old poland, don't know about germany. But maybe like technical college or something

[surreal sapphire]

in germany you legally arent allowed to be a NEET until you are 18

[outer swan]

there are many people who get jobs right after high school

[surreal sapphire]

so uh

there is some way to test out of having to go to school or learn a trade

[sleek wing]

pings u

[ashen pike]

trade school maybe?

[errant ridge]

sure if you taught yourself stuff on your own while in school

[flat harbor]

there are unspeakable acts i would do to you and just you

[outer swan]

tbh I kind of regret going to uni

like the job prospects are so abysmal

[errant ridge]

what degree did you get?

[outer swan]

even if I enjoy math the whole thought of getting the job discourages me

I'm currently a junior college student

[errant ridge]

then go into research

[brittle socket]

Wait a minute where are you from

[outer swan]

the thing is

[errant ridge]

korea

[outer swan]

graduate school in my country is

[errant ridge]

not good?

[outer swan]

infamous for being cruel and abusive

[errant ridge]

Oof

damn

[outer swan]

many professors think students as slaves or atm machines

[errant ridge]

then in some other country?

[outer swan]

thats what I'm currently wanting to do

[errant ridge]

ah nice

in pure mathematics?

[outer swan]

I don't plan on doing pure math

I plan on studying financial math or probability

[brittle socket]

Probability can get very pure from what I've heard

[outer swan]

applied ones I mean

[brittle socket]

Oh

I see

[errant ridge]

measure theory be like

[errant ridge]

black scholes comes to mind

[charred mortar]

Get da big money

[outer swan]

yep

that's why i'm taking measure theory next semester

[brittle socket]

Yeah I heard meaure theory was linked to probability

[outer swan]

Also how difficult is stochastic calculus?

I've heard that its the most difficult course that an undergraduate could take

[flat harbor]

math major in korea you say

[outer swan]

yep

[flat harbor]

run away

[outer swan]

i am currently one

unfortunately

[flat harbor]

굶어죽는다

[outer swan]

솔직히 고딩때 순진하게 들가긴했는데

이정도일줄은 모름 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ

[flat harbor]

컴공 아직 안늦었어

[outer swan]

3학년이라...

걍 코딩노예 뛰어야하나

okay lets speak english

[flat harbor]

do fp or smth

[errant ridge]

blo you're from korea?

[flat harbor]

lots of open positions there

[outer swan]

what does fp stand for?

[flat harbor]

unfortunately

[errant ridge]

lmao

[outer swan]

yep unfortunately

[flat harbor]

functional programming

[outer swan]

military sucks

[outer swan]

oh

[errant ridge]

oh right I heard all korean men have to do military service or something for a year?

[outer swan]

2 years

[errant ridge]

yikes

[outer swan]

its the worst part of living in korea as a man

[errant ridge]

well at least you now know how to shoot a gun

[outer swan]

and nope military does not 'man' you up

it actually turns you more of a coward

and makes you surrender to authority

[errant ridge]

what kinda stuff do you have to do there?

[flat harbor]

u can look that shit up on google

[outer swan]

some routine 'drills'

after that they make you work

like they make you shovel of the snow during winter

even while snowing

[flat harbor]

labour extortion

[errant ridge]

damn that sucks

[brittle socket]

Same in my country

[flat harbor]

"jesul"

[errant ridge]

where's that?

[outer swan]

they rob you of your labor

and don't pay adequate money

[flat harbor]

still a quarter of minimum wage

[errant ridge]

wtf? how is that legal?

[outer swan]

theres north korea and china

and russia

[flat harbor]

its constitutional

og champ

[outer swan]

nearby

also it only has been like 30 years since korea was freed from brutal dictatorship

so its remnants are still there

[velvet dagger]

I mean I'm prob gonna learn the language of a country if I move there

[errant ridge]

ah damn

[velvet dagger]

@surreal sapphire can confirm that my accent in German is perfect

[outer swan]

I don't know why people from my country are so cruel to each other

[velvet dagger]

So if I learn the language nobody will know that I'm not German

[outer swan]

I think they will notice by your accent

[surreal sapphire]

you seem pretty good with languages so there is that

[flat harbor]

crabs in a bucket

[surreal sapphire]

i once thought you were russian for a whole semester

[brittle socket]

Dami but Russian

Interesting

[velvet dagger]

Okay my Russian accent when speaking English is like

Super convincing

I can do 3 accents

Southern, NY, and Russian

[errant ridge]

I feel like I can do a decent russian accent

[velvet dagger]

Not as good as mine but probably

[errant ridge]

same for southern (maybe)

[velvet dagger]

Southern mine is more questionable

Wanna try it out in voice rn?

Loch and Manan will be the arbiters

[errant ridge]

too tired

Lol

[velvet dagger]

Either way get on

All of you

[errant ridge]

[velvet dagger]

I guess off topic is occupied so math even though this isn't math

[surreal sapphire]

lmao

i am leaving soon

[velvet dagger]

But yeah nah I was joking about how one time I was in voice and Manan and I were trying to pronounce a German word

And I think my pronunciation was like

Not the worst?

[surreal sapphire]

probably

[velvet dagger]

Nerd

[sleek wing]

rude...

[velvet dagger]

Wew get on voice so I can pain you with my absolutely butchered British accent

It'll be the worst thing you've ever heard

Smh Wew

[sleek wing]

one sec I'm eating chicken

[velvet dagger]

Oh okay

[errant ridge]

wew eating live chickens

[zenith tinsel]

based asfuckkkkkkk

hunt your own food

[sleek wing]

yeah I caught this snack in the isles of tescos

[carmine creek]

brown truffle on the sidewalk do be bussin

[errant ridge]

holup

[neat lintel]

ewww

[neat lintel]

everything is ewww for you huh

[zenith tinsel]

ew

[neat lintel]

a

[bright hill]

nuuuu

did I miss dami speaking in a russian accent?

[arctic grove]

did i miss vc

another one

[sleek wing]

meow

[arctic grove]

😭

[bright hill]

wew

say "meow" one more time

I dare you

[fervent pebble]

wew now is ur chance

[bright hill]

oh it's valley

[fair mural]

i will eat a chicken

[bright hill]

@fervent pebble did I introduce you to our lord and saviour

[fathom swallow]

DarQ

[bright hill]

✨✨✨✨

[wild lantern]

Chicken is delicious

[summer sandal]

Fish is where it’s at.

I love chicken and I love fish but I will chose fish over chicken any day. At the same time I easily get sick of fish faster than I do for chicken.

[deep mango]

Salmon....

[neat frost]

Rycie!

Good morning!

[deep mango]

What

Im going to bed

[neat frost]

Bruh

Why tho

Oh did you eat the milka?

[deep mango]

I have to wake up in 5 hours for a train

No

[neat frost]

What why

How come

[deep mango]

Im leaving

Have to train to milan

And then fly out

[neat frost]

Yeah but why no eat milka

[deep mango]

Its a complicated operation

Oh

I had more tiramisu

I actually like

[neat frost]

Ah

[deep mango]

Was faced with a huge dilemma

I was so so full

[neat frost]

Mmhmm

I also have an Oreo milka

[deep mango]

Off of sea bass ravioli with shrimp sauce

[neat frost]

But the not as good kind

[deep mango]

But I couldn't help it

So I ordered a tiramisu anyway

And then I struggled through it

Guess what else I had today

[neat frost]

Uhhh

Vomit?

[deep mango]

Squid ink risotto

[neat frost]

Stomachache?

Wtf

That sounds vile

[deep mango]

@neat lintel

I think halwa was the one to suggest it

[neat frost]

Galwa.

You ate ink?

What are you, 3?

[deep mango]

I ate ink

It was crazy

[neat frost]

Ryc you eat some weird shit

[neat frost]

Eat more hummus

[deep mango]

I had to try it!

It was like

[neat frost]

Ewwwww

[deep mango]

30 euros

[neat frost]

It’s a whole fucking shrimp

[deep mango]

It was an expensive place though

Yeah

[neat frost]

That’s fucking vile

[deep mango]

You dissect it

[neat frost]

Omg ryc I’m gonna be sick

[deep mango]

Learn to eat haute cuisine

[neat frost]

That’s a fucking INSECT ryc

[deep mango]

The squid ink stained my lips

[neat frost]

Oh you eat insects right

[deep mango]

It took a while of using the napkin and water

[neat frost]

Can’t kiss like that

[deep mango]

To get it off

Well its gone now

Hey people make lipstick marks with kisses

💋

Anyway

I will never have squid ink pasta again

But it was great to try it

Pretty good but very weird

And also like

It made me feel pretty weird afterwards, like slightly intoxicated

Which im assuming is the body's response to consuming poison

[neat frost]

Probably

Go back to the US and have some normal food. Like pizza and pasta and hummus and Sabich and shakshuka please

[deep mango]

I will have noodles from my favorite noodle place

[neat frost]

Nude-les

[deep mango]

Why are you telling me to have pizza and pasta

Dumb

[neat frost]

Oh yeah

You’re in Italy

My b

I meant like NORMAL pizza and pasta

[sleek wing]

yeah he's with you slurp

[deep mango]

Need a big juicy burg

[neat frost]

Which you don’t even do

[neat frost]

Ew

[neat frost]

He’s with yo mama

[sleek wing]

ryc there's an incredible place in rome that does burgers

[deep mango]

I get normal pasta sometimes

[neat frost]

Staining her cheeks with squid ink

[deep mango]

Gross

I would never kiss wews mom

[neat frost]

Uh huh sure

[sleek wing]

meow

[fervent pebble]

are you ally or darq

[storm sage]

Lol I hear US food regulations are scarily lax in comparison to Europe in terms of what chemicals you can put in food

[neat lintel]

To be fair, that's not just US. All of non-EU countries have crazy food scandals.

[storm sage]

Yea true

[neat lintel]

And it's not like EU is perfect. The meat and agriculture industry in EU employ a lot of migrant workers as modern day slaves.

There was a lot of reports during corona, because they live in small quarters.

And documentaries too.

But police did nothing. It's still going on. Disgusting. All countries have their issues.

[ancient flame]

I saw that the ordered pair (a, b) can be defined to be {a, {a, b}}. can someone explain to me how that makes sense?

[sleek wing]

{a, b} = {b, a} but {a, {a, b}} isn't equal to {b, {b, a}}

[ancient flame]

I know

but

how does it make sense

[sleek wing]

which part doesn't make sense

[ancient flame]

where does it come from

the {a, {a, b}}

[sleek wing]

we need a way to identify which elements come "first"

[ancient flame]

mhm

[sleek wing]

and

idk that seems like the natural choice to me

make the 2nd element in a set within a set

[ancient flame]

I can see the first a

but idk where the {a, b} part comes from

[sleek wing]

it's just one of many constructions that work

after some googling I found (a, b) = {{{a}, {}}, {{b}}}

ok here's a good justification

we want a set representation that preserves the main property of ordered pairs, (a,b) = (c,d) <=> a = c and b = d

[storm sage]

I agree

[sleek wing]

so taking {a, {a,b}} and {c, {c, d}} to be the set representation, "{a, b}" could be equal to "{c, d}" if a = d, b = c which we don't want, so we force a = c by including them as their own elements in the set

so overall we have that the two set representations are equal if and only if a = c and b = d

[ancient flame]

interesting

lemme digest this

OHHHH

I GET IT NOW

[sleek wing]

now I'm trying to think why {a, {b}} doesn't work

[ancient flame]

tysm

lol

[bright hill]

lmao

[bright hill]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[ancient flame]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[storm sage]

under this definition, ({{}}, {{}}) = ({{{}}}, {})

Maybe?

I think that checks out

yeah

[sleek wing]

ah

good spot

[storm sage]

yeah, ordered pair definitions are pretty arbitrary though

[plucky zodiac]

Do you think I been helping out as like to be helpful and is fun in doing this

[storm sage]

Wait can you rephrase the question, I'm not quite understanding

[plucky zodiac]

Sorry I meant I been trying to help people out with their math homework and wondered from what you seen me doing if I am going in the right direction

[storm sage]

ohh

I haven't been paying attention I'm sorry :(

what channels are you doing it in?

[plucky zodiac]

That is okay

This #math help

[ancient flame]

I find richard borcherds' youtube channel quite funny

first of all, the channel name

Richard E. BORCHERDS

secondly, the thumbnails

just that they're all off center and low effort makes it funny

and thirdly, the channel banner

just random numbers in random sizes just thrown around

the actual content is good and I'm not dissing him or anything

just funny

[storm sage]

as long as you're helping, that's great :)

[plucky zodiac]

Thanks

People like you are smart

Have a friend who is doing masters and so is nice to refer to them

[storm sage]

You are smart too!

[plucky zodiac]

Thanks

[analog salmon]

why arent I allowed to prove up to minor flaws

[vivid halo]

god heegner numbers are so cool

[analog salmon]

every time i try readin about the j invariant my eyes glaze over

[vivid halo]

okay the almost integer stuff with Heegner numbers is like

really boring tbh

but otherwise this stuff rocks

[little vine]

Should I google or do you want to tell us

[azure nymph]

My calc 2 prof is killing me right now we covered polar and parametric in 2 days and now he plans to finish sequences and series in 3 I feel like I'm barely even learning any of this

He also cut an hour of today's lecture because when he originally streamed it a few years ago his internet cut out 💀

[primal seal]

Sounds like summer school 😂

[azure nymph]

Yep the pacing was pretty good till now guess we're paying for it now lol

Well if I end up needing to calculate them again I'll just have to relearn them probably

[primal seal]

Yeah I remember I had a buddy who use to take all the “bs” courses like arts requirements during the summer. Later I found out why… you blow through them (and they’re ‘easy’ anyway), leaving more time for core courses during the semesters proper

[wild lantern]

Some math stuff goes good over the summer

I did ode+intro to film one summer

[azure nymph]

I only did calc 2 to get a jumpstart on research

[wild lantern]

So like I watched a movie each day with some notes and then studied ode all day the rest of the day lol

[azure nymph]

I failed a summer film studies course in community college it was so hard

3 papers that was your whole grade

[wild lantern]

Mine was super easy

It was this old lady that basically just made you write some notes and do a couple quizzes

The lectures were basically just watching famous movies

[primal seal]

Sometimes the instructor makes it difficult in artificial ways if the course gets an “easy” reputation

[wild lantern]

Yeah, true.

I've noticed with old tenured arts professord teaching the non-major intensive stuff they sometimes don't care much.

[azure nymph]

I feel like calc 2 (at least my course) is artificially difficult in some ways

[wild lantern]

I think calc 2 is just a mish mash

[jagged tree]

If i have a really simple question for math can I ask here, it requires no work shown I just need to get confirmation on something

[neat lintel]

sure

[primal seal]

The calc series can be weed out courses sometimes

[jagged tree]

the limit is 10 right

[wild lantern]

There's a good amt of stuff and kind of a wide variety of stuff in calc 2

[wild lantern]

#❓how-to-get-help

[neat lintel]

yes

[jagged tree]

alr thx

[azure nymph]

Like this question was not fun

[neat lintel]

@jagged tree do you understand it tho

[jagged tree]

yeah theya ll approach 10

all the terms in the sequence

[neat lintel]

it's 10+(-0.1)^n

[surreal sapphire]

NIST published the first round of winners for their post quantum cryptography standardization process

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2022/07/nist-announces-first-four-quantum-resistant-cryptographic-algorithms

tfw no SIKE

but oh well, hopefully round 2 soon

[errant ridge]

[errant ridge]

wow cryptographic algorithms that are resistant against quantum computers?

[surreal sapphire]

to our knowledge

[bronze pelican]

Who are the winners?

[surreal sapphire]

CRYSTALS and FALCON based on lattices and SPHINCS+ based on hash functions

they will announce alternatives "at a later date"

i was hoping for SIKE to be named an alternative

might still happen but still sad

SIKE being based on isogenies between elliptic curves

[surreal sapphire]

also nobody cares but the full report is here: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2022/NIST.IR.8413.pdf

In addition, four of the alternate key-establishment
candidate algorithms will advance to a fourth round of evaluation: BIKE, Classic McEliece,
HQC, and SIKE. These candidates are still being considered for future standardization.
NIST will also issue a new Call for Proposals for public-key digital signature algorithms to
augment and diversify its signature portfolio.

new call for proposals is interesting

seems the future will be more diverse when it comes to available cryptographic protocols

it's quite interesting that NTRU Prime is out, considering the fact that openSSH uses it

and with the selections there are apparently possible patenting issues

[pearl moth]

i'd not be surprised if that was intentional

there's good money to be made in having a patented technique get adopted as a standard

NIST has historically been good at avoiding regulatory capture, but recent administrations have been phenomenally corrupt. Laurie Locascio has only been directing NIST since April 2022, and her predecessor, Walter Copan, was the CEO of an IP management company before being in charge of NIST.

[surreal sapphire]

hm, they mention switching to NTRU prime if the patent issues aren't sorted by the end of the year

[pearl moth]

to be fair, copan did sign a letter criticizing the biden administration for failing to adequately address patent issues in standardization

ah, no, that's not at all fair

his position is that patent holders whose patents become parts of standards should be allowed to obtain preliminary injunctions

the biden administration's policy (which mirrors obama administration policy, and contradicts trump administration policy) is that any infringement arising from such usage can be adequately compensated by financial awards, and that injunctive relief should not generally be available to patent holders

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/draft-standard-patent-policy-draws-former-officials-opposition

the ability to obtain a preliminary injunction for a SEP dramatically increases the pwer of the the patent holder to obtain an unfair negotiating advantage in determining a fair, reasonable and nondiscriminatory royalty

[surreal sapphire]

hm, i will read this later

tbh idc about US politics too much

kinda sad NIST has such a big impact even outside the US

i was hoping that they name SIKE as an alternative (and they still might, but later) as this would potentially improve my funding situation

[distant lance]

c

[bronze pelican]

Is it based on Kristin Lauter's work?

[surreal sapphire]

she did do some work on this but i dont know if "based"

the original idea to use isogenies is due to a french mathematician Jean-Marc Couveignes

[stiff aurora]

Weren't there concerns that NIST standardising RNGs with backdoors?

I don't know how it would differ for encryptions, perhaps it's not a real concern here, but NIST does seem sus sometimes.

[pearl moth]

i'm not that knowledgeable about cryptography, but patent law and politics are both things i understand

[surreal sapphire]

NIST isnt developing those algorithms themselves and they are (to some extent?) public knowledge

certainly SIKE is

[pearl moth]

well, by definition any patented technology is "public knowledge" since patents are published

[surreal sapphire]

they come from the academic community and have been checked by other academics (quite extensively in the last 6 years)

[pearl moth]

in general, NIST acts as a referee rather than an instigator

at least in this area

there are areas where they develop the standards themselves

oliver smoot used to be the NIST chairman

[surreal sapphire]

NIST has published an elliptic curve for cryptographic use in the fast

that raised some suspicions

as to why the coefficients were chosen that way

some leaked NSA documents suggested a backdoor

and it is believed that the curve parameters were chosen in a way such that the NSA would be able to perform attacks more efficiently

so there is that

[pearl moth]

there have been several US-recommended cryptographic standards that have had weaknesses that have been alleged to have been intentionally placed

[surreal sapphire]

the issue here (if true) is only in the choice of parameters though

switching to another curve makes them go away, the protocol itself is (or was) fine

[pearl moth]

nothing has ever been satisfactorily proved, and some of them could have been honest errors rather than intentional

[surreal sapphire]

there is some fishy stuff

even AES does some stuff that seems to have no purpose

and yeah, there isnt any proof beyond doubt for security

[pearl moth]

i'm very dubious of AES

[surreal sapphire]

just heiristics and experience

and i dont think you should trust the US government

[pearl moth]

i wouldn't and i live here

[surreal sapphire]

but they didnt develop those protocols

[pearl moth]

at least as far as we know they didn't

[stiff aurora]

Yeah it seems mostly a parameter thing, there are some economic reasons why they might not add backdoors. But yeah it is still sus sometimes.
https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/10263/should-we-trust-the-nist-recommended-ecc-parameters
https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/12898/is-there-a-feasible-method-by-which-nist-ecc-curves-over-prime-fields-could-be-i
Also didn't know Schneier doesn't like ECC.

[pearl moth]

not sure if "not well understood" is fair

the general public probably doesn't understand them, but the general public has trouble understanding the math behind lotteries and progressive taxation, not sure they're a good basis for formulating what "well understood math" is