#serious-discussion
mint patio
These articles make mathematics seem so cool
But every time I want to learn math and I get to doing exercises I want to give up so easily
I quit easily if I can't see any immediate/quick improvement or progress and writing a shitty + incorrect proof for all your assignments without really getting better at it demotivates me a lot
static loom
patience and appreciate the current thing you're learning, try to find what's cool about it
mint patio
Oh it's all cool as hell! That's not the issue
static loom
I always thought exponent rules were cool, and that's where it started for me just fascinated in simple stuff really
static loom
I spend a lot of time with stuff just thinking about it and not getting anywhere or going down false paths, I think that's part of undestanding stuff
like I see it as, knowing what something isn't is a part of knowing what something is
proud olive
I have no clue what you're saying
mint patio
I love going down false paths too, I think it's just the idea of "exercise" that trips me up lol
Feels like there's an obligation to be right/fully understand it after you're done
static loom
yeah I was not a huge fan of exercises if I didn't like them in the past, it depends on the author or my mood
mint patio
Which I know isn't true and understanding will develop further as you learn more things
Just me whining
static loom
some exercises I see as just like, boring trivia, others I kind of see as interesting stuff that kind of are a small piece of something bigger, idk
mint patio
I think the latter sounds fun
Working on a bunch of small parts of something to put them together
Makes it a lot more approachable
static loom
I just try not to hate anything and just sort of hold off judgment, like eventually after more breadth I'll come back later with more appreciation and try again
that's how I felt about analysis and topology at first, didn't care for them initially
mint patio
that's how I felt about analysis and topology at first, didn't care for them ini...
Analysis interests me the most but God do I suck at it...lol
static loom
felt like pointless abstraction, idk I eventually got a taste for pointless abstraction... err maybe "pointless" is the wrong word for talking about topology lol
you're still young too
mint patio
How did you do that?
It's a plugin from an exterior application, I'm not sure if I can discuss it here as it's technically against Discord's ToS. I can DM you about it if you'd like?
static loom
idk, for me my brain and how it solves problems has shifted a lot as I got a bit older
so like certain things seem clearer or make more sense, idk just time I guess maybe and change of taste
mint patio
Yeah I guess I just need to keep trying stuff out until my perspective shifts enough
To either give up on it if I find myself uninterested, or maybe it'll finally click and I'll stick with it
static loom
I think there's also a kind of illusion that all the stuff in textbooks was just worked out in the same time you're expecting to read it yourself when really it happened over the course of many years and different people and they're sort of compiling the most efficient/clever proofs into one book
mint patio
Mmm
static loom
like definitions often seem unituitive at first because people had sorted through a bunch of bad ones initially
proud olive
It's a plugin from an exterior application, I'm not sure if I can discuss it her...
Oh that's cool
mint patio
And that's why I've seen people recommend to take out parts of definitions and see why it would break them?
proud olive
Yeah i don't need it. Don't really know what I'm going to change my status into
mint patio
"break them" is wrong but you get what I'm trying to say I think
static loom
most people don't think "preimage of open sets is open is continuity" immediately haha
yeah definitely
mint patio
most people don't think "preimage of open sets is open is continuity" immediatel...
Yes :p I still don't get that either
static loom
like I kind of hated definitions when I was younger cause I'd fight it too much
like field axioms were obnoxious to me when I first learned it, seemed too arbitrary lol
static loom
I thought defining two binary operations was redundant when you had log/exp maps
well this is like, learning linear algebra first time not taking any abstract algebra at that point or something
definitions are kinda nice now, like if I ever get stuck I can kind of lean on them and just like, write out the relevant definitions and start combinatorially bashing the definitions together to see if I can make something stick lol
mint patio
That's what I did
static loom
plus you get more tricks of ways of thinking in your tool bag to try on stuff
idk the good thing about math is it's pretty much endless so there's always gonna be something to work towards and refine and think about no matter how simple, which is a good distraction from say, existential dread or whatever
mint patio
LOL
bronze pelican
True
proud olive
i guess my dream came true
But it's sadly not that impressive since the average grade was B 
wish the test was harder so that i could have known how well i actually would have done
oh well at least it feels like ive learned a lot from this course
guess that's what's the most important
ancient flame
Ohhh so that's what homomorphism means
yeah a homomorphism f satisfies the condition f(x+y)=f(x)+f(y)
where you can replace + with any operation
and the operation for the left hand side and right and side do not necessarily have to be equal
there are a few more details but that requires knowledge of group theory
neat lintel
Hello
shut fjord
Hello
neat lintel
LOL
fathom swallowBOT
valley
fervent pebble
and this is very interesting because whatever
but what exactly is more interesting about this
than like
$y^3 = x^4+ax^2+bx+c$
why don't we just slap new exponents and terms onto it?
fathom swallowBOT
valley
static loom
well one nice thing about the elliptic curve is if you intersect it with a line, it intersects in 3 spots, and you can work out that knowing it's rational at 2 points, the 3rd point will be rational, and you can think of this as a binary operation that ends up forming a commutative group
if you were to do it with that thing you wrote, you wouldn't be able to do that, although so what
you are welcome to study whatever you want but there are a handful of other good reasons to study elliptic curves
I guess one lame-ish type reason is in some sense we understand linear and quadratic polynomials fairly well, so cubic is basically the next level up haha
neat lintel
i'm back in discussion 2
Hello
neat lintel
Hello
hybrid canyon
kinda off topic but i just wanna ask
what's the appropriate research design for studies like "The Effects of ..." ?
it's a qualitative study
alpine kindle
yeah a homomorphism f satisfies the condition f(x+y)=f(x)+f(y)
i mean that's only group homomorphisms
in general you have to specifically preserve every operation (like inverses and specific constants eg identity)
it's just that for groups those are preserved anyway without specifying
neat lintel
I've been looking at Math for so long that the floor tiles are reminding me of a Coordinating Plane.
flint jolt
I'm knowledgeable and wise too <@709566816749486112> !
pls
i need knowledge, and answers for this exercise
proud olive
You could also open a channel y'know
flint jolt
will it rly be wrth onpening a channel?
proud olive
Its usually preferred since this channel isn't meant for math help
flint jolt
ok thx
neat lintel
hi cheeze
Sorry just saw the message, I'm not in a high level of Math compared to other people here.
flint jolt
i need to find theside lengths of an equilateral triangle with an area of 50. the method my teacher says i should use for this(this exercise strictly) is hernons formula. how do i reverse it from sides to area. to area to sides
ashen pike
i need to find theside lengths of an equilateral triangle with an area of 50. th...
under normal circumstances you wouldn't be able to, as herons formula requires 3 variables, but if you know it is equilateral you can just replace every variable in herons formula with x and then equate it to 50 and solve for x
flint jolt
under normal circumstances you wouldn't be able to, as herons formula requires 3...
thx
ashen pike
just remember the semiperimeter variable is not independent
flint jolt
btw, you don't need herons formula
no yea ik, my teacher said i had to do it for this one strictly
he says its not practical, but its to practice
ashen pike
i see
flint jolt
under normal circumstances you wouldn't be able to, as herons formula requires 3...
im so so sry for asking again
but how do i solve for x
ashen pike
but how do i solve for x
well what is herons formula; write it out here
flint jolt
well what is herons formula; write it out here
square root of s(s-a) (s-b) (s-c) right?
flint jolt
square root of s * 3s - 3x? im sry if i sound dumb
flint jolt
oh thats what u meant
sleek wing
square root of s*(s-x)^3, not 3s-3x
flint jolt
square root of s*(s-x)^3, not 3s-3x
sry
ashen pike
yep
therefore we get --> 50 = sqrt(3x/2 * x/2 * x/2 * x/2)
50 = sqrt((3*x^4)/16)
you can solve it from there
surreal sapphire
@bronze pelican i mentioned bhargava's work to my advisor and he sent me this to read: http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~hb3/publ/bf.pdf
the author states "Bhargava’s charming exposition [Bha2001] of Gauss composition appeared
just at the right time, and the present book contains an introduction to the classical
theory using Bhargava’s cubes", so maybe this is interesting to you as well
seems like a cool writeup and i am familiar with the author (and respect him a lot)
surreal sapphire
also i feel called out
kindred dawn
what do yall think about the monty hall problem
heady hemlock
What do y'all think about prealgebra like x - 44 = 7
torn willow
It exists
heady hemlock
You can do
x + 7 = 14
Like say
X = 14-7
That's 7
X = 7
A method really.
ancient flame
i mean that's only group homomorphisms
in general you have to specifically prese...
tru
stiff aurora
unknown length + length = 0
unknown area + unknown length + length = 0
unknown volume + unknown area + unknown length + length = 0
and for some reason you can't go any further
weird, i wonder if its cuz our math has some kind of bias towards 3D
sleek wing
It does not have a bias
stiff aurora
yea i mean i dont think it does, but it almost feels like it
like "whats so special about 3D?"
surreal sapphire
i dont even know what your message says
sleek wing
You can define a cross product that’s pretty special
surreal sapphire
that leads you to believe in a bias
sleek wing
But yeah your message is kind of word salad
surreal sapphire
7 dimensions are special, i agree
stiff aurora
lol
sometimes, 3D interpretations make things work well in maths, and for a brief moment i feel like theres something special about 3D
or something along those lines
and then i immedietly assume "no i must be biased or something"
candid solar
I feel like the fact that you can only define cross products in certain numbers of dimensions shows why cross products just kind of suck
surreal sapphire
i dont think so
sleek wing
You can’t
surreal sapphire
at least not in the same generalization
sleek wing
It’s to do with division algebras over the reals, once you have that many dimensions they fail, I think it’s the Jacobi property, and so you cannot define an exterior product
stiff aurora
oh rip
surreal sapphire
its related to the fact that there are 4 and 8 dimensional real division algebras
oh damn, wew said that
charred mortar
Sadge
stiff aurora
do you have an example?
i can't off the top of my head, but i guess one that i was referring to earlier was there being no quintic formula, but tbh that doesn't really apply imo
sleek wing
But there is a quartic formula
heady hemlock
do you have an example?
Do custom math equations with definitions exist?
sleek wing
So is 4 dimensions not the special one?
sleek wing
The only special dimension is 1
It’s 0 aktually 
stiff aurora
idk man, i have no intention of making my murky illogical feelings towards math any clearer
heady hemlock
It's 299792458
sleek wing
Oh look, roughly the speed of light in a vacuum
surreal sapphire
Do custom math equations with definitions exist?
i am not sure what you are asking but i am gonna go with yes
sleek wing
What a quip!
heady hemlock
What if the universe is 26 dimensional
surreal sapphire
i dont think anything would change
fathom swallowBOT
ryep
sleek wing
i dont think anything would change
Nooooo my sphere packing nooooo
surreal sapphire
in highschool our physics teacher talked about this with us
heady hemlock
Nooooo my sphere packing nooooo
Can I make a math equation and define it ? (Also can I make my own function?)
surreal sapphire
can a 3 dimensional being recognize living in say 4 dimensions
torn willow
Isn't cross product just shorthand for something you can do with just dot product and projections
sleek wing
Can I make a math equation and define it ? (Also can I make my own function?)
Sure but it’ll most likely be useless and/or non-well defined
stiff aurora
i think the first equations/functions i made was to "reverse the digits" and i thought it was really cool
heady hemlock
Sure but it’ll most likely be useless and/or non-well defined
On April fools sometime I'll define that 2+2=5 :troll:
alpine kindle
On April fools sometime I'll define that 2+2=5 :troll:
why
heady hemlock
It's just a joke
stiff aurora
wasnt there a celebrity that did that?
sleek wing
On April fools sometime I'll define that 2+2=5 :troll:
Trivial ring moment
heady hemlock
Summations go like EEEEEEEEEEEE
candid solar
In forth u can define 2 to be 3 and it’ll be stuck like that forever
heady hemlock
Trivial ring moment
Random indian guy defined 2+2=5
alpine kindle
In forth u can define 2 to be 3 and it’ll be stuck like that forever
forte
rose dock
cross product exists in only 3 and 7 dimensions and that's a result of the parallizability of the 3 and 7 sphere
sleek wing
Trivial ring moment
This isn’t technically correct, I should say “projection from Z into the trivial ring moment”
stiff aurora
Terrence Howard thinks 1x1 = 2, has a secret system called 'Terryology' and spends 17 hours a day making nameless plastic structures
his a fucking topologist
heady hemlock
This isn’t technically correct, I should say “projection from Z into the trivial...
x³+y³+z³=k
sleek wing
x³+y³+z³=k
Nice affine variety. Let us name them “elliptic planes” and harass loch with them
alpine kindle
Random indian guy defined 2+2=5
i bet nobody cared
surreal sapphire
This isn’t technically correct, I should say “projection from Z into the trivial...
Z is initial, so this is implied
sleek wing
Z is initial, so this is implied
I thought I’d make it explicit for the fans in the back
heady hemlock
Nice affine variety. Let us name them “elliptic planes” and harass loch with the...
I bet you can solve x * 2 = 138
i bet nobody cared
sleek wing
Look boss... as a fellow Azerbaijan fan (I fucking love the Caspian Sea) I regret to inform you that I can, in fact, NOT solve that equation
alpine kindle
I bet you can solve x * 2 = 138
assuming this is in F3, x=0
heady hemlock
Edit
x * 2 = 138
Step 1: say x = 138÷2
Step 2: do 138÷2
Step 3: say x = 69
So it's 69 * 2 = 138
Method I learned
arctic grove
assuming this is in F3, x=0
torn willow
no
Well (u \cross v) is just a vector x such that x.u=0 ,x.v=0 from these 2 equations you can get direction and from the equation that ||x|| = ||u|| ||v|| you can uniquely find the vector
torn willow
Well ok you get 2 possible cross products
You have to exclude one of them via convention
alpine kindle
wdym make an equation
karmic relic
Fellow azerbaijan fan?
heady hemlock
Like make math equations or math problems
stiff aurora
,w azerbaijan
fathom swallowBOT
alpine kindle
I want to make a math equation
if it's satisfiable then sure
heady hemlock
Example?
alpine kindle
satisfiable meaning there are solutions
stiff aurora
i mean solutions are overrated
just string a bunch of symbols together and see what happens
alpine kindle
satisfiable meaning there are solutions
it's a term from logic
heady hemlock
Maybe some college nerds
deep mango
I use tensor products on occasion
heady hemlock
More like dotcircling
stiff aurora
yea but ur a "college nerd" ryc
rose dock
Well (u \cross v) is just a vector x such that x.u=0 ,x.v=0 from these 2 equati...
you can find vectors perpendicular to two vectors, but you can't define a cross product in a way that's bilinear, produces an orthogonal vector, and follows the necessary magnitude properties in any space that isn't 3 or 7 dimensions
torn willow
Well (u \cross v) is just a vector x such that x.u=0 ,x.v=0 from these 2 equati...
Actually you would need
(u X v)+(v X u)=0 for this to truly be a "cross product"
torn willow
I see
alpine kindle
ryc what would you rate tensors out of 10
stiff aurora
not theoretical boffins like ryc
heady hemlock
⨁
alpine kindle
direct sum
heady hemlock
H
sleek wing
TENSORS
heady hemlock
Σ looks like a summation symbol
alpine kindle
azerbaijan fan what stage of maths education are you at
brave hollow
tensor densities
stiff aurora
guys i made a new operator: ⓞ
heady hemlock
azerbaijan fan what stage of maths education are you at
Stage 6: algebraic expressions, pi etc. Combined into one.
alpine kindle
Stage 6: algebraic expressions, pi etc. Combined into one.
like
what year of school
sleek wing
IS IT TENSOR TIME YET
IT'S TENSOR TIME
alpine kindle
IT'S TENSOR TIME
IT'S TENSOR TIME LET'S GO
deep mango
yea but ur a "college nerd" ryc
Barely!
deep mango
we need ***real*** people using tensor products
You use tensor products in farming all the time
stiff aurora
fuck
heady hemlock
out of curiosity
Not revealing any of my personal information
torn willow
I wonder when carpenters will be replaced
alpine kindle
age isn't personal information
stiff aurora
well @heady hemlock there you go!
ryc uses tensor products when farming
ol farmer ryc
come along to ryc ranch
stiff aurora
age isn't personal information
it is lol
deep mango
see?
stiff aurora
damn
alpine kindle
Not revealing any of my personal information
we have to know to make sure you're complying with the rules
deep mango
that is not a good edit
Someone made it for me a while ago
So you can bring it up with them
heady hemlock
⊕
alpine kindle
<:sully:651816820122189834>
i like the new pfp
brave hollow
I see
deep mango
Got anymore pixels?
no that webpage is horrible
I'm not sure how it would be made better
neat lintel
ryc
deep mango
Hmm
neat lintel
hello
deep mango
Hello
neat lintel
welcome to our humble server
karmic relic
Really cold take but terry tao for life
alpine kindle
Not revealing any of my personal information
are you younger than 13
that's all that's important
torn willow
Or 16 in certain countries
stiff aurora
i would never say my age anywhere online
heady hemlock
i would never say my age anywhere online
Same
velvet dagger
Responding in this way inadvertently answered ally's question. But the reason this came up is that discord math server is large and if we allow people under 13 we can get shut down
No hatred for kids
stiff aurora
im sure some peopel are comfortable with it, but i take a hardline approach to prevent sharing any personal info. probably an old habit from back when everyone used to get doxxed e-z
and when i used to be concerned about ip-grabbers
stiff aurora
oh ok
velvet dagger
"If I say my age accidentally then I get banned"
You shouldn't have told us this sentence
stiff aurora
ikr lol
velvet dagger
Because that only happens if you're less than 13
karmic relic
Im sorry this happened to you
stiff aurora
tho second line kinda backs it up?
velvet dagger
So you've confirmed it unfortunately for yourself
karmic relic
See you in a few years
stiff aurora
I think the line "This is what every server does" could save them?
alpine kindle
come back when you're 13
stiff aurora
i mean i guess its a matter of time til they fuck up
velvet dagger
And I am literally required now to ban you that I know. So let me give you some advice here in the event that you join other servers or try to return to some of your existing servers (not this one ofc) with alts
Nobody actually cares personally about the < 13 rule for moral reasons, it's strictly because if we, as a larger server, allow people that we know are less than 13 years old
Discord will shut this place down
However we're not required to be investigators
heady hemlock
I save ppl that are fit for me as friends so yeah
velvet dagger
Just that once we know
stiff aurora
tbh its also that we can kinda tell from the way "someone acts"
which is pretty much what ally took note of
heady hemlock
But where can I define / make equations / math problems
velvet dagger
We have to act. So sadly I am required to ban you but going forward, keep it plausible that you're more than 13. Don't reveal even that you're year 6, because then this immediately puts suspicious
ryep: yes but plausible deniability is fine
Again we don't have to investigate or act on suspicion of maturity
karmic relic
But where can I define / make equations / math problems
Go on top.gg
heady hemlock
Go on top.gg
But they might also include that rule to be 13+
karmic relic
Its an easy place to find stuff like that
stiff aurora
although in my opinion they're still in plausible deniability, the fact that they haven't rebutted to our claim that they're < 13, is really not playing well to their defence.
karmic relic
Pretend that you are year 8
velvet dagger
Even discord doesn't do it for moral reasons, they just aren't allowed to collect info on you if you're so young
stiff aurora
one of the first lessons i learned on the internet
karmic relic
O7
velvet dagger
Anyway sorry but... good luck on keeping it under wraps going forward
karmic relic
Just an unfortunate kid
stiff aurora
tbh i got traumatized the first time that happened to me, was much worse than this situation
wasn't like super terrible, but very embarassing
karmic relic
Goodbye
stiff aurora
i think they got it easy
velvet dagger
I mean yeah we don't wanna be a dick to him about it
karmic relic
And thats how it should be
stiff aurora
i mean i think that was the best way to handle it
velvet dagger
Esp since officially there's no moral anything about that rule, it's all just legal/technical shit
alpine kindle
true
velvet dagger
So it's like yeah sorry it's gotta be this way but it is what it is
karmic relic
Yea
stiff aurora
let this be an example to all in #prealg-and-algebra
velvet dagger
tbh i got traumatized the first time that happened to me, was much worse than th...
This wasn't within the past year was it? 
alpine kindle
i only asked about it to see what they had been learning 
proud olive
I'm gonna miss him
stiff aurora
do u remember tinychat?
velvet dagger
Not offhand
stiff aurora
fucking terrifying
onyx idol
He was our best man 😭
alpine kindle
oh
stiff aurora
i mean tbh that guy was being a bit of a troll
velvet dagger
Nah but jokes aside I mean, he should've been more careful
alpine kindle
I can't tell what level of sarcasm that was
velvet dagger
Lol it's pretty Schrodinger sarcasm
Like on the one hand obviously it's an unfortunate situation for him
proud olive
i mean tbh that guy was being a bit of a troll
Every kid is
velvet dagger
But on the other he is on paper breaking the rules. It's not a moral rule but then the game is don't get caught
And he got caught that's on him
proud olive
Glad I'm not a mod
stiff aurora
Every kid is
i mean some just come in 'ask exam questions' thinly veiled as 'homework help plz' and just leave
i don't mind them tbh
alpine kindle
did i do something wrong 😨
stiff aurora
no its fine
proud olive
Ok not absolutely every single kid in the world is like that but you get my point
stiff aurora
i kinda wanted them gone tbh
stiff aurora
Ok not absolutely every single kid in the world is like that but you get my poin...
i sometimes do think that almost every single kid is tho
velvet dagger
Nah you were fine it was incidental
velvet dagger
Like it's not on us to not accidentally figure out someone's under 13
alpine kindle
the year 6 bit was incidental
but like in some countries that's 12-13
so i could have just assumed
stiff aurora
i wonder if i'd let my kids on the internet at 13. tbh i probably wouldnt' be able to stop them
proud olive
i wonder if i'd let my kids on the internet at 13. tbh i probably wouldnt' be ab...
Only if i had somewhat control over what kind of communities he were joining
stiff aurora
yea i'd like that
i know that i would've absolutely hated if my parents did that to me, but i'd really want to
velvet dagger
So here's my take. We're not required to be investigators until there's already suspicion. And in principle someone can hide it perfectly
stiff aurora
yea it would, but i doubt they'd feel grateful (like i wouldn't myself)
proud olive
And if something goes wrong then ally is automatically the scapegoat
Glad we could figure this out
velvet dagger
If we want we could in principle go out of our way to search and destroy. I'm not particularly interested unless the person is a problem. In which case I want them gone for that reason
alpine kindle
what? 😨
stiff aurora
i mean that guy did a terrible job at hiding it
alpine kindle
wdym I'm the scapegoat
velvet dagger
But on paper they are the ones breaking the rules
So it is their job to do the hiding
stiff aurora
if he claimed at least once, that he was "im over 13", they would've survived
velvet dagger
If they get baited
proud olive
No I'm joking. Don't think youve done anything wrong ally
velvet dagger
It's on them for being baited
stiff aurora
i mean they fucked up
alpine kindle
it feels like it's my fault
stiff aurora
no its not lol
proud olive
That's kinda why kids under 13 shouldnt always be on the web
stiff aurora
all he had to do was say "i'm over 13" and it would've been all over
proud olive
They don't always know what to say and what not to say
velvet dagger
I don't think you need to feel guilty for being the baitor unless you're a dick about it which I don't think you were
alpine kindle
yeah but i was the one prodding
stiff aurora
they didn't have enough experience on the internet its on them
they've learned a lesson on the internet
it would've happened anyway one way or another
alpine kindle
my intentions were to make sure they were following ToS when i could have just left it
stiff aurora
ally its not a big deal, and its not ur fault
they fucked up, and it would've happened anyway
probably would've been a mod that noticed, or they would've outed themselves another way
proud olive
At least we now know not to make ally mod. Cuz then 50% of the server would be purged
stiff aurora
lol
as much as i'd like to tell you about the time when i was in their shoes, it's too embarassing
i really do think they got it easy, so i don't think it wasn't that bad for them either
proud olive
Sorry, don't take a single word i say seriously @alpine kindle
velvet dagger
At least we now know not to make ally mod. Cuz then 50% of the server would be p...
Assuming 50% of the server is < 13... Sounds like something a 12 year old would do
velvet dagger
proud olive
Thought u said i wasn't a prodigy 🤨
stiff aurora
like the amount of people who talk in different channels
like you could "assume" their age from that
velvet dagger
Just because you're 12 doesn't mean you're any good
stiff aurora
ARE YOU SURE?!?!?
velvet dagger
Sounds like something a 12 year old would say to throw us off
stiff aurora
yea
alpine kindle
ban everyone who only talks in #prealg-and-algebra 
proud olive
stiff aurora
i mean if they said "I'm 69" i would've banned instantly
i wanna ban all those people in #competition-math
always hated those comp maths kids at school, they were never nice to me
proud olive
Yeah they got an ego
stark charm
Most math people have a big ego
charred mortar
They do?
proud olive
Yeah i was just about to say that
stiff aurora
especially the ones who do algebraic geometry and category theory
proud olive
I'm no better tbh
stark charm
besides big ego behaviors
stiff aurora
i genuinely cannot handle their massive ego
stark charm
I’d have thought that math ppl would’ve had lower ego
you can say simple phrases to check their ego
stiff aurora
no math people have massive egos
arctic grove
i wanna ban all those people in <#433980473367330826>
based
arctic grove
researching math is useless
charred mortar
Heh
stark charm
<:sully:651816820122189834>
qed
stiff aurora
look out for elitist chumps
charred mortar
Athough I dont see how does that mean big ego
stark charm
if you have to emote as a reaction then that is easy proof
it doesnt mean big ego
reactions usually show the ego
charred mortar
Oh I see
stark charm
it’s obviously a generalization
arctic grove
reactions usually show the ego
charred mortar
Yeah
stark charm
but people in sciences tend to have big egos
stark charm
nothing wrong about it but usually you have to tread carefully
in my experience its just undergrads ive met
stiff aurora
whenever you hear words like: "something"morphism, manifolds, (topo/homo/...)ology, "something"oid
you know ur talking to one
stark charm
and some professors
charred mortar
Because I used to have a big ego but it got deflated by 50 needles
stark charm
whenever you hear words like: "something"morphism, manifolds, (topo/homo/...)olo...
nah
its just language
stark charm
that has nothing to do with big ego
charred mortar
Yeah that’s just standard math language
stiff aurora
easiest way to check if they have a big ego is they have "algebraic geometry" or category theory" roles.
stark charm
behavior like gatekeeping the language
arctic grove
tfw talking about topology makes me an egoist
charred mortar
Although I would admittedly find it a bit wonky if you’re using it with a layperson
Since at that point you’re probably just posturing
arctic grove
thats wonky indeed
stark charm
Although I would admittedly find it a bit wonky if you’re using it with a layper...
yeah thats a sign of big ego or complete unawareness
if you dont know your audience and you talk as if they should know
dense belfry
whenever you hear words like: "something"morphism, manifolds, (topo/homo/...)olo...
You can just... Look the words up
stark charm
or if you do know your audience
dense belfry
If you wanted to
stark charm
neat lintel
happy pride month emma
stiff aurora
i mean if someone says "it's isomorphic" in a pre-university channel, i'd think they're being a bit much
instead of "its same bro"
dense belfry
Happy pride month 
stark charm
i mean if someone says "it's isomorphic" in a pre-university channel, i'd think ...
people here do this
charred mortar
Honestly though if you’re studying math you should eventually get used to fancy-looking words
But yeah for pre-university it’d sound pretentious
arctic grove
i mean if someone says "it's isomorphic" in a pre-university channel, i'd think ...
thats a bit much yeah obviously
dense belfry
You guys are being gross and overgeneralizing
stark charm
i mean if someone says "it's isomorphic" in a pre-university channel, i'd think ...
there are still cases where people are rude to you because you do not know something they assume you should
stark charm
You guys are being gross and overgeneralizing
i said i was generalizing
charred mortar
You guys are being gross and overgeneralizing
Fair enough
stark charm
if i were to say businessmen have big egos you wouldnt be saying this
because stereotypically they do
charred mortar
Fwiw my statements are meant to apply to a very small proportion of mathematicians
dense belfry
I mean that's a different thing entirely
stiff aurora
i do think maths students stereotypically have big egos tho
but thats just my opinion
dense belfry
You are not in a business man server
Saying that business men have big egos
You are in a math server
stark charm
I see it happen somewhat often here
stiff aurora
i think 2nd year uni students and usually 3rd have big egos
stark charm
and irl
charred mortar
In general though these statements are certainly inaccurate ofc
dense belfry
And attributing elitism to the fact that people are just studying things
Instead of behavior
Is fucked
stiff aurora
lol
charred mortar
Like at the end of the day you should just judge a person after you know them instead of using some overly general preconception
stark charm
fucked?
stiff aurora
no ones saying "if u study X, then big ego"
dense belfry
You literally said that
stiff aurora
where?
stark charm
i said math people have big egos as a generalization
dense belfry
whenever you hear words like: "something"morphism, manifolds, (topo/homo/...)olo...
Here
charred mortar
no math people have massive egos
I mean you did state this
dense belfry
especially the ones who do algebraic geometry and category theory
Here
stiff aurora
idk man it seems like u aren't taking obvious social cues
charred mortar
Honestly I’d expect otherwise the more you study
stark charm
Honestly I’d expect otherwise the more you study
yeah thats what ive noticed
charred mortar
Like all my professors are humble
stark charm
people usually drop their egos
stiff aurora
easiest way to check if they have a big ego is they have "algebraic geometry" or...
^this ones good tho
stark charm
i have a good amount of humble nice professors
charred mortar
Ryep your takes are just bad
stark charm
its definitely not gross?
stiff aurora
i guess u have a different sense of humor
stark charm
if someone mistakes you as elitist or big ego just brush it off
it should happen often
since popular belief is that math people are elitist and have big ego
the popular belief is unfair
charred mortar
since popular belief is that math people are elitist and have big ego
Case in point being ryep here
stark charm
but i dont know if id say gross. you definitely have to have experienced being misjudged
dense belfry
I have
stark charm
you think its gross?
dense belfry
Yes
stark charm
thats an extreme reaction imo
neat lintel
did anyone asked???????
charred mortar
But yeah a lot of popular beliefs are unfair, although I do think it should be called out since many of them are just flat-out wrong
stark charm
all my family can think math is elitist i cant say its gross behavior
stark charm
thats gross?
compromise and understanding are good things if you value having a family
dense belfry
Lol
stark charm
you cant just stonewall everyone and pass quick judgement
stiff aurora
this is getting weird lol
stark charm
i dont take shit from my family?
dense belfry
Yes
stark charm
stonewalling is an extrapolation i guess
stiff aurora
look emma, sorry if that offended you, but by all means it was a joke, ill try be mindful or a bit more obvious next time i joke about category theorists and algebraic geometers
dense belfry
I mean you should realize that a lot of people online can't tell when something's a joke or not
Especially on a math server
stiff aurora
i'll put 🤣 next time
dense belfry
And especially when you are echoing common misconceptions
stark charm
emma i think the problem i have with you is that you are saying its gross
i dont think thats going to change anyones mind
dense belfry
I mean
mint patio
velvet dagger
People who do automorphic forms are actually kinda arrogant
dense belfry
If someone says something I think is gross
velvet dagger
But it's deserved
dense belfry
I'm just going to call it out
velvet dagger
dense belfry
And if I'm wrong I'll apologize
mint patio
Dami just joining in 
stark charm
i never interpretted big ego thing as offensive
stiff aurora
i didn't realize "category theorists" and "algebraic geometers' having a big ego was common misconception
stark charm
it just represents a passion about something
dense belfry
I mean there's a lot of stereotypes around people doing AG and category theory
charred mortar
Perhaps “confident” would be a better word?
stiff aurora
i alwasys thought the "set theorists" were the oens being discriminated against
velvet dagger
Are there? I've seen the UGCT stuff but
mint patio
Why prejudice others for what they study in the first place 
dense belfry
Yeah the ugct stuff is the main one
stark charm
Why prejudice others for what they study in the first place <:sully:969798583111...
bruh its in the language
if someone makes a whole new language and you have no clue what they are saying you will prejudice
mint patio
bruh its in the language
What do you mean? I've only been skimming along so sorry if I've missed something
stark charm
its normal behavior
velvet dagger
Among working mathematicians, at least I don't see any stereotypes about the people studying
mint patio
if someone makes a whole new language and you have no clue what they are saying ...
Huh??
neat lintel
awesome i didn't find it funny
velvet dagger
Maybe about the math itself being super abstract
stark charm
Among working mathematicians, at least I don't see any stereotypes about the peo...
i agree
its mostly students
dense belfry
idk there are weird subcultures
alpine kindle
model theory is very cool
i have discovered
velvet dagger
But other than UGCT stuff which is tbh... A phenomenon
velvet dagger
I feel like most people don't diss most other people
alpine kindle
yes i do like enderton
arctic grove
People who do automorphic forms are actually kinda arrogant
sloth, whats an automorphic form
mint patio
sloth, whats an automorphic form
do thing on thing and it turns back into thing!
(I think)
stiff aurora
i wanna be like jech one day!
candid solar
Any other people with disabilities have really bad problems with their university math department
dense belfry
I mean I personally didn't do category theory for a while because people were weird about it
charred mortar
Actually is CT in undergrad that bad? Since I’ve seen it pop up occasionally
stark charm
Any other people with disabilities have really bad problems with their universit...
what type of disability?
arctic grove
do thing on thing and it turns back into thing!
torn willow
Actually is CT in undergrad that bad? Since I’ve seen it pop up occasionally
I guess it's more like you don't see why CT is useful
stark charm
I have really bad ocd but why does that matter to you
you asked a question i was addressing the specifics
velvet dagger
They're nice functions on the upper half plane from a Fourier analytic angle which often carry interesting arithmetic data
stark charm
I’m just asking in general
no ill answer
velvet dagger
UGCT is undergrad category theorist
charred mortar
But it feels like some advanced undergrad algebra texts have a little bit of CT too
candid solar
Like not being accommodated for instance
dense belfry
The idea is people doing abstraction masturbation or whatever
And not knowing basic things
stark charm
Like not being accommodated for instance
well yeah
dense belfry
That aren't category theory
alpine kindle
it seems category theory looks at the context of arbitrary objects
whereas model theory looks at how arbitrary objects are constructed to satisfy logical sentences
velvet dagger
It's a meme that's used to describe undergrads that get real into category theory but don't actually learn anything in the subject other than words
stark charm
i usually have to ask for more things or go to office hours a lot
velvet dagger
Look it up and you'll find the meme
charred mortar
Ah I see
alpine kindle
it seems category theory looks at the context of arbitrary objects
whereas model...
they're both cool in their generality
torn willow
I don't get it. How do you get into CT without doing literally anything else
dense belfry
I'm reading Goldblatt rn
stark charm
I don't get it. How do you get into CT without doing literally anything else
slowly ease way in
dense belfry
It's lit
velvet dagger
Mainly that it feels general
stark charm
learn about functors after being introduced to homotopy or something
alpine kindle
You can do both ally
yeah but like cat theory usually needs more background to get the examples
stark charm
and then talk about categories
alpine kindle
specifically topology
velvet dagger
They're like whoa everything is a category etc
dense belfry
I guess
stark charm
and get a lot of examples
velvet dagger
Most people described by that meme don't even get far into category theory lol
alpine kindle
like topology is almost a requirement for learning cat theory from most books
it feels
arctic grove
like topology is almost a requirement for learning cat theory from most books
i thought it would be algebra
stark charm
lol
charred mortar
Ngl I had a bit of a phase where I wanted to do everything as generally as possible
stark charm
i thought it would be algebra
both or neither
alpine kindle
ok well algebra is half-necessary for like everything
candid solar
My real analysis professor refused to give me extended time for exams because I couldn’t take them at the same time as other students due to a busy schedule, suggesting i might use my disability as a pretense for cheating. Nothing happened though, because he’s famous, and I partly blame it on elitism in math and if people want to be sensitive about it maybe use it as motivation to take it more seriously
It’s one of the reasons I left college
dense belfry
Anyway Alison let me know if you want to discuss enderton exercises with me
At some point
alpine kindle
yeah I've been doing some of them
stark charm
what is endedton
alpine kindle
a logic textbook
stark charm
oh nice
stark charm
a logic textbook
what you do so far
dense belfry
Oh wild
alpine kindle
I'm on chapter 2 already
alpine kindle
2.2
stark charm
It’s one of the reasons I left college
sad to hear
so you lose the math community stuffs
alpine kindle
yeah
stark charm
to be honest if you dont involve yourself in math communities in college you always have online
alpine kindle
I'll be able to somewhere down the line
stark charm
but online is usually worse
dense belfry
I was planning on talking to clerk about proofs and types by Giraud
But I keep getting too anxious
stiff aurora
if there are no math communities in college, the books are always there
dense belfry
And I also spent all of this week reading Goldblatt instead
stark charm
the point of communities is for practice communcating math
dense belfry
Maybe next week will be a Giraud week
stiff aurora
i feel like i know the authors of books more than some people from college
dense belfry
Yeah it's a big one
Lots of information
Is that the one where they develop basic model theory or basic proof theory
I forget
Both of those sections are really big
Chapter 2 is the majority of that book I think
And then chapter 3 is decidability/undecidability/incompleteness
Which is neat
And is what I study to some extent
In grad school
alpine kindle
Is that the one where they develop basic model theory or basic proof theory
model theory
alpine kindle
2.4 is proof theory i think
wouldn't this be a monomorphism, not necessarily an isomorphism
alpine kindle
oh
alpine kindle
oh i see they then put isomorphism onto B
dense belfry
Yeah
torn willow
Can I always reduce an isomorphism to "structure preserving bijection"?
alpine kindle
i mean that's what it is
surreal sapphire
only true in concrete categories
alpine kindle
i didn't say bijective morphism i said bijective homomorphism
torn willow
Like what's the problem with just calling a homomorphism a function
I remember that part being somewhat problematic
alpine kindle
Like what's the problem with just calling a homomorphism a function
functions don't necessarily preserve structure
surreal sapphire
also you have categories where bijective morphisms arent isomorphisms 
stark charm
also you have categories where bijective morphisms arent isomorphisms <:nozoomi:...
examples please
oh wait
nevermind
alpine kindle
eg a function between semigroups would just be a function between their sets, whereas a semigroup homomorphism would be a function f where forall a,b f(ab) = f(a)f(b)
surreal sapphire
topological spaces, say the map from [0, 2pi) to S^1 given by t -> e^it
stark charm
yeah
surreal sapphire
yes
stark charm
top is concrete though?
alpine kindle
so you have a bimorphism
stark charm
oh you crossed it out
surreal sapphire
no its correct
you have categories where isomorphisms cant be interpreted as bijective functions on sets
stark charm
oh yeah i dont know any good examples
surreal sapphire
same lmao
surreal sapphire
injectiviity and surjectivity is not invariant under homotopy
so that works as a counterexample
my point is that it depends on what notion of isomorphism you are working with
alpine kindle
sleek wagon
it's not like I need help about a homework
I just wanna know how to calculate an overall percentage
alpine kindle
wdym by overall percentage
sleek wagon
I've been seeing some of the tiktoks and they be giving some numbers
99 like that 40 to that 60 to this
then *overall [number] "
alpine kindle
i still don't get what you mean
sleek wagon
what
this is what I saw
then some bunch of random numbers
then an overall
I wanted to chat in #discussion but I think they didn't saw my chat
so I went here
proud olive
is that why you joined a math server @sleek wagon ?
sleek wagon
is that why you joined a math server <@808160464621535243> ?
no?
proud olive
i dont judge
sleek wagon
I've learned a few more
someone told me how calculus works but I still don't know HOW it actually works
(by numbers)
proud olive
calculus can be pretty hard to grasp yeah
sleek wagon
so... how to calculate an overall percentage
proud olive
guess you'd have to study real analysis for that
proud olive
it's more fun if you try to figure it out yourself
sleek wagon
mode mean media
proud olive
try to experiment and see if you get the same number
sleek wagon
it's more fun if you try to figure it out yourself
I mean this is why I joined to this math server to also learn because if I try to learn it by myself I'm gonna waste my time getting distracted on my phone so why not get tutored by a phone in discord
proud olive
that's what math is all about
problemsloving
im currently teaching u math in that sense
sleek wagon
yeah but if someone tutored me it'll be more sensable for me
proud olive
but like fine if you just want the answer then i can just say it
sleek wagon
but like fine if you just want the answer then i can just say it
abt on how to calculate an overall percentage?
proud olive
ye
proud olive
its not hard
proud olive
do you know how to find the average
sleek wagon
do you know how to find the average
maybe that's how?
sleek wagon
to find the average?
proud olive
yeah but why 12, why not 11 or 2
sleek wagon
I tried calculating this image and I got 27.3
sleek wagon
yeah but why 12, why not 11 or 2
because just 12?
proud olive
there is a logical reason to it
sleek wagon
what is it
tried to divide it into 11 and got 29.81
tried dividing it into 2 and got 164
????
proud olive
nice, well youre making progress
proud olive
but say we have two numbers, for example 2 and 12
sleek wagon
I mean that's what the user wrote
proud olive
do you know what number is equally far away from 2 as it is from 12
like right in the middle of those two
sleek wagon
6?
sleek wagon
it's odd
proud olive
if i add 5 to 7 i get 12
and if i subtract 5 from 7 i get 2
that's how you can check that your answer is correct
sleek wagon
I'm trying really hard to process what you mean
proud olive
we wanted to find a number between 2 and 12 right
sleek wagon
yeah, just like u said
proud olive
basically if i drew a number line i would see that 12 is 5 numbers to the right of 7
and 2 is 5 numbers to the left of seven
so the distance is equal
sleek wagon
nono, I don't get how we went to calculating an overall average into a basic math
that's what I was not getting
proud olive
well what we just found now is the average of 2 and 12
which was 7
and we also see that 2+12 = 14
14/2 = 7
i divide by two because there are two numbers that is being added
sleek wagon
i divide by two because there are two numbers that is being added
if there are something I still don't get like this, I'd likely just get tutored by my cousin
thanks for still trying to help me though
proud olive
just getting the answer wont help you get better at math
but yeah i see that youre kinda running out of patient with me
sleek wagon
just getting the answer wont help you get better at math
what
what getting the answer won't help me get better at math?
proud olive
you almost did it correctly
proud olive
what getting the answer won't help me get better at math?
nope
proud olive
no if i just instantly give you the answer to a problem then you wont really be training your problemsoving skills
proud olive
yeah
proud olive
bye
sleek wagon
bye²
proud olive
do you enjoy math btw @sleek wagon ?
sleek wagon
do you enjoy math btw <@808160464621535243> ?
neutrally yes and no
it's like at the same time I wanna learn math and also the same time I don't wanna learn math
50/50
proud olive
math can be really frustrating at times too tho
sleek wagon
yeah, that's what makes me don't wanna learn math
proud olive
yeah understandable
sleek wagon
but I'll also need math for coding
if I wanna make a game
since game needs math
game needs a countable currencies
soo
yeah
I need math to make a game
but intentionally, I quit coding
proud olive
damn
sleek wagon
I'm gonna continue coding once I get my own laptop
proud olive
oh i see
sleek wagon
damn
it's not like I fully quit
I'm just tired using my brothers laptop
plus all I do in my brothers laptop is play ges
games
but I'll guess serious with coding once I get my own
proud olive
and i guess it's also fun to see that the code you write works
proud olive
it's the same with math
it's not the frustration that makes it fun, but getting closer to a solution
and eventually finding it
sleek wagon
i just made this long time ago
proud olive
same as it's not fun to be debugging a code
but man it feels like heaven when you've cracked it
sleek wagon
it's like "what's next after [number] then if you got it right then it'll say "very math pro" then if u go it wrong it'll say "very math noob"
I created that since like November
proud olive
nice
sleek wagon
idk if this file is the hardest one I made or the other one
the other is in my other phone
where all the codes are in
sleek wagon
i just made this long time ago
this one, I just downloaded it thru my other phone
proud olive
neat