serious-discussion

[deep mango]

no john i do not care about this problem anymore

[sick burrow]

if anyone spoils A1

[deep mango]

i care abut the analysis problems

[light needle]

smh i found a nice sol to it ok

[deep mango]

A1 looks so poggy

[light needle]

A1 is trivial

anyhow gtg

[deep mango]

l hospitals rule

[sick burrow]

I will punch them 578 times

exactly

[sick burrow]

ok eryc

here's A2

let g(x) = $\lim_{r\to 0}((x+1)^{r+1} - x^{r+1})^{1/r}$. Evaluate $\lim_{x\to \infty} \frac{g(x)}{x}$

[fathom swallow]

Kanga Gang Mole (sleepy agent)

[neat lintel]

if it's 2 less punches it'll be 26^2 punches

nvm am dumb

[sick burrow]

nah it's 7*288*2 + 2 punches

wait no

288*2 + 2

the 7 is elsewhere

eryc tell me if you solve B1

the applied math prof was doing the test along with us

I saw him holding up his hands to imitate a rotating square

as I was doing the same

and then eventually he sighed and pulled out his computer

[mortal igloo]

He didn't even try a double integral?

[sick burrow]

the trick is what integral

he tried a bunch of things

[mortal igloo]

Well given an angle, you can probably compute fraction of acceptable area

then average that fraction from 0 to pi/2 or something maybe?

Same idea with Buffon's needle problem

Someone can tell me if this doesn't work because the acceptable area is too hard to compute

[mild pebble]

so my friend's solution to B1 was neat but a bit sketchy

[sick burrow]

go on

[deep mango]

wait i mixed up A1 and B1 before

B1 was the poggy one

oops

A1 is hoppy frock, fuck that

frog

[mild pebble]

when you throw a square onto the board, its center lands in some other square. now for fixed angle theta which your random square is rotated by, consider the acceptable area for the square to land in. the claim is that for fixed theta and fixed square on the grid, the green square is the maximal such area, so from translating the random square around, we see it lands in an acceptable configuration iff its center is contained in a center square of side length sin(theta)+cos(theta)-1 within the green one

[mortal igloo]

Hey that's exactly what my solution sketch was

[mild pebble]

so i did not solve that problem. i saw geometry and noped right out onto B2, which was worse

[mortal igloo]

omg it took me so long to reduce B4 to proving that sqrt(-1) is a Fibonacci number mod a prime Fibonacci number which is greater than 3 (and therefore is 1 mod 4 and so -1 is a quadratic residue)

I'm pretty rusty

[oblique current]

2021 being 43*47 is pure cruelty

[mortal igloo]

Oh the problems are on AoPS forums

yippee

[oblique current]

I could probably have got A5 if only I didn't fail to find that factorisation and assumed it was prime 😢

[wild jay]

does someone have A3?

[mortal igloo]

The pdf has all the problems

if that's what you're asking

I think I might have a one-liner for B5?

[wild jay]

I mean did someone solve it

[mortal igloo]

Did anyone here solve B5

[oblique current]

Apparently you can associate a directed graph to the matrix mod 2 and show it's acyclic

[amber mirage]

hi anyone here with a background in statistics? I have a question and if anyone can verify my logic, that would be immensely helpful

[mortal igloo]

I took the linear transformation approach for B5

Take everything over $\bF_2$ (so reduce everything mod 2). If $A$ is very odd, then for each of the $2^n$ standard subspaces $W\subseteq V$, the composition $\text{pr}_W\circ A|_W$ is an isomorphism from $W$ to $W$. Then the $k$th power of this is an isomorphism too. But since $\text{pr}_W$ is the identity on $W$, $(\text{pr}_W\circ A|_W)^k=\text{pr}_W\circ A^k|_W$.

[fathom swallow]

Icy001

[mortal igloo]

Hmm let me think about the last equality a bit more

[oblique current]

I don't think the last equality is true

Because $i_W \circ \text{pr}_W$ is not the identity

[fathom swallow]

radiateur-man

[oblique current]

Where $i_W$ is the inclusion of W inside V

[fathom swallow]

radiateur-man

[mortal igloo]

Ye

If you start with a vector in W, then apply A then project to W then apply A again

this does not have to be the same as applying A twice then projecting to W

However, all I did is rephrase the problem in linear algebra language, so actually it is true!

I just have to work a bit harder to prove it

[oblique current]

What is true?

[mortal igloo]

Not the last equality but the fact that pr_W composed with A^k|_W is an isomorphism

[oblique current]

Yeah that's the goal of the problem. But I don't have the impression that formulating is as linear maps makes it simpler

[mortal igloo]

You might be right if this is special to the standard subspaces

[oblique current]

Like, I don't think if you focus on a fixed W the result is true, you need the determinant to be 1 for ALL submatrices to obtain the result

[mortal igloo]

Also what about fields of characteristic not 2

Replacing "determinant 1" with "determinant not equal to 0"

[oblique current]

I don't think it's true then, take
1 1
-1 1

[mortal igloo]

Ok, yep this is an acyclic graph problem

So much for looking like linear algebra

There isn't even a decent linear algebra generalization

[mortal igloo]

Ok I think I solved A3 @ whoever wanted the solution

Sketch: we are looking for the existence of vectors $v_1,v_2,v_3$ such that $|v_i|^2=N$ and $v_i\cdot v_j=-\frac N3$ for $1\leq i<j\leq 3$. This is equivalent to the existence of an integral matrix $M$ such that [M^TM=\frac N3\begin{pmatrix}3&-1&-1\-1&3&-1\-1&-1&3\end{pmatrix}.]The determinant of the right hand side is $(N/3)^3\cdot 16$, which must be a square in order for such $M$ to exist. Therefore $N$ works only if $N$ is 3 times a perfect square. The converse is easy

[fathom swallow]

Icy001

[eager trout]

Hello

[mortal igloo]

Mis-tag lol

[mortal igloo]

I guess I should have tagged this one

[eager trout]

WAIT it's putnam today isn't it

[wild jay]

omg thx

[mortal igloo]

B6 is actually pretty nice, although hard

Like the question is not contrived

[ancient flame]

I wonder if I should do the putnam when I go to college

damn I could do next year's putnam

[mortal igloo]

Damn you're not in college, this makes me feel old

[ancient flame]

lmao

you're a senior citizen

[leaden skiff]

how old are you?

[ancient flame]

69

[crystal dagger]

How was the putnam for anyone who took it

[mortal igloo]

91

[fair mural]

icy how old are you i’m actually curious

if you don’t mind me asking

[mortal igloo]

I'm so old I have a PhD in math

[leaden skiff]

fr?

[fair mural]

i’d guess maybe 30 something

am i close

[ancient flame]

actually just looked at the putnam questions from last year, now I don't wanna do it lmao

[mortal igloo]

Do 30-somethings use discord though

[fair mural]

yes

[leaden skiff]

i knew a 40 year old

[mortal igloo]

Hmmmm

[fair mural]

however old you are having a phd in math must be really cool

[ancient flame]

I'm the vice president of my school's may honor society, so with my power I decided to have my school begin to participate in competitions

[leaden skiff]

yeah but what field

[mortal igloo]

Algebraic number theory!

[ancient flame]

we did our first one last week

it was fun

[mortal igloo]

Dam that is cool

[ancient flame]

rocket city math league competition

[mortal igloo]

Hey that name is familiar to me

[ancient flame]

oh rly

[mortal igloo]

Some AoPSers mentioned it when I used AoPS

[ancient flame]

it's a group test, 15 questions in 30 minutes

[leaden skiff]

what exactly is algebraic here?

[ancient flame]

unlimited amount of people allowed in the group

but only 4 other people showed up lol

[fair mural]

i don’t even know what algebraic means in a normal context lol

[mortal igloo]

Well maybe I can contrast it with analytic number theory: my thesis did not have any $\log\log\log n$'s

[fathom swallow]

Icy001

[ancient flame]

logloglogloglogloglog

[sick burrow]

what does "normal" mean in a normal context?

[leaden skiff]

isnt the opposite of analytic usually numerical?

[ancient flame]

so what is math research

how do you do math research

[mortal igloo]

Algebraic number theory starts with Galois theory, field extensions, and ends with algebraic stacks, p-divisible groups, moduli stacks, and fiber functors and infinity categories

[ancient flame]

do you sit there with a microscope and examine the numbers until you have an epiphany?

[fair mural]

casually zooms in on the number 7

[ancient flame]

lol

[ancient flame]

HOLY SHIT THE RIEMANN HYPOTHESIS IS PROVEN

[ancient flame]

I understood all of this

[fair mural]

i understood none of it

[ancient flame]

yeah me neither LOL

[mortal igloo]

Aleph0 has good videos on some of these

[leaden skiff]

ah yes the fiber functors

those are important for a healthy diet

[mortal igloo]

https://www.youtube.com/c/Aleph0/videos

[ancient flame]

I've seen a couple of his videos

[ancient flame]

LMAO

I saw his video on stokes thm

[leaden skiff]

sad he doesn't make more videos

[ancient flame]

yeah

[leaden skiff]

i really want a 3b1b or aleph0 for physics man

[mortal igloo]

He published a video just 9 days ago...

[ancient flame]

lmao

[leaden skiff]

wait what

[mortal igloo]

They probably take a lot of time to make too

[leaden skiff]

BRUH

i checked like 2 weeks ago

i assumed he was ded

[ancient flame]

oh

dies

[neat lintel]

or having a PhD in any stem field lol

[ancient flame]

I want very cool ppl rank

I consider myself p cook

[fair mural]

you have to boost the server

[ancient flame]

cool*

oh

ew

[mortal igloo]

I think you two are very capable of getting a PhD in math or whatever it is you end up studying too

[ancient flame]

who

[fair mural]

probably any of us

[mortal igloo]

You and quantum

Well yeah

[ancient flame]

oh

eh

[leaden skiff]

ok yeah i see how it is

[ancient flame]

I'll probably do business or industrial engineering

[mortal igloo]

Oh you're a person too

You three*

[ancient flame]

I don't want pure math

[neat lintel]

what about me??

[fair mural]

secretly i was hoping icy was referring to me

[mortal igloo]

You $n$ where $n$ is unspecified

[fathom swallow]

Icy001

[neat lintel]

D:

[ancient flame]

what am I gonna do w pure math other than education or statistics or actuary or shit like that

I don't want those

[leaden skiff]

you need to be blue here before you can get a phd

[ancient flame]

industrial engineering or marketing or smth sounds much more interesting

[neat lintel]

I'm blue on the inside

[ancient flame]

damn

[ancient flame]

damn

how much do u even have to talk to get active rank

I talk on here fairly regularly

[leaden skiff]

idk im surprised you don't have it yet

[fair mural]

ever since edd mentioned that he does signal processing that’s looked pretty cool to me

[mortal igloo]

PhDs do research lol

[ancient flame]

I think it's because the server is racist

[leaden skiff]

once you get blue it's hard to lose tho

[mortal igloo]

Have people forgotten research is a thing

[ancient flame]

yeah how tf does it work

[mortal igloo]

Ok well you probably know how computer science research works

[ancient flame]

this is my theory

[ancient flame]

not rly lol

[neat lintel]

he had a pure math learning guide which he made private >_>

[leaden skiff]

what why?

[mortal igloo]

Ooh wow I wonder why

[ancient flame]

is that sarcasm?

[mortal igloo]

No

[ancient flame]

oh

[mortal igloo]

Anyway, research is what makes any of this modern technology in 2021 possible

[neat lintel]

prolly cuz he showed his face in that vid

[ancient flame]

yeah

[leaden skiff]

the way math reasearch works is that a mathematicians finds a funny word and then creates a new field of math using that word

[ancient flame]

lmao

clopen

[leaden skiff]

hairy ball, clopen, etc

[mortal igloo]

I like to think of math research as paving the way for technology 300 years in the future

[ancient flame]

LMAO

[neat lintel]

there is one

[ancient flame]

HAIRY BALL EXISTS?

[leaden skiff]

scienceclic?

[mortal igloo]

but we aren't motivated really by such extrinsic motivations

[leaden skiff]

yeah the hairy ball theorem?

[neat lintel]

King Crocoduck

[leaden skiff]

which one?

[ancient flame]

DAMN

[fair mural]

@mortal igloo are you one of those people that’s motivated to research math just because it’s math?

[ancient flame]

lmfao

[fair mural]

no that was an actual question

[mortal igloo]

That should be the same as most people who are researching math 👀

[leaden skiff]

[fair mural]

that would probably be me too

[ancient flame]

it sounded like an insult

the way you worded it

[neat lintel]

https://www.youtube.com/user/KingCrocoduck

[leaden skiff]

are you one of those people that has the very active role in the math server?

[ancient flame]

lmfao

[fair mural]

absolutely

[ancient flame]

that's definitely an insult

mega nerd

[fair mural]

to be fair i do actually get stuff done lol

[mortal igloo]

Stop being very active and study math

jk

Who am I to talk

[ancient flame]

^^^^

[fair mural]

i do both ok

[neat lintel]

lmao watch it!!!

[wild jay]

how do u even get these active roles

[ancient flame]

by talking ig

[wild jay]

do u send messages 40 hours per day

[fair mural]

literally impossible but still yes

[ancient flame]

lmfao

hyperboles exist

and no, not hyperbola

hyperbolE

[leaden skiff]

help and topic channels give you more like "activity points"

[ancient flame]

like the super bowl on steroids

hyper bowl

[leaden skiff]

esp advanced topic channels

[wild jay]

ah not my territory

[ancient flame]

so should I spam the advanced topic channels

[fair mural]

no

[leaden skiff]

my new plan is to learn real analysis and then ask a bunch of dumb questions in #real-complex-analysis to get very active

[ancient flame]

lol

[fair mural]

the normal help channels will work fine

[ancient flame]

LMAO

[fair mural]

that got me to active

[wild jay]

very based

[ancient flame]

damn

maybe I should unhide the help channels

I wanna have cool blue name

[neat lintel]

Yo Ninja besides those salty debunks he has done lots of good videos on physics too. His qm series is really nice.

[fair mural]

i check them a lot because i’m very bored

[leaden skiff]

quantum theory made easy?

[ancient flame]

lol

[neat lintel]

yes

I found it much better than the average joe pop sci books on the subject which I will not name O.O

[mortal igloo]

I used to be pretty inactive here, but I got more active once I started teaching Calc II to university freshmen and realizing just how bad their prerequisite education was

Sometimes I look in the help channels for pre-algebra, precalculus and such and it makes sense

[leaden skiff]

how bad is it?

[fair mural]

why exactly did that make you become active?

[mortal igloo]

Because this server is a great resource for seeing how the average person learns things like precalculus

[sick burrow]

honestly I'm surprised you're not honorable yet Icy

[ancient flame]

I like talking in #math-pedagogy

[mortal igloo]

Let's say the foreign language equivalent is as follows: you spend all 12 years of your schooling learning French and after these 12 years you can't even speak a single sentence in French outside the sample sentences you were given

[ancient flame]

how do u get honorable role

[neat lintel]

For precalc I think I made good progress when I switched from videos to textbooks

[sick burrow]

mods give it to you

[leaden skiff]

i lurk there a lot but am not yet confident to talk there lmao

[ancient flame]

oh

can I get honorable role

[sick burrow]

there's no real formal process/criteria

[ancient flame]

hehe

[leaden skiff]

theres a real dopamine rush to helping someone understanding math tbh

[ancient flame]

lmfao

[fair mural]

there really is

[ancient flame]

im a tutor so I consider myself worthy of talking there

[mortal igloo]

I used to be honorable in like 2017

Then I got inactive

and it got removed

[ancient flame]

ikr

[leaden skiff]

yeah i haven't ever tutored TAed or taught yet

[ancient flame]

IG

[mortal igloo]

If math education gets fixed in 2022 expect me to be inactive again

[ancient flame]

I do it as a job, easy bc it's online

[mortal igloo]

jk, because I know it won't get fixed in 2022

[leaden skiff]

was that a dishonorable discharge?

[sick burrow]

but from what I understand and have heard/observed it's generally given to active members of the community with consistent positive contributions and who are generally well liked in the community.

[ancient flame]

oh okay

[leaden skiff]

it's nepotism

[ancient flame]

so I'll do some more talks :)

[leaden skiff]

i really wanna do a talk on GA someday. but i need to actually learn GA first

[sick burrow]

like not everyone who meets that criteria is honorable, but I think everyone who is honorable met that criteria at at least some point.

[sick burrow]

holy shit Icy you've been here a while

your first message is just "Spectral sequences !"

my prof would like that

[mortal igloo]

😋

[leaden skiff]

for like the first yearish of me being here i just used this server for random hw problems lol

[sick burrow]

I'll never be honorable since I piss off Namington too much

[ancient flame]

lmfao

oh

what's my first message

im on mobile so I can't check

[mortal igloo]

,ban Namington

[fathom swallow]

You don't have the required permissions to ban members here!

Dec 5, 2021, 6:16 AM

[ancient flame]

its probably something stupid af

[fair mural]

,ban

[fathom swallow]

You don't have the required permissions to ban members here!

Dec 5, 2021, 6:16 AM

[ancient flame]

,ban gmod

[fathom swallow]

You don't have the required permissions to ban members here!

Dec 5, 2021, 6:16 AM

[ancient flame]

,bang mod

[fathom swallow]

You don't have the required permissions to ban members here!

Dec 5, 2021, 6:16 AM

[sick burrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/467182970348765197/913692586529677322/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/467182970348765197/916936059001118740/unknown.png

[ancient flame]

lmfaoooo I asked a question

[sick burrow]

Icy vs Namington, battle of the century

I remember when I first joined here a while ago

[fair mural]

to be fair that’s not an easy question

[sick burrow]

I thought I was hot shit for knowing calc 3

[leaden skiff]

ngl i still kinda think im hot shit for knowing calc 3

[fair mural]

i swear i’ve seen someone say those exact words here

[leaden skiff]

it was them, they've said it before

[fair mural]

internally i think i’m cool for knowing odes

[ancient flame]

LMAO

[fair mural]

externally i’ll think i’m cool when i know pdes

[ancient flame]

the "LMAO" was to this

[fair mural]

darn

[ancient flame]

im cool for knowing arithmetic

[leaden skiff]

i feel like the narcissism i have helps balance out the imposter syndrome

[ancient flame]

yeah get fucked

[fair mural]

gmod you know i’m sensitive

[ancient flame]

I do?

[leaden skiff]

yeah he's chaotic

[ancient flame]

small changes in initial conditions

if he was born an extra inch taller

he would be a completely different person

[sick burrow]

relatable

[sick burrow]

him

[ancient flame]

oh

I assume everyone here is a guy

[leaden skiff]

what are your pronouns btw?

[sick burrow]

they/them

[fair mural]

this but unironically

[sick burrow]

THERE ARE NO WOMEN ON THE INTERNET

[ancient flame]

^^^

[leaden skiff]

WAMEN? NEVER HEARD OF EM

[fair mural]

this but kinda unironically

[inner finch]

[leaden skiff]

[ancient flame]

I want a girlfriend

[sick burrow]

(this is a corollary of the fact that "women" as a category does not exist)

[inner finch]

true

[fair mural]

i don’t

[iron copper]

lol

[leaden skiff]

why did this conversation suddenly achieve max sully

[ancient flame]

the category Wom

[inner finch]

i watched a ben shapiro clip today and i didn't understand anything

[leaden skiff]

well hypothetically...

[fair mural]

i wanted to say something mega cringy as a response to that but i decided not to

[sick burrow]

probably because nothing of substance was said

[ancient flame]

cronj

[inner finch]

it was some weird shit

[ancient flame]

politik

[mortal igloo]

Am I right in saying that Ben Shapiro was popular in 2017 and has declined since?

[ancient flame]

yeah

[light needle]

He is still p popular, probably less so

[wild jay]

who's ben shapara

[ancient flame]

oofie

[light needle]

People went off the deep end to where Ben Shapiro is probably too normie for em

[sick burrow]

reading fem theory is great because you some takes

[inner finch]

ben shasha sha

[mortal igloo]

somewhat steady actually

[inner finch]

like what

[leaden skiff]

ya know, you can kind of see the internet growing up

[leaden skiff]

rmb when people were calling fox news fake news

[inner finch]

tru

[sick burrow]

Wittig does not argue that the lesbian is another sex or gender, but claims that the lesbian "is the only concept I know which is beyond the category of sex."

[ancient flame]

all news is fake

[light needle]

Yeah in my state cause Fox News was like, election not rigged

[sick burrow]

Monique Wittig moment

[leaden skiff]

i mean, sexuality isn't gender

so if that's not what they mean

[sick burrow]

no but Wittig is saying like

[inner finch]

🧠

[sick burrow]

lesbians are not women

[leaden skiff]

???

[sick burrow]

since they are beyond the category of sex altogether

[inner finch]

isn't there also that take

[leaden skiff]

???

[inner finch]

that's uhh

[ancient flame]

flawor

[sick burrow]

so like they're not women in a based way

[inner finch]

women who haven't been oppressed aren'tw omen or something

[sick burrow]

oh yeah this is a take

but not what Wittig is saying

[inner finch]

brained take

[sick burrow]

giga brain take

[leaden skiff]

is this like the feminist version of transmedicalism

[inner finch]

i know i was giving another big brain take i heard from somewhere

[sick burrow]

no it's the TERF version of transphobia

[light needle]

Ironically by stripping them of the women title ur oppressing them

Does that make them women

[ancient flame]

and another take is how "minorities who haven't been discriminated against aren't valid"

[inner finch]

wtf

[leaden skiff]

isn't that just transphobia?

[ancient flame]

russel's paradox v2

[inner finch]

brained john take

[leaden skiff]

women are women if and only if they aren't women

[sick burrow]

👏 validity 👏 is 👏 when 👏 oppression 👏 and 👏 the 👏 more 👏 oppression 👏 you 👏 face 👏 the 👏 more 👏 valid 👏 you 👏 are

[light needle]

Why don’t u validate me

[inner finch]

sussy

[light needle]

With some intense oppressions uwu

[sick burrow]

anyways the point of this

[inner finch]

tho ive had a thought in the past few days

astonishing i know

[leaden skiff]

just the one?

[ancient flame]

Let $w$ denote a woman and $W$ devote the set of all women. Thus, $w \in W$

[fathom swallow]

gmod

[ancient flame]

big brain

[sick burrow]

was basically that I was making a "there are no women on the internet because there are no women at all" joke but then I realized that my opinion changed after taking fem theory

[inner finch]

transphobes being obssessed over whether someone is actually a woman or actually a man is pretty irrelavent since nobody uses that in their day to day life at all

[sick burrow]

from gender doesn't exist but people think it does to gender does exist, but it maybe shouldn't

[inner finch]

right? Since gender is just a vibe that people evaluate

rather than sit there and be like hmm yes genetalia

[frosty zinc]

Hot takes, eh?

[inner finch]

or hmm yes chromosomes

[ancient flame]

so the conversation went from a serious topic to an absolute sully moment to a completely different serious topic

[leaden skiff]

we need a genderless society

[inner finch]

we (me) need money

[leaden skiff]

you can't this and not this me

[sick burrow]

watch me

[frosty zinc]

You are aware that gender and sex are two completely different terms now?

[fathom swallow]

gmod

[inner finch]

i know

[light needle]

Yes mirza stop being transphobic

[sick burrow]

$\gamma \in \text{Men} \cap \text{Women}$

[fathom swallow]

Kanga Gang Mole (sleepy agent)

[inner finch]

all i'm saying is obsessing over the true definition of what a person is is quite irrelavent since nobody uses it. In order to evaluate someone's gender we literally just vibe check ppl

A transphobe who equates sex and gender does not know whether their co worker is trans or not

[sick burrow]

mirza I feel like you have a point in there somewhere

[light needle]

You mean you don’t check the genitalia of,every person you meet so you can figure out pronouns

[inner finch]

as they haven't sat down and looked at their medical history

[sick burrow]

and I would suggest you go look for it

[inner finch]

or checked their genitalia

[light needle]

I think what she’s saying is pretty clear grammar

Gamma

[sick burrow]

gender $\neq$ sex

[leaden skiff]

yeah like the point is they don't actually even give a shit about sex

[fathom swallow]

Kanga Gang Mole (sleepy agent)

[leaden skiff]

it's just an excuse they use

[ancient flame]

hehe sex

[inner finch]

So the whole argument is pointless cuz nobody uses any of the chromosome or genitalia based definitions. e.g. idk if ben shapiro is trans or not, yet i still treat him like a man. There is no non invasive way that the average transphobe suggests to determine whether someone is """truly""" a man or a woman

ass butt

[sick burrow]

yeah that is a point

[ancient flame]

pp + pphole = yummy yummy yum

[fair mural]

gmod why

[ancient flame]

lmao

gmode

[inner finch]

gmode

[ancient flame]

did I just kill the conversation

[sick burrow]

no

[leaden skiff]

yeah but the thing is they don't care abt what someone is

[frosty zinc]

Nah, you enforced the isomorphism between #serious-discussion and #chill

[leaden skiff]

just how they look

[ancient flame]

lmfao

[sick burrow]

I feel like some transphobes have more sophisticated arguments than that

[leaden skiff]

it's like "if you have penis you should look and act like a man"

[sick burrow]

most don't

[cold needle]

[frosty zinc]

Hello Metal!

[leaden skiff]

it's not a very high bar

[cold needle]

can we not

hello harshlydoom

[leaden skiff]

what, can't we have a real conversation here? so much for the tolerant left 😤

[ancient flame]

modinator

[sick burrow]

ok tldr all of you should read Judith Butler

[cold needle]

this is not a great discussion to be having here

with how people behave

could be alienating, etc.

[inner finch]

well i mean there is no argument other than shit that boils down to fearmongering

[ancient flame]

communism

[leaden skiff]

wait wdym alienating?

[inner finch]

xenophobia more like alienhating

[light needle]

Ok first good,joke, i have heard u make

[inner finch]

that was good u have to admit

[inner finch]

thanks

[cold needle]

ok that was

pretty good

[inner finch]

thank u thank u

[light needle]

Literally best moment of her life

[ancient flame]

lmfao

the best moment of my life is when I get a gf

[inner finch]

dead

[ancient flame]

anyone wanna volunteer as tribute

[cold needle]

[light needle]

What a creep

[ancient flame]

LOL

[cold needle]

... gmod can you

not

[ancient flame]

okay

[cold needle]

people are annoyed.

[sick burrow]

my goal in life is to slowly convert this into a gender studies discord

[cold needle]

this is not helping

[neat lintel]

I am very much interested in what kinds of talks you give

[ancient flame]

the next talk I give will probably be on like

[inner finch]

🧠

[ancient flame]

the connection between the sum and the product

and its mathematical applications

[leaden skiff]

unironically based

[inner finch]

im so close to joining a theology discord or something

[ancient flame]

I briefly went over it in my last talk but I can show some cool things

[light needle]

Mirza when resume logic

[inner finch]

like what

[light needle]

I have gone all in on model theory

[inner finch]

nevaaa

[light needle]

Nooo

[leaden skiff]

are there actually any decent gender or fem theory discords? i assume they've gotta be flooded with trolls

[inner finch]

model these nuts

[neat lintel]

isn't that a bit obvious? or are you doing some formalism around it?

[light needle]

I was literally studying model theory months ago cause u were

Smhsmh

[inner finch]

i joined a feminist discord

[leaden skiff]

is it good?

[inner finch]

and they had like bruh banned because it was racist or something

[ancient flame]

its using sigma and pi notation so more formal

[sick burrow]

see that's the issue

I haven't looked to be fair

[leaden skiff]

bruh

[sick burrow]

but I feel like that would happen

[inner finch]

Also the mods were on some ageism shit

[leaden skiff]

ageism? wdym?

[inner finch]

age is fluid or something

i dunno it was weird

[light needle]

Discord sounds like a p bad place for leftist spaces

I’m in a few but like

[inner finch]

they also had a automod

[leaden skiff]

sus

[light needle]

Either too many right winged trolls

[sick burrow]

I feel like not many people actually have read gender theory

even within the trans community

[ancient flame]

basically how you can construct a general product rule for differentiation with n functions (e.g. f_1*f_2*f_3*...*f_n) and how you can use that to prove the power rule

[light needle]

Or the ppl are terminally online which you know what it means

[sick burrow]

maybe this is just an exposure thing

[inner finch]

and it had literal hate speech get through but when i talk about intersectionality or feminism in the east i get whacked

[inner finch]

idk trans ppl dont like to philosophize about their existance

it can be triggering i guess

[sick burrow]

silly mirza doesn't understand that America is the only country

[neat lintel]

I see. Looking forward to it. I missed your last one >_>

[sick burrow]

yeah this is very much true

[ancient flame]

hehe ty

[inner finch]

iohh nice

[leaden skiff]

i don't wanna be too spicy, but also i feel like a lot of people on these spaces enjoy the aesthetic of progressivism a lot more than actually being progressive

[inner finch]

isn't this the thing that looks like binomial thm?

[inner finch]

this

[light needle]

Yeah ninja

This is def true

[inner finch]

no that's repeated differentiation sorry

[light needle]

They are neoliberal who are edgy

Not leftists

Usually

[sick burrow]

I don't even know what it means to be a leftist

[ancient flame]

lol

[ancient flame]

it means you're not a rightist

[inner finch]

Leftism is when you write with your left hand

[sick burrow]

like there's this whole "destroy capitalism" thing

[ancient flame]

lol

[light needle]

Well dra2ing a line is hard but like

[leaden skiff]

well i mean stuff like people on twitter who don't wanna use their brains and try to just follow a strict rigid rulset for "what is right"

[sick burrow]

and I literally don't even understand what that position is

[light needle]

It’s really easy to tell leftists from neolibs

In my experience

[sick burrow]

like you point to the things that are generally associated with capitalism

[inner finch]

ive sort of grown disinterested with politics these days

[sick burrow]

they're shit

[inner finch]

i dont think anything can be done for capitalism rn so not even gonna think about it

[sick burrow]

but actually theorizing on what the ultimately best system is is pretty fucking complicated

[leaden skiff]

my current position is that capitalism is clearly shit but im not smart enough to have a real opinion on economics

[inner finch]

yeah same

and so id rather work on social stuff

[ancient flame]

im very disinterested in politics

[sick burrow]

bruh mirza so I was talking to this person

[inner finch]

like women's rights trans issues, homosexual stuff etc

[neat lintel]

Become an absurdist like me

[light needle]

A lot can be done for capitalism

[ancient flame]

I used to be very opinionated bit now idc

[sick burrow]

who was telling me about this "international feminism" course she took at my school

[inner finch]

was their name mirza

[sick burrow]

but apparently the prof was bad

so they only ever talked about the West

[inner finch]

lmfao

[light needle]

Fighting for more worker rights, more taxes, more regulations etc

[inner finch]

dead

[leaden skiff]

mm yeah same. altho i feel like i focus more on the stuff that doesn't effect me too, cause doing that too much makes me depressed lol

[inner finch]

yeah

[sick burrow]

it was legit

[light needle]

Are all things that measurable improve ppls life

[sick burrow]

international feminism is when France

[leaden skiff]

the west is like mostly international right?

[light needle]

And a lot of social issues either spring from or are strengthen by capitalism

[inner finch]

i mean those are still just things that lobbies will do, not me the average shmuck

[ancient flame]

more taxes???? no thanks

[inner finch]

this too

[sick burrow]

but see it's international because it talks about Muslim women in France

[inner finch]

lmao

like the stuff in pakistan rn is pretty horrifying

[sick burrow]

meanwhile my fem theory class is based as fuck

[inner finch]

so i just dont look

[sick burrow]

and the prof makes a point to talk about non western perspectives

[leaden skiff]

oh yeah same, i avoid all indian politics

[inner finch]

like the recent lynching over blasphemy

[leaden skiff]

i know nothing about what's happening in my country

[inner finch]

of that sri lankan guy

[sick burrow]

anyways

[inner finch]

and the fuckin TLP shit

[sick burrow]

I feel like theory is just complicated

[leaden skiff]

idk what TLP is

[inner finch]

no thank u

tehreek e labbaik

[sick burrow]

and most people don't actually want to think deeply about their positions

[light needle]

I kinda feel that I have completely like, tuned out of the abortion suprememe court stuff

[inner finch]

they're a right wing islamist thingy afaik

[inner finch]

yeah i found this of myself

[sick burrow]

which is problematic with how many intersecting identities there are

like I think this is why there's so much leftist infighting

[inner finch]

i feel like ppl aren't convinced with facts & logic or whatever

it's all just emotions at the end of things

[sick burrow]

because people don't actually know the theory behind their positions

[inner finch]

so the best thing to do is get gud at rhetoric

[leaden skiff]

the people who think they're perfectly rational are the worst

because they argue with emotion and refuse to acknowledge it

[inner finch]

i mean im not either

im a wholly emotional person

[sick burrow]

mirza have you read Judith Butler

[inner finch]

i have gender trouble

the pdf

not dysphoria

[light needle]

I mean you also have gender trouble

[inner finch]

but im mgonna read it later

[sick burrow]

Butler is so dense it's insane

[light needle]

Sniped

[leaden skiff]

i also have a little bit of gender trouble

[inner finch]

i sniped u

ass butt

[sick burrow]

like I remember doing a reading for class that was Butler

and legit thinking halfway through

[neat lintel]

im perfectly rational

[inner finch]

damn

[sick burrow]

"this is literally as dense as Hatcher"

[inner finch]

lmfao

[light needle]

But Hatcher isn’t dense

[inner finch]

filosofi can be a pain

[ancient flame]

me $\in \mbb{Q}$

[fathom swallow]

gmod

[sick burrow]

my fem theory textbook is almost the exact size and color as Hatcher

(the book not the person)

[inner finch]

feminist sussy

[neat lintel]

mbb? wait that exists??

[ancient flame]

yeah

[neat lintel]

$\mbb{R}$

[ancient flame]

mathbb = mbb

[fathom swallow]

kanga gang drug mule no. 2

[neat lintel]

[leaden skiff]

what is the intersection of math and fem/gender theory

[ancient flame]

we are witnessing someone's mind being blown

[ancient flame]

empty set

[sick burrow]

$\emptyset$

[fathom swallow]

Kanga Gang Mole (sleepy agent)

[ancient flame]

LOL

[inner finch]

sus

[light needle]

I read this intersectionality paper once that modeled the world as a moebius strip…

[ancient flame]

damn

[sick burrow]

can't tell if this is shitpost or not

[light needle]

Suffice it to say not very smart ppl

[ancient flame]

lol

[sick burrow]

anyways what I really want to read is more Buddhist philosophy

[ancient flame]

I hate pneumothorax

[sick burrow]

there's like this really interesting connection between Butler's theory and Buddhist metaphysics

lmao wut

[toxic schooner]

[leaden skiff]

excuse me

[sick burrow]

"feminists" stop misusing the word "rape" challenge

All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves ... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."

[ancient flame]

wtf

[leaden skiff]

why does this sound like a redditor said this

[ancient flame]

LOL

[sick burrow]

I don't know

but I do know that the SCUM manifesto reads like if 4chan wrote a parody of feminism

"Life" in this "society" being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of "society" being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and eliminate the male sex.

ok to be fair I've only read the intro since it's in the wikipedia article

I love me some self harm, but reading SCUM would be taking it a bit too far

[inner finch]

lmfao waht

[leaden skiff]

this isn't a parody???

[sick burrow]

apparently not?

[inner finch]

thrill seeking

[sick burrow]

see the weird thing about SCUM

[inner finch]

whats scum

[sick burrow]

is that I'm pretty sure it in many ways reads like a parody

[inner finch]

scum more like cum

[leaden skiff]

the thrill i seek is the elimination of the patriarchy 😎

[sick burrow]

SCUM manifesto

its whole thesis is basically an inversion of Freud's penis envy thing

[leaden skiff]

i don't wanna be a STEM bro incel but like, i feel like fem and gender theory don;t really have much of a rigorous basis

[sick burrow]

saying all men basically have pussy envy and secretly want to be women and all the evil man things are just them taking out that desire or someshit

[ancient flame]

freud was a weirdo

[sick burrow]

so it's like ok she's just written a parody

[leaden skiff]

well i mean like there's a lot of transphobia going around as fem or gender theory

[ancient flame]

"girls are attracted to guys similar to their dads"

[sick burrow]

she doesn't actually mean this

[inner finch]

I mean what's rigor

[sick burrow]

but then

[inner finch]

it's philosophy people just say shit

[sick burrow]

she literally shoots Andy Warhol

[inner finch]

who's that

[sick burrow]

and cites her manifesto as reason for it

actor apparently

[leaden skiff]

i mean, i feel like even there you gotta start with some basic assumptions right?

[inner finch]

yeah

[sick burrow]

Ninja have you actually read fem theory?

[leaden skiff]

...no

[sick burrow]

bruh

[inner finch]

but those basic assumptions are disputed and stuff, no? Isn't that sort of the point

[leaden skiff]

i will extricate myself from this conversation posthaste

[sick burrow]

I'd suggest not making sweeping generalizations about fields you don't know

[inner finch]

posthaste

[sick burrow]

there's a huge amount of history and rigor behind fem theory

[leaden skiff]

yeah ok that's fair

[inner finch]

butt butt ttub ttub

[pale orchid]

you must realize that there is an equivalence relation between the word stem and the word penis via the slang relationship. there is a natural identification between penis envy and stem envy, then.

[leaden skiff]

i've just seen a lot of bullshit spouted in the name of fem theory, like a lot of terf rhetoric

[inner finch]

[sick burrow]

mirza how much philosophy have you actually read

[leaden skiff]

i thought edd was gonna tell us to stop talking abt this when i saw him typing ngl

[inner finch]

the reason why fem theory produces so many gems and visionaries

[inner finch]

i am a philosopher

[leaden skiff]

@sick burrowok unironically what should i read

[inner finch]

what is reading

[pale orchid]

as long as you discuss it respectfully, it should be ok

[inner finch]

what is philosophy

define how much

[sick burrow]

yeah terfs do that

[neat lintel]

@sick burrow hello I didn't say I agreed by what was said. I just meant that it's true as in there exist such people with such absurd claims.

[sick burrow]

but if you actually look into their arguments you find either there's very strong counterarguments at best or the terf arguments aren't even grounded in fem theory at worst.

[neat lintel]

And I was pointing to the fact how scary it is that such people hold positions in academia

[inner finch]

butt butt?

[sick burrow]

citing terf rhetoric to discredit feminist theory is like citing Godel cranks to discredit Foundations

[neat lintel]

I think I typed mindlessly. I am sorry.

[sick burrow]

JK Rowling could hold her own in a room of feminist scholars about as well as Veritasium could hold his own in a room of set theorists

[leaden skiff]

ok yeah that is true, it was unfair of me

now time to combine the scum manifesto with incompleteness

[inner finch]

verisus

ium

[leaden skiff]

men are incomplete women, and want the necessary axioms to become women

[inner finch]

pee pee poo poo

god i hate productive conversation

[sick burrow]

wanana 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[light needle]

Goedel

its an umlaut

smh

[inner finch]

thank u

[sick burrow]

ananu 🍌

[inner finch]

i want a guitar

fuk

these past few days ive been getting into urdu lit

and my urdu has been improving

[sick burrow]

🎸 👐

here

[inner finch]

i cant get myself to read anything today tho

[sick burrow]

ok on that note

[inner finch]

thanks

[sick burrow]

I should actually be going to bed

[inner finch]

gn

[light needle]

yeah same

[leaden skiff]

im illiterate in every language but english

[light needle]

both of us probably tired from 6 hrs of examination today

[sick burrow]

this concludes our regular late night fem theory conversation with Gamma

[inner finch]

lmao

[inner finch]

mood

[sick burrow]

see I like talking about feminist theory in the math discord

[light needle]

isnt hindi ur main language

[leaden skiff]

wait you never gave me a good book

[leaden skiff]

hindi's like my 3rd langauge

[light needle]

o

[sick burrow]

because I know a lot more math than I do fem theory

[leaden skiff]

1st is def english, 2nd malayalam and 3rd hindi

(im ass at hindi tho)

[leaden skiff]

next up try talking abt math in the feminist discord

[sick burrow]

but relative to this server I'm mediocre at best at math but actually a good deal above average at fem theory

[sick burrow]

hm?

[inner finch]

malayalam

thats cool

[light needle]

time to learn fem theory just to flex

so true

[inner finch]

i want to learn so many languages

i wanna learn sindhi

[sick burrow]

what kind of book

[light needle]

have u considered learning

[inner finch]

apparently very old lang

no

[light needle]

the language of model theory

[inner finch]

😎

[sick burrow]

like fem theory

[inner finch]

aa ooo ooo ee

[leaden skiff]

yes

[sick burrow]

here maybe I can find a paper for you

[leaden skiff]

hmm a paper?

[sick burrow]

wait a minute I'm stupid

I was looking for a link to this paper

but then I realized

I have the pdf so I can just download it

this is one of the papers I'm currently working with for my essay

one of Butler's earlier pieces that was kind of a precursor to Gender Trouble

and then this is a really really good speech we read earlier in the semester

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/fs-2015-0115/html

[leaden skiff]

well i just tried to find the liek discord/feminism server and uhh people there were saying they wasn't a pronoun

[sick burrow]

lmao

[light needle]

discord servers are almost always bad for leftist spaces or academic spaces tbh

[leaden skiff]

this is really good

and so are the rest in #old-network (except for them being dead)

[light needle]

we still get a ton of shitters right

[leaden skiff]

do we?

[light needle]

and we used to be much worse

[leaden skiff]

i guess the mods do a good job cause i don't notice too much

[light needle]

plus something llike the physics server is like

stacked with racists higher up

[leaden skiff]

👀

wdym

[sick burrow]

as for books, idk? Like Gender Trouble obviously for Butler, but it's super dense, especially if you don't know much of the philosophy it draws on (I'm not sure if I meet the prerequisites to read it tbh). And I know De Beauvoir's The Second Sex is a foundational text in feminist theory but I haven't read any of it beyond one short excerpt from class.

[light needle]

wont eleborate but i have seen evidence of some really bad ppl there

[inner finch]

lol don't even try

everyone is horrible on discord

[light needle]

like people probably see "fem theory" as a server

and terfs get a boner for that shit

and shit it up

[inner finch]

lol

[light needle]

but they know nothing about the topic

[sick burrow]

also fun fact so back when we were talking about The Second Sex in class

[light needle]

yes im proud of the "terfs get a boner" joke

[sick burrow]

I opened up reddit in a moment of distraction

and saw this meme

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508783071646973953/890256541557620806/c6tr69ent1p71.png

[leaden skiff]

what sub?

[sick burrow]

like literally during class when we were talking about it

r/196

ok now I actually must sleep

[light needle]

did u show it to ur prof

[leaden skiff]

epic sub

[sick burrow]

as Ninja has kept me up for another 15 minutes

[light needle]

ninja u owe em 15 mins

[leaden skiff]

sorry 😓

[inner finch]

didn't r/196 have some pedo shit in it

[sick burrow]

did it?

I think they're more like

fetishizing femboys and transwomen

[leaden skiff]

yeah the fetishization that happens in these spaces is a bit uhhhh sus

[inner finch]

usy

[sick burrow]

though tbh I see like 5x more posts there about how 196 fetishizes femboys than actual fetishization tbh

[inner finch]

lol

[light needle]

need to do job for money

or should i watch new dexter ep

moral delima

[inner finch]

job

[light needle]

b-but dexter

[inner finch]

who is dexter

[light needle]

dexter was a popular tv shows back in the days

about a serial killer

they recently made a new season after years

i used to watch it when i was young

[leaden skiff]

watch dexter for money

[light needle]

true

I was lied to

no new ep

its later today\

job time

[inner finch]

lmfao

lmfao lmfao

[snow lintel]

lmfao lmfao lmfao

[tame tinsel]

hlo

i dont where to start studying maths

i am in grade 11

[devout nacelle]

Khan Academy might be helpful.

[tame tinsel]

ok

i dont know much of 9 and 10 topics

should i start from 9

[devout nacelle]

Sure, you can take unit tests/course tests on the stuff you're not sure about for an assessment first.

Identify which bits need work, learn them.

[tame tinsel]

ok

thanks for helping

[devout nacelle]

[normal sparrow]

khan academy doesn't work for everyone, so keep that in mind

i personally do not like it

[tame tinsel]

i prefer reading

than watching

[tame tinsel]

do you have something else to recommend to me

[normal sparrow]

hmm, i actlly just don't like khan academy's presentation

i just passively watch math videos related to my topic on mind

but try it out urself

[tame tinsel]

i know that

site

i have used it

but i get bored or sleepy while watching videos

[normal sparrow]

oh reading?

i think u should try #book-recommendations

im not well versed in textbooks enough

[tame tinsel]

ok

[gloomy marten]

mfw

[normal sparrow]

i understand that Z is a natural extension of N when we introduce subtraction. And then Q is an extension when we introduce division. R is then somehow introduced with the concept of irrational numbers. But the thing is, is there a better reason why we introduce complex numbers C besides "hehe, quadratic equation always right"

in other words, is there a better justification to introducing C?

far as I know, they are wicked good at modelling oscillations

[deep mango]

well the big justification is because R is not algebraically closed

C is the algebraic closure of R

[normal sparrow]

dang

[deep mango]

by which i mean that any polynomial with real coefficients doesn't necessarily have a real root, but it definitely has a complex root

(and so does any polynomial with complex coefficients, in fact it has as many roots as its degree)

this is really closely connected to a lot of the nice properties of C that you might have been thinking of

(in particular, a solution to x^2 = -1 "should" in some sense represent a 90 degree rotation, since 2 90 degree rotations is a 180 degree rotation which is -1)

[normal sparrow]

also

[leaden skiff]

are there any other algebraic closures of R?

[deep mango]

this is where all of the geometric and analytic usefulness of C comes from

[normal sparrow]

what exactly about C that makes it so good at modelling oscillations

i understand the multiplication of i rotates by 90 degrees

[iron copper]

euler's formula

[deep mango]

i don't think so! you need to add in a root for x^2 + 1 and that immediately becomes i and nothing else needs to be added after that

[normal sparrow]

that geometric intuition is basically instilled into me

[normal sparrow]

yeah, but explain more

[deep mango]

yeah it's essentially what you said dulg

[leaden skiff]

do you know any lin alg?

[deep mango]

it's because multiplication of complex numbers is a scaling + a rotation

[normal sparrow]

huh

alright

i know some very basic geometric algbra

and complex numbers are used to rotate vectors

[leaden skiff]

like, complex numbers can be thought of as a matrix and if you understand linear algebra then that makes the intuition for them super easy to get

[iron copper]

complex numbers can be written as re^(i \theta)

[fathom swallow]

Kanga Gang Drug Mule Ryc

[deep mango]

as to why they are so nice in terms of rotations

if you pick a = cos(theta) and b = sin(theta) for some theta, then that becomes a rotation matrix

[leaden skiff]

technically the reason they're so good at rotations is because -1 is a rotation by 180 degrees. thats sort of the "root cause" of i being a 90 degree rotation

[deep mango]

yeah

[normal sparrow]

god i truly hate matricies

so computationally tedius

no offense

anyways, my question comes from this 1st order diff eq i encountred

[deep mango]

this trend continues too. quaternions are a sort of 4-dimensional version of the complex numbers, and they let us understand rotations in 3 dimensions.

well things kind of fall apart after that. but whatever

[normal sparrow]

i forgot the name, but I know that the diff eq was modelling harmonic motions

[surreal sapphire]

i actually prefer to use -i

[deep mango]

yeah

[leaden skiff]

do octonions let us understand rotations in 7D or something?

[deep mango]

i have no idea

[deep mango]

well, the complex differential equation f'(z) = f(z) has the solution C e^z still, but now z is a complex number so if you look at imaginary inputs then you get sines/cosines.

this is kind of fun, because if we just look at the imaginary input ix (for x real) we get

nevermind idk how to do that. lol

i was trying to get f'' = -f to pop out, which has solutions sin(x) and cos(x)

oh well

but you can do that sort of thing

[normal sparrow]

how does C come up in QM?

is it the rotational property of C that allows this?

argh

its not satisfying to know that u are close to a true answer

[deep mango]

yeah it's the rotation

[leaden skiff]

almost certainly

[deep mango]

sort of

[leaden skiff]

if you see C, there's some rotation somewhere

not necessarily in like something physical

but something's spinning

[deep mango]

it's because of the way electromagnetic waves oscillate i think