serious-discussion

[rancid meadow]

lmao

[deep mango]

sorry jesse

[rancid meadow]

yeah cuz its for grinding ryc

[cold needle]

[rancid meadow]

the desk spaces r mad nice actually

orange

[deep mango]

SUCCESS
IS MAKING
those who
BELIEVED IN US
LOOK
BRILLIANT

[rancid meadow]

what type of chairs are those

[bronze pelican]

Thats great

[rancid meadow]

do u think they are eames chairs

[deep mango]

[rancid meadow]

valid question.

[deep mango]

ok survivor is starting

[fair wedge]

ima study software development by myself and get a job at an environment-caring company

[neat lintel]

Genshin Impact has a magic square puzzle 😳

[neat lintel]

cool

[crystal stone]

nerd

[stray kite]

If you have a vector field V, what exactly does $V \nabla V$ denote?

[fathom swallow]

CoolShot

[neat lintel]

ccccccontext?

[neat lintel]

Found an emendation (Anderson’s) of Gödal’s ontological argument that apparently does not imply modal collapse: https://appearedtoblogly.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/anderson-anthony-c-22some-emendations-of-gc3b6dels-ontological-proof22.pdf
It’s shown consistent via computer here: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11787-017-0160-9.pdf
Curious to hear y’all smart people’s opinions

[neat lintel]

Ping me if you think anything neat

[inner finch]

woffolin bruv

[fathom swallow]

copinghagen

[pale orchid]

#❓how-to-get-help

[neat lintel]

@dull salmon idk if you’ve seen the other emendations in the second paper here; some of them are rather curious (Bjørdal, for example, takes a God-like being as a primitive instead of positive properties, which is interesting).

[neat lintel]

guys are composite functions , functions which use other functions?

for example this g(x) = x + 1
and
f(x) = x * 2

f(g(x)) //is this a composite function?

[deep mango]

Yes

[wild jay]

yes

[fringe needle]

Every day I’m amazed by how powerful simple theorems can be

[bronze pelican]

Like what

[fringe needle]

Fundamental things like pigeonhole, or simple introductory theorems like the monotone convergence theorem

The latter are only powerful when they can be applied which to be fair can be quite a limited set of problems but it’s still awesome how you can get quick conclusions from them

Lagrange is a good example of a powerful simple theorem ig

You’d probably have better ones

[rare frigate]

Can I ask a question

How much algebra do you need for calculus

Like how good

Like do you need Olympiad level algebra

[neat lintel]

You need high school algebra and trigonometry

[rare frigate]

Ik

[neat lintel]

Competition math is fake math

It doesn’t matter really

[rare frigate]

But like do you need to be like Olympiad level in algebra

Like in terms of algebra skill

[cold needle]

No

[neat lintel]

can you solve a quadratic equation

[rare frigate]

Easily

Formula, factor or square

[neat lintel]

do you know what a logarithm is

[rare frigate]

I know what it is

Haven’t learnt it yet

[neat lintel]

Do you know trig

[rare frigate]

I’m still learning algebra 2 on my own

[rare frigate]

Yes

I know that a log is an inverse of an exponent

[cold needle]

if everyone needed to be good at olympiad level algebra to do calculus then who would be doing calculus

this is absurd

[rare frigate]

Idk someone just told me

[neat lintel]

Alright, learn algebra II fully and know exponentials and logarithms well

do you know what homotopy is?

[cold needle]

that someone is wrong

[rare frigate]

Hell na

[rare frigate]

So if I know everything, and good at it can I just move on

Or do I need to make my algebra like insanely good

Because idk

[neat lintel]

Yeah it’s a continuous map between loops

[unborn trellis]

you should probably have a mastery of trig at least

[rare frigate]

What is meant by mastery

@neat lintel how is competition math fake math

Is it just too hard

[neat lintel]

it’s useless for real maths and physics

[unborn trellis]

like, if I explained something in calculus that used techniques from trig, you could follow along

[deep mango]

[neat lintel]

You can do it if you want

[rare frigate]

I’ve mastered trig

[neat lintel]

I love your pfp

[rare frigate]

The only thing I haven’t mastered

Is algebra II

I’m working on that

[unborn trellis]

do those things not go hand in hand

[rare frigate]

Well I know a bit of algebra 2

[unborn trellis]

we had trig/algebra II as one class

[rare frigate]

Not the logarithms bit

Ok so thanks

[neat lintel]

Anyways time to do a “simple” calculation for my PI

[rare frigate]

I thought you had to be competition level at algebra

[unborn trellis]

okay yeah should have a good understanding of exponentials, logarithms, quadratic equations, graphing, inequalities, and radicals

[rare frigate]

For a sec I thought everyone here was an Olympiad level

[unborn trellis]

if everyone needed to be a comp math prodigy to learn calculus then few would know calculus

[deep mango]

[rare frigate]

Wait how hard is the Olympiad even

[deep mango]

is this what jealousy looks like anime boy?

[rare frigate]

Because people told me about some think called the ‘calculus trap’ or whatever it is @unborn trellis

[unborn trellis]

i have no idea what that is

[deep mango]

the calculus trap...

[unborn trellis]

i suck ass at competition math but i taught myself calc in like 10th grade

it's not as difficult as you think

[rare frigate]

I’m in 9th grade

[rare frigate]

Ok

I’m doo doo at comps

[neat lintel]

Yang Mills theory cool

[cold needle]

.

bruh

bacono stealin my lines!!!

[unborn trellis]

I didn't even read that lol

[cold needle]

[neat lintel]

Yep

[unborn trellis]

are these compatible things

[neat lintel]

That is, in fact, my About Me

[unborn trellis]

nothing against your beliefs, just kind of curious

[cold needle]

i think they are compatible

[neat lintel]

May God bless all of us

[cold needle]

i assume people make the right modifications to their religious beliefs so that they become compatible (?)

unsure how it works

since i am not religious

[neat lintel]

same

[cold needle]

i am doomed

[neat lintel]

Christianity and the modern scientific consensus are fully compatible. A website I like a lot with good information is https://biologos.org.

[neat lintel]

Multiple interpretations of Scripture are possible; since, if Christianity is right, nature and Scripture should be compatible, you choose the interpretation that’s consistent with what’s observed.

[cold needle]

right

[unborn trellis]

this is a pretty funny headline

[neat lintel]

It’s moreso selection of proper interpretations than random modification

[cold needle]

i see

ive been wondering like

[neat lintel]

Ye, it’s made to be attention grabbing for vaccine-hesitant Christians, I would think

[cold needle]

at what point do the interpretations deviate enough that you end up with some kind of new religion even

i guess this is how the sects form?

i am not educated on these matters

oog

[neat lintel]

.

[rare frigate]

@neat lintel do you believe in the lord

[neat lintel]

Christianity holds a couple key principles as sacrosanct; essentially everything else is up for vigorous debate (and probably has been).

[cold needle]

i see

[neat lintel]

Ye

Christianity holds that there is one God who is three Persons. Each of these Persons is not any of the other Persons, but all three are one God.

and he deleted his message

oh well

I am agnostic as pertaining to the existence of the muffin man

[eager crescent]

It's muffin time

[swift sinew]

I feel like I’m reading an axiomatization of Christianity

[neat lintel]

The proper name for that is “systemic theology”

[inner finch]

[neat lintel]

A quite famous historical example is Aquinas’s Summa Theologica

[brazen locust]

Taking a math class and whispering to myself math is synthetic a priori and dreaming of getting a good grade while making a 30

[leaden torrent]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

and lets not forget

https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/1/1952/files/2014/01/ConMathThe122512-1iea8ps.pdf

God → con(zfc)

[neat lintel]

Heh, I was just talking about alternative forms of this with no modal collapse with Ultraproduct earlier today

[neat lintel]

yall might like this server https://discord.gg/FZSbdQbf

the theists in this server are pretty devoted and seem to work hard to not end up with a defective theological idea of their respective God/gods

[inner finch]

the greatest olympic mental athletes of our time

best thing to come out of that place

[sick burrow]

where is this from mirza

like you said that in response to the theology discord being linked but that looks like reddit to me

[neat lintel]

Server seems a tad quiet

[inner finch]

memes section of the theology server

lol

[jovial ember]

Dude

That’s from r/bewitchthetaliban

Hahahaha

[pale orchid]

mirza taking a page out of shin megami tensei

[light needle]

should have just banned her smh

[errant rock]

im quite active there and im letting you know rn the taliban is #canceled

[sick burrow]

You ever just feel like you can't focus on anything

Like between ADD, laziness, and a small dose of crippling self hate I barely spend any time on any of my classes

[static loom]

delete the internet

[sick burrow]

It's not just the internet

Sometimes I'll sit down and be literally unable to focus

[static loom]

I find I feel that way for the first hour or so of trying to focus on something

but then it goes away and I get into it

[sick burrow]

But I'll admit that the internet is certainly a major

The thing is, I rarely can spend that much time focusing on something

[static loom]

it's easier to short circuit it if I go straight to doing it when I wake up

and don't touch any electronic devices in between, minus maybe turning off an alarm

[sick burrow]

Like I'll spend an hour maybe 2 hours tops working at a time

Often much less

Not sure to what extend that's laziness/internet and to what extend it's ADD

[static loom]

personally I just attribute it to me being a monkey

[sick burrow]

But the end result is I rarely spend more than a few hours per week on any of my classes

[static loom]

like something distinctively unnatural about sitting at a desk reading for hours

[sick burrow]

*few hours per week each not total

And the thing is, I generally do well in my classes, like I have a 4.0 gpa, but I think that's just a combination of the classes not being demanding and just being carried by the fact that I pick up on things quickly

I have this constant fear that I'm not actually learning any math and am just blackboxing everything

[static loom]

dunno, sounds like your expectations for yourself are too high so you are constantly disappointing yourself

[sick burrow]

And relying on just intuition and theorems I don't know the proofs for

[sick burrow]

See I think my expectations are reasonable

[static loom]

you're doing well it sounds like, but we're still mortal

[sick burrow]

In terms of time commitment

But like the thing is

For example

[static loom]

yeah, I'm saying that's the problem

[sick burrow]

I didn't really take notes until this semester

[static loom]

well, I'm not a therapist so I'll just stop it there, but good luck working it out

[sick burrow]

I feel like I don't retain things

At least not as much as I could

And that I'm always doing just the bare minimum

In like reading courses and research projects

And in terms of my expectations

Is it really unreasonable to think I should be spending closer to 6-7 hours per week on an upper level algebraic topology reading course rather than 3-4

[neat lintel]

Spend as much or as little time as you need

[limber thunder]

they be treating Allah like it's a MMO raid boss smh

[limpid niche]

Is sacred geometry pseudo-math? Is it actually considered math? when I see something like the flower of life, I think of Set Theory, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the use and just seems like it’s not actually any real math.

[inner finch]

lololol

[leaden torrent]

"pseudo-math" is too high a compliment

[limpid niche]

Lol

So false math is a compliment lol

[limber thunder]

from wiki

Sacred geometry ascribes symbolic and sacred meanings to certain geometric shapes
math doesn't care the slightest about the "symbolic" or moral meaning of numbers or shapes

[limpid niche]

Numbers are symbols though

Moral meaning no

[limber thunder]

I don't mean symbolic in that way

[limpid niche]

Oh okay

[limber thunder]

it's as in, symbols that represent human values and virtues

and things like sacred geometry and numerology are just that, finding patterns and giving them interpretations in terms of the (subjective) human experience

[deep mango]

How do you explain the usage of moral to mean pedagogically correct then huh?

[leaden torrent]

its not really mathematics at all

[crystal stone]

1 respresents wholeness and health

[limpid niche]

Could certain values be quantified somehow though?

[leaden torrent]

you can take whatever theological conclusions you want

[crystal stone]

4 is a really unlucky number for me

[leaden torrent]

but a mathematician would not study anything like "sacred geometry"

[crystal stone]

I don't mesh well with Libras

[deep mango]

Well now that you say so...

[leaden torrent]

that said, mathematicians HAVE proved that the existence of God implies the consistency of zfc

take this as you may

[crystal stone]

I've heard that God is a Libra, is there a chance for me?

[limpid niche]

Thanks for the answer guys, I appreciate it.

[inner finch]

paper?

[limpid niche]

It just made absolutely no sense to me

[leaden torrent]

https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/1/1952/files/2014/01/ConMathThe122512-1iea8ps.pdf

[inner finch]

damn he had it on his clipboard ready to go

[limber thunder]

bc it mostly doesn't

[leaden torrent]

"existence of god" means in the sense of godels ontological proof

so im stating it in a misleading way

for comedic effect

[limpid niche]

I thought people were just seeing something within it that I couldn’t figure out or notice

[inner finch]

im not going to read this but this is

[leaden torrent]

but its a valid paper

[inner finch]

damn

i heard ultra say this before but i couldn't find a paper for it last time

[deep mango]

I lost my water bottle cap on the train

[inner finch]

use ur mouth

[deep mango]

It came off somehow and water sloshed all over my backpack

[crystal stone]

no cap?

[deep mango]

And then the train left

And now its gone forever

My favorite water bottle

[limpid niche]

I saw a proof like that, but it was before a time I understood proofs.

I wrote a metaphysical proof before, but the thing is that I got a physics assumption wrong.

I thought matter couldn’t be created or destroyed at all, but I didn’t realize it could be transferred. In other words E = MC^2

[limber perch]

your lost water bottle

[deep mango]

I have the bottle, the cap just came off

[limber perch]

the bottle is nothing without the cap

[bronze pelican]

the cap is basically a bottle with out a cap

[velvet dagger]

That's cap

[mint patio]

what's a p-adic number?

[hollow vale]

Hey, does anybody know if there's anything neat that comes with representing graph colorings as matrices. I'm thinking of the following: a matrix where the rows are vertices, columns are colors, and the entry i, j is 1 when vertex i has been assigned color j. Or, we could do a matrix where the rows are colors, columns are vertices, the entry i, j is 1 when color i has been assigned to vertex j. It seems like you could view a graph coloring as a linear transformation this way (taking "color vectors" to "vertex vectors" or vice-versa) but I'm not sure if that's interesting at all. Someone elsewhere said you can't get much info about the graph from this matrix so it might not be useful. Although I think if it's a complete multipartite graph, you should still be able to recover the adjacency matrix from the first matrix representation idea I listed.

[bronze pelican]

Its a formal sum $\sum_{n>N}a_n p^n$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[bronze pelican]

With the coefficients $a_n$ being in the range $0\leq a_n < p$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[mint patio]

What’s their significance?

[blazing pawn]

the short answer is that you can "do calculus" on the field of p-adic numbers in a way you cant on Q

[mint patio]

Pog

So it’s analysis related?

[blazing pawn]

Yes but it also has a lot of algebra connections

[mint patio]

Just from the name I thought it was NT

[bronze pelican]

Doing arithmetic with p-adic numbers is like doing arithmetic mod $p^n$ for all $n>0$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[leaden torrent]

to be a bit more explicit

theyre an alternate way to complete the rationals

we can complete them by naively filling in the holes with sequences

that gives us the reals

but its often useful (especially number theoretically) to consider alternate completions

[blazing pawn]

is completion going to mean anything to feather

[mint patio]

Does the series always converge? Or can we only make a p-adic with certain ps only

It looks geometric but iirc geometric requires n < 1 to converge doesn’t it? I haven’t done series in a while…

Interesting. So can every real number be represented as a p-adic?

Yes I know what you mean by completion

[leaden torrent]

no, reals and p-adics are fundamentally different objects

theyre incomparable

(except the rationals)

[mint patio]

Do they not have a computable value/something we can approximate?

[bronze pelican]

Just like you have the decimal expansion for real numbers you have the p-adic expansion for p-adic number, which is the formal sum i wrote above

[mint patio]

Ahhh okay okay

[static loom]

there are divergent p-adic sums

[mint patio]

What the

That was gonna be my next comment LOL

[static loom]

it's relative to that absolute value

like 1+1/p+1/p^2+... diverges because 1/p^n has a large p-adic absolute value

[mint patio]

Smth like “so is there something like cauchy criterion that guarantees every series converges”

[static loom]

there is exactly cauchy criteria

[mint patio]

oh wow

[static loom]

and for p-adics it's even stronger

you just need |a_{n+1}-a_n| -> 0 for a sequence to be cauchy

also if a_n->0 then sum_n a_n converges

[mint patio]

Right

[static loom]

lot of this stems from the ultrametric inequality

a stronger version of the triangle inequality

[mint patio]

never heard of that :o cool

I gotta drive real quick but I’ll be back in a min

What subject/field would I look into to learn more about this?

hi again

[bronze pelican]

I think a good place to start is the construction of the p-adic rationals and Hensel's lemma

[mint patio]

Okay

Thank you

what the

This is crazy

LOL

[leaden torrent]

they are just power series of a prime (or whatever p is) basically

formal power series that is

[bronze pelican]

Check out the video lectures on p-adic numbers by Renee Bell here:
https://www.math.arizona.edu/~swc/aws/2021/index.html

[mint patio]

What's the difference between a formal power series and a...regular...power series?

I'm going through the Wikipedia article rn because it's more easy language but I'll keep looking into it

So it's a different number system is all

But it has nicer properties for some stuff

[leaden torrent]

formal power series means we consider the power series itself rather than evaluating it

like

you can view it as a sequence rather than as a sum

and we just happen to separate the elements of the sequence with + symbols

[bronze pelican]

$\mathbb{R}$ is like the sun, while the $\mathbb{Q}_p$ are the infinitely many stars

[leaden torrent]

basically like infinite polynomials

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[mint patio]

ing your own Tex

[mint patio]

So each term of the series is just the coefficient/value for that "decimal place" of the p-adic?

Like for this

The power series would look like 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 2?

But not 14

[bronze pelican]

You need to include the powers of 5

Those digits are the coefficients

[mint patio]

So 1^5 + 3^5 + ...?

or no

gah I remember this it's similar to expansion of real numbers

just don't remember the specifics

[bronze pelican]

No, its $2\cdot 1 + 3\cdot 5 + 1\cdot 5^2 + 3\cdot 5^3 + ...$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[mint patio]

Ah

That's the expanded power series right

And then to form the actual number we just take the coefficients in front of 5^n

[bronze pelican]

Notice that in $\mathbb{Z}/5\mathbb{Z}$ that the multiplicative inverse of 3 is 2.

Also in $\mathbb{Z}/5^2 \mathbb{Z}$ the multiplicative inverse of 3 is $2 + 3\cdot 5$

And in $\mathbb{Z}/5^3\mathbb{Z}$ the multiplicative inverse of 3 is $2 + 3\cdot 5 + 1 \cdot 5^2$

In this way, the inverse of 3 in $\mathbb{Q}_5$ encodes the information of the inverse of $3$ in $\mathbb{Z}/5^n\mathbb{Z}$ for all $n>0$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[surreal sapphire]

if a fool persists in his folly, he can become wise...

[mint patio]

Oh man

So Z/5Z looks like 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 1, 2? So multiplying 3 by 2 then taking mod 5 gives 1...is that right? I think that's it

This is cool though, thanks for the example

What do you mean by the inverse of 3 in Q_5?

What is the inverse of a p-adic number?

Ohhh okay

So the inverse of 3 is 1/3 so it's 1/3 in Q_5

Encodes information about the multiplicative inverse of 3 in Z/5Z

[bronze pelican]

$\mathbb{Q}_p$ is a field. The inverse of an element is some other element which when you multiply them together, you get 1

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[mint patio]

Q has negative numbers too right? That's why I was confused about inverse, can't you have additive inverses too? But I guess it should've been obvious because we don't care about addition here

[bronze pelican]

Yeah you have additive inverses too

What is $-1$ in $\mathbb{Q}_5$?

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[bronze pelican]

[mint patio]

One sec

fuck okay problem is I don';t actually understand the math behind how to find the terms of the power series LMFAO I didn't understand it over text (on wikipedia) so I just skipped that part

I will do this after I'm gonna be busy for like an hour or 2 rn

But I'll respond once I figure it out

[bronze pelican]

Yeha its okay, the construction of the p adics is hard to wrap your head around the first time

[mint patio]

I understood everything you said

[rare pond]

How do I do a math PhD so I can make money in industry afterwards

@crystal stone

[leaden torrent]

doing a cs phd

[deep mango]

[little vine]

I'm focusing on stat and analysis

[crystal stone]

Mr. Berg

[crystal stone]

Mr. Berg

[rare pond]

@crystal stone mr bear

[crystal stone]

Mr. Berg

[mint patio]

omg yeah I can't do this LOL I don't understand the algorithm. I think the rightmost digit is 4, but that's as far as I can figure out

[mint patio]

I'm trying to work it out backwards using this but I can't get past Z/5Z 🤣

[bronze pelican]

Thats right

Whats -1 in Z/5^2Z?

[mint patio]

24 yes?

[bronze pelican]

Yeah and 24 = 4 + what*5?

[mint patio]

Ohhhh there was my problem

I was doing -1 + x*5 (mod 5) = 24

okay so the secnod digit is gonna be 4 too

[bronze pelican]

Mhm

[mint patio]

Let me do the third

So we have 124 = 4 + 4*5 + x*5^2 => 100 = x*5^2, so the third is also 4?

sorry that took so long 💀

[bronze pelican]

Yes

[mint patio]

Ah okay that's not hard

Thank you PTY :D

[bronze pelican]

It turns out $-1 =\sum_{n=0}^\infty 4\cdot 5^n$ in $\mathbb{Q}_5$

[fathom swallow]

nYaminoid

[mint patio]

Is -n always sum (-n mod p) * p^n in Q_p?

[bronze pelican]

So the 5-igit representation of -1 is -1 = ...44444444

[bronze pelican]

Idk also i have to sleep now byw

[mint patio]

Night night 😁 Thanks for your time

[leaden torrent]

ah yes, the class equation

[uncut totem]

hey when do we learn linear algebra

anyone?????

[surreal sapphire]

what kind of answer are you looking for?

[uncut totem]

i mean what math subjects do you need to learn in order to learn linear algebra

[surreal sapphire]

know how to add and multiply i guess

[uncut totem]

i meant advanced linear algebra

[surreal sapphire]

like what?

[uncut totem]

wait let me send a screenshot

i meant this

@surreal sapphire

[surreal sapphire]

the prerequisites is knowing how to add and multiply

[uncut totem]

really thats it????

but look

[surreal sapphire]

yes, that's it

[uncut totem]

at the screenshot

oh ok

[surreal sapphire]

yes, this is a standard introduction to linear algebra

its very self contained

it could be a bit abstract, but there is no concrete prerequisite to prepare you for that

[uncut totem]

ok tq

[surreal sapphire]

maybe some intro proofs and logic kinda thing

[uncut totem]

but see

bro see

@surreal sapphire

[untold sapphire]

this is such a weird conversation

[surreal sapphire]

what am i supposed to be seeing

[uncut totem]

nvm

leave it

bye

[surreal sapphire]

i mean i know what is or isn't required to take linear algebra classes

and calculus certainly is not

i have successfully taken linear algebra classes without calculus

[static loom]

can't hurt you to take calculus first, derivatives and integrals are nice examples of linear operators

[odd narwhal]

they actually left lmao

[surreal sapphire]

am i toxic?

[timid spindle]

Why what happened

[odd narwhal]

they got frustrated because they can't read

[odd narwhal]

u were fine

[distant vortex]

Lmao @ "bro see"

[thorn brook]

Hatcher has a book about k theory

Just noticed that lmao

[devout nacelle]

Yes

Apologise and bring back the user

[bronze pelican]

?

[neat lintel]

i'm currently doing math as a hobby in my spare time after high school before I go to college. I already know some calculus and differential equations. I started at reading a book on discrete math by Susanne Epp, afterwards I read a book on precalc, now i'm going into calculus 1, 2 and 3 again. Should I read a book on proof writing before I go into differential equations and linear algebra, or should I do that before calculus?

I know a bit of proof writing from discrete math, but not a lot

then your good, just use a proof book as reference.

[devout nacelle]

You'll probably gain little from a "proofs" book if you've already done discrete math

[bronze pelican]

Hatcher has a book of Topology of Numbers

[neat lintel]

I struggled a bit with proofs in discrete math and skipped most of the problems, and just did set theory, graph theory etc. instead

so i'm not really great at it

I just heard it's good to get good at proof writing before you go further in mathematics

[devout nacelle]

Proofs can be (are usually) learnt in the context of a particular topic

Typical choices for a first proof-based class are discrete math, linear algebra, real analysis

[neat lintel]

alright thanks

[neat lintel]

#book-recommendations message

maybe this would help, it very quick

thanks, i'll look into it

but I thought of getting the book Mathematical Proofs: A Transition to Advanced Mathematics by Chartrand, Polimeni, and Zhang or An Introduction to Abstract Mathematics by Bond and Keane

just to get good at proof writing

for reference use book of proof, you can find a free pdf from author website.

but I can see that the pdf you gave me covers alot of good stuff, so that's great

[swift sinew]

How do yall typically remember material you've learned on a topic after you're done focusing on it. Like I feel like all of my classes are so disconnected, and "self-contained" that I rarely get to use what I've learned in other classes and then forget a lot of what I've learned. For example, I've forgotten so much abstract algebra, even the basics, because my other classes almost avoid utilizing or referencing it

[static loom]

do more math in your free time that does utilize it

[eager crescent]

Reread past courses regularly

[swift sinew]

Is this common practice among higher level math students

[eager crescent]

Idk about others but I have terrible long term memory so I have to reread my notes every now and then if I don't do things that utilize past knowledge

By regularly I don't mean every other week

But something like every two-three months

[static loom]

I just work on stuff, and as I go I naturally realize things I may have to review and just review in the moment

I don't think it's wise to just constantly be going back and reviewing without trying to make progress towards something, you'll just constantly be stuck in the past imo

[swift sinew]

could you possibly expand a bit more on what you work on in your free time? I think I just have a hard time thinking of stuff to occupy my free time with since i've only ever really done math in a class setting

[eager crescent]

Don't you study outside of class time ?

[static loom]

I guess it depends, are you a math major or not

if you're a math major, you sound like you're in the wrong degree

[swift sinew]

Gator, When i say class setting, I just mean learning math for a class. And yes that does involve studying outside of class.
M, and I am a math major and in my senior year so I don't think that's quite the conversation to be had

[deep mango]

[hollow grotto]

LOL

[eager crescent]

You can pick up books that aren't directly related to what you study to delve into the topic. Researchers usually work on interesting questions that arise in research (either ones they found while doing their own research or reading other papers, or questions that were brought up in the community) if that's your question

[swift sinew]

Ah ok. Also I'm a bit confused by the reactions to my message. Is it kinda frowned upon to not have experience delving into other topics in your free time at this stage?

[eager crescent]

Eh I think it's fine. The priority is always to understand as best you can what you are seeing in class imo. Delving into one topic or another is if you have more time and want to.

Depends on what your goals are after undergrad too

[steep mountain]

depends on what you want from math

[swift sinew]

That's kinda the thing, I've put an absolute ton of time trying to decide what I want to do after undergrad and just cannot decide. Even now, I'm afraid of doing something that I think I'll enjoy and later realize that I don't actually enjoy it and end up wasting valuable time. That is precisely the reason why it's taking me five years to graduate tbh.

I enjoy being around math a lot but rarely have the mental energy and attention span to dive into something deeply that isnt required for a class. And that has definitely limited how much I've been able to get out of math

[eager crescent]

Do you at least have a list of things you want to do ?

[steep mountain]

there is a lot of methods to realize the things you might be passionate about
i think math itself is a great tool to anything you might do later tbh its not a waste of time

[eager crescent]

Or do you not know at all

Yeah you can continue for a masters in almost any other field with a maths degree

Including maths, of course

If it's your senior year you should really try to figure out what you want soon since depending on which country you're in, applications to grad school might be soon

[swift sinew]

Regarding timing of applying, I'm going to take a gap year to settle into the country that I'm moving into. But I have a semi-good idea of what I want out of a career, but not necessarily what specific field I'd want it to be in. And whether its a good idea or not, I'm not sure this is actually the conversation that I'm interested in having. I think I'm moreso interested rn in finding a way to get myself to spend more free time on math since I have yet to successfully do that

I'm also getting the vibe that this conversation might be getting a bit too personal and out of the scope of what this channel/server are meant for

[eager crescent]

Do you have enough free time to do more maths besides studying?

If yes then you just have to pick up any book in a topic you like and work at your own rythm

[swift sinew]

Oh yes absolutely, I just don't know what to bite my teeth into. I notice that when I've decided to delve into something, I often am more attracted to another shiny topic and have trouble keeping myself on the first topic

[eager crescent]

If you don't have a good idea you can just choose one of your classes, look at the recommended books and pick one

[swift sinew]

To just try to get a deeper understanding for what's going on?

[eager crescent]

Yep

Also to see if you like the topic

[deep mango]

I dont "delve into topics" in my free time...

[eager crescent]

You have free time ?

[hollow grotto]

[deep mango]

I play video games, hang out with people, enjoy my day, find interesting places to go...

[eager crescent]

I mean you also use some of that time to do maths surely

[deep mango]

I do what I need to to satisfy the math I want to learn, and I don't do much more than that

And I don't consider that free time, that's part of work

[pale orchid]

i'm with ryc on this one

[deep mango]

I will never review my notes from an algebra class because I do not care to remember anything from that class

[pale orchid]

poor work-life balance will get you nowhere fast

[deep mango]

And if I ever need to remember anything from it, I will go look in a textbook and see what it was I needed to know

And it will take a few minutes to relearn cause the connections were already built in my head a while ago

This mindset works for me because I'm very productive when I need/want to be, and yet I keep up a very healthy work-life balance imo

[cold needle]

someone said that math is just a job

i am trying to internalize this tough because everyone so competitive

or it feels like it

[deep mango]

I try as much as possible to separate non work things from math (besides being on this server).

Not like "try"

[swift sinew]

So is the reason you have a vast understanding of topics because you use them a lot? becuase that's what Im having trouble with, my classes rarely require me to know anything from other classes, even fundamental ones like algebra

[deep mango]

I just... Do what I want in my free time, and it's not math 90% of the time

[deep mango]

I don't have a vast understanding of a lot of topics

I have a familiarity with a lot of topics and a deep understanding of the ones that are relevant to me

Which I use all the time

I.e. most kinds of analysis

And that deep understanding is probably aided by me having a pretty good memory + study routine (time management wise) so I can see where you're coming from there

[hollow grotto]

Analysus

[deep mango]

Like for me just having time to really think through a problem or an idea fully is what lets me internalize it

[static loom]

@swift sinew suppose you knew of someone who went to art school but only did the art that was assigned by teachers and didn't work on any art outside of class, would you think that was normal

[deep mango]

I should say even if I don't do math in my free time as much, I do spend A LOT of time thinking about problems and what I actually am supposed to be doing

[deep mango]

I would applaud the person for touching grass

[pale orchid]

imagine a doctor that doesn't go to the hospital in their free time

[static loom]

what kind of grass? 😏

[pale orchid]

smh

[deep mango]

Obviously there is a happy medium

[latent forge]

I think the point of the arguement is that mathematics is a different activity than doctoring and arting that you need to have extra practice outside the classroom

[deep mango]

But also if you talk to most professional mathematicians about what they do in their free time, you'll get something like "uh... I hang out with my family" 9 times out of 10

[eager crescent]

I mean I can see someone only practicing the methods seen in class. That wouldn't make them less of an artist

[latent forge]

Maybe its similar to arting because you need to do it recreationally to get good

Like you are asking mathematicians what they do outside of math?

[deep mango]

I just don't think you do... I have gained like nothing from the recreational math I've done

[hollow grotto]

Imagine you are good in math, that is only when you are me but you are not so obviously math is not for you noob go code

[latent forge]

Im talking in terms of solving problems

[deep mango]

Maybe that's cause I have been in really rough programs in terms of difficulty

[steep mountain]

i don't think its necessary for everyone to be THAT passionate and invested on there studies
having free time to do other stuff is for 95% of people needed
if you chose to spend more free time studying i mean hey good for you man but dont force yourself to do so just do what you enjoy imo

[ashen river]

Ryc you should see Subhashs Khots interview

[eager crescent]

Eh you don't need to enjoy maths

[ashen river]

"what do u do with your family" "i teach my son math"

[eager crescent]

Physicists don't necessarily enjoy maths even though they may do a bit of it

[deep mango]

No just what they do outside of their literal job

[ashen river]

Khots son is probably better at math than me

Also outside of literal job, hanging with family + friends sounds ideal

What a wonderful life that would be. Haha

[inner finch]

jujjy jaja

[eager crescent]

Obviously you still need "real" free time

[deep mango]

Idk I used to beat myself up over how my best friend could and did literally think about math every waking hour, and talked to me about it all the time, and that I couldn't do that

[hollow grotto]

Lol friends and family what

[inner finch]

yeah that's kinda unhealthy

[deep mango]

And then I got used to it and realized I was learning just as quickly just doing what was healthy for me

[inner finch]

imagine wanting to do math

[deep mango]

It's healthy for him and that's fine

We're just not the same person

[ashen river]

I can't do that either and I'm worried about that too 😭 good to hear that you got over it

[latent forge]

Yea I think I was putting myself down for not being as obsessed with certain math topics as I thought others were, but I realize Im just as obsessed but with different parts of math

[ashen river]

I need human relationships lol

[deep mango]

I'm kind of glad I was forced into this realization

[wicked plank]

Mathematics can be really enjoyable

[latent forge]

amen

[inner finch]

bu tao rune

[swift sinew]

just an aside/closure: ryc I think you've actually helped me find the heart of my problem because I agree that I only really need to think through ideas fully to internalize them long term and I would be surprised if in my first couple years of undergrad, I failed to put in that effort and that's why I dont remmeber much of the material

[inner finch]

fireeeeeee

dun dun dun dun dun dun duun

[deep mango]

But I also understand the perception that, if you don't go to a super intense program, you might need to supplement with your own stuff in order to be competitive in a very hypercompetitive application-driven space

This is more a practical thing than a philosophical thing

But imo it is more important lol

So

[inner finch]

yea bro prioritize irl life over math

[eager crescent]

If you don't do anything that uses the material you'll end up forgetting it after a certain time no matter how well you understood it at the time

[ashen river]

I beat myself up because my dad can work like almost every waking hour

[inner finch]

when you're more healthy mental wise you'll put out better math

[ashen river]

And i cant

[deep mango]

But this is also rectifiable, the more you do it now the more you'll fill in those gaps

[eager crescent]

I bet if you just look at some notes you'll start remembering things

[inner finch]

it is fine

ppl have different tolerences

like my dad has been

[wicked plank]

what do you mean by "healthy mental wise"?

[inner finch]

for the past 3-4 years going out to work at 6 and returning approx 12 at night

[deep mango]

it is fine

[swift sinew]

I really really appreciate all that insight, advice, and help

[inner finch]

being mentally healthy

[latent forge]

wtf

why cant mental health be fake

its real and it sucks

[inner finch]

this doesn't mean ur dad is inferior or i am or you are

its just how it is ukwim

some ppl are more used to it than others

[deep mango]

Dont discount the other stuff you were hearing though! Trying out other styles of working that you dont expect to help can be surprisingly productive and fun

[eager crescent]

Mental health? What's that

[inner finch]

Dont discount the other stuff you were hearing though! Trying out other styles of working that you dont expect to help can be surprisingly productive and fun

[eager crescent]

Robots don't need mental health

[inner finch]

new copypasta just dropped

[deep mango]

Like sometimes for me I get into slumps with my usual working style and I need to change to something more recreational and exploration based to motivate myself

Usually it's just for a little bit and then I get inundated with coursework again and need to just stick to that lol

[latent forge]

lol

ryc

[steep mountain]

you gotta find what works for you

[latent forge]

this is main reason why i contemplate going into industry and living a slow life

i dislike that i have to focus on coursework even though i like the coursework

it just feels like I lose freedom

[ashen river]

Yeah lol doing coursework does feel like saying "yes sir 🙋‍♂️. Whatever you say" even moreso than working a real job

Still

I've been trying to see how far ahead of coursework i can get

Like studying all summer

Bc that way I'm free to do extra work if i want to right

😂

Freedom regained

[latent forge]

lol i thought it would work out

i tried this summer

but i dodnt have good enough consistency

so i didnt accomplished much

[ashen river]

Yeah. It helps that i had a super structured life back at home

Now that I'm in NYC

No such thing as structure here lol

[latent forge]

where in

im from

[crystal dagger]

as a researcher i feel you may get good freedom

[latent forge]

are you one?

[ashen river]

NYU :-) I'm not from here but my dad's family is. Im actually hanging with them right now

[latent forge]

nice

[pale orchid]

in germany, many positions handle work hours on "trust basis"

you don't even need to go to the office

[ashen river]

Huge fan

[pale orchid]

just produce results

[steep mountain]

after my freshmen i just realized "holy shit i need to work on my math " and decided to restudy all my courses
funny enough what started as a task is now my motivation to wake up

[latent forge]

i would move to germany

but idk german and history

[pale orchid]

neither do many phd students lol

[ashen river]

My dream is being reincarnated as a brilliant french mathematician

[latent forge]

im a lil spooked about europe ngl

[crystal dagger]

that's good.

[ashen river]

German mathmeticians are intense lol

[crystal dagger]

Germans are intense.

[crystal stone]

I like the American higher education system a lot, I think there's just so much flexibility in how you can be a student

[ashen river]

I'm CS not math. Italian CS grad students are intense too

[crystal dagger]

cs kekw

[latent forge]

i like american higher education besides forcing gen eds

id also not like to be in america tbh

[ashen river]

I promise it's the Mathier side of CS

Hence why I'm always here

[latent forge]

actually thats false

[crystal stone]

You can get them out of the way through APs or dual enrollment

But it is a pain

[latent forge]

i just wish my location was less political snd we had less political conversations

[crystal stone]

The US in general is very political

[latent forge]

yea

i really hate it ngl

[crystal stone]

Everywhere I've been politics has been front and center

[pale orchid]

avoid all of europe then haha

[latent forge]

yea

[ashen river]

I wish I was in a magical place that was the research triangle in North Carolina except theoretically focused instead of focused on application and no political tomfoolery

[latent forge]

i have a particular aversion towards europe especially as someone who never went there but has only met european international students

they are nice for most part

[crystal stone]

You're getting a very narrow viewpoint

If it's just international students

I mean, I only spent like 6 weeks in Paris

[ashen river]

North Carolina is such a good place to live... So much nature and people are so friendly

[crystal stone]

The summer tho

[ashen river]

Schools are aweful tho

[crystal stone]

NCSU is good

[ashen river]

Oh yeah i mean

[crystal stone]

UNC Chapel Hill?

[ashen river]

Highschools are awful

[latent forge]

yea narrow viewpoint rip

[ashen river]

Like pre college

[crystal stone]

oh, schools are bad everywhere

Even when they're good, they're really not that good

It's just like, less degrees of bad

[latent forge]

i just need to get pro math research experience and then i can think about where to live around the world

[crystal stone]

I think schools for k-12, even some university courses, are too fixated on micro assignments, and micro tasks

Like if you have to write an essay

[deep mango]

I like microtasks

[crystal stone]

You have 2 rough drafts, you have to idetify your topic sentences, thesis statement, supporting evidence

Then you just piece it together, and if you don't do any of the parts by itself, but instead opt to do the whole essay

[ashen river]

My hs was super focused on essays lol. It was mostly kids wanting to go into law and medicine

[crystal stone]

You get marked down

[ashen river]

Now that I'm in CS it's like

What a waste of my time

😂

[deep mango]

In real life you do big projects by breaking them up into micro tasks, and someone should definitely teach you how to do the breaky down bit

I only learned this in my data structures class

Never anywhere else

[crystal stone]

To solve x + 2 = 3 do you use the subtraction principle

[deep mango]

(academics wise)

[crystal stone]

Did you state you used the subtraction principle?

[deep mango]

No of course not

[latent forge]

thats becsuse ive seen that problem before

[crystal stone]

Exactly, that's what micro-tasks amount to in the k-12 system

[steep mountain]

one good thing about our H.S system is students get divided into 4 categories in grade 12
its pretty fitting to avoid the topics you dont care about

[latent forge]

if i ask x+146=37

[deep mango]

Well the point is

[latent forge]

ofc ur gonna microtask jt

[ashen river]

I agree with moonbears, American education is super dumbed down

HS education

[crystal stone]

I agree that breaking up large projects into smaller manageable chunks is a very useful skill

Especially in Higher Ed for complicated stuff

[ashen river]

Even when it's a hard topic like AP euro or smth

[deep mango]

I can write an essay now and not think at all about topic sentences, and the essay will be good

[ashen river]

Gets spoonfed to u

[crystal stone]

But they apply it to the most rudimentary things

That 95% of students don't need assistance with

[deep mango]

But when I tried to do that in middle school I wrote a messy piece of shit

[latent forge]

do they qq

i wish my classes had more examples

too much theory not enuf examples

imo

[crystal stone]

Just ask your instructor to do more examples in class

See if it works

[latent forge]

oh good point

[crystal stone]

If they say no, ask them where you can find more examples to read up on

🤷‍♂️

[deep mango]

Similarly you'll talk to people who have no idea what x is if 5x + 2 = 12, and you and I can just look at it and go "it's 2. Just look at it!" because we just look at it and 2 pops into our head

[eager crescent]

Just come to France

[steep mountain]

quite the opposite here
not enough theory too much examples lmao

[deep mango]

But i dont see how you can teach 2 popping into someones head

[ashen river]

Me when i talk to students who came from IIT to NYU

[crystal stone]

From what I've experienced is that students don't think about undoing process, they just try numbers out till it works

[ashen river]

Their arguments skip so many basic operations

It makes my head hurt

[deep mango]

I was taught "subtract 2, and then divide by 5" and then at some point that morphed into "2 pops into my head"

[crystal stone]

It's fine to teach that, but I'm specifically talking about micro-tasks where they specifically make you do that for like 40-50 problems

[steep mountain]

interesting way to explain building intuition

[crystal stone]

Like 5x + 2 = 12

[deep mango]

Ok, sure, I see what you mean

[crystal stone]

By the subtraction principle 5x = 10

By the division principle x = 2

[deep mango]

As opposed to like, teaching why the thing is working

[crystal stone]

It's good for a few examples, to give students some sort of structure or scaffolding

Especially if students need it

[deep mango]

Which is what some kids figure out of course

But

Always on their own

[crystal stone]

I almost always do problems without the scaffolding first, and ask students to think of the processes that led to the answer

And have them discover what the rules are

Overall, for the students that participate in this, do better (in my experience)

But if students just don't do anything, then of course this is worse

[latent forge]

btw

random question

[crystal stone]

Because I'm not feeding a recipe to solve everything

[ashen river]

My best calc class that i ever had (😌 still gives me chills it was so good) she'd teach us all the principles and then have us do huge amounts of problemsets on our own

[latent forge]

but as someone looking for math career, when should you worry about drug testing

do they do it for grad school

[crystal stone]

Are you applying for defense contract work or federal/military work?

[steep mountain]

drug testing for what?

[latent forge]

ive been discouraged from doing so

[pale orchid]

i've never heard of them doing that at all

[crystal stone]

Ok, so then you don't need to worry

[ashen river]

R u thinking of trying to adderal your way into grad school? Lol

[crystal stone]

Grad schools can't drug tust

test*

The faculty would fail

C'mon

[latent forge]

lol

[latent forge]

no im just slightly concerned

also reus might?

[crystal stone]

No

They don't drug test

[pale orchid]

eating too many poppy seeds?

[crystal stone]

That being said

You shouldn't be doing drugs without a prescription

That's my two cents

[latent forge]

im just going to stay away from all drugs to stay safe

i trust you moonbears

[eager crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/skeptical-futurama-fry-hmmm-i-got-my-eyes-on-you-gif-17101711

[crystal stone]

I mean that's the wise choice

I've seen drugs destroy so many lives

Albeit by their own choosing, and I think people have a fundamental right to choose what goes in their body

But

[eager crescent]

I don't want maths to go anywhere my body

[pale orchid]

that is very much a different usage of "go fuck yourself"

[eager crescent]

My body, my choice

[latent forge]

yea

[steep mountain]

there is always that "i wont get addicted to it im just trying it" guy
best not to imo
there is better pleasures out there

[latent forge]

i dont want to destroy my brain

its a bit scary

[eager crescent]

Some drugs are very addictive

And they get addictive after the first taste

Others are less so

I don't know much about which is which, I just don't do drugs

[steep mountain]

its not like alcohol where you can just say "ahhh whats the harm in doing it a couple times"
its made to build addiction

but its your choice after all

[eager crescent]

Your brain, your choice

[pale orchid]

until it isn't because you've developed a dependence on the substance

[latent forge]

yea its bad bad

[latent forge]

care to elaborate, ive always enjoyed those stories

in that they build perspective

[steep mountain]

sadist

[crystal stone]

Not details, just friends and family

Doing drugs they shouldn't do. No one OD'd, but they definitely ruined their lives for at least 2 or 3 years

Luckily they got it together, but it came close to the point of no return

For my family, we were almost homeless when I was 9

[pale orchid]

i've seen doctors have to move out of the states cuz they had their license revoked

[crystal stone]

Due to my dads drug addiction

[pale orchid]

can't get a job anymore

[ashen river]

The best drug is trying to be a good person

[pale orchid]

for too many DUIs

(influence of prescription narcotics)

[eager crescent]

At least they didn't use any drugs that make you dumb

[latent forge]

damn

[ashen river]

Why try weed when u could try working i a soup kitchen

[ashen river]

Ie weed

Not worth

[latent forge]

actually

[eager crescent]

Oh is this weed that make you dumb?

[latent forge]

good points

[eager crescent]

[latent forge]

i was thinking alcohol and weed were fine

but not mixed

thats nono

[vivid halo]

no lol

[eager crescent]

Also people have different reactions to drugs, you never know if you're gonna have an uncommon reaction

[ashen river]

Binge drinking ages your brain

Don't do that either

[steep mountain]

its fine from time to time

[eager crescent]

Does binge drinking water also do that

[steep mountain]

as long as you know what you're doing

[pale orchid]

it kills you very quickly, yes

water intoxication is a thing

[latent forge]

yea

[vivid halo]

like if you're going to drink it's healthier to do a little bit more often than a lot a bit less often

[eager crescent]

Shit. My brain must be at least 23 years old now

[latent forge]

yea thats probably it

[vivid halo]

yea all amounts being equal

[latent forge]

its healthier to not touch it ngl

[vivid halo]

oh sure

[ashen river]

Yeah. Drinking some beer or wine with friends

[latent forge]

same with psychedelics

[pale orchid]

a lot of people also forget that each bottle of beer is 200~500 cals

[latent forge]

how do people manage after a bad trip

[pale orchid]

you can lose weight very easily by cutting out drinks

[ashen river]

Every week is a lot better than pulling up to a frat party every month

[steep mountain]

since im skinny i guess i should drink more

gotcha

[ashen river]

Beer will fatten u up

[latent forge]

wtf is that reaction

[vivid halo]

idk it's pretty easy to avoid bad trips

[steep mountain]

busting out 6 cans of beer rn

[ashen river]

You can drink small beer

[vivid halo]

and even if you do get one it's like

[ashen river]

Not very alcoholic

[vivid halo]

usually not the end of the world

[ashen river]

Don't have to get drunk

[surreal sapphire]

there are no bad trips, only difficult ones

and thats kinda what you signed up for

[latent forge]

bad trips feel like end of the world wtf

[vivid halo]

I mean there are definitely bad trips lol

[ashen river]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_beer

I'm actually 100% serious

Small beer can fatten u up

[latent forge]

im just confused how its not discouraging

[ashen river]

If u need

[eager crescent]

Porridge like

[vivid halo]

I mean yea it's discouraging for sure

[surreal sapphire]

i dunno, my best trips were "difficult" at least in part

[vivid halo]

but like

idk

[eager crescent]

Just don't drink

How is it discouraging

[surreal sapphire]

also you can kinda hard cancel the hallucinations part at least of psychedelics

[vivid halo]

I had a particularly difficult trip once and I'd still do psychs again if I had access to them

[surreal sapphire]

i mean what

[vivid halo]

just have to be like

not stupid with them

[latent forge]

stupid like dosages?

[vivid halo]

no it's more like

don't be stupid and take a bunch of psychs with a large group of people you don't know that well

[surreal sapphire]

set and setting

[latent forge]

yea man

friends are super fucking nice

[eager crescent]

Not taking any also works

[vivid halo]

I mean I prefer to take them alone tbh

[latent forge]

i mean for bad trips?

[steep mountain]

ye i'd like to be the boring guy who doesnt trip and make sure everyone stays alive tbh

[latent forge]

i want someone there incase i fucking die lol

[vivid halo]

you won't lol

[latent forge]

it feels like it

its all psychological afterall

[surreal sapphire]

its all temporary

and as i said, you can hardcancel the hallucinations

[latent forge]

yeah but it can feel like forever

[vivid halo]

worst that happens is you get like really incredibly anxious and freak out for a bit

[latent forge]

you cant hardcancel delusions

[surreal sapphire]

ofc this requires access to more drugs lmao

[vivid halo]

so you just like

lie down and let it happen

helps to have some xanax to abort the trip

if anything just knowing that you can do that if need be makes most of the anxiety go away

[latent forge]

wait wut

xanax is antipsychotic?

[vivid halo]

I mean if you take a xanax while you're on psychs

it like

hard cancels the effects

and more or less aborts the trip

[surreal sapphire]

benzodiazepines shut down the part of the brain that is responsible for most of the trip

[latent forge]

i wish i knew

[surreal sapphire]

benzos are kinda super dangerous though

[latent forge]

yea

[surreal sapphire]

not sure about xanax specifically but in general

[vivid halo]

yea definitely

[pale orchid]

you can die from an od with them, yeah. they're also addictive themselves.

[latent forge]

ng whats worst trip u had like?

[vivid halo]

they're definitely really bad to fuck around with

for very particular applications like this they can be worth it

[surreal sapphire]

the od is not the main danger

i know lots of people who (accidentally) mix them with alcohol

and its super easy to die from that

[vivid halo]

yea that's really bad

[latent forge]

wait wtf

nvm then

i wish i didnt. know this

good thing you brought up warning lol

[vivid halo]

I mean I had some trip involving a lot of acid with people I didn't know very well and got really panicked and disoriented and had to call my dad and get picked up because I was freaking out lol

was fine after that

just very chaotic at the time

could not talk coherently

[surreal sapphire]

"dad i did acid again, pls come pick me up"

[vivid halo]

got stuck in a bit of a time loop lol

[latent forge]

yea

time loops suck

[vivid halo]

yea it was somewhat frightening

but it was just like

[latent forge]

5 minutes feel like 3 hours

so sad when it happens

[vivid halo]

afterwards it was like "oh I know why that happened lmfao"

and it was fine

[latent forge]

just never ask for the. time

[vivid halo]

mostly what set it off was like

other people around me were freaking the fuck out

which caused me to freak the fuck out

[latent forge]

yes that adds to it

bruh how is that not discouraging

[vivid halo]

I mean I probably wouldn't do that kind of set and setting again lmfao

maybe if that were my first and only experience with psychs I'd probably stay away from them

I had enough really good experiences before that to know why that went wrong

[latent forge]

so learning from mistakes in a way

[vivid halo]

I mean yea it was kinda obvious why that trip went south lol

[latent forge]

when anxeity and delusions are at their peak thats the scariest imo

[vivid halo]

yea definitely very jarring

[latent forge]

i wouldnt have balls to call parents like u anyways

cus they arent in position to help

also cant reliably focus to call anyone or look at phone tbh

[vivid halo]

I mean I just needed to get out of there and my parents were always really clear about the whole "if you get into some shitty situation and need to be picked up we won't judge you"

oh yea it took like

a few fucking attempts

for that call to make sense

I think the first two were like

total jibberish

[latent forge]

lol

also someone said its all temporary

i agree sorta to an extent

i feel like somethings can be permanent

but maybe we dont know

[surreal sapphire]

there is more research into that now

as psychedelics are used more and more in research

[latent forge]

im convinced there are permanent effects

[surreal sapphire]

i.e. some scientists think that microdosing will permanently alter brain structure

[latent forge]

tbh idk what this is supposed to mean

brains are really complicated and im sure lots of menial tasks have effects on our brains

[vivid halo]

I mean lots of things have permanent effect on the brain lol

I don't think there's any evidence for like permanently fucking up your brain from psychs, bad trips in particular

other than cases of like schizophrenia where the evidence seems to point towards just triggering this earlier than it might have otherwise

you can probably fuck yourself up more or less permanently if you're like

taking heroic doses literally every week

but that's silly

[latent forge]

what would you consider heroic doses lol

lol

[vivid halo]

I mean I've known people that took like 500ug+ doses every week for a while

they got kinda fried for a while lmfao

but ended up fine after they cleaned up their act for a while

[latent forge]

yes cleaning up act is important ig

idk probably should stay away from drugs entirely if I wanna minimize developing mental illness

[vivid halo]

yea the brain is surprisingly resilient, you can definitely go back to near normal even after insanely heavy drug abuse in a lot of cases

[latent forge]

thats my top fear

[surreal sapphire]

eh, there are some things to consider i.e. i would not suggest psychedelics to anyone under the age of ~25 as their brains are not yet fully developed

[vivid halo]

yea

[latent forge]

bruh

[vivid halo]

or at least a good deal of caution

and awareness of mental health history in the family

like you should stay away from them entirely if your family has a history of certain mental health issues

[latent forge]

i dont truly understand what that claim means even though ive heard it often, but I can blindly take advice

yea