#serious-discussion

1 messages · Page 463 of 1

quiet geode
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Is this some sort of approximation since we do not have enough information to calculate the exact value?

leaden torrent
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no?

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its a totally exact process and we make no untoward or approximating assumptions

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example

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lets say i have 10 students and two sports, A and B

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A has 6 students, B has 7

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so A doesnt have 4, B doesnt have 3

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we only care about the maximum case

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so if theres a case where a student, say Jim, is neither in A nor B

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we can disregard that case

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since itll be strictly worse than a case where every student not in A is in B

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hence we can assume theres no overlap, ie no students not doing multiple sports.

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this is just a basic principle of maximum/minimum computations

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rule out everything except the best/worst cases

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think on the margin

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etc

quiet geode
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Lets say

leaden torrent
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i really dont understand how i can explain this better

quiet geode
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No i understood whatever you said

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It is just that the idea of maximum/minimum feels like an approximation (even though their definitions say that theyre "exact") because there isnt enough information to calculate the exact values of students playing the different combinations of sports

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The idea of assuming worst case scenarios radiates away a feel of approximation

leaden torrent
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but... the question explicitly asked for a minimum

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if it didnt ask for one, then yeah, sure

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there isnt enough info and my method isnt valid for all cases

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but it only asked for a specific case

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the "best case" in terms of minimum

quiet geode
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Right

leaden torrent
quiet geode
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Bruh

leaden torrent
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its a judgment call thing, hence why we're not too picky on it

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and its not like we're monopolizing competitive 5 am discussion space or anything

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so its fine

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just a note

quiet geode
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👍

dapper pivot
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weird question but do we know how emotions work?? idk how to explain it

vast surge
dapper pivot
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vector space?

vast surge
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Yeah

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It's going to be like 4 or 5 dimensional, I can't remember offhand

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I remember that one of the bases is happiness, one is excitedness, but I can't remember the others.

dapper pivot
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😭 no like…

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how are emotions created and stuff im confused on how they work

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cause i read an article but it doesn’t dive deep into it

leaden torrent
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a bunch of complicated biological functions that we still dont fully understand

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we know how they happen but not how it works

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mostly neurotransmitters and hormones though

dapper pivot
leaden torrent
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maybe in a few decades of neuroscience research.

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maybe.

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like we know the basics

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we know what hormones are associated with what emotions typically

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we know what causes our bodies to produce them

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etcetc

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we just dont know what actually... happens when stuff binds with receptors

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that creates an emotional response

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basic stuff like stress stimulating heart muscles and thus raising heart rate is easy enough to see

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but most is still a big ???

dapper pivot
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so would you say we only know what percentage of the brain

leaden torrent
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thats hard to quantify

dapper pivot
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give rough i guess

leaden torrent
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id wager just above 0%, considering we still dont know how, like, consciousness works

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and other basics

honest phoenix
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guys i need help

stray kite
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dont we all

neat lintel
honest phoenix
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what is the symbole of for all here

leaden torrent
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$\forall$

fathom swallowBOT
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Namington

105878844061286400.png
honest phoenix
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thx

leaden torrent
honest phoenix
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ah ok

stray kite
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how do people in academia make money

pale orchid
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by begging

vast surge
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Mostly by forcing undergrads to buy their overpriced textbooks

pale orchid
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you write proposals all year long

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and beg people to give you money for those projects

vast surge
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You get a lecture of like 150 people and you charge them each $150 for your calculus textbook or whatever and you force them to buy it, that's 22 thousand already.

stray kite
pale orchid
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yeah the book stuff doesn't ring true

vast surge
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I know I'm kidding

stray kite
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dont writers of textbooks also like
not make much money off them anyway

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tfw publishers

pale orchid
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the begging part is true tho

stray kite
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lmao

pale orchid
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the job of many profs and post docs is shooting a fuckton of proposals anywhere and everywhere all year

vast surge
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My computer science professor was like "you can buy the textbook, I won't make any money from it, all the proceeds just go to the publisher, so there's also a pdf on my website"

neat lintel
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Yes, When I wanted to publish a book, 50% commission was asked. 😦

crystal stone
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ez give me my nobel prize now

bold ferry
bronze pelican
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Whats a good djvu reader

devout nacelle
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I use WinDjview on PC, and Librera on phone/tablet.

bronze pelican
devout nacelle
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They're both smooth on functioning, but I don't think either has the option to edit/scribble over the files.

stray kite
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but i barely use djvus so

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idk

deep mango
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I think you've got an uphill battle for most things you could be doing in a math phd program

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If you're looking at schools that have strong math/cs research and collaboration, and you're talking about wanting to work with those people, that's probably the best angle

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I mean the main thing is just having done a lot of proof based math and having the foundational background in analysis/algebra you get from a math major

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I mean both

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They're accepting people who they think will do well with the work

slim meadow
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Maybe consider doing a masters to bridge the gap?

deep mango
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It's not really like undergrad where you're trying to show all these extracurriculars and stuff

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Also a lot of these top programs like to see a bit of research in the area. So that might be not something you'd have the opportunity for in a comp eng degree

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Depends

latent forge
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I guess I have a question

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What can you do to actively beat the competition?

deep mango
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That would probably help a lot

slim meadow
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Maybe, but research is pretty narrow and so it's hard to say you know all the basics of a topic even if you publish in that topic

deep mango
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But

latent forge
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Or do I just need to wait for approval a lot of times, like hoping I get accepted to REUs

deep mango
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It's mostly networking tbh

latent forge
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Thats what I was thinking );

deep mango
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Just trying to make good impressions on important people and maintain relationships

latent forge
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So this is why sleep is important

deep mango
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There's not a lot else you can do besides "practice and git gud"

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Which is like

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Also not a satisfying answer

slim meadow
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Yeah, just focus on learning math and doing math and things will come tbh

latent forge
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Ill just treat this like an osu grind

deep mango
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Yeah the networking stuff happens if you are excited about what you're learning and you show it to profs

slim meadow
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Get involved in things, like DRPs if your school has them, or reading groups

deep mango
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It's sort of a side effect

latent forge
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Im just worried that Ill put in this effort and then become homeless or a mayh teacher

deep mango
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At least at the undergrad level

latent forge
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and not get into anything

deep mango
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Well

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First of all

slim meadow
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There are a lot of things that math majors can end up doing, that aren't academia

deep mango
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Make an effort to take one or two CS or eng classes or something

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Like

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Just pop em in there

latent forge
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I have programming experience and some personal projects to show for it

deep mango
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At least then you have a more comfy plan B

latent forge
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But im not sure how secure a plan B it is

deep mango
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Well yeah but it would be good to have a few courses (if you can skip to a proper algorithms course, that's what I mean)

latent forge
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im just really worried that ill not break ice of getting into grad program

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i truly have no perspective besides whats on this server

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people ive met irl just said it was mostly REUs and good recs

deep mango
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Yeah

latent forge
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but there is nothing I can do that activitively get there );

deep mango
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Which again come from getting to know people and being amicable

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Like

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It's not like you have to be impressive

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In those interactions

latent forge
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oh im not impressive

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so i dont need to worry

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idk if its just me but the thought of applying is sorta depressing not anxious because it feels like its mostly out of my control

slim meadow
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What year are you in

latent forge
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3

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I barely know anything about applying either and when I compare this to HS I wouldve known a lot more back then when applying to college compared to now

deep mango
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I mean I knew nothing either in year 3

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Youll probably hear a lot about it here when it starts to get closer

latent forge
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the phd students at my school say they forgot

pale orchid
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although it's not the same, i've been participating in interviews for engineering phd applicants lately, idk if you have any specific concerns about it

latent forge
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even the first years

deep mango
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In mid november to december

latent forge
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ok ill just visit advisor biweekly ig

slim meadow
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Yeah I didn't think about it at all until I started my last year really

untold sapphire
astral marsh
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yeah but you were involved in math club and stuff a lot @slim meadow

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meanwhile i feel like i know almost no math majors here

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i mean, i know some, but i basically just have 1 friend who does math and that's it

crystal stone
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PhD Applications Redux

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If I don't get in this cycle I might just go teach CC and open up my own math tutoring business

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I can't keep holding out for forever for some opportunity

slim meadow
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do you mean a private tutor?

leaden torrent
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wait wtf

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de brujin worked on automated theorem proving

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?????

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dude i thought de brujin was way older than this

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still weird to me

untold sapphire
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yeah

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this was like

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massively under recognized at the time

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first systematic study of dependent types!!!

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wow!!

slim meadow
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I mean the max is a lot

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I've heard of like 100 or 120 dollars per hour

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the average is probably closer to like 40-60 though

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but this depends pretty heavily on the area you live in and what you teach

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Like private tutors that teach for college entrance exams charge more

sand forum
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Has anyone gotten like all 100 in algebra 2?

atomic cypress
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i got an reu through nepotism

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as an undergrad

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it was grand

bronze pelican
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That seems to be how it works

latent forge
latent forge
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arent u rly good how no phd student yet

atomic cypress
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i took a lot of phd courses and a prof asked me if i was an undergrad i said yes and he said "join my reu"

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god i love nepotism

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i was also doing research at the time in another department so i was two timing the math department too

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i believe zoomers call it "cucking"

crystal stone
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I was rejected from all ten schools last time due to covid-19, funding issues, and my research prof left UC Irvine

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So when I applied there was no one to vouch for me, I was considered out of state, and my GPA isn't that great

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But my letters & research experience are fantastic

crystal stone
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Transferring from CC to UCLA, the summer before I started

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I said "No thanks, I'll just study on my own"

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because I didn't feel ready for an REU

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If I could go back in time and shoot myself

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I would

atomic cypress
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dude

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...dude

crystal stone
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lol

atomic cypress
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when i started my reu i was almost intimidated until i realized that nobody else had read daddy rudin

crystal stone
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I mean I was just coming out of a community college

atomic cypress
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but you mustve impressed a prof

crystal stone
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So the most advanced things I had learned was Jacobson's Algebra

atomic cypress
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what class did you get the offer in

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hm

crystal stone
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And Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds

atomic cypress
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i dont know jacobson

crystal stone
atomic cypress
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i assume he means actually basic and isnt pulling a weil or shafarevich here

crystal stone
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I mean it is from the group axioms

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The prof. was from a different community college, he was doing an REU in analysis with one of the local universities

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I had given a presentation on ||Group theory|| at the seminar at their community college

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So after that he had invited me, he asked me what I liked at the time and I told him Riemannian Geometry/Analysis

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He got it and funding, and I still said no

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I'm a dumbass

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In my MS program I wanted to do research with the resident Knot Theorist since he had a habit of getting papers with students and sending them to UCSB

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But he already had one MS student, two undergrad students, and a kid on the way

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So I was SOL there

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The resident Algebraic geometer, which interested me at the time was the department head so he didn't have time

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The analyst was retired from research

atomic cypress
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bruh i havent cringed this hard in a while

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you literally rejected an reu

crystal stone
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So I went over to UC Irvine, met with a harmonic analyst there

atomic cypress
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i wanna cry for you

crystal stone
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Went to every seminar for a quarter

atomic cypress
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did uc irvine work out

crystal stone
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Then asked for a research project

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He said yes, and we got a paper together

atomic cypress
crystal stone
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So, just wait it gets spicier

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I leave fucking Irvine, and he does too

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So when I apply I'm out of state, and he's not there to vouch for me

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So I got rejected from every program

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He's back in Irvine, but now his wife just gave birth to his first kid so research with him is going to be put on hold for another year at least

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Hopefully he vouches for me

atomic cypress
crystal stone
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He asked the department head why I was rejected

atomic cypress
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I like to think all of your difficulties just exponentially outflowed from your decision to reject an REU

crystal stone
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He said it was because I was out of state, and he wasn't there to fight for me on top of covid-19 limited funding

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Then the department head reached out to me and told me "I strongly encourage you to apply next cycle"

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That's where I'm at now

atomic cypress
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How long since you've attended Irvine?

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And what flavor of harmonic analysis do you do now

crystal stone
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I only attended for one quarter

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I was a grad student at CSULB, I attended winter 2020-spring 2020

latent forge
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well im crying

crystal stone
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I took a research course, and harmonic analysis

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I do research at the intersection of harmonic analysis, pdes, convex analysis, and probability

latent forge
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is it possible for me to even hope of getting a phd if you arent getting one as an MS graduate

crystal stone
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Mainly we're interested in some convex inequality which gives rise to a PDE

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But the inequality is embedded in some probabilistic stuff, that is only known to be attackable with probability

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In particular, brownian motion

atomic cypress
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hmm our phds have the same ingredients

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except im doing a totally different thing

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maybe harmonic analysis, pdes, and probability is a popular combo

latent forge
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so is it the right move to go for an MS then a PhD im confused

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or BS to PhD

crystal stone
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The better move is BS to PhD

atomic cypress
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you can go for a phd immediately

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yeh

crystal stone
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But I personally benefitted from doing a MS first

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I definitely wasn't ready after finishing my BS

latent forge
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?

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how

crystal stone
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I was like technically ready, but my body and mind weren't there

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I had some things to iron out

latent forge
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im in no way a better applicant than you would be

crystal stone
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I think I needed more grad courses under my belt. I finished undergrad w/ 7 grad courses

latent forge
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wtf

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that isnt enough?

crystal stone
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I didn't feel ready

slim meadow
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masters applicants are probably judged more harshly

crystal stone
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I mean this is purely subjective

latent forge
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this is depressing

crystal stone
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Well the other thing was I was in a particular bind because I needed 1 or 2 units to graduate

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So I just went to the local school instead of UCLA because finances

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So I did 3 grad courses there for the price of 1 grad class at UCLA and not as long as a commute

latent forge
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Im expecting to have 12 grad courses but that isnt too much different from 7? Like really what is expected of me when applying for phd?

crystal stone
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I think the only thing expected of you

slim meadow
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12 is a lot more than most people getting into grad school have

crystal stone
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Is you know undergrad material, you might have some research experience, and your letters are decent

slim meadow
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its more than I had too

latent forge
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?

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so 7 isnt but 12 is?

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im way too confused

crystal stone
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I mean, I just felt I wasn't ready for a PhD

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That was me personally

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I could've totally gone to like Irvine, Riverside or something and been fine

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But I just wasn't up to it at the time

latent forge
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why do you say that, atm im not ready for one and idk if I will feel like that when in a year for whatever reason

crystal stone
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I'm really glad I did my MS at CSULB

latent forge
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oh wait you had chances?

crystal stone
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I totally could have applied earlier

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I was just psych'd out of it because I didn't feel ready

slim meadow
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i dont really think anyone going to grad school feels "ready for it"

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its just a lot of faking it til you make it

crystal stone
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I feel really ready for it now

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I'm like 100% confident that I can do well in a PhD program

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And the MS program I did built that confidence

atomic cypress
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There are definitely people not ready for a PhD

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math and other theoretical topics especially punish those who aren't ready

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it's not like data science or something where you can submit a meme paper to neurips and get a job immediately

crystal stone
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I guess one thing I was used to, at CC I got a lot of personal attention

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at UCLA I got less personal attention

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From faculty ~ even though some of the coursework I did at CC was just as rigorous and as difficult as the courses at UCLA

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At CSULB I found that personal attention again, and I was able to do a lot better

sick burrow
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Wait so when should you start seriously thinking about grad school applications

tawny spoke
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Prob like a year before applying

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Gotta plan for the GRE and think harder about what classes to take

slim meadow
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Also thinking about who your rec letter writers are going to be

latent forge
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because im not sure if I will be

atomic cypress
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if you haven't already won a fields medal its too late

latent forge
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mind the perspective

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you are a phd student

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i am a lowly undergrad

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the phd students in my class are fantastically impressive

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i dont see how I can know what they know in a year or two

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yes ill know different topics

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but i feel as if id lack breadth

deep mango
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I won the fields during sophomore year of undergrad, but I still only got into 2 grad schools. I think my coursework was lacking in the derived harmonic geometry stuff

slim meadow
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idk a year or two is a long time, look back at two years for yourself and think about how many new things you've learned

latent forge
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oh shit

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a year ago i was taking first algebra course

atomic cypress
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what year are you

latent forge
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3

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also im in a weird situation at my school

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ive only met 6 other math majors in my school

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and my school has over 20k students

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over 30k

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6 in my year*

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the ones I met freshman year switched out

atomic cypress
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there are not many math majors in some schools. i think in my undergrad year there were only 6 of us who were really competitive for phd programs. since you're thinking about it you may yourself be competitive.

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work hard on your subject gre

last oxide
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going for direct phd cause supervisor said I was ready
kinda monkaS
it is not common here

atomic cypress
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math phds are relatively rare and hard compared to others

halcyon basin
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How do you guys picture math?

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Cause to me it's just numbers

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Numbers with rules I don't understand

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And outcomes that piss me off

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Let's say 3x^2+2x-1 is < 5x+10

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Or something

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I know what those individual symbols mean

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And numbers

vivid halo
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Idk imagine the graph of these things

halcyon basin
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But my brain sees it as gobbildy gook

vivid halo
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You probably won’t be able to like

halcyon basin
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Might as well be black magic

neat lintel
vivid halo
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Without doing some algebra you can’t likely get all the points right

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But you get the basic shape yea?

halcyon basin
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A square makes a parabola

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So that graph would most likely be in an upward u shape

vivid halo
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Yes

halcyon basin
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As it's not negative

vivid halo
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So you have a parabola and a line

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Without doing a little bit of algebra or plugging in values you don’t know how these two are arranged

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Maybe the parabola is entirely above the line

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Maybe it intersects the line at one point or two points

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But at least you have a few possibilities and then you can try to do some algebra or plug in points to narrow down the possibilities

halcyon basin
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I see your point

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I guess I'll have to keep practicing

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I'm just gonna call math the thinking game

vivid halo
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Sometimes the equations are written in a way that is easier to visualize

halcyon basin
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The numbers don't matter the point is to think

vivid halo
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Like if you have y=(x-2)^2+5 you know it’s a parabola shifted two to the right and up five

halcyon basin
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Hah

vivid halo
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Whereas if you’re given the expanded form like x^2-4x+9

halcyon basin
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I can actually visualize what your saying

vivid halo
#

Not so easy to like

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Get that same picture

halcyon basin
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Maybe studying for 6 hrs a day is paying off

vivid halo
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Without some algebra

last oxide
halcyon basin
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Maybe I just do a mindset shift

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Turn math from a pain in the ass for my gpa

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And more so a game to be dissected and messed with

vivid halo
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Yea it’s a very beautiful subject if you are patient with it and allow yourself to play around with it

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Math is really fun when you’re able to explore it, learning it just for the sake of passing exams or whatever takes some of the fun out of it

halcyon basin
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Honestly I've noticed the only reasons I get it wrong. A) I forgot old knowledge I need to use for the problem. B) I know the formula but not how it interacts with individual pieces or C) unit error I just mess up a number.

vivid halo
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Yea these are all common things

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Most of these things can be solved with practice

halcyon basin
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Ill try to stay committed

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Ive been reading about atomic habits

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so i just decided to spend 30 minutes studying my subjects

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each

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then rest and try to recall later

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and so on

vivid halo
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One of the most helpful habits early on in math is to practice checking your own work and catching your own mistakes

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This is something I notice a lot from the students I teach like

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Ideally it shouldn’t be a surprise that something has gone wrong in a problem

atomic cypress
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"be rigorous"

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"when the question asks you to prove something for all numbers, don't just pick a number and show it works for that one"

latent forge
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teafortwo thanks for the advice

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I think im just stressing about it because my sleep schedule is fucked up

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i know i have to study for gre but not aure when tbh

neat lintel
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this is what happens when you study topology

slim meadow
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tterra i have my oral manifolds qual tomorrow help pls

neat lintel
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how am i supposed to help

vast surge
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Teach zoph about oral manifolds obviously

slim meadow
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teach me everything in Lee

neat lintel
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which lee

slim meadow
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smooth

neat lintel
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sard theorem, lie derivative, stokes, cohomology, frobenius

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that's basically it

slim meadow
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id shoot myself if it was riemannian

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idk how much I should think about transversality

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i just rlly dont know what the prof is going to ask lmao

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theres no way he could ask me to give a proof of sards right

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or ask me to give a proof of weak whitney

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whats ur intuition about lie derivative

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just generalizing directional derivative?

neat lintel
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kind of

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you're differentiating along the flow of your vector field

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so they tell you how your object (vector field, function, differential form) changes as you move it along a flow

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if you need to prove anything involving lie derivative's it's usually easier to think of it as the first order term in a taylor expansion

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like, if $X$ has flow $F_t$ and $\omega$ is a form, then $$F_t^*\omega = \omega + t\mathcal{L}_X\omega + o(t)$$

fathom swallowBOT
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TTerra

222878770862882816.png
neat lintel
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i find it's a LOT easier to prove things about lie derivatives by writing them like this, maybe useful if you end up having a problem like that

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idk how oral exams work

clever knot
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Are oral exams not just a fun chat?

neat lintel
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i like to draw pictures of flow lines and things being moved around when i can't figure something out about them

clever knot
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Or is it some sort of vocal walkthrough

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Of what you are thinking / doing

crystal stone
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I've had fun with one

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and not fun with the other

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Basically the second you show you know something

slim meadow
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Okay the taylor series thing makes sense

crystal stone
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They will switch topics on you

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Or at least that's what happened to me

clever knot
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So take over the exam and start asking them question. That's the power move

neat lintel
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now specifying: the lie derivative of two vector fields is the obstruction to their flows commuting

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which is good to keep in mind

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L_XY = 0 if and only if the flows of X and Y commute

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fun thing to keep in mind ig

slim meadow
#

What does commuting here mean? Just that flowing along one and then the other is the same as the opposite order?

neat lintel
#

pretty much

#

there might be some annoying issues like flows not being defined for all time but that's the gist of it

slim meadow
#

okay sure yeah

#

i still need to learn what frobenius is

last oxide
neat lintel
#

make sure to check out the differential forms versions

#

you can use it to prove some fun facts about lie groups

#

which i don't remember because it's been months since i studied geometry

slim meadow
#

we have rlly switched huh

#

im busy studying geometry and ur busy studying analytic number theory

neat lintel
#

lol

#

ANT is fun

#

unfortunately there was only one topology/geometry related course this semester and taking it would have been pointless

#

although my control theory course might end on some riemannian stuff

slim meadow
#

there was a special topics here on like

#

deformation theory of riemann surfaces or something

#

that would've been scary

neat lintel
#

indeed

deep mango
latent forge
#

rip sleeping issues

#

you ever just trying to fall asleep

#

but then you think about math

#

and then you think about a definition

#

but you can’t remember so you wake up and look it up

fast ivy
#

I am sort of doing this right now 👀

#

Was doing some problems

#

And then some clifford algebra stuff came up

#

And then I started searching for some references

#

And I've been reading on clifford algebras for two hours lmao

#

It's 2 am now 😭

latent forge
#

honestly i think its a sign we need to fix our sleep schedule

narrow rock
#

clifford algebras AWOOKEN

light needle
#

oof nice mistersystem

sick burrow
#

well 12:53

fast ivy
fast ivy
#

So it's 2 am here

sick burrow
#

est is the one true timezoen

#

because it's the one I'm in

light needle
#

read some analysis and ull fall a sleep ez

latent forge
#

actually

#

its the opposite for me

#

number theory is dreamland

sick burrow
#

what do you read to fall asleep then Most

fast ivy
sick burrow
#

oh NT

#

I need to do some NT

fast ivy
sick burrow
#

I know approximately none

latent forge
#

someone was given an algorithms problem

fast ivy
#

All I know about number theory is some baby stuff

#

Like the introduction of Ireland-Rosen

sick burrow
#

all I know is the proof of Collatz

#

though that's more philosophical than mathematical

fast ivy
#

I really like Ireland-Rosen because it's pretty much algebra oriented

sick burrow
#

and by proof of Collatz I do mean proof that Lothar Collatz did exist

leaden torrent
sick burrow
#

what does that even mean Namington

fast ivy
sick burrow
#

like that's clearly some joke

#

and I'm sure it's very clever

#

but I'm confused

latent forge
#

find best algorithm for a function f(n,p) where n is an integer and p is a number in 1,…,m where m is the number of factors of n. This function is supposed to return the pth factor of n.

leaden torrent
sick burrow
#

isn't that channel all Namington alts?

#

and ryc

light needle
#

intellect is... a strong word

leaden torrent
#

That’s a well-known epistemic thought

sick burrow
#

do you know that?

blazing pawn
stray kite
#

is there anywhere to just like render quick latex images

#

i mean, withotu having to make an entire pdf

#

basically smth which functions like texit bot lol
when you just want to share an image of smth quick with someone

slim meadow
#

But you can also just use the latex bot in dms

stray kite
#

oh

#

i didnt know that

#

oof then ty

zealous berry
#

How do you real with a professor who doesn't care

pale orchid
#

depends on the type of not caring we're talking about

latent forge
#

just dont do anything that activlely harms you, including doing nothing when you don’t understand

zealous berry
#

no way im failing because the professor doesnt care

#

i'll take care of it myself if thats the case

zealous berry
#

he even gets most of his stuff wrong, when someone corrects him he just says yes very good and keeps going with the wrong numbers

#

its comedic

pale orchid
#

arguably the numbers don't matter that much of the concepts are explained well

zealous berry
#

sure, hence why on a test, you may still get points

#

but that doesnt change it, its unorganized and faulty

bronze wren
#

It’s Microsoftoffice-styled

pale orchid
#

might as well do it on overleaf without downloading anything

bronze wren
#

Mathcha is online

pale orchid
#

oh i didn't know that

bronze wren
#

Overleaf is good as well

pale orchid
#

my bad

bronze wren
#

It’s amazing

#

Idk why it’s not popular

hollow spruce
#

Can anyone please help me answer this

image0.jpg
bronze wren
hollow spruce
#

I’m afraid there isn’t, tried everything but just really can’t find the correct answer

bronze wren
#

I’m gonna reverse search it to see if somebody wrote something about it

hollow spruce
#

I actually tried doing that too, but please do so.

stray kite
#

i use matcha for making tikz diagrams

pale orchid
#

how does that work? you move stuff around on a GUI and it generates the tikz?

stray kite
#

yeah

#

p useful and cool

pale orchid
#

nice

stray kite
#

feeding into my never ending aversion to learning tikz

pale orchid
#

for python, there's tikzplotlib that generates tikz script for your plots

stray kite
#

learning to use a library to generate tikz seems about the same amount of effort as learning tikz itself lol

pale orchid
#

it's the same commands as matplotlib

#

so stuff like plot (x_values, y_values)

bronze wren
stray kite
#

ik but my problem isnt tikz itself, its having to l*arn

pale orchid
#

but yeah, it's for people that already know python, so that they don't also need to learn tikz

bronze wren
bronze wren
stray kite
#

not python

#

the lib

bronze wren
#

Oh

pale orchid
#

if learning a lib is your problem, the issue is somewhere else 😛

bronze wren
#

Lol no it’s alright

stray kite
#

see one day i am going to learn tikz

#

its just that

#

today is not that day opencry

leaden skiff
#

learning libraries does suck

#

i really should learn scipy one day

#

but documentation is so ass 😩

bronze wren
#

Library’s that need to be learned are shit library’s

#

Random for example you don’t even learn it you just use it

leaden skiff
#

idk if that's true hmmCat

#

even with random you absolutely need to look up docs

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

you can't just try random words until they work

stray kite
#

good luck using any big/elaborate library without learning it lol

leaden skiff
bronze wren
stray kite
#

not everything is requests

bronze wren
stray kite
#

whenever you use any elaborate library/framework
you cant do much withotu having the documentation pulled up on a tab

leaden skiff
#

well like the python range function, if you were new to python and didn't read the docs you might think range(a,b) is [a,b] when it's actually [a,b)

#

but also with bigger libraries you absolutely need to know how they're implemented or future you will be drowning in bugs

bronze wren
stray kite
#

thats.... what searching documentation is

leaden skiff
#

yeah lmao what did you think we meant?

bronze wren
stray kite
#

its not like you print the reference docs out and read them cover to cover lol

leaden skiff
#

also sometimes the search can be a bit more involved. like using matplotlib animations

#

i do not understand how those work uhhhh

stray kite
#

you see what specifically want to use, look it up in the ref docs, and continue

bronze wren
stray kite
#

i cant understand how those two things are different

#

if youre searching for more obscure libraries you wont be able to find stackoverflow questions on how functions work

leaden skiff
#

i think you should at least skim the description

stray kite
#

there are important things in ref docs

#

like return types

bronze wren
stray kite
#

that you have to read it for

pale orchid
#

python doc is shit, yes

#

and python itself overall

stray kite
#

that is a

#

thonk take

bronze wren
pale orchid
#

that is false

#

c++ and matlab doc are great

bronze wren
pale orchid
#

java as well

leaden skiff
#

matlab is just python but overpriced

stray kite
#

python docs are fine tbh

bronze wren
pale orchid
#

python doc is ass, i stand my ground

stray kite
#

ive never had any problems with it

pale orchid
#

me neither, cuz i don't use the doc

leaden skiff
#

i do just wish there were better sci py tutorials

pale orchid
#

i rely on having learned other programming languages before using python

stray kite
leaden skiff
#

i just wanna know how to make physics sims man sadcat

bronze wren
stray kite
pale orchid
#

you don't need to read how its implemented

leaden skiff
stray kite
#

you.... do

pale orchid
#

cuz anything important in python is not implemented in python

#

it's in C and fortran

stray kite
pale orchid
#

numpy/scipy moment

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

ok at that point i'd just use a real game engine

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

meh i use godot for making games and it's light as shit too

pale orchid
#

been using python and matlab for 4 years straight, for signal processing, optimization, physics, etc, after years of c++ and java

#

they're both bad, but shit, python is terrible

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

bruh really?

#

the way you have to do animations in it seemed cursed

#

so i gave up on it

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

yes

bronze wren
#

I never settled down and used pygame but I think animations aren’t necessarily

#

You can move stills using code

leaden skiff
#

true, i just meant that like those were cursed

#

so i assumed the rest would be too

#

maybe that was a false assumption

#

i'll look into it again

bronze wren
#

Pygame is educational

pale orchid
#

what kind of animations are we talking about

leaden skiff
#

sprite animations

#

like sequences of images

#

most engines let you use spritesheets, in pygame you have to have it in a folder, and what it does is just let you loop through the images in that folder

#

which felt highly cursed to me

pale orchid
#

i have only seen that done in matplotlib (bad and slow) and opencv (fast and nice)

leaden skiff
#

what is opencv?

pale orchid
#

here's one i made in matplotlib

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCV

OpenCV

OpenCV (Open Source Computer Vision Library) is a library of programming functions mainly aimed at real-time computer vision. Originally developed by Intel, it was later supported by Willow Garage then Itseez (which was later acquired by Intel). The library is cross-platform and free for use under the open-source Apache 2 License. Starting with ...

leaden skiff
#

thats just a box

pale orchid
#

keep watching

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

oh that's cool

leaden skiff
#

that's all i want

#

i dont wanna make my own engine for that

#

but also yeah animations aren't neccesary for sims

#

so maybe that wont matter

bronze wren
leaden skiff
#

i was thinking abt using processing

#

but i'd have to learn js

#

and i kinda hate curly braces

pale orchid
#

what exactly do you wanna test

#

like program your own PDEs and stuff?

leaden skiff
#

yeah

#

like

#

i use desmos a lot

#

ive made a few "sims" in desmos

#

but it's not powerful enough

pale orchid
#

instead of a time slider, just make a for loop and use that to make the animation

bronze wren
stray kite
#

node's fine lol

leaden skiff
stray kite
#

is this just mathematician programming opencry

pale orchid
#

the one i put above solves the helmholtz equation for several wave numbers, inverse fourier transforms to time tomain, and then plots the field in the whole space one time step at a time

leaden skiff
bronze wren
pale orchid
#

its just regular stuff

leaden skiff
#

like i wanna do stuff like that

#

but with for loops and other programming conveniences

pale orchid
#

oh you wanna make a GUI

leaden skiff
#

and recursion

bronze wren
#

It’s bad

#

Js

leaden skiff
#

yes preferably something interactive

pale orchid
#

that makes everything worse and more difficult 😛

#

but anyway

#

openCV lets you make GUIs too

#

but i'd say just stick to desmos for that

bronze wren
pale orchid
#

there's no out of the box stuff for something that specific, afaik

leaden skiff
#

it cant handle numerical solutions to things

#

and again i have to hack a lot of things to make it look nice

#

maybe i should try a game engine

pale orchid
#

that sort of stuff doesn't bring a nice GUI tho

#

the problem is that you have to code that yourself

#

so there you're left to pick your poison

leaden skiff
#

i'd have to implement one myself yeah, i don't mind i guess

pale orchid
#

it takes longer than the actual problem 😛

leaden skiff
#

godot is known for having a super easy to set up UI

#

so maybe i'll just try that

bronze wren
#

For the past 2 years I was fine with python and c++ but suddenly I wanted to learn html, css, c# at the same time

turbid barn
#

did you try matplotlib?

leaden skiff
#

no but i cant find good tutorials

pale orchid
#

matplotlib is kinda bad

leaden skiff
#

like i wanna make sims and animations

pale orchid
#

i do recommend opencv instead

leaden skiff
#

got any good tutorials?

pale orchid
#

nope, just the documentation

#

(the matplotlib doc is terrible. whenever you google stuff, you'll find conflicting ways of doing the same thing, and they're very version-dependent)

leaden skiff
#

opencv is for python right?

bronze wren
pale orchid
#

it's available for python too

bronze wren
stray kite
#

do people commonly do research in their second year?

#

of a bachelors course

devout nacelle
#

stare I don't think so

stray kite
#

is it possible to

devout nacelle
#

More like I wouldn't want to think so KEK

devout nacelle
surreal sapphire
#

just start your degree in your -5th year

devout nacelle
#

What are the things that undergrads intending to get into research eventually should learn, apart from the subject itself?

crystal stone
#

That it's ok to not know everything

#

And it's ok to trip over small things

devout nacelle
crystal stone
#

Yeah, I take more breaks from mathematics than I used to

#

There was a period of like 5-6 years where all I did was math all the time

jovial ember
crystal stone
#

Now I take frequent weeks off from doing any math

jovial ember
crystal stone
#

(Other than my day to day job)

velvet dagger
#

Why take a break when you can simply spend all your time either doing math or feeling guilty that you're not doing math?

devout nacelle
velvet dagger
#

That way your unproductive time is not pleasant/relaxing

crystal stone
#

I think the second it becomes grindy and I stop getting interested in the problem

jovial ember
#

Punish yourself for not being a robot

crystal stone
#

and just want to rush to the solution

#

I take at least a week off

#

to reset me brain

#

I mean I'm just going through complex analysis right now

#

So it's not like I'm doing research or anything, just trying to prepare for quals

velvet dagger
#

Imagine having to take a complex analysis qual

crystal stone
#

I mean I don't have to, I can just stick to math education

jovial ember
#

You are the biggest Marshall simp I’ve ever met

crystal stone
#

It's SO GOOD

jovial ember
#

And it’s funny since you aren’t even like a UW student who used it hahhh

crystal stone
#

I mean I learned from Garnett

#

So go figure

velvet dagger
#

Marshall is discount Schlag smh

jovial ember
#

I used uh

#

Originally I used the one with the “proof by magic”

#

Prime number Theorem proof

#

I used that freshman year

velvet dagger
#

Fight me

crystal stone
#

I'm writing my apps for Math Ed PhD right now

jovial ember
#

Our honors analysis does 2 qtrs of Reals then complex

crystal stone
#

and I'm at a loss of what I can write

#

For my statement of purpose: "Yeah I'm applying so I can shoe-horn my way into the math department, so if you let me in the chances I stay in the program are pretty low"

velvet dagger
#

Usually math Ed PhD means like

#

K-12

#

Right?

crystal stone
#

That's the most common area, but if I actually pursued it

#

I would want to study Higher Ed programs

jovial ember
#

Study the best way to run an honors freshman analysis course

crystal stone
#

There's some people that do this at Berkeley, Stanford, and UT Austin

jovial ember
#

Then implement them across the US

velvet dagger
#

Well I almost was wondering if your desire to do higher ed would kinda be a thing to emphasize on sop

crystal stone
jovial ember
#

Imagine if after all your researxh

crystal stone
#

An honors curriculum for undergrad math, and running successful REUs

jovial ember
#

You just reinvent math 55

#

Lol

velvet dagger
#

To sorta differentiate yourself from the competition

#

Lmao I do not think Moonbears would like my style of an honors analysis class lol

jovial ember
#

No

#

They’ve expressed this before

#

Lol

crystal stone
#

I think I wouldn't like the way I run mine either

velvet dagger
#

Well there's "how my class ran" and "how I would run one"

crystal stone
#

But like there's lots of honors math programs at different schools, and they are more or less the same

velvet dagger
#

Already objected to the former but with high probability will also object to the latter

crystal stone
#

I'm really intrigued by how the fuck a community college can run it, without it being a shit storm

#

And then I work for an actual university and they can't even get seniors to do proofs without students freaking out

jovial ember
#

Thesis statement:

Students are bad they should get good

crystal stone
#

Yeah ~ well that's what I'm applying for anyways

velvet dagger
#

Not wrong

crystal stone
#

I'm really reaching for schools I don't think I have a chance in hell at getting in for math ed

#

Stanford, Berkeley, and Austin

#

UCLA doesn't even have people in math ed anymore

velvet dagger
#

You guys wanna get in voice soon actually? Like in 5 min?

jovial ember
#

No

crystal stone
#

I'm at work bruh

jovial ember
#

Who wants to hear Dami talk

crystal stone
#

The tutor I'm managing is asleep

#

Nobody is coming in for help right now

jovial ember
#

Lmfao

velvet dagger
#

Lol rip

#

But yeah so one of the more like

#

Idk radical ideas I've got

jovial ember
#

Uh oh

#

Any Dami original idea is gonna be a Hurb

velvet dagger
#

The math major should have a quarter/semester in the student's career

#

Where they do just one math class but high intensity

#

And it counts for multiple classes

crystal stone
#

like 12 units for one class

velvet dagger
#

Yeah smth like that

#

But you have homework daily and 2-3 times the lectures of one class

crystal stone
#

I don't think this would work, but go on

deep mango
jovial ember
#

They should make you take a test where if you can’t properly invert a statement or take the contrapositive of a statement you fail and get kicked into engineering

deep mango
#

daminark rediscovers harvie math 55

crystal stone
#

Didn't wadzicki give like 5 hours lectures

velvet dagger
#

I mean so

deep mango
#

yeah but they were all incoherent so it doesn't count

velvet dagger
#

I took honors analysis at Chicago which was basically math 55 but it wasn't quite that

jovial ember
#

Who tf is wadzicki

#

And why

velvet dagger
#

You still had just 3 hours of lectures per week

#

Just that the psets/out of class commitments were 35 hours/week lmao

#

But I'm thinking like

crystal stone
#

I think that's exactly what math 55 is

velvet dagger
#

Summer after first year

#

I was in my school's "apprentice REU"

crystal stone
#

Did you have something like that?

velvet dagger
#

And it was a 5 week class on linear algebra and graph theory

#

9:30-12 every day

#

Daily psets

crystal stone
#

Did you git gud there

velvet dagger
#

Exactly

crystal stone
#

I took linear algebra & differential equations, we had lectures 4 days a week for 2.5 hours

velvet dagger
#

That was probably one of my most important mathematical experiences period

#

Because I just took one class

deep mango
#

who tf is wadzicki

velvet dagger
#

And devoted 100% to that class

#

When I took honors analysis I was still juggling 2-3 other classes

#

And the lectures were just 3 hours/week

crystal stone
#

I think this can work for like a summer math bootcamp

#

Or something

velvet dagger
#

So obv while I learned a ton it's not quite the same thing as having just one class

crystal stone
#

But in the semester this is not really ideal

velvet dagger
#

Yeah I'm not sure how feasible this is in practice but I think it's straight up the best way to learn

slim meadow
#

I helped teach that apprentice course last summer

velvet dagger
#

Nice

crystal stone
#

RIP

velvet dagger
#

Rudenko probably did it kinda differently than Laci used to

#

@crystal stone actually I think molecular engineering at Chicago has everyone do a quarter like that

#

You have 3 classes and it pretty much consumes your entire quarter by itself

#

But the 3 classes kinda work together in a way

crystal stone
#

Yeah that stuff can work

velvet dagger
#

I say during the year ideally because summer is optional/a student might have other commitments preventing them from something like that

crystal stone
#

I mean if you set up like a program where that's students life for like a year

jovial ember
#

Yeah Dami I don’t agree this should be required

crystal stone
#

That could work out

jovial ember
#

I can get behind it if

#

It’s offered as a different degree path

velvet dagger
#

Maybe that's the honors program lol

jovial ember
#

What’s good for us is not good for like 90% of ppl getting math degrees

crystal stone
#

That's exactly what an honors program is

jovial ember
#

Yeah

crystal stone
#

Except it's not just one class, it's spread out

#

But I heard math 55 at Harvard is just ridiculous

velvet dagger
#

Well I'm saying within the honors program have something like that

crystal stone
#

I think the goal should be to help people pass and git gud

#

Not baptism by fire

#

But I can see how it can be beneficial

velvet dagger
#

I'm fine with honors being more baptism by fire

jovial ember
#

I feel like 1 qtr of it

velvet dagger
#

Like if it's too much we communicate that like

crystal stone
#

I mean to some extent it has to be

velvet dagger
#

Hey guess what, literally zero shame in not doing honors

#

In fact we consider that the default path

crystal stone
#

I think there'd have to be some sort of caveat that if you do what you're supposed to in the program

velvet dagger
#

But if you're gonna do honors

crystal stone
#

You get good feedback on things, but the grading is very generous

#

At the end

#

During the course you don't tell them that

jovial ember
#

I w thought about that

velvet dagger
#

You either rise to the occasion or you get oof'd

jovial ember
#

I think the ideal class would have requirements to do he and shit

#

Then at the end everyone gets a good grade

#

But ppl talk and if it becomes known your clsss doesn’t actually grade hard like it says

velvet dagger
#

Hmm, so what I'd say is there should be a clean mechanism for someone to go from honors to not honors kinda toward the end of the class

jovial ember
#

Then you lose the effect of pretending your hw is mega required

velvet dagger
#

Like for instance

crystal stone
#

Yeah, the clean mechanism is that they don't do what they're supposed to

velvet dagger
#

If you get through the honors class but you're performing at a non-honors level

crystal stone
#

That could include like revisions on problem sets

velvet dagger
#

You can give them what they would have gotten in the non-honors class

#

And then retroactively count the class as not honors

#

If that makes sense

crystal stone
#

If you make the class have assignments

#

Naturally there will be students that don't do them

velvet dagger
#

That way the standards for honors are still higher

#

But you don't punish students' ambition

crystal stone
#

They'll sort themselves by effort

velvet dagger
#

You know what I mean?

crystal stone
#

Yeah, you want to incentivize risk taking

#

and new ways of problem solving

#

Even if it doesn't pan out or isn't 100% rigorous

velvet dagger
#

Well I mean risk taking in the sense of like

crystal stone
#

It's more subjective

velvet dagger
#

You don't risk a C by taking an honors class

#

But at the same time you don't get an A in an honors class if you're not an A honors student

#

So I think the strat is having one section of the class be the honors section

#

But to actually have the "honors" designation show up the need to perform at level X or higher

#

So for instance

crystal stone
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For my MS to graduate with distinction you need an A on both comprehensive exams

velvet dagger
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If honors grading puts you at a C and regular at a B

#

Then even if you attended the honors section

crystal stone
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You can make a similar stipulation

velvet dagger
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We won't write honors on your transcript

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And we'll just give you a B

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Or maybe even give you the choice who knows

crystal stone
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But yeah, these are the things I'd like to explore

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if I did a Math Ed degree

velvet dagger
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Obv even this isn't realistic since you'd basically need special permission from the university to have the department be able to change your course number after the final exam lol

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And we know how university admin are

crystal stone
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Oh yeah it's a nightmare

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We were voting on just getting new courses approved here in the math department

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The arguments were so dumb

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Even the tiniest thing

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People threw a fit over

velvet dagger
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But like in principle this would be the correct strat. You can be swapped after the final exam to the non-honors class

velvet dagger
crystal stone
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Is this co-requisite a 6 unit one courses

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or are they two separate courses

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If they are two separate courses should it be 3 and 3

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or 2 and 4

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How do we denote it on the transcript

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What if they pass one section but not the other

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What if they pass the college algebra section but not the remedial section

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Do they have to re-take the remedial section? That isn't technically college credit, and it doesn't count towards their GPA but university policy is BLANK

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How are we going to have enough lecture hours for 6 units? The timing doesn't work out with other classes

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It's a freakin' nightmare sitting through meetings like that

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But it's good experience

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I'm like a proto-faculty member

velvet dagger
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Jesus Christ

atomic cypress
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I don't want to demark honors and non-honors students. The concept of elite is stupid.

Just have classes ranging from practical to high theory.

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People will fall where they'll fall.

jovial ember
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It’s there to provide different tracks for people with different skills

atomic cypress
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That's what different classes are for

ashen river
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My biggest regret is not taking Honors linalg

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It was proof based

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I took a stupid version

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Lol

river linden
velvet dagger
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Tbh probably

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@atomic cypress the difference between taking practical vs theory isn't really about skill in my mind

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So much as what you want to learn

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If someone cares about using math, even if they're smarter than every math major, you're still inclined to take the practical class since it meets your needs better

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The point of honors vs not honors is that you have two people who both want to learn theory

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But it turns out one of them can learn faster than the other and benefits from doing so

crystal stone
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So It's like that same conversation 3 times

neat lintel
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Can you guys help me with this

crystal stone
neat lintel
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Oh

atomic cypress
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the difference between taking practical vs theory isn't really about skill in my mind

I basically agree modulo a few things, my point is that the honors/non-honors distinction is dumb

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(in many cases practical courses are unquestionably easier even if they do teach other things)

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(doesn't mean applied people can't do important or hard things)

tawny spoke
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Applied people have long careers and pure people have their pride

latent forge
swift steeple
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what is honors?