lol
#serious-discussion
light needle
wild lantern
I need gen eds because taking too much math at once is scary.
sly thistle
You almost certainly remember history from highschool
latent forge
barely
sly thistle
You just don’t remember learning it
slim meadow
I mean, slavery isn't the only societal thing that you need to know lmao, and gen eds help you become more aware of such issues
wild lantern
I am too dumb to survive if I take all hard math courses.
latent forge
i know about slavery from father and immigration from my mother
light needle
I do think schools should force it, like i wouldnt take gen eds if i didnt have to. not bc i dont like learning about stuff but bc limited time to many other things to learn
latent forge
and also how she became refugee
light needle
but also make sure they have good gen eds ig lol
wild lantern
The quality thing seems like a hard problem to solve.
latent forge
I mean, slavery isn't the only societal thing that you need to know lmao, and ge...
also i cant care about every societal issue and dont plan to in my career
slim meadow
astral marsh
i mean the point being argued here is whether the idea of gen eds in general is good or not, i.e. would it really be a good idea to just not have any gen eds?
latent forge
i am somewhat aware globally but to take multiple class on everything that has impacted anyone is just silly
astral marsh
there are issues with the implementation and such but fundamentally, do you think having no gen eds would be a good idea
latent forge
im here for math not humanities
sly thistle
“Yeah my uncle worked on this specific thing”
“My cousin he was president of the US so Ik about that”
“Yeah my nephew hes an astronaut, but did you know my son is a doctor!”
latent forge
I feel like you Are like the dude from slum dog millionaire
no my mom from uganda and she got kicked out because tyranny
wild lantern
i am somewhat aware globally but to take multiple class on everything that has i...
Ideally gen eds shouldn't be like this.
latent forge
wait hold the fucking phone
wild lantern
I get that your school is like that from your perspective.
sly thistle
Let me guess
latent forge
gen eds dont require me to learn about social problems
sly thistle
You have a cousin who actually is an astronaut?
latent forge
they require much less
light needle
thats just sad kek
neat lintel
I think gen eds can be good
latent forge
thats hseful
light needle
ok russian playwrites is wierd kek
wild lantern
I'm talking about the scope. Like the goal of gen eds is for a bit of breadth, not studying everything under the sun.
neat lintel
gen eds dont require me to learn about social problems
I think a good gen Ed could be about social problems
latent forge
why did u choose it.
to optimize credits
light needle
thats the problem lol
latent forge
if i dont optimize credits i will lose s possible math class
light needle
you cannot pick classes uninteresting to u on purpose and then be surprised its uninteresting.
latent forge
ofc not
light needle
i kinda get it
wild lantern
Choose cooler things 😎
latent forge
but i cant pick something cool and then need to take 3 more cool classes and miss out on 3 possible math classes
light needle
but honestly this is why i save the geneds (the few i have to do) till a good semester
or smth
neat lintel
Can't you anyway not attend lecture?
latent forge
havent done jt get
slim meadow
Didn't you agree with me earlier when I said that forcing people to take gen eds doesn't restrict the number of math classes they can take?
latent forge
Can't you anyway not attend lecture?
no they require attendence
latent forge
Didn't you agree with me earlier when I said that forcing people to take gen eds...
it does for my school
neat lintel
Didn't you agree with me earlier when I said that forcing people to take gen eds...
But I think it does
latent forge
since math majors take the most gen eds
slim meadow
so why did you agree with me earlier lmao
latent forge
other majors get more gen ed credit
i agree because it shouldnt have to
at other schools it isnt like that
slim meadow
its like this at most schools
slim meadow
also its weird to say other majors get more gen ed credit. Like do chemists get more gen ed credit through their one required chem class?
latent forge
freshman year i only took 1 math class per sem
latent forge
also its weird to say other majors get more gen ed credit. Like do chemists get ...
yea
they get more gen eds than math majors unirionically
like 6 more
latent forge
my school gen ed system is fucked
light needle
like they get more credit for the same class? that makes no sense
latent forge
no for their required classes
slim meadow
Freshman year I also only took 1 math class per sem?
astral marsh
they get more gen eds than math majors unirionically
they are required to take 6 more gen eds than you?
slim meadow
I think thats pretty standard
latent forge
that aint right
latent forge
they are required to take 6 more gen eds than you?
no their year two sequence gives 3 distinct gen ed credits
neat lintel
Freshman year I also only took 1 math class per sem?
Sounds like you were falling behind already from freshman year
wild lantern
Isn't math sort of overrepresented most places. Most places require you to do (or have done) at least a couple math classes regardless of your program.
latent forge
meanwhile only math history,logic,discrete math give one distinct gen ed credit
latent forge
Isn't math sort of overrepresented most places. Most places require you to do (o...
wtf no
wild lantern
Whereas almost no schools have an astronomy gen ed requirement.
latent forge
one math class isn’t over represented
usually non stem only takes calc 1
which isnt shit compared to amount of english classes id take
i can switch up and not only do english, but its to optimize credits
vast surge
My school requires one math (or math-like course), one science, one art, one ethics, one class on different cultures and there's one other that I forget that I kind of accidentally fulfilled
light needle
ok nine just stop optimizing credit and u'll probably me much happier
like miss one math class each sem or w/e
latent forge
lol its not like that
vast surge
But the science can be filled by anything, there are literally philosophy classes that fulfil the math requirement, etc.
latent forge
agriculture classes give all the same credits and i have them already
wild lantern
My point is: What places require every student to take at least one psychology course (or some other random thing)?
latent forge
if i were to take any i wouldnt progress in my graduation
latent forge
My point is: What places require every student to take at least one psychology c...
its pretty much required by gen ed
its either psychology/anthropology/humanities x
wild lantern
Almost every degree program where I'm at has a math req, but I've never heard of a degree program outside of agriculture itself having an agriculture requirment.
neat lintel
What do you even study in an agriculture degree?
latent forge
lots of things
neat lintel
Is that even a degree?
latent forge
ya
wild lantern
Yah
latent forge
you take bio and chemistry
then there are some agriculture specific classes after second year
neat lintel
Ah, I thought you go to farms and stuff
wild lantern
Farming-theory? Lol
latent forge
lol nah
wild lantern
Dang.
vast surge
Also surprisingly many schools have agriculture classes.
latent forge
102 44 4872
latent forge
Also surprisingly many schools have agriculture classes.
somewhat
wild lantern
I know a hs I almost went to was known for agriculture classes.
wild lantern
Yes, this hs was in a more rural area so it made sense.
latent forge
o lol
latent forge
nah im chillin
gen ed talk has me worn
i just have passionate disdain because i find arguments silly
like why tf colleges dont teach you how to cook different foods/do taxes/local politics and infrastructure if they want you to be well rounded
or homerepair snd handy skills
thats well rounded
not psychology 101 or anthropology about chimp speech
wild lantern
Political science classes can focus on local politics at least to within your specific state.
Also culinary programs exist. Idk about at universities but the cc's near me def have those sorts of classes.
devout nacelle
Farming-theory? Lol
More like Field Theory 
wild lantern
I can't believe I didn't see that.
latent forge
Political science classes can focus on local politics at least to within your sp...
my point
i wouldnt mind that
but there is no way in hell psychology is making me more well rounded
wild lantern
latent forge
tell me a fact you learned from psychology class that you didnt know and is useful to you
im waiting
wild lantern
I didn't take psych so i cannot do that lol
latent forge
idk my opinion is that its silly that we need a sexond round of gen ed
when thats what HS is for
and all of our previous learning
no reason college is needed to make someone well rounded
if anything it implies those who dont go arent well rounded
which is a dammed lie
latent forge
math and agriculture and linguistics sprinkled with some computer science and two social commentsry classes
As a math major I need to take 14 math classes to graduate at minimums
That isnt a lot
But I need 128 credits in total
and 14 classes is 56 credits
My general education needs 16 classes in total including maximizing all gen ed granted from math classes giving gen ed
light needle
seems normal.
latent forge
If I had done business I could not do gen ed
Im not required to since the business curriculums gives gen ed classes
So math and business avoids gen ed but for 2 extra classes
Are business majors more well rounded than people who do math without gen ed?
wild lantern
Idk, I feel like we should avoid confusing whether gen eds have value in general for how your specific intution does things.
Since they're different issues.
latent forge
I agree
But my strongest argument against gen eds is that I finished highschool
and I still need to work while in college
wild lantern
I don't find that to be a compelling argument.
latent forge
So id rather have time to myself to learn and hangout doing what I want than take 1,2 gen ed per semester
latent forge
I don't find that to be a compelling argument.
Higschool doesn’t make people well rounded?
Then whats the point
wild lantern
Higschool doesn’t make people well rounded?
Not what I said.
I think hs encompasses more basic skills than breadth is all.
latent forge
Such as?
wild lantern
English, math, history etc at a fairly basic level.
I see hs more as giving the lowest common denominator of skills we want new adults to enter the world with.
It's not that they don't or shouldn't give students a broad education.
Just that that is not all they exist for.
latent forge
maybe im malding
latent forge
I see hs more as giving the lowest common denominator of skills we want new adul...
I dont see it living up to that purpose but if it did it should be all skills adult need. College should be seen as optional specialization for certain careers not a necessity
Schooling past 18 for non specialization is cruel
wild lantern
Yah I agree that HS could be designed to better serve the purpose of giving students the basic skills they need.
For the college thing you mentioned I think it's a matter of extent of specialization.
latent forge
For the college thing you mentioned I think it's a matter of extent of specializ...
elaborate
wild lantern
Well first of all college isn't the only way to specialize in some niche job or field of study. Trade schools like I mentioned earlier provide a much narrower focus on whatever trade they're for. Granted stuff like math is not taught in a trade school setting.
latent forge
funnily enough neither is agriculture
and the only way for me to get into it is college
wild lantern
Also I think learning things outside of ones specialty does more good than harm in a general sense.
But if you spend all your time learning something else besides whatever you intend to learn clearly you are doing something counterproductive.
So the issue is "how much other things should I study outside my specialty?" Rather than "should I study other things outside my specialty?"
latent forge
Writing 3k word essays on russian playwrights and historic muslims is counterproductive
Also how much is the question yes
I think education outside of career is important
But its not college job to enforce it
vivid halo
I think it's a college's job to enforce this
latent forge
Because
wild lantern
But its not college job to enforce it
I think the people writing degree programs disagree with that.
wild lantern
Not only money lol
vivid halo
like the purpose of college is more than just producing citizens with skills that are specific to their career trajectory
latent forge
like the purpose of college is more than just producing citizens with skills tha...
what else
velvet dagger
In practice a lot of gened requirements are done because depts receive funding from teaching
latent forge
yea
velvet dagger
So they are incentivized to do something
latent forge
thats what my russian playwright teacher told me
vivid halo
I mean it's to produce citizens with well-rounded skills, most of which actually aid career-specific skills
latent forge
I mean it's to produce citizens with well-rounded skills, most of which actually...
and highschool purpose is to?
do nothing i guess
velvet dagger
I think if a gened requirement is of the form "Please take literally something in this department"
vivid halo
velvet dagger
Then it may have been informed by funding
vivid halo
for instance I think it's extremely valuable for people in the hard sciences to take a few courses in ethics and sociology
latent forge
sure i can agree
velvet dagger
But in principle high school is about producing minimally acceptable citizens
latent forge
a few means 1 each
latent forge
But in principle high school is about producing minimally acceptable citizens
Well something is clearly wrong with that
vivid halo
I mean sure but this is the argument for gened
these things pile up even if they are each one course
add in writing courses, add in history courses, etc
velvet dagger
My current idea is that high school, if done right, should be about producing people who can function in society, and who will be sufficiently well-informed voters
wild lantern
Well something is clearly wrong with that
You mean wrong as far as implementation and not that that goal is wrong right?
velvet dagger
Required schooling shouldn't involve too much more than that. Like why are you subjecting people to that which isn't necessary, and using resources in the process
wild lantern
Gotcha gotcha.
latent forge
Required schooling shouldn't involve too much more than that. Like why are you s...
funding and giving ppl jobs
velvet dagger
I mean there should be many opportunities to do so
latent forge
all reasons to make tuitions more expensive than already is
velvet dagger
But I don't think you should be required to engage in schooling
latent forge
I agree
velvet dagger
Far beyond the gcd
But then if high school is about producing students who are "good enough"
College is about producing students who excel
latent forge
why produce students
that should end once they gradu
they should just be citizens
velvet dagger
I mean you get the underlying point
latent forge
sure
velvet dagger
I'm phrasing it using the first word that comes to mind lol
But yeah I think each college should have a clear idea of its mission
latent forge
but i dont think gen ed helps me excel, id be lying if i said it didnt help my math prose tho
forest jackal
college is about producing suitably educated hoomans to provide menial assistance to felines.
velvet dagger
but i dont think gen ed helps me excel, id be lying if i said it didnt help my m...
The second half of that sentence literally has a role in my point
vivid halo
but i dont think gen ed helps me excel, id be lying if i said it didnt help my m...
I think it's kinda hard to prove the counterfactual here is the thing
velvet dagger
I'll say a lot of stuff is implemented very poorlu
vivid halo
like part of me is inclined to say "oh these classes didn't help me" but in all likelihood I'd probably be a lot worse off without them
mild nebula
I think high school is about ability to raise the class of some hard-working people, regardless of their wealth.
I think it fails
So maybe it isn't about that idunno
vivid halo
I don't think this is the main purpose
latent forge
Everyone has mentioned its theoretic purpose
vivid halo
for a lot of public high schools the main goal is to prepare the bulk of the students to not be like, complete fuck ups
latent forge
Practical purpose is to keep kids off the street
vivid halo
yea
latent forge
I guess my main gripe is how poorly implemented it is as sloth said
velvet dagger
Yeah lol
latent forge
I would love to learn math and agriculture but i cant because gen ed
velvet dagger
Like I think each college should have a very clear... "Mission statement" if that makes sense
Which should largely inform what it does
latent forge
yea thats the thing lol
i go to research institution not liberal arts
so idk why i gotta take so many gen ed
its probably not normal in my situation
that i take more gen ed than math
wild lantern
I would love to learn math and agriculture but i cant because gen ed
I guess you could double major but money and time would be an issue.
latent forge
I cant double major
wild lantern
You can always self study too ofc.
latent forge
not possible
wild lantern
Why not?
wild lantern
Gotcha gotcha.
latent forge
the thing with agriculture is that im soft locked since i wasnt born into it
so unless i get credentials somehow im sorta fucked
so thats why im giving up on farm mangement dream
tbh math might have been mistake
seeing how competitive everything is as evidenced by people in this server, im not sure i got what it takes. this would be a non issue if i was studying agriculture
because you dont need grad school to do farm mangement jobs u only need BA or born into it
velvet dagger
@latent forge so I think a college is different from a university
latent forge
oh rip im going to a uni
velvet dagger
Like a university might have multiple "schools"/"colleges" within
And the dynamic can be a bit different
For example
You might have a liberal arts college
With no graduate program
And the point of the entire institution is that it's making a statement about what it means to be a truly well-educated person and citizen, and graduating such folk
You might have an institution whose entire focus is research, and any undergraduate training it has is effectively a research bootcamp
You might have a public university whose overarching goal is to help meet the educational and research needs of its state
And at the undergrad level it might be divided
Perhaps it has a "School of Engineering", and the internal goal of that is to produce engineers
So it's only gonna put requirements to graduate which are in service of that goal. Maybe they'll have you become very proficient in technical writing
But literary analysis wouldn't make sense
Maybe the college of arts and science is basically a liberal arts college within the university
And it will have more strict/broad gened requirements. It's just "Contributing to a well-educated populace"
Etc etc
latent forge
You see you are completely correct. Math is in the arts and science college, but all arts and science is required gen ed which I guess makes sense. But the fact that math has to do more than other majors in hard sciences is silly to me
velvet dagger
That's what I meant about college vs university. You can be a research university, but your college is a liberal arts college. UChicago is an example of that.
latent forge
Its not just my feelings becsuse me and a couple of friends verified with a bot that math majors need 3-4 more gen ed classes than everyone else
which is simply fucked imo
velvet dagger
@latent forge I mean yeah I'm talking about what's optimal and saying that geneds in general as a concept makes sense in this optimal setting
Your school admin might be a bunch of smooth brains for all I know
latent forge
Ok well then yes I agree
latent forge
Your school admin might be a bunch of smooth brains for all I know
oh boy yes they are
I didnt get any critical thinking credits until I took a bio class
And I had taken diffeq at that time
analog salmon
all the engineering majors at my university slightly differ in the number of credits needed to take
CS is 123 credits, electrical engineering is like 130-132
latent forge
yea my school is like that for business and math
business and math need 138-140 credits
math only needs 128 and same with business
business and math is doable because the school lets you overload to take more business classes
but math and agriculture doesnt allow for that and the dual degree is 44 classes
so its not really possible
analog salmon
oh wow
you have to get 30 more credits than you primary major to get two diplomas
so 153 in my case
but since I transfered with like 24, it's not too much of a stretch
latent forge
Holy moly
analog salmon
but again, I came with 24 credits from high school, so I only need like 126
latent forge
big win
latent forge
My school only allows five classes for overloading regularly
Only special programs like business and math can get 6
I might have been able to do agriculture and math but im not sure if I could overload to 6
Also i wouldnt be able to handle 6 classes and work lol
esp since agriculture is chem and bio labs for first two semesters
latent forge
I could never major in anything involving bio
lol why
analog salmon
too messy and impure
latent forge
amen
i really hate agriculture at my school though only because you need genetics and ecology classes and other schools dont require it
but i dont mind those classes
its just that it adds on to workloads
velvet dagger
Lol my college core had some good aspects but some less good
latent forge
good how
velvet dagger
Hmm so
I don't think it had a very clear idea of what it was doing
But it was getting at something
latent forge
somethin de3p?
velvet dagger
I mean not deep just like. There's an idea and I think a good one but it just wasn't hashed out
Namely
I think the bio requirement was very poorly done
velvet dagger
Because it's a "Take something please"
latent forge
im sure ppl mad about that though
velvet dagger
2 quarters of bio yeah
latent forge
id like that but i can see people hating that
velvet dagger
You did either core bio + a topics
latent forge
and as admin wouldnt let it pass
velvet dagger
Well that was like, if you were into math/CS and wanted that angle on things
latent forge
oh ok
velvet dagger
The rule was you either do a sequence like modeling 1-2, or you do core bio + a topics class
latent forge
id like that honestly
id rather have that then arbitrary science and social gen eds credits
velvet dagger
My problem with that is
Hmm
I guess it doesn't feel like there's any real internal logic
latent forge
Like why should you have to take bio as opposed to some arbitrary science
Like astronomy or soil science
I mean I do see that as inherently faulty then
In my case I like bio so I would have no problem with it
Problem with bio in my school is how weed out it is
The structure of class isnt intended for you to learn bio well but memorize a large amount of information with only tests and lab reports determining your grades. No homeworks whatsoever
Its really intended for med students
velvet dagger
Well so
I am fine with a dedicated bio requirement... But I think it should be serving some goal
latent forge
And when I took bio I hated it because a lot of time was spent quickly jumping from topic to topic getting a general education of different topics. This is far from how math classes is structured where you learn about specific theories in that class. Luckily I got past AP bio and only needed second semester bio so didnt need to take two semesters
latent forge
what does mit do
velvet dagger
I think their theme is to produce high quality scientists
latent forge
You dont think your school does that by its bio requirement but MIT does because…?
latent forge
oh ok i get your point better
velvet dagger
It seems like everything they require at MIT is in service of some goal of producing high quality scientists
Like yeah we want people to be well-rounded in general, scientists shouldn't be in a bubble
Hence they have you take humanities/arts/social science classes, but it's kinda general I think. Take something
latent forge
All in all I dont think the general ed classes are completely useless, but I think I would turn out the same for the most part without em
w/e impaxt they have on me wouldnt be drastic enough to justify their existence
velvet dagger
Chicago's core humanities is much more specific
latent forge
esp as someone who has defined interests going into school
velvet dagger
It was like
Take one of these n full year sequences
And they don't fully fit into one department or another
velvet dagger
It's vaguely philosophy/ethics
But we also learned about religious angles on what it means to be a good person
latent forge
were u raised religious
velvet dagger
Eg in Genesis they don't really have the conception of God as being good™️ and you obey him because that's what's right
You obey God because he's very powerful and he'll fuck up your shit if you don't
Later we read St. Augustine and it's different
latent forge
i only remember his ontological arguments
velvet dagger
Greek ideas of heroism in the Iliad are also different. Aristotle Nicomachean ethics was about being virtuous, Kant's groundwork was about the categorical imperative
Etc etc
So like it's not oh intro to philosophy 101
But it's a class with an aim. Explore the western canon and understand various angles on what it means to be a good person and good citizen
Anyway I gotta go but, yeah the other options for the core humanities class there don't all have the same theme but to me this one was like, what a core/Great Books class should be
latent forge
my school has more options but because if this i cant continue a class sequence and get all the gen eds also good night same here i sleep
bold fable
Tell me about any Book or any video on number theory ......where I learn easily .........
sharp mulch
bronze pelican
Hey, If i'm writing a paper with figures stolen from someone's website, how do I cite that properly?
vast surge
Use plagiarism
vivid halo
I mean you cite it like you would any website
blazing pawn
vivid halo
Depending on what bibliography format you use the details are a bit different but you generally provide the author, page name, url, and most importantly date of access
Alternatively just make your own diagrams
vast surge
Or do plagiarism. Steal it, without citation.
bronze pelican
Depending on what bibliography format you use the details are a bit different bu...
Do i mention in the caption of the figure that its taken from [2] and then have [2] listed in the bibliography as a citation to the website?
vivid halo
Yes
bronze pelican
vivid halo
But also the diagrams I saw when you were talking about today should be simple enough to do in tikzpicture
vast surge
\begin{tikzpicture}
\node at (0,0) {(use a package that lets you upload png files here)};
\end{tikzpicture}
vivid halo
Or at least you can like, produce them in tikzpicture without too much difficulty
Putting bitmap images in a pdf is kinda frowned upon
Like
\begin{tikzpicture}
\foreach \i in {0,...,4} \draw[fill,thick,rotate={\i * 72 + 90}] (0.5,0) circle (2pt) -- (-2.265,0.9) circle (2pt) -- (2.8,0) circle (2pt) -- (72:2.8);
\end{tikzpicture}
fathom swallowBOT
nGroupoid
vivid halo
I produced this from an existing image
Most of the work in creating complicated pictures like this is knowing the coordinates of the control points. If you have an existing image you can find approximate coordinates very very easily
ancient flame
gg
supple merlin
very satisfying
leaden torrent
@astral marsh for another example of what i mean like
latent forge
m
astral marsh
leaden torrent
The third planet is sure that they're being watched
By an eye in the sky that can't be stopped
When you get to the promised land
You're gonna shake the eye's handYour heart felt good
It was drippin' pitch and made of wood
And your hands and knees
Felt cold and wet on the grass beneath
Well, outside, naked, shivering, looking blue
From the cold sunlight that's reflecting off the moon
Baby cum angels, fly around you
Reminding you we used to be three and not just two
And that's how the world began
And that's how the world will end
latent forge
Listening to clips of that song makes me realize our music tastes are vastly different
leaden torrent
excerpt from modest mouse's third planet
again, super duper pretentious
but like
at least its actually saying something
(though somehow like 5% of people who listen to it think its actually about abortion)
(not sure how they got that one)
(its pretty clearly about miscarriage)
(at least IMO)
leaden torrent
the song is about how a miscarriage ruined their relationship
the idea is that things were developing really well, they were clicking, ready to start a family, etc.
but when the miscarriage happened, it became impossible for them to spend time with each other without being reminded of their shared grief
latent forge
mm ok ill take it
leaden torrent
Well, a third had just been made
And we were swimming in the water
Didn't know then; was it a son, was it a daughter
And it occurred to me that the animals are swimming
Around in the water in the oceans in our bodies
And another had been found, another ocean on the planet
Given that our blood is just like the Atlantic, and how
the song if you care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsnELWjsCsA
leaden torrent
its not the most approachable modest mouse song, thats for sure lmao
lyrically or musically
float on is probably more... familiar
latent forge
i dint think im lyrically connected since i listen to japanese music for starters
leaden torrent
it also (intentionally) has basically no lyrical depth
since its supposed to be a bit of a reprieve from the heavier content of their previous albums
it's just basically "yeah some shit sucks but we can make the best of it" and thats about it
anyway, like i totally think its fine to ignore lyrics in some cases
and hell i think there are songs which are better off if you kinda just let the lyrics blend into the background
as another instrument
rather than the main driver of the song's thematic development
astral marsh
yes, i mostly also listen to music with foreign lyrics as well
leaden torrent
but if youre "disney girl singing generic disney acoustic"
modest rune
me
leaden torrent
then the music part of your music is incredibly boring and generic
latent forge
I think id need an ounce of weed holy moly
astral marsh
need to get sungha jung on the guitar instead
latent forge
i only recognize that song because of some commercial
and i clicked on a recommended song by beck
leaden torrent
but like, for an example of a song where i think its better if you just kinda let the lyrics... be there
rather than actively listen to them
latent forge
its really not my belonging
leaden torrent
her singing is beautiful but the lyrics are not lmao
very... im not sure "conservative" is the right word
but like
idk
and yet i think the singing still works really well
modest rune
Venice bitch is art
astral marsh
leaden torrent
of course, theres also songs out there where the interplay between the lyrics and the musical development is like
the whole point
like, adele's someone like you is nothing lyrically special
but the way the lyrics interface with the song
latent forge
can generalizations be made to music tastes of people with certain careers
leaden torrent
is fucking amazing
and makes it a modern classic of pop IMO
I hate to turn up out of the blue, uninvited
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it
I had hoped you'd see my face
And that you'd be reminded that for me, it isn't overNever mind, I'll find someone like you
I wish nothing but the best for you, too
"Don't forget me, " I beg
I remember you said
"Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead"
"Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead"
like if you just read the lyrics, it seems like generic "i tell myself i'm over it but i'm actually not"
neon flower
I found the end of the number line, it ends at the number 9 cause all the numbers after it are combinations of the numbers before it
leaden torrent
but the way this development is conveyed through the chorus
is really really strong
fathom swallowBOT
leaden torrent
and makes the lyrics feel a lot more significant than they actually are
im sure youve heard it but just for convenience
it helps that adele is the best singer in pop in decades
leaden torrent
im not either, i dont exactly have this song on my playlists
but i still admire it as a modern classic
since it really is one of the best things pop has put out in the past decade
latent forge
what genre do you listen to mostly?
leaden torrent
punk isnt indie
latent forge
idk what indie is
leaden torrent
indie is hard to define
latent forge
whats a good example
leaden torrent
technically it just means "not part of a major record label" but thats not really a practical label
well it has a bunch of different subgenres
leaden torrent
indie rock has a lot of internal variation as well
latent forge
leaden torrent
but its certainly not country lmao, country is a very specific genre
listen to like
you mightve heard it before, its fairly mainstream for an indie rock song
whole copper
a"I listen to indie"
b"like wot"
a"arctic monke"
b"🗿"
leaden torrent
sully
arctic monkeys are kind of indie but also not really
theyre not independent for one
so theyre like definitionally not indie lmao
but they just kind of developed in a different way from their contemporaries
leaden torrent
anyway, you also have stuff like indie pop
latent forge
only if its in a montage or something
leaden torrent
latent forge
ok yea i see the appeal
leaden torrent
theres also stuff like shoegaze
leaden torrent
no lmao
tame impala is psychadelic but not shoegaze
shoegaze is typically very slow and dreamlike
broken scaffold
music genres 
latent forge
music genres <:sully:651816820122189834>
thats how i feel tbh
leaden torrent
try out like
its by a japanese artist
im not a big shoegaze fan myself
but its a significant genre
latent forge
ok yeah i had an idea of what this is
leaden torrent
latent forge
yeah we were raised differently i guess
leaden torrent
this is more "modern" indie rock
and then theres indie folk
which is more of an... acquired taste i'd say
insert /mu/ memes here
in the aeroplane over the sea, the glow pt 2, fleet foxes, etc
whole copper
sleek wing
did someone say /mu/ memes
latent forge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqzdrnXNKnU
glitchhop?
leaden torrent
black parade and edginess
but emo in an indie context typically refers to midwestern emo
which sounds more like
basically people doing sick things with guitars
latent forge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqzdrnXNKnU
because i can only listen to this if im playing osu
nothing casual or id have serious mental illness no offense
leaden torrent
if you havent heard never meant's opening riff at some point before, i'd be pretty surprised
its very very very famous
whole copper
sounds like nickelback
latent forge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9VhC0hiTg
ah good
leaden torrent
like, its one of those "the dude who brought a guitar to a party played it" songs
leaden torrent
inhereting this "depressed white dude with a guitar" tradition is bands like Car Seat Headrest
latent forge
oh i wasnt even thinking about the image
it just sounded good
namington where did you grow up from
latent forge
o
leaden torrent
so i'd imagine that influenced me some
leaden torrent
Progressive rock, or prog rock, is a subgenre of rock music that emphasizes ambitious compositions, experimentation, concept-driven lyrics, and musical virtuosity.
latent forge
its experimental :/
leaden torrent
prog traces its origins back to in the court of the crimson king by king crimson
a good album to listen to if you like that song
latent forge
is that a jojo reference
wild lantern
Loveless is a pretty well known shoegaze album.
leaden torrent
both the jojo character and king crimson are references to in the court of the crimson king, a composition by some old classical dude
latent forge
oh wtf
i actually know king cirmson
i dont remember where i heard it
just not lyrics ig
leaden torrent
its a very famous album
since it basically invented an entire genre of music
prog rock
latent forge
oh yeah i know this song too
leaden torrent
it also has a famous album cover
leaden torrent
leaden torrent
its sampled a lot yeah
leaden torrent
yeah its one of those albums you should really listen to front-to-back
at least out of like, historical curiosity
latent forge
i dont do that if i cant get through 2 songs without being exhausted
leaden torrent
since it clearly influenced so much music in the coming decades
obviously it invented prog rock entirely but
its influences are also clear in stuff like radiohead or in ska music
and in a lot of jazzier hip hop
leaden torrent
latent forge
oh
latent forge
stuff like tribe called west and guru
leaden torrent
sadly he died in a car accident in 2010
latent forge
i know nujabes ofc
latent forge
count bass d
leaden torrent
anyway i never actually linked an indie folk song
and also the entirety of in the aeroplane over the sea
which im sure youve at least heard of lmao
my personal favourite folk album is joanna newsom's ys but at least like 50% of people who try to listen to that album just cant get over her voice
which is fine
sleek wing
don't forget Ferris wheel on fire
leaden torrent
see if you can stand it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ1yFhjRnNc
if you cant, i totally understand lmao
but i think its a really fuckin well made album if you can get past that
leaden torrent
her debut is the milk-eyed mender
which is actually my least favourite album of hers
oh wait
unless youre counting EPs
leaden torrent
then thats the milk-eyed mender yeah
if you liked it, you might also like have one on me by her
its similar in spirit
whereas ys is a bit of a departure
(though it shares the trait of fluffy lyrics and her vocals being very prominent)
wild lantern
I'll probably give have one on me a shot.
leaden torrent
just a warning, its a long ass album
2 hours
i dont think its bloated or anything though
latent forge
i believe
leaden torrent
baby birch from that album is probably the most a single song has moved me ever
except maybe something from a crow looked at me
but a crow looked at me is kind of a... special case for many reasons
leaden torrent
its entirely lyrics and guitar, and its VERY VERY emotional and heavy and sad
like the music enhances the emotionality but its not something you listen to for the jams or anything
you listen to it for the depressing lyrical content
its the only album i can think of where a lot of the critics were like
latent forge
i have never listened to music to feel depressed or witnes it
sleek wing
🙄
wild lantern
You're missing out then lol
leaden torrent
"i feel like i cant give a score to this because (1) it'd almost be offensive to the content and (2) the album isnt really about its musical quality"
wild lantern
Some times you just need some bummer vibes.
leaden torrent
a crow looked at me is simultaneously one of the greatest artistic triumphs of modern music and one of the hardest albums for me to listen to
sleek wing
nice
leaden torrent
itll feel way longer than 40 minutes though
partially because the lyrics are mystical and crushing but also because
the entire album sounds the same lmao
latent forge
Some times you just need some bummer vibes.
na not thru music
leaden torrent
its just sad dude singing over slow guitar
wild lantern
na not thru music
*not yet
latent forge
not at all
latent forge
the closest ill come to enjoying stories are old school rap
wild lantern
Sad music can be super good.
sleek wing
the closest ill come to enjoying stories are old school rap
what about a 13 song LP that tells a tale of a supernatural apocalypse ;)
wild lantern
It's not always that it makes you feel sad exactly.
latent forge
what about a 13 song LP that tells a tale of a supernatural apocalypse ;)
no lol
i listen to music for good sounds
not a story
sleek wing
it sounds good too!
leaden torrent
It's not always that it makes you feel sad exactly.
this is true but a crow looked at you is all about making you feel sad
or rather
latent forge
it sounds good too!
post
wild lantern
Yah yah
leaden torrent
communicating the singer's sadness and grief and loss
sleek wing
post
:troll: https://wewladstbh.bandcamp.com/album/spectral-analysis :troll:
leaden torrent
i guess that sadness can be cathartic
leaden torrent
personally though i only very rarely willingly listen to it it
like ive only listened to it all the way through like
sleek wing
sadness is very cathartic
leaden torrent
3 times i think
wild lantern
I know I've listened to mount eerie but I do not recall if I liked it.
latent forge
sadness is very cathartic
im flipping the bird at you
wild lantern
I'll probably listen to that album too. I've only ever heard good things about them.
sleek wing
im flipping the bird at you
I'm right
latent forge
ur pretty funny tho
wild lantern
Emily Haines has some good sad solo stuff.
leaden torrent
mount eerie / the microphones is very very very good yeah
wild lantern
She was the front lady for metric.
leaden torrent
really talented
admittedly a crow looked at me is a pretty unique entry in their discography but
a lot of their work is about being honest and open about really sad feelings
thats what most of the glow pt 2 is about, after all
and thats easily his most famous album
wild lantern
Also elliott smith, have a nice life and that group that did divorce lawyers I shaved my head or whatev that albun is called.
latent forge
gou know @sleek wing ill tell u what
latent forge
watching xootynator play europhoria hddt and FC it made me cry today
wild lantern
I love deathconsciousness lol
wild lantern
I have had a hanl hoodie for ages because of that album.
sleek wing
watching xootynator play europhoria hddt and FC it made me cry today
I got like, seven of those words
leaden torrent
im not sure if the premise for the glow pt 2 makes it more sad or more funny
in hindsight
its about a dude whose girlfriend breaks up with him and he gets depressed and starts feeling suicidal and stuff
wild lantern
Nine did you say you like rap?
leaden torrent
and eventually decides to go into the woods to disconnect from her
and then he gets fucking
killed by a bear
like theres no ceremonious end or moment of reflection or whatever
sleek wing
...lol
leaden torrent
a bear just fucking narcs this sad dude
sleek wing
realistic tbf
wild lantern
This is why going outside is bad.
sleek wing
agreed
sleek wing
at least when the bears are awake
leaden torrent
and resulted in a very stupid death
but its a funny premise
when explained like that
leaden torrent
Nine did you say you like rap?
i dont listen to it too much but i like some rap yeah
wild lantern
Not you lol
wild lantern
No worries I was gonna see if nine liked i dont like shit I dont go outside by earl sweatshirt.
astral marsh
my pizza is over 40m late
light needle
Sue.
clever knot
is it free
latent forge
missandry is hating men and mysogny is hating women. what is hating men and women
sleek wing
based
latent forge
what is hating men or women
light needle
John.
sleek wing
what is hating men xor women
bronze pelican
mysondry and missagny
hollow ginkgo
what is hating men xor women
Sexism
latent forge
if hating some people is normal, what is hating most people
clever knot
what is hating all people
bronze pelican
super-normal
hollow ginkgo
what is hating all people
Misanthropy
bronze pelican
This guy pisses me off so much
"you know you're back to Cambridge and you're talking to Cambridge audiences"
Pretentious as fuck
What the literal fuck
Why do you have to say that in the middle of the speaker's talk
crystal stone
Guess you're just ||not cambridge material||
short pivot
what is the obsidian pillar?
sly thistle
what is the obsidian pillar?
u mean in minecraft?
short pivot
lol, no its a channel in this server
limber perch
lol that comment is so pretentious to the point it’s funny
*audience member gives the wrong answer
*speaker gives a detailed explanation on why he’s wrong and what the correct answer is
and then random guy hits the speaker with “"you know you're back to Cambridge and you're talking to Cambridge audiences"”
latent forge
LOL he added nothing
latent forge
Why do you have to say that in the middle of the speaker's talk
i think he is just socially unaware
evidenced by rocking in his seat with shiteating grin while saying it
prof is chad and says "yes very good"
neat lintel
yeah i just watched the part of the video and it just sounds like he blurted it out, like huh?
vagrant kestrel
I mean he did spend a minute reducing fractions
astral marsh
no i think he was just happy that buzzard's pace was adequate for his audience
hence the smile
latent forge
*audience member gives the wrong answer
he gave right answer
light needle
lmao very rude person
short pivot
I mean he did spend a minute reducing fractions
yes, clearly not worth the time of any audience from Cambridge
cold needle
im so confused by the meaning of the thing he blurted out
maybe im illiterate lol
but im incapable of parsing it
short pivot
he essentially said, stop going so slow, we’re from cambridge, we’re smart ppl, ppl from not cambridge = not smart
vagrant kestrel
I will defend this Buzzard heckler to the death
cold needle
i guess ill watch the video
limber perch
he gave right answer
i thought he said something 4^n and it was actually 2^n
latent forge
he essentially said, stop going so slow, we’re from cambridge, we’re smart ppl, ...
i agree with student
but its not socially aware
ill blame culture differences
limber perch
evidenced by rocking in his seat with shiteating grin while saying it
lol i’ve never heard of the term “shiteating grin” but it makes so much sense here
latent forge
o rly?
latent forge
yea
neat lintel
ah ok, that's what he meant
latent forge
its culture difference imo
wasnt meant to be arrogant rly
even though it came off that way
short pivot
even though it came off that way
yea ig it did sound that way
latent forge
wait how was it a compliment
He said it after a student gave a correct answer
And when prof buzz was explaining
He told him this is cambridge audience as away to express their quick understanding
limber perch
oh
neat lintel
now that i understand the whole context, i don't think it was that weird of a thing to say
latent forge
i smile in math classes when something is exciting or new sometimes
latent forge
i don't think it was supposed to be funny
it wasnt but he was saying it with a grin
short pivot
the retort from prof buzz a couple seconds later further demonstrates the misunderstanding, since he goes on to call the town (and consequently it’s people) boring
latent forge
ye
neat lintel
eh, i'm not sure i would call that really a grin
latent forge
meh
ashen zodiac
i smile in math classes when something is exciting or new sometimes
you guys still have expressions
bronze pelican
broken scaffold
nhgh ok let me get this kneebar and then we'll pick our u and dv
sharp mulch
It’s a Gaussian integral…
broken scaffold
im referring to a different hypothetical integral
burnt dune
why
leaden torrent
what source is this?
obviously its perfectly valid and every textbook ever mentions you can do it
but i havent seen someone actually do it before open sets
leaden torrent
still does open sets first
vivid halo
There are some situations where the closed set definition is preferable and more fundamental
E.g. for the Zariski topology
analog salmon
Yeah this is an alg. Geo. book introducing it for zariski
Makes perfect sense in the context, still cursed
velvet dagger
Or laughed at one if it's funny
Laughing out loud in class was accidentally a strat for me
My prof gave a fake proof of Cayley-Hamilton
4 of us cracked the fuck up because we thought it was correct but anticlimactic
And the prof was like yup these guys know I'm lying, can someone else explain why?
And inside I'm just like
0_0
Got away with murder
velvet dagger
Lmfaooooooo
Yeah that was someone's explanation and then I was like o so it's wrong
Honestly in hindsight I don't know why I found that proof so funny given that I believed it
I think we had so much build up to it, like we stated it and used it before without proof
Then the proof is like lul
But I couldn't fucking breathe
neat lintel
but that proof is correct
fading tusk
what proof
leaden torrent
p(A) = det(A - IA) = det(0) = 0
hence A satisfies its own characteristic equation
this is of course nonsense, as p(A), being a matrix, can't be equal to a scalar
but if you dont think, its correct
fading tusk
I'm confused 😦
leaden torrent
whats confusing
neat lintel
Yeah I am constantly confused but I don't say it to keep up appearances
neat lintel
Yes
fading tusk
which one
leaden torrent
that's what the cayley-hamilton theorem says, yes
of course, 0 should actually be a 0 matrix
pure sun
The best proof of cayley hamilton is “extend to an algebraically closed field, it’s clearly true for diagonal matrices, therefore also for diagonalizable matrices, therefore for all matrices since diagonalizable matrices are zariski dense”
leaden torrent
the definition of the characteristic polynomial is
p(x) = det(Ix - A)
where I is the identity matrix
so if we just "plug in x = A"
fading tusk
it is?
leaden torrent
p(A) = det(IA - A) = det(0) = 0
leaden torrent
again though this is nonsense, since x is meant to be a scalar
the theorem itself is true
the proof is incorrect
is the point
the proof makes the claim p(A) = det(IA - A) but the determinant should be a scalar
whereas p(A) is a matrix
leaden torrent
its just a sneaky abuse of notation
there are, of course, actually correct proofs of cayley-hamilton
they're a bit harder than this
though not super sophisticated or anything
fading tusk
yeah I know a couple
I don't understand how something that makes no sense can be a proof though
I've seen fake proofs where there is slight flaws that are hidden
but not fake proofs where it just doesn't make sense
neat lintel
but this proof is correct
fading tusk
which proof?
neat lintel
odd narwhal
