I am willing to take out loan
#serious-discussion
grim token
deep mango
if i had had a better in state school than rutgers
i probably would have preferred that
grim token
why monkas me
deep mango
like if my instate were UIUC, thinking in terms of value, i should have been there instead of berk
grim token
@blazing pawn you are appliying coming up too right?
blazing pawn
taking out that much in loans sounds like a bad idea
i wouldnt go unless ur parents are willing to support you at least in part
deep mango
(and i milked berkeley like fuckin crazy)
grim token
i wouldnt go unless ur parents are willing to support you at least in part
they can support part of OOS UC money
but not all
blazing pawn
ok regardless ur perception of how hard it is to get into these schools OOS is really skewed
deep mango
it doesn't matter
blazing pawn
u can just do a google search instead of an app and calculate this yourself by # of OOS applicants vs # of OOS admits
blazing pawn
Yes but tim is literally wondering whether its worth applying at all
grim token
ok regardless ur perception of how hard it is to get into these schools OOS is r...
skewed? how so
deep mango
and there's absolutely no way numbers will tell you what might or might not happen
deep mango
if you think it's worth a bunch of application fee to roll the die
grim token
but idk
blazing pawn
because you literally thought that its a 3% acceptance rate to get into UCSD oos 
deep mango
then go for it
blazing pawn
extremely not true
deep mango
the die is probably 6 sided
maybe 3% was like, the percent of all applicants who actually attended
grim token
icosehedron type beat
deep mango
the die for princeton rerolls all your items.
blazing pawn
pton 
vivid halo
I mean you likely have a very solid chance to get into any decent state school
deep mango
you would lose all your knowledge, get soy milk, ipecac, and my reflection, and then die to monstro.
blazing pawn
Lmao
vivid halo
yes
grim token
or do they skip
blazing pawn
Yes?
deep mango
they read them but quickly
vivid halo
yes of course they do lol
deep mango
so don't be too flowery
blazing pawn
Yes...?
deep mango
so that they don't lose focus
blazing pawn
Its 650 words mary its not that hard
deep mango
yeah
grim token
but they have lke 80K
vivid halo
no, but they do get a general sense of how strong your essay is
deep mango
really not a big deal
deep mango
but they have lke 80K
there are a lot of admissions people
grim token
Oh yeah
I hope I can get the ones who are feeling generou s
that day
who had a nice breakfast
vivid halo
they don't scrutinize it THAT hard but they do definitely read it and take it into account, if you have a really strong and well written essay that can make a difference
grim token
has coffee
blazing pawn
theyre not skipping words lmfao
blazing pawn
it just has to be a well written essay that convinces people ur a good fit for their school
grim token
I can do that
But anyways let me try to find some good ez to get into schools
besides UIUC
cuz that one is mid for math
maybe university of Austin
it cant be that expensive
deep mango
moth grasping at straws that their perfectly crafted essays will make the admissions staff cry.
grim token
Im not confinced they dont skip
blazing pawn
UIUC is literally good for math...
grim token
100K+ essays
blazing pawn
Great, even
blazing pawn
Oh my god
deep mango
they skip it if the first phrase is "when I was a young boy..."
blazing pawn
How many times do we have to have this conversation
grim token
deep mango
or if the first phrase is "i first knew i loved mathematics when..."
vivid halo
lol
blazing pawn
You keep asking questions and then dont listen when we tell you things that dont confirm your anxieties
vivid halo
you're honestly just making excuse after excuse for why you think the university system is unattainable for you when it's really not
that's all I'm hearing from you
deep mango
we should confirm tim's anxieties, and then it will be a pleasant surprise when they're wrong
grim token
then gtfo
blazing pawn
You're literally making people waste their time trying to help you and then ignoring all of their advice and everything they tell you when it isnt just what you want to hear
Like
deep mango
it's valid to spiral about college admissions. that doesn't make it a smart use of energy, but i did the exact same shit
blazing pawn
Its really rude to make people spend a bunch of time trying to help you if you're just going to ignore it all
grim token
You're literally making people waste their time trying to help you and then igno...
im not ignoreing advice
Its just hard when I hear so much conflicting advice
deep mango
except i didn't have any outlet besides my parents so they heard endless stuff about it and never knew what to tell me
blazing pawn
We've had this same conversation about UIUC like 3 or 4 times now
deep mango
the reality is, there's no perfect advice, and your job is to take people's perspectives and synthesize them into something that feels right for you
deep mango
tonight?!
blazing pawn
No i go home tmrw or on monday i think
grim token
the reality is, there's no perfect advice, and your job is to take people's pers...
yeah
blazing pawn
Tomorrow is sunday 
deep mango
i will not be able to dangan for a while. continue without me
deep mango
||i'm gonna miss chapter 4 😢 ||
modest rune
fuck this name scheme
okay moth
just lmk
im bored today tho
after being a dungeon master
I lose all energy
blazing pawn
Ok tim the thing is ur mom thinking UIUC is bad doesnt actually mean it is in fact bad for math
modest rune
i should DM later at night
grim token
Ok tim the thing is ur mom thinking UIUC is bad doesnt actually mean it is in fa...
yeah but how do I know
deep mango
tim's mom spiraling
grim token
it's good
crystal stone
maybe university of Austin
UT Austin is extremely competitive
blazing pawn
Because all the people who actually do math and know people at these schools are telling u that it is
crystal stone
If you want Texas, A&M is slightly less competitive but still good
blazing pawn
and ur mom is presumably just some random person
deep mango
tim i know someone at UIUC and they're doing very well there in math
blazing pawn
no offense to her i guess
crystal stone
For math?
crystal stone
Huh, that's higher than I'd expect
blazing pawn
deep mango
i really don't think UT austin is that competitive for undergrad
crystal stone
It's not?
deep mango
unless they have some stupid "apply to be in the major" thing
blazing pawn
the Tn conversation is completely pointless
It doesnt really mean anything or tell you anything informative
grim token
I guess
deep mango
sure, but before you're "in the know" it's hard to trust that this is true moth
blazing pawn
its easy to trust if u use critical thinking
grim token
im not in the know
deep mango
it really isn't
blazing pawn
and stop worrying about % rates and prestige
vivid halo
okay then listen to people that actually know what they're talking about instead of people that don't
deep mango
the entire college app process is one big marketing propaganda machine
blazing pawn
for their own sake
deep mango
getting your brain out of that to listen to randos on discord is not trivial
vivid halo
people are telling you that these are 1) very good math programs and 2) completely reasonable to get into given your profile
deep mango
even if it's right
vivid halo
I don't know what more you want
grim token
getting your brain out of that to listen to randos on discord is not trivial
yes
agree
im sry
deep mango
ok tim but the "it's right" part is important too lol
deep mango
i know we're just usernames with dumb profile pics but we're also people with like
blazing pawn
This also isnt ppl saying "just go to UIUC" there are other places you can apply that are feasible (including UCSD)
deep mango
some credentials, connections, and some experience with this
deep mango
exactly
modest rune
lmao inb4 i end up TAing tim
deep mango
you can pick a school once you have options to pick from
grim token
maybe I will play for Graduate School
blazing pawn
arguably the best state school for CS and math outside of the UCs and umich
deep mango
for now it's about assembling a list of good options which range in prestige
blazing pawn
though that depends
deep mango
and just applying to all the options on that dozenish school list
blazing pawn
lmao inb4 i end up TAing tim
no ur TAing for me 
deep mango
you can do that and then pick one in april
blazing pawn
if i end up at UCSD i fully expect max to feed me weekly
deep mango
no way to minmax it
blazing pawn
Let me leech.
crystal stone
UIUC has an excellent representation for math, and seems to do a good job of educating their undergrads without completely draining them
grim token
wait Max teaches at UCSD?
deep mango
i read that as "weed me feekly"
deep mango
not sure what feekly means, but it's accurate still.
blazing pawn
UIUC rep theory arc
velvet dagger
Tim you worry too much. You need to have one well thought out plan and go with it unless information changes
grim token
Yes
velvet dagger
If your plan changes based on your emotional state
grim token
YES
velvet dagger
Then uh
deep mango
do you have a spreadsheet tim
grim token
Yeah
velvet dagger
You're not doing a good job at planning
grim token
It;s hard to plan with my mum cuz shes international she knows nothing really
all she cares abt is prestige
and I know its more than that but
its tough
velvet dagger
Your mom isn't going to college here, you are
grim token
Ik
grim token
right
modest rune
wait Max teaches at UCSD?
yes
grim token
pigeon hole
velvet dagger
You can't tell someone to buy a lottery ticket and order them to succeed
Because you can take every possible step toward success
And still fail
Because fuck you
grim token
maybe the strategy here is just to apply everywhere I can
blazing pawn
Tim what is your current GPA ignoring freshman year
velvet dagger
So sit her down, get that idea in her head
modest rune
maybe the strategy here is just to apply everywhere I can
terrible
velvet dagger
And then find an application strat which is smart
vivid halo
maybe the strategy here is just to apply everywhere I can
congrats you finally understand it
modest rune
unless u give a very unrealistic interpretation of "can"
grim token
I. guess
modest rune
thats bad advice
grim token
yes thats what I will do
modest rune
You want to cast a net that is wide enough in prestige range and a good number of schools
grim token
Apply to shit like Carnegy Melon
velvet dagger
You apply to UIUC, maybe consider California CC (it's a bit risky since you eventually have to reapply but maybe have it as a backup, compare it to other options)
velvet dagger
Decide what subject you want to do
grim token
You apply to UIUC, maybe consider California CC (it's a bit risky since you even...
UIUC > CC
tbh
no?
velvet dagger
No question
velvet dagger
CC is like
vivid halo
why is that even a question
velvet dagger
Giga backup
grim token
Cal CC*
vivid halo
are you joking
velvet dagger
And possibly you don't even really go for it
grim token
Cal CC to UC track I meant
grim token
yes it is
vivid halo
velvet dagger
UIUC is no question better than even California CC
Because in the latter you still have to reapply later
If you go to UIUC
velvet dagger
You are gonna step in
vivid halo
is a good math program
velvet dagger
And4 years later
vivid halo
much better than practically any community college
velvet dagger
You are gonna get a degree from a top program
blazing pawn
Why are u so resistant to the notion that UIUC is good
grim token
How od you know UIUC has good math anywaY?
blazing pawn
its like
leaden torrent
uiuc is comparable to, if not better than, most ucs
vivid halo
How od you know UIUC has good math anywaY?
I know people that are there, I've applied for grad school there, etc
velvet dagger
Thinking about UIUC
blazing pawn
like its on the level of umich and UCSD etc
sharp mulch
Lol rip ucla
leaden torrent
idk about applied stuff
vivid halo
UIUC is really good
velvet dagger
UCLA vs UIUC for algebra is tricky
grim token
UIUC I can also take some CS courses too
velvet dagger
UIUC is better than every UC except Berkeley at CS
leaden torrent
ucla has top notch faculty but seems like a terrible place to be a grad student
vivid halo
I think you'd genuinely have a hard time exhausting what the UIUC department can provide if you go there
velvet dagger
That's no question
leaden torrent
idk about UG
velvet dagger
It's definitely better every UC in math except Berkeley, UCLA, maybe it's tied with UCSD
velvet dagger
I mean unless you're really sure of exactly one area
You can't optimize for undergrad experience
blazing pawn
velvet dagger
Like, grad quality to undergrad quality loses a lot of resolution
vivid halo
wow shocker
velvet dagger
You might find a lower ranked grad program which has a better undergrad structure
To find that out you need to read a bunch of course catalogs
But if you're deciding between n majors
grim token
yeah
velvet dagger
That becomes an eh use of time
grim token
So 300 is 3rd year and 400 is 4th year?
blazing pawn
i dont think these are enforced at UIUC
velvet dagger
And then stuff like student culture
grim token
I have another question
velvet dagger
UIUC is a better backup than most people can ever hope for
grim token
OK good
grim token
If I have self-studied some math
blazing pawn
Its very good
velvet dagger
Cali CC I'd only consider as "If I get rejected even from UIUC"
grim token
even though its course requirement
velvet dagger
@grim token depends on the school
blazing pawn
this seems too specific for people to answer re: UIUC
you should probably ask someone there
blazing pawn
maybe on a subreddit or something
grim token
like is that a thing?
velvet dagger
Jumping prereqs is a thing
But it depends a lot on how chill individual people are
grim token
Maybe I can take an exam or somethign
velvet dagger
You might find a school which one year their course director is a hardass
sharp mulch
I have faith that you’ve not studied any fourth year undergrad material
velvet dagger
And never lets you jump prereqs for any reason
grim token
im doing Abstract Algebra rn
vivid halo
just because you have read X does not mean you can skip X
velvet dagger
So no reasonable blanket answer can be given
grim token
Ok i see
vivid halo
it also doesn't mean you should skip X
velvet dagger
That's why I say, it'd be great if you could optimize for these sorts of factors in your decision making
But it's already difficult to do that if you know you're majoring in X
And then if you're at all undecided it becomes much messier
blazing pawn
just because you have read X does not mean you can skip X
Me in intro group theory 
sharp mulch
I took abstract algebra during 2nd year
velvet dagger
So you should just consider:
(1) How good is the place in STEM?
(2) Cost
(3) Soft factors (class size, student culture, etc)
grim token
(1) is decided by course offerings/staff right?
velvet dagger
Typically, but it's hard to compare that in big detail
Maybe one place is chill in CS and let's you accelerate big time, while in math you have to waddle through 2 years of engineering math
While another place reverses that
What do you do then?
How much detail you need to determine quality depends on the level
If UIUC is your backup just toss it in. It's good at STEM in general. This is a known fact
Maybe once you're deciding your 3 reach schools you might be like hmm
These guys all have pretty good STEM but Yale is kinda meh compared to Stanford
Etc etc
velvet dagger
Don't think that far ahead lol
I applied early decision to UPenn SEAS
Meaning fall of my senior year I was very sure I'd do engineering or CS or something
grim token
SEAS?
velvet dagger
"School of Engineering and Applied Science"
grim token
Right
velvet dagger
Now I do pure math
And go to grad school
At Penn I probably was gonna be done after a bachelor's, if anything was thinking of following up with an MBA
And now look
You can't make too many decisions on behalf of your future self
grim token
Yeah true
velvet dagger
You just gotta go to a good place that gives you lots of opportunities
grim token
Flexibility
velvet dagger
That's your job. UIUC is already one, the best UCs, wherever else
grim token
Mhm
velvet dagger
Then when you're in college make the next step
So yeah do that
Don't wanna see you second guessing yourself tomorrow
If you do I'm gonna find you and steal your lunch money
grim token
XD
vivid halo
one last thing I'll say, the kinds of excuses and second guesses you've been making are, anecdotally, the single biggest thing that holds back people's applications (or lack thereof)
grim token
Inshallah I will have opportunities
Idk why I second guess myself so much
Maybe it protects me from failure
idk
velvet dagger
It doesn't lol
vivid halo
it causes failure
vivid halo
the only thing you're doing is trying to redefine your goals so that you don't have to face failure in the first place; that in itself is a complete failure
velvet dagger
Get smart and make smart decisions
grim token
Right
deep mango
A healthy amount of skepticism is different from an unhealthy amount of self-doubt
grim token
its hard when my firends are perfect students
velvet dagger
Just be good enough like me that you don't need skepticism smh
Nah they're not
I know them
grim token
Lol
velvet dagger
James is slow but doesn't show it
grim token
XD
deep mango
I am slow but don't show it
velvet dagger
Jokes aside there is a point I'm actually making here
deep mango
Actually I do show it
velvet dagger
Namely unless you're in an exceptional case
deep mango
Constantly and with pride
velvet dagger
Everyone's playing the lottery here at the top level
grim token
You are right
velvet dagger
Your goal is to get into a good school. Not to get into this specific school
Because your plans might change later such that this isn't even optimal for your goals long term
grim token
One of them is bound to let me in
grim token
But aren't you bound to go?
velvet dagger
And by then I started to like Chicago more anyway so I wasn't too sad
grim token
If accepted ED
velvet dagger
Aid being insufficient is the one exception
grim token
Ohh
velvet dagger
Point being that like
I was so sure
About Penn
In senior year
Then look how different things ended up after
deep mango
My dad went to Yale and I was supposed to go to Yale and was definitely gonna get in, and then I didn't get in at all
deep mango
Nope, apparently not
Do you know the people at my high school who DID GET INTO YALE
Aaaaaaaarghhhh
I'm still really salty about that
grim token
Well thank you for the chat again fellas
velvet dagger
But yeah you see how we're pretty successful even though our OG plans didn't go as expected
So you can't be too rigid
Be smart and be flexible
And you'll win
deep mango
It doesn't matter, Yale wasn't ever a good fit for me and that was realized in them not admitting me 
velvet dagger
Hahaha
Apparently Yale has a similar pretentiousness to Princeton and their STEM culture isn't the best
grim token
Maybe after I apply and get it over wtih I will send my Essay here and you can chance me. Anyways ty
sharp mulch
Tim tomorrow: where should I go to college
grim token
No
velvet dagger
Which is sad because by the end of it Yale was legit my second choice
grim token
I will say Astaghfurallah and stop this
deep mango
For undergrad?
velvet dagger
Yeah like
neat lintel
How is yale for grad?
deep mango
Bad
velvet dagger
My personal list of where I'd rather go changed a lot
But right before getting the regular answers back
deep mango
Very small, very not good community from what I hear
velvet dagger
My order of preference was something like
deep mango
My friend has a classmate at brown who transferred from yale's PhD
velvet dagger
UChicago > Yale ~ Stanford > Harvard ~ Penn
neat lintel
Hm
velvet dagger
Because I had this one friend who did Yale's first year humanities program
And was selling me on the place so hard
deep mango
I would not bother applying to Yale for math PhD unless there's a very particular person you want to work with a lot
The humanities is really different
At yale
From what i can tell (at least for grad)
velvet dagger
Yeah Yale math is meh nowadays
deep mango
They have le fancy homogeneous dynamics guy
velvet dagger
I guess they're gonna have something of a good analysis group going soon?
deep mango
Phone tried to autocorrect homogeneous to homophobic
sharp mulch
Lollll
velvet dagger
They stole Schlag from Chicago and are in the process of stealing Smart
deep mango
He is not a homogeneous dynamics guy
velvet dagger
Is Goncharov there?
deep mango
Homogeneous dynamics is very pure and geometry-y and algebra-y
G actions on a manifold
Idk who that is
velvet dagger
He's an AG/math physics guy who's supposed to be good
vivid halo
Is Goncharov there?
define "there"
Goncharov is at Yale yes, but is at IAS/IHES most of the time lol
velvet dagger
Feels like their hotshots are all very old
vivid halo
also he's pretty well known to be awful to work with
deep mango
Imagine having a good advisor
velvet dagger
Schlag and Smart are very good in analysis, Margulis is emeritus, Goncharov is oof
deep mango
Schlag is who I was hoping to work with
vivid halo
Goncharov does fantastic stuff but yea he's uhhh
pretty good with the whole "use students as slaves" dynamic
untold sapphire
Phone tried to autocorrect homogeneous to homophobic
my phone autocorrected a mispelling of today to "Toda". clear sign i've been hanging out with too many homotopy theorists
who is goncharov
nvm i googled it
untold sapphire
excellent thank you for pinging me.
can you give more context? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this.
rose oxide
so after u add the rational expressions, look at the numerator and determine the sum of the coefficient
untold sapphire
ok. is this a quote from somewhere?
rose oxide
yes my textbook
untold sapphire
I'll give you an example. The sum of the coefficients of the numerator of this rational function is computed as follows.
$$\frac{4x^2 + 9x - 3}{12x + 8} = 4 + 9 -3 = 10$$
fathom swallowBOT
diligentClerk
untold sapphire
but I don't know what this means or what you're using this quantity for, so I may have misinterpreted the question
rose oxide
After adding the following rational expressions, look to the numerator and determine the sum of the coefficients and constant in that numerator.
i simplified that rational
sharp mulch
rose oxide
to 2x^2-5x-9
woeful locust
Lets I have two color wheels and I introduce a black box by which everytime a color is pointed in the color wheel the function points to the complementary color in the other color wheel. So, does it make sense to ask abt the differentiation or integration of that function?
sharp mulch
woeful locust
Please keep sticker spam to <#342850939306246145>
Oh srry, I didnt meant to, sometimes the keyboard in discord malfunctions
leaden torrent
woeful locust
<:thonk:406575732563902485>
My question had the word c and somehow the sticker of c* showed up and got posted on its own
leaden torrent
cold needle
leaden torrent
get owned ange
cold needle
this week has been bullying ange week
astral marsh
Success
context: orz is this emote
it is used in competitive programming circles
devout nacelle
this week has been bullying ange week
Initiated and actively participated in by the mod team 
sharp mulch
What did I even do
sharp mulch
....
woeful locust
Its all fun and games, until @sharp mulch starts to hum pumped up kicks
cold needle
i don't think school shooter jokes are funny
cold needle
oh my
light needle
Oh my
woeful locust
2. What is pumped up kicks
search foster the kids- pumped up kicks
Search the lyrics
nimble shuttle
it is important that you understand my funny reference to school shootings
woeful locust
yes
cold needle
blazing pawn
Comedy
cold needle
this is the comedy zone
astral marsh
HAHAHA
brave hollow
better run better run outrun my jokes 😎
sharp mulch
woeful locust
all the other outdated jokes run better run
sharp mulch
Why are there school shooter jokes being made
woeful locust
sorry bud youre like the quiet short kid
Keyword: QUIET KID
leaden torrent
yeah no
tone down the edginess
i think its been made clear that other people dont want it here
latent forge
Speaking of which
How important is learning graph theory for just having a math career, is it something that is picked up overtime?
Or should I dedicate a good amount of my time on it if my goal isnt to learn graph theory directly, but just math more generally
velvet dagger
It's not crucial crucial
mild nebula
For someone who wants to do math, I feel like graph theory is just a good way to teach early proofing. It doesn't lead into much imo.
latent forge
Is it good for fitness?
leaden torrent
and can be a useful way to think about combinatorics
but yeah definitely not essential
and the basics are all piss easy inductive facts
bronze pelican
Graph theory is fun
leaden torrent
so you can prove em yourself once you learn definitions
latent forge
What about the fitness though?
neat lintel
fitness?
leaden torrent
idk what you mean by that
latent forge
FITNESS D IN YOUR MOUTH
leaden torrent
...
latent forge
i had to
latent forge
and can be a useful way to think about combinatorics
was only wondering cus hatcher has appendix on it
light needle
graph memes in hatcher is like
you dont need to know any graph theory
just what a graph is
velvet dagger
Fitness was a stretch
latent forge
fitting this?
velvet dagger
Yeah I know. Still a stretch
Tbh I kinda saw it coming
I used to play a game called Sea of Thieves a lot
And uh
People in chat really liked ligma jokes. That was one. I never liked it as much
Actually did you get it from there? @latent forge
velvet dagger
Ah you don't play that? It's mad fun
latent forge
i will try when i get windows machine
velvet dagger
It's mad fun to sea if deez nuts fit
@cold needle we need a running tab of people I destroy
velvet dagger
Apparently not because people keep falling for them
latent forge
falling for deez nuts
stone valve
our nuts
toxic schooner
*soviet music plays*
cold needle
<@229743249877762061> we need a running tab of people I destroy
lmao yes
neat lintel
What's this channel about?
narrow rock
neat lintel
It's a vampy
vast surge
I need some advice. My younger brother has decided to move from being a computer science major to a mathematics major, and also he's decided to move to Australia. Previously he had been going to a large SUNY school, one of the more prestigious SUNYs, studying computer science, and they have what looks like a solid mathematics program. The school that he's going to go to in Australia brags that they're "one of the 450 top schools in Australia" and I can't find any information about their mathematics major on their very confusing website beyond their calculus and linear algebra courses, and that they used to do colloquia before the pandemic. I feel like I should be concerned about the quality of the mathematics education he'll be getting given the lack of information I can find on it.
Does anyone who knows the Australian mathematics university education system have any thoughts on how it would compare with the American system? My mother says that she majored in mathematics in Australia as well and didn't seem to know anything more than calculus and linear algebra, both of which she took in her third year of university.
vast surge
I genuinely don't know.
neat lintel
One of the top 450 schools in Australia?
vast surge
One of the top 450 schools in Australia?
Yeah. I didn't even know there were that many.
He's literally not even going to the main campus of the university he chose in Australia, he's going to the campus that's out in the middle of the bush.
vast surge
We have family on our mother's side who live out in the middle of the bush, and despite the fact that my mother literally never gives good advice I think he's listening to her anyway.
blazing pawn
The SUNY hes at most definitely is top 450 american schools
This ranking concern is strange
neat lintel
In the top 450 is not necessarily something to brag about
blazing pawn
It is probably top 100
vast surge
The SUNY hes at most definitely is top 450 american schools
He might have been in a top 100 globally.
neat lintel
He might have been in a top 100 globally.
I would advise him to stop the madness and do math at his current uni
vast surge
He's going from a prestigious, highly-ranked school to somewhere in the middle of nowhere that I'd never heard of, where I can't find details on their intro abstract algebra or intro real analysis courses.
blazing pawn
this just seems odd
neat lintel
Why Australia?
blazing pawn
like his current university is (if its the one im thinking of) probably stronger
vast surge
Why Australia?
Our mother's Australian and we have some family there.
blazing pawn
and he wont have to retake gen eds
neat lintel
Is he being blackmailed or something
blazing pawn
or move
vast surge
It's not Stony Brook, but I just realized that like half the SUNYs I can name are pretty prestigious.
blazing pawn
most of them are good
vast surge
At least, more prestigious than basically all but like three or four Australian universities.
blazing pawn
i feel like a school bragging about being top 450 and not having any reliable information about upper div classes is like
concerning
vast surge
I'm genuinely concerned that he's making a huge mistake, and our other brother thinks that he's just a massive fuckup.
slim meadow
I don't think prestige rlly matters that much for undergrad, and if he'd be happier in Australia I don't see why this is a huge problem
vast surge
I mean yeah but they're probably also top 10 and should be bragging about that instead.
I'm less concerned about the prestige; I don't go to the most prestigious school I got into. I'm more concerned about the fact that they list "linear algebra" and "calculus" as the classes taken by students for two years in a row, culminating in students learning what a vector space is near the end of the second year linear algebra course.
slim meadow
where was that said what
blazing pawn
in the original message
slim meadow
uhhhh
"didn't seem to know anything more than calculus and linear algebra"
?
I think its pretty standard for students that haven't taken calc to spend two years doing calc and linear algebra?
vast surge
"didn't seem to know anything more than calculus and linear algebra"
She once showed me the list of courses she took, and it listed calculus and linear algebra as 3rd year courses (last year, last semester).
slim meadow
also wait, its not like your mom went to the same school that your brother is going to right?
blazing pawn
I think its not so usual in non american unis where A levels are a thing and you only have 3 years
vast surge
also wait, its not like your mom went to the same school that your brother is go...
No, she went to a more highly ranked Australian school back in like the 1990s or something.
slim meadow
things change from the 1990s?
blazing pawn
The school also does not have any information about their upper div math courses apparently
vast surge
What are you taking year one then?
Looks like calculus, but derivatives and not anything else, and linear algebra, but just Gaussian elimination from what I've seen of the course description.
neat lintel
Looks like calculus, but derivatives and not anything else, and linear algebra, ...
So, why in the name of all thats holy under Heaven is he doing this?
deep mango
if zoph isn't playing devil's advocate or something then
vast surge
Wait no it's "derivatives and Taylor series" like what the fuck where's integration
devout nacelle
I suppose the best thing to do is to contact the department itself with a complete course outline, electives, etc.
vast surge
Nothing, I just wanted a sanity check to make sure I was correct in thinking that his decision was as awful as I thought it looked.
odd narwhal
things change from the 1990s?
They haven't changed that much
deep mango
ok the thing i'm seeing is
slim meadow
It seems that the university has competent enough professors if they're running colloquia
deep mango
obviously this is a truly idiotic decision if your brother has any interest in academia
if that's not the goal
vast surge
obviously this is a truly idiotic decision if your brother has any interest in a...
He wants to get a masters later on he told me.
deep mango
then it doesn't matter that much
light needle
Australian math education is a joke.
neat lintel
The decision seems most insane.
deep mango
ok, if a paid masters is fine it probably doesn't matter that much
vast surge
It seems that the university has competent enough professors if they're running ...
Yeah this is the thing. And apparently they held a dynamical systems conference, and they do have a PhD program too but I can't find any information on the courses for that.
neat lintel
ok, if a paid masters is fine it probably doesn't matter that much
Learning about a vector space in your last semester?
Will he have any training in proofs at all?
deep mango
Learning about a vector space in your last semester?
Will he have any training i...
does he need it
lots of math masters programs are not like
neat lintel
Generally, for a respectable math major, I’d think so
deep mango
expecting more than linear algebra and differential equations
slim meadow
I mean yeah, it seems reasonable they just have a bad website and don't list all of their courses for math majors
vast surge
Learning about a vector space in your last semester?
Will he have any training i...
He will; it looks like year 3 does some graph theory and diff geo (but without any analysis prerequisites which is confusing and it's called "advanced calculus with curves")
deep mango
"respectable math major" is not what every math major needs to get a masters quickly and go work
odd narwhal
He will; it looks like year 3 does some graph theory and diff geo (but without a...
This is the weirdest curriculum I've ever heard of
vast surge
Australian math education is a joke.
Are you speaking from personal experience?
light needle
I have many australian friends.
neat lintel
Name any good math university in Aus?
vast surge
I have many australian friends.
Okay cool good enough.
deep mango
He will; it looks like year 3 does some graph theory and diff geo (but without a...
this sort of diff geo (of curves and surfaces) is not uncommon
neat lintel
This just feels like shooting yourself in the foot for no reason
vast surge
Name any good math university in Aus?
I've heard that University of Melbourne is meant to be pretty good.
odd narwhal
Real calculus has curves
light needle
That isn’t too good in math either banana
Honestly if you wanna do math choose a different country
deep mango
i mean clearly if he knows the area and really wants to live there, and doesn't care about the academic quality (conflicts with the masters thing), then it's not a big deal
vast surge
i mean clearly if he knows the area and really wants to live there, and doesn't ...
When he lived there he wanted nothing but to move away though
blazing pawn
im more concerned about spending a lot of time and money to transfer to a university without knowing that its going to be helpful long term
deep mango
When he lived there he wanted nothing but to move away though
this is why everyone needs robots that make all their decisions for them
people can't make decisions for themselves
vast surge
I'll try phoning him and speaking with him (he moved back to Singapore, where we lived for a time as kids, after getting sick of the SUNY he was at because of pandemic virtual courses, so I can't speak with him in person)
slim meadow
im more concerned about spending a lot of time and money to transfer to a univer...
I mean, it seems that his younger brother is making the move because he wants to be near family? I feel like thats a reasonable decision to make
vast surge
I mean, it seems that his younger brother is making the move because he wants to...
The thing is we have family on our dad's side in the New York/New Jersey area
deep mango
I mean, it seems that his younger brother is making the move because he wants to...
i feel like this is grasping for logic where it may not exist
blazing pawn
if this is for other reasons then its different because the main point isnt "im transferring universities" its "im moving, and the place im moving to has a university i can transfer to so its not the worst thing"
if its "im transferring universities to study math"
Its questionable
vast surge
I'll need to ask him what's going on then.
neat lintel
Shouldn't be there a career guidance agency, for such scenarios?
deep mango
SUNY definitely has advisors who would be like "fuck no"
vast surge
Shouldn't be there a career guidance agency, for such scenarios?
But, like, I've told him it's a bad idea to move across the world on a whim, our other brother who's still in highschool thinks that he's just an absolute fuckup, our dad thinks that it's a massive mistake but it's only 3 years instead of 4 now so he's cool with saving a bit of money. I'm sure his advisors and professors at his SUNY (where he failed out of calc 1 due to either covid or the fact that he's a massive fuckup and was going to have to retake it next semester by the way) would likely tell him it's a bad idea, given what you guys have all confirmed for me.
chilly smelt
You’re talking about your family problems on a discord server?
vestal river
vast surge
You’re talking about your family problems on a discord server?
It's math related it belongs on mathcord
cold needle
olive karma
https://tenor.com/view/you-dont-turn-your-back-on-family-you-cant-walk-away-from...
lol
covert leaf
Unsent because I digress
tall gale
[rant]Don't you hate when you see a stack exchange question like the one you have, but then you find the answer is the most incomprehensible pedantic shit ever? Like, bro, if i'm asking a basic question, i'm not gonna understand your answer that involves something like homology or some shit like that[/rant]
light needle
What was the question?
slim meadow
That is annoying sometimes, but it can be helpful for other people that come across your question and do have that knowledge
This has happened to me a lot
deep mango
[rant]Don't you hate when you see a stack exchange question like the one you hav...
i've had this experience and just said "fuck it, whatever" and then years down the line realized that actually the post was basically doing it in the simplest way possible
like
somehow the algebraic topology stuff is really bad about this
where something that seems like it should be a basic question which should have nothing to do with algebra or anything complicated actually ends up being super not basic if you think about it long enough, and any way you solve it effectively involves reinventing homology or van kampen or intersection theory or something
(e.g. jordan curve theorem for the classic example)
tall gale
That is annoying sometimes, but it can be helpful for other people that come acr...
I agree that it's nice when they further explain an add nuances for future readers, but i think they should at least try to answer at somewhat the level the question is
ember finch
I agree that it's nice when they further explain an add nuances for future reade...
I feel like without knowing the question and the solution, it is impossible to see wether it is appropriate to use advanced math. If there is a basic solution that takes inspiration from something deeper, then what you suggest makes sense, but if the only solution known is advanced, then there is nothing you can do about it.
tall gale
I feel like without knowing the question and the solution, it is impossible to s...
It was not a problem to be solved, but rather a misunderstanding (basically, about the dimension of the projective space, the answer was simply: projective spaces are not vector spaces, and you're using vector spaces definition of dimension)
vast surge
I agree that it's nice when they further explain an add nuances for future reade...
An easy example of some extremely deep problems that are easy to state might be diophantine equations. You'll see them sometimes in those fruit math memes, and the basic idea behind the question is easy to grasp and understand why it's interesting. You could explain them to 13-year-olds. Conversely, methods for solving them range from very hard to absurdly hard.
ember finch
It was not a problem to be solved, but rather a misunderstanding (basically, abo...
Well, with this context I think what you said is very reasonable then
slim meadow
I agree that it's nice when they further explain an add nuances for future reade...
Eh, I feel like if someone wants to write a high level explanation because it's more natural to them then that's fine and they shouldn't be forced to write a lower level explanation as well. Multiple people can answer questions and give different perspectives on the problem at different levels
tall gale
Eh, I feel like if someone wants to write a high level explanation because it's ...
I mean, it varies a bit, but i was thinking more about questions related to definitions, or not understanding an example or concept.
slim meadow
I feel like what I said still applies
Not to mention it can be hard to tell the level of the asker by the question sometimes
tall gale
Not to mention it can be hard to tell the level of the asker by the question som...
I don't know, i feel that if someone is making a question about say, what a normal subgroup is, you can gauge they're just learning group theory?
velvet dagger
Depends on the question. If someone asks a question like you said and gets an answer involving spectral sequences, then yeah someone's showing off or made a very questionable pedagogical call
But in general the phenomenon of answers that are beyond reach of the asker can occur even when everyone is being reasonable
tall gale
Sure, i don't mean to put everything on the same bag.
sharp mulch
cold needle
see #old-network for physics
ancient flame
damn I was actually expecting more results
calm quiver
pffft
180
i dont see why people dont try to understand it if its just gonna pop up on the exam at the end
edgy atlas
if i can memorize this i don't have to understand
calm quiver
ehhh maybe
i like to memorize how functions and equations work. which is basically what learning is. never thought engineering would be this complex
tall gale
damn I was actually expecting more results
now i'm thinking about the possible spelling mistakes, lingo and or abbreviations that are missing from there
slim meadow
I don't know, i feel that if someone is making a question about say, what a norm...
Sure but even this is super vague. Would it be inappropriate to give motivation coming from ring theory or topology, because some people learn those before group theory. Or is it appropriate to describe normal subgroups as kernels of ring homomorphisms? Because some people learn homomorphisms before normal subgroups and some don't. Etc etc there are a lot of problems here
And the same thing earlier applies that other people asking the question might have different backgrounds too
sick burrow
tall gale
Sure but even this is super vague. Would it be inappropriate to give motivation ...
now i'm curious, how can you learn ring theory before learning what normal subgroups are? For the little i know, ideals and quotients are pretty important, and you can't define a quotient ring without passing through a quotient group?
slim meadow
I mean, rings are abelian groups, so all subgroups are normal and you don't really need to worry about them. I don't know much about this approach, but I know this is how the university of washington teaches algebra
tall gale
Yeah, but you still need to define quotient rings
groups*
Probably not in full generality, but enough so that people don't get confused?
Not saying you need a big background, but there are some core concepts that are pretty much related?
vast surge
The addition group of a ring is abelian, so all subgroups are normal subgroups, so there's no need to worry about normal subgroups. When you do group theory it's important.
tall gale
But quotient rings are defined from quotient groups, no?
vast surge
No.
The idea is similar - we define a certain type of subset that's important (normal subgroups and ideals) and look at their cosets, but you don't need to talk about quotient groups to understand the idea of a quotient ring.
neat lintel
vast surge
I mean, yes, if we choose to just forget about multiplication what we're ding is modding out by a subgroup to get a quotient group, but because the group is abelian we don't need to worry about whether it's normal or not.
tall gale
I guess it could be ad hoc, and i don't know enough to say if it could be totally formal or not.
blazing pawn
I mean it doesnt really matter you can approach these definitions from a lot of different angles but its the same thing regardless
tall gale
Sure, i get that. But quotient groups are only defined with normal subgroups, sure, you don't care in the case of abelian groups, but if you don't precise that it's not really complete, no? (genuine question, not an expert on the subject)
mild nebula
Rings are easier than groups when it comes to quotients
vast surge
Sure, i get that. But quotient groups are only defined with normal subgroups, su...
In practice if you know your group is abelian you know all subgroups are normal.
velvet dagger
So the thing is PCR
If you only know what a quotient of a ring by an ideal is
It is true you don't have the full group theoretic story
But if you're not learning group theory
That's just fine
vivid halo
You can perfectly well learn ring theory before group theory
velvet dagger
Like there's a complication in a more general context but you're not operating in that more general context
tall gale
dunno, I think is easy to gauge someone's level by the type of question they're posing. Maybe i didn't picked the right example (mostly because i'm learning ring theory with definitions backed by group theory) By if someone asks about the definition of limits, i'll asume they don't know about the definition of derivates
mild nebula
Groups don't have enough structure to create arbitrary quotients, so you need to consider this "normal" nonsense.
Rings just have enough structure already and can always quotient
velvet dagger
I mean the problem is you can't really discuss this in the abstract
You have to consider each case by itself
tall gale
Yeah, but then you ask "what are quotients", no?
mild nebula
I mean yeah I'm kinda lying here, but that's at least how it feels sometimes haha
tall gale
Like, 'im not saying you gotta master it
mild nebula
Cause you do need to talk about ideals, but they're everywhere
tall gale
But if ring quotients are defined on group quotients, and group quotients are defined with normal subgroups, then it just looked to me that one definitions builds on the other (even if you don't really care at the end about normal or not, just for the definition of quotient)
I guess i could've picked something i'm more familiar with, like definitino of limits and derivatives
or series of functions from series of numbers, or stuff like that
vast surge
In your limit/derivative example, lots of calculus students (at least that I've TAed) know how to define the derivative in terms of the limit but just have an intuitive understanding of the limit, not seeming to understand epsilon-delta at all.
tall gale
then change derivative with continuity :p
vast surge
Like, they'll say "the limit is when you get closer and closer to the number but don't quite reach it" or some other wishy-washy handwavy intuition.
vast surge
then change derivative with continuity :p
"A function is continuous if you can draw it without picking up your pen/pencil".
blazing pawn
understanding metrics makes epsilon delta so much easier to explain
tall gale
Yes, but not if you're talking about formal definitions, which was mostly my point
vast surge
understanding metrics makes epsilon delta so much easier to explain
Yeah but it's not like those calc 1 kids know the first thing about real analysis most of them only just got out of highschool
tall gale
Talking about the formal definition of continuity, to someone who ask about the formal definition of limit
blazing pawn
If i explain eps delta to people i just explain it in terms of euclidian metrics
and use d for a distance function instead of + delta and + eps
cold needle
:PetTheCat:
blazing pawn
tall gale
Like, sure, you can have certain ideas about certain elements, but i think you can more or less gauge someones level (by either "in general" or in "rigorous understanding" ) relatively easy. You're not gonna put some epsilon delta definition of uniform convergence to someone who's asking about what epsilon delta even means, and someone who is studying uniform convergence prooobably understands epsilon delta?
slim meadow
I mean sure, you can partial order some things, but there's no way you're going to get a total order. Like moth says, do you do things in general metric spaces or stick to Euclidean spaces with the usual metric is something that would be hard to judge and could change your answer a bit. Or maybe the person knows some topology and you could explain it in terms of open sets, etc etc
tall gale
Of course, that's why i'm not making a blank statement
odd narwhal
"A function is continuous if you can draw it without picking up your pen/pencil"...
Everyone knows the most natural and intuitive definition of continuity is that the inverse image of an open set is open
tall gale
But you can kinda get that if someone is asking about a calc 1 -type question, they havent seen any ring theory, in like, almost every case?
slim meadow
I mean sure, I don't disagree with that. But again, writing answers at a higher level is beneficial to others who come along
And forcing people to have to always try to answer at the level of the asker doesn't seem to be the right thing to do
And I mean, I've talked to plenty of people who have seen ring theory and just skipped calc
vast surge
And forcing people to have to always try to answer at the level of the asker doe...
Again, I'd point to diophantine equations as an example of that. Try explaining the solution to some of those fruit math diophantine equations to lots of the people able to understand and ask the question.
tall gale
In some cases i agree, but was mostly thinking about the type of questions/answer in which anyone understanding the answer will not have that question to begin with, mostly dealing with some basic definitions
slim meadow
People can come at basic definitions with vastly different backgrounds? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say
vast surge
Like, explain the answer to this in a way that my highschool dropout aunt who might be inclined to share it on facebook would understand.
nimble shuttle
I could solve that easily.
vast surge
Super easy to read and understand the problem, even if you're in middle school. You need to know a bit about elliptic curves to be able to answer it.
sly thistle
Well I actually put it in desmos, the explicit transformations to weierstrass form
Once you have this, you can find some rational points, and then just hope that you can multiply them to get an integer point
vast surge
Well I actually put it in desmos, the explicit transformations to weierstrass fo...
Oh also I must say I love your youtube channel
odd narwhal
Like, explain the answer to this in a way that my highschool dropout aunt who mi...
What's the name of this
vast surge
Okay sorry
vast surge
I haven't even seen the youtube I just saw your name.
sly thistle
Hold on let me see if I can find it
vast surge
Oh hey banana wanna read more Lang
Mic's dead right now and I'm visiting family tomorrow. I want to, but I don't think I'll be able to for a little while
neat lintel
AlephNull#6081's youtube channel is truly great, i like to watch it while i'm eating dinner
light needle
Sum ei fi is much easier with localization
nimble shuttle
Super easy to read and understand the problem, even if you're in middle school. ...
a=154476802108746166441951315019919837485664325669565431700026634898253202035277999, b=36875131794129999827197811565225474825492979968971970996283137471637224634055579,
c=4373612677928697257861252602371390152816537558161613618621437993378423467772036
I found it rather easy actually.
vast surge
I found it rather easy actually.
Yeah did your solution involve looking it up on quora
sly thistle
$x^{3}+\left(3+2k\right)^{2}x^{2}+4\left(6+4k\right)\left(5+2k\right)x+\left(4\cdot\left(5+2k\right)\right)^{2}=y^{2}$
fathom swallowBOT
Alephnull (no, not the youtuber)
sly thistle
nvm it wasnt weierstrass
but it was a lot closer than the original a/(b+c)+b/(c+a)+c/(a+b)=4 to something useful
tall gale
People can come at basic definitions with vastly different backgrounds? I'm not ...
Anything that answers a question about a (basic) building block of a theory with a result from said theory basically
vast surge
Anything that answers a question about a (basic) building block of a theory with...
Oh, you mean like the old joke of the first-year student who asked "what's an isomorphism" and they're told "it's an arrow with an inverse arrow"?
odd narwhal
@sly thistle are you gonna make a video about this problem for your yt channel
sly thistle
:(
slim meadow
Anything that answers a question about a (basic) building block of a theory with...
And again, people can come at basic building blocks with vastly different backgrounds that can change the appropriate answer
tall gale
And again, people can come at basic building blocks with vastly different backgr...
To a degree, thats why i'm talking in particular about using a result that relies on the building block you're asking about
slim meadow
I have no idea what you're trying to say
I have zero clue what your point even is anymore
cold needle
it feels like its been several hours now
vast surge
it feels like its been several hours now <:hmmCat:831508801646755850>
Two and a half.
neat lintel
welcome to the math discord server where you can have a 2.5 hour conversation that ends in "i don't even know what you're saying"
vast surge
welcome to the math discord server where you can have a 2.5 hour conversation th...
I think we can generalize that to conversations in general to get a more general result.
cold needle
this server is a lovely place
cold needle
/s
vast surge
tall gale
I have zero clue what your point even is anymore
If someone is asking about a concept, and your answer relies on understanding something that relies on that concept. i don't get whats so hard to grasp x)
vast surge
If someone is asking about a concept, and your answer relies on understanding so...
Can you provide a specific example?
cold needle
And so it begins again
vast surge
Can you provide a specific example?
By the way I often ask this question in lectures when the professor's like "does anyone have any questions", it makes it so much easier to understand a general idea when there's a specific example to think back to
neat lintel
ask them when u will use it in real life
odd narwhal
A good professor should litter their lectures with examples
vast surge
will try that in class
Yeah. Instead of "consider a field extension", an example might be "consider Q(i)/Q", for example. I just often don't know the examples in advance
vast surge
My school kept doing in-person classes throughout the pandemic; we just all wore masks
neat lintel
did any of yall get covid?
frail lagoon
yeah here (uk) schools have had teaching as usual whilst (at least most i think?) unis have had online teaching lol
vast surge
did any of yall get covid?
Like 3 people did but they got it because they went out and acted stupid and contact tracing put their friends in isolation before it could spread
frail lagoon
didn't mean to spark a covid conversation though lol
tall gale
Can you provide a specific example?
Not off the top of my head, but i do recall coming across dual spaces in answers about understanding vector spaces
cold needle
good morning friends
i mean
night
whatever
EST moment
anyways i finished my last final exam just now
for that entomology class
im done with summer classes
i get 2 weeks off 😌
then fall starts 🌚
we don't have the cursed moon emoji
...
brb
leaden torrent
i have no clue what the previous convo was about but it seems like everyone involved was trying to flex on everyone else
wild lantern
💪
astral marsh
leaden torrent
blazing pawn
Average FF XIV fan
leaden torrent
leaden torrent
astral marsh
@leaden torrent the max male (sun clan or whatever, not sure if there's a difference clan-wise) miqo'te height is 5'8.2
uninstalling
astral marsh
you know, i was going to not go for the miqo'te female route but i might just have to at this point
leaden torrent
The Seekers of the Sun are a highly patriarchal culture, with each tribe centered around a strong breeding male (nunh) whose duty is to form a harem and lead his people to glory and prosperity. Young males are born and raised as "tia," and must either assume the position of nunh by challenging and defeating an existing nunh in single combat, or leave the community to find a harem of his own. In particularly large tribes, multiple nunh may coexist in the same community, though such cases are rare.[5]
While not impossible, a Seeker of the Sun choosing his mother's name to be his last, would amount to shunning his culture and adopting the rules of the Keepers of the Moon. There will be some Seekers of the Sun who will respect this, but others who frown upon it.[8]
astral marsh
???? the minimum elezen male (again, the sun clan or whatever) height is 6'4.2? ?? you can only be a lanklet
astral marsh
did you think i was kidding
leaden torrent
fyi if you want to change your race later you can
leaden torrent
you get a one-time-free change as part of the main story
after that its $10
(changing hairstyle and shit is always free though)
south summit
Amen
leaden torrent
everything except your starting class is just flavour
south summit
leaden torrent
so go with whatever
astral marsh
what am i supposed to pick to become a bard again
leaden torrent
archer will get you there fastest but you can pick anything
you can play all jobs on 1 char easily
archers start in the town of racist hippies, other classes start elsewhere
city of capitalist dwarfs or pirate venice
leaden torrent
kupo
cold needle
kupo