serious-discussion

[grim token]

Is that the best one?

[crystal stone]

De Anza is one of the top transfer ones, but they don't seem to have as strong a math program

[grim token]

I mean undergraduate education is probably more or less the same

[sharp mulch]

Diablo Valley as well

[grim token]

So if you had to pick one

[crystal stone]

I don't think so

[grim token]

Which one would it be

[sharp mulch]

PCC is probably good as well

[grim token]

for a safety school

[crystal stone]

Pasadena community college is solid

If you want to learn proof based math in community college, go to Orange Coast

If you want to do some research based stuff, there's Fullerton College

[grim token]

I don't care what I learn in the first 2 years

I want to go to get the brand name of a UC

[crystal stone]

Then why go to college?

[grim token]

so I can get ajob

[crystal stone]

Ahuh

[grim token]

I will learn at the UC ofc

[crystal stone]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse

[grim token]

Never heard that one

[crystal stone]

People don't hire you because you went to a UC

[grim token]

Yeah they do

Ofc they do

[crystal stone]

What

[grim token]

they see the college name

and they are like ok this person is smart

[crystal stone]

lol No

Do you know how many people graduate from a UC every year

[cinder zephyr]

it depends on the major

[grim token]

that doesn't matter

they are the best of california

[sharp mulch]

[crystal stone]

You're wrong, but ok

[cinder zephyr]

if you're a EECS major from UC Berk you get alot more attention than other colleges

[grim token]

That's what im saying

[cinder zephyr]

but also if you didn't do shit at Berk

[crystal stone]

Local employers actually prefer people from SLO for EECS

[cinder zephyr]

no internships, projects, research, or effort

no one cares

[grim token]

well who doesn't do those things

everyone does

[cinder zephyr]

I'm talking about like FAANG and stuff @crystal stone

not local

[crystal stone]

The vast majority of undergrads don't do those things

[cinder zephyr]

meet more lazy people

or not even lazy

just like

80% of undergrads

Internships are common sure

[grim token]

No at the top schools there are no lazy ppl

[cinder zephyr]

🧢

[crystal stone]

Disclaimer: I don't work for a FAANG, but many people in my immediate family/friend group do

[grim token]

that's only at CC and stuf

[cinder zephyr]

meet more people

[crystal stone]

Going to Cal versus Irvine versus a CSU doesn't matter for a FAANG

[cinder zephyr]

lmfao classic "CC = lazy" POV

[crystal stone]

You really have no idea what you're talking about

[grim token]

I told my dad about my backup transfer from CC plan

But he said that I might get stuck there

What does tha tmean?

[cinder zephyr]

Ah yes parents the de facto knowledge source of all college things

the people who went to college ~30 years ago

[crystal stone]

What authority does your dad have to speak of on Community College or University students aspirations?

Today?

[cinder zephyr]

cause no change has occured in 30 years

[grim token]

Well idk man

[crystal stone]

Did he go to CC? If so was that recently?

[grim token]

No

That's just what was told to me man i dont know

[cinder zephyr]

I know lazy people at my school for CS (top 5 CS school) and I know hardworking people at CCs

[grim token]

this is depressing Im never going to find a college

[cinder zephyr]

Yes you are

[crystal stone]

I went to CC from 2013-2016, and worked at CCs for over 5 years. I also attended a good UC, and a CSU, and now I work in a University

[grim token]

I wish I could do that

[crystal stone]

I'm not trying to do an appeal to authority

[cinder zephyr]

Let me tell you for a fact that I have met some lazy people here at my college

you'll be fine

[grim token]

Wherever I go I am going to work my ass off

[cinder zephyr]

that's good

[crystal stone]

But like....you should talk to people who know what they're talking about. Family is great and all but they might not be in the know about College stuff

[grim token]

THat is why i wanted to chat w/ u

[crystal stone]

Like if you do EECS, I'd recommend cal poly SLO over Berkeley

[grim token]

EECS?

[cinder zephyr]

really?

[crystal stone]

Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

[cinder zephyr]

Berkley is a top EECS school tho.

[grim token]

Ok Cal Poly is a school I am applying to

[crystal stone]

The faculty do more to help you get internships, industry projects, and research going while you're a student

At Berkeley you're just a student ID in a large lecture hall

[cinder zephyr]

Hm fair enough

[grim token]

yeah I dont want this for my college

[cinder zephyr]

I mean I could say that about my school but i prefer being in a large school

[crystal stone]

Then don't go to a UC

[sharp mulch]

If you're a top student, then Berkeley will be a better place because you'll be able to get better things without needing that much faculty guidance

[cinder zephyr]

so I guess that's my perspective

[sharp mulch]

EECS and CS are both very large majors as well

But I know like

First year CS/EECS people for got research

[cinder zephyr]

Yea if you don't need that much guidance, then Berkeley has more resources

but less help to get those resources

and more competition

[crystal stone]

So my wife got into Cal Poly SLO for CS, and we went out there for the transfer orientation - their entire shtick is we are going to put you in small classes, so you know your professors, and you are going to do industry projects as a student

[grim token]

That's awesome

[crystal stone]

Her older sister went to Cal for CS and said it was miserable due to the workload

[sharp mulch]

There's lots of ways to do industry projects at Berkeley

[grim token]

CalTech?

[sharp mulch]

They certainly aren't as accessible

[grim token]

Cal Poly seems nice man

[sharp mulch]

Oh yeah there are CS classes that ruin people's lives

At Berkeley

[crystal stone]

That's my main point. If you are the cream of the cream, berkeley might be better - but even at that I'm skeptical of how much better Berkeley would be over SLO

[grim token]

What do you mean ruin ppls lives?

are they poorly taught>?

[crystal stone]

Days without sleep

Working on projects

Grinding coffee, your mind to dust

[grim token]

I have grit

[sharp mulch]

Well

[crystal stone]

Angela's Duckworth research is not that well founded

[sharp mulch]

Hopefully it will get better

Because they're changing CS admissions

It's no longer a GPA floor to get in

You need to apply to CS now

[crystal stone]

Anyways, my wife went to Irvine for Computer Science transfer due to financial constraints we had

She placed into a FAANG right away

[sharp mulch]

So hopefully this will help control class sizes + unnecessary competition

[crystal stone]

Her older sister went to Berkeley, and had to wait a year before she got into a FAANG

[grim token]

Man I wish I can be successful

LIke hat

that

[crystal stone]

So it's not like if you go to Cal over some other UC you'll automatically get what you want

[sharp mulch]

I also know lots of people who got through CS without issue with good time management/teamwork skills

[grim token]

Do you mean Cal Tech?\

[sharp mulch]

Yeah the point is that the university doesn't quite matter as much as you think it does

[crystal stone]

Cal = Berkeley

The most important thing is to find an environment you'd thrive in

If you know how you are as a student

[grim token]

I would proabbaly thrive in a Cal Poly type school

Smaller school

No competitiion

[crystal stone]

e.g. I went to UCLA and I hate the quarter system. Had a bad time

[grim token]

I can just learn bc I want to

[crystal stone]

I wanted to go to Berkeley, but I was rejected

[sharp mulch]

Smaller schools do not have "no competition"

[crystal stone]

SLO has plenty of competition lol

[grim token]

Yeah but you said it was smaller classes

and you are not just an ID

that's nice

[crystal stone]

You can build a relationship with your professor

[grim token]

that's nice

[crystal stone]

That's not the same thing as "Oh this will be a cake walk"

[grim token]

yeah ik

Also, do universities care about improvement?

my grades

[cinder zephyr]

yea

Upwards trend always a good thing

[crystal stone]

It depends on the university - but in general that falls under the purview of Admissions Officers

[grim token]

I transferred from a foreign curriculum to American High school

and I had a really hard time

[crystal stone]

Taking CC might be a good way to acclimate yourself to american education system

[grim token]

grade 9 I had a 3.1 GPA, grade 10 I had a 3.5. Now I ended grade 11 with 3.95

I am worreid that I have no choice

but to go to CC

thatis why Im asking

my numbers are really lousy

[crystal stone]

You can try applying to Cal Poly SLO

I really don't recommend Pomona to anyone

[grim token]

Really?

[crystal stone]

Do you have an intended major yet?

[grim token]

no

math enginjeering

something like that

[blazing pawn]

Ok I understand anxiety but the people who have such absurdly unrealistic beliefs about how college admissions function confuse me

a 3.95 gpa in junior year is not going to leave you with no options but CC

[grim token]

it makes me really depressed still

[blazing pawn]

those numbers are objectively fine

[grim token]

the work I put in to get this far

it was insane

[sharp mulch]

A 3.95 makes you really depressed???????

[blazing pawn]

You could probably get into several UCs

[grim token]

No 3.1

makes me fucking dfrpessed

I didnt' know algebra

[blazing pawn]

well i assumed u live in cali

[grim token]

i didn't write an essay

in english

[blazing pawn]

because moonbears recommended it but

[grim token]

until grade 9

[sharp mulch]

Tim does not currently live in California

[blazing pawn]

Ok yeah like

state schools

[sharp mulch]

Tim currently lives in Illinois

[crystal stone]

They specifically asked about California Colleges

[blazing pawn]

im sure theres a strong one you can apply to and get in to with those stats

[sharp mulch]

Which is why in the past, people recommended schools like UIUC

[grim token]

yeah

[distant vortex]

Tim lives in racoonlandia

[grim token]

UIUC is my fallback

plan

I wan to do better

and be a great person someday

[blazing pawn]

UIUC is my fallback plan
im worried ill have no choice but to go to a CC

[modest rune]

again

like

[grim token]

UIUC = cali CC

bro

[blazing pawn]

UIUC is one of the strongest schools for engineering in the country...

[modest rune]

UIUC

is like

a great fucking school lol

[grim token]

I guess

[blazing pawn]

"i guess"

[modest rune]

no i mean

im not asaking

[blazing pawn]

Its better than many UCs

[modest rune]

asking*

im telling lol

its a great school

[grim token]

But look at the acceptance rates

[blazing pawn]

for engineering

[modest rune]

Acceptance rates are stupid

ignore them

they dont matter

[grim token]

I guess

[crystal stone]

Timmy my person, UCs really aren't that good for Engineering IMO. They do too much focus on theory and not enough on projects

[blazing pawn]

Who cares about the acceptance rates

You should care about the quality of the institution

[crystal stone]

My roommate was Mechanical Engineering at UCLA - he just got his Masters and he can't find a job

[grim token]

Actually?>

That's so crazy

UCLA is a top school

companies should be coming to your doorsetp

[blazing pawn]

Do you want to get a good education and have proper opportunities

Or do you want prestige

[crystal stone]

I don't think that's how it works

[grim token]

Education

[crystal stone]

You don't go to a top school and get a job for being at a top school

[grim token]

But I dont want ppl to look at my like I am not smart

Idk

its dumb

[blazing pawn]

Ok so it is about prestige lol

[grim token]

no but idk

[blazing pawn]

Is what it comes down to

[grim token]

I WANT to not care about prestige

[crystal stone]

You go to a school, work hard, get something interesting done, and then you get a job for the interesting stuff you've done

[sharp mulch]

But you do....

[blazing pawn]

Because as we've said there are plenty of excellent schools that u can get into with ur grades

also UIUC is prestigious...

Im pretty sure its literally T5 for computer engineering

and probably T20 or T30 for other fields

What is the problem

[grim token]

Yeha it's a good school

For stem

[blazing pawn]

UIUC should be ur backup because there are other schools that interest you more not because there are other schools with lower acceptance rates

[grim token]

this is so hard to decide man

[blazing pawn]

and you want to flex or something

[grim token]

its so hard to choose

Moth you are in same grade as me no?

how are you choosing

it's so painfuil

[blazing pawn]

Based on what schools are good

[crystal stone]

I don't think Moth worries about "What rank the university is"

But rather

"Who is at the university I'd like to work with or learn from"

[grim token]

I guess I feel a bitbetter now

[blazing pawn]

california is expanding

its taking over

[crystal stone]

oregon, nevada, and arizona better look out!

[blazing pawn]

[grim token]

I am also worreid about my extra curriculoar

what if I am not good enough

for uiuc

[blazing pawn]

I am pretty sure you will be considering ur grades but like

Again

Dont freak out about things u cant change

[grim token]

3.1

yep

I am intellegent

:D

[blazing pawn]

Your gpa averages out to like 3.6 anyway doesnt it...

[grim token]

Yup

:D

[blazing pawn]

and theres an upward trend

[grim token]

It's frustrating though

[blazing pawn]

which admissions officers take into account

[crystal stone]

3.6 average is like a A- average

That's good

[grim token]

Like the fucking amount of work I put in

[crystal stone]

UCs don't even count freshman year?

[grim token]

and no one cares

[crystal stone]

Timmy my person, you know I graduated HS with like a 2.5 GPA

And that was with sports holding me up

When I transferred from CC to UCLA, I had like a 3.65?

[grim token]

Really>

?

[crystal stone]

Yuh

[grim token]

What was your extra curricular

[crystal stone]

Hrmm...I didn't really include it that much on my application

But I did a lot of volunteering in my community: feeding the homeless, working on rebuilding Native American reservations; I also did water polo at a fairly high level

[grim token]

Is volunteering a good extra currulinar?

I don't want univeristies to see that I just do it to get in

[crystal stone]

I mean, I didn't do it for College

I did it because of my religion at the time

[grim token]

ok

[mortal oasis]

my favorite way to volunteer is to tutor like inner city kids

[blazing pawn]

i n n e r c i t y

[mortal oasis]

or people who normally wouldnt be able to afford extra help

hahahha idk what to call it!

c'mon you know what I mean

[grim token]

If I can't be the smartest guy (my gpa is shit) I will be the nicest guy.
But I am worried that univeristies will just see this as something I am doing just to get into college

but it's not

[blazing pawn]

idk if theres a better term i just find the phrase funny

[grim token]

idk I have to write about this I guess

[blazing pawn]

the urban youths

[mortal oasis]

yea I do too but idk what else to say

[cold needle]

that sounds like a band name moth

[modest rune]

boundary city kids always get ignored

[blazing pawn]

to be clear i was not suggesting urban youths as an alternative to inner city

[grim token]

Well thanks for the chat @crystal stone . Sorry I don't know a lot

[crystal stone]

It's all good

[hallow wasp]

exaggerated swagger of an inner city teenager

[mortal oasis]

look just hit em with this

Never forget that the reason math produces so many gems and visionaries is because math is definitively hard, and has the hardest problems known to man, so men who consistently push themselves to solve adverse problems, will attain a generalizable ability to develop creative solutions to problems with ease as oppose to only dealing with the problems of a regular joe life, people who have been through it develop street smarts and learn how to solve street problems, but you can only see so many street problems, there are thousands of math problems in physics engineering and many other disciplines it is pure beauty!

Thats why I want to study math at your uni

[hallow wasp]

men

[mortal oasis]

full ride

[hallow wasp]

language is too gendered for a free ride

place an s before he

it sounds super impressive idk why

regular jolyne

[mortal oasis]

I have never seen the not very cool people tag before

[cold needle]

you have

[mortal oasis]

oh nvm

[cold needle]

its not very ppl

jesse also has it

[mortal oasis]

Ah

then yea i have

[crystal stream]

is it worth it to spend some time memorizing formulas?

[torn willow]

What kind

[crystal stream]

I'm very much against it in general, but I feel like if I don't I will have to rederive the entirety of electrostatics when the test comes around.

[fallow laurel]

I still need someone to review my solution.

Where are the expert people?

[sharp mulch]

#❓how-to-get-help

[cold needle]

well

[toxic schooner]

well, if u practice questions, u will remember the formulae better

[cold needle]

what kind of the electrostatics formulas

there are only a handful of equations you need but

[fallow laurel]

I speak of the challenge problems tbo

[cold needle]

if there are questions about the field generated by a cable or something

it's not gonna be fun

@fallow laurel the challenge problems have been defunct for a while, i do not think it is possible these days to find someone willing to check your solution

[fallow laurel]

For god's sake

At least we want an answer.

[cold needle]

?

[fallow laurel]

Well not to be rude

But we would want a final answer for each question

I would totally understand that the prove questions are not easy to do so

But for the computational ones , I find it odd.

I literally Dm'd many admins and yet I got no answer

I am not looking for problems or messing around

But it frustrates me.

[cold needle]

so the people who handle these problems are disjoint from the administration

[fallow laurel]

I am afraid so

[cold needle]

and unfortunately all of the people who handle these problems are not around anymore to verify solutions

so i am sorry

but this is how it is

there are no listed solutions

[fallow laurel]

It would seem

That trying to solve each one of them and sending their solution might be a valuable idea

As long as they archived it...

[fallow laurel]

No need to apologize though

[deep mango]

if you solve a problem and don't understand precisely why your solution works...

maybe you haven't solved the problem

at least for problems like the challenge ones we have here

[fallow laurel]

I believe that mine does

But I cannot be overconfident.

This is why I would ask whoever posed it.

Or at least someone who actually knows if what am I doing is actually legal or not , as from my point of view it is

But no one can be so sure

Wait , you're an analyist (check dm pls)

[cold needle]

unsolicited dms

are not good practice

[fallow laurel]

Should I send my attempt here? :)

[mortal oasis]

engineers beg to differ

[deep mango]

i mean for a math proof

[mortal oasis]

yea but then my joke doesnt work

[inner finch]

unsolicited dms 😋

I haven't actually got very many from this server

quite based

[torn willow]

I occasionally get unsolicited DMs for help with something

And I can't say no

[inner finch]

be based like me and straight up don't even check ur notifs

[torn willow]

Because I am not a no man

[inner finch]

:nice:

[toxic schooner]

same

lol

[vast surge]

Basically all my unsolicited dms are from this server. "Hey are you good at 9th grade algebra" type shit.

[pale orchid]

wait what

mirza is back

they revoked my ban

[deep mango]

undead from edd

[neat lintel]

hey can you help me solve this really simple algebra problem?? it's for highschool. let p(x1, ..., xk) = (p1(x), ..., pk(x) be a function R^k to R^k with polynomial components and non zero constant jacobian. show that p has an inverse with polynomial conponents

[pale orchid]

undeadza

[neat lintel]

thanks!!

i expect a solution in 10 minutes it's when my exam is due

(don't ban me this is sarcasm)

[sharp mulch]

#❓how-to-get-help

[neat lintel]

i don't need help it's an open ended discussion question

[sharp mulch]

#chill then

[pale orchid]

going by your profile pic, you need all the help you can get

[neat lintel]

you may be correct

[vast surge]

I'm in 9th grade plz find the roots in radicals of $x^{5}+3x-7$ I need this in 2 minutes for my test thnx

[fathom swallow]

Elliptic Curve of Rank 9001

[neat lintel]

,w roots x^5 + 3x - 7

[fathom swallow]

Results provided by WolframAlpha

Click here to refine your query online
Upgrade to WolframAlpha Pro!

Requested by TTerra#5291

[sharp mulch]

@ moderators

[vast surge]

It's a joke the Galois group is S_5 it's impossible

Please don't ban me

[neat lintel]

i don't understand what that means but i get the idea

ive just accepted that ill be lacking in algebra for a while

moth said something about galoos theory being geometric and this has rekindled interest

[light needle]

grothendiecks galois memes

[vast surge]

All you need to know about Galois theory is that the galois group of a field extension is the group of automorphisms such that the restriction of the automorphism to the base field is the identity, and that the splitting field of a polynomial is the smallest field you can factor the polynomial over.

[blazing pawn]

grothendieck galois memes is step 1 in the "galois theory is geometric"

riemann surfaces makes it very explicit

super pog

[inner finch]

😌 yup

w8 why were u banned

[pale orchid]

no, i mean you were banned by me

it's the running gag, apparently

they say i was kicked from being a mod cuz i banned you

[inner finch]

[pale orchid]

but i was never a mod, and there was never any mirza

smh

[inner finch]

📠

[cold needle]

📠, no 🖨️

[velvet dagger]

Wait but that was what happened

Don't try to rewrite history

You know what you did

[pale orchid]

i airbrushed mirza out of history

[hallow wasp]

baka

perfect form edd

[solemn sparrow]

Put a large (3^8 by 3^8) sierpinski carpet into conway's game of life and this was the end result.

It feels like for larger and larger inputs there should be some sense that the end states "converge," and when I run specific cases that does seem to happen, but I'm not sure if there's a way to actually make sense of it. Lots of neat behavior at the very least.

[vagrant kestrel]

end result as in it keeps repeating from there?

[lean mountain]

How could you know if it ever ends?

without running it, ofc

[solemn sparrow]

Doesn't every pattern reach a point where it's just oscillators and gliders going off to infinity

scuffed sierpinski triangles showing up in the construction of the next generation

[pale orchid]

does anyone know where or how i could procure this? Y. Nesterov. A method of solving a convex programming problem with convergence rate O(1/k2). In Soviet Mathematics Doklady, volume 27, pages 372–376, 1983

i can't even seem to find much about it in google

[neat lintel]

do you have the DOI or a link to it directly

i uh

know a website

dm'd

[pale orchid]

no doi, unfortunately

[neat lintel]

sadness

maybe you can search in russian

[pale orchid]

time to ping ann

@reef carbon send help pl0x

[velvet dagger]

@pale orchid I'll DM you

Wait do you want it in English?

[pale orchid]

if it exists in english

[reef carbon]

what happen

[pale orchid]

if not, i guess even in russian is ok

[pale orchid]

this happen

[reef carbon]

gimme a moment

[velvet dagger]

I'll show you how to access the Russian copy

And will look more for English

[pale orchid]

russian math is so occult

[reef carbon]

i think i got it

http://www.mathnet.ru/links/b70b14625c1748d396f859a1475239ce/dan46009.pdf

[pale orchid]

thanks!

[neat lintel]

time for edd to learn russian

inb4 edd already knows

[reef carbon]

[pale orchid]

i'll look at the equations and scratch my head

i'm already suffering enough with german, plz no

but i'll at least be able to cite the original sauce now

[neat lintel]

instead

make up a fake russian person, a fake journal, and a fake paper

if you ever need something but can't prove it

just cite it from that!

[pale orchid]

i prefer publishing 2 papers in tandem that reference each other for a missing proof

[cold needle]

this is a good problem

so now im glad i did ODE and saw inner products of the functional spaces

Wow

[neat lintel]

cauchy schwarz

[cold needle]

😌

yes

just a differnt inner product space is all

[neat lintel]

now prove CS for an arbitrary inner product space

[cold needle]

ok

[velvet dagger]

Does anything about Spivak's proof use that the space is R^n?

[cold needle]

no

you can probably replace any instance of inner product with the generic inner product and itll still work fine

i suppose i will write this to try

[velvet dagger]

Oh wait Spivak uses the discriminant proof

[cold needle]

yeah

[velvet dagger]

That one's cute

[cold needle]

yes

[velvet dagger]

Okay so it doesn't depend on the finite-dimensionality or anything

But it depends on being an inner product space over R

If it were C that'd be different

[cold needle]

ah cus of the conjugation

with the inner products

?

[velvet dagger]

Yup

[cold needle]

yeah im trying rn with general one and

i have weird feeling something isn't gonna cancel out when x=cy

if c is complex

cus now im gonna get c^2 on one side but |c|^2 on the other

or something

eek

yeah

exactly

equality forces c to be real

in which case everything is fine if we work over R

but not over C

how.. interesting

[velvet dagger]

Oh the x=cy isn't the problem

I think

Whether you have real or complex inner product

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[velvet dagger]

The problem is when you actually wanna play the quadratic equation game

Inner products commute in the real case but in the complex case they pull up a conjugate

[deep mango]

that is commuting...

[cold needle]

right this is correct

[velvet dagger]

Wut

[cold needle]

wdym ryc

[velvet dagger]

Ryc are you...

[deep mango]

commutative only means symmetric over real fields

[velvet dagger]

Oh shut up

Anyway

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[cold needle]

right

[velvet dagger]

And woo great quadratic equation we can do shit with discriminants

But if you expand that over C that doesn't quite work the way you want anymore

Err |c|

Err no I'm thinking real case

[cold needle]

hmm

[velvet dagger]

Okay it's late and I'm messing up I should officially write it out

But basically

<x,y> vs <y,x>

Is your issue

Let's actually write things out I'm being like Souganidis rn

[cold needle]

okey

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[cold needle]

mhm

[velvet dagger]

So yeah part of the problem is that you're gonna pull up the |c|^2 in front but also the middle terms don't really work too nicely anymore

[cold needle]

we get abs(c)^2 come out of the last term but the middle is yikes

twice the real part

[velvet dagger]

Yeah that's the key point, if you do it out fully I guess it's $-(c\langle y,x\rangle + \overline{c\langle y,x\rangle})$ which is straight fucked

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[cold needle]

pain

wait

[velvet dagger]

Now here's a trick though

Yeah?

[cold needle]

why is it cy x and then x cy in the middle terms earlier

oh wait

[velvet dagger]

Yeah

[cold needle]

bilinear this time and we cant just

[velvet dagger]

It's the cross terms

[cold needle]

flip it around

[velvet dagger]

Yup

[cold needle]

ok got it

[velvet dagger]

This is the one time in life

Where working over R is nicer

[cold needle]

lolll

[velvet dagger]

Between R and C pretty much what happens is

C has nicer algebraic properties

Namely algebraic closure

And that makes a lot of things tick better. e.g. Jordan form

And as far as analysis goes C is a lot nicer because being a complex linear map from C to C is harder than just being a real linear map

It's actually a geometric condition. And once you know it... all your functions are actually unicorns which shit rainbows

[neat lintel]

[cold needle]

ah

i see lol

[neat lintel]

daminark doing what i did yesterday

teaching metal

[velvet dagger]

But linear algebraically you're more often referencing the algebraic closure

However

Once inner products enter the picture

Then you have a problem

Namely that R is ordered so it's sorta "built in equipped" to handle the notion of positive definiteness

But over C, I'm pretty sure a bilinear form cannot be positive definite

(Prove it!)

[cold needle]

o

[neat lintel]

(think about it for me)

[velvet dagger]

Nah I already thought about it

It's true

[cold needle]

okay this is on the list of problems u told me to solve :petthecat:

[velvet dagger]

Honestly I don't think this is something you should table

[cold needle]

i have a handful to chew on :3 this is gud

[velvet dagger]

If you tilt your head to the side you can get it basically now

[cold needle]

o

[velvet dagger]

Between when I sent this message and the followup

I figured it out

[cold needle]

im not too sure what a bilinear form is

what is definition

[velvet dagger]

Map VxV->F which is bilinear

In the sense of, linear in each argument if you hold the other one still

[cold needle]

oh so inner product is bilinear form

for one example

[velvet dagger]

Yup

[neat lintel]

daminark is going to be the world's first multilinear algebra teacher

[velvet dagger]

Honestly if I taught a linear algebra class for math majors I'd just teach them multilinear stuff

[cold needle]

the funny thing is he told me to ask him to teach me multilinear algebra one of these days

[velvet dagger]

If they complain they can eat shit

[neat lintel]

metal prove this thing daminark mentioned

[velvet dagger]

Life is hard deal with it

[neat lintel]

i dont want to think about it

[velvet dagger]

TTerra literally just like

[neat lintel]

no i dont want to THINK

[velvet dagger]

Tilt your head to the side for 15 seconds

[neat lintel]

no brainpower

[velvet dagger]

It's C

[neat lintel]

[velvet dagger]

That's the hint

It's C

[cold needle]

positive definite means that whatever it spits out is geq 0

right

wait

what

[velvet dagger]

Somewhat stronger

[cold needle]

how does it look like in C

i only saw for R

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[velvet dagger]

So it says a bit more. You're real and then among real folk you're (strictly) positive

[cold needle]

i see

hmm

[neat lintel]

daminark it's too hrad i can't do it omg

(i did it)

[velvet dagger]

Okay thank fucking God

[neat lintel]

lol

[velvet dagger]

I almost thought you weren't trolling

[neat lintel]

of course im trolling

[velvet dagger]

It's like with Shamrock and the angle form

He was like yeah this is hard and I'm like fAMMM??????????!!!!!

Until I was like nah he's gotta be kidding

[neat lintel]

||0 < B(ix, ix) = i^2 B(x, x) = -B(x, x) < 0||

what did shamrock do

[velvet dagger]

(Metal fwiw don't feel bad that I was getting on TTerra's case lmao, he should know linear algebra cold so I will absolutely shame him for not figuring this out, but it's more new to you so it needn't be instant)

[cold needle]

okay

its kind of jank for me lol

[neat lintel]

the spoiler is a solution btw

[velvet dagger]

It's a trick that once you see it you'll be like ooooooooooooo

[cold needle]

ah

i didnt click the spoiler

[velvet dagger]

And then from now on if you see a similar problem you are morally obligated to figure it out since that trick is just in the back of your head

[neat lintel]

it's like the first thing you should try whenever you're in C

what's special about C?!?!?!!

[velvet dagger]

Yeah that's a hint

[cold needle]

well when i think C i think conjugating

[velvet dagger]

Well let's phrase it this way

Given a real vector space

[cold needle]

what is special about C hmm

[velvet dagger]

What is the obstruction to it being a complex vector space?

(Equivalently, if you give me a complex vector space, well I can forget that it's a complex vector space and just say it's a real vector space. What piece of information have I forgotten when I do that?)

As for shamrock

So you know the angle form yeah?

[neat lintel]

i actually have not heard of it

is it just the definition of angle

[velvet dagger]

$-\frac{y dx + x dy}{x^2 + y^2}$

[fathom swallow]

Sloth King Daminark

[neat lintel]

oh yeah that guy

closed but not exact

[velvet dagger]

Yeah I forget exactly what the context was but

Shamrock was pretending it was confusing

[neat lintel]

[velvet dagger]

And I was like bruuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[neat lintel]

COMPACT!

[velvet dagger]

I mean in his case it was blatant trolling

[cold needle]

hmm maybe i should try comparing just C with R^2 to begin with?

[velvet dagger]

Not quite

What I mean is more like

Okay with vector spaces what can you do?

[cold needle]

like what operations?

[velvet dagger]

Yeah

[neat lintel]

if you ever want to meme on shamrock just type COMPACT! dami

[cold needle]

i can add two vectors together and they will be in the space

[neat lintel]

works every time

[velvet dagger]

Yup, and?

[cold needle]

i can also multiply any vector by a constant c in the field and itll also be in the vector space

and i can take linear combos like thst

[velvet dagger]

Yup, and that's a key point

"by a constant in the field"

So if I go from R to C

What new capability do I have?

[cold needle]

hmm we can multiply not just by c but by c+id

i guess

[velvet dagger]

Yup, in particular we can scale by i

So that's a good life tip

[cold needle]

hmm

[velvet dagger]

If something's goes to shit when you swap from real vector spaces to complex vector spaces

Then the proof probably involves scaling by i

Since otherwise you're just performing stuff that would work on R as well

[cold needle]

scaling by i is like rotating everything by 90 degrees ccw maybe after i figure this out maybe there is some geometric visualization? idk

[velvet dagger]

Hmm... I wouldn't say geometry is the way to go about this bit

[cold needle]

o okey

[velvet dagger]

Not every vector space is thought about geometrically

[cold needle]

right

[velvet dagger]

And this is a thing that's true about every complex vector space

Bilinear forms fail at being positive definite

[neat lintel]

ell^1 is geometric

[velvet dagger]

ell^{\infty}

Honestly I don't even really think of l^1 as geometric anymore

l^2 mayyyybe

But that's about it

[neat lintel]

||oh this also serves as a reason you want conjugate linearity in one of the arguments ||

i've never thought about it too much

[velvet dagger]

Yup

[neat lintel]

cool

[cold needle]

i guess i can try doing B(iv,iv) maybe

and pulling out i in parts and seeing what happens

[neat lintel]

try it

[cold needle]

kind of a shot in the dark but lets see

i can pull out i from the first part

thats fine

but then i pull out -i from the second part

but

??? that doesn’t seem to help does it

[neat lintel]

bilinear

you'll get an i from the second argument as well, bilinear doesn't mean conjugate linear in one of the args

[cold needle]

o

i see

so now i get a minus 1 in front

which is problematic

[neat lintel]

why is it problematic?

[cold needle]

so if v is a nonzero vector

[neat lintel]

gimme deets

[cold needle]

and lets say that B(v,v) is some positive number maybe

hmm

iv is also nonzero vectorr

[neat lintel]

true

[cold needle]

so then now i got a negative number for B(iv,iv)

[velvet dagger]

Done

[neat lintel]

yeah metal that's it

[cold needle]

o

so this means that some where something will break

just find a v for which we get positive number from B

and scale by i

[velvet dagger]

Not only somewhere something

[neat lintel]

b explicit

[velvet dagger]

You'll find where it breaks in 2 steps

Try literally anything

If it's not a positive number you've already fucked it

If it is a positive number multiply by i

[cold needle]

right

then you still fucked up

so its fucked all over

[velvet dagger]

Yup

[cold needle]

makes sense

[velvet dagger]

So yeah that's why inner products are harder over C

[neat lintel]

metal go back and read the spoilered messages

[cold needle]

okay

[velvet dagger]

C doesn't play nicely with being positive definite because scaling by i twice fucks your shit up

And our solution is well we're no longer bilinear but "sesquilinear"

[cold needle]

right tterra i was thinking that there was a good reason we now put conjugate linear in second component

[neat lintel]

b-but daminark what if V = {0}?????????????????//

[cold needle]

it would remove the -1 problem

[velvet dagger]

What if your mom = {0}

[cold needle]

sesqulinear

[neat lintel]

fucky-linear

if i ever TA linear algebra i will give them this exercise

[velvet dagger]

Same yeah

[cold needle]

time to share this with my friends tomorrow

these are good problems

[neat lintel]

share now

[cold needle]

everyone is asleep

[neat lintel]

ok and? wkae them up

[cold needle]

if i share now they will never want to speak with me again

it is nearly 5am

[neat lintel]

sounds like their problem

[cold needle]

i agree

[devout nacelle]

Be there or be square.

[cold needle]

i will try to digest this information about how C is bad with inner products and bilinear forms

this kind of problems i didnt foresee earlier lol

[velvet dagger]

I have a lot of ideas on what I'd do if I TA linear algebra

[cold needle]

i thought C was magical

but this is very curious indeed

[neat lintel]

let me TA multivariable calculus so i can DG pill everybody

[velvet dagger]

This exercise, I also might have them prove Lee Ghandi's theorem

[neat lintel]

no

bad dami

[velvet dagger]

?

[neat lintel]

?

[velvet dagger]

It's a good exercise

[neat lintel]

metal was already annihilated once

be merciful

[cold needle]

wait when

oh no

[neat lintel]

nvm yeah daminark that;s a really good one

[cold needle]

nevermind

[velvet dagger]

TTerra I don't know what you're saying

[cold needle]

thats a good one dami

[neat lintel]

what's lee ghandi

's theorem

[velvet dagger]

Lee ghandi's mf nuts

[cold needle]

lee ghandi’s nutz

im gonna share this with my friends too

[velvet dagger]

Hahahaha

[cold needle]

totally wreck them

[velvet dagger]

I'm sad TTerra got that. I would've definitely got Metal the second time lol

[neat lintel]

i don't want metal to get absolutely blasted twice in a row

[velvet dagger]

Lmfao

This is how you learn

[neat lintel]

next time i wont say anything

be alert.

[cold needle]

i must be on my wits the whole time

this is like when the sensei always does something to student to keep them on their toes and never let them sink

[neat lintel]

you are living in a hunter-gatherer society in the african continent in the year 10000 bc and the DN tribe is trying to steal your food

[cold needle]

or whatever stereotype this is from karate kid or whatevr

[neat lintel]

[cold needle]

ninjago even

[neat lintel]

if you let the DN tribe steal your food it is all over

[velvet dagger]

Hah someone should code that game and then 5 minutes after starting it's a deez nuts joke

[neat lintel]

you might catch ligma

you do not have modern medicine

the reason i picked 10000 bc in the african continent is that there was a deadly disease called myra sweeping through it

[cold needle]

10000bc yes

[neat lintel]

joe kong wrote a great textbook on ancient african virology where you can read more about it

[velvet dagger]

See #math-discussion for why you must always have your wits about you

[compact tartan]

[vivid halo]

@velvet dagger what do you call people who do computations with holomorphic 1-forms all day?

[compact tartan]

nGroupoid

[vivid halo]

dz nuts

[devout nacelle]

[crystal stone]

PRAISE BE

THE MATH SUBJECT GRE

IS OPTIONAL AGAIN

[deep mango]

Wait really???

One of my friends has to sign up for one that's like a 4 hour drive away so that's good lol

[sharp mulch]

[narrow rock]

[narrow rock]

Irvine?

[crystal stone]

UT Austin

Texas A&M

Irvine

[narrow rock]

[crystal stone]

Looking like its optional at most schools

w00t

[narrow rock]

Princeton

[crystal stone]

What am I aiming for?

Well I found out if I go to UT Austin, I can join the water polo team

[narrow rock]

where did you find out about this

about the GRE

[crystal stone]

https://www.ma.utexas.edu/academics/graduate/admissions

https://www.math.tamu.edu/graduate/phd/appinfo-phd.html

It just says it on their website

[narrow rock]

oh rip you need to check each individual website

[crystal stone]

I did a year of College water polo, on medical red shirt

So I have 5 years of eligibility to play still

I can do one year red shirt

and 4 years of playing

[narrow rock]

LA did not update their admissions page

[torn willow]

Doesn't math gre still give you an advantage even if it's optional?

[crystal stone]

If you score well, then yes

[narrow rock]

if you can do integrals

[crystal stone]

I don't think it's the integral questions

It's the fuckin' linear algebra ones

Where you have to find the spanning or determinant so fast

Oh, also my Research Mentor fully committed to Irvine

So he's back there now

[neat lintel]

UC Irvine?

[crystal stone]

yUh

[narrow rock]

Wisconsin did not update their admissions page yet

[crystal stone]

I did research at irvine for 6-8 months

Under the direction of a professor

who moved away

[neat lintel]

I saw some chem videos of UC Irvine

[crystal stone]

but now he's back at UC Irvine

@narrow rock My research mentor says he makes more money from stock market

Than he does from his salary as a UC prof

[narrow rock]

michigan's page is impossible to navigate

northwestern did not update their page yet

rip.

[crystal stone]

How's your summer brofib

Any big plans?

[narrow rock]

it has been alright so far

doing an reu

[crystal stone]

How's the research lookin?

[narrow rock]

dont have a topic yet

[crystal stone]

what are you doing it in?

[narrow rock]

AT/AG

motivic htpy

[nimble shuttle]

brofibis good at algebra

tbh

oh I might be applying to northwestern

[blazing pawn]

is northwestern in chicago

[narrow rock]

northwestern looks great

[narrow rock]

pretty much

[blazing pawn]

should i apply to northwestern

[nimble shuttle]

you shouldn't so i don't have to compete with you

[blazing pawn]

[narrow rock]

one of my friends ended up going to northwestern

but the prof he wanted to work with moved the year he joined

moved to princeton and took all her grad students along

[nimble shuttle]

grad or undergrad

[narrow rock]

grad

[nimble shuttle]

pensive

im going to apply for grad at northwestern specifically to take your place

[blazing pawn]

True!

[bronze pelican]

I appreciate the ammount of mathematics going on in math VC over the past 2 weeks

[atomic hornet]

I may apply to northwestern

For cs doe

[nimble shuttle]

that's super competitive isn't it

[atomic hornet]

grad school is competitive.

[deep mango]

Northwestern is really underrated I think

It looks like it should be considered one of the top schools, at least for analysis / dynamics

Idk about other stuff

[nimble shuttle]

oh you were talking about grad school mb

yeah I talked to a college counselor who said it was a very good school

[leaden torrent]

is it underrated?

i think everyone knows its good

maybe its less talked about on the internet since its specialties are less algebraic

(though its very good at algebra too)

USNWR is bad at a field ranking!?

who woulda thunk it.

[narrow rock]

northwestern has really good algebra

[sharp mulch]

Northwestern is a good school

[leaden torrent]

yes but not prob a top 2 (quote slim) like it is in dynamics

[narrow rock]

it's probably top 10

[leaden torrent]

(apparently, idk dynamics)

[narrow rock]

or 15

off the top of my head there's John Francis, Ben Antieau and Tamarkin

and there's Zaslow if youre into fukaya cats

[sharp mulch]

Boston

[narrow rock]

NYU?

does ucla have dynamics?

[sharp mulch]

UCLA has Tim Austin

Slime doesn't like Boston type dynamics

[narrow rock]

slimevexus

[velvet dagger]

Did someone say dynamics

Also what's Boston type dynamics?

Ah KAM stuff I guess

[narrow rock]

boston dynamics

have you seen the robot dogs

[velvet dagger]

Yeah none of these people are that interesting tbh

Glen Hall mayyyyyyybe?

Devaney mayyyyyyyybe?

[atomic hornet]

Suggondi snuts maybe?

[velvet dagger]

Yeah I mean idgaf about celestial mechanics but I'm assuming not every paper is on that

I mean look at the first three in Glen Hall

Ah yeah eh

Not that good anymore tbh

Devaney's being into complex dynamics seems alright, but I feel like most of the time when you see teaching listed as an interest it tends to be the main thing

Also haven't seen the papers so idk

Yeah this group isn't that good

UChicago is the place on my end lmao

Eskin, Wilkinson, and Filip are 😍

[narrow rock]

yup slim get into chicago

[deep mango]

how dare you

[deep mango]

i mostly mean for undergrad, it's not severely underrated for grad but it should be considered one of the top few places in certain subjects instead of fucking pr*nceton and h*rvard as usual

[narrow rock]

N*U

[ancient flame]

UC D*vis

[rose dock]

UC B*rkley

[deep mango]

[narrow rock]

P*E

[ancient flame]

P*E

[deep mango]

pie.

[narrow rock]

a*alysis

M*th

[limber perch]

****ysis

[narrow rock]

moth

b*uv

[deep mango]

alg*braic """""""geometry""""""

[narrow rock]

b*g shaq

[sharp mulch]

[deep mango]

ange

guess where i walked by today

[sharp mulch]

💁 🦋 is this a sense of humor

[narrow rock]

C*icago

[sharp mulch]

Did you walk by Evans

[deep mango]

matcha icecream place

[sharp mulch]

Oh I see

Matcha place is good

[deep mango]

it was early so it wasnt open

[sharp mulch]

I had a matcha red bean smoothie yesterday

[deep mango]

they have a bunch of new stuff

[sharp mulch]

It opens at 1

[deep mango]

on the wall

[limber perch]

abusing butterflies is not humorous at all

[sharp mulch]

Which new things?