serious-discussion

[heavy pagoda]

If less than 50% press blue, people that press blue have a 50% chance of dying and it’s 10% chance of dying if you pressed red

[glass peak]

Yeah lol its the prisoners paradox but someone fucked it up and theres no reason not to take one of the options (game theoretically anyway)

[steep mountain]

yeah its a tough question, your essentially risking the fact that enough stupid people and people with good will are pressing blue. Red is a obvious choice, but it is also not a obvious choice because you might be playing a part in saving 50%.

[heavy pagoda]

But if more than 50% press blue no one dies

[glass peak]

But youre also kinda not because pressing blue is essentially playing russian roulette with half the bullets loaded

[unborn trellis]

i mean in this scenario there is also no reason to press anything but blue

[glass peak]

You could also just... not press blue

[rapid valve]

i don't wanna live in a world in which all the people who pressed blue died anyway so blue is just better

[glass peak]

And if you dont believe half of the world are idiots youre just dead

[unborn trellis]

like in the prisoners dilemma, if all parties do what is mutually beneficial, then the reward is still less than if you tattled and the other person remained silent. in this scenario if everyone cooperates you just get the best outcome

[shy knot]

Interesting; how are you characterizing the people that don't press blue?

[rapid valve]

i'd rather be dead than live with all the people who pressed blue dead

im sure it will always be a significant part of the population

im sure my mom will press blue

[steep mountain]

I think it depends on how you approach the dilemma, there is many reasons why people might press blue outside of missunderstanding.

[fallen mango]

what if everyone presses red?

[heavy pagoda]

By playing around with the numbers you can make this interesting

[rapid valve]

and many children

[glass peak]

Then everyone lives, nothing happens

[steep mountain]

If you have a lot of loved ones who could, missunderstand the question, including children and elderly, you might argue its your moral duty to press blue and try to save them.

[rapid valve]

i know everyone will never press red

[fallen mango]

so its just a regular button? where is it located

[shy knot]

I would really like to know why you wouldn't want to live without the presence of those that would press blue.

[glass peak]

And if you dont think your loved ones are stupid and you killed yourself presuming their inability to read thats morally correct?

[rapid valve]

because i don't want them to die for no reason and i love some of them

[unborn trellis]

i think this is a good point but it kind of demonstrates why the question is stupid. it's not a game-theoretically interesting question, but instead a philosophically interesting one that engages with external aspects

[glass peak]

This isnt some "Stupid people deserve to die thing" its just that like, pressing blue is the bad choice

[unborn trellis]

something tells me mr. beast wasn't posting it because he thought it would be philosophically engaging though

[silent junco]

yeah i mean in reality id probably press blue

[steep mountain]

ngmi is right tho, game theoretically its obvious red is the choice, but philosophically its not obvious.

[rapid valve]

pressing blue is only the bad choice if you assume every human is a rational agent maximizing its own chances to live

which is not true

[shy knot]

I see, so losing all of those people would bring you to wish death for yourself, right?

We could use a philosophical discussion channel, perhaps 🤔

[rapid valve]

it's like the prisoner's dilemma but on a greater scale

the best choice collecrively is not the nash equilibrium

[glass peak]

No its like the prisoners dilemma but wrong lol

I do think its a morally interesting question but I do find it very hard to justify not pressing red

[rapid valve]

wait what

i thought you were saying the opposite, oh okay

[rapid valve]

i don't see dying as a bad thing to experience

because here it seems like and instant painless death

[shy knot]

Neither do I.

[unborn trellis]

okay if you press the blue button but fewer than 50% do as well you get ripped apart by wolves or something

bam instantly more interesting

[shy knot]

I think life is, at its core, a "problematic" phenomenon. Without life, nothing would matter, whereas with life, there is born the possibility for things to be good/bad from the perspective of that living entity. Life literally creates the possibility for phenomena to be problematic.

[latent edge]

If you lose then you experience slow death and each second you beg to finish it all. Now pick blue if you want

[rapid valve]

i'd press red because im a coward who fears pain more than anything

[shy knot]

Fears suffering, you mean, or no?

[glossy marlin]

if a majority of people press red you likely have more enemies than loved ones, and you have to make sure your loved ones press red and enemies press blue, but if a majority of people are enemies of a majority of people they´ll probably press blue and nothing will happen, except you, having pressed red, will stick out and be rejected from social circles and such (if it´s recorded)
if humanity is more kind than not, it´ll also be blue and nothing will happen.

[rapid valve]

no, physical pain

[stark trench]

Ah, that's interesting.

[ionic wraith]

It’s not about an idiot thing, collective cultures would not hesitate at all to pick the blue button. Guess this is what decades/centuries of individualist brainrot does to people

It’s fundamentally anti civilization and anti humanity to press red even if you guaranteed ur own life persist

[unborn trellis]

Lol

[shy knot]

I consider myself lucky that I have an appreciation for physical pain up to a certain degree.

[latent edge]

lol what

[stark trench]

Surely most folk in this discussion are being facetious, no?

[glass peak]

I mean it just isnt though, and like I am a communist so I dont even think that it is an individualism thing

[heavy pagoda]

If you have a civilisation in which half the population would kill themselves for no reason is that even a W at that point

[shy knot]

I'm not . . .

[stark trench]

I think she's quoting somebody.

[rapid valve]

maybe subconsciously

[stark trench]

It's like a copypasta or whatever the kids say these days.

[glass peak]

Theres just actually no downside to choosing red, its not like if one person chooses red someone dies, its not the prisoner dilemma

[stark trench]

Do you vote?

[rapid valve]

the downside is that other people die

[zealous garden]

Choosing red is the obvious answer

[latent edge]

I guess even if you choose red there's a chance it becomes 50/50 in which case it's inconclusive

[glass peak]

Blue is Russian Roulette, red is just, not doing that

[ionic wraith]

Idk it seems a message that ur cool with at most 49.9% dying

[stark trench]

They will die regardless of whether you press your red button with almost near certainty.

[undone imp]

@stone ferry https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Hizb_ut-Tahrir.svg

[rapid valve]

like if there is 1 extra vote for red than blue then on average of 1 kill per red button pressed

[zealous garden]

Red means it's like 50/50 someone else dies, blue means it's like 50/50 I die

[glass peak]

I really hope this isnt about to be some online leftist no real leftist votes nonsense, but yes I do

[steep mountain]

I am not.

[stark trench]

Oh, why (do you vote)?

[heavy pagoda]

Yeah surely ban this person

[stark trench]

It is relevant to the thought experiment, I promise.

[heavy pagoda]

This is surely a discord tos violation given that they operate in these countries

[stark trench]

It has nothing to do with leftism or whatever.

[zealous garden]

Maybe I'll stop voting

[rapid valve]

only if you see the act of killing as strictly individual

[glossy marlin]

I mean... if you can give them jobs and sell them dozens of super expensive treatments that only occasionally work, you can make a massive amount of money (provided there´s no revolution or whatever)
but it´s not a W overall.

[rapid valve]

but i think that people who press read have a shared responsibility in killing the people who pressed blue

[shy knot]

I think it's a W for them and for the rest of us that wouldn't suffer emotionally as a result of their loss. The only possible negative consequences of a red push would be the emotional suffering of those that remain alive, and political, economic, and productive stagnation as a result of losses in the workforce and (possibly) in political leadership.

[zealous garden]

Did I kill them, or did they fail to save themselves?

[stark trench]

Not really. Even if the act of killing is collective, your ability to prevent, deter, or change whether a collective murder occurs is quite slim.

[stark trench]

You are not a collective of 8 billion people. You do not have control over the actions of 8 billion people, and you shouldn't act as if you do.

[undone imp]

ok nhail is on flight <@&268886789983436800>

[steep mountain]

It is being discussed.

[rapid valve]

hm yes this is why i didn't vote originally but i prefer to believe otherwise

[undone imp]

alr

[rapid valve]

i irrationally consider myself important in a vote

[dreamy crag]

Wait what is happening?

[undone imp]

nothing ignore

[glass peak]

Because while voting will never bring about true change, it is ridiculous to position that all options are equally bad. And like especially in local elections where this stuff really has the biggest impact on your day to day life, I would rather go for the option that causes the least harm

Now I can see an argument that blue is the harm reduction argument here. I understand the sentiment that some people are morons and as such wont pick the not die option, so people who arent idiots should pick the blue option to protect those. But this is an utterlly collosal gamble, when there is simply the option to just... not die right in front of you

[dreamy crag]

Oh ok

[stark trench]

You probably should, yeah. It's not worth it.

[heavy pagoda]

Someone has their pfp as the flag of an ectremist organisation

[dreamy crag]

Ah, yikes

[shy knot]

On that note, we need to update U+1F1E6 U+1F1EB . . . screw the UN's position . . .

[glass peak]

This is essentially "You can play russian roullette or not, but if enough people choose to play we'll run out of guns and call the whole thing off"

[stark trench]

Okay, I guess what I want to ask is why do you vote for a good candidate instead of just going to the polls and making a little christmas tree? What's bad about voting for a bad candidate?

Even in local elections, the likelihood you decide the election is incredibly slim. Like, enormously so.

[zealous garden]

Which is in itself, the biggest game of Russian roulette

[steep mountain]

Thats true, but it doesnt change the argument.

[rapid valve]

i see voting as a ritual more than anything

[stark trench]

The reason I'm asking is because if you vote because you think you have some obligation to behave in a way that's good if people *collectively do, at least the majority of folk, then it's completely sensible that you'd endorse @rapid valve 's position and press your blue button.

[zealous garden]

Only vote third party

[radiant sparrow]

Can you explain the context? Scrolling up a bit doesn't seem to enlighten me

[unborn trellis]

sure but it's kind of a naive notion of collective good in pressing blue

[stark trench]

If you're like, voting for likely candidates, stop that. It's silly. There is almost no situation where it is worthwhile to do so.

Yes, if you vote, please vote for third-party candidates.

[rapid valve]

i think most people who vote have an almost spiritual relationship to it

[shy knot]

It's just the shahada fr . . . that's the text . . .

[glass peak]

I understand it, I know what theyre saying but again I just dont think this is really the same. Like I said there is the option presented to just, not kill yourself

[rapid valve]

it's like throwing a prayer

[stark trench]

Yeah, but almost certainly someone will not take that option.

I don't think that makes it acceptable to just... let them die, if we can control it!

[glass peak]

More than one thing can be true at a time

[stark trench]

In fact, probably more than 2 people will not select that option! More than how many yous there are!

[stark trench]

I think so also.

I'm in favor of mandatory voting, though.

[undone imp]

so person enter discussy with arabic username and extremist resembling pfp, discussy ppl blow up, they want to vanish em but then mods say we diiscussing it then i find this and it said resembles terrorism symbol so i post. But i think there might be no bad faith

[unborn trellis]

i see the altruistic pov here

you're totally right on that front

[rapid valve]

i vote because i think there is something special about my vote

[shy knot]

Read the flag then read this: أَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّه، وَأَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ اللَّه

[rapid valve]

understandable yeah, but you can't force people to vote for who they really want in power

[stark trench]

That's pretty crazy. You could be spending that time doing something else, like political campaigning or whatever.

[rapid valve]

most likely scrolling on instagram

[unborn trellis]

every day i see the jehovahs witnesses stationed around my campus and i think about why they aren't at soup kitchens instead

[stark trench]

Sure, yeah, it's just I think it solves the problem of the most rational folk being compelled not to vote.

[heavy pagoda]

This flag is illegal to display in a non-educational context in several European countries

[rapid valve]

i think that voting brings me more mentally than it takes

[heavy pagoda]

Therefore it is surely against discord tos

[unborn trellis]

and it's an operation too, they always have two people at the stands and they regularly swap pairs out with new ones

[glossy marlin]

-# two options: "tangerine man" or "none of the above"

[stark trench]

Probably because it is more efficient to prevent people from suffering in Hell for all of eternity than to help homeless folk.

[rapid valve]

voting makes me feel important and thus my time is not completely lost

[dreamy crag]

I’d be cautious with it, and make them change it

[elfin bramble]

They're shift working at the soup kitchen. Duh!

[unborn trellis]

i notice as well that literally no one ever talks to them, and they're always smiling and talking to each other

[zealous garden]

Europe isn't real

[dreamy crag]

But I’m also not a mod

[heavy pagoda]

Also China and Russia too

[stark trench]

Maybe not so efficient, then.

[dreamy crag]

True!!

[unborn trellis]

it's like they station two people to have a pretense of engagement lol

[rapid valve]

and yeah there's nothing rational about it but im openly irrational

[zealous garden]

Isn't discord banned there

[halcyon aurora]

this is my least favorite sect of the religion

[zealous garden]

Tfw Discord is against Discord TOS in Russia, what will Discord do about this

[rapid valve]

so yeah i'd press blue even if people i love didn't just because it makes me feel good e

[steep mountain]

What if 50% of people voted already and its currently a 70% lead for red. This time everyone is allowed to publicly discuss what to do before the voting continues, surely a invite to press blue and save people would be pushed, but surely many people would argue to let them die, it is their responsibility after all, what would you, realistically do? and would your position change?

[unborn trellis]

"Will the Suffering End?"

That's what they print on the pamphlets lol

[stark trench]

When my brother was a Catholic, he wondered why we didn't abort every child if it were true that aborted children went to Heaven and almost everyone else would go to Hell.

[zealous garden]

That one is interesting, so what are we actually betting on s.t. X% of the remaining 50% can turn the 70% into 50%

[glass peak]

If it could be discussed however surely word can get out that red is the "Nothing happens" button. But yeah blue in this situation likely makes more sense because you can convince enough people to press it "just in case"

[zealous garden]

Like a 75% blue rate?

[elfin bramble]

What the? I've seen several JW pamphlets and never seen that but I don't think you're making it up either. That's funny

[unborn trellis]

reminds me of the orthodox jews in the NYC subway that will wrap a tallit around your arm if you look jewish and force you to pray with them lol

[heavy pagoda]

Is this a catholic teaching

[rapid valve]

i believed people just choose whether they go to heaven or hell

[dreamy crag]

That sounds horrific omg

[heavy pagoda]

I thought it was the case that they believed the souls of the unbaptised were stuck in limbo

[unborn trellis]

horrific is perhaps hyperbolic but it's definitely uncomfortable

[elfin bramble]

I was raised catholic and thought similar thoughts all the time

[unborn trellis]

idk if they do it any more though

[steep mountain]

70+epsilon

[heavy pagoda]

If you believe this it is no longer an issue

[dreamy crag]

70+$\mathbf{+_{on}}$

[stark trench]

I remember when I was walking around with a book that said "HOW TO OPERATE MICROSCOPES" and all of a sudden a bunch of atheists wearing tuxedos came and started praying to Charles Darwin with me and singing in a wailing tone "WE HAVE LOGICALLY INFERRED THE NONEXISTENCE OF AN OMNIPOTENT, OMNIBENEVOLENT, OMNISCIENT DEITY USING FACTS AND REASON."

[fathom swallow]

pinkishnova cgt queen

[stark trench]

Yeah, I mean, if people can rationally choose to go to Hell, I'm not sure what's so bad about it.

[rapid valve]

the bad thing is that god is not there

[zealous garden]

My powers of estimation remain impeccable

[stark trench]

Well, it's not bad if you dislike G-d, no?

[rapid valve]

and since god is good, this is bad

[stone ferry]

Okay I understand now but for a sec I thought mods were being pinged to report me for flying

[stark trench]

Ah, I see. It's a sort of eudaimonistic view.

[halcyon aurora]

Honestly I was a little confused myself

[dreamy crag]

I thought the exact same thing

Very silly

[steep mountain]

we're sending a missle to bring down the plane immedietly, thanks.

[zealous garden]

Omnipotence is in itself practically a non-starter with classical parodoxes like the unliftable boulder

[steep mountain]

no nhails will be flying today.

[stark trench]

Yeah, this view is very common.

[rapid valve]

i wasn't thinking that back when i was christian tho, i was pretty glad to have the option ot go to hell just in case

[glass peak]

I mean it kinda makes sense from their POV. If you truly believe that if one accepts Jesus as the lord and saviour, and doing so will bring you eternel perfect after life, isnt the morally correct thing to do to spread that word?

I agree they should be doing that, and its certainly within the teachings of the bible (though idk what the witnesses really believe lol), but I do actually understand it from their perspective, horrible as that view is and how much damage its caused

[rapid valve]

some might say i was a bad christian

[stark trench]

There are pretty strong, consistent, and reasonable formulations of omnipotence that don't have this problem. There are also good (read: better) dialethic (paraconsistent) ones.

[zealous garden]

I don't know these fancy words, but I prefer the view that you must place restrictions on which actions an omnipotent being would ever actually take

[rapid valve]

if you say that only god is omnipototent and that god's will can't be contradictory, then it solves this particular problem

but other problems emerge, but since they are less concrete i think nobody will care

[zealous garden]

So place restrictions on which actions God can take, I feel like that's not omnipotent

[halcyon aurora]

the top view (I could be wrong!) is true of all christians who perceive a willing audience. The problem is when that view becomes manipulated into coercive behavior, with any kind of tactic.

[zealous garden]

Because they can't do that thing

[glass peak]

Could you elaborate? Im aware of like that dialethism is but I dont know anything about it. Accepting that something can be true and false is admittedly a hard pill to swallow

[rapid valve]

if god is omnipotent, god can solve this paradox

it's lowkey a good argument

[maiden panther]

I mean you can always lean into paraconsistent interpretations of omnipotence. So, like Graham Priest.
Or, like, re-interpret omnipotence as having the power to do anything that is logically possible.
It's a matter of re-definition.

Wittgenstein would argue it is a problem with our language; and thus, it is a linguistic paradox.

[stark trench]

Jc Beall is a better reference!

[stark trench]

Yeah, but it leaves the basic problem that G-d, like, if G-d wanted to, G-d could bring about contradictions. It just happens that G-d doesn't.

Then there are other problems like: why? Why does G-d have a consistent will, if there's nothing degenerate or bad about inconsistency?

[steep mountain]

sucks that none of the arguments matter to a religious person cause "god works in ways we dont understand" is a easy refutation

[glass peak]

I mean, is it? Its contradictory, but sure maybe you accept that somethings can be true and false, but then like where are we? Whats left to talk about

[stark trench]

The basic response here is: okay, why do you believe in G-d then? Why do you believe G-d has attributes A, B, etc.?

[steep mountain]

how can you say for certainty that any inconsistency you found is simple not just, your lack of understanding of a higher truth after all?

[stark trench]

Like if your response is to just throw your hands up, then it seems like it applies equally to anything you believe (about G-d.)

[glossy marlin]

the ways some people talk about religions sound like people read criticisms against narcissists and interpreted them as religions.

[glass peak]

Its the same as that famous christian guy whos name im blanking that essentially came up with the interpretation "God is all of us" (which is horribly reductive but still). Like I dont really see this as an argument because its irrefutable, and not in the way of it being a very good argument

Like how string theory is kinda sucky physics

[stark trench]

Yeah, there are views under which it is both true and false that G-d can create a stone G-d cannot lift, similar to the liar paradox.

[steep mountain]

Its the whole issue with Skeptical theism.

[glass peak]

Yeah but like, so what? You accept this and what argument is left to be had?

[hidden bough]

I would ask I guess why it should have to be falsifiable

[maiden panther]

God's existence itself is hard to state.
IN a world, where solipsism as an idea cannot be denied fully, i.e., we cannot definitively prove the existence of others (i mean common people. This problem is called 'problem of other minds'), extending the proof of existence to God seems hard.
You cannot definitively prove it. Claiming it is outside our scope is an easy way out.

Again, the limits of our language are where we draw the limits of our understanding. And things like consciousness, and God exist beyond it.

[stark trench]

Skeptical theism also presents super basic metaethical problems. I noticed this a long time back and apparently Sharon Street noticed it about a year and a half before me, back in 2014, which sucks.

[glass peak]

I guess it doesnt but then theres no discussion to be had, and its somewhat meaningless. I can tell you theres a thing which can do all things, even those that it cant, and you dont need to be able to prove me wrong. The sensible thing to do then is to walk away, because so what?

[hidden bough]

Weren't you a young child a year and a half after 2014

[stark trench]

Yeah.

[maiden panther]

Wittgenstein famously declared:
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent"

If God is truly something which we cannot speak about, we have no choice but to be silent about it. Well that's all according to him. To him, theology is just a misunderstanding of language.

[rapid valve]

it's just saying your mortal logic cannot equal god's since they are omnipotent

[hidden bough]

But young child as in like pre-kindergarten

[stark trench]

Nah, I was like definitely post-kindergarten.

[hidden bough]

Sure but the point of the claim isn't really to facilitate discussion is it

[glass peak]

Yeah but again I dont really accept this lol, this is meaningless

[stark trench]

Yeah. It's true that G-d is omnipotent.

[glass peak]

Wait how old are you? I thought you were a good bit older than me

[maiden panther]

Why is 'god' being censored?

[stark trench]

I prefer it written that way.

[steep mountain]

I suppose each religion has found their answer to this, like their holy book being the word of god.

[maiden panther]

Personal belief ?

[stark trench]

I'm of an indeterminate age. Depends on who asks and when. Likewise for my nationality.

[hidden bough]

I think there's possibly some confusion about motivation here

[maiden panther]

Are you like those kinds of people who think that God cannot be spoken of, or talked about, so you write 'G-d'?

[flat harbor]

i dont like it when ppl make assumptions based on my age. like ppl will say "well blo is 45" and make assumptions based on that

[stark trench]

Well, I'm surely talking about G-d.

Otherwise how could I say we can't talk about G-d?

[rapid valve]

It's not a proof, but you can't disprove it either

[flat harbor]

theres a type of ppl out there who type yhwh out instead

[rapid valve]

It's the whole pount of faithlol

[stark trench]

This sucks.

[flat harbor]

kinda lame if u ask me

[hidden bough]

Why is that worse than g-d

[rapid valve]

What does that mean

[steep mountain]

For me this is precisely why its meaningless to discuss god.

[hidden bough]

You might have heard it said/written yahweh instead

[flat harbor]

hebrew name for the judeochristian god

[rapid valve]

No

Oh shit

Okay it's really not pronounced as it's written for me

[hidden bough]

I believe the original point was that it wasn't pronounced

[stark trench]

I avoid writing G-d because I think there's something pretty cool about treating the name with certain norms of respectfulness, etc. The problem is revived if you write the Tetragammon instead.

[steep mountain]

whether you come to your own satisfactory conclusion about god or his nature, why does it matter if we do? not just from a practical standpoint, but existentially why does it matter if we do somehow reach a conclusion?

[hidden bough]

Which does make the above somewhat ironic

[halcyon aurora]

It's actually a corruption of a sentence tbf, but yeah it's being cut out

[stark trench]

We forgot the pronunciation of the Tetragammon. At some point the pronunciation was known, but it was certainly something kinda weird.

[flat harbor]

it feels boundary cultural appropriation to read it tbh

[rapid valve]

That's why everyone in discussy censor fr*nch /j

[maiden panther]

The thing isn't about utility or value or existential significance.
It is just curiosity, ig, to phrase it that way.
People spend hours and hours trying to do things they have no reason to do. In "Myth of Sisyphus", Albert Camus describes the Myth of Sisyphus (duh), but refashions it in an absurdist sense; even if human life is meaningless, we 'must imagine Sisyphus happy.'

[halcyon aurora]

separate discussion for another temps I think

[hidden bough]

I think a lot of jews pronounce it this way so idk that I agree with this per se

But I also could just be gravely misinformed

[flat harbor]

i have no idea on this so ill take whoevers word for it

[hidden bough]

That makes sense

[stark trench]

I have this image in my head of some random bozo giving the correct pronunciation of the Tetragammon and then getting smited or whatever.

[steep mountain]

But why is it interesting? what are we curious about if its a problem with no good conclusion? It feels like we're just trying to disprove false religious conclusions rather than trying to reach anything new or worth thinking about

[stark trench]

"We try pronouncing the Tetragammon for TEN HOURS to see if we get smited (IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE) (YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT MY RABBI FATHER SAID) (NOT RABBINICAL)"

[flat harbor]

"yeewoo" ⚡ ⚡⚡

[maiden panther]

You are looking at it the wrong way.
Why do people spend hours trying to analyze ethically the shooting of the Albatross (Samuel Taylor Coleridge, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner) or Waiting for Godot's central dilemma, or Gatsby's conclusion, even if they do not provide any good insights?
Some people get stuck, some people regress, some people make conspiracies, and some are more traditional.
We cannot assign adjectives to things we do not understand, and claim it is definitive.

I mean, why are people so invested in fictional pieces?
(I mean the existence/validity of fictional characters, of dreams, and of virtual reality is a separate issue on its own)
But, if we assume to be fakes, then, our investment is in, by that sense, meaningless, and whatever plot resolution they get, it should by extension should not matter to us.
Yet, a lot of people are invested. They are moved deeply by things that supposedly 'do not exist in reality.'

[stark trench]

Lots of people's actions and other beliefs are informed by their religious beliefs, so it is important to think about those and challenge our religious beliefs and others'.

[steep mountain]

I mean it almost always feels like a discussion about epistemology when it comes to god.

[flat harbor]

i wonder if theres a non cultural curiosity reason to be interested in gnosticism in the 21st century

[stark trench]

@blazing pawn you are our resident Jew, please give your analysis.

[maiden panther]

God can be analyzed in so many ways, metaphysics, ethics, phenomenology, teleology, theology, idk.
Even logic.

It depends largely on what kind of people you interact with. That is the deciding factor of where your discussion would be oriented.

[inner canopy]

I think it's pretty neat

[halcyon aurora]

There are christians that examine modern gnosticism, unless you mean that as cultural gnosticism

[stark trench]

I have never been Jewish, this may surprise you, although I have studied Jewish theology a bit.

[flat harbor]

thats interesting sure

[stark trench]

Yeah, it's relevant to the history of Christianity.

[flat harbor]

iguess i shuldve said more as "a spiritual reason" or smth along those lines

[halcyon aurora]

This is sometimes a rebuttal of like, "My brain made me do it" type reasoning, people justify all kinds of harmful mental health this way for instance

[inner canopy]

there definitely are christian sects in the levant that on some level are gnostic I believe

[flat harbor]

iguess this also connects to a more general question

of what value u can get from a religion when there isnt a community around it

[inner canopy]

Take the Mandaeans

[steep mountain]

Fictional pieces are recognized to be fiction, in this case we are discussing the reality of something.

I do not mind discussing god under "what if" assumptions.

But it is almost certainly just that, what if.

[maiden panther]

That was merely an analogy.
God is most certainly an 'what if.' You can put an 'what if' on anything on the world.
And claim its validity. It just depends on how clever you are.

[steep mountain]

I do indeed put a what if on anything, but im not gonna dig that whole rn.

[inner canopy]

dig that whole

[flat harbor]

there clearly has to be a difference between how a christian interfaces with their religion to say a revival druidism person

[steep mountain]

A discussion on nihilism almost always ends in disaster in public spaces.

even philosophy servers push against it

[maiden panther]

(Meaning is in the eye of the beholder)

[halcyon aurora]

tbh I feel this way about extended "is God real" discussion online.

[inner canopy]

I don't see how we went from theological debate to nihilism

[halcyon aurora]

so good we got that out of the way

[steep mountain]

lets leave it at that xd

its not something im comfortable discussing here anw.

[inner canopy]

okay

[verbal quest]

https://tenor.com/view/owen-wilson-progress-making-wedding-crashers-gif-10069195

@subtle magnet
https://www.reuters.com/world/india/modis-bjp-set-surprise-gains-india-state-elections-exit-polls-show-2026-04-29/

wait
the gif and the article are unrelated

[subtle magnet]

They were over yesterday by IST lol.

[verbal quest]

c'mon man, if I wanted to calculate time zones, I would join a math server
sheesh

[subtle magnet]

If they win in West Bengal, it would hopefully lead to some change. I don't like the party and most stereotypically intellectual Bengalis don't either but there is a growing mass of braindead youths.

Bengal was the place to be in India back in the 80s. Remained like that till date.
-# not as a place to be but like it was in the 80s.

[burnt ledge]

if the collective agrees to pressing the blue button (reminder: this is the real world) pressing the red button only says "i am willing to kill you if it serves me"

[stark trench]

Or "my button press has no impact on whether you die."

[glossy marlin]

-# conservatives and big companies already say that

[unborn trellis]

If the collective agrees on pressing the blue button then I'm pressing the blue button lol

[silent junco]

im pressing the green button

cant believe yall have been stunlocked on a stupid mr beast hypothetical thats probably a promo for some dumb new game show for 2+ hours

[magic python]

Oh is this the button conversation

[glossy marlin]

-# blue pink white pink blue button, do you press it

[latent edge]

I'd destroy the buttons and move on

[steep mountain]

its a interesting hypothetical.

I dont think it was mr beast? i swear i saw the poll on twitter and it was someone else.

[silent junco]

im taking the piss dw

[azure dirge]

How serious is this discussion chat compared to the other?

[magic python]

[silent junco]

uhhh very serious

[ionic wraith]

oh damn I didn't know this shit would go for this long

[magic python]

Depends I suppose

Like what would it do

[ionic wraith]

yeah mods were good to make the #serious-discussion because I have a habit of sparking really looooooong convos

so did some analysis clustering global trade data that revealed effectively global north and global south countries (I then repeated clustering on the first level of the global south to obtain a 2nd level global north countries and repeated this process two more times). Showed this earlier but harpz showed errors so I fixed them and here's the updated version

Global North Lvl 1 Countries: United Arab Emirates, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Switzerland, China, Germany, Denmark, Spain, France, United Kingdom, Hong Kong, China, Ireland, India, Italy, Japan, Korea, Republic of, Netherlands, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Kingdom of, Sweden, Singapore, Türkiye, United States of America, Rest of the World

Global North Lvl 2 Countries: Angola, Argentina, Austria, Bulgaria, Bahrain, Kingdom of, Chile, Colombia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Egypt, Finland, Greece, Croatia, Hungary, Indonesia, Israel, Iraq, Kuwait, the State of, Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Malaysia, Nigeria, Norway, New Zealand, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Serbia, Slovak Republic, Thailand, Chinese Taipei, Ukraine, Viet Nam, South Africa

Global North Lvl 3 Countries: Afghanistan, Antigua and Barbuda, Anguilla, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Sudan

Global North Lvl 4 Countries: Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belarus, Côte d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Algeria, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea, Guyana, Iran, Jordan, Kenya, Lebanese Republic, Latvia, Libya, Morocco, Macao, China, Mauritius, Oman, Panama, Peru, Pakistan, Slovenia, Tunisia, Uganda, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of

Global South Lvl 4 Countries: Albania, Armenia, Aruba, the Netherlands with respect to, Barbados, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Benin, Bermuda, Bolivia, Plurinational State of, Bahamas, Bhutan, Botswana, Belize, Central African Republic, Congo, Cameroon, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cabo Verde, Curaçao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Eritrea, Fiji, Faeroe Islands, Grenada, Georgia, The Gambia, Equatorial Guinea, Guatemala, Guinea-Bissau, Honduras, Haiti, Iceland, Jamaica, Kyrgyz Republic, Cambodia, Kiribati, Comoros, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Korea, Democratic People's Republic of, Cayman Islands, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Sri Lanka, Liberia, Lesotho, Moldova, Republic of, Montenegro, Madagascar, North Macedonia, Mali, Myanmar, Mongolia, Mauritania, Montserrat, Maldives, Malawi, Mozambique, New Caledonia, Niger, Nicaragua, Nepal, French Polynesia, Papua New Guinea, Palestine, Paraguay, Rwanda, Solomon Islands, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Senegal, Somalia, Suriname, Sao Tomé and Principe, El Salvador, Sint Maarten, Eswatini, Turks and Caicos Islands, Chad, Togo, Tajikistan, Timor-Leste, Turkmenistan, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tanzania, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Vanuatu, Samoa, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

[steep mountain]

https://x.com/i/status/2047710215265730755 yeah he straight up stole it from this guy

Tim Urban (@waitbutwhy)

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

X · Apr 24, 2026, 4:12 PM

[ionic wraith]

lmfao fuck Mr. Beast

[steep mountain]

who probably saw it somewhere else too.

[ionic wraith]

my only suspicion regarding these results is that Afghanistan is a global north lvl 3 country seems super suss considering the countries that exercise "less" central economic power than Afghanistan

[rapid valve]

It existed from way before this guy

I thinkit's just a pretty famous moral experiment

[glossy marlin]

change your looks to line up with some other gender. can be pressed arbitrarily often, will eventually go back to how you were before.

[rapid valve]

So stealing is not the word

[flat harbor]

new idea for an april fools event. moderators are you listening

[steep mountain]

yeah i figured as much, but its still copying someone, since it was posted 5 days after this post was made.

[verbal quest]

it wasn't even the first time

[silent junco]

nexsai do you hear anything

[steep mountain]

Nope.

[flat harbor]

cant believe ure setting a recent trend of silencing blo.what did blo ever do

[ionic wraith]

gonna be real I don't care if I die pressing the blue button, the blue button is a broader representation of altruism/empathy which are major necessary founding buildings blocks of civilization while the red is a hyperindividualistic motivation borne from alienation

[flat harbor]

isnt red button smth u press if ure afraid of ppl pressing the red button

like isnt that the whole point of this experiment

[ionic wraith]

some people would have that motivation

I'm not familiar with the original experiment if there is one

[flat harbor]

unless theres an additional button u can press as an exit poll that says "i pressed the red button cause i want blue pushers to die" then we will never know

[rapid valve]

Earlier we compared pressing blue to voting in an election. The likelyhood to make a difference is negligeable but the action comes from a more irrational relationship to moral (respecrively democracy) that is almost spiritual

[glossy marlin]

if you would press the red button if you were afraid of people pressing the red button you´d be a reason for others to press the red button

[flat harbor]

exactly thats why this is "interesting" as a "social experiment"

[ionic wraith]

this has no bearing or is remotely close to say voting for a third party in a FPTP system

[rapid valve]

We developped the link earlier

[glossy marlin]

but if few people would do it / were afraid of it, everyone would stay alive.

[rapid valve]

A bit

[glossy marlin]

a red press might be good for you but would always be bad in general

[rapid valve]

I would press blue too, for the same reason i vote, and magma would press red for the same reasons she doesn't vote

[flat harbor]

it was game theory all along? wow. cant believe it

[verbal quest]

there is an easy solution
everyone presses red
I thought this was a math server, smh

[rapid valve]

Well what i wanted to say is that there is the purely rational game theory vision and the more ritualistic vision

[flat harbor]

id push the red button only if craig pushed the blue button

[rapid valve]

Or irrational

[glossy marlin]

easier solution, at least 50% of people press blue

[rapid valve]

At least 50% press blue is way mor elikely than everyone presses red

[verbal quest]

unrelated, pls leave all your valuables in an easy to find place
thanks

[rapid valve]

I think we can easily find interesting variations of this dilemma

[verbal quest]

if only there was a whole field dedicated to this
If only

[flat harbor]

some kinda.. dilemma...

[blazing pawn]

I tried this once and then brian mitsoda got fired from vampire the masquerade bloodlines 2 so i learned that god doesnt fuck around

[native thunder]

Bruh no way we have discussion and serious discussion 😂

But fr anyone need a study partner?

[glossy marlin]

"serious" as in serious / heavy topics.

read all the channel names, maybe read some channel descriptions.

[native thunder]

My bad

[magic python]

So like the ultimate tool to see what I actually want to be

[dreamy crag]

kinda a weird question, but something i was talking with some friends over: what is the least amount of catagories would you need to have to cover everything in the universe, where something is only in the catagory, if thats its most important quality

like black holes go in the "celestial body" catagory because being celestial bodies is their thing, not the "pop sci topic" catagory, despite them being a pop sci topic

[bleak sable]

water

[dreamy crag]

this isnt a rigorus question obviously, as deciding what literaly everythings most important quality is is probably imposible, but its interesing

[halcyon aurora]

This question is a bit too unrigorous for me to answer, but I feel someone else is on your wavelength with this.

[odd narwhal]

Who decides what's the most important quality

[dreamy crag]

the person answering the question

[fading cedar]

atoms

[dreamy crag]

this isnt anything serious, just, if you had to put everthing into catagories, what catagories would you choose

things can be distinct and still be in the same catagory

[fading cedar]

Goon material and chud material

[halcyon aurora]

Ok I rescind the idea that others would be on a related wavelength.

[magic python]

Exists vs doesn't exist I'd bet

[dreamy crag]

for example, all living things could be one catagory, bieng that for anything thats alive, being alive makes it pretty unique from everything from everything not alive

[magic python]

Things that exist are probably unique for that

[dreamy crag]

i guess

not really how me or my friends handled the question, but you can

[verbal quest]

summer camp kids up late

[magic python]

I mean you could class objects on their actual qualities

Like how we class elements

[dreamy crag]

true

[magic python]

Like you could class objects based on how they interact with others

[dreamy crag]

yeah

this is more a question of what you find most important than anything

[magic python]

I wonder what the "natural" way to class stuff intuitively would be in general

[magic python]

But what if nothing seems important

Now I not only need to class objects, but figure out importance

Hmmm, I'd probably need quite a few categories in that case

Noooo not iso

Not abs alg...

I don't wanna think about A/~...

[cursive ember]

hi

[glossy marlin]

things we´ve observed and things we haven´t observed

[rapid valve]

Global sumud flotilla ships got intercepted west to crete

I didn't expect it to happen this early wtf

This is so far from gaza

[stuck dune]

what uis that

[rapid valve]

sumud flotilla ship getting intercepted, most likely by israel

But the thing is that they're not even halfay past greece

@ionic wraith does israel own the mediteranean now?

[fading cedar]

huh theres another flotilla

didntthe last one fail and they bombed greta thunbergs whip too

[ionic wraith]

More like Israel can do whatever the fuck it wants like a spoiled brat child and no one will do shit

[rapid valve]

They almost reached gaza last time and this time there's double the nulber of ships

But yeah israel starting intercepting them this fucking early

The last ships weren't even gone

[ionic wraith]

The U.S. Congress putting forth a bill to condemn Hasan Piker is so batshit

[rapid valve]

What

Well france tried to pass a bill to condemn the whole left but hey

[halcyon aurora]

There's been a number of indictments to crime lately

Most notably Comey, but also the sitting Chairman of the Fed

[odd narwhal]

Such unemployed behaviour lmao

[ionic wraith]

It’s actually so pathetic and empire decline moment

Hasan must be chilling knowing that so many more people will learn about him and go “huh he seems reasonable actually”

Getting attention from Congress lmfao

[halcyon aurora]

What should be the plot for day 3 of trying to get ChatGPT to let me eat grass

[halcyon aurora]

also this question is underrated so bringing that back

[true zinc]

I don't like hasan much but like....wow what the fuck is the govt high on

[twilit plume]

How common is it to find people to endorse your arxiv paper if it's your first time publishing? Im working on a paper and I just wanna know how long it will take / how likely it is. Im 16 and current developing a parralel computing framework for the riemann hypothesis to search away from the critical line to find possible zeros. In addition im using BOINC (what seti used) and implmenting it in fortran, c++, cuda c++ as well as some assembly. This isn't some garbage RH paper its just about interesting statistics and trying to cover more area that we know don't have zeros not trying to prove or disprove it.

This is a rough rough rough draft but I believe it gives a general idea, please don't judge my word choice I wrote this in school and it will not be published in this current state

nevermind, I can't upload images

[stuck lynx]

Didn't they put forward a bill/motion to condemn Nick Fuentes too

this is just centrism

[umbral ocean]

Can you share the GitHub of the code?

It sounds interesting.

[snow ice]

"how can somebody win if someone loses?"

[tardy marsh]

sounds pretty interesting

[tiny path]

why so serious

[spring vortex]

its called #serious-discussion for a reason

[tiny path]

thats scary

[spring vortex]

!redir

[quasi jetty]

This channel is only for on-topic discussion. Please take casual conversation to #discussion or #chill.

[tiny path]

huh whats that

[rustic mountain]

Sirius deeshcushion

[floral mulch]

@novel apex

Maybe this fits here better

LLMs do have good reasons to be around, just not in the way they are right now...

LLMs are an absolutely great technology for proof-reading, maybe even summaries. BUT they use up HUGE amounts of power, even for the most simple tasks. They hallucinate, because they are just word-prediction machines. They can't think, they're just a statistical model, trying to guess what the next most likely word would be. The amount of data they obtain illegally in order to train is enormous. The amount of people relying on LLMs as their only source of truth is scary, especially in engineering, where errors could lead to trauma, injury, or even death. I know people who can't even do proper research anymore, I know people who just won't ever read a paper, because their fancy ChatGPT can just tell them "everything", half of it being wrong. And don't let me get even started on the AI-generated papers, riddled with errors and references that don't even exist.
Then there are the GenAI images and videos. I don't even know one SINGLE reason, why anyone wouls prefer that over real art. I don't know a single reason why anyome would want to watch an ai-generated advertisement.
The list goes on, but I think I made my point.

[novel apex]

alright I understand and resonate with this perspective greatly but i do feel like there is an argument there to be made for the other side as well

the part where i get hung up on is the shunning of AI altogether rather yk dealing with these vices you've clearly mentioned

i am not trying to deny their existence quite the contrary actually

however i do not understand the altogether extortion and lowkey classism that arises at times just because someone uses AI

you would agree that AI is a tool and as such a tool that needs to be learnt to use properly

it should never be an altogether substitute and i can see that's the main area where your points arise

is the people who let it subsititute their cognition altogether

but that generalization then ends up hurting the overall ecosystem that could arise from proper regulation and consequent use of the models

what i get caught up on is the absolute disgust people show at even the mention of AI as it stands right now

when rather i feel it would be significantly more helpful to shed light onto the "dangerous" use of it

thereby guiding more people to use it properly

think about it like this let's say im using a calculator but i only use the plus minus multiply and divide for solving lets say a quadratic which drains the battery a certain amount

when on the other hand there's a mode in the same calculator that solves the quadratic directly and uses a little lesser battery

if the goal was getting to an answer both get there one way or the other

[floral mulch]

Hold up- let us please differenciate between AI, machine learning and GenAI and LLMs

[novel apex]

what does ChatGPT fall under for instance afai undertsand it it's a GenAI LLm idk

[floral mulch]

ChatGPT is an LLM and thus in the category of GenAI

[floral mulch]

I just said that maybe one shouldn't use LLMs... No disgust, it's just a very bad idea

[novel apex]

alright then all my arguments have been keeping GPT specifically in mind

[novel apex]

oh i would like to clarify i wasnt aiming at you specifically but rather what i've observed in the online ecosystem

[floral mulch]

I don't see the classism against people who use LLMs in their daily lives... I see classism from the people who create LLMs against everyone else

[floral mulch]

Oki

[novel apex]

i think i havent managed to communicate my point

[floral mulch]

But here's the thing: the latter mode would just be straight up wrong, but sold believably

[floral mulch]

Maybe
Or maybe it's just me having a brainfart

[novel apex]

i'll be fully honest not once have I had GPT hallucinate a meaningless answer if i've used the correct model for it

[floral mulch]

I did... So, so many times

[abstract gale]

maybe you weren't aware that it was wrong

[novel apex]

the only times it's been blatantly incorrect is handling relatively higher difficultly physics numericals that mostly depend on diagrams

[floral mulch]

To be fair, which level were your questions at? Pre-uni math and physics should be fine, but the more advanced it gets, the more errors it will produce

[novel apex]

quite a variety hovering around pre uni and ug but yes i do agree it stumbles around grad level studies

[abstract gale]

not just grad level

[floral mulch]

And there's the problem

[novel apex]

but at that point if you're using genAI again you shouldnt be using it as a standalone substitute you should work alongside it as a tool

[floral mulch]

I can only speak from an engineering-students perspective... Pre-Uni Math won't get you very far. And it already fails at so, so many things in undergrad math

[hidden bough]

It can still spit out pretty high quality answers often enough to be useful at the graduate and even research level

[novel apex]

and at that point you should be more aware of the possibility of hallucinations which is my point that rather than say "oh this hallucinates dont use it at all this bad" the outlook should be "this can hallucinate hence you should be careful when using it and think yourself alongside it"

[novel apex]

perspective was one of the things i brought up

[floral mulch]

Then why use it at all, when you can just have a book next to you, when you have to fact-check everything either way?

[novel apex]

a lot of times it presents an approach i wouldve never thought of and even if it was completely off itself if i try it that way i find quicker success

[hidden bough]

It can't do this if you're not sufficiently competent yourself at either the material or using it as a tool

[novel apex]

that's the same argument as why use a calculator to do any arithmetic when you know howo to add and subtract

[hidden bough]

But that's not really on the model

[novel apex]

i find that quite baseless in the nicest way possible

as i've been trying to argue the AI model is a tool not a substitute

YES i agree that the people who have it completely substitute their own cognition are using it dangerously

[floral mulch]

Not really, no
The calculator is correct. An LLM will be incorrect eventually

You can use an LLM as good as you want, statistically speaking, it will ALWAYS say something incorrect sooner or later

[hidden bough]

This comment does feel a little ironic given that the undergrad engineering curriculum doesn't really demand very much mathematically that isn't covered in lower divs

[novel apex]

i feel like you're not open to looking at the perspective im offerring and i completely respect that however i hence im stepping back with this debate

[floral mulch]

Gemini failed on me with basix firsg semester questions

[hidden bough]

Then don't use gemini

[novel apex]

(gemeni is absolute dogshit)

the only model i've found to be consistently pretty good is the extended thinking model of gpt

[hidden bough]

Blind trust in your calculator is pretty much fine

[novel apex]

it takes like full minutes to half hours to generate a response

[winged pawn]

This is totally dependent on which you model you use. The paid versions across all major corporations are pretty good from my experimentation

[novel apex]

and it's not afraid to say "i dont have enough information to go through" bceause it genuinely tried a lot of things

ive found it to actively avoid hallucination

[hidden bough]

If you try something super fucked up it might fail in some pathological way but if you stay within the intended use cases it's pretty much flawless

[floral mulch]

I wouls like to have this discussion later again, when I'm at a quiet place

I'm very stressed out rn (for medical reasons)
I am sorry if it felt like talking to a wall

[novel apex]

especially with the recent addition of being able to search up actively while deciding on a response to generate

[floral mulch]

(I just basically started crying infront of the doctor a few minutes ago, I should try to wind down)

[novel apex]

oh no no dont worry at all the point of the discussion is to keep it healthy

and i recognize that if we both were to continue right now it would probably steer away from that hence i decided to step back

[floral mulch]

Yes, that's why I would love to come back to it later

Maybe in DMs or so, if you want

[heavy pagoda]

I recently upgraded to ChatGPT pro and it is very good

[south kelp]

I feel like the fact that gpt still has an error rate in proofs is actually somewhat instructive lol. It's like a nice stream of "show what's wrong in the proof" type exercises you might find in a textbook

[heavy pagoda]

100 dollars a month is kind of a rip off though

[novel apex]

HOLY WHAT

oh pro the company version

[heavy pagoda]

Yeah

[novel apex]

dude plus is good enough 😭 😭

[heavy pagoda]

Plus is like 10 dollars a month

[novel apex]

unless you have like insanely intensive use

[heavy pagoda]

My use case is that I want it to be able to think moderately intelligently about research level stuff

[dreamy swift]

serious discussy is a fever dream?

[heavy pagoda]

Plus was much better than the original one but it would still need a lot of prodding to do some things

[novel apex]

have you tried out the agent mode? hows your experience been with that

[dreamy swift]

what is it?

[heavy pagoda]

Haven’t really needed agent mode

Been thinking about using it to automate some email stuff

[novel apex]

automation of multi step tasks requiring reasoning browsing clicking analyzing files and editing docs and spreadsheets rather than just answering in chat

the main thing is that from your initial prompt it can plan further steps for itself

[dreamy swift]

nice pronous (jkjk)

[dreamy swift]

i see

[untold charm]

well (sorry for jumping in) this is quite diffrent in a calculator you outsource arthmetic because calculator can do arthemtic thats what computuers excel at arthmetic buttt
when it comes to chatgpt ur essentailly oursourcing ur thinking at first it feels great but you know how if u dont do multiplication manually for too long u start to frrogt the multiplicaion table
its kinda the same with thinking relying on it is terrible in the regards of its effect on you. not to mention envoirmental and other effects. i am not denying thats it is usefull i know it is and ik it helps many people but just with anything moderate and regulatued use is very important here too! (again this is my own belifs so i might jsut be planely wrong)

[untold charm]

although if u have the time this might be inresting to read. its a paper by MIT https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt/

also regarding envoirmental effects and water usuage there are many many models that are much cheaper and harm the envoirment way less- if you have the time and energy to look into that please do
you might even be able to run your own llm locally instead anyways if ur more intrested in the nuance of this topic Dr.fatima made an honestly very well written video essay on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85nqc2zm7M

[untold charm]

also i belive the video i sent in my last msg might be worth a watch for you too! because it challenges both belifes on the debate (if u have the time and energy to)

agreed but sadly its driven under concern of for profit and not for envoirmental reasons..

data centers are still bieng built everywhere.

but win lose ig

... welll a cough cough a certain company was uhh.. "non profit" until hmm yeah...

[halcyon aurora]

Out of curiosity what did you ask ChatGPTs extended thinking model to get it to think for half an hour? Like that's crazy work

[untold charm]

i think ai companies can exsist without capitlicstic incentives but maybe i am just naive

i mean they arent even making any profit yet its only still going cause investment money (i belive so?)

also deepseek at its start managed to obtain some succues with a ridiclously lower budget

yes but they belive that whatover "super intelgence" may arise will fix that problem.
it can be a non profit buisness aas it was claimed to be once..
but now it has become a play where u need to make number go up so u can get more investment funds
and so u build more expand more faster and faster to get more investment and so on. but this is pretty harmfull
to prettty much everyone. and they still dont even know how they will pay backk all those investors.

which is why i belive in open source models and running your own LLM if u want to use one

[novel apex]

oh it was quite a few pdfs that i needed it to scrape to train itself before i could have it generate any response

[untold charm]

it is fairly simple to set up too

[halcyon aurora]

Did you give it multiple pdfs and a prompt, or multiple prompts?

[novel apex]

i had a master prompt so that it could learn up on most if not all of the data of the pdfs and then after that once it had the context built it could answer my questions more accurately to my requirement

[halcyon aurora]

Gotcha, so it roughly took 30 minites for the initial prompt then

I have gotten ChatGPT to do a multi-minute thinking with tricky mathematical prompts, but it's rather hard to stump with minimal data. I guess if you load in 300 page pdfs or something it churns for a bit.

[novel apex]

there was one other game theory question where i wanted it to solve a game we made up at school and it took idr how long but it was over 25m

[untold charm]

eh i guess that is true captilism i guess..

you were right idk i just wish things were diffrent i guess ;/

[stoic tusk]

seriously

[untold charm]

i mean is massive data centers in a desert for a machine that steals all text and media really the only way to move forwards?

[halcyon aurora]

The poor robots getting abused by these questions is crazy

[flat karma]

What serious chat on

[fallen mango]

sometimes it thinks for 30 minutes just to be wrong

if its thinking too much its not doing the work you asked it to do, the quicker the reply the more promising, majority of thinking is to validate the prompt is correct logically by refeeding it

[dreamy swift]

sup

[heavy pagoda]

A lot of the environmental issues with AI would be resolved if these companies were allowed to own private nuclear reactors

[kind cedar]

i think i prefer the issues of the datacenters as they are compared to the idea of companies cutting costs with nuclear waste disposal, because im sure eventually a CEO somewhere would decide to just dump it in the sewers or something

[heavy pagoda]

Surely with appropriate legislation this wouldn’t happen

Like if these face the same level of inspection and standards as government ones

It’s not terribly expensive to dispose properly of nuclear waste either, at least compared to total running costs, so I don’t see why they would be incentivised to do stuff like this

[kind cedar]

There have been a bunch of times companies violated legislation about appropriate waste disposal before though, so i wouldnt fully trust them to change.

also if the company goes bankrupt and closes down, who pays for the closure of the plant?

[untold charm]

the residents in the area ofcourse!!after all its not the companies problem its cheaper to lobbby thierway out of it..

[heavy pagoda]

This isn’t nuclear waste though

[kind cedar]

but it shows us they are willing to violate laws around proper waste disposal, so changing the type of waste might not change their opinion

[heavy pagoda]

Nuclear waste comes in very small volumes and there are well established procedures for what to do with it

And its also in the interest of the employees too since they are exposed

[kind cedar]

i need to go to class, sorry

[kind cedar]

good point, i didnt think of that

[heavy pagoda]

Also you can say this about any sort of building or factory whatsoever

[untold charm]

true

bad sadly this wont happen i mean we know nucalear energy is probably one of the best clean energy sources but ofc someone is paying money to make sure that doesnt happen..

oh wow on a completetly unrelated note i wonder what is the 2nd highest gross company in the world huh..

[heavy pagoda]

Yeah I’m pro nuclear in general, I just think AI and Datacenter stuff seems like a particularly good use case for having large numbers of small modular reactors all over the place

[untold charm]

honestly this is a pretty good idea sadly though its probably not gonna happen.. but i mean oil prices are rising so maybe? its slightly more liekly now?

[outer minnow]

millions nuclear reactors must be built

[rustic mountain]

nuclear fuel is also scarce

unless we have fusion

[jade basin]

if I'm not wrong, this used to be #discussion-2 not serious-discussion xD

judging by the chat ig the new label is accurate.

[zealous garden]

A lot of issues would be solved by widespread adoption of nuclear power

If only we could exist off of only nuclear power

[zealous garden]

IIRC if we switched all coal and gas to nuclear we'd last like 30 years before we ran out

[broken ember]

im the smartest in the server ngl

[glossy marlin]

-# iirc we´re also kinda running out of fossil and millions if not billions of people might die because of fossil and switching to renewable energy (besides water because that also kinda sucks) is gonna take a lot of time and money. you can recycle some nuclear stuff and store everything pretty safely.

[ionic wraith]

[dense wraith]

this map was made by a brazilian

[elfin bramble]

I'm proud of you

[elfin bramble]

Leaf it to Canada! 🇨🇦

https://youtu.be/UFjAF_6j2q0?si=n0RUJ3dPczpMs4jM

Canada has one of the world’s most promising domestic markets for SMRs. Conservative estimates place the potential value for SMRs in Canada at $5.3B between 2025 and 2040. Globally, the SMR market is much bigger, with a conservative estimated value of $150B between 2025 and 2040. This represents a large potential export market for Canada, which has already exported nuclear reactor technology to six other countries.

Source:https://smrroadmap.ca/

[vast wraith]

what does this mean

i never understood the phrase “global north”

[heavy pagoda]

India but not Norway is insane

[sand swift]

first world

[modest geode]

i’m neither of them but the girl is my friend

[hasty totem]

hey

[ionic wraith]

Norway is mainly an oil exporting country it would make sense tbh

[ionic wraith]

Like Norway isn’t part of OPEC or OPEC+ so I could see why it wouldn’t really be a global north country

[verbal quest]

it just means first world for people who don't want to say first world

[ionic wraith]

The global north was derived because it would encompass America and Western Europe during its major colonial/imperial/expansion phase.

But its definition is more an economic one regarding greater degree of central economic power. They’re the major economic decision makers and exhibit benefits of cheap imports, strong currencies, and so on.

[vast wraith]

oh ok i think i understand a little

[ionic wraith]

Norway is in the lvl 2 global north group

[ionic wraith]

Real but take it up with the clustering algos I used

[paper vigil]

People are scared of that word

[verbal quest]

I'm surprised this international tier ranking fanfic is still going

[ionic wraith]

[dense wraith]

jordan being lower than iraq is so sad

lower than argentina......

[paper vigil]

It’s funny because we don’t need that much

My state only has a couple and they generate ~70-80% of electricity

[ionic wraith]

Unfortunately Jordan is a lvl 4 country

[verbal quest]

make your own fanfic
problem solved

[slate wind]

I'm in lvl 4. what is this?

[vocal vessel]

How does "global north" include the very south Australia?

[ionic wraith]

It’s an economic definition that originated from the U.S. and Western Europe being the big power players, nowadays it’s not really a geographical definition

[vocal vessel]

Sounds like racism with a bow on it.

[ionic wraith]

It’s hierarchical clustering on various graph centrality measures on global trade data in 2024

[slate wind]

so?

[ionic wraith]

Wdym so?

[slate wind]

why is it important?

[ionic wraith]

I don’t know

[slate wind]

how much trade you do?

[ionic wraith]

This was for funsies

[ionic wraith]

I trade peanuts with my frens

[verbal quest]

it's made up
that should clarify

[ionic wraith]

[outer minnow]

yeah i guess we dont need that much

[rapid valve]

You made the graphs by yourself?

I mean the maps and categories

[ionic wraith]

Yes

[dense wraith]

💔

[rapid valve]

Waow what were the criteria precisely?

[ionic wraith]

It’s hierarchical clustering on various graph centrality measures on global trade data in 2024

The clustering algos did the groupings for me

[ionic wraith]

Somewhat sussed by the results since Afghanistan is a lvl 3 country

[hot gust]

What are these levels based on

[dense wraith]

bangladesh being no4? girl ur algo is bullshit

[ionic wraith]

Ehhh prolly, I need to look into the drivers of separation of the clusters because the interpretations don’t match cleanly to prior conceptions of global north

[rapid valve]

Oh wow

Idk how that works

Maybe i do kinda

[night coyote]

lvl1 in what exactly?

[verbal quest]

biosocialduckfailureuwuiality

[haughty panther]

And levels are hierarchy or what

[cursive ember]

hey

[slate turret]

hey

[cursive ember]

Wassup

[grim flax]

Hi

[ember rock]

How to get good at gcse higher maths currently in year10 and developed a recent love for maths any tips would be helpful

[modest warren]

Does anybody knows what kind of jobs I could get with a major in mathematics and a minor in biology?

[vivid halo]

McDonalds

[covert crag]

💀

[covert crag]

maybe, Bioinformatics Scientist/Analyst, Computational Biologist, Machine Learning Engineer in Healthcare, Researcher?, Data Management for Trials.

[maiden panther]

A mathematician, say, M went to McDonalds.
The cashier C greeted him warmly.
M: Can I get a donut?
C: Excuse me?
M: A donut.
C: We have run out of donuts.
M: Just give me a coffee, there's no difference.
C: (Confused noises) Okay?

[cerulean sage]

[halcyon aurora]

Top level serious comment tbf

[burnt ledge]

@ionic wraith why dont you highlight all of the countries on one map, in different colours depending on which level theyre on. like 1 could be red, 2 orange, 3 yellow, 4 lime, 5 green?

instead of 5 separate maps where map N has level N highlighted in blue and all other levels in grey

[ionic wraith]

I could do that!

[burnt ledge]

Would be cool to see in all one go

[ionic wraith]

It was just more annoying to do at the time because of how the data is structured but isn’t impossible

[ionic wraith]

I should address these general questions lol by summarizing the methodology at some point lol

[modest warren]

I am already working there😭😭😭

[tropic trail]

Are there any other servers like this one for history or science or anything that isn't ran by the awful people in the Physics server?

[verbal monolith]

and not individual events but rather the fact it’s happened so often feels abnormal

[tropic trail]

You should read the last part of the rules message

[verbal monolith]

You should read the channel description.

[tropic trail]

Try to avoid debates on heavy topics like politics and religions

[verbal monolith]

reading takes you far in life my friend

[tropic trail]

It says serious discussion, i asked a serious question because i'm getting non-serious answers in the other channel

[verbal monolith]

i honestly was not whatsoever talking about your message, but rather you dismissing mine

[halcyon aurora]

#old-network

Also why is this an argument lol

[tropic trail]

Appreciated

[verbal monolith]

it’s not

[verbal monolith]

though over trump’s shootings, maybe it could be a case of where its so heavily documented now that my view is skewed and biased towards it?

thought dumping here.

[unborn trellis]

Butler 100%

[verbal monolith]

with his ear , right?

[unborn trellis]

Yes

[verbal monolith]

i think it’s rather odd the context in which it happened

it’s near impossible for it to NOT have been at least somewhat staged

[unborn trellis]

The president is in moral danger! Time for a photo op!

*mortal

[verbal monolith]

hm. i’ll read this

[tropic trail]

Anyways today's Victor Glover's birthday & i'm over a week sober

[verbal monolith]

two great things, congrats

[magic python]

How serious is random lesbianism

[tropic trail]

Jackie Robinson was player #42, the answer to life. They retired that number in all of baseball and now every year on April 15th players wear #42 to honor Jackie. He was played by Chadwick Boseman in the movie "42".

[verbal monolith]

ah, rather odd article, doesn’t provide any good insight lol

[ionic wraith]

here it is

[odd narwhal]

The last shooting is almost definitely not staged

[verbal monolith]

well i was talking mostly of the pattern of shootings

[odd narwhal]

https://youtube.com/shorts/PJjkN4J-jBs

This video by Dave Jorgenson covers the absolute and complete implausibility of the shooting being staged

[verbal monolith]

oh i love that guy

[odd narwhal]

I think it's not crazy that disaffected trump supporters keep trying to kill him. He cultivated a fanbase of violent murderers hoping to recreate J6. They're gonna be angry and violent when he fucks them over

It's also not too implausible that they're really bad at it.

I do think he didn't actually get hit in the ear though

Like not even grazed, I don't buy it

[tropic trail]

Bananas are slightly radioactive due to their potassium content.

[heavy pagoda]

where did the blood come from then

[odd narwhal]

Which blood specifically?

[verbal monolith]

that’s fair, and i also really don’t buy the whole ear shtick

[heavy pagoda]

the blood that was on his face

[unborn meteor]

not very much

https://xkcd.com/radiation

[tropic trail]

Lego is technically the worlds largest tire manufacturer.

[glossy marlin]

gun country only trying thrice feels weird, people failing all three times also feels weird
but being gun country and increasingly angry idk why it would be staged
risks would also be really high if it was staged but trump is dumb enough for it

[heavy pagoda]

like surely all these theories about the shooting are just TDS at this point

they have a bullet on camera like a few inches from his face

like people just seem to want to compulsively deny any instance of something bad happening to someone they dislike

[tropic trail]

Sharks existed before trees.

[heavy pagoda]

sharks existed before the north star

[tropic trail]

Sharks cant breathe if they stop swimming.

[heavy pagoda]

as in older than the star itself, not just older than the point in time at which it became positioned at the north pole

[tropic trail]

What is the name of the north star?

[true zinc]

Polaris?

The brightest star in ursa minor if I recall

[magic python]

Sharks have either done a whole half rotation or a full one in their lifespan of our universe iirc

Unless I was totally lied to

[unborn meteor]

the north star changes every 2000 years or so

[unborn meteor]

yes this is true

[magic python]

which one

[unborn meteor]

i believe a full rotation is like 263M years

[magic python]

Oh god

[unborn meteor]

though i'm probably off by a bit

also it changes every time because n body

[magic python]

Sharks have done a full one

[tropic trail]

What do you mean by full rotation? Around the sun? My brain is immediatly thinking "One rotation is 365 days..."

[magic python]

Around the galaxy I believe

[burnt ledge]

BRILLIANT

[tropic trail]

THE GALAXY? We rotate around the galaxy? I never thought to look up how the sun moves in the galaxy. The center is usually a black hole right?

[magic python]

Yes i believe so

[tropic trail]

Rotation around the black hole?

Thats crazyyyy

[magic python]

Sharks are old

[unborn meteor]

the sun's movement in the galaxy is quite interesting and probably explains a lot of mass extinctions

[tropic trail]

Does it dip and weave? I must go research this immediatly

[unborn meteor]

yes

[tropic trail]

Why would you say it explains extinctions? Thats a great thought

[unborn meteor]

i read somewhere that it does

bc when it passes too close to some kinds of stuff it stirs up the oort cloud (cloud of comets around the sun) and sometimes it goes to earth

[unborn meteor]

(i mean in a physical book, not on the internet)

[tropic trail]

That makes a lot of sense. I forget how many other systems we have in our galaxy

[unborn meteor]

also if you go too close to star forming regions higher risks of supernova and collisions

[true zinc]

This is...unfounded at best to my knowledge

[tropic trail]

Theres star forming regions in the milky way?

[true zinc]

As far as ice cores and the such have shown, no extinctions on earth are due to the impacts of GRB or similar phenomena

[true zinc]

....obviously? Basically every galaxy has them

[tropic trail]

That's interesting to know. It's not obvious, it's learned knowledge. No need to be rude to someone just trying to learn things.

[magic python]

I need to become more serious and get serious takes so many can start conversations here

[unborn meteor]

there's the ordovician one
also supernovas can harm directly if they're under like 25 ly

[unborn meteor]

no most big galaxies don't form stars

[true zinc]

From what I recall, many are star forming at-least in minute quantities

[magic python]

What even makes a topic serious/heavy

[unborn meteor]

yes true

[true zinc]

Me when I have nonexistent memory

[unborn meteor]

nemesis theory aftermath?

[true zinc]

No strong proof in support of this afaik

[past trench]

Yes! Black holes are MASSIVE

[past trench]

Just because it was printed does not make it instantly reputable…

[past trench]

That doesn’t sound terribly off but I don’t think it necessarily explains mass extinctions; Jupiter is our godsend

[paper vigil]

yeah but it’s proposed that there’s also dark matter holding everything together because the effect of gravitation approaches zero as your distance approaches infinity

and galaxies are really really big, not nearly infinite but big

[ionic wraith]

There’s this pretty somewhat famous trans woman comedian Stacy Cay who is a “liberal” and has some of the most insufferable takes ever

[paper vigil]

complacency to the nazis doesn’t seem for liberal to me

[past trench]

Don’t forget about dark energy

Pushing everything away

[paper vigil]

Yeah but that’s on an EXTREMELY LARGE SCALE

like earth and the sun aren’t being apparently repulsed by all other matter

Neither is the Milky Way and Andromeda

It’s only when you get to large clusters of galaxies where that is not a negligible motion

[past trench]

I mean the universe is pretty fricking big

Heat death is coming don’t say I didn’t warn you

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-idk-gif-4373655489512434337

Freak I keep forgetting I don’t have embed perms in this channel

[paper vigil]

yeah it may

[ionic wraith]

Do u think Dyson Swarms are possible?

[paper vigil]

idk I’m not a physicist yet I’ll get you an answer in like 5-10 years

[past trench]

Possible? Yeah

Not rn but yeah eventually

[ionic wraith]

Fucking stupid ass conference to present at tmw

[ionic wraith]

many people have been asking about the basis for all the levels and "global north" and why certain countries seem to be landing where, so I shall give a brief methodology to this

The data I used is OECD world trade data collected in 2024. The data line by line contains the country exporting, the country receiving those exports, the industry the goods/services is in (comprising 22 industrial categories), and the volume of trade that took place

what I did is create 22 directed weighted graph networks to represent this data. following that, I obtained various centrality measures for each country (represented as nodes) across all graphs. I obtained a Laplacian centrality, which is essentially trying to measure how fucked the network is if a certain node is removed from the graph (essentially acting as a central power like a king or dictator). I also obtained betweenness and percolation centrality which assesses how much of a networker or middleman a country is.

3 centrality measures across 22 directed weighted graph networks yielded 66 variables I could use for k-means clustering. Conducted k-means clustering, found two clusters to be the most optimal, and then conducted non-parametric statistical tests to characterize these clusters. One cluster consistently had more Laplacian centrality than the other (Cluster A), while the other consistently had more betweenness/percolation centrality than the other (Cluster B).

From this, I figured that the nature of Cluster A highly resembles the "global north" characterization and I just by default called Cluster B the global south.

I would repeat the k-means clustering with the Cluster B countries alone yielding similar results, and then the label "global north lvl 2." The "global south lvl 2" would further be clustered to yield "global north lvl 3" and so on

[past oar]

Norway isn't north?

[sharp sage]

Holy statistics

[elfin bramble]

https://www.csis.org/analysis

The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) is a bipartisan, nonprofit policy research organization dedicated to advancing practical ideas to address the world’s greatest challenges.

History

At the height of the Cold War in 1962, Admiral Arleigh Burke and David Abshire founded the Center for Strategic and International Studies at Georgetown University in Washington, DC. The institution was dedicated to the simple but urgent goal of finding ways for the United States to survive as a nation and prosper as a people.

.
Unrelated to what you all are talking about but I've found this to be an excellent resource.

They have podcasts too that hardly anyone listens to but they're well produced and have important guests.

https://youtu.be/gHr_HEPB3TI?si=P9J-qyWwDnejvaRY

[elfin bramble]

First of all, that's some fine work. Second, what program did you use for the weighted graph networks?

[elfin bramble]

Also, maybe it was more related than I thought. Here's a quote from one article I was just reading:

China’s advantages include central planning and financing of large-scale projects and copious human resources to throw at a problem. Centralization plus people means Chinese influence efforts have scope and depth. To counter this, the United States should lean into its own strengths of innovation and a belief that humans know themselves and their needs better than any outside force. The United States can use technology to empower policymakers in Washington and people residing far from national capitals, at the edge of China’s influence, to chart their own course, rather than put up with China’s restrictions and exploitation. Participants had the following ideas around technology:

Tech can provide real-time monitoring of complex networks. Soon, tools may be able to identify vulnerable nodes as they emerge and alert policymakers that urgent action will yield outsized results. For example, in the fight against fentanyl, illuminating transit and distribution networks will provide insights into vulnerable nodes and processes. Networks can be disrupted if the information about them is up-to-date and actionable.

.
Sounds a lot like this part of your methodology:

I obtained various centrality measures for each country (represented as nodes) across all graphs. I obtained a Laplacian centrality, which is essentially trying to measure how fucked the network is if a certain node is removed from the graph (essentially acting as a central power like a king or dictator). I also obtained betweenness and percolation centrality which assesses how much of a networker or middleman a country is.

[river yew]

what are you working on?

[halcyon aurora]

I'm a little confused about this. How does Laplacian Centrality and the globalozation of economic power have to do with the political issue of the USA countering "Chinese influence"? The possibility for central control, appears to be the thesis you're responding to.
In China I think it could be said that your argument is a blatant assertion of US Sovereignty, while in the USA perspective it just sounds kinda racist.

[halcyon aurora]

Meanwhile, this result is just a statistical attempt, maybe not even by a novice, to determine the leverage of countries based on globalozation.

[limber thunder]

“liberal”
has some of the most insufferable takes ever

[limber thunder]

very interesting might try to replicate for fun

[stark trench]

i agree this attitude kinda sucks, but i am much more sympathetic to it than most folk

it is hard for me to look at people and go "hey man, you're working as a defense contractor. you know that's bad, right? you should just make way less money and suffer immensely instead, yeah, man." now i think to some extent people should do this, just like i think people should donate enormous sums of their income, even they're relatively poor, to charities, but i'm sympathetic to a view under which this isn't obligatory and it's fine to be complicit in broader societal problems you aren't capable of solving sometimes

like, yeah, you working for defense contractors does very slightly lower the wage at which they have to pay their workers

and i understand where an attitude of trans solidarity comes from

i think it's ultimately horrendously tribalist, yeah, but it's still something i can understand and it's hard to treat it as one of the most insufferable things

at the very least, it's about as insufferable as folk who refuse to spend a sizable portion of their money donating to oxfam because oxfam isn't working to dismantle capitalism and economic imperialism are

which is to say, it isn't that insufferable. i can tolerate these people and there are an enormous number of more insufferable views

[stark trench]

or ethical vegans who also buy from grocers, restaurants, etc. which supply non-vegan food

[dreamy swift]

what is more worth it? Indian Education or Asian Education (Asian as in Chinese Japanese etc)

i hope that didnt sound racist... ;-;

[untold charm]

ah yes i love when poeple make claims with data the clearly show that there is a strong correlation ofcourse! /s

[bold ginkgo]

Depends on what your goals are; East asian education offers superior infrastructure and research (better for STEM) whilst indian education offers better theoretical foundations , the benefit of being in english , and lower costs (better in IT and engineering)

[vast wraith]

here is an example of a german trans woman who lived through ww2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Richter

[untold charm]

-# oh also btw wasnt she also one of the first poeple who underwent mtf surgery?

[vast wraith]

mhm

[vast wraith]

https://youtu.be/M2xEMwYHqBw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

[signal zodiac]

Hey

This "rant" may look dumb but I'm genuinely stressed out of engineering I am pursuing.

Doing Bachelor's in CSE(AIML), I am stumped how people brainlessly code prototypes in AI, each same or similar every time, and call it a new project

All the time they talk about AI tools and vibecoding, and they do not even consider learning up some theory of system architecture or machine learning for example

It's like I'm doing a damn job instead of learning anything with them. I don't even know what to do at this point

The most ironic part I have seen is their dislike to math but they still have the audacity to call themselves AI engineer or Data Scientist

Like what

Am I simply in a wrong environment or is this becoming common

[glossy marlin]

seems to be common...

[brittle jasper]

The amount of math/machine learning you need to do to be a proper one is very substantial. It's obvious why these people take the easy way and call themselves anything. To me there are some standard things I expect an AI engineer to know, yet it may have absolutely zero impact working as an AI engineer in corporate. One of these things is to know Mercer's Theorem, and to know where it exists in modern AI application (i.e. LLMs)

[night basin]

Corporate work and academia work are two different things in many aspects so.....

If you compare people who study in postgrad with and without corporate/industrial work experience, you will see lots of difference between them, mindset and skill wise

[night basin]

I can understand the rant but.... Yeah, structure wise the world is unfair and optimized for short term, what we can do is just prepare and develop best version of ourselves 🙂

That's what I want to say basically

[dreamy crag]

I have to make up three tests today and I wasn’t fronting for most of last night so I’m trying to desipher the notes of maddy

Being plural is really annoying

[cyan silo]

i feel like trump will soon recognize donbass as russian

what do you guys think?

[dreamy crag]

At least my ap human teacher is chill and lets me listen to music during the tests

[cyan silo]

Wow pinkishnova is a good name

[night basin]

I just want oil, fertilizer, and grain price normalize 🙂

Whatever "normalcy" means

[cyan silo]

same

we have to realize russia is not the enemy

but rather the globalists and billionares in brusells and dubai

they exploit our workers and do not pay them proper wages, they make girls degrade themselves in horrific stuff like onlyfans, they support terrorism and genocide all across the globe

[night basin]

I am not into your culture war, whoever ruling, my family will get harmed by your regime (speaking as direct victim of US ally intelligence service operation) 🙂

Empire be empire, whatever cosplay they wear

[cyan silo]

oh man I am so sorry but I am not talking about culture war.

[cyan silo]

The day washington turns communist these things will not happen anymore

[night basin]

Hahaha, nope, as long as the structure and geopolitics demand it, it always happen, even USSR did this because structure and geopolitics demand empire maintenance

[cyan silo]

USSR was not an empire

and USSR was never imperalist

anyway where are you from?

[night basin]

It is an empire, spanning Eurasia and most of the second world, and it is imperialism lmao

[cyan silo]

how the hell is the soviet union imperalist?

no do explain

[dreamy crag]

Even as someone who defends the ussr more than most leftists, it was fucking imperialist

[night basin]

Kazakhstan, Poland, Czech, Afghanistan yes it is less imperialist than US because they're limited in reach, but still imperialist

[night basin]

Somewhere that Israeli take as as serious enemy

[cyan silo]

no how the fuck was it imperalist

[fallen mango]

👀

[cyan silo]

iran

?

[night basin]

Not Iran, we are not even involved in middle east mess

Serious enough they have sent agents to harm intelligentsia in my country, as part of proxy war

Confirmed by the state intelligence apparatus who basically intervene and intelligentsia network

[cyan silo]

it was doing imperalism in afganisthan? bro what?
afganistan was controlled by islamist extremists back then, mujaheds, feudalists...ussr transformed the country..even kabul polytechnic institute was made by the soviets..they foguht with the soviets hand in hand

what the hell do you mean?

[night basin]

Invasion is not imperialism?

And wdym they're islamist when they were stabilizing themselves in 1980s, USSR basically promote coup on other country to serve their interest there

[cyan silo]

invasion for the purpose of exploitation and systemic degradation is imperalism

[night basin]

Moving goalpost I see

[cyan silo]

soviet union did not invade afganisthan to exploit it

i am not, it invaded afganisthan (more like attempt at liberation)
but it did not invade afganisthan to serve its imperial ambitions, it invaded afganisthan to simply liberate their people and gain a gateway towards the middle east and to crush extremism like the mujahids

[cyan silo]

by your logic india supporting sekh mujibur rahman was imperalist and therefore india is a imperalist nation

invasion does not equate imperialism

[fallen mango]

what is that pfp?

[night basin]

No, what I am talking is, don't ignore the imperialism that Soviet did in eastern Europe, central Asia and other places, they're indeed less imperialist yes, but it is because they need to serve their persona as someone who are fighting against western imperialism

[cyan silo]

umm ill explain later

[night basin]

Soviet is lesser evil, but don't ignore their evil too, holodomor and central Asia heavily disagree with you here

No one is pure evil or pure good

[cyan silo]

but imperalism means systemic exploitation, but ussr did the opposite, they erased the local culture. yes, but they did not exploit any nations, rather modernized it, as well as rebuilt under a soviet framework

[night basin]

I guess eastern European and central Asia don't exist in your argument

I am out, this is not productive, even as direct victim of US empire I also won't call US pure evil at this point

[cyan silo]

It indeed does, but again when did ussr economically exploit any eastern european nation?

[storm sage]

the us wasn't imperialist, it erased the local culture, yes, but it did not exploit any nations, rather modernized them, as well as integrated them into a global free trade network

[inner canopy]

I got ragebaited

[cyan silo]

but wher are you from

[odd narwhal]

If they haven't told you by now it's not any of your business

[cyan silo]

yea...us isnt imperalist..i do agree

[storm sage]

bahahahahaha

[cerulean sage]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-ragebait-rage-bait-jarvis-clip-that-jarvis-meme-gif-11046632004782930587

[cyan silo]

US has some imperalistic characteristics but as a whole it is not an imperalist nation in my opinion

i mean they do invade entire nations and couped iran for oil

for profit basically.

but still i treat them more as intervensionists than fully imperalist, they do economic exploitation but they do it indirectly, and its mostly US deepstate insititutions that do it rather than the nation itself

[night basin]

Warsaw pact, eastern Europe and central Asia are basically de facto USSR vassal states, have you seen how they send tanks to Czech when they wanted reform, and about Afghanistan, the fact that they couped Afghanistan government for their own interests is also imperialism, I'll at most say that Soviet in empire game is lesser evil yes, but still imperialist

[elfin bramble]

Not all about oil. I can't stand it when people overcocus on one variable. So so so dumb yet they think they sound serious and sometimes others will listen to them as though they're serious.
What about the nuclear program? What about Israel?

You're no better than the people who claim the war in Iran is just a way for trump to keep epstein out of the news cycle.

[cyan silo]

what about whose nuclear program? elaborate please

[night basin]

And about your indian point, yes every country has its evil side, no one is pure, only God is pure good and only devil is pure evil, applying purity to human entities is never going to work

[night basin]

Sorry wrong ping, this is for you, I'll stop here because it is clear you're moving goalposts @cyan silo

[cyan silo]

no im not arguing about good or evil

[night basin]

You're arguing about imperialism, I'll say USSR still imperialist with historical evidence even if arguably lesser evil

Have you seen what they did in Spain 1938

Eastern Europe and central Asia 1922-1991

I am saying this as someone whose country USSR heavily helped against US imperialism, albeit we broke up at some point

[cyan silo]

what I am saying is soviet union was not inherently imperalistic or exploitive

[dreamy crag]

@cyan silo do you like Regan?

[night basin]

Cambodia, Vietnam, Syria, south Yemen, Angola, the list goes on and on

[neat lintel]

hm it is communist.

[cyan silo]

no

[night basin]

Imperialism isn't inherent only in "globalist" US (whatever that means), it is what's happening when humans think that exploiting others is more beneficial than cooperation

[cyan silo]

i like modern republicans tho

[cyan silo]

only us leader I like is trump

[night basin]

Even trump is doing this

No one is pure

[young dagger]

Guys uhh how do I tell my parents that I cant study and get a medal at IMO if I havent studied shit for olympiad level mathematics and wont magically develop everything required in 1 year.

[glossy marlin]

interesting... someone similar got famous like 80 to 90 years ago, what do you think of that guy´s politics

[thorn aurora]

Hello my friend @wise mulch is struggling and he needs help

[teal portal]

Are your parents mathematicians?

[ionic wraith]

You should!

Also oh shit I just realized I did my analysis on OECD-WTO Balanced Trade in Services dataset (BaTIS) but there also a OECD Balanced International Merchandise Trade dataset (BIMTS) dataset that I should do these analyses on

[magic python]

What qualifies as a "third gender" in some culture? Is it literally just anything not fitting into the main binary a culture has?

[brittle jasper]

Tell your parents to get a job at Jane Street, them not working there ever prior will pose no problems

[magic python]

Surely there is more nuance, right?

[cursive ember]

hello

[vast wraith]

<@&268886789983436800>

[glossy marlin]

-# "third gender" being "any gender our culture doesn´t accept" feels weird but maybe. some cultures have a gender ternary or such.

[magic python]

Are you just dense?

[vast wraith]

[magic python]

I never thought I'd actually see anyone that dense before

[bright hill]

There's no place for transphobia here, dude

[magic python]

I mean two spirited is accepted in indigenous culture...

[unborn meteor]

nooo i missed it

[magic python]

Is there such thing as depression and antidepressants

[unborn meteor]

that guy is muted lol i think

[magic python]

Nooooo they were muted my analogy will have to wait for the next idiot

[unborn meteor]

also wait car

[magic python]

Yeah?

[bright hill]

We would rather you don't engage bigots and transphobes

[old oak]

Won't be long (but also yeah, what DarQ said)

[unborn meteor]

check out B2ac/S12c vs B2ac4e/S12c

[magic python]

Aw

[unborn meteor]

rare case of 4e changing a rule completely

[unborn meteor]

this message is worthy of an opencry for the original and an opencry for the edit

[magic python]

I'd take the mute just to make the analogy, I'll keep my eyes out

[magic python]

IT ADDS SHIPS THAT ARENT STRETCHERS AND MAKES IT LESS EXPLOSIVE

[unborn meteor]

wait wtf

i don't remember that

[magic python]

Wait no removing 4e does that

Not the other way around

[ionic wraith]

[magic python]

What even is the point of "gender" on passports. It literally tells you nothing. Nothing about how the person looks.

Like what is the actual use???

(Im guessing it's literally nothing outside of making it easier for discrimination)

"You don't look like the gender it says on here so you must be evil and something!1!!1!1!!"

[sharp sage]

Good old bigotry

[magic python]

Ah I love when transphobia directly harms gender non-conforming people and indirectly harms a lot of others

[vast wraith]

yeah it’s simply a crystal clear case of systemic gender policing

[magic python]

Yay I love this world...

With all the news I'm hearing I'm almost happy I'm infertile and that surgery seems like such a far away possibility.

I mean adoption sounds nicer anyways, I wouldn't need to deal with the younger stages

Though realistically I both don't deserve a child nor do I feel like I'd care for one properly

[ionic wraith]

I remember because I was more femme but still gender ambiguous due to my deep voice, Qatari officials demanded I show my passport and looked at it and let me go

I feel like it would have been a shittier situation if I had F on it

But the more I pass, having M will be the shittier situation

I should have challenged my dad when he said he was putting M on my passport renewal form during the 2nd year of Biden’s term

[vast wraith]

guh

[magic python]

Yeah it's insane how much such a useless* piece of information is treated as being needed

* useless as in it has no use in identification, it is very useful for the person.

[ionic wraith]

[magic python]

Like for crying out loud I've heard it gets used medically

Not even sex is very useful there from what I know

"Oh yeah they had smaller genitals when they were born, that totally tells us what we need to operate on them"

Wish I failed sex icl

[glossy marlin]

yeah, not super useful, what matters is always different, some stuff is incredibly hard to figure out...

[magic python]

Wait it does have use..? What does it even really tell you?

Oh I guess it can be useful for like very young people

maybe I should get into medical research and try to help girls be able to have kids

or boys and enbies, it shouldn't be gatekept

[upper ivy]

hello, i would love to learn mathematics from scratch on my own, can anyone help, cuz in highschool, its not taught very nicely, atleast where i live, can anyone help me with a rough roadmap

[magic python]

Try #study-discussion and don't paste the same message across multiple channels without being asked, I know some people are less likely to respond if they see others do it.

[glossy marlin]

it´s a shorthand for all characteristics of the big clusters in the high-dimensional gender-and-such state space at once and sets some expectations, but doesn´t actually tell you very much.

[upper ivy]

thank you and yes, sorry

[magic python]

Sex correlates to gender???

[glossy marlin]

not very strongly...

[sharp sage]

hey you stole that idea from me

[magic python]

Then why is it useful in the gender state space

[sharp sage]

How strong exactly? I know for sure most ppl on earth identify as the same gender as their agab

[magic python]

to be fair, identifying as a gender doesn't for sure make you the gender, look at all the people groomed and forced to be cis

Plus sex doesn't tell you much about how the body works internally

[sharp sage]

~~like how many of them are actually groomed? ~~

[sharp sage]

Elaborate?

[glossy marlin]

idk like 3% /hj

[magic python]

Chromosomal abnormalities can cause your body to be vastly different whilst having the same sex as others.