serious-discussion

[neat lintel]

after my psychotic break I got diagnosed bipolar disorder then I have been trying to relax as much as possible

[thick ocean]

dissociative disorders and bipolar also tend to go hand in hand, so it can also always be both

[dreamy crag]

thats good at least, i hope things get better

[vernal silo]

Whats the serious discussion chat

[dreamy crag]

dissosiative disorders mainly

[weak shadow]

memory gaps and dissasociation are actually easy to identify, for the trained eye. Basically, dissasociation is recent and whenever you try to recall you blank out entirely for that time, old memory gaps have an idea of what happened with fading over time

[vernal silo]

Ive suspected both bdp and did earlier

[pallid roost]

I don't know if this just implies, ego should've rather been a shield than just a mask.
Or a whole castle.

[magic python]

Intrusive thoughts coming up seemed to start random other issues like walking being weird sometimes, until it became all the time

[weak shadow]

intrusive thoughts are normal, having them very frequently isn't

[weak shadow]

ngl the meds have chilled me out and I have been symptom free for 2 years now, or something like that

[magic python]

They weren't frequent exactly, only like half an hour to an hour for a week or so straight and then having a gap between the next occurance

[thick ocean]

if you're attentive enough they're not a problem yeah, but disso also tends to have the effect of actively making you introspect less

[vernal silo]

Btw I've read some of the messages since I was last here. I agree with the others that seeking help should not be based on whether you think you need it or not

It was irresponsible on my end to eventually say "fair enough" so im sorry about that

[magic python]

But my body decided to fuck with them during it

[weak shadow]

then again the meds I'm on are a max dose of basically a horse tranquilizer so

[pallid roost]

Have you guys played Omori?

[neat lintel]

it is hard to relate to neurotypical people, and I get attached easily so my heart is in pieces when I am aware that I'm built different and they will never understand me and what I went through

[dreamy crag]

mhm

[magic python]

Huh? It's fine, it's not like I'm going to die in a month

[neat lintel]

that is nice!

[vernal silo]

Yeah i know its just principle 😭

[pallid roost]

I wanted to know your views, or anyone's, it's a game many told I shouldn't try playing cuz it's too personal to me.
But I still wanna know what it really is about.

[weak shadow]

more typical people get .5 of a mg with similarly diagnosed ppl getting like 5-10 mg and I got 200mg 💀

[vernal silo]

Are you... alive?

[weak shadow]

yes

[magic python]

"Yeah let's have you feel like someone is hugging and comforting you randomly while you are walking and let me associate this sensation with that girl you made up"

[vernal silo]

What meds?

[weak shadow]

Seroquel, the infamous one for making people chronically tired

[dreamy crag]

ok so you will not have the best experience if you go in spoiled. its an amazing game but it is quite heavy

[weak shadow]

wherein I am not

[true zinc]

somehow for us we're hyperaware of every single thing that happens and we obsessively track them to constantly check *multiple times a day) whether we're faking (not just one thing hence being vague) or not

[pallid roost]

I rather wanna be spoiled, I don't think I'll come back the same if I actually played it

I can barely survive people's emotions, how could I survive a game with loads of it?

[dreamy crag]

then i wouldnt recomend it

[weak shadow]

sometimes the whole bipolar part makes me not able to sleep with one dose so I take 2

[pallid roost]

But if this is about myself, I need to know.

[dreamy crag]

fucked us up for a few months

[magic python]

I do wonder why the intrusive thoughts always had the same girl (outside of one part being a strange black humanoid figure) and not just random people

[pallid roost]

I... See

[weak shadow]

or its me not setting up for bed enough

[pallid roost]

Games like these... It's art alright but..

[true zinc]

Yes it is...heavy

[dreamy crag]

undertale gives similar levels of emotions but is happy!!

[magic python]

Hey atleast I get to hate on a fake girl who is weird

[pallid roost]

It's about friendship imagery is it?

[weak shadow]

probably a trans related dream, its common for transfems

[vernal silo]

Have you met said girl before?

[dreamy crag]

id recomend it way more

[magic python]

... no

[pallid roost]

Then Ig it's my time I finally confront it, Imma search it

[magic python]

Ew so my mind thinks I'm going to be a weirdo trying to force a relationship on someone? That's crazy

[neat lintel]

our time

[magic python]

Never even seen anybody reminiscing of her

Or even her style

[vernal silo]

How does she look like?

[neat lintel]

lol "my time" is a song from omori right?

[true zinc]

I haven't been able to sleep at night the last week due to this very amazing terrifying demon in our vision if we try to sleep

[pallid roost]

no, no no, omori, not your imagination.

[weak shadow]

uh no, that person is you

[pallid roost]

it's his imagination then?

[weak shadow]

why do you think its a non descript female you are persuing

[pallid roost]

oh dear, why do these games exist?!

[magic python]

I can only remember that she has this weird green hood thing, I don't know clothing types so I couldn't explain further. I can only remember how they look during the intrusive imagery

[dreamy crag]

ok i actualy fucking hate pink so much oh my god, she keeps on (tw: mentions of drugs) ||taking lsd before bed and i actuayl cant even fucking see 2 inches from my face becasue im halucinating the Shapes|| diksafjklasdjfklasdjfkladksl i wanna fucking kill her omg

[weak shadow]

its likely its you if you haven;t transitioned, if you have its probably a lesbian dream or smth

[magic python]

That person tried to force me into a relationship. That's what I'm saying.

[weak shadow]

crazy

[dreamy crag]

because theyre peak

[true zinc]

TW: ||Mentions of...whatever fucking eldrich horror we keep seeing in our vision|| -> ||a figure, I'd say 1.7 metres tall, nebulous, it's hard to gauge what they're wearing, their face alternates between that of a human and that of a horrifying eldrich horror, and in their hand is a metal rod, 2.5 metres long, held in one hand, the longer I look at him, the metal rod begins to glow, then arc, as if passing an electrical current, and I know that if I do not force the emergency protocol built in within us to wake up immediately, that creature will decide to smite us off the face of the earth and right into the deepest pits of hell for daring to not finish our writings, for cheating in class, for being so horrible to our family||

[true zinc]

OH MY GODS THAT IS AWFULLLLLL

[pallid roost]

this is.. painful, i can't... why?
Why must one's imagination be crushed?

[dreamy crag]

i wanna just like do math and stufffff but i cant

[vernal silo]

Could be reminiscent of a fictional character youve seen before? Maybe in a video game or novel or something?

[magic python]

Atleast the only time it tried to be physical was the first time where I was able to push them away and just treat them like a clingy child

[magic python]

Nope not that I recall, and the personality of them isn't I any media I consume, atleast not often

[vernal silo]

Bad trip?

[neat lintel]

I used to imagine a shadow like guy when I was little. sort of like an imaginary friend I named them 'nobody'

[dreamy crag]

also feels like there are (tw: aracniphobia and other cool bugs) ||spiders and centepiedes under and on my skin|| which is really distracting

[vernal silo]

So its a fully fletched out person that hasn't got an iota of reference to your real life?

[pallid roost]

After seeing Omori, well...
If imagination is played so much like a game many thought of likewise in reality, so be it, I will live two worlds, and play two kinds of games, and end it.

[dreamy crag]

this is normal after we take halucinigenics

[magic python]

Nope. And based on the second half of the first interaction, it seems like I made up them killing themselves..? Idk it's hard to figure out what my mind was doing

[vernal silo]

Yes im aware

Maybe best not to take lsd lol

[dreamy crag]

I KNOW, I DONT WNAT TO

its entirely her fault and she never deals with the aftermath

[sharp sage]

Why am i hearing ppl tripping in here

[pallid roost]

And then maybe nobody has to enforce recreation of such experiences as art, everyone would be happier and safer yet to explore.

[vernal silo]

Lsd isnt addictive so

[dreamy crag]

she likes it

[magic python]

Dude. Do you know what plurality is.

They didn't take it, someone else did.

[weak shadow]

idk yell at her ig

[dreamy crag]

we have

[magic python]

And now they are stuck with the aftermath.

[vernal silo]

My bad. Didnt know

[weak shadow]

did u try and get rid of the lsd

like find and get rid of it

[vernal silo]

I mean I know what plurslity is I just didnt know they were plural

[magic python]

They said someone else did it earlier...

[dreamy crag]

she hides things, mainly knives and drugs, so while we try to, its hard

[vernal silo]

Right and I was confused

[true zinc]

A lot of the time I feel like the other people in my head are nothing more than hand-glove puppets that I control and that I just delude myself into thinking I'm mentally ill

[weak shadow]

when in reality u dont control them, ya its a common feeling

its just ur brain gaslighting yourself

[magic python]

Sometimes I wish she was still there because it was a free way to just snap at someone and have it be valid

[true zinc]

Does she have any hiding spots she tends to frequently prefer? If so, make those difficult to use, impractical, etc...

[true zinc]

Yeah about that, I feel like me telling myself that I'm gaslighting myself is the real gaslighting tbf

[magic python]

But alas, I can't visualize anything properly outside of those experiences so I am locked out of it

[dreamy crag]

shes actualy the worst.
antics in the past year include: (tw: um a lot, just dont open if ur sensitive) ||trying to get picked up by a 40 year old, emotionaly manipulating one of our gfs into nearly killing herself, nearly getting us sent to a ward multiple times, camming online to strangers (adults) and then telling people about it which would make us lose all our electronics and probably get sent away||

[weak shadow]

it is, u cant fake physical sensations and theres a physical sensation during switches that is commonly felt amongst almost everyone with DID

[dreamy crag]

kinda? shes used the basement a few times, but there are easily over 50 masive boxes so its really hard to access all of them before our parents find us (and yell at us for searching threw it) ((yes we tell them what we are doing, they dont belive us))

[weak shadow]

type shit, I didnt need to be a system to do the 1st and 5th things xd, but that be some crazy ass stuff

[magic python]

Maybe a good use for LLMs would be me just yelling at one

After all, just like the girl I made up, it doesn't have real feelings, but it has the illusion of them

[thick ocean]

ah yes, recklessness in a person container, the classic

[true zinc]

Holy shit, we've ended up doing 1, 2, 4, 5, and at-least 2 of those have caused long lasting nightmares and trauma we're still sifting through years later, just...wow, we're sorry 🫂

[true zinc]

Recklessness the concept when placed into a flesh and blood container

[dreamy crag]

she also has a lot of memories that she just refuses to write down in our journal, which makes it hard to knows whats happened to us

so yeah, 0/10, fucking hate her

[thick ocean]

headspace jail for that one

[dreamy crag]

and then shes also dating natalie??? so like,,, nats wont help us with her

[dreamy crag]

weve tried stuff like that, its only worked for ko-vu, who was somehow worse

[weak shadow]

u should get a location tracker

[dreamy crag]

yeah probably

[weak shadow]

so u can track the history of ur location

[true zinc]

I was just about to suggest this

[dreamy crag]

we just dont have any money, and our parents only get us video games and some clothes

[neat lintel]

if u have a phone doesn't it location track like automatically?

[thick ocean]

i think you could set something up with google location stuffs?

[weak shadow]

then how do they manage to get their hands on some of the drugs

[dreamy crag]

...sex

[true zinc]

Probably ||sexual favours||, trades, or...well a bunch of different ways

[true zinc]

oh well that answers that

[weak shadow]

knowing how much pedos pay, that more than definitely explains it

[dreamy crag]

yep

the moment we find out who and where its happening were gonna get the entire fucking local pd to do something

[weak shadow]

u should probably search ur phone for evidence of it

[dreamy crag]

i dont care if that hasent worked the last 4 times weves tried soemthing, if we get video proof they have to, right???

[thick ocean]

cw: very bad taste joke
||so i ended up being groomed for nothing when i could have gotten paid? man,,,||

[dreamy crag]

we have

[true zinc]

[weak shadow]

TRUTH, but I did end up getting paid xd

[true zinc]

We ended up with someone trying to pay us through various means, buy us things we wanted, etc... or even get us a plane ticket to where they lived and shit

I think this is the one time how absolutely batshit our family is with tracking and whatever actually saved us

[dreamy crag]

damn, happy you didnt get kidnapped at least...

[true zinc]

The worst part is we were 17 at the time and this continued after we turned 18, so if something bad happened after we did turn 18, there';s very little that could've been done

[dreamy crag]

ah true... 🫂 /nf

[true zinc]

🫂 /nf

[quick beacon]

Not to minimize or anything, but this is a channel that is open to all users, and I'm very sure this topic is really not appropriate for random 13 year olds to walk into

[thick ocean]

oh, yeah that one is extra extra dangerous, i know that kind of scenario, literally the one time that tracking is justified

[dreamy crag]

true. srry

[latent edge]

Downsides of moderating this channel

[true zinc]

<@&268886789983436800>

[latent edge]

Omni barely left

[wanton heart]

YOU SHOULD TELL THEM TO BAN INVERSE TRIGNOMENTYR

[quick beacon]

And self harm jokes are also not appropriate

[wanton heart]

oh sry gng i didnt meant it in any way

[magic python]

This is a serious channel too btw

Like for non math stuff

[wanton heart]

@quick beacon if i get banned then im failing my inverse trignometry , i will hunt for you if i fail so yea

[wanton heart]

you say NO MATHS?

[magic python]

"Higher quality than discussion or chill"

[magic python]

If it is math, it should be of quality.

[opal isle]

i think they know and they just want to start shit

[magic python]

Oh they probably do

[dreamy crag]

please... read

[wanton heart]

whats your pronouns

[dreamy crag]

oh wait fuck, i need my doc

[latent edge]

I think they just want to vent about hating trigonometry for all the wrong reasons

[thick ocean]

honestly, this is the funniest possible response

[wanton heart]

your purple shard told me to ask your pronouns

[dreamy crag]

check my status+bio

[neat lintel]

i saw the sin

[wanton heart]

i can sacrifice my life to delete trignometry and make this world a better place

[magic python]

Wait I can't meow in this channel, because it's serious, right?

[dreamy crag]

you dont realize how many things you like require being able to see until you bascialy lose that abilikty

[neat lintel]

activate the meow mode first :3

[wanton heart]

what are you a pokemon?

[dreamy crag]

not funny :3

[magic python]

That is not funny wtf

[thick ocean]

the pains of being trans + plural + non-binary: the genuine desire for a pronoun system comparable to nobility honorifics in complexity just so it feels right to exist

[true zinc]

YES

[dreamy crag]

i should not be the one writing this

[true zinc]

one moment

[wanton heart]

i didnt ask a it/has/have/had/will/be/a/an/they/then/dang/bang/gang/

[latent edge]

Mamma mia

[magic python]

<@&268886789983436800> the fuck..?

[wanton heart]

how can you be a PUP

[thick ocean]

<@&268886789983436800>, need you

[true zinc]

<@&268886789983436800>

[magic python]

Pathetic ass child over here

[dreamy crag]

becasue pup pronouns are cool and cute and peak

[silent junco]

bye bye

[true zinc]

I am going to actually KILL ryan I swear to gods (and not for the 15 other things I said I'd kill her for)

[dreamy crag]

(defeinilty not biased, definitly not dating shammy )

[thick ocean]

glory to the gods of this realm for smiting our enemies

[magic python]

And they made a suicide joke in chill as well earlier....

[latent edge]

tfw u hate on trigonometry and then double down on doing transphobic speech

[neat lintel]

there should be a honey pot channel where people get auto banned for chatting in. filter all the noise

[silent junco]

also james this is a request to calm down and seek help if you need it. either way, we cant have this sort of thing in the server. its not your fault but we just arent equipped to deal with this. i hope things get better.

[delicate mulch]

Call that triggeredonometry hahahaa please end me

[true zinc]

Sorry, I just needed to get whatever the hell I just saw off my chest that just cause me to get very very angry, I will not be discussing it in depth here

[thick ocean]

it's honestly kind of sad how many people basically think that provoking people is equal to comedy

[weak shadow]

literal children

[true zinc]

I do not get the point of ragebait

[magic python]

People need to make up imaginary friends to provoke and hate like I did.

[lost spruce]

I joybait

[weak shadow]

meanwhile most of us chatting here got robbed of being able to be children

[gusty socket]

this was discussed a while ago and nothing came of it, probably would just not be worth the trouble for a server of this size

[lost spruce]

we should just ban everybody

[silent junco]

thanks for understanding. sending love and prayers

[true zinc]

[lost spruce]

it would be quite fun

[dreamy crag]

"i said something that made you upset, and now you are upset! i am truely a comidian"

[opal isle]

a honeypot channel would only really kill chat bots and not actual people who look at their screens to troll

[neat lintel]

well I'll take your word for it I guess, what is the issue? people would complain and want to be unbanned?

[true zinc]

Also fwiw I will say, me crashing out at Ryan was something I'll deal with internally, I just needed to scream before I ended up just imploding irl, sorry about flooding everyone's screens ith that

[lost spruce]

call it the grand purge ™ and if you die in discord we show up at your door and kick you

[true zinc]

honeycomb mind if we dm you something

[delicate mulch]

Well, I am tempted by every single honey pot channel I see

[gusty socket]

this is the first thought that comes to my mind these days yeah

[dreamy crag]

go right ahead!

[true zinc]

wrong reply?

[lost spruce]

a seal for your troubles

[dreamy crag]

yes

[true zinc]

seaml!

[sharp sage]

... What did i just walk into.

[thick ocean]

there's ragebait in the sense of actively wanting to get a ruse out of a friend by gently poking at small disagreements
and there's ragebait that's just "haha minority bad" in a public forum with several of those exact people surrounding you
not being able to distinguish between these two is why a lot of people do this

the world is shades of grey

[dreamy crag]

i spilled tea everywhere because i cant FUCKIUNG SEE,,, if only there was someone i could blame this on and throw into the void,,,

[neat lintel]

fair, but probably people complaining to be unbanned aren't worth the hassle. would be super annoying to be a mod and getting dmed by a bunch of trolls asking to be unbanned, but that is part of being a mod idk that's all I have

[magic python]

This already happens

Why can't they just make up someone to hate instead of hating minorities though, it can't be that hard.

[dreamy crag]

or just hate people who desrive hate, like antiintelecutals, billionares, or pink

[magic python]

You can make someone up who deserves hate as well, like what i did

[thick ocean]

i mean, if you look at basically any competitive game with chat you'll see how ridiculously prevalent punching down is in every possible angle

[true zinc]

I sent the thing, check your dms when you hve a sec

[weak shadow]

interesting to see so many fellow systems in a strange place

[magic python]

Toxicity is a skill issue in gamers methinks

[weak shadow]

odd that a math server is where theres a bunch xd

[thick ocean]

actively harms their chances to win!

[magic python]

Lots of users are here ig?

[magic python]

Indeed

[dreamy crag]

mhm! just takes me a bit to read causue i have to use myscrean erader

[magic python]

Wait i said that wrong, this server is well populated.

[thick ocean]

i always held you have to be at least a bit mentally ill/neurodivergent to like maths specifically

[true zinc]

ye that's fair

[opal isle]

[neat lintel]

yeah

[dreamy crag]

(also the halucinations are getting worse, shapes are spinning much fucking faster and i feel nausous, gonna try and close my eyes and rpretend i dont feeel the bugs and stuff)

[thick ocean]

and i like being proven right again and again

[weak shadow]

are you high right now or is it something else

[true zinc]

We've been hallucinating like crazy recently but I think that's due to someone deciding it's a good idea to not sleep more than 2-3hrs a night for a week

[thick ocean]

go rest, probably best thing to do rn

[dreamy crag]

heavy withdrawlls

[weak shadow]

oof

[dreamy crag]

worst weve ever had

[latent edge]

I also hallucinate but mine are mathematical schizophrenics

[sharp sage]

...

[thick ocean]

manic episode

like, extremely clearly

[weak shadow]

ya its probably gonna be rough for the next few weeks, just try and soldier on

[dreamy crag]

ill try

[weak shadow]

not nessecarily, dont be quick to assume, it can present differently with DID

[dreamy crag]

(im pressing my face against the screen so i can see it lol, this probably looks erally funny)

[weak shadow]

could be insomnia or just staying up too late

[thick ocean]

sometimes the crank in you is what you need to use to do something great

[weak shadow]

with split consciouness its just too hard to know the full context especially when its not the host thats doing it

[thick ocean]

i have other reasons than just that one message tbf, but fair

[dreamy crag]

why can halucinations cause overstimulation? this isnt fair

[sharp sage]

Its 2 am rn do i sleep or play cookie clicker

[weak shadow]

even then it could be another disorder, like paranoia or hallucinations that cause fear and thus low sleep

[magic python]

Because the body and mind are cruel entities that can do whatever they want sometimes

[dreamy crag]

true...

[magic python]

If only there was a way to show them who is the boss

Wait I guess there are some ways

[weak shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-squidward-krusty-krab-training-video-poop-gif-13429955355820746777

[dreamy crag]

my hands are shaking to much to play video games, i cant see enough to read fanfic, and my legs arent fucking moving, so ima just listen to stardew videos (@shark3143 if ur wondering) and cry for a few hours

[magic python]

... what

[dreamy crag]

brb yall

[weak shadow]

its the gif of squidward banging his head on the register

[magic python]

Oh that only punishes the body, not the mind

[weak shadow]

my mind used to punish me enough, it awarded me with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder at once

the fabled schizoaffective disorder

[magic python]

The mind is a cruel entity

[dreamy crag]

my hands arent moving so im stuck in this chat

my fingers can still move tho, so i can yap

[thick ocean]

tbh i would usually jump to this conclusion when it's something like we have:
starts project without deadline, scope creep, everything that's not working on it feels like torture, sleep gives nightmares that it needs to be done or else, frontstuck, increasing stress off of it not being finished despite me being the only one extending it, etc

[magic python]

Okay I won't punish my body because it is deciding me saying that means I deserve punishment

[dreamy crag]

holding the mouse in my mouth, call me a cat or smtn

[thick ocean]

and it has to be done or we will suffer Great Consequences (no proof, unspecified)

[weak shadow]

for me its the whole running at 2 thousand miles an hour, staying up for days and weeks at a time, having major dips of energy during the day that make you wanna (tw) ||kill yourself|| during the crash resulting in feeling hopeless and crying and sobbing for it to stop as well as spending all of your money

and irritability

[thick ocean]

irritability is a massive one yeah

[weak shadow]

as well as the way they word things is another indicator

an asking targeted specifically worded questions towards them

[thick ocean]

tbh the last time we had anything similar was also the time we started healing from trauma and having divinity psychosis shenanigans

so that's probably related

[weak shadow]

def related

[dreamy crag]

(tw: bugs) ||i can feel things crawling in my teeth and eyes, i might fucking throw up, this is so miserable||

[thick ocean]

on one hand i miss that

on the other, no i was miserable

[weak shadow]

for me I was dissasociating hard and somewhat deep into an alcohol addiction, so i drank and it resulted in (tw self harm) || a month long psychotic episode where i would patrol at noght for someone in the walls, cry and be inable to sleep resulting in drawing with my blood on the walls||

[dreamy crag]

yeah those suck, im sorry u went thru those 🫂 /nf

[weak shadow]

as well as a bunch of delusions sprinkles with some hallucinations

[weak shadow]

preceded by a month of high switch frequency mania, on and off all month then the next month that happenedp

mania can be a bitch

and absolutely miserable but i would go outside frequently and try and make myself happier

[flat karma]

what serious topic is on

[latent edge]

True

[thick ocean]

the weirdest thing about mania is when a specific episode actively benefits your life overall and you start chasing it despite the consequences

[weak shadow]

truth nuke, I started trying to date people while i was on a school trip 💀

ultimately drugs were never a thing for me because the dopamine dump of mania was enough

I used to chase it abit then weighed the good and the bad and stopped

[full hornet]

i dont get manic episodes i just have the version of depression where its constant

[latent edge]

Manic episodes are very common for me

[weak shadow]

that just sounds like chronic depression

[full hornet]

yeah i forgot the name

[weak shadow]

MDD

[weak shadow]

they used to be semi common for me until the incident

now im on 200mg of seroquel

[thick ocean]

tbh I wish I could figure out a way to function in society

[weak shadow]

medicine

[latent edge]

I never used any antidepressants or whatever fwiw

[full hornet]

i have a psychiatrist appt on monday maybe ill get antidepressants ^-^

[thick ocean]

the prospect of being forced to get a job in the next few weeks scares me

[weak shadow]

seroquel is an antipsychotic and mood stabilizer with the average dose being .5mg to 10 mg

[thick ocean]

i have some gigs, but I tend to be physically unable to do even mental work for more than 4h per day

[weak shadow]

and those doses apparently cause chronic fatigue

[thick ocean]

physical more like 1h

[weak shadow]

y

[latent edge]

Yeah I know I was talking about antidepressants

[weak shadow]

gg

[thick ocean]

20h/week minimum wage at current spending is somehow enough to still have some left over per month though

[weak shadow]

me either

[latent edge]

Last 2 summers I was forced to get a job

The summer ended and I still haven't found any

[thick ocean]

classic

[thick ocean]

tbh antidepressants were probably the main reason why this happened for me, was on them for like a year too long imo

[weak shadow]

I havent had any issues with jobs personally, I currently do hold a seasonal job which is refferee for hockey for $45-150 an hour, I do need a summer job tho

which is,, surprising given the amount of shit my brain put me through

[thick ocean]

all I have is AI gigs at more like 20$/h 😔

[thick ocean]

how do you look for those btw? i'm guessing sometimes the best way is to straight up walk around town looking for announcements on the side of random shops

[weak shadow]

look for which

[thick ocean]

seasonal jobs as a whole

linkedin/indeed/local job postings here tend to mostly have only permanent positions listed, and i'm not sure if they're even real

[weak shadow]

thats where I get them xd

[thick ocean]

makes sense

[cedar shore]

I take inspiration from what my seniors / alumnis do or what my batch mates find in uni for job postings

[thick ocean]

there's a massive neet crisis near me so not surprising i'm in this state tbh

not visibly disabled but visibly enough to come off as lazy + trans --> automatic rejection is a true combo here

[weak shadow]

i just lie about being trans or anything like that

[thick ocean]

Voice doesn't pass 😔

[weak shadow]

so on paper i am a perfectly healthy, not only functioning but capable adult

[true zinc]

I am in paaaaaaaaaaain today

[thick ocean]

there's def a feeling i made a mistake with wanting to go to academia

but also: pure maths is the only thing i really excel at, so why not try anyways?

[true zinc]

This is how I feel with TCS stuff rn

[weak shadow]

as long as robits still die to extreme radiation levels i have job security

[thick ocean]

(answer: research funding crisis similar to basically any other standard industry overhiring for a while in effect)

[weak shadow]

whats your major

mathematics?

[thick ocean]

integrated masters in maths

[true zinc]

<- comp sci here

[weak shadow]

zamn

[thick ocean]

general maths, but i basically only did pure maths modules

[weak shadow]

I'm a HP major, health physics

[dreamy crag]

🫂 /nf

[true zinc]

everything aches when I move ughhhhhh

I'm surprised I've not had a fit of muscle spasms yet...or seizures...or a migraine

[thick ocean]

i quickly noticed i sucked at any applied maths, and statistics was frustrating all the time, so pure maths was what remained

[true zinc]

but I know that now that I've said that my evening is going to go flying out the window when my body realizes it is time to be evil

[true zinc]

Statistics

[thick ocean]

hey, at least you know to take it easy

[weak shadow]

i like physics math so,,,, particle physics it is for me

[true zinc]

All bets are off the second I end up switching out

[true zinc]

fellow qft enjoyer 👀

[thick ocean]

my problem with statistics wasn't that i wasn't good at it
it was that i was taught extremely badly

[true zinc]

(okay you'd have to talk to Ryan about that, not me, I'm just the silly automata nerd)

[weak shadow]

technically, I study the kind of particles that will kill you

in the most vile way we know

[true zinc]

ah yes, I love beta and gamma radiation

[weak shadow]

yep, I specifically study actue radiation poisoning syndrome and how people die from it

[thick ocean]

krohn-rhodes theory bomb incoming

[weak shadow]

the photos are gruesome

[true zinc]

Oh I used to read papers on this stuff when I was younger and...somewhat more tolerant of gruesome and morbid deaths

[true zinc]

algebraic automata noises

[thick ocean]

Studying the worst kind of death huh

[true zinc]

I still don't get any of the semigroup DFA stuff Ryan was reading about

[weak shadow]

it is the most greusome death known to humankind... my tism designated it as my interest so

[heavy pagoda]

pure maths is the only thing i am really good at

[weak shadow]

the study of people dying to random incidents with the most horrific burns it is

[heavy pagoda]

but i think that if i more earnestly tried to become good at other things i would probably be smart enough to make it work

[idle steppe]

Is that different to medical physics?

[true zinc]

Ryan when she feel she has to be better than everyone at everything they do so she tries to do 400000000000 things at once

Including vs headmates so here she is trying to learn more about automata theory (currently LBA and Turing Machines) just so she can know more than I do about it

[heavy pagoda]

i genuinely hated applied math cause its was just nonstop algebra slop

[true zinc]

I'm shocked she hasn't tried to do any linguistics yet

[idle steppe]

Im thinking of going into medical physics as my career, seems like the only thing i'd like that is physics-adjacent

[heavy pagoda]

but like i think if i could shut off the part of my brain that was repulsed by that i could probably deal with it

[weak shadow]

yes, medical physics diagnose people with machines, I study how people die from radiation

[thick ocean]

isn't it basically:

• automata are a set of functions
• with sometimes undefined composition
• make undefined a zero element
• get a semigroup
• vice versa
  ?

[true zinc]

basically yes

I just don't get group theory too well lol

Also...cont. stochastic processes (okay they're not that bad)

[weak shadow]

health physics is the practice of protecting people from ionizing radiation or the environment, health physics medical concentration is the study of how people die from it

[thick ocean]

and then syntactic monoids weird green's relations haha schutzenberger etc.

[true zinc]

YEP YEP YEP OH GODS

[idle steppe]

Do you also have to take medicine courses?

[true zinc]

She's been reading a paper on green's relations recently (and then punched a brick wall when she didn't get it first read)

[weak shadow]

yh, I also have the option to go to medical school but dk if I will

[thick ocean]

computational slop woooooo i love vector calc until my brain starts bleeding ink

[thick ocean]

give

[idle steppe]

I'd do medicine if i thought i was cut out for it. I do feel like im cut out for physics and medical physics tho

[weak shadow]

I have to take chem up to chem 2 and experimental chem, I have to take 2 levels of bio, 3 levels of anatomy and phys, calc 3, phys 3, and the hyperspecific nuclear courses about how a reactor runs, etc etc

[true zinc]

Ah yes T^i,j_i,j or whatever the hell

She was trying to do a friend's GR homework the other day

[idle steppe]

Damn

Thats so much

[thick ocean]

i wish you luck with being a multidisciplinary academic

[true zinc]

nuclear theory is SO MUCHFUN

[weak shadow]

I have a 30 score on aleks

I need to get to 60 by august or its ANOTHER year in comm college for me

but its free,,,

but I have to transition,, sooooooo its a balance

[true zinc]

I need to write a study guide for everyone in data structures now because they're all floundering half to death because of the changed course structure from last sem -Ryan

[weak shadow]

the mit courses are so fun but I talked to the nuke director at MIT and he said my program doesnt exist there qmq

[true zinc]

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

[weak shadow]

yea not even MIT has it

the weird thing is a bunch of rando ass state universities do

and lowell which is the one I want to go to and was personally recommended to me

[flat harbor]

im not sure how many nuclear theory phd positions are left

if not for quantum computing things

[weak shadow]

I mean you can always go to france

or,, sumnt

[flat harbor]

id consider if they wouldn stone me for speaking french with an englishmans accent

[weak shadow]

truth nuke, u also could go to the US, there are a servere lack of nuke phd students

buuttt its the us

or a diff school

[true zinc]

the US fucking sucks let me OUT OF HERE

[flat harbor]

im doing another type of theory in the states rn

and idt nuclear theory is the meta

[dreamy crag]

i might go to australia tbh

[weak shadow]

for the us, nuclear is actually a highly saught after thing for colleges, so its so easy as a nuke student

[dreamy crag]

but yeah, anywhere but here

[flat harbor]

but that shuldnt stop someone iguess

[weak shadow]

like last year at the school Im going to they had 5 students 5 new students into my major

[flat harbor]

theres a big nuclear engy dept here

[true zinc]

same I might do that, or EU somewhere

[weak shadow]

and its a tier one research uni thats actually very big

[flat harbor]

but thats quite diff to theory

[dreamy crag]

the main thing is that i have more friends in australia and (from my reaserch) seems like there are better opertunities for game theorists there

[weak shadow]

yea nuke energy slots are usually fit to the demand and not restricted at all, or at least from what I've seen

[flat harbor]

ru a phys person

[weak shadow]

HP

[true zinc]

I have a good amount of AU friends too

[weak shadow]

health phys

[flat harbor]

whats hp

oh dam

10 sec slowmode rly killing me but iguess this isnt a channel for smalltalk

[weak shadow]

I have 0 competition in my major and the classes are like under 10 people in size for the upper div

because there was like 5 new freshmen that declared as health physics last year and that was a high of recent years

usually its 0 💀

and this uni has a nuclear reactor and a very good and healthy nuclear program, just noone wants to be a health physicist

prob why MIT doesnt have it as a major

[flat harbor]

are the two supposed to be realted

[weak shadow]

health physics is the study of protecting people or the environment from ionizing radiation, they are the Radiation protection officers

[flat harbor]

ah isee

[weak shadow]

and dosimetrists

specifically Im going for a medical concentration where I study how people die from acute rad syndrome

[flat harbor]

veri cool veri niche

[weak shadow]

trying to become an expert in it where you can count them on one hand xd

[flat harbor]

ull actly contribute to society thats vericool

[weak shadow]

yez, I was thinking of doing something in comparing fukashima to chernobyl for my thesis

and the development of protection and containment buildings in the east vs west

or something like that who knows

[flat harbor]

it hasnt been done already?

[weak shadow]

its for my capstone so it can be done already, not going for masters or phd

[flat harbor]

ahh isee

[weak shadow]

if I was gonna go for post grad school it'd be med school

make my own program so I can focus on the death and how to survive it

[flat harbor]

i smtimes do wonder if doing a job thats more related to human problems wuld make it easier to have it as a long term job

or if that wuld tire me out more in the long run

[weak shadow]

if its what your interested in then do it, you will always have job security in a profession you love, as you will try everything till it works

[flat harbor]

eh

i like physics but its not to die for

[weak shadow]

u also could try moving abit into application of the theory

so u have more job security in the construction of the plants

[flat harbor]

thats quite a specific subfield of physics

[weak shadow]

ya but everyone is building reactors and not like AI will take your job

as they said in the 50's, nuclear is the energy of the future, weather people like it or not

[flat harbor]

i wonder

[weak shadow]

if you really like fission there are numerous high paying fission projects in the US and around the world

you would be involved mostly in construction as a theorist, or weapons construction

as far as I'm aware, that and research

[flat harbor]

i dont doubt nuclear has job prospects

[gilded oracle]

what we talking bout

[lost spruce]

read

[flat harbor]

it just appears that its become its own major atp

[weak shadow]

ye, a lot consider it's a field now

[flat harbor]

and the phys department remains a place for the uhh . niche fields

[weak shadow]

theres just so much to it and to study with a lot of different shit

[gilded oracle]

ai is cool

[faint light]

[stark trench]

i'm pretty optimistic about nuclear energy at the moment

[flat harbor]

if fusion energy was viable i dont doubt there wuld be a plasma engineering department in a lot of places

[lost spruce]

i think they look really cool

[stark trench]

unfortunately it's exclusively because we increasingly have insanely large data centers

[lost spruce]

granted my extent of nuclear energy understanding comes from Nuke in CSGO

[stark trench]

but yeah i mean i'm happy people are coming around to nuclear energy

[weak shadow]

theres a project in massachusettes by MIT grads that is trying to make it viable with really powerful magnets, theres probably a report on it somewhere

[gilded oracle]

hey isnt neuclear energy made out of like squishing atoms together

[rapid valve]

You probably mean optimistic in the sense that it's efficient, not in the sense that governments will stop being corrupt and develop them

[gilded oracle]

[weak shadow]

but personally I think its gonna be less powerful than fission, and certainly less applicable for at least the next two ish decades

[lost spruce]

they should give me nuclear material

[flat harbor]

i mean its a project worldwide lol

[stark trench]

it's nice there are projects for graduate students at mit on super far-out projects

[flat harbor]

i think fairly recently ppl managed to break even with fusion for the first time using lasers

[weak shadow]

its a seperate company so ppl can go work on it ig

[flat harbor]

was that arizona dont quote me for this

[weak shadow]

idk I'm not into fusion

[rapid valve]

Nuclear energy is cool but capitalism always ruins it, look at france, it privitized the distribution and now energy is 3 times the cost it should be😭

[stark trench]

oh. okay my guess is then it's not graduate students at all

[flat harbor]

i mean

why not have grad students working on it

[weak shadow]

I meant grads as in people who graduated like grad students who graduated

[stark trench]

yeah i mean i think that seems cool

[flat harbor]

we call that postdoc

[rapid valve]

What is so cool about fusion

[flat harbor]

the promise

[weak shadow]

the promise it shows

[flat harbor]

waste free * and cheaply sourced * fuel

[rapid valve]

I mean it promises to produce mire electricity than fission but do we really need that

Fission is already cheap

[stark trench]

okay it's my guess then that they all did their undergraduate degree at MIT

[weak shadow]

chernobyl was the nail in the coffin for fission in a lot of countries, after that regulations and costs exploded, specifically in the us to where reactors take decades and hundreds of millions to complete

[weak shadow]

ye they did

[rapid valve]

Tho ig fission causes imperialism problems urm like central african republican undergoing 10 couls in 25 years

[flat harbor]

fusion is "clean"

[weak shadow]

they both are pretty clean 💀

[flat harbor]

do u see the quotemarks

[rapid valve]

Fission is cleaner than fossil fuel tho right?

[weak shadow]

ik ik it was mostly a comment about it

whenever I hear the statement I cringe

[stark trench]

yes, pretty much by any measure of "cleanliness"

[rapid valve]

I lean i don't really see the appeal for fusion since most of the problems of fission seem to be due to bad decisions

[flat harbor]

well im saying that the whole point is that theres a lot of baggage associated with fission in the public sector

[weak shadow]

I cant help myself 🙏

[weak shadow]

all* of the problems of fission are bad decisions with the exception of like only a handfull of issues

besides like the space and cost issues

[flat harbor]

i dont have to tell u why public opinion matters in policy

[weak shadow]

either bad regulations, the lack thereof or too many

[stark trench]

why do people dislike nuclear fusion?

[flat harbor]

and building more nuclear reactors is difficult, so theres good reason for governments to look for alternatives that arent as controversial

[rapid valve]

The main issue i have with fission is neocolonialism my country exerts on african countries to get uranium, so ig fusion could be cool in that aspect

[weak shadow]

the difficulty is self imposed here in the US, they keep making regulations quicker than they can be built

[rapid valve]

The geopolitical independance

[flat harbor]

i think ppl will have different opinions abt this but i think its pretty expectable response to the disasters

[rapid valve]

Do they?

[stark trench]

nuclear fusion has similar problems with colonialism

[stark trench]

yeah, i mean the reasons to dislike fission and fusion seem about identical to me

[flat harbor]

even if we tell ppl that its safe in many cases in the 21st century, its hard to communicate that

[flat harbor]

i feel like this sort of discourse leads to nothing but "well so does coal"

[weak shadow]

chernobyl..... chernobyl and chernobyl, that and sensationalism around it and disasters related to it, an example is fukashima despite hjaving no deaths they sensationalised the fuck out of it despite it having 3 meltdowns and resulting in only an evacuation and no ACS deaths (acute rad syndrome) they still act like it killed a bajillion people

[rapid valve]

I only know about the current problems dith uranium, idk what ressources are needed fpr fusion, but if it's found everywhere, might as well cause the same problems indeed

[rapid valve]

Yeah, except fission is usable rn

[flat harbor]

its a part of the discourse but its not a reason to choose fusion over fission

[rapid valve]

Well im a bit biased because it's easiee rto criticize my own country because im more aware, turns out my country uses fission a lot

[stark trench]

so do pretty much all forms of energy, yeah, any sensible solution will not involve a serious change to how we acquire usable energy

[flat harbor]

anyways i think fusion investment is at an ok point

[rapid valve]

What is the metric

[weak shadow]

lets be fr, the soviets knew they were designing something unsafe, the RBMK was the least stable but most viable design out of 3, both of which were safer (but harder and slightly less viable) and ontop of that the company that executed was a different one than to decide the design (and they knew about the whole graphite tip issue) and that combined with regulation and pressure made it go kaboom (the short hand)

[stark trench]

one of the major downsides of coal besides the obvious carbon emissions is that it produces an immense amount of nuclear waste

[flat harbor]

well to start off ill say that its not a precise measure and we shouldnt pretend one is out there

[weak shadow]

and kills a lot of people anually

[rapid valve]

Yeah coal plants have more radioactivity than nuclear waste desposites or so i've heard

[weak shadow]

or death attributed to it

[rapid valve]

Again biased coz french so propaganda and all

[weak shadow]

well the sites are very well designed with slightly above background being detected as they are in concrete casques

that are about a meter thick

of concrete

[flat harbor]

with that in mind, i think if fusion research is at a point where its roughly in balance with other types of "innovative experiments" its ok

[rapid valve]

But again the question is why fusion if fission exists

Why even bother researching

[flat harbor]

?

[weak shadow]

its another energy that doesnt have the stigma

and has the potential to be "better"

[flat harbor]

like beyond any engineering or sociological reason to begin with

[rapid valve]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to make a mass information campaign

[flat harbor]

science for the sake of science is a thing

[idle steppe]

The only problem i can come up with is that its expensive to set up at first and takes time to pay for itself and our attention spans are too short for that

[old oak]

Empirically, spreading information is much more difficult than spreading fear and disinformation

[weak shadow]

thats gonna happen when the fossile tycoons decide to switch to nuclear because their margins are infinitely higher with it

[idle steppe]

By our i mean politicians lol

[rapid valve]

You don't invest the same amounts for the sake of it and when you have direct prospects me thinks

[flat harbor]

who says the same amount is invested

[rapid valve]

Is it more difficult than inventing fusion lol

[flat harbor]

like did u read the stuff we said above, nuclear engineering (fission) has entire departments

[old oak]

Unironically might be

[rapid valve]

Lol

[solar nebula]

i thought it was accepted that the fusion of two particles releases much more energy than their fission?

[weak shadow]

its expensive because of regulations and over regulation in many countries, resulting in retroactive regulations that get applied in the middle of construction results in reconstruction and infinitely more long and costly

[rapid valve]

Do you think politicians ar ethat smart

[flat harbor]

but regardless

[rapid valve]

Maybe they compensate by being more malicious

[weak shadow]

fusion already exists, we are on the stage of making it viable

[flat harbor]

i dont have any opinions abt large scale fusion research like STAR or ITER c

[weak shadow]

those MIT students have a tocomac already and have been doing tests

and I think it was google or BP amico that bought the rights to a fusion plant in virginia

[flat harbor]

cause what u gonna do with an uninformed opinion like that

[idle steppe]

Fusion has existed for a long time now

And we're taking a long time and still havent made it viable

[weak shadow]

ye but the site in mass is way smaller and has stronger magnets, so they are seeing more success

[flat harbor]

i think the fact that we have research going on it is really neat, and the fact that weve broken even with fusion in limited scope recently is also neat

the opinion that "but we can invest that same money into PR for fission" is quite literally putting all ur eggs in one basket

[weak shadow]

they still need to produce 20x before its viable for implementation

which is,, a while away

[flat harbor]

which is a pretty shortsighted thing to do as a government policy

[idle steppe]

But like yeah, whats wrong with just using nuclear fission?

It has so much potential if we actually used it

[flat harbor]

again like

[weak shadow]

especially in the US where we have effective reactors smaller than some buildings

its all PR

[flat harbor]

the funding thats used for maintaining and improving tech we already have

[rapid valve]

So i feel even weirder about the situation than when starting the convo but im tired so bye gn

[weak shadow]

the time PR isnt a factor the navy ran wild and developed a bunch of small and safe reactors

[flat harbor]

and the funding thats used for trying out new tech is smth u typically want split

[idle steppe]

People think another chernobyl is gonna happen if we dont shut all of them down bruh

[weak shadow]

except for when it comes to the US military

[flat harbor]

different beast innit

[weak shadow]

the us navy is probabloy the forerunner in tech for nuclear fission at this moment and time

[weak shadow]

truth nuke

[flat harbor]

crazy shit goes on with military funding

[stark trench]

I'm suspicious this is the case. I think if, say, the government of the Netherlands spent, say, 80 billion euros over the process of 5 years on a campaign to improve public perception of nuclear energy, they would be able to do so and dramatically improve the political feasibility of nuclear energy.

[weak shadow]

the us is a weapons factory that dables in politics

[idle steppe]

The usa sure does have alot of money for their military when their own citizens are dying from not being able to afford healthcare when its free in poorer countries

[weak shadow]

tbf its basically a corporate state so, ofc thats gonna happen

the defense industry literally runs the country, they make more money than private equity

[idle steppe]

The country is run by a Business man

[flat harbor]

thats why i like doing theory

[idle steppe]

Not a civil servant

[rapid valve]

I think france improved the people's opinion on nuclear just by keeping its nuclear program and letting people jsutify it or something, also electricity was way cheaper for a while so there's that

[flat harbor]

im in the same department as a lot of these guys but im just one step away

[rapid valve]

But like i really gotta go this time

[old oak]

I'm now genuinely curious at what examples we have of large-scale public information campaigns to have succeded recently.

Especially on issues as controversial (deservedly or not) as nuclear power

[flat harbor]

whenever i see these examples tho im more cautious of how ppl generalise them

[rapid valve]

Idk if hiv is co sidered a success

[idle steppe]

How trump even has above a 5% approval let alone 40% is beyond me

[rapid valve]

Democrats suck

[weak shadow]

approval polls are biased

because when was the last time you took one xd

[idle steppe]

Im not american (thank god)

[old oak]

No, I think that's a fair example, destigmatization of HIV has been a largely conscious effort by a lot of people/organization, (I'm not sure to what extent governments were involved, but still, it was an organized PR efford towards a good cause and actual information)

[idle steppe]

(im not even religious)

[flat harbor]

looking at approval polls rly is like looking at ur blood test results every week

[rapid valve]

Bye fr ill try i swear mimir yk

[old oak]

Eh, they do, and Trump is uniquely terrible, but authoritatian movements of the MAGA variety have been disappointingly successful in a lot of democracies (AfD in germany, RN in France, PiS/Konfederacja in Poland etc.); to me it's a manifestation of a larger phenomenon.

[neat lintel]

Fart

[rapid valve]

I swear i'll never sleep, so yeah the idea is that centrists suck everywhere

Imo

[idle steppe]

We arent starting wars and cutting healthcare funding for our citizens in europe tho

[old oak]

(and yes, I do see one of the underlying causes in that "centrists" will tend to ultimately side with the far right over the far left, if they have to choose)

[idle steppe]

Apart from putin

[old oak]

AfD and RN aren't yet in power in Europe, and Poland is in the fortunate position of our governments being uniformly incompetent whatever their political leanings

So they couldn't start a war even if they wanted to

[weak shadow]

we should probably stop the politics xd

[heavy pagoda]

is afd even authoritarian

[rapid valve]

Yeah centrists are ultimately more attached to liberalism than progressive ideas, so they'll end up with the far right when they need a majority because it is aligned on this point unlike the social left

[vast wraith]

[rapid valve]

At leasti thzt's my analysis

[odd narwhal]

I feel like this is skewed by a lot of self-proclaimed centrists being crypto-rightoids

[rapid valve]

That's how i make sense of centrists becoming racist here😭

[odd narwhal]

That don't want the flack

[rapid valve]

Chilling

[weak shadow]

I mean not all centrists, usually centrists in science tend to be true centrists

[old oak]

Yeah, in the 2020s that's a fair assessment, a lot of people calling themselves "centrists" are reactionaries who are uncomfortable openly identifying as such

[weak shadow]

with exceptions ofc

[heavy pagoda]

there are some ostensibly right wing people that are like lowkey crypto left wing i think

[silent junco]

idk where "most" centrists lie but i think "the answer is somewhere in the middle because nuance or something" is generally a pretty lazy way to think

[weak shadow]

the centrist type of “ i like some policies of left and right” centrist not the “ fuck everyone “ centrist

[rapid valve]

That's a minority ig, the ones in power are straight out of business schools aren't they

[odd narwhal]

It also promotes inaction and maintaining the status quo

[weak shadow]

I mean I’m a centrist because I support an equal amount of liberal and conservative policies, so a literal centrist

[rapid valve]

Ok bye fr, btw nice pfp and swords combo

[old oak]

I mean, ultimately if the leftist ideas are, even hypothetically, threatining your wealth, you're going to be vehemently against them.

[weak shadow]

thx

[silent junco]

yeah exactly. and i think thats the root of the laziness. a lot of people build their politics around the goal of just making excuses for themselves

[silent junco]

if youve thought out each of those positions critically then im not talking about you

[weak shadow]

truth nuke

[old oak]

Meanwhile if you have the wealth, you can at least hope to avoid most of the ideological persecutions by authoritatians. Notably not always, as illustrated by Caitlyn Jenner having her passport forcibly altered to say "male"

[weak shadow]

lets be fr tho, a majority of polarization nowadays is from the lack of dialouge IRL and proper conversations as well as echochambers on the internet

[old oak]

I'm always puzzled at anyone supporting the authoritarian right while not being a straight cis white male

It's almost always a question of when, not if, they will dispose of you

[heavy pagoda]

this is not very puzzling i think

like these people typically consider themselves better in some way than the other members of their group

[weak shadow]

if everyone knew about martin niemöller then the world would be better off

[old oak]

No, sure, I get that, and attaining the position of "one of the good ones" has temporary benefits, but there are so many historical examples of why that's a bad idea

[weak shadow]

and they could remember the famous words, "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. [...] Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

[heavy pagoda]

the thing with caitlyn jenner is interesting

[silent junco]

i mean i dont think its as simple as having perfect information. a lot of seemingly nonsensical behavior has to do with various flavors of cope and denial

[heavy pagoda]

in that i think there was a point in time at which trump genuinely didnt care about trans stuff and is just doing it out of political expediency

[weak shadow]

2016

[heavy pagoda]

like the day after he won the 2024 election he was posting with caitlyn jenner at his celebration dinner thing

[weak shadow]

or smth

he's a businessman, they are NEVER to be trusted, they have no morals and values

[old oak]

Trump probably genuinely doesn't care, but large swathes of the republican movement do

[vast wraith]

the norwegian labour party has been the biggest leftist party for almost as long as it’s existed, but in the past few years it has very rapidly been shifting towards the centre

[silent junco]

many such cases

[vast wraith]

guh im too sleepy to spell

[old oak]

The UK example has been appaling

[silent junco]

when i was younger i would have claimed this is inevitable

[old oak]

I mean, it sort of is, the more wealth and status you have (for example as a result of having been in power for a while), the more unsympathetic you will be to leftist ideas

[silent junco]

the argument for this goes something like "with any sort of political power either your interests change or you lose said power"

[weak shadow]

seepiness is a rapidly detteriorating illness, i pray for your rapid recovery being eepy 🙏

[vast wraith]

i have to much to do before sleep 😵‍💫

[weak shadow]

it is a danger, it claims 100% of those infected with being eepy to shleep, it has a stranglehold on the human race

[old oak]

Which I find weird inasmuch as in a free democracy you're pretty much guaranteed to lose power within two election cycles whatever you do.

[silent junco]

yeah generally this is true but i think its also too reductive of a claim to say with any kind of certainty.

[old oak]

I'd need to find the actual study, but length of incumbency is by far and away the strongest predictor of the governing party losing an election

[silent junco]

interesting

[old oak]

So you might as well do actually good stuff within those two cycles

I mean, just look at Starmer

Chasing the Reform vote so hard, and what has it benefitted him?

[silent junco]

i think this is subtly different from "governing parties tend to be ousted within x many election cycles" though. like this is basically what youd expect a priori anyway, its kinda like saying "the strongest predictor for death is your age"

[zealous garden]

We need a discussion-2 fr, serious-discussion sounds great but I need my non-slowmode auxiliary general topic discussion channel

[old oak]

Also fair, I enjoyed being silly but in a less spammy environment than #discussion. I was not put on this earth to be serious

[heavy pagoda]

isnt this gamblers fallacy

like surely the default would be it being indepdent

[old oak]

Well, political parties don't age in the usual sense.

[silent junco]

they do just by virtue of catching the blame whenever something goes wrong

[old oak]

In theory it would be plausible for a party which actually governs well to keep winning elections indefinitely, but that just doesn't happen in practice because none of them are actually governing well

[old oak]

And also sure, there are a lot of reasons for why incumbents inevitably lose popularity, but that's why my recommendations would be not to care about keeping popularity; you're going to lose it either way so just do something good while in power

Rather than triangulating to maintain the polls

Starmer is sort of unique here in that he's only been in power for one cycle, so with a modicum of charisma and competence he could hope to win another election; but well, he's Starmer

[vast wraith]

there have been a few counterexamples, for example William Lyon Mackenzie King who was elected prime minister of canada in 1935, a position in which he remained until his retirement in 1948

[old oak]

This is a childish fantasy, but I dream of a government going "we're fucked in the election anyway, let's just ram all the unpopular but actually good policies through"

Of course undermined by the prospect of then losing the election and the subsequent winners undoing all of that.

[vast wraith]

nehru was elected prime minister in india from 1947 and then repeatedly until his death in 1964, idk how democratic those elections are considered though ehehe

[old oak]

In Poland no party stayed in power for more than two cycles, and even that has only happened twice so far (2007-2015 and 2015-2023)

Well, before that one party stayed in power from 1945 to 1989 but those weren't free elections

We have less of a strong coupling between the roles of party leader and PM, so the PMs have changed more often than that

[silent junco]

i do think we're missing a huge chunk of the picture, enough to make any kind of analysis on this essentially meaningless. like we can kinda see on a surface level that politicians act to protect the interests of the rich, but thats almost the full extent of what we can say. the way in which the billionaire class and state operate, protect, and hide their collusion is evolving rapidly and under the radar of our usual sources of information. i mean look at the epstein files, for example. one of the most bizarre and stunning things is the fact that the people implicated were a perfectly representative sample of the wealthy and the powerful. we tend to think of pedophiles as statistical outliers, so surely youd expect a similar distribution when restricted to the elite! but it turns out that human trafficking is an excellent way to hold powerful people accountable to their class interests. if you want in on the network of power, the people within that network need some kind of insurance that you wont one day wield that same power against them (your idea of "doing something good during your ephemeral incumbency" falls in this category). all this to say that we know far less about what goes on behind closed doors than we think we do. maybe in the past, when information didnt disseminate so rapidly, these people could afford to stick to a stable and formulaic modus operandi. but thats become impossible today, and these people need to persistently invest a shit ton of resources into changing the rules of the game as rapidly as possible.

[old oak]

And here of course we run into the issue that it's the Capital who have the resources

It's been the issue since 1848, I believe

[silent junco]

the good (?) news is that theres no way any of this is sustainable. the desperate and scrambling nature of the above evolution is a testament to this

[fading zenith]

The server icon shouldn’t have the trans and LGBTQ flag

[teal lion]

counterexample: LDP

[silent junco]

okay. good thing nobody cares about what you think

[old oak]

Oh yeah, I do agree with that, and some kind of reckoning is coming, although I don't think we can be sure how that will look like or what the aftermath will be

[fading zenith]

It’s supposed to be a math server

[old oak]

Counterpoint: yes it should, and messages like yours are exactly why

[silent junco]

yeah thats the tricky part. i think we need to start developing the tools and network we need to deal with this immediately

[silent junco]

this isnt a debate. if you continue this line of conversation any longer, expect a mute

[fading zenith]

so now think really hard, is it that out of pocket to not want things thrown into my face. Ideology has nothing to do with math

[fading zenith]

Holy genius

[silent junco]

its not ideology.

[fading zenith]

it is

[silent junco]

cool. you were warned

[magic python]

Oh people really do get mad at random colors? That's honestly kinda pathetic.

[silent junco]

id advise not engaging with them, they're muted

[magic python]

Oop sorry

[silent junco]

nw

[delicate mulch]

ideology??? we talking zizek now?

[umbral ocean]

Hello

[slate turret]

Anti-progressivism is also ideology

[old oak]

They don't get mad at random colours, they get mad at LGBT people being visible and openly supported

[magic python]

Yeah but imagine being a hateful even colors of said minorities are something you can't stand

[old oak]

Well yeah, the colours are a proxy for the actual thing. They instinctively know that if they say "I hate gay people" they will get banned in most servers, so they hope to obfuscate this by saying "a math server shouldn't have ideology".

[magic python]

Tfw mathematicians also can be religious:

[haughty loom]

i'm trans girl B)

[old oak]

I have nothing against religion, I just don't want to have it rammed down my throat

[old oak]

Excellent!

[haughty loom]

yay

[old oak]

I've played Celeste, I've played New Vegas, and I've got several pairs of knee-high socks but I disappointingly remain cis

[magic python]

Some people even take hormones while being still cis dw

[haughty loom]

disappointingly....?

[dreamy crag]

are you a femboy? or just cool

[old oak]

I'm being facetious

[turbid ocean]

Hello serious people

I am a very serious person myself. Good to meet likewise serious fellows

[magic python]

"I don't want ideology in my math"

"Okay how do you feel about non constructive proofs"

[old oak]

I've never been fem, or cool. I have been a boy, but that was very long ago. As a genuine bit of trivia, I spent several years in a WoW guild that was overwhelmingly trans girls, and they did identify several "eggs" with startling accuracy (and they never thought I was anything but cis, so I'm probably locked in)

[weak shadow]

chat are catgirls called a meownority

[dreamy crag]

well you have knee high socks, thats pretty cool

[true zinc]

#discussion or #chill

[dreamy crag]

i respect anyone who does anything gender non conforming in any way

[haughty loom]

what tcc said
(but you're promoted)

[turbid ocean]

Are we actually being serious about serious discussion... this is so sad it's over for this server

[haughty loom]

wait i just realized serious discussion is for serious topics

[true zinc]

yes, now go

[haughty loom]

(genuinely not a joke)

[odd narwhal]

Religion doesn't have to be homophobic

[haughty loom]

i thought it was for serious + other topics, but discussion was for other topics without the serious

[old oak]

I mean, the official description says "higher quality than #discussion or #chill ", which is a stupendously low bar to clear

[turbid ocean]

anyone? Are you sure about that?

[haughty loom]

i'm dumb girl....

[dreamy crag]

yep

[old oak]

I know that, I was riffing on that hoary anti-LGBT chestnut

[magic python]

Advertising is against the rules.

[odd narwhal]

You can also discuss more light-hearted topics, it's just supposed to be a more serious space and in particular a space for discussions about serious topics

[haughty loom]

oh

[turbid ocean]

Bad take and opinion.. I wouldn't respect a murderer who does something gender non conforming

[dreamy crag]

respect can be taken away for doing bad things, but at a base level, if i have two identical people, but one is gender non conforming, im going to prefer the gender non conforming one

[dreamy crag]

very obviously a bad faith argument

[haughty loom]

wow thanks
also i realized slow mode lasts relatively long

[silent junco]

this is ambiguous as stated but i dont like where its going

[magic python]

Tfw people use everyone/anyone/never as an exaggeration:

[odd narwhal]

You can respect someone's identity and not respect them as a person

[turbid ocean]

Very obviously why I italicised anyone and asked you if you're sure about it

[old oak]

These are generally hypotheticals I don't consider very useful, because where are you going to find "two identical people but one is gender nonconforming"?

[dreamy crag]

no where, but its the best way to explain to someone who is clearly just trying to find gaps in my logic, that i prefer gender nonconforming people

[dreamy crag]

also this

[turbid ocean]

So when someone says I respect X, are they saying they respect their identity, or that they respect them as a person?

[magic python]

I'd be gender non-conforming if not for my mental disorder

[dreamy crag]

this is stupid, lets move on

[odd narwhal]

Context is a magical thing

This discussion isn't productive

[weak shadow]

except for pedos, can’t do either with them

[turbid ocean]

Pedophilia is isn't a gender identity

[weak shadow]

not even a mental illness, they are animals

[old oak]

"You can respect someone's identity" isn't the same as "you should respect everyone's identity"

[dreamy crag]

identity \ne gender identity

[old oak]

Also I'm not sure how many people identify as pedophiles

[weak shadow]

they manage

[magic python]

I love when anti-lgbt say "well this trans person did X horrible thing so I get to misgender them while not being transphobic"

Isn't it just wonderful how blind they are

[silent junco]

dont think this is a particularly helpful perspective. namely because its going to be a problem when someone close to you does something awful and you cant accept it because that person is humanized in your mind while pedophiles in the abstract are not. which leads to you making excuses and turning your back on victims.

[magic python]

The "groups" attempting to fight for pedophilia probably do.

These somehow exist.

Multiple.

[silent junco]

you see this play out a lot, and its one of the most insidious kinds of complicity

[turbid ocean]

Fight for pedophilia? I'm surprised those aren't shut down for being illegal..

[magic python]

They technically aren't committing a crime by wanting the age of consent far lowered.

Which uh sucks

[weak shadow]

I keep my standards, my uncle was outed as a pedophile and I still think he’s better off dead because of it, I keep my standard because I am a victim.

[dreamy crag]

i personaly belive that pedophila should be treated like any sort of extremely dangerous mental illness

[weak shadow]

and was arrested

[zealous garden]

Even better, it makes you blind to the warning signs because you think they're somehow not people, and clearly you are talking to a person

[dreamy crag]

you might be suprised to how many pedophiles seem like perfectly normal people (until it happnes like 50 times, then you just get cynical)

[turbid ocean]

By doing that you're saying that someone who is pedophilic has as little choice in the matter as someone with a real mental illness. One of them is a disgusting choice and another one is something life has dealt you and you have to fight through

[zealous garden]

I mean attraction isn't a choice to be fair, but acting on it certainly is

[turbid ocean]

It should be treated as a criminal offence, which it is

[undone quest]

it seems plausible to me that someone experience attraction primarily to children, which would make them a pedophile. of course for the nature of this kind of 'sexual orientation' acting upon it to any extent would be immoral, but just by being pedophilic they shouldnt be treated like criminals.

[magic python]

Pedophile, as in someone who does said action, cannot be excused in like most if not all cases, but I'd say the people who get help for the disorder aren't harming anyone per se, there are many groups who fetishize people as well that literally aren't considered disorders so nobody goes to get help for them.

[dreamy crag]

exactly

[turbid ocean]

That's what I meant, yes..

[magic python]

Like they should get help for their disorder

[turbid ocean]

Still my point stands

[silent junco]

my use of "you" wasnt about you literally, it was a generic "you". thats all ill say on the matter

[true zinc]

IMO they don't deserve the time of day, they deserve to rot, even the thought is something I'd say is bad (though I am very very well aware of how things go if thoughtcrime were a real category)

[wise jetty]

whas going on

[magic python]

Though, just like ANYONE who fetishizes groups of people, I don't think they deserve much interaction.

[weak shadow]

they not only deserve to rot they need life in prison, there should be no exception for crimes against children

[dreamy crag]

yes, the action, but if somoene is a pedophile, and hasent done anything, they should be treated as if they dont have control over it, as trying to change what someone who is attracted to is kinda not a thing

[true zinc]

Or even thoughts of them for that matter, even if "just intrusive"

[zealous garden]

Thought crime makes no sense, because I don't consent to my thoughts

[magic python]

Mecore

[neat lintel]

should probably be in an asylum to protect the public

[dreamy crag]

yeah probably

(altho i will say that a lot of mental institutions do not help, at all)

[magic python]

I shouldn't have an opinion on how that mental disorder should be handled, because well I can't form opinions myself for some reason and I can't think of a way to actually say thoughts themselves are bad without it being very controversial

[zealous garden]

Wdym, trying to is totally a thing, let me know if anyone actually succeeds though

[weak shadow]

deld core

[magic python]

Is this bad

[dreamy crag]

yes thats what i ment, you cant actualy change who someone is atracted to, and i dont think torching someone because of a mental illness is moraly the right thing to do

[magic python]

Should I force myself to have more extreme opinions

[weak shadow]

its a developmental disorder that makes it difficult to explain stuff and form complex sentences (i also have it)

[magic python]

Oh wait what does it stand for?

[dreamy crag]

sorry, should have clarified more

[weak shadow]

Developmental Expressive Language Disorder

[magic python]

Ah

[neat lintel]

what do you guys mean by they can’t control it though

[magic python]

Just like most mental disorders, it can just happen.

[dreamy crag]

like any form of atraction, the person who has the atraction cannot control it

[magic python]

But the action has no excuse

(Okay legally it does but whatever)

[weak shadow]

it should be treated like someone who has the urge to kill people, an assylum and medical intervention (if nothing is done ie no crime comitted)

[dreamy crag]

moraly it doesnt

[undone quest]

it seems kinda bad to me that now people who experience pedophilic attraction are ruthlessly ostracized for showing any signs of this condition, which might make them more extreme instead of encouraging them to seek therapy or help.

[magic python]

Well yeah, it's a want to harm people

[silent junco]

its also worth noting that many (maybe even most) people who commit these crimes arent necessarily attracted to children in the sense that you might think they are. they just see children as vulnerable enough to exploit, and its that exploitation that they seek.

[magic python]

Pedophilia directly harms the minor in ways homosexuality doesn't hurt the man like at all

[neat lintel]

well if you can’t control attraction like you say it’s good they’re ostracized we can’t just enable them

[dreamy crag]

from my experience, its a vast vast majority

[magic python]

(Well, male homosexuality)

[weak shadow]

and permanently

[magic python]

Indeed

[neat lintel]

like if someone has an insatiable urge to kill they shouldn’t be reassured and should be treated with caution and distrust

[dreamy crag]

enabling is not the same as not ostracizing

[undone quest]

yes

[dreamy crag]

you need to give them mental health treatment, not pure vitrial

if you push people to places in which they cannot get help, they will lash out and it will cause more damage

[magic python]

So glad that is a disorder I don't have (I hope... I don't know my thoughts fully)

[neat lintel]

i guess yes this does make sense for those that haven’t acted on it like you said

[dreamy crag]

giving people access to help is not just to help them, its mainly to help the children around them

[dreamy crag]

yeah, once you act on it, it should be prison for life

[magic python]

for life, legally, is too short for those people imo

[craggy flame]

what we talking about

[weak shadow]

where the justice system fails prison justice catches up

[craggy flame]

They should be locked up and experimented on

[dreamy crag]

...? i think i know what youre saying, and i personaly disagree

[weak shadow]

for those sentenced to short terms they ensure its shorter

[magic python]

Eh I'd say not really

[dreamy crag]

the solution is never torcher

[craggy flame]

if they commit the crime then yes

[magic python]

Speaking of prisoners being experimented on, didn't they do shit to trans people in prison?

[weak shadow]

just executed or life in prison, dont want the cia to have more excuses

[neat lintel]

that’s awful when did this occur

[magic python]

Life in prison is too short imo, it should be permanent.

[magic python]

I heard it in the news methinks while I looked stuff up

[weak shadow]

life in prison is good, its often full of pain and suffering if not in isolation

[craggy flame]

excuses to do what

[neat lintel]

and it should be a distinction from regular prisons it should be bottom of the barrel grade prison

[magic python]

And it ends for some.

[weak shadow]

to torture people like they did in the 80’s

[old oak]

Why do you think pain and suffering is good?

[weak shadow]

for pedophiles, it is rightfully deserved

[magic python]

"Life in prison" isn't exactly permanent.

[dreamy crag]

yeah, no mater the crime, i dont think we should intentionaly cause extra suffering

[zealous garden]

Just kill

[weak shadow]

they cause a lifetime of pain and suffering in one act

[old oak]

Why is it good to inflict pain and suffering on them?

[silent junco]

the research on this is still quite primitive but among the ways people try to make sense of this, the perspective that seems relevant here is that abusers are seeking power that they feel theyve lost for various reasons. one of these reasons is that men are still socialized to expect a certain kind of control over the women in their lives, and as they grow up and realize that those expectations are no longer realistic in todays society, they feel cheated and try to reclaim what they feel theyre entitled to. this is obviously not an exhaustive explanation but its a helpful model to keep in mind because it lets you identify warning signs and take pre emptive action.

[zealous garden]

Prison justice works. They never make it long

[magic python]

That would work

[weak shadow]

they inflict it against the most innocent

[craggy flame]

coz they r evil

[dreamy crag]

couldnt have said it better

[weak shadow]

for the worst they elongate it and make sure they dont die but suffer very painful lives, the COs also help and make sure they get access to them even in protective custody

[neat lintel]

s offenders deserve to suffer i don’t care

[dreamy crag]

i feel like there is a "fuck them, i hope they suffer" group here and a "maybe we dont torcher people" group that will never see eye to eye

[old oak]

You do seem to care, since you want them to suffer.

[magic python]

Can I be the inbetween since I can't come up with a side

[neat lintel]

it seems you failed to understand what part i said i didn’t care about

[dreamy crag]

sure

[magic python]

Yay I can be neutral on a topic

[craggy flame]

how can they hurt people in such a horrible way and not deserve to feel pain

[magic python]

You can give pain without torture...

[old oak]

Why is it important for you that they feel pain? Is it to make you feel better?

[zealous garden]

I just don't think making them suffer helps, kill them. Making them suffer makes us morally worse for doing it, wastes our money, gives them a chance to expand their influence, and gives them more life that, if you really feel that way, you should think they don't deserve.

Killing them is cheaper, quicker, cleaner, and protects us better

[dreamy crag]

because i think giving the government an excuses to torcher will always be expanded to more people

[weak shadow]

and discourages acting on their urges

[dreamy crag]

its not cheaper, objectivaly

[zealous garden]

Tfw death penalty more humane than life in prison

[weak shadow]

stoning is cheaper

[dreamy crag]

it has been proven to not

[neat lintel]

it’s not just to deliver justice to the victim, it’s to make an example out of them. if there’s no consequences to actions there’s nothing to stop people without a moral compass doing it again.

[weak shadow]

and its proven that sex offenders still have high reoffending rates

[craggy flame]

but maybe because the punishment in most countries is not severe and a lot of them dont get put away if there was more brutal punishment they wouldnt do it

[zealous garden]

If it's not cheaper it's because you made it too hard to kill people

[dreamy crag]

in places with the death penalty and no death penalty, there is no signifigant diference in amount of crime

[zealous garden]

But that's still only one point

[magic python]

That doesn't fix the issue of them not getting put away, and it doesn't really discourage the worse offenders iirc

[dreamy crag]

also the amount of falcly convicted people that will die is non 0, and its usualy more comman than you think

[old oak]

Efficacy of retributive justice is famously not very high, which has been my point

[neat lintel]

what do you think the law should do to these excuses for humans then

[dreamy crag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eirR4FHY2YY im giving you homework to watch

[old oak]

Doing unspeakable things to criminals, very publiclly, surprisingly doesn't do that much to discourage others. It is unintuitive, but it is borne out empirically

[craggy flame]

we inflict pain on innocent beings eg animals when testing cosmetic products so why cant we do it on beings that are the mot evil

[weak shadow]

death penalty is so expensive because mfs are on it for 10 years brcause they appeal so much

[dreamy crag]

all of you besides outsider

[neat lintel]

rehabilitate them in a cushy prison? for them to offend again

[zealous garden]

I mean they need their appeals

[craggy flame]

Why

[weak shadow]

agreed

[magic python]

I am not in a position to have real opinions here, but some form of permanent punishment.

[dreamy crag]

see i also think that is bad

[zealous garden]

I'm not doing homework, I'm rotting

[old oak]

There's a whole field of criminology in answering that

[weak shadow]

im supposed to be doing my math work but im cuddling stuffies in bed instead

[neat lintel]

lock in twin

[dreamy crag]

like while capital punishment seems like an obvious solution, its really not

[craggy flame]

so if i had to pick to experiment on an innocent rabbit or a pdf i wld pick the pdf

[undone quest]

supposed to be doing math, but instead speculating on treatment of pedophiles.

[old oak]

Are these the only two options you have available?

[zealous garden]

Sounds intuitive to me, for every person you discourage with the threat, there's three more who said "fuck you" under their breath and were emboldened by your offense

[dreamy crag]

false dicotimy

[craggy flame]

I mean a lot of companies still do animal testing

[dreamy crag]

not what they said

[silent junco]

yeah one of the most common types of offender is actually family of the victim, and studies have shown that victims in these cases are less likely to report abuse if they think it will get their dad/brother/whoever killed

[zealous garden]

*dichotomy

[dreamy crag]

yez eyh nuw ae ceant spail

[old oak]

I think what I mostly find disconcerting is how many people seem to have latched onto the "pedophiles give me an excuse to indulge in my most vile and violent fantasies" idea

[true zinc]

I will say, my view on swift capital punishment from things is probably an extension of my wish of hate-filled revenge for those who hurt and manipulated me rather than it being properly grounded in fact, somy views on this are probably not very good to trust

Also I've watched that jacob geller video a few months ago and also hey fellow jacob geller watcher

[zealous garden]

Who would ever guess that the little girl doesn't want her uncle to die

[craggy flame]

yea i get there are other options and a lot of companies have switched to them so that it doesnt hurt anyone but what about the stuff that requires testing on live animals

[old oak]

"And it's alright that I fantasize about inflicting horrible suffering on someone, because they "deserve" it somehow"

[zealous garden]

Like we already deal with these things not being reported because the family wants to "protect their own", let's make it worse

[dreamy crag]

yeah makes sense, also YIPPEE I LOVE JACOB GELLER!!

[neat lintel]

yeah you’re right in the sense some of these guys think they’re dexter

[dreamy crag]

what?

[neat lintel]

what was hard to understand for you

was a pretty basic sentence

[dreamy crag]

i dont know what "think theyre dexter" means

[weak shadow]

its more of revenge for being hurt by said group for most of the people in this chat, and anger at the said group for doing it

[dreamy crag]

i do not know who dexter is

[weak shadow]

u should watch dexter its a good show

[craggy flame]

dexter is from a tv show and hes like a serial killer but a chill one

[neat lintel]

thanks for stating that. he’s a fictional character who kills pdfs