serious-discussion

[shut thunder]

not really

[night wadi]

how so

[shut thunder]

neutrons

[night wadi]

this neutron idea never really got to me as well

how does it stablize the electron

[shut thunder]

proton*

[night wadi]

This proton idea also never really got to me

so, let's use a vector field

and this proton exerts a vector force

[rose ridge]

it has no charge that's why it's called neutron

[night wadi]

and so does this neutron and electron

now how does these stablize each other

what does stablizing "charge" Even mean

[shut thunder]

Quick recap on it:
The names of the three come literally from its electric charge

Electrons have negative charge
Neutrons have 0
Protons have positive charge

Electrons are """massless"""

Protons and Neutrons have about the same mass.

[night wadi]

massless that's something isn't it hmm

[night wadi]

what is charge

what phenomenon is it

[hardy scarab]

i miss her

[shut thunder]

Its just a property of the fundamental particles in essence, basically, how much they interact with the electromagnetic field.

[shut thunder]

we say that they are massless mostly cause its actual mass is incredibly tiny, so, even small amounts of kinetic energy will basically accelerate them almost up to C

[rose ridge]

you actually explained it really well

[night wadi]

now can we talk in terms of forces and particles?
this charge you talk about, it's basically about "interacting" with the em field right?
that's a complex idea to depict, but if charges go over or under, the thing that's affected is, is movement. so they're related with forces right? can you show them like inside a vector field and tell me why charges are affecting these things if something doesn't get 0 charge evenly?
and this charge, does it not defy energy conservation laws? I mean if electron's always gotta have a charge and say some atoms will always be positively/negatively charged, then they'll always be in force (Energy) no?

[night wadi]

in here I don't talk about fundamental forces but push /pull

[shut thunder]

You know the classic way to depict gravity sinks by relativity?

As like, a cloth stretching downwards

[night wadi]

well I've seen the explanation, never really made sense on how a particle bends actual empty space tho

especially 3 dimensional particle's empty space

where if it bends it, it's just seemingly a pull

[shut thunder]

Well, (ignoring this is classical physics), this is the formula for gravity force.

G is the gravitational constant (a number)

[night wadi]

yea agree on it in many cases

[night wadi]

right

[shut thunder]

Well, this is the electromagnetic force formula

[night wadi]

coulumbs copycat idea

[night wadi]

hmm

I didn't actually read about it tho

mind telling me the q1 q2

and what's k

[shut thunder]

k is the analog to G

just a number

[night wadi]

some constant that's convenient yea, alright

what about k1 k2

[shut thunder]

tbh, k is actually a variable, but we generally treat it as constant since it changes based on the medium

q1,q2 are just the values of the charges

so, the analog to mass

[night wadi]

mmmmm

[shut thunder]

like, if you want to measure whats the electromagnetic atraction between a proton and an electron, you can

just search up their q charge, and the radius of the atom you are looking at

[night wadi]

so if we take atom A, then if there are 1 proton, 1 neutron and 2 electrons, then the q1 would be +1 unit?

[shut thunder]

this atom doesnt exist in a stable state, but okay, lets assume

Its hydrogen -

[night wadi]

hydrogen +? what's a one electron atom doing something significant over here

[shut thunder]

Depends on what pair of charges you want to look at here
q1q2 could be
proton-electron
or electron-electron

[night wadi]

pair of charges? interesting

[shut thunder]

yes, coulombs law only allows for pairs of charges

[night wadi]

hey wouldn't a 1 photon 1 electron be 0 resultance aka a neutron's effect after they both are combined?

and a 1 neutron 1 electron would just be a 1 electron? I don't really get the idea of neutron here, is it 0 or is it -1 to compensate for +1 of proton

why do neutrons have to exist

[shut thunder]

Youre probably mixing the 3 "basic" particles

[night wadi]

oh not photon my bad, proton. and like if proton is +1 , electron is -1

[shut thunder]

protons and neutrons are known as nucleons, they are in the nuclei of atoms
electrons are in the cloud

anyways, thats weak nuclear force, which is far harder to understand

[night wadi]

why the neutron

[night wadi]

weak nuclear force is nucleons pulling and keeping themselves in a clump?

[shut thunder]

neutrons stabilize atoms nucleus because of Strong Nuclear Force

Weak determines how particles combine
Strong determines the forces of two particles when they are really close.

[night wadi]

hmm

[shut thunder]

which, btw, follow up

because of the nature of each, gravity is usually weak in force, but has a huge reach
electromagnetism is stronger but doesnt have noticeable effects on long distances
and strong nuclear is absurdly strong, but requires distances far smaller than the width of an atom.

[night wadi]

Mmmm

[shut thunder]

on your original request to try to look at a vector field, gimme a sec

This is totally wrong, but i think for an explanation it will serve good enough

Assume q1 are q2 of the same type of charge

If they are inside the electric field generated by another charge of the same type, they will be repeled from it

[night wadi]

Hmm

[shut thunder]

Since them both will always be inside one anothers field, they will both be repeled by the same physical force.

[night wadi]

Ic

this electron, if it always repels another electron

then why do atoms try to take in another electron so thirstily when they only lack ONE electron and almost 49% of particles (between protons and electrons) Are electrons

[shut thunder]

protons in the nuclei

and because they actually re-arrange their electron clouds for it

[night wadi]

something still doesn't fulfill this

if we were to talk in numbers, what number would electron be and what number would proton and neutron be (say +1 force, -1 force, 0 force)

[night wadi]

or say we were talking in terms of vectors

electron doesn't really affect neutron right? so we'll keep specific coloured vectors that affect specific particles

so blue vector for electron's charge and proton being the blue particle

and neutron having the gray colour vector, proton being the gray particle here

and proton, having the red colour vector and electron being the red colour particle

[agile fiber]

looking at the total force due to all of the particles, from far enough away the distances are basically the same so the force scales with the net charge of the ion. if it has a net +1 charge it will generally attract electrons

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

Electrons and Protons have (almost) the same electric charge with opposed signs
Really small numbers, but yeah

[night wadi]

I see

[night wadi]

but how's that force strong enough to pluck out an electron from another strong guy?

[shut thunder]

This is becoming a chem class, lmao

[night wadi]

And say, in the other atom, overall they're trying to lose an electron

[rose ridge]

It really is connected tho

[night wadi]

how's their overall positive force strong enough to push an electron out

like it's just a small positive margin

[agile fiber]

that's where the actual shape of the orbit clouds the electrons occupy are important. some of them put the electrons "in front of" the nucleus more so that they tend to cancel out the attractive force due to the nucleus, compared to others. this is called shielding

[shut thunder]

Resuming the idea, based on size of the atom and the amount of electrons it has in its outermost layer, some elements are better at giving out electrons and others at taking them

It can also happen they share them

[night wadi]

oh I think I get this, so say the the king and general are the neucleus, then the traitor soldiers have surrounded them, and the orders of the king don't reach the outer loyal soldiers, (picture a clump of particles that are pulling, being surrounded by a clump of particles that are pushing in all directions)

now the outer electrons, would be weaker and other atoms will pluck them out in them right?

[night wadi]

and the only other structure, is the electrons not shielding them and the nucleus force reaching strongly in many directions

and this atom pulls out an electron from another weak structure atom

something like that?

but what about a stable atom which requires no electron and which doesn't want to push out any? how do neutrons stablize the pull of protons? it's always gonna be a strong pull / if it stablizes then 0 net force and the electrons in our atom will go lose.

[shut thunder]

Theres an efect quite literally called Electron Shielding / Screening

The basic idea is that the innermost electrons push away all higher layers

Therefore, the outermost, is always the weaker

This effect is stronger for larger atoms

[night wadi]

I see

[shut thunder]

and thats why youll generally find lighter atoms taking away electrons from heavier ones

[night wadi]

I see

the outer ones just don't receive the love from the parents huh

[shut thunder]

generally
like everything in chem, theres always an exception

[night wadi]

I can imagine why there's an exception here

they put themselves in such way that they pull slantingly so the electrons actually get closer

[shut thunder]

but yeah, compared to empty space, electrons are 1. massive enough to interact with us based on their fermion quality, 2. electrically charged, so they get electrically attracted to whatever object catches it

Theres an interesting example on this
Theres a particle thats the neutral-analog of an electron

so, a particle with really low mass

which doesnt have electric charge

[night wadi]

Ok

[shut thunder]

Theres about a trillion crashing with you specifically rn

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

We call them neutrinos

[night wadi]

like trillion other particles like me hitting me?

[night wadi]

these neutrinos, they hit themselves or an electron

[shut thunder]

No, as in, trillion particles colliding with your body, passing through the roof of your house or wherever you are

If they are lucky enough, they can sometimes pass through earth and follow up elsewhere

[night wadi]

oh

so all of them hit a proton/neutron?

[shut thunder]

We predicted they existed about 30 years before we could detect them

[night wadi]

wait who do they hit then

who's the target

[shut thunder]

with "colliding" i actually mean, passing through you as if you didnt exist

they are so little and interact with almost nothing

[night wadi]

how so? I must have empty space for it no

if I'm fundamental I won't have empty space

[shut thunder]

your body is about 99.99% empty space

[night lagoon]

the chance of hitting a proton/neutron is extremely small

[night wadi]

I see

and it adds up because I have a lot of atoms

[night lagoon]

like incredibly small

[night wadi]

right

but say

what if it actually hits one

how does it pass through

[shut thunder]

it doesnt, it just bounces elsewhere

[night wadi]

I see

how have u discovered these little guys

[shut thunder]

They took specifically 26 years to detect because of that property, but it happens to be that there are so many of them to be able to fuck up with some predictions over large scales of time and space.

[night wadi]

hmm hmm

[shut thunder]

Or for really tiny experiments

[night wadi]

but like NOTHING can detect them right

[shut thunder]

yeah, you can

[night wadi]

like even if say it hits a proton

[night wadi]

how tho

like the major thing we have is photons

and that's too big wait how's a photon bigger than a neutrino

because a photon is emitted by an electron and it's like similar/lesser in size and electron is similar in size to neutrino

so u detect them with light, no?

[silver hull]

uhh, why don't you learn these through AI?

[shut thunder]

quick tutorial: dig about 2 km underground to avoid other forms of radiation
set up a huge room with a lot of charged particles that can interact with neutrinos through weak force.

detect the change of those particles you can analyze over

[silver hull]

how do you get the motivation to learn these bro?

[night wadi]

I've been doing that for past few months, but it's just a whole load of bullshit. It's even got a name, "Vibe Physics" And so often you end up thinking you've discovered something that no one did.
but over here, the humans don't praise me for every single question "you're thinking exactly like a physicist" and I actually learn the answers instead of feeling proud

[night wadi]

ah i see

it must be incredibly hard to denote the changes that shouldn't have been there by natural known laws

because they're a lot of charged particles

and like that makes them messy

and to know a change that's caused not by charged particles but this guy

[shut thunder]

yep, nowadays we have a few neutrino observatories, they have some uses

[silver hull]

discover? what is even the topic about?

[oak flame]

Is neutrino Spanish neutron

[night wadi]

any topic, legit I was thinking the other day (12 days ago) that uncertainty principle is because of light particles deflecting the electron when we measure it, because that's the only way to do so. and because we don't know where a light particle can hit, the uncertainty

but it's so wrong

[night wadi]

Hmm I see

what uses might they have

too insignificant

[shut thunder]

Neutrinos is like, the electron version of a Neutron
so, really low mass but no electric charge

[night wadi]

and too improbable

[shut thunder]

they serve as measurement of events in the cosmos

[night wadi]

I can understand why, like they're just a plain metal food particle that does nothing other than hit things.

exactly something like a mathematical ideal particle

[night wadi]

oh

measurement of events?

isn't it kinda random, how can it be denoted with time or measurement

[oak flame]

It can’t

[night wadi]

but what is measurement of events in the cosmos mean, I mean I'm not too digging in but what can they do

To be useful

[shut thunder]

nuclear reactions spew a lot of those, based on how many you detect, you know if the nuclear reactions in a star are changing

disintegration thanks to other types of radiation in our atmosphere generate them too.

[night wadi]

so are you saying that, nuclear reactions just make the particles move A LOT and quickly, so fast that they hit neutrinos quite a lot than they'd hit normally.
Like running in rain, hits u more particles (may not be true but consider the rain droplets are really tiny)

[shut thunder]

nope, nuclear reactions generate neutrinos

[night wadi]

how can they generate new mass

where does the mass come from

[shut thunder]

Again, weak nuclear forces are difficult to grasp, but they are a byproduct of nuclear reactions

Some part of the energy of a nuclear reactions is transformed into the atom youre fusing into

some other part is transformed into other things

[night wadi]

okay how about we think what a nuclear reaction is? now that I think about it, how does nuclear energy generate so much power

it seems

[shut thunder]

there are two types of nuclear energy

[night wadi]

it seems quite impossible you know

[night wadi]

hmm

[shut thunder]

fission (the one we do)
and fusion (the one the sun does)

[night wadi]

okay

[shut thunder]

fission basically breaks a heavy nucleus into two other nucleus + byproduct
fusion combines two light nucleus into a heavier one + byproduct

[night wadi]

the sun does all this in vaccum

[shut thunder]

no??

[night wadi]

but space is vaccum

[shut thunder]

yeah, but the inside of the sun isnt

[night wadi]

ah so okay but why is the outer surface of the sun hot then

ah nvm

like okay okay I get it

[night wadi]

what about this, say I give you a setting with 2 atoms

and a vaccum

and I combine them

where does the by product or the energy go

[shut thunder]

the surface is about 5000 C, the inside is about 15.000.000 C

[astral kettle]

Still not as hot as yo mo-
Excuse me

[shut thunder]

okay, the classic logic of chemistry/physics where mass is conservative doesnt apply for these

[night wadi]

I mean... chat gpt might think this puzzled scientists, but I don't think it's too much of a task to think what very energetic interactive atoms, do to other atoms around them.
like thermal energy, they obviously vibrate things and that must reach to the outer atoms as well, just lesser in the vibrations tho

so ai is trash 🚮

[night wadi]

I see, makes sense

[shut thunder]

for weak nuclear force, only energy is conservative, and if you have a difference in mass from state A to state B, then you have to have generated some other form of energy.

[night wadi]

that's interesting

[astral kettle]

Messages deleted. Terminate AI task```

[night wadi]

😭 omg

[shut thunder]

<@&268886789983436800>
holy wall of text

[night wadi]

Lmaoooooo

this is like me when I was 10 days younger

[astral kettle]

This account is not automated
It's me behind this all of this

[night wadi]

I used to think I'd do wonders with ai

[astral kettle]

I actually did

[glass peak]

Don’t post random walls of LLM generated nonsense please

[quasi jetty]

Please do not trust ChatGPT or similar AI tools for mathematical tasks, as they often generate output which "sounds correct" but has numerous factual or logical errors. Use of these AI tools to answer other people's help questions is strictly against server rules (see #rules).

[quick beacon]

You really didn't.

[night lagoon]

on viXra maybe

[astral kettle]

I think I did pretty incredible stuff with it

[quick beacon]

oh man, I didn't even think that vixra of all places would be ruined by AI

[night wadi]

right but something doesn't make sense, how can they disobey mass conservation. no matter how much energy I put to my dear electrons or quarks, they must never get destroyed

[astral kettle]

Ima head out

[quick beacon]

used to be cranks had to write their own stuff, and it was funny. Now it's just all slop. How depressing.

[shut thunder]

:clueless:
yeah, they sometimes do

[night wadi]

but how I meannnn

it's physically impossible to intuition

[glass peak]

At least they had their authenticity

[night wadi]

like say u got an empty space

[shut thunder]

High energy states usually excitate fields that they shouldnt

[glass peak]

Now what’s left

[night wadi]

and u have a truly fundamental particle that does not divide at all

if i hit it with a lot of force

[shut thunder]

Look up what an atom/particle collider does

[night wadi]

if that breaks the particle it either isn't fundamental and empty space has more chunks

[night lagoon]

the art of crankery is gone

[night wadi]

that's insane

if it's true

[quick beacon]

anyway @astral kettle you're probably wanting to learn about statistical mechanics.

Use a textbook and not deepseek.

[night wadi]

I can't get the intuition tho

[shut thunder]

They basically accelerate atoms to about 98% C and blast them into a chunk of metal

fields usually shouldnt interact with eachother

[astral kettle]

Actually-
this server is monitored, isn't it

[shut thunder]

but with enough energy, they can

[night wadi]

wait but wait

[quick beacon]

monitored? uhh, we have mods on this server, I guess?

[night wadi]

"enough energy " isn't something true is it, that means all fields interact with each other

just more seemingly at higher energy concentration

right?

[astral kettle]

No not that. The feds
Who uses Instagram here knows what I'm talking about

[shut thunder]

nope, they actually just transform kinetic energy into mass.

[astral kettle]

Or should I summarize it with one simple emoji

[night wadi]

no but this cannot be true, mathematically it's like 0.00000000000........5x when you walk, and 1x when nuclear energy blast happens

how

is this possible

[quick beacon]

cranks, I swear

[night wadi]

it seems like physics has a bias or a point of frame, if at one level something interacts with the other

seems like a game where a level unlocks u a weapon, but this shouldn't be true physically I mean...

[quick beacon]

Nothing you say on the math discord is going to be interesting enough for the feds to care unless it relates to national security. It's not like the feds care about the incorrect ideas you have about heat transfer.

but yeah, by default you should assume that any unencrypted communication is visible to the feds, specifically the NSA

[shut thunder]

okay, beyond from this image being really relevant to another topic, this is basically the idea of it
the center is the point of collition, the rays and points are the new particles created that were detected

[quick beacon]

The universe does some wacky shit when a lot of energy is crammed into a small space.

[tropic pivot]

What's the stokes theorem in your name?

[shut thunder]

Greens Theorem

"strokes" theorem is crazy work

[tropic pivot]

Stokes

[night wadi]

it does not seem intuitive at all

but u mean to say me it's true

[quick beacon]

it's absolutely true

[night wadi]

how's this possible tho

something's coming from 4th dimensional, I don't believe this is possible in 3 dimensional space

[quick beacon]

how is it possible that mass can come from energy and vice versa?

[tropic pivot]

Isn't time called 4th dimension in physics?

[quick beacon]

This has nothing to do with a 4th spatial dimension

[night wadi]

mass doesn't come from energy tho, (it does over here but the natural intuition)
and energy doesn't come from mass either, energy is just the phenomenon of the intense (not exactly really hard but like a scale) level of collision/force existing

[shut thunder]

completely off interpretation of it:
Based on E=mc^2, you can find the energy a particle has based on its mass
if you have enough kinetic energy, theres nothing stopping you from using the equation the other way around

[tropic pivot]

Same.

[shut thunder]

Again, this is absurdly oversimplified

[quick beacon]

Here's something fun, energy coming from mass is how stars work. Two protons and two neutrons weigh significantly more than a helium nucleus

[night wadi]

truly absurdly oversimplified.

[quick beacon]

The energy difference between these two states is why you're alive.

[tropic pivot]

E =mc² is complete?
I think there is another equation

[quick beacon]

E^2 = m^2 c^4 + p^2 c^2

[tropic pivot]

Why photon possess energy if it's massless?

[quick beacon]

where p is momentum

[shut thunder]

just to give an example of it, recall how i explained that electrons get sent to a higher energy state under certain conditions

and when they reestabilize, they emit light
Well, thats quite literally the same idea

[quick beacon]

photons have momentum despite not having mass.

so they have energy

[night wadi]

hey I think this has a lot to do with something being massless and having energy

can we discuss about that first, to straighten up what energy is in a clear way

[tropic pivot]

Oky,
that was why that equation needed.

I'm bad student.

[tropic pivot]

It is said that object possess energy if has capacity to do work. Sorry if you did mean different.

[night wadi]

a photon, quantum physics has deemed it as a particle. but it doesn't feel like a usual particle, I only feel like you can narrow it down to a certain area in space, because of the electro magnetic ripple moving at a certain speed and not instantly.
so it actually travels, but it doesn't have mass, and it's not like a particle yet you can point down an area of space (small enough like a particle) Of the concentration of it's effect, where it's travelling

[shut thunder]

for a particle, momentum is associated to its velocity and mass
but photons are also a wave. > they use another formula

[night lagoon]

so the energy–momentum relation of the photon is E=p*c?

[tropic pivot]

Planck equation

E=hν

[quick beacon]

"What is energy?" is a surprisingly deep question. For instance, you may have heard about heisenberg's uncertainty principle, about how you can't know the momentum and position of a particle with a greater accuracy than h-bar/2 (iirc), but did you know that energy and time share a similar uncertainty property? This is because the energy of a quantum particle (aka the hamiltonian) and the time operator share a similar relationship to the momentum and position operators.

[shut thunder]

iirc there are about 4 pairs of uncertainty

[night wadi]

right I don't think photon is a particle, I believe they narrow it down to the area it's present for it to seem like a particle, and it behaves like a wave. because when u look at it, a photon and the invisible electrical fields around it are not so different, it's the same material/element. So I believe for the wave element as well, even if it's a particle and the concentration of the effect is far away from the electron, behind it is just nature like it, so it's hard to think of it this way but wave seems to be true

[shut thunder]

i cant recall precisely why they are tied to eachother, but anyways

[night wadi]

is this sort of true?

or photons are actual particles and not just narrowing of space of the effect of the change of the electron

[night wadi]

that doesn't make sense tho, that would mean I should be able to change a photon's direction

and this narrowing of space to see where the effect of the change of the electron idea seems more accurate

because u really cannot change it

literally u cannot mess with it

[tropic pivot]

Doesn't photoelectric effect confirm particle nature, for that Einstein got Nobel?

[quick beacon]

orthogonal components of angular momentum share an uncertainty principle, which was actually the first one you learn typically, though it isn't normally described this way

[night wadi]

that confirms particle NATURE not particle PHYSICAL THING

particle nature is confirmed by what I'm conversing here too

and it denies a physical THING

[quick beacon]

like, if you start QM with the Stern Gerlach experiment.

[shut thunder]

From quantum field theory, yeah, they are waves, they act like particles when you take them as being in a discrete region of space (so really concentrated vibrations)

[tropic pivot]

What is definition of physical thing?

[night wadi]

RIGHT so I'm true and they're non existent particles that are really just space's narrowing down of the effect of the change of the electron exitation

[quick beacon]

turns out that using your intuition for every day things in the realm of quantum mechanics leads you to make assumptions that are difficult to correct.

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

Like, depends on "non existent", for that case, protons, neutrons, electrons, etc... also doesnt exist.

[night wadi]

u mean to say they're actually particles and not just our narrowing it down to particle like areas in space of the effect of the change of the...

[shut thunder]

They all are part of some field.

[night wadi]

right but

[tropic pivot]

I'm dumber than you all in physics. I should not argue between you.

[night wadi]

I'm literally 14 what do u mean dumber, I'm the dumbest over here and seems like the loudest one as well, so don't think like that

[night wadi]

right let's speak in terms of all the other particles and photons separately

[shut thunder]

okay i guess

[night wadi]

WE are physical, and in a field of "abcde" interactions

[tropic pivot]

If you are 14 then definitely I'm dumb. I'm double of your age.

[night wadi]

photons, are ALSO PHYSICAL but in a field of "electro magnetic invisible to measly protons and neutrons"

[night wadi]

we can not interact with them physically by hitting them

[shut thunder]

yeah, they recide inside the electromagnetic field.

[night wadi]

but we co exist

in empty space

[shut thunder]

kinda? if they can give energy to objects, objects interact with them

like, spaceships have to consider the push the sun gives because of light for the path.

[night wadi]

that's a mental idea, not directly tho right? we sure can change electrons in ways that make them do things, but not mid air directly with the field of electro magnetism

electrons are kinda in between to our physical and the EM physical

but we cannot physically ourselves do anything in EM physics

[tropic pivot]

Have you read bose Einstein theory? Leptons, bosons and quarks? Are they really smaller than electrons?

[shut thunder]

electrons reside in their own field to be precise

[tropic pivot]

I suspect bosons wrong.

[night wadi]

maybe we don't speak about those here right now tho

[night wadi]

now think about this, for PHOTON to be considered a particle

we describe it's charesterics

but, nothing can change a photon mid air

and we can only disturb the electron to generate a different kind of photon

[night wadi]

nothing from our physical world

now, the changing of electron is a one time thing, and nothing travels instantly over here as we observe

so, can we not narrow down where the effect of the electron movement is?

yes we can! and we can point it down and calculate it

NOW WHY IS IT THE FASTEST THING?

because it's not from our physical world yet it lies in it, so it's fastest and nothing disturbs it not even particles

[night wadi]

and the only things that disturb it, are it's relatives called electrons

[shut thunder]

Youre sort of missing the fact that fields interact

Like, quick example, strong magnetic fields cause by electrical currents can change the state of a photon

[brave flare]

Note by viXra Admin: Please submit article written with AI assistance to ai.viXra.org

[night wadi]

right the higgs boson field might make this electron field interact, but think about OUR MUNDANE, plastic, particles called neutrons and protons, that don't really have fields that do things

[night wadi]

it's like thinking about melee weapons and guns, or human strongmen and beam throwing anime demons

[shut thunder]

all electrically charged particles interact with the electromagnetic field

which does include protons

[night wadi]

shit here we go again...

mmmmmmmmmmmm

[shut thunder]

Like, if you suppose it to be a little ball, no, none of them can actually interact with it as is without absorbing and reflecting it

But that isnt the case

They are waves, and they can be disturbed by effect cause by the physical medium

[night wadi]

wait hold up hold on hold on, how are u so sure mister that protons and neutrons directly interact with the em field

[shut thunder]

mostly cause the physical medium is conformed by particles that are also waves of other fields

[night wadi]

and not with electrons instead (directly )

because electrons are a gateway between our world and their superior world of fields

[shut thunder]

they are electrically charged, so they have to be interacting with the electric field

the electric field interacts with the magnetic

[night wadi]

and electrons do exist in our world so

[night wadi]

but

[shut thunder]

and the electromagnetic field is literally the combination of the two

[night wadi]

how are u so sure that the phenomenon of them balancing /unbalancing based on how many particles wins over

is not a physical phenomenon like pull of gravity / push of particles from hitting

and directly a electro magnetic field phenomenon

[shut thunder]

okay, to be more precise, it isnt that electrically charged particles interact with the electric field

[night wadi]

YES DO YOU GET IT NOW

they interact with electrons I believe

[shut thunder]

to be more precise, the electric field is the one which "gives" them their electrical character.

[night wadi]

and not with the force itself

[night wadi]

how about this idea

[shut thunder]

you mean photons?

[night wadi]

the electric field does not give anything, and our physical phenomenon makes electrons, protons and neutrons seem charged like that, based on weird forces, and because the electron moves with a physical phenomenon and it is also tied with our electro magnetic FIELD, the field gets affected indirectly

[night wadi]

no I meant to say the electric field is caused and changed by electrons

hmm

you mean to oppose this idea?

[shut thunder]

We usually explain it the "wrong" way because its easier to understand that electrons are like little balls that give energy to a field

[night wadi]

how so?

[shut thunder]

In reality electrons are just the energy in the field

But they arent the only form of excitation in the electric field

[night wadi]

visible distress

[night wadi]

I see

but

the mass tho

[shut thunder]

thats the interaction with the higgs field

which photons dont have

[night wadi]

damn

it was fooling me all along

wait hold on

[shut thunder]

to be more precise, protons arent a fundamental particle

[night wadi]

this higgs field doesn't interact with our particles like neutrons and protons right?

[shut thunder]

they are a mix of 3 bosons

[shut thunder]

it does

[night wadi]

I know quarks but even quarks have mass and

wait

[shut thunder]

the higgs field is the field that conveys the property of mass to particles

[night wadi]

quarks as well dont have mass?

everything is just energy of the higgs field?

[shut thunder]

quarks are bosons

[shut thunder]

they have

[night wadi]

let's say effect over here, effect of the higgs field

[night wadi]

hmmmm

how do they have mass

and interact with the higgs field

I know they do a weird orbiting ritual to give protons and neutrons their mass

is that called interacting with higgs field

[shut thunder]

youre going back to the "wrong" interpretation of massive particles interacting with the higgs field

while the higgs field actually is the one that gives mass

Like, the electric field gives electrical charge
Higgs gives mass
long etc for all fields.

[night wadi]

it's actually really complex to understand this idea completely even though u seem to understand each component very intuitively.

ah

[shut thunder]

for example, a proton

is two up quarks and one down quark

[night wadi]

yeah

[shut thunder]

turns out that the mass of those 3 quarks separately is greater than the mass of a proton

So there must be an exitation in some other field that compensates for that loss of mass

[night wadi]

we'll talk about how u deduced that later when they're so small and etc.. Etc..

[night wadi]

hmm yea

how did mass get reduced

it's not possible with our physical ideas

[shut thunder]

has to do with how the three quarks combine, they need a certain amount of "glue" to stick together

[quick beacon]

I'm glad that vixra cares enough to keep their crankery by real humans. It makes it so much better to hate read.

[night wadi]

hold on

are you so sure on quarks being fundamental

and not having so many more very tiny particles

that sort of diffuse and we don't see cause they're even smaller than neutrinos

and

they diffuse because of the movement/ whatever physical actual moment the quarks do to look like protons/neutrons

[shut thunder]

when doing particle collision you dont generate protons, you generate quarks that then might combine into protons through strong nuclear force

[night wadi]

wait but this idea is impossible because how would it be greater mass when you've actually measured their mass, even after being in protons and neutrons

[shut thunder]

given the idea of energy exciting fields into creating their own particles, we assume quarks to be fundamental.

[night wadi]

I see

[shut thunder]

which, yeah, btw,

[night wadi]

I see

[shut thunder]

nuclear strong force is where the mass went

[night wadi]

oh wait

this idea again, it foreshadowed me the entire time

I get it know what it truly means to know of what fundamental is

[shut thunder]

iirc, atoms also suffer from that, when mixing a lot of protons and neutrons together, you actually lose some mass (a lot less compared)

[night wadi]

fields are soo cool they're the gods we've been unaware of all this time

[night wadi]

I see

but hey

what does "mixing" mean

like is it just moving?

moving loses mass because u interact with fields?

but how's that possible when the mass of the fundamental particles remain just as high

[shut thunder]

no, puting them together into an atom nucleus.

[night wadi]

when the only thing that appears to be dim is the mass of groups

[night wadi]

but what does "putting together" actually mean

[shut thunder]

Like, protons repel when they are apart from eachother, beyond a certain point they stick (also using neutrons to help)

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

like, if you think about the EM force, atom nuclei should explode

neutrons dont have charge

and protons all share the same sign of charge

therefore, something has to be keeping them together

(strong nuclear)

thats also how you conclude that strong nuclear is really strong

[night wadi]

a 30 minute ago (in the start of the charge discussion) me would be proud to know this.
but now it feels of no importance

[night wadi]

hmm I see

these fields are really complex to think about together in an existing world

but I'm sure I get each of them

is this what quantum field theory is?

[shut thunder]

also, we havent mentioned negative energy excitations, lmao

they dont actually represent a negative ammount of energy, its just a QF concept.

[night wadi]

negative energy? and exitations is sort of like a basic, intuition-achieved thing, it's like photons (energy) Coming to electrons (energy but mass) And that makes electrons move

right?

[shut thunder]

Positrons are the "negative energy" version of an electron

[night wadi]

positions I've heard this name somewhere

in a video prolly

[night wadi]

ah wait but that's protons no?

[shut thunder]

its an electron, but with reverse spin, reverse electric charge, etc...

[night wadi]

or this positron also can interact with qm field

unlike protons

[night wadi]

wait

what is negative energy

[shut thunder]

protons interact with EM fields

again, its just a misnomer used in QF theory

If you imagine electrons to be pointing up in their own field, then positrons look the same but pointing down

[analog skiff]

Heyyy I’m new 👋

[quick beacon]

welcome!

[night wadi]

someone once told me, angular momentum is the "wrong" perception of the electron being..
so if electron just has a momenntum like where it's supposedly going towards in physical space, then what is the idea of spin being up or down?

[analog skiff]

Uhhh I wanna go to astrophysics but I’m not so good at math so I joined ☺️

[shut thunder]

protons arent fundamental, electrons are
antiprotons arent fundamental, positrons are.

[analog skiff]

I need to relearn so much to pivot bc I failed Pre Calc 😭

[shut thunder]

angular momentum is just a really stretched out idea for particle spin

[night wadi]

anti protons.. hmm

wait but let me get this straight over here

quarks interact with em field right?

[quick beacon]

Yes, quarks have charge.

[night wadi]

because they're formed when u hit them at nearly light speed aka lot of energy

[shut thunder]

quarks form protons, specifically, with a disbalance in electric charge.

[night wadi]

right but how do u know that's not a new field instead of our electro magnetic field

[quick beacon]

because they interact with electrons via this field.

they exchange photons with electrons

[night wadi]

right but even the higgs field interact with electrons to give mass

it can be that the charges idea is not of the em field

right?

[shut thunder]

we havent explained this one, lmao

[night wadi]

and of some other fields right?

[night wadi]

wait what

exchanging as in like receiving a photon to an electron?

[quick beacon]

so photons are the mechanism that the EM field uses for interaction, it's the "boson" of the field.

bosons are force carrier particles.

[night wadi]

yeah sure go ahead

[shut thunder]

quick recap: fields have "transmitter" (boson) particles that move information between particles that interact in the field.

[night wadi]

I kind of understand this now

[shut thunder]

the photon is the EM boson

[night wadi]

a 30 minute ago me wouldn't had goten this

[night wadi]

right hm

but even the

electron is an em bosom right

because it interacts with the field

[quick beacon]

Thus if a particle interacts via the EM field it uses photons to mediate this interaction

[shut thunder]

the higgs boson is the boson of the higgs field

[night wadi]

I see lol

[night wadi]

hmm okay

yea that checks out

I'd hate to see some higgs field guy interacting with em field guy tho

[shut thunder]

in this case the "photons" really arent that much like the particle version, its more a diffusive wave in the field.

[night wadi]

yea I get the idea

if u think about it in currency it's easier

like each countrie's currency

isn't usable in another

[quick beacon]

Be careful of using analogies though

[night wadi]

mmmm yea they're never perfect at this level

alright go on

explain me how protons and... (quarks really) interact with em field

[shut thunder]

going over to the _anti_particle thing, they exist for every field, but some particles are their own anti-particle, and thats why we "need" that they dont interrupt eachother (like photons)

on why we need that > particle antiparticle pairs anhilate, aka, they delete eachother and both transform into actual energy. (not the QF misnomer)

[night wadi]

what do u consider to be an anti particle? like negation of everything of it's charectarisicts? that seems really hard to point out tho

[night wadi]

again, this deleting each other part, seems really complex to point out such a particle

[shut thunder]

every characteristic of each field the particle has, its antiparticle has opposite, except higgs

thats why we dont have negative mass

[night wadi]

ohhhh that's what I was thinking

wait but if we don't have negative mass

how does it cancel out

it just really opposes it

what charestaristic do u negate

[shut thunder]

its just a thing thats out there, to be really honest, we dont really know why our universe is mostly "normal" particles.

[night wadi]

oh

ah no wonder, I forgive physicists for not getting this idea forged out. seems really complex to decide all the charestaristics of a particle

[shut thunder]

like, in an atom collider you can actually collect antiquarks, and antielectrons (positrons)

[night wadi]

wait but

[shut thunder]

and create an anti-atom

[night wadi]

how do u know that

[shut thunder]

cause we did it

[night wadi]

no no how do u know it's all "normal"

it can be that these are all anti versions of (several) other particles right

and these won

[shut thunder]

thats why i put "normal"

these are just terms invented by us

[night wadi]

no but

[unkempt moat]

applied sciences in my mathussy

[shut thunder]

there isnt nothing really that excempts us from being actually reversed from intended

maybe we are all anti-matter

but we dont know, and called the antimatter just "matter"

[night wadi]

when u say normal, u seem to collectivise the idea of why these won, I understand your concern on "why" These won over other particles, but all of these may not be connected.... in terms of winning over other anti/normal particles

[shut thunder]

when you do collisions, particle-antiparticle pairs appair quite literally in 50/50

[fresh comet]

science is great

[night wadi]

yea but it can be possible that, say protons are actually anti matter versions and neutrons are actually normal guys

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

no, those arent pairs

[unkempt moat]

Yeah but they are hard 😿

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

cause, 1, they dont anhilate

2. they are composed differently.

[unkempt moat]

they aren’t as intuitive to me as humanities and maths are

[night wadi]

hmmm

[night wadi]

do you NOT see how intuitive all this quantum mechanics is

[shut thunder]

we just know that the great majority of our universe is composed of matter™ and that antimatter™ is quite rare.

[night wadi]

like maths and humanities make the least sense in terms of what actually is the correct meaning etc.. Etc..

they all are ants going through a maze but like u understand nothing

not what the maze is out of, not where you're heading not why you're heading not what is all this bs

[shut thunder]

economics are math + humanities and goddam its hard.

[fresh comet]

nothing is intuitive to me

[unkempt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-love-hi-bye-cat-gif-13282845705582740797

Oh

😞

My nitro server boost ran out

[night wadi]

hmm yea well, might need to think about why universe turned out like this, from what position has this idea of antimatter being rare occured

[fresh comet]

[night wadi]

maybe it was vice versa

And changed

but someone called gravitational big bang theory

may deny that

[shut thunder]

do you remember when i mentioned that all fields have a non-zero potential everywhere?

well, pairs of particle-antiparticle generate everywhere at all times from straight void,

[night wadi]

non zero potential, oh yea like a photon is not the only place where force idea of the field can be

[shut thunder]

thats why black holes radiate

[night wadi]

is that why vaccum isn't truly 0 energy

oh wow

[night wadi]

I don't understand black holes honestly, how do u understand such things from so far.
you'd have to do billions of gravitational calculations (for all particles to understand this black hole) and like nothing written out in formulas plus nothing to observe

[shut thunder]

i think ive heard at some point a theory for the big bang, where it was just a extremely rare occurence of a lot of energy concentrating at a point just out of pure chance.
I have no clue how founded that idea was, so take it with a pinch of salt.

[night wadi]

nah like pure chance I love this idea but like the foundation breaks down because we believe the universe is expanding, and pure chance needs it to be infinite

that's certainly interesting

I don't believe the universe is expanding now

[shut thunder]

tbh they are a relatively easy concept in principle

mass excerts a deformation over space-time, which attracts more matter, there a few limits of mass that need to be broken for it to eventually become a black hole, but it reaches a point where the principle of exclusion isnt strong enough to keep two fermions apart from each other

fermions are particles with mass > quarks > (neutrons)

[night wadi]

u know a lot about relativity, are they saying universe is expanding because they don't know what lies of a few atoms ahead? or are they saying it because atoms are moving farther out in empty space reaching newer destinations in empty space where no atom has ever been and expanding is just a relative term to where an atom has been

[shut thunder]

if it werent, nothing would have formed from the big bang to now

[night wadi]

or literally atoms expand empty space itself

[night wadi]

oh I see

[shut thunder]

we assume that big concentrations of energy are able to expand space time somehow, thats where dark matter and dark energy come as a concept, but we know basically nothing about them

[night wadi]

principle of exclusion? as in neutrons and protons not joining in into 6 quarks?

[night wadi]

oh

[shut thunder]

actually, the quarks that compose them, but basically, two massive particles cannot occupy the same region of space

Unless you expose them to huge pressure.

[night wadi]

hmm

that's interesting

[shut thunder]

and not like, atmospheric pressure, more like gravitational pressure or really fast collisions

[night wadi]

another way of saying we know almost nothing about black holes

[shut thunder]

black holes we know a lot of tho

[night wadi]

cause u wouldn't explain it to me that like that, and instead tell me a whole bunch of ideas and principles if u knew a lot

[night wadi]

hmmmm well well

certainly a chapter of interest maybe later in my life

[shut thunder]

they are basically an infinitely concentrated form of mass inside a discrete region of space

They basically stretch space time into them

[night wadi]

right hold on over here tho, big concentration of energy.... expand space time? do u know the meaning of expanding space time? like space can just be all there, and expanding is nothing but bending is something well because it can be infinite and u can bend it a lot with a really large mass, but like expanding doesn't make sense. Why do u assume that

[shut thunder]

thats just an observation of it, like, we have a model for it that imitates correctly the universe

But it just applies as a correcting factor

Thats where the percentages of matter, darkmatter and dark energy come from

its just "something" that we know is in our universe, but dont understand

[night wadi]

wait hold on once more, this bending of space time.
something seems suspicious about fields, masses are really integrated into fields right, so maybe masses seem differently comparing to non mass areas of the fields? aka seem like bending space time?

[shut thunder]

since, for all we care, it doesnt interact with anything beyond gravity

[shut thunder]

masses are a cause of higgs

but relativity isnt integrated to QF

We know that higgs causes mass of particles

we know mass causes deformation of spacetime with enough concentration

but thats it, we cannot tie both theories together as of now

[tropic pivot]

Cool this conversation still stands! Keep it up guys.

[shut thunder]

per se
From the 4 fundamental forces, grav, EM and both nuclear

only 3 are explained by quantum mechanics

which, btw, yeah, ik quantum mechanics is based on waves, but its fundamental principle is that everything has to be able to be "quantized", or in human terms, put into units.

We cant put gravity into units, it looks like a continuoum no matter what we do

[night wadi]

right but u do not exactly know what a higgs field is tho, u just know there's a field that does it. like u don't know it's principles, fundamental qualities and etc.. and u know it interacts with other fields because of experiments.
And there's a lot more fields and even photons that tell us something, or everything that tells us something.
Its all related to fields, so mass filled areas certainly are a different factor compared to mass less areas in the fields.

I mean, like what even do you think time is? do u just assume everywhere that it's not the same and different things happen differently because of masses/speed bending time?

can it not very well be that time's just the speed of happening things and in higher energy areas it happens faster, and faster is like meaning that it happens faster than slower energy areas?

[shut thunder]

energy isnt discrete though, its effects appear as such from particles

but energy is a total quantity distributed over all fields.

and we know that electric fields dont cause gravity wells

[night wadi]

right but mundanely, we can see certain areas having more energy concentrated than certain areas

take it lightly as areas of 5m²

[shut thunder]

yeah, cause mass is a form of energy

[night wadi]

and you'd see certain areas have more

[shut thunder]

anyways, ill be leaving

got a test to do

[night wadi]

and surely like all of it balances but it doesn't really in certain..

[night wadi]

yeah all the best! sorry for disturbing you

was a wonderful experience

[night wadi]

I've been thinking about this

and seems like space being infinite makes every possibility of an observable universe be true

say over here, 10 to the power of 81 atoms are there, and there must be 10 to the power of 81 factorial universes just like ours that each have an atom speckled a bit.

and this group phenomenon, would naturally happen over VERY VERY VERY large distances between each universe, but there also must be a cluster that is VERY VERY near each and every universe and then same but except 1 or 17 universes.

like every possibility, and over every space.

infinite space and field principles might allow this

and not only just 10 to the power of 81 atoms, but like everything

ervery possibility ever

at every space possibility ever (relatively tho)

[neat lintel]

Hi, everyone, I am looking for friends here.

I am a 21 years old young man who is trying to teach himself mathematics with only the background of high school mathematics.

Before I tried to study modern mathematics, for example, abstract algebra, yet found out that my mathematical maturity was not enough to comprehend them. Recently, I switched my focus into proving some concrete elementary results by myself with guide from AI and other references so as to train my mathematical ability. I decided to study some elementary topics before moving on to modern analysis and algebra. There aren't exact books covering the elementary materials I wanted. The nearest choices are What is Mathematics by Courant and A mathematical bridge by Stephen Hewson. However, they are survey like and aren't deep enough for my need. So I decided to do the research-like learning, to prove some classical theorems by myself and understand the elementary theory in depth, and finally write a short book by myself after I have gained enough understanding.

[lofty mango]

5 min ago I was a solving a problem to verify strokes theoram and it sucks ngl so i lowkey forgive you for your username

[spice dagger]

Hey how u doing

Does anyone know why potential energy exists within shells of a nucleus like the why behind it ik its kinda physics but would appreciate

[spice dagger]

@shut thunder u seem like u know ur shit can u answer my question please

[sharp mulch]

I would recommend asking in the physics server

It is linked in #old-network

[quick summit]

where can I ask about ML

[sharp mulch]

Consider a ML server

[placid shadow]

@neat lintel do u know L from deathnote

[neat lintel]

nuh uh

[unkempt moat]

You share a name with him

[neat lintel]

not my actual name tho

just came up with it

[placid shadow]

Ah, asking because i think in the show L has a similar name

https://tenor.com/view/l-lawliet-l-death-note-l-thinking-death-note-think-anime-think-gif-18225327673471970145

this guy

[neat lintel]

fictional ahh

[placid shadow]

@neat lintel Yes, it's late in all of the US

[neat lintel]

its weird but

its morning rn in my place

the weird part is im havent sleep at all

[placid shadow]

thats not good!

[placid shadow]

Australia?

[neat lintel]

i wish

[placid shadow]

India time zone?

[neat lintel]

but ur expectation is kinda high

[placid shadow]

i'm just guessing in time zones and populations

there's a probability for everything

[neat lintel]

ay dont mention this slur around me 😭😭

[placid shadow]

xd

that makes me think pakistan or something like that

[neat lintel]

ay doesnt mean im pakistani but good humour

[placid shadow]

XD

You can divide the earth into 360 lines vertically right?

[neat lintel]

im not telling u the coordinates either🥀

[placid shadow]

the chance that someone is in one of them is given by probability

[neat lintel]

oh alr😭🥀

[placid shadow]

i think

am i right?

[neat lintel]

BB was goated

[placid shadow]

Yesss

[neat lintel]

but kinda ragebaiting at the same time

[placid shadow]

Who

Breaking bad?

[neat lintel]

taking 30mins to show a turtle walking in desert or sum

[placid shadow]

I loved that episode so much!

[unkempt moat]

What

[placid shadow]

hank had so much emotion

[neat lintel]

yea few epidoes edging my time

[placid shadow]

I think the walking dead is a better example at that

[neat lintel]

would be great if he didnt take that shi that day

[placid shadow]

in season 1 you had scenes that lasted for like 5 minutes of them doing nothing

[neat lintel]

yea they edging us

[magic python]

:3

[placid shadow]

Ohh you mean that episode, yeah if he didn't go to the bathroom he wouldn't have caught his step brother

Brother in law*

[neat lintel]

whats ur age

[unkempt moat]

Meow

[placid shadow]

im an adult

[neat lintel]

age

im definitly not a minor

[placid shadow]

Guess

[magic python]

Car :3

[neat lintel]

22?

[placid shadow]

It's 18<or equalx<or equalnatural-age

[placid shadow]

Less

[unkempt moat]

me fr

[magic python]

Can I gaslight myself to forget stuff

[unkempt moat]

To an extent

[placid shadow]

i'm old enough to know indiana jones, does that give it away? https://youtu.be/-bTpp8PQSog?si=FUG8k1gz8jJ_og0n

[unkempt moat]

Gaslighting oneself to forget you’re in pain generally seems to work

[magic python]

Oh damn that's good

[unkempt moat]

For myself and others

[placid shadow]

i played lego indiana jones

[unkempt moat]

like if you have a headache

Or the hiccups

Just like gaslight yourself into thinking you don’t

And if its not super severe then BAM it goes bye bye

[magic python]

Can I gaslight myself into thinking I'm not horrible

[neat lintel]

like 19?

[placid shadow]

i'm 18.25

[neat lintel]

oh 🥀🥀

[placid shadow]

Yea

are you 22.5?

[neat lintel]

hell no

[placid shadow]

25?

[unborn meteor]

hi

[neat lintel]

hellllnoooo

[placid shadow]

Hiii

19?

[neat lintel]

by 22 i wont be this unintellectual

[unborn meteor]

12? (to be clear this is not my age, i am 15)

[magic python]

Why does remembering stuff happen when I start feeling nice :c

[neat lintel]

12 sound about right

[placid shadow]

He said that he was definitely an adult, so by logic it must be greater than 18

[neat lintel]

sarcasm

[placid shadow]

awh

[placid shadow]

you were sarcastic or are you saying i sound sarcastic because that sentence i said did sound sarcastic now that i read it again

[unkempt moat]

There’s no need

[magic python]

Wait I was 7-12 why the fuck do I feel bad about this

[unkempt moat]

Gaslighting implies the thing you’re trying not to think is true

But you’re not horrible

[neat lintel]

i was 😭😭😭😭

[placid shadow]

You aren't, few people are

[placid shadow]

Ohh

[unkempt moat]

Hi

[unborn meteor]

it is time...

[fresh comet]

@neat lintel welcome to the mathcord

[unborn meteor]

higher did you see my latest RLE in bots?

[placid shadow]

Have you taken algebra 2? I'm in Algebra 1

[unkempt moat]

I thought you were like 19

[fresh comet]

and hello discussion 2

[neat lintel]

what u studying rn in US

[placid shadow]

algebra 1, i suppose that's like the first year of high school in the rest of the world

[magic python]

Tbh I literally ignored someone who's mother died and they trusted me so I think that's pretty horrible (but I mean I was under 12 when it happened so idk)

[unkempt moat]

Meta committee is a staff like role isn’t it

[neat lintel]

wasssupp the next field madalist here( dont know basic arithmatic)

[placid shadow]

Well you were under 12

[fresh comet]

that it is

[unkempt moat]

In my head I imagined all the staff were at least like in uni

[neat lintel]

what is algebra 1 ? like whats the level?

[unkempt moat]

am I BLIND or is it not in the roles Info channel thingy

[magic python]

I'm also pretty sure I didn't even know we were dating for like the first 4 years 😭

[placid shadow]

Quadratic equations, exponential equations, learning a bit about polynomials, etc

Does that ring a bell?

[neat lintel]

1/3 of them are

[placid shadow]

Then you weren't don't you think so? how can you be dating someone if you don't know it

[unkempt moat]

Oh hi😇

[neat lintel]

we study that during freshmen year

[magic python]

I mean I forgot or something because after covid we couldn't really talk

[placid shadow]

Yea, in the US it's Algebra 1 and then Geometry and then Algebra 2, this is how it is generally I believe in the US

[magic python]

How the hell did 7 year old me pull 🙏 I was such a weird ass kid

[placid shadow]

Thats fair :((

[unkempt moat]

Yeah

[wraith magnet]

i dont think there are or have been any pre-uni staff

[neat lintel]

dont they have like AP classes courses and stuff from the start of highschool

[unkempt moat]

Normal track is alg 1 geo alg 2 pre-calc calc

[placid shadow]

Ye

[magic python]

But like I feel really bad now after rereading her messages that I never read bc I didn't use the app often 😔

[unkempt moat]

Most schools start allowing aps in sophomore or junior year

[fresh comet]

there’s a bit of updating that needs to be done there :p

[placid shadow]

Yea, i believe that this is for good performing students i think?

[unkempt moat]

Is speedy a 15 year old uni student

[unkempt moat]

💡

[fresh comet]

https://tenor.com/view/mumei-nanashi-mumei-七詩ムメイ-ホロライブ-hololive-council-gif-18223239967143826810

[unkempt moat]

In theory, but students in my ap classes that are pretty average or even below average seem to do fine

[bronze pelican]

Higherrr

[magic python]

I'm just glad she is doing mostly alright now with a new partner

[fresh comet]

yamin

[neat lintel]

hi lexi guy

[wraith magnet]

who knows

[neat lintel]

chat guess how many hour i study everyday

[placid shadow]

IMO grade doesn't automatically equivocate to comprehension, it doesn't automatically translate

[neat lintel]

big words

[unkempt moat]

you’re right

[placid shadow]

Yayyy! imo ur very mature for saying that because others might say something bad about someone they talked to before

[unkempt moat]

grades and intellect are very different

[placid shadow]

Just because someone gets 100 in math, it doesn't necessarily mean that they understand the subject the best.

[unkempt moat]

I would say that many students in my school maintain fine grades pretty easily but most of them absolutely flounder in terms of critical or independent thinking

[placid shadow]

Like deeply

[neat lintel]

true intellectual papi 🫦

[unkempt moat]

and I would also say that things like ChatGPT are the primary cause of this

[magic python]

I mean, she is also a close family friend, and she's gone through alot, I just wish I had the courage to apologize when I saw her again

[unkempt moat]

and the very much lenient/inflated nature of the grading system

[placid shadow]

I think that's the point in algebra, or one of them. To problem solve well, with tools that have been developed for thousands of years

[neat lintel]

thats my case too

[pure hollow]

Mumei

[placid shadow]

tiktok is an agonist for the opposite of critical thinking, there's no thinking involved, for most of the content

[unkempt moat]

yeah short form doomscrolling and ai have completely cooked the general population of my class

[neat lintel]

yea i used to scroll for 6hr everyday and it made me passively dumb

[neat lintel]

why ai tho?

[placid shadow]

i used to be a victim, but i fell out of the trap and now every day feels like 48 hours instead of 1

[placid shadow]

Same

[fresh comet]

https://tenor.com/view/mumei-lantern-mumei-mumei-original-song-gif-5194944423715910995

[unkempt moat]

🙀

[pure hollow]

6 hours is a lot

[unkempt moat]

It can solve every problem for you

[pure hollow]

Nameless

[neat lintel]

and why do u think that is the problem?

[pure hollow]

"solve"

[unkempt moat]

Because it makes them completely incompetent

[placid shadow]

Learning from something that is inadequate at teaching yields stupidity.

You can use a guide to guide, whatever that guide is, but not everything is a guide

[unkempt moat]

Many of the students in my class, even my ap classes, don’t even attempt to do work; they just go straight to plugging the questions or prompt into ChatGPT and write what it says

[placid shadow]

ChatGPT is not smarter than any mathematician

it just spits out stuff, instead of thinks

[unkempt moat]

chatgpt is simply a source of knowledge

[unkempt moat]

Exactly

[neat lintel]

and what makes this worse than books?

[placid shadow]

no it's just a data base that spits out a combination of learned things

[unkempt moat]

what?

[unkempt moat]

That’s what I mean

It just knows things

[placid shadow]

books are very well developed 99% of the time, with many people making them

school text books

[unkempt moat]

I don’t quite understand what comparison is exactly being made here

[neat lintel]

then suggest me better alternative

[unkempt moat]

Thinking with your own noggin

[placid shadow]

i think (im not sure ofc) maybe what they're trying to say is that books also give you the answer

[neat lintel]

maybe in US but i learn more watching reels than our textbooks

[pure hollow]

Daily reminder to use your noggin.

[unkempt moat]

You are taught the material, afterall; you should be able to solve any problem given to you directly with the information you were given, or by thinking around with the information to create new inferences

[neat lintel]

i think therefore i exist ahhh

[placid shadow]

Some reels are pretty good, they can be informative, but at the same time there are also brain rot memes

[neat lintel]

diff situation here i mean degenerate teacher and system so yea i had to rely on ai

[unkempt moat]

I find that short form content feels very informative in the moment but if you scroll for a hour and then unexpectedly are told to recall 10 genuine videos you watched, it would be difficult

[hexed moth]

Anyone here take an exam called the regents

[placid shadow]

thats unfortunate. thankfully i'm in an online school that is self paced and i teach my own self kind of with the information that they give me

[unkempt moat]

we aren’t talking about the same thing

[neat lintel]

u dont get what im saying do u? and thats the point

[pure hollow]

Well tbf some books are badly written,but there exists many books which are great check out #book-recommendations for that and you can always use mathcord when you are stuck kek

[fresh comet]

this is a personal thing, but I just can't learn from videos

[neat lintel]

for me i quit going to school and learn from pretty good youtube mentors like prof dave and org chem tutor

[pure hollow]

Same here

[unkempt moat]

Why do you think that is

[fresh comet]

I don't know what it is, but videos simply don't teach me anything

I learn a lot better with a textbook

[neat lintel]

cuz u watch it passively

[unkempt moat]

Do you learn from lectures in which you don’t ask questions? I would imagine the two would be pretty similar

[pure hollow]

Time consuming also you learn a lot more from the exercises provided the exercises are good which can be found plenty

[fresh comet]

not quite; I can learn something from a lecture

[placid shadow]

i can only learn from videos that teach well personally. to teach well you have to know what it is to be a learner and what it means to know the subject you are teaching

[unkempt moat]

finding out what makes that distinction may help

[neat lintel]

yea true

[fresh comet]

I haven't watched a video to learn math in half a decade

[placid shadow]

These are fantastic channels, i love them

[unkempt moat]

That’s like a long time

[fresh comet]

what would it help with?

I don't learn math from videos

[neat lintel]

we have a lot in common

[placid shadow]

Yea, but i'm also subscribed to like 300 channels

[unkempt moat]

It’s always good to have another medium of learning, the animated visuals of videos can be really helpful imo

like 3b1b

[neat lintel]

@placid shadow i mean i find common the most with european and US so i isolated myself

[placid shadow]

3b1b is so good for when you already know the subject but wanna visualize it. i tried to watch his videos before knowing pre-algebra and no matter how many times i repeated the video i just couldn't make sense of it 100%

[fresh comet]

I think the visuals are supplemental honestly

for sure

they're a lot more effective when you already know the subject, but might be missing some intuition

[neat lintel]

bruv i can name pretty few 100 of em i did harvard cs50 and freecode channel coding stuff too right now

[placid shadow]

in real life?

[unkempt moat]

maybe

idk

[placid shadow]

Oo nice! i'm subscribed to the most random channels from all genres ever

[neat lintel]

yea

[placid shadow]

i love company

[fresh comet]

3B1B is very nice, but I don't learn from his videos

I do like them though

[placid shadow]

Also, manipulating with the subject and seeing different angles of it really helps, i'd bet

[neat lintel]

me too

[placid shadow]

Same same

[magic python]

Me when the margin is too small but I proved the thingamajig:

[fresh comet]

knowing something through multiple perspectives is usually a hallmark of understanding, so yes c:

[neat lintel]

do u read classical books?

[placid shadow]

We have a lot in common! but probably also a lot not in common, such as exact height, favorite foods, personalities, etc etc, because lots of people are different from each other yknow?

[placid shadow]

I've read a bit of aristotle out of curiosity

[unkempt moat]

I was able to learn quite a lot from his essence of Lin alg series, but thinking back on it you’re definitely right, the nuances aren’t explained extremely rigorously. I suppose that videos sort of rely on the viewer filling in the gaps themselves since videos are meant for a more general audience

[neat lintel]

still it doesnt change the fact that we have a lot in common

[placid shadow]

mhm

[pure hollow]

Oh btw @fresh comet my CA arc is coming to an end I feel like I haven't done much

[fresh comet]

fwiw, I think the intuition he provides in his linear algebra series is fantastic

[placid shadow]

I believe so

[unkempt moat]

Indeed!

[neat lintel]

im aware of the fact that ur white (likely) and im burmese meitei

[fresh comet]

it's just not enough to go with that alone, nor would I even call it a primary source to learn LA from

it's excellent supplemental material

but not the best primary source, if that makes sense

[unkempt moat]

yeah of course, that’s not really what it’s meant for in the first place so I think it’s ok

Its like a precursor to get the ideas planted in your brain

so they’re familiar when you actually properly learn about them

[fresh comet]

what have you learned so far?
my CA course is coming to an end soon too, we most recently covered Montel's theorem and the Riemann mapping theorem

[fresh comet]

oh then sure, I don't disagree with you here

[unkempt moat]

Riemann mention

[fresh comet]

my opinion of complex analysis is that I hate it the least out of all the analysis I've learned so far

[neat lintel]

bro dont be mad but u sound hella wannabe smart

[unkempt moat]

I noticed today in my pre calc classroom that on the back wall with posters about mathematicians made by students the one on Euclid didn’t even mention his beautiful proof of infinite primes

Which I feel is his most famous proof is it not

[unkempt moat]

Oh goodie!

[placid shadow]

i think a lot of people want to, knowledge is good!

[fresh comet]

I'm looking forwards to the smooth manifolds course next semester

I am not looking forwards to doing more analysis though

[unkempt moat]

I have no clue what a manifold is but whenever I hear it I think of the one time they mentioned the calobi yau manifold that they mentioned in young Sheldon

[neat lintel]

thats normal but doesnt mean u should be underestimating other like that she seems like a cocky narcissists

[unkempt moat]

What exactly defines a topic as being analysis

[placid shadow]

that's not very nice to use words like that :((

[fresh comet]

I know nothing about Calabi-Yau manifolds besides that they're used in theoretical physics

[neat lintel]

some truth are objective

[unkempt moat]

Yeah that’s the context it was in in the show

buzzwords atp

[fresh comet]

hmm, if I had to give an approximate general vibe to the subject, it's "calculus but rigourous"

limits, differentiation, integration, sequences, series, metrics, etc are usually hallmarks of analysis

a lot of the time you're studying stuff like continuity and convergence

[unkempt moat]

Ohh I see, I thought that was specifically real and complex analysis

is numerical analysis also considered calculus?

[fresh comet]

more broadly, you can classify it as mathematical analysis

[pure hollow]

complex field properties,limits , continuity, differentiation,cr equations, analyticity, construction of analytical functions,the cauchy integral theorems,Laurent , residue theorem,conformal mapping and mobiüs transformations so lots of elementary stuff it's been fun ig
I wish I could have done more

[fresh comet]

I'm sure there are some who'd say so and others who disagree

certain subfields of the subject definitely lie in one or the other

[fresh comet]

conformal maps

[unkempt moat]

I guess I would suppose it is but yeah it definitely doesn’t feel like traditional calculus yknow

Like kinda but not really

[fresh comet]

well... I wouldn't call a field like functional analysis "traditional calculus" either, but it's analysis nevertheless

[unkempt moat]

👁️

[pure hollow]

Numerical analysis is in essence real analysis if you consider it to finding the optimal bounds that's there in analysis

[fresh comet]

speaking of analysis, @pure hollow makes a big appearence in the subject

[unkempt moat]

Maybe the real analysis is the proofs we made along the way

[unkempt moat]

Whenever I hear convergence I think of them

[pure hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/big-if-true-gif-25109955

[unkempt moat]

In AP lit the other week our poem was titled the convergence of the Twain

And I thought of @pure hollow

[fresh comet]