serious-discussion

[tawny knoll]

Mhm

Wait wth um

99%? Itself idk

Wait lemme think

Don't ANSWER

Okay

I'm not looking

[eternal juniper]

||hmmm why is it 9 and not 9.9 or 10||

[tawny knoll]

Okay I still think it's 99 cause it came back positive, the info at the start doesn't matter at all right

Oh

[eternal juniper]

||ohhh but is it 9.99 for the second one cause i think its 10 (it doesnt matter that much)||

[tawny knoll]

Because you "are" affected i guess idk 😭, out of 1000 people, one person would test positive ideally, the test says positive is true 99% of the time so I thought it would just be 99

Am i crazy

[eternal juniper]

nah not yet

[tawny knoll]

It came out positive right

And there's a 99 percent chance

[eternal juniper]

ok but i get it now

thanks

i was close

not close enough cause i forgot smth

[brave hemlock]

I know there is bayesian formula or whatever

But you can also just draw a branching diagram

[tawny knoll]

You mean positive tests are correct classification? Where'd you get 9.99 from

Oh wait

So like

[eternal juniper]

im pretty sure its supposed to be 10

[glass peak]

You’re learning, which is all that matters

[tawny knoll]

The categorization is true 99 percent of the time

[eternal juniper]

is it supposed to be 10

[tawny knoll]

I got 10 a while back i forgot how 💀

[eternal juniper]

wait no its 9.99 im dumb

no i meant the second number you got

[tawny knoll]

Gosh okay give me like 10 let me think about it yeah

[eternal juniper]

i thought it was 10 but i forgot that first piece of info

1/1000 people have it

so you cant include those people for the false positives

you got any other fun questions

that i wont mess up this time trust

[brave hemlock]

It's actually ||9.0163934426229%||

[eternal juniper]

they go through eachother

[brave hemlock]

The answer is that they don't exist

[eternal juniper]

i mean yes

they dont exist

[brave hemlock]

Your axioms are inconsistent

So everything is both provable true and false

[eternal juniper]

oh im stupid

nothing

nothing happens

[brave hemlock]

Oh, they aren't shot at each other is the idea

[eternal juniper]

i messed up

damn

yeah

but what if they were shot at eachother

[brave hemlock]

Not philosophy weirdly enough, that's logic

[eternal juniper]

im too dumb for this

[brave hemlock]

Not how axioms work

It is how hypothesis works

[eternal juniper]

what even is an axiom :(

[brave hemlock]

But axioms are unbreakable

There is no such thing as refining it through evidence

That's a hypothesis

Also i wouldn't because that's not how reality works

axioms are just true

They can never become false

[rich solstice]

Hi . How do I start a topic ic I never started . Actually I have to cram entire maths book in a week I have 0 idea about anything course content

[brave hemlock]

You are confusing mathematics and evidence-based sciences

actually maybe i'm confusing different senses of the word

I just assumed you meant in the mathematical sense

given that we are on a maths server

also AI

not how they work in maths

[surreal bison]

sabrina is right here, even if she could've given a better explanation

[brave hemlock]

exactly

axioms are true by definition

that's what axioms are

[surreal bison]

well, they are theorems of the formal system

[brave hemlock]

they are true statements

[surreal bison]

you can have a formal system with models where the theorems of the formal system aren't actually true in all models

[brave hemlock]

eh idk about "theorems", but that's a "is a square a rectangle" kind of question, so sure, they are theorems i will go with that

[brave hemlock]

Theorems are true statements

[surreal bison]

"theorem" means "is provable in the formal language"

[surreal bison]

You don't know that!

Godel!

[brave hemlock]

nope

[eternal juniper]

😭

[brave hemlock]

by your own definition provable -> true

[surreal bison]

That is not what I said!

[brave hemlock]

provable is actually stronger than true

[surreal bison]

I said provable means the formal system spits it out

[brave hemlock]

yep

[tawny knoll]

Classic bayes theorem question, had to write it on a paper to get the right idea though

Good question

[brave hemlock]

"true" means something very specific in mathematical logic

[surreal bison]

Your formal system can additionally be sound meaning that all provable statements are true in all models

[tawny knoll]

I got 99/(99+999)

[brave hemlock]

It's just a property of a statement

[surreal bison]

but for example, Peano Arithmetic cannot prove itself sound

[tawny knoll]

When you did P(disease| positive) that was a huge clue btw

[brave hemlock]

Consistent* afaik

[surreal bison]

(though, it depends on what sorts of models you allow, though i think useally people are taking a pretty clear kind)

[surreal bison]

Sound -> Consistent.

[solar temple]

the things that maths couldnt prove and named it axioms

[surreal bison]

If PA could prove itself sound then it could prove itself consistent

[brave hemlock]

axioms are true within the formal system

as in "True"

[eternal juniper]

alr

[brave hemlock]

T

[surreal bison]

Thus being unable to prove it's consistency means it cannot prove it's soundness

No, that is "obvious"

[solar temple]

alr

[surreal bison]

as in, direct from definitions.

[eternal juniper]

[brave hemlock]

What's "sound"?

genuine question

[solar temple]

[surreal bison]

Consistent means \nexists P s.t. |- P and |- -P

[eternal juniper]

vibration

[tawny knoll]

Wth

[surreal bison]

Sound means that for all P s.t. |- P we have |= P meaning P is true in all models

[solar temple]

its a wave

[brave hemlock]

what?

[surreal bison]

oops

(not exists)

[brave hemlock]

doesn't exist?

ok

Yeah, but my point is

[surreal bison]

Example: The model existence theorem says that for any first-order theory T with a well-orderable language,
if T is syntactically consistent (what I just called "consistent") then T has a model.

[surreal bison]

I can have a formal theory that has an axiom that's not true in all models.

[brave hemlock]

axioms are true tho in the theory

they may not be true in meta-theory

[surreal bison]

"true in the theory" means what?

the meta theory can sometimes prove that a statement holds in all model or not

the theory itself doesn't "talk about models" really

(i think)

...Tux?

(it needs modus ponens as an inference rule too)

[brave hemlock]

and either could be true if you assume it as an axiom, even both could be true if you assume both as axioms. (they would also both be false, but that's a separate matter)

Yeah, but

oh yeah

They do

I agree that axioms could be false

But they always have to be true

[eternal juniper]

what

[brave hemlock]

They could either be only true, or true and false at the same time

the latter if your axiomatization happens to be inconsistent

[tawny knoll]

I'm gonna beat you up

[brave hemlock]

Both are true in the system

Logic ≠ physical world

What is a bird?

What is a penguin?

[tawny knoll]

...

[brave hemlock]

All we know is that penguins can fly, whatever "penguins" and "flying" are

[surreal bison]

look, take the 0th order theory with
|- -(-P -> Q)
|- (P -> Q) -> ( (Q->R) -> (P->R) )
(you don't have modus ponens)
I don't know if this theory is consistent. It might be! But it certainly isn't sound, as the first axiom is false in some models.

[tawny knoll]

That's the basis we define, similar to axioms? 😭

[brave hemlock]

in mathematical logic, terms don't really have meaning

they just have relationships

[surreal bison]

What I am saying is, |- -(-P -> Q) is false in the model P=False, Q=Truo

[brave hemlock]

Like in geometry "points" can "lay" on "lines"

[brave hemlock]

reading, wait

yes

[tawny knoll]

They do wdym

[surreal bison]

actually let's just take the theory I can prove is consistent,
|- -(-P -> Q)
(that's it).
This is consistent, I think, basically because you can do almost nothing

[brave hemlock]

axioms of non-euclidean geometry are also true

[surreal bison]

Yet, the single axiom is false in some models

[brave hemlock]

just in a different theory

[surreal bison]

again are we saying true in all models?

[brave hemlock]

they are called "true"

that's what they are called

[tawny knoll]

In that system

Yes

[brave hemlock]

statements could be "true" or "false"

[surreal bison]

I just don't like "true in the system"

[brave hemlock]

in classical logic

[surreal bison]

Because my understanding is that people tend to actually say "true in all models" or "true in all models of F"

[tawny knoll]

Could be true in a specific field and false outside of it

[brave hemlock]

"true" doesn't mean it's somehow right or wrong

[surreal bison]

(meaning true in all models where F's axioms are true)

[brave hemlock]

it's a technical term

Oh, but again

you are talking about examining it from the outside

@surreal bison

I'm just talking internally

[surreal bison]

When I make a claim about whether there's models that bla bla, that's outside

[brave hemlock]

yep

"models" is automatically outside

[surreal bison]

Inside, I say that the theory doesn't talk about "truth"

[brave hemlock]

Even if it's the same theory

I do tho

that's pretty standard

[surreal bison]

then it's just an aesthetic preference

[brave hemlock]

You seem to have the philosophy that there is absolute truth?

Like ik this claim is stronger

than what you openly claimed

But that's the vibe i'm getting

[surreal bison]

I do additionally think this, yes

[brave hemlock]

We are talking about different types of truth then

[surreal bison]

Well yes, that's why it's an aesthetic preference, I don't like saying that "P is true in F" when I mean |-_F P

[brave hemlock]

I'm roughly absurdist, so for me it's more like eh, idk shit

[cunning horizon]

Hello humans

[tawny knoll]

Sybau

[brave hemlock]

But i do know how a formal system works internally

[cunning horizon]

Were you once a Nhilist

[surreal bison]

oh come on, i know someone who once said he was absurdist who i am pretty sure thinks truth

[cunning horizon]

?

[brave hemlock]

Not really, no

[cunning horizon]

I'm an existentialist tbh

[surreal bison]

I want things.

[cunning horizon]

Absurd existentialist

[surreal bison]

There's plenty of stuff I want in the universe

[cunning horizon]

Damn

Hedonistic ?!

[surreal bison]

Thus I choose to live and optimize, to try to get what I want

[cunning horizon]

I align most with Buddhist philosophy

[surreal bison]

I think you could call this a form of moral nonrealism

(idk though)

[cunning horizon]

I see

[brave hemlock]

But no

[cunning horizon]

Honestly I'm a simp for Nietzsche

[tawny knoll]

What do these words even mean

I wanna chess

[surreal bison]

Many people think, for example, that god arbitrates goodness

[cunning horizon]

Hedonism is just another form of trying to "fill" And ignore one's inner abyssal mess

[cunning horizon]

Elo?

[surreal bison]

Or that, say, any agent that wants things will... want the same morality or nomething?

[cunning horizon]

Morality is not absolute

[surreal bison]

But, fundamentally, you want things, and that's a property about yourself

[tawny knoll]

1750 on chess.com but it's been a while so I play like a 1450-1550 ish

[cunning horizon]

Do we "need" Things

[cunning horizon]

Bro im 650 elo

😔🥀

[surreal bison]

imo only children (including my dad) think in terms of "wants" vs "needs" like that

they're all preferences, just of different strengths

[cunning horizon]

Want == id
Need == superego

[surreal bison]

every day, i trade off probabilistic risks of death for soda

[tawny knoll]

Well I put the last two years of hs into chess 💀

So that grind pushed me up

[surreal bison]

This is in one way a more sensible way to use those words, in another way less

[cunning horizon]

I put the last 3 months, I didn't learn chess. I just learnt by seeing the dots

[tawny knoll]

LMAOOO

[surreal bison]

My superego also wants me to drink soda, funnily enough.

[cunning horizon]

How do you know it's your superego

[tawny knoll]

I went to classes for roughly a 2-3 months when I was 6 and only got back to it at 19 ish

[surreal bison]

oh, i know

[tawny knoll]

So I knew the basic moves

[cunning horizon]

way to go for me

[tawny knoll]

Started off at 900 something

[cunning horizon]

Btw what languages do you code in

[tawny knoll]

And went up

[surreal bison]

with soda i think the cost is low enough that it's not just a willpower problem. as opposed to, say, not exercising, where it's definitely a willpower problem and jfc i should exercise

[tawny knoll]

Python and c++, rarely java

[cunning horizon]

Java?!

That's extinct

[tawny knoll]

I had that last sem so yea

[tawny knoll]

Not at all wdym 😭

[cunning horizon]

I know c++, python and assembly (yes)

[tawny knoll]

It's used for all secure bank websites and shi

[cunning horizon]

Yeah

[tawny knoll]

I know a little bit of assembly

[cunning horizon]

Mongo DB

Also

[heady nacelle]

a s s e m b l y???

[tawny knoll]

I had microprocessors last sem so yeah

[surreal bison]

anyways, even if you may not have perfect information about what you want, even if it's highly correlated with what other people want/know about what they want (so that if someone says "X is morally bad" and you might take that as evidence about what you'd prefer). And finally, it's not like you are a calculator answering "What does this calculator answer when asked '2+2=?'" (in which any answer is correct), rather you have some "inbuilt shard of a question" like "What's 2+2=?"

[cunning horizon]

Yeas

[heady nacelle]

bro can make the entire universe from scratch 😭

[tawny knoll]

Idk shit in dbms

[cunning horizon]

I had to learn that coz of my teacher

[brave hemlock]

idk if God exists.
"want" and "need" for me is super weird as well.
Practically, i "need" shelter, food, and water

[heady nacelle]

W teacher

[tawny knoll]

Uni?

[brave hemlock]

Maybe not that weird i guess

[heady nacelle]

i wish i was taught assembly 😭

[tawny knoll]

Ew hell no

[brave hemlock]

Assembly isn't that bad in x64 world

[cunning horizon]

That sounds poetic, but it smuggles in the assumption that there is a well-defined question underneath. Maybe values aren’t like math problems waiting to be solved, but more like evolving games where the rules change as you play. In that case, talking about an ‘inbuilt shard’ might just be wishful thinking dressed up as philosophy

[tawny knoll]

Also you can always learn online if you really want to

[brave hemlock]

But pages i hate

[cunning horizon]

Fr

[cunning horizon]

Nooo

[brave hemlock]

You should check out clojure

[cunning horizon]

I'm in 10th grade

[brave hemlock]

clojure is love

[heady nacelle]

NAWWWW

[cunning horizon]

Ikt

[tawny knoll]

Oh well the exact time i started grinding chess

You're young ash 😭

[cunning horizon]

Yeahh, welcome to India

[heady nacelle]

what

im indian 😭

[cunning horizon]

I'm yunc

[cunning horizon]

Bro they teach it in my school

[heady nacelle]

WHAT CURRICULUM LMAO

[brave hemlock]

I know tight
used when you want to type ikr but keep typing t instead of r because phone screens are too small```
Thanks, urban dictionary

[heady nacelle]

i have never heard of a curriculum that teaches assembly in high school 😭

[tawny knoll]

Don't doxx yourself 💀

[heady nacelle]

wish i was in ur school, i finished my high school overseas

[cunning horizon]

You saw nun

[tawny knoll]

Sure 😭

[cunning horizon]

Yeah but I learnt cpp , py js and others outside of my school

[tawny knoll]

Just be careful

That's about it

[heady nacelle]

nice

[surreal bison]

I find it highly likely that there is a compact generator of my values

[brave hemlock]

what?

[tawny knoll]

Ew js

I hate js sm 😭

[cunning horizon]

Why

[surreal bison]

they are "relatively simple"

[tawny knoll]

It's NOT intuitive at all

[surreal bison]

with relatively high agreement between people

and there's the rhythm of a coherence in the movements in belief about what i want

[brave hemlock]

js is C syntax with high level language it's alright

Not great, not terrible

[surreal bison]

if one knew how the process worked, what actually happens in a human mind when you hold fuzzy shards of desire and try to pin them down, i expect one would eventually be able to find a coherent thing being pointed to

[brave hemlock]

That's great

Are you a writer?

[tawny knoll]

Getelementbyid 😭🙏

[cunning horizon]

The problem with that analogy is that it presumes there’s a single, discoverable question we’re all secretly oriented toward, like math waiting to be solved. But values don’t behave like numbers. They’re path dependent, culturally scaffolded, and in constant negotiation with circumstance. Even within one person, what you want shifts with age, mood, and context. If "values" were truly a latent question, then reflection should converge, like calculators all giving the same ‘4’ when asked 2+2. But instead, moral reflection diverges entire civilizations end up with radically different answers. That suggests morality isn’t a hidden question at all, but a dynamic process of construction, coordination, and reinterpretation. The ‘inbuilt shard’ idea flatters us with the sense that our confusion is just about finding the right lens, when in reality the lens is part of what creates the picture

@surreal bison

[tawny knoll]

I'm done with that shit language

[brave hemlock]

The funny thing is

That's modern feature

[cunning horizon]

What projects did you make

[tawny knoll]

Oh

[brave hemlock]

where they took jQuery, and added all of it into the language

pretty much

[tawny knoll]

Useless shit like tic tac Toe and calculator in 2nd sem cause we had web dev

[brave hemlock]

That, and fetch

Actually really nice QOL

[tawny knoll]

Hmm

[cunning horizon]

We are humans
Humans are different from nature
Nature's creation contrary to itself

[brave hemlock]

Without this stuff it's somehow even more shit

[cunning horizon]

I made an app to track the menstrual cycle, predict next period, have a trusted doctors a click away an ai powered faq section, jokes, and overall health tracker

[brave hemlock]

I'm just thankful it's not a turing tarpit, but a real language

[cunning horizon]

Actually I didn't make it 4 more of my friends did

So we

[surreal bison]

nope. i definitely think the ways in which i, say, violate the VNM axioms is just heuristics built unto my brain that fail, or not being able to feel arbitrary small differences in the thing i actually care about. simply too much coherence and simplicity in wants for me to think otherwise

[brave hemlock]

I'm just saying, if you were to hire a good narrator to read your discussion, it would be fire

[tawny knoll]

Oh pretty

[brave hemlock]

Like Carl Sagan pale blue dot type of thing

[ionic moat]

Hi I tutor for free for Math on the SAT if you need help let me know

[tawny knoll]

In JavaScript?

[eternal juniper]

sure

[brave hemlock]

I'm russian, so, idk if i'm doing SAT in this life, but if i do need your help, i'll let you know

[eternal juniper]

i do the sat next year

[cunning horizon]

But notice what you’re doing: you’re treating violations of VNM axioms as ‘noise’ around some deeper, coherent utility function. That’s already a theoretical commitment, not an observation. The alternative is that those so-called violations are the structure, not jus failures of it--that human preference isn’t an approximation of a single smooth utility curve but a patchwork of context sensitive heuristics, embodied drives, and socially learned patterns. Calling them ‘failures’ only makes sense if you assume the hidden true object of care is simple and coherent. Yet what justifies that assumption? Simplicity is appealing, sure, but evolution doesn’t optimize for parsimony, it optimizes for survival. Coherence in our wants might not be evidence of a single latent utility funxtion; it could just be the local stability you get when messy parts hapen to interlock well enough to let us muddle through

[eternal juniper]

i almost aced the psat but i got 2 questions wrong

one about uhhh standard deviation because i didnt know what that was

[surreal bison]

i expect, say, a violation of transitivity to be a pretty clear failure

[eternal juniper]

and some geometry problem

[cunning horizon]

Js, Tailwind, python, mongoDB, C++

[eternal juniper]

i hate geometry

[surreal bison]

evolution does seem to have a lot of simplicity, actually

[tawny knoll]

Oh cool

[cunning horizon]

Wanna see

?

[tawny knoll]

Sure

[surreal bison]

seemingly modularity may form with changing conditions, according to some experiments on circuits? (mildly wild speculation)

[tawny knoll]

GitHub?

[brave hemlock]

Do you hate geometry, or are you ok with geometry, and are just bad at doing problems?

[cunning horizon]

I'll send you screen shots wait

[brave hemlock]

Are you blaming a knife for the murder here?

[cunning horizon]

It's not on github atp

Still in development

Geometry is so good

[brave hemlock]

Geometry is actually kinda nice, imagine you don't have to do the problems

[eternal juniper]

i dont hate geometry i lied

i just messed up
because i way overthought it and didnt see the clear answer

[tawny knoll]

Oh okay sure

I think my server dm reqs are open?

[cunning horizon]

I dmed ya

[tawny knoll]

Sure I'll take a look in a bit

[obtuse grail]

Hi

[raw narwhal]

i got access into college and i got my first car i hope someone here is proud of me

[eternal juniper]

i might be

[near mango]

Tiktok slop ab archimedian property: asking how many cats it would take to beat superman.

[brave hemlock]

There is some natural number of cats that would beat anyone

[bronze rock]

WHO PING ME

[edgy tiger]

I did

[light thorn]

How do I know I can even learn something in the first place? That I don't have some kind of learning disability that has only gone unnoticed because we can always afford tutors?
I can't absorb any of the information in lectures. I always end up learning it after the fact.

[candid compass]

Usually, that's because 1) you subconsciously don't see a need in it, so you don't learn it, 2) the teachers aren't that good, or 3) you were unable to learn something earlier, so you're unable to understand the earlier material.

If you suspect a learning disability (or something like ADHD), you can always try to get evaluated by someone so that you can get accommodations (assuming you're in college right now).

[ionic moat]

Hi I tutor for free for Math on the SAT if you need help let me know

[keen stirrup]

Khan Academy

[little panther]

somebody look at my graph please https://www.desmos.com/calculator/1s8bvx4u99

[surreal bison]

You know how to read.

You must've learnt that somehow

Likewise you probably know basic arithmetic.

[wicked path]

how bad is abstract algebra

or is it lit

[surreal bison]

abstract algebra is wonderful!

i used to be more of an analysis lover but i have come to see that algebra is where it is at

[wicked path]

mhmmm

input

output

LOL

who should i start to try hard abstract algebra

watch^

[blazing pawn]

i learned abstract algebra from jacobsons book basic algebra i

cue laugh track over the title

[tawdry stratus]

[blazing pawn]

i didnt personally use it but i think artin is great

dummit and foote is comprehensive but probably unnecessarily so

aluffi is also apparently good but ive never looked at it at all

[deep mango]

i have read a lot of artin over the last few months

its very very good

[tawdry stratus]

holy shit ive been looking for ts screenshot

[surreal bison]

i liked lang. definitely not a good idea unless you are already mathematically mature

[clever widget]

i thought lang was like a reference book

[arctic atlas]

i thought lang was english LMAO

oh man

[granite thistle]

hello

[stoic valley]

hi

[warm umbra]

Welcome to the server @cyan dagger

[stoic valley]

can i give this whole welcoming thing a whirl?

[warm umbra]

Lol anybody can.

[stoic valley]

really?!

thanks!

[warm umbra]

🫡

[stoic valley]

Welcome to the server @dire robin!

wow! what a rush!

[warm umbra]

We usually only welcome people who have recently joined or rejoined.

[cyan dagger]

hi

[warm umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/pingu-rising-from-water-hello-hi-waving-gif-5193317710960738776

[stoic valley]

oh how do i check

that was just a practice run so dont worry

[warm umbra]

Green Clover/Heart thing next to their name.

[cyan dagger]

ur pfp

caught me

ok wait dont wanna get distracted

I came here to ask for a help

#1021175428326633542 see my form about research paper

I made a research paper i need to improve it

[stoic valley]

holy shit is that rizz

[cyan dagger]

https://canary.discord.com/channels/268882317391429632/1408472128109416448

[fresh comet]

what changed your mind?

[pure hollow]

Analysis scawwy

Well math is scawwy

[empty mirage]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ytk2PxfwKvY This is very @latent edge coded

[random void]

Fun fact: My username is one of the most overused words in this server

[vivid quest]

Never seen someone use this word

Maybe it's still overused

As its usage should be 0

[pure hollow]

Sure if you consider norm then it's quite often used

[latent leaf]

Ahoy

[daring ferry]

this channel is dead

[latent leaf]

Really?

With almost 300k people, it's dead?

[daring ferry]

the server aint dead

however this channel arguably is

[old oak]

It's a peaceful retreat from the spam that is discussy

[daring ferry]

the more people that visit the peaceful retreat, the less peaceful it gets

[torpid bay]

[old oak]

The paradox of peacefulness, yes.

[vocal vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/spam-gif-10811817447080815426

[old oak]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-flying-circus-spam-gif-15349845

[mint patio]

Anyone ever heard the phrase “electricity starts downstream”?

[tropic pivot]

Nope

Where should we go to hear that?

[old oak]

I've heard it in the mathcord about half an hour ago

[latent edge]

Lmao this is amazing

[empty mirage]

I have never seen it used

or Roingus may even be more common

[latent edge]

The game's sales would've tripled because of this

[empty mirage]

Roingua W fr fr

[empty mirage]

Yes I personally also want to buy the game but have so little time and energy these days to play

[latent edge]

Roingus

[empty mirage]

q-De(formation)lteto

[latent edge]

deformation theory scary

[empty mirage]

I've been looking at deformation theoretic calculus+differential geometry/equations based deformation

I may want to study those

technically dual numbers are an h deformation ıf R

of R*

of the reals

[jaunty imp]

Dual numbers are fun.

I had to teach those last semester.

[empty mirage]

They are the h-deformation of R

That makes em fun

Or technically not

I just see them like that

In a weird twisted way

[jaunty imp]

Yeah I see it.

[heady pagoda]

[lavish swallow]

Hallo!

welcome to the chill zone

[heady pagoda]

This place is dead and encourages "intellectual" talks

[woven sail]

Now let’s talk politics

[tropic pivot]

☮️

[lavish swallow]

cooked

[restive salmon]

Ahahahaha if I talk politics I’ll burn this whole place down

[heady pagoda]

nona's controversial politics: damn guys, genocide is like so bad....

[restive salmon]

Nope it’s a moratorium topic

[gusty sinew]

I think some of the more terse beginner books like rudins PMA should be encouraged reading since they force you to think a little. Paired with a teacher who can explain when you're actually stuck, it's a brilliant way to learn

On this server however I've observed a lot that people don't encourage reading in this manner

[verbal quest]

even if everyone agreed, the problem would be the second part

[tropic pivot]

Yeah, definitely. Where I live they just make the syllabus oriented and previous year question book and ask them to use. It sucks

[gusty sinew]

You're on the internet. You have so many places to seek human help(this server, for example) or more likely, since you won't be asking a novel question, find out an answer on forums (like MSE)

[verbal quest]

ok, but is that what you said
it's not

[gusty sinew]

I said good teacher

That doesn't mean a literal physical teacher in front of you

The internet is a brilliant teacher if you know how to use it

So yes it is

It is what I said

[verbal quest]

🙄

[vivid halo]

only a first order deformation

[pure hollow]

Why

[tacit storm]

So

[hallow ruin]

@tacit storm

[tacit storm]

Yes

[hallow ruin]

so idk what to do

i have to share it to arxiv

[tacit storm]

What grade are you in ?

[hallow ruin]

or to harvard by sending sn email

[hallow ruin]

10th

[tacit storm]

oh ok so 3 years

[hallow ruin]

man our maths book in 12th grade is fucking ass simple

[tacit storm]

To get a uni

[hallow ruin]

yes

[tacit storm]

I would try to contact anyone

[hallow ruin]

we gonna go

ill talk to u in 5 mins

bye

[tacit storm]

✌🏾

[obtuse grail]

Hi

[tacit storm]

Hi

[hallow ruin]

ill talk with u tomorrow i have been using the phone for 2 hrs they want ti

[tacit storm]

They ́

?

[empty mirage]

Groupoid

[obtuse grail]

Hello

[tacit storm]

Hey

[obtuse grail]

How are you

[tacit storm]

Nice

And you

[obtuse grail]

Am fine thanks for asking

[tacit storm]

How can we help ?

[obtuse grail]

Help?

[tacit storm]

Or do you just want to discuss

[tacit storm]

People mainly do that but we are on the discussion channel so my bad 💀

Are you doing anything in particular ?

[obtuse grail]

Yeah I just joined mathcord and I don't usually use to be active

[obtuse grail]

No problem

[obtuse grail]

How

[fresh comet]

@hallow ruin @tacit storm welcome to the mathcord c:

[tacit storm]

I joined not too long ago personally

[obtuse grail]

Yeah same noticed

[tacit storm]

I quite like it

Cool server

[obtuse grail]

Yeah me too

[obtuse grail]

Yes is it

[tacit storm]

People here have so much expertise it’s crazy

[obtuse grail]

Yeah it is

But I have one problem if I say hi pple don't answer so I just leave the server

[tacit storm]

They do be rude

Sometimes

[obtuse grail]

Idk maybe

[tacit storm]

Im saying sometimes they are not that it’s okay if that makes sense

[obtuse grail]

Do you often see pple u don't know on ur app

[tacit storm]

What do you mean

[obtuse grail]

Yes I get it

[obtuse grail]

Like other people profile and chats on ur phone and u don't know them

[tacit storm]

On discord

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[tacit storm]

U see them talking to eachother ?

[obtuse grail]

Know like personally

[tacit storm]

Like they talk to u ??

Maybe people are dm ing you

[obtuse grail]

Yes and I talk to them also but I have to say hi to them first

[tacit storm]

Yea most likely people are DM ing you for some reason

[obtuse grail]

Yes and I also dm them

[tacit storm]

Well they know you from discord servers most likely

[obtuse grail]

Yeah

[obtuse grail]

Yeah they all from discord server

[tacit storm]

Are they sometimes deranged ?

I had people dming me for bad reasons

Like scams

I would be very cautious when it comes to dms

[obtuse grail]

Nope but if I chat with one today I can't chat with them the next day they will not answer

[obtuse grail]

No they are not scam

[tacit storm]

Wait do you have pictures of the dms ?

Might be bots

If that doesnt annoy you

[obtuse grail]

No it just like I am seeing their profile

[tacit storm]

Yes

[obtuse grail]

No it doesn't not even a bit

[tacit storm]

Wait i will DM and tell me if its the same

[obtuse grail]

Ok

[tacit storm]

Is it the same ?

It’s weird cuz i dont get why they will not answer on day 2

[obtuse grail]

Yeah it also surprises me

[obtuse grail]

Yes it is

[tacit storm]

Ok

[obtuse grail]

Thanks

[tacit storm]

What do they talk about usually

It seems so odd

Like they do that recurrently

[obtuse grail]

Where they are from and what they do and their hobbies

[obtuse grail]

Yes I like it

But sometimes I do chat them and there's no response the next day

[tacit storm]

They just do that randomly

[obtuse grail]

Like I am the one that dm ING them because I just see them on my phone and I usually chat them

[tacit storm]

Oh ok

[obtuse grail]

Are you upset

[tacit storm]

I thought they just did that at random🤣 🤣

[tacit storm]

why would i be

[obtuse grail]

No lol😀

[obtuse grail]

Ok if u say so

So are we friends now

[tacit storm]

Let’s know eachother better

I dont know u yet

So i cant say that

[obtuse grail]

Ok no problem

[tacit storm]

Ok

[obtuse grail]

Ok what would you like to know but u will also tell me about u

[torpid bay]

[tacit storm]

Introducing yourself maybe

[obtuse grail]

Ok

I am from Nigeria and a unique tribe called YORUBA and I love math

[tacit storm]

Whats your name

[obtuse grail]

My name is actually what u see on your screen

[tacit storm]

I am from morocco personally. I live in europe currently

[tacit storm]

Ifeany?

[hallow ruin]

yo im back they gave ti to me

[tacit storm]

Who's they

[hallow ruin]

do u want to keep going

[obtuse grail]

Oh ok

[tacit storm]

My name is youssef

[hallow ruin]

or talk abt what r u talking abt

[hallow ruin]

good name

[tacit storm]

Thx

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[tacit storm]

Nice

[obtuse grail]

Ok nice name

[tacit storm]

Thx

[obtuse grail]

Ur welcome

[tacit storm]

What is yours

[hallow ruin]

Ali

علي بالعربي

[obtuse grail]

My tribal name is Olamide

[hallow ruin]

if u understand arabic

[obtuse grail]

Nice name

[hallow ruin]

thx

[tacit storm]

Does your tribe refer to you as that ?

[obtuse grail]

Ur welcome how are you

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[hallow ruin]

im fine how r u r u new to the server like me

[obtuse grail]

Yes am fine

[hallow ruin]

it was today my first time talking in this server i want to lesrn some pdes

after finishing calc3 and vector calc

we talked abt some physics with Monestfiks

[obtuse grail]

Me I can say it is my third time been active

[hallow ruin]

ohh nicd

[obtuse grail]

Thanks

[hallow ruin]

i just yesterday joined the server

[obtuse grail]

Nice I haven't gotten to the stage of physics yet

So where are you from

[hallow ruin]

we talked aby some discoveries i made in physics

[hallow ruin]

Iraq

middle east

[obtuse grail]

Me it was 2 months

[hallow ruin]

thats a lot

[obtuse grail]

Nope because it is just my third time being on this server

[tacit storm]

So what do you guys like to do ?

[obtuse grail]

Nice middle east where

[hallow ruin]

.

[hallow ruin]

like what in maths or real life science or whst exactly

[tacit storm]

In your life

Hobbies etc

[hallow ruin]

ohh doing calisthenics close to do a one arm pull up

[obtuse grail]

I love reading and cooking

[hallow ruin]

food is the best thing

[tacit storm]

Wow

Very nice

Im not athletic

[obtuse grail]

Nice iraq

[hallow ruin]

thx

[hallow ruin]

yes iraq

[hallow ruin]

thx

[tacit storm]

Lovely things. I use to read but can’t find time

[obtuse grail]

Lol I love cooking up to the extent that any body that taste it always have a compliment

[tacit storm]

And i can’t cook

[hallow ruin]

if u r morocan u should be able to speak arabic am i right or u dont know

[obtuse grail]

Y

[obtuse grail]

Y

[obtuse grail]

It's really nice to cook

[tacit storm]

I was born but mainly raised in europe

[obtuse grail]

Here in Nigeria there are local traditional dishes

[hallow ruin]

ohh so u have maybe a broken arabic

[obtuse grail]

That are amazing to cook

[tacit storm]

I don’t speak arab .i understand some rudiments of darija which is like moroccan dialect

[hallow ruin]

moroccan arabic accent is broken even me fluent arabic cant understand

حچيهم مكسر

[tacit storm]

It’s french english and arab

All in one

[obtuse grail]

Here in Nigeria there are classes where you can learn how to speak Arabic

[obtuse grail]

Wow

[hallow ruin]

i speak arabic kurdish since i was a kid and learned English

[obtuse grail]

Nice

[hallow ruin]

yes they have a lots of muslims

[tacit storm]

A lot of people speak french in nigeria ?

[hallow ruin]

thx idk maybe id learn some russain for fun im bored

[obtuse grail]

Yes alot

[obtuse grail]

Wow that's nice

[hallow ruin]

yes cuz they were colonized by france in 20th century

[obtuse grail]

Yes I was learning

[tacit storm]

England i think idk

[obtuse grail]

Yeah that's is true

[hallow ruin]

no no

[tacit storm]

But yea pretty much all of africa was colonised

My country was too

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[hallow ruin]

they have materials

[obtuse grail]

Yes valuable ones

[tacit storm]

Mostly that it’s cheaper materials, decentralised systems and divided in tribes

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[hallow ruin]

like diamonds coal gold etc biggest diamond was mined in africa

[tacit storm]

Nigeria the main language is english right

[obtuse grail]

Yes very much mineral resources

[hallow ruin]

english and arabic

[hallow ruin]

i think

[obtuse grail]

I will say yes

[tacit storm]

Was iraq colonised?

[hallow ruin]

yes by uk

[obtuse grail]

It's quite late I will talk with you guys tomorrow

[hallow ruin]

got its independence in 1943

[obtuse grail]

It's true

[tacit storm]

Oh yeah right pretty much all of middle east

[hallow ruin]

older than isreal

[obtuse grail]

We got independence in 1960

[tacit storm]

What a joke

"Israel"1948

[hallow ruin]

btw france and uk will recognize palestine in September of this year

[tacit storm]

Yes most of africa had an independance wave

In 1960

[hallow ruin]

forced by UN

[tacit storm]

Yea usa basically

They were independantists

[hallow ruin]

this UN is made by the west to help them in domenance around the world

[tacit storm]

The veto is a joke

[hallow ruin]

like the usa the UN rules cant be applied on them but for us we r forced

[tacit storm]

No one should have the right of veto

[tacit storm]

The rich make the rules

[hallow ruin]

yes we all should have the same rules applied but fuck the west

[tacit storm]

Winners write history

[hallow ruin]

ofc they have dominance with their money they can make drama asw

[tacit storm]

Peace

[tacit storm]

Yep

It’s sad

[hallow ruin]

ik but fine

why do we be sad if we r just citizens

go to chill chat

[wicked path]

AY

who wanna join my new math server :p

i need friends

[neat lintel]

Sure!

[young stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-gif-3878284446084509708

🐈‍⬛

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12756433236776117962

[ocean harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/eevee-breakdance-breakdancing-rmk-pokemon-gif-26492203

[young stirrup]

How

[ocean harbor]

u need active role

u see i have no life

[young stirrup]

What do you call guys who like math

[ocean harbor]

i call them nerds

[young stirrup]

I call them algebluds

[ocean harbor]

fair

[young stirrup]

What’s coffee spelled backwards

[ocean harbor]

why do u ask

[gritty heath]

But but but.... i study analysis

[young stirrup]

It’s funny

[ocean harbor]

nerd

[young stirrup]

What’s coffee spelled backwards

[ocean harbor]

fair enough

[gritty heath]

[ocean harbor]

eeffoc? idk how's that funny tho

[young stirrup]

That’s funny

Because when I wake up in the morning

I don’t give Algebros about anything

And it’s funny

We all bumping Chrissy wake up in 2025

[ocean harbor]

nerd means smart so u should be proud of urself 🙂

[ocean harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-kitty-sleep-sleepy-gif-983579173572105994

literally me rn

[neat lintel]

poindexter is a dumb nerd, so I beg to differ.

[gritty heath]

Idk about the smart part

[ocean harbor]

u study analysis

[neat lintel]

A dumb person can study anything

In fact they might even be better at studying anything because they won't know they don't understand it

Most smart people can't just study anything

[ocean harbor]

well i mean fair enough tbh

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rocky shuttle]

What's epic error or recipe spelled backwards?

[burnt ledge]

Hahahahahha okay this time it was funny

[burnt ledge]

epicer ro rorre cipe

[pure hollow]

You're omitting a rather crucial information here....

[gritty heath]

Haha

[rocky shuttle]

what information

[gritty heath]

🗿

[empty mirage]

rf rf sugnior

[warm umbra]

Welcome to the server @neat lintel

[neat lintel]

h

L

[neat lintel]

sup

[old oak]

inf

[zealous garden]

Self adjoint

[old oak]

rorre cipe or epicer

I'm reminded of the Drawkscab Monks from Darkside of Xeen.

God! A red nugget! A fat egg under a dog.
Repel evil as a live leper.

[rocky shuttle]

red is tuo

[wooden falcon]

As a dumb person who’s studied stuff, I can confirm.

[radiant wyvern]

eeffoc

which is funny

because i dont give eeffoc until ive had my coffee

[latent leaf]

hello

eeffoc? the distant cousin of "enieffac"

[old oak]

"eeffoc" sounds like a Yorkshire expletive

[latent leaf]

lol yes

[obtuse grail]

Hi

[cold patrol]

Hi

[obtuse grail]

Hey

[cold patrol]

nice to you

[obtuse grail]

Thanks

How are you

[cold patrol]

something good

[cold patrol]

and u?

[obtuse grail]

Ok nice

[obtuse grail]

Am fine thanks for asking

[cold patrol]

me too

[obtuse grail]

I just joined this server three months ago

[obtuse grail]

Yeah

[cold patrol]

r u student?

so study math?

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[obtuse grail]

I love math

[obtuse grail]

The course I will do will include math

[cold patrol]

great

[obtuse grail]

Thanks

[cold patrol]

am 26

as see you, you are younger than me... right?

[obtuse grail]

Yes very young

[obtuse grail]

Am 13

[cold patrol]

lol

right?

man?

do you have any other brother in your family?

[obtuse grail]

Yes

[cold patrol]

elder?

[obtuse grail]

I am a girl

[obtuse grail]

Yes I have elder and younger I am in between

[cold patrol]

so funny

am man

[obtuse grail]

How

[obtuse grail]

Nice

So where are you from

[cold patrol]

Australia

wbu?

[obtuse grail]

Cool

[obtuse grail]

Nigeria

[cold patrol]

good

[obtuse grail]

Thanks

Are you still a student

[cold patrol]

nope

iam developer

[obtuse grail]

Ok nice

[cold patrol]

web developer

[obtuse grail]

Cool

Do you love math

[cold patrol]

of course

for developing the math is necessary

[obtuse grail]

Y didn't u go for it

[obtuse grail]

Lol Ok

[cold patrol]

what's mean?

[obtuse grail]

Math

[cold patrol]

math is what?

[obtuse grail]

I mean y didn't u study math

[cold patrol]

lol

of course i studied math

[obtuse grail]

Ok lol

I will talk to you later am kinda busy right now

[cold patrol]

that's good

see you soon

[obtuse grail]

We still have alot to talk about

[obtuse grail]

Ok

[summer oyster]

Is holiday finished please?

I want to survive

[jade owl]

hi

fiscussy

[cold patrol]

hi

hi everyone

[dry ember]

is anyone here low level knowledge in chemistry
usually in class im bored
although i think its because my method of engaging with it isnt very good
like, i saw this image thingy
for poly something

there was a carbon atom, this carbon atom had a line to another carbon atom, and two hydrogen atoms
and if i remember my highschool sophomore classes
atom outer shells want to be full and have 8 electrons
oh and also i dont remember much from chemistry bc my last class i accidentally pissed off the chemistry teacher and i have not touched chemistry in like genuine years

anyways bc carbon has like i think four outer electrons
the hydrogens give two
so now it has six

so does this carbon share two more electrons with the other carbon?

[neat lintel]

Yeah carbon has 4 valence electrons
If we're talking about a carbon mid chain (-CH2-) then yes, it gets two electrons from the hydrogens and the other two from the surrounding carbons, it does this so that its valence is now 8 electrons (4+2+2) if we go by octet rule

[dry ember]

great good i remember something

protons and neutrons are around the same weight
electrons are super light

and its the protons that determine the atom...?
so like if i have

13
6C

that would mean like
6 protons
and 7 neutrons?

[urban blade]

yes well on those diagrams if you see a line between two atoms that means they share a bond and you can count is as 2 electrons, and if they have valence electrons they will be 2 dots on the side of the atom depending on its geometry it might be north or etc.

[neat lintel]

Yeah, protons determine what element an atom is
neutrons are basically just there to hold the atom together since it stabilises the lone clumps of protons in the nucleus, the most common isotope for carbon weighs 12amu though, 6n + 6p, although carbon 13 is also observed I think

isotopes are basically the same element but masses differ

Because of variation in neutrons

[dry ember]

this reminds me of something i vaguely remember in ap physics 2
about how its actually possible to have a positively charged electron
although im not sure if im misremembering or hallucinating this information
something about balancing?

[neat lintel]

You can refresh your memory if you use the openstax textbooks for chem

[dry ember]

i forgot about that thank you

[neat lintel]

Yeah the antimatter counterpart to electrons are positrons, or "positively charged electrons"

[dry ember]

i thought it was called beta something

im probably mixing things up though

[neat lintel]

beta particles are like super fast electrons iirc

A beta particle, also called beta ray or beta radiation (symbol β), is a high-energy, high-speed electron or positron emitted by the radioactive decay of an atomic nucleus, known as beta decay.

yeh it can be both

[dry ember]

if i remember right
this can only happen in balancing
so like if the atom gains something negative
or loses something positive?
i dont remember which

[neat lintel]

Yes this is following the conservation of energy and charge

So for example, a neutron decays into a proton and an electron, and an antineutrino

(an antineutrino has no charge btw)

[obtuse grail]

Hi

[cobalt vigil]

holy shit why is there so much maths in existence

[west vigil]

Man I love chemistry

[young stirrup]

An odd times an odd is always a

Even

Is anyone here an algebro in highschool

[neat lintel]

Nope, not a one

[young stirrup]

Are u an Algebluds

I’m taking algebra 2 as a sophomore and it’s the most boring thing ever

Kids don’t even know how to solve for a variable

[neat lintel]

No alg is mid

I like topology

[young stirrup]

What math are u in rn

[neat lintel]

I’m not in school(I’m homeschooled, really just no education tho)

I just self study

[young stirrup]

How

[young stirrup]

Are u happy in canada

[neat lintel]

USA actually

I’m rather happy

Toronto problem is a reference to the unsolved problem in topology, not my living place

[young stirrup]

Oh

[west vigil]

What

Is there topology math

Ok nvm

[neat lintel]

Topology is math

[west vigil]

I only hear that term in modelling

[neat lintel]

Ah

That’s a slightly different, but tangentially related thing

[west vigil]

Ye

[neat lintel]

Sort of like how one might say “the geometry of this model” while not doing literal geometry

[young stirrup]

Do you know what 14^2 is

[torpid bay]

196

[neat lintel]

14•14

[zealous garden]

Sovl

[surreal bison]

step 1 acquire book (e.g. internet)
step 2 read book
step 3 ...
step 4 profit

[solid yarrow]

Wish it would be sometimes this easy.

[latent edge]

it is this easy

it's just that

step 3 is wild

[solid yarrow]

Yeah...

[young stirrup]

Among us

[solid yarrow]

The step no one talks about

Though for me personally just reading at will did not work so well. Maybe next time I'll create some sort of study schedule and plan a bit more.

[latent edge]

what comes to mind when you do math?

Is it more "i have to do it because im forced" or "i wanna do it because i love this"

[solid yarrow]

A mix

Often from 1. To 2. And back

Is this weird? Am I the broken one?

[latent edge]

no its normal

happens

just make sure you get a lot of the second one

the first one is a fantastic way to burn out

[solid yarrow]

This is what probably burns me out from time to timr when self study

Like some stuff looks appealing

Others... not so much

But I knoe if I don't read it I won't understand the goodies

Hate that

._.

[latent edge]

yeah many such cases

[solid yarrow]

Also skipping stuff in books is something I havd not done often

I tried that with my current book for the first time

Since ppl told me you don't actually read the whole book most of the time

[latent edge]

yeah that's true you don't read the whole book

I'm trying to remember how many books I fully read

compared to non-finished

that's a big ratio

[solid yarrow]

But how do you approach it? Index and the pick what you want to read an go from there or what's the progress?

Because especially in more basic fields or in UG material you... kinda have to read most of it. Since it's the fundamentals of given field.

[latent edge]

yeah just read most of it

like hmm

i do still take logic classes

but no way I have read any of the books I got fully

[solid yarrow]

Because since I struggle with "vibe reading" I though I could apply something that my analysis prof did, a time table.

Though this would... make it feel like work again.

[latent edge]

i mean idk different people have different ways to do stuff ig

I like my workflow to be more spontaneous

[solid yarrow]

Hm. I might be on the other side of that spectrum then.

Somewhere there atleast

[latent edge]

i see

[latent edge]

i was reading this: https://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1146

It was a bit confusing but I found a better source (more like my prof did)

[solid yarrow]

Onr thing I also do now is skimming stuff first. Do you do this too? Or are you diving into details head on first?