serious-discussion

[visual breach]

If only what inequality to use were ever so slightly visible

[velvet dagger]

T(x) = y is a coset of the kernel of T. Now let T be a differential operator

[solid snow]

I mean somewhat, there are general methods you can use to solve entire classes of ODEs

[timid bronze]

Suremark do u know calc 3 can u tutor

[jagged forge]

fr

[visual breach]

If it were, I won't be struggling in math, since I am good at pattern matchinf

[solid snow]

Like for linear ODE you can technically nuke everything with variation of parameters

[latent edge]

smh it's always triangle inequality in some way or other

[jagged forge]

yeah i had calc 3… sort of, it was a high school multivar class

[velvet dagger]

I don't mind really. Tbh might be a good catalyst to me learning some calc 3. But if someone steps up who is better at that than me then yeah they're ofc free to

[solid snow]

But the method can get too unwieldy to do by hand

[junior veldt]

I mean I like to think I’m good at pattern matching but i still struggle

[visual breach]

Yeah, its just that the expression is too complicated

[latent edge]

hyperbolic laplace operator on function f: H -> C

[velvet dagger]

First example in Deltoid ODEs class is Whittaker functions

[timid bronze]

U can still helpy so can suremark

But who else

[latent edge]

Whittaker functions my beloved

[velvet dagger]

Probably a few people would all be pretty decent at that role

[solid snow]

Green’s functions are pretty cool

Functional analysis overall seems insanely cool

[visual breach]

Calc 3 hmm

[latent edge]

I can explain calc 3 but my explanation will be very complex anal based

[jagged forge]

blah blah blah reductive groups over local fields, this is in too deep bruh

[velvet dagger]

Most late undergrad+ students either know calc 3 or can make shit up on the fly

[timid bronze]

That too hard

[velvet dagger]

Throwback to that one time I absolutely swindled the ever living crap out of a calc 3 class I subbed for

[latent edge]

no lol

i meant like

I will explain calc 3

but with complex anal intuition (which is not bad)

[visual breach]

Actually I forgot why calc 1~3 was hard

[velvet dagger]

You took my winding number idea to heart

[visual breach]

Why is it difficult for many students?

[timid bronze]

Hmm Maybe deltoid Ok

[solid snow]

Compute

[agile fiber]

calc 3 is hard because you have to learn 50 new types of integrals and a half dozen new derivatives

[velvet dagger]

It can be computationally intensive

[timid bronze]

im just not fast at math

[solid snow]

Lots of ideas without much justification thrown at you

[timid bronze]

But dami read my lecture notes when he didnt know and explained it to me well

[velvet dagger]

It's not even the lack of justification imo

[solid snow]

A lot of the time it can appear as just random formulas

[agile fiber]

also because you have to be able to visualize 3D shapes which is hard

[velvet dagger]

It's a pressure test of your algebra and bookkeeping

And on top of that

[visual breach]

No no no, it is not that you have trouble, a lot other students have difficulty as well

[velvet dagger]

Integration is one of the first times in math where you don't have a very clear algorithm

[visual breach]

True

[velvet dagger]

For a lot of earlier stuff you can just follow the rules

But with integration, series tests, and with the geometric stuff like related rates

[jagged forge]

learn differential forms on R^n and then u don’t have to memorize anything

[timid bronze]

i kinda lost my motivation midway of precalc bc of how much problems id get (im not kidding like over 40 problems a night) i started hating math

[velvet dagger]

There isn't an obvious flowchart

[timid bronze]

my pre calc teacher was annoying with hw

[jagged forge]

40 problems a night is crazy

[velvet dagger]

Like there are some heuristics you can come up with, like okay if you don't see a huge fraction and don't find an obvious substitution, maybe try parts

[visual breach]

What if one can just jump from Precalc to Differential manifolds >.>

[velvet dagger]

But as far as just computing derivatives goes, it's completely mechanical

[timid bronze]

Well me need calc

Its ok me stop after linear algebra

No more math class

[jagged forge]

it’s funny how the difficulty is inverted in the numerical setting

[velvet dagger]

But then limits are a bit subtle already: the difference between left and right limits existing, the limit existing, the limit equalling the value of the function

[jagged forge]

i.. what

i saw that ally

[agile fiber]

it's like in linear algebra where the numerical stability of an algorithm is inversely proportional to how hard it is for the intro students to calculate

[velvet dagger]

Derivatives using limit definition is algebra intensive, using rules not so much until you spam which many classes do

Applications of derivatives... There's optimization which gets involved, applied optimization requires knowing how to set things up which requires insight as opposed to just following rules, related rates is pure fuckery

[junior veldt]

multivariate differentiability is also just harder than single variable differentiability

[visual breach]

Ah, differentiability, the nightmares

[dapper badge]

Ok I guess Andersen's paper disproving property (T) for mapping class groups is contested? idk, it was never published and I guess some theorems were proven in different papers which only came out later

[jagged forge]

everything is chain rule fr

[visual breach]

That's because everything is composition

[agile fiber]

on the other hand, in calc 3 (as with all calc classes) the general rule is that all functions are differentiable until proven otherwise

[visual breach]

Composition over inheritance

[velvet dagger]

Integration, tricky to think about at first (Riemann sums are tricky, and even anti derivatives are kinda flipping the mode of thinking)

And then once you learn sub/parts/PFD, now you don't have a flowchart anymore. Maybe this substitution helps, maybe not, maybe you need parts...

[junior veldt]

integration in closed form is certainly harder

[jagged forge]

i did once hear that balancing chemical equations ends up just being linear algebra, which is kind of cool

[junior veldt]

oh yeah I remember reinventing that

back in school

[agile fiber]

systems of linear equations yeah

[junior veldt]

I put arbitrary coefficients and then assumed that total atoms of a given element remained unchanged

since I wasn’t doing any nuclear reactions this turned out fine

[agile fiber]

just wait until you get to doing dimensional analysis with linear algebra

[junior veldt]

I think i already have?

[velvet dagger]

ODEs in calc 2 are a flowchart modulo getting the ODE visually into the form you want

Modeling problems with ODEs depends on how much variance there is. If they only give you one type, you can kinda money see money do. If not, there's a lot to keep up with and you have to think about what applies where

Sequences, series, and Taylor stuff are just sneaky

[visual breach]

Hmm, I think I see. The whole calc 1-2-3 pipeline seems to be designed for engineering and analysis

[velvet dagger]

Calc 3 is a pressure test of your vectorial/geometric intuition, but less computationally intensive than eg calc 2 usually? At least less of the fancy integration tricks

[velvet dagger]

Typically engineering and physics imo

[visual breach]

So that you can compute all the stuff confidently

So for those who want to skip computation, you can, its just less useful

[visual breach]

Ahhh

[agile fiber]

yeah because engineers and physicists and whoever all need it and have much more students, and the math department decided they didn't have the budget for a separate class for math majors

[velvet dagger]

Sometimes a version of calc 3 is offered for econ types

Which will deprioritize stuff like vector calc in favor of more Lagrange multipliers and optimization

[visual breach]

Maybe conceptual mathematics class for just getting to know stuff would be fun

[jagged forge]

recently i saw someone, apparently an econ student, who did measure theory but not linear algebra

some places r crazy bruh

[velvet dagger]

Holy shit

I kinda respect it in a way

[ocean robin]

do econ majors normally take real analysis bc i had a few in my classes

[solid snow]

average shreve reader

[velvet dagger]

I think it's often recommended for those who are grad bound

[jagged forge]

ah yes i can calculate the first time of passage of brownian motion. wait whats multivariate gaussian. uh oh…

[ocean robin]

ahhhh

[velvet dagger]

I wish I did econ in undergrad. I wish I did so much stuff in undergrad ugh

If only I could be an undergrad student for like

A decade

There's just too much stuff out there

[jagged forge]

maybe i would have felt better about undergrad if i didn’t have such a sour experience with the cs department

[latent edge]

LMFAO

CRAZY

[visual breach]

Money constraints, so sad

[velvet dagger]

Not just money in my case, I got good aid

But my school wants you out of there in 4 years

[latent edge]

I wish I did modular forms in high school tbh

[visual breach]

Ouch

[velvet dagger]

Like you need special exception to be allowed to enroll for even one additional quarter

[ocean robin]

real

[visual breach]

I wish I did schemes in high school

[ocean robin]

i want to do physics again

[velvet dagger]

And sometimes they are way too stingy about giving that exception, including in cases that should count as ADA

[latent edge]

real and true

[velvet dagger]

Thinking of a story of a friend of mine who had to move heaven and hell to graduate and I am not very happy about that tbh

[latent edge]

use schemes to construct your favorite local zeta function

[agile fiber]

my uni's math department decided that because they couldn't get econ majors for more than calc 1-3 they would try to stuff in as many topics as possible (probability, linear algebra, ode) on top of standard curriculum

[velvet dagger]

Honestly it's hard for me to say what exactly the strat is for early undergrad

Because truthfully I could see a case for having separate tracks even from calc 1

[visual breach]

Yeah it is theoretically possible to have different tracks from the very beginning, I think

[latent edge]

at some point cuz my uni was about to get bankrupt, they wanted to merge the math department with econ since not a lot of math majors doing pure maths

[visual breach]

We simply lack resources

[latent edge]

most of them are doing quanty shit and whatnot

[velvet dagger]

For reference I don't even mean separate track for math majors

Since I know that at a lot of unis there's not a huge point in creating an entirely new class for a very small number of people that wanna see proofs from day 1

(Hell, a lot of people who end up as math majors probably start in something like physics and might not even take the proofsy class right away)

But the needs of different groups of people who apply math are different

And when you get to multivariable, the divergence is even more pronounced

[earnest grotto]

are the aops self paced courses good for learning

[visual breach]

Truth

[latent edge]

this is mainly what my uni is suffering from tbh

[visual breach]

You might want to do diffgeo at that point

[alpine kindle]

not doing proofs from day 1 feels weird

from a european perspective

[ocean robin]

i didnt do a proof until nearly my third year

[visual breach]

Honestly I see math students doing less proofs

[ocean robin]

to be fair i did start late

[latent edge]

@jaunty ibex

[velvet dagger]

You missed the pun :P

[alpine kindle]

ah lol

[ocean robin]

not shocked, i tend to

[velvet dagger]

"The divergence in calc 3 is more pronounced"

[ocean robin]

ohhhhh

sorry

[visual breach]

Gloss over details to cut through lots of stuff, so you can reach research level in time

[jaunty ibex]

i hate diff geo i hate diff geo

[velvet dagger]

nah tbh I love it when people miss it at first, makes the reveal all the more sweet

But also I am making a real point here

[jaunty ibex]

Reading 32 papers about my research made me realize that I hate diff geo

[velvet dagger]

It's not just a setup

[visual breach]

Sadly manifold stuff seems required for doing most math

[ocean robin]

i just miss every joke at this point LMFAO

[visual breach]

Can likely avoid in-depth diffgeo/difftop tho

[jaunty ibex]

I'd use algebraic geometric techniques any day

[latent edge]

i think it's algebro geometric

[velvet dagger]

I feel like physics and engineering calculus is gonna emphasize how derivative of position is velocity, engineering especially probably cares the most about related rates problems (as a math guy I basically never saw that stuff again, feels like a complete gimmick), vector calc

[alpine kindle]

for us the first year vector calculus stuff is done without much rigour

[jaunty ibex]

dont care

[ocean robin]

i get to do a presentation on unsolved math problems tmr for my friend groups presentation party :3 im really excited

[visual breach]

Woah chad

[alpine kindle]

and then in second year there's a "geometry" course

[velvet dagger]

CS types probably care more about discrete math at first, and maybe need to know stuff like O notation in limits, L'Hopital perhaps but maybe not even

[alpine kindle]

which is done rigorously

[jaunty ibex]

Btw how would you motivate the general definition of a discriminant?

[velvet dagger]

Econ and business want to emphasize the derivative of blah = marginal blah point of view, and will care much more about optimization, eventually Lagrange multipliers

[jaunty ibex]

You'd see it in HS with the quadratic case

[alpine kindle]

of course i am doing a degree composed of specifically mathematics modules

[jaunty ibex]

But never for general stuff

[velvet dagger]

So you can easily imagine splitting the majority of the audience of a calculus class into 3 large groups with very different needs

[jaunty ibex]

Lowkey I never knew a general form existed till I touched algebraic number theory

[velvet dagger]

Teach resultants, then discriminant is resultant of p and p'

[visual breach]

Wait is this real
Soo that was it

[velvet dagger]

Maybe?

Tbh I only barely know what a resultant is

But this felt like a statement that should be true in a just world

Because in just one variable, p has a multiple root if and only if p and p' share a root

[alpine kindle]

this is a true statement

[velvet dagger]

So I just made that up and prayed it's true

[alpine kindle]

from wikipediaing

[velvet dagger]

MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED

[agile fiber]

the next ramanujan fr

[velvet dagger]

Ramanujan was the OG math gpt fr

[latent edge]

id probably yap about galois theory

[alpine kindle]

ok i lied there's actually a constant factor in front

[jaunty ibex]

Number theorist spotted opinion rejected

[steel vessel]

hi

[latent edge]

arent u one as well silly

[velvet dagger]

Constants are nerd shit anyway

(Dami CS arc? Analytic NT arc?)

[visual breach]

CS? Not computer science right

[velvet dagger]

Because you just look at O(blah) in algorithm analysis

So I was jokingly being like ah that was a CS thing to say

[jagged forge]

true for monic polynomials in char 2

oh wtf discord just loaded like 5 messages

smh

[velvet dagger]

Lmfaooooo

Rip

[latent edge]

reminds me one time I was explaining to someone why do you get O(x/logx) in NT then some CS guy came in and was like "oh is that big o notation in CS u guys are doing cs?"

then i was like "this is NT you nerd"

[alpine kindle]

truth nuke

when the characteristic is 2!

[velvet dagger]

"This is the run time of the algorithm which prints every prime number less than x (assume an oracle which just knows the set and doesn't have to do primality testing)"

[latent edge]

sotrue

[velvet dagger]

Honestly you can call most things CS given sufficient oracles

(Did I just rediscover computability theory?)

[timid bronze]

Ew compurer science

Too hard

[velvet dagger]

This is more the part of CS that's secretly math tbf but also yeah CS is highly non-trivial

Though I guess basically every subject is eventually tbh

[timid bronze]

@velvet dagger

R u free to vc rn

[ocean harbor]

its not hard but its cooked

[velvet dagger]

Sadly no, currently still outside

[timid bronze]

It hard hard hard

[timid bronze]

Booooo

[ocean harbor]

ok can i hear your thoughts on why it is hard?

[timid bronze]

Everything

and

[latent edge]

TCS cool

by that i mean everything that might be related to NT

[ocean harbor]

nerd

[timid bronze]

not trying to reinforce stereotypes but the “all of the cs students smell bad” i just think it says a lot about possible mental health struggles

its still an intense field

[ocean harbor]

lmao I can agree with this

[neat lintel]

Wtf

[ocean harbor]

but imo its not hard since many ppl are trying to replace themselves with ai, which had made me quit cs immediately

I had 4.0gpa and im jobless

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ocean harbor]

what

[timid bronze]

oh im sorry

out of curiosity did u specialize in like cybersecurity or smth

[neat lintel]

The world doesn't care about grades unfortunately

[ocean harbor]

no

[velvet dagger]

Yeah the difficulty depends a lot on your vibe with the subject + your profs. Right now CS being swamped is making life hell, but also some CS classes can be brutal

[timid bronze]

yea exactly

[velvet dagger]

Eg if a given prof assigns hard projects

[ocean harbor]

real all they want is experience

[timid bronze]

id think specialization would help in the over saturation

[neat lintel]

Networking and contacts is equally important to grades

[velvet dagger]

Or when you get to stuff like architecture and OS

[latent edge]

I took both arch and OS

OS was ok but arch oh my god

the prof was so bad

[velvet dagger]

I think a friend of mine who took OS told me it was the hardest class he had after the first quarter of honors analysis

Which was a class where the prof assigned 50 problems a week, 20 from Rudin

[ocean harbor]

well i think i did cybersecurity with java and it wasnt that bad

not sure if thats count

[latent edge]

I gotta say arch was a fun class

It was just very badly taught

[ocean harbor]

I honestly dont care about grades so yea this is true

[timid bronze]

cybersecurity yea

id think u care ab grades if u have a 4.0

[twin flicker]

did u have internships

[velvet dagger]

But yeah insofar as the whole hygiene stuff in CS is true, I could definitely see it being a thing where stress/difficulty/burnout results in some kinda executive dysfunction

Which is unfortunate

[latent edge]

made me realize i didnt really give a shit about software and hardware was more my passion when it comes to tech

[ocean harbor]

no

[timid bronze]

love this

[latent edge]

the stereotype behind cs majors not showering/smelly is mostly true in my experience

[velvet dagger]

Interesting, I don't think I often see people who like hardware + math and not software

That's cool

[latent edge]

And tbf i dont blame the students they have to go through shit that is often just impossible

[timid bronze]

yea its just a possible explanation of many of their mental healths

[velvet dagger]

Life do be hard :(

[ocean harbor]

real

[neat lintel]

@velvet dagger Why are my messages being marked

What word isn't allowed

I'm confused

[velvet dagger]

Hard to say without knowing what you're sending but I have a guess

Is it about a certain numerical measure of intelligence?

[timid bronze]

Is it Eye Q

Omg dami dont ban me i bypass

[neat lintel]

Yes, why?

[timid bronze]

U cant talk about Eye Q

[velvet dagger]

Yeah we don't allow talk about that here

[latent edge]

doesn't end in meaningful topics

[velvet dagger]

We had this extended stretch of time where every time that word came up, it turned into a eugenics debate

[jaunty ibex]

CS should be banned i think since it gets toxic

[timid bronze]

Dami hurry up me so bored me wanna vc someone.

[neat lintel]

Massive issue when you try to get your first job. I remember being so pissed off because I knew all the jobs I applied to were really simple yet they wanted me to have experience. Even just standing in a store and selling clothes or something extremely simple that someone incredibly slow could do.

[velvet dagger]

And it was basically unmoderatable

[latent edge]

tech job market competition is

[twin flicker]

i shower but im also not a top cs student

[wicked mirage]

U just suck lol

I'll get the quant job before u

[velvet dagger]

M that's not called for

[latent edge]

????

[velvet dagger]

Knock it off

[timid bronze]

shut up

Atp im just convinced ur some alt

[twin flicker]

for quant u gotta go to a target

usually

[timid bronze]

Funny u say that when u be glazing him like crazy a couple weeks ago

[velvet dagger]

Yeah it's a bit tricky otherwise unless you're competition math

[timid bronze]

Skull emoji

[velvet dagger]

People's allegiances are fickle when they don't get the attention they desire

[timid bronze]

oh oops dami i influenced

just say theyre smart or intelligent then

[twin flicker]

i was doing leetcode a few hours ago i should go back to it

i think i was doing tries

[velvet dagger]

I figure that's what you meant, given the context, which is why I guessed it before you said

[ocean harbor]

well i applied jobs like software developer and i have been rejected a lot. even simple jobs like cashier also been rejected due to not having experience and references. once the fall starts im gonna ask for some references from my professors and maybe next summer should work idk

[wicked mirage]

I'll get my quant position in no time

[velvet dagger]

But the thing is, the word became such a catalyst for bad convos that it got out of control and we had to automod it

[wicked mirage]

Just gotta grind leetcode

[timid bronze]

Smart is too

[velvet dagger]

So it's a cost benefit analysis thing

[storm sage]

Please don't try to evade the filter

[neat lintel]

Smart is not the right word though

[timid bronze]

Sorry eric

[velvet dagger]

Some people have to not use it as a synonym for intelligence, but in exchange for not having eugenics talk every other day

Worthwhile trade

[neat lintel]

To me this seems incredibly bizarre to be happening in a maths discord server

[velvet dagger]

So yeah we're gonna say to just find another way to describe what you wanna say without referencing the numerical measure. If that takes a bit more writing, so be it

[timid bronze]

How thats a better reasoning than idk allowing that talk in idk a grow a garden roblox server

[velvet dagger]

Bizarre that it turns into eugenics talk or bizarre that we automod the word given that it turns into eugenics talk?

[jagged forge]

i sort of assume lots of people come to the math server because they are convinced they have a Huge Brain and want to talk with other Huge Brained Individuals (HBI)

so i don’t think the eugenics talk is that surprising actually

[neat lintel]

Bizarre that it turns into eugenics discussions

[velvet dagger]

Oh, I mean, that's less of a surprise sadly

[twin flicker]

i think the world would be better if people's egos werent reliant on how "smart" they are

[velvet dagger]

Mathematical talent can sometimes transfer over into being able to think about non-math subjects productively but not always

[neat lintel]

Everyone knows though that the test is not a measure of smartness. Like does a test score matter if you aren't doing anything for society or if you don't have money?

[velvet dagger]

Also keep in mind that a group of vaguely talented or academically inclined people is gonna have its share of Quora types and those who look down on people with "inferior intelligence"

[velvet dagger]

Ideally everyone knew that

[twin flicker]

my mom always looks at me weird when i bring out the food scale ts pmo

[velvet dagger]

The reality is... Much more disappointing

[jagged forge]

ya this is kind of what i meant ig

also, “Quora types” is hilarious lmfao

[velvet dagger]

Lmaoooooo

[jagged forge]

no one tell dami i used to use quora

it used to be a nice place ok

[velvet dagger]

Oh I knew that already

[jagged forge]

there were actual math professors on there

[jagged forge]

damn

so i’ve already been judged then

[peak tide]

could be worse, i used to use MSE

[velvet dagger]

Tbh nah your posts didn't seem like those kinds of posts

I think I've used Quora a bit as well

[jagged forge]

wtf

u read my posts?

[latent edge]

LMFAO

[velvet dagger]

I saw a couple, maybe second hand from Arti?

[jagged forge]

[velvet dagger]

Or maybe you showed them?

Some geometric algebra memery as I recall

And/or differential forms

[jagged forge]

@light horizon YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS

[velvet dagger]

It may have been you rather than Arti for what it's worth

It's less that I remember this interaction in any detail so much as

[jagged forge]

i definitely never posted my quora posts here

[velvet dagger]

Arti feels like the type of person who would talk about this

[jagged forge]

no i remember, arti dug up some GA posts on my quora lmfao

[velvet dagger]

Actually the funniest thing is, there's this one fellow grad student who has the exact name as a Quora user whose profile description was "I like to think about the world using math"

[wicked mirage]

Eugenics play a factor in how you do well academically or in jobs

[jagged forge]

oh for fucks sake

[velvet dagger]

And the whole post history was answering arithmetic questions and eventually getting very jaded and insulting the people asking them

[velvet dagger]

Can you elaborate?

(Nobody else say anything)

(I wanna know M's perspective here)

[storm sage]

anything

[velvet dagger]

Dammit Eric

Wait do you mean eugenics or genetics actually?

Those are different words

[wicked mirage]

Someone will always be better than you at something

[neat lintel]

I remember seeing some video of a mathematician getting into beef with the mensa community. It was kind of funny

[velvet dagger]

That doesn't feel like it has anything to do with eugenics though

[wicked mirage]

I'm not done

[craggy parcel]

has mensa actually done anything

[velvet dagger]

Oh okay

[craggy parcel]

or is it just club for people to feel smart

[wicked mirage]

I don't believe in whatever mensa does or the intelligence tests

[neat lintel]

I think it's this

[wicked mirage]

Banning someone from doing something because of this is next level 1984

[craggy parcel]

huh

[velvet dagger]

Banning someone due to lack of membership in Mensa, they mean

[craggy parcel]

oh

[velvet dagger]

I can just read everyone's mind fr

[wicked mirage]

Yeah that or I mean for example if you do an intelligence test and you get a bad score on it then you are banned from applying to universities

[storm sage]

What am I thinking rn

[craggy parcel]

kinda based ngl

[velvet dagger]

You're thinking about how the cosmos hums with a tune most sweet

[neat lintel]

I've seen videos too like "visiting the country's smartest person" and it's just some random person who got a high test score and turns out to be pretty silly

[craggy parcel]

idk what youre on about with the eugenics thing but i agree meritocracy is a sham for the most part

[velvet dagger]

I think the connection there is coming and it's a bit different from what we all originally thought

Like I have a pretty good idea what this might be building up toward

[craggy parcel]

yeah i think its gonna be like ||social eugenics a la socioeconomic factors limiting your potential||

[wicked mirage]

Then you get to the part where people get rid of "bad samples" and increase the population of people with high intelligence scores

[storm sage]

I cannot imagine a scenario where I would be thinking this

[timid bronze]

dont tell me this is sort of spilling into an EU talk

[velvet dagger]

It's a convo which at first seems like it's going there but then it isn't

The phrasing is confusing

[craggy parcel]

fr i hate the european union

[timid bronze]

Woahhhh esca

[craggy parcel]

sorry i let the racism slip out

[velvet dagger]

I think basically what M wants to say is that in society, a lot of stuff is gatekept behind numerical measures of performance, because some people want to believe that this is the true measure of competence

[neat lintel]

I love it

[velvet dagger]

So your ability to get jobs being tied to grades is almost a form of mini eugenics, in that having good opportunities (and on a more basic level, sustenance) is gatekept behind precisely the same criteria that eugenicists would want to use when deciding who gets to exist

[jagged forge]

my employer did not give a shit about my grades or academic achievements

but i did have a referral

[wicked mirage]

Yes and this can go wrong in many ways

[velvet dagger]

Eugenics debunked

Jkjk but it is true that there's another layer to the analysis where half the time grades and such are actually a function of socioeconomic factors

[jagged forge]

yup

[timid bronze]

Suremark did u birth ur furry babies yet

Esca is one of them

and dami is the other

[velvet dagger]

Like as far as I know, eugenics isn't just immoral, it's also bad science. As one early elementary teacher I've heard online said, I don't know which kids have the smart genes, but I know which kids were read to by their parents

[jagged forge]

what r u even doing 🥀

[velvet dagger]

And those socioeconomic factors can still help you go up in society even when they don't really manifest as grades

[wicked mirage]

Eugenics is everywhere

It's applied in some aspects unfortunately

When you have limited positions for a job I understand why they do this

[timid bronze]

Can the eugenics talk stop pls

[velvet dagger]

This isn't exactly eugenics talk

[timid bronze]

Someone is gonna come in here and make it offensive at some point

[timid bronze]

Yeah but bc its being directly mentioned

[velvet dagger]

Yeah but my point is that, society partially gatekeeping opportunities around grades and such is arguably less an instance of eugenics being implemented and is almost an emergent phenomenon, when what's "truly happening underneath" is that your ability to do well in society is a function of your existing status. So it's closer to classism imo

[wicked mirage]

It's a mixture of classism and eugenics imo

[velvet dagger]

Yeah I see what you mean. I mean if anyone endorses it we'll whack, but right now this is just a certain phrasing of what's actually something of a quality discussion I'd say

[wicked mirage]

Anyhow I will stop

I apologize

[timid bronze]

i mean im not a mod u dont have to say sry

[timid bronze]

Fair

[timid bronze]

just supporting ur furry babies

[velvet dagger]

LMAO

Suremark villain origin story being written as we speak

[neat lintel]

We're all a bit classist. I mean if you have to choose to hire someone who's dressed in nice clothes or someone who looks rough and smells of sweat you'll most of the time pick the person wearing nice clothes.

Given they are otherwise pretty similar

[velvet dagger]

I mean there's how things work within the system vs commentary on the system. It not easy to hire people without having some of your implicit biases factor in, and on a more basic level many forms of gatekeeping are gonna be classist by transitivity

[craggy parcel]

well systemic classism is a different conversation from individual classist biases, although theres interplay betweej the two

yeah same thought lol dami

[peak tide]

i even hired a few people who wore suits to the interview despite being instructed not to

[velvet dagger]

Eg it's easier to be competent at things when you had a more comfortable upbringing

So if you make your hiring decisions based on people's competence, which I would say nobody thinks of as unreasonable, tada systemic classism is already in play

[light horizon]

I’m fucking crying

This is so funny

[jagged forge]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-fist-arthur-憤怒-gif-5794225

[craggy parcel]

suremark used to be a quora user?

[velvet dagger]

But yeah that's why when people lament it, it's more a statement that we wish we had (and would like to work toward) a world in which people aren't screwed from day 1 because their parents are in poverty and don't have the time to invest in their education and well being

[jagged forge]

when i was in high school i answered some math questions on quora yes

[light horizon]

He was a quora GA crank

[craggy parcel]

i wonder if ill look back at discord in the same day one day

same way

[jagged forge]

one of them was some question about "how can i use geometric algebra for XYZ thing" and my answer was there's no reason to do that

but of COURSE ARTI labels me a GA CRANK

[ocean robin]

this explains a lot

[latent edge]

holy shit

[light horizon]

There were def at least two smh

[light horizon]

TRUE

[latent edge]

suremark was GA enthusiast?

[jagged forge]

tf does this mean

???????

[ocean robin]

especially with the ahem accusations /j

[craggy parcel]

in hs though bro has always been cracked

[jagged forge]

i was NOT

[light horizon]

He was literally wraith as a kid

[jagged forge]

WHAT

[jagged forge]

WHAT

[latent edge]

@zealous garden

Geometric algebra.

[craggy parcel]

i didnt even know what a proof was until like last year

[ocean robin]

on the iceberg

your section

[jagged forge]

this is BULLSHIT and i WILL NOT be slandered

[latent edge]

isnt that a thing u eat at breakfast?

[ocean robin]

REALLY???

yall its so joever for me

[latent edge]

there is a difference between knowing what a proof is and how to come up with proofs

[light horizon]

I guess I’ve been doing serious math for a while 2 years now, which is crazy

It doesn’t feel like it’s been that long

[ocean robin]

ive been doing serious math for like a few months by now?

justttt getting started

[jagged forge]

that means i've been doing serious math longer than all yall 🥀

well, depending on your definition of serious ig

[ocean robin]

and youre cracked

[ocean robin]

true

[light horizon]

“Has proofs” I suppose

[craggy parcel]

yeah youll get there

[ocean robin]

my "serious" is just taking proof based classes

i have taken three (3) total

[jagged forge]

ah well then yea

[latent edge]

i've been doing serious math for 4 years i think

[ocean robin]

maybe 5 actually if you include elementary linear algebra "proofs"

which is just showing stuff algebraically instead of full on proofs

[light horizon]

I’m currently working on raising the next generation of fasttrackers

One of these sixth graders knows calculus and graph theory

[ocean robin]

oooh nice!

[jagged forge]

there was one girl at my school who was doing calculus in 6th grade, she was the math teacher's daughter

[jaunty ibex]

Jesus what the fuck

[jagged forge]

i have no clue what she's up to now tho

[jaunty ibex]

I'm actually scared of u now deltoid

Arti as well

[ocean robin]

i only taught myself calculus as a high school senior bc i hated precalc

[jaunty ibex]

yall cracked mfs

[ocean robin]

and i failed precalc PFFT

[jagged forge]

ngl i feel like i learned nothing in precalc

i could have just skipped it entirely

[ocean robin]

but hey it paid off i got all A's in my calc classes

[jagged forge]

school system wasting my time, sigh

[ocean robin]

real

[jagged forge]

i was also in algebra 1 for 2 years because we didnt have a teacher

[peak tide]

i'm not sure i had even heard of calculus when i was in 6th grade

[jagged forge]

so i just worked through the book at a glacial pace

[latent edge]

real and true

[ocean robin]

i was supposed to skip algebra 2 and trig bc i basically already knew it but then life stuff happened and so i was put in algebra 2 and never got to ap calc

sad times but oh well

[jagged forge]

pretty based

[latent edge]

tbh one of the main reasons i was a bad HS student (aside from shitty HS experience) was me just learning math most of my time and not giving a shit about what we do in precalc classes

[ocean robin]

yuh! at least i think i got all A's one second

[jagged forge]

sounds like me getting a C in multivar calc

A's on the tests, 0s on the homeworks

[ocean robin]

i also got a C in multivar calc

we have multi var as separate classes than calc in my uni

[latent edge]

logarithmic functions? oh please ill do Complex Analysis, Serge Lang, XV, §4. Exercises: 1. (c)

[ocean robin]

ew complex log

get that branch selection away from me

[jagged forge]

i thought u liked complex analysis

[latent edge]

i never understood complex anal haters

[ocean robin]

i do just not complex logs LMFAOOO

[jagged forge]

where's the reddit post

[latent edge]

L take lol

[ocean robin]

"complex analysis is trivial"

[latent edge]

if complex anal was trivial then we would have GRH by then

[ocean robin]

thats gotta be ragebait

[latent edge]

def a ragebait

[jagged forge]

yea it is

[light horizon]

It’s posted on r/shittymath

[peak tide]

the disdain in my analysis prof's voice when he would say "ANALYSIS, not complex analysis"

[ocean robin]

oh i didnt know that

[latent edge]

my anal prof would say "yall like the real or the complex anal type"

[ocean robin]

i hate analysis i'm sorry

[latent edge]

out of context was crazy

[ocean robin]

i despise real analysis 🥀🪫

[light horizon]

The baby real you’ve probably been exposed to is indeed boring

[ocean robin]

its not boring i'm just bad

[latent edge]

intro real anal is boring

[jagged forge]

i really just see it as necessary tool

[ocean robin]

but hopefully it gets better if i get into grad school

we shall see we shall see

[jagged forge]

you need it to be able to do anything interesting in analysis

[unborn meteor]

LMAO

[latent edge]

it gets interesting when u use the stuff u learn and call boring

just like communist algebra tbh

like raw communist algebra is so boring

[ocean robin]

i just want to stay away from suprema

i know it isn't possible

but i hate it

[jagged forge]

zruh

[ocean robin]

or at least make it fun like integration was

[peak tide]

one memorable lecture he started with "we will need the basic results from complex analysis, but we need them for banach-space-valued functions", and proceeds in 75 minutes to redo complex analysis in that setting

[ocean robin]

integration was so much fun

[latent edge]

compute integrals (haar measure)

[timid bronze]

stop

be a normal person and say bruh

[latent edge]

based ally

[jagged forge]

i like zruh

u cant take it from me

[ocean robin]

being so defiant, is this your third trimester?

[jagged forge]

the sully + heart is crazy lmfao

[jaunty ibex]

Deltoid and ally are uncs

zruh

[timid bronze]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[jagged forge]

..

what r u chip

[latent edge]

number theorist spotted opinion invalid

[craggy parcel]

i was just about to say this

[ocean robin]

is this serious or is this a way of telling me to stop

[timid bronze]

What

[timid bronze]

Serious

[ocean robin]

OH YAY

[timid bronze]

Girl do yk how mcuh i bully him for being a pregnant furry

LMAO

[ocean robin]

i know and i love it

[light horizon]

Noncommie algebra is the good stuff

[ocean robin]

i still need to make fanart

[latent edge]

true

[jagged forge]

great now arti's here and he's going to bully me for being a GA crank allegedly

my day is going great

[ocean robin]

@jagged forge send your ref sheet of your fursona

[latent edge]

lol GA crank

[jagged forge]

my WHAT

[ocean robin]

HAHAHA

[latent edge]

fursona 💀

[jagged forge]

https://tenor.com/view/purge-gif-12422702707812710497

[timid bronze]

did u need a c section

for ur. babies

[ocean robin]

i rhink thats what its called

like furry + persona

[latent edge]

yeah fursona

[ocean robin]

SEE

I WAS RIGHT

[jagged forge]

girl be real. ur the one that's 4'11

[timid bronze]

Idc what it is im never doing a c section

unless ihave to

[timid bronze]

WTF

[light horizon]

Plural…

[ocean robin]

so short women cant be doctors?

[timid bronze]

MY HEIGHT EONT MATTER INN BIRTH

[ocean robin]

wow suremark

[timid bronze]

Oh wait ir ead that wrong

I thought h ew as saying if ur 4'11 u cant push out the baby

[jagged forge]

bruh

i mean

[ocean robin]

i'm kidding

[jagged forge]

my mother is 5'0 and had to have 3 c sections

[latent edge]

tbh natural pregnancy is not always possible. Not all women are built the same

[timid bronze]

Awe and u have 10 babies

[craggy parcel]

10

wasnt it 3 before

[ocean robin]

following in your mom's footsteps aww

[timid bronze]

yea he got promoted

[craggy parcel]

ts a geometric sequence

[ocean robin]

soon it will converge to 1/(1-r)

[craggy parcel]

1 -> 3 -> 9 +/- epsilon

[timid bronze]

suremark when r u and kawaii chan marrying

[jagged forge]

1/(1-r) for r > 1

[craggy parcel]

who

[timid bronze]

Use this command

[timid bronze]

his gf

[jagged forge]

some fanfiction character she made up

[craggy parcel]

WHO

[ocean robin]

idk girl the sum of all natural numbers in -1/12

[jaunty ibex]

Stochastic and probability gotta be the most boring topics out there

[jagged forge]

ew number theory. phtooie, phteugh, bleugh

[ocean robin]

i dont study number theory

WHAT IS THAT GIF

[timid bronze]

Him and his wife

MLFAO

[jagged forge]

i wasnt even paying attention and im glad

[latent edge]

same

[ocean robin]

i was

[timid bronze]

tabby and i have reral humor

[craggy parcel]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

[timid bronze]

And esca

[ocean robin]

we do

[latent edge]

reral

[ocean robin]

rural

what in tarnation

[timid bronze]

U make more typo

[latent edge]

-1/12 has nice cohomological properties

[ocean robin]

WHY DID MY TABS DISAPPEAR IN CHROME

I HAD 99+ AND NOW I HAVE 3

[jagged forge]

karma

[latent edge]

the difference is I don't care

[timid bronze]

Damn

[ocean robin]

meh it doesnt affect me, you sound pretty emotional though

are your hormones acting up?

[latent edge]

like im talking really fast so i dont really mind it

[timid bronze]

bc ur suremarks doctor for his furry pregnancy u have too much documentation of him

[latent edge]

i dot want to to check my messages beoore sending

[jagged forge]

w h a t t h e f u c k

[timid bronze]

ur computers overwhelmed

LOOOL

I CANT

[ocean robin]

thats right and he needs to schedule his next ultrasound

[timid bronze]

True u sometimes talk fast in vc too

[latent edge]

yea

then stutter gets me and I bleak

[timid bronze]

Ok i should probably get running to work

[timid bronze]

I stutter too dw

[timid bronze]

LMDOMAOMAOm

[latent edge]

[timid bronze]

those babies be kicking!

NO BU T IM SCARED FOR KICKING BABIES

I DONT WANT THEM TO KICK ME

[latent edge]

my mom had to deal with this shit

[ocean harbor]

[ocean robin]

[ocean harbor]

[ocean robin]

[ocean harbor]

[ocean robin]

noooo dont shake the kitty 😭😭😭

[craggy parcel]

[fossil bronze]

[queen bobcat]

Great horrors have taken place in this chat

[tight furnace]

guys

how do you logic gate

📧

[queen bobcat]

dies of computer science

[tight furnace]

🤫

[neat lintel]

Electronics logic gates?

[queen bobcat]

Logic gates electronics?

[craggy parcel]

logic electronics gates?

[jaunty ibex]

@latent edge CELESTE

Are you an 🥚

[vernal iron]

lol

He's playing Celeste rn? based

[jaunty ibex]

Deltoid definitely an 🥚

[vernal iron]

I don't think so ngl

but /shrug

[jaunty ibex]

Idk

I see patterns

[vernal iron]

fair

I have a friend who has clocked like 12 people so I will socially manipulate Deltoid and her to interact mwahahahahahahahhahaha

[latent edge]

I am automorphic

Try again

[jaunty ibex]

Ok but in fairness

Celeste players are hot

[latent edge]

[jaunty ibex]

Sorry

[vernal iron]

💀

[agile fiber]

well you do something like

\begin{circuitikz}
\draw (0,0) coordinate (A) node[left]{$A$} to[short, o-] ++(1.5,0) coordinate(split) to ++(.5,0) nodexor port, anchor = in 1{};
\draw (XOR.out) to[short, -o] ++ (1,0) node[right]{$S$};
\draw (XOR.in 2 -| A) coordinate(B) node[left]{$B$} +(1.5,0) nodejump crossing{} (B) to[short, o-] ++(0.5, 0) coordinate(jct2) to (cross.west) (cross.east) to (XOR.in 2);
\draw (jct2) to[short, *-] ++ (0,-2) coordinate (Bl) to (Bl -| XOR.in 2) nodeand port, anchor = in 2{} (AND.out) to[short, -o] ++(1,0) node[right]{$C$};
\draw (split) to (cross.north) (cross.south) to (AND.in 1 -| cross) to (AND.in 1);
\end{circuitikz}

and then repeat that a bunch of times i guess

[fathom swallow]

cloud

[steel vessel]

wtf

[agile fiber]

it just a binary half added

[gentle birch]

Morning

[coarse bridge]

[wise bloom]

Sum and cary right

Sum has Boolean exp

A Xor B

And Carry has A.B

[agile fiber]

yes

[deep mango]

:/

[gentle birch]

what

[tough stratus]

@coarse bridge my mom said yes 💍 💞

[tough stratus]

you'll better understand it if you gain an understanding of boolean algebra

then SR latches will become easier to understand

[timid bronze]

Me dont wanna sleeeeeeep

Taking off makeup too much Work

Ugh im gonna do it

[latent edge]

bro is overworking or something

are u

?

[cerulean linden]

just sleep with the makeup

and get lots of pimples

[queen bobcat]

Putting on makeup is probably too much work

I imagine the quantity diverges literally when one calculates the work

[cerulean linden]

lets all converge towards productive discussion topics

[queen bobcat]

Like math

[cerulean linden]

perhaps not

[latent edge]

I learned what is a Hauptmodul

[cerulean linden]

[queen bobcat]

Got his ass

[jaunty ibex]

Never heard of this before

It seems like it's something I should be learning lol

[latent edge]

Yeah geometric aspects I'm not aware of yet

[jaunty ibex]

What book are u using bte

[latent edge]

Diamond and Shurman

just skimming over the stuff i know and fixating on the stuff idk

[jaunty ibex]

Added to my list

Thanks

[timid bronze]

I mean work can be tiring yea but no im not overworking

[dusty grotto]

can somebody give me a hard topic that i can get into in math so i can challenge myself i finished hg

[timid bronze]

u mentioned u do though

so u shouldnt be

[timid bronze]

i mean depends i dont put on a lot unless its special occassion

im jus lazy to wash it off sometimes but i do eventually

[dusty grotto]

i love futanari

https://tenor.com/view/teto-hoppy-easter-on-my-way-fortnite-futaba-gif-9060745553252557230

[latent edge]

my prof has been nice about this and told me to take break when i need it

i've been just misunderstanding her the whole time

W advisor

[timid bronze]

yes pls do dont overwork urself

[latent edge]

when i do it

esp when the thing im doing is fun

i dont feel bad somehow

[timid bronze]

yes though there r health consequences

regardless of how much u love smth u also need breaks

also avoids burn out

[velvet dagger]

Yeah permanent stress has definitely had its effect on me, both health and burnout

It's hard to know when it kicks in but it does

Be cautious everyone

Also don't get addicted to soda

[timid bronze]

yea i was alarmed one time by

seeing a tiktok of a girl whos premed at harvard studying for over 12 hours a day and

not rly eating anything and just sleep deprived

[latent edge]

we have like a hardcore math prof here that does this all the time

[timid bronze]

an someone in the comments was like

[latent edge]

like when i visit him you could see his eyes are red

idk it's weird

[timid bronze]

their huge constant stress from uni made them develop a chronic illness

[latent edge]

human brain is weird

[junior veldt]

aaaaa

[velvet dagger]

Yeah tbh it's not even about the amount of time you spend necessarily

[junior veldt]

how do people do that even

[timid bronze]

i forgot which i can check if needed

[timid bronze]

i mean i did it

but i took breaks

[velvet dagger]

Like if you spend so much time working that you neglect your physical health that's bad

[timid bronze]

i just dont know the best study method for me yet

[junior veldt]

I’ve never managed that much work in a single day

[velvet dagger]

Get enough asleep, eat well

But even ambient stress is a nightmare

[junior veldt]

mhm…

[fresh comet]

I cannot study for more than 3-4hrs at a time

[timid bronze]

bad

[velvet dagger]

Which imo is a real occupational hazard for those who do grad school

[timid bronze]

yea i just focus in

but

i still eat drink water etc

[fresh comet]

the frustration in me just grows and then I need to stop

[timid bronze]

i get up and move

[latent edge]

he is aware it is bad lmao

[velvet dagger]

Even the time you don't spend working on math, the fact that you should be working on math is in the back of your mind

Or other aspects of the situation like worried about job prospects and all

[timid bronze]

i actually like switching study spots i hate studying in the same spot all day

[junior veldt]

luckily this seems to have decreased significantly since I started transitioning

[timid bronze]

so anyway im walking regardless

[velvet dagger]

One thing that's very difficult to learn how to do but imo very helpful if you can

[timid bronze]

yea but anyway pls get ur rest

u deserve it

[velvet dagger]

Is to try to make the breaks you take real breaks

[junior veldt]

mhm, definitely

[velvet dagger]

I feel like if you count how many productive hours I've spend on math in grad school, it's much less than undergrad

[timid bronze]

thinking ab the thing aint a break

[latent edge]

i struggle with this a lot

[junior veldt]

same, so far

[velvet dagger]

But in undergrad, when I finished my problem sets and any applicable exams

That's it I'm done

If I'm still doing math, it's recreational math and is basically as much of a break as doing a non-math activity since there's no stress involved

And if I'm not doing math, I'm just doing whatever I'm doing. Games, talking to people, resting, etc

But in grad school, I spend way less time actually productive

[latent edge]

my work is math and my break is math

[timid bronze]

i do too ill be honest

[latent edge]

it's just math but no stress

[velvet dagger]

But then all the time that isn't productive is stressful

So I neither got much done, nor did I really recover very much

[timid bronze]

just make sure u all still take care of urselves

[velvet dagger]

(Also my sleep quality was bad)

[timid bronze]

drink water, move ur body, eat, sleep, get off screen

ok wait thats hard to read without comma

[latent edge]

im watching a vid rn on a girl explaining how gen alpha is cooked when it comes to education now that we have AI

[timid bronze]

i dislike how the pros of AI r always ignored

[velvet dagger]

So yeah idk it's hard to do when it feels like your ability to have a good life for the next few decades is strongly dependent on how things are going in the near future

[timid bronze]

i do truly get the cons but

[velvet dagger]

Tbh I think AI is in principle pretty good but right now it's just not there yet

[timid bronze]

it frustrates me when ppl cant look at both sides of a story

[timid bronze]

oh yea i have lots of cons i can argue

[velvet dagger]

e.g. there might be some skills which degrade by use of AI

[tough stratus]

its so crazy

[latent edge]

Pros of AI for the average (ironic) student:
cheating

[velvet dagger]

Honestly, if AI is perfectly reliable about those skills

[timid bronze]

not saying ai is the best

[velvet dagger]

Then imo it's fine to declare those skills somewhat obsolete

[junior veldt]

sorry to hear :(

[timid bronze]

gen alpha students r underperforming though from what teachers say on social media and statistics

[velvet dagger]

Yeah someone posted a study the other day about neurological effects of AI usage and apparently it was a bit concerning

[timid bronze]

When im a parent im not giving my kid any phone until middle school fr and when i do that shit will be restricted af

[tough stratus]

i think i know what ur talking about

[velvet dagger]

I didn't check them myself though to know exactly what the conclusions were

Just that people were like holy shit this is scary

[latent edge]

I mean it is also happening with uni students tbh

[tough stratus]

they showed images of dopamine responses on AI usage and i think it was significantly higher when using AI

than without

[timid bronze]

Yea thats why u r here to help me with math

😄

[latent edge]

high tier of AI usage was found among premeds, cs, engineering and nursing majors

[velvet dagger]

Idk if what I saw was dopamine, it was more that they had people perform tasks with AI and then eventually without, vs vice versa, and there were more neural connections or smth?

Tbh gen alpha underperformance isn't strictly AI though

[tough stratus]

it mightve not been dopamine

all i saw was brains and colors

[velvet dagger]

I think covid-era education kinda lobotomized a lot of people

[latent edge]

covid era is not a starter though

it was more of a booster

[timid bronze]

im pr sure thats what hes saying

[velvet dagger]

Also I've heard that being raised by iPads didn't help? Though idk much of the details of how widespread that is (since back in my day they were talking about kids being raised by TV anyway, so in particular I wonder if the difference between gen Z and gen alpha is that... Maybe it's more widespread?)

[velvet dagger]

Deltoid's saying that the rot started before covid even

[timid bronze]

yea i thought thats what u were claiming

[timid bronze]

i saw a tt of a kid sitting alone at a table on his ipad at a restaurant

his family already left

and he was just busy on his ipad

[velvet dagger]

Well, I wasn't yet claiming that in the message Deltoid replied to, though I was building up to it. The first level of claim was that it's not AI's fault entirely, and the first example I had was that online learning (even aside from the chatgpt aspect) was just big time low quality

[latent edge]

idk nowadays I feel like if you rely on school you are going to lose in the long run

[velvet dagger]

And that stuff really propagates. If you had a year or two of online learning where your read comprehension skills just don't advance or even degrade, even if you never touch chatgpt

It sets off a cycle which ends poorly

[velvet dagger]

Not necessarily? Like ofc you won't show a transcript and boom that gets you stuff, you have to network and get internships and stuff

But I will say being academically good can take you far, if nothing else it facilitates some of the other stuff

[timid bronze]

yea ai is just being used incorrectly and theres teacher shortages + many kids arent being raised right

[latent edge]

I meant like if you don't do stuff outside school/more learning outside school, you won't do much

sure academic excellence is a good thing

[velvet dagger]

Depends on what you're trying to do

[timid bronze]

Dami can u vc tmrw At 3

[velvet dagger]

I think you're imagining a math path where yeah classes can only take you so far

[velvet dagger]

I believe so yeah

[latent edge]

im imagining something else rn

[velvet dagger]

What are you thinking of?

[latent edge]

it should be true for engineers and cs majors as well

[velvet dagger]

Hmmm... I can't comment for engineering, for CS I would say it depends

[timid bronze]

i can also do 9:20

pm

[latent edge]

for cs academics alone will do nothing

[velvet dagger]

Well, my point is that stuff outside of classes you need to do in CS doesn't seem to be learning more/better CS necessarily

But non-intellectual things such as networking and internships

[latent edge]

if your school has a competitive internship hiring process to pick students for intern sure that might require grades but my uni supposed to have one (?) but it's basically nonexistent

[velvet dagger]

I guess grinding leetcode as well?

[latent edge]

yeah you want to get in the daunting leetcode culture

(I never got into it and I still thank myself to this day)

[velvet dagger]

But yeah it seems like the stuff you need to do outside of classes in CS to get good software engineering jobs is less "learning-y" to succeed there than what you need to do in math

[timid bronze]

Ok my bed time good night

[latent edge]

well you also need personal projects right

that is extra learning

[velvet dagger]

Good night Ally!

[latent edge]

Good night

[velvet dagger]

Tbh I've seen fairly mixed advice on that sort of thing

Maybe this has to do with the type of universities I've gone to? But I've def gotten the vibe that a lot of people just have good grades, have good contacts, grind leetcode, do internships, get followup offers at companies

[tough stratus]

my god

[latent edge]

when was this

[velvet dagger]

Definitely in 2015-2019, though at that time it wasn't even as much about the contacts. It was just not that hard to get to an interview, and now it's about your leetcode

Nowadays it seems, even moreso than projects, referrals are the name of the game

[latent edge]

yeah back then I can see that

[timid bronze]

2015 BEST YEAR OF MY LIFE

[latent edge]

nowadays it feels very RNG

[velvet dagger]

True, yeah I guess we're talking about two different approaches to the SWE job market. Projects increase the RNG in your favor, referrals sidestep it :P

But your ability to have good referrals is only somewhat dependent on your skill, so projects are a more "surefire way" to increase your standing regardless of where you're at

[latent edge]

if you get a referral that would get you in the foot better

[velvet dagger]

Honestly probably same

[steel vessel]

dami ally ily

[velvet dagger]

I think for me, 2014-2018 was just PEAK

And 2015 especially

[velvet dagger]

Love you too Clau!

[latent edge]

if you remove 2014 then everything from the time i was born until 2018 was peak

[junior veldt]

For me each year has just been hit after hit recently

[velvet dagger]

I think I gave a tier list of different stages in my life

[timid bronze]

I love you more baby girl

[latent edge]

I should make a tierlist for different stages in my life

[velvet dagger]

Okay I was gonna do it by year but the thing is, it's more academic year than year

[timid bronze]

wait im gonna rank ages of my life starting 10 thx for keeping me up now i have work at 8

[latent edge]

is it going downwards or upwards?

[junior veldt]

upwards!!

[latent edge]

LETS GOOOOOOO

[timid bronze]

wait nvm im gonna do starting 13

[junior veldt]

y’know this is very strongly correlated with like

time I have spent not at home

[velvet dagger]

Actually yeah if I'm doing academic years, summer to summer is approximately age anyway since I was born in summer

[junior veldt]

oh nice same

[latent edge]

yk like how people say covid was a bad era for learning. I was incredibly productive in the self learning aspects

[junior veldt]

oh I didn’t do much self-learning at all until recently

but I did manage to grow some friendships over Covid :>

[latent edge]

yay

[timid bronze]

1. 20 (not 20 yet but whatever)
2. 13
3. 14 19
4. 15 16 17 18

1 very good
4 very bad

Thats my ranking

[latent edge]

I think my self study era started when I tried to teach myself music theory back when I was in grade 7

I can't remember why did I start music theory

[timid bronze]

covid destroyed my eye contact skills

im learning it again but

[latent edge]

ggs

[junior veldt]

interestingly enough, for me I actively avoided self study until, like, my masters

[velvet dagger]

26-27: some fun times but with rough low points
25: had an okay time
24: low points were rough
23: would rather have been in a coma
21-22: pretty good overall though got worse with time
16-20: I WANNA GO BACK
14-15: good
13: would rather have been in a coma
12: quite good
9-11: not great
5-8: memory starts fading but I think quite good

[latent edge]

why did you avoid?

[velvet dagger]

It seems like the years in which the ones digit is 3 are the worst ones

[timid bronze]

for me just 15-18 was bad tbh

[velvet dagger]

Not looking forward to 33...

[timid bronze]

rest eh ok

or good

idk i just seriously have had a love hate relationship with hs

[latent edge]

I can list major bad events that happened in my life

big one at 2014

5 big ass ones around high school era

[timid bronze]

didnt know love hate relationships was possible till now

[velvet dagger]

I was in Texas ages 9-13, end of 22 through 23... Notice a pattern?

[junior veldt]

hmm…

basically I really enjoyed and depended on the friendships I made through school (cause home was )

but I noticed that I often felt quite “othered” if I was too far ahead of everyone else, and that made me isolated and sad :(

so often I deliberately chose to learn things at the same time as everyone else, just for that sense of “we’re all in this together” and being seen as “just another student”, not some kind of unreachable super-smart person

[latent edge]

oh wow

I was this "super unreachable person"

it felt really bad

: (

[junior veldt]

sorry to hear :(

[velvet dagger]

And I am in Texas now for 28 so tbh my hopes are not up

[junior veldt]

i mean this also meant i was definitely a lot further behind than my peers when i got to cambridge

[timid bronze]

ill be honest

[junior veldt]

cause, uh, it’s not uncommon to have done a bunch of self-study if you’re the kind of person who gets into Cambridge

[timid bronze]

people r often scared of approaching people who dont talk to others because theyre also scared

its because they dont want to bother u

[latent edge]

like at some point my math teacher thought i had some disease that makes me look young and in reality my age is 33 or something

[timid bronze]

ur scared but they could also be scared

[junior veldt]

oh I wasn’t scared of other people

I just didn’t want them to be scared of me

[timid bronze]

oh i get that

[junior veldt]

like, I enjoyed video games and TV shows and anime as much as they did

[latent edge]

i remember in grade 11 I think we had to present the book we read and talk about what is it/key points/would you recommend it

[junior veldt]

i wanted them to see those parts of me, not just the “good at math” part

[latent edge]

everyone choose a book that is about some cartoonish story whatever or you know like novel stories

[velvet dagger]

I was talking with friends quite recently about stereotypes surrounding nerdery and such

[timid bronze]

lowkey i found it easy to talk to nerds

[latent edge]

mine was just philosophical 🗿

[timid bronze]

i found it HARD to talk to jocks

[junior veldt]

i see…

[latent edge]

https://books.google.ca/books/about/What_is_Mathematics_Really.html?id=R-qgdx2A5b0C

Goated book btw

[timid bronze]

(probably because 89% of them r racist sexist homophobic ableist /j)

[latent edge]

I can relate lol

literally the most unapproachable type of people

[velvet dagger]

It started with one guy mentioning that some big competition math guy in China does math all the time and is one of the best by far, and gets insulted for having no social skills and not being able to shower on his own (I think they just make that up about him)

[timid bronze]

real and a lot of them r so mean

[velvet dagger]

And then that kinda turned into the whole nerd stereotype discussion

[timid bronze]

meaner than the stem elitists fr

[latent edge]

fr

[timid bronze]

(not saying all of stem is elitist btw)

[latent edge]

funny enough I do gym so im kinda a jock? idk