serious-discussion

[sonic sentinel]

would you still be mad at the gadget

[ember lance]

idk tbh. Let me think.

Well after a moment of thought, I am leaning towards no.

[sonic sentinel]

your being pissed at the ethics of training the gadget should be identical whether that gadget ends up making dookie art or ends up making art way better than you. you can be pissed towards other stuff, like why the guy would make a gadget if he knew it might take people's jobs, but that's not being pissed at the ethics of training the gadget.

[jagged forge]

i am not really even sure how to begin with that statement

people getting mad over their rights and livelihoods is how society works

if the ones getting trampled on are not speaking up for themselves, who will

sam altman?

lol

[ember lance]

With some caveats, I don't think you can tell someone how they should be feeling about something.

[jagged forge]

especially if you haven't had a job yourself

and one that required many years of investment

[fervent flame]

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/how-did-you-do-on-the-ai-art-turing

[sonic sentinel]

i'd like to see more "we need either jobs or money or an entirely new society-wide resource distribution system so that not everyone goes into poverty", instead of looking to deflect the problem towards a weaksauce reason.
i'm not exactly sure how our society has accomplished this but it has made talking about needing money to survive a taboo, selfish-sounding thing to the point where people are willing to acknowledge everything but "we need money to survive" as an argument for why ai shouldn't be allowed to bring them into poverty.

[ember lance]

I am sorry but that last part sounds like you think ai should be allowed to bring people into poverty?

[sonic sentinel]

well, yeah, there were some premises that were implicit in what i said, like "if training a gadget on your data is unethical, then whether the gadget is good or not is irrelevant to whether training it on your data is unethical." or "you should only feel pissed about something being unethical if that thing is unethical", but i don't see anything really normative about what i said

[sonic sentinel]

re-reading what i wrote, it doesn't sound like it

[ionic star]

it does but that's not what they mean

[ember lance]

What do they mean? I am lost.

[ionic star]

they think we need money to survive is a solid argument agaiosnt ai

but people avoid it

as if it's a bad argument

[jagged forge]

only because there are solutions to that that don't involve slowing down ai progress

[solar hawk]

Hi suremarky

[jagged forge]

hello

[ember lance]

Okay this is requiring too many braincells from me so I will sit this one out and go back to work.

[sonic sentinel]

i want to hear "we need either jobs or yada yada yada so that not everyone goes into poverty". this is the strongest reason we have for not just letting ai go on taking people's jobs. you can poke holes in the other stuff, but good luck finding a hole with this one (like what hole are you even gonna find? that ai isn't actually capable of taking people's jobs? that poverty isn't bad akchsually?? there is not much i can think of that would nullify this argument)

[solar hawk]

Talking about hole finding???

Alg top chat???

[ionic star]

by this logic you shouldn't build hospitals

hospitals is where medical malpractice happens the most

[sonic sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/hole-therapy-gif-19932453

[sonic sentinel]

building advanced hospitals without changing anything will make a shit ton of people go into poverty -> we shouldn't build advanced hospitals?
sounds like a good argument in the world where building advanced hospitals without changing anything will make a shit ton of people go into poverty

[ionic star]

not poverty

medical malpractice

it's a bad thing that happens in hospitals

[sonic sentinel]

go on building ai like this -> we will all go into poverty
go on building hospitals like this -> medical malpractice will increase

like there is a simple utilitarian argument for building hospitals here, and it's that the negatives, including through medical malpractice, outweigh the positives, like helping sick people

we can gain confidence about this fact in many ways, like by reasoning that the negative stuff occurs a lot less often than the positive stuff, or observing that people in areas with few hospitals die earlier

[ionic star]

i agree with the premise, that this argument is avoided

[sonic sentinel]

there might be changes to the hospital system you can make that are actually worth making, but even if you can't, you're probably still better off building more hospitals

same is not true for building more and more advanced ai

if you keep the system running (people expected to go into jobs, giving few unemployment checks, etc), you can be confident that the negatives of building more and more advanced ai will faaaar outweigh the positives

[ionic star]

it's a strange thought that it will happen like that

just the poverty class growing to envelop everyone without like, qualitative things happening

it doesn;t matter for the argument though

[sonic sentinel]

also i think it's worth noting that building hospitals can hit diminishing returns, but the society-wide cost of building too many hospitals is far more tolerable and less risky than bulding an ai that might end up taking a lot of people's jobs

[ionic star]

i don't believe it will happen exactly like that, but the end result could be the same

everyone is poor

but what's a different argument though?

like i know about the murderbot scenario

do people say some third thing?

it's bad but not because everyone will be poor, and not because everyone will be dead?

[sonic sentinel]

why not? it's like society-wide poverty encapsulation can't happen or can't happen quickly

i was curious so i asked claude about it

(idk why its blurry)

[ionic star]

it's a temporary thing, people react and reverse it

i guess that didn't happen in venezuela?

[sonic sentinel]

yeah it's not like CEOs and presidents have monetary incentives to avoid making you go into poverty

(technically they do)

[ionic star]

fine i was wrong to think that's a made up thing to worry about

but what about my question, what do people say instead?

[sonic sentinel]

(but like, i mean resource incentives, in general, there aren't a lot of them to have these leaders not make people go into poverty)

[sonic sentinel]

say instead of what? say instead of ai art makes art meaningless/ai isn't creative/ai isn't capable of taking your job/sourcing your data without your permission is unethical?

"it just predicts the next token" mfers when the LLM-powered agent kills their family (they're okay with it; it can't actually reason)

[ionic star]

ok so people say "it's uNeThiCal" instead of "i'll have to eat cardboard"

because the second one is about them

they don't believe everyone will eat cardboard like you do

if they did they would use that argument, it's clearly stronger

[neat lintel]

hii

whats the discussion on

[ionic star]

why do people who argue against AI talk about a dozen different things

when there's one obvious winner that's stronger than all of those

[dusky thistle]

Which is?

[ionic star]

just read it

[dusky thistle]

Losing jobs?

[ionic star]

yes

[dusky thistle]

I wouldn't say that's overly strong

[ionic star]

it's strong in the sense of being bad

[dusky thistle]

There are at least 2 very plausible directions it could go where that isn't a problem

[ionic star]

ignoring plausibility

that's my explanation too

[dusky thistle]

?

[ionic star]

people avoid this argument because they don't believe it

[dusky thistle]

I'm not sure where you're going with this now

[ionic star]

there's no discussion

[dusky thistle]

Okay then

[ionic star]

of course people also don't talk about it because they know it's true already

like that's not the kind of discussion they are used to, when you're definitely right about something bad?

there needs to be uncertainty, a high chance of being proved wrong

not the same people i mean

different reason for a different group

[sonic sentinel]

maybe

but "my small group will have to eat cardboard" is also a good argument

[ionic star]

the cynical answer is that you have to talk about concrete things, like economics

[sonic sentinel]

though it might sound selfish or as if admitting incompetence/laziness (thanks capitalism)

[ionic star]

generating paragraphs for "it's unethical" is easier

[sonic sentinel]

yeah but its a bad strategy in the long run

[ionic star]

i mean the goal is not to hold off ai in that case

just look like you;re winning the argument as the end goal

[sonic sentinel]

if your whole thing against AI is that it's unethical in X way, you better damn make sure it's actually unethical in X way.
making stuff up is usually a bad strategy for arguing politics, even if your subconscious tells you its okay cause its helping your tribe.

[ember lance]

Wait I think I understand what your argument is. You are saying we should not feel pissed off by the fact that AI was trained on our data, because while it wasn't getting good results we weren't pissed off, so that means we aren't really pissed off at AI using our data for training?

[ionic star]

yes that's what it was

you're allowed to feel however but venting is less socially acceptable than arguing

so people vent in the form of arguing that it's unethical

[ember lance]

Well I disagree with the argument for a variety of reasons.

[ionic star]

which one

[ember lance]

This one

[ionic star]

i agree with it

or idk i need to think

[sonic sentinel]

yeah

my argument was more specific than that though, it's that you should have been getting pissed off because of the ethics specifically when the AI wasn't getting results

[ember lance]

I mean a lot of people were

That's why these "I do not give zuck the permission to use my data" images started circulating around facebook and insta

[sonic sentinel]

that was about privacy concerns, no?

like facebook shared a bunch of data with another organization or something

[ember lance]

I think it was a general, don't take my data thing. Not just for privacy.

[sonic sentinel]

tangentially related but i would be more willing to accept privacy loss from training on everyone's data as an argument against ai art than the argument that it's stealing other people's work

i don't agree with it, but i at least feel like i could defend it in a debate

(i really wouldn't want to be arguing the latter though)

[ember lance]

Another thing is the intent. A lot of people may not have understood what it meant for their data being harvested. But whoever was feeding it into the model sure did. And they were expecting to be able to replicate human-like art. That seems extra unethical to me. Taking advantage of the ignorance of the people.

[ionic star]

i don't understand the part where i should feel pissed off even while it can't replicate my art

i should recognize it as a bad thing, but pissed off sounds like i should lose control and rage over something abstract

what i shouldn't do is pretend i'm against using data if i'm secretly okay with it as long as my data is safe

i'm not exactly sure how our society has accomplished this but it has made talking about needing money to survive a taboo, selfish-sounding thing to the point where people are willing to acknowledge everything but "we need money to survive" as an argument for why ai shouldn't be allowed to bring them into poverty.
anyway this is a good point
"there needs to be strict regulation, now, because me and 5 people I know are in imminent danger of becoming poor directly because so much stuff is allowed to ai companies, so maybe this will get worse forever"

if you can dismiss this argument you can dismiss every argument

very good point

[ember lance]

ahhhh I finally understand what that says after the 5th time reading it.

[sonic sentinel]

there needs to be strict regulation, now, because me and 5 people I know are in imminent danger of becoming poor directly because so much stuff is allowed to ai companies, so maybe this will get worse forever
?

is this satirizing my point? where did the "me and 5 people I know" part come from?

[ionic star]

not intentionally but yeah

like that's how i understood it, so minor details that i miss would mkae it look exactly like i'm mocking the argument

"my small group will have to eat cardboard" is also a good argument

before this discussion i was only familiar with extinction argument, like familiar enough to mock unintentionally

ai will pretend to be well behaved so we will give it more freedom, then it will create some unexpected benefit to reinforce "give freedom get money" connection, after a couple iterations of this it will kill everyone

so now there's two

[sonic sentinel]

ai's cooperation abilities can be way worse than this and still kill everyone

you can have a sequence of more and more advanced human-built ai with none of them having any real goal and still end up with everyone dying cause one of those ai built another ai without caring if it will kill everyone

[sharp mulch]

<@&268886789983436800>

[gusty socket]

gone

[cobalt solstice]

Wut happened?

[sonic sentinel]

stuff happens all the time

i wouldn't worry about it :P

[ionic star]

makes sense

the first versions of this argument involved magic explicitly

just like we discovered electromagnetism which allowed us to do wacky things that a person from 2000 years ago couldn't describe without demons and spirits

it would discover new physics that would be like that to us

now it's just normal physics

[sonic sentinel]

true, any "ai makes humans go extinct" story has to use magic at some point cause normal humans don't have access to knowledge about how to end the world, that is like detailed enough to actually use it ("hmm... engineer viruses? maybe?")

in yudkowsky's instant-death scenario, for example, the magic is how the ai manages to find proteins to engineer bacteria that kill everyone

if normal people had knowledge of how to pull all the steps of this scenario off, as like an individual, you can say bye-bye to the world

[ionic star]

yeah but it was like roadside picnic stuff, "it stacked 666 coins in this spot, and now our rifles don't work in this spot but only rifles"

ancient yudkowsky was weirder

(that's not a quote from "roadside picnic" or yudkowsky i just made it up)

[neat lintel]

"the game? heh... well lets just say... its afoot"

[mint canopy]

I like my toes too. They help keep me balanced, and that's very nice of them.

[tall minnow]

it is a giant run-on sentence

[tall minnow]

"we need money to survive"
It's not shame of poverty.
It's because this would be a Luddite argument.

not even in a derogatory way, but in a literal way

and historically we already know how the luddite movement goes

[magic lagoon]

Humans possess a level of creativity, adaptability, and practical intelligence that machines may never fully achieve. While computers and robots excel at specific tasks, they lack the qualities necessary for many types of work. Ultimately, humans will remain indispensable, either because certain jobs cannot be performed by machines or because we prefer them to be carried out by people. For instance, I wouldn’t trust a robot to fill my teeth, teach my child, or govern a country.

Although the range of tasks that AI, computers, and robots can handle is expanding, humans will always play a vital role in working alongside them. When jobs are replaced by automation, workers will adapt by training for new roles—ones that are often more engaging and fulfilling.

Answered this a long time ago on s.m ,my answer still remains the same

I read a story along these lines: Imagine a.i takes over everything, no one would have the money to buy the products because everyone would be jobless. Then the big shots (the owners of the factories) wont have any customers who purchase their products and so they go bankrupt and either die of old age or by sickness
(It's a writer who imagined the world ending like this, it's not mine)

[worthy shell]

theory of everything?

[sick parrot]

Soh Cah Tuah

[brittle socket]

Reduced to atoms, even.

[sudden ridge]

Uhm

Hello

[blazing mist]

can you stop i'm literally breaking out in a cold sweat rn

[true wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/cold-sweat-wave-geometry-dash-gif-19230968

[ember lance]

The math department should always be next to the physics department

Make it easier to collaborate between the two

[limber thunder]

my undergrad dept was like this, leading to absolutely 0 collaboration between profs but lots of banter and fun between undergrads

since we took the same calc courses and etc

my best friends are almost all physicists lol

[narrow carbon]

We don't have physics department in our college!!
It's an engineering university, but running math degree as well (with 0 percent pure math professors)

[wise pewter]

bro goes to the university of antarctica

[warm umbra]

ok

[raven umbra]

How do you convince someone to take a shower

Mathematicians must be good at this type of advice right

…right

[wise pewter]

no shower \implies stink

[limber thunder]

idk, I've never had to tell someone to take a shower

if it's a close friend I'd just go and tell them

like think of your well-being and what people'll think of you if you fuckin stink idk

I know that e.g. severe depression can lead to people not showering and not having the will to do many other basic functions like eating well, I've both seen this in friends (who weren't so close so I said nothing) and experienced it myself

but precisely as someone who's been there I can say the only solution is to convince yourself to do it

[wise pewter]

incredible advice

[vivid jetty]

yo guys this isnt really help but sort of question cuz ive asked ai and theyve struggled with this

is it possible to turn a greater than/less than expression into pure arithmetic form, like a math expression without using any absolute values, trig functions, or any type of function at all?

[coarse bridge]

hmm what do you mean by pure arithmetic form

like > and < are technically relations

[vivid jetty]

yes

y = 50
x = 30

bigger_value = (y - x) / (y - x + 1)

print(bigger_value)

[coarse bridge]

so whats an example of something else in pure arithmetic form?

[vivid jetty]

but this doesnt work

[coarse bridge]

oh like function in a programming sense

[vivid jetty]

ya

mb ye in a programming sense

[coarse bridge]

do you need to return the value itself or just like indicate it somehow

cause why can't you just be like

y = 50
x = 30
print(x>y)

[vivid jetty]

no way i got it

[coarse bridge]

or something

[vivid jetty]

nope

u cant type < or > at all basically

bigger_value = round((x + y + (x - y)) / 2)

the holy formula LFGGG

ok bye thats all i needed to find lul

[ember lance]

Does your uni offer classes like abstract/modern algebra and topology for that math degree?

[narrow carbon]

Yes. (Real analysis, algebra, topology, functional analysis etc)
But, mostly TA's teach us these subjects and they watch YouTube videos before the lecture. And during lecture if someone ask any question, they usually say "we learnt this subject in our UG, now we have forgotten the subject so plz compromise and watch YouTube videos".

This semester we took real analysis 2, and we did use epsilon definition of uniform convergence, riemann or darboux Integrals weird

[ember lance]

Oh interesting I thought it'd be an applied math kind of degree. But this looks pretty standard (except the whole YT thing). Which country is it?

[dire stump]

round(x)?

[wise pewter]

nearest integer

[vivid jetty]

na u right

im trippin balls it prolly not possible

[sonic sentinel]

humanity about to do the whole scifi trope where they discover they're not special

[sonic sentinel]

huh? a luddite argument would be "keep me in these jobs" (or technophobia if you want to use the term more generally)
"create more useless jobs"/"give me resources to not die" aren't in the luddite genre

[sonic sentinel]

For instance, I wouldn’t trust a robot to fill my teeth, teach my child, or govern a country.
ive discussed this with my friend before, and i think realistically a lot of people will end up saying they hate AI products but will buy htem anyway because they're cheaper or more convenient or poorly labelled

arguably this is already happening to some extent, e.g. ML-based recc algos have gotten a very bad rep but the percentage of people leaving social media cause of it seems negligible

also why wouldn't you trust a robot to do any of these things? especially the third, you might be really better off with an incompetent ruler with no ulterior motives than with a competent ruler that does not have your best interests in mind

(though you do have to get the "no ulterior motives" part right)

[neat lintel]

hi

idk if this fits here

(#discussion is being used a lot rn) BUT I HAD A QUESTION

i require guidance

for people that study math daily (like i am doing right now due to college) how do you avoid burning out? this happened with me many many times during high school and almost caused me to not graduate (luckily that didnt happen)

taking breaks doesnt help... i just suddenly stop wanting to study

istfg not burning out is genetic

[vivid halo]

To some extent yes

Also helps to be interested in what you are doing

[barren anchor]

yea might not be genetic, might also just be developmental, like childhood stuff

[forest brook]

maybe not imo. what makes you think it's genetic? There are also some people who really like what they do.

[fallen mango]

Anyone read but how do it know?

[barren anchor]

I think it's probably just kinda how you relate to long-term progress

if you've got like, parents continually chaperoning your long-term goal seeking, you're probably fairly immune to day to day flux altering your attitude about a goal

maybe. I dunno though, cause burn out is not the term I'd use for that necessarily

burn out is a problem in pretty much all self-directed STEM work

wow no 18

i wonder what that means

like u gotta be >18 or lesser than but definitely no certifiably 18?

[real jolt]

TOE

[neat lintel]

the biggest example that comes to my mind is bobby fischer and how he played and studied chess religiously since he was a kid

[real jolt]

imagine theres a second one

[forest brook]

there would have been a reason for him to do so? then there's magnus who wants to try something else other than chess.

[real jolt]

guys, I have a question. How can I learn math consistently? I just studied the whole limits and continuity for 2 - 3 weeks and I just forgot some things related to limits and continuity

[forest brook]

doing the problems related to them is a good revision

[blazing mist]

you mean like retaining the information?

just do a couple problems from different lessons every couple weeks

[ocean harbor]

video or level?

[torpid bluff]

Hii

[real jolt]

the level hehe

[ocean harbor]

there are toe, toe2 and toe3

two of them made by robtop and toe3 is made by someone but I forgor what their name is

https://youtu.be/m9BY8B1UYy8?si=bx4gtZ8DhECKCjG8

this

[unborn meteor]

there is no toe 26

[ocean harbor]

those are not verified ☠️

or rated

[unborn meteor]

so?

they exist

[ocean harbor]

[unborn meteor]

theres a rated toe 4

and toe 2017

big jump there

[ocean harbor]

ive seen this

[ocean harbor]

this is my favourite so far

[old pier]

Anybody here need tutoring check my dms!

[sharp mulch]

What is rurroint

[small dust]

hello

[blazing mist]

now create an equation for the cube's trajectory throughout the whole level

[bronze pelican]

Thats pretty cool

Toe3

[burnt dune]

i just saw a video on lilke youtube

a mathematicain respponding to the question "how many holes are in a straw "

i mean why is it a question like doesnt the cylinder def retracts to the circle

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_cS6S6bWX4&ab_channel=WIRED around 5:00

[true wedge]

Dude what

I'm so confused as to how it can be anything but one hole

[burnt dune]

yeah ig watch the video

[jagged forge]

well it’s questions from twitter so

[glass peak]

I remeber being annoyed when I watched that video, I swear he says something like geometry is the only area of maths where we actually prove things

Like wtf are you talking about

And I get that it was a video aimed at non-mathematicians but iirc there was a question about algebra and topology so I thought he would get into some actual more mathematical stuff and just didn’t

[true wedge]

I did

It's still confusing

[mint canopy]

He is speaking to high schoolers, where indeed hs geometry is the only part that they do proofs.

[true wedge]

We should make high schoolers do discrete math fr

I'm sure one of the other subjects can be safely removed

[worthy shell]

Can they

[limber thunder]

good luck pitching that to boomers who bitch about common core teaching kids arithmetic techniques

[rocky shuttle]

wait until there are no boomers

[glass peak]

I still think that there was a lot of the video where he oversimplified too much to the point of being actually just incorrect

[burnt dune]

i mean everyone hates math anyways

[mint canopy]

That's fair

[glass peak]

And it’s also just not even generally true that you don’t do proofs in highschool, we do some number theory in Scotland to learn proof techniques

[burnt dune]

but yeah i kinda hoped he would just go like

its homotopy equivalent to the circle which has rank 1 homology kinda

or something

in his simplified words

[glass peak]

Specifically you learn induction contradiction etc, but usually just through number theory, I imagine that A level further is similar

[burnt dune]

i kinda got weirded out when he mentioned that it can be both 2-holed and 1-holed

i honestly think trying to popularize math almost always kinda sucks the only way to do that (and proved successfully) is to talk about history

like no one has any pop math understanding of the poincare conjecture but it sure got so many ppl excited

3blue1brown is not pop math its actually real math but just lacking some details

[neat lintel]

What’s y’all’s opinion on one step equations

[old pier]

hellooo

any body need geometry/agebra/ help?

[zealous garden]

Homie can't into topology

[zealous garden]

Me!

[zealous garden]

Or homeomorphic to a punctured disc

He was so close
Pinched straw->bottle[->bowl->plate]

Instead he goes, pinched straw->bottle->"see still 1 hole"

Homies ideas are harmful

[prime thistle]

why?

why would you do that...

the current curriculum is already min maxing usefulness for the layman imo

[zealous garden]

That's the problem

[prime thistle]

how is it a problem

[zealous garden]

Math is a worthwhile pursuit of itself, and we need to treat it as such

[prime thistle]

sure but

hmmm I dunno

[zealous garden]

Children hate it because they can see you're just treating it like a tool with no features

[prime thistle]

I was trying to argue with other fields but like

[zealous garden]

It's not like art class, where we learn something cool

It's a class where we get told how we'll need this, but don't see it

[prime thistle]

then I remembered physics / biology / your native language class are essentially even more useless

to the layman (in a high school level)

[zealous garden]

Absolutely not!

They just don't actually pay attention and try to use it

[prime thistle]

how would you use biology in your day to day life?

[zealous garden]

I guarantee you that material from all 3 of those shows up in your weekly life in some trivially useful way, if you cared to apply it

[prime thistle]

I understand perhaps language class, since it's important in professional settings to be well spoken

[zealous garden]

Caring for my health is a great start

[prime thistle]

that's not something you really learn in biology, at least I didn't

[zealous garden]

Yes it is, you learn how to read a nutrition label

What all those words people complain about mean

[prime thistle]

sure but you're not taught nutrition

[zealous garden]

Among other things like how they impact your body

[zealous garden]

Irrelevant

[prime thistle]

how do you know from biology class the daily intakes of the stuff?

it'll just be like

[zealous garden]

You don't need to

[prime thistle]

"ah yes I remember the existence of this from biology class"

you absolutely do need to

that's the only important factor

[zealous garden]

But you can look it up

No its not

The effects are the important factor

[prime thistle]

you can look it up without taking biology????

[zealous garden]

What happens when I have too much / too little

How can I detect that

You can look up anything without taking a class, shit argument

[prime thistle]

yeah, that's medicine. I did not learn medicine in biology

[prime thistle]

your argument is shit

the fuck

[zealous garden]

You learned more in biology than you're admitting

[prime thistle]

I learnt a lot in biology

I just did not apply it to my every day life

I attained trivia, and knowledge I like having

but it would not change my daily life in one bit

[zealous garden]

Most things don't change your daily life one bit

[zealous garden]

.

You do not care to apply what you've learned

[prime thistle]

at a high school level I disagree

perhaps middle school biology or physics

[zealous garden]

Every time I mention applying it, you say that's another topic you weren't taught

Which is like, what applying is about

It's a nonsense retort

[prime thistle]

'-'

[ember lance]

I think I tend to agree with that statement, but I don't think you've provided viable examples. And I can't think of any atm.

[prime thistle]

^^

[zealous garden]

You apply the knowledge you were given to figure things out they didn't tell you

That's what it means

[prime thistle]

I'm not saying the classes themselves are useless

[zealous garden]

Biology is the hard one

Physics and Language are much easier

[prime thistle]

I'm saying the material is generally not useful to the layman

[zealous garden]

I can exercise great lengths of linguistic education on a daily basis with ease

[prime thistle]

the importance of those classes was not the material itself, although it is very important if you want to go to those areas that you had contact to them beforehand

[zealous garden]

And basic high school mechanics can help you figure out a lot of object manipulation tasks

[prime thistle]

it is the critical thinking that they develop

[zealous garden]

Things like properly understanding torque and work

[prime thistle]

and the culture that a language class generally develops

[zealous garden]

Understand centers of mass, how levers and fulcrums and pulleys work

[prime thistle]

I wasn't thinking of mechanics, I suppose it is a good example

[zealous garden]

Basic conservation

[prime thistle]

of something that can be useful

[zealous garden]

Biology I'll admit is harder to be specific about, but I'm sure it applies to someone who cares more about it

[prime thistle]

but I also think that intuition would've probably been enough for most people

[zealous garden]

You'd be surprised

[prime thistle]

perhaps

[zealous garden]

As someone who often has to talk people through mechanical situations

As in like, working with tools on computers/cars

[prime thistle]

The only times I apply mechanics is when I'm in a car and I'm thinking of how much I'd be fucked if a car hits me

that quadratic term be hitting extra hard

[zealous garden]

You can apply it while thinking about how hard you can take the turn

[coarse bridge]

Sure if you wanna stay a layman forever

[zealous garden]

I often think about relativity in my car

[coarse bridge]

Bro thinks about the Doppler effect

[prime thistle]

I already have a bachelors in mathematics thankfully and on my way to a masters

[zealous garden]

But I also think about traction of the tires, the torque produced in the motor, the running conditions and air-fuel

Just cus I like to

[prime thistle]

I don't drive it gives me too much anxiety to even be in the car

[zealous garden]

But once upon a time, you had to

[worthy shell]

how many speeding tickets do you have

[coarse bridge]

So what’s your argument that you shouldn’t be exposed to those high school subjects?

[zealous garden]

None

[prime thistle]

I didn't argue that????????

you completely misinterpreted what I said??????

[zealous garden]

That sounds sad

[coarse bridge]

Then what’s the corollary to saying they’re useless dawg I don’t get the point

[prime thistle]

yeah, I'm working on it

[prime thistle]

I called them even more useless in comparison to mathematics, thinking to how people call maths useless in education

[coarse bridge]

Who calls math useless

Lmao

[prime thistle]

not everything is a 'gotcha moment'

[prime thistle]

you'd be surprised by the amount of people that proudly wave that they 'never used the quadratic formula past high school'

[ember lance]

Newschannel level of distortion of reality lmao

[coarse bridge]

I mean no one serious about their future does ngl, like if you’re arguing with someone who thinks they need to use the quadratic formula while walking their dog for it to be useful then it’s already a lost cause

[zealous garden]

I know adults who don't really understand what rational numbers are

[prime thistle]

yeah

[worthy shell]

this made me think of someone chucking their dog in a parabolic shape

[zealous garden]

This

[coarse bridge]

And I don’t think this group of people who are arguing that the quadratic formula is useless for that reason are arguing that those other subjects you mentioned are useful in contrast

[worthy shell]

the point was that smth like discrete math doesnt need to be done in hs, yeah

[zealous garden]

I think it's an issue of concreteness of math for them

[prime thistle]

no, like for real. I even said somewhere that the point of the classes wasn't to learn the material but to develop critical thinking, or culture in the case of a languages class

[prime thistle]

I mean, they don't need to

[coarse bridge]

I agree some level of discrete should be taught in high school yeah

It seems like kind of a glaring omission

[upbeat shore]

I mean how many quadratic equations does a person realistically need to solve in your life

we should stop teaching math

[prime thistle]

I solve them regularly*

[zealous garden]

Eh... It's not necessary, one of them is quite successful I'd say. But knowing them, I think the reason they don't get it is because they think it would have to be useful in order to be worth actually learning

I think the issue in math education is thinking that it has to be for something

[worthy shell]

maybe
the mindset of most hsers about math is that if theyre not going into a math related job or major in uni they dont really care about it

[prime thistle]

In my experience, how I'd best describe how people tend to view numbers is as two separate things: counting and lengths, corresponding to natural numbers and real numbers respectively

[zealous garden]

Teach kids to fill with wonder

And use math to turn wonder into expectation and understanding

[zealous garden]

Though I feel like the lengths people think of are rational

Like, they think of something they can actually measure

[coarse bridge]

I mean tbf if they’re gonna do like journalism or something then they’re probably justified in thinking they won’t need it

Although yeah it’s not only for utility it should be taught for the sake of having a holistic curriculum

[zealous garden]

I guess you can argue up to constructible

[prime thistle]

I feel like peoples view of numbers is just self contradictory filled with hopeful + intuitive facts that sound plausible

and that it doesn't really make sense to try describe what a random person thinks numbers are

[coarse bridge]

Real

[prime thistle]

maybe they think all numbers are rational, but also know pi has a non-repeating decimal expansion

[zealous garden]

I think you're right by virtue of most people don't examine the concept once they're not struggling in school anymore

[rocky shuttle]

especially when viewing percentages

[prime thistle]

man with percentages I just try to do rough calculations

like 'eyeballing' math 😭

[zealous garden]

Yeah

[prime thistle]

aint no way Imma compute 70% of 36

[zealous garden]

I just do everything with like, 3 sig figs

[prime thistle]

that's like about 30 or something (damn it's closer to 25)

[zealous garden]

Why not

[coarse bridge]

One of the issues with math though is there’s kind of a high barrier to entry for like learning enough to appreciate why certain things are cool, like you can show some cool phenomena in physics or chemistry right off the bat for instance but it’s hard to get someone captivated with math unless they’re already invested or have a lot of patience

[zealous garden]

25.2

[solid snow]

I mean I think biology and physics should absolutely be taught just to have a well-informed public

[coarse bridge]

I don’t mean an issue with math as a discipline but about communication ig

[prime thistle]

cause I find that I have limited amount of space where I can still think well with regards to math daily, cause at the end of a long day I'm already cooked and if I add meaningless arithmetic to the equation I'll just cook myself sooner 💀

[coarse bridge]

Yeah also like where else would (the majority of) people even be exposed to a sufficient level in a variety of subjects to decide where their interests lie

[zealous garden]

Teach the kids set theory and topology, start by showing them how to evert a sphere

[prime thistle]

what does evert even mean

[rocky shuttle]

turn inside out

[zealous garden]

https://tenor.com/view/3d-cgi-90s-turning-a-sphere-inside-out-university-of-minnesota-gif-6040850426654610119

[prime thistle]

ah that video

[vast wraith]

“uhhh its easy i just divide by seven”

[prime thistle]

hood classic

[prime thistle]

hold up, his writing is this fire

man

[vast wraith]

whar whi where

[prime thistle]

seeing this sticker

reminded me that my functional analysis professor

absolutely despises algebra

[coarse bridge]

Yeah topology def comes to mind

[prime thistle]

she avoids it at all costs 😭

anyway

I used the fundamental theorem of isomorphisms for vector spaces in a following homework assignment, when I didn't have to because I'm evil

[coarse bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/cope-sphere-inside-out-turning-a-sphere-inside-out-outside-in-how-to-turn-a-sphere-inside-out-gif-21417574

[prime thistle]

it was something silly like proving H/M is isometrically isomorphic to Mperp when M is closed. There's basically nothing going on with my life now, so I found enjoyment in that.

[worthy shell]

smale, the last orange bender

[bronze pelican]

If that works with n bands, nothing should stop it from working with n-1 bands. So there should be a solution with 1 band

[zealous garden]

Idk what you mean

[forest glacier]

I asked chatgpt to type 64 random letters and it typed out the entire keyboard

[bronze pelican]

You know what I mean

[forest glacier]

Would this imply that chatgpt has some sort of consciousness?

It wasn’t truly random

[zealous garden]

Lmfao

[forest glacier]

I know it’s stupid but lol

Not a true consciousness but like a teeny tiny dot of some higher thinking

Sure! Here’s a sequence of 64 random letters:

QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNMQAZWSXEDCRFVTGBYHNUJMIKOLPQRSTUVWX

[bronze pelican]

What about pseudorandom number generators

They're not truly random either

[forest glacier]

That might be true

But of all 64 numbers, the whole keyboard laid out from top to bottom?

[zealous garden]

The ridges prevent corners

Idk why I said the obviously wrong version

[bronze pelican]

You can count there are at least 6 yellow bands here

Why that number?

[coarse bridge]

The model being “random” doesn’t mean that the output it’s gonna give you when you ask for something random will be random it means that like the weights themselves are determined stochastically, like the random processes along the way led it to conclude that it should give you this ordered sequence of numbers instead of randomly choosing them

Idk if that answers your question but that was my interpretation of it

[forest glacier]

Even then the odds of it choosing the entire keyboard is ridiculously low

[bronze pelican]

My claim is that the number of bands is irrelevant to the construction. So you should be able to do this construction with 1 band

[forest glacier]

Unless I misread what you said

[coarse bridge]

Nah I’m saying like somewhere along the way it probably thought you meant just any sequence of 64 letters rather than each one being randomly chosen

So it just picked like the default one

[forest glacier]

OH

But i specifically asked for it to be random

It only did it randomly the actual second time

I didn’t ask for 64 letters

[coarse bridge]

Yea but the thing is whether it interprets the question right isn’t a given

So like

There are gonna be weird things like that

Ig maybe I’m not sure what the other explanation would be that you had in mind

[forest glacier]

Still peaked my curiosity when it did that to be honest

[coarse bridge]

Oh I mean yeah it’s interesting

[forest glacier]

If I asked you for example for 64 “random” letters QWERTY and so on would probably be your most likely answer

[icy heron]

ChatGPT can't give truly random answers, it just samples randomly from the top most likely responses to your prompt. I think you can adjust a setting called temperature to force it to always give the same response

QWERTY... is just one of the most likely responses to "give me 64 random letters", there's really no higher thinking involved

[neat lintel]

anybody thr ?

[ocean harbor]

hi

[orchid cradle]

wsp

anyone tryna defeat the diophantine number theory

[thick yacht]

It's undecidable.

[orchid cradle]

i know :((

[thick yacht]

So how do you defeat it if its health bar never runs out?

[orchid cradle]

good point

uh

trap it

sun wukong's health bar never runs out. Although the only way to actually subdue him is to trap him, the same with diophantine number theory

[raven plaza]

Burn all the books

[orchid cradle]

the buddha trapped him under a mountain for 500 years, i think we can do the same

[raven plaza]

No more math problems

[orchid cradle]

math is fun 😠

[dense belfry]

what are you trapping in diophantine number theory

[ember lance]

riiiip the center where I did my teaching assistant training last week will get shut down next year because of funding cuts

the people that gave the training were super nice, I want to send them an email expressing how I am sorry to hear the news. Don't know if it's appropriate?

I only spent one week with them.

Like they'd been telling us they might shut down, but I thought it was like a 20/80 chance of shutting down, so I didn't really take it seriously at the time...

[upbeat shore]

iirc you're right

they did it for aesthetic reasons

[deep mango]

Might be more appropriate to send them a positive email thanking them for what they did and wishing them well

But either way its kind and appropriate and you should

[wooden falcon]

sun wukong 😍

[true wedge]

Based buddha

[neat lintel]

man i wish desmos had a 3D graphing tool

i wanna make a spiral 🤓

[magic sleet]

that way it would work with 0 bands

and negative bands

[magic sleet]

the odds of it being any given sequence is exactky that low(if truly random)

[past pecan]

um hi

[prime adder]

they do

[past iris]

it does have 3d graphic tool

https://www.desmos.com/3d

[neat lintel]

math aint mathing

probability feels so boring in school

i just started bayes theorem

[quasi fossil]

i asked it the same thing it just said "Sure! Here are 64 random letters:

D, H, P, B, Q, R, A, W, F, L, K, M, T, E, V, X, Z, C, J, S, Y, N, U, G, O, I, A, P, T, R, H, E, W, Z, Q, K, L, M, F, N, B, Y, V, O, S, D, C, G, I, X, A, S, T, W, P, Y, J, L, Q, U, M, Z, F, N, T"

[static loom]

that's 65 😔

1:D, 2:H, 3:P, 4:B, 5:Q, 6:R, 7:A, 8:W, 9:F, 10:L, 11:K, 12:M, 13:T, 14:E, 15:V, 16:X, 17:Z, 18:C, 19:J, 20:S, 21:Y, 22:N, 23:U, 24:G, 25:O, 26:I, 27:A, 28:P, 29:T, 30:R, 31:H, 32:E, 33:W, 34:Z, 35:Q, 36:K, 37:L, 38:M, 39:F, 40:N, 41:B, 42:Y, 43:V, 44:O, 45:S, 46:D, 47:C, 48:G, 49:I, 50:X, 51:A, 52:S, 53:T, 54:W, 55:P, 56:Y, 57:J, 58:L, 59:Q, 60:U, 61:M, 62:Z, 63:F, 64:N, 65:T

[summer hawk]

i dont gett ittt

[orchid cradle]

sun wukong 😍

[wraith grail]

hello

[summer hawk]

:D

[neat lintel]

can anyone help with boolean algebra?

[quasi fossil]

how to learn if like everything bores you and you have a bad attention span(maybe like my 8th time asking this..)

i think i should just give up

😭🙏🙏

[sharp mulch]

ADHD medication

[vernal birch]

Guys I passed my math test

[ocean harbor]

congrats!

[quasi fossil]

yeah that ain't happening till im 20

oops I pinged

[ember lance]

First conference tomorrow

Hope to get a lanyard out of it and not just a nametag

[neat lintel]

i need help with math

[sharp mulch]

#❓how-to-get-help

[blissful sonnet]

this is really cool

i put \cos\left(x^{2\sin y}+y^{2\sin x}\right)

and giot some freaky result

[visual helm]

Bro is your name real

[summer hawk]

hi guys does anyone here like math

[static loom]

whats that

[ember lance]

Probably a typo in the "a"

[near prawn]

Not to be intentionally insensitive, but I do like moths, but I hate them when they are intruding into my house.

[north topaz]

My favourite is Norse mythology

[round jolt]

Math... im tierd of finding Y.... I just dont know.... And im also tierd of finding your X..... She's gone buddy. Move on

[neat lintel]

Only linear algebra

And multivariable calculus was fun too

[sinful coral]

Me

I do math in my freetime lol.

[jaunty ibex]

Ok but did you find the cohomology of math's X tho

[languid lagoon]

not a huge fan, no

[narrow carbon]

No more finding x, now its time to proof things

[prime thistle]

Man

anyone else like really annoyed by how Lebesgue integrals are drawn?

In my opinion they completely fail to capture what the Lebesgue integral is

on the wikipedia page for Lebesgue integral they appear as:

[solid yarrow]

[prime thistle]

(the bottom)

[solid yarrow]

Im listening

[prime thistle]

this is in my opinion the worst possible visualization of the Lebesgue integral, it just looks like Riemann integration where the partitions and the points are chosen in a way such that you never go above

[solid yarrow]

Mhm

So how would you draw it?

[prime thistle]

In my opinion, Lebesgue integration visualizations should be drawn like this

with more and more rectangles on top of them

[solid yarrow]

This still looks like Riemann though

[prime thistle]

the whole point of Lebesgue integration is that the integral is calculated by monotonically increasing "rectangle" approximations

[solid yarrow]

Hm

[prime thistle]

notice that I add more rectangles on top

I never change the partition

all I do is add more rectangles

[solid yarrow]

I see where you are going

[prime thistle]

this is, in my opinion the correct way to visualize Lebesgue integration

and it makes me extremely AAA when I see the other one

Lebesgue integration is quite literally defined as monotonically increasing rectangle approximations AAAAAA

[solid yarrow]

So riemann is boxes and lebesque is throwing in more recrangles?

[prime thistle]

Riemann is like "surely if the width of each rectangle goes to 0 it doesn't matter how we approximate, and how we choose the partitions", and it leads to disaster

whilst Lebesgue is essentially "A monotonically increasing sequence has a limit, even if it may be +infinity. So if we start with 0 rectangles, and add more so that we are never above the function, it will converge (possibly to +infinity)"

[solid yarrow]

But we basically have one rectangle and then start glueing more rectangles on there?

[prime thistle]

you can do that, yeah

[solid yarrow]

Hmm

[prime thistle]

you can also start with a lower darboux

[solid yarrow]

We are currently introducing lebesque

Till now it's weird

Can't even compute shit with it yet

[prime thistle]

In my opinion

Lebesgue is much more simple conceptually than riemann

[prime thistle]

you usually don't compute things axiomatically

[solid yarrow]

Why do you think so?

Yeah

But what does it bring me

If i can't use it

That's the thingy

[prime thistle]

if we want to find the volume of a house, first throw in a bunch of 10m^3 boxes, then 5m^3, then 1m^3, etc. Each iteration you get an approximation for the volume of the house, just count each box of each type you put in. I think it makes sense to think that you can just add more and more boxes and get as close as you want to the volume

While Riemann is like "the house might be curved, however we'll still assume it to be rectangular and make finer and finer approximations"

[prime thistle]

you don't compute integrals with the riemann way either

The Lebesgue integral justifies itself by making enough things integrable for some spaces to be complete

And the Lebesgue integral is always equal to the riemann integral when it exists

[solid yarrow]

Yeah sure. But until now we have this unfinished integral that doesn't do anything till now ._.

[solid yarrow]

True

It's just more notation and math definutions and a couple of theorems. But nothing of real substance.

Atleast that's how I see it till now.

[prime thistle]

I disagree

the point of the Lebesgue integral isn't to compute things

it provides a general framework for 'creating' integration theories

[solid yarrow]

I thought that was one of the things we were trying to fix?

[prime thistle]

it allows you to define things like Lp spaces, which are complete

[solid yarrow]

Yeah sure

[prime thistle]

and the good spaces to do a lot of stuff in analysis

In calculus of variations, everything is an Lp space or a generalization

again, this space can only exist because of the Lebesgue integral

Lebesgue's framework gives you extremely powerful theorems

[solid yarrow]

So the idea was to get nice spaces?

[prime thistle]

like Fubini's theorems, dominated convergence, amongst others

[prime thistle]

not just, it also allows you to integrate over (topological) groups

[solid yarrow]

Mhm

Topo :3

[prime thistle]

in such a way that you can generalize a large part of Fourier Analysis

For locally compact (sometimes abelian) groups

Once you work with Lp spaces, and sobolev spaces you realize how important the Lebesgue integral is

Holder's inequality is like

top 3 inequalities

[solid yarrow]

Hm

Seems to envelop in quite some interesting material. Wouldn't have thought it would...

[prime thistle]

Also you can get extremely weak versions of differential equations using ideas from Lp spaces

[solid yarrow]

You make it sound like you can do everything with lebesque haha

[limber thunder]

yeah, a common approach to differential equations is to get an equivalent "integral equation" and solve that instead, then prove differentiability of the solutions

the thing is, the Lebesgue integral behaves better with respect to e.g. convergence of functions

there's results like the monotone and dominated convergence theorems

[prime thistle]

in calculus of variations a lot of the times you can only prove that a minimizer is a solution to the "integral" (weak form of the) Euler Lagrange equations,

[solid yarrow]

Yeah... the proofs were quite complex to read :(

[prime thistle]

I love the Daniell Scheme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniell_integral

[limber thunder]

oh that

yeah its a cool point of view

[prime thistle]

I find it specially cool the "duality" between

an integral theory and a measure theory

[solid yarrow]

I believe that's the way we are building the theory around lebesque

wait

no

mixed something

but i think we'll introduce the daniel integral

instead of axiomatic lebesque

[prime thistle]

Anyway

I love the approach calculus of variations has to minimizing functionals

[neat lintel]

cool

anyways

lets debate wether 0.999... = 1?

[true wedge]

Define 0.999...

[vocal vessel]

1

[true wedge]

ye

[velvet umbra]

Has anyone seen these remote AI Math jobs? If so does anyone have experience with them?

[magic sleet]

AI Math?

[velvet umbra]

So the job listings pretty much state is that you're to train and check the AI whether it's doing math correctly and such, I was hoping someone here might actually be doing that.

I think it's BS

[gusty socket]

from what i have heard, it's a gig thing, and it sounds really soulless tbqh

[limber thunder]

there's awful experiences with them all over the board, just skim through https://old.reddit.com/r/outlier_ai/

it's not too surprising since you're basically cheap labor for the companies that use these platforms

and since demand is high and likelyhood of people doing bad quality work (i.e. effectively scamming the platform out of money), usually you'll go through lengthy "onboarding" assignments that you have to nail perfectly to even get a chance of getting paid work

if you have the time and patience to deal with BS and live in a country where USD is strong compared to local currency it might be worth it

otherwise you're better off doing literally anything else lol, e.g. tutoring

[solid snow]

IME, there are companies that do offer comfy positions for a reasonable wage, provided that you know how to code in some relevant languages (C, Python, etc.). The onboarding was not bad (and was paid) and the tasks are not insanely difficult nor do they expect utter perfection. The main thing was to not BS them and provide actual input. The problem is that it’s better as a secondary source of income since the tasks can get quite involved, in a way that prevents you for working for extended sessions because of fatigue.

[velvet umbra]

What are these positions looking to do with this work?

[solid snow]

Wdym?

[velvet umbra]

I have a BS in statistics and it's pretty useless and has nowhere fyi so I see these positions and I'm skeptical

What are they trying to automate?

What people are they trying to displace with these AI?

[solid snow]

1. They’re using human review and input on the training process since the LLMs are not capable of doing this to themselves. There’s an enormous amount of data and it mostly involves just ‘grading’ the AI since this is how the learning happens; The hopes are that this can be automated to a certain extent and to guide the model towards where we want it to be in answering questions and completing tasks according to us. There are a bunch of different use cases that LLMs have been discovered to be particularly good at including:

• generating documents based on layered instructions (e.g make me a spreadsheet with x y and z properties)
• sorting and cleaning big data sets under layered instructions (e.g. sorting a list by x y z properties and requiring that entries contain some specific tag)
• Legal document review and drafting

2. This is a pretty loaded question. I don’t think it’s the explicit goal or intention of a lot of these companies to “displace” anyone but rather to develop automation for tasks.

I would judge the pay as fair for what is essentially fancy data entry.

Though it is important to be aware that work you would be doing is valuable and nontrivial enough to warrant a decent hourly wage. I say this as to warn against falling for low-paying companies that make you do this but don’t pay you nearly enough.

And do vet whichever company you’re considering applying to

[velvet umbra]

Thanks for the articulate response.

I do think AI are great tools, just don't want the barrier entry to better jobs to get even more difficult because of their existence.

[solid snow]

I’d say the biggest thing to combat the overall frenzy that comes from AI hype is to be very aware of what it’s designed to do, how it does this, and the extent of its capacities.

[old knot]

Absolutism in mathematical notations and beliefs is akin to a group-think societal hypnosis, the enforcement of which violates free speech.

[solid snow]

Are you sure it’s absolutism and not just an attempt to strive for universally understood notation

[vast wraith]

the notation isn’t even the interesting part

[old knot]

It actually is interesting

it's from notations that forms are inferred

[gusty socket]

i am in the world of forms actually

[solid snow]

When you say forms, what are you referring to here

[old knot]

for instance - you might develop a new mathematical notation, and there would either be patterns within those indications or it would lead to a concept that can be visualized

the concept arises out of inference from the notations

and it can be visualized

[gusty socket]

let $\hat S$ be a royal smay

[fathom swallow]

wifi receiver

[glass peak]

Have you replaced \hat with toads hat from Mario lmao

[gusty socket]

$\hat S$

[fathom swallow]

wifi receiver

[gusty socket]

whatever you do, don't put \usepackage{realhats} in your tex preamble

[glass peak]

Apparently I’ve hardly scratched the surface of cursed latex, holy shit

[jagged forge]

ng was mentioning he needed like 12 different hats at some point

im sure this is what he needed

[glass peak]

I can be doing so much worse, I feel so inspired

[neat lintel]

Hi hello fellow humans

How my fellow humans doing?

[ocean harbor]

bad

[neat lintel]

Hope it gets better buddy

[worthy shell]

i saw this and thought the S had a hat, then thought it was some weird error, looked up and saw it was hat command so...

[ember lance]

the first one looks like a sombrero to me

[dry copper]

I talked about topology to my seventh graders

That’s my contribution to the chat

How’s everyone else doing

[bronze pelican]

I'm sleepy

[static loom]

"hey kid this set is open, that means it's not closed right?"

[north topaz]

when intuition fails

[north topaz]

@static loom I helped the person you are helping rn with the Euclidean algorithm

a slow start at first but they did pretty well

not only understanding back-substitution but the extended Euclidean algorithm

basically I explained it as let 39 = (1, 0) and 15 = (0, 1) and blah blah blah

[static loom]

yeah they look like they have the whole thing down they just missed a couple simple mistakes

I think they're just a bit fatigued and need to sleep soon lol

[north topaz]

absolutely cause of all the learning

that needs time and sleep to solidify in their brain

[small dust]

ily

[ember lance]

Update to yesterday's post: I got my first lanyard! Hopefully the first of many.

This year has been a year of many firsts for me.

Also censoring last name is decorative

[north topaz]

oh that's your IRL name?? damn

wait can I DM you to find out where you study or nah

[bronze zodiac]

Hi

[ember lance]

Yeah lol and the censor in my last name is purely superficial since it shows somewhere else...

[ember lance]

It's the same place as the lanyard

[north topaz]

oh cool

[waxen obsidian]

unblock

i’ll prove

😭

[neat lintel]

r u blocked

[coarse bridge]

[ocean harbor]

ily2

[forest glacier]

I think your first name enough will be able to leak your identity

[marble talon]

So what are we doing here

[neat lintel]

Did anyone else in the uk get their ESAT results today? And if so what did yall get?

[solid snow]

<@&268886789983436800>

also that pay is awful

[leaden torrent]

lol yeah

if youre gonna scam people why not scam them with actually tempting numbers

[gusty socket]

lmao

[near prawn]

LMAO

Based

[north topaz]

what was the pay

[solid snow]

Can you stop spamming?

<@&268886789983436800>

[leaden torrent]

on the scale of $350/week for tech jobs lol

[north topaz]

bruh

could make more flipping burgers

,calc 350/40

[fathom swallow]

Result:

8.75

[north topaz]

what an hourly pay

[wild lantern]

Ya'll are awful scammers

A real one would bait the scammer into a course to up their scam games

[leaden torrent]

"high salary according to the market"

[north topaz]

BRUH

[leaden torrent]

what market

$30/hr beta testers too

totally nonsensical pay lol

imagine being a beta tester and making 5x as much as your manager

[solid snow]

probably a kid lol

[leaden torrent]

so uh if you wanna fall for the least tempting scam in history

go ahead i guess

lmfao

actually maybe its one of those like, scam-the-scammers schemes

[jagged forge]

dev pay to be discussed.....

[leaden torrent]

these are a thing that happens in online trading card game communities sometimes

someone will claim to have "an old collection" that they dont know the worth of and post some pics of high value cards

[north topaz]

challenge: mention tech WITHOUT suremark jumping in

also hi Matt

[leaden torrent]

theyre trying to get scammers to DM them and offer to "do them a favour" by buying it upfront for a super lowball price

and then they just steal their payment information lol

make yourself look like a perfect victim and then turn it around and scam the scammer

i almost admire the ingenuity

[jagged forge]

i mean tbh

well, idk

i was going to say it'd be fair game to buy those cards at a low price

but i'd certainly feel scummy doing that

[unborn meteor]

LOL

thats genius tbh

[jagged forge]

either way stealing payment information is worse

[leaden torrent]

its not illegal so "scammer" is probably technically speaking an incorrect term

but its definitely very scummy and if people know youre the kind of person who does this theyll probably ban you from their local scene

card players tend to be pretty protective of less knowledgeable players from stuff like this

[jagged forge]

i see

[leaden torrent]

(in part because a lot of them have personal stories of being scammed like this when they were younger lmao)

[jagged forge]

sounds like it's part of the culture fr

[leaden torrent]

(stories of kids who traded away their Tundra at the playground for THREE WHOLE KIRD APES because Tundra is "just a land")

[solid snow]

i went to one yugioh tourney with my parents and wasn’t allowed to go back lmao

[jagged forge]

what's the little rainbow thing

[gusty socket]

overpowered land -> literal garbage! good trade

[leaden torrent]

at the bottom of the tundra?

[jagged forge]

any card that has even 1 square mm of rainbow = it must be valuable

[jagged forge]

yeah

[leaden torrent]

its just a watermark

basically an anti-counterfeit measure

theyre hard to fake with conventional printers

[jagged forge]

yeah, the ape doesn't have it

[leaden torrent]

yeah because its old as shit lmao

from the 90s

[jagged forge]

oh

[leaden torrent]

literally just cheap cardboard

[jagged forge]

so even the shit cards have watermarks i guess nowadays?

[leaden torrent]

this is what old tundras looked like back in the day

yeah

[jagged forge]

aw

[leaden torrent]

they refined the printing process a lot

back when these cards were printed they couldnt even print foil cards yet

they needed to steal that technology from the pokemon TCG

(im not making that up, they partnered with the pokemon TCG to handle international distribution and foils started appearing in packs after that)

(seems pretty clear that exchanging this technology was part of the deal)

this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50b5x1GM-jQ discusses the history, i dont think it talks about the watermark very much but its still an interesting watch

[hybrid quest]

I've been tempted recently to collect pokerman cards

But nah

[north topaz]

Pokemon?

[hybrid quest]

Yes, I want to collect them all like ash

[pulsar pagoda]

there is also the whole black lotus situation

https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/8989/magic-unlimited-edition-black-lotus?Language=English

[hybrid quest]

....No, I must resist the trading cards

[hybrid quest]

Wow the price!

[pulsar pagoda]

https://www.cgccards.com/news/article/12859/

[hybrid quest]

Soneone bought a pokemon card for 5 million

Source, trust me

[pulsar pagoda]

like this black lotus in question is an alpha

which is older than the 2ed I think

[hybrid quest]

Do you play/collect magic?

[pulsar pagoda]

no

[hybrid quest]

I watched some tuber collect one card fir each pokemon

And I want to do that but, eff spending the money. So I'm thinking of how I can simulate the experience

[pulsar pagoda]

tabletop simulator

thats how I play it sometimes

[hybrid quest]

No like even more simple, there are around 1000 mons. I will simulate picking random numbers until I pick all 1000

With some self imposed rules when dupes are drawn

This is in essence the process I am interested in that would take place collecting the cards

[gusty socket]

they should reprint tundra

and while they're at it, print more sol rings

[finite wave]

[dull gale]

hello

[balmy bolt]

Hello bro, what's up?

[scarlet lark]

Ladies and Gentlemen.

I'm a big fan of stories in mathematics.

And oh BOY!

"Music written for a planned 3Blue1Brown series about the life story of Évariste Galois."

:calmk: Can't wait honestly

[neat lintel]

oooo

i can't wait to explore galios theory more

find all the automorphisms of the splitting field of this polynomial aaaaaaa

hello, where can I change my roles ?

[bronze pelican]

Ooh

[ember lance]

Rip it seems I slept through something interesting finally happening in Discussion 2

[ember lance]

I already doxxed myself several times here, it just felt wrong posting a picture of my last name.

Since one would need to be very careful about what they talk to not dox themselves, I decided not to even try a long time ago

Also if I anger some crazy nut and they want to get at me, they'll probably go against the more famous mathematician I share name with first

[outer socket]

@gusty socket hey im trying to reach out for clarification, can i dm you?

[gusty socket]

hey. you can, but i won’t respond for a few hours. sorry.

[outer socket]

no worries, will dm later

[ember lance]

happy thanksgiving to those that celebrate

[noble roost]

what is that calculus method where we differentiate numerator and denominator of fraction individually

[deep mango]

l'hospitals rule

[noble roost]

is it really called hospital

[deep mango]

well

its french

its pronounced "loh pee tall"

[ember lance]

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-a-random-French-mathematician-named-The-Hospital-LHopital-Isnt-that-a-strange-last-name

[noble roost]

quora is filled with stupid questions and stupid answers

i never trust

[ember lance]

i see, vs trusting random people in discord

[thick yacht]

But the modern French are just mispronouncing it and the s should be there.

[noble roost]

because it's biased

others can tell if you
are wrong

nigi quora wants you to buy membership

[elder latch]

Hi do you speak French

[thick yacht]

No, but I have looked at a book on Old French.

[blazing mist]

je parle en francais

[raven plaza]

Je spreche le french

[vocal vessel]

Un petit d'un petit
S'étonne aux Halles

[frosty cradle]

Question for you discord Mathies; what is the proof for the hidden perspective of any sphere. Or how would you go about proving the hidden conic region of a sphere within the symbolic domain of math???

[sonic sentinel]

WMTC today was ass bruh

we did nothing for like five hours and then they had us go to the theater

we got gift tote bags with some goodies and then i lost mine

then my classmate offered me his tote bag cause he only wanted one of the items inside

so i was like tysm and i hug him and everything

and i lost it

[frosty moat]

damn rough day huh

[past pecan]

i hope everyone remembers me

[sonic sentinel]

oh yeah they also suddenly cancelled the cultural night for local students

why can't i meet some math people without travelling to another country omfg 😭

[sonic sentinel]

despite qatar foundation, like the governmental organization emailing our school saying we could join the cultural night :(

[pale gazelle]

what music should i listen to?

[sharp mulch]

Whatever music you like

[elder latch]

Ok parfait la prochaine fois j’peux te ping lorsque j’ai des questionss

[deep mango]

I have some recs. Do you want something relaxing, intense, sad, ...

Spotify or youtube?

[celest geyser]

any good video games on sale

[deep mango]

the witness is incredible

[celest geyser]

already played through it

[deep mango]

lets see

hollow knight is perfect

[celest geyser]

played through it

[deep mango]

patricks parabox is really good

[celest geyser]

on the list. demo looks ok

is it on sale

[deep mango]

wow celeste is super cheap

[deep mango]

yeah 40%

[deep mango]

the game gets extremely good, it definitely starts off slow but its necessary

fascinating game

opus magnum is really good

[celest geyser]

already have it

[deep mango]

if you havent played the portal games, must plays

slay the spire is incredible

recursed is an interesting one. similar to parabox. only 2 bucks

i cant even come close to beating recursed

its so hard

[gusty socket]

i want to buy nine sols

[deep mango]

terraria will always be perfect and amazing

vvvvvv super fun platformer

outer wilds is beloved and on sale

subnautica is lovely and 67% off

inscyption is amazing

keep talking and nobody explodes is a super fun game with friends

FTL faster than light is an incredble roguelite with great music

ok thats it for me for now

[celest geyser]

have like basically all of them unfortunately

[deep mango]

well you have good taste in games then!

i'll keep thinking if there's similar stuff

i love the game Nuclear Throne

if you like The Witness, check out Taiji, that game is super similar design wise

oh nuclear throne not on sale

Minit is a cool game

Rain World is amazing but filtered me

[jagged oriole]

This game stole so many hours of my life

[deep mango]

noita is an amazing game

[deep mango]

every time i go back to it i remember why i gave up

[slim root]

rain world

actually idk if its on sale i didnt read the last two words

[celest geyser]

brother

pfp

[celest geyser]

have that one unfortunately