serious-discussion

[vagrant python]

Not space time, the other one

[unborn meteor]

whats your dimension numbering scheme

[vagrant python]

I am refering to the dimension of space.

[shadow flax]

Space, the final frontier

[vagrant python]

https://tenor.com/view/teseractor-120fps-60fps-loop-gif-21696206

this

[unborn meteor]

@static loom dimension numbering schema

[unborn meteor]

tessaract is just a simulation of what it would be

[static loom]

schema? CSS? Front end web dev? count me out!

[unborn meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/furina-embed-fail-gif-10775077421402251353

[unborn meteor]

go read about json schemas

idk what they are but they sound horrifying

[static loom]

HELL.. NO!!

[vagrant python]

But you have a good understanding of what we know of the 4th dimension, yes?

hold up

[unborn meteor]

@static loom does it exist tho

[static loom]

json does exist unfortunately 😔

[unborn meteor]

i'm not sure we know whether a 4th spatial dimension exists

[static loom]

oh wait you're talking about the other thing

ok tbh json isn't that bad and maps on relatively nicely to python data types

[unborn meteor]

yeah

[unborn meteor]

@vagrant python

[jagged forge]

json has like
4 data types innit

string number boolean and moar json

oh and arrays

[unborn meteor]

there isn't an irl 4th dimension

[unborn meteor]

and undefined

[jagged forge]

chrew

[static loom]

there is a irl 2.5th dimension

[unborn meteor]

for some reason hashmaps in js (and json) are called objects

[vagrant python]

sorry, i might have to leave soon

mathimatically, it does, right?

[ember lance]

back to the 4th dimension?

[unborn meteor]

like they don't even TRY to pretend objects aren't hashmaps with an ego

[jagged forge]

python objects are pretty much fancy hashmaps

and lua tables are combined hashmaps + arrays

[unborn meteor]

not in real life as far as we know

[unborn meteor]

yeah

and other langs too

but like

c'mon at least TRY

[jagged forge]

yea it's just how dynamic languages work often

well i mean

[unborn meteor]

the c++ compiler uses hashmaps for them i bet

[jagged forge]

javascript objects sort of have extra stuff

i forget what they're called, but it's similar to lua

they both do prototype based OOP

[unborn meteor]

yeah

prototypes are annoying

[jagged forge]

yes

yes they are

[vagrant python]

alright

i am back btw

that makes sence

[visual breach]

Why is it?

[zealous garden]

Peace out

[static loom]

War in

[ember lance]

In today's teaching assistant training, I learned that the sandwich method of giving feedback is outdated. Which is crazy since I learned it only a few years ago.

The new method starts pretty similar, but instead of the last "bun" we have "next steps to take".

"Strengths" -> idk i forgot -> "next steps to take"

[static loom]

clearly if they used the bun method you would have remembered the middle step

[ember lance]

tbh you have a point there. The bun/sandwich method is easy to remember. Anyways I wrote it down in a post-it so hopefully I can find it for the next time I need to use it.

Until I find it, anyone that asks for my feedback will get lots of praise, followed by what next steps they should take

ah I should've posted this in math pedagogy mb

[quiet geode]

how do you stop hating yourself for not figuring things out independently and how do you stop loving yourself for figuring things out indepedently

[delicate tendon]

You dont

No further comments

[quiet geode]

yeah pushes you down the nihilistic well

[delicate tendon]

lmaoo

Drink massive amounts of copium

[quiet geode]

Man

This isnt completely black and white for me

My brain has subconsciously created boundaries for me to be comfortable but it did forget to make it inaccessible

[delicate tendon]

I think its important to recognize why you have these problems of why you cannot figure it out independently perhaps

I have a habit of questioning every step along the way because your proof should also convince you too

[quiet geode]

yeah right, thats exactly what improvement is essentially

[delicate tendon]

And eventually if I feel comfortable, then its planted in my brain

literally

[quiet geode]

i mean i am ok with what transpired in this case

i could see the thing coming but not in its full glory

and thats by nature

[delicate tendon]

No clue what that means but sure thing

[quiet geode]

Its like i had an intuition that things would fall in a certain way it is just that it wasnt as exact as the formalised form

and thats just down to the work i put in

to get it filtered perfectly

[delicate tendon]

So I guess the important thing especially when trying to get this intuition right is also being able to admit that maybe you did something wrong and search up the solution after your attempt anyway; that is one way

[quiet geode]

i just want me to be communicatively unambiguous enough

[delicate tendon]

I personally think being able to relay communication clearly and concisely of a proof comes with time or you can also read a philosophical logic book

[quiet geode]

right

[delicate tendon]

What year are you?

[quiet geode]

No

[delicate tendon]

Oh?

[quiet geode]

im studying independently as a passtime

im old

sort of

[delicate tendon]

Well just try to have fun then, no need to cram it all in one go

If its hard, take some time away and try again later

I thought this was for a class

[quiet geode]

its just the competitive genes taking over i guess, cant help it sometimes yknow

[delicate tendon]

who are you competing with tho lol, like it shouldnt be a competition to begin with just go at your own pace and have fun with math otherwise whats the point

[quiet geode]

im competiting with myseld

to improve

and regain

[delicate tendon]

my massive copium meter is going bonkers

its important to take a step back and just have fun with the content otherwise you will never put the effort into understanding and learning and actually applying/remembering the content you just did

like if i did cram everything i learned, oh god i would never know how to apply to other areas

[quiet geode]

i dont think its cramming

like i can think very clearly

but only very narrowly at any given time

its like mood swings

my latest obsession is how are the defintions making sure what we are studying is exhaustive

i hate myself for this

it just blurs my vision all the time and stops me from being more creative

[delicate tendon]

like are you questioning the conciseness and quality of definitions?

[quiet geode]

yes

maybe this is gotta do with the content im playing with but yeah im also overlooking some details i dont expect my ass to overlook

[delicate tendon]

I dont think you will get far by doing that because if anything just read the papers associated with it lol and maybe if you can understand that, then you can question whether or not it is truly exhaustive. It usually a waste of time, but its more example to look at examples associated with the definition rather than the quality

[quiet geode]

well waste of time is subjective isnt it

[delicate tendon]

Yeah thats true

Something to consider is that with every definition and theorem, you should be able to recite it and also give an example of suck

If you can do that, that is generally a good direction to move forward

There is not a huge need to look into the background of subjects until you gotten to a point of mastery to being able to question such

[quiet geode]

its like i do what i do in this field because i love doing it and truly dont care if it follows a certain type of adjective unless im able to perform a body of work that grabs adjectives more dynamically

[quiet geode]

Yeah correct

Ability to ask questions

and their quality

ok i should reframe my original question

[quiet geode]

how do i make myself THINK of questions independent of my state of mind

this is starting to sound like how do you enjoy music youre not in the mood of listening to but it is also something that youd love to have only if you were in a different mood

[quiet geode]

is this sentiment something that arises due to not being totally bought in into the idea of the subject youre studying (like i need to focus harder or something like that)

[heavy sinew]

yo

[sharp nest]

hi

[heavy sinew]

saitama hey

you undrestoud what i said about space ship?

[north topaz]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Intelligent_design#Intelligent_alternatives

in short there's no proof that God exists

you can't use the scientific method to test if a God exists or not

[sharp nest]

yeah but like

[heavy sinew]

what about the proof i just sID

[sharp nest]

comparing "finding a spaceship in a forest" to our formation is a far stretch

[north topaz]

so like it's impossible to debunk that God doesn't exist

[sharp nest]

we were made from evolution

[coarse bridge]

How does that argument hold any weight when you can’t determine what the space of outcomes is to begin with

[north topaz]

you could point to anything and say that's proof

[north topaz]

I'm talking about what you said, yes

[heavy sinew]

CAN a space ship be made with evolution

[unborn meteor]

babel fish argument moment

[sharp nest]

..

[unborn meteor]

yes

[north topaz]

now you don't understand evolution

or the scientific method great

you're just damn uneducated

[heavy sinew]

bro,convinse me

[coarse bridge]

Who created god blows this argument out of the water

[north topaz]

why should I have to convince you evolution is real

[sharp nest]

fax

@heavy sinew

if u say god exists

[north topaz]

when it's been an accepted scientific theory for hundreds of years

[sharp nest]

then who made god

[coarse bridge]

If we had to be intelligently designed how can something capable of intelligently designing us be natural

[north topaz]

and you can search everything you don't know on Google

[coarse bridge]

Unless you’re just like being hypocritical with the reasoning

Which is usually the case

[unborn meteor]

i personally am atheist but if someone shows me a convincing peer reviewed study saying that god exists then sure

[heavy sinew]

god is out of logic, trying to undrestand who made it,how it look... is like a cat trying to undrestabd quantum phisics

[coarse bridge]

I mean yeah like I’m not gonna claim it’s possible to prove god doesn’t exist but I’m also not gonna claim that it’s possible to prove I won’t die from the next sip of water I take

Like this is a question of empirics

[north topaz]

yeah so it's impossible to know where God comes from, I agree

[heavy sinew]

we are juste unable to prove it becuse we are dumb

[sharp nest]

so basically ur answer is you dont know?

[heavy sinew]

very dumb

[heavy sinew]

yes

[sharp nest]

but u just said ur gonna prove god exists

[heavy sinew]

i poved that he exit

[coarse bridge]

“I don’t know therefore it’s true”

[sharp nest]

what? spaceship?

[north topaz]

I personally believe actually that the God in the heavens is a really evolved human

[heavy sinew]

u asked who created it and i said i dont knoe

[north topaz]

someone who has lived through millions of lifetimes if not billions

[unborn meteor]

yeah this is legit

legit belief

[north topaz]

and ascended to a world beyond Earth

that is what some sects of Christianity and other religions believe

[heavy sinew]

that's what you missed,he is not mesured with time

he didnt made up at some point

and hewill not end

[coarse bridge]

Damn, that sounds… unlikely…

[unborn meteor]

and now this is a religious argument yay

[sharp nest]

yeah i also like to believe god is from like a type 6 or 7 civilization

[heavy sinew]

he made time

[coarse bridge]

Frfr

[quiet geode]

~~the sheer disrespect to push up my convo for this shiet~

[north topaz]

but then you're using faith or imagination to conclude that

[heavy sinew]

no bro he is out what anyone can even imagine

[north topaz]

what you say cannot be concluded by with reason or logic alone

[heavy sinew]

no

[unborn meteor]

you're imagining him right now

[heavy sinew]

that's logic

[north topaz]

jesus

[mint prairie]

Can you help me with something

[north topaz]

what

[mint prairie]

Check DMs

[sharp nest]

@heavy sinew do u have any other proofs for why god exists apart from the spaceship in forest example

[heavy sinew]

that was a very strong one so i didnt search more

because it seem theonly response

of what i said

[coarse bridge]

Now I know why they find it necessary to teach people modus ponens

[heavy sinew]

convinsed?

and you south?

[sharp nest]

almost

but i want more proofs

[unborn meteor]

i'm atheist and i haven't been smited out of the skye yet so god might just not care tbh

[heavy sinew]

leme shearch for you

[coarse bridge]

LMAO I was just about to suggest the skye thing

[unborn meteor]

ultimate sniped

[sharp nest]

maybe god laws only apply to those who believe in him i guess

or else every religion's god would start bullying us

[gusty socket]

lol

[heavy sinew]

do you thing univers has been made by it selfe?

[quiet geode]

what is wifi receiver

[north topaz]

@mint prairie !help

!help

[gusty socket]

that’s me

[quasi jetty]

To ask for mathematics help on this server, please open your own help channel or help thread. See #❓how-to-get-help for instructions.

[coarse bridge]

I mean you think god has been made by himself

[heavy sinew]

its phisicly impossible

[sharp nest]

yea probably, cuz of quantum fluctuations

[coarse bridge]

How is god making himself physically possible

[quiet geode]

is there a cyberhole where i can store all my wifi signals?

[sharp nest]

you mentioned quantum mechanics - so u would know that its possible right

[gusty socket]

you have to be 13 years old or older to use discord

[north topaz]

he's 20 btw

well not everyone acts their age but....

[sharp nest]

hey hes 20

[north topaz]

that's why I had to ask

[heavy sinew]

no bro ,only in this conversations i cleard that 3 times,god didnt made up,time doesent apply on him,he mde time.he just existed and exist and will exist

[gusty socket]

yeah and i’m benedict cumberpatch

[heavy sinew]

i am acting old or young?

[sharp nest]

old

[heavy sinew]

bro,tnx

[coarse bridge]

Bro why is there this like fundamental disconnect whenever people argue this

like they say “do you think we came out of nowhere bro? LOL” and then the next word out of their mouth is that god needs no creator

[heavy sinew]

btw i am 19(close to 20)

[sharp nest]

wow thats nice. you know all this at 19

[coarse bridge]

Fuck that’s pretty convincing man

[dense cairn]

@heavy sinew bro its just wasted conversation we have freedom to choose which religion we follow but we have must become human its matter not this religion or that

[quiet geode]

youre acting

[sharp nest]

@heavy sinew so u were saying that humans coming into existence as a coincidence is dumb. but ur kind of saying god also came into existence as a coincidence

[heavy sinew]

tnx bro , that's because it doesent sound logic to sya od exist with proff so i searched about argumments and coarguments...

[sharp nest]

see

[gusty socket]

i am eternal

[quiet geode]

Fix my cpu

[coarse bridge]

do you thing univers has been made by it selfe?
its phisicly impossible

I mean you think god has been made by himself

no bro ,god didnt made up,time doesent apply on him,he mde time.he just existed and exist and will exist

[north topaz]

https://aeon.co/essays/i-now-think-a-heretical-form-of-christianity-might-be-true

btw you might be interested in reading this

explaining how God might be a thing of human society, when we worshipped chiefs and people more powerful than us

[gusty socket]

oh it’s discussion 2

[heavy sinew]

i said 4 time now in this conversations he didnt made up,he is out time .he made time!

[gusty socket]

okay

i get it now

[north topaz]

https://aeon.co/essays/how-monotheists-modelled-god-on-a-harem-keeping-alpha-male

oh woops I had this other one in mind

both are good reading I believe

[sharp nest]

what ur saying doesnt make sense. what exactly do u mean he is out of time? where is he? 4th dimension? sorry im not understanding

[heavy sinew]

bro that look boring,say what it has briefly pls

[gusty socket]

this chat is way more fun than discussion tbh

[coarse bridge]

Heaven and hell are subspaces

[north topaz]

literally just told you

just that I can't prove that God being an eternal timeless being is wrong

you also can't prove me wrong

[heavy sinew]

no not 4 th dimention, and you cant undrestand,i also dont undrestand,because we are dumb.trying to undrestand how somthing out time is like a cat trying to undrestad philosophy class.in islam god told us literally to not thing about this too mutch because we will not undrestand

[north topaz]

we're talking about something that is impossible for our puny human minds to understand, after all

[heavy sinew]

wait till i read what you said

saitama

youre trying to undrestand somthing that out of logic and time

you simply cant

[north topaz]

you said earlier that you know God exists using logic

[heavy sinew]

brooooo

i said that i can prove it

[north topaz]

I asked if you instead meant that God exists through faith and imagination

you said no

[coarse bridge]

What is a proof

[north topaz]

.

[heavy sinew]

i proved it earlier

[sharp nest]

@heavy sinew what if i say theres a heavenly cat sitting at the centre of our earth controlling the whole universe

i mean we cant prove it doesnt exist yet

so maybe its real?

its out of our comprehension so

[north topaz]

okay so no human being can understand God cause we're all dumb

[sharp nest]

maybe

[north topaz]

but somehow you can?

[uncut beacon]

Hello discussion 2

[heavy sinew]

yes

[uncut beacon]

God is maths simple as that

[heavy sinew]

can only prove that he exist

[gusty socket]

hello hollyhock

[north topaz]

wow I am extra convinced that God doesn't exist now

thanks

[heavy sinew]

bro

why

[north topaz]

thanks for what you said

[sharp nest]

but in the middle of ur proof u jsut say we are all too dumb and thats the end of it

[coarse bridge]

Based anti constructivist

[delicate tendon]

wait were still talking about this 💀

[coarse bridge]

We can’t describe him but only prove he exists

[sharp nest]

its better than watching anime

[delicate tendon]

its been like 15 minutes, i literally had a whole convo with someone irl

[heavy sinew]

yeah that's the point

[quiet geode]

i dont see Mike Tyson smacking the hell out of Jake Paul in here

[uncut beacon]

Trying to prove the existence is god is like me saying there was something before the big bang. Is it possible? Yes, is it's also not possible. Yes? So it's not really worth arguing over

[north topaz]

sounds a lot like faith and imagination to me..........

[uncut beacon]

Of*

[gusty socket]

i am like mike tyson in the sense that i’m washed

[north topaz]

if you can't use reason cause no human being can describe God

[heavy sinew]

what did you said earlier? as a coargument?

[north topaz]

I'm not attacking faith and imagination btw

[sharp nest]

that was something different. my argument is above, scroll up

[quiet geode]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-the-boys-homelander-homelander-eyes-homelander-laser-eyes-gif-2010979958537085563

[north topaz]

those are perfectly fine ways of understanding the world

[quiet geode]

yeah thanks

[north topaz]

my point is that you can't use reason alone to 'prove' God exists

you need some other methods of thinking about the world

like culture

which is subjective of course

[uncut beacon]

Also if god is real he very clearly made this universe the way it is and gave us maths and science as a key into the heavens as u might put it

[gusty socket]

homander

[sharp nest]

afterall we cant prove most things for sure. we can only hypothesise and observe

[north topaz]

anthropologists do this for a living and I respect them

[sharp nest]

but in this case we cant observe

[north topaz]

exactly

[heavy sinew]

bro i literraly proved it using the space ship

[north topaz]

we can't use empiricism

[uncut beacon]

We literally have maths problems that are to hard to solve right now I think that's sorta proof enough that you can't really get closer to god then maths

[heavy sinew]

yes

[north topaz]

that's a major part of reason excluded

[zinc glen]

teleological argument is not "proof" per se

[north topaz]

also I've studied some philosophy

[sharp nest]

scroll up pls

[sharp nest]

yoo can we be friends

[heavy sinew]

okey wait lil bro

[sharp nest]

whenever i talk about philosophy ppl tell me to shut up

[uncut beacon]

Philosophy is extremely important idk why people do that

Religion aswell

[zinc glen]

Both are important, both can be equally unwelcome to talk about. It's about time and place.

[heavy sinew]

that?

[uncut beacon]

I've found alot of high level physicists sorta develop into agnostic philosophers

[sharp nest]

no, hold on

[north topaz]

there's also like rationalism but you know.....

[uncut beacon]

That's very true yes

[sharp nest]

this

pls clear my doubt

[heavy sinew]

bro are you convinsed

now?

[north topaz]

you're anti-convincing me

[gusty socket]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-gif-26450094

[heavy sinew]

exacly

south is the wall

[uncut beacon]

Maths can't explain god but maybe one day it can fill in all the gaps around the idea of god thus giving us the outline

[zinc glen]

Respectfully, @heavy sinew, you really shouldn't expect to convince people about fundamental tenets of your belief system through a 15 min discord conversation

[sharp nest]

nah, humans wont last that long

[uncut beacon]

Yeah

[sharp nest]

besides we cant fit that much into our brains

[uncut beacon]

Well who says it'll be us

Maths is a universal constant it seems

[sharp nest]

oh yea then true

maybe there already exists someone who knows

[uncut beacon]

Plus I still like to believe that after death there's something more then this in a universal and scientific sense

[heavy sinew]

hmmm

[uncut beacon]

The quantum is just to confusing for me not to question

[sharp nest]

maybe u just respawn with ur memories erased

[heavy sinew]

that's a good one

[sharp nest]

theres infinite possibilities

[uncut beacon]

Or maybe it's just a repeat

[sharp nest]

that too. its depressing

that could explain deja vu

[uncut beacon]

Like the universe expands and matter sorta morphs back into this singularity state causing the infinite to be refilled

[heavy sinew]

idk man you got me here

i'l search and gve you a response

[uncut beacon]

God isn't really less depressing

[heavy sinew]

after some 20min

[uncut beacon]

Look at our current state of the world and then think about a god that can actually see what's going on

[sharp nest]

ok

[uncut beacon]

Ether there's a larger reason or he kinda suxks

Idk I like talking about these things the same way doing non ending calculations is interesting

[heavy sinew]

why?

[uncut beacon]

Because just maybe one day something will click and you'll realize nobody came to that conclusion

[plain island]

off topic but how did you get through Bojack without getting terminally depressed

[sharp nest]

whats bojack

[uncut beacon]

Jokes on you I was already terminally depressed!

[solar fiber]

wdym? Bojack is pretty fking good

[plain island]

Bojack Horseman, it's a tv show that her pfp is from

[uncut beacon]

BoJack horseman

And my banner!

[plain island]

yeah it's also pretty fking depressing lol (but I'm only on s2 or 3(

[plain island]

I like that banner

[gusty socket]

h

[plain island]

ok sorry I didn't mean to derail

[uncut beacon]

Also I'm amazed that mathematics will dismiss the idea of god then emeditly talk about something like the Collatz conjecture

[uncut beacon]

Glad!

Let me find the artist hold on

[uncut beacon]

Mathematicians*

To many fucking letters

https://www.tumblr.com/raguma1002?source=share

Artist

[plain island]

m11ns

[gusty socket]

publishing my proof of god to vixra ❤️

[plain island]

I'm curious how these are connected in your mind

[uncut beacon]

Like the fact basically every number comes back to that repeating the same 3 pattern and we just don't know why or what or how

Or what even are prime numbers

Why do they exist

[gusty socket]

mathematicians don’t just assume that that happens

[uncut beacon]

Well yes

We have proof

[sharp mulch]

Well we don’t know if this is true

[plain island]

well we prove it from axioms

[gusty socket]

no we don’t

[uncut beacon]

Not of everything but a pretty good proof

So far

For like what is it

[sharp mulch]

Ring theory

[plain island]

that's nothing compared to infinity, you should understand that :)

[zinc glen]

Do you think a 20 min conversation held primarily in incomplete thoughts and sentences over a message board that rapidly moves from topic to topic would be enough to convince you of atheism? Polytheism? Deism?

You seem to view your beliefs as so self-evident that a 4-sentence, loosely worded example is enough to convince other people of their truth, but it really isn't. Everyone else here holds a unique set of beliefs born from their upbringing, life experiences, and their own thought on the matter. To change that is not a trivial undertaking, and quite frankly it seems arrogant to assume that it would be.

[uncut beacon]

30 to the 10 or something

[uncut beacon]

Well I think that cones back to infinity

In the way some infinites are smaller

Like our universe expanding implies a something else

But also we don't really have any way to find that out

[mild lance]

Was maths invented or discovered

[jaunty ibex]

@coarse bridge I'm gonna send this to bf to annoy the shit out of him

[uncut beacon]

Did we discover food

[heavy sinew]

i am not trying to convinse them(i m sure even if i was right they wont accept it) but trying to know their proofs and arguments ,and their point of vue.got it?

[uncut beacon]

Why would that be a annoying statement

[plain island]

I would argue primarily invented as a model to explain our world

[jaunty ibex]

Keyword: Collatz

[mild lance]

Is the 2 + 2 = 5 prof actually Legit or just gimmickry

[uncut beacon]

LMAO

[mild lance]

One thing maths explained everyone that they will die virgin

[plain island]

usually gimmicky or an exercise in spotting errors, unless those symbols mean something unusual

[heavy sinew]

like south,i am sure he didnt see anything wrong in my proofs so he didnt respond(i would do the same)

[uncut beacon]

Is he not a respected mathematician?

[heavy sinew]

got it LG?

[plain island]

the cc is notorious for amateur mathematicians attempting to prove it bc it's so simple and "obviously true"

[mild lance]

Dawg does doing maths pay anything or.is it useless

[zinc glen]

Except you keep framing it as "they won't accept my argument" and not "which part of my argument is unconvincing".

And I wouldn't be so convinced that no one sees anything wrong with your "proof". I imagine one could find several responses under the category "rebuttals of the teleological argument".

[uncut beacon]

Which makes it even more interesting

Because it proves that it's to complicated for current mathematics

Like we can't solve it right now

[plain island]

until you get the fifth obviously wrong proof posted in #discussion in a day

[uncut beacon]

Oh I mean yeah that's obviously extremely annoying

Like I sorta mean today the thing that made me join this discord a couple hours ago

[mild lance]

Any male mathematician who slays ?

[heavy sinew]

ebuttals of the teleological argument i didnt undrestand this sentesne(i am not english speaker)

pls explan

explain

[heavy sinew]

eineshtayn

[mild lance]

He married cousins

[heavy sinew]

oh my bad

@zinc glen ??

[zinc glen]

The spaceship example you gave is an example of an argument for the existence of God called the teleological argument, (generally) arguing from the perceived complexity of the universe to the existence of God. This argument is quite old, and plenty of people have argued against it, for various reasons.
Here is the SEP page discussing some versions of the argument along with some objections: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/

[heavy sinew]

ok bro,tnx

[heavy sinew]

yo saitama If the first cause is necessary and eternal, it cannot be a contingent being (i.e., a being that depends on something else for its existence). Thus, this first cause must be unique (because there can only be one uncaused cause), and it must be all-powerful and timeless, which fits the description of God.

[heavy sinew]

i cant read that! its too tall

[zinc glen]

Be careful not to mix your Aquinas with your Hume 😁

[heavy sinew]

and what that hell is aquinas and hume

is it supposed to be an arab word?

[zinc glen]

The wording you used in the response is very reminiscent of a medieval Catholic philosopher named Thomas Aquinas

[heavy sinew]

i dont know that

i am muslim

not catholiq

oe idk

are you religious or no by the way

[zinc glen]

fair enough, but Aquinas had what he called the "5 ways" which he believed to be proofs for the existence of God
The language the above comment was worded in seemed very Aquinas-like

[zinc glen]

very much not

[heavy sinew]

bro my arguments are pure mine

i ddnt google it

[heavy sinew]

why

[unborn meteor]

this is still going on?

insane

[heavy sinew]

yeah

i didnt know there is a lot of not religious people btw

[zinc glen]

Well, the argument you have given, while it may be yours in its realization, is not new in its form
Again, it really falls under a broader class of teleological arguments

[zinc glen]

There are a lot of answers to that question: some are small, some are big, and I'm not really interested in listing them here

[heavy sinew]

so why are you trying to prrof them wrong then

and are you not religious because of your family or because you decided to

bruh

[zinc glen]

The only thing I am trying to do here is to point out that the "proof" you have given a) is not a new concept to this debate (in the general sense) and b) is not a proof

[heavy sinew]

i undrestood a but it is a proof

and being old doesent mean it isnt correct

[zinc glen]

Again, it really isn't

[heavy sinew]

prove it

what did i said wrong

is there is anything not logic in what i said

[true wedge]

🦆 🍿

[heavy sinew]

you cant just say it isnt a proof

and pls dont send me some tall report or smth

and dont ay complex words as what you said earlier

and dont tell me some historical events or smth

go strict to what you want to say pls

[sharp mulch]

[heavy sinew]

because if you do that you will juste mess everything and i will forget what are talking about

remember you are proving that my argument is false

[true wedge]

let him type 😭

[zinc glen]

Not really, all I am aiming to show is that your argument is not necessarily true ...

[heavy sinew]

ok

pls prove it stricly

you cant just say it

[unborn meteor]

yaaaaaaaaapper

[heavy sinew]

ok bro

[solid snow]

are you old enough to be here

[heavy sinew]

i am 50 is that enouph?

[true wedge]

X

[unborn meteor]

you said you were 19 earlier

[heavy sinew]

shit

shut up man why did you told him

[true wedge]

shut up man 🤬

fr

[unborn meteor]

i'm not "man"

[heavy sinew]

shut up women

[true wedge]

wormin*

[solid snow]

<@&268886789983436800>

[gusty socket]

use context clues

[heavy sinew]

@zinc glen bro i am tired of waiting

[solid snow]

tbf i read it as serious

[true wedge]

Bro has the attention span of subtos

[solid snow]

But I understand

[neat lintel]

.

[heavy sinew]

@zinc glen pls type somthing short

[true wedge]

shut up woman

[heavy sinew]

i am a man thank you

[true wedge]

shut up man

[heavy sinew]

hhhh okey

[true wedge]

[heavy sinew]

bro what are you typing there are you seriously trying to prove that i am wrong?

[unborn meteor]

he's tryna prove that your argument is logically invalid i think

[heavy sinew]

i know

but he cant

because its not invalide

[unborn meteor]

well it is i think

if i understand correctly

[heavy sinew]

remember this comment:

[unborn meteor]

nah

[neat lintel]

bro can someone teach me logarithm in deep or can provide some video or resource

[heavy sinew]

he will start typing some complex words and historical events and talk about philosofy,but at the end he will not prove anything

[unborn meteor]

khan academy

[heavy sinew]

that's the religion room go to discussion to know that

@unborn meteor mark my words i will need you to witness

[neat lintel]

ok

[unborn meteor]

nah

[heavy sinew]

why?

[unborn meteor]

bye

[true wedge]

No, more like the argument doesn't actually prove anything meaningful

[solid snow]

are you seriously treating a complex and nuanced reply as a bad thing?

[unborn meteor]

i don't feel like talking to cranks anymore

ah whatever

[heavy sinew]

saying somthing complex and doesent get to the point.isnt that bad

[heavy sinew]

can you explain what is cranks?

[true wedge]

Bro tried to slip in the "doesn't get to the point"

[solid snow]

im sure theyll be making a point

[true wedge]

Sometimes a mirror is more useful than a dictionary

[heavy sinew]

i really dont know what it mean

[gusty socket]

you would much rather be epicly owned by a small, funny quip that’s extremely difficult to reply to because it lacks any substance!

[heavy sinew]

bruh

[heavy sinew]

so i dont know you and you dont know me and you shosed to say somthing bad about me huh

[gusty socket]

well, i don’t know you so i can’t say anything bad about you

i am just giving you a funny response

[heavy sinew]

bro

[gusty socket]

it was objectively hilarious

[twin elk]

Someone pls help me out in #math-discussion 😭

My brain is too small

[heavy sinew]

bruh

[heavy sinew]

ok sir

i am just gonna ignore you

[gusty socket]

listen i’ll be here all week. i work for tips! put ‘em in the jar!

[unborn meteor]

ignoring a mod great idea

[gusty socket]

okay i’ll stop antagonizing you now

but for the record i was objectively, indisputably funny, as always

[twin elk]

I'll agree with that if you help me in math discussion

[gusty socket]

sorry i can’t because i am gonna get to therapy, but since it was indisputable you can’t dispute it and be right anyways.

good luck with ur problem

[twin elk]

😭

[heavy sinew]

what do you need lil man

[twin elk]

Check #math-discussion

[zinc glen]

Fine, since you are so intent that I "strictly" counter your argument, lets condense this into a rough syllogism:
A) The probability that you find a space-ship in a forest is exceedingly low.
B) The probability that the body occurs "coincidentally" is comparable to that of finding a space-ship in the forest.
C) We should not accept the truth of a proposition if the probability of it occurring (on our premises) is exceedingly low.
D) By A, B, C, we should not accept the proposition that humans (or bodies) occured coincidentally.
This is not exact, but the initial argument wasn't really exact either so 🤷‍♂️

Objection to B: this is essentially one of Hume's objections to the teleological argument as well. Not only do we not have any reason to accept this premise a priori, the analogy between the two situations described is not very good. Nature, and the things living in it (including our bodies), are not like nonhuman artifacts, and there are substantial differences: living vs. nonliving, self-sustaining vs not, etc.

Objection to C: This is a tad more subtle, but this should be replaced by: We may accept a proposition (even one with exceedingly low probability) when we have reason to not believe an alternative explanation or (as is more fitting in this case) we have no substantial reason to believe in the alternative explanation.

Related objection (though not an objection directly to the argument): Even if we accept this argument in its entirety, this does not get us to any sort of theistic god. The most this argument gets us to is an "order principle" which is capable of causing complexity.

Again, this is a rough rebuttal to a roughly translated syllogism, so if you are any way actually interested in responses to the argument, you really should check out the SEP article, or at least look for responses to the teleological argument.

and no, you don't get to ask for "strict" disproof and "short" in the same breath

[heavy sinew]

bro what that hell

wait i need some 5min to read this

[true wedge]

I already read it

u gotta lock in

[heavy sinew]

objection to b: you are saying that nature is not like nonhuman artifacts so the analogie arent correct right?no ,because actualy both of them are made by ressource that exist i the universe ,if we assumed that you are correct.then in an environnement that full of iron and matterial necessairly enouph to make a ship it is normal to find a ship.whish it wrong.its like saying that we putted all the matterials neddet to a ship to be made and putted energy the ship will be made wish it not true

[heavy sinew]

that's my reply on b

wait till i read c

[zinc glen]

Objection to this objection: There are known, evidently substantiated processes by which life becomes more complex in the presence of appropriate material (organic chemicals, etc). There are no known natural processes by which the material elements of a space ship may permute themselves into a spaceship.

[heavy sinew]

"more compkex" yes but not made

it is real that life may get complex by biologie(wich it also made by god who made every phisical law) but can be made

[zinc glen]

That's not really true either: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26876/

[heavy sinew]

you cant answer with not really

how old are yo btw

[zinc glen]

You don't need to know that

[heavy sinew]

bruh

are you so young?

[zinc glen]

Old enough to be a Ph.D. student, that's enough info

[heavy sinew]

yes that's enouph

[true wedge]

You're in no place to say "bruh" my guy

[solid snow]

did you skip the part where evidence disproving what you said was given

[true wedge]

you can't explicitly lie about your age and then expect other people to report their age willy nilly 😭

[heavy sinew]

i cant argue with a phd student and another guy sorry

[solid snow]

skill issue?

[heavy sinew]

yes i don even study phillosophy,he look like he studied it

[true wedge]

Maybe that's an indication of something

[heavy sinew]

i am like arguing with the main boss

[zinc glen]

Any philosophy I know is entirely amateur; I do math primarily
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in this discussion. If you are actually interested in the actual scholarly debate on the teleological argument, here is the SEP article again: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/
Idk if they have translations if that is an issue, but there are certainly more sources included here.

[heavy sinew]

ok by

[jovial steppe]

What is e^ln0

[vocal vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-sesame-street-alaska-screaming-scream-gif-7166094732023911363

[lime fossil]

How to understand the inverse function is g(f(x)) = x, it is quite clumsy and mixed. Can someone explain and prove it?

[glass peak]

This is just a definition, there isn’t much to say. A function g is said to be the inverse of a function f if for all x in the domain the composition g(f(x))=x

The idea is that g is just undoing whatever f does and gives you the original input back out

[lime fossil]

So how to prove it and understand from y=f(x) and turns into inverse?

[mint viper]

if you struggle with that, think in some example:
if your f(x) := x + 5 and g(x) := x - 5
If you do f(g(5)) = 5, the idea is that if you do g(5) you get 0 and if you do f(0) you get back to 5 (the initial value).
They are inverse...
Also, that's the definition, there's no proof needed as mentioned above

[heavy sinew]

.

hello discussion 2

[neat lintel]

Hello

Can anyone help me with a math problem I have?

[upbeat shore]

#❓how-to-get-help

[fresh comet]

hi, for math help, you should probably…
a) open a help channel (see #❓how-to-get-help) or ask in the appropriate subject channel, and
b) just ask! you don’t need to ask if anybody is able to help you

[neat lintel]

I already did

And

No one is answering

Also

There’s people who submitted their problem after me

Who got an answer

[fresh comet]

in that case, just be patient! the helpers are all volunteers, and help is not guaranteed

sometimes it can take a bit

[neat lintel]

Can you help me?

[fresh comet]

I’m unfortunately not able to at the moment, apologies!!

[neat lintel]

Ok no problem

[fresh comet]

good luck with your problem, and have a good day!

[vivid halo]

strictly speaking it's not defined

there are obvious ways to force it to be defined in which case it must be 0

[lime fossil]

How to know the function is one-to-one? And why?

[glass peak]

This is going to depend, a common way is to assume that f(x)=f(y) and show that you must have x=y

[true wedge]

Check if it is both injective and surjective

Aka bijective

Aka you can invert the function

[glass peak]

One to one is injective

[true wedge]

Oh

[glass peak]

Bijective is one to one and onto

[true wedge]

Oh I see

I always thought one to one was bijective lol

Mb

Well to show if a function is injective you have to prove

f(a) = f(b) => a = b

[glass peak]

If you’re dealing with say linear maps between vector spaces however it’s a fact that the function is injective if its kernel is trivial, so in that case you have another way to approach it, and this is often easier

[true wedge]

for all a and b in the domain

[halcyon spindle]

Yo does anyone know if this is legit https://www.non-trivial.org/

I'm in hs and getting an opportunity to do research in math would genuinely be my dream but it seems way too good to be true

Or do these things only take absolute geniuses and most people don't get in?

[limber thunder]

I searched about it on reddit and it seems "legit" in that they do select people and have them help on some kind of research for a few weeks, but the process is selective and involves a lot of phases, and apparently they have a system of referral codes which strikes me as really weird. It's probably some weird grift by Ivy alumni tbh

I also wouldn't do a program like this if you expect to do research in "pure math"

[halcyon spindle]

Ah, ic. Thanks for giving me a heads-up.

Do you have any other recommendations to places I could look if I was interested in doing research in pure math then? (This isn't just for college apps, I'm seriously considering studying mathematics in the future and I want to see what the research process was like)

[limber thunder]

since I'm not in the US other people will probably know better

[ember lance]

https://math.mit.edu/research/highschool/primes/

[thick yacht]

Is that just for the Boston area?

https://math.mit.edu/research/highschool/primes/usa/

[storm sage]

this is one of the weird math terminology things, "one-to-one correspondence" means bijective but "one-to-one" as in "one-to-one function" or "one-to-one mapping" means injective

part of the reason why it's just easier to use in-/sur-/bijective

[true wedge]

Ohh yeah I remember hearing it with "correspondence"

[true wedge]

Yeah I always use the jectives

That's so weird though

[glass peak]

It is slightly easier to work out which is which from the onto/ one to one names but it’s just so much more ambiguous, I’m definitely more of an in/surjective kinda guy

[storm sage]

onto is a weird af name

[glass peak]

It kinda makes sense, I can see where it came from but I don’t love it

[storm sage]

although surjective is just onto but french

injective and bijective actually seem intuitive

[glass peak]

I will no longer be using the injective surjecrive terminology, thank you for bringing this to my attention

[fresh comet]

[true wedge]

Real

Dude I'm so smart I thought of a meme
[ \mathbb{R}\text{eal}]

[fathom swallow]

ruffleduck

[storm sage]

"this is an on-function, an in-function, and a two-function"

[jaunty ibex]

Now do the same for 100 over algebra terms

UFD, PID, integral domain, bla bla

[blazing mist]

realeal

[primal seal]

test

😎 ok cool

[verbal cove]

@primal seal can you verify a proof for me?

is anyone available tio verify a proof?

[rose pewter]

hello, suppose a function approaching infinity was always f’ > 0 and f’’ < 0, would this indicate a sort of asymptote(theoretically)

[limber thunder]

not necessarily, just consider something like f(x)=log(x) which is increasing and concave

[rose pewter]

thanks, thats sort of what i had in mind i guess i misunderstood the meaning of asymptote

[limber thunder]

yeah I suppose f'' < 0 suggests that the derivative f' is decreasing with x, but you don't know how fast it is decreasing so you can't guarantee much regarding asymptotic behavior

[rose pewter]

definitely

im guessing there would be an asymptote for f’(x) though right?

[limber thunder]

again this isn't always true, consider something like f'(x)=1/log(x) (so f(x) could be just the integral of this function, e.g. from 1 to x). Then f'(x) is positive and f''(x) is negative for large enough x

[limber thunder]

in this particular example it is true that f'(x)=1/x has an asymptote

but it doesn't hold in general

[verbal cove]

@limber thunder how're you doing>

[warm umbra]

it looks like derivada has left this message on read

please use my message as a barrier between the past and the future of #serious-discussion

have fun!

[limber thunder]

yeah sorry about that

[limber thunder]

kinda mid tbh but such is life

[verbal cove]

It'll get better, I believe

I need you to help me verify a proof

[verbal cove]

will you be able to do that

[limber thunder]

me specifically 😭

I'm busy rn sorry

[verbal cove]

ah

[warm umbra]

issok

it happens

[verbal cove]

hi

[warm umbra]

hi

[verbal cove]

can you help me in verifying an inequality proof?

[warm umbra]

i personally cant, but im sure if you post this in a help channel you should be able to get it verified

apolgies, im not the smartest person, and im even worse at teaching

[verbal cove]

you're blessed

[tired nymph]

Is there also help with ecology here or only math?

[leaden torrent]

this is a math server.

[ocean harbor]

there's a bio server

[north topaz]

Seriously people ask chem here

Next we need people asking about history and English

[ember lance]

So I have come to the understanding that my advisor set up these meetings and projects to help me get confidence in talking with other researchers in different areas.

Pretty cool of her

[ember lance]

I am always down with discussing Roman/Greek history.

Maybe even WW2 too.

[hexed pier]

Who invented math?

[coarse bridge]

aliens

[light spoke]

hey guys, some time ago on this server i noticed there was a reccomendation to refrain from using chatgpt for math. Is that still the case? Can i rely on it to explain me theories or derviations of formulas for example?

[glass peak]

Very much still the case

It’s just a consequence of how LLMs work, maths is logical and takes problem solving, LLMs just guess what the next word in a sentence is likely to be, and will happily make shit up when it has to

[light spoke]

I understand that but doesnt that just make it bad for whenever youre trying to solve something? what if im just trying to learn theories and the intuition behind them, can i really not rely on it?

[ember lance]

The o1 preview model is somewhat decent.

[surreal sapphire]

the less formal your questions are, the better it can perform

though in general i would be wary of getting intuition from elsewhere

intuition should be formed from working with the objects (which is necessarily done in a formal way)

[light spoke]

sorry, i dont follow

[surreal sapphire]

you learn math by doing math

and chatgpt is very bad at that

for getting an overview of some topic its fine, but you need to be critical with it

or just things like getting ressources

[light spoke]

fair enough

so as long as I am scpetical and cross referance i should be ok?

[ember lance]

That's basically what I've been doing. In my case I have a lot of experience grading, so I can smell its b.s. a mile away.

[light spoke]

good to hear, thanks for the responses

[neat lintel]

What do you guys do if YouTube videos can't explain/help you at a problem?

[north topaz]

1. what topic is this on?
2. why aren't the YT videos helping in your case?

[ocean harbor]

help me with English

[neat lintel]

1. sin, cos, tan in a unit circle and parables
2. It's only showing the basics and not specific types of problems that will be on the exam

[north topaz]

if you want to practice harder questions then look in your textbook

yeah YouTube doesn't have that many good worked examples

it's only if you need help understanding what the concept is, I feel

[neat lintel]

the thing is I'm absolute shit at math and textbooks won't help me either

I'm searching for solutions based on the problems from the textbook

[north topaz]

maybe you just need a different textbook

but honestly I feel the real issue is that learning takes effort

if you can't solve a problem when you change only the numbers in the question, you need more practice

also yeah getting an exposure to different problem types

[north topaz]

also I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this

what I will say is that don't memorise problems word-for-word
learn techniques and steps you can use to attack a question

[neat lintel]

I'm ready to take the effort but I just can't get into it

[north topaz]

maybe keep asking in the help channels

until you get the hang of the questions

[forest hemlock]

Hi, I would like some help please.

Is there any calculations or something similar to find my possible profits on bitcoin?

I would like to know how much I would of made at the current price if I invested £50 in it last November.

Thanks.

[north topaz]

you can't predict the madness of people

wait how much did your 50 pounds turn into right now?

you're asking for the percentage profit or loss right

there's an easy formula for that

[forest hemlock]

I want to know how much a £50 investment at last November's prices would be worth now at the current prices.

But I am not sure how to do that.

[north topaz]

did you check this yet then?

[forest hemlock]

I did not purchase any - simply wondering

[north topaz]

ah if your 50 pounds turned into 70 pounds

then your percentage profit would be (new - old)/old * 100%

or (70 - 50)/50 * 100%

,calc (70 - 50)/50 * 100

[fathom swallow]

Result:

40

[north topaz]

so 40%

profit

(positive = profit, negative = loss)

[forest hemlock]

So you are saying £50 of bitcoin last november is now worth £70 at these high prices?

[north topaz]

no

[forest hemlock]

That is what I want to know.

[solid snow]

you can perform the same calculation by replacing 70 with the current price

[north topaz]

okay one year ago Bitcoin was trading at around 55,000 in my currency

it's at 148,000 now

apply the same thing

,calc (148000)/(55000) * 50

I've replaced 100% with your 50 pounds

[fathom swallow]

Result:

134.54545454545

[north topaz]

yeah so this is how much you would have now

,calc (148000 - 55000)/(55000) * 50

[fathom swallow]

Result:

84.545454545455

[north topaz]

this would be your profit

[north topaz]

okay I see what you mean now

[forest hemlock]

Bitcoin prices:

21st Nov 2023 - £28,531.34
21st Nov 2024 - £71,336.94

I want to know how much £50 would be worth today, if it was invested in Nov 2023.

[north topaz]

sorry it does matter what currency you use, cause different currencies have different exchange rates to BTC

for the prices

,calc 71336.94/28531.34 * 50

[fathom swallow]

Result:

125.01505362174

[north topaz]

okay then

yeah cause I rounded that's why also

[forest hemlock]

,calc 71336.94/28531.34 * 50

[fathom swallow]

Result:

125.01505362174

[forest hemlock]

So you are saying that my £50 from Nov 2023 would be worth £125 Nov 2024?

[north topaz]

yep

[forest hemlock]

Thank you

Lower than I thoought aha

I thought it would be a few hundred around 500 since it jumped nearly 40k

[north topaz]

the more you invest the more you can win

the more you can lose also

that's why you might want to look into options trading for Bitcoin

[forest hemlock]

Will do , thanks

[north topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5w-dEgIU1M

this is excellent watching

[north topaz]

also disclaimer, I'm not responsible for any decisions or financial losses

I am not a qualified financial advisor lol

[forest hemlock]

Wasn't gonna hold you to them...

[north topaz]

yeah just saying this to be clear

the options part comes in around 5:30 in the video

you can bet a smaller amount to gain the same profit as with a larger amount

but then you might also lose 100% of that smaller amount

[jagged forge]

uh oh we’re talking about options

[north topaz]

uh-oh?

[jagged forge]

buying 0dte out of the money options is a faster way to rid yourself of money than drenching it in gasoline and burning it

:^)

[sharp mulch]

This is not a server for feet pics

[rocky shuttle]

#feet-discussion

[mental stratus]

out of sight out of mind

[upbeat shore]

this is #「ivory-tower-emeritus」

[next blade]

you can just do e.g. futures if you want leverage

[thick yacht]

ToE is probably to complex to understand.

[true zinc]

what is ToE...theory of everything?

[rocky shuttle]

funny that the notification showed which channel this is, but now it's just no access for me

[sharp mulch]

[thick yacht]

I assume so.

[lime fossil]

How to integrate tan^(-1)x?

[sharp mulch]

[\int\arctan(x)dx=x\arctan(x)-\frac12\log(x^2+1)]

[fathom swallow]

Angetenar

[sharp mulch]

Compute using integration by parts

And the fact that [\frac{d}{dx}\arctan(x)=\frac{1}{x^2+1}]

[fathom swallow]

Angetenar

[devout lodge]

It would work differently on different subjects

@alpine kindle

That's my humble opinion

Now usually it might work one way, but not always

[alpine kindle]

the dunning kruger effect is not about what percentage of a subject you think you know

[devout lodge]

Yes but that depends on what part you know

[alpine kindle]

not specifically anyway

[devout lodge]

I can have a lecture that opens a billion questions on a topic, or a lecture that opens none

[alpine kindle]

this is the graph from the study

[devout lodge]

Yes

And what's usually shares is the difference exaggerated and wobbled

Alongside the assumed connection to the origin

[alpine kindle]

sorry here is the actual one

with the data

[devout lodge]

Anyways my point still stands

It depends on the topic and how you're introduced to it

That's what I think

[alpine kindle]

this is in psychology

[devout lodge]

But I might be wrong

[alpine kindle]

i mean like

the curve online is a fabrication

[devout lodge]

It is

[alpine kindle]

like

[devout lodge]

But if you subtracted the perceived from the actual

[alpine kindle]

as far as i know

[devout lodge]

And connected it to 0

You can see how the idea began

[alpine kindle]

why would you connect it to 0

[devout lodge]

Assumption

Proof by "I guess so"

[alpine kindle]

it's basically a line

going downwards

[devout lodge]

It would look like this if you connected it to 0

Fucking h e double hockey sticks

Can't insert images

| \
|  \```

But it's more gentle downward

I should study

Cya

Sorry

[alpine kindle]

i mean this is just what happens when you read the graph wrong lol

bye

[devout lodge]

No

It's when you read it right and add your own assumption

[alpine kindle]

there isn't a real gap

at the bottom

[devout lodge]

Which is worse

[alpine kindle]

the gap is a percentile thing

[devout lodge]

I know, but the second isn't with percentiles

Right?

[alpine kindle]

it is

quartiles sorry

look at the bottom axis

[devout lodge]

Oh sorry

[alpine kindle]

anyway go study

[devout lodge]

I guess I have the dunning Kruger effect

[vast wraith]

tfw graphs excellent ways to present results exceedingly misleadingly

[devout lodge]

xD

Dunning Kruger squared

[vast wraith]

dunno if that’s what’s happened above though

[devout lodge]

This is the last half of our convo

[alpine kindle]

i think this is the best way they could have done it though

[devout lodge]

Began on #book-recommendations

[vast wraith]

i was just making a general statement, point being it’s very easy to adjust the axes to exaggerate or understate the data

[lime fossil]

How to prove sin^(-1)x + cos^(-1)x = pi/2, if 0 <= x <= 1?

[sharp mulch]

Probably use the fact that sin(x)=cos(pi/2-x)

[lime fossil]

Should I use the derivative for the inverse function to calculate x?

[dense brook]

Does anyone here think that the way algebra 1 is taught in uni is too secluded and is not well motivated?

[glass peak]

Without going to your uni and knowing what’s in algebra 1 and how it’s taught this is impossible to answer

[north topaz]

@hexed bronze I know I was a bit harsh but I wanted to give you a wakeup call, to be honest where other people in your life might have pretended everything was fine

I was more angry at the system that failed you, like your high school not teaching basic stuff, than you personally

especially since your profile says you're doing biomedical engineering

you need a solid grounding in the three sciences and later on, different branches of engineering physics and medicine

for such a STEM-intensive course you really need to speak to an academic advisor at your uni

either you are going to commit hard if you really want this degree and these careers

or you should consider switching degrees

[north topaz]

in particular, it's easier to ask for help now when there's still enough time to change things around

than for you to fail or have to accept whatever consequences later on

[hexed bronze]

Thank you bro ♥️

i will try

[north topaz]

that's good to know

also from my own life experience, the best teachers in my life had high expectations cause they wanted us to do well in life
they never or rarely shouted at us or lost their temper
and they also never stopped believing no matter how hard the obstacles we faced were

I hope someone like that enters your life
good luck and all the best with your studies, career, and life!

[hexed bronze]

I entered the best uni in my whole country and with the highest gpa engineering field.. if i did that with shitty highschool teaching i can definitely do the next 5 years of college 💪

[north topaz]

but yeah I've had times where these teachers would make me realise what I was doing wrong academically and it's definitely a hard pill to swallow

[north topaz]

wow

congrats I guess

[hexed bronze]

Yeah just a bit embarrassing my little sister in highschool knows more maths than i do

but it is what it is

its the byproduct of school cramming

[north topaz]

ah I see, that seems counterintuitive, haha

but it makes perfect sense, cause if you were only asked to retain this knowledge until the exam

[hexed bronze]

I crammed everything at the end of the year and got a good gpa otherwise im an idiot that doesnt deserve this field

[north topaz]

then yeah that's unfortunate cause STEM really does build on previous knowledge

if you don't want that the humanities don't really have that structure

anyway not saying that you should switch

[quick beacon]

@smoky sable @lofty schooner sorry, I fell asleep last night. The diagram was correct.

[ebon ether]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-gif-26826812

[ocean harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-space-epic-mbed-fail-gif-21266064

haven't posted this gif in while

[north topaz]

do I see GD?

lmao

[ocean harbor]

ye thats thinking space :3

[neat lintel]

Does anyone know a good pdf reader for windows?

[dapper tendon]

Adobe Acrobat

[neat lintel]

for reading books

[limber thunder]

I just use evince, its multiplatform but prob too minimal for some people

not sure if it even has annotations

[north topaz]

nunca he oído de esto

[ocean harbor]

I use pdf editor pro

you can use anything for it

[neat lintel]

thanks
Ill take a look at them

[vocal trout]

holy shit ive been doing math shit for 3 hours 😦

[dense brook]

Well of course by algebra 1, I mean Modern Abstract Algebra. And when I say that if someone has any concerns about how it's taught I mean the general curriculum of teaching it through a bunch of definitions about groups, rings, fields and then see how they apply. I feel like the definitions are poorly motivated and that these could be taught in a better way

It could depend on how the instructor teaches it. So I'm curious the way you learned it, you're most welcome to share

[sharp mulch]

This is not a feet server

[small dust]

[limber thunder]

[vivid halo]

[potent nacelle]

send proof

[ember lance]

I find it interesting no two of the regular people I see in the server share the same username. And moreover, most usernames are pairwise quite distinct. This is in contrast with me going to school with 3 people that shared one of my names as a kid.

I can guess some of the reasons behind this, but I still find it interesting.

[merry plank]

Imagine you would have to use regular names as online monikers

[ember lance]

Even in the AT server where folks are encouraged to use their names, there's very few repeated names.

[thick yacht]

People would use fake names, like "John Titor".

[rocky shuttle]

Hououin Kyouma

[pulsar pagoda]

thats like the guy that claimed to be from the future

or some shit like that

fucking stein's gate brainrot

[thick yacht]

The main John Titor poster started posting on a forum called "Time Travel Institute" in November 2000. He used a nickname like "timetrave_0". He only started using "John Titor" when he started posting on Art Bell's Post2Post forum which required a binary name of that format.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010405011723/http://bbs.artbell.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25

[sonic sentinel]

ai companies made a bad move by managing to first automate a career where the people inside it are so insane they think life is meaningless if you don't do the stuff in their job

[ionic star]

yeah

[true zinc]

@cinder zephyr did you receive the message we requested to be relayed to you yesterday?

[cinder zephyr]

wut

I assume no then

since idk what you're talking about

[true zinc]

we had to make our gitlab private yesterday to rid someone very harmful to us from following our profile, that also removed you as a follower, so we wanted to let you know you'd need to re-follow our profile to get code update notifs and stuff

[cinder zephyr]

I follow your gitlab?

[true zinc]

you were

[cinder zephyr]

oh ok

[sonic sentinel]

i am so fucking sick of seeing this immature ass worldview on ai art, that somehow generative ai has not only removed any fun you can have by creating art but also that you're doing some kind of pro-human anti-capitalist jihad by not acknowledging that ai can make good art

[ember lance]

I think the problem with it isn't that AI can't make good art, but the sourcing of the material used to train the generative models.

[sonic sentinel]

there have been a fuckton of jobs that got automated the past, idk, 20 years? and this is the first time I see anyone going "life is meaningless now" cause the ai is threatening their jobs, like more power to these people for enjoying their job so much but also you have to be mature enough to acknowledge that maybe there are other meaningful activities in this world?

[wooden falcon]

it is interesting to see gitlab get some use

I’ve mostly only seen it cuz GNOME hosts their source code on there

always good to have an alternative to github

fuck microsoft

[ember lance]

my internship used gitlab but we switched to github cause it was cheaper after a number of people i think.

[sonic sentinel]

i distrust this argument. it reeks of... after-the-fact?
like why did i not see this argument being tossed around when models were smaller? there were models being trained on copyrighted data long before chatgpt, and i didn't see anyone pointing their fingers and going "ooh that's stealing!!". it only became an "ethical concern" after it turned out that the ai might take your job.
there's also the usual argument that humans take inspiration from human art in the same way that ai do, and there isn't something fundamentally better about how humans do this, yada yada yada.
but there is also another less usual argument i want to put forward. nobody on the face of this earth is able to extract a pixel-perfect image from the training data (or anything even close, like that image but with some noise) using the weights of a large model. if this task is even possible, it would require a massive advance in interpretability. if anyone tells you something along the lines of "the ai takes bits and pieces from images it's seen instead of being creative like a human", they don't know that. they are lying. we straight up don't have enough knowledge about ai (or human!) internal mechanics to make a claim like this.
anyway i hope we can at least compromise that there do exist pretty clearly ethical models even in the "training models on unwilling peoples' work is unethical" framework, and that in general, its wiser to acknowledge what ai is capable of even if it means humans end up looking less special.

[gusty socket]

[ember lance]

I think of it this way. I've spent years refining my art technique, making and marketing my own distinct style. And it's a very cutthroat business. Suddenly someone puts it into this weird gadget that can generate art that is identical to my style, without my permission, and does not attribute me in any way. I think I would be pissed.

[sonic sentinel]

Would you still be pissed if the gadget couldn't do it?

[ember lance]

wdym

[sonic sentinel]

like if it was dookie

at making art, or art in your style