serious-discussion

[neat lintel]

Like dark colors and tons of symbols

Just hard to follow

[keen viper]

When did server logo change?

[neat lintel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Transgender_Day_of_Visibility

[chilly hull]

wait was it not for april fools

i thought the joke was "we stole the torus for april fools because someone ate it"

[keen viper]

that was my thought but it's like 4 days now

[keen viper]

There is international day for everything. Why start now? Did server became google?

[neat lintel]

[loud snow]

Yea

[tranquil torrent]

hi

[scenic pond]

petition to start: International International Day Day

[keen viper]

I bet there already is recursion day

[zealous garden]

They should've known, this would never pass the init system flame wars

Brainlet move tbh

[tender tulip]

Fuck this made me chuckle

[keen sinew]

Hi discussy 2

[neat lintel]

are they intentionally green

[tawdry pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/nctzen-glowing-green-nct-color-gif-5846549362595584245

[coarse sierra]

They glow in the dark

You just run em over

[tawdry pecan]

Rest in peace terry

[visual breach]

When will we get back the torus

It was shiny..

[tawdry pecan]

When we solve the arg

[visual breach]

Arg?

[tawdry pecan]

#「arg-lounge」

Look in #changelog

[latent zodiac]

wait what did he say im soo curious

[visual breach]

This says no access

[tawdry pecan]

Oh

Search "sseei" in all messages

Then react to it

[jagged forge]

<@&268886789983436800>

[fervent pebble]

the meta what game

[storm sage]

Could anyone actually parse that sentence

[fervent pebble]

i've never heard of that

[storm sage]

I got stuck trying to read it

[jagged forge]

[storm sage]

Now I'm curious wtf they meant

[fervent pebble]

unban them frfr

[jagged forge]

something about the metaverse ig

[fresh comet]

no; all of us in #discussion were literally clueless too lmao

[noble dawn]

(mods let me know if i need to remove/move this, but i think it's relevant/useful!)

[fervent pebble]

hm

[noble dawn]

or if there's a better place to post it lol

[fervent pebble]

you could have just dmed modmail and asked to post it in events or something

as of rn you should probably delete it and ask permission first

advertising other discord servers is also very rarely (never?) allowed so you might have to ask special permission for that too

[noble dawn]

kk got it

ok i messaged modmail with the ad, thx

[neat lintel]

,n

,w rotation matrix for 4d object

,w rotation matrix

[fathom swallow]

Results provided by WolframAlpha

Click here to refine your query online
Upgrade to WolframAlpha Pro!

Requested by brandon_hu

[neat lintel]

So uhh

To rotate a function I would just

or rather

to rotate polynomial, do I just write a vector in P_n and use a NxN rotation matrix?

That's crazy

[faint light]

yeah

you can do this parametrically

https://youtu.be/h9OWnuarYuc?si=pkDqmF7Fhv6VzvUz

some good follow up videos too

[sonic sentinel]

some incomprehensible ive already forgotten: smth like "lgbtq+ but is not 2 genders makes more sense than a million"

the million was probably unrelated to the whales

[old oak]

I've had the brief unfunny thought of whether anyone identifies as a whale, and then the genuine curiosity over whether there are whale furries.

[grand sapphire]

there are a number of whale fursonas

although people usually choose like orcas or dolphins instead

or sharks

[graceful flower]

hmm, sharks are pretty popular actually

[normal vortex]

@small dust if you use that $\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(x)}{x} = 1$ to prove that $\frac{d}{dx}\sin(x) = \cos(x)$, you can't then use that $\frac{d}{dx}\sin(x) = \cos(x)$ to prove $\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(x)}{x} = 1$ otherwise it's circular. That's my point.

[small dust]

can you make sure there are no typos here before i comment

namely here

[fathom swallow]

Awesam

[normal vortex]

yeah I copied the wrong thing

fixed it

[small dust]

sure but that's not the story when you try to apply lhopital's rule to lim x to 0 sin(x)/x is 1 if you already know d/dx sin(x) = cos(x) somehow (however that somehow might be)

even if the somehow was proving it using lim x to 0 sin(x)/x = 1

[normal vortex]

no only if the somehow was proving it in any way other than that

because if the way you proved it was with the limit then all you've shown is that these are equivalent conditions, but not that either of these facts follows from pre-existing knowledge derived from axioms and definitions

[small dust]

what

we are treating d/dx sin(x) = cos(x) as "pre-existing knowledge"

[normal vortex]

well rigorously you can't really do that

[bright hill]

you can

[small dust]

there are no issues with applying lhopital's rule to lim x to 0 sin(x)/x in that case. it's completely pointless if we already know lim x to 0 sin(x)/x = 1

but it's not circular to do so

[bright hill]

if you have sin(x) already defined and you can prove it's differentiable everywhere

[old oak]

You can also prove that the derivative of sin is cos without that limit.

In fact you should, since you should be defining the sine using a power series

[normal vortex]

yes but it's the mechanism of proof that matters. you can't prove a statement using another statement that depends on the statement you are proving

[normal vortex]

yes 100%. then it's not circular. but if you do, then it is circular

[small dust]

applying lhopital's rule is still not circular dawg

[normal vortex]

but applying L'hospital's rule assumes you know the derivative of sine

[small dust]

sure

rediscovering lim x to 0 sin(x)/x = 1 does not imply whatever we did was circular

[old oak]

Without power series odds are you haven't defined the sine rigorously anyway, so what harm is throwing in a bit of circular reasoning going to do 😛

(I don't mean you personally, just as a general note)

[normal vortex]

and if you prove the derivative of sine using the limit way (as opposed to the power series way) then you come across a point where you have to evaluate $\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(x)}{x}$

[fathom swallow]

Awesam

[normal vortex]

fair enough. but at least we can acknowledge that's still circular

[small dust]

you could show lim x to 0 sin(x)/x = 1 with power series and then find the derivative of sin after

[small dust]

i think i saw a discussion on this once let me see if i can find it

[old oak]

That's utterly deranged, I love it

[small dust]

nvm can't find

[normal vortex]

Doesn’t this still require you to know the derivative of sine?

[small dust]

no

you can show you can evaluate limits of power series "term-wise" without ever going into derivatives

[old oak]

Yeah, you define sine as the sum of a power series, define the cosine as the sum of another power series, and show that one is the derivative of the other using general power series properties.

Wait, that's another thing

But also what slayla says, having defined sine as a power series, you can just get the limit at 0 of sin(x)/x without derivating

[normal vortex]

Yes define it as a power series first

I agree

[small dust]

more specifically you can evaluate lim x to 0 sin(x)/x = 1 by just evaluating 1 - x^2/3! + x^4/5! +- ... with x = 0

[small dust]

oh here i found it @normal vortex #precalculus message

and above that

#precalculus message

[normal vortex]

yes if it exists, which you have to prove (along with the value) without using any information about $\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(x)}{x}$

[fathom swallow]

Awesam

[normal vortex]

the circular logic is not with the use of L'Hospital, it's with the evaluation of the derivative of sine

[small dust]

k i'm done

[fresh comet]

what happened here

[old oak]

Circularity

They were arguing the same thing over and over

[fresh comet]

funny

[slate turret]

gold

[long matrix]

guys you cant divide by 0

(sin x) / x is illegal

[old oak]

my students have taught me that (sin x) / x = 1, for all x

[small dust]

isn’t that equal to sin?

[old oak]

It should be a sin, yes

[dire glen]

anyone knows if it's possible to create folders in geogebra to organize the functions?

i don't see it's possible

[alpine comet]

Forgive me Father, for I have sinned

It might be not so trivial to see how to define things properly

But tbh, I take those things for granted at that point

[neat lintel]

I am not sure if this question belongs here , but
do the most of mathematicians questions the fundamentals of mathematics or they just assume theories as obviously true and play the game of proving theorems?
(It would be appreciated if someone within the academic world can give their experience.)

i.e : how common is someone questioning a definition?

[tawdry pecan]

I would assume the former

There are entire fields devoted to messing with axioms to see what systems you get

You'd have to be more specific on what you mean by "questioning fundamentals" though

do you mean as in doubting their validity?

[neat lintel]

ok , for example , why should I use set theory as foundational theory?
or why to accept some definitions?
(this is highly philosophical )

[tawdry pecan]

ah, I see

I think that set theory is used because it has been refined over many many years

It's been seen to be reliable as a baseline for everything else, i guess

[river moon]

you can hardly get something more foundational such that set theory follows from it

[neat lintel]

this arises because I have seen some physicist does not even know philosophy of science , etc. so thay make claims about reality and maybe they dont know the difficulties,
also , my abstract algebra professor has this attitude of just caring about mathematical facts , but no about their validity , just building more theorems (since he is a pure mathematician)
and this seems new to me

[tawdry pecan]

statistics

[neat lintel]

logicians question everything , there are very strange theories

[tawdry pecan]

And as for accepting some definitions or not, some mathemeticians (not very prominent ones) reject certain axioms and such

like, some mathemeticians dont believe in the full axiom of choice

idk

[neat lintel]

intuitionistic ones

[tawdry pecan]

buuut, its not the standard practice

[neat lintel]

are some examples

[tawdry pecan]

yeah

[neat lintel]

but in the standard it seems that the work of the mathematician is other

I mean

they interest seems to be others than that

I am not really sure of that

[tawdry pecan]

I think maybe it would help to clarify that set theory came after a lot of mathematics, so while it's the "base", it was constructed as a way to fit that

[river moon]

yes, if your ideas and weird theories do not address a certain problem not many people will care most likely

[neat lintel]

yeah , i know , but it is an example on how some mathematicians just go for the higher part

[neat lintel]

exactly

that's an important point

cause , from that point of view mathematics (pure/research) seems like a problem solving game

for specialized areas

[tawdry pecan]

it kind of is yea

[neat lintel]

I did not asked that to my professor , maybe he could get offended Idk

[tawdry pecan]

then the methods you learned while solving problem A help you solve problem B, and also generate like 30 new ones

[neat lintel]

and so on and so on

[tawdry pecan]

well, up to a point i assume

[neat lintel]

then teach/ research / teach / research

[tawdry pecan]

it's all (mostly) still very grounded in observations and concepts seen in reality

[neat lintel]

well , my professor is an algebraic number theory professor , so maybe I am getting just one part of the sample

[tawdry pecan]

yea

[tawdry pecan]

I didnt see this, sorry.

caring about mathematical facts , but no about their validity
This isnt really normal, even for pure mathemeticians

Maybe it's his just teaching method? But regardless, all theorems are motivated to an extent

[neat lintel]

well , not exactly , but like , every conversation , is was getting out of the scope of mathematics , he inmediatly returned to the topic , and begin talking about some specific problem

[tawdry pecan]

And if your teacher isn't motivating the theorems than I don't think you could get the full picture as easily

[neat lintel]

not just facts

[tawdry pecan]

ohk well thats just cause he's not a philosopher lmao

[neat lintel]

I mean he motivates the theorems , but he argues things like beauty , elegance and solutions to other pure mathematics problems

[tawdry pecan]

like, when you do higher math you kind of have to leave the more primitive stuff behind as to not get bogged down in technicalities

That doesnt mean it's not there, just that you dont always need to patch holes for every case

[tawdry pecan]

Could you elaborate?

I dont know what you mean really, but beauty isn't quite the motivation I had in mind

For me, bringing attention to a gap in understanding, or an applied problem we cant solve yet, is enough to motivate

but beauty and elegance is really not that useful when it comes to teaching

in fact, I feel that it can hide a lot of the inner structure of it

[neat lintel]

when he is writing a theorem , what he most value is beauty of some theorem , or elegance.
but the point I want to emphasize
is that like most physicist like to get explanation to phenomena
seems to me that most mathematicians are for the problems
and theory , but for theory itself

[tawdry pecan]

Yeah, it seems your professor is motivated by a different idea than you

[neat lintel]

(for my background , before college , I knew very little people who were mathematicians , and most of them were applied , (mathematical physics, dynamical systems, etc ))
so , doing pure mathematics , without a philosophical inquiry ,(because a lot of pure mathematics did indeed have one)
seems strange to me

[tawdry pecan]

I can understand that, yeah

[neat lintel]

is must be the most fun job

[tawdry pecan]

But I don't think it's entirely a shortcoming on your part

[neat lintel]

for doing it

[tawdry pecan]

Maybe if you teach for a long time, you start to forget the importance of how the theorem was discovered?

[neat lintel]

that's a good idea, so they get used to mathematics , adn becomes a sort of natural thing ? right?

[tawdry pecan]

I think that you shouldn't be afraid to ask your professor how a theorem was discovered, or what problems the theorem solved.

[tawdry pecan]

yeah

[neat lintel]

ok, that seems to have more sense to me

[tawdry pecan]

So I wouldnt worry about changing your outlook on math, just maybe ask questions that help motivate the ideas for you

Or, find sources that can do that for you if your teacher is unwilling

[neat lintel]

but then pure mathematicians, in some sense, play a game?
if the don't do a deep inquiry of what are those ideas , (numbers , space , etc) since that's very philosophical

[tawdry pecan]

I think pure mathematics has a large intersection with recreational math, yeah

but... I disagree that they don't care about the deep implications

I think they do care alot

[river moon]

they've already done it once and it's not philosophical

[neat lintel]

please explain

[river moon]

you can learn basic set theory, constructions of all the numbers and more in the appropriate math class

or if you didn't have one you can read a book if you need to know some of that

[neat lintel]

yeah , i know that , but according to what i have seen , their purpose is to do mathematics rather than question it, (not sure of it), so the proccess of learning is ssomething like:
"this is" (for example: (some theory , definition , etc))
and then from there studying mere interesting mathematical objects
but no ¿why is this?
when I talked to my professor he said , that you first learn the basics (a bachelor program)
and then you go for "more" (inquiry)
maybe this is some bias
but I feel that in general , the proccess is like this

that's seems pretty reasonable in applied mathematics for example
but in pure mathematics , is a "this is" that is constructed for more theories in the same pure math

[river moon]

it just seems like a pointless topic to discuss

[tawdry pecan]

their purpose is to do mathematics rather than question it
This is the professor's task while teaching you, maybe. But it shouldn't necessarily be yours

[neat lintel]

I already warn this was a little philosophical

[river moon]

if you disagree with some motivation of a definition, well what is there to argue about and why argue about it

all the stuff that was not pointless to question was already heavily developed using set theory and made more rigorous and formal

[neat lintel]

well , that's a philosophical assumption , but anyways , that's true , because in some sense , a lot of mathematicians care on the ¿how? rather this "annoying" ¿why?

but , I am not sure about that

that's why , at the begining I asked for some experiences xD

[river moon]

you can only go so far with the "why" question

[neat lintel]

I think the same

[river moon]

at this point you can't even formally define what a set is

at which point the discussion what a set is can go on for as long as you want it to go and that's just not what people want to talk about

[neat lintel]

that's is one of the things that surprise me of academia in general

some things are interesting , but simply nobody cares

[river moon]

people don't have to share the interests

much like a lot of pure mathematicians don't really care as much about real life applications

[neat lintel]

that's also incredible (at least for me )
cause their jobs are to do mathematics (and teach), but no a practical mathematics , so , it must be really fun
(I have no real experience about this , just things I have hear about some professors)

[tawdry pecan]

it does sound really fun yeah

[neat lintel]

well , but I get the point. whatever that could be done , and it is supported to be done can be done.

(not only pure mathematics, but pure mathematics is a really nice example)

[tawdry pecan]

I dont think u should worry too much about how this could be applied to that etc, Maybe try thinking about it as "this will help me further my understanding of this subject"

[neat lintel]

yeah

[tawdry pecan]

Cause when you do that, if you really understand it, you can start to wield it as a tool

[neat lintel]

also is a pretty noble approach

[river moon]

it's fun for them and maybe some of their colleagues, but not necessarily a lot of other people

there certainly are people in applied math that do the theory part taking practical implementation in account and there are those that do the theory only for their work to be picked up by somebody else to actually use it for something practical

[tawdry pecan]

And then you might find a real world application for something you solved with that tool

[neat lintel]

really nice then

[river moon]

and then there's also people that are more interested in practical and ready to be used results than theory, they usually work in the industry

and of course they might not care at all about some number theory conjecture that some number theorists finds fun to explore

[neat lintel]

thanks for helping me to clarify , this , I wasn't really aware of this , out side from knowing it exist

[neat lintel]

hi can some1 help pls

Use the axis of symmetry to find the turning point of the graph and hence express in turning point form:
a y=x2−4x+3

[odd narwhal]

#❓how-to-get-help

[primal oasis]

I joined to discuss about mathematics.everyone embracing lgbtq ewww

[crisp seal]

:3

You joined to discuss about mathematics so go ahead and do that, it has always been a gay safe space here like a lot of discord

[fervent pebble]

he left already

nice when the trash takes itself out

[ripe needle]

Are we going to ignore the irony that his bio says trans

[neat lintel]

hey

[fluid swan]

Yeah how dare well educated people respect the humanity of those with diverse gender and sexual identities

Also- how come the trans flag is gone?

[old oak]

It's still in the background, the "main" server logo had always been a torus

The background was changed to the Trans flag for Trans Visibility Day, and then the Torus was "stolen" on April Fools

And now it's been returned

[fluid swan]

Oh lol

[vale plover]

https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1bwatj7/rant_so_many_textbooks_and_expositions_dont_even/

[jagged forge]

reminds me of this quote from this chapter from The Mathematical Experience

then again I suppose textbooks ought to be different from papers

[hazy jewel]

does anyone can solve my computer organization course questions?

[burnt dune]

just ask

if by computer organization you mean computer architecture i can try to help

[sonic sentinel]

my mom was on board with getting adhd tested (idk what the medical term is and i don't care) and eventually we came to a disagreement on some phrasing on a form you were supposed to send

it said something like "for convenience, you can also have a teacher or councelor fill out this form"

i was confident in my interpretation of this as "a parent would fill out this form in the usual circumstance, but you can also have a teacher or counselor fill it out instead if you want"

but my mom interpreted it as "a teacher or counselor has to fill out this form"

now i have two main options:

1. try to convince my mom that my interpretation is correct
2. go to the counselor and explain the situation and basically have them write what i say onto the form

i could also ask a teacher to fill it out but i don't trust any of them

[neat lintel]

3. mom takes reading comprehension class

[sonic sentinel]

thats number 1 with extra steps

[meager idol]

What channel would be good to ask about 2D fourier transforms used in image processing?

[rocky shuttle]

#advanced-analysis

[loud snow]

I couldnt agree more with the answer

Gian Carlo is so real

[upper glade]

bro is it normal for math teachers to mansplain stuff i already know 🧍‍♀️

i had to ask a scary calc teacher for help and he was all like “you probably dont even know how to take the natural log of something”

blud im asking you for help on limits that include ln ofc im gonna know💀

[visual breach]

Wtf

[zealous garden]

I don't know how

[visual breach]

Just to check. Is it that he assumed you do not know (alike an average student) and explain everything in detail, or

Did he literally say it out that you likely do not know the stuff?

I can imagine one being cautious and trying to explain basic stuffs.

[fervent pebble]

probably just a shit teacher

[neat lintel]

Sounds like a horrible person. I would never talk to them again

[fervent pebble]

to be fair we get tons of ppl here who ask for limit help and don't know log properties 😭

[visual breach]

Yeah, that's quite common

[small dust]

to take the natural log of something you write ln just before it

[viscid lichen]

is it okay to be slow at math

[fervent pebble]

yes

[viscid lichen]

i'm finding that when i'm reviewing my curriculum i can't really remember how to do it but its really basic problems

what should i do

[fresh comet]

I'm too used to writing log now

ln looks weird

even in my physics classes I use log

[small dust]

yes that’s another way

[neat lintel]

Review more often

Practice with spaced repetition like anki flash cards or tests

[viscid lichen]

if i practice daily how long would it take to get good

[neat lintel]

2 minutes

[viscid lichen]

i'm thinking of taking precalc in the summer so i can get a headstart but i'm worried i wont be able to catch up with the curriculum rah

[neat lintel]

huh?

[viscid lichen]

precalculus in summer school

[neat lintel]

It should be trivial

Just gotta spend time studying

"Catching up" shouldn't be an issue

Precalc is really just going over everything you've already done before

Just algebra + trig, at least in the US

[viscid lichen]

my issue is that i haven't got a solid foundation of the fundamentals but tbf i also might be overthinking it a bunch o(-(

[neat lintel]

Have you been doing anything to fix your foundation?

[viscid lichen]

i've used khanacademy before but sporadically

recently i'm using this website

mathisfun

and i have a precalculus foundations 10 book i have worked in

[neat lintel]

Each week, how much time do you spend working on your foundations? Is it too much for you?

[viscid lichen]

maybe around 30 minutes i usually do it around 8 or 9 because i have other schoolwork

[neat lintel]

30 minutes a week?

[viscid lichen]

i had my math last semester

no a day

[neat lintel]

And how has 30 minutes of study been going for you? Have you been able to make notable progress everyday?

[viscid lichen]

i don't know;;

i dont have anything to compare to yet

[neat lintel]

when you finish studying do you feel like you actually learnt something, or do you feel like you completed your task?

[viscid lichen]

it depends

right now i feel like im learning

i really wanna like math and understand it

sorry for the silly question 😭 i'm just stressed

[ripe needle]

Buy a solid textbook and go through it 30-60 minutes a day for the whole summer

Do about 80% of the exercises at the end of each chapter.

[viscid lichen]

okay i will

thanks !!

[neat lintel]

hello!

[neat lintel]

Hello

wsg

[neat lintel]

i need help with a math sum guys

if anyone up for it

!help

[quasi jetty]

To ask for mathematics help on this server, please open your own help channel or help thread. See #❓how-to-get-help for instructions.

[distant heron]

[viscid flint]

hello

can someone help me with a problem

Let x have any number of digits and x is a perfect square. If you add 1 to evrey digit of x then the number obtain is also a perfect square. Find the solutions for this problem knowing that x is a natural number.

Thx

i know this isn't the help channel but maybe u can help me

[agile violet]

Is being smart associated w depression

[uncut mauve]

Having depression is associated with depression

[neat lintel]

Yes

Ignorance is bliss

[latent zodiac]

tried this with rudin. it’s been a week

[worn garnet]

/r/math has a good pdf regarding this on how to go about attacking rudin

[neat lintel]

been a week completing one chapter?

[old oak]

One chapter of Rudin in a week is pretty respectable tempo

[fickle stirrup]

Hey same!!!

do you know who might know what happened to it?

this one?
#advanced-lounge message

[latent zodiac]

just a joke

but

not too far from the truth

these practice problems have be doing gymnastics irl

[latent zodiac]

i looked at it, but i feel like getting hints to al the problems is cheating

if i dont understand something, ill just read the abbott's chapter on it

[old oak]

Yet again, the best way to read Rudin turns out to be "read a better book instead"

[latent zodiac]

nah the practice probems are unparallled

rudin just assumes that his readers are einstein sometimes 😭

[old oak]

Rudin assumes that his readers know analysis already

[latent zodiac]

fr

[old oak]

It's a very good book, it's just a not a very good book from which to learn analysis.

[latent zodiac]

😬

[old oak]

The exercises are very good, I agree

[latent zodiac]

i wish rudin was more like spviak

cuz its a hard book but at least there are worked out problems

[cunning plaza]

Most of the syllabuses that I've seen using Rudin: "here are a bunch of other references"

[fresh comet]

I'm looking for any excuse to post this again, and I've found one

[latent zodiac]

LOL

[fresh comet]

(yes I know this gets posted a lot)

but I find it very funny

so I wanna repost

[old oak]

That one deserves to be reposted a lot, so it's fine

[fresh comet]

what other books do you know of which of are the same vein

"Introduction to [something], but we assume you already know it"

[old oak]

A bit more specialized, but Glasner's "Ergodic Theory Via Joinings"

At least that one doesn't have "introduction" in the title

But it should only be read if you're already reasonably familiar with ergodic theory, and joinings.

[latent zodiac]

this is why we love #book-recommendations and the MAA review

[ripe needle]

You tried 80% of Rudin in a week?

[latent zodiac]

1 chapter??

[scarlet lark]

:lulwut: You might as well check my proof to laugh at it and make yourself feel good. :ahk:

[dry birch]

Says no access for me 😭

[neat lintel]

maybe because you have the pre-university role

Yeah, i changed to pre-university and it shows no access now

[upper glade]

im prob gonna have him for calc if i take it

[upper glade]

ive heard that his tests are IMPOSSIBLE

[neat lintel]

can't just do it online?

[upper glade]

wdym💀

[neat lintel]

In US you could probably just test out of it

[upper glade]

i cant

private school type shit

mine is weird

[neat lintel]

You sure?

If you got AP credits from taking the test they would still force you to take the class?

crazy school if they do

[vast surge]

Don't sugarcoat it - one chapter of Rudin a week is pretty fucking impressive. Most courses go at least one chapter every two weeks, ish.

[scarlet lark]

:whaaa: I took the AP Calc exam and we did not even have a class for it.

[neat lintel]

nice

[scarlet lark]

The most stressful 2-3 hours of my life.

💀

[fickle stirrup]

let me dm u it

[dry birch]

is this for the chemistry science server thinng i was tlaking about

[neat lintel]

go to id:customize and pres the undergraduate role

[dry birch]

👍

[dry birch]

yeah i was talking about that one too

[scarlet lark]

:lulwut: As math people, how do you deal with being a dumb frick and feeling scared that at some point it might be too hard for you to handle (not talking to the geniuses who are going to solve the one of the Millennium Problems)? Honestly the only way I relieve my stress is by telling myself that this is a hobby. But oh man I am going to uni this fall and it has been a fear that I might not be able to catch up if I fall behind.

[surreal bison]

@upper glade is that tamil in your bio?

[neat lintel]

By studying 16 hours a day

Also by not studying until a test or exam is due

If you study everything before its actually needed to know you might forget in the time between

procrastination is actually helpful in college somehow

[scarlet lark]

24-16 = 8, noice. But you still need to shower and eat.

[neat lintel]

can do all of those things while studying

[scarlet lark]

That is true.

[vivid halo]

wish this moron didn't block me so I could all of these posts

[scarlet lark]

I think best when I take a shower.

💀

[vivid halo]

what a silly take

[neat lintel]

I got an A in my linear algebra test so i'm happy

[scarlet lark]

isomorphic blocked you?

[neat lintel]

yeah, they're a meany

[vivid halo]

[scarlet lark]

Hmmm...

ngroupoid, what happened to kgroupoid.

[fair mural]

they block everyone don't worry

they probably blocked you too

[surreal bison]

dw i gotchu

i personally think blocking someone shouldn't prevent emotes, it should just result in "and 1 blocked emote" to the user that posted the message, along with an option in settings to just hide those altogether

[upper glade]

???

wym

[woven basalt]

its just some random characters 💀

[neat lintel]

๑ is a Thai number by the way

[surreal bison]

the language

has this orthography

you have the back mid long vowel oː ஓ

Tamil consonants[105]
Labial Dental Alveolar Retroflex Alveolo-palatal Velar Glottal
Nasal m ம் (n̪) ந் n ன் ɳ ண் ɲ ஞ் (ŋ) ங்
Stop/Affricate p ப் t̪ த் (tːr ற்ற) ʈ ட் t͡ɕ ~ t͡ʃ ச்5 k க்
Fricative (f)1 s5 ஸ் (z)1 (ʂ)1 ஷ் (ɕ)1 ஶ் (x)2 (h)2 ஹ்
Tap ɾ ர்
Trill r ற்
Approximant ʋ வ் ɻ ழ் j ய்
Lateral approximant l ல் ɭ ள்

/f/, /z/, /ʂ/ and /ɕ/ are only found in loanwords and may be considered marginal phonemes, though they are traditionally not seen as fully phonemic.
Monophthongs[106]
Front Central Back
short long short long short long
Close i இ iː ஈ u உ uː ஊ
Mid e எ eː ஏ o ஒ oː ஓ
Open ä அ äː ஆ

Tamil has two diphthongs: /aɪ̯/ ஐ and /aʊ̯/ ஔ, the latter of which is restricted to a few lexical items.

Tamil is an abugida, a special kind of alphabet. A consonant letter and a vowel letter combine to form one of the letters in the table

The triple dot thing (called the "aytam", pronounced "ak") is a special case that modifies letters by adding a dot

so for example

The language is called "தமிழ்"

the க் character is "ik", a pure consonant. க "ka") is க் "ik" with அ ("a")

ஆ is "aa"

[upper glade]

oops

[surreal bison]

so "thaa" is த் with அ, so த

[upper glade]

i didnt realize my bio had that stuff

[surreal bison]

and thus you get "tamil"

[upper glade]

should i remove it😭😭

[upper glade]

tamil kings bill wurtz real

[surreal bison]

ஓ is the doubled "o"

[surreal bison]

lol

It's a dravidian language

So, unlike Hindi it is not related to protoindoeurpean

(whereas, say, english and arabic (oh, arabic is a afroasiatic language) and latin and french and russian are)

The Sino-Tibetan family has Chinese

[upper glade]

i am so confused

[surreal bison]

how

anyways

[surreal bison]

why

just that I saw tamil and went "ooo"

i don't know tamil

but my family does

given that the non-American born (so, the not potentially future presidents), after all, come from Tamil Nadu

[odd narwhal]

@flat harbor a lot of genz slang is derived from aave

[jagged forge]

discuss

[latent edge]

aave?

[odd narwhal]

Also I don't think I've ever met a person that actually speaks with that much slang

African american vernacular english

[flat harbor]

oh yea ive heard abt that

[odd narwhal]

The dialect of english commonly spoken in african american communities

[flat harbor]

how finna is a genuine grammatical form in aave

[odd narwhal]

Yea

They have some cool grammatical features

The way they use "be" is really cool and doesn't have an analogue in other mainstream English dialects

[latent edge]

based sum a b giving
    yeet a + b
period

slay sum a ~~ b

[flat harbor]

its a shame that apparently theres 20 or smth accents in america

and i can only tell apart "north" and "south"

[latent edge]

oh and the yapp word

actual brainrot

[flat harbor]

a friend in canada like freaked out over this

"how can u not tell the difference between this minnesota and washington accent" idk i just cant

[fresh comet]

I didn't even know there were that many

[flat harbor]

right??

[fresh comet]

someone once told me I have a Bostonian accent

and I was like

[neat lintel]

bro graduated from the university with a B.S in yappology no cap frfr ngl 💀

[fresh comet]

like what does this even mean

[flat harbor]

well

ok like new Yorker Boston accent i can kinda tell

[jagged forge]

boston accent is one of the most famous and distinctive isnt it?

[neat lintel]

bro has minimal rizz aint no way vro 💀

[flat harbor]

but only in reference to the stereotypical im walking here one

i doubt real ppl speak like that

[fresh comet]

idk what the difference even is

[flat harbor]

right?

right? ?

[fresh comet]

what's interesting is that I have been to Boston before

[jagged forge]

i think people do speak like that

[latent edge]

yeah

[flat harbor]

real ppl dont Pizza pie Tony in life right??

[fresh comet]

it's the only place in the US I've been to

[flat harbor]

dam. im glad i grew up watching british stuff

[neat lintel]

vro sussing bussing ngl frfr no cap 💀

[latent edge]

succ you okay?

[neat lintel]

no

[flat harbor]

i feel like ive felt no accent in cali

the english is pretty uhh

hollywood standard

[flat harbor]

wuld u like a moment of chat

[neat lintel]

im finna drip vro ngl W moment frfr

[fresh comet]

I don't know anything you're saying here

go back to mimicking a waterloo student please

[neat lintel]

vro he is THE GOAT frfr ngl W moment no cap vro

[latent edge]

wtf

I left my uni discord server just so that I don't see that kind of talking style

[neat lintel]

this aint it chief

[fresh comet]

how are you so fluent in the zoomer language

[jagged forge]

ive taken a liking to the zoomer memes and slang

[fresh comet]

where did you learn this

[flat harbor]

the zoomer vocab is kinda like 10 words

[jagged forge]

particularly ive been consuming many jjk memes the past months

[flat harbor]

so i think u can duolingo it in a day tbh

[neat lintel]

yeah not bad

vro higher has the npc vibes aint no way that's capping vro

[fresh comet]

I do think I'm an NPC tbh

[flat harbor]

suh gang shit bb fr fr

[fresh comet]

frfr is one of the only slangs that I understand and can agree with lol

[neat lintel]

situationship moment frfr

[fresh comet]

it's pretty useful frfr

[neat lintel]

sksksk

that slaps af

[flat harbor]

omg sksksksk was a thing

[latent edge]

I'm developing a brain tumor from succ's dialogue

[flat harbor]

im old and crusty and THINK i miss vine

but i think the blood vessels that popped back then kinda dims the bad bad memories

[neat lintel]

deltoid finna act like the main character

go search top 7 GYAT online bro no cap it slaps

[fresh comet]

istg

[neat lintel]

ok I'm done with the brainrot

sorry guys

[fresh comet]

good

I was half on my way to blocking you

(jk)

I think I actually lost some braincells though

[flat harbor]

its hilarious cause it actually hurts

[latent edge]

the fuck is GYAT

[neat lintel]

google it

[flat harbor]

u can watch like

[fresh comet]

I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to know some of this slang or smth

since some of my peers used them quite often in hs

[latent edge]

I regret looking it up

lost some braincells

[flat harbor]

a 20 gen alpha brainrot slang explained video

like ohio fanum tax rizzler gyatt

[neat lintel]

frfr

[fresh comet]

tbf, not all of gen z/alpha are like this

plenty of them aren't

[flat harbor]

sure

[neat lintel]

stop capping bro

[flat harbor]

of course the gen z alpha says this

[flat harbor]

coming back for more brainrot

[fresh comet]

meh, I always felt disconnected with my gen anyways

I never talk to people

wait... bloe

aren't you gen z too?

[flat harbor]

idk

[fresh comet]

last time I checked, the gen started in like

[flat harbor]

in korea the gens are mixed together as "mz"

[fresh comet]

1996-1998

[fresh comet]

oh I see

[flat harbor]

i hate listening to ppl argue abt when generations start and end

out of all the identity politics discourse this has to be the only one thats actually meaningless

[fresh comet]

yeah I agree

[neat lintel]

liberal moment

[fresh comet]

if people were born all at once every 20 years then I'd get it

[neat lintel]

ngl fr

[flat harbor]

"im born in 2013 so im technically gen z" shut the fuck up please shut the fuck up

[fresh comet]

tbf

it doesn't bother me if people talk about it either

I'm just indifferent to it

[latent edge]

you say ngl fr I say (∞,1)-category of (∞,1)-presheaves with values in ∞Grpd, such that the left adjoint (∞,1)-functor (.)– the ∞-stackification operation – is left exact

[flat harbor]

fencesitters will not survive the culture war

[neat lintel]

algebraic geometry slang

sotrue

[fresh comet]

I've survived everything so far

[flat harbor]

its gonna get so much worse

[fresh comet]

meh

I'm not convinced

[flat harbor]

better clench ur ass... big ones comin

[neat lintel]

fr ngl

bussing sussing

[latent edge]

You gotta chill with that brainrot speak before I start losing brain cells fam

[neat lintel]

lezzz goo deltoid using gen z

[jagged forge]

sussy baka

[latent edge]

my honest reaction

ayo chief() yo
    fr c finna 4 rn
    yapping("%ld \n", c) rn
    deadass 0 rn 💀

@neat lintel @jagged forge

[jagged forge]

bruh yapping is printf 💀

[velvet abyss]

nitpicky but arent defines supposed to be in reverse-

[latent edge]

yes

[latent edge]

it works

it outputs 4

[neat lintel]

LMFAO

[proud olive]

Wow I actually understand what is going on now

[undone patrol]

hello

[sonic sentinel]

sum of integers from 0 to n inclusive is approximately $\frac{n^2}{2}$

[fathom swallow]

alshfik (ő/هو)

[proud olive]

Not everything has to be approximated

[north topaz]

Yeah and the sum of i^2 from 0 to n inclusive is approximately n^3/6

What you get when you integrate n^2/2 dn

The pattern holds for i^k where k is an integer

[sonic sentinel]

the joke is that it looks bad/weird

[neat lintel]

Is fam a shorthand for famine?

[eager ledge]

I’m almost sure it’s not. I think it’s a term to address someone. But I’m not fluent in Discord slang.

[neat lintel]

I was joking, it refers to a close person who you consider a family member or anything of the same equivalence

[eager ledge]

Oops.

[chilly willow]

with reference to the Lorenz System, what is the Chen System??

[gusty pelican]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_number#:~:text=Stirling numbers express coefficients in,the Pochhammer symbol)%20as%20polynomials.&text=with%20(signed)%20Stirling%20numbers%20of%20the%20first%20kind%20as%20coefficients.&text=for%20the%20rising%20factorial%20are%20also%20often%20used.

I never thought I would strikethrough a link in my life lol

[north topaz]

nice

[scarlet lark]

How is University as a Math Major? :lulwut:

What would you like to change or keep?

🤨

[solid yarrow]

Terrible great

[scarlet lark]

[north topaz]

Undergrad is nice so far

[neat lintel]

in general or in the particular program i did?

[scarlet lark]

the latter.

[neat lintel]

number theory shouldn't be optional and there should be a pure math dynamics course

[cunning plaza]

As in, elementary number theory or more advanced number theory requiring algebra plus analysis?

[neat lintel]

elementary number theory

[cunning plaza]

Seems that's optional at a lot of places, and I guess you're expected to just uh pick it up in Abstract Algebra

[rocky shuttle]

why shouldn't it be optional?

[neat lintel]

because my algebra class was bad and i'm wishing i had taken it

students here get very little in their first two years

i think there should be more options there

(the dynamics class was also bad)

[proven knoll]

how do math majors even make cash

there are only 2 job positions i see

teaching and research

[glass peak]

Sounds a lot like my course, you do basically nothing in your first 2 years and it makes the next 2-3 kinda a mess, and the algebra class is dog shit

Luckily (for other people not me I guess) in the next year or 2 the curriculum is getting overhauled and people should actually be doing things in the first couple of years which will make the later classes either less shit or less intense

[cunning plaza]

The algebra class I'm currently in just assumes students are familiar with congruences and congruence classes, which I dunno I think that's not easy to just pick up quickly for the average person, even if it's an elementary topic. Thankfully I studied the material beforehand. Of course, if the algebra class does teach number theory then there's no issue.

[glass peak]

You don’t need to be directly using maths, you learn a lot of desirable skills other than just a bunch of theorems. The ability to think critically and logically is highly desirable everywhere, but especially in finance and software positions, which is where a lot of maths students end up

[rocky shuttle]

What does number theory entail that's so important that it should be mandatory for all math majors?

[old oak]

We need as many people working on Collatz as possible

[glass peak]

We will finish that arg

[ripe needle]

You forgot industry. Many companies hire math majors for many different positions. They often make decent money even with just a bachelor's degree.

[old oak]

Yeah, it's just the job title usually isn't "mathematician"; it's "data scientist", "data analyst", "risk analyst", anything to do with statistics, and also a lot of jobs in the general software area you can apply for with a math degree

[latent edge]

Hire me

Did you guys know that you can make decent heuristic methods via analytic number theory regarding Collatz?

[raven plaza]

Does one have to study statistics instead of math tho

[cunning plaza]

Good point. For applied math majors, that probably shouldn't be a requirement. I think I might just be a bit critical of the abstract algebra course at my school, which does not require elementary number theory as a prerequisite but assumes that you are comfortable with congruences. I was lucky to go into that class knowing that stuff, but some are less fortunate.

[old oak]

I mean, mathematical statistics are a branch of mathematics as far as I'm concerned

[rocky shuttle]

Admittedly, I don't know what's considered as typical in an elementary number theory course, as I have never taken that course. I do think that congruences and basic statements, such as the Chinese remainder theorem, should be known to all kinds of mathematician. But those are the topics that I have learned in an introductory abstract algebra course, not particularly related to number theory.

[neat lintel]

i love starting arguments and leaving

[rocky shuttle]

and coming back to say this

[fresh comet]

what did you start

[fresh comet]

oh this?

[neat lintel]

[rocky shuttle]

so, if your algebra class was alright, there's no need to take elementary number theory?

[neat lintel]

yes

[fresh comet]

from what I’ve heard

the ENT class this semester has been run pretty badly

so it’s a gamble either way lmao

[neat lintel]

that class is typically awful

i was serious about dynamics but the number theory thing was a half joke

[fresh comet]

I see

[surreal sapphire]

instead you should take a non elementary nt class

[fresh comet]

I don’t think I’ll be doing the ENT course

[surreal sapphire]

or some form of geometry

[neat lintel]

algebraic and analytic number theory are offered in alternating years here

algebraic one year, analytic the next

[surreal sapphire]

sad

you should make one class for both

and study number fields

[neat lintel]

i took analytic and it sucked. i was actually really excited to take algebraic but i had to drop it for reasons

[fresh comet]

oof

[neat lintel]

reasons = there were a lot of people i didn't like in the course

[surreal sapphire]

thats the big utility of nt, mixing algebraic and analytic techniques

[fresh comet]

peers?

[surreal sapphire]

geometry can do the same

and its neglected in early math classes

for good reason mind you

but you should see some interplay of different fields during your degree

math classes can create this view of different fields being insular

[fervent pebble]

higher level nt courses can provide environments for students to piece together previously disparate information and things they've learned in order to solve problems

and i do think everyone should know some basic ent

mandatory is a bit much tho

[rocky shuttle]

what's considered basic ent?

[silver prawn]

collatz is true because it would be stupid if it wasn't

[rocky shuttle]

collatz is false because otherwise the torus wouldn't have been back

[fresh comet]

I can't counter this argument

[cinder zephyr]

Collatz is false because it'd be funny if it was

[old oak]

Yeah, it would be great if it turned out some ludicrously large number actually has an unbounded sequence

Or probably even better, that there's exactly one loop very far out there, and every other number does hit 1 eventually

[oblique prawn]

Yoo, does anyone have a good latex template for research proposals?

[karmic goblet]

I would highly recommend anyone who wants to eventually specialise in statistics to lean more towards modules offered by a statistics department than modules offered by a mathematics department as I find the approach and subject matter very different. At least at the university where I studied, the approach taken to statistics was very different to the approach taken within the mathematics institute. Other universities might take a more mathematical approach to statistics than was taken by my university.

[neat lintel]

what

shouldnt it just be math

[old oak]

In my country most universities don't even have such a thing as a statistics department, prospective statisticians enroll at departments of mathematics.

[karmic goblet]

It might just be my university where the mathematics institute was founded with a leaning towards topology and the statistics department was distinct at that time from the mathematics institute. I was luckily quite good at that level with earlier education in probability and statistics but I found many of my math peers to struggle somewhat. I wonder how many of us here could give a reasonable explanation of what ANOVA is.

[old oak]

It's definitely just your university

Or at least I think it's not the typical situation

[latent edge]

My ENT class in my uni is awful

I should teach it fr

[fresh comet]

I think you could do a pretty good job

[latent edge]

Opportunities...

afaik only phd students can do it

[karmic goblet]

Other things mathematicians could consider explaining is Bayesian statistics, random variables, likelihood testing, and the design of experiments.

I have no doubt the majority of mathematicians have the ability to specialise in statistics, but I've usually found math majors to significantly lack the inclination to learn much about statistics unless forced.

My experience was also that peers specialising in statistics were less interested in mathematical abstraction and results less amenable to application.

It's quite possible my experience has been an outlier compared to experiences others might report.

[old oak]

That is what mathematicians explain, those are mathematical concepts. The mathematicians who don't explain that are bad at teaching statistics.

[karmic goblet]

If 10% of us here could give a reasonable explanation of what ANOVA is, I would be impressed.

[old oak]

I probably couldn't from memory because I haven't done it in like 20 years but I studied mathematical statistics and we definitely discussed ANOVA extensively.

[latent edge]

I'm really bad at stats

Not my proudest point

gotta relearn stats during the semester because this semester was just dry and unmotivated

the prof didn't bother explaining anything

All what emphasized on is memorizing for the final

[fresh comet]

I should really learn stats before I graduate

but I'm not sure if I should take an actual class on it

[tropic mica]

why do i ahve this

role called not very ppl

what does it mean

[fresh comet]

that role gets rid of any username with colour

for example, if I take the role, my username color goes from green to white again

[tropic mica]

ahh

[neat lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-control-mkultra-cat-cat-grabbed-attack-gif-3791628660102132848

@tender tulip

[fervent pebble]

think like mods, gcd, basic prime facts, a bit of working w sqaurefrees, reciprocity

[sonic sentinel]

im going to fail all the calculator questions for ap calc 😭

i had like a 3 hour long study session with my friend yesterday and maybe fives times out of ten we failed a calculator question because we didn't put in the equation from the question correctly

[sonic sentinel]

does this not hurt the cat???

[sonic sentinel]

like i get if they're petting the cat by the face but that looks more like a forceful shake

[river moon]

no, it doesn't

[sonic sentinel]

elaborate please?

[river moon]

they just start moving in every direction and punching you with their back feet so it looks like you're shaking it by applying force on the face

but in reality you could be just gently touching

[sonic sentinel]

ah k

[summer sail]

yo, launching an ai tool for math/science soon https://bloon.ai

[ripe needle]

A lot of the US is still like this too

[glass peak]

Yeah there’s just a stats group within my unis maths department, quite a few people in biostats and more generally mathematical biology which seems quite cool

I mean as cool as stats really can be anyway, there’s only so many regressions a man can take

[neat lintel]

Delete this

[ripe needle]

That's funny. Ours is also filled with biostats professors lmao

The degree is under the math department but a lot of the professors are in biology department

For the stats PhD

For undergrad it's only a bachelor's in math, but you take stats and prob

[summer sail]

?

[karmic goblet]

Statistics is considerably more than regression!

[glass peak]

Yeah I know lol, my best friend does stats and I deal with his ramblings, but the number of regressions I can deal with is too low to get to any of that stuff

[loud snow]

What is that number

[glass peak]

Roughly 0

Stats was the most boring class I’ve ever taken, I fully believe that there’s interesting stuff happening in stats at a higher level, but it just doesn’t really do it for me

[loud snow]

Remember to be open minded

[glass peak]

I think you’re taking the things I’m saying far too seriously

[neat lintel]

this is 90% of the server

[glass peak]

I also said that there’s definitely interesting things happening in stats

[glass peak]

I’m aware, people should work under the pretense that 90% of what I say is hyperbole

[ripe needle]

Was it the general like non- math major stats everyone takes such as psych majors or was it a proof/ calculus math major stats class

[glass peak]

The later, my uni doesn’t offer the former

[ripe needle]

90% of what I say is shitpost but too many people take it literal

[glass peak]

There’s about 250 people doing just maths here which is apparently way more than the average US course size, they couldn’t roll other degrees in

[ripe needle]

Oh okay then valid opinion

[glass peak]

The only exceptions are first year calc and LA which are taken by compsci students

And those are HUGE

But they’re also scrapping calculus so I guess that’ll change

[ripe needle]

Yeah I think first semester calc is 500+ student classes then by third semester it's closer to 30-50

[fresh comet]

the calculus courses for biology students here have like 2700 students enrolled lmao

[ripe needle]

There's a general stats class, super basic and only requiring HS math hosted by the psych department but everyone who needs stats that isn't a math major has to take. Like even nursing students take it.

Then the math major stats class is a senior level course

[fresh comet]

the ones for the cs/physics/finance/etc students have about 1600 enrolled

[glass peak]

Yeah only my mathematical physics classes were ever that small, because only people on that sub-degree took those

I think next year when I’ll have some pretty specialised and topics courses ill maybe be down to that size again but the average course here is around 100-250 students

[fresh comet]

and the ones for the math people have about 350

[neat lintel]

getting to the last few years and having much smaller class sizes was such a treat

[glass peak]

I’m very glad my uni is scrapping calc though because we went to highschool, why are we doing this again

[ripe needle]

One of my senior level classes had like 12 students and it was awesome.

[fresh comet]

hopefully I'll get there in one piece

[glass peak]

So they’re just doing analysis from the get go now which is the right call

[glass peak]

Yeah I do miss my tiny classes from mathphys, although the final years of mathphys typically have 3-8 people on a course so that’d maybe be too small

Or it’d be really cool, hard to say because I noped the fuck out of that, stuff was hellish

[prime narwhal]

You mentioned mathematical biology. This discipline is interdisciplinary and is associated with a relatively new scientific direction: synergetics (author: German scientist Hermann Haken). The science of synergetics is no less interesting.

[alpine comet]

It's discussion-2, not serious-2. Kinda non-reasonable to expect anything serious here

[tawdry pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-biscuit-biscuits-not-to-get-political-gif-26544874

[visual breach]

Still more serious than #discussion and #math-discussion , sometimes even more than #advanced-lounge

[icy locust]

Irreproducible result

[harsh sand]

is it possible to do an masters in engineering having a math bachelors?

[tender tulip]

pi-lambda theorem
sounds complicated as fuck
literally follows instantly from definitions

D contains all the countable unions of that pi, and you can use de Morgan’s to have your countable intersections

[old oak]

That's not quite the proof.

[old oak]

The sigma-algebra benerated by pi doesn't just consist of countable unions and intersections of sets from pi

[tender tulip]

Oh shit yeah, good point,

though you just need to show it contains a sigma algebra containing P

[old oak]

Yes

[neat lintel]

I'm complaining

If they wont fix, i'm filing an complaint. istg

[tender tulip]

I don’t think you need choice for this, I assume not

[north topaz]

They probably just want the final answer

That's typical with WebWork / Mobius / these online platforms

[old oak]

It's been a while since I've seen the proof but I don't think so.

[north topaz]

Cause their input systems can't cover everything

[neat lintel]

Its manually graded by the teacher

wtf is this

[tender tulip]

My instinct was to find a maximal pairwise disjoint subfamily of P immediately but that’s choice-y. Assuming the total intersection isn’t empty

[neat lintel]

did i do this wrong? why did i did partial credit

[tender tulip]

Though I think the Dynkin system generated by P is a sigma algebra though

[old oak]

Two hints: 1. ||A family of sets is a sigma-algebra if and only if it's simultaneously a pi-system and a Dynkin system||. 2. ||Thus, it's enough to show that the D-system generated by your original pi-system is also a pi-system||

Yep, that's basically one of my two hints

[river moon]

it looks closed under vector addition

idk why it says it fails all 3

[tender tulip]

I don’t see why “relative” complements are necessary for the definition I’m pretty sure the theorem would hold for just, closure under absolute complements

[river moon]

if two vectors have their first coordinates positive and second coordinates negative, then their sum would also have first component positive and second negative

[neat lintel]

Bruh, I got a 100% on my linear algebra test but they took points off for problems i got right

I'm murdering someone at 2am

I've lost it

[tender tulip]

Appending closure under pairwise intersection too in combination with Demorgan’s basically hands you countable intersections lol

[old oak]

Not quite.

A D-system is only closed under specific types of unions

Not arbitrary countable unions

[tender tulip]

Well, what I mean is if you have a countable union, and closure under pairwise intersections, I assume you can inductively “strip” your countable union down into a union of disjoint sets, which you can then inductively build into a countable (or finite) union

[old oak]

Well, yeah, if you have intersections, so if you add the pi-system property, then yeah

[tender tulip]

I guess the role of intersections and unions can be swapped as long as the empty set is in the system

Gonna try to formalize that argument

[old oak]

That tends to be a good idea in mathematics

I"m off to work, good luck with that

[tender tulip]

Pairwise intersections + complement closure => pairwise unions (demorgan’s)

If you have a sequence A_n, you can construct a chain-sequence B_n inductively by B_0 = A_0, B_{n + 1} = B_n union B_{n + 1}. This union can exist, thus we have countable unions. We also have uncountable intersections via Demorgan’s too

[vale plover]

https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/37389/user-david-c-ullrich-and-long-time-sci-math-participant-died-22-march-2024?cb=1

@sharp cave

[peak tide]

oh shit, sorry to hear this

[sonic sentinel]

the correct present tense of lmao is ling mao

[neat lintel]

The past sure is tense

[old oak]

And the future isn't perfect

[neat lintel]

But does it belong to you

[old oak]

Some of it does, some of it doesn't

[sonic sentinel]

lmao rning

[ruby island]

What strategy or resources can I use to learn high-school level maths without consuming material intended for high school students? I enjoy reading college-level math texts as they're typically much more foucsed on understanding and intuition, but for more elementary maths I'm missing in my knowledge all I can find is high school material, and the way high schools teach math prioritizes memorizing formulas and stupid mnemonics like "rise over run, SOH CAH TOA" since their target audience is an average student trying to pass an exam. I hate channels such as Khan academy and Organic Chemistry Tutor (the only good math channels I've found are Eddie Woo and 3blue1brown).

Right now I am attempting to understand linear "y = mx + b", but am only finding high-school oriented resources that again just throw unmotivated formulas at me. Any recommendations?

[river moon]

you're not going to find that because it's not taught in the highschool that way

if you find some formula unmotivated then try to derive it yourself or search for the proof

[ruby island]

Are you saying it's not taught in an intuiton/discovery focused way, or it is not taught in a regurgitation cram-exam-for-grades type of what like I am claiming

cause I distinctly remember every single math class I took from grades 1-12 being the latter

[river moon]

the former

at least not in a random US highschool that doesn't specialize on math and such

[ruby island]

yeah it seems there is a massive gap in quality educational material for elementary math

no one is making resources that focus on high school level topics, but for students who love math and have analytical brains and dont want the traditional HS approach

its all just khan academy clones.

(except for eddie woo and a few others)

[river moon]

there is, but also most of the students are just not ready for a university level kind of thinking

the point is that if you search for something you can find it most likely

you'll be learning similarly to people who participate in math olympiads, etc

they don't have a specific book on their hands

[ruby island]

sure. but there are students like me who are now adults and are self taught programmers and already know some uni math like a set theory and proofs and some trig from game dev. So it is very frustrating for me to have to sit through these resources that frankly feel insulting to my intelligence with the way they approach teaching.

I just need to learn the math i am missing without being treated like a 15 year old

very niche target audience i guess

not economically worthwhile for people to make textbooks for that sort of person

[ruby island]

so where do I look

i normally go to google scholar and find some good papers on the math subject im interested in

but thats for the college level stuff

[river moon]

just the web

there should be plenty of more advanced websites that cover some parts of the material in this way

[proven knoll]

read calculus textbooks, they should have basic high school revisions on the first chapters

[leaden torrent]

if you want a text on high school-level mathematics written in a style reminiscent of undergraduate mathematics texts, consider Serge Lang's basic mathematics

[ruby island]

Yes thank you

[leaden torrent]

or just read wikipedia articles lmao

but thats not really great for actually learning

[ruby island]

i prefer wikipedia articles but only once I know enough of the literature to understand most terminology

otherwise every 5th word is some other wiki entry that i am also unfamiliar with

[sharp cave]

Damnn.. his book on Complex analysis and his answers on MSE really helped me in my undergrad years. Sad to hear that he passed away and that I couldn't get an opportunity to meet him.

[slow jewel]

What is the difference between a formal inference proof and an english proof?

[surreal bison]

i think it's great for the early level

it's how i learned multivariable calculus

[tropic mica]

did anyone see eclipse today

[tawdry pecan]

It was cool, I guess

[neat lintel]

it got very dark where i was, but not 100%

it was pretty cool

lots of people were outside

[neat lintel]

I have a feeling we're gonna hear about people having eyesight issues in a few days lol

the eclipse was set up by big optometry

[neat lintel]

Do not look down on it either

[tropic mica]

me who stared at it

[zealous garden]

I looked up at it

I'm fine

[cinder zephyr]

safety squints

[zealous garden]

Oh no my eye is blurry

I know this feeling, it's at 92% health

[neat lintel]

I heard it's takes a few days for the damage to show

[cinder zephyr]

💀 I actually hope no one looked at it directly

[neat lintel]

[cinder zephyr]

relevant moment from 2017 eclipse over US

[neat lintel]

Knowing how people are

[cinder zephyr]

safety squints in full effect there

[neat lintel]

It's takes like 2 seconds for permanent damage

I believe

[zealous garden]

I looked back in 2017 too

or was it 2016

[neat lintel]

2017

[zealous garden]

never had any damage then

safety squints are effective

[neat lintel]

You looked directly at it no googles (not totality)?

Dang

i used to look at the sun directly when i was a kid

[zealous garden]

yes, both times

[zealous garden]

yes

[neat lintel]

one of my eyes sees bad i wonder if its because of that

[neat lintel]

You sure? You might just not notice it

Your brain is good at hiding damage

[raven plaza]

Brains are surprisingly good at hiding deficiencies

From the owner of the brain at least

[loud snow]

Nah we are built differently

I stared at eclipse and couldnt see for 4 minutes

Slight damage to my vision

[mint torrent]

HI

[twilit parrot]

Hi guys

The eclipse today is my pfp

[dawn oasis]

Very nice

[dire glen]

hey I'm beginning to study fourier series. I've watched some videos and computed the formula for the square wave

first of all, i don't understand how someone could come up with such an idea, what sort of super humans..

I've seen one explanation that give me an intuition of why the fomula it is what it is

at least, why the formula for the coefficients is what it is. I understand it's something similar to the convolution integral, but here i am not shifting any function, i'm just multiplying them

and in the video they were using the word "correlation" which reminds me something in statistics

is there a name for this type of operation? is it indeed correlation?

in statistics, was not intended in the form of an integral (or at least i don't remember it that way)

[proud olive]

No pain no gain

Not familiar with the word correlation when it comes to Fourier series

[old oak]

https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2024/04/08/eye-pain-google-trends-1712611230414.png

[proud olive]

Cross correlation theorem sounds familiar to how convolution is the same as multiplying in the frequency domain

[zealous garden]

No it isn't

Maybe yours is

[digital galleon]

Not his brightest moment

[neat lintel]

the eclipse was invented by eye doctors to make them money

[glass peak]

https://tenor.com/view/mrburnssu-mrburnssun-gif-22510204

[crisp seal]

How does the moon cut his hair? Eclipse it!

[spare ginkgo]

moon has definitely more than 40 years that's the tea

[icy void]

What is best major if hate writing and looking attain high paying jobs

Can math, statistics or physics land me high paying jobs

[latent edge]

Medicine

Especially if your country has the premed system

Gotta love it

[ripe needle]

An extreme amount of writing

[latent edge]

[daring parrot]

Took 2 gap years after high school and im lookin to pursue a math major. What can i study to get ready? Last class i took was pre calculus in high school

[cunning plaza]

Are you in university currently?

[daring parrot]

Nope

Gap year

[cunning plaza]

Ah okay. Next course would be Calculus for you. You could try learning Calculus now, or if you want to brush up on Precalculus then maybe do that (people often recommend Lang's Basic Mathematics here for that).

[native cove]

Are there any other child prodigies, I'm 14 and teaching myself odes but I want to skip grades and go to college but don't know how. Also kinda lonely.

[solid snow]

did you just call yyourself a child prodigy

[native cove]

No but I did heavily imply it.

[vernal token]

but don't know how

Depends on your country

[neat lintel]

Did you just fucking call yourself a child prodigy?

[long matrix]

im an adult prodigy

[long matrix]

@solar hawk i dont know why, but i think this is worth pinging you for some reason

[latent edge]

I learned all calculus, real and complex analysis, abstract algebra and topology in high school and still didn't get the chance to skip schools simply because it's not possible in my country. I'm no way a child progidy tho it's just pure passion

[native cove]

You sound like a prodigy though, when did you learn calc

[ripe needle]

Thats not how the world works. Welcome to the real world.

FYI you can enroll in college at any time, there's no age or school requirement. Your parents can enroll you

[fresh comet]

no number theory?

[latent edge]

That is included in AA

I did learn a bit of analytic number theory like at the end of my HS career

[solar hawk]

Ask Jay how bad I am at ODES

[neat lintel]

Is that how can someone say they are progidy in a smart way?

[latent edge]

sully

[solar hawk]

Deltoid just said they are a prodigy

Deltoid prolly busted ass to do all that

[native cove]

Are there any other kids like me, it's pretty lonely

[solar hawk]

Ain’t no way bro just called himself a prodigy

I’m actually dead

[fresh comet]

there are definitely a lot of teenagers here who are obssessed with math

idt any of them call themselves prodigies though

[solid snow]

Its lonely why?

[solar hawk]

None of them do 💀Iv not seen a single one

[solid snow]

You can talk to people about things other than math

[neat lintel]

I think most people here are progidies

[native cove]

I have no friends because I can't connect with anybody

[neat lintel]

Skill issue

[solar hawk]

Maybe cuz you call yourself a prodigy

[fresh comet]

okay but, this is not helpful

[latent edge]

I hate this phrase

[solar hawk]

mature hgr

[fresh comet]

???

[latent edge]

Gen Z is falling behind in skills needed to enter the workforce. Some experts say the pandemic hindered the younger generation's development of soft skills. To overcome this, experts suggest companies offer training.

[solar hawk]

What’s a soft skill

[latent edge]

communications

[solar hawk]

Communications is useless

[latent edge]

comapnies offer training

[solar hawk]

Just make noises

[latent edge]

mfw when companies reject everyone

[solar hawk]

They will understand.

dolphin sounds