serious-discussion

[delicate tide]

which i said earlier

[sonic wind]

...ok so if we take R^3 and remove all points <= 1 away from the origin

that's a spherical hole

is that hole 4th dimensional?

[delicate tide]

the hole is spherical

it's 3D

but you don't seem to get the point

it's a hole

[sonic wind]

...so if not all spherical holes are 4D, what distinguishes a black hole from other spherical holes

also i still don't really understand in what sense a black hole is a "hole"

[delicate tide]

a black hole is literally a hole in spacetime

[sonic wind]

as in there aren't any points of spacetime inside the black hole?

[delicate tide]

I don't know about that

[sonic wind]

ok what is a hole in spacetime then

[delicate tide]

On second thought you might be right with this

[sonic wind]

well there are definitely spacetime points inside the black hole

so if that's what a "hole in spacetime" is, a black hole isn't a hole

[delicate tide]

A black hole isn't a hole?

[sonic wind]

a black hole isn't a hole

...by this definition of hole

it might be a hole by some other definition of "hole" that you haven't said, but it's not a hole by the definition of "something is a hole if it doesn't contain any points"

[delicate tide]

For a long time i believed black holes are actually holes in a spherical form

[sonic wind]

they aren't

the thing that makes a black hole "black" is that there are no paths out of it

if you're inside a black hole, you will continue being inside the black hole however fast you move, even if you're moving at the speed of light

[delicate tide]

Well that changes everything

Tbh i'm left more confused now

I'm reading 2 different articles

One is saying black holes are holes, and the other is saying black holes arent

[visual breach]

You don't mean I fail at conveying a joke right

[plain owl]

I've seen some very wild takes today and yesterday, so my "benefit of the doubt" meter is running low

nothing personal

[visual breach]

Sorry for missing /j, I thought an italic was enough.

[zealous garden]

A blackhole is where a spacelike direction becomes timelike, and vice versa

The singularity becomes equivalent to a big crunch in your future, rather than a point ahead of you. This flow is now as irresistible as the forward flow of time

[gritty totem]

yeah

although to make it more precise please just lookup a penrose diagram

[ocean harbor]

henlo

[split pawn]

Hi

[wary stone]

I have a story. There was this one time I had got into a bad fight in public and was beat up in front of other people, even people I knew personally. And the girl who did it apologized, but I told her I didn't forgive her. Cuz you don't put your hands on someone and embarrass them, and physically and emotionally scar them..and expect forgiveness.

[split pawn]

Uhm...

[ocean harbor]

I'm going back to sleep

[split pawn]

Oki eepy Akira

[ocean harbor]

I felt bad sleeping at 3am

Because of that coffee

[wary stone]

uhmmm...

[split pawn]

So uh

[split pawn]

How do you want me to react

[eager reef]

Why did you randomly put this here

[sonic sentinel]

School feels like those unrealistic plans you make when you want to change your life but you're actually forced to do it (instead of doing it a few days and realizing the idea sucked).

It feels like the design philosophy was some guy thought to himself "if you teach children for x hours a day for just n days of the year you would have such a high number of hours studied by the time they graduate!"

there's so much time that's just not spent studying

like of course you're gonna have some percentage of time that's not spent studying regardless of the system you set up (due to say need to collect materials or human error)

but with trying to teach kids a few periods in a row the teachers are essentially forced to make breaks during class time

[dense belfry]

School dumb

[dense hornet]

Truth

[fervent flame]

this is deep, thanks for sharing

[glad phoenix]

The Bible says otherwise, for your own good, if you don’t forgive you are hurting yourself only

[solid snow]

have you considered the possibility that not everyone believes in the bible

[glad phoenix]

I don’t blame you. Just mediate on the fact what not forgiving does in your heart and if it’s worth it to hold unto

[solid snow]

there's people i haven't forgiven and i don't lose sleep over it

doesn't affect me at all

[glad phoenix]

Well it has to, because not forgiving is a mental state.

But I won’t try to change your mind

[tame egret]

[tame egret]

🤣

[vast surge]

The Bible also says a bunch of homophobic shit, and "blessed is he who takes your infants and dashes their skulls upon the rocks". I'm not sure if I'd take it to be any kind of moral authority.

I get all my morality from 120 Days of Sodom; probably the best book to draw good, ethical behaviour from.

[tame egret]

fr?

[vast surge]

Of course! The Duc de Blangis is a paragon of good, virtuous behaviour.

[tame egret]

never seen "blessed is he who takes your infants and dashes their skulls upon the rocks" in my life

[vast surge]

Psalms 137:9

[tame egret]

lmao reading psalms can be tricky David spoke in parables

read it carefully

[tame egret]

oh David said:
Babylon, you are doomed! I pray the Lord's blessings on anyone who punishes you for what you did to us.

then

May the Lord bless everyone who beats your children against the rocks!

he was angry with babylon

[vast surge]

And advocated murdering children.

[tame egret]

David( I ) WAS ANGRY

[zealous garden]

Makes sense to me

[tame egret]

hi wraith

[zealous garden]

Do I know you David

Hey!

[tame egret]

maybe

[zealous garden]

How do you know Amukh

I learned Amukh just be adding people

[tame egret]

javascript 😅

[zealous garden]

Lmfao

God this guy pings me every time, I (unironically) love it

You all could learn a thing or two from David

[tame egret]

ikr he also added someone who was randomly sending friend reqs

[cedar idol]

I ping you!

[zealous garden]

Steve has pinged me every time he has spoken to me

Good job steve

[tame egret]

thanks wraith!

[cedar idol]

I have!

[muted totem]

Are there any core undergrad geometry courses? I'm not sure if general topology falls under "geometry", and undergrad diff geo doesn't seem to be pushed as hard as the big algebra and analysis courses

[deep mango]

not really

topology basically falls under geometry honestly

[muted totem]

Oh nice

[deep mango]

but yeah the really undergrad topics are like, classical differential geometry and general topology + little bit of algebraic topology

[gritty totem]

algebra and analysis both used in diff geo so no surprise

[deep mango]

And then "extra topics" which are reasonable to learn would be differential topology / manifolds, some classical algebraic geometry, and more advanced algebraic topology

sometimes schools do a class in "classical geometry" (like planar geometry and then the noneuclidean geometries of the 1800s) but these aren't super useful for most people

[gritty totem]

up until the logic department pulls up

[deep mango]

ya i just mean from the perspective of an undergrad taking classes in x and y and z for purposes of culture

[gritty totem]

altho the core is pretty much always the same material

[deep mango]

like as long as you learn some point set + algtop then i don't think you need to bother with the curves and surfaces diffgeo stuff

which most people find annoying

the manifolds stuff is better

[pulsar pagoda]

@deep mango https://sites.google.com/view/luca-heltai/home

this is the numerical analyst

for the master I was talking to u about

[gritty totem]

wait

what is curves and surfaces even about?

[deep mango]

oh i almost thought it said hentai

[deep mango]

do you know any riemannian geometry?

[pulsar pagoda]

[deep mango]

books like do carmo differential geometry (which is an undergrad book) cover basic 1 and 2 dimensional riemannian geometry

[gritty totem]

i know some lingo but nothing to prove anything

[muted totem]

Are curves and surfaces subsumed by more general diff geo or is that kind of course a bit of a dead end in the prereq chain, like classical synthetic geo you mentioned?

[gritty totem]

so really just diff geo lite

[deep mango]

which basically talks about things like parameterized curves and surfaces, for curves you do curvature and torsion and frenet-serret frame, and then some theorems about winding numbers and stuff, for surfaces you study the first and second fundamental form, parallel transport and geodesics, gauss curvature, and some resulting theorems (maybe Gauss-Bonnet which talks about how genus of surfaces is related to total curvature)

[pulsar pagoda]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00211-020-01152-w bro is into ellipctic stuff

dont even know what that is yet

[deep mango]

kind of subsumed, a lot of the ideas come into regular diff geo but not all of them

it's less of a dead end but still a bit of a dead end

[bronze pelican]

Curvature!

[deep mango]

and usually a lot more computational than the manifolds stuff later

[muted totem]

Hmm I should tell my mathphys friend

[deep mango]

but IMO still very cool

if you're interested in things like the math of general relativity, it's very good stuff to learn

(even though for GR it's all in 4 dimensions)

[muted totem]

Oh nvm then haha

[deep mango]

oh also sometimes a class like this will end up talking about differential forms but usually that means they're leaving out something they shouldnt be

[bronze pelican]

There's this like classification result of curves in R^3 using curvature. That was really cool to me

[deep mango]

yes, there are some very nice theorems

[muted totem]

@deep mango thanks for letting me pick your brain

[deep mango]

also learning curvature and geodesics and stuff for general manifolds usually happens a lot later in a phd

oops

a lot later in undergrad

or early grad school

since there's a lot of other manifolds stuff to learn before it

[deep mango]

this is "riemannian geometry"

[ocean harbor]

@tame egret boss buggy

Smh robtop

The boss was about to die then it got bugged

[wary stone]

I want to do a long-term plan where I study for the years to come. Like I don't stop my consistency. At least for the next 3 years.

[ocean dirge]

I have difficulties identifying corresponding points while doing transformation question in igcse 0580 extended math, can someone tell esay way

[vivid halo]

Stop spamming this in every channel

[glad phoenix]

What an unfortunate thing, believing a lie.

[split pawn]

Heyy!

[glad phoenix]

Hi!

[split pawn]

Sabina!

[glad phoenix]

Haha yes

[glad phoenix]

Wild cat lover

[split pawn]

Haha

[glad phoenix]

Hah

[solar hawk]

I ping you every time too

I also love yellow messages

[shut island]

If you’re both the follower of Jesus Christ and not a follower of Jesus Christ I still want you to hear this message, God loves you and he is merciful so there is still time to repent. The end is near and the rapture is near, Repent while you still can cause if you don’t then god will judge you in the end times and you will be sent to the lake of fire or the second death.

[royal hearth]

Ok

[plain owl]

you're a bad person and you should feel bad for doing this

[zealous garden]

Based Amukh

[fringe summit]

Why

[long matrix]

If you’re both the follower of Jesus Christ and not a follower of Jesus Christ I still want you to hear this message, God loves you and he is merciful so there is still time to repent. The end is near and the rapture is near, Repent while you still can cause if you don’t then god will judge you in the end times and you will be sent to the lake of fire or the second death.

Post this to 100 other servers or you will burn in hell

think OP forgot this part

[fair mural]

lake of fire sounds interesting, i’m in

[languid hatch]

In the judgment day, People will be forced to speedbridge. If they're a good muslim then they won’t fall in the nether. If they're a bad muslim/bad believer, they will fall down to their demise. Ameen.

You dare have a copypasta wars with me?

[long matrix]

ok but where do u get blaze rods without going there

[vast surge]

If you’we both the fowwowew of jesus chwist awnd nowt a fowwowew of jesus chwist i stiww wawnt uwu tuwu heaw thiws message, god woves uwu awnd he iws mewcifuw so thewe iws stiww time tuwu wepent. The end iws neaw awnd the waptuwe iws neaw, wepent whiwe uwu stiww cawn cause if uwu don’t then god wiww judge uwu in the end times awnd uwu wiww be sent tuwu the wake of fiwe ow the second death.

[long matrix]

i think they burn these at the stake

[deep mango]

[vast surge]

It's not burned, it's just very well done. (Still a crime against humanity though; medium-rare is the best)

[long matrix]

💀

[fair mural]

wake of fiwe uwu

[naive grail]

I did nothing wrong personally but the rest of you guys should repent

[long matrix]

I did everything wrong, but repenting just cus everyone else tells me to will happen never

[naive grail]

I think you should save up your sins and then repent them all at once right before you reach the gates of heaven

speedrun strat

[long matrix]

i think i should knock on the gates, scream fuck you, and then fuckoff

[naive grail]

to each their own, as they say

[tame egret]

damn

[tame egret]

nice

[plain owl]

[long matrix]

[tame egret]

huh

[plain owl]

your profile

[long matrix]

[tame egret]

oh who do i sully

shuri?

[plain owl]

good idea

[tame egret]

😅

[long matrix]

[ocean harbor]

wanna play roblox

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1048660781123780749.gif?v=1&size=48&quality=lossless

[tame egret]

i deleted it lemme set it up then

[patent sphinx]

I thought he was merciful so why would he send me to the lake of fire 🤔

[tame egret]

mercy is different from spoiling

[tame egret]

🦒 💛

[ocean harbor]

What game are you gonna play?

[tame egret]

[tame egret]

um idk

[ocean harbor]

I have some fun games to play

They're all horror tho

[tame egret]

i see

[deft gyro]

Correction; God doesn’t send anyone to a lake of fire. People send themselves there by refusing to accept Jesus Christ.

[tame egret]

i'm just setting it up

i should have gotten roblox from ms store

[patent sphinx]

Thats cool and all but Goku solos

[plain owl]

what the fuck is that claim

"look at what you made me do"

[patent sphinx]

Think about it logically, what can be stronger than God? Super Saiyan God

[deft gyro]

How is he a bad person for saying the truth, for caring for you all so much that he would evangelize to him.

[deft gyro]

What do you mean?

[plain owl]

because it's obnoxious and intrusive

and it's obviously not true

[patent sphinx]

That no one can beat Goku he is the strongest

[deft gyro]

Why is it obnoxious and intrusive

[plain owl]

you're bringing religion into a server that is about proof

which is just unwanted and annoying

most people want to be left alone

[deft gyro]

Christianity is not a Religion!!!

[plain owl]

and yeah, you literally made the same excuse domestic abusers do

It literally is a religion?

[patent sphinx]

Its an organised religion my guy

[deft gyro]

To those who don’t know God.

[plain owl]

do you have a picture?

a video?

sound?

DNA?

[patent sphinx]

I do actually

Unfortunately, server doesn't allow me to post pics

[deft gyro]

God is not looking for a religion but relationship with him

[patent sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-finger-gun-tournament-of-power-goku-finger-gun-super-saiyan-god-gif-13078332187843205509

[plain owl]

how would you know

what evidence do you have of that

[tame egret]

do you have a pic of your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandfather yet you know he existed

[patent sphinx]

I don't

[plain owl]

LMAO WHAT

[patent sphinx]

I don't know he existed

[tame egret]

@glad phoenix hi

[plain owl]

We know how biology works

we have DNA

we have fossil records

[tame egret]

lol

[patent sphinx]

There is no proof of biology either

[deft gyro]

My evidence of God is the Bible, Apologetics and best of all my best friend the Holy Ghost.

[plain owl]

we can observe the existence of parents and children

[plain owl]

that's just a book written by farmers

[patent sphinx]

I will come here with extreme skepticism and destroy both religious people and atheists

[deft gyro]

How ?

[tame egret]

we have miracles signs wonders and authority

[patent sphinx]

You both are false

[plain owl]

No, there are no miracles, they have all been debunked

[tame egret]

wth

[plain owl]

authority is a concept

[patent sphinx]

That is not proof of existence of your dad and children
And that is not proof of God

[deft gyro]

Thank goodness I am none of those

[plain owl]

that is of course evidence

[patent sphinx]

You are former in denial

[tame egret]

yeah whatever

[deft gyro]

How

[patent sphinx]

Yes, that is evidence. But unfortunately not 100% proof

[plain owl]

seriously, little bit of scientific education and some healthy skepticism goes a long way

[patent sphinx]

No we need unhealthy skepticism

[plain owl]

It's just indoctrination at a young age tbh

[deft gyro]

If you’re scientific at all it would point you to God.

[plain owl]

then why can't you provide any evidence

[deft gyro]

I am tired of people using science as an argument against God

[tame egret]

when we all die we'll know

[patent sphinx]

Yeah, forget proof. You can't provide evidence

[plain owl]

you're not gonna know anything because you'll be dead

[patent sphinx]

Who the hell is using science as an argument against God? Forget it, Im not asking for empirical evidence. Maybe he exists. And not seeing him isn't evidence that he doesn't exist I agree. So then it is your duty now to prove metaphysically that god exists

[deft gyro]

My heart burns that men are ignorant of the one whom they carry his breath

[burnt ledge]

God obviously exists and science doesnt disprove it and also science isnt the only form of evidence for things and if you think it is then you are closing your mind for no reason.

[patent sphinx]

Now give me a metaphysical argument as to why god exists

[plain owl]

imagine being in a math server and using the word "obviously" when asked for evidence

[burnt ledge]

it is unironically genuinely that tho

[fair mural]

[patent sphinx]

How did you post that

[plain owl]

well and as usual, people who can't provide anything but "obviously" are wrong

[raven plaza]

Arki assigns pic perms

[patent sphinx]

Okay, prove existence of God

[raven plaza]

Bribe Arki with chicken

[patent sphinx]

hell no I don't want pic perms, I want my chickens with myself

[burnt ledge]

im not tryna get banned here i have a sense im on thin ice or about to be on thin ice so i have to restrain myself.

[deft gyro]

Even if evidence is given to you. It won’t change anything for your eyes are holding to perceive the truth

[raven plaza]

Hmph, no pics for you ig

[plain owl]

give me picture in picture perms

[patent sphinx]

and no chickens for you

[tame egret]

you are too filled with your "wisdom" which is why you cannot understand what we say same way the epicureans could not comprehend pauls speakings

[raven plaza]

Gib chickens

[deft gyro]

My prayer is that God gives you an encounter with him that would shake your beliefs, your thinking to the Core. Amen

[patent sphinx]

Why would you get banned for proving god's existence

[patent sphinx]

Even if I encounter him, it won't prove his existence

[plain owl]

good thing that this won't happen

[burnt ledge]

bc its one of the disrecommended topiccs

[burnt ledge]

it could happen

[plain owl]

obviously not

[patent sphinx]

Why would it be not recommended thats strange

[patent sphinx]

it could happen

[plain owl]

nah

[patent sphinx]

I could meet a unicorn tomorrow you don't know

Gravity could stop working tomorrow you don't know

[plain owl]

it won't

you're not special with your attitude

[patent sphinx]

How do you claim that

[deft gyro]

As long as you have this attitude it may be hard for it to happen but I will put it to prayer. It would happen. So go mark this day on your calendar

[patent sphinx]

I guess you're not aware of problem of induction that science faces

[plain owl]

yeah sorry, but 200 year old 1st year philosophy classes don't exactly phaze me

the "oh but induction" is cringe

it's a meme at this point

[patent sphinx]

You can't even make an argument against it

[tame egret]

hey if u are so sure GOD does not exist then

[plain owl]

I could, but I know how you operate

[patent sphinx]

You can't

[raven plaza]

Problem: induction
Solution: math > science

[tame egret]

everyone is free to go to the lake of fire

[patent sphinx]

Exactly

[plain owl]

do you actually know how scientists work nowadays?

[patent sphinx]

math is more certain than science

[patent sphinx]

I can destroy their new framework as well

[deft gyro]

It would.
Christian’s must wake up and cry that the heart of men be soft to accept Christ.

[plain owl]

no you can't, you took like a 1st semester philosophy course

or watched 2 youtube videos

it's not enlightened

[patent sphinx]

I didn't even take that, but I still can.

[burnt ledge]

im not a christian but rather something better ;)

[plain owl]

yeah, so maybe, just maybe, you haven't figured everything out

[patent sphinx]

mophra you're not very good or bright at discourse sorry my G

[plain owl]

and it's kinda disrespectful

[patent sphinx]

I don't claim to

[plain owl]

ahem

[patent sphinx]

How is skepticism disrespectful

[tame egret]

huh

[plain owl]

this isn't skepticism

[burnt ledge]

but ill happily join ur prayer Onum

[plain owl]

I'm pretty good at it

[patent sphinx]

No one can be a complete skeptic its not possible

[patent sphinx]

Nah

[deft gyro]

What are you then ?

[plain owl]

because I tend to talk about things I understand

[patent sphinx]

You clearly don't

[plain owl]

and how could you judge that given your position of knowing a lot less?

[patent sphinx]

I've just made a claim and I claim it to be true
And its just as valid as science

[plain owl]

And that is nonsense

[patent sphinx]

Nah

[plain owl]

Yeah, waste of time

I hope in the future you'll find that out

[patent sphinx]

thats a lot of cope

[plain owl]

if you go to uni

[patent sphinx]

I hope one day you can engage faithfully in discourse

[tame egret]

harper has joined the fight prayer!
weapons: flaming arrow and axe!

@plain owl lol you shut down discussy rn

[drifting grove]

What high school math courses do you guys recommmend for someone interested in going to college and possibly grad school for computer science

I'm not sure which cources to take to get the best head start in the field

[plain owl]

what options do you have?

kind of hard to give an answer considering that depending on country and region the courses are vastly different

[ocean lintel]

Hello

[blazing pawn]

i dont really feel like theres enough variation in offerings at almost any high school in the world for the answer to not be "anything that is offered"

[lament path]

in high school just take all the offered math classes

you won't find something that won't show up in uni

[peak tide]

statistics would be good for CS too if you want to pursue ML

[native badger]

<@&268886789983436800>

man posted this in like 20 channels at once

[cold needle]

thanks

[native badger]

np

[drifting grove]

ok

[drifting grove]

ye i was planning on stats

[cinder zephyr]

gun though as much calc as possible

just makes life easier

if you don't have to take it in college

otherwise yea anything and everything that is offered

except maybe AP Stats

useless course, the credit is useless if you want to go into anything STEM based

A good amount of stem based degrees want a calc based stats course

AP stats is algebra based

hence why I say the credit is useless

[fervent flame]

yeah unless its changed in the past 5 years, ap stats was just some basic logic and knowing the cookie cutter steps to the word problems for like CIs/etc

[glad phoenix]

Hi, sorry I was already sleeping.

[ripe needle]

Do you guys forsee Elliptic Curves still being big in cryptography 10-20 years from now

[visual breach]

Think curves would be always there

[long matrix]

in 10-20 years there will be no cryptography

[plain owl]

10-20 years is not a long time

[visual breach]

Enough for a.. doom, perhaps

[long matrix]

u will have no secrets

foolish hoomans

[visual breach]

Ah, are you a cat

[rocky shuttle]

meep

[ripe needle]

That's fair lmao

[foggy cargo]

@winter hinge my bad

didn't see that you replied to a specific message

tout façon faut que j'aille

[winter hinge]

le concours info n'a pas maths D

[foggy cargo]

can i send you a friend request

[humble laurel]

with any strategy that i could speedly construct

A deep

preparation

to one of schools

in a superior class

?

give me advice?

[winter hinge]

I don't think either of us can really give you much advice there
Just have a solid dossier, something impressive that stands out

your problem is that students from prépa also try to enter that way
So the competition is extra harsh

[humble laurel]

yes

study

math in russia

is not like that

[winter hinge]

but you're in algeria ?

[humble laurel]

yes, changing environnement to western , a lot of people didnt love math as me here

I work online and with books and i created a self program for a construction of my career

because the program of math in algeria

is not perfect exept some teachers

@winter hinge

[rocky shuttle]

it's nowhere perfect

[winter hinge]

I can confirm

[split pawn]

@topaz surge we can talk here

[topaz surge]

:) 'ello

[split pawn]

Hi

I'll join a VC for now ig

DLTS doesnt connect nvm

okay connected

[split pawn]

@topaz surge

[topaz surge]

:) 'ello

[split pawn]

why

[tame egret]

oh np

[fair mural]

@alpine kindle you like spelunky right? which do you think would be best to play first?

[long matrix]

silles

sillies
silles

good one

[fair mural]

huh

[tame egret]

why sully?

[long matrix]

id ask u the same thing

wth u doin

[tame egret]

he typed 'ello so i sullied him

[waxen vapor]

Hey guys
Does anybody know a good discord server for help on chemistry and/or physics?

[dense hornet]

#old-network has a lot of different available discorda

[alpine kindle]

I've never played the first one for any extended period of time

the second one is hard as fuck and I've heard the original is easier so probably the original

i do believe the sequel is a better game though

[trail totem]

hello ok i need help with math but in a more silly way

[ocean harbor]

!help

[quasi jetty]

To ask for mathematics help on this server, please open your own help channel or help thread. See #❓how-to-get-help for instructions.

[trail totem]

ok i'll just go thre

[cinder zephyr]

There's a sequel to Spelunky?

[rocky shuttle]

#spelunky-2

[dense hornet]

I still think you look like Kayo

[rocky shuttle]

Then you can't distinguish them well

[dense hornet]

Who's the other anime girlie then?

[rocky shuttle]

鹿乃 (Kano)

Not from an anime

She's an utaite

[long matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNkPJvVEm0s

[vivid parcel]

@glad phoenix @split pawn

Oops sorry

[glad phoenix]

Oh, what’s going on?

[muted totem]

I have a fairly long "can someone look over my proof" request. Would it go best in the topic channel (real-complex-analysis) or maybe a help channel, or something else?

Also, is the best method of presentation a pdf, an Overleaf screenshot, or a some texit messages?

Nevermind-- I compactified it

[gritty totem]

What does "fairly long mean"

[rocky shuttle]

sakeru gummy long long man

[gritty totem]

Ah, thank you

[livid wing]

You know those memory games where you memorize a sequence of enumerated squares? https://f-droid.org/packages/org.og8.a1tox
If I play it on my phone's screen will I train my peripheral vision?
What I need are those rubber balls. I have seen a peripheral vision training that uses them.

[final rivet]

I hate memory games

i always lose

[final rivet]

it would be pretty cool tho if it did help

[livid wing]

I took a screenshot of the game and remembered I have no image perms and when I went back to the game I opened and tried to press the button on the screenshot.

[oak wing]

my mum wants me to write down what things i could do as a profession. i have no idea what i want to do, but i want to major in maths. does anyone know what i could put down?

[rocky shuttle]

math teacher

[oak wing]

hmm

i dont really want to teach (at least not at hs or below) and my mum probably wouldn't like it anyway idk

the major isnt set in stone though

so i might just put down anything

[rocky shuttle]

you could stay in academia, become a researcher or strive to be a professor

[oak wing]

how good is that as a career path

[rocky shuttle]

or go to the industry as a consultant, data scientist, statistician, software engineer, ... depending on your specialization

[oak wing]

thank you

would a compsci minor help?

[rocky shuttle]

sure if you want to do computer-related stuff

[oak wing]

right

[rocky shuttle]

you're not limited to math-related stuff either when you get your degree, as the analytical thinking skills you obtain during your math studies are valuable

[oak wing]

would it be hard to get a job?

[rocky shuttle]

that depends on a lot of factors, i can't assess that

[oak wing]

right

[visual breach]

I doubt companies would value that tho.

[last creek]

Really depends on the company and the job imo. Software/CS doesn't seem to put a super high premium on your specific degree if you can demonstrate programming ability/experience.

Then the fact that you did math might mean something to them or it might mean nothing

[visual breach]

Yea, but I don't think there are many companies which would be interested in abilities of math major

[winged mulch]

guys anyone here can server boost a server rq? i need to reach lvl 2 on server boosting

lemme know in dms if u can server boostt thanks

[last creek]

I don't have any evidence but I disagree. Lots of people see any STEM degree as evidence of general intelligence and/or dedication. That's a big leg up over a non-STEM degree.

I doubt they're really sitting on a pile of conjectures to prove, but therer are transferrable skills

[visual breach]

Intelligence/Dedication

Do they really devalue non-STEM degree like this

[last creek]

Maybe it's better to say general "technical" problem solving, but I would say that there are definitely software companies that would value a math degree over a english degree

[blazing pawn]

Math degrees are broadly perceived as impressive which helps somewhat

If you have the actual skills you need to do the job then it's probably fine

[last creek]

There is a possibly flawed view that good at math = smart. Many of the people hiring you will have been frustrated with math at some point, and some of them will have blamed their own intelligence

[visual breach]

Good point!

Yea, flawed view yet helps nonetheless.

[blazing pawn]

Your degree doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things if you have a relevant skill set but it can help

[visual breach]

(Unless they go full "nerds lol")

[blazing pawn]

There's probably a trade off somewhere here where it's not as great for the average swe job but is appealing to the high end firms or competitive start ups that have enough applicants with the basic skills that they're trying to select for broad problem solving abilities

And are maybe willing to do some of the technical training on the job if they think your broad capabilities are good enough

[solar hawk]

@long matrix

It’s okay

It’s in safe hands

[split pawn]

?

[dense hornet]

@solar hawk is always thinking about that tasty fish

[solar hawk]

Fr

[solid snow]

<@&268886789983436800>

[solar hawk]

What happened

[tawdry prism]

https://youtu.be/GFvkcLF50VI

[split pawn]

missed it again

[ocean harbor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/934212312921931786/1061375930527912047/image0.gif?ex=656b8edd&is=655919dd&hm=16ad4b6d0b3f9ccbce0be96ab44288291590c4e6a8cdbe62f550a5f1b8da55e7&

[proven herald]

what is this process called: x^2 + 2x + 1 --> (x+1)^2

[vivid halo]

factoring

[serene vault]

I will pay sumone to help me work my math work. when i mean help me i mean like do the work. its sum light math (Trig) grade 11

[sonic sentinel]

is it easy to make like your own offline wikipedia-style wiki

i think it would be cool/funny to have a (private) wiki of my own life

[mint canopy]

One way to do this is via obsidian which is a notes app with a wiki-like structure. It won't render precisely like a wiki but it's pretty damn close, and you can add plugins to do a lot of wiki-like things.

Oh and it's totally free. They just have some paid hosting plans if you want to put things online.

[long matrix]

[mint canopy]

Fun fact: minecraft took its obsidian mechanics entirely from dwarf fortress.

DF invented lava + water = obsidian

[sonic sentinel]

i remember i tried using that a long time ago but I couldn't figure out how to put hyperlinks and the tutorials wouldn't work for some reason idr

speaking of hyperlinks how on earth did you do that

<a href="www.google.com"> test </a>

nope

/hyperlink this

[zealous garden]

I'm pretty sure God did that one

[mint canopy]

[label](link)

[ocean harbor]

Instead of letting someone do your work, you could use help channels and learn how to do them

[north elk]

bet

[ocean harbor]

In fact, this is how you get help

[north elk]

i’ll do your work

for how much?

[ocean harbor]

What if he scammed you

[north elk]

eh idk

my life’s boring anyway

let’s make it exciting

[ocean harbor]

Just be unbored

Do a hobby that you like

[dense hornet]

Hobbies don't go on my resume.

[ocean harbor]

Don't try to give me your hw or smth

[ocean harbor]

_ _

Easy

[dense hornet]

Nice nice

[dense hornet]

I guess it is kind of interesting that there are only 8 requisites for senior projects but that's only 1/4 of the credits needed for an Aerospace degree.

Like the majority of Aerospace Engineering is just making yourself knowledgeable enough to understand it.

[sonic sentinel]

what

for obsidian, fine

[neat lintel]

I majored in CS but am interested in getting a masters in computer and electrical engineering. My calculus skills are, very poor. I took calc 1&2 and a super easy introduction to differential equations a long time ago, don’t remember too too much. My goal is to be able to quickly recognize when you can use a Fourier transform to solve something, stuff like that. More of a heuristics thing than a hard skill. Anyone have an idea on how to speed run this stuff without spending tons of time doing computation?

[river moon]

people that know how to do this spent a lot of time figuring out basic computational problems with fourier

[neat lintel]

🥲

[river moon]

it's not even that hard to get into fourier stuff if your calculus skills are solid

[ebon snow]

i need a list of conjecture to study like for exemple goldbach, feigenbaum

[river moon]

not sure how you want to get into it if it involves series, integration and differentiation as minimal knowledge

[neat lintel]

i’m just throwing around ideas

i’m not sure what i want to do

i’m not a math guy

im into systems and more like electronics stuff in computer engineering

i’m debating whether to get a masters in CS or CE/EE

[ocean harbor]

Do you live in canada by any chance?

[neat lintel]

no

[latent zodiac]

wonder math 😔

[ebon snow]

i need it

i use them on my trading

and i enjoy it

[long matrix]

[sonic ether]

b

[turbid ocean]

o

[long matrix]

[visual breach]

Isn't Goldbach conjecture partially solved or something

I mean more like for some restricted conditions that holds for infinitely many numbers

I could be confused it with pair primes one tho

[plain owl]

weak goldbach

[visual breach]

Yea

Olivier Ramaré in 1995 showed that every even number n ≥ 4 is in fact the sum of at most six primes, from which it follows that every odd number n ≥ 5 is the sum of at most seven primes. Leszek Kaniecki showed every odd integer is a sum of at most five primes, under the Riemann Hypothesis.[10] In 2012, Terence Tao proved this without the Riemann Hypothesis; this improves both results.

Well, it seems Goldbach is getting some love unlike Collatz conjecture (which does seem meh to me - what is 3n+1 )

[deep mango]

solve riemann hypothesis
hundreds and hundreds of papers verified
solve collatz
literally no impact on math

[vernal topaz]

get rich

[ocean harbor]

who plays uno

[dense hornet]

Idc I still think Collatz is nest asf

It is very nest 🪹 I am birb

[sick kite]

solve RH
literally no real world impact

[river moon]

there's still people doing graph coloring problems

[visual breach]

I believe RH is so pervasive that it would impact things like PDEs

[small dust]

i think we should just take RH as an axiom

[weary lotus]

hello mathematicians, I am jack i want to increase my maths knowledge give me tips

[vivid halo]

Tfw lots of number theorists basically do

[small dust]

[alpine comet]

A few years ago, iirc, there were some papers showing that under GRH, some trivial algorithms are in fact optimal

It's super fucked up

[vague ferry]

Read books and watch YouTube videos on math

[neat lintel]

It would be fun to see the machinery used to prove collatz though, and one could start extending ideas from there

[long matrix]

[neat lintel]

There are like 5 known loops for collatz with negative integers, so it would be fun to see how the machinery would be extended here

[long matrix]

crunk cronk chug chug crank crank

[neat lintel]

chug jug

[grizzled grove]

Study of Elliptic curves is well motivated by congruent triangle problem. But what kind of basic arithmetic application motivated such giant abstractions such as automorphic forms etc?

[vast surge]

I'm not sure I buy into "elliptic curves were motivated by the congruent triangle problem".

[grizzled grove]

I mean there were other motivation also, like calculating length related to ellipses etc, that is atleast there are some ground level applications to elliptic curve.

[jolly junco]

Interesting observation: my naive algorithm for polynomial multiplication has some weird run times.

Multiplying two random 64 degree polynomials takes 1-2ms, but two random 640 degree polynomials takes only 20-22ms.

There's only a 20x increase in time despite a 10x increase in size?

The number of multiplications is 100x as much

[leaden torrent]

this is probably less on the algorithm itself and more on your processor

[fervent flame]

you arent considering the algorithm overhead. but also for your curiosity's sake you should run benchmarks and look at (plot) the runtime for your algorithm for polynomials from degrees, say 1 to 100000

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_complexity

there's no reason to assume linear scaling

[twilit parrot]

Can someone pick 1 or 2 plsssss

[ocean harbor]

why?

[glad phoenix]

2

[twilit parrot]

Ok thx

[twilit parrot]

I’m drawing and it’s a challenge where I use 2 random colors and let strangers pick 1 or 2

It’s fun

You can pick too btw

[ocean harbor]

ok i choose 1

[bright hill]

I found the perfect sub

I thought it couldn't be done

I thought no one could top r/titanfolk

but I was wrong

@supple flame the r/jujutsufolk is reall!!!

[long matrix]

@ mods

[fossil drum]

https://youtu.be/FYLoPYnDuNs?si=Vr8xAKyUnTYWWWE6

[bright hill]

oh I'm so glad you're here

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/179hkt7

this is so brilliant

why did I never think of this??

ok, one sec

[jolly junco]

I assumed quadratic

But yes overhead is definitely something

[bright hill]

genius, right?

[jolly junco]

Would it be possible that the compiler recognized the schoolbook multiplication algo and put something O( n log n) or is that too far fetched?

One treadmill per foot

[bright hill]

two treadmills!

[jaunty marsh]

this is great

[bright hill]

oh man

where was this sub two months ago?

the fraudkuna memes must've been hilarious

[fair mural]

[bright hill]

oh sorry

it didn't have voice, one sec

oh...

mb

[gritty totem]

lobtomy kaisen adjacent

[limber thunder]

I should catch up with jjk

thought s1 was boring but after spoiling myself enough through insta I think all the good shit is beyond that point

[fervent flame]

yep jjk is good for sure

[fervent flame]

what?

[gritty totem]

oh yeah s2 is really eventful

[neat lintel]

same

jjk season 1 just seemed like typical shounen to me

there's some really op guy who everyone loves and a bunch of monsters and everyone is fighting

aka every shounen anime

[jolly junco]

Under the hood its just two arraylists being multiplied

Is it too far fetched to go on a limb and say the compiler recognized it?

[fervent flame]

what do you even mean

do you mean, did the compiler "understand" that you were multiplying to arrays and made the algorithm O(nlogn)? if so, the answer is a big fat no

[jolly junco]

Wish it did ngl

[fervent flame]

where did you even get nlogn

[jolly junco]

FFT

Idek ngl

Compilers are black magic to me

[fervent flame]

... fast fourier transform???

[jolly junco]

There's some weird way to use fft to solve polynomial multiplication in O(n log n)

There's also Number Theoretic Transform(?) I think

[fervent flame]

okay, but you said you are multiplying two arrays together

the compiler is going to do what you tell it to do

[jolly junco]

I'm aware

I assumed you were asking in general

[neat lintel]

Programming language theory and compiler design is really interesting

formal language theory is the basis of this stuff, interestingly this field was pioneered by noam chomsky (linguist)

theory of computation is also heavily intertwined

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_grammar

[alpine kindle]

well
bad linguist

a lot of his work is just

not how language works

the way he does tree gramnar specifically

very anglocentric

breaks apart as soon as you look at like
german even

[neat lintel]

C and gcc >>>> German

[pulsar pagoda]

cpp though

[neat lintel]

gcc does exactly what you tell it to do and then sits silently waiting to do more work, we could all take a page out of its book, or man pages rather

[neat lintel]

God intended for software to be written in C

[pulsar pagoda]

kernel stuff sure

[neat lintel]

technology peaked with procedural programming, it’s all been downhill since then

[zealous garden]

Everything is supposed to be written in HolyC

[jagged forge]

i dont even like jjk that much but the memes are so good

[tame egret]

[fading bramble]

not specifically math-related, but do people here have any suggestions for rather cheap tablets that i can use to write digital notes with?

[coral mauve]

if u dont mind using chromeOS

get this

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/lenovo-ideapad-duet-3-10.95-2-in-1-chromebook-snapdragon-7c-gen-2-128-gb-emmc-grey-10251449.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=liiaawxti&istBid=t&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~1025 (Shopping Ads) Chromebook - PMAX~~Exact~71700000113032223~&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=&tgtid=1025 (Shopping Ads) Chromebook - PMAX&&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA4smsBhAEEiwAO6DEjeT9c7o5k4naIqHXCxHA66yC8dFvH3R3dvNtE6Y2cgrTrXdZDUijMRoCEtUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

like if u really need it now get the samsung galaxy s6 lite

like its the budget option

but i personally reccoment getting a good secondhand tab s9 ultra

still pricey but really good for the long term ig

hope it helps

[fading bramble]

@coral mauvesounds good. How are the pen options? For being able to lay down the side of my hand on the tablet I need some type of glove right?

[untold sapphire]

rewrite it in rust

[zealous garden]

I will rewrite rust in HolyC, then use it to write a rust to HolyC transpiler

[neat lintel]

death

DEATH CUBED

[untold sapphire]

that's basically fine C is just portable assembly

i write code at work that transpiles to C

[jagged forge]

@pulsar pagoda microsecond latency on a budget lmfao

i found a $200 mini pc with an external pcie x8 slot

gonna plug in a mellanox card into it

oh i almost forgot i need a 25 gigabit ethernet cable

[static loom]

cool what are you using it for

[jagged forge]

nothing yet tbh, i just want to try out kernel bypass networking

it is used in some areas in my field, including one project at work, which i liked working on

[static loom]

sounds fun

[jagged forge]

yeah 70 million packets per second at 1 usec latency sounds pretty badass

although we'll see if the latency actually stays that way at max throughput...

[neat lintel]

no

rust has been rejected

it’s a decent replacement for C++

Everyone agrees we need to move away from C, but it hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t for many decades.

[jagged forge]

how has rust been rejected

[neat lintel]

Its been rejected by the C community for a ton of reasons

There is a reason it hasn’t taken off

There are many languages that have tried to replaced C and it hasn’t happened

[loud snow]

Hi

[neat lintel]

Memory errors are also getting harder and harder to come by and often aren’t worth generating exploits for when you realize there are many things misconfigured and an incorrectly applied encryption scheme… etc. Binary exploitation is a very small part of vulnerability research.

Of course this stuff still exists. There are tons of industrial control systems running stuff like windows XP

When I say hard to come by, Im talking about like an error in the linux kernel or Windows source

You will almost certainly not find one, unless you’re working with a team of PhDs and have months to dedicate to it

There are also advanced techniques for proving code is secure

SMT solving is very powerful

Fuzzing, static analysis

[static loom]

I just heard the other day linus torvalds saying they are letting rust into the kernel which as far as I was aware was C not C++

[neat lintel]

I’m not saying it has no legitimate use cases. But C is the lingua franca of Operating Systems and that will likely not change anytime soon

[jagged forge]

i accept that c programmers might not be fans of rust, but [citation needed]

i agree c is not going anywhere for decades

[neat lintel]

I’m citing myself on that

[jagged forge]

well other sources say otherwise

for example this chart from android

they are writing new android code in rust and they still have memory safety vulnerabilities regularly

err, I worded that weirdly

they are still writing new code in c/c++ and get vulnerabilities from that code regularly

they have not discovered any vulnerabilities from their rust code

[neat lintel]

that graph you have is not on the source code for the operating system, which is what i am talking about. That is the most powerful target

like yeah, sure, a random weight loss app is going to be easy to pop

[jagged forge]

android is an operating system

this is the android code they are talking about

[neat lintel]

i think they are talking about the platform

[jagged forge]

There are approximately 1.5 million total lines of Rust code in AOSP across new functionality and components such as Keystore2, the new Ultra-wideband (UWB) stack, DNS-over-HTTP3, Android’s Virtualization framework (AVF), and various other components and their open source dependencies.

i am not sure what “the android platform” means here but it’s certainly not referring to random apps

https://security.googleblog.com/2022/12/memory-safe-languages-in-android-13.html?m=1

[neat lintel]

85 vulnerabilities reported via bug bounty and internally is really low like, it doesn’t say how many of these were found by the methods I just mentioned. Also, finding a memory vulnerability is a big difference than generating an exploit for one.

“We continue to invest in tools to improve the safety of our C/C++. Over the past few releases we’ve introduced the Scudo hardened allocator, HWASAN, GWP-ASAN, and KFENCE on production Android devices. We’ve also increased our fuzzing coverage on our existing code base.”

While correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation, it’s interesting to note that the percent of vulnerabilities caused by memory safety issues seems to correlate rather closely with the development language that’s used for new code

Still, doesn’t equal causation

I dont think this is really at odds with what I am saying

Zero day has nation state capabilities

that’s in 15 million lines of code

85 vulnerabilities, with it constantly changing.

And again, then you need to generate an exploit. And what I’ve heard from the vuln researchers is that all that usually isn’t worth it. Whatever your target is there are easier ways to go about it.

[visual breach]

Lmao

Well just to say, it is interesting to see late adopter

[neat lintel]

Rust is not and never will be a mainstream replacement for C

[long matrix]

[neat lintel]

theres really no way to have arbitrary control over memory without introducing programmer error. So much of OS operations require unsafe rust, which is basically just a c skin. Its either hardware enforcement that is the real answer, or something like rustc that is designed for the fine grained access that OSes need

[visual breach]

Mainstream replacement for C
I think that would depend on the usage

[pulsar pagoda]

rust is ok for kernel modules

but kernel level stuff

mhh

[untold sapphire]

This is not a principled answer.
"Memory errors aren't that common." SIKE! Memory errors happen all the time in many critical locations! Expert C programmers fuck up memory allocation and deallocation because they're only human beings. Nobody's perfect!

"There are advanced techniques for proving code is secure, like static analysis"
If you believe in static analysis it makes sense to use a programming language which is designed from day 1 from principles that make it easy. The simplest and most fundamental kind of static analysis is the kind that is built into the language via the type system. If you want to do static analysis with a language with a poor type system, you are going to end up reinventing the wheel by bolting on a new static type system to your language. It is obviously going to be easier to prove Standard ML code correct than to prove that Python code is correct.

[neat lintel]

people don’t make new OSes. The code base is too large to remake. Linux is adding drivers written in rust, but a lot of the appeal goes away because most of it is done in unsafe.

so we are stuck with C

[pulsar pagoda]

https://github.com/pydantic/pydantic-core case in point

[neat lintel]

I started this by saying “everyone agrees we need to move away from C” it’s just probably not going to happen for decades, and rust ain’t it.

I said memory errors are getting harder and harder to come by and that exploiting them isn’t usually the most practical way to achieve a nefarious goal.

They exist and matter, but mostly in old legacy code, not in a critical code path of a major operating system. Finding a memory leak and generating an exploit for Linux is winning an Olympic gold medal in vulnerability research.

People cabaple of doing this are usually working in teams of PhD types with massive funding

What is holding the world together is a bunch of offensive weapons pointed everywhere, not good security

[stoic barn]

$\dv[-1]{x}(2x)=x^2+C$

[fathom swallow]

Jash

[rocky shuttle]

[visual breach]

Appeal goes away when unsafe
Huh.

Also did anyone say rust will completely replace C?

[neat lintel]

This started with me saying why C has been pretty much rejected by systems programmers as a replacement for C

[visual breach]

Assuming you mean rust is rejected, well could you elaborate on what “system programmers” mean here

[neat lintel]

people who create embedded system drivers and applications. C is still the default language for this stuff, rust isn’t close. People who engineer OSes and kernels do this at the most serious level, and they have rejected rust.

[untold sapphire]

In my opinion you did not explain why Rust in particular has been rejected, you just downplayed the issues with C to explain why they don't need to be resolved because they're not that big a deal.

1. Memory errors are getting harder to come by, so we don't need a memory safe language
2. We don't need a C alternative because we can prove C code is secure with SMT solving, fuzzing and static analysis
   None of that is a criticism of Rust in any way, it's saying that C is fine. So idk what you mean when you say "everyone agrees we need to move away from C", it sounds like you think there's nothing wrong at all with C

[static loom]

their source btw

[neat lintel]

I don’t have a paper to link it’s just conversations I’ve had

[solar hawk]

C programmers vs rust programmers fight in here

calmest discussion ever tho

[untold sapphire]

i'm not a rust programmer i'm just pro static typing and code correctness

[neat lintel]

This is the hill I will die on

[untold sapphire]

i program in OCaml

[visual breach]

So because they are not using rust for core kernel level, systems programming as its entirety rejected rust

[solar hawk]

i use C++ :shame: im sorry guys 😭

i like oop too 🔫

waiting for the redditors to take me away

[neat lintel]

It’s entirely rejected as a replacement for C

It has valid use cases

[solar hawk]

C isnt being replaced tho

it doesnt need to

[visual breach]

What do you mean by replacement here, did you mean replacing every usage of C completely?

[neat lintel]

Yes

Eventually we need something that is that

[solar hawk]

i dont think that will happen any time soon

let gen alpha worry about it ok

[neat lintel]

This is all starting to come full circle

[visual breach]

Well, fair I guess. At least I interpreted that you mean rust is not going to replace any usage of C

[neat lintel]

No.

Go has also

I think Rust is a significant improvement over C++

[visual breach]

I think systems applications and e.g. the baseline tech powering cloud could be replaced by rust

[solar hawk]

in what?

i can think of one place where it fails

c++ does better at atleast one thing

dont sully me before you hear me

[visual breach]

Daily reminder that C > C++

[neat lintel]

rust has a better package manager, a wider range of modern programming paradigm support, and dodged all the pitfalls of C++. It really is better in every way

[solar hawk]

this is rust, i didnt talk about C

[solar hawk]

every way

C++ is better at looking like C++ than rust is

[neat lintel]

You got me

[solar hawk]

and C++ makes masochists happier too

C++ syntax is pretty

[visual breach]

You can do masochism just as well with Rust

[solar hawk]

i know but its harder

the errors look really nice

[neat lintel]

If you are a real masochist you should use python

[solar hawk]

no thats if im a kid

[visual breach]

Try lifetime annotations and general associated types

[solar hawk]

ok

no

i dont even use rust anyway

i like c++

[visual breach]

Interesting, I guess you need more time to garner dislike over c++ or sth

[solar hawk]

no i dislike it

very much

i just like it too

plus im too used to it

[neat lintel]

engineering a large piece of software in python is Sisyphean and just evil.

[solar hawk]

all my newer projects r still in c++ and i dont wanna restart

plus all the comp judges online only accept c++

plus i like OOP too

[visual breach]

Yea that is transition phase before you hate it

[solar hawk]

rust isnt oop iirc

[visual breach]

Ah, competitive programming. Dam they are slow at change

[neat lintel]

i prefer to program in matlab in a word document

[solar hawk]

so is everything

[visual breach]

It is, it just does not have the inheritance.

[solar hawk]

then.. its not oop?

thats one of the pillars of oop

"im 16, but im an adult, please give me alcohol now"

[visual breach]

In bastardized version of OOP, yea I guess it is like that

[solar hawk]

i guess i like that version of oop

nothing i can do

its only human 🤷‍♂️

[visual breach]

Only time will be your salvation

[solar hawk]

lol

[solar hawk]

then what should i like instead

instead of oop?

FP? i am not interested in cat theory today, maybe next week

[visual breach]

No, 'liking oop' is not wrong

The thing is with 'liking inheritance'

[solar hawk]

ok

what is oop wo inheritence tho..

just structs?

no poly either then?

[visual breach]

Coupling of data and behavior, thereby achieving encapsulation

[solar hawk]

ok

[last creek]

Inheritance can be nice, but I think it's bad rep just comes from crazy over use

[solar hawk]

if i arent gonna use my OOP, ill just do FP

im not gonna fake-oop

ok

[last creek]

There are situations where the "is like X but with additional properties Y and X" is the perfect abstraction

[visual breach]

Well I've never seen inheritance which is nice other than interface - object thing, and that one does not really need inheritance.

[visual breach]

Idk, I think this kind of situation is just rare enough.

[untold sapphire]

I taught somebody how to solve the first advent of code problem in ocaml the other day

[solar hawk]

very nice

[untold sapphire]

OCaml is an industrial-strength, general-purpose functional programming language with an emphasis on safety and expressiveness btw

[solar hawk]

i have been meaning to learn haskell, lean, or idris properly but

[neat lintel]

Anyone wanna see something confusing

[solar hawk]

i havnt got the time

[visual breach]

Wait you are not going to convert-

[solar hawk]

lol selling us ocaml

[neat lintel]

Wait I can't send an image 🥺

[untold sapphire]

ocaml is the easiest out of all these

[visual breach]

How can you do this

[solar hawk]

why

[visual breach]

I would claim F# is stronger at education & industry >.>

[solar hawk]

idris looks pretty easy

haskell syntax looks mid

[untold sapphire]

it's really more of a multi-paradigm language than a pure fp language, it's kind of a hybrid of FP and imperative and object oriented. so you are not forced to do FP if it's not the most natural solution to a problem, however it does support the FP fragment very well which is why most people regard it as a functional language

[visual breach]

Just go to #chill , that is where memes are

[solar hawk]

i see

where do i learn pure fp? like

whats a monad

[neat lintel]

It wasn't a meme

[neat lintel]

What do you do?

I put it up n their anyway

[visual breach]

You said you do not care for category theory

[solar hawk]

i was joking lol

[untold sapphire]

Also ocaml is easier to reason about performance than haskell/idris/agda etc.
Haskell has a gigabrain compiler that like, tries its best to make the code performant but you really have no idea about performance when you're writing the code
OCaml is a more simple language and the translation into machine code is more straightforward so it's more realistic to design performant programs.

[solar hawk]

ic

what do these languages compile to

i thought lean compiled to llvmir but i think im mistaken

[untold sapphire]

ocaml has its own compiler
Agda compiles to haskell
Haskell has its own compiler
Idk what lean compiles to

[solar hawk]

own compiler straight to machine code/asm?

so none of these are interpreted huh

[untold sapphire]

right now i work in computational biology and my day job is like, writing python scripts that glue together calls to other libraries. i am learning functional programming as a hobby.
Recently i did write some performant code at work in Futhark which is a niche academic language for high performance numerical computing in a purely functional style, it's pretty interesting

[untold sapphire]

yes.

[untold sapphire]

no.

However Haskell and Ocaml both have repls

[visual breach]

Not true, one can reason with laziness - It's just that you always need to profile larger apps anyway.

[untold sapphire]

Ocaml has an interpreted mode, it has a bytecode version that runs in a vm runtime environment

[solar hawk]

what about idris adga tho

[untold sapphire]

idk how haskell's works

[solar hawk]

doesnt idris support that dependent-type crankery tho

[visual breach]

I think Idris compiles to C nowadays

[visual breach]

Crankery
Not crankery, at least

[untold sapphire]

i told you that agda compiles to haskell
Idk anything bout idris
yes agda and idris both support dependent types and can be used as theorem provers

[solar hawk]

what if i wanna prove some theorems

[visual breach]

Oh

[solar hawk]

these r all jokes lol...

[visual breach]

Use Lean

[untold sapphire]

kill yourself

[solar hawk]

i know

i used to

[visual breach]

Yea I see

[solar hawk]

but my friend keeps saying to stop

and use idris

[visual breach]

Well you have to if you are ever going to contribute to formal math with theorem provers

[solar hawk]

does ocaml also have that dependent crankery?

ayo the mods r gonna be on ur ass b careful

[visual breach]

Lol

[solar hawk]

[fervent flame]

[untold sapphire]

No ocaml is much more of a practical real world programming language. it's especially good for compilers, interpreters, shit like that. Rust's compiler was implemented in OCaml, the coq theorem prover is implemented in ocaml, many theorem provers through history have been implemented in OCaml or one of its sibling dialects

[jagged forge]

I think maybe HFT is harder in Rust than C++ which is the de facto standard afaik. eg Rust is move by default, which causes unnecessary stack-to-stack copies when you pass a large thing by value, which can be bad if you are really sensitive to performance

[untold sapphire]

Jane Street for example has like 40 million lines of OCaml in production. there are not 40 million lines of Agda anywhere

[solar hawk]

ic

[jagged forge]

now that OCaml has multi core i am tempted to try it, but i heard the ecosystem is still pretty immature in that area since its brand new

[solar hawk]

i dont like the logo tho

[untold sapphire]

@visual breach i don't actually hate lean i just hate people who act like it's the best because it has a good marketing team

it drives me fucking insane when people can't tell marketing from reality

[solar hawk]

well i mean

[visual breach]

Yea me either, I just mean you cannot avoid it (in certain contexts).

[solar hawk]

the lean logo and website looks hot asf

[jagged forge]

i want to use lean for something but idk what

[last creek]

Yeah, for things like HFT, I wonder if having possibility of memory leaks in your language is necessary to get every iota of performance possible

[solar hawk]

make a language like lean

[pulsar pagoda]

f# though

[jagged forge]

it seems like haskell with dependent types and theorem proving (also basically no standard library yet kek)

[untold sapphire]

yeah ocaml 5.1 still has like, some performance regressions compared to the last stable version of 4.14.

[visual breach]

Ocaml where outside of Jane Street

[untold sapphire]

this is more true of agda than lean

[jagged forge]

hm

[visual breach]

Yea seems like you confused the two

[pulsar pagoda]

ocaml is reliable fr

[solar hawk]

i dont wanna write anything large in those languages

[untold sapphire]

https://ocaml.org/industrial-users

[solar hawk]

i just wanna make one and be done

[jagged forge]

no, i have never used agda, but lean strikes me as very haskell-ish

[untold sapphire]

lol wagecuck ocaml

no i'm just kidding

[jagged forge]

well I guess because it’s pure and has monads

maybe very is overstating, I also have barely used lean

[visual breach]

Ok, I guess? idk why I never heard of these personally

[untold sapphire]

ok i'm done shilling ocaml

carry on

[jagged forge]

@pulsar pagoda did you see the mini pc i bought lmao

[pulsar pagoda]

like if the industry werent all dumbfucked on hype

i would see more people using ocaml