#serious-discussion | Mathematics | Page 119

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 6:50 AM

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libstdc++ is a runtime.

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 6:51 AM

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u mean the standard lib?

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 6:51 AM

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also, you can use nodefaultlibs with msvc cl.exe

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msvcrt is not mandatory

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In fact you can build UEFI executables with msvc

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 6:52 AM

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You work as a dev?

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 6:52 AM

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why yes

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 6:53 AM

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icy locust In fact you can build UEFI executables with msvc

mmm but can u do multiplatform development with msvc?

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nothing just good to know who is and inst cause it's a math server and all

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 6:53 AM

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pretty much the only widely used systems language that enforces runtime is golang imo

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 6:53 AM

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pulsar pagoda mmm but can u do multiplatform development with msvc?

as long as it's PE

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 6:55 AM

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as much as go pisses me off i do kind of miss it sometimes, after living in async rust hell for awhile

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 6:56 AM

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icy locust as long as it's PE

PE?

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:16 AM

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jagged forge as much as go pisses me off i do kind of miss it sometimes, after living in asyn...

is it promised based?

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like js?

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cause if it is i'm not gonna lie it sounds like it

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:17 AM

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no, async in golang is automatic and invisible

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you just write code that looks blocking and it takes care of everything for you

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or are you asking about rust

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:18 AM

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rust

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:18 AM

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async rust has “futures” which sort of look like js promises but are kind of different

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a future in rust is basically a state machine that you poll until it is ready, then it finishes by handing you data

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the cool thing about futures is that they require zero heap allocations, so you can use them in contexts where you don’t have dynamic memory allocation

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anyway you don’t have to think in terms of state machines, the idea is you sprinkle async/await in your procedural code and the compiler generates a state machine like something you would hand-write in C

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:22 AM

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and u can have a callback i gather

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that acts in that future?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:22 AM

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not really, no callbacks are involved

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:22 AM

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ohh

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so data gets send back to the main context?

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like in a variable

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:23 AM

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ummm yeah i think so, if i understand what you are asking

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:23 AM

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but if it's polling then ur blocking

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that would be put on a thread sutomatically?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:23 AM

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well, no, if you’re polling you’re just checking if data is ready

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you can go do other things while it’s not ready

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like switching to polling other futures

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:24 AM

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polling_(computer_science)#:~:text=3 Poll message-,Description,has received the next character.

Polling (computer science)

Polling, or interrogation, refers to actively sampling the status of an external device by a client program as a synchronous activity. Polling is most often used in terms of input/output (I/O), and is also referred to as polled I/O or software-driven I/O. A good example of hardware implementation is a watchdog timer.

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yeah so it's a way of handling multi threading

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by not blocking the Main thread

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i gather?

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and then sending events to the main thread

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:25 AM

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well, it’s a way of handling concurrency. you don’t really even need multiple threads to use async rust

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:25 AM

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once the future has been fullfilled?

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concurrency is about múltiple actors accesing a resource

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:26 AM

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right, but you can do concurrency without having multiple threads, which is what JavaScript does

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:26 AM

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why not just block the Main thread until resource is readt?

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yes

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that is called polling

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:27 AM

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well if you block the main thread you can’t do anything else

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:27 AM

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which blocks

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or would u handle

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:27 AM

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so one thing you might want to do is respond to other signals while waiting on some work to be done

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:27 AM

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the data once the thread stops polling?

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on that same thread

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and the thread has a lock ?

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on the data

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:28 AM

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so typically what one does in rust is pulls in an async runtime, which is not included in the standard library in rust

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your async runtime will manage a collection of concurrent tasks you give it

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if one of your tasks does any IO or waiting of any kind, the executor will switch to another task while waiting on that

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:30 AM

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is async typically handled the same by most programming languages, I'm trying to learn more about it to solve some python code involving asyncio and receiving packets and wondering how strict I need to be with my reading

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:31 AM

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static loom is async typically handled the same by most programming languages, I'm trying to...

no

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u should read about concurrency and multithreading

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:31 AM

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I found myself starting to look at bytes and realized I need to turn back

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

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i am not sure how asyncio works in python sorry

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

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I originally had threads but I ran into race conditions because I'm trying to receive too many responses simultaneously

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

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then what u want is events

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have a thread that just listens for the request

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

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I don't really know how to work out sorting my responses out without mangling them, but I'm pretty sure asyncio is what I need, not threads

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

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place it in a data store

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and have a second thread be send a message

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that there is stuff to process

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async is threads

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:33 AM

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my conceptualization of it is something like, there's a buffer "out there" that receives the packets and somehow it's giving them to me, which is what my futures are, really just the results of the coroutines

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:33 AM

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just with less verbosity

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:34 AM

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what do you mean by data store

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I don't think you understand my problem

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:34 AM

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i mean a variable that holds the data received by the polling thread

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:34 AM

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I'm trying to ssh into, say 50 devices, wait for about 8 seconds for a response from each, and most come in at around the same time

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:35 AM

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ohh

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:35 AM

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this is where I end up getting mangled results with my threads

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:35 AM

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so u don't have to be continuosly listening?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:35 AM

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yikes, like a data race? i thought python was supposed to prevent that

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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well I mean I believe it can be done in python

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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i am sure it can

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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which is why i said u should just leave a thread listening for the data

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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I dont' know past what I've seen on like stack overflow and reading some of the docs

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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that way u make sure to receive all packets

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:36 AM

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but it's just not clear to me how to accomplish that, and I'm tired of reading haha

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:37 AM

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static loom I'm trying to ssh into, say 50 devices, wait for about 8 seconds for a response ...

is there like a join thing in python that takes n async things and waits for them all concurrently

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:37 AM

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idk

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:37 AM

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pulsar pagoda which is why i said u should just leave a thread listening for the data

I guess I don't know how threads work under the hood to know that this is reliable or not

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:37 AM

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threads in python are super ez

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:38 AM

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I know there's this whole GIL thing and so I'm picturing it juggling between listening for a bit, then doing something else like sending packets - which would cause it to not receive them or something idk

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:38 AM

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https://docs.python.org/3/library/concurrent.futures.html#concurrent.futures.ThreadPoolExecutor

Python documentation

concurrent.futures — Launching parallel tasks

Source code: Lib/concurrent/futures/thread.py and Lib/concurrent/futures/process.py The concurrent.futures module provides a high-level interface for asynchronously executing callables. The asynchr...

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:38 AM

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I guess this can be handled by TCP asking for it to resend or something, I just don't know what's actually going on and I don't know how to gain visibility into that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:38 AM

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this uses threads in the background

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:38 AM

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why this vs asyncio

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I want to do async and I'm doing io, seems like what I really want

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there's a handful of different choices for concurrency it looks like in the standard library, I just don't know

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:39 AM

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static loom I guess this can be handled by TCP asking for it to resend or something, I just ...

what is the api you are using to do ssh, i am curious

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:39 AM

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I was using paramiko but that was when I was using threading

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:39 AM

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Screenshot_2023-10-22-01-39-39-243_com.android.chrome.jpg

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:40 AM

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I think that in and of itself won't work when switching to using asyncio, so I have started looking at switching to asyncSSH

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:40 AM

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async execution of callables

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aka callbacks

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:40 AM

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I just haven't started yet at implementing it, cause it's the weekend

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:41 AM

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im gonna be honest my experience with ssh is basically using the ssh command or using it through applications lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:41 AM

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what are u trying to do with ssh?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:41 AM

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it sounds like you are dealing with low level stuff like tcp/ip though

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:41 AM

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is it file copying?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:42 AM

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this is about 50% of my choice of using asyncio over concurrent.futures

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and I read some convincing stack overflow answer

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past that I know nothing

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:43 AM

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wait

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:43 AM

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I'm just looking for arguments like pros/cons of each choice

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:43 AM

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ur communicating between múltiple processes?

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i need more context

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what are u doing through ssh

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?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:44 AM

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ssh into the device, send some long running commands, then receive their response after about 10 seconds or so

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:44 AM

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well he is doing ssh which involves network communication

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:44 AM

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and I do this several times to each device let's say

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then I take the responses and I save them all to one file all concatenated basically

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although they don't need to be, it doesn't matter for my purposes

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I end up running stuff to filter through those logs

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but at that point the networking part is over with

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:45 AM

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mm seems like orchestration is needed

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:45 AM

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so i can forget the stuff you said about tcp and packets, cuz that sounds a bit low level for what you are doing

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:46 AM

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yeah I think it's too low level

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that's like layer 3/4, I want to work at like layer 7

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:46 AM

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it’s a shell, you’re sending commands, surely you get text or just a stream of bytes back?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:46 AM

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yeah, it's a stream of bytes

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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okay, we can work with that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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are u having multiple ssh sessions at the same time?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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I don't know how to ensure my stream of bytes doesn't get mangled between the different requests

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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have you made something that works for just 1 device yet

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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or just executing each ssh sessions sequentially?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:47 AM

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yeah I've successfully done this with threading

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but my results ended up being chopped up

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mostly they were fine, but a few of them were cut off, like halfway through one log was the log of adifferent device

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at least that's what I'm interpretting as a race condition of my threading

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:48 AM

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sounds like it

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:48 AM

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oh you’re saving everything to the same file though

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:48 AM

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yeah, I think I see what you're starting to get at

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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if you append to the file from the stream directly, then yeah i would expect it to get interleaved

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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theres also the problem of using the same port for the ssh

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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I should be saving to individual files and then combine them later somehow

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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to multiple machines

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yeah

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so

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listen

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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static loom I should be saving to individual files and then combine them later somehow

i would collect the stream in memory, then write to the file in one go actually, unless that is impractical

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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pulsar pagoda theres also the problem of using the same port for the ssh

pretty sure that's not an issue at all

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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ports in linux

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are files

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so each session

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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each connection will have it's own separate ephemeral port

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:49 AM

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ok

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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that sounds right

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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then u need to listen on those specific ports

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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jagged forge i would collect the stream in memory, then write to the file in one go actually,...

I'm not sure what that means honestly

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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what that means

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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when my program is running, unless I'm writing to a file, I should assume it's just all in RAM, and that's what you mean right

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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is u have a thread listening to every message

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and it doesnt process the message

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:50 AM

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like save each file to some array or dictionary for each host

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:51 AM

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it just stores it in memory

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:51 AM

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and then combine it after all the threads have ceased

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:51 AM

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static loom when my program is running, unless I'm writing to a file, I should assume it's j...

yeah i mean i figure there’s a byte string type or something in python

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:51 AM

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yeah there is

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then you can decode however you want like ascii, unicode, etc

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:51 AM

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yeah u could also save them in múltiple files

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and then join them

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i guess

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:52 AM

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I was sort of afraid it would be too much to hold in RAM

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:52 AM

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so just read the response into your byte string, then once you have all of the responses, write them one by one into the file

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how much data is it, do you have any idea?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:52 AM

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but maybe I'm underestimating howmuch RAM that device has, I haven't really checked

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I don't have any idea, I mean it's just text so it can't really be that much now that I'm thinking about it

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:52 AM

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or u could store them on a database like sqlite

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:52 AM

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maybe 3K lines of text logs per device

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:53 AM

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hmmm i feel like that shouldn’t be that much

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:53 AM

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I think before I was conflating the threading issue with reading from the buffer from the NIC (or however that works) rather than just me writing over the same file

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:54 AM

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well if each line were 1000 characters it’d be like 150mb, which is…. eh

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:54 AM

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so I think I'll try to see if I can fix it that way

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:54 AM

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yeah i wouldn’t worry about the NIC, i think the os is taking care of all that for you

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:54 AM

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jagged forge well if each line were 1000 characters it’d be like 150mb, which is…. eh

wouldnt it be better to use a database at that point

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?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:55 AM

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Yeah I think you're right

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the lines are about, 100 or so characters probably

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actually maybe 511

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:55 AM

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3k times 100 30000

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times 50

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i would not handle that with python alone

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:56 AM

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pulsar pagoda wouldnt it be better to use a database at that point

database adds complexity, might be useful for what he’s doing, might be a waste of time, idk

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:56 AM

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he says it's more than 100 average

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:56 AM

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I throw away the logs after reading them anyways

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I might even just try filtering them as I receive them instead

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I'm only picking out certain pieces

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@pulsar pagoda @jagged forge thanks this has been really helpful

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:57 AM

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should be fine if you read all of it, based on our napkin math, but filtering shouldn’t be hard either

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:57 AM

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not stopping the conversation, just like, at a good point here

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:58 AM

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yeah

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try to get rid of the unnecessary text asap

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:59 AM

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yeah, it's clearer to me now how I was sort of misguided a bit earlier, I guess I have a semi lingering doubt about threading and the NIC

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:59 AM

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the python GC could kick u in the balls

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:59 AM

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well it is good you are thinking about what the hardware is doing, i just think you were a bit confused

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:59 AM

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but i think @jagged forge knows more about that

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 7:59 AM

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I feel like the threading bounces between being off/on to turn the other ones on, but the NIC is sort of always "on" so it seems like there would be a mismatch between it feeding data

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I am pretty sure how I'm thinking about is not how it really works at all though, so I'm not really too bothered by that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:00 AM

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static loom I feel like the threading bounces between being off/on to turn the other ones on...

it's cause u probably have no OS knowledge

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:00 AM

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I just wish I knew what actually happens

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:00 AM

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not a Bad thing

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:00 AM

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there's a kernel, there's some syscalls, there's some gpu pixies, etc etc...

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:00 AM

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OS handles operations with the hardware for u

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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it goes nic buffer -> kernel buffer -> application buffer

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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yes

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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each buffer will hold your packets more or less until they are needed

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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are all these buffers literally locations in RAM?

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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but replace application by userspace

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so kernel space buffer to userspace buffer

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:01 AM

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static loom are all these buffers literally locations in RAM?

well the NIC has its own buffer on the card itself

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:02 AM

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static loom are all these buffers literally locations in RAM?

yes

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:02 AM

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I see, that makes sense

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:02 AM

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cause ur using cpu

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for thks

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this*

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:02 AM

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so it's sort of waiting to pass that on to the kernel buffer ASAP

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otherwise it'll have to start dumping data on us

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:02 AM

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the kernel handles a service

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through a interface file

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that service is interacted with by applications

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through a API

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:03 AM

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that's starting to make sense, there's like an ADHD hamster in the kernel that like redirects what it's focused on, and so some of that time it's unloading stuff from the NIC's buffer for instance, is that fair to say

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:03 AM

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yes timesharing scheduler

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is called

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

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static loom so it's sort of waiting to pass that on to the kernel buffer ASAP

yeah if you don’t read packets fast enough in your application, stuff gets backed up and the kernel or the nic can drop packets, but i wouldn’t worry about that too much for now

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

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I'm only worried about it as far as I know I'm receiving a lot of data at once

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

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which is why

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

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and in the future I'll probably extend this to get even more data so I'm tryign to work out how I'd troubleshoot that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

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u don't want to stop the flow of data

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so thats why i suggested just keeping the thread on listening

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:05 AM

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pulsar pagoda try to get rid of the unnecessary text asap

this sounds to be in contradiction with this, but I don't know the relative times of events

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I feel like I'm grabbing it, filtering it rather than just tucking it away to look at later

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I think I see what you were saying earlier now, maybe future me needs a database, but I'll hold off for now

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:06 AM

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yes but grabing it can happen while u receive another losd

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load*

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i feel like there should be a premade solution for ur problem already

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somewhere

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:07 AM

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you would think

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:07 AM

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sounds like you are ingesting logs

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:08 AM

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give me a sec

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going to get something to eat

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:08 AM

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there probably is

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I guess I'm still forgetting TCP handles error correction

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so it doesn't matter if the NIC drops stuff, it'll ask to resend it

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or something below me will if not the NIC

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I don't know where that's actually delegated to

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:09 AM

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i am not sure at which layer tcp is handled

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i guess the nic?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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Feels more programmy to me

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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or the kernel

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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tcp handles error correction

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yes

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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if we're talking OSI model, I think the NIC basically handles layer 1 and maybe some layer 2

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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and ur using ssh

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that uses tcp

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

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so I'm guessing the kernel/software is handling above that

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:11 AM

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yeah i think the kernel is handling retransmission

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:11 AM

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pulsar pagoda that uses tcp

yeah, only reason I'm talking about it haha

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:11 AM

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but the nic is definitely dealing with ip

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:11 AM

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https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ansible/builtin/ssh_connection.html

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:11 AM

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jagged forge but the nic is definitely dealing with ip

you sure about that?

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I don't think it has that kind of capability

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:12 AM

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no opencry but i think the nic does some things based on ip addresses

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maybe i am thinking of switches

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:12 AM

#

the NIC should have an asic that handles tcp and other stuff

#

switches do that too

#

at a bigger scale

#

@jagged forge check what i sent

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:13 AM

#

I think at most it's looking at the CRC to determine if it should drop, and then checking the destination MAC matches before stripping the ethernet frame on to send it on up the chain

#

I guess it can continue to handle things for all I know

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

bro you know more about this than me opencry

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

lol

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

but i would not be surprised if some nics have tcp/ip stuff directly on them

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

I could see there being an asic though, that sounds reasonable

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

shit some nics have a full operating system on them

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

at least in a dedicated network device like a switch or router

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:14 AM

#

smart nics

#

i have worked with an fpga nic that could filter packets

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:15 AM

#

I have no idea how I'd actually confirm any of this, is there a way to peek into my laptop's NIC's firmware lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:15 AM

#

https://www.cherryservers.com/blog/how-to-run-remote-commands-with-ansible-shell-module

Cherry Servers

How to Run Remote Commands with Ansible Shell Module | Cherry Servers

Ansible Shell Module allows you to directly execute commands on the shell of remote targets. Learn how to start using the Shell Module in your Ansible playbooks

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:15 AM

#

static loom I have no idea how I'd actually confirm any of this, is there a way to peek into...

dont

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

ok I tried using ansible in the past

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

u can use wireshark

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

but it was just a bunch of shitty yaml config files

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

static loom but it was just a bunch of shitty yaml config files

did u set it up?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

yaml engineering opencryfried

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

I couldn't get it working but that was a long time ago

#

I might give it another try but the thought of it makes me cringe

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

cause i know how to use kt

#

it*

#

i used to be the dev ops guy

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:17 AM

#

personally i would just stand up a log database

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:17 AM

#

for My last gig

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:17 AM

#

and point all of my applications at the log database

#

and have them push logs to the database

#

if what you want is logging anyway

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:17 AM

#

so for the thing of going through packets

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

centralized logging

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

that's not a bad idea but these logs aren't really that useful, I rarely need them

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

u can use something called wireshark

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

ah, then maybe just have a script that collects them on demand, like you’re doing

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

it's just to check them, consolidate some info, then reissue some commands out to them

#

I also don't want to set up a dedicated logging server haha

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

if your logs are json you can filter them down with jq, otherwise grep is also your friend

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:18 AM

#

we have other ones like that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

so

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

static loom I also don't want to set up a dedicated logging server haha

tell me about it starebleak

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

I used to filter them with awk

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

ur running a Windows laptop?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

awk is my favorite programming language

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

awk is also good, i am a noob at it

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

static loom awk is my favorite programming language

awk is super efficient

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

I have wireshark

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

if ur a bash good

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

but what will that do for me

#

I'm a bash god

#

🤣

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

pulsar pagoda PE?

PE/COFF to be exact. The object code format primarily used by Windows.

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

i hate bash starebleak

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

like the Windows ABI?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

actually i like bash, just not for long term things

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

pulsar pagoda u can use wireshark

what am I using wireshark for

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

i like command line stuff

#

i hate maintaining bash scripts

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

#

static loom what am I using wireshark for

tracking packets if u want

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

I use bash/vim/awk/sed mostly all day every day

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

vim gigachad

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

what am I tracking packets for

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

in the house

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

wireshark is a cool way to peer under the hood, see what packets are being sent to where and stuff

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

static loom what am I tracking packets for

nothing

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

getting it to work with tls is annoying tho

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

u just mentioned wanting to SEE what happens at the NIC

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

yeah, like the NIC buffer

#

like how to see it's memory usage stuff

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

ok im not sure wireshark will help with that lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

mmm

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

pulsar pagoda like the Windows ABI?

part of, yeah

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

no it would not

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

I'm more interested in seeing what all it's handling, is it just handling MAC addresses or does it also deal with IPs and TCP ports?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

there should be some commands that show you your network cards and how many packets you have tx/rx and stuff

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:22 AM

#

static loom I'm more interested in seeing what all it's handling, is it just handling MAC ad...

it should

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:23 AM

#

jagged forge there should be some commands that show you your network cards and how many pack...

yeah, I might google around for that kind of thing

#

but # of packets is not really granular enough for what I'm trying to undertand

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:23 AM

#

there’s a Linux cli tool called bmon that i like

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:23 AM

#

@pulsar pagoda with ansible can you run code with it too?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:23 AM

#

static loom but # of packets is not really granular enough for what I'm trying to undertand

the network card i was working with had a TUI that showed you all sorts of metrics, like how much stuff was in the buffers. but i think that was a heavy duty network card

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:24 AM

#

yes

#

it's pretty limited but You should be able too

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:24 AM

#

from what I saw I was sorta hamstrung to just putting in specific lines over ssh, I didn't get too far before I decided to just try to do it all in python directly since that seemed more comfortable to me

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:24 AM

#

also u only need to set it up on ur machine

#

since it's daemonless

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:24 AM

#

yeah, kind of like I'm doing

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:25 AM

#

jagged forge i hate maintaining bash scripts

yea set -euo pipefail or bust

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:25 AM

#

jagged forge the network card i was working with had a TUI that showed you all sorts of metri...

interesting, I'll check out bmon

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:25 AM

#

so are u working on a mac

#

or a Windows computer?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:25 AM

#

static loom interesting, I'll check out bmon

bmon does not do this i think

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:26 AM

#

checking it out regardless

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:26 AM

#

cause powershell has some automátion thats right there with ansible

#

and it's better documented

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:26 AM

#

it was a special cli program that came with the drivers. not sure if there is a similar general thing you can use on linux

#

that works for any card

#

if you find one let me know, that would be sick

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:27 AM

#

u can always just have a terminal listen to the output of the file

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:27 AM

#

sure, yeah I should clarify the device doing the sshing is a red hat vm

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:27 AM

#

since the socket file would have all packet data

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

static loom sure, yeah I should clarify the device doing the sshing is a red hat vm

and from the client SIDE?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

I might be able to use a windows server to do it though, but I know barely any powershell

#

yeah

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

like what are u using

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

PS> Shutdown-Computer

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

this was on bmon’s github page

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:28 AM

#

Windows or Mac ?

#

as ur working machine

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:29 AM

#

ooh multicast packets. my company deals with multicast

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:29 AM

#

I'm working on the red hat box and running code off it

#

I just ssh into it to run scripts on the network

#

and I'll modify/experiment with them there too

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:30 AM

#

ahh ok

#

yeah ansible makes sense there

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:30 AM

#

tell me more about ansible, you said it's limited but you can code

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:31 AM

#

it's a orchestration tool

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:31 AM

#

I felt like it was kinda janky and I was fighting it a lot

#

like I just wanted to write code but it was trying to make me write these grating config files

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:31 AM

#

so it's supposed to be used to execute in distributed environment

#

once that yml is written that would execute on each instance

#

separately

#

so if u wanted to lets Say install something in 300 vms

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

static loom like I just wanted to write code but it was trying to make me write these gratin...

have you heard of kubernetes opencryfried

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

it would do it

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

so for instance, if I would want to ssh into each device, show log then would I be able to filter the data all collected to create new commands, then send those all back out - all without leaving ansible?

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

or modern cloud developers opencryfried

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

jagged forge have you heard of kubernetes <:opencryfried:1115546874728939630>

yeah

#

fortunately that's not my responsibility

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

if u have to set up k8s manually u usually use ansible

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:33 AM

#

cool in concept though

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

saltstack

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

static loom so for instance, if I would want to ssh into each device, `show log` then would...

it should but i'm not that good with bash

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

I'm sorta aware of puppet/ansible/chef/salt but I feel like those are for people who don't know how to program

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

eh

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

if u can write the bash script that does it go for it

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

but they might just be nice conveniences to have too

#

I mean, more of a "pickign the right tool for the job" kind of thing

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:34 AM

#

yed

#

yes

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

I'd rather not write a bash script

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

think about reinventing syslogd

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

yeah

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

also ansible is the tool of choice of the eth Zurich hpc cluster

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

we had log collection from distributed systems from 90s

#

I mean, still better than bash script

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

pulsar pagoda also ansible is the tool of choice of the eth Zurich hpc cluster

what's that

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

Google eth Zurich

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

well right now I'm using python script, although originally it was a bash script actually

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

what is the hpc cluster

#

that’s what I’m curious about

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

but I just went ahead and rewrote it cause it was easier to maintain

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

a high perfomance computing ckuster

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

pulsar pagoda a high perfomance computing ckuster

what is a cluster in this context

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

a bunch of computers

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

some say python is a better bash, though i know some people hate that sentiment lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:37 AM

#

python is ok for somethings

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:37 AM

#

I use both, they're just easy and ubiquitous

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:37 AM

#

yup

#

both are on most linux systems

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:37 AM

#

like if i have to copy stuff

#

i usually scp

#

and such

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:38 AM

#

yeah I use scp relatively often

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:38 AM

#

i don’t mind bash until you start doing anything more than 15 lines and with 2 levels of nesting

#

but also im just not that good at bash

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:38 AM

#

it sorta grows on ya

#

the more I do it, the more I do it

#

and I guess the default hotkeys are emacs too, I sort of acquire more and more as I go

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:39 AM

#

it does feel appealing in that it is quite minimal

#

and pipes are nice

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:39 AM

#

it's nice to live off the land so to speak

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:39 AM

#

but i hate expressing logic in bash

#

i like expressing dataflow and pipes and stuff

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:39 AM

#

it's sorta goofy at times

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

emacs

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

yeah I don't fully get it, that's why I use shellcheck when it's something I'm not throwing away

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

jagged forge some say python is a better bash, though i know some people hate that sentiment ...

That’s a cringe take imo

#

Because I use bash more

#

therefore python is worse

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

mostly I'm throwing stuff away though, I'm usually doing some awk and sed to filter/organize commands from one thing into another thing to "pipe" it on its way

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

like people think i'm a low Level hard headed programmer

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:40 AM

#

who hates python

#

i really dont

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:41 AM

#

I hated it when I first started learning it a long time ago, cause all I knew was Java

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:41 AM

#

i just wish people wouldnt SEE everything as a nail

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:41 AM

#

and I missed that clarity of knowing the types of stuff going in and out on the first line, just irritated me

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:41 AM

#

static loom I hated it when I first started learning it a long time ago, cause all I knew wa...

Java is such a better language tbh

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:41 AM

#

then I got over it, and became a reckless python programmer

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:42 AM

#

i'm gonna finish foobar in java

#

just u watch

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:42 AM

#

haha I don't know if I'd go back but I think a lot of concepts I learned in Java have helped me understand python better than if I had only ever learned python or something

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:42 AM

#

java was my second language

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:42 AM

#

My first was cpp

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:43 AM

#

I only learned it cause I was interested in programming android apps and my brother was making money making minecraft mods in Java, so I read through Headfirst Java and another android Java programming book, downloaded eclipse and went on my way

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:43 AM

#

that sounds pretty epic

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:43 AM

#

I hate big IDEs like that

#

they feel big and clunky on my 2013 computer

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

it was a pain in the ass

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

are you a vim person?

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

jagged forge are you a vim person?

Yeah

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

nice

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

switched to neovim recently

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

my coworker convinced me to try neovim and i loved it at first

#

but in the interest of getting shit done i have reverted to vscode

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

I have neovim on my home computer but I just use regular vim elsewhere, unless they just have vi

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

trying to setup a Haskell lsp without crappy JavaScript shit

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

neovim is so pretty though, with the right setup

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

i usually have my .vimrc in github

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

I'm usually too lazy to edit my .vimrc, there are a handful of changes I have to make or I'm miserable though

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

haskell is pretty fun

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

I just download some random .vimrc off github and edit it up a little

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:46 AM

#

Haskell is fun because they typing is strong enough I never get runtime errors

#

it’s all at compile time

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:46 AM

#

yeah they say that

#

haskell is provably awesome etc

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:46 AM

#

if u like Haskell u would like f#

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:47 AM

#

most of the code I write is like garbage to get a job done as fast as possible, if I see a corner case I'll fix it if I have to, avoid it otherwise

#

I'm writing a bunch of one liner type crap

#

awk is my favorite programming language lol

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:47 AM

#

if you want provably awesome code, lean 4 is a fully fledged dependently typed pure functional language as well as a theorem prover

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:47 AM

#

static loom most of the code I write is like garbage to get a job done as fast as possible, ...

You can have compile settings at the top to loosen the restrictions

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:48 AM

#

are u talking about that spec writing lang?

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:48 AM

#

so it compiles with warnings or with nothing

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:48 AM

#

by Leslie lamport?

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:48 AM

#

I learned a bit of haskell (for great good?) a long while back, but I didn't get too into it

#

I have heard some good things about closure/lisp but afraid to get sucked into the cult

#

functional programmers are cultists

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:48 AM

#

i consider python a cult

#

to an extent

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:49 AM

#

pulsar pagoda are u talking about that spec writing lang?

no, lean was originally a theorem prover for mathematics but with lean 4 they made it a full programming language and reimplemented lean’s theorem prover in lean

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:49 AM

#

pulsar pagoda i consider python a cult

if you consider python a cult you are in for a rude awakening when you meet go or rust programmers opencryfried

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:49 AM

#

i know some

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:49 AM

#

I think python just has a super low barrier to entry and it's just very accessible. It's got that social network effect, like if you're tryign to do something someone's probably already done it kind of thing. I lean on that as one of its key strengths imo.

#

I would use it less if didn't have that

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:49 AM

#

static loom haskell is provably awesome etc

Anything with Hindley-Milner type inference is awesome to me

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:50 AM

#

all I care about is maximizing my possibility of someone else having written the code for me out there

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:50 AM

#

static loom I think python just has a super low barrier to entry and it's just very accessib...

low barrier to entry, popular, large ecosystem, etc

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:51 AM

#

teal lion Anything with Hindley-Milner type inference is awesome to me

I can get the speed of dynamic typing and the safety of strong typing at the same time

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:51 AM

#

popular and large ecosystem doesnt necessarily translate to good u know

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:51 AM

#

teal lion Anything with Hindley-Milner type inference is awesome to me

awesome until you get insane type inference errors in your generically generic functions catscream

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:51 AM

#

c# generics to the rescue

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:51 AM

#

pulsar pagoda popular and large ecosystem doesnt necessarily translate to good u know

popular often does translate to higher quality libraries

#

as someone who works with less popular languages i have felt this

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

jagged forge awesome until you get insane type inference errors in your generically generic f...

You can still give type declarations

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

i do think the dotnet ecosystem is of a higher Quality than the python one

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

rust and go are not even unpopular but the ecosystem is lacking in certain areas

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

true

teal lion Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

And the type inference errors being insane is a good sign you’ve written shitty code

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

give them time

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:53 AM

#

i had a good time with Haskell until i ran into monad transformers

#

that was like, my tipping point in terms of what i could handle

#

i wanted to eliminate my monad sandwiches which were causing me to write annoying nested matches

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:55 AM

#

don't let sharp hear u

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:55 AM

#

we’re safe, it’s like 4am lol he’s asleep

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 8:55 AM

#

jagged forge i wanted to eliminate my monad sandwiches which were causing me to write annoyin...

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sandwhich-bread-kitty-kitten-gif-24293158

Tenor

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:56 AM

#

cats are My mortal enemy

#

Bruno died running after a cat

#

the cat also died tjoi

#

though

#

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:56 AM

#

that fucking sucks

#

i am sorry he died in such a way

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:57 AM

#

mom told me today how she saw the light going out of his eyes

#

he's moving his tail in heaven

#

he was a good Christian dog

#

aint Even joking

#

he SAT with mom to watch the church sermon on sunday

#

didnt make a noise

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 8:58 AM

#

sounds like he was the goodest of boys

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:59 AM

#

coco is sad

#

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:59 AM

#

pulsar pagoda Google eth Zurich

ETH Zürich?

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:59 AM

#

yeah

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 8:59 AM

#

ye they research a lot of stuff

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 AM

#

i have access to the cluster

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 AM

#

:O

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 AM

#

but i don't want to make appointment

#

cause their really strict

#

if i'm going to do an appointment for the cluster i want to have everything ready so i don't waste time

#

on thinking the setup of the sim

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:02 AM

#

sheeeesh 50000 cores

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:02 AM

#

yeah it would be helpful if they made full ansible configuration (minus actual topology details) readily available, so that workloads could be locally tested be before submission

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 AM

#

nope they give u a subset of the actual compute

#

as a vm

#

and then u set Ur shit there

#

or a couple of vms

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 AM

#

is it x86?

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 AM

#

they have both x86 and arm

#

plus fpgas

#

and gpus

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 AM

#

Ooooo fpga clusters nom

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:04 AM

#

yeah i'm doing hls

#

remember

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:04 AM

#

next they should get a quantum

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:04 AM

#

icy locust next they should get a quantum

onur mutlu disagreed

#

i think

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:04 AM

#

yeah it's pretty useless yet iiuc

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 AM

#

sharing 100 qubits is different from sharing 50000 cores i imagine lol

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 AM

#

we can't get to that number of qbits yet

#

i think

#

Google it

#

i can be wrong

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 AM

#

why is it so hard to make more than a handful of qubits

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 AM

#

anyone can run stuff on ibm's quantum computer, see how much that is https://docs.quantum-computing.ibm.com/start/hello-world

IBM Quantum Documentation

Hello world | IBM Quantum Documentation

Hello world notebook

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 AM

#

material scientists have a better grasp at the problem

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 AM

#

they give you some amount of computation time per month for free

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 AM

#

so ibm has a computer with 433 qubits

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

nevermind then

#

i said nothing

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

whack

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

i know there is a difference between physical and logical qubits tho

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

the NSA is hackin' everybody with that no doubt

#

shit ansible is owned by red hat, which in turn is owned by ibm

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

cuz a decade ago d-wave advertised 2000 qubits and scott aaronson roasted them

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 AM

#

ah yes, the transitive relation

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:08 AM

#

that's how they getcha

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:09 AM

#

so u need more than one physical qbit for a logical one

#

cause u have to take error correction into account

#

thats what i gathered from the wiki

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:11 AM

#

makes sense

#

they do that with regular bits too, so no reason it would be different I suppose

#

error correction that is

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:13 AM

#

yeah

#

going to sleep

#

cya in 7 hours

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:13 AM

#

later, I probably should too

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:15 AM

#

i am going to be so fucked up in terms of sleep on monday

#

maybe i will just do an all nighter at this point

static loom Oct 22, 2023, 9:41 AM

#

jagged forge maybe i will just do an all nighter at this point

that'll make it worse lol

icy locust Oct 22, 2023, 10:38 AM

#

jagged forge if you want *provably* awesome code, lean 4 is a fully fledged dependently typed...

Does it support extraction into rust????

last creek Oct 22, 2023, 1:25 PM

#

icy locust Does it support extraction into rust????

Lol

vital jay Oct 22, 2023, 3:22 PM

#

what is reverse chain rule

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 4:13 PM

#

vital jay what is reverse chain rule

Try deriving it yourself

#

but, it's || u-sub ||

frank orchid Oct 22, 2023, 4:19 PM

#

I struggle to evaluate equations

#

I know what i’m doing, but I make a lot of arthimatic mistakes with algebra

#

Do I need mental math skills or…

last creek Oct 22, 2023, 4:23 PM

#

Just practice

#

Imo

#

It can help to consciously slow down and value correctness over speed

#

While learning to use some concept or formula, also try to develop methods to check your work if possible

balmy fulcrum Oct 22, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

last creek Just practice

hi big bro ur complex no link really helped me

#

thanks for that '

inland raft Oct 22, 2023, 5:07 PM

#

@autumn onyx actually i think those are not equal

last creek Oct 22, 2023, 5:25 PM

#

balmy fulcrum hi big bro ur complex no link really helped me

Np, glad to help

solar hawk Oct 22, 2023, 6:12 PM

#

static loom anyone can run stuff on ibm's quantum computer, see how much that is https://doc...

does it cost money

#

nvm lol i figured it out

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 7:28 PM

#

@jagged forge take a look at this

#

https://github.com/mono/CppSharp

GitHub

GitHub - mono/CppSharp: Tools and libraries to glue C/C++ APIs to h...

Tools and libraries to glue C/C++ APIs to high-level languages - GitHub - mono/CppSharp: Tools and libraries to glue C/C++ APIs to high-level languages

sharp turtle Oct 22, 2023, 7:39 PM

#

Ello people from discussion 2

#

I am wapeanut

#

Or a peanut

#

No people😭

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 7:48 PM

#

interesting, it seems like they have some amount of support for templates, but there are a lot of issues eg this one

GitHub

Explicit Template Instantiation / templated methods support · Issue...

CppSharp currently does not support exposing templated functions and methods, at least I haven't found a good way to do it yet. So, for example, if we have the following class: __declspec(dllex...

#

based on what i have read, i am guessing you can use a concrete instantiation of a template but not the (unbound) template itself

#

one of the developers goes into more detail in this blog post from 2017: https://www.mono-project.com/community/google-summer-of-code/reports/2017/cppsharp-dimitar-dobrev/

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 8:55 PM

#

i wonder if theres a reason why unsafe code in c# cant use c# generics

#

@jagged forge cause the examples of code from c# dont have any generics at all

#

for example @jagged forge

#

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51159250/generic-for-unsafe-t-and-t-c-sharp-7-3

Stack Overflow

Generic for unsafe: T[,] and T[,,] - C# 7.3+

I run c# 7.3 so please no comments like 'this will never work'

I have 2 Classes with a common interface:
Image2D and Image3D and the Common Interface Image

public interface IImage<T, S> whe...

#

go at the top solution for this

#

and read the sentiment behind using unsafe

#

they dont give an argument against it

#

its more like i dont want to use unsafe

solar hawk Oct 22, 2023, 8:59 PM

#

Two pings in one message DAMN

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 PM

#

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/programming-guide/generics/constraints-on-type-parameters

Constraints on type parameters - C# Programming Guide - C#

Learn about constraints on type parameters. Constraints tell the compiler what capabilities a type argument must have.

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 PM

#

apparently you can only take pointers to “unmanaged types” according to this SO answer

Stack Overflow

Why is pointer to generic types not allowed?

For example, as an overloaded [] setter-getter,

public T this[int i]
{
    get
    {
        unsafe
        {
            T* p = (T*)hArr.ToPointer(); // hArr is a C++ ...

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:00 PM

#

so

#

there has to be a way of making constraints for the unmaged generic types to a integral type

#

cause the runtime itself supports those integral types

#

ive seen them on the runtime

#

say yes if ur following what i mean

#

if not ill explain in more detail

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

im not following but i am also not that interested in c# honestly

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

ok

#

so heres the thing

#

templates only allow the passing of integral types at instantiation

#

what this means is that when u use a template function u need to pass the type of the argument

#

and that type needs to be of a integral type

#

at compile time

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 PM

#

can’t you have templates that accept non integral types, i am confused

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 PM

#

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/is_integral

cpp/types/is integral

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 PM

#

jagged forge can’t you have templates that accept non integral types, i am confused

no

#

cause template signature functions need to be resolved at compile time

#

not at runtime

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:05 PM

#

i have definitely used templates with non integral types for things like json marshaling

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 PM

#

this is not possible in cpp

#

im certain of this

#

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/template_parameters

cpp/language/template parameters

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:06 PM

#

is std::unique_ptr<std::vector<T>> not an instance of a template with a non-integral type

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

jagged forge is `std::unique_ptr<std::vector<T>>` not an instance of a template with a non-in...

the std resolves to integral types

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

what does that mean

#

a vector is not an integer no matter how you look at it…

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:08 PM

#

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/type

cpp/language/type

#

the address to which it points is though

#

so a pointer address can be seen as a integer

#

with function composition

#

which in cpp terms is called overloading

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 9:10 PM

#

a vector is a struct with 3 pointer-sized fields

#

doesn’t seem pointer-ish to me

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:10 PM

#

a struct is a pointer

#

sec

#

i think im confusing pointers with references

#

also mind u

#

c doesnt have "variable references"

#

asking my cpp expert friend

#

ok

#

so heres the thing

#

last 6 messages

#

disregard them

#

u can pass a struct to a template argument

#

but u need to specify its type as the name u gave to the signature of that struct

#

in the c# documentation of microsoft ```In C#, a generic type parameter cannot itself be a generic, although constructed types can be used as generics. C++ does allow template parameters.

#

also c++ allows for having function passed to the template

#

as function pointers

#

thing is kind of convoluted it seems

#

mmm

#

the overloading can be overwhelming at first but people should be able to get the hang of it with time

#

just a guess though

#

key takeaway

#

all of ur templates calls should have types which are resolved at compile time

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:54 PM

#

@pulsar pagoda anything promising on qcomputing?

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:54 PM

#

idk enough math for it

#

but my phd friend

#

says its all hype

#

at the moment

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:55 PM

#

are they here?

#

idk the hype

#

i know it exists somewhat

#

but im not sure specifically what

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:55 PM

#

their like

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:55 PM

#

im thinking of playing around with qiskit

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:55 PM

#

were going to be able to do computations on stochastic functions

#

with more precision and shit

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:55 PM

#

o

#

ok

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:56 PM

#

and im like

#

u dont even want to learn measure theory for probability

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:57 PM

#

?

#

no u def do

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

thats the average mindset from people i see with hype over quantum computing

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

o

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

like my mindset is

#

im gonna focus on the current stuff at hand

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

i mean everyone i remember that hyped over it when I was in school never gave me any good reasons

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

so i can get to that

#

eventually

#

i deal with a lot of software people

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:59 PM

#

software ppl come in different varieties tho

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:59 PM

#

the python ones

loud snow Oct 22, 2023, 9:59 PM

#

them too

pulsar pagoda Oct 22, 2023, 9:59 PM

#

the ones that only want to do python

acoustic yarrow Oct 22, 2023, 10:20 PM

#

pulsar pagoda says its all hype

math nerd hype 🔥

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:50 PM

#

Hey anyone knows that feeling when you're trying to find a general formula for a parametric sequence and at each new order you find out your formula doesn't work anymore and you spend literal hours trying to understand it until past midnight at which point you're so obsessed with that problem you go to a math discord server to complain about it before going to bed?
Because I sure do

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:52 PM

#

sonic jungle Hey anyone knows that feeling when you're trying to find a general formula for a...

I've had a similar feeling with a different kind of problem

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:52 PM

#

Oh what was it?

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

it will be kinda long to describe the problem now

#

but I also feel ashamed because it turned out to have a simple solution opencry

#

I was dumb ngl

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:54 PM

#

Well, nice to know I'm not alone in this lmao

#

Oh last time I had that kind of problem the solution was everything but easy XD

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:55 PM

#

but the bond with problems that u spend hours on is real

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:55 PM

#

I basically found a general expression for Catalan numbers without even knowing about their existence somehow

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:55 PM

#

kinda becomes a part of u at that point

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:56 PM

#

sonic jungle I basically found a general expression for Catalan numbers without even knowing ...

combinatorics is super fun

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:56 PM

#

neat lintel but the bond with problems that u spend hours on is real

Yeah like those problems become basically your best friends

#

Once you solve them. Before that it's kind of a toxic relationship lol

neat lintel Oct 22, 2023, 10:58 PM

#

and after solving you will remember it forever

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:58 PM

#

For sure

sonic jungle Oct 22, 2023, 10:59 PM

#

neat lintel combinatorics is super fun

Wait you made me realize the problem I'm currently working on is combinatorics too 😂

#

Guess I just can't get enough of it

#

It is super fun though, you're right

#

Hopefully it's not Catalan numbers again cause it looks similar

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:16 PM

#

@jagged forge @burnt ledge

#

Ok so like

#

We're solving a nonlinear ODE right

#

So we get the homogenous and particular solution

#

The first two terms are the homogenous solution, the last term is the particular solution

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:18 PM

#

if its nonlinear does adding homogeneous and particular still work

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:18 PM

#

Isn't that usually how you solve nonlinear ODEs, it's been a while since I've taken ODEs lol

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:18 PM

#

mint patio The first two terms are the homogenous solution, the last term is the particular...

We can write the particular solution as

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

fffeatherrr

#

fffeatherrr

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

Now here's what's tripping me up

#

There are three obvious cases

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

i thought the ppint of homogenous/particular was using the linearity of the ODE to apply superposition, and adding any two solutions gives you another solution

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

r < 1, r = 1, and r > 1

#

We begin with the r < 1 and r > 1 cases

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

nonlinear bleak

#

do you mean a linear nonhomogeneous equation

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

oh

#

opencry

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

lol

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

yes

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

Thought so but trusted ur word more

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:21 PM

#

#

We can rewrite this as so

#

#

(Again isntead of F_0/(k-mw^2), we can write it as (F_0/k)/(1-r^2))

#

So for the r < 1 and r > 1 cases

#

My professor says assume initial conditions = 0

#

Then he plots the behavior of the particular solution only? Against the forcing function F = F_0 * cos(wt)

#

Which looks like this

#

This is for r < 1

#

This is for r > 1

#

Then we move onto the case that r = 1

#

now for this he just ??? plots the behavior of the whole solution ???

#

#

And so what I'm stuck on is

#

This is what my notes look like rn

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:25 PM

#

is the ODE by any chance damped forced harmonic motion

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:26 PM

#

Undamped, but yes

#

Undamped forced harmonic motion

#

So these are my notes rn

#

#

I just want a clean reason/transition from

#

"Oh first we plot x_p against F(t) for when r < 1 and r > 1" to "then we plot x (the whole thing) against t when r = 1"

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:27 PM

#

I cpuld go back to my first year notes and see how they prove this

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:27 PM

#

I know how

#

Don't worry

#

It's not a misunderstanding of the math

#

Purely like

#

how do I order my notes lmfao I don't like the way he does it

#

It's so random

#

oh first we focus on just the particular solution

#

for r < 1 and r > 1

#

but for r = 1 we focus on the whole solution

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:28 PM

#

I mean isnt for all three we are taking initial conditions = 0?

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:28 PM

#

Yes

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:28 PM

#

In all three cases, the whole solution = the particular solution

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

No

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

How

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

#

The first term and the last term are left over

acoustic yarrow Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

burnt ledge is the ODE by any chance damped forced harmonic motion

ode to joy

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

But the particular solution is only the last term

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

if initial conditions are zero then the sln to the homogenous is zero, and particular is all thats left

#

regardless of r, no?

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:30 PM

#

The homogenous solution is -F_0/(k-mw^2) * cos(w_n *t) no?

#

which is only 0 if F_0 is 0

#

F_0 is not an initial condition and we're assuming it's nonzero

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:31 PM

#

F0 is the nonhomogeneous part i think

#

Unless im pooping

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:32 PM

#

burnt ledge F0 is the nonhomogeneous part i think

Idk what this means

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:32 PM

#

fffeatherrr

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:32 PM

#

Yeag

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:32 PM

#

The homogenous solution is this

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:33 PM

#

the f0 only comes in when ur doing a particular solution, bc the homogenous part wojld be a solution to mx.. + kx = 0

#

Which doesnt even have an f0 term

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:33 PM

#

burnt ledge the f0 only comes in when ur doing a particular solution, bc the homogenous part...

I realized that right as I sent that oops lol

#

Ok can we restart somewhat?

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:34 PM

#

Sure

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:34 PM

#

Okay

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:34 PM

#

fffeatherrr

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:35 PM

#

Yega

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:35 PM

#

I'm even more confused now so bear with me

#

We said that the solution will be the sum of a homogenous and particular solution

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:35 PM

#

fffeatherrr

#

fffeatherrr

#

fffeatherrr

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:37 PM

#

so we do some math and find the constants and we get

#

#

when you compare terms it seems like the first two terms make up the homogenous solution and the last makes up the particular?

#

but that doesn't make sense because the homogenous solution shouldn't even have an F_0 term in it lol

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:40 PM

#

mint patio

but if we rewrite this

#

to this

#

then the first two terms make up the "homogenous part" and they match up with the solution obtained previously in my notes when we considered unforced motion

#

but that would mean that the second term is the particular solution

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:41 PM

#

fffeatherrr

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:41 PM

#

So now that doesn't add up sully

#

But whatever

#

I can turn a blind eye lol

#

But still that leaves me with trouble when I do my notes

#

Because if I say that I'm interested in the behavior of the particular solution only

#

Well ok clearly it depends on whether r < 1, r > 1, or r = 1

#

For r < 1 and r > 1 the math checks out

#

But when r = 1

fathom swallowBOT Oct 22, 2023, 11:45 PM

#

fffeatherrr

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:46 PM

#

So my professor rectifies that by taking the limit as r -> 1 <=> lim w -> w_n

#

But the thing is he takes the limit of the WHOLE solution

#

which gives you an indeterminate form (in the last term) and then you apply L'Hopital's rule and simplify and it's easy

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:47 PM

#

Okay i was working thru it and im confused now too

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:47 PM

#

fathom swallow **fffeatherrr**

But you can't do that here since you end up with a 1/0 form

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:47 PM

#

burnt ledge Okay i was working thru it and im confused now too

Confused about what?

burnt ledge Oct 22, 2023, 11:48 PM

#

idk what exactly, but i feel like im messing something up, or misremembering something, or forgetting something

#

which i havent done diffeqs since first year so its likely

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:49 PM

#

felt

jagged forge Oct 22, 2023, 11:55 PM

#

reminds me vaguely of bifurcation theory

mint patio Oct 22, 2023, 11:56 PM

#

I think the answer is that my professor just wanted to highlight how the particular solution behaved, since we already knew how the homogenous solution behaved

#

No? Maybe? Idk let me think more

#

It's pointless to think too hard over this lmao thank you but I think it's best to just move on @burnt ledge :P

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:02 AM

#

fathom swallow **fffeatherrr**

i am guessing this is wrong when r = 1

burnt ledge Oct 23, 2023, 12:20 AM

#

Messy

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_7eac6f15-76d5-4d9c-a087-fe75d26a7f67.jpg

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:21 AM

#

my experience solving recurrence relations (which are related to differential equations) tells me you just have to solve singular cases separately

#

i have never taken differential equations but i had to do some recurrence relations in my probability textbook recently

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:25 AM

#

Fucking hell

#

I hate recurrence relation

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:27 AM

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what are you doing recurrence relations for

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:30 AM

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jagged forge what are you doing recurrence relations for

My friend asked me

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To code something for him

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And the sequences were defined in terms of eachother 😭

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How do I code that? I’m not sure

last creek Oct 23, 2023, 12:31 AM

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Recursion is goated

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:32 AM

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last creek Recursion is goated

Recursion is goated

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But idk how to handle a defined in terms of b and b defined in terms of a.. 😭

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:32 AM

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well, just make two functions that call each other

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:33 AM

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How

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I was in cpp

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:33 AM

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a_n = f(b_{n-1})
b_n = g(a_{n-1})

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:34 AM

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Yea

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It didn’t work

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The first line would error

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:35 AM

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why

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:36 AM

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jagged forge why

Because b hasn’t been defined yet

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:36 AM

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then just define b?

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:36 AM

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Yeah

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Below

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If I define it above then

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Same thing backwards

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:37 AM

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aw

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that’s lame

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:37 AM

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Ikr

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:38 AM

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https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Mutual_recursion#C++

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here’s how you do it in c++ apparently

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:38 AM

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o

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Thanks

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:38 AM

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i think you do not need to make a class

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you can just declare f and g in a header file first

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and then implement them together

burnt ledge Oct 23, 2023, 12:40 AM

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yeag

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it shows that in the C example

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:40 AM

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Wait

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Huh

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Ohh

burnt ledge Oct 23, 2023, 12:40 AM

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except it doesnt do it another file but thats just how they decided

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:40 AM

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Right lol

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I’m fucking stupid

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Iv done this before 💀

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:41 AM

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oh can you just declare it and then implement it separately in the same file

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nice

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:41 AM

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Ye

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No cuz like

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Yk how lambdas are

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So my “declaration” of function a

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Included function b

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But if I just use normal fking functions it isn’t a big deal

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I’m dun

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 12:42 AM

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yeah lambdas are a bit annoying i guess

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:42 AM

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Yeah

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 12:54 AM

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amukh

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the chapter on functions

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of schaums outline

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covers recurrence relations

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go read it

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 12:54 AM

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pulsar pagoda of schaums outline

schaum's outline discrete math

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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pulsar pagoda schaum's outline discrete math

LMAO

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classic

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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classic u not knowing where to find stuff

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cause u have not read ur books?

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 1:12 AM

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pulsar pagoda classic u not knowing where to find stuff

I meant Classic since you like disc maths bro

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 1:12 AM

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pulsar pagoda cause u have not read ur books?

😭

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Man stop coming at me w the truth

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 1:12 AM

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bro

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im fucking reverse engineering drivers

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 1:12 AM

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Damn

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 1:12 AM

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and i have time to shit post

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like

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get ur shit together

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u can do it amuk

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we all know u can

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believe in urself my dude

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https://tenor.com/bSJSC.gif

Tenor

solar hawk Oct 23, 2023, 1:13 AM

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pulsar pagoda believe in urself my dude

Ty

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Ur a good friend dandida

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 1:14 AM

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https://tenor.com/baA69.gif

Tenor

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 3:36 AM

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@jagged forge u there?

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 3:37 AM

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hi

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 3:37 AM

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i need help

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theres a c object i need to get the info from

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in debug mode

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 3:37 AM

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use gdb i guess

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 3:37 AM

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im seeing this object in pdb

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mapped in a struct through ctypes

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https://github.com/Xilinx/XRT/blob/a839622180dc413e4b8428a10c1b7a212dfbd437/src/runtime_src/core/include/deprecated/xrt.h

GitHub

XRT/src/runtime_src/core/include/deprecated/xrt.h at a839622180dc41...

Xilinx Run Time for FPGA. Contribute to Xilinx/XRT development by creating an account on GitHub.

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xclDeviceInfo2

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i found it in the debugger is used for initializaing the board apparently

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i need to get the values the python script is using to map them to a cpp struct so i can use them

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i think this is not even the data yet

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just an array of tuples

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zzzz

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yes thats what it is

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fuck my life

terse comet Oct 23, 2023, 4:18 AM

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why is discussion-2 always just programming these days

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 4:20 AM

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cause im going schizo

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seeing shit code

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https://tenor.com/byETd.gif

Tenor

finite inlet Oct 23, 2023, 4:23 AM

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terse comet why is discussion-2 always just programming these days

Atleast it’s not haskell

pulsar pagoda Oct 23, 2023, 4:24 AM

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its python binding to c

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that deal with mmio

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and buffer allocations

neat lintel Oct 23, 2023, 4:37 AM

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mdPeepoCardRead

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Someone here worked at bostom dynamics right?

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Why did they not use AI for the robot?

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 4:37 AM

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terse comet why is discussion-2 always just programming these days

because we have nowhere else to go sadcat

neat lintel Oct 23, 2023, 4:37 AM

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It's so disappointing to learn that all of the robots movements are hand coded

jagged forge Oct 23, 2023, 4:37 AM

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we are fugitives in this server

sage prawn Oct 23, 2023, 4:52 AM

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Hello

pastel spruce Oct 23, 2023, 4:52 AM

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neat lintel Why did they not use AI for the robot?

What robot? And why AI?

neat lintel Oct 23, 2023, 6:14 AM

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pastel spruce What robot? And why AI?

https://tenor.com/view/killed-it-will-future-robots-and-ai-take-over-how-sci-fi-inspired-science-backflip-boston-dynamics-gif-19131565

Tenor

neat lintel Oct 23, 2023, 6:15 AM

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pastel spruce What robot? And why AI?

Ai so you don't need to hand code every movement the robots does

fervent flame Oct 23, 2023, 6:24 AM

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how would you go about using "AI"?

pastel spruce Oct 23, 2023, 6:47 AM

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neat lintel Ai so you don't need to hand code every movement the robots does

That'd be really nice honestly, but AI probably isn't at that stage yet. Or maybe it is (to some degree) but probably confined to a university lab or something. Feel free to drop links if you're aware of examples (I find this stuff interesting and would like to know what's out there).

If they coded everything it's probably to make sure that the robot can perform reliably. Using AI might be possible, but given some of the ways it's implemented I'd imagine analyzing the system's performance and trying to fix bugs is probably more troublesome than a more "classical" approach. Industry tends to be a bit more conservative and slow from what I've witnessed (which is reasonable if you want your stuff to be reliable).

I'm no expert, but that's my two cents (or educated guess I suppose).

celest idol Oct 23, 2023, 10:17 AM

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Whats the integer of 23,437

rocky shuttle Oct 23, 2023, 10:18 AM

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Don't spam multiple channels with your nonsensical question

inland raft Oct 23, 2023, 11:11 AM

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Is there a site where i can learn high school phisics?

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Something similar to khan academy

steel blaze Oct 23, 2023, 11:33 AM

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you spelled physics wrong

neat lintel Oct 23, 2023, 12:39 PM

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organic chemistry can help you with organic phisics...