serious-discussion

[latent edge]

use Lagrange inversion theorem

[sleek pagoda]

lol

[latent edge]

no don't pls

[static loom]

let me teach you something

premature optimization is the root of all evil

[sleek pagoda]

Ok

):

what do I do then?

[static loom]

programming is hard enough without creating arbitrary hoops to jump through

[solid snow]

inb4 finds a slower workaround to avoid using 'slow' division

[static loom]

just learn to program in java normally first lol

[sleek pagoda]

Well

I kinda want it more for the math

[static loom]

try project euler

[sleek pagoda]

So even if the algorithim is slow

[river moon]

when it comes to programming something it's usually more about the programming part than math part that speeds up things

[sleek pagoda]

I want to try it out

[static loom]

if your solutions are too slow - then you can work on speeding them up as necessary

[latent edge]

you can do some weird stuff like instead of writing if statements, do it as in binary operations. I don't quite remember how does that work but it is efficient

[sleek pagoda]

already am

[latent edge]

yeah exactly

[static loom]

likely the solution isn't going to be avoiding division

it's going to be some kind of mathematical insight to skip some brute force aspect of your solution

[sleek pagoda]

So is there nothing like the quake algorithim for just plain sqrts?

well

I guess you could just imput 1/the number you want

[static loom]

there is, it's just newton's method

[neat lintel]

Hello

[river moon]

I'm here sitting reading docs and thinking how the hell does eigen convert what would be 3 loops into one loop at compile time

[sleek pagoda]

Yeah but the normal quake algorithim doesn't use division

[static loom]

you're working in Java not C, so I doubt it matters but

[river moon]

at modern cpus the benefit of quake algorithm is probably not even that great, unless you're running it on like a tiny embedded cpu

[sleek pagoda]

Ok well, no matter how bad, terrible or slow it is

[static loom]

I think it does use division

[sleek pagoda]

is there some algorithim like that?

[static loom]

bit shifts to the right by 1 it looks like, that's division by 2

[river moon]

at this point switch to C

[sleek pagoda]

I'm doing it more for just the heck of it

[sleek pagoda]

yeah thats fine

[static loom]

yeah, basically you don't know enough programming to realize the solution you are trying to make "better" is misguided and won't help

[sleek pagoda]

I'm not trying to make a better solution now. I guess its now just a arbitrary rule

which I realize is dumb

[sleek pagoda]

HTML

[river moon]

I sullied both javascript and html

[static loom]

shoulda CSS'd

[tight comet]

HTML is a good language

[sleek pagoda]

Ok so like is there an algorithim

I know I keep asking this

[static loom]

markup language lol

something called an XY problem

post the project euler question link

and post your current solution that's not working for ya

[sleek pagoda]

What problem

[static loom]

I just came back to see you delete some stuff

no idea what you put lol

[sleek pagoda]

Yeah

what did you mean about project euler

I just posted the code I had

[static loom]

wdym wdim

[sleek pagoda]

Ok the thing I'm doing isn't related to project euler

So I got confused when you asked about the what solution isn't working for me

[static loom]

idk thought you were solving some specific problem and wasn't going fast enough

idk what you're doing now

[latent edge]

confusion 101

[sleek pagoda]

Yeah

[reef carbon]

@full raven #help-3 locked but jsyk i'm not a guy and don't call me bro

[echo tundra]

She literally mentioned that she's not a guy

It literally says she/her on the pronoun star

like the small rhombus next to her name

[neat lintel]

its pretty much a square

i mean

all squares are rhombuses but yk

[solid snow]

'so offended'; they just asked you to not call them that

does it really matter

[echo tundra]

that one

[deep mango]

Its just that going out of your way to argue with women when they say dont call me bro is very strange

It's?

Dude

Im just gonna ban you

Fuck off

[echo tundra]

1. It's not that weird 2. You could have just asked @full raven

[deep mango]

What an ass

[echo tundra]

and here I thought he genuinly didn't knew

welp

[deep mango]

I gave it a chance but after the second time of questioning it i figured it wasn't worth it

Mfw roles are preuniversity and chess

[echo tundra]

lmfao, I'll just report it from next time

[lavish scaffold]

Is that what those rhombus indicate? Gender

[echo tundra]

More like the pronouns

[alpine kindle]

gender pronouns and communism

[quiet geode]

whomst pingeth

[west snow]

humpty dumpty

[bright hill]

akchtuallly...

[woven whale]

HTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETEHTML ISN'T TURING COMPLETE

[torn willow]

Not enough eldritch horror

6/10

[solid yarrow]

Why the hate on HMTL?

[tepid light]

😶

[alpine kindle]

watch me use <script> tags

[echo tundra]

have some biblically accurate tex (created by snow)

[torn willow]

Not enough HTML

5/10

[echo tundra]

[rocky shuttle]

hypertext markdown language

[lavish scaffold]

LOL

[bright hill]

https://tenor.com/view/hu-tao-genshin-impact-stare-yes-gif-21745173

[bright hill]

@short pumice it's summer so i can kinda just laze around and do math occasionally

(I moved Convo here cuz i didn't want to clog #advanced-analysis with idle banter haha)

[short pumice]

save me from numbers

[bright hill]

I can't

They literally everywhere

[cursive sun]

I got an idea for my maths project. Can yall judge it if its good or not?

[neat lintel]

We do not judge others here

[cursive sun]

No, no. I just wanted you all to check whether my project idea is good

[cinder zephyr]

just say the idea bruh

[bright hill]

https://dontasktoask.com

[fair mural]

[solar hawk]

Well then C has garbage collection

Just write it in

Lmao

[tepid light]

can i ask to ask

[tame wyvern]

what if someone then asks to ask to ask

thus the natural continuation is someone asking to ask to ask to ask

etc

[long matrix]

[ocean harbor]

lol

[tepid light]

so true

😼

[civic dock]

[obsidian reef]

when is r/math coming back :(

this is killing me

[alpine kindle]

tell u/spez to change his api back

[obsidian reef]

i wish they had held a poll for the subreddit before making the decision

[modest rune]

I think many subreddits held such polls and for the most part people were in favor

I'm not aware of any subreddit that held such a poll and didn't end up going dark?

[obsidian reef]

stardew valley held a poll and stayed open

or at least, i think some subreddits held a poll and elected to stay closed for a few days

math is closed indefinitely

i just don’t appreciate that they made the decision unilaterally

[modest rune]

I think they made the right call and I think they are doing a good thing

I get that its like, minorly inconvenient to not get r/math content for a few days

but honestly it seems strange to me to act like its a huge sacrifice

esp given that its protesting very bad changes to reddit

[obsidian reef]

the argument goes both ways

subreddits that almost no one cares about also have basically no effect on the protest

so yea no one rlly cares about r/math and it also has a negligible effect on reddit’s decision

i’m just saying i wish it would stay open

and considering that most subreddits have returned to normal operation means it matters even less

[alpine kindle]

i mean you clearly care about it

[neat lintel]

tell me

what is

$$1.01^{365} = ?$$

[fathom swallow]

brandon_hu

[neat lintel]

what is $$1.00^{365} =?$$

[fathom swallow]

brandon_hu

[modest rune]

r/math is outputting its maximal effect

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that they have any better way to protesting

the point of the boycott is that the more subreddits go dark, the bigger the cumulative damage done to reddits revenue and image

[solid yarrow]

Why is r/math closed?

[obsidian reef]

ya for sure

i just think their maximal effect isn’t very much, which corresponds to the fact that there are few people who care about the sub

[modest rune]

sure but its probably worth doing

given that they don't have a better option

[obsidian reef]

well i wish they would have consulted the users before making that decision on our behalf

[modest rune]

again but its not for you

its not on your behalf

[obsidian reef]

it affects all of us

[modest rune]

you are the benefactor of the unpaid labor of all the moderators on r/math

[obsidian reef]

most other subreddits did consult us

[modest rune]

whose moderating tools are being removed by reddit

this is like the most transparently self indulgent whining

[obsidian reef]

didn’t reddit say they were making exceptions for mod tools?

[obsidian reef]

why the aggression

[modest rune]

they've given no explanation of how that could possibly work in practice

that was just descriptive

[obsidian reef]

ok bro

[modest rune]

the issue is that a lot of the mod tools are built into secondary reddit clients

which reddit does intend to squash

so the only option would be creating new, mod-tool only clients

which means more people doing more free labor on reddits behalf

like reddit only exists because thousands of people are creating content and moderating it for free

[solid yarrow]

Why is r/math closed?

[modest rune]

lots of subreddits went private to protest reddit api changes

[solid yarrow]

What does that mean?

Api changes?

[modest rune]

Reddit is basically hurting users in an effort to profit slightly more

theres a lot of 3rd party tools that improve the reddit experience

and reddit is making it basically impossible to create and run such a tool

[solid yarrow]

So r/math decided to go dark?

As a protest?

[obsidian reef]

unfortunately :(

[solid yarrow]

Weird.

[obsidian reef]

ikr

[solid yarrow]

Like I see both sides, but the situation is... weird.

[obsidian reef]

@modest rune are u a mod on reddit btw

[modest rune]

nope

[modest rune]

idk if there is a both sides

the moderators are reasonably protesting a change to the way reddit and moderation work

[obsidian reef]

bro said there’s no both sides in an argument

[modest rune]

and reddit is being intransigent

and i guess some users are complaining about not using reddit for a few weeks

[solid yarrow]

But as a company, you need money.

You need to see both sides.

Even though it's truly sad, that such goal leads to such thing.

[obsidian reef]

some people really feel entitled to free content :(

everybody wants something for nothing

[solid yarrow]

Welcome to the 21th century.

[obsidian reef]

amen

[solid yarrow]

[solid snow]

It’s called a community

[solid snow]

No, the shareholders want more profit

The company and servers could run for less than the arbitrary profit margin that they want to upkeep

[solid yarrow]

Money rules the world. Sad but true.

[solid snow]

I mean that’s not really a reasonable ‘side’ of the argument, it’s just flat out greed

At the cost of the users who use the service

[obsidian reef]

it’s less of “i want them to have money” and more “it’s reasonable action for them to take”

ie “it shouldn’t be a surprise”

[peak tide]

that's the tradeoff you make when you sell part of the ownership of your company... obviously they're gonna want a return on their investment

[solid yarrow]

Economy 101

[obsidian reef]

yes definitely. reddit was a money loser for a while was it not

[solid yarrow]

[obsidian reef]

it’s saddening how selfish some of the users are

but oh well

[solid snow]

…the users are selfish?

[peak tide]

providing free content isn't my definition of selfish..

[obsidian reef]

they really expect reddit to continue hosting all this stuff at a loss

unreasonable imo

[solid snow]

They are literally what constitute the site as a whole

[solid snow]

They aren’t lmao

[obsidian reef]

not anymore

[solid snow]

Not anymore as in years

[obsidian reef]

yeah because of the ads

[peak tide]

there are ads on reddit?

[solid snow]

What does that have to do with introducing policy that’s harmful to its userbase

How are these things related

[obsidian reef]

cuz the third party apps used the api to bypass the ads

so users were getting ad free content

thereby losing money for reddit

[peak tide]

so does my browser's ad blocker, but they're not doing anything about that fortunately

[obsidian reef]

true true but this takes a big step in solving the problem for reddit

[solid snow]

Is there even reasonable statistics to suggest that the majority of the userbase was using third party applications

and not the basic reddit app

[bright hill]

that's such a stupid argument lel

ok, sry

I shouldn't be flippant

but you could argue by that same logic that no one should vote

[solid snow]

It wasn’t just small subreddits though

I don’t even use reddit at all but any time I tried looking up any info about a topic the corresponding subreddit would be private

[obsidian reef]

yes it makes sense for those subs to go private

but r/math less sense

[obsidian reef]

what is up with the ppl here being so rude

i’m just tryna discuss

[solid snow]

Isn’t r/math pretty big?

[obsidian reef]

yea but very few active users

it got like 15 posts a day

[bright hill]

I did apologize.

[loud snow]

Cringe redditors

[bright hill]

[loud snow]

Protesting to an uninteresting population make them aware of the issue but they dont care for advocacy so it just irritates everyone and nothing gets done

It just stops most people from prefixxing reddit in their search inquiries and lowers traffic to the website

[obsidian reef]

yea but u can’t just be rude and immediately apologize lol

is that how u go about ur day

besides it wasn’t just u it was also that max fellow

[bright hill]

oh I'm usually a lot more rude irl

but only because I interact a lot more with friends and family

[loud snow]

You can when your ego is big enough and you interact online

So you are stupid and im sorry

[bright hill]

but you're right

I relized I was being rude almost the moment I sent the message

I should've rephrased instead of just keeping it there

[loud snow]

No you lost. You shouldve heightened your ego and accepted the win without apologizing

[bright hill]

that would server literally nothing lel

[modest rune]

Right, the claim is that reddit won't actually profit by ruining its platform

Its not just bad for users but bad for reddit too

and reddit has a terrible track record with trying to make itself profitable

[zealous garden]

I disagree, I don't believe in editing messages

[bright hill]

[zealous garden]

Yes it's a joke

[bright hill]

and I played along

[trim vessel]

hey msg me if you can join a server for a few min am trying to find something in it but cannot access server

[hardy vessel]

yea seems like there's a few problems on discord's part atm

got disconnected from here for no reason

[zealous garden]

edit this

[rocky shuttle]

delete it

[stone ferry]

Well I don't believe in you.

[zealous garden]

That only increases my wraith power

[cloud needle]

@wind epoch hey i saw you closed your help channel, if you find out the proof for the even case let me know

im curious

[wind epoch]

Alr.

[cloud needle]

thanks

[wind epoch]

#elementary-number-theory

I've posted here as well

[cloud needle]

oh sweet

[lime finch]

he apologised leave the fella alone

[fading zealot]

It blows my mind how we as humans have such a hard time building intuition about how long the circumference of a circle is, like I know it's more than three times the radius but every time I measure it directly my brain tells me “surely it can't be that long”

[loud snow]

Human intution only goes so far

[fading zealot]

Sure, but we can easily build intution about parabolic trajectories

Actually I'm quite curious about that, in what age do children start develop intuition about parabolas

[south kelp]

cannot confirm often play fetch with dog indoors and hit shit all the time

[fading zealot]

Like if they were asked to draw how a thrown ball would fly

[loud snow]

Its not entirely intuitive and takes some correcting models though

Think about modeling catenaries for example

We can also assume that the models atleast visually are polynomial, but this isnt true

[loud snow]

No one does I am pretty sure this is learned

People arent born knowing geometries

[south kelp]

what if they have some knowledge on that before they can even draw Edit: Dumb

anyways fwiw kids start to learn how throw at 18 months according to internrt

[loud snow]

Learning to throw is unrelated to geometry

[long matrix]

oh no, i wish my subs I use would stay open because it inconveniences me

[south kelp]

not entirely unrelated when the question is specifically "draw how a thrown ball would fly"

but yeah they could just watch how others throw balls

[long matrix]

most creatures are probably born with some euclidean intuition...

@solid yarrow @obsidian reef @peak tide you should all see this post by apolloapp's dev
https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/

If apollo dev isn't downright lying, which it doesn't appear to me, at least, then there are glaring problems with what Reddit is doing.

For one thing, it seems they are being anything but transparent about this process.

Whether or not this change is for the better, that's a huge concern to me.

And "just monetisation" doesn't explain away the accusations made in that thread. The key point is the numbers are unreasonable. Someone's lying here.

More than one 3rd party dev has spoken out. As well as a bunch of communities from the blackout.

[static loom]

I don't like reddit, so I'm fine with them destroying their own platform

although I have a feeling not much will change tbh

[tight comet]

lemmy isn't working out though

So if there is another social media exodus

it will be quite fractured

for like 30+ years there has been no google alternative

TBH I think there is now

I don't think there's any real alternative to reddit now

So for as long as that is true

They don't need to listen to any demands

[obsidian reef]

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL

finally

this is literally my thought process

[long matrix]

[obsidian reef]

?

y is everyone so hostile

[long matrix]

I find it fairly hard to sympathize with self-centred individuals.

I've been inconvenienced myself with private subs, but it's not like I can't understand why this is all happening or what the point is.

[obsidian reef]

o yea i mean i understand the point

i just don’t like the point

[obsidian reef]

Ephesians 4:32

Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

[echo tundra]

NO

[long matrix]

well allow me to be self-centred and be hostile to self-centred people

no forgiveness

[echo tundra]

May god forgive you cause we won't

[severe swallow]

when is "so that" vs "such that" used in proof language
I heard one is kinda like "in order to" and the other is "with the property", but I don't remember which is which

[torn willow]

so that feels informal

so that is "in order to"

such that is "with the property"

[cinder zephyr]

so that isn't really informal IMO

I've seen enough of "we prove X so that we can prove Y"

[ripe thorn]

Hi

[long matrix]

Thats descriptive of your process

not the actual proof itself

[cinder zephyr]

That's part of a proof

If it's a more involved one

[long matrix]

Within the proof, I can't see a strict need for 'so that'

[long matrix]

id say its meta language to help readers follow

i dont feel like its a part of the mathematical aspect

Whereas "such that" often is

informal might not be the word, but I think the 2 are generally used in different contexts

[neat lintel]

Type of guy who would fight the north because losing his slaves would inconvience him

[obsidian reef]

did u actually just compare wanting r/math to stay open to slave ownership?

what is wrong with this place

[neat lintel]

I compared you not caring about other people to not caring about other people

[obsidian reef]

u are actually unbelievable lol

how does one go through life thinking this is a valid comparison to make

jesus christ

don’t u think a line has been crossed when comparing a subreddit closing and the enslavement of millions and millions of individuals?

[eager reef]

Yeah that comparison definitely crosses a line regardless of my opinion of the discussed topic

[daring dagger]

Probably people could whine for what they can't control and what has been unilaterally decided by the mods and there could be inconveniences due to it

But honestly different story for whether the decision by the mods were just

It could be one supporting points of whether the users of r/math actually wanted the server to shut down, though

And one thing I know is I'm currently very tired to either support or disagree with the mods' decisions there because it's time to sleep for me

Goodnight

[solid yarrow]

What are some pens you recommend for doing math?

[daring dagger]

Any pen and paper you're confortable with writing things I guess...?

[solid yarrow]

Yeah just wondering. Mine smears so I'm looking for something better.

[daring dagger]

Might be your paper issue

What kind of writing tool do you use?

When I was in highschool I used a mechanical pencil named Graph gear 1000

I use my tablet nowadays though

[stone ferry]

pencil

so you can erase it

[daring dagger]

Yeah

Erasability is definitely a factor

If you do have to use ballpoint ink pens I kind of recommend PILOT FRIXION

[solid yarrow]

Why's that?

[daring dagger]

Can "erase" with the back of the pen

[solid yarrow]

Hm.

[daring dagger]

The ink becomes transparent when you apply heat by friction with the back of the pen

Any erasable pen is fine I guess if you're not writing important documents

It's just the first pen that came up to my mind was frixion

Or you know

Just use a pencil

[solid yarrow]

And what would you recommend for important documents like exams?

[daring dagger]

Black pen with correction tape

It's kinda annoying though but yeah better than your answers getting erased

[solid yarrow]

Hm.

Should I look out for specific attributes for the black pen?

Like line strenght etc.?

[daring dagger]

Idk about that much but I guess how the ink comes out of the pen could be important

For example SARASA ballpoint pens were usually wetter than Jetstream when I used it

Could be different for what your pens would be

[solid yarrow]

And how do you avoid those ink blobs? Like you write and suddenly the ink flow is stopped and you get this one big smear.

Is this a pen problem or am I doing something wrong?

[daring dagger]

Yeah that's probably an issue of the pen and the paper

Use a drier pen

The drying speed of the ink is the issue if I'm correct

[solid yarrow]

I'll look out for one. Thanks for your help.

[daring dagger]

The other option could be to use a pen with thinner line

Idk what pen you're using but I guess it's generally pen issue

[neat lintel]

2 + 2 = 22

*"2" + "2" = 22

[stone ferry]

pen issue

[rocky shuttle]

[echo tundra]

discussy moment

[alpine kindle]

@onyx holly gender is not the same as sex
gender is neurological while sex is physical
gender dysphoria is where an incongruence between them causes discomfort

you can change sex characteristics through surgery/hormones
you cannot actively change gender (as far as we know), though some people's gender is fluid and changes without input

[stone ferry]

nah you're just not trying hard enough

I bet someone can probably change their gender at will

[alpine kindle]

also @onyx holly i apologise for calling moderators
at first glance your message looked a lot like the hateful shit matt walsh fans spew but i can see that it is not

[cerulean quiver]

Moral crusader

[halcyon lichen]

average liberal

[alpine kindle]

this is a good thing

matt walsh is a horrible person

[cerulean quiver]

Yes, restrict information, everyone knows the only way to defeat an opponent is to pluck your eyes out

[alpine kindle]

what are you talking about

[halcyon lichen]

aint no way udk who he is
he was all over the internet abt 1 month ago

based

bruh 🗿

🤓

[cerulean quiver]

I only know who because my brother told me

[halcyon lichen]

good 4u man

politics is a shitshow

clowns on both sides

[cerulean quiver]

Great things can be achieved if you ignore American socio cultural situations

[halcyon lichen]

no use exploring that field

[cerulean quiver]

Indeed

[alpine kindle]

transgender people have existed forever
they were the spearheads of the stonewall riots for instance
and there is evidence from much earlier even but you'd have to ask people studying that facet of history for specific examples

it is not a craze

[cloud needle]

there is plenty of history of a wide spectrum of gender identity and expression, especially in non western cultures

[cerulean quiver]

Can't tell if I am eastern enough to comment

[cloud needle]

lmfaoo

[alpine kindle]

there are also neurological research papers about transgender people but again
i am not a neuroscientist
ask a neuroscientist working in that area

[cerulean quiver]

Define transgender

[alpine kindle]

person of a different gender to the one assigned at birth

[cerulean quiver]

Define gender

[cloud needle]

now were getting spicy

[alpine kindle]

it's a neurological phenomenon
again I don't know the exact science
ask a neuroscientist working in that field

[halcyon lichen]

yea ur gonna get banned bruv gg

[alpine kindle]

people in most countries do get a gender assigned at birth

on their birth certificate

yes

[cloud needle]

yes, because gender is socially constructed around biological sex

[bright hill]

I can't believe matt walsh is an actual person

[alpine kindle]

it's assigned almost always based on sex

[bright hill]

that's like

[cerulean quiver]

"X has existed forever"

"What is X?"

"I don't know, ask a neuroscientist"

[alpine kindle]

gender is NOT a social construct

[bright hill]

who's given a platform to air their opinion

[cloud needle]

yes it is!

[alpine kindle]

can you define an apple

[cloud needle]

a better way to phrase this is there have been people who defy gender norms for as long as humans have existed

[alpine kindle]

wakebloom you are wrong please stop

[cloud needle]

and since gender norms vary by culture and time period, it is quite difficult to concretely define

really?

[alpine kindle]

yes

[cloud needle]

can you explain?

[alpine kindle]

i am transgender

[cerulean quiver]

I sorta figured

[cloud needle]

awesome!!

[alpine kindle]

this is not because i violate social norms or whatever

[cloud needle]

nono

sorry

bad phrasing

[alpine kindle]

this is because my brain actively conflicts with my physical sex

[cloud needle]

rightyes

[cerulean quiver]

"the fleshy, usually rounded red, yellow, or green edible pome fruit of a usually cultivated tree (genus Malus) of the rose family"

[alpine kindle]

there is no social construct

[cerulean quiver]

Enough beating around the bush, buttercup, WHAT IS YOUR GENUS??

[cloud needle]

i mean

gender norms are 100% socially constructed

im not trying to disagree with you tho

[cerulean quiver]

Why view social construction as separable from biological circumstance

Yet to understand that.

[cloud needle]

ive talked to many of my trans friends about this extensively as well, i dont want this to come across as an uninformed opinion

but again, i may be phrasing things wrong

[hollow ginkgo]

https://youtu.be/egEraZP9yXQ

[cloud needle]

because it can be separated, and should

[cerulean quiver]

But why

And how

[alpine kindle]

"gender is a neurological phenomenon which often corresponds to physical sex, and usually causes feelings of discomfort (called gender dysphoria) when they do not correspond"

i think that's a reasonable definition

[cerulean quiver]

That is something entirely defined by what it corresponds to

How do I know it exists in of itself?

[cloud needle]

if not, social construction will be based on one's assigned gender at birth and will not allow for the existence or acceptance of transgender people

[long matrix]

big words im seeing here

[cerulean quiver]

This requires me to accept the premise of the how though, how are they are separable in your opinion at least

[alpine kindle]

in order to get that level of detail i would need to know like
specific neural pathways
which I don't
because I'm not a neuroscientist

ok <@&268886789983436800>

[cloud needle]

...

[echo tundra]

[cerulean quiver]

That is fine, but why put faith in something you don't necessarily understand, and cannot necessarily demonstrate?

Neuroscience is after all a relatively new frontier.

[echo tundra]

Like religion or even atoms

[cerulean quiver]

Why do you hate atoms

[echo tundra]

We should only do things we really understand lmfaoo

[solid snow]

I’m vacuuming my house rn

[cerulean quiver]

See second clause, demonstrable

[alpine kindle]

i have lived experience of it
so do many others
just like most people have lived experience of apples existing

[cloud needle]

it may not be demonstrable to you but gender dysphoria is surely demonstrable to the people who feel it

[neon tundra]

Gone.

[hollow sundial]

ty @alpine kindle for trying. that person's just too ummm brainwashed?

[alpine kindle]

it is not a hypothetical or whatever

[cloud needle]

thank god

[alpine kindle]

thanks tropo ❤️

[echo tundra]

what about theoretical things not everything can be demonstrated

[hollow sundial]

can't spell demonstrable without demon

[cloud needle]

pri demon th

[cerulean quiver]

What can't be demonstrated that we reliably and consistently use though?

[hollow sundial]

aurum works for satan confirmed

[echo tundra]

[alpine kindle]

aurum i cannot demonstrate it explicitly

[cloud needle]

by your logic can any emotion be demonstrated?

[cerulean quiver]

I do work for Satan

But I don't see how it's related.

[echo tundra]

umm... string theory

[alpine kindle]

nobody uses string theory

[cloud needle]

i use it on a day to day basis

i love this emoji

[hollow sundial]

does tying your shoes count

[cerulean quiver]

Heavily disputed

[echo tundra]

proof

[alpine kindle]

string theory is a shit example

[cerulean quiver]

It's literally called a theory

[halcyon lichen]

this convo is getting dumber by the minute

[cerulean quiver]

That makes it better

[echo tundra]

discussy moment

[alpine kindle]

aurum the main one is like

emotions in general

[echo tundra]

I know, couldn't quickly think of a good one

[alpine kindle]

or actually you know

[hollow sundial]

true. but also dumber by the number of messages i send.

[alpine kindle]

the existence of subjective experience

[cerulean quiver]

Been observed in animals

[hollow sundial]

.

[cloud needle]

through physical manifestation no?

[alpine kindle]

we assume that exists but we do not understand it

[cloud needle]

or are you talking like actual neural pathways or chemicals

in which case, the same would apply for humans we just havent gotten there yet

[solid snow]

Free thinkers when I tell them to experience a new emotion

[cerulean quiver]

No , but you can empathize with others, no?

[alpine kindle]

like @cerulean quiver this is related to the question of whether the eg green colour i am seeing is the same green colour that you are seeing

[echo tundra]

Honestly you can experience a new emotion just not be able to describe it

[solid snow]

Sign that you should read and write more

[alpine kindle]

we don't know where we'd even begin trying to answer that

[next schooner]

🟩

[cerulean quiver]

Just how subjective is identity though...

[next schooner]

checkmate brain theorists

[cerulean quiver]

Isn't that the final question here?

[next schooner]

what could possibly be more subjective than one's own personal identity lmao

[alpine kindle]

yeah

[cerulean quiver]

It's certainly very subjective, but how subjective is it?

[echo tundra]

is there a quantifiable way to measure subjectivity though, something which is not subjective

[alpine kindle]

this is a really weird question because it's pertaining to the brain trying to understand itself

[cerulean quiver]

Because no matter how subjective your sense of identity it has to have been inspired by an external source, no? Even if a particularly unique combination.

[alpine kindle]

not really

going back to gender

[cerulean quiver]

Isn't this why most people who are confused about their gender tend to believe they should generally be the opposite gender, since that is their only example of gender?

[next schooner]

What does external "inspiration" have to do with subjectivity

[obsidian reef]

only if you make mistakes 🤣

[cerulean quiver]

Sourced from an external source if you will, poor phrasing

[alpine kindle]

you can feel gender dysphoria and incorporate that into your identity

[next schooner]

ok...?

[alpine kindle]

that's entirely internal

[next schooner]

I don't really see what point you're getting at

How I percieve myself is between me, myself, and I

External factors influence this, sure, but these factors are ultimately filtered and interpreted by me

[cerulean quiver]

And you are a compound solely of external factors...

[next schooner]

Ok sure

But this is a weird philosophical line of discussion that I don't really see the point of

What are you getting at

[cerulean quiver]

Tbf, separating sex and gender was also a weird line of discussion

I'm primarily curious

It's my main question too

[next schooner]

Why sex and gender are distinct?

[cerulean quiver]

Yes

[hollow sundial]

https://open.spotify.com/track/6XsT5UGfpaFeHQf5LRIy4W?si=ebd10435198341fc

[alpine kindle]

i think the answer to this is that we do not know
we have evidence based on the existence of transgender people that gender is not the same as sex
but we do not know how it works in detail

[next schooner]

Why wouldn't they be distinct?

Let's take an example

An example that I do not expect to reflect at all the genderqueer experience, but rather the separation between physical reality and self-perception

[cerulean quiver]

I agree with that premise of course

[next schooner]

Alright

[cerulean quiver]

But sex is inherently defined hormonally

[next schooner]

Sex is perhaps not so easy to define as you may think

But that's besides the point

[cerulean quiver]

Go on

[alpine kindle]

yeah sex is weird as well

[next schooner]

Even if we could 100% definitively define sex

[cloud needle]

would hormone therapy change it then?

[alpine kindle]

probably not as complicated as gender

sex can be changed
this is besides the point

[next schooner]

Why should our ability to make this definition impact on the validity of one's personal experience

[cloud needle]

i agree

[next schooner]

Or, rather, their identity

[cloud needle]

you shouldnt have to justify your own identity

it is unfair to ask that of someone

[next schooner]

Indeed

[cerulean quiver]

Ah, poor definition then

[cloud needle]

i have never had this discussion with mathematicians before, but the real world works differently than math does

[cloud needle]

bruh

[cerulean quiver]

Well it's true...

It's a chromosomal factor I didn't include

[next schooner]

Well yeah this is a good reason why hormones cannot alone be a defining feature of sex

Chromosomes contribute, sure

[alpine kindle]

they aren't everything

[next schooner]

But again, not as much as you might think when it comes to the expression of phenotypic "sex" traits

[alpine kindle]

there's also primary and secondary sex characteristics

[cerulean quiver]

It's a contributing factor ofc, along with hormones.

[next schooner]

Yeah absolutely

[alpine kindle]

but all these things are separate to gender

[next schooner]

If you are interested in the biology of it

There is much literature on this

As with any definition, one needs to think about what purpose this definition is going to serve

[cerulean quiver]

A question though, if there's a neurological difference in the functioning of a trans/dysphoric person's brain, why is gender defined subjectively?

[next schooner]

This is why there are countless proximate definitions of sex just within biology

For example, a simple chromosomal definiton of sex does not sufficiently serve to determine whether any two individuals can procreate

[next schooner]

Not all trans people necessarily have a neurological condition

The causes are proximate and poorly understood

[alpine kindle]

because we do not have a nearly good enough understanding of what causes gender to have a good definition

[next schooner]

It may be that some transgender individuals suffer from some hitherto unknown neurological condition that causes feelings of dysphoria

It may be that other transgender individuals do not

[alpine kindle]

oh hm i did not know this

[cloud needle]

also just cause people should be free to identify themselves without needing to justify it based on their brain chemistry

yeah some trans people don’t have gender dysphoria

[next schooner]

Yeah I mean I think this is what it boils down to

[cerulean quiver]

It feels to me identity has always been a subject of scrutiny

And questioning

[alpine kindle]

identity is just

[cerulean quiver]

I don't really see any reason we shouldn't question this on principle at least

[alpine kindle]

really messy

[cloud needle]

prescriptive definitions of personal identity are lame in general, especially with something like this that is so important

[cerulean quiver]

I mean in the end you can always say "I am X" and you will find at least 1 person with a sound critique on why X is bad

[next schooner]

Eh

I mean

What you mean isn't entirely clear to me

Identity has always been questioned, yes

But this doesn't mean it's a good thing that we should continue

[cloud needle]

does this mean that identifying in any way is bad?

[neon tundra]

It's a difficult question to discuss, because some transpeople do insist very hard that their experienced gender is due to objective physiological facts about their brain -- a position that if nothing else nips the attack "you could just choose to conform if you wanted to" in the bud.

[cloud needle]

i don’t get the point

[lime finch]

not enough studies on ROGD tbh

[cerulean quiver]

It is neither bad nor good, but I think people should be free to question it

[next schooner]

To question what

Other peoples' identities?

[cloud needle]

question someone’s personal identity?

[cerulean quiver]

Yes.

[next schooner]

Why?

What business is it of yours?

[cerulean quiver]

What business of mine is it not?

[cloud needle]

???

[next schooner]

Why should other people have the right to freely question the contents of my own mind?

[alpine kindle]

the thing is like
transgender individuals feel like they fit more with one conception of identity related to gender than the one assigned to them
pushing against transgender rights actively disrupts transgender people from being happier

[lime finch]

the contents of your mind determine how you act

[cerulean quiver]

How are you different from anything else that is questioned, generally speaking

Behaviour is questioned

Actions are questioned

[lime finch]

how people act on a societal level very much impacts everyone

[cerulean quiver]

Ideas are questioned

[next schooner]

Yes but we generally afford people the right not to have their minds read

[cerulean quiver]

Why? That's entirely arbitrary.

[next schooner]

I mean

[cloud needle]

so at the end of the day you want to push back on gender nonconformity?

[next schooner]

If you sincerely believe that nobody has a right to any kind of privacy whatsoever then

I mean I don't really know what to do with that lmfao

[cerulean quiver]

I never said interrogate

I said question

[lime finch]

wish I could have read the mind of my crush back in highschool

[cerulean quiver]

Insofar this is displayed

[next schooner]

Alright

Consider that questions can be draining

They can be damaging to the person who is being questioned

Why should people have to tolerate other people harassing them with questions about the contents of their identity

[cerulean quiver]

I mean if you're already going for deconstruction of the arbitrary on principle

Ethics also fly off the board

[cloud needle]

in this instance, with gender, why do you want to question it??? what behaviors could possibly be harmful

[next schooner]

Deconstruction of the arbitrary?

Eh?

[cerulean quiver]

Basically, the previously held understanding of sex and gender is arbitrary, no?

[next schooner]

Which previously held understanding

[cerulean quiver]

That they are inherently tied to one another

[next schooner]

That sex = gender and that both are biological absolutes?

[cerulean quiver]

Yes.

[next schooner]

Right

Why does challenging dumbass historical ideas mean we have to do away with ethics

lmfao

[cerulean quiver]

Because why is it inherently moral to challenge them?

[next schooner]

Because they're wrong

[cloud needle]

W

[next schooner]

This is literally the scientific process

[cerulean quiver]

Yeah but, so is ethics on the same basis.

[alpine kindle]

they contradict the lived experience of real people

[next schooner]

What does ethics have to do with this at all

[alpine kindle]

yeah that's like

not what we're talking about

[next schooner]

Incorrect science should be corrected to the best of our ability

The historical understanding of sex and gender was incorrect science

You're injecting complexity here where it does not exist

The only place ethics enters the picture here is if you want to ask the question of whether it is ethical to continue doing science

In which case I don't fucking care about that question lmao

[cerulean quiver]

They are wrong because people's self perception of gender and sex differ. People's views on ethics also inherently differ.
Both of these are fundamentally social constructs.
If then, per say I were to question you on your gender identity, even interrogate. There is nothing but physical boundaries from stopping me.

[next schooner]

ok....?

[cerulean quiver]

As there should be nothing but physical boundaries (i.e physical force) from identifying as what I want to identify as.

[next schooner]

What does this mean

[long matrix]

Stepping away from gender... would you do the same on a person's religion

or political position

not the same situation, but not a million miles off.

[next schooner]

Like literally what are you saying here this sentence is incoherent to me

[cerulean quiver]

Basically, by the same principle you identify with a gender. I can question you on that gender, irrelevant of its impacts on you.

[next schooner]

Yes, you can

[alpine kindle]

yeah you can

[next schooner]

That doesn't mean you should

[alpine kindle]

why would you

[cloud needle]

Ok then i will use physical force to punch u in the face

[alpine kindle]

you are only hurting people by doing so

[next schooner]

I can drive my car at 100mph through the front entrance of a shopping mall

[cerulean quiver]

Yeah, but why is that bad, if I feel like it?

[next schooner]

That doesn't mean I should

[woven whale]

what

[next schooner]

Are you suggesting that it is okay to hurt people as long as you want to do it?

[cerulean quiver]

Yes.

[alpine kindle]

this is like asking why it would be bad to kill someone if you felt like it

[cloud needle]

😭😭😭😭😭😭

[next schooner]

lmfao

[cloud needle]

you are DYING on this hill

[next schooner]

Alright okay so the fundamental issue here is that you appear to be an actual psychopath

[neat lintel]

psycopathic behavior

[cloud needle]

screaming crying and dying on that hill

[long matrix]

Are you asking why respect what other people choose to believe in?

[cerulean quiver]

Yes.

[next schooner]

Let me lay down the law here

[cloud needle]

u wanna be the chad guy so bad

[next schooner]

You are welcome to think what you like

But you are not permitted, on this server, to harm people just because you feel like it

[woven whale]

says WHO

[cerulean quiver]

That is nothing but an abstraction.

[next schooner]

This includes questioning or interrogating people on their identity if they do not want to hear such questions

[alpine kindle]

ME

[lime finch]

Oh yeah I remember that time when aurum said he wanted to harm people

[alpine kindle]

also like

[lime finch]

yeah that was scary!

[woven whale]

touché

[alpine kindle]

in general society

don't do that

that's not permitted in most places

for good reason

[cerulean quiver]

I've no such intentions, but it is simply an example following the same following

[next schooner]

Good

I don't care about your rationalisations

[alpine kindle]

that's good

[cerulean quiver]

See that's different.

What I said was fundamentally true, and was using the same logic.

[solid snow]

I mean you can argue something without necessarily holding it as belief

[cerulean quiver]

Indeed.

[next schooner]

I don't give a shit

[long matrix]

I think my answer is that apriori there probably isn't much of a reason why objectively, other than the likely consequences of doing so in most places.

Same answer as 'why be good'

[cerulean quiver]

Well tbh, then you are just being logically inconsistent

Which is fine with me.

I am just here out of curiosity is all

[next schooner]

My logic is that it is my responsibility to look out for the wellbeing of our users

[alpine kindle]

aurum do you not understand why hurting people just because you feel like it is bad

[next schooner]

Whatever rhetorical nonsense you want to use to justify harming this wellbeing is of absolutely no relevance or interest to me

Don't do it and we don't have an issue

[cerulean quiver]

It's not rhetorical though

Prove me wrong

I don't intend to do it

[lime finch]

aurum what was your argument again

[next schooner]

I will not, because I don't care

[cerulean quiver]

It's a logical inquiry.

[cloud needle]

not everything can or should be rationalized

[next schooner]

I have better things to do with my time

[alpine kindle]

you are not the only person
other people's wellbeing matters

[cerulean quiver]

So you're incapable

[next schooner]

Incapable of what?

[neat lintel]

Can we ban debate lords

[cloud needle]

now ur just being a prick

[cerulean quiver]

Proving me wrong

[next schooner]

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter because I don't care to try

[alpine kindle]

aurum i literally gave you a 2 line proof

[cerulean quiver]

Well, so so, but my intentions are purely curiosity

[cerulean quiver]

See that is actually fair

[neat lintel]

Just curious

[alpine kindle]

now go away

[next schooner]

If you want to debate some philosophical point of ethics then you can find someone who wants to do that with you

I don't want to so I will not

Quite straightforward

[cerulean quiver]

It's logical. But fair enough.

[cloud needle]

logic isn’t always so cut and dry

[next schooner]

It is much more logical for me to get on with my actual mathematics research that I am supposed to be doing rather than waste time debating a random on the internet

I've already wasted enough time

[cerulean quiver]

Gender is subjective. Ethics are subjective.
If we should prioritise subjective identity above all else. I am technically as justified in tormenting others as I am justified in identifying with whatever I want.

[next schooner]

So that is what I'm going to do - ping mods if there are issues.

[neat lintel]

😭 there is an issue tho. bro is debating his right to tormenting others

[lime finch]

Is this your actual mindset or are you arguing ad absurdum

[cerulean quiver]

Think devil's advocate

[long matrix]

@cerulean quiver idm a philosophical debate

[lime finch]

so you’re pulling a dovstoevsky

[cerulean quiver]

Oh cool

[long matrix]

and like I said, I don't believe in an objective answer

[neon tundra]

I'm sure there must be an actual nihilism server somewhere where it would be better for this conversation to take place.

[alpine kindle]

playing devil's advocate in this situation actively harms people

[long matrix]

You cant convince people of most things apriori with purely logic

[cerulean quiver]

I mean, this didn't specify the type of discussion

If you don't want me to talk about it, I won't

[alpine kindle]

please stop

[cerulean quiver]

Alright, if you guys want me to stop

[neon tundra]

Kindly please with a cherry on top.

[cerulean quiver]

Very well then, Idm

[alpine kindle]

you can read above if you so desire

[cerulean quiver]

Add me if you want to discuss in DMs I guess.

[long matrix]

lazy, no.

[cerulean quiver]

Fair enough

[bright hill]

read the room

[rustic wraith]

gotta love Schuller shitting on project-based science: https://youtu.be/1wyOoLUjUeI?t=4620

[cold turtle]

Are u from Albania by any chance?

[neat lintel]

so insane how there's so much talk about a submarine

but not the 300 people who died after their ship sunk

[zealous garden]

What ship sunk

[craggy gust]

I've seen a nearly similar sizable conversation for the exact reason of "why does nobody talk about this?" (someone immediately posts about it after)

Maybe because people don't generally talk about the thousands of the other tragedies happening around the world every day. Many of us who don't talk about it are distanced from it and it doesn't affect us.

always good to create conversation about issues though I think

also $$$$

[bright hill]

lmfaoo

[half kayak]

I’m testing out this server’s stickers

[leaden torrent]

do it in #bots

or some other spam channel

we have three

[half kayak]

My b

[leaden torrent]

oh i guess two you can see

still

[bright hill]

is the 3rd one ivory?

[jovial ember]

It’s the mod channel

[neat lintel]

i wonder how it is like modding a server with 100k people

[jovial ember]

It’s really great especially when you have way too few mods and then when anyone tries to implement solutions to increase the # of people who can help moderate things the powers that be shut them down because apparently in a server with 150k people only two people are deemed of good enough character or responsible enough to be considered for a mod because I guess mod abuse is something that must be avoided to the extent that you can only have 15 or so mods in a server with 10,000 times that many people

Not like I’d know from personal experience or anything

[neat lintel]

🫂

[sterile river]

@opaque fossil

Ik of this route (which Im doing rn)
Kinda in order but not sure
-calc 1
-calc 2
-real analysis
-linear algebra
-point set topology
-algebra of some sort (group theory, etc)

U don't necessarily need multi calc but I think it helps

Heres the one at MIT
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-102-introduction-to-functional-analysis-spring-2021/pages/syllabus/

For lin alg I think proof based is preferred

I think u can take functional analysis after that tbh

Personally Im just finishing calc 1 and starting calc 2 next week, then my plan is to take multi variables alongside lin alg and then take real analysis next spring.

[velvet dagger]

Better to do linear algebra first

[sterile river]

Yeah, thats what Im planning

[alpine kindle]

no

it's a joke based on someone a few weeks ago misreading "abelian" as "albanian"

[flat harbor]

abelian nationalism 💪 🇦🇱 🇦🇱

[neat lintel]

Feeling unloved, unwanted, and like everyone I’ve been into is incapable of loving me is hard to ignore shortly after a nap where I was down beforehand

Maybe music helps

Music kinda helps.

I make good judgments 😌

[south kelp]

damn that's too real for this server

let's think about math instead yes makes world very simple when you ignore your own feelings

I've been reading about localization

[woven whale]

I can be mod

trust

[bright hill]

I trust lumin

[solid yarrow]

How do you guys structure your scratch work for doing proofs and stuff?

[proven knoll]

i copy my lecture notes proof and math books proof

[neat lintel]

I tend to write the premise at the top of a blank paper, and the conclusion at the bottom. Then I'll work from the bottom up, if i get stuck, I'll start working from the top down, repeat the process. Dont take my words for advice tho cuz im still learning.

[solid yarrow]

Interesting.

[neat lintel]

Yeh, I learned it from somewhere i dont remember

It's a brilliant technique, but using it didn't make me any less suck

[woven whale]

@neon tundra wait you have a phd?

[neon tundra]

Yes.
I'm not giving details of the topic (other than it was in theoretical computer science) for self-doxxing concerns, though.

[cinder zephyr]

TCS chad

[zealous garden]

Based

[zealous garden]

I think I believe you

[torn willow]

Is it fine to describe the subfield?

Like cryptography, networking,etc?

[zealous garden]

I can handle the mod pings

[woven whale]

I am a mod for a 82k server

trust

[zealous garden]

I mod for a server with about 2k

[sonic prairie]

I love you

[zealous garden]

Thanks

[sonic prairie]

But still, I don't know why my math teacher hates Topology

[zealous garden]

But topology is cool

[sonic prairie]

He is the Linear Algebra one, who is riding planes

I know right

And its applications as good as itself

In physics

[surreal sapphire]

im a mod in a 150k+ server

[sonic prairie]

(sigma song plays) 🗿

[woven whale]

who

[compact tartan]

I'm a mod on an IRC channel of 50 people

[surreal sapphire]

"mod"

irc only have @ and +

[zealous garden]

Based

[compact tartan]

the largest IRC channel I modded was about 2000 people

[surreal sapphire]

seems pretty large for irc

the only servers of this size i know provide some kind of service with bots and dont have actual chatting

[compact tartan]

yea it was #freenode on freenode

[nocturne tusk]

wow

[flat harbor]

weather is so good today

[long matrix]

lol lifehacks

[nocturne tusk]

weather is nice but when I went out in it I immediately imploded

[long matrix]

i dunt like hot weather

[flat harbor]

theres this guy in a blue shirt styrofoam coffee cup in one hand zooming around talking abt fivepointfivethree percent and business with the government of japan and kazakhstan

[nocturne tusk]

my shoulder started hurting very bad and my tummy started to ache

[flat harbor]

doctor time

go to ur gp time

[nocturne tusk]

it healed when a went back inside

[long matrix]

free health care

sotrue

[nocturne tusk]

I think my tummy is just hunger

[long matrix]

the outside is a very dangerous place

[flat harbor]

time to reap the benefits of ur parents taxymoney

[nocturne tusk]

but I also just have no appetite

[flat harbor]

try eating jelly

[rigid lion]

Jelly get in my belly

[flat harbor]

like nutrient filled jelly

u need nutrients to function

i can confirm this depressing fact

[rigid lion]

Overrated

[flat harbor]

maybe im tired of hunger migraines

maybe im tired of feeling fucking dizzy half the day

@mental stratus im here

no slowmo in this country

[nocturne tusk]

I don't want eat...

[flat harbor]

yea neither do i but we cant all do what we want now open up sweetie eat ur vitamins

[tight comet]

But imagine a future without eating

[nocturne tusk]

sounds alright

[tight comet]

awwwww

But it lessens the chance we'll meet

[nocturne tusk]

how

[neat lintel]

Maybe all the discussion channels should have 30m slowmode

[mental stratus]

sup luvvers

[nocturne tusk]

hii

[mental stratus]

hmm

[rigid lion]

https://youtu.be/XIOS8RUxXDw

[mental stratus]

think i know you

[rigid lion]

This is me frfr

[tight comet]

dunno, but you should eat to stay healthy uwu!

[nocturne tusk]

looking good > being healthy

[neat lintel]

nah

[rigid lion]

[neat lintel]

being healthy means you can do things

[nocturne tusk]

its not that tho I just have no appetite

[mental stratus]

neither do i look good nor am i healthy

[nocturne tusk]

why do things when I can be sexy instead

[neat lintel]

sexy people are only sexy

they aren't interesting

[nocturne tusk]

so be it

[neat lintel]

D:

[tight comet]

eat a bit then

[neat lintel]

i wish i could stop being such a degenerate

[nocturne tusk]

no there is already food being prepared

[solid snow]

This is not true

[nocturne tusk]

I don't want it but I must

[neat lintel]

oh i meant in relation to being healthy or being sexy, i would prefer the former

but ye

not true

[solid snow]

Ye

[nocturne tusk]

katie is sexy and interesting and cool

[cyan goblet]

@flat harbor do u know anything about complex manifolds

and if so can u tell me if they are cool

because they sound cool

[neat lintel]

ye

[rigid lion]

I dunno man, it's kind of a complex topic

[neat lintel]

first step is self-beleif

[rigid lion]

[neat lintel]

It's not evne real

[cyan goblet]

aha

aha aha

[neat lintel]

FAKE NEWS

[cyan goblet]

we got some comedians in the chat today huh

some real funny guys

[neat lintel]

[cyan goblet]

some jokesters in the chat

[rigid lion]

You're just imagining that

[mental stratus]

@flat harbor tell me about complex manifolds too

i wanna hear it

[rigid lion]

Funny is as funny does

[mental stratus]

out of yo mouth

[cyan goblet]

blo ❤️ dont talk to pika ❤️

[neat lintel]

Maybe i'm just not real myself

[mental stratus]

no, blo talk to both of us

[neat lintel]

😔

[rigid lion]

You're a figment of my imagination. Don't worry about it

[cyan goblet]

no only talk to me