serious-discussion

[neat lintel]

discord can yeet their account at any time

since assuming they turned 15 this year, it means they joined discord when they were like 9 lol

[woven whale]

I turned 15 last year

why would discord yeet my account? I'm over 13 lol

they have no reason to

[neat lintel]

as long as they can collect your data <- linux user mindset

[neat lintel]

because you joined when you were below 13

[woven whale]

they do not care about that

[zealous girder]

bc ur below 13 at the same time

[olive inlet]

Hello

[cold needle]

[frank orchid]

Does the Quotient exclude decimal point?

[long matrix]

Correct they probably do not care. However, I would like to inform you they may or may not have received multiple reports of your misdemeanors in this server. Please try again.

[plucky viper]

Just like a simple question i wanted to ask, if u get like a denominator thats thats got a radical symbol for tan and your solving for 2tan θ would u fix that before or after plugging it in?

[tall minnow]

all filed by one person?

[long moth]

[harsh lion]

[bright hill]

They do

They have data of your pre 13 year old self

That's illegal

The easiest way they could get rid of it is to just ban you lol

[elfin ridge]

When I was 13, Discord didn't even exist yet

👴

[open aspen]

Illum you use sully way too freely

You're inflating the currency of sullies

[woven whale]

tell that to shuri

[open aspen]

Don't whataboutism at me

[woven whale]

[copper gust]

i need help in math some one just go to my DM

[chilly hull]

#❓how-to-get-help

[copper gust]

i can't imagine your age

[copper gust]

thanks but it says i dont have permissin to post any thing

i need hep pls

[ocean harbor]

I'm guessing you're 19 years old now

[elfin ridge]

Bruh

If I were 19 now, it was April 2016 at the earliest that I could've been 13

My account was created in February 2016

[ocean harbor]

oh

are you 18 then?

no wait 17

[neat lintel]

Anyone older here?

Need some advice

I like maths alot and have my a levels coming up

Self taught myself further maths and advanced extension award maths, amongst doing my own research(just looking stuff up and reading) out of interest, I'm currently signed up for a degree in maths, however...

Should I do a maths degree?

Or can I make good money out of tutoring even without a degree

I don't know if a degree is a requirement you see

And id rather teach myself degree level maths and tutor to make money and gain experience, that do a degree than I could've taught myself

[elfin ridge]

Maths tutoring is very tangential to doing actual mathematical research

So ultimately it depends on what you're interested in on the long run

[neat lintel]

I enjoy maths as a hobby and would like to tutor tbh

But I don't know if I need a degree to be able to make a living as a tutor

I'm happy to make little money at the start, I can work from home

Like live with parents

Then after a few years of experience I will hopefully make enough to move out

[elfin ridge]

Up to you

I can't tell you if you'll be able to make a living by tutoring maths

Not without knowing where you're from, at least

[neat lintel]

Cambridge uk

Lol

Lots of opportunities here

[elfin ridge]

You'd best ask around for independent local math tutors

[elfin ridge]

If I am 17 right now, I was 13 four years ago

You tell me, did Discord exist four years ago (2019) when my account was created in 2016?

[ocean harbor]

okay so you're 17 this year right

[cinder zephyr]

Anyone have some cool sources of pure math puzzles?

ideally something like Project Euler

but pure math

[elfin ridge]

Try IMO

[cinder zephyr]

oh good idea

but yea need sources of brain teasers for my math / algos club

[elfin ridge]

Which line of logic are you using to conclude this

[cinder zephyr]

have stuff for the algos side, less for the pure math side 💀

[ocean harbor]

Wdym by that

im just guessing your age

[elfin ridge]

I'm not 17

[ocean harbor]

cuz im jealous your account is older

[ocean harbor]

what the

well im stupid for guessing it

[elfin ridge]

No worries, just be happy about the fact that your account was the youngest Discord account at some point in time

[ocean harbor]

lol

I made the discord account when i were 13 years old

so how old i am now?

[elfin ridge]

18 or 19

[ocean harbor]

close but which

👀

[elfin ridge]

I can't tell, I need more information

[ocean harbor]

hmm

[elfin ridge]

Depends on if your birthday is before or after 12 April (today)

Or if it's your birthday today

In which case, happy birthday @ocean harbor

🎂

[ocean harbor]

its on august 3rd actually

[neat lintel]

Anyone in America what age is stuff like the Cross product taught to u

[elfin ridge]

You're 18

[neat lintel]

Is cross product part of linear algebruh for yuo

[ocean harbor]

i will be 18 this year

rn im 17

[elfin ridge]

[ocean harbor]

prob in gr12

i live in canada but never learned something like that lol

[neat lintel]

I see

Here in UK it's only in further maths options or university so like 18 or 19

[ocean harbor]

ah nice

[elfin ridge]

You will turn 18 on 3 August 2023?

[ocean harbor]

yes

[elfin ridge]

So that means you turned 13 on 3 August 2018

[ocean harbor]

nope

in 2017

[elfin ridge]

How tf does that work

[ocean harbor]

in 2018 i was 14

2005 not 2006

[wet geyser]

Happy birthday in advanced, I'll most likely forget it

🏃‍♀️

[ocean harbor]

Thanks lol

[elfin ridge]

You too

[wet geyser]

[cinder zephyr]

I got taught it in a precalculus class

That was my sophomore year

[tall minnow]

How your high school physics teacher did not talk about cross product would be a bigger mystery

[neat lintel]

ive never seen anyone explain it well

i spent a few hours deriving it and developing a good definition but it was sooo satisfying to do

most people just say uhhh u cross the elements of two vectors

[torn willow]

You have a good definition for cross product?

[neat lintel]

better than goofy wikipedia

its just a very special solution to a system of equations

take vectors a, b and you want a vector normal to both, so a.n=b.n=0

but there are infinitely many solutions

[torn willow]

Well then cross product is just a shorthand for that?

[neat lintel]

it is but if feel understanding how to derive it is important for me

cool thing is u can set one element of the normal vector equal to one

so i+yj+zk is normal to a, b

and solving for y,z then multiplying to remove fractions you obtain the cross product

a solution to the dot product equations in terms of the original vectors that you had

the magnitude of the cross product is obtained by using cos^2(x) + sin^2(x)=1

where cos^2(x) is the (a.b/[a][b])^2 and x is the angle between vectors a and b

i will have to send my full workings

at some point, but it made so much more sense than terrible textbook definitions

my explaination doesnt sound great, but ill make a video to get my thoughts out in a coherent way and explain every line of reasoning'

[haughty lintel]

Ours didn’t but wasn’t calc based

I learned cross product in calc 3 lol

[tall minnow]

And why do we want the magnitude to be like that

[vernal token]

Do mathematicians at lectures, ... use 11pt for Beamer?
The default is \documentclass{beamer} which is the same as \documentclass[11pt]{beamer}.
I feel like Tao's slides fit more text, so it might be 10pt?

[tall minnow]

You're doing something wrong

Stop spamming text in slides

Highlight ideas not details

[tall minnow]

When you're at that level people will listen to whatever you do even if it's in PowerPoint with Comic Sans

But you're not

[burnt dune]

what is young tableux

[neat lintel]

Because it is useful

It is more concise than a horrific polymomial

First u find a vector normal to two other vectors in terms of those two vectors, get it?

Then u find the magnitude of that vector, but it is not very nice, so u simplify it using the pythagorean identity

Its a special case

That's all the cross product is, nothing more to it than that

But it's special magnitude is useful for many things

Doesn't mean you chose to give it that magnitude

Vector first, magnitude second

@tall minnow i can dm u my full reasoning, ur a postgraduate so are alot more knowledgeable, but that's how I understand cross product

[zealous garden]

wow ssiki

that sure is, something

wait Del, have you always been Grad+?

[neat lintel]

Sarcasm is very helpful

Anyway goodbye online goobers

[zealous garden]

that isn't sarcasm

[neat lintel]

Oh ok

Used to people being rude

[zealous garden]

I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying though, is the result the same as the cross product typically prescribed?

[neat lintel]

Yes sirr

I'll send a ss that should clear it up in sec I'm cooking

[vernal token]

So after I will become a post-doc, I can just copy-paste my papers into the slides, thank you

[tall minnow]

I mean, most math things are useful in one way or another.

So we are just rephrasing the question: why is that useful

For what it is worth, the cross product's main usefulness is not because of its magnitude. Or more precisely, the magnitude comes from a much more useful property

(And we need this property to prove conservation of angular momentum, as well as other things)

[tall minnow]

Nah postdocs are still just foot soldiers when you're in the company of other mathematicians

[neat lintel]

Which property?

[tall minnow]

Multilinearity. Continuous multilinearity to be precise.

That's something it inherits from the quaternions

Where it comes from

[neat lintel]

That's beyond my limited a level scope

[neat lintel]

Cross product comes from quaternions damn

I can't send my pics here whattt

[tepid brook]

Does anyone here have a math major (and a job utilizing it)? I am curious as to what problems one may encounter in their work.

I really love math but tbh the main jobs catered towards a math degree don't seem like something I'd enjoy

(I haven't gone to college yet and I will soon be in the stage where I have to send applications and stuff)

That being said my knowledge is limited, and I would be grateful towards random internet strangers helping me decide my future

[storm sage]

I'm also in that position tbh, I'm vacillating between teaching and academia

[tepid brook]

I definitely don't want to do teaching

and stuff like data analysis looks too stats based and I hate stats

[storm sage]

How come?

To both

[tepid brook]

There are lots of reasons I don't want to become a teacher, but my insane social anxiety is prob the main factor

and me disliking stats is just a personal preference

[storm sage]

Fair enough yeah

[tepid brook]

I generally enjoy the more abstract parts of math more but ig that wouldn't be used anywhere apart from academia

[wooden flax]

@storm sage have you considered going to a teaching college

or LAC

that way you can do maybe 75% teaching and 25% research (mostly with ug students)

[storm sage]

I haven't, but it doesn't appeal to me, not sure why 🤔

need to think about it more

ty though!

[wooden flax]

np

[tepid brook]

Man, as much as I absolutely love pure math and it's elegance, idk about having a career in academics

Might just pursue applied math at that point

Branching into a comuters-related field would involve apple math, right?

*applied math

[brittle socket]

Is that just based on your experience with stats in highschool? If so you might not be giving it a fair chance I guess

[tepid brook]

Yeah, I'm probably not giving it a fair chance, but looking at my sister's work from a stats module she took in uni, it doesn't look that thrilling. But then again it was a stats module in a biology degeree, so I should really look more into it from a maths pov

[storm sage]

Yeah statistics gets pretty interesting once you get access to some higher mathematics

A basic statistics class is sort of just limited to memorizing different tests to apply

[latent edge]

I like the pure math approach of stats

[woeful trout]

Those are two things I never expected to see together

[latent edge]

Now you see

[tall minnow]

research in academia is basically the only place where you stay home and do whatever research you want

I won't say recommend research life to everyone, but it is research itself that is difficult. Every other aspect is usually taken care of

[ocean harbor]

[thick elk]

@sharp cave Thank you! I think I've figured it out, but the whole idea of it is still super muddy to me.

For some reason I'm unable to post it here.

Maybe there are no images in this channel or something.

Herein we say $F=v+iw$, and denote $F_x=v_x+iw_x = -iv_y+w_y = -iF_y$, and $F_{xx}=-F_{yy}$.
\begin{flalign*}
\triangle(u\circ F)&=(u\circ F){xx} + (u\circ F){yy}\
&=(F_xu'(F))x+(F_yu'(F))y\
&=(F_x)^2u''(F)+F{xx}u'(F)+(F_y)^2u''(F)+F{yy}u'(F)\
&=((F_x)^2+(F_y)^2)u''(F)+(F_{xx}+F_{yy})u'(F),
\end{flalign*}
which is 0 since $u$, $v$, $w$ harmonic implies $u''(F)=F_{xx}+F_{yy}=0$. Therefore, $u\circ F$ is harmonic on $V$.

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

Isn't u a function of two variables? What does u' mean?

[thick elk]

Honestly, I'm still kinda shaky on it.

I had several iterations of it but multi-variable calculus is my kryptonite.

[sharp cave]

The hint here is that composition of harmonic and harmonic aren't necessarily harmonic. So you can't do it unless you specifically invoke the holomorphy of F

[thick elk]

So many notations for $\frac{\partial u}{\partial F}$

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

However, there is a completely analytical way to do this as well: Hint u = Re G for some holomorphic G. Make sense of how to interpret it and where to use it

[thick elk]

I previously had u_x(F)

but I ran things through Wolfram to see where I was going wrong and they just used primes so I thought "Huh. I didn't know it made sense to use primes here but why not"

because partial and total derivatives have always confused me so I have no small amount of disdain for computational MVC problems lol

[sharp cave]

You can also try using (\Delta u = \tfrac{1}{4} u_{z \overline{z}}) and (F_{\overline{z}} = 0).

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[thick elk]

what is tfrac?

[sharp cave]

It makes the fraction smaller

[thick elk]

huh. nice to know!

tiny frac, I guess.

Hmm...

Would it make more sense to represent this as u_x(F) [or u_y(F) respectively]?

where I currently have u'(F)

[sharp cave]

I highly doubt, I mean its still calculation so you can carry it out

[thick elk]

I mean notationally.

Like, would it technically make more sense than what I have written

[sharp cave]

It will make sense if you replace u' with u_x and u_y. Whether it will be correct is a different question

[thick elk]

Well, I'm more confident the u_x and u_y part is correct than that it makes sense.

That's what I had computed. Wolfram had the u' notation, so I just assumed I didn't know what I was doing.

[sharp cave]

Wolfram probably doesn't know u is a multivariable function

[thick elk]

I just had u(f(x,y))

but I guess that makes sense that it's only sensible if f(x,y) goes from C to C instead of C to R

or i guess

R2 to R2 instead of R2 to R1

[sharp cave]

If F goes from C to R then it is constant provided F is analytic

[thick elk]

Noted.

But does something like
\begin{align*}
\Delta (u\circ F) &= (u\circ F){xx} + (u\circ F){yy}\
&=(F_xu_x(F))_x+(F_yu_y(F))_y
\end{align*}
etc?

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

make sense

[sharp cave]

You tell me

[thick elk]

I mean from a notation standpoint.

[sharp cave]

This is just chain rule right?

[thick elk]

Yeah

[sharp cave]

So what notation are you asking about?

[thick elk]

I don't know how to do the $u_x(F)$ part without going all the way to $u_{F}$, which I think would be overkill but who knows lol

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

u_F makes no sense

u_x(F) just means, you calculate u_x and then plug in F

[thick elk]

Okay, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure how to denote it.

Particularly since we aren't writing the arguments of the other functions

like

$u_x(F(x,y))$ etc.

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

Yes, this is sensible and correct meaning of u_x(F)

[thick elk]

Does it make sense to write it that way when we also have something like $F_x$ right next to it? Since we don't have any arguments plugged in there?

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

Why not, its a product in R

[thick elk]

This is a huge part of what's always confused me—when to know what to leave explicit and what to imply with notation.

[sharp cave]

Essentially, you have written ( \frac{\partial F}{\partial x}(x,y) \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial x}(F(x,y))) where $\cdot$ is the usual multiplication in (\mathbb{C}).

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[thick elk]

So that much makes sense to me.

It's all the shorthands that confuse me

But

The fully-expanded version is just horrendous to look at when there are more than 2 lines of text.

Because it's not hard to fill up a page with that.

[sharp cave]

So write the first line in full-form and then use shorthand

So you can refer back to the meaning of shorthand if you get confused

Idk what else to tell here, this is straightforward chain rule

[thick elk]

Yeah, I think I'll give that a try.

I'll send what I have in a few minutes once I've got something typed up. By the way, thank you. You've been unexpressably helpful this semester.

[sharp cave]

Yw!

[thick elk]

I'm still a bit confused as to how the different partials interact with one another.

Here's where I'm stuck rn...
\begin{flalign*}
\triangle(u\circ F)&=(u\circ F){xx} + (u\circ F){yy}\
&=(F_xu_x(F))x+(F_yu_y(F))y\
&=(F_x)^2u{xx}(F)+F{xx}u_x(F)+(F_y)^2u_{yy}(F)+F_{yy}u_y(F)\
&=(F_x)^2u_{xx}(F)+F_{xx}u_x(F)-(F_y)^2u_{xx}(F)-F_{xx}u_y(F)\
&=((F_x)^2-(F_y)^2)u_{xx}+(u_x(F)-u_y(F))F_{xx}
\end{flalign*}

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

It feels like all of that should be correct, but it doesn't seem to be terribly helpful.

The thing with u' feels like it should be helpful, but it doesn't seem to be terribly correct.

[thick elk]

Does what I've posted make any sense or is it mistaken for some reason?

[sharp cave]

Did you see the hints I have stated

I hinted initially that direct computation won't work because you have to invoke holomorphy of F somewhere

[thick elk]

I haven't fully understood them.

More like, I haven't understood why the holomorphy of F is relevant.

Would it be possible to, from here, break F into v + iw and then make C-R substitutions?

[sharp cave]

It should be possible if you haven't made a mistake because these are all equalities

[thick elk]

Well, the follow-up question would be "would the fact that we satisfy C-R equations be useful to us at that point?"

I've gotten something to equal 0

but it's not everything yet.

\begin{flalign*}
\triangle(u\circ F)&=(u\circ F){xx} + (u\circ F){yy}\
&=(F_xu_x(F))x+(F_yu_y(F))y\
&=(F_x)^2u{xx}(F)+F{xx}u_x(F)+(F_y)^2u_{yy}(F)+F_{yy}u_y(F)\
&=(F_x)^2u_{xx}(F)+F_{xx}u_x(F)-(F_y)^2u_{xx}(F)-F_{xx}u_y(F)\
&=((F_x)^2-(F_y)^2)u_{xx}+(u_x(F)-u_y(F))F_{xx}\
&=((v_x^2-w_x^2+2iv_xw_x)+(v_y^2-w_y^2+2iv_yw_y))u_{xx}\
&+(u_{x}(F)-u_y(F))(v_{xx}+iw_{xx})\
&=((v_x^2-v_y^2-2iv_xv_y)+(v_y^2-v_x^2+2iv_xv_y))u_{xx}\
&+(u_x(F)-u_y(F))(v_{xx}+iw_{xx})\
&=0u_{xx}+(u_x(F)-u_y(F))(v_{xx}+iw_{xx})
\end{flalign*}

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

Not sure if $u_x(F)=u_y(F)$ or if $v_{xx}=-iw_{xx}$

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

I feel like it should be the latter

Oh wait, CR.

$w_x=-v_y$, so $w_{xx}=-v_{yx}$, and $v_{yy}=-w_{xy}$. I feel like this is mockingly close to complete (or I'm just lost lmao)

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

No reason for either to hold. First cannot hold because like why would it even (take u(x,y) = x), second cannot because v,w are real-valued function so the partials cannot be taking imaginary-values.

[thick elk]

Hmm.

That does make sense when you put it that way on the second.

But the problem is, if things have worked out up until this point then wouldn't it have to be true?

If the proposition is true at all

[sharp cave]

Or you are running in circles

[thick elk]

That I don't doubt, but I am a bit perplexed on what this does say about the problem.

[thick elk]

If the equations typed here are correct (nevermind useful), and the Laplacian is zero, then wouldn't it have to be true for the expression on the right to evaluate to zero?

We know the Laplacian is zero because that's what we're setting out to prove

[sharp cave]

you could be making a mistake somewhere

The way I prove this is either via analytical argument or via partials with z. Taking partials with x,y is too laborious

[thick elk]

what does it look like to take partials with z? Do you mean to say that the Laplacian is $\partial/\partial z\cdot\partial/\partial\overline{z}$?

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

^

[thick elk]

I'm not sure how to take those partials.

[sharp cave]

Sorry, 1/4 is on the other side

[thick elk]

ah right

but ultimately unimportant, no?

I guess it's a moot point.

Either way, I'm not sure how to take those partials.

[sharp cave]

Just pretend z and zbar are x and y and take partials like that

[thick elk]

Ok, I'll see what happens lol

[sharp cave]

You should be able to find [ \Delta (u \circ f) = ((\Delta u) \circ f) \cdot |f_z|^2]

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[thick elk]

Thanks for the target.

Does it matter which order I perform the partials?

[sharp cave]

No and justify why

[thick elk]

My intuition fails me here other than that it seems like it should be the case.

[sharp cave]

The functions are at-least C2 so partials commute

[thick elk]

What does C2 mean

[haughty apex]

clairaut's/schwarz's theorem

[thick elk]

continuous second derivative?

or does it just mean twice complex differentiable

[sharp cave]

continuously second differentiable

[thick elk]

Oh I think I see why that makes sense.

[haughty apex]

yoo bro just proved clairaut's theorem in 3 minutes woohoo (I kid)

[thick elk]

I mean, it seems like if it's continuously twice-differentiable then the partials should "work together" at least twice.

[haughty apex]

idk it's still pretty unintuitive to me

[thick elk]

Seems like it's the least they can do.

Though I don't fully understand what the continuity of the second derivative has to do with it. Seems a bit rude to hang up on the nitty gritty like that.

[thick elk]

Why do we end up with the modulus of f_z squared?

I'm getting this
\begin{flalign*}
\Delta(u\circ F)&=\tfrac{1}{4}(u\circ F){\overline{z}z}\
&=\tfrac{1}{4}(F{\overline{z}}u_{\overline{z}}(F))z\
&=\tfrac{1}{4}(F{\overline{z}z}u_{\overline{z}}(F)+F_{\overline{z}}u_{\overline{z}z}(F))\
&=\tfrac{1}{4}(\Delta F u_{\overline{z}}(F) + F_{\overline{z}}\Delta u(F))
\end{flalign*}

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

Is $F_{\overline{z}z}$ the same as $|F_z|^2$ for some reason?

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

I don't imagine it would be but I can't figure out why the term on the left goes to zero.

I get why \Delta u goes to 0

But I'm not sure why [\Delta Fu_{\overline{z}}(F)] goes to 0.

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

This is 0 (why? recall that if f is analytic then f_{zbar} = 0)

[thick elk]

So, I thought that was the case already

but

if that's the case

then why don't we just get it from the get go?

like

\begin{flalign*}
\Delta(u\circ F)&=\tfrac{1}{4}(u\circ F){\overline{z}z}\
&=\tfrac{1}{4}(F{\overline{z}}u_{\overline{z}}(F))z\
&=\tfrac{1}{4}(0u{\overline{z}}(F))_z=0
\end{flalign*}

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

\begin{align*}
4\Delta( u \circ f) &= (u \circ f){z\bar{z}} = ([u_z \circ f]f_z){\bar{z}} = [u_{z \bar{z}} \circ f]f_z\bar{f}{\bar{z}} +[u_z \circ f]f{z\bar{z}}\
&= [u_{z \bar{z}} \circ f]f_z\bar{f_z} +[u_z \circ f]f_{z\bar{z}}= [(4 \Delta u ) \circ f]|f_z|^2 +[u_z \circ f]f_{z\bar{z}} \
&= [(4 \Delta u ) \circ f]|f_z|^2 +[u_z \circ f] \cdot 0 = [(4 \Delta u ) \circ f]|f_z|^2
\end{align*}

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[thick elk]

Since u is harmonic that all goes to 0 anyway

But like

I'm still confused as to where we're getting the conjugate part for the squared modulus.

[sharp cave]

Which equality you are confused at?

[thick elk]

The third one

Also, would this look different if you performed the partials in the reverse order? Would we have been allowed to cancel sooner?

I still get really confused because I thought if a Laplacian was zero then the function was harmonic, but that it wasn't always the case for holomorphic functions themselves to be harmonic; just their real and imaginary parts individually.

[sharp cave]

I don't have a paper and pen to check rn but it is [ (u \circ f){\bar{z}} = (u{\bar{z}} \circ f)\cdot \bar{f}{\bar{z} }= (u{\bar{z}} \circ f)\cdot \overline{f_z}. ] I think this should be true but I don't have an immediate argument rn as to why that is. This is also why doing in reverse wouldn't solve it sooner

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[thick elk]

Why wouldn't that just be [(u\circ F){\overline{z}}=u{\overline{z}}(F)\cdot F_{\overline{z}}]

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[sharp cave]

because then this will be immediately 0

f_[zbar} = 0

[thick elk]

Right.

So...why isn't it?

[sharp cave]

then the whole thing will be zero regardless of any condition on u

Which will be false

[thick elk]

Right.

But...why?

Why isn't that just exactly what happens?

[sharp cave]

try checking the equality I proposed, I think it will work out

[thick elk]

Is it because you're implicitly computing [(u\circ F(z))_{\overline{z}}]?

[fathom swallow]

Amizar

[thick elk]

<@&268886789983436800> this guy's got a swastika bio.

[solid snow]

Did you fall asleep during history class or something

Grow up

[devout nacelle]

This is not the Hindu Swastika

It is not.

Moving on

[thick elk]

gracias

[solid snow]

I was silently enjoying the back and forth of these equations

[thick elk]

Then so shall it return.

Btw I hope that wasn't a misuse of the mod ping. I don't often flag roles in public servers.

[devout nacelle]

It's fine

[sharp cave]

Sorry what I have stated is slightly incorrect: Look at lemma 3.1 here along with the fact that f_{zbar} = 0. So the proposed equality is correct, however, a different form of chain rule was required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtinger_derivatives

[thick elk]

I'm gonna double check that we've covered this.

[sharp cave]

[ [u \circ f]{\overline{z}} = [u_z \circ f] f{\overline{z}} + [u_{\overline{z}} \circ f] \bar{f}{\overline{z}} = [u{\overline{z}} \circ f] \cdot 0 + [u_{\overline{z}} \circ f] \overline{f_z} = [u_{\overline{z}} \circ f] \overline{f_z}. ]

[fathom swallow]

cocat

[frank pendant]

How do i find the help channel

[thick elk]

Thiiiis is what I've been looking for.

We have something in the textbook

that provides this context

(I now am limited by the lack of image-sending abilities)

#real-complex-analysis

[frank pendant]

#❓how-to-get-help

Im confused

[thick elk]

Find the channel you're looking for from the menu and then post your question in whatever channel fits the subject.

@sharp cave Where are you studying?

Felt like this would probably be a more fitting place than #real-complex-analysis if we got off topic.

[wary glade]

depends which way its aiming.

it is still a peace sign for some cultures and regions, and it is the WORLD wide web.

[thick elk]

Nah his pfp was hammer and sickle and had ussr in his username

plus a bio written in German

gonna guess that was the good ol' WWII pinwheel.

[tropic tulip]

25 <= x <= 30 & 30<= x <= 35, does 30 count to both or just one

[wary glade]

does 30 = 30?

[tropic tulip]

okay calm down

I make it a habit to double check things

[wary glade]

im hoping i just gave you some logic to apply for the rest of your life instead of directly answering your question as stated.

x=30

[tropic tulip]

okay what

I'm talking about histograms here

[wary glade]

oh idk what youre doing, i thought it was like a highschool math problem or something.

[tepid brook]

In terms of algorithms, then, would there be implicit coding based modules or smth in a pure math course?

[hearty berry]

hello

[pseudo stone]

Uh huh

[neat lintel]

[tepid brook]

ic I'll do my research then

[neat lintel]

its a mix of both

for me

we have to understand the math and design pseudocode

depends on what course you are taking it from

im taking algorithms from a discrete math class

like you may have questions similar to this

this is what i take anyways

i would guess so yeah

oh i see yeah

[neat lintel]

52. is an interesting question actually

i want to think about how that is done, kind of interesting

probably haha

he was a smart lad

[real osprey]

what's the different between #1021175428326633542 and normal text channel like #help-0 ?

[ionic star]

well the forums don't get closed

[long matrix]

mroe

[tepid brook]

kk thx

[hasty leaf]

Woof

[zealous garden]

It's a small consolation after killing the man

Not really

Legally, sure

But let's be real

Lmfao

Chemical castration right

Yes it was a chemical castration

Hormone therapy which left him impotent

Lmfao

[neat lintel]

LMAO

this is hilarious

[alpine kindle]

there are millions of trans men who are experiencing this right now!

the uk govt shuns using misaligned hormones as punishment but then makes hrt inaccessible to trans people, which is basically doing the same thing

[neat lintel]

I don't think we need testosterone to have a drive or motivation.
proof : women exist.

[grim silo]

Yeah but it's distressing to not have the correct hormones. Causes depression

[neat lintel]

but yeah I guess I'll keep my balls for now

[grim silo]

It's not that Testosterone is special over Oestrogen

[neat lintel]

yeah

some hormone imbalance and shit

[alpine kindle]

willingly?

[neat lintel]

it's a bit like adhd. your brain doesn't have enough dopamine to work well.. or something like that

[alpine kindle]

trans people do not have the wrong hormones willingly...

not really

[grim silo]

Yeah it's about brain chemistry and stuff. Neuroscience stuff

[alpine kindle]

what would be better wording

?

this isn't body dysmorphia it's much more

women having the wrong hormones (more testosterone than oestrogen) is significantly significantly worse for mental health than having the correct hormones (the other way round)

there is like a 40% suicide rate for trans people pre hormone transition

which goes down to the population average afterwards

whatever mood decrease there is from lower testosterone is clearly much much less significant than the mood increase from actually having the right hormones

it is not a difficult decision

i am trans

it is not a difficult decision whether to get hrt or not

it does

well

the suicide rates say something

i should think

no

they're not actually

it's the same as the rest of the population

that's not the relevant statistic

i don't have a source to hand

[grim silo]

The reason why trans ppl are suicidal is because of dysphoria
Transition greatly reduces dysphoria
Therefore, transition reduces rate of suicide in trans ppl
Simple logic

[alpine kindle]

i know there's about 40% pre hrt and 1% post hrt

SRS isn't considered in these

this might be true

I don't know

it is absolutely that simple

gender dysphoria is awful

[grim silo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna8617

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-access-gender-affirming-hormones-during-adolescence-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

Just a few of the first results for you on Google

[alpine kindle]

ok i was incorrect

it's dysphoria

not dysmorphia

these are intertwined

yes

societal problems would probably be the issue

[grim silo]

Yep! However, if a person's friends/family are unaccepting of their transitioning, this can cause lower mood.

But that's not an issue with the transition, but rather the society and individuals' attitudes

[alpine kindle]

stop calling it dysmorphia

please

[grim silo]

This looks like a biased source. The publisher has a political or religious leaning against transgender people

Body dysmorphia is when a person is uncomfortable in their body for reasons unrelated to gender. For example, someone may have body dysmorphia in that they view themselves as ugly and fat and they hate it. This is often something which can be cured with therapy. It is learned rather than innate

Gender dysphoria is distress specifically due to a mismatch between a person's gender and their body/social position. For example, someone may feel distress at having a beard because it makes them feel like a man, or feel distress at being called "ma'am" because it makes them feel like a woman. This is innate, and therapy can't cure it. Instead, the treatment for it is to align the body/social position with the brain via transition

Depends on the person and how old they are when they take it

HRT does physical changes

E.g.: many transgender women (MtF) grow breasts on HRT

It changes a lot of things, but not everything. And it changes more for some people than others

What do you mean?

It's comparable, but they're distinct conditions. Because dysmorphia is learned but dysphoria is innate

[grave nimbus]

Hey guys, does someone know appropriate channels for asking questions about motivation letter writing?

[neat lintel]

Mm doesn't seem really related to math directly to have a related channel

[storm sage]

You can ask it here

[regal night]

What's a motivation letter?

[grave nimbus]

It's the same thing as a statement of purpose or a cover letter. You apply for something and you have to give them information on why you're qualified and why they should pick you

In my case it was for a summer school financial support but I already sent it in

[grave nimbus]

It is related to ones career as a mathematician, you write them for every position/school/scholarship you apply to

So I thought that there may be a channel for general career questions

[regal night]

Aah

Maybe #graduate-applications would be a nice fit

[neat lintel]

@swift rover you got your question solved??

[swift rover]

no

can u please help me its due tmr

and theres 7 questions

[neat lintel]

I can only explain them to you

[swift rover]

and what if i dont understand?

[neat lintel]

#help-30 you can create their

[neat lintel]

Well we will keep trying to explain to you, nothing great

[swift rover]

how do i open

[swift rover]

how

[neat lintel]

Just go there and post your question, it will automatically pin your 1st message, aka your question and will rename the channel as your username

[swift rover]

ok

[unborn sleet]

@kind belfry Have you found a solution to your problem ?

[eager reef]

[split pawn]

Timo too has nitro.

[eager reef]

bought it for my exam phase since i spent a lot of time on the computer anyway

unsubscribing after the 19th

i originally just needed it to send this

but now it was added here

[violet coral]

SAT scores came out for me today

780 on math💪💪💪

is that good enough to be a math tutor?

[torn willow]

Well absolutely

[velvet dagger]

I mean that's good for tutoring the SAT yeah

[cold needle]

Very good

Now take it again so u can get 800

[violet coral]

I have the option to take it again lmao I don’t think Ill get that good of a score again😂

1430 on whole sat

ela is mid

imo

[tall minnow]

almost anyone in a math-related major at college level will have the necessary math knowledge for "SAT maths"

but at that level it's not the technical skills, but the psychological skills of a teacher that determine things

[velvet dagger]

650 reading means it might be worth retaking for higher reading

[tall minnow]

whether or not the student likes you or gets motivated by you

[velvet dagger]

You get to superscore anyway

And my impression is you want 700 on each section

[cold needle]

Yes

[cyan goblet]

real

[sour hill]

I got 750 math 670 reading
Should’ve studied 😔

[chilly hull]

they need to make math sat harder

too easy to get 800

it should be virtually impossible to get a max score tbh

[neat lintel]

[chilly hull]

its like "oh thats pretty good" for 750+ math but nothing extraordinary

[slow arch]

its US highschool knowledge of course its easy

They don't even learn algebra in US highschools

[chilly hull]

they do..?

[slow arch]

Then why is there college algebra

and why do 80% of people fail it

[chilly hull]

no idea

[slow arch]

Checkmate

[chilly hull]

not everyone is a math/stem major

[slow arch]

and?

They learned it in highschool right?

[chilly hull]

they probably werent that good in hs

[slow arch]

why they all failing something they already know

[chilly hull]

because they figure its irrelevant to what they want to do and forget it

[slow arch]

they forgot the entire year's class in 3 months?

L memory

[chilly hull]

its possible

[slow arch]

Props to the people in every other country that learn algebra in elementary/middle school and don't forget it

[solid snow]

What?

[haughty lintel]

I think I learned algebra

😅

[stone ferry]

what high school teaches algebra

that's like 2nd-3rd year university most places

[tall minnow]

pre-uni algebra / precalc is not college abstract algebra

most people will only ever know precalc stuff as algebra

[stone ferry]

oh that's what they meant

nvm then

[timid gale]

is there a reason why we have two terms non singular matrix and invertible matrix, when they both mean the same, is there a deeper point?

[zealous garden]

Koproduct

Kool name

[rocky shuttle]

wraith's alt

[sour hill]

i drank 3 diet coke's and now i feel sick

i'm having a coke overdose

[warped creek]

You gotta drink 3 cokes to balance it out. You’re cancelling out too much sugar

[storm sage]

Invertible is an easier to remember name

Singular is an older term I think

But still used

Invertible is more general because you can use it in the context of any ring (if you know what a ring is) not just a ring of matrices

[warped creek]

You can also use it with groups, no?

Group of invertible matrices under matrix multiplication

BRB gonna find an abstract algebra name that requires minimal stuff for inverses to exist

[timid gale]

I see

[storm sage]

Yes

I mean

Every group element is invertible though

Usually you talk about ring elements being invertible/non-invertible

[warped creek]

I thought you were pointing out the most general case possible for inverses to make sense mb

[timid gale]

feels bizarre when my prof keeps using invertible and non singular

[timid gale]

kommutator

[zealous garden]

I wish I was that cool

[bright hill]

Zane staying up late

[slow arch]

Bro what universe are you living in?

I learnt algebra in 6th grade

and yeah it was college abstract algebra.

We got college credits while in middle school

Texas

Bro what

You are insane

How do you look at at katakana and think its korean?

GO TO SCHOOL

[ivory hawk]

Hello everyone, I have recently started exploring the world of mathematics. However, I am facing difficulties in solving exercises and problems due to a lack of resources. Could anyone kindly offer me some guidance or help me find relevant sources?

[rocky shuttle]

Math is very broad, what kind of problems are you talking about?

[ivory hawk]

i have good foundation, but i can't find worksheet.

i refer to worksheet, textbook , not exercise

[eager reef]

College algebra or college abstract algebra?

[tough nacelle]

https://discord.com/channels/268882317391429632/1096747106309509220

[tough nacelle]

How to solve this problem?

[brittle socket]

Don't multipost

Be patient

[neat lintel]

Abstract algebra they learned in college

I'm taking abstract algebra next sem

What do you guys learn at first?

[alpine comet]

Groups, rings, ideals, endomorphisms.

[neat lintel]

Lowkey touched on rings in a proofs class

[alpine comet]

Then back to groups, normal stuff, abelian stuff, free stuff, finitely generated stuff, torsion stuff

[neat lintel]

group theory is applied in CS stuff

They all sound interesting

[alpine comet]

Depends on the taste xD

[neat lintel]

I was thinking of preparing for it during the summer

[alpine comet]

Too abstract for me, but oh well, it's a must if I wanna do Maths

[neat lintel]

I know there's like a division between analysis and algebra folks

[alpine comet]

What? Nah, both things are the same.

[neat lintel]

o.O

[alpine comet]

Ok, not exactly the same, but you'll see a lot of connections.

[neat lintel]

should I take analysis or algebra first

[alpine comet]

For example, "torsion" in "torsion groups" refers to the fact that it accounts for the twisting (sort of) of the topological object in homological groups.

[alpine comet]

Take both at the same time. It'll make sense.

[neat lintel]

I think I can take only one cause they're both scheduled at the same time

[vast surge]

Neither is a prerequisite for the other.

[alpine comet]

That's so stupid

[neat lintel]

Yeah lol

[alpine comet]

I mean, depends on what sort of CS you wanna do, each of the two will have their own benefits.

[vast surge]

If you liked calculus, take analysis first. If you only like finite numbers, take algebra first. (There are infinite groups and rings and stuff, but algebra I tends to deal a lot with finite groups).

[alpine comet]

But, be sure to master linear algebra if you don't wanna suffer.

[vast surge]

My delete key doesn't work, so when I retyped a sentence but better it didn't delete my first attempt

[vast surge]

Yes but this is true for both.

[neat lintel]

took that so long ago

[alpine comet]

Noice

[neat lintel]

I don't think I remember a a whole lot lol

[vast surge]

Spend the summer reviewing at least a bit to make sure it doesn't fuck you up, if you're not sure whether you're up-to-date on your LA.

[neat lintel]

We used some dumb LA stuff in CS

[vast surge]

Lots of people like LADR but I don't like its treatment of determinants. Read LADW instead

[neat lintel]

but never like the actual math stuff

Maybe I should watch some MIT lectures on it during the summer

[alpine comet]

I'm sure CS ppl use a ton of LA. The only two topics coming to mind that don't have LA are formal methods and cryptography.

[vast surge]

https://www.math.brown.edu/streil/papers/LADW/LADW_2017-09-04.pdf is an LA textbook

[neat lintel]

yeah but it's only just matrix multiplication

Like I used it in data science a bit

[alpine comet]

Try 3blue1brown, he gives good intuition

Beyond that... man, idk, I never really had problems with LA

[vast surge]

Definitely make sure to do exercises though. It's easy to passively consume something like 3b1b and think you understand when you don't really.

[alpine comet]

Khan is worth a shot. I liked the lectures on tensors, not sure how good it is on LA.

[vast surge]

Textbooks often have large selections of exercises. I think Khan also has LA exercises but I don't really know offhand.

[alpine comet]

The only thing I hate about exercises from textbooks is that they never, ever, ever have solutions.

It's equally useless to do exercises without knowing if it's correct or not.

[vast surge]

I feel like there's two extremes and a middle-ground. You can read the exercise and do well and know you're doing well, or read it and think you're doing well when you're really, really not. Or, in the middle, you can acknowledge "this is hard, I don't grok this" and then earmark it for review when you have access to a professor or more mathematical maturity.

[alpine comet]

I mean, it's good for some prof to prepare material for a class, they're more than competent to solve the exercises themselves. But for us the student folks, it's tough.

[vast surge]

I feel like there's definitely a time when you're able to identify a flawed argument and then you're able to solve exercises yourself and know whether you were right, unless the subject is particularly subtle.

[peak tide]

having answers at the back of the book can lead to lazy habits, that's probably why most authors don't include them (plus it's labor intensive to write up the solutions)

[vast surge]

If you can't tell whether you're getting something right or wrong, you can always post a question to #❓how-to-get-help or r/learnmath or something.

[alpine comet]

at least just include some correct answers for quantitative questions

[peak tide]

well a fair number of books do that, if they have computational exercises

less common at higher levels tho

[vast surge]

It's really only a problem if you think you're correct but you're very confidently wrong, in which case, I'm not sure how much even a professor/grader would be able to help.

[peak tide]

but when in doubt, post the question and your attempted solution somewhere like MSE, highlighting the parts you aren't sure about (if appropriate)

[alpine comet]

At that level, you kinda need fewer exercises.

I mean, I learn whatever it takes to solve problems I encounter, and I should be able to tell if it's correct or not.

[vast surge]

The best exercises are the ones that are actually open, unsolved problems.

(Also, I've found a lot of sufficiently advanced books leave out nontrivial parts of proofs, so if you're looking for exercises in something like that it's not hard to make your own - "fill in the gaps in the proof of theorem 4.20" or whatever)

[peak tide]

yes, this - with a terse book like say Rudin, you can consider the whole book as a series of "fill in the gaps" exercises

you can also just read the theorem statements and try to write a proof yourself before reading the author's

[neat lintel]

I mean proof based LA has a different flavour

[vast surge]

Of course that's a very time-consuming procedure

So, do it if you have the time or if getting the understanding is really that important to what you're doing

[alpine comet]

I often try to prove the lemmas when I learn about a new theory. In the beginning they're not so hard, and it teaches you how to build a math theory, which is far more important.

[vast surge]

It's also fine to blackbox some results from time to time when you don't have the time and just need the result.

[peak tide]

or you can do it with a subset of the theorems, like you'd probably do a subset of the exercises

[alpine comet]

I know man, I know.

[vast surge]

Try reading LADW. I think I dropped the link somewhere above, but I can find it again if you want.

[neat lintel]

every CS major in an algorithms class

[alpine comet]

every CS major

[neat lintel]

what's LADW? Linear algebra for dummies?

[vast surge]

Linear Algebra Done Wrong. It's a play on the title of LADR, Linear Algebra Done Right, which is a famous textbook.

[neat lintel]

Oh I might've had a pdf of those before

[vast surge]

LADW is in my opinion the better book, though.

[neat lintel]

it's good a idea

In practice, people think of concepts in an incorrect way, but after they learn the correct one they forget where they went wrong

[vast surge]

I'm expecting to get offers from grad schools I'm waitlisted at today or tomorrow so every time I hear my email "ding" my heart skips a beat.

[neat lintel]

So when they teach it there's a lot of hindsight bias

[peak tide]

LADW is also a free legal download, so kudos to the author for that

[vast surge]

So are several other books. Hefferon is a free download, and I think the newest version of LADR is a free legal download.

[alpine comet]

fingercrossed

any names u wanna share?

[vast surge]

I think I'm right near the top of the UNebraska, UMass and UIowa waitlists, but it's hard to tell for certain

[alpine comet]

But, even if u don't get in, it's OK.

[vast surge]

And SUNY Buffalo just haven't responded to my application in months. I wasn't accepted, rejected or waitlisted even this late.

[vast surge]

No it's not. If I don't get in then I'm a failure and my parents were right about me.

[alpine comet]

Maybe send them an email. I also had to send one, that mf forgot to update the application portal.

I swear to God, I'll make them regret for turning me down.

[neat lintel]

Your parents actually said?

[vast surge]

I recieved info about grad student housing and an admissions interview at University of Rochester a day after they rejected me. I contacted them to see if it was in error, and the rejection was not, they forgot to take me out of the system for those emails.

[alpine comet]

Lmao, June Huh got rejected everywhere but one school. He just won a Field medalist. Don't worry.

[vast surge]

Sure, but he also got into Michigan, which is a slight step up in terms of prestige from where I applied. His safety was my reach.

(Michigan rejected me, in case you're curious)

[alpine comet]

Also, I happened to learn that a prof in my uni, even with a postdoc at MIT under his belt, still struggled to get tenured. He just got it recently, with all strings pulled. The head of the team got shoulder pain for a loooong time.

[neat lintel]

how hard is it to apply for a masters?

[vast surge]

I've heard harder than a PhD, but I've also heard that they're easier because they're not funded.

[alpine comet]

Prestige is irrelevant up to a point. It matters more your supervisors, your team, how good you are and who you know.

[alpine comet]

Depends on your profile. I heard abt someone who got in for PhD but not Masters, and vice versa. Could be an outlier tho.

[neat lintel]

Don't phds need more funding

[vast surge]

Yeah. And it's not like the schools I'm waiting to hear back from are unprestigious anyway; it's the difference between a top 10 and a top 40 pretty much. But it certainly doesn't hurt to go somewhere prestigious when you're looking for a job afterwards.

[alpine comet]

Yes, but.... well, if you're in US, it means your supervisor got a, well, slave, for a few years.

[neat lintel]

o.O

[vast surge]

Yeah. Often masters just don't get any funding at all.

[neat lintel]

so with a masters you have to pay out of your own pocket?

Or find some other source of funding like a company

[alpine comet]

Yes babe

[vast surge]

Or a loan

[alpine comet]

Or a scholarship, if you're ludicrously lucky

Not genius, just lucky

[neat lintel]

Masters scholarships are rare

[vast surge]

Funded masters exist, they're just a lot less common and a bit more competitive

[neat lintel]

That's why I'm thinking of working at a tech company after graduation

[alpine comet]

Not so glamorous huh? xD

[neat lintel]

And getting a master's some time later

[alpine comet]

I hope the situation gets better when you graduate. It's a bit messy this year.

[vast surge]

That's what lots of people do. Work for a few years, save up and then use that money to pay for a masters.

[vast surge]

Yeah. I've heard I'm competing with a lot more people who've taken gap years than is normal due to the pandemic.

[neat lintel]

Best case scenario company funds my masters

[alpine comet]

and then, added to that are the layoffs

[vast surge]

Like, I'm competing with 2023 seniors, 2022 seniors and 2021 seniors.

It's just such a competitive year to be applying for PhDs.

[alpine comet]

Like, my LinkedIn are filled with MIT grads, top GPA, exp at BigTech, and now they're struggling to find a job and extend their visa.

[vast surge]

Are universities laying off profs?

[alpine comet]

I'm talking about the tech world xD

[neat lintel]

international students must have it rough

[vast surge]

Ah. That makes sense.

[alpine comet]

Oh you bet. I've heard horror stories. I'm sooooo glad that I dodged a bullet by not going to US.

[vast surge]

Yeah. If you don't get a job straight away pretty much your visa expires and they kick you out of America, if that's where you are.

[neat lintel]

Even then there's a limit on the h1b visa

It's 3 years first and another 3 years for an extension I think

[alpine comet]

iirc, you have 2 months, but what companies do is they accept you, but defer the decision by 6 months.

Oh oh, tough luck.

New grads this year have a horrible time

[neat lintel]

Int students really lack negotiating power cause they fear deportation more

[vast surge]

It also really seems like a dam is bursting and lots of people are starting all at once

[alpine comet]

In CS, it's so hard to get jobs, that ppl pour into PhD programs to get paid in the mean time.

I mean, oh c'monnnnn, it's hard enough to be in academia already

[vast surge]

Oof. Everyone keeps telling me to look into coding jobs as a backup if I can't do academia, and I keep telling them it's not for me.

[alpine comet]

Too many went to CS because they thought they could make good easy bucks. Well, it was the case, but there must come a time the party is over.

[neat lintel]

Bruh CS ppl have a habit of telling other ppl to learn coding

[vast surge]

"If you know math you can program" shut the fuck up I only know programming because it's a requirement for the math major it's such a radically different skillset that that is absolutely untrue

[alpine comet]

Like, "oh, I'm so good, I go to Coursera, learn about ML from Andrew Ng, and now I'm making 100k"

No you don't

[neat lintel]

They say that because of their math based classes

[vast surge]

I also just don't like the CS program at my school, which sounds similar to lots of schools

[neat lintel]

CS majors believe they're getting a math degree

[vast surge]

Professors keep shoving programming into every course, even the ones that don't require programming like the foundations of computation course that's meant to teach logic and turing machines

[alpine comet]

Like, these legit mfs think they can import seaborn and become a data scientist. Shut the hell up, you don't even know what Bayesian interpretation is.

[neat lintel]

seaborn is for web dev

[vast surge]

The CS degree isn't a math degree, it's a professional certification saying you know how to code

[neat lintel]

not even that

[daring roost]

can I ask about gcses

gcses additional mathemetis

[vast surge]

#❓how-to-get-help

[neat lintel]

There are data science classes in CS curriculums these days that actually do teach probability and stats

[vast surge]

Good luck with your gcses.

[tropic tulip]

I find that unlikely

[neat lintel]

I'm taking one

[wild lantern]

Most cs programs have reqs for stats and prob

[daring roost]

thanks , I have on may

[neat lintel]

By a professor who appeared in articles and magazines because he predicted crimes before they even happened

[vast surge]

My school's doesn't, despite still having a joint math/cs department.

[alpine comet]

My condolences. I hope you'll get it over with a good grade.

[wild lantern]

That's concerning tbh

[alpine comet]

My school requires doing a math degree if you wanna do a CS degree

[vast surge]

This is some fucking minority report shit

[alpine comet]

I mean, it makes some sense

[wild lantern]

What kind of math degree?

[neat lintel]

we're learning about fairness awareness models

[vast surge]

It's a joint department still because there was one guy who's been there since the '80s who liked to teach both, but he retired last year. The only interaction between the two halves nowadays is that the math majors need to take 2 semesters of java programming.

[alpine comet]

Ssshhhhh, that's one way to get funding in AI

As if AI dept doesn't have enough already. Idk what they're doing anymore.

[wild lantern]

Is your school fairly small?

[vast surge]

Absolutely tiny.

[wild lantern]

Okay, that makes a lot more sense then.

[alpine comet]

One that allows you to do Masters in Pure Maths?

[vast surge]

We're down to 5 math professors now, because the line for the visiting professor wasn't renewed and the other guy retired and his line of funding is technically CS now so he's being replaced by a CS prof.

[alpine comet]

What? 5?

[wild lantern]

Are you talking about the reqs for a cs bs or a higher cs degree?

[alpine comet]

We have 20, and even that is small already

[vast surge]

See, 20 is massive compared to where I am

It used to be 8 when I started

[alpine comet]

No, I mean, we are required to do a double major Math-CS if we wanna do CS.

[vast surge]

Like, my school is small enough that there are entire departments of 2 people. Classics I think only has 1 professor.

[alpine comet]

Actually we are required to do a major in Math, regardless of what we wanna do.

[neat lintel]

what country is this

[wild lantern]

Hmm, here doing the bare minimum cs bs degree would put you roughly at the same amt of math as a math as minus a couple classes.

[alpine comet]

🥖

[vast surge]

America. Just a smaller school.

[wild lantern]

Not anywhere close to the math reqs for a math bachelors tho

[neat lintel]

nah US lets you pick majors

[vast surge]

Yeah. And the requirements for the math major require an ungodly amount of programming.

[neat lintel]

the only forced double major i've heard of is for education majors

[alpine comet]

We got some pretty legit stuff, like differential geometry, convex anal, topo, etc.

[vast surge]

Oh I think you're mixing up my messages and Megumi's.

[wild lantern]

That's badass

[alpine comet]

A lot of ppl hate it. They thought a CS degree was easy

[wild lantern]

Our course offerings are way slimmer

[alpine comet]

well, too bad, they chose the wrong school

[vast surge]

I do convex anal with your mom

[wild lantern]

Even here the cs degree isn't exactly easy and we're very industry focused

[neat lintel]

That's weird cause my algorithms class for CS requires 0 programming

It's really a math class

[alpine comet]

Yeah, that's the only down side: we dropped the industry stuff. So no database, no software design, no management, etc.

Great if you wanna do research

Equally great if u wanna do quant

[wild lantern]

Those are all really good classes to take still imo

[alpine comet]

Not so great to go to BigTech

[vast surge]

As I said. My school's CS degree is basically a professional certificate in computer programming, rather than anything actually teaching the theoretical computer science.

[neat lintel]

That's actually good

for most ppl

[vast surge]

I hate it

[neat lintel]

They want the practical stuff

[vast surge]

The good CS professor left and now I'm trying to finish a minor with a bunch of professors who don't care about interesting things

[wild lantern]

Even for people that want to do practical stuff, theoretical foundations are p important.

[neat lintel]

idk how true that is

[alpine comet]

That's not how it should be done. At the end of the day, you can only prove so much. You still need to implement them and see how it's actually done. Only then can you see the problems that don't show up in the proofs.

[vast surge]

(the good one being, the one who was also a math professor)

[neat lintel]

Ik but my cs class is like that

[wild lantern]

Not every problem is shitting out a crud app that you can basically bs ur way thru using so.

[neat lintel]

I wish we made crud apps

[alpine comet]

I'm not surprised if after this class, you say you'll use, say, ellipsoid method instead of simplex

[wild lantern]

You're not missing much lmao

[vast surge]

Like, when we were learning about logical conjunction and disjunction operators in my foundations of computation course, the homework was "program a bunch of nested if statements". If I didn't already know what "and" and "or" meant from my other math classes I wouldn't have learned it in that class.

[neat lintel]

ah this class doesn't cover linear programming

There's a math class about that

[alpine comet]

It is true. A friend of mine joined a start-up, I don't recall when. But he told me these ppl used bubble sort.

[neat lintel]

in pratice quicksort is the best

[alpine comet]

They had abs no notion of complexity class.

[alpine comet]

Ahhh, you see, it depends

[wild lantern]

Bogosort > all those other trash sorts

[vast surge]

In practice bogosort is the best. You can't beat O(n!)

[neat lintel]

if we're just sorting stuff then I'd go with quick

Lol

[alpine comet]

In general, it's the fastest, but many data sets have underlying structures that can be exploited

[vast surge]

Actually wait I did develop an O((n!)!) algorithm at one point

[sacred root]

anyone knows a way i can mk money online

[vast surge]

You do bogosort on the 1st, and then on the 1st 2, then the 1st 3, etc., and if it's ever not sorted you restart from the beginning.

[vast surge]

Become a professional ROBLOX youtuber.

[sacred root]

i'm not really into gaming

any other way

[vast surge]

No.

[neat lintel]

i thought probability based algorithms were interesting. We proved the expected runtime of quicksort using probability maths I learned

[alpine comet]

Becoming a tutor is not a bad option, if you have the patience.

I recall some websites allow you to apply and become a software tester. Not sure how much they pay.

[vast surge]

I did a typo here, but I think I fixed it so my algorithm makes sense now

[sacred root]

tutor as offering courses online

[alpine comet]

Awwww, that's cute.

[neat lintel]

No it was quiet serious math

Not as cute as you think

[sacred root]

i need money anyways??

[alpine comet]

If only you knew what I know. Trust me, enjoy it while it lasts

[vast surge]

Math is cute.

[alpine comet]

Yes

[vast surge]

We've been over this already.

[neat lintel]

You should look up the proof for the expected runtime of quicksort

[sacred root]

tutoring sounds kind of stressful

i would consider it though

[neat lintel]

I took a senior level probability class from the math department

[alpine comet]

I know man, I know. I rederived it for my final exam last year.

[sacred root]

does anyone know anybody studying dis course "industrial math"

[neat lintel]

I'd be surprised if that were true

[alpine comet]

It can be fun. Some ppl really enjoy teaching. I enjoy giving seminars, not teaching

[neat lintel]

if you're teaching middle schoolers it can be annoying

[alpine comet]

Those folks are the worst, hand down.

[sacred root]

but u know there are free tutorials on youtube

[neat lintel]

what math class was that btw?

[alpine comet]

But some of them are really cute.

[sacred root]

i would personally rather watch youtube

[alpine comet]

Intro to Algorithm Design

[neat lintel]

Sounds cool

[alpine comet]

We learned up to polynomial-time reduction and all

But boy the lectures were boring

[neat lintel]

We don't have any algorithms class by the math department

[alpine comet]

Nah, it was from CS dept

[neat lintel]

Oh okay lol

[alpine comet]

Math dept here does God-know-what stuff

[vast surge]

no you're really cute ;)

[sacred root]

does anyone agree with me that AI would soon takeover all dis math calculations

[neat lintel]

Cause most math majors wouldn't be able to prove algorithms problems

[alpine comet]

Chat GPT still proves sqrt(4) is irrational. I think we're safe for a while

[vast surge]

The proof is trivial.

[neat lintel]

chat gpt can't count

[sacred root]

😂

[alpine comet]

It really depends. Some ppl can't learn from YouTube or books or anything. They really need someone to explain to them, and to ask questions.

[sacred root]

the truth is AI would get better over the coming years

[vast surge]

Suppose sqrt(4) were rational. Then it could be written as some number a/b. So a^2/b^2=4, so a^2=4b^2

But, that means a is divisible by 4, so we write a=4k, so b^2=4k^2

[alpine comet]

I don't doubt that, but what can we do about it?

[sacred root]

nothing really

[neat lintel]

hold up

[vast surge]

So b is divisible by 4, so b=4j. So a/b isn't in simplest terms.

[alpine comet]

Yeah, but I also have CS major, remember? xD

[neat lintel]

that doesn't immediately imply 4 divides a

[vast surge]

Therefore sqrt(4) is irrational, qed

[neat lintel]

4 divides a^2

[alpine comet]

r/wooosh

[peak tide]

cmon everyone knows 4 is prime

[sacred root]

4 is even

[neat lintel]

is that what chatgpt said?

i thought the guy was actually saying that's a proof lol

[vast surge]

I don't know how to use chatgpt

I can't figure out the login thing

[neat lintel]

you use your email

[sacred root]

it is simple

[vast surge]

Yeah that sounds complicated

[alpine comet]

https://twitter.com/littmath/status/1598128056874721283

[neat lintel]

it's like making any account on a site

[vast surge]

I just mimicked the proof that sqrt(p) is irrational for all prime numbers p and plugged in p=4

Which works because 4Z is a primary ideal of Z

So 4 is prime

QED

[alpine comet]

I was also reading a paper this evening, where there was an argument I couldn't follow. I asked ChatGPT, and it gave a very convincing answer.

[neat lintel]

i don't get these advanced math jokes bruh

[alpine comet]

I had to read, like, 3 times, to find how it's circular reasoning

the thing about ChatGPT is, it's very convincing.

[neat lintel]

ChatGPT is good at using language, but it has no sense of reasoning

[alpine comet]

It didn't have a sense of logic. But it's not the hardest thing to add, I'm sure ppl will do it in coming years.

Like, how hard it is to plug it with, idk, Coq? Can't be too bad.

[neat lintel]

I don't know how far they can go with that given that natural language doesn't follow formal logic either

[peak tide]

logic is supposed to be the forte of computers, language not so much.. it's like ChatGPT forgot that it is a computer

[alpine comet]

Even then, we're still safe for a while. It's not so trivial to be creative.

ChatGPT won't have a PhD in maths anytime soon.

[neat lintel]

Even in day to day life, people don't exert their capacity for reason in their speech most of the time

[vast surge]

Anyway I'm going to go eat food

[frigid lark]

all I can say is that chatgpt helps at coding and is gonna replace stackoverflow.

It often precisely knows what I exactly want. thats scary. xD instead of me googling trough the documentations and suffer

[winter shore]

im in algebra 2, just got through factoring polynomials, what can i do to get ahead?

[frigid lark]

Ciara#7360 is not even on this server weird weird. a discord acc created today adding me.

instant banned?

[woven whale]

khan academy

[dapper current]

but it needs stackoverflow to keep existing to mine from it, presumably

[winter shore]

yeah i checked that out before, but id like a list of skills. i put a request in on help