#linear-algebra

2 messages · Page 177 of 1

limber sierra
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or if youre just allowed to use the standard form

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all rotation matrices in 2 dimensions end up looking like this

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where theta is your angle of (counterclockwise) rotation

fervent gulch
limber sierra
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yeah but my point is i dont know whether you've been shown that rotation matrix in class before

fervent gulch
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A bit, not to much

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*too

zinc tapir
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Okay idk if i'm thinking way too hard about it but given this definition and this thm

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im asked to prove that for real or complex matrices,

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I just don't know where to begin

wintry steppe
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||AB|| is the smallest constant satisfying (...), right? so what if you could show that ||A||||B|| also satisfies (...)? would that finish the proof?

lavish jewel
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what's a good and easy way to get an overestimate of a matrix's largest singular value?

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i'm thinking of applications with gradient descent, so hopefully the overestimate is not too large

safe blaze
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How to do this one

lavish jewel
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test the definition of a subspace

sick zodiac
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Is anyone in here able to do a tutor session for linear?

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im struggling

safe blaze
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@lavish jewel I'm kinda confused there

lavish jewel
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well, what's the definition of a subspace?

safe blaze
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As far I know you it's like if it satisfies these 3 conditions

  1. non-empty (or equivalently, containing the zero vector)

  2. closure under addition

  3. closure under scalar multiplication

tame mural
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Yup so now test if it's closed.

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Imagine some situations to see if you can or can't break closure

safe blaze
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So the first and 3rd condition aren't satisfying

tame mural
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yup

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I prefer to think of subspace as a subset of a vector space which is still a vector space under the same operations as the parent space

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That way I don't have details like "it's not empty"

limber sierra
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in the sense that it's implied by the existence of an additive identity

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the empty set still does not form a vector space

sick zodiac
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Can a brother/sister help a homie out with a proof?

limber sierra
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do you know how to check whether something is a subspace?

sick zodiac
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We just defined it an hour ago

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Non-empty, closure under addition, closure under scalar multiplication.

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The big concern for me is quantifying it under the range of T

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If U is a subspace of V, it implies all it's vectors are a subset of the vectors of V, right?

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I'm having an issue with the notation

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I need this in english.

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lol

nocturne jewel
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Yes U is a subset of V, specifically a subspace

sick zodiac
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I just don't understand what it means by range(T) and how to apply the subspace rules.

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because if it was asking if TU was a subspace of W

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it would make more sense to me

nocturne jewel
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range(T) is all the vectors in W "reached" by T

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So if you take a vector in V and throw it through T, you get something in W which is also in range(T)

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range(T) is a subset of W, you want to show T[U] is a subspace of range(T)

sick zodiac
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which to me sounds like, if you throw anything in U through T, you'd get something that has to be in W because everything in V went to W (after going through T).

nocturne jewel
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right

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but specifically you'll get stuff which makes up range(T)

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which is a subset of W

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$T[U] \subseteq range(T) \subseteq W$

stoic pythonBOT
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moshill1

sharp idol
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Oh shoot, can we do latex on here?

nocturne jewel
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Yes

sick zodiac
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So just pick random vectors for U, like x1, x2, y1,y2 and then roll through the properties.

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For a proof sake

nocturne jewel
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You just go through subspace / naive test

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0 is an element
linear combination of elements is an element

silver quarry
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When I give the order all 4 of these equations are order 1 correct? Just clarifying

sharp idol
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However, to answer your question briefly, no. I see two of these that are differential equations of order 2.

silver quarry
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Yep its c and e

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Thanks

jaunty cairn
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I think I've done a mistake here. Can't seem to figure out what it is.

sonic osprey
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It seems like you went from cos(theta_x) + cos(theta_y) in one line to cos(theta_x + theta_y) in teh next

jaunty cairn
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That was cos a cos b + sin a sin b = cos (a-b) if it's the line just after first expression in lambda squared.

sonic osprey
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No look at the linear term in your polynomial

jaunty cairn
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However the subsequent steps I had corrected it

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The expression for lambda has the proper coefficients

sonic osprey
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ah yeah

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is there a reason you expect that this is the wrong answer?

jaunty cairn
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I am expecting the answer to be in simple terms.

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Exactly pi/4 + (theta x+ theta y)/2 and -pi/4 + (theta x + theta y)/2

slim ice
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just a question, do you know one of the two eigen values ?

jaunty cairn
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The image as expression for the Eigen values.

slim ice
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if so, you can straight up "hack" and use the trace

jaunty cairn
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I'm not able to get that expression I have in the box to be in simple terms despite multiple tries.

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After inserting the expression for lambda in it.

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There's a square root of some expression in sines and cosines and it super complex to take out.

slim ice
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what I get for the determinant is $\lambda^2-2\lambda\cos(\theta)+1=0$

stoic pythonBOT
jaunty cairn
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How?

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The two theta are different.

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There's theta x and theta y.

slim ice
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$(cosθ−λ)2+ sin2θ= 0$

jaunty cairn
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Column 1 is theta x and column 2 is theta y.

stoic pythonBOT
slim ice
dusky epoch
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@slim ice did you miss one of these ^

slim ice
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I didnt see

slim ice
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I have to type it twice for it to appear

jaunty cairn
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Visually speaking the transformation twists x component by theta x and y component by theta y.

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Ok I get it. My expected answer is wrong.

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Or is it right 😔

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If theta x = theta y I will never get a Eigen vector.

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Since all points will rotate by that angle.

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During transformation.

slim ice
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If I note $t=\theta_x,,u=\theta_y$, I find $$\chi_T=\cos(t) \cos(u) -\cos(t)\lambda -\cos(u)\lambda + \lambda^2+ \sin(t)\sin(u)$$ where $\chi_T$ is the characteristic polynomial

jaunty cairn
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I think there is one mistake in that calculation

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You have two Sint sin u

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It should have one sin t sin u and one cos t cos u.

slim ice
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the left term is cos

stoic pythonBOT
slim ice
jaunty cairn
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Yeah. If you try to solve for lambda you get a fairly complex equation

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I have written that in my image

slim ice
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yep

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and whats the matter

jaunty cairn
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I expected a particular answer.

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Now I'm having second thoughts on what I expected.

slim ice
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you're expression is in fact not complex enough

jaunty cairn
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Eigen value can become complex in certain scenarios.

slim ice
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and it makes more sense than yours because If I put $u=t$ or $\theta_x=\theta_y$ I find the standard rotation matrix eigen values with my formula
Not with yours

stoic pythonBOT
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Compile Error! Click the errors reaction for more information.
(You may edit your message to recompile.)

jaunty cairn
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If theta x and theta y are equal (and non multiples of n*pi) the Eigen vectors and Eigen value won't be real.

slim ice
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but working out the complex formula leads to the standard complex eigen values

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because every rotation matrix is $\mathbb{C}$-diagonalisable with eigenvalues $$\lambda=e^{i\pm \theta}$$

stoic pythonBOT
jaunty cairn
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Thanks. I guess my equations are right then.

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My expected answer is what is wrong.

slim ice
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you have written a $\sin^2$ instead of a $\cos^2$, which lead to an incorrect factoring of $(\cos+\cos)^2$

jaunty cairn
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Where?

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I donot see any sine squared in my image.

stoic pythonBOT
slim ice
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in your lambda expr

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or thats just me after 3yrs not doing trig

tawdry bramble
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I have 2 second degree polynomials: ax^2 + bx + c and a(x-h)^2 + k. Given that these are vector spaces, can I show that these two spaces are equal?

waxen flume
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I got B,D

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am I missing any?

stable kindle
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heh heh heh

tawdry bramble
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Isn't (A^-1)^-1)= A

stable kindle
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yes

waxen flume
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so A,B,C,D are all right

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@stable kindle

stable kindle
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think so

waxen flume
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since a non-invertible matrix is one that doesnt have pivot in every row

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A, B, are automatically not true

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What about C and D?

tawdry bramble
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How can I represent the set of 2x2 singular matrices?

limber sierra
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you could do something like $\mathrm{M}{2\times 2}(\bR) \setminus \mathrm{GL}{2}(\bR)$ but

stoic pythonBOT
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Namington

limber sierra
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i feel like it'd be more clear just to say "let S_2 be the set of 2x2 singular matrices" or whatever

limber sierra
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hint: ||try literally any non-square matrix||

tawdry bramble
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Ok. Because the question prompted to me was "Determin if the set of 2x2 singular matrices is a subspace"

waxen flume
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I ended up going with all false

quartz compass
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that's not true, A doesn't need to be invertible for that to be true

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A=[1,0]

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multiply this by x=[b;0]

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yup

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yeah that's basically how I think of it too, like projecting down to a smaller space

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at least I find this perspective helps for thinking about how to invert rectangular matrices

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definitely imo lol

wary lily
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man, I should learn a little linear algebra so that this channel makes sense to me

stable kindle
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mood

north steeple
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when finding the area of a parallelogram with determinants, can you use any two vertices? or are there specific ones you have to use?

brisk fractal
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the parallelogram has to be spanned by the vectors you choose

north steeple
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what do you mean by that

brisk fractal
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here let me draw a pic

north steeple
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ok thank you

brisk fractal
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the parallelogram in blue comes from a different choice of vertices than the parallelogram in red

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the red line are supposed to show where the two overlap

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actually wait

north steeple
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i see

brisk fractal
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they have the same area lol

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sorry yeah I'm being dumb

north steeple
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ok but how would i know which ones to use for the blue

brisk fractal
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it comes from two consecutive sides, specifically the sides formed by vectors from the origin

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so the blue one would be that middle long vector and the vector on the bottom right

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the fact that they have the same area comes from det(a + b, b) = det(a,b) = det(a, b + a)

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sorry, with labels

north steeple
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ok I see

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tahnks

brisk fractal
crude ridge
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If you have a m x n coefficient matrix with more rows than columns, are the columns independent as long as there are at least n independent rows?

faint lintel
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what is the zero vector of V/W?

sonic osprey
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0 + W

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aka W

faint lintel
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ok cool that's what I figured

ruby loom
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Can a vector in a list/set which is linearly dependent be linearly dependent on multiple linearly independent vectors, or can a linearly dependent vector only ever be dependent on a single vector?

wintry steppe
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define "dependent on a vector"

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and clarify the "in a list/set" condition

ruby loom
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Well, I'll take that to mean that we don't really talk about being dependent on a vector, rather we talk about being dependent on sets of vectors?

wintry steppe
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define "dependent on a vector"
and clarify the "in a list/set" condition

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"in the span of" maybe?

ruby loom
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Uhm yes, do we not use the terminology "dependent on" in general? We might say sets of vectors are linearly dependent or independent, but not that they're dependent on eachother?

wintry steppe
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the terminology "dependent on" is not very standard, in my experience

ruby loom
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okay, noted

wintry steppe
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linear dependence/independence is a property of a set of vectors

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and not of a single vector (or a single vector relative to a set)

ruby loom
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okay, that makes sense. I think I confused myself with the terminology I was using. Lin. dependence means some vector(s) in the set can be represented as linear combo of the others in the set, I'm clear on that

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tyty

nocturne jewel
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I feel like I'm messing up somewhere on J[t^2] but idk where

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nvm doing the bounds wrong

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actually no, still messing up, now J[t]

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$J[t]=0.5\int_{-1}^1 3t+6st^2-15s^2t^3 \dd{s} = 0.5[3st+3s^2t^2-5s^3t^3]_{-1}^1$

stoic pythonBOT
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moshill1

nocturne jewel
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Main issue is I get t^3 in the final answer when J is suppose to be an operator on polynomials up to quadratics sully

quartz compass
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you're plugging in t when you should be plugging in s

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also I recommend plugging in with f(t) = t^n and doing them all at one go

nocturne jewel
quartz compass
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ah I didn't though

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the formula says f(s)

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you're putting f(t)

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one is the variable of integration, the other isn't

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it would be wrong if I said f(s)=t^n

nocturne jewel
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"plugging in with f(t) = t^n"

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that means plugging in f(t), which you said is wrong

quartz compass
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you don't understand functions if you think that's wrong

nocturne jewel
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wow so helpful

quartz compass
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f(t)=t^n means when you plug in f(s) you put s^n

nocturne jewel
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yeah ik that

quartz compass
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well then why are you saying I'm wrong? lol

nocturne jewel
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cause you literally said plug in s plug in t back to back

quartz compass
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do you see what you did wrong or not

nocturne jewel
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Yes, do you see how you worded it poorly or not

quartz compass
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lol I worded it perfectly well

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there's no reason to get angry

nocturne jewel
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Not my fault you're insulting when you "help" 🙃

gray dust
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you're plugging in t when you should be plugging in s
how you messed up finding J[t]
also I recommend plugging in with f(t) = t^n and doing them all at one go
for finding the image of each vector in M under J

cunning pier
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Soo I'm confused by this homomorphism

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What would the marked function be equal to
Or more specific what would phi(blueBell) be equal to in the set N

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I got this as well

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why would phi(blueBell) = yellowGift

west orchid
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phi(blueBell)=phi(greenBell * greenBell)=phi(greenBell) * phi(greenBell)=blueGift * blueGift = yellowGift

wintry steppe
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Could anyone help?

opal prism
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Boys. I have a quick question. I’m very stupid but wanna know if this is okay

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Can I do that?

west orchid
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no

opal prism
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No?!

tame mural
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It's not linear algebra IMO

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wrong place to ask

west orchid
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that too

opal prism
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Oops. My b

west orchid
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anyway, plug in h=1, you get sqrt(16-4)=sqrt(12) and that does not equal 4-2=2

opal prism
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Damn! Okay! Makes sense!

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Srry fir the dumb question. But thanks cheif

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✊🏿

lavish jewel
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sure, the x is multiplied by 0

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i dont see why you substituted y and z tho, all you did was change their name

native rampart
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an element in that subspace is like (x,18z,z)

floral tide
native rampart
wintry steppe
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Why is determinant of a matrix defined the way it is? Is it just some random value mathematicians agreed upon as it showed up in tons of places and decided to give it a name or is there some deep universal reason for it's existence?

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Oh, I don't understand it but it seems like how the rule for multiplication of multi-digit numbers seem very weird and out of blue for a kid but they start to make sense as they learn more about the fundamentals.

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Anyway, thanks for the help <3

wary lily
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This is interesting. It states that the determinant of a 3*3 matrix is the answer to the volume of a parallelpiped, created by vectors that are columns of the matrix. The next chapter of my calc 3 studies introduces the concept of the cross product and then the Triple Scalar Product, which is also the volume of a parallelpiped.

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$|(\mb{u} \times \mb{v}) \cdot \mb{w}| = |\mb{u} \times \mb{v} ||\mb{w}||\cos\theta|$

stable kindle
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yes

stoic pythonBOT
stable kindle
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if you just stare at how the 3x3 determinant is calculated you'll see it's the scalar triple product in action i think

wary lily
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It must somehow be by definition

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because that's the same parallelpiped constructed out of those 3 vectors

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It's exciting when different branches of math converge

gray dust
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we can check X satisfies the vector space axioms, or if we already know C[0,1] is a vector space then we know X inherits its vector space structure and can just check X is nonempty & closed under linear combos

red prawn
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the constant 0 function is in X
If $f,g:\mathcal{C}[0,1]$ and $f(0)=g(0)=0$, and if $\alpha, \beta\in \mathbb{R}$, then $\alpha f(0) + \beta g(0) = 0$, so $\alpha f + \beta g\in X$

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etc.

marble lance
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You don't need to write out the whole proof for them lol

gray dust
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it’s also wrong

red prawn
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kernel is a linear notion, since linear of zero is still zero

stoic pythonBOT
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Apopheniac

gray dust
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still wrong

marble lance
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That too, and wrong in a strange way

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Your conclusion

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Anyway

red prawn
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If you add and multiply 0 you get 0. what's wrong with that?

marble lance
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@solemn orbit Do you know what you'll have to prove to prove that a subset is a subspace?

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@red prawn ||you are concluding that f and g are in X. That is not what you should be concluding. But don't fix it, let them do it themself||

red prawn
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why wouldn't you be able to conclude that f and g are in X, from what I have written? I left out that linear is continuous. that is implicit in the "etc." that i said after.

marble lance
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Bruh

gray dust
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they must already know C[0,1] is a vector space which i doubt

marble lance
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You can conclude that

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You don't want to

gray dust
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which is why i first suggested directly using vector space axioms

red prawn
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So, those are things that you have to show for axioms of a vector space. I didn't list all of them, just a couple

marble lance
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You have to prove IF f and g are in X, then af + bg is in X.

red prawn
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That's what I did.

marble lance
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Lol

gray dust
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you didn’t conclude af+bg in X

red prawn
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If $f,g:\mathcal{C}[0,1]$ and $f(0)=g(0)=0$, and if $\alpha, \beta\in \mathbb{R}$, then $\alpha f(0) + \beta g(0) = 0$, so $\alpha f + \beta g\in X$

stoic pythonBOT
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Apopheniac

red prawn
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There.

marble lance
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What happened to "don't fix it, let them do it themself"?

gray dust
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and even if you do it right, it’s not YOUR hw

nocturne jewel
red prawn
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and you're not MY boss

marble lance
gray dust
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this server isn’t where you do others’ hw for them

marble lance
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First off, it's important to clarify. Do you already know that C[0,1] is a vector space?

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Yes, do you know that continuous functions form a vector space ?

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You cannot use X being a subspace of C[0,1] if you do not already know that C[0,1] is a vector space.

red prawn
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There are other axioms you have to check to complete the problem. Ergo, I did not solve the problem entirely.

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Etc.

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I would suggest proving directly from the axioms that this is indeed a vector space.

nocturne jewel
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wow almost like that was suggested already

marble lance
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I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. Because you aren't really answering my question. What's your native language? Maybe there's someone who can actually speak it and help you better.

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Because it satisfies the vector space axioms.

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If you don't know that, then you can't use that.

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So you have to prove all the axioms for X.

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Try doing that, and tell me if you are stuck.

nocturne jewel
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it just means the function has a root at x=0

marble lance
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It's all the continuous functions that also satisfy the condition f(0) = 0

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So if you want to show something belongs to the set. You have to show it is continuous and it satisfies f(0) = 0

marble lance
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No

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@solemn orbit

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Check for closure

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The problem is the extra conditions

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Only some of those allow the sets to be closed under + and scalar multiplyint

lavish jewel
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take as an example f(x) = x + 1, g(x) = cos(x)

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test if the second one up there is satisfied

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g(0) = 1, no?

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oh you wanna satisfy all 4 at the same time?

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then what's the problem

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i did say look at the second one up there

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what's the definition of a vector space

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there's no additive identity

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no, i mean, that's the problem with case 2

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there under the additive axioms you have 0+x = x+0 = x

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case 2 doesn't seem to me to have a "0" element

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because all the functions in the set have f(0) = 1

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if you add any two of them together, you will get w(x) = f(x) + g(x), w(0) = 2

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mhm

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mhm

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everything you said so far is true

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this has nothing to do with the things oyu have said

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mhm

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look at the definition of your set lol

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the 0 function is some h(x) = 0

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for which h(0) = 0

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it's not in the set

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i have no idea what you're confused about, i'll leave this to someone else

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sorry but i already explained it, you just don't know what a straight line is

nocturne jewel
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You want to find a function in the set, O(x), such that O(x) + f(x) = f(x) for all f

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In functions, the only function with that property is the zero function O(x) = 0, but the zero function does not satisfy the requirement of O(0)=1

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so the 0 function isnt in the set thus there's no additive identity

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we can also argue that if such O existed, (O+f)(0) != 1

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since O(0)+f(0) = 1+1 = 2

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yeah, ik

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cause we only care about the interval [0,1]

lavish jewel
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because they literally told you it HAS to be f(0) = 1

nocturne jewel
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yeah... the condition is still f(0)=1

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idgaf about f(1/2) or f(-63)

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as long as f is in C[0,1] and f(0) = 1, it's in X

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condition

lavish jewel
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as a condition for all the functions in X

nocturne jewel
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the y intercept of the function must be 1

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f(0)=1 also isnt a line

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yeah

lavish jewel
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yeah but that has nothing to do with the problem

nocturne jewel
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we're not saying anything about f(a)=0

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Yeah

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cause there isnt

lavish jewel
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lol

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a 0 element is a function that you add it to another one, and you get that other one

nocturne jewel
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Ok let's assume for a second there is a 0 element for the set, ok

lavish jewel
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regardless of what it was

nocturne jewel
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let's call the 0 element z(x)

I propose that z(x) + f(x) = f(x), with f and z being in the set
This means that f(0) and z(0)+f(0) should equal the same thing, namely 1
Computing both sides I get 2=1, which is not true, hence my assumption that z is the 0 element is wrong

Therefore no zero element exists

lavish jewel
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you don'T know what a vector space is, do you?

nocturne jewel
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Edd has explained

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and has helped

lavish jewel
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i explained it in 3 different ways, moshill1 recapped the approaches i took and now followed new ones

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and you're not understanding us because you don't know what a vector space is to begin with

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we can't do anything for you unless you know what the question is even asking you for

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look at the axioms you yourself copy pasted here. is there anything about addition with scalars there?

quartz compass
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I've noticed students in this channel have been having a habit of blaming the helpers for their own mistakes lately, weird

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or the quality of students has gone down

lavish jewel
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let's just drop it here lol

nocturne jewel
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Linear Algebra has become the worst channel mctcliSip

stable kindle
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dumb q, because it's not an element, right?

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it's not in the set

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aza

nocturne jewel
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Oh god Ann's here

stable kindle
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i just don't understand, it's not a 0 element bc it's not in the set right

dusky epoch
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@solemn orbit is g meant to be the function that returns the value 1 at x=0 and zero elsewhere?

stable kindle
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jesus what a circus

dusky epoch
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maybe don't tell people to kill themselves, aza.

nocturne jewel
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Slim maybe dont encourage it?

stable kindle
#

you can't have g(x) = 0 and also g(0) = 1

lavish jewel
#

everyone stop spamming and let ann explain, since she's giving it a shot now. chill out

dusky epoch
#

is this what you want g to be?

stable kindle
#

you can't do that

#

bc if a = 0 g(a) =1 but also g(a) = 0

#

that's not a thing

dusky epoch
#

this is self-contradictory as-is

#

okay so then it's what i said

#

then your function is not continuous

#

and so it's not in C[0,1]

stable kindle
#

then at a = 0 f(a) + g(a) = 2 =/= f(a)

dusky epoch
#

the function g(x) = {1 if x=0; 0 otherwise} is not continuous, therefore not a member of C[0,1], therefore not a member of the set {f in C[0,1] | f(0)=1}, therefore why are we even talking about it?

stable kindle
#

alright seems like you've got this covered imma go

dusky epoch
#

and why do we care about g(1) being 0?

#

this function is not the zero function no matter how much you wish for it to be.

#

f+g is not the same function as g.

#

you aren't adding an entire function with just one value from another.

#

you know, there's an even simpler way of explaining why {f in C[0,1] | f(0)=1} is not a subspace of C[0,1]

#

yes that's the zero element of C[0,1]. it's known as the zero function.

#

it's the function which returns 0 everywhere.

#

you are right about set #3 being a vector space, but you are wrong about the reason

#

haven't you been given the definition of a vector space?

#

there are two things to check here: closure under addition and closure under scaling

#

if you have two functions f and g, such that they're both in C^1[-1,1] and f'(0) = g'(0) = 0, will (f+g)'(0) be 0 too?
and if you have some scalar k, will (k*f)'(0) also be 0?

#

eh?

#

wait

#

... how familiar are you with calculus

#

i literally explained them to you for this particular example sully

#

the "demonstration" is trivial if you know a thing or two about calculus.

#

which... do you?

#

if you have two functions f and g, such that they're both in C^1[-1,1] and f'(0) = g'(0) = 0, will (f+g)'(0) be 0 too?

#

closure under addition means that if you add two elements of your set the sum is still in the set

#

closure under scaling means that if you multiply an element of your set by a real number the result is still in the set

#

you think so?

#

how come your answer isn't "of course, obviously"

#

can you please not use the R word

nocturne jewel
#

nothing to try... you just dont type a word

limber sierra
#

Let's move on.

dusky epoch
#

aza, just out of curiosity, how old are you

limber sierra
#

I muted

#

and I'd rather you not ask questions about muted users since they dont really have a chance to respond

dusky epoch
#

oh

limber sierra
#

okay never mind, they DMed me very rude things

dusky epoch
#

i didnt see the role

limber sierra
#

so i banned

dusky epoch
#

oh

#

welp, there goes that one lol

limber sierra
#

truly a great loss to society.

lavish jewel
#

sorry about the shit show, that got out of hand quickly

wary lily
#

didn't read all but from what I saw you tried hard, Edd

nocturne jewel
#

$A^T = -A$ is the definition of A being anti-symmetric right?

stoic pythonBOT
#

moshill1

half karma
#

The x not being there is messing me up
so is it y=18z+0*x
then I let: y=s and z=t
I know i'll have the vertical matrix [s, 18t , t],
but I got

umbral yew
#

what exactly confuses you

half karma
#

ooo I get it now

lavish jewel
#

well, if z = t, y = 18t

#

and then x can be whatever, since it is multiplied by 0

half karma
#

I'm seeing that now lol wew

#

Thank you

lavish jewel
#

aight

limber sierra
#

this isnt quite linear algebra but its fine, lets study the ones digit of n!

#

1! = 1
2! = 2
3! = 6
4! = 24
5! = 120

#

and everything after that also has a ones digit of 0

#

(since it has a factor of 2 and 5)

#

so our possible ones digits for a! and for b! are 1, 2, 6, 4, 0

#

the remaining possible ones digits are determined by all possible differences there

#

for example, 5 is also possible, since if you subtract something with a ones digit of 6 from something with a ones digit of 1, you get a ones digit of 5

#

(in fact, this happens ONLY for 3! - 1!)

#

8 is possible, since 0 - 2 would produce 8

#

for example, 5! - 2! = 118

#

can you check the remaining possible digits? (the ones left are 3, 7, 9)

nocturne jewel
#

Oh i was just helping them in calc

limber sierra
#

dang multiposters

nocturne jewel
#

I mean took me a minute to realize you can just set b=5 and then run through a values sully

#

forgot 2*5=10

gritty swift
#

quick linear algebra question, if the columns of $A$ are dependent, can a projection matrix $P$ still exist?
my intuition says if you throw away the redundant cols (to make $(A^TA)$ invertible) then you could use the standard projection formula.
but it woulden't work by default since $N(A) = N(A^TA) \implies n = N(A^TA)$ for $n > 0$ which means $A^TA$ is singular, right?

stoic pythonBOT
cold ravine
#

I believe there is a condition of full column rank necessary to make $A^{T}A$ invertible but I don't remember

stoic pythonBOT
#

HisMajestytheSquid

dense meadow
#

Uh, hi there!

nocturne jewel
gritty swift
#

@cold ravine yeah there is, I'm just saying if you threw away the dependent columns coulden't you project after?

dense meadow
#

Im just introducing myself. After all, im new in this channel.

dense meadow
#

...so

cold ravine
#

However, I have certainly never dealt with it myself

gritty swift
#

ok cool

cold ravine
#

If you wanna looksee

gritty swift
outer lance
limber sierra
#

basically it's asking you to show that, if you multiply everything in a basis by some square invertible matrix

#

the resulting products form a basis as well

#

then it's asking you to apply this if you multiply the standard basis vectors by the matrix

#

it might be better to think about the second question first

#

to get a concrete example

#

although not really necessary for the proof

fervent gulch
#

@limber sierra i think this is easy, can you tell me what i should do

nocturne jewel
fervent gulch
nocturne jewel
#

T as in the transformation in the question..

#

T[e1] = []^T
T[e2] = []^T

fervent gulch
#

pi corresponds to 180 and -1,0

nocturne jewel
#

Ok so rotate e1 by pi, what do you get?

fervent gulch
#

idk what is e1 tho

nocturne jewel
#

$\hat{i}$

stoic pythonBOT
#

moshill1

nocturne jewel
#

[1,0]^T

fervent gulch
#

ohhh okay

nocturne jewel
#

$e_n$ is the nth canonical basis vector for $\mathbb{R}^n$

stoic pythonBOT
#

moshill1

nocturne jewel
#

ie 1 in the nth position, 0 else

fervent gulch
#

is it cos(390)

nocturne jewel
#

how did your vector become a scalar?

fervent gulch
#

i mean (2,0), (2,4)

nocturne jewel
#

huh

#

rotate e1 by 180 degrees, what do you get?

fervent gulch
#

-1,0

nocturne jewel
#

right, so reflect that in the x axis, what do you get?

fervent gulch
#

eh 1.0?

#

the sign changes?

nocturne jewel
#

the sign of what changes?

fervent gulch
#

nvm. idk

nocturne jewel
#

if you were asked to reflect a point in the x-axis, do you know what happens?

gritty swift
#

@fervent gulch

#

you follow where the basis vectors land

#

think of a point like (2, 1) as telling you to multiply the first basis vector by 2, the second basis vector by 1 and add

#

Home page: https://www.3blue1brown.com/
Matrices can be thought of as transforming space, and understanding how this work is crucial for understanding many other ideas that follow in linear algebra.

Full series: http://3b1b.co/eola

Future series like this are funded by the community, through Patreon, where supporters get early access as the se...

▶ Play video
fervent gulch
gritty swift
#

oh sorry, i forgot the reflection

#

but if you get the idea its easy to continue it

#

just do the reflection and follow the basis vectors

fervent gulch
gritty swift
#

sure, so we start here

#

(I'm calling $\hat i$ and $\hat j$ the basis vectors, but they just go in the matrix)

stoic pythonBOT
gritty swift
#

then this is after a 180 degree rotation

#

then we reflect over the x-axis

#

so if you wanted to describe the vector $v = \begin{bmatrix}1 & 2\end{bmatrix}$ you would multiply $\begin{bmatrix}-1 & 0 \ 0 & 1\end{bmatrix}\begin{bmatrix}1 \ 2\end{bmatrix}$

stoic pythonBOT
gritty swift
#

notice how matrix multiplication is defined, we take 1 of the first basis vector $\hat i$ and 2 of $\hat j$ j hat

stoic pythonBOT
gritty swift
#

also since A is a diagonal matrix you can just read it off as scaling the first element by -1 and the second element by 1

#

diagonal matrices scale each component in a vector when they multiply them

fervent gulch
#

yea that makes sense

little sage
#

does x^2+2x+4=x+1 have one solution?

frosty vapor
#

thats a cool visualization

fresh obsidian
quartz compass
#

look at the discriminant, see if it's 0 or not

fresh obsidian
#

no nonlinear equations allowed herePi_thonk

half karma
#

I was asked to find a basis for row and column space. I know how to do them but I'm wondering if my ref of this is correct:

stoic pythonBOT
#

A Kid Named Galois

half karma
#

<@&286206848099549185> help me plz

limber sierra
#

,w row reduce {{1, 2, 3, 1, 3}, {1, 3, 4, 3, 6}, {2, 2, 4, 3, 5}, {2, 1, 3, 2, 3}}

stoic pythonBOT
limber sierra
#

seems fine besides the extra column

#

just to make sure

#

,w row reduce {{1, 2, 3, 1, 3}, {0, 1, 1, 2, 3}, {0, 0, 0, 5, 5}, {0, 0, 0, 0, 0}

stoic pythonBOT
limber sierra
#

yep

#

its good

#

(again, except the extra column - not sure whether theres something in your technique im missing)

half karma
#

I do it for my calculator to accept it

#

I’m confused as to whether we use ref or rref?

limber sierra
#

doesnt matter

#

the real purpose of row reduction is just to identify & eliminate linearly dependent rows

#

row echelon form "guarantees" that they've all been eliminated

#

ie the remaining rows are linearly independent

half karma
#

Perfect. That was throwing me off. Thank you

limber sierra
#

in theory if you wanted

#

you could just keep track of the row swaps you did

#

and use the original rows instead of your reduced ones

#

ie for every nonzero "ending" row, take the "original" row (keeping track of swaps) as your basis vector

#

now theres not much reason to do this for rows

#

(you should do it for columns though)

#

my point is that it makes no difference "how much" youve reduced a row

half karma
#

That's what they make us do for columns lol literally my next question

limber sierra
#

hence REF and RREF are equally valid

#

yeah

#

the problem is that row operations MAY change the span of columns

#

they dont change rows, as i mentioned

#

but they do change columns

#

fortunately you can just use the original columns instead

#

(it might be worth convincing yourself why this makes sense; think about how the way pivot variables work guarantees they're linearly independent)

half karma
#

My next question gives you different answers for columns depending on if you use ref or rref. Let me post

limber sierra
#

it might

#

but both of the answers should work

#

ie be linearly independent and spanning

wind pasture
#

If the linear system Ax=0Ax=0 has at least one solution then Ax=bAx=b must have at least one solution.

#

is this statement true?

limber sierra
#

no, counterexample: let A be the matrix of all 0s, and b a nonzero vector.

wind pasture
#

thought so, thanks

nocturne jewel
#

The basis for the kernel of an invertible linear operator is just {0} right?

limber sierra
#

the kernel of an invertible operator is {0}; what is the basis for this space?

#

its not {0}

tame mural
#

no

#

U don't need a basis for the trivial space

limber sierra
#

more precisely, the basis is empty

nocturne jewel
#

so null set?

#

OH because {0} isnt linearly independent?

limber sierra
#

right

nocturne jewel
#

since 0=a*0 for all a

limber sierra
#

the basis is the null set

#

this might seem a bit counterintuitive since how do we write the 0 vector as... a sum of 0 elements?

#

but you can think of it as an "empty sum"

#

so to speak

nocturne jewel
#

But then the basis of image would be any basis of the vector space since Im(T)=vector space

limber sierra
#

huh

nocturne jewel
#

Im(T) = V since T is a linear operator and V is finite dimensional, so a basis of the image would be any basis of V

tame mural
#

It'd be more clear to say the dim of basis of the image is equal to the dim of basis for the domain

#

imo it is also alluded to in the definition of linearity

#

Which maps coordinates in one space to coordinates in another

nocturne jewel
#

Yeah but if 2 vector spaces are equal, they can have the same basis

tame mural
#

Yup, aka endomorphisms

nocturne jewel
#

Yeah that's what I was trying to phrase lol

half karma
#

Lol I barely understood y’all 😂

#

I’m stuck on this omg

tame mural
#

A solution is unique when a matrix is full-rank

half karma
tame mural
#

full-rank means injectivity

#

and injectivity means uniqueness

half karma
#

Oof we didn’t learn about full tank yet but I said something close to it lol

robust lava
#

does anyone know markov chains

#

having an issue with this problem

sonic osprey
#

What have you tried?

robust lava
#

@sonic osprey

#

Im just literally lost

#

LH is lunch home

sonic osprey
#

Have you seen this type of problem?

robust lava
#

Ls Lunch school

#

no this is new content our professor just showed us

#

@sonic osprey

#

like im convinced Im at the right spot

#

I just dont know where to go from here

#

td= today lunch and tm is tomorrow lunch

#

Ls lunch school lh lunch home

sonic osprey
#

so if I have 100 students eating in the cafeteria today, what will the distribution be tomorrow?

robust lava
#

34

#

@sonic osprey

sonic osprey
#

34 what

robust lava
#

34 students

sonic osprey
#

34 students what

robust lava
#

will be eating tomorrow

sonic osprey
#

eating what tomorrow

robust lava
#

eating their lunch from school tomorrow

sonic osprey
#

and how many are bringing lunch from home

robust lava
#

tomorrow or today?

#

@sonic osprey

sonic osprey
#

tomorrow

robust lava
#

44

sonic osprey
#

44?

#

There are 100 total students though

robust lava
#

44 students

#

yes

sonic osprey
#

so uh

#

is 34 + 44 = 100

robust lava
#

but the other 56 are eating lunch from home today

robust lava
#

@sonic osprey sent u a dm

uneven wadi
#

ik this is a mainly pure math server but is anyone here familiar with group theory or irreducible representations as applied to infrared spectroscopy? Im asking in here cause it uses linear alg to solve it

sonic osprey
#

@wind yacht

dawn apex
#

zoph wtfCrittyRainbow

sonic osprey
#

lmao what

#

this is like

#

poco's domain

#

or yours ig

frosty vapor
#

lmao

#

whre is poco sadcat

sonic osprey
#

playing a deck building game or something idk

rancid fjord
#

Could someone help me out with this? im lost

#

not really sure where to start with this, i know that it's vectors and i need to put them into a 2x2 matrix since it's R^2 but not sure where to go from there. any help is appreciated

limber sierra
#

well, the idea is that applying T to your vectors should be the same thing as multiplying them by your matrix (on the left)

#

so let's view this as solving a system:

#

\begin{align*}\begin{bmatrix}a&b\c&d\end{bmatrix}\begin{bmatrix}2\1\end{bmatrix} &= \begin{bmatrix}4\-5\end{bmatrix}\\begin{bmatrix}a&b\c&d\end{bmatrix}\begin{bmatrix}1\3\end{bmatrix} &= \begin{bmatrix}6\1\end{bmatrix}\end{align*}

stoic pythonBOT
#

Namington

limber sierra
#

do you understand what i've done so far?

#

@rancid fjord

rancid fjord
#

yes that makes sense so far

limber sierra
#

alright, so now lets expand out those products:

#

\begin{align*}\begin{bmatrix}2a + b \ 2c + d\end{bmatrix} &= \begin{bmatrix}4\-5\end{bmatrix}\\begin{bmatrix}a + 3b\c + 3d\end{bmatrix} &= \begin{bmatrix}6\1\end{bmatrix}\end{align*}

#

oops

stoic pythonBOT
#

Namington

limber sierra
#

do you see how i got that?

#

and now we can simply view this as a system of linear equations:

#

\begin{align*}2a + b &= 4 \ 2c + d &= -5 \ a + 3b &= 6 \ c + 3d &= 1\end{align*}

stoic pythonBOT
#

Namington

limber sierra
#

now solve that system

rancid fjord
#

a= 6/5
b= 8/5
c= -16/5
d= 7/5
?

west orchid
#

yeah that's correct

rancid fjord
#

so i just put this into the abcd matrix format?

west orchid
#

yeah the matrix is $\begin{bmatrix}6/5&8/5\-16/5&7/5\end{bmatrix}$

stoic pythonBOT
limber sierra
#

you can check to make sure it works as well

#

to make sure you didnt make any arithmetic mistakes

#

,w {{6/5, 8/5}, {-16/5, 7/5}}{{2}, {1}}

stoic pythonBOT
limber sierra
#

,w {{6/5, 8/5}, {-16/5, 7/5}}{{1}, {3}}

stoic pythonBOT
limber sierra
#

yep, it works.

#

agrees with T for those vectors

rancid fjord
#

Thank you so much!! @limber sierra you too @west orchid

#

yall are lifesavers! ive been stuck for so long

limber sierra
#

note that this isnt the most efficient method

#

it works, but there are other ways to tackle this

#

the reason they work, though, is because this works

#

they're just "streamlined" versions of this process

hollow ruin
#

Could anyone help? I guess I need an integral that is 1 for f(t) = 1 and 0 otherwise but can't find a function that this works for?

hollow ruin
#

would you need the matrix to find this basis?

humble oak
#

Let S and T be two spans of vectors where S and T are subspaces of R^3, what's the general method to find a basis for the intersection of S and T?

hollow ruin
#

I'm not 100 % sure, I've got this so far but am thrown off by having it as an integral, I can find a dual basis for a functional with each element by inverting the matrix and then substituting in

gray dust
#

@humble oak let's put it down formally; this applies to any such S and T spanned by finitely many vectors. let S=span{x_1,...,x_n} and T=span{y_1,...,y_m}. a vector x is in S cap T iff x is in S and x is in T iff there exist scalars c_1,...,c_n,d_1,...,d_m where x=c_1x_1+...+c_nx_n=d_1y_1+...+d_my_m. we can rewrite this as c_1x_1+...+c_nx_n-d_1y_1-...-d_my_m=0; we get a linear system and can find a basis of its solution set by usual methods, giving a basis of S cap T

humble oak
#

ah i see okay, thanks

keen coyote
#

For question 5.5

#

Isn't this missing the assumption that AA^* is invertible?

#

Because otherwise how can you write the projection onto RanA^*

lavish jewel
#

not really

#

use as an example Ax = y

#

then (A^HA)^-1 A^H y = x_rowspace

#

the row space is the range of A^H

#

oh, it says orthogonal projections, lemme check that again

keen coyote
#

Yeah

#

Here's what I have so far

#

with 5 being for this question

lavish jewel
#

it should be what you have at the bottom

keen coyote
#

Yeah but A* A invertible doesn't imply AA* invertible

#

which is my concern

lavish jewel
#

you take x, move it onto the column space, and move it back to the row space

#

i mean

#

x row -> col is done by Ax

#

and x_rowspace = (A^H A)^-1 A^H y

#

if y is Ax, then x_rowspace = (A^H A)^-1 A^H A x

stable kindle
#

dumb q, if a* a is invertible, then the determinant is non-zero, so a a* should have same determinant and so be invertible? am i missing something?

keen coyote
#

nope that's a good one

#

you're right

lavish jewel
#

not necessarily, to be fair

#

it only means A is full column rank

keen coyote
#

oh jk ig lol

#

oh yeah A is not square

lavish jewel
#

right

#

then A A^H is not invertible

stable kindle
#

oh, ah

#

non-square matrices 😔

keen coyote
#

cause im not really following

lavish jewel
#

to what invertibility?

keen coyote
#

The invertibility of (AA^H)

lavish jewel
#

it isn't

keen coyote
#

oh

lavish jewel
#

i got that result without having to do that inverse

#

Ax is definitely in the column space of A, by definition

#

you can start like this

#

x = x_ns + x_rs

#

null space and row space components

keen coyote
#

ok

lavish jewel
#

then Ax = Ax_ns + Ax_rs = 0 + Ax_rs

keen coyote
#

Oh I see the rest

lavish jewel
#

Ax_rs is in the column space of A, so Ax = Ax_rs = y

keen coyote
#

Cause then A is left invertible

lavish jewel
#

then we bring this back from col space to row space

#

mhm

keen coyote
#

By assumption

#

Ok nice

#

Thanks

lavish jewel
#

aight

keen coyote
#

much appreciated

zinc tapir
keen coyote
lavish jewel
#

yeah because (A^H A)^-1 being invertible implies full column rank

#

that means A of size M x N has rank N, and so the null space contains only the 0 vector

#

x is projected onto the row space by the identity matrix

#

the row space is all of R^N

keen coyote
#

aha ok

#

thanks again

lavish jewel
#

if A^H A were not invertible, then the projection matrix would not be an identity

#

and you would just SVD the hell out of this 😛

keen coyote
#

haven't learned svd yet

lavish jewel
#

aight

keen coyote
#

lol

#

soon tho

lavish jewel
#

all of these projection problems will become clearer and easier once you do

keen coyote
#

kk

#

Sounds good

steel acorn
#

I was going over ref and rref. I don't understand why is matrix B in rref? doesn't it have to satisfy this condition?
"The leading entry in each row is the only non-zero entry in its column."

#

(please ping me)

#

Thank you!!!

stable kindle
#

it seems like a special case, since the second column can't be touched by any of the other rows

steel acorn
limber sierra
#

"The leading entry in each row is the only non-zero entry in its column."
it does satisfy this

#

why do you think it doesnt?

#

these are the leading entries and their columns

stable kindle
#

gonna be honest, my linalg is extremely spotty tho

limber sierra
#

and yes, the variable corresponding to the second column would be a free variable here.

#

this isnt a "special case" though

#

it matches the definition

steel acorn
stable kindle
#

yeah for some reason i read their thing as 'in its row' i think

#

idek

#

words are hard

steel acorn
#

i interchanged rows and columns

#

and got conufsed

#

thank you so much!! @limber sierra and @stable kindle

steel acorn
#

is this matrix in row echelon form?

tame mural
#

This is kind of a noob question, but where might one run into trouble on the differences between cancelling and inverting?

limber sierra
limber sierra
tame mural
#

Well I read that monomorphism is the same as left-cancelling, and that epimorphism is the same as right-cancelling, and that together you don't have isomorphism but bimorphism.

#

But then there's discussion suggesting that the distinction is really niche

#

I remember while working through the naturals that there was some effort to make nuance on the difference between inverting and cancelling

limber sierra
#

in the context of linear algebra at least, theres no difference

#

a linear map is injective iff it is surjective

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and invertible iff it is bijective

fickle sable
#

Quick question: are all inner products on a space isomorphic to $\mathbb{R}^n$ equivalent?

stoic pythonBOT
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Probably_Jason

fickle sable
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$n < \infty$

stoic pythonBOT
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Probably_Jason

fickle sable
#

lol, nevermind

wind pasture
#

let vectors u,v be a basis of R^2. If a linear transformation T: R^2 to R^3 sends both u and v to u, then T can NOT be onto.

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is this true?

brisk fractal
#

yes, a linear map is defined by its values on the basis of the domain

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so if T(u) = u, T(v) = u, then T maps R^2 to a one dimensional subspace of R^3

wind pasture
#

@brisk fractal sorry i meant R^2 to R^2

brisk fractal
#

same principle, it maps it to a one-dimensional subspace of R^2

#

so it's not surjective

wind pasture
#

thanks

sleek briar
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Can someoen plz help

#

I really didn't understand the question

#

There seems to be 2 matrices?
One whose eigenvectors form the second?

nocturne jewel
#

For part c, am I wrong in just finding a re-arrangement of the canonical basis to find C? Cause I get the identity matrix if I do that and transpose isnt identity

wintry steppe
#

well you just said it yourself that that's not right

#

check your calculations

nocturne jewel
#

Like am I suppose to link part 2 in somehow?

wintry steppe
#

you want to diagonalize the matrix

#

so your basis should be of linearly independent eigenvectors

nocturne jewel
#

from either eigenvalue?

#

like a basis of 4 eigenvectors from +1, 4 from -1, 2 from each?

#

Also it might mean triangular matrix.. given diagonal operators is next week

wintry steppe
#

you should probably be getting two eigenvectors from each eigenvalue in your basis. the space is 4-dimensional

#

i can think of two eigenvectors with eigenvalue 1 off the top of my head and im sure you found two for -1

nocturne jewel
#

Yeah for 1 i got all symmetric matrices in Q^2x2

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and anti-symmetric for -1

wintry steppe
#

sounds right

nocturne jewel
#

So I just pick 2 symmetric and 2 anti-symmetric so long as they're indep.?

#

then order them correctly

wintry steppe
#

the ordering won't matter

#

but yeah that sounds right

nocturne jewel
#

Ok

sour bramble
#

$L\left(A\right)\ =\ A^{T\ \ }from\ R^{\left(n\cdot n\right)\ }to\ R^{\left(n\cdot n\right)}$

stoic pythonBOT
#

TheRonaldReagan

sour bramble
#

How would you find the determinant of the linear transformation above? If you know, could you ping me?

nocturne jewel
wintry steppe
#

you're right, sorry

#

the space of skew symmetric matrices is 1 dimensional and symmetric matrices 3

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my bad

nocturne jewel
wintry steppe
#

anyways yeah pick out three linearly independent symmetric matrices and your favorite nonzero skew symmetric one and you have your diagonalizing basis

acoustic path
#

well if theyre noninvertible operators then they arent injective or surjective

#

but idk how to extend this to a subspace of L(V)

trim fractal
#

You have to take two of them and combine them linerly to find an invertible one

acoustic path
#

o

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to prove that its not closed under addition

trim fractal
#

Yep

#

You can take two projectors

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Two orthogonal projectors say

#

Ok i should let you do it ^^

acoustic path
#

lmao

#

ty

trim fractal
#

Np :)

lavish jewel
nocturne jewel
#

Subspace test is usually just:
0 is an element
linear combination of elements is an element

sour bramble
#

$L\left(A\right)\ =\ A^{T\ \ }from\ R^{\left(n\cdot n\right)\ }to\ R^{\left(n\cdot n\right)}$
How would you find the determinant of this linear transformation (ping me)?

stoic pythonBOT
#

TheRonaldReagan

nocturne jewel
#

so of cu+dv is an element c=d=0 implies 0 is an element

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right

#

so technically you dont need to prove 0 is an element

#

yeah

lavish jewel
#

doesn't it have to be non empty tho?

broken belfry
#

How would I start off and solve a first?

native rampart
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1x_1+2x_2=mx_1

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2x_1+4x_2=mx_2

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Where x=(x_1,x_2)

broken belfry
#

I was just kinda confused because it was Ax = mx

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so basically just x + 2y = mx1 and 2x + 4y = mx2

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would sastisfy a

#

?

native rampart
#

If you are going by that notation

broken belfry
#

oh okay

#

and then part b would it just be x + 2y = 0; and 2x + 4y = 0?

native rampart
#

For b,you just rearrange the equations you got in a)

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It will be (1-m)x+2y=0 and 2x+(4-m)y=0

broken belfry
#

how would you approch part c?

native rampart
#

You know
(2x+4y)-2(x+2y)=my-2mx

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Implying m(y-2x)=0

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Implying m=0 or y=2x ,now substitute back to get the solutions

broken belfry
#

oh okay

thorn robin
#

There will be a whole host of minor annoyances

  1. It is no longer true that a vector subspace is a vector space, unless you revise your definition of vector space as well. Assuming you do:
  2. What is the dimension of the empty set? Is it still true that the dimension of the direct sum of two vector spaces is the sum of the dimensions? The only reasonable way to do this would be to define the dimension of the empty set to be negative infinity
  3. Vector spaces are supposed to be the solution sets of systems of homogeneous linear equations. But every homogeneous system of linear equations has zero as a solution, so the empty set never occurs this way
  4. Linear maps are supposed to send 0 to 0. So you will have to revise this theorem to make some exceptions. The kernel of a linear map no longer makes sense in general, so you will have to make exceptions in definitions as well
#

Basically, it's inconvenient and unnatural lol

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Another one is that not every vector space has a basis now

lavish jewel
#

i guess it depends on whether empty sums and products count, bit it does say the operations are among elements of the set

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the empty set doesnt satisty the def because it has no elements

desert portal
#

<@&286206848099549185>

gray dust
#

@desert portal please wait 15min before pinging helpers

desert portal
#

sorry

lavish jewel
#

that's what i would say. since it explicitly says sums of elements in the set, it leaves out empty sums

#

that's kinda funny

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because an empty sum is usually defined as 0, by convention

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adding nothing at all should not affect the element it was added to

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so if your set is empty and the empty sum is defined as 0, then the empty set is not a subspace because the sum isn'T closed

#

kinda lol. i'm just waving my hands at this point, but eh

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maybe someone that actually knows math can comment more on it haha

#

there is of course no reason why it would have to be this particular definition of empty sum

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so yea

#

that's a new one

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proof by convention

thorn robin
#

for all u, v in V, u + v is in V
The empty set does satisfy this property, it's not a question of convention

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The empty sum you are referring to is a sum of zero terms, but the vector space axiom is a sum of two terms

lavish jewel
#

that's precisely what i meant

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the definition is over elements of the set

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i just added the empty sum for comic relief

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the empty set is always a subset of a set, that'S not quite right

#

that's what you gave as part of your definition of a subspace

#

the sum is closed

thorn robin
#

I was replying to the earlier conversation about "i guess this could all be circumvented if empty sums and products are not counted like edd said
"

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Maybe I need elaboration on this quote before I give an appropriate reply lol

lavish jewel
#

right, so what i meant is that the definition is explicitly taking about two elements u and v chosen from a set V

thorn robin
#

Were you guys talking about the closure under addition property?

lavish jewel
#

yeah

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the empty set has no elements u and v

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so it would be an empty sum

thorn robin
#

Yeah that is definitely satisfied by the empty set, and this has nothing to do with empty sums

lavish jewel
#

i mean, that operation is not defined

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it is accepted by convention that an empty sum yields the additive identitiy

#

if you go by that, sums of "nothing" are outside of the empty set

thorn robin
#

That is true but that convention is not relevant here

lavish jewel
#

and so the empty set is not closed under sum

thorn robin
#

Because the vector space axiom refers to sums of two vectors, not sums of zero vectors

lavish jewel
#

well, that's also what i meant when i said we aren't taking about empty sums because the definition mentions two elements explicitly 😛

thorn robin
#

The empty set satisfies closure under addition (of two terms) vacuously

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Right

#

Yeah I would assume that they meant to include the third axiom and forgot to write it

#

Oh I don't know, I guess that depends on how much you like the book, how invested you are in it, and how confident you are about being able to spot other potential issues

#

It's really up to you, and all books have some errors I guess

lavish jewel
#

i think it's ok

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these two things are anyway different

thorn robin
#

Fixing mistakes is just an exercise for the reader RooDevil

lavish jewel
#

we're comparing the binary sum operation with the trivial properties of the empty set

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the definition stated a binary sum

#

it's aight

#

just keep an eye out for inconsistencies, then

#

it would require taking a subset of 2 elements out of the empty set first

#

idk, $\emptyset \times \emptyset \to \emptyset$ does work

stoic pythonBOT
lavish jewel
#

but i guess any u and v are by definition not in the empty set?

#

i'll just go ahead and say i'm not a mathemagician, so feel free to disregard me and my lack of rigor haha

coarse rain
#

if you have a basis u1, ..., un of X and a basis v1, ..., vn of K^n, then you can map uk -> v_sigma(k) for any permutation sigma of (1, ..., n)

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and then it's still a isomorphism

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(also, idk if this counts, but can't you just scale the isomorphism to make another isomorphism?)

dire thunder
#

wym

#

no it won't

dire thunder
#

anyway for isomorphism apporach is nice

stoic pythonBOT
#

Commander Vimes

dire thunder
#

then iso is easy

#

ye, you just complete proof here

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ok scalar won't give you nonunique

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because if you map (x) to (x) then scalar maps (cx) to (cx) which is the same

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but it won't work then for n>1

coarse rain
#

I meant a scalar multiple of the linear transformation itself

lavish jewel
#

you can take arbitrary linear combinations of the basis as long as they (the combinations) are linearly independent

dire thunder
#

i am brainlet ll

graceful vortex
#

Fix an iso f:X -> K^n. Then f determines a bijection between GL(n,K)=Aut(K^n) and Iso(X, K^n) given by u |-> u•f

#

So GL(n,K) measures the degree of non-uniqueness

rocky wolf
#

u| is the ispmorphism between GL and Aut