it is m and n
#help-0
safe tartan
Oh
formal tide
so anybody gon help or waht
safe tartan
Can you rewrite the question
formal tide
im still confused
wet lark
give me a sec i was switching class
wet lark
$8m^2-200n^2$
ocean sealBOT
gekka
wet lark
so
formal tide
8
ocean sealBOT
gekka
wet lark
now do you notice anything we can do to continue to factor?
formal tide
square root?
wet lark
bingo
formal tide
neat
formal tide
so is that just
wet lark
how should we change that so it is correctly formatted before we can use difference of square
ocean sealBOT
gekka
wet lark
you're done factoring
formal tide
that all?
wet lark
mhm
formal tide
i see thank you
hearty lodge
close the channel @formal tide if ur done
empty dune
Open
empty dune
I have a question
How can I calculate, angle of depression?
Like if in a figure ABC the right Angeles at B
And C is the angle of elevation i.e. 30
And BC is 40m
I have to calculate AB
Without using angle of elevation as the Tan
<@&286206848099549185>
simple elbow
Using the tangent is the easiest way to do it, but if you do not want to use the tangent, you can calculate AC using the cosine, calculate AB with the sine, and do AB/BC, but that is functionally equivalent to using the tangent.
empty dune
Using the tangent is the easiest way to do it, but if you do not want to use the...
No the question specifically says use angle of depression to solve it
simple elbow
What is the angle of depression? So far as I am concerned, it's the congruent to the angle of elevation.
empty dune
What is the angle of depression? So far as I am concerned, it's the congruent to...
30 and c is the angle
Value of c is 30
simple elbow
Angles of elevation and depression are congruent, so their measure will be the same.
simple elbow
wtf
simple elbow
Without using the angle, you wouldn't have enough data.
nocturne iris
Heelo, i have a question: if f and g are bounded and continuous on I=[a, b]; does that imply that $$ \int_{a}^{b} f(x) \cdot g(x) , dx $$is bounded too?
ocean sealBOT
lilisworld
nocturne iris
.close
leaden geode
I don't understand the use of perpendicular heights when finding areas of triangles.
leaden geode
From my understanding, the theory is that finding the perpendicular height would allow us to find the area of this triangle using the simple 1/2bh.
median oar
solid line is the height
median oar
From my understanding, the theory is that finding the perpendicular height woul...
and this is correct
leaden geode
That would mean that: Rotating the vertex to the top, such that the top vertex is within the same vertical line would preserve the area.
Brb.
median oar
rotating a triangle does not change its area
so of course!
but we need the height line to be perpendicular to the base
if we rotate the triangle, the base will rotate as well
so a vertical line will no longer be perpendicular to the base
hence why i have extended the base to the right
leaden geode
solid line is the height
I see how this shape is the height, but I would think that this is not the "altitude" or the perpendicular height.
median oar
why not
leaden geode
I would imagine that I have to change the edges of the shape, change their lengths such that its perpendicular
leaden geode
ok are u familiar with the area of a parallelogram?
Funnily, I feel like I don't truly understand it because I don't truly understand the area of a triangle
quiet vector
u under stand the area of a right triangle?
quiet vector
ok take a parallelogram
i give up i cant draw
any parallelogram u take has the same area as the corresponding rectangle by the above construction
leaden geode
yes
quiet vector
now take any non right triangle and turn it into a parallelogram
that should double its area
u can find the area of the parallelogram from the above rectangle lodic
logic
now the rectangle can be divided into two right triangles
with the same base
and the "perpendicular height" the last guy showed us
leaden geode
I'm having a mental block for some reason.
leaden geode
now take any non right triangle and turn it into a parallelogram
This doesn't seem to double the rea for me
quiet vector
ok the vertex at the end of the arrow is a
the common point with the parallelogram is b
and we have triangle abc
leaden geode
Alright
quiet vector
turn it into abcd
leaden geode
Alright
quiet vector
so re read that thing above and see if u agree
leaden geode
Okay
leaden geode
so re read that thing above and see if u agree
I understand now.
Looks nice.
@quiet vector @median oar Well, thank you both.
.close
lapis eagle
This is the question I have.
Basically, I have no clue about what a sequence of countable sets is? I understand how to prove that F is right continuous but need help with sequence of countable sets
mortal trellis
not really sure what they mean with the hint. countable sequence of sets would make more sense. but well, all sequences are countable
lapis eagle
but what does that even mean
like what is a sequence countable set
my approach so far defining a 'sequence' called A_n, of (-inf, x + 1/n]
and then I show that every value of n is a subset of A_1
so it is a decreasing sequence?
lapis eagle
but by showing that, how do I proceed to show F is right continuous
mortal trellis
you should have some axiom about how the probability behaves for monotone sequences of sets $A_1 \supseteq A_2 \supseteq A_3 \cdots$
ocean sealBOT
Denascite
lapis eagle
i dont think I have anything like that
is there some property for decreasing sequence of sets?
like my references that i have contain nothing about taht
mortal trellis
the probability of their intersection is exactly what you expect, the limit of their individual probabilities
what theorems do you have about P
you have to know something about it
mortal trellis
P is a measure
lapis eagle
i just found out about this on the internet
property of continuity of probability measures for decreasing sequences
mortal trellis
you should have stuff on measures
otherwise I dont see why you would have that curly A there
lapis eagle
what does that curly A signify?
lapis eagle
the course I was forced to take is an advanced course where the prof never bothered going through the basics
so I have no clue about some of these basic things, like the omega sign, or that curly a
lapis eagle
you should have stuff on measures
it is under the topic of Probability Measures on R
mortal trellis
well I guess then you're fucked. you need to know stuff on measure theory for probability
lapis eagle
shit
mortal trellis
in some sense, probability theory is "applied measure theory"
lapis eagle
property of continuity of probability measures for decreasing sequences
is this something you've heard of?
in order to use limits on the sequence to make n reach inf
mortal trellis
your second sentence is pretty nonsensical
lapis eagle
okay so what I meant was
to be able to make lim (n -> inf) P(A_n) = P (lim n -> inf A_n)
because for A_n, where n tends to inf, is simply (-inf, x) as 1/n will be zero
mortal trellis
yes thats true for monotone sequences of sets
lapis eagle
then it becomes F(x)
lapis eagle
yes thats true for monotone sequences of sets
does that mean I have no reason to show A_1 ⊇ A_2 ⊇ A_3 ⊇ ... ?
mortal trellis
important
mortal trellis
A_1 supset A_2 etc is trivial
lapis eagle
why is that super important?
mortal trellis
well cause otherwise its false?
lapis eagle
No, I mean, like why is that necessary in this scenario? Where we don't even need them to be subsets of each other
mortal trellis
for continuity stuff its always important whether you have closed or open sets, whether limit points are in your sets and stuff
lapis eagle
oh is A_1 ⊇ A_2 ⊇ A_3 ⊇ ... a requirement for it to be a sequence?
mortal trellis
we need them to be subsets of each other
mortal trellis
my approach so far defining a 'sequence' called A_n, of (-inf, x + 1/n]
but the way you defined them that is trivial
ok technically you would have to do it for all decreasing sequences x_n->x and have A_n = (-inf, x_n]
but same thing
lapis eagle
we need them to be subsets of each other
why though?
or is that what you just explained
mortal trellis
to be able to make lim (n -> inf) P(A_n) = P (lim n -> inf A_n)
otherwise this is false
what should lim A_n even mean
lapis eagle
oh so it has to be a subset of each other for me to be able to apply the continuity theorem to it?
like for all n?
mortal trellis
to apply a theorem you have to satisfy the conditions, yes
lapis eagle
i had no idea that was the condition
okay that makes a lot more sense
i think i sort of got the solution then
just wanted to understand what exactly that sequence of countable sets even meant
thanks a lot
wait just to clarify
sequence of countable sets can be anything right?
mortal trellis
I still think that they mean something else from what they actually wrote
a sequence of countable sets would literally be just what it says, a sequence A_n where each A_n is a countable set
lapis eagle
so the way I'm doing it is ignoring the hint?
mortal trellis
which would be nonsense in all kinds of analysis context because you want uncountability
lapis eagle
a sequence of countable sets would literally be just what it says, a sequence A_...
oh so that is what I did
lapis eagle
i also had this question, (-inf, x] is a set?
mortal trellis
oh so that is what I did
no, none of your sets are countable
lapis eagle
because from the stuff I've learned, it is a range right?
lapis eagle
no, none of your sets are countable
oh what
mortal trellis
i also had this question, (-inf, x] is a set?
uhm ok now I really have to ask. what is your background
lapis eagle
hmm, how do I explain this, I've done the very basics
like I know what a set is, and stuff
nothing at this level though
mortal trellis
oh what
this shouldnt be a surprise? do you know what countable and uncountable means?
mortal trellis
because from the stuff I've learned, it is a range right?
ranges, or the better word would be intervals, are sets. just special types of sets
ocean sealBOT
marc
lapis eagle
uh, so countable sets are also infinite then right?
lapis eagle
or actually, a subset of infinite set
mortal trellis
everything is a subset of an infinite set
ocean sealBOT
marc
lapis eagle
oh
okay that is interesting
then uncountable would simply mean sets that have duplicate values?
as in they are not bijective?
mortal trellis
no
eg the set of real numbers is uncountable
there are literally more real numbers than natural numbers
even tho both are infinitely many
lapis eagle
oh so simply non-natural numbers are uncountable?
they are all related to only natural number sets
mortal trellis
related is a very general word
literally by definition countable sets are in bijection with (a subset of ) N, yes
but is that what you mean?
lapis eagle
yeah
mortal trellis
eg the rationals are also countable
lapis eagle
wait but how
how are set of rational numbers countable?
aren't there more rational numbers than natural numbers?
mortal trellis
and?
lapis eagle
so it can't be bijective
mortal trellis
do you know what a bijection is?
lapis eagle
one to one and onto?
mortal trellis
nothing says that the inputs have to stay the same "type"
lapis eagle
then how are real numbers not countable?
mortal trellis
cantors diagonal argument
lapis eagle
what is the main reason for that?
mortal trellis
digits can go on forever -> lots of numbers
I dont understand how you can land in such a course without knowing these basics. what is going wrong in your university
lapis eagle
i have no idea, it is messed up
my classmates just find the answers online and write homeworks to get a minimum passing grade, but i want to understand all these concepts from the ground up
mortal trellis
you are missing too many basics for that. probably wont work
lapis eagle
damn rip
yeah probably makes sense to just get done with this class somehow then, but worst part is it's a two part course, so i have the continuation next sem
it's called foundation of stats
for some reason my major is forced to take this course
yeah
anaylsis?
mortal trellis
good that answers that
lapis eagle
damn
mortal trellis
calculus but rigorous
lapis eagle
calculus but rigorous
I did, but it never delved into measure theory
it never had any prerequisites, and it was a requirement, so I had no choice
mortal trellis
what kind of shitty analysis course was that that you dont even know about uncountability
lapis eagle
no idea
nope
tbf, this isn't even a course for my major
but for some reason it is listed as required
i study computer science
but it is clearly a math course
it's a uni in japan
second year
nope, that's too risky for me
I can pass this course guaranteed, but with good grades is probably impossible
mortal trellis
then just go for that
lapis eagle
Yeah, if i do these assignments, should be able to pass
mortal trellis
what kind of course is this that you can pass it without understanding shit lol
lapis eagle
all thanks to the internet
it is, but it will affect my gpa negatively
they're about 30%, so significant
Yeah, none that were required at least
I'm banking on partial marks and curved grades
since almost everyone is as clueless as I am
hmm
well, then i gotta try hard
got no other choice
on the basics of measure theory, that would be helpful
like all these notations like sigma algebra and stuff, I have no idea
that bad?
damn
how did my seniors even do this
we weren't asked to take any analysis related classes
yeah but it's the middle of a sem, I got no choice for now
anyways, thank you two for the help for now, I gotta try and finish this
thanks a lot!
yeah hopefully
lone heartBOT
@lapis eagle Has your question been resolved?
lone heartBOT
As a helper, please do not give out answers that could be copied as a homework solution. Have the student work through the problem themselves and guide them along the way.
carmine reef
That's not even in terms of a
Or p=4.414 ok
I don't think so
Or hmm
,w 4/(2+sqrt(2))
ocean sealBOT
carmine reef
Doesn't seem right
Your answer
Did you break down the shape into simpler ones
square and 4 triangles?
did u get side length of the square
no, where did you get 45 from?
not a side length though
and idk why you would square it to get another side length
,w 2+sqrt(2)+2/(2+sqrt(2))
ocean sealBOT
carmine reef
should be p
Not sure why you want to know tho
U should probably read the problem
I already gave you the answer
p is 4
more or less
the answer is the area formula with 4 for p
They are probably wrong then
What did they say
4(2+√2)a²
lone heartBOT
@alpine sable Has your question been resolved?
tacit dome
lone heartBOT
tacit dome
How can we prove that those triangles, aren't congruent triangles?
royal socket
the angles are different
tacit dome
and prove that this is fallacy
tacit dome
the angles are different
Beta is same
royal socket
The others aren't
royal socket
it's not y - it's gamma
royal socket
alpha is clearly different
lone heartBOT
@timid galleon Has your question been resolved?
flint dust
lone heartBOT
flint dust
Using lagrange multipliers, i set f(x,y) = (x-1)^2 + (y-2)^2
and g(x,y) = x^2 -2xy +y^2 -x+y, as the constraint
final condition is that g(x,y) = 0
I set the first two equations as: ∇f(x,y) = λ * ∇g(x,y) and the last is g(x,y) = 0
Then, i find x,y by solving the system of equations, right?
(z is clearly = -3 since no restrictions are taken into account for it)
Is this procedure correct?
lone heartBOT
@flint dust Has your question been resolved?
proper heart
if i would write a small example what should i do
lone heartBOT
if i would write a small example what should i do
placid zinc
Did you have an example?
proper heart
nvm forget that
would i need to know the pytagoras when a triangle is that and that if its 3d shapes or
tacit arch
would i need to know the pytagoras when a triangle is that and that if its 3d sh...
Pythagorean triples refer to right triangles
proper heart
Pythagorean triples refer to right triangles
i meant the one where we get to know hypotenus and one katet but not other k
tacit arch
What's a katet
proper heart
the 2 short ones instead of lo
ng ones
wait
so volume is like x
you have to find out what the x is
algebra or some shit
uhh pls help
just want to know if im right or not
<@&286206848099549185> sorry for the ping just getting anxious
another question is do i need the 30 60 90 pytagoras for geometry
focusing on 3d geometry
uncut gale
how are you doing 3d geo without knowing 30-60-90
proper heart
how are you doing 3d geo without knowing 30-60-90
i meant if i need it
uncut gale
yes
proper heart
ok
proper heart
yes
then the other is volume like algebra
where it is unknown
and i have to find out
uncut gale
sry gtg
proper heart
ok
quaint urchin
Can u explain ur question? Im confused as to what exactly you’re asking @proper heart
proper heart
Can u explain ur question? Im confused as to what exactly you’re asking <@651433...
so formulas with volume isnt that like algebra
find out what v is
v is unknown
quaint urchin
What are you trying to find the volume of?
proper heart
What are you trying to find the volume of?
nothing
im just wondering if volume is like that
well i got a test tmrw wish me lucj
luck
.close
lone heartBOT
lone heartBOT
Available help channel!
silver portal
lone heartBOT
silver portal
Can someone help understand what i gotta do for this assignment
Cause i dont get it
neon scarab
!status
lone heartBOT
What step are you on?
1. I don't know where to begin
2. I have begun but got stuck midway
3. I got an answer but I'm told it's wrong
4. I got an answer and would like my work checked
5. I have a question about someone else's worked solution
6. None of the above
Probably in desmos, try to draw a picture just by graphing curves
carmine reef
They want you to sketch on the paper what you want your graph to look like at the end
silver portal
Can the picture be anything
carmine reef
Seems like it yeah
carmine reef
draw on the page
silver portal
Does it matter how big i draw it
carmine reef
making sure it's something you can make out of curves later
silver portal
Or small
carmine reef
just make it out of curves that you can later recreate in desmos
silver portal
Wdym by curves
carmine reef
shapes that you get when you plot an equation on a graph
bendy lines
or straight lines
carmine reef
Yeah
silver portal
how the hell am i supposed to draw that tiger like that
carmine reef
outline, eyes, curves for the fingers
silver portal
Do i got to include the lines of the graph too or do i just draw it plain
carmine reef
plain should be fine
silver portal
So what about the actual pic of the tiger is that the one ill use on desmos
carmine reef
you'll import it into desmos and then make curves that trace it
but yeah the real pic
sketch doesn't need to exactly match your plans
shouldn't be worth too much effort on its own
silver portal
Can i dm u when i finish drawing it
Also btw how do i get a level 4
For the marking criteria
carmine reef
just @ me, I have DMs closed
idk level 4 any better than you do
It seems strange to do all the things in level 3 and get a 75%
silver portal
My teacher is a tight ass
carmine reef
ye seems like it
silver portal
10% for this shit is crazy
lone heartBOT
@silver portal Has your question been resolved?
nocturne iris
lone heartBOT
nocturne iris
show that this is an isomorphism
so it's injective
how do i show that it's also surjective?
median oar
never done a question like this before but can't you show the bottom right forms a basis of R^3?
marsh rapids
An injective endomorphism is bijective. Probably a known result
nocturne iris
An injective endomorphism is bijective. Probably a known result
ok so i dont need anything else
marsh rapids
Depends on whether you saw that result yet
Otherwise surjectivity basically amounts to finding f^-1
neat sierra
lone heartBOT
<#903481102591750184>
neat sierra
Sorry this is a question that I asked earlier in #help-21｜아리스킨충1
I think I figured my mistake.
The question was asking specifically along the paths (x,y) -> (1,1)
So I shouldnt have tested along the path (x,y) = (t,0) in my initial post, since that would be testing in an entirely different path than what was asked.
Would that be correct?
placid zinc
You do need to pick a path that goes through (1,1) yes
neon scarab
So I shouldnt have tested along the path (x,y) = (t,0) in my initial post, sinc...
Haaaa i didn’t see that too. 😂
neat sierra
lmaio
cant believe spent 40 min on that
well, better now then on a test lol
.close
lone heartBOT
lone heartBOT
Available help channel!
dire gale
In the following graph, if the frequency of the fifth class is 36 then the sample size ...
dire gale
Is it possible to determine the sample size?
lone heartBOT
@dire gale Has your question been resolved?
dire gale
.close
sterile bramble
lone heartBOT
sterile bramble
for this system of equations
when solving for x2 how did this person simplify it to that
when I simplify it I get (-i-2)/2
lone heartBOT
@sterile bramble Has your question been resolved?
tacit arch
when I simplify it I get (-i-2)/2
Show your work
native temple
Yet converting quadratic equations to standard form and coverting all conics to standard form are consider “completing the square” despite FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT STEPS WHY?!
gray isle
wdym by fundamentally different
native temple
With quadratic equations you have to divide by a then add b^2
Depending on how you define b this may be instead (1/2 b)^2
However when converting to vertex form you must factor out a and you don’t divide by a.
This step is fundamentally difficult yet it’s still called completing the square as if that makes it clear what to do and for conics it’s even worse
Not only must you factor out a and not divide, but after adding b^2 and factoring to a square you must divide the constant at the end
These are fundamentally different steps
Yet it’s so “clear” by just saying oh complete the square here
gray isle
the steps are more or less the same
native temple
No they are not
gray isle
it's all still completing the square
gray isle
there are slight differences but it's all still completing the square
native temple
Is there some intuition assumed in textbooks? What is going on here?!
gray isle
you issue seems to be if the leading coefficient isn't 1
native temple
Which is usually isn’t
gray isle
factoring out the leading coefficient makes completing the square easier
what you're allowed to do when have an equation or an expression is slightly different
native temple
Conics aren’t expressions
tacit arch
Conics aren’t expressions
equation OR an expression
native temple
Also again converting to standard form involves different steps then solving a quadratic equation yet it’s still called completing the square
Why?
Did my textbook expect you to know what that was before they taught it to you?
It’s openstax btw
tacit arch
Nobody knows what the author expects you to know besides the author
gray isle
do you know what completing the square means?
native temple
If so should I have just looked this somewhere else?
tacit arch
Go ask the author
native temple
do you know what completing the square means?
Make a equation a perfect sqaure.
Thru a specific set of steps
Yet they seem to vary a lot
tacit arch
Yes in math if you come across something you haven't heard in a book and the book doesn't explain it, you should find other resources to learn it
gray isle
equations aren't perfect squares
native temple
You need to make it that way no?
gray isle
completing the square by itself refers the introduction of a component to turn something into a perfect square (and balancing your equation/expression to have something equivalent to what you started with)
completing the square by itself doesn't solve a quadratic equation
gray isle
e.g if you wanted to solve a quadratic equation by "completing the square"
x^2 + 2x = 8
completing the square only refers doing
x^2 + 2x +1 = 8 + 1
(x+1)^2 + 9
native temple
Math class gives showing examples on how to solve a specific problem then saying solve the same type
Without giving steps to solve that kind of problem
Only showing examples of the type of problem
tacit arch
Math class gives showing examples on how to solve a specific problem then saying...
Complain to your school, not here
native temple
I’m thinking this will keep happening have you experienced this in your class or books in college?
gray isle
$\advcts$
ocean sealBOT
ℝamonov
gray isle
they usually give you the theory and explain the steps
if you don't understand the steps ask your teacher immediately
gusty gorge
Without giving steps to solve that kind of problem
I mean I think a large part of math is being able to figure out the steps from the theory + some examples to clarify the explanation of the theory
it's just assumed at some point that you can translate it to a set of steps
native temple
What point?
native temple
it's just assumed at some point that you can translate it to a set of steps
How is that skill learnt whatever it is I almost completely lack it
I'm at my final year of high school....
gusty gorge
What point?
I'd say probably early undergraduate math classes
I guess one major issue some people have when they go into introductory undergraduate classes is that they assume that learning math is memorizing various sequences of steps to solve problems
native temple
I'd say probably early undergraduate math classes
Well I don't have the skill
gusty gorge
but most math classes are about really summarizing the earlier work + insights of mathematicians and giving you material and intuition with which you can do your own proofs or solve your own problems
native temple
I can not even solve problems not taught how to solve by any of the resources given to me....
Unless I find how to solve in in another resource
so if all of that is already assumed I'm screwed......
gusty gorge
Is that true for all of the math you've learnt?
Or is it only down to a certain point?
native temple
Essentially all math
I started studying mid junior or softmore year before I didn't....
I can't remember
In any case I wasn't able to infer things not even in the lessons in math
and got mad about it...every single high school year this year no exception
My dad(A school teacher) says that this tests students who are able to solve problems
gusty gorge
so if I ask you something like: a TV in a store costs $1024. On Friday, the store reduces the price by 20% of the original price. On Saturday, the store reduces the price of the TV by 15% of the price on Friday. What is the price of the TV now?
native temple
and someone on discord said that oh and my bad this is how college works
gusty gorge
can you answer something like that, ignoring most of the high school math?
gusty gorge
I don't really care too much about the numbers
that's not really how you communicate to anyone, except maybe a calculator a computer
native temple
numbers are truth
gusty gorge
Can you tell me, at a really high level, what things you would calculate and what they mean?
gusty gorge
and the answer doesn't really matter unless you can explain how you got there
Do you possibly see why you struggle so much?
gusty gorge
Your answer also appears to be wrong, but that's a different story
native temple
(1024 - (1024*.2)) - ((1024 - (1024*.2)) * .15)
gusty gorge
really?
native temple
Yea
gusty gorge
well, if you believe that, then no wonder why you struggle
native temple
They asked a problem I gave an answer
gusty gorge
Math is about using logic to make factual statements from what you know, and hopefully making the problem more understandable
A lot of math work goes into making formerly complicated results more intuitive
So if you think math is about banging out something to jam into a calculator, no wonder you struggle
native temple
math is about following what's taught
gusty gorge
Why do you believe that?
native temple
After all I can't even participate in discussions on here
Without hearing about calulus
So oly studying orks
Sigh I should use the internet more not just use a textbook
as just using a textbook doesn't seem to be enough
the free one
gusty gorge
Have you considered that maybe you find it really hard to understand anything
native temple
Maybe if I paid money.....
gusty gorge
because you simply attempt to memorize + regurgitate things
A very large part of math is being able to relate things to each other and make connections between different parts of your knowledge
and it doesn't seem like you're doing any of that
native temple
WHO TELLLS YHOU THIS?!?!!!!?!?!??!?!!?!??!?!?!??!!
gusty gorge
I gave you a problem about a store and a TV and Friday and Saturday so you could hopefully relate it in a sense to some everyday experiences
gusty gorge
and those everyday experiences might guide you toward making a structured solution
Is (1024 - (1024.2)) - ((1024 - (1024.2)) * .15) really how you're going to explain that problem to someone else?
native temple
Yes
gusty gorge
Well, that's a massive problem
native temple
Unambigiously bluntly yes
gusty gorge
That's probably a big reason why you struggle
Because I bet that's also how you explain it to yourself
And you truly believe that if someone finds that confusing, that they're just bad at math?
native temple
Yes suck at math should study for 3 hours...which is what I need to do
I and would say you're horrible at math and need to study for 3 hours at their face
because it's the truth and you don't sugarcoat
gusty gorge
Tell me, do you see any words in your "explanation" of the problem?
gusty gorge
So clearly the mathematicians who write math textbooks must be idiots
native temple
Now you didn't say explain in words
gusty gorge
because their textbooks are full of words
gusty gorge
So why do mathematicians write so many words in their math textbooks?
gusty gorge
Would you think that maybe explaining things with words sometimes makes it clearer?
easier to understand?
gusty gorge
And yet the people who are good at explaining math with words and who practice explaining it with words and logic and intuition seem to do better at math than you
Maybe the human brain is just better at solving problems that way
native temple
THey got degrees
gusty gorge
Maybe if you practiced taking a problem and explaining its parts and logical connections to yourself in words, you'd do better at solving problems
native temple
What?
How is this relevant from opextext textbooks not explaining what complete the square means
gusty gorge
Because certainly writing a bunch of jumbled symbols on paper is not how the VAST majority of people solve math problems effectively
native temple
When they expect me to know it with conics and everything else?
gusty gorge
How is this relevant from opextext textbooks not explaining what complete the sq...
So you're going to blame the textbook authors? lol
Maybe they assumed that you already know what it is
If you're covering conic sections, then you definitely should know what it is
native temple
No they taught it earlier but as I just mentioned the steps are different
So it's not the same
gusty gorge
Maybe they're not really, and you just can't see the connection
Maybe it's almost the same technique, but since you're so concerned with the symbols or the exact steps that were regurgitated
you can't draw the connection and understand it
native temple
Maybe it's almost the same technique, but since you're so concerned with the sym...
ALMOST not the same
so why call it the same
They gave examples but the steps that could be drawn aren't the same
yet by magic you expected to know
gusty gorge
Well, for example, addition mod 2 and the XOR operation are different in name but pretty much the same
gusty gorge
yet by magic you expected to know
not magic, but actually understanding what was going on
certainly would feel magical if you're just throwing out a jumble of symbols
native temple
Well, for example, addition mod 2 and the XOR operation are different in name bu...
Idk what xor is I forgot.
gusty gorge
exclusive or
native temple
What does that mean?
lament forge
are these two pieces of text the same?
native temple
or means eitehr a or b
native temple
are these two pieces of text the same?
yes.
gusty gorge
or means eitehr a or b
xor is either a or b, but not both
lament forge
yes.
the bottom one is clearly in a different font though, why are you saying it's the same
native temple
the bottom one is clearly in a different font though, why are you saying it's th...
It's the same word.
It uses the same alphabet the latin alphabet
Oh
I didn't notice the font
native temple
are these two pieces of text the same?
Same in which ways?
The word is the same the letters are slightely different.
gusty gorge
Do you honestly think that people who need words and examples to understand math suck at it?
lament forge
...i've done maths that doesn't involve numbers or symbols at all
native temple
math is quantities
native temple
math is the study of quantities
lament forge
no it isn't
gusty gorge
LOL no it's not
royal socket
are u even trying to get help rn or are you just hating on maths
tacit arch
guess we all suck at math then
native temple
Sigh why is Im you crazy?
tacit arch
are u even trying to get help rn or are you just hating on maths
Indeed
royal socket
I got called crazy 
lament forge
maths is more like the study of deduction, or the study of abstract objects, or something like that
gusty gorge
You seem to believe really surely some pretty ridiculous things in math, despite not having actually studied a lot of it
I'd suggest softening those beliefs, opening your mind a little
and not being so contemptuous of things like words in math
royal socket
wait until he sees full sentences in maths 
lament forge
maths is more like the study of deduction, or the study of abstract objects, or ...
quantities are one of several types of thing you can do formal deductive reasoning about
but you could also study something like this game
and ask who wins with optimal play and how
native temple
You seem to believe really surely some pretty ridiculous things in math, despite...
I'm confused?
What is even my problem?
I said I don't get implicit intructions
Like giving examples and deriving a bunch of steps
gusty gorge
No, you don't get much more than that
royal socket
What is even my problem?
Please continue asking urself this
native temple
or being required to solve things that weren't taught in the lesson or resources
gusty gorge
You probably don't understand the intrinsic motivation or why we do anything
gusty gorge
The reason why you're asked to solve things that aren't taught in the lesson is to develop the mathematical skills to apply the stuff they're teaching to new problems
native temple
I seemed to have angered someone.
native temple
The reason why you're asked to solve things that aren't taught in the lesson is ...
I usually freak out even after successfully solving the problem.
gusty gorge
You're really no better than an ATMega328 microcontroller if all you can do is execute instructions as given
native temple
I stopped freaking out
recently
and instead decided to find other resources since school refuses to give me enough.....
Until I fail
which is for devolping the curiosity to see other resouces
gusty gorge
Maybe you should look first toward yourself and whether your study habits are actually productive
Because the explanation you gave me about that TV sale was atrocious
Like it's really not hard to see why it would be a struggle for you to apply knowledge if that's how you internalize it
native temple
Because the explanation you gave me about that TV sale was *atrocious*
Huh?
What was wrong with it?
Can you explain?
Did I not sovle the problem right?
gusty gorge
You didn't give any justification for why it made any sense or how it related to the problem given.
You just gave something to bang into a calculator
native temple
You didn't give any justification for why it made any sense or how it related to...
Isn't it obvious .15 is 15%?
gusty gorge
A pretty good litmus test for whether your explanation is worth anything is whether someone can check that it's correct without doing the problem themselves
That was definitely not true in your case
royal socket
Can you explain?
p∧¬p
lament forge
...what
native temple
What problem does that solve?
gusty gorge
What problem does that solve?
Your name is Nerdy_Coder, so I assume you've done coding before?
native temple
yea
I know mathmaticians code apperently coding skills in science are as neccesary as math ones
gusty gorge
So do you think that people who can't write code in LLVM IR or x86-64 microcode are just shit at programming?
gusty gorge
That code isn't practical today
what do you mean by practical?
Why do you think high level programming languages exist?
native temple
To be more human usable?
Again why is this relevant to why I couldn't understand a free textbook?
and some lessons in school?
also have trouble without being taught solving problems not taught in the resources
idk what skills do they expect to magically build, but it must be research....
gusty gorge
Because, to put it in analogy, you're memorizing a computer program's LLVM IR or assembly code
native temple
No the book's teaching me python
gusty gorge
and then asking why it's hard to write a similar program that's slightly different, but reuses a lot of the same part
native temple
It teaches everyone python
native temple
I'm using an analogy
In the analogy it would be python
gusty gorge
no, it wouldn't
native temple
and then asking why it's hard to write a similar program that's slightly differe...
The call it the same function though
gusty gorge
can you stop arguing and listen
gusty gorge
do you know what an analogy is
gusty gorge
okay then stop arguing and listen
If I took your way of studying math into studying programming, it would literally be learning C++ by taking the LLVM IR that Clang generates and memorizing it. For example, I might memorize how to write a Hello, World! program in LLVM IR
And then I'd wonder why I can't keep up with the rest of my programming class when they're printing Hello, World twice or making it configurable.
It's a dumb way to study.
You might not agree, but I'm convinced it's a pretty good analogy for how you're studying math
Just spitting out the symbols to stuff into a calculator
Just like how I'm studying programming by memorizing the stuff the compiler spits out to the computer
native temple
I try to understand what's going on as well
royal socket
how did you even learn how do to 4817+3726 with pen and paper then surely you didn't memorise an infinite number of additions
gusty gorge
(1024 - (1024*.2)) - ((1024 - (1024*.2)) * .15)
your explanation here is exactly like the crap you'd feed to a computer
gusty gorge
That is not an explanation
native temple
define explaination?
gusty gorge
Does your jumble of symbols make something clear?
Does it give any reason or justification for why it gives the right answer?
gusty gorge
No it doesn't.
native temple
It's the the distributive property
gusty gorge
didn't see "distributive property" written anywhere in there
gusty gorge
That's like saying writing 696.32 "shows you how to solve it"
gusty gorge
This is it a(b + c) = ab + ac
you didn't write that in your "explanation"
look
you're free to argue it as much as you want
but the bottom line is you're the one stuck in a rut when it comes to understanding math
gusty gorge
Yes WORDS
royal socket
WORDSSS
gusty gorge
talk about things with words
royal socket
I mean you don't seem to hate using words after arguing with words
gusty gorge
What, you think I walk up to people and just say 96 10 28 291 839 8 199 -2 to carry a conversation?
native temple
you didn't write that in your "explanation"
So what's the point of symbols?
native temple
What, you think I walk up to people and just say 96 10 28 291 839 8 199 -2 to ca...
You say that mid conversation to solve a problem obviously.
Not carry
gusty gorge
So what's the point of symbols?
The point of symbols is to avoid repeating things that are abundantly clear to both sides and to precisely state things
native temple
The point of symbols is to avoid repeating things that are abundantly clear to b...
When classes give problems not taught in the lesson or explain things via examples and don't give the steps and i'm compltely lost what do I do?
gusty gorge
When classes give problems not taught in the lesson or explain things via exampl...
This is likely your fault
This is probably because you don't have the mathematical background or skillset to understand it.
And I'm usually quite reluctant to say something like that, because honestly, some things are terribly explained
native temple
This is probably because you don't have the mathematical background or skillset ...
Background?
Sigh I see my previous laziness cost me study time.....I guess
gusty gorge
But from how you've described everything, it really seems like you legitimately simply do not understand the things in any way more than just memorizing a bunch of steps
Like you're probably completely out of your depth with respect to the prerequisites too
lament forge
So what's the point of symbols?
symbols are just abbreviations
you could write a(b+c) = ab + ac as "the product of a and the sum of b and c is equal to the sum of the product of a and b and the product of b and c", but that's longer and harder to read
similarly "696.32" is a lot quicker than "six hundred and ninety six and thirty two hundredths"
reasoning with symbols and reasoning with words is equivalent, it's entirely about which one is easier
native temple
Like you're probably completely out of your depth with respect to the prerequisi...
algebra 2 and 1?
You sure I passed those classes with 80
gusty gorge
I know probably at least 50 people who passed those classes and know absolutely nothing
I know probably 20 people who got straight As in math in high school and know close to nothing
Probably a decent first step to fixing this quandary in which you've landed yourself is to go back a few months or years in math, and take the time to internalize and figure out why everything works and why it's done that way
You could even try to explain it to ChatGPT and ask it if it's a clear explanation or not
native temple
Probably a decent first step to fixing this quandary in which you've landed your...
I don't understand
What do I need to know?
You seem to be implying something absolutely no clue what
wary stream
What do I need to know?
go back a few months or years in math, and take the time to internalize and figure out why everything works and why it's done that way
royal socket
You need to understand and learn how to explain why things in maths are they are, instead of just blindly memorizing how the symbols move
royal socket
This is it a(b + c) = ab + ac
It's like when you said this
a(b+c) = ab + ac
but why?
native temple
Probably a decent first step to fixing this quandary in which you've landed your...
Start in algebra?
native temple
a(b+c) = ab + ac
No idea they didn't say
royal socket
No idea they didn't say
That's what you have to learn
gusty gorge
but why?
I think that's probably an axiom, depending on how you define the numbers lol
royal socket
There's still words for it though
As in, it's because multiplication is distributive over addition
royal socket
I think that's probably an axiom, depending on how you define the numbers lol
a bit too early to explain fields to him 😬
native temple
What?
native temple
I think that's probably an axiom, depending on how you define the numbers lol
Do I need to relearn arithmetic?
I'm confused here
just go thru a algebra 1 textbook?
Man everyone has intution I don't and they assume it of me
wary stream
People aren't saying to relearn arithmetic through rereading an algebra book. They are saying, going back and understand how and why the math works. " internalize and figure out why everything works and why it's done that way"
go back a few months or years in math, and take the time to internalize and figure out why everything works and why it's done that way
wary stream
And that's what people are saying. You just trying to pass makes you lazy the understanding of how and why the math works
native temple
Isn't the problem that I can't understand problems outside of what they taughta
and struggle to derive steps from examples?
Yet they say I can't do algebra I'm confused
Does openstax textbooks explain my problems?
native temple
And that's what people are saying. You just trying to pass makes you lazy the un...
Excuse me what how do you find steps from examples?
Or define terms when they aren't defined
gusty gorge
Excuse me what how do you find steps from examples?
The examples demonstrate the techniques + insights they're trying to teach
native temple
but rather defined for specific things
gusty gorge
and you're supposed to apply them to novel problems
native temple
like the whole "COMPLETing the square" weirdness
wary stream
Excuse me what how do you find steps from examples?
A good amount of text books will provide examples with and explantion of how it was done
native temple
and you're supposed to apply them to novel problems
Problems not taught how to solve in the book?
gusty gorge
yes
if you have to be taught how to solve every math problem in your life, then you're no better than a computer
that's what programming a computer is
and computers are getting better at not being taught every thing
native temple
if you have to be taught how to solve every math problem in your life, then you'...
No you're much worse as computers are experts at computation
They can compute millions of computation per second while humands cna compute hundreds with years of practice
native temple
yes
What are implicit instructions being asked of you?
Things where they give you a set of steps but imply one
I'm confused
I seem to not be able to figure out stuff
without going to another book
Struggling at conics homework right now....
gusty gorge
no you're not
I would even probably venture to say that there are algebra 1 problems in some algebra 1 textbook that you cannot solve
native temple
no you're not
Then how can I avoid failing?
This is my final year I don't want to mess up all my grades now.....
wary stream
By understanding and not memorizing
gusty gorge
honestly, if your final exam is in a week
gusty gorge
to learn you need to remember things
yeah but your focus should be on learning, not memorizing
which is not what you're doing
but if your final exam is in a week and you're this far behind, you're kinda toast unless you memorize
memorization is for short-term results
native temple
but if your final exam is in a week and you're this far behind, you're kinda toa...
This far behind?
I got good grades on my pre calc exams
looks like passing a class isn't enough...
sigh
wary stream
I got good grades on my pre calc exams
But do you understand everything the how and why of what is presented to you?
gusty gorge
looks like passing a class isn't enough...
it isn't
native temple
Not even close
gusty gorge
the sooner you learn that, the easier your time in math will be
native temple
I obviously don't even understand how and why of completing the square
tacit arch
I obviously don't even understand how and why of completing the square
Do more problems. Argue less
native temple
the sooner you learn that, the easier your time in math will be
Who teaches you this?
vapid shuttle
I obviously don't even understand how and why of completing the square
if you are actually interested: https://youtu.be/McDdEw_Fb5E
native temple
Is khan academy a good resource
Is openstax good?
Uhhh in completing the square in conics when you factor out a number
1/2b^2 is supposed to be multiplied by the thing you factored out
vapid shuttle
I just sent a good resource
native temple
But by books always can khan academy says DIVIDE THE NUMBER IF IT’S NOT ONE OUT
Okay breathe eddie woo
vapid shuttle
?
vapid shuttle
not sure what you are saying really. If you have confusions with completing the square, I recommend watching the video I sent
gilded magnet
lone heartBOT
@native temple Has your question been resolved?
native temple
if you are actually interested: https://youtu.be/McDdEw_Fb5E
I don’t understand that
Do I need a understanding of high school geometry?
If so Idk geometry at all I besides trig and some concis
So triangles are 180 degrees sqares are n x n rectangles are n x m
Circles is all point equal distance from a center point
and trapiozodes exist
What other shapes are there?
and how does 3d geometry work?
native temple
.close
lone heartBOT
native temple
.reopen
lone heartBOT
✅
lone heartBOT
@native temple Has your question been resolved?
lone heartBOT
@native temple Has your question been resolved?
lone heartBOT
@native temple Has your question been resolved?
tropic geyser
How do I go about this?
lone heartBOT
How do I go about this?
late agate
do you know how absolute value graphs look like?
late agate
:V
lone heartBOT
lone heartBOT
Available help channel!
proven robin
i found this on the internet and was interested in how could I solve this, could someone please help me?
lone heartBOT
i found this on the internet and was interested in how could I solve this, could...
Show your work, and if possible, explain where you are stuck.