graduate-applications

[visual lagoon]

I've never heard of a US school requiring such advanced courses just for a math major

Of course math majors that are aiming to get math PhDs often take them

[slim wigeon]

my uni stops at ||1-sem real & 1-sem algebra||

[visual lagoon]

My uni requires two sems of each, plus a sem of complex analysis

[mossy niche]

my uni requires 9 proof based courses

thats a lie

9 upper division courses

not even proof based

[slim wigeon]

oh but you see we only require one of them www

[visual lagoon]

Well the full list of my uni's undergraduate math major requirements are:
At least 13 courses including

• Either three calculus courses or two proof-based calculus courses
• One course in partial differential equations
• One course in proof-based linear algebra
• Two semesters of analysis and algebra, each
• One semester of complex analysis

[mossy niche]

my uni doesnt even have an undergrad pde course

and the grad one isnt offered every year

[visual lagoon]

Yeah it seems to be uncommon among schools, my impression is that it's probably just offered to appease the engineering schools because most of the students in it are engineers or physicists, and the problems are just applying the same few techniques over and over again to various PDEs; there's also another undergrad PDE course that's more designed for math majors but I have not yet figured out how the two courses differ (probably just depends on the professor)

[slim wigeon]

damn imagine having a grad program at your school

[visual lagoon]

Yeah I'm glad my uni has a grad program, I learned a lot from grad students and grad-level classes

[mossy niche]

without grad students i would not be here

[pearl isle]

they're the basic versions of the classes

all focusing on classical stuff

so it's not as crazy as it sounds

but regardless - my point is that I doubt the US schools are as behind the japanese schools or Chinese schools they would have us believe

[limpid zealot]

It's a list of textbooks that may or may not have been used in a class of yours as far as I understand - bizarre that they require this twice

[main marlin]

Well US schools are more prestigious despite being easier

[limpid zealot]

In addition to what hap's stated, a lot of developing countries prefer US doctorates when it comes to faculty selection and policy making

As I've stated earlier, a US doctorate means immunity to a lot of academic garbage that takes place in Pakistan

[cosmic magnet]

Hope you're doing well homie @limpid zealot

Pakistan news seems pretty rough rn

[limpid zealot]

Thanks a bunch for the kind sentiments

It is what it is, unfortunately

I've been cooped up in my house to avoid getting into any scuffles

Situation's mostly clear now, minus some internet oddities

[shell kindle]

SDSU and UC Irvine are launching a joint phd program in computational sciences

If I understand correctly, they will be accepting 20 students

https://www.csrc.sdsu.edu/ph-d-program/

[merry geode]

Not the case in southeast asia.

[limpid zealot]

Interesting!

[merry geode]

Perhaps, only in Phillipines where it only accounts for around 16% of SEA in terms of population.

Indonesia, the biggest country in SEA, does not prefer US graduates.

[merry geode]

I can say this with certainty because their new government scholarship policy discourages people to study in the US.

[limpid zealot]

do you have an article or something? Sounds like an interesting read

[merry geode]

I only have confindential letters written in Indonesian.

[limpid zealot]

Ah! I see

[merry geode]

The tldr is like

They put a strict limit now on how many years you can go abroad to do your PhD.

Unfortunately that would just make pursuing PhD studies in the US impossible.

[limpid zealot]

I see

[merry geode]

Unless you can graduate with a PhD in the US in 4 years.

[limpid zealot]

is it on scholarships provided by the state?

[merry geode]

It doesnt matter. Even if you get fully funded from a US university, they will kick you out from your home uni if you don't come back after 4 years.

[limpid zealot]

What do you mean by home uni? Place of employment?

[merry geode]

Yes. Most Indonesians who go abroad to study PhD are employed by their indonesian uni.

[limpid zealot]

I see

I can't comment on Indonesia specifically since you're certainly much more aware of the situation there

There's similar policies in Pakistan (restriction on years studied, dismissal if PhD exceeds four years), and despite it being the case it is overwhelmingly clear that there's a certain bias to select US doctorates for most academic posts (unless it is political in nature, which is a separate issue)

[merry geode]

Ah I see.

Well in the case of Indonesia, the bias doesnt exist.

[limpid zealot]

That is fascinating

would you say this is consistent

or is this more of a new government thing

[merry geode]

The bias exists in the university rankings

But even that, it doesnt really matter much because its like

As long as it is within the top 300 according to QS

They dont really care

[limpid zealot]

I see

Fascinating

[merry geode]

The bias didnt exist back then as well, but the old government was more lenient with the amount of years you can go abroad and study.

[limpid zealot]

I'll certainly keep an eye on it if more news of it gets public

[merry geode]

And back then people actually chose the US not because of prestige

But it was more like they can bring more money if they save US dollars and bring those back to Indonesia.

[limpid zealot]

That's fair

[merry geode]

Statistically, you can see that despite being a country with almost 300 million people, its presence in the US is almost negligible.

Compared to Phillipines which is not even half of Indonesia.

[shell kindle]

Well the philippines was also an american colony for a bit so....

[merry geode]

Indeed, which I wouldnt find it surprising for them to put US schools on high pedestals.

[shell kindle]

Other places that were not US colonies do so as well though

[merry geode]

Oh yea, they do.

[limpid zealot]

Math in Pakistan is in an odd spot where you don't see anything interesting or legitimate

there's one professor here who's famous for publishing two papers a day in numerical and fluid (paper mill stuff)

[merry geode]

Well.. its probably a way to cheat through the system, I guess?

[limpid zealot]

oh for sure, bunch of absurd policies in higher ed here that made it a huge publishing game

I know one guy landing an alg top paper in the annals that's jobless right now

but eh, jumping into detail on the situation here is a big tangent

[merry geode]

Mathematics admissions in the US is tedious in my opinion.

If you apply as an international

That means you need GRE + GRE Subject + English Certificate.

Probably not an expensive amount to pay for high income countries but

[limpid zealot]

I agree - I'm pouring in all my savings into the process right now

thankfully I've gotten a job though

[merry geode]

At least in Indonesia that is years of live expenses.

[broken sphinx]

I was looking at the grad school program @ The University of Cambridge. 3.5 GPA minimum

[limpid zealot]

in some cases possibly higher, depending on where you're from

you have to meet their first class standard usually

[broken sphinx]

Yeah I can’t meet them in the middle there 😂 Life is a straight line @ The University of Cambridge apparently

To remove my bias, I question the method they utilized for this grading criteria: https://www.postgraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/before/international-qualifications

[limpid zealot]

which country are you from?

[broken sphinx]

United States

[limpid zealot]

ah

yeah these are tough requirements

I'm applying there with two high 3.9s, and the requirement is at least a 3.8/4.0 for Pakistan

knew a friend who was applying for a 2:1 degree and was rejected despite being well over the threshold

[broken sphinx]

I am genuinely interested in how they determined their metrics. It seems a bit excessive. I could apply to MIT or Carnegie Mellon University domestically.

[limpid zealot]

likewise

I think it's in part due to how the Tripos is structured there

if you check out the curriculum for Part I or II, they seem to be doing nothing but math for all three (four if you count Part III) years

but yeah

it does seem excessive

[broken sphinx]

I was unaware of the tripos system there. Just looked it up. I just pulled up their alumni and people tied to the university. Yeah just Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin

[limpid zealot]

c'mon, don't forget Atiyah

[broken sphinx]

Idk if this is a sad thing to say but that is not a common name here in the states 😂

[limpid zealot]

are you looking at Cambridge for maths or something else

[broken sphinx]

Dang he just passed rip

applied math and theoretical physics

[limpid zealot]

ah

alright, so dumb question

how do you folks refer to a specific textbook within your statement

do you just go by the author? full name of the book? etc.

[broken sphinx]

I don’t understand the framing of the question

[shell kindle]

Full name and authors

[broken sphinx]

Full name and title of the book I guess idk

[limpid zealot]

do you mention the title of the author or not

or do you just use their name

[shell kindle]

Just their name

[broken sphinx]

Is this for publishing research?

We have publishing guidelines and formats like that for academic papers

[shell kindle]

No it’s for graduate school applications, as the channel name suggests

[limpid zealot]

thanks a bunch

[broken sphinx]

Why would you need authors and textbook titles in grad applications

I’m slow oh statement of purpose and purpose statements

[limpid zealot]

there's also the dreaded textbook list

[broken sphinx]

I’m pretty lucky in my bachelors program. I can choose math in grad school or branch off somewhere else

Afaik from brief research online. It is really just theoretical and applied math that interests me for a doctorates

[limpid zealot]

that's neat - have you thought of any specific fields to get into

[broken sphinx]

I saw pure math and abstract math but that just falls into theoretical no?

[limpid zealot]

wait

[timber tundra]

To be frank, I'm not sure you're really at a point in your mathematics education to be considering grad apps

[limpid zealot]

theoretical what? math or physics?

[broken sphinx]

My senior year of my undergraduate degree is next year

[broken sphinx]

Math

[timber tundra]

Well, at least I've never heard the term "theoretical math" used by graduate programs

the traditional division is pure vs applied but if youre applying for grad school you should hopefully have a more specific idea of what youre targeting than that

like algebraic topology or w/e

[broken sphinx]

My major is data science with a minor in psychology. As far as math goes. It all goes from a data science point of view

I totally understand how technical this can get from a mathematical point of view

Well not totally. Theoretically speaking 😂

[broken sphinx]

Totally agree. I’m just planning ahead for foreseeable options

[broken sphinx]

Well my original major was civil engineering. It’s a long story. We should have a channel for these sort of discussions. Could be helpful in the transitions from high school to undergraduate to graduate level studies

It’s been fun need some sleep. Have a great day or good night y’all 👋

[mossy niche]

yeah I just submitted two textbooks that I used for research

[mossy niche]

this makes a lot more sense now, why you consider a 3.5 an ok GPA for graduate school if you started off in engineering

you have a unique background and you should leverage that as you apply

but just so you know, the vast majority of us math graduates who go into the top schools (including Cambridge p3) have a very high GPA since it's almost a prerequisite at this point

[pearl isle]

You don’t have to only apply to top schools. 3.5 is probably fine for a number of very decent schools especially if you’re not international

It also depends where you got that GPA

If you have straight As in your math classes but struggled with some civil engineering classes, then you probably are all of the sudden ok even for some top schools

[sudden sundial]

Generally PhD at cam requires 4 years of undergrad because theres no taught elements

so thats why their gpa thing is high

[pallid haven]

Would you mind sharing what PhD programs you are applying to?

[broken sphinx]

@mossy niche So there are U of Cam postgrads in here? Whoa. That is a big deal. I guess because of my path in formal education I see math from a different lens but don’t we all? There would be no progress in this field if we all thought the same. I see math from an abstract and concrete lens, theoretical vs applied. It may be based on my experiences throughout life. I am very much a big supporter of this field. It has been my favorite subject since I first learned to count lol

[broken sphinx]

This is why I question U of Cam’s metric and barrier of entry. But after pulling up their history I can see part of it is bureaucracy. This could be a good thing this could be a bad thing. Only time will tell

[cloud sphinx]

does anyone know of any type theory/logic PhD programmes in the UK? or other places in europe -- I've been looking at amsterdam and utrecht as well, at least
most of the names my supervisors have given me are retired or aren't taking students this year

[glossy river]

Ask to be added to the logic mailing list if you haven't. Idk who manages it tho

[cloud sphinx]

that's one of the 2 I've applied to so far 😭

I emailed one of the group leaders 3 weeks ago, waiting on a reply

I'll probably send another a week before the deadline to make sure it wasn't lost

the programme looks good though

and is closer to home than my current place

[broken sphinx]

You wouldn’t want to study abroad? I kinda wanna check out Portugal. Some unis have dual grad programs tho I’m not sure in the scope of just pure and applied math programs

[cloud sphinx]

depends on funding

I wouldn't be opposed to abroad if the funding covers it

[broken sphinx]

@cloud sphinx if you find any in the scope of pure and applied math please do tell. Send me an inbox 🙏

[cloud sphinx]

"pure and applied math" seems extremely broad

what areas specifically

[broken sphinx]

It’s because of my major field of study. I study data science. It’s a super broad field

[cloud sphinx]

as is maths

but the point is you should have a focus for a phd application

[limpid zealot]

a PhD application for a geometer is very different from that of an analyst

you should at least grab a couple of interests

[cloud sphinx]

I know people who are applying for PhDs specifically on classifications of 4-manifolds, and others on cohomology of 2-stacks

the topics can get very specific

[limpid zealot]

okay, that's incredibly specific

dang

[broken sphinx]

Me and Diff were just talking about U of Cam. They have a doctorates program in applied math and theoretical physics. So probably something along those lines. I can niche down the focus from there

[cloud sphinx]

you're supposed to write a research proposal before you apply (for UK universities) -- you'd just submit it to the applied math and theoretical physics programme to be considered

[limpid zealot]

I think you'd benefit a lot more from the US in that the doctoral programs there take a ton of folks that have yet to decide a specialization

a doctorate in the UK or most of EU expects you to have studied a masters and come in with a concrete research problem

I'm applying to Cambridge for Part III, not the doctorate

[broken sphinx]

Does Europe and the UK have BS to PhD fast track programs? We have that here or it is offered as an option

[cloud sphinx]

some PhDs have a master's rolled in to the first year as a taught year

where you do exams (oral exams, at least at my uni) at the end of the first year and test if you are ready to continue to the rest of the PhD

and you can still apply to PhD programmes with a BSc and no MSc in any case

you'd just have to think about your research proposal more

[broken sphinx]

We have an en-route masters in lieu of your progress in a doctorates program. There are a bunch of options out there

Well I’m not sure for pure and applied math tho

[mossy niche]

this is the norm for the us

[sudden sundial]

Btw if anybody has questions about PhD in cam dampt you can ask me as long as its not too long of a question (im not a current phd student but I am currently part III, and I'm currently filling out application forms...)

[limpid zealot]

just paid out all the TOEFL reports

my wallet is in tears

[tacit lark]

why do you keep saying pure and applied math

[glossy river]

For either probably.

[broken sphinx]

Idk Namington told me. #graduate-applications message

I said theoretical and applied math and apparently that is not the distinct line that is drawn in abstract vs concrete math. It’s pure vs applied math

[slim wigeon]

it is pure vs applied

I think the question is why you didn’t just say math

(to which it’s whatever for me)

[broken sphinx]

oh. I’m trying to encapsulate the whole field of math into a formal description of a doctorates degree where I can apply to a university that’s offers the program and do studying and research lol

So far I found U of Cam but the barrier of entry is tough. Anyone know any universities plz ping me 👍

In case anyone else is down this road. There’s Cornell, Columbia, Harvard, MIT iirc (?)

[visual lagoon]

You'll find it difficult to get into any programs if you don't first have an idea of what you would want to specialize in and what you might want to research

You should talk to math professors at your uni whose work you're interested in and ask them for advice

[mossy niche]

the formal description is math

[broken sphinx]

I actually got lucky. I am doing computational modeling research in the spring. My research professor his background is all math. He is a Harvard and MIT alumn. Got his doctorates in applied math

[mossy niche]

this is very common among math professors

[visual lagoon]

You should ask him for advice for specific research topics and programs to apply to, he will know your interests better than any of us

[broken sphinx]

Yea he’s like super old mb older peeps. MIT c/o 1975 💀

[visual lagoon]

So he's like 70ish? He'll have good advice. Also ask around for other people in the department's opinions, like his colleagues or any collaborators. It'd also be good to talk to his other students about your situation and see what he has to say.

I don't see what his age has to do with this

Maybe his advice about specific programs will be out-of-date, but his overall advice will still be valuable

[broken sphinx]

I agree. The old timers know a thing or 2

[tacit lark]

There are plenty of phd programs that are just math and not pure/applied.

[merry geode]

PhD research is incredibly specific. To illustrate, a data science-ish example is doing research on the convergence of derivative-free gradient descent methods.

Obviously, one does not need to deeply specialize prior to PhD. However, one needs to at least know a specific area of interest to craft a good personal statement/cover letter/research proposal.

[broken sphinx]

@merry geode I will take this into account. I really appreciate all of the feedback. Especially from the math community

[merry geode]

Best of luck

[limpid zealot]

You too, eh? One of my recommenders is class of '73

Ask him about it

Should definitely have some solid advice

[swift palm]

Does Rutgers send emails to you when your recommenders submit their letters?

[pearl isle]

Most schools do

Idk about Rutgers specifically

Though, not all schools do. EG: neither MIT nor Santa Barbara do (personal experience)

You should still be able to double check the status on the portals

[spring portal]

MIT has a portal from 1980

I had to send mails on my own which was so bizzare

[pearl isle]

Yep me too

It’s pretty funny how shitty the portal of the Massachusetts institute of technology is

[limpid zealot]

I've gotten two letters in, but I'm having issues with my third one - does not having all three by the deadline result in a desk reject?

[mossy niche]

doesn't mit list a reason for why they do manual email lor requests

I didn't read it tho since I didn't really care about the reason

[mossy niche]

there is a bit of leeway for the lor

[swift palm]

I know, that's why I asked. Also in the portal there doesn't seem to be a place where you can see the status of the letters

[visual lagoon]

Oh my god I hate MIT

Although, I don't remember having to send in LOR mails on my own. Maybe it's different for the neuroscience PhD portal.

[limpid zealot]

your portal is very different

the math portal is vanilla HTML looking

like early 2000s type

[mossy niche]

we don't talk about apply web

[glossy river]

Got another mail for logic PhD position: We invite applications for a four-year PhD studentship on the Leverhulme-funded project "ECUMENICAL: Proof-theoretic semantics for non-classical and modal logics”, led by Dr. Elaine Pimentel, Prof. David Pym, and Prof. Luiz Carlos Pereira at UCL Computer Science, UK.

[cloud sphinx]

tyty

I'm doing intuitionistic and modal logics in my project this year so that sounds great

[silk osprey]

is it a good idea to mention professors at a university which that im applying to? like mentioning that there research areas align with my interests and stuff like that?

I don't really know how of my personal statement I should spend talking about it

[mossy niche]

1 sentence

[silk osprey]

Fr?

I was about to drop a paragraph

[visual lagoon]

Really? 1 sentence seems really small

[pearl isle]

I disagree w Cat I wrote a paragraph

So did most other people I’ve talked to

At the bare minimum it signals some effort put into the statement so they can see it’s not purely copy pasted from other apps

And it can contribute possibly also

[visual lagoon]

It also gives the committee some confidence that you won't get there and then realize you don't like anything there and drop out

[smoky jetty]

I mentioned profs by name in a paragraph about why specifically I was interested in that program

[chilly turret]

i second this

[smoky jetty]

I didn't necessarily say "Person A does this which I'm interested in. Person B does this which I'm interested in" etc

Because I don't know enough about (in my case algebraic combinatorics) to speak intelligently about "hm yes I'm interested in the connections between algebraic combinatorics and Hodge Theory and thus I would like to work with Eric Katz"

I just more or less said "ya these 3 people do algebraic combinatorics in a variety of settings and as such I am interested in attending this university"

[somber pendant]

Hello I know that this is a really specific question but does somebody know why can't I apply for M1 in the ENS of Lyon? I am in the cadens website and I can't select it and I don't want to enter the second year of master. I am a foreign student

[mossy niche]

this is the sentence i mean

i dont think you can realistically spend more than a sentence really talking about it unless you really know what you want to do or you really know the university

[pearl isle]

Ideally you have something different to say for each prof

Eg: shoutout a major theorem they proved

Shoutout some aspect of their work you’d like to learn more about

[mossy niche]

you can do that, sure. my advisor told me that i should have very little idea of what i want to do and that it is most genuine to just mention a couple of people that i might want to work with, but beyond that its mostly just to list down names of people who the committee might want to ask about your application

aka names that your letter writers know...

fundamentally he also told me to not go overboard on essays because there are much better things in life to worry about, like doing actual math

considering it still took me 3 whole days of editing just to submit all my applications, 1 sentence is already a lot to worry about, and probably a minimum. but if you're able to write more then it will certainly be better

[cosmic magnet]

Can you send out an application early and have your letter writers upload their recommendations after your submission?

Is this mostly school dependant or nah?

[pearl isle]

I’ve been editing on/off for 4 months

So I agree you can definitely go overboard lol

[pearl isle]

Mostly this is fine

[spring portal]

I also wrote a paragraph entailing all 3 professors, around 200 words ish.

that too mostly coz i had a 1k word limit

if not, i would have written a bit more

[dire brook]

I'm not sure I understood if you're trying to apply to the Diplôme or not (i.e. auditeur de master)

[swift palm]

Do I need to fill out the "relevant coursework" part when applying to UCLA? All this info is already present in my transcript.

[glossy river]

Just fill out whatever they want you to fill out. Don't give them an easy way to take away points from your app

[swift palm]

there is only place for like 5 courses

I took 20-30

[glossy river]

Then I'd put the most "advanced" and "relevant" courses there. You can ask them what's up though.

[swift palm]

I don't like email exchanges. I wrote down the "big man" courses.

figured it can't hurt

also will need to completely rewrite my sop because ucla wants 500 words max

and will need to bullshit my way through the personal statement because contributing to diversity etc is not really a thing in my country

[open hamlet]

damn ur applying to PhD at 20?

[paper granite]

Fairly normal for US unis, masters and PhDs are kinda rolled into one over there

[paper granite]

I mean you might be 21 by the time you finish, but I don’t think being 20 at this point in your final year is all that uncommon? Maybe not the norm but certainly not unheard of

[somber pendant]

@light tide yeah, I want to apply for the first year of master M1

[dire brook]

As auditeur, right?

[somber pendant]

I'm sorry but what does this mean?

[dire brook]

Like there's a difference between applying to the "Diplôme" or just the Master ("hors diplôme" = auditeur)

[somber pendant]

oh I did not know that but I suppose yes, as an auditeur

[dire brook]

So you're saying you can't choose the orange option?

[somber pendant]

no sorry, not auditeur, I do want the diplome, so I want to choose the first option. I can only choose Master 2 in the orange option

the orange one is the only one I can click

I want Diplome, Niveau M1. When I click the second option I can only select Master 2

[smoky jetty]

I don't see how you can do this unless you somehow have enough background as an UG to actually understand these theorems. Otherwise you're just skimming papers and finding a named theorem which like what's the point

[mossy niche]

this is how I feel precisely. if you go overboard it might even feel a bit pretentious

[tacit lark]

thats fine

[dire brook]

Wait let me ask some people if it's possible to get into the diplome without redoing an L3

Also are you an EU citizen?

[dire brook]

So apparently it should in principle be possible with the last changes

But it may depend on the dept

So I recommend emailing them

(sophie.bonche AT ens-lyon.fr)

[spring portal]

same

For my statements I listed the broad areas profs work on and told how i have some problems which would be compatible with their experience and knowledge

I don't wanna say I loved their paper from 2022 on arxiv when I don't understand things done in it outside of the title lmao

[somber pendant]

thanks!

[somber pendant]

The thing is that the website does not let me select even L3, so I cannot even redo L3

[dire brook]

Yeah idk, these websites are glitchy af so I suggest just emailing them to ask what's going on

Good luck with your application! 💪

[somber pendant]

thanks! Could I DM for some more questions if you don't mind?

[dire brook]

Go ahead

[swift palm]

ja cause I started uni at 17

[swift palm]

yeah more or less this

[pearl isle]

well my thought is like (1) I try to understand a little bit more than the title before I write that, but (2) even if I don't: you can study it when they ask to interview you lol

if there's no shot I could understand it at all even with studying then yeah I wont put it

[tacit lark]

I think it can come across as disingenuous if you name drop things you dont really understand

[pearl isle]

True, I’m not name dropping stuff I completely don’t understand

At least in the field I’m interested in (low dimensional topology) I can usually get the gist of what people are proving in papers even if the proofs are above my head

Possibly this is just a benefit of my field though

[mossy niche]

that I can see

i can't understand any of the papers in my field. the only one I have been able to partially understand was because the professor who wrote it visited my uni and explained it to me

[pearl isle]

Makes sense

Guys I’m sad there’s basically 7 schools I’m guaranteed to not get in to because my subject GRE is too bad

[hot wadi]

be optimistic bro

[pearl isle]

(58 percentile. UCLA stats website says on average their accepted students are 80th percentile lol)

[mossy niche]

focus on what you got

[pearl isle]

I imagine the others are similar

[tacit lark]

Dont submit

[hot wadi]

ig we can say that ur GRE is a "weak" point in ur application

[pearl isle]

I’m not for non mandatory programs

[hot wadi]

surely u have strong points 😄

so like its fine

[pearl isle]

But yeah 7 schools I’m applying to have it mandatory

The others I’m not submitting

[pearl isle]

Yeah tbh I think the rest of my app is quite strong

Which is the saddest part

[hot wadi]

yeah cool bro like be optimistic

any app has strong/weak points

dw about it 😄

[tacit lark]

Or dont apply to those places

[pearl isle]

I’m applying 18 total

So I’m applying to 11 that don’t require it

[tacit lark]

Ok thats fine then

[pearl isle]

I guess 16 not counting masters

These 7 are just like “eh whatever I’m rich and maybe I’ll get in”

But I’m still kinda sad abt it because the programs are cool

[tacit lark]

Youre applying to ucla stats for low dim topology?

[pearl isle]

The people are doing interesting research

Nah for that app I mentioned other stuff and I didn’t name dropping papers

I mentioned K theory (they have quite a lot of profs in it)

And one guy in low dim top

I am interested in topology vaguely - not hard set on low dim top

I would be happy doing something more algebraic

Low dim top is what I did my research in tho

So if they have people in it it’s what I mention first

[mossy niche]

thank you for funding our mathematical research 🫡

[mossy niche]

the normal USA timeline is 18-21 so it's pretty normal?

maybe 22 if your birthday is during the school year

[slim wigeon]

sadly

[pearl isle]

not normal but not unheard of

[tacit lark]

most people ik graduate at 22. The vast majority start at 18 and finish at 22.

[pearl isle]

if you have just one major and are locked in it's pretty easy to graduate fast

you just don't have to

so most ppl dont

[cosmic magnet]

I know someone who graduated in two years at 19

[mossy niche]

the summer holiday is 1/4 of the year after all so on very rough average I think it would be 1/4 of the people who graduate at 21

[tacit lark]

You said the normal timeline is 18-21…

[mossy niche]

22 if your birthday is during the school year

same thing really

[cosmic magnet]

I'm 20 and applying rn

I'll be 21 soon though

[feral harbor]

hey guys

I am from Latam

to apply for graduate programs in North America and Europe, you can/should send 2 GRE's subject scores(math and physics)? Or you have to choose one?

[mossy niche]

are you applying for math or physics

[feral harbor]

mechanical engineering

[swift palm]

I highly doubt they require subject gre for that

No it's 4 year bachelors I am graduating next year

2021-25

[soft narwhal]

Hi everyone, I live in Australia and there's no places that administer the GRE mathematics subject test. All the places I'm applying to say a GRE is optional but I'm wondering if it's truly optional or the other kind of optional where it isn't

[pearl isle]

Majority of applicants don’t take it now

So even if they liked it they can’t really do anything at this point

Therefore it mostly truly is optional

[spring portal]

yea

if you got good grades and some research exp i dont think there is any need to bother with GRE

[swift palm]

is this true for international? I would be skeptical

the rule of thumb seems to be in order to get accepted as a international you need good grades research exp good gre good rec letters AND luck.

[mossy niche]

for math, australian universities are relatively well known compared to the rest of international community

[open hamlet]

would unis care about pass failing every ge (usa)

I have like 10~15 fucking ge requirements

[shell kindle]

Most will not care too much

[pearl isle]

I doubt GRE is that important for anyone

Depends where you’re applying but again, most students even most international students don’t take it

Thus if a university is dead set on only taking gre students they’re limiting their options a lot unless they make it mandatory to apply

That said, you’re right that it’s much harder for international students

(Though as a domestic student, I will selfishly say that’s a good thing)

[mossy niche]

it's very important to meet whatever cutoff and after that it's not at all important

[pearl isle]

The context is whether it’s important to submit or not

For optional schools

I said likely not

[mossy niche]

very true, unless you are applying for a school explicitly saying that the score is strongly recommended (e.g. UT Austin and Maryland) in which case you should treat it as required

but maryland also strongly recommends the normal GRE and I really hope they don't care about it

[visual lagoon]

You uni allows you to pass/fail all of them? That's rather surprising to me, I don't think my uni allows me to pass/fail any requirements

[open hamlet]

general education stuff

like math major requirements aren't allowed to pass fail

[visual lagoon]

Yes I understand

That's still extremely surprising to me

[open hamlet]

huh

you go to private or public?

[open hamlet]

I can only pass fail one per quarter granted

[visual lagoon]

A private uni in the US

[open hamlet]

I see

I go to public (UCLA) so maybe it just wants people out quickly

[mossy niche]

my school has around 20 gened requirements none of which are allowed pass fail

[visual lagoon]

I ended up only taking 8 general education requirement courses, due to some double-counting and being exempt from the foreign language requirement

I still take plenty of non-math courses though

[pearl isle]

I am officially $2000 poorer than last week

18/18 I am finally fucking free

Let’s fucking go

[cosmic magnet]

bro...

[visual lagoon]

Damn, 18

Is that typical for math?? I applied to 10 neuroscience schools and that seems like it was on the higher side

[cosmic magnet]

I think 10-15 is the typical range

[pearl isle]

16 PhD 2 masters

Was my distribution

[cosmic magnet]

Also, I've asked this before but I can submit my application before my LOR writers submit right?

[cosmic magnet]

European Masters?

[pearl isle]

Yep

Zurich and Cambridge

[visual lagoon]

On every site I've been to, yes

The school probably has a little FAQ about it

[shell kindle]

15 for math is a pretty normal number

[mossy niche]

i know someone who applied to 80

[cosmic magnet]

WHAT

That gotta be cap

ainnoway any letter writer accepted the task of submitting to 80 different places

[shell kindle]

For post docs, the numbers are higher as well

[tacit lark]

Postdoc and faculty is different

I think applying to dozens of schools for faculty positions is the norm

[visual lagoon]

Maybe I should just quit now, that sounds exhausting

[mossy niche]

there is some application where you can ask for a letter to be uploaded to this platform, and then you can use that as your letter of rec

out of all my schools I recall there was only one school that explicitly said you could use this method

[tacit lark]

Ridiculous waste of money

[mossy niche]

so basically the letter writers only did the process once

[visual lagoon]

Lol do you know how many they got accepted in? Like what's the point, you can only go to one school anyways

[tacit lark]

There arent 80 schools id want to go to

[mossy niche]

they went down the top schools from 20 to 100 and got accepted to the 50th

[pearl isle]

Lmfao

[mossy niche]

btw this is a current postdoc at my school who didn't have the greatest undergrad experience

[visual lagoon]

That's crazy lol I can't imagine going down a list like that

[mossy niche]

I'm glad they did, since they're an awesome professor

that's also essentially what my advisor told me to do for 1-20 lmao

[tacit lark]

Youre saying they only got into one school.

[mossy niche]

idk what schools they got into

[tacit lark]

Thats not comparable

[mossy niche]

i feel like the probabilities to get into a school might be comparable. at one point the undergrad GPA was low 1.Xs

[glossy river]

For anyone wondering, it's called Interfolio, and I think it's from ElSevier

mathjobs.org also allows you to upload once, and apply to many

[tacit lark]

I dont think many phd programs use mathjobs.

I didnt see any when i applied

[glossy river]

Mostly European that I saw

[cosmic magnet]

Like 1.5/4.0? idk how that happens

[mossy niche]

usually people with such gpas are put on academic probation and then kicked out

actually, my prof got kicked out then got a second chance later on

[swift palm]

the problem is not the well known of your school - pretty sure there are much more well known schools in europe and england. the problem is if you are an international student you are "more expensive" for the school (the tuition they cover etc is higher)

relatedly, I learned that this year the comp bio programs at stanford and mit are rejecting international applicants regardless of qualification

and this is true for other "small" departments also, but idk if it is true for math

[open hamlet]

cus of govt not giving money for internationals or smthn?

[swift palm]

I don't know. The exact statement passed to me is "smaller programs this year at stanford and mit are losing grants and thus will be rejecting intl applicants regardless of qualification"

[mossy niche]

visas fees etc are expensive for the universities

[open hamlet]

ah

[worldly herald]

took an intro cs class which was required for my math major and seriouslt fucked up and missed the final exam today and thought it was next week, so i will fail the class presumably unless it's somehow possible to take it later. this is a non-math class but is this going to screw up my chances of grad school

[pearl isle]

Cs has higher chances than other things to be harmful but it should still probably be fine

Especially if you’re not doing applied math

[mossy niche]

well, on the not so negative side, you now have something legitimate to put in the external circumstance box and how you learned from the experience

[worldly herald]

i thought it was thursday not wednesday so i didnt actually miss the exam im fine

[shell kindle]

Why are you talking about APs

[cosmic magnet]

Sorry for the late reply but I'm applying to a couple of programs in the Midwest so Purdue, Wisconsin and Madison. I have a few typical reaches where I don't really expect to get in. I'm applying to a few 'lower' ranked schools like Tennessee, North Carolina State and Emory

[paper granite]

Who doesn’t love a double fuck up that works out in the end lol

[worldly herald]

this is why i should still pay attention to the easy classes because if i dont im gonna actually fuck up next time and miss the final

[swift palm]

purdue and madison are very strong in analysis!

[rigid veldt]

I have kind of a conundrum as to who to ask for my PhD references. I already have one out of two I need.

The choices are, essentially:
a) Lecturer very well-respected in my field, but low contact with him apart from 1 quarter-semester module despite actively trying to work with him on an internship multiple times.

b) Lecturer in pure maths but different field, 2 quarter-semester modules over the last academic year. Probably the main reason I had gone through higher level analysis unscathed.

c) Lecturer, pure maths, related field but not the exact same thing. 3 quarter-semester modules total including a module I'm doing right now. Great guy, but extremely disorganised.

d) The supervisor of my summer internship last year. Very much related field, generally very well organised person, but I have been very bad at keeping in contact since, on top of overpromising and underdelivering a decent bit.

My main ideas are b) and c) as of now?

[shell kindle]

This is not for this year right

Depending on where you apply, you may need 3 references

[rigid veldt]

I'm applying to the UK, places there tend to need 2 references, and those usually being explicitly academic

[shell kindle]

Ok then b and c

[rigid veldt]

Thing is, b) or c), because I already have one letter from my masters project supervisor.

[shell kindle]

Oh

Ask your masters project supervisor

[rigid veldt]

Yeaaaa I was thinking of doing this

Kind of unfortunate that I am super busy with exams rn and the deadlines for stuff are waaay too soon

But it should be doable

[paper granite]

Yes the UK classic of all your deadlines for applications being in the middle of exam season, so they don’t have any results to base their decision on and you have no time to write a good application

I’m really glad I can’t afford to apply here because just wtf actually is that about, very silly

[rigid veldt]

I mean, I am applying with grades from over a semester's worth of masters level modules, I think that counts for a lot

Even if the current results aren't included, it counts for a decent bit

The main problem for me is that the most likely source of funding has application deadlines around uhhh
End of next week.

Everything else is much later

[mossy niche]

its the same in the us unless your school ends particularly early

[paper granite]

Does your uni show the grades of courses you’ve not sat the exam for yet? My exams aren’t even until next week

I’m mainly looking at Europe and the deadlines are a bit later which is nice

[rigid veldt]

All of my modules are 100% exam based lmao

Not really a thing they can do then

[paper granite]

Yeah I mean that’s why I was asking mine are all 80-100% so it just kinda feels weird sending off apps now

[visual lagoon]

Mine doesn't

Only grades for first three years of classes

[paper granite]

Yeah no same here, I just think it’s a bit odd with masters applications in the UK because it means they’re largely judging you on a single years work (only honours, final 2 years, counts towards your degree classification) and you’ve not done your project yet

The deadlines in Europe are all a bit later so you should at least have sem 1 results

[edgy marsh]

guys i will apply for a phd in about a year or two from now, any pointers on what i should do, i am currently working to get some money and doing research on the side with a professor on Deep Learning algorithms, for my phd i would like to work in computational complexity theory, any universities that i should look out for? any advice would be helpful. Thanks in advance

[broken sphinx]

In general how many people make the decision whether to accept or reject your application? For those who have gotten their graduate applications accepted

[broken sphinx]

Yo. Sounds like we have similar interests. Where are you based out of

[edgy marsh]

what do you mean when you say based out of ?

[shell kindle]

This is not known to applicants

[cosmic magnet]

I've heard that at some places masters admissions are through an entire different process compared to PhD admissions? Wherein that your application isn't reviewed by a committee but by someone akin to an admissions officer

Is that true for Math/CS research based masters programs? If so that's a bit worrying

[shell kindle]

Masters admissions vary a lot more

[cosmic magnet]

I was talking to a professor and he made that distinction clear when I was talking about masters opportunities

I understand that's clear obv but it's not a committee then in this case

Which makes sense ig since masters students aren't necessarily offered funding so offers don't have to be as rigorous

[shell kindle]

Some places do research masters admissions in the same way as phd admissions though

[cosmic magnet]

Man, I really don't want to do a masters to compensate for my lacklustre undergrad exp😭

[shell kindle]

My institution, a large US research institution, for example

[cosmic magnet]

My main worry is that I won't end up getting an offer for funding whether it be through a TA'ship or not which kind of sucks

ig it would be a conflict of interest if your LOR writer is part of the admissions committee right? (if I'm applying to my undergrad institution for grad)

[shell kindle]

They will recuse themselves

[shell kindle]

This varies by institution

[cosmic magnet]

Yep. I found a few institutions which offer some guarantee for students like Florida and Wake Forest. Not much more than those places

[shell kindle]

Michigan has a funded research masters which can transition into the phd program

[cosmic magnet]

I don't meet the requirements (not first gen etc.)

[shell kindle]

[cosmic magnet]

I should probably study for my midterm that's in an hour rather than worrying about research programs 😅

[broken sphinx]

Where do you live 😂

I may apply for a joint PhD next year. It depends how the year goes

[smoky jetty]

1: take grad classes
2: see if you can find an REU to do for a summer (research exp + rec letter)
3: closer to when you want to apply talk to profs at your university who do computational complexity theory for recs of schools to apply to

[tacit lark]

to find schools you can also look at the affiliations of authors of complexity papers you think look interesting published in STOC, FOCS, CCC and maybe some other tcs conferences like approx/random, itcs.

[dense rapids]

Hi! Does anyone have any advice for uploading a writing sample to a graduate program? Up until a few hours ago, I had no idea what that was, and the prompt was given without a description. After some digging on the internet, I found that its probably related to academic writing/research one may have done. I have done an REU and helped co-author a paper which is now under review for publication. This is the only real evidence I have for mathematical writing, other than my own personal LaTeX notes and homework. Any helpful input would be appreciated :)

[spring portal]

you can upload it ig, or maybe the sections or chapters you wrote (assuming your REU advisor would allow you to do so)

[spring portal]

If I have an opportunity to ask some questions to a lab member of a potential advisor, what would be good questions aside from technical ones?

[visual lagoon]

how often they meet with their advisor, what the advising environment is like

[spring portal]

👍

[edgy marsh]

i can do the first two but the problem is the third one, there isnt a professor who does complexity theory at my uni...

[shell kindle]

Do what jek said then

[smoky jetty]

No one who does CS theory or anything related at all? Either in CS department or math department?

[soft narwhal]

is it good form to email potential phd supervisors before you apply?

[shell kindle]

Do you have specific questions for them?

[soft narwhal]

in the us

i have a general idea of what their projects are from reading their papers

[smoky jetty]

my impression is that if you email

you'll get one of two responses

1: no response

2: "damn that's crazy. you should apply"

as such I don't see a point in emailing

[silk sapphire]

what about for a 4/5 month research internship as a Master's student?
considering an internship in the US as a European

is there still an application process, or can you just send a mail and talk with them -> internship agreement and that is that?

[smoky jetty]

No idea, never applied for those

[hardy aurora]

Lmao this is true even for most profs in the UK as well
But in all places I think it's good to make sure that the prof u wanna work with at least is open to taking students, and not idk retiring or leaving any time soon

[knotty marsh]

Sometimes they say something about your background and tell yoj that they will alert the committee after you apply (this is good because I hear that most applications aren't being read carefully at most schools)

Some encourage you to apply and express the possibility of mentoring you

[visual lagoon]

^

I think the policy really just depends on the uni and prof

[spring portal]

well yea, but that's different than hundreds of applicants saying please let me in during application cycle

[hardy aurora]

Yeah, from my exp out of all 6 people I've contacted, only 1 I had a mini chat with, others either ghosted me or just told me to apply lol, so that's why I said most

[eternal sandal]

Stupid question, but how exactly should I write a cover letter?

[molten frigate]

It should be roughly one page long if not slightly less, first paragraph should clearly state who you are (e.g. a major in mathematics) and the purpose of the latter (e.g. applying to a graduate program). Then the following paragraphs should briefly explain your motivations, how they fit with the school/department/employer/etc.'s interests and some concrete accomplishments supporting your fit for the role

a statement of purpose is a slightly different but related kind of document, here's a possible structure for one https://writeivy.com/statement-of-purpose-for-phd-admission-a-universal-formula/

(among the search results for that kinda thing; there's lots of resources and sample letters online)

fundamentally a cover letter should answer the question "why is Eduardo León fit for this role", clearly and concisely while based on facts (= your accomplishments, current goals and interests and those of the institution you're applying to)

there are no stupid questions, by the way

[eternal sandal]

Thanks!

[pine ocean]

How important are gpa and course difficulty in grad app?

[shell kindle]

They are important

[pine ocean]

how many are good enough/impressive

because i think normally students complete undergrad with all upperdivision finished right

and they take algebra/analysis in junior year

so there isnt like time to take grad courses

[pearl isle]

Tbh, I think most of the students competitive for top PhD positions probably took these as <= sophomores

Not that you had to have done so to be competitive

But probably most of the competitive ones have done so

[cosmic magnet]

I think taking algebra/analysis sophomore year isn't too suprising

[pine ocean]

dang thats fast

imagine someone taking these as freshman year

thats kinda insane tbh

[pine ocean]

what about extracurriculars

as compared to undergrad app

[pearl isle]

There is a current freshman who im friends with carrying my ass in all 3 of my grad classes

He’s actually in a 4th also

[pine ocean]

so he took algebra and analysis before college?

[pearl isle]

Yes

Dual enrollment

He’s on this server so Serkan if you’re reading this check the ego buddy

Don’t get a big head

[cosmic magnet]

I know someone who took graduate algebra in HS through dual enrollment

Dual enrollment kids get an unreal boost ngl

[dire brook]

I so wish we had this here

[slim wigeon]

same

[cosmic magnet]

Is there a significant difference between auditing a class versus taking it for a grade admissions wise?

[shell kindle]

Yes

[cosmic magnet]

shoot, need to consider whether I should underload or not then

[smoky jetty]

if you audit a course it will not appear on the transcript

[smoky jetty]

Are you considering this for your last sem? It really doesn't matter lol

your 8th sem courses are not gonna change anything about your application

if you can save money underloading, may be worth it

[eternal hill]

Does anyone know whether caltech's low-dimensional geometry and topology department is strong?

[mossy niche]

this is mainly true for schools where this is a precedent (berkeley and the very top schools)

i didnt take algebra my sophomore year because of a schedule conflict, but no one in my year took analysis and algebra in sophomore year

[outer reef]

berkeley is a very top school lol

[mossy niche]

i know

i just emphasized because i know luka.s goes there

[pearl isle]

Yeah tbh I do wonder how much of a bubble my experiences are

[outer reef]

oh

[pearl isle]

So fair

[outer reef]

you mean for ugrad

[pearl isle]

Yeah

[outer reef]

then yeah its not as good as the top few

[pearl isle]

:(

[mossy niche]

actually, in all the grad school panels at my school, it was repeatedly emphasized that to be very competitive you need to take the honors undergrad analysis and algebra sequence, and get all As, and anything else is merely a bonus

[outer reef]

i mean

that is partly because other schools select for math preparation

in ug admissions

[pearl isle]

Ok but we’re best public school no rich private school snobs here

😤😤😤

[outer reef]

its not really about wealth tbh

[pearl isle]

Sorry I will refrain from SchoolSpiritPosting

[outer reef]

yes

that is not enough though

but yes that is the bare minimum

[mossy niche]

for the very top schools it is a bare minimum

[outer reef]

it is not enough

for the very top

not even close

you need to learn topology and geometry

or have a very strong research interest and coursework and/or research to back it up

if your application literally just conveys you took 4 courses

then like

good luck lol

do you go to harvard or something

i cant imagine why a school would tell their students this

unless they had a ridiculously overinflated view of their ug curriculum

[mossy niche]

no

[outer reef]

what school?

or what type of school if you dont want to say

[mossy niche]

t10 private

[outer reef]

but not t5?

[pearl isle]

Bruh this is such a high school ass conversation

[outer reef]

no its not

these things are relevant

[pearl isle]

Do you not have a little bit of shame to utter the sentence “but not t5?”

Like that’s so sad

[outer reef]

no

its relevant

[pearl isle]

Lol

[outer reef]

prestige is how admissions ocmmittees

calibrate

their impression of an applicant

[mossy niche]

[outer reef]

i dont give a shit about rankings

but it does matter and anyone who says otherwise is naive or lying

its easy to feel like youre above it when you're at one of the top schools e.g. berkeley

the point is like

prestige is correlated with the status of the professors

and the past outcomes of the students

from the pov of the admissions committee, if they see an applicant from harvard who took 2 semesters of honors analysis/algebra vs. the same from an unknown school

both with As

[pearl isle]

I mean I guess I would say

[outer reef]

they have a much easier time of gauging what that actually means for the harvard studnet

[pearl isle]

I agree that 4 classes only is not enough for an app

[outer reef]

because theyve seen hundreds of harvard applications before and admitted many of those students and seen their outcomes

and similarly for rec letters

[pearl isle]

But I also think it’s not enough even if those 4 classes are Princeton classes

Lol

[outer reef]

if the writer is famous then it makes it more likely the adcom has a feeling for what the letter actually means

[pearl isle]

It doesn’t matter if you’re doing 4 classes only it’s not enough at any school pretty much

[outer reef]

yes obviously

[pearl isle]

And then once apps start getting a lot of other factors

Then the school ranking matters a lot less than your individual situation

Sure it helps, but many small schools have very big name professors

[outer reef]

yes the ranking is irrelevant if you can build a good application

the point is just

you need to recognize that this is a reality

and find ways to shape your application accordingly

like doing the bare minimum will never work, because someone can do the bare minimum at princeton and therefore have a strictly stronger application than yours---not because princeton is inherently better, but because the adcom has a better sense of what the bare minimum actually means at princeton

the reason i asked about rankings is because

i think at the very top ugrad institutions, there is a bit of a sense that they are above this

even at the level of the faculty

like i think harvard students/profs have an insanely overinflated view of math 55

so i can imagine profs at a small handful of schools deluding themselves into thinking that their students genuinely only need to take 4 courses to get in anywhere

i got a lot of shitty advice from profs in ugrad

many of them have no idea how admissions works

except perhaps at their own school

also math phd programs have gotten orders of magnitude more competitive in the last 10 years

so they also may just not know what it's like nowadays

[cosmic magnet]

I am but I'm also considering the fact that I probably will be reapplying if I have to take a gap year

[smoky jetty]

ok fair enough

then it matters more in that case obviously

[outer reef]

the other reason ranking matters is because it correlates with the strength of your peers, but that is not something most high schoolers can understand or think of

[cosmic magnet]

|| Karthek is teaching Mixed Integer Programming and I really want to take it and not audit😭 ||

[smoky jetty]

that'll be a good class, I say take it

[cosmic magnet]

|| My class choices as of now are potentially 500 with Dunfield (de GOAT) and a special topics with Jeff. So I have to optimize accordingly if I want to underload||

[undone yacht]

maybe in terms of number of applicants, not in quality from my experience

[outer reef]

where are you

[undone yacht]

Sweden

[outer reef]

lol

in the us i think it is a lot different

actually i am sure it is a lot different

[undone yacht]

not from what i have heard from colleagues. but sure, might be different in different fields and places

[outer reef]

in top institutions

like the very top few

i think it would be unheard of for someone to be admitted

without taking many graduate courses

or equivalent level of independent study work if they went to a liberal arts school or smth

at minimum

because enough people are doing this so as to completely saturate the number of slots available at the top few programs

the other way is to have an extremely strong research portfolio

which is like virtually impossible for undergrads

so i think the vast majority get admitted off of coursework and rec letters alone

[outer reef]

if only because most schools just dont have a deep enough course catalogue for undergrad math

[undone yacht]

Say 50 people apply to a spot, then at most two are viable applicants. Those two are viable at many places. Low accepance rates mean nothing. You can not imagine how many pointless applications that are submitted.

[outer reef]

i didnt say anything about low acceptance rates

i said the standards for admission

are effectively higher

[undone yacht]

[cn]

[outer reef]

ok lol

my source is i attend a top 5 phd program

and know people at all the others

and have talked to many many students and professors about this

and applied for grad school a lot more recently than you

[undone yacht]

I was in my first admission committe in 2008 so I have seen a few applications

[outer reef]

in sweden lol

[undone yacht]

and in us and in europe

[outer reef]

ok where in the us

also 2008 is too long ago

the competition ramped up in the ~5 years after the 2008 financial crisis

[pearl isle]

from what I understand 50 is like 10x or 20x underestimate

[outer reef]

because the govt gave money for sciences

[pearl isle]

of US PhD positions

[outer reef]

and then it dried up

[undone yacht]

that was just a number

[outer reef]

it was like 2 orders of magnitude off

[undone yacht]

whatever you do you, good luck

[outer reef]

i did me

im trying to paint a realistic picture for those who are still navigating this

the situation is a lot different outside of the top 20ish schools which i would guess is where your experience/second-hand information is coming from

but that was not the discussion topic

[undone yacht]

and relying on rankings... have you ever been part of doing those. it is a joke (eg QS)

[outer reef]

not literal rankings

but there is a general agreement about what the top few schools are

[cosmic magnet]

How difficult do you find the graduate course track at Berkeley? @pearl isle One of the professors I know is Berkeley alum and mentioned how the courses themselves weren't particularly difficult. It could be a bit biased since he's a control theorist and may have taken more engineering courses but he elaborated on how grad students there are effectively focused on research only and it's not as course centric

[outer reef]

i think you are taking the most uncharitable possible reading of what i wrote

and ignoring the several places where i explained the role of “prestige” in admissions

nobody is “relying” on rankings

[pearl isle]

I’ve only taken 3 (and I’m taking them this semester) and 2 are extremely hard, 1 is a free A bc the professor doesn’t want to grade anything

For context, the algebraic topology class I’m taking right now is the first level algebraic topology class, and is covering:

fundamental group, covering spaces, higher homotopy groups, fibrations, stable homotopy groups, singular/simplicial homology, cohomology rings, classification of principle g bundles, Morse inequalities, obstruction theory, characteristic classes

In the first fucking semester

Actually it’s pissing me off the class is hard to the point of being genuinely unfair

[shell kindle]

The graduate courses vary a lot in difficulty based on the instructor

[pearl isle]

Another class I’m taking is doing standard differential topology material but just like very fast & very very long homework’s. But I would say that one is fair at least just a frustrating amount of homework

[outer reef]

right the assumption is often that the grad students have seen things like that

because they select for that in admissions

which ofc makes things brutal for undergrads

[pearl isle]

I’ve seen a lot of that already

And despite that

It was still ridiculously hard

Is

I haven’t finished the final yet

[outer reef]

yeah i dont mean they did a good job calibrating the difficulty lol

[pearl isle]

Gotta speed learn characteristic classes

Idk this is just like Russian guy

Kinda my own fault for taking a grad class with a Russian

[shell kindle]

Givental?

[pearl isle]

Like I probably shouldn’t say something like that but it’s true

[outer reef]

yeah

i mean

[pearl isle]

Universally terrible expositors

Sadly

[outer reef]

no that is wrong

the problem is their standards are informed by their soviet education

[shell kindle]

At any rate, the applied math grad courses at berkeley are all pretty reasonable

[outer reef]

where students were selected from like age 10 to do math

[pearl isle]

Yeah despite that this guy is just genuinely bad at teaching

He doesn’t remember his own proofs, his board work is terrible, his explanation of everything is just really shitty pictures

And I like proof by picture normally!

[outer reef]

being good at math has no correlation with being good at teaching

[shell kindle]

It's giving wodzicki

[pearl isle]

Fun Wodzicki lore he is a polish count

Anyway most of the profs I’ve had at Berkeley have been great tbf

I did the funny thing where you convince yourself that the infamously bad professor is just hard not bad

And it turns out he’s actually just bad

Which is like mostly my own ego fault

[mossy niche]

i think thats the correct ballpark

the number i saw most often was 400

yeah

that would check out with my institution then

i recall brown saying they have 15 acceptances for 400 applications

oh thats what you mean

then yeah

[cosmic magnet]

Why are there so many people applying😭

[mossy niche]

no i think they have 15 offers

brown is a very small department

[cosmic magnet]

I'm talking about the increase from 2023-2024 to 2024-2025

It's a jump of 1500 applications for Natural Sciences (PhD)

[pearl isle]

The reason it’s so many is bc of international students

[cosmic magnet]

Master's admit rates are even worse

[pearl isle]

The US gets apps from every country on the planet

Which kinda sucks

[cosmic magnet]

I'm not getting into MS CS at Princeton💀

[pearl isle]

Dude before I get admitted I swear my views on immigration are harsher than Trump’s

After I get admitted then I’ll go back to being pro immigrant

[cosmic magnet]

That's a crazy opinion

[pearl isle]

IK it’s fucked up

But like until I see the green portals

[cosmic magnet]

Please accept my application Bernard Chazelle🫶

[pearl isle]

Build the wall

Is all I’m saying

Yeah

[slim wigeon]

green portals

[cosmic magnet]

It's too blackpilling. My GPA is already fricked so I stopped caring to check

[shell kindle]

Math gre has famously never helped anyone

[mossy niche]

its fun as long as you dont participate

its a comedy show

[pearl isle]

mathgre is like

my form of self harm

lmfao

[limpid zealot]

There's something oddly fascinating about seeing the mathgre site

[slim wigeon]

what site is that?

[cosmic magnet]

The less you know the better

[pearl isle]

it's like 4chan but for grad apps

[slim wigeon]

ok but which

am I supposed to know this

[hot wadi]

no

[limpid zealot]

not quite, it's not healthy to partake in that site admittedly

[tepid forum]

somehow it feels like >>50% phd students are intl though, they must just get funding elsewhere

[crisp yacht]

The 30000£ tuition fees are not very encouraging if you plan to self fund :D

[tropic plank]

I Studied for the math gre this term and it definitely was self harm 😭 and I got a 690 and wanted to do better 😭

[sturdy arch]

It’s still good :motivation emoji: don’t feel to bad about it

[tropic plank]

i just dont wanna take it again 😭

[cosmic magnet]

I'm going to take it next April in case I have to apply during the next cycle💀

[tropic plank]

Ik right me too 😭

[pearl isle]

I got a 720 and then took it again and got a 710 lmfao

It’s a hard test

You have to study for it a lot and I just didn’t have time

[sturdy arch]

Ufff doesn’t sound nice
I ll keep doing motivic homotopy instead

[sturdy arch]

Then it ll work for sure🙂

[mossy niche]

that test is only good at identifying innate mathematical problem solving talent under time pressure, so studying a lot for it might only improve your score a little. studying too much is worthless anyways

[tropic plank]

i didnt know it even existed till a month before the test date, and im currently in analysis and dont have to take complex analysis or topology for my school and and dont remember the calc and had a terrible calc 3 prof

[tropic plank]

then how do we improve at it?

i did a lot of research and i think the consensus is that it doesnt really test for anything important tbh

the first 40 questions i can do pretty easily

it was the ones after that that were like nooooo

[mossy niche]

luckily the complex analysis questions are always very similar

but i feel like not taking complex or topology is shooting yourself in the foot for graduate admissions, if you're thinking of applying

if you can do the first 40 questions pretty easily then you should be easily breaking 80 percentile

[pearl isle]

i only sorta agree - I think it's worth doing at least a month or so of studying

especially if you've forgotten stuff

like I had

[pallid haven]

It could be worse. I studied and got a 550. There are a lot of test optional schools (unless you are trying to go to a top program)

[tropic plank]

Well on the old practice tests I was getting over 40 right and on the scales score I was getting like 700s with percentile like 75% and then on the actual test I got a 690 which was 52% and I’m normally a good test taker 😭

[tropic plank]

I was like non stop studying but I think I overworked myself and then I was so tired by the test. Plus I ran out of one of my medicines and had a 2 week headache because of it 😭

[tropic plank]

Eh I’m not trying to I don’t like the competition

I’m applying to cuny grad center, nyu and Rutgers

I live in the New York area

[tropic plank]

We have April to improve 😭

[mossy niche]

i was more meaning 40 on the current exam

i could only do half the exam myself

the exam is getting harder, and since less people are taking it, usually the people who are still taking it tend to be higher percentile leaning since they have prepared. as the exam is no longer required, the skill will rise across the board so it means higher difficulty to get a good percentile

[cosmic magnet]

oh, Rutgers is really good

What are you applying there for?

[tropic plank]

I did the 2 practice tests of the current exams they released. I didn’t do any tests before they changed it in like the 90s or whatever

[tropic plank]

Idk yet

I just wanna learn more math

I would do a masters program but I have no way to get it funded

I think I have a good chance getting in the cuny grad center tho bc I go to cuny and know some professor who work there

[pallid haven]

Some places fund masters, especially if it’s the highest degree they offer

[mossy niche]

i still think those are easier than the actual exam

[tropic plank]

They have a lot of different areas of specialty at the grad center

[mossy niche]

I'm a horrid test taker so that has also to do with it

[tropic plank]

Booo but those are the tests they posted 😭 and they only have like 3 which is crazy

[mossy niche]

cuny is good but they require both GRE scores

[tropic plank]

They post one like every 10 years

[tropic plank]

Yea I took the regular one that was easy

I mean the English was hard af but I don’t think they care that much

[pallid haven]

I scored much better in the practice too, but they also came from prep books published prior to 2020

[mossy niche]

that's actually the score that matters more for math phd

[pallid haven]

Vocab flash cards helped me a lot. I’ve heard most schools don’t care much about verbal

[mossy niche]

most schools don't care about the general GRE in general

[tropic plank]

Is a 160 good?

[mossy niche]

if you submit it they usually care about a good English score because their assumption is everyone gets a good quant score

[tropic plank]

😞

[mossy niche]

i have no clue

i never took it but the multiple grad panels I attended emphasized this about the general gre

[tropic plank]

I am a first gen college student and I literally know nothing lol

Like I didn’t even know these tests existed

Like u said Rutgers was good and I’m like oop I just heard it existed a month ago 😭

If I don’t get into grad school I’m gonna apply for the cuny pipeline program to help me out

[pallid haven]

The entire process is complicated. Figuring out even basic things like what tier of school you should be applying to is more difficult than I expected

[tacit lark]

it can be difficult to navigate

[tropic plank]

I don’t even know the tiers 😭

[glossy river]

There's a few tiers people could be referring to, but it's usually like Top N in some university ranking websites, or this tier system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

[tacit lark]

Its not black and white. The specific subfield of math you’re interested in matters.

Even then it’s not obvious. How do you compare schools with one very good faculty member in your area to a school with 3 good faculty in your area.

Most people have a rough idea.

[tropic plank]

What if I don’t know yet 😭

[shell kindle]

Usually if you don't know what type of math you like, it's recommended that you go to a large institution

[tropic plank]

Oh all the ones I applied to is r1 I guess that is good

[tropic plank]

Well good 😊

[void horizon]

@inner grove did you have to take the gre when you applied to phd programs? i know you already had a masters when you were applying

[torpid temple]

I am applying to UCB gradschool and the application page is asking for a SoP and a personal history. I am not sure what to write in the personal history. It's asking for personal struggles, issues on racial or gender inequality, and stuff like that

The problem is I am a middle class Asian male, and these characteristics are overrepresented in STEM. I have nothing to write that doesn't seem overdramatic and maudlin.

[pearl isle]

I agree (and have heard myself) not to write about struggles you don't have

from what I understand - those lists there are just suggestions, at least for berkeley's statement

the prompt of the personal statement itself

is just to describe some formative experiences that have created your interest in math

some suggestions: show off your passion. Talk about times you've independently studied math on your own, talk about work you've done to share that passion with others (volunteering?) - make the committee see you basically nerding out about math

if you do this be careful not to do the thing everyone does "when I was 5 I liked numbers". More recent = better, they honestly don't care about you when you were five

alternatively, you can talk about how you used your situation to help others. EG: as a privileged white male, I talked about my extensive teaching history

I talked about my teaching philosophy and gave specific examples

I didn't frame it explicitly as "using my privilege to help others"

bc that just is hard to make it sound good

but that is a place to put stuff like that

[torpid temple]

Wow those are great suggestions. I'm just gonna do a mix of those. Thanks!

[pearl isle]

np!

[shell kindle]

It does matter

But different schools weight it differently

[visual lagoon]

I think pretty much everyone has something in their background that makes them "nonstandard"

[visual lagoon]

I agree, I would imagine they also want something that gives them an idea of the type of person you will be upon attending the school. Will you be a hermit that doesn't talk to anyone?

[pearl isle]

Yep. Though secretly I agree with Andrew

I don’t really think Math professors are on average the type of professor to give a shit about diversity statements

Maybe Berkeley professors specifically do

But in general I think it probably isn’t getting read lol

I mean there’s a lot of old fashioned math professors

And non American ones

No not really

I would say that like a lot of the old farts on admissions committees aren’t bigoted but also aren’t progressive enough to like things like diversity statements

That’s kinda vibes based though

The other thing is tbh, once you start doing grad level math the diversity statistics are pretty bad lmfao - so it’s like while it can probably help you, you honestly don’t have that much competition who has better diversity statements than you even if your statement isn’t that good

It’s like if everyone is either a rich domestic white male or a rich international student no one’s diversity statement is very good so it’s not gonna hurt you too much if yours isn’t either

No idea actually

Probably most of the top places are trying to promote diversity

I don’t think white males per se

But also rich international students

I guess you can count them as diverse if you want lol

No one is looking at your parents income sheets

No idea

I also didn’t mention it on any of my apps

[tropic plank]

I’m a poor first gen female student 😂 so my diversity statement is gonna knock socks off

[pearl isle]

Nice

[pearl isle]

Doesn’t surprise me at all

[shell kindle]

That’s also Yale….

[cosmic magnet]

How late (after the deadline) do programs accept LOR's from professors?

I'll be submitting my apps due on the 15th soon enough but I think one the letters will be sent a few days after the deadline

[shell kindle]

They should not be too late

[molten frigate]

yeah the exact deadline can vary from place to place

but it's usually a few days after your application is submitted

[cosmic magnet]

Got it. The professor mentioned they're going to get them sent before Christmas but I'm hoping they're able to get them done earlier by the 19th/20th latest

[prime robin]

is the ddl of recommendation letter which the letter provider received the same as the application ddl ?

[gentle basin]

i've been lurking this channel for a bit but now that i'm in my third year i think it's worth asking: what would be my best course of action to be grad school viable?

• very high GPA, double majoring in appmath + piano; relevant bc this severely constrains my course options
• coursework besides irrelevant lower divs like calculus, computational linalg (we didn't even get past diagonalization 😭): basic discrete math for CS, combinatorics, elementary NT (no abs alg), probability theory, mathematical stats (ie a theoretical approach rather than purely computational), real analysis I (ch1-4 of rudin)
• planning to take real analysis II (a few more chapters of rudin?), numerical methods, + abs alg or ML
• no relevant research experience
• don't really have a good handle yet on what my specific research interests would be
• extensive experience writing problems for high school level math contest (difficulty comparable to AMC 10/12)

sry if this is overly generic/insufficiently detailed but any advice would be appreciated, many thanks in advance

[pearl isle]

Do you want to do applied or pure

I would say if applied: try to get in a lab somewhere, do some coding projects & take coding classes

If pure: take as many upper div & graduate classes as you can

Apply for REUs this summer

Actually you should do that whether you’re pure or applied

[urban crown]

I have just started ny final year of UG. Can I still apply for grad?

Like there are international scholarship in Italy

[pearl isle]

You have 4 days for this app cycle at some places

Some places deadlines have passed and a few you have 2 days

Can you apply - if you already have letters, possibly

But the timing is very tight

[cosmic magnet]

some places have deadlines in january so those are possible

[spring portal]

europe deadlines would come in pretty late

US is probably not possible now (especially the top programs), many deadlines have passed or would pass on the 15th.

[spring portal]

check with each program

some would have same deadline, some would give 1-2 week of wiggle room

[soft narwhal]

what's the difference between a princeton senior thesis and a uk/commonwealth honours year thesis

[urban crown]

Well the deadline for me is upto june 2025

(it shows 25 june 2025)

[hardy aurora]

If you are applying to EU, I'm not sure about countries other than the UK, but you may want to look at the funding deadlines

[eternal hill]

Someone said they got admitted into Texas A&M two years ago even though they didn't submit a mgre. Do y'all think it's worth a shot if I also don't have it? The program would be a good fit for me...

[paper granite]

UK deadlines are usually between the end of the month and the middle of January and European deadlines are typically a bit later around like April or may so if you want to stay in Europe you definitely can

I think I’m probably applying in the April batch now so I can get my semester 1 results back and maybe submit my UG thesis too

[urban crown]

https://scholarshiproar.com/italian-government-scholarships/?amp
In particular i am talking about this. They are offering 900 eru per month as well

[paper granite]

Funding might have passed, I had to apply for a scholarship in Berlin by like 2 weeks ago

[urban crown]

Oh I see, I am checking this scholarship as well (sent the link above).

[paper granite]

Their normal application deadline is like April but for funding it was early December, so you might need to be careful of that

[urban crown]

My UG will complete like in November or December

[paper granite]

If you’re planning to start the summer semester than ignore most of what I said, your deadlines will be roughly now

Was assuming you’d be looking to start in the autumn/winter semester next year