graduate-applications

[undone yacht]

personally i would be very pissed of if anybody did this to me

[warm inlet]

I'll try to be upfront about the other applications and see if he gives me more time

[undone yacht]

but again i do not know your circumstances so maybe this works out wekll

[smoky jetty]

having finals at the same time as grad apps are due sucks

why is my manifolds final on the same day as the due date of like 6 schools I'm applying to

🙃

[waxen spire]

Felt

[smoky jetty]

I just submitted a bunch

Back to the finals grind

[waxen spire]

Good luck for all the schools that are in the complement of the intersection of schools we are applying to

[smoky jetty]

lmao

[calm relic]

Oh man, my gpa from the last 2 years is a lot closer to 80% than I thought

Here's hoping my profs from this term get my grades up quickly so I can use those marks instead

[gilded mulch]

Okay so how is a GPA around 4.0 seen for MS thesis applications in German schools for pure math? Speaking for international students.

Especially Bonn

[shell kindle]

Well it can't be much higher can it

[gilded mulch]

Like, out of a scaling of 5 though

Some programs I heard only accept you if you are above 4.25 or sth

Programs with full funding I mean. Is this true?

[gilded mulch]

in hindsight idk if it's the right channel to ask this question

pardon this undergrad human being for trespassing into graduate territory

[shell kindle]

?

You're applying for a masters program no?

[gilded mulch]

Yea but I got jitters thinking this was only for PhD applicants. I am just a nervous wreck atm don't mind me pls

[worthy apex]

Discussion of applications to graduate (masters/PhD) programs in mathematics, as well as postgrad/fellowship/grant apps. Discussion around applications to undergraduate programs does not belong here.

You're fine

[thorny geyser]

Only thesis? It probably does not matter too much. Just contact the professors.

For a full masters, it also does not matter very much. What matters in German universities is that your undergraduate curriculum is very close to that of a German mathematics bachelor. If the discrepancy is too big, you are rejected independent of grades.

To check this, I suggest consulting German math BSc module handbooks or study plans. One remark is that in Germany, mathematicians do not have calculus. They start with real analysis in the first semester and after 3 or so years are at a quite advanced level. At that point most undergrads had real analysis 1-2, complex analysis, functional analysis, linear algebra 1-2 and algebra as core courses. Additionally they choose specialisation courses.

For reference I am German. I did not do a math bachelor, but some of my colleagues did.

[gilded mulch]

Okay, thanks 👍

[gilded mulch]

Oh alright I'll check those out. It sounds similar to my own curriculum thankfully.

By when do you think they accept MS thesis applications?

A semester before the thesis year?

[thorny geyser]

Semester before start is probably a good time yeah. Thesis in Germany can start very ‚spontaneously‘, but if you’re from far away, you will need time for planning accommodation, finances etc

[gilded mulch]

Yea fair

Thanks!

[granite marsh]

For Bonn in particular, note that they will give out early acceptance for next years fall/winter term if you apply by the Jan 15th deadline

If you didn’t know already

Early here meaning around March I believe

So if you’re applying to NA schools too you could compare offers

[misty spindle]

To what extent will gpa impact your grad app? Let's say a 3.5 (11) vs 3.7 (9) vs 3.9 (5).

*(x) means x number of grad courses

[outer reef]

what

having a 3.5 gpa in grad courses is a huge red flag i would think

as it indicates you got like the worst possible grade

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah I mean are you getting As in the grad courses?

[outer reef]

in 6 graduate courses

[misty spindle]

took a grad complex analysis in first sem of my school year and will likely get a b+

and I suspect this trend might continue

[main marlin]

Probably not, post prelim grad courses typically grade lightly

[outer reef]

stop taking grad courses then

or idk study harder

[outer reef]

which the admissions committee will know, and they will calibrate accordingly

[shell kindle]

For grad courses, getting a B- is the equivalent of failing

[grand palm]

Some schools grade grad classes harsher on undergrads

or I heard so

[torpid echo]

I feel like when that happens it’s usually because the grading policy for the grad students is “if you show up you get an A”

And sometimes the showing up part is optional

[shell kindle]

Grad programs generally require a 3.0 GPA to remain in good academic standing

[gilded mulch]

Ah right, makes sense. Thanks.

[hexed ibex]

Anything above class average is A in first year grad courses
average is like 70 something

After those pretty much everyone gets A on everything

Here there’s no B-. I’ve never heard of people getting C’s

[tacit lark]

The same way you deal w other anxiety

[vast oriole]

does this apply to unis like tu munich as well? as they seem to have some 'scoring system', where you get a score out of 100 based on i) Subtracting points for essential courses you did not have, ii) Adding points for anything below a 3 (Lower grade better in Germany as I understand) and finally, iii) adding points based on SOP/Motivation letter
and then when you get a certain threshold score, you are instant admit, in certain range, first do interview, below that, instant reject?

is the interview for the 'intermediate range' considered as very competitive/hard, or more a check to be sure you have the required knowledge and mental?

[thorny geyser]

well yes, it is similar. The most important factor is that the courses fit. If the discrepancy is not very big, you get "Auflagen". That is courses from the TUM bachelors you have to repeat, up to 30 ECTS. If the discrepancy is big, it is a reject.

[thorny geyser]

i do not know about the interview. But if it is just an interview, it shouldnt be too hard.

let me see if i can get the Prüfungsordnung. Is it TUM math master?

this is what they request you to have, or at least 36 ECTS of this selection:

https://www.tum.de/fileadmin/user_upload_87/gi32rab/Mathematik_MA_Neufassung_17082023.pdf

[vast oriole]

yeah physics or math

oh it seems there is a more detailed description in german!

[thorny geyser]

yes, see "Anlage 2" of this document

[vast oriole]

or actually nevermind I think just the math program gives more details compared to the physics one : )

as physics it says 'Applicants reaching at least 66 points have passed the selection procedure. '
'Applicants reaching less than 55 points will not be accepted '

and then
'The remaining applicants come to the second stage, which is performed in the form of an interview (ca. 30 minutes). Based on this, our admission board decides if the applicant would be able to successfully complete our Master's degree program. The topics of the interview are your motivation to come to study to our department, physics-related questions within our academic requirements and your understanding of your admission situation.'

so I guess indeed there's not that much to worry about, especially as the motivation letter should probably be able to get 10 points as well

anyway, thank you! Now I am not discouraged anymore from applying : ) , and I'll check out the math program as well

[thorny geyser]

keep in mind you also need german language certificate afaik

[vast oriole]

yeah indeed, I've already reached B2 cert but still need to take C1, thanks for the reminder!

[smoky jetty]

For schools with deadlines after Fall grades come out

I presume they want fall grades sure

but for things like lists of coursework

should I include courses I am taking in the spring as in progress?

Specifically this is for schools with deadlines of Jan 1 which is after final grades come out for this last fall semester but before the next winter semester starts

[smoky jetty]

Also anyone else applying to Waterloo for a masters

I see no spots to add a personal statement or even a CV

this is specifically about the MMath with thesis in the combinatorics department

[rocky dome]

How specific with interests is one meant to be for phd applications to a specific advisor (in Europe, say) oof

I fear I am giving too many interests

[tough ice]

I applied Waterloo for a phd. After I submitted my application, Waterloo sent me an email with account and links. Waterloo let me to upload CV and SoP at that link. I think that link is https://uwaterloo.ca/quest/

[civic gull]

a few schools i applied to have a similar thing where you upload documents after applying. it's a little odd

[smoky jetty]

Oh bruh

That's not clear at all

[neat heron]

.

[civic gull]

what do you mean

where are you listing these

[smoky jetty]

Some schools ask for a list of course work and their textbooks

[civic gull]

i believe they usually ask about everything before you go to the grad program

so i would include it unless otherwise stated

[smoky jetty]

Ok so I'll include my spring semester courses, thanks

[cold tiger]

Oxford and Cambridge have some, but it's hell competitive

Other than that, there are some PhD tracks iirc, but idk if that also has scholarships for Masters. Funding MSc in UK is always a pain.

[main marlin]

Would it make sense to put technical papers I've written on my GitHub as a part of my portfolio?

That is, papers I haven't published but wrote for classes.

[outer reef]

idt anyone will read it anyway so why not

well ok

if theyre good then why not

[smoky jetty]

Uhhhhh wrote for classes? I guess it depends but idk if I've ever seen that

[main marlin]

I specifically mean a paper I wrote on Qubes OS.

It would demonstrate technical knowledge of operating systems.

[outer reef]

what

maybe ask on a computer science server

as the emphasis on research etc. in CS phd admissions is quite different from math, from what i understand

[main marlin]

It would be for industry jobs.

[outer reef]

..

#graduate-applications

[main marlin]

I'm sorry if this keeps getting weirder. 😅

ok

I'll go.

[tacit lark]

Ive seen expository papers and notes on websites.

[sonic surge]

when is earliest to hear back for US phd apps

i realize i dont actually know when to expect to hear back from anyone, i just kind of assumed it was april-may and idk if thats correct

plz ping w/response ty in advance

[shell kindle]

You should hear back by april 15

Most notify by late march

[crimson valve]

if u get admitted early its like jan or feb when you should expect

otherwise it means you are on waitlist

and you gotta wait till april 15 to see if they have u

[torpid echo]

I think I heard the majority of stuff like, late Feb - early March

[sonic surge]

thank you all friends

[grand palm]

The waiting game. Not fun.

[calm relic]

I'm trying to write my application statements, and I'm making a lot more progress than I honestly expected from myself

But I'm trying to close it off with "why I'm applying here", and struggling since the university with the closest deadline is also the one at the bottom of my list

Not asking for help, just complaining for fun

[granite marsh]

Yeah that’s always the hardest part

I mostly just mentioned particular profs whose research looked interesting, but felt like I could’ve done better.

[smoky jetty]

I mention stuff like that

but there are other things that are important to me

A large number of student seminars (as well as normal seminars)

some semblence of student social activities

I talked some about that

[smoky jetty]

this one dumb gen ed is dragging down my GPA

I didn't realize my uni counted the GPA from transferred in courses

[weary acorn]

I am in a similar boat with one specific class from ages ago lmao

[grand palm]

Major GPA >> Cumulative GPA.

[smoky jetty]

I kinda tanked the class on purpose

since I was like "surely they don't transfer GPA, just the credit"

stupid past me

[granite marsh]

I doubt admissions will care, it’s not even a math course sounds like

Wouldn’t worry about it

[smoky jetty]

yea I'm not worried really

my GPA isn't perfect but it's high that's what matters

[granite marsh]

Yeah

[smoky jetty]

actually hm what is my major GPA I should calculate that

[granite marsh]

The issue is that once you’ve sent in your apps you’ve got nothing left to do but wait

[smoky jetty]

Simply send your applications in later

wait less time

👍

[granite marsh]

That’s my plan

I’m only sending in apps on the deadline

[smoky jetty]

I forget where I read this but one of my favorite quotes (maybe it wasn't even about math) went along the lines of "Mathematics takes a lifetime to learn. So the sooner you start the longer it takes"

honestly banger of a quote

[smoky jetty]

oh it's not even that bad

agh if only I remembered Zorn's Lemma on that one final 😔

[granite marsh]

😔

[smoky jetty]

nah regardless of when the apps are due

I'm sending them in on the 1st or 2nd of Jan

get this shit over with

relax for the rest of my break

[granite marsh]

I just have a hard time specializing SoP’s for schools so I need the deadline pressure

[smoky jetty]

Yea same

[granite marsh]

Thankfully my deadlines are very spread out

[smoky jetty]

I drafted all of the rest of mine that were due (except Waterloo) a few days ago

tomorrow I'm going to give all of them a pass again

[vestal swan]

my first two years severely tanked my GPA 😔

we vibe though

[granite marsh]

If you’re applying to Waterloo then it’s even less relevant actually as irc, Canadian schools only look at last 2 years

[smoky jetty]

for all the schools I've been applying to

alot of them have been asking about what other schools I'm applying to

I've been leaving it blank

that doesn't affect things right?

[granite marsh]

Likely not

I doubt the people making decisions actually care about that part

I think it’s more used to get an idea of who applies where etc

[umbral escarp]

Do we have any fine gentlemen (or ladies) here pursuing a master's at any of the following establishments: Bonn, Wuerzburg, Augsburg, LMU, TUM, KIT, Heidelberg, Kaiserslautern?

[outer reef]

(or ladies)

[granite marsh]

I think I’m gonna apply to Bonn

against wisdom

[umbral escarp]

Mind a DM?

[granite marsh]

Sure

[umbral escarp]

Statistically it's overwhelmingly likely to be gentlemen.

[outer reef]

wow who knew

[visual lagoon]

And sidelining female or nonbinary mathematicians perpetuates this. Please don't use gender-biased language on this server.

[umbral escarp]

How exactly am I sidelining anyone by stating a fact (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.07824.pdf) ? If you take issue with the qualifier "overwhelmingly", that can be amended.

[smoky jetty]

saying (and ladies) like that whole group is an afterthought is sidelining

saying gentlemen (and ladies) sidelines non-binary people

[umbral escarp]

That was a joking reference to the overrepresentation of men and underrepresentation of women in mathematics. Are we going to pretend that is not the case?

[smoky jetty]

and part of the reason for that overrepresentation is language like that

but this is not the channel to argue (nor do I want to argue)

[umbral escarp]

Do you truly believe that (I am curious)? No need to argue for/against, just yes or no.

[smoky jetty]

yes

[visual lagoon]

Yes

Which is why I'm telling you it's not appropriate on this server

[silk sapphire]

Can I also ask questions about internships here ?

[silk sapphire]

I'm a math/CS double major (France) in my 3rd year and as such need to write a memoir for the math degree, and complete a 2 month long internship this summer for my CS degree
Is it normal that the subjects look really daunting ?
For example, there was an interesting topic regarding a society simulating model, which is a 4 variable system of diff eqs with some nontrivial formulas, introduced in 2014, and the researcher that would assist me is an expert in dynamical systems, has already written a very comprehensive paper analyzing the different asymptotic behaviors.
How am I supposed to add to that (supposedly by further finding the border between the different scenarios) when he's already done so much work, knowing that I only know basic diff eqs (if it's not linear I don't know any theory, basically) and nothing on dynamical systems ?

Yet he submitted the topic, so is it fair to assume I'd be able to contribute something ? That I could learn enough theory on the side, for my memoir, to be able to do something he hasn't already done, in half a year ?
Because a lot of the topics are like that

Tl;DR: is it normal to find the internship topics really scary and advanced as an undergraduate, and is it reasonable to do one in a field one knows almost nothing about ? (I get the big picture of his paper, from which I should probably base my work, but not all the finer details, and definitely wouldn't know how to do it myself)

[shadow bobcat]

This fits more in #advanced-lounge imo

[smoky jetty]

yes this is normal but also #advanced-lounge

[smoky jetty]

Submitted all but two of my apps

the other two apps I'm waiting on things out of my control (Waterloo QUEST info + Colorado State fee waiver)

[waxen spire]

@smoky jetty Best of luck, I have a few in January

[smoky jetty]

I'm just getting them over with lol

All of mine are technically due Jan 1st and 15th but fuck it I don't want to think about them anymore

[waxen spire]

Valid

I'm only applying to... 3 more after this probably

Maybe should have applied to more, but fees

[waxen spire]

I feel this, but I also want to spend the time making sure my materials are good

[grand wyvern]

i have one left due on the 15th (UVa)... it's going to take all of my power to not procrastinate it until january 12th-14th

[smoky jetty]

I submitted a bunch of stuff on Dec 15th

So all my materials are good from then so that work is done

I also hate writing

So I have a ceiling on how many edits I can manage

At this point the only stuff that's changing about my statements are "why this school"

Every other paragraph is pretty set

[waxen spire]

Ok tbf this is also all I’m doing lmao

[smoky jetty]

And not like my CV or transcripts are changing

[waxen spire]

My transcript changed because grades were being submitted on the 15th and 16th

Grumble

[smoky jetty]

and rn I value losing the mental strain more than fussing over 1-2 particular choices of words

[smoky jetty]

Ah my last final was the 15th so all my apps due then didn't show my fall grades

I wish they did, my GPA slightly went up and I did better than expected

[granite marsh]

Pretty much same, except I didn’t mention one of my interests in the opening paragraph at some schools as it is (currently) a bit niche

[smoky jetty]

Makes sense

[waxen spire]

Only other change for me is like

Schools giving a bullet point list of things you can talk about on your statement

[smoky jetty]

Oh I'm barely paying attention to that

Because it's all the same

[waxen spire]

Same here

[weary acorn]

I read it but most of the time what I have at this point already touches on each bullet.

[waxen spire]

But if there’s something that sticks out (that applies to me), I’ll mention it

[smoky jetty]

What are you interested in, why this school, what prior research do you have, what other stuff have you done, maybe courses

[waxen spire]

Yeah like all that is already in there

This particular one basically asks “what extracirriculars are you interested in in the department” (grad student seminars, mentoring, etc)

[smoky jetty]

I've put that into my 'why this school' stuff anyways

[waxen spire]

Yeah that makes sense

Some schools simply don’t have that kind of info online tho

Though maybe I just didn’t look in the right spot shrug

[smoky jetty]

?

I mean most schools have a public facing seminar calendar

and then prof pages advertise seminars + conferences they run

[waxen spire]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

But also

Dog its 1 aM

[smoky jetty]

Finished my waterloo app

now I am one fee waiver away from having all my apps done

I wish more schools gave fee waivers for REU participation

[weary acorn]

Fee waivers are so

[slender dune]

How much does REU experience contribute to grad school admissions?

[tacit lark]

Depends

Just doing an reu doesnt necessarily help

[smoky jetty]

It can get you a good rec letter

That's always helpful

[granite marsh]

LSGNT doesn’t have an application fee!!!!

Very welcome surprise

[main nebula]

almost nowhere in the UK does for research courses

[granite marsh]

Interesting

Is this also true for European PhD’s in general? It would make sense I suppose as I’ve heard they are treated more similarly to a more traditional full time job in a sense when compared to NA.

[raw quail]

I noticed Vienna didn't ask for letters of recc for the masters program, is this common in european applications?

[candid quarry]

Yes

[granite marsh]

Copenhagen is similar, though Utrecht and Bonn DO ask for lor’s (I should note that it seems in general European programs ask for less lor’s than NA ones as only seen them ask for 1 or 2)

[undone yacht]

Extremely rare in Sweden to ask for LOR (but it does unfortunately exist for a few programs)

[main nebula]

why is it unfortunate?

[undone yacht]

because the whole LOR system is flawed and a huge waste of resources

[tall token]

what is a better way, grades?

[raw quail]

yeah I think this is just a lose-lose situation all regardless of how you approach it

[undone yacht]

grades and other experiences and factors to weed out 90% (or whatever appropriate percentage), then ask the references supplied

[smoky jetty]

so not LOR, just R?

[undone yacht]

yes (I actually only know of one M.Sc. program in CS in Sweden that asks for a LOR). It is practically non-existent at any level (M.Sc., Ph.D.,PostDoc,Prof)

[smoky jetty]

But then isn't that much more back and forth communication when the contact-reference stage occurs?

Rather than just having all that info in the letter?

[torn heart]

How do you compare grades for the same courses coming from institutions of vastly different background?

[undone yacht]

no, just a check that applicant is reasonable (and did not just add a random name)

[smoky jetty]

aka the info in a letter of rec

Unless I'm not understanding

[undone yacht]

It is very clear what candidates are good and which are not, at least it has been when I have been in search committees.

[undone yacht]

It is a huge waste of time for profs to write all these letters. Instead of late in the hiring process a phonecall of 3 mins

[smoky jetty]

Because it sounds like instead of the search committee having a letter of rec up front, the committee now has to reach out to profs who now have to make time for a call from potentially all these schools

[undone yacht]

Like we are talking 70% are really really bad

[smoky jetty]

hm I guess that in my head writing a letter takes less time than fielding a bunch of calls

I of course have never done either so I can't say which takes more or less time

[smoky jetty]

Bad how?

If you can say

[undone yacht]

I have been in committees for PhD student searches, and then it is for hiring 1-5 people. Say you have a few hundred applications. It is very obvious which 10-15 are viable

[smoky jetty]

Obvious how?

Are we talking just like bad grades or something more

[undone yacht]

people writing generic letters in general are pretty much dumped right away, and it is very very common

you se they spam the same stuff just hoping it will stick somewhere

[torn heart]

“Obvious” and “clear” are words we should be careful of using as mathematicians. It is not as straightforward as you make it seem. Say for example a place like Harvard, the majority of students of applying for their PhD have near perfect grades and on paper succeed in every manner. Most of these students come from top tier institutions, so even then, comparing grades is not useful.

Mathematics, like many professional endeavors, is a social one. What other mathematicians can say about you and your work holds much more weight than metrics on grades and exams

[smoky jetty]

What does a generic letter mean? And when you say letter you mean the applicant's personal statement right, not letter of rec?

[undone yacht]

that is typically shown by other things than grades then. try look at a LOR written by a US prof and a EU prof. you would 99% of time think the EU prof hates the student since they "never" write ovewhelmingly parises like US writers typically do

[undone yacht]

i meant application, sorry

[torn heart]

Well then it’s an issue of the EU academic culture, not the concept of LoRs in general

[smoky jetty]

not as much an issue as just difference in culture

[undone yacht]

issue? I would say grade inflation and nonsense LOR in US is the problem.

[smoky jetty]

I've heard of that difference though

It's interesting

[torn heart]

Issue as in issue with what we are talking about now I mean, not issue as in problem

[torn heart]

No, consider someone who took Algebraic Topology with peter may at UChicago and got an A vs someone who took algebraic topology at some Nebraska state university and got an A. The latter might be just as strong as the former, but you can not directly tell by grades. You can be sure the former is a strong student because of UChicago’s rigorous undergraduate culture, for the latter you need something more to discern their ability, aka, a LoR

[smoky jetty]

What does generic mean in the context of the application?

[undone yacht]

The name of the reference obviously matter.

[torn heart]

But sometimes you want to go beyond the name. Some student at a random university might not have the most well known professors, but nevertheless their professors might be able to tell that this student is extremely strong beyond their cohort. Sometimes you have to see what is being said not just who.

[undone yacht]

not tailored for the institution, very often not tailored for the position in question (we often have positions with a specific project)

[shadow bobcat]

Most profs that I've met say they write like one letter per person and just send the letter to every school so I don't see how that's really a waste of time

[undone yacht]

then people can explain the "same thing" in the application, "I worked with XXX, famous for their work in YYYY,..."

[smoky jetty]

Hm interesting. My statement was kind of the same for each school when talking about what math I was interested and my background. I did have a paragraph or two though about what specifically I liked about each school (labs, profs, etc). Hopefully that's not seen as generic but we'll see once grad school results come in for me.

[undone yacht]

It takeds a lot of time to write that one letter. Everybody I know in the US hates the whole thing

I am just happy I don't have to write any (written 3, 2 for abroad and one to the previously mentioned CS program) 🙂

[torn heart]

My experience is quite different than yours. All the conversations I’ve had with professors in the UK and US about the admission process described to me the strongest and best indicator of a student’s ability and success is the LoR. Grades/GREs/personal statements are one level lower

[undone yacht]

I have not asked for a LOR every

[gleaming fjord]

The whole recommendation system is perpetuating one thing though, that is pedigree will lead to pedigree. Because well known professor will go to high rank schools, and only students at those schools would get those letters

Then those students are more likely to go to high rank programs with those letters

And they will eventually fill up the spots in high rank academia

[shadow bobcat]

I don't fully agree with this anymore tbh I think you see more and more people from top top schools going to mid tier schools because they can't jobs at top top schools anymore

[undone yacht]

I am in a assistant prof slack of thousands of people, and it is very common complaint

[gleaming fjord]

It is not 100% that way but it does happen a lot

[torn heart]

I guess it depends on the institution and country then

[gleaming fjord]

Another thing about pedigree is that your grades at higher rank schools are considered to be “superior” than less well known schools

Some said that it is because they are more “familiar” with how rigorous the high rank schools education are

I wish it won’t continue that way but sadly it does

At least for the US PhD application

[smoky jetty]

You know what I learned about recently

These forms

https://fxtwitter.com/indygupta/status/1737313719946743941

[undone yacht]

Yes, many people in search committees are very prestige-focused. They consider it a "safe bet" since they can always say "they did a MSc at Cambridge, how could we know they were bad?"

[smoky jetty]

I had no idea that schools (at least in the US) ask reference writers to fill these out

[undone yacht]

why would anybody write a LOR for anybody being weak or very weak? 😛

[gleaming fjord]

That is very unfortunate

I even heard that international students have higher bars than domestic ones

[undone yacht]

definitely true

but that is also pretty natural, if somebody has attended a university you know about in the same country you, then that easier to evaluate than somebody from an unknown (but better in "objective" terms) university in another country. search committee will not google every applicant in detail

[smoky jetty]

https://fxtwitter.com/sarielhp/status/1737338073577402392?

[gleaming fjord]

So if an international student attended a domestic uni, then how would they be compared to domestic ones?

[smoky jetty]

This is true even for UG admissions as far as I know

[gleaming fjord]

I am curious about the bars is for the uni they went to or just the country they are from

[undone yacht]

for me personally i first look at the letter and content, what they have worked on before. then, after removing the "bad" ones i looked up the places they have attended since it was many places I had not heard of, e.g. Turkey, Iran, India. I then asked people from those countries their opinion of the places (it was all highly ranked places, so all fine, then did not matter for me after that stage).

what other people do, no idea

[gleaming fjord]

Thank you for sharing these. It is very interesting that everyone has their own approach!

[cold tiger]

it's a long way from high rank programs to high rank academia. Surely the name gives you a headstart, but it's not the end of the story.

I am no one to say, but from what I know, what matters more at that point is your research, publications, conference attendance, network, bla bla. Degree matters very little

[cold tiger]

It's dumb, but that's a decent way to know someone beyond numbers (unless you can interview all applicants), cus profs know more than everyone that grades are not everything. At least in EU, afaik, you don't need to study at some big institutions to work with someone and eventually get LoR from them (though the name definitely helps, I won't deny that).

Many profs are super elitist and will say no, but not everyone is like that. Many graduated from, for the lack of a better word, unknown unis, and they are willing to help those who are in the same situation.

[cold tiger]

It's also because courses on the same subject at different unis might be of different depth. Imagine comparing the same grade at Princeton vs some other lower ranked uni.

[cold tiger]

If only there were enough places for everyone, and if only everyone's career path were linear, but sadly this is the world we have to deal with

[cold tiger]

International students' struggles are an endless topic

[cedar lantern]

That may mean that not everyone at a high rank school to high rank academia, but it doesn't mean that not everyone in high rank academia was at a high rank school.

(Not that I know either way.)

[cold tiger]

cough June Huh cough

[outer reef]

how is june huh relevant at all

he did undergrad at one of the top 3 universities in korea, where he was mentored by a fields medal winner

subsequently he attended a top20 phd program in the US

[outer reef]

surely you recognize that a given phd student's ability to generate these things (say except conference attendance) is highly correlated with the prestige of their graduate program

however it is true that recommendation letters from well-known professors are quite overrated

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah June Huh went to a pretty good PhD program at UIUC before transferring to one of the best with Michigan

[smoky jetty]

June Huh was at UIUC?

I feel like I should have known that, being at UIUC >_>

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah that's where he started lol I think after he solved Read's conjecture he moved to Michigan

[dull sonnet]

Apologies if this skews away from the current conversation, but I'm looking for some advice. I'm an undergraduate currently pursuing an Applied Math/CS BSc and have a 2.8 GPA. I have about 2 years left to complete my degree. How feasible is to get into a decent PhD program for pure mathematics? I saw above that some places only look at the best or last 2 years. So I was thinking: What can I do to turn things around? Is turning my GPA to its head enough or are there other things I need to make sure to do?

I phrased that last question terribly
**Beyond just turning my GPA around, what else must I do to reach my goal?

[smoky jetty]

Taking pure mathematics courses

So idk how much of your applied math degree covers this, but 2 courses in analysis and 2 courses in algebra, complex analysis, topology, maybe something like number theory or combo (bonus if a couple of these are graduate level courses)

And ofc do well in those courses

Since your goal is a pure math phd

Also if you can do an REU, that'd be a good way to try math research (maybe you'll hate it, that happened to someone at my REU)

And you can get a good rec letter out of it

In general cultivating rec letters (assuming you're in the US) will be important in addition to your GPA

[smoky jetty]

and/or directed reading under a professor, or undergrad research during the semester

[void horizon]

you should consider applying for a master's program if your grades do not significantly improve, then look to do a phd

[smoky jetty]

Oh that too

[shadow bobcat]

I believe it can be done, I'm not done yet but I was in a similar position Spring 22 when I started at my current university. I transferred from community college with a 2.8 which dropped to a 2.3, since my current school didn't take the grade forgiveness I had done. My gpa is currently a 3.16 which isn't great but I've gotten all As every semester (except a B in badminton lol) this includes all of my math courses stuff like analysis, abstract algebra, linear algebra, graduate courses, etc... Something you should be aiming to do is let your grades tell a story, get all As from now on really focus on doing well in your pure math courses and take graduate level courses if you can. This kind of shows that you can do the work and that you've changed. Another thing that will be helpful is making friends with your professors, get to know them if you can, show them your passion for math most of them will respond positively to this and it'll give them stuff to say about you. Research will also probably help, I started working with a professor early on just to get a taste for it and that's opened up so many opportunities for stuff like chances at publishing (fingers crossed,) conference presentations, and a pretty solid LOR. Doing all of this can show that in spite of your past grades you can succeed at the higher levels and help you to stand out. Try to do an REU if can as well like Spamakin said. If you can tell that kind of redemeption story and really differentiate yourself from others with accomplisments you can stand a chance at PhD admissions. Like Sour Drop said you should look into master's programs as well especially full funded ones, there's a handful in the US. Some aren't very prestigious either so give those a shot. I don't know for sure if all of this will work but this is everything I've been doing!

Also I think having a mentor/research advisor really helps as they can guide you and give you advice on everything.

[smoky jetty]

Are interviews common?

Some of my friends in engineering applying to PhD positions said they're waiting on interview invites

Is this a thing I should be waiting for?

[outer reef]

no

[grand palm]

I don't think it's a thing for math and tcs; could be wrong.

[outer reef]

some schools do it

but most dont

[cold tiger]

After being rejected by all but one uni

[cold tiger]

Not in Math, and his being mentored by a fields medal wasn't a result of his math studies

[shadow bobcat]

Well actually his B.S says physics and astronomy and mathematics. His masters was only in math though.

Also I don't really see your argument here anyways because June Huh went to 3 high ranked schools

[outer reef]

also even if he didnt, very few people resolve a number of open problems during their phd

so i think its a bit ridiculous to think of him as a prototypical grad student lol

[outer reef]

you really think his early-career success in mathematics had nothing to do with his mentor?

[dull sonnet]

Thank you for all the advice. I'll look into REUs and apply to everything as I recover my grades. The Math department in my school isn't offering classes in Abstract Algebra, Topology, Number Theory, and Galois Theory. If I take these classes online or through a summer program would it look good in a CV? On a side note, I would like to keep up to date with you to see how your journey is going.

[outer reef]

it probably depends on the online class/summer program

but abstract alg and topology are basically essential

[shadow bobcat]

Abstract algebra 2 courses, analysis 2 courses, topology, and complex analysis would be ideal

[dull sonnet]

The closest thing that I can find that I could have access to (locally) is a class for Elementary Algebraic Topology. Will this suffice or should I aim for a class for an introduction to Topology?

[outer reef]

idk depends on the syllabi

[granite marsh]

I think they’re saying that him being tutored by a fields medalist was unrelated to his studies in math at that point (irc he hadn’t actually done any math beyond hs then), not that him being so trained had nothing to do with his success. However, given the original talking point was about school prestige and mathematical success, then i don’t think June Huh is a counterexample as if he had gone to a less prestigious school he would not have had the chance to learn directly from a fields medalist/ get an LOR from one and it seems unlikely that the same June Huh everyone knows would exist then

[sinful patrol]

Does a letter explaining low grade for a course actually help?

For context, I’m in Canada applying to biostats program. The course I messed up in is real analysis. All my other math grades are fine (mostly A- to A and some B) except for analysis. It is very very low.

[gleaming fjord]

The best bet is to retake it. Though I don’t think Real Analysis is a focus for biostat programs, unless you apply to somewhere super theoretical

[sinful patrol]

I mean, I’m probably never gonna touch another analysis course again. I scanned through the courses they offer and requirements to graduate, it is all very applied stuff.

But it just currently looks bad on my transcript, especially considering it is the most recent mark I have

[gleaming fjord]

Do you have a valid reason for the low grade?

I will depend a lot on the people who view your application

[outer reef]

what kind of biostats program doesnt require you to learn some math

[sinful patrol]

I just messed up on the final due to lack of rest. But everyone goes through the same thing except those who deferred…

[gleaming fjord]

They do require maths but not analysis, iirc

[sinful patrol]

Well, it is mostly calculus and linear algebra, which I did good in

[outer reef]

what

is it a masters

[sinful patrol]

Yes

[outer reef]

lol

then the grade probably doesnt matter

if the letter will explain it

[gleaming fjord]

Where are you applying to?

If it is not a super duper top program

I think you will be fine

[sinful patrol]

Lmao

[dense spade]

What courses would be beneficial to have prior to a Stats PhD? (Current Pure Math Masters student)

I have taken Probability (non-measure theoretic), Stochastic Processes, Mathematical Stats, Measure Theory, PDEs, Time Series, Multivariate Analysis and most of the standard undergrad math courses (minus Abstract algebra/Topology)

Planning to take Functional Analysis and Graduate Linear Algebra for sure. Have the option to do General Linear Models, Bayesian Stats, Intro to Machine Learning as well as the standard selection of masters level math courses.

(My university has a wide range of grad-level math courses but not much stats. Stats courses here are almost always applications focused/no proofs)

[gleaming fjord]

Pure math degree itself is an overkill for math requirement already

If anything you can take more math stat and probability, cuz I am sure you have to take that in PhD Stat as well. More analysis and linalg is nice too. I think they value courses with rigorous maths

[dense spade]

I was under the impression that a lot of proof based math (esp. Analysis/Probability) help ALOT but I’m concerned that my stats background is lacking

[gleaming fjord]

Don’t worry, those who do phd stats are mostly from maths background

If you did math stat and prob, it is good

Correct me if I am wrong but a lot of stat classes are applied so they matter less than rigorous maths

I think you got to the point of taking classes to help with your research, not to fulfill requirements

Cuz they will teach what you studied anyway

[dense spade]

More probability (stochastic processes II, maybe stochastic calculus for finance) is possible. More math stat probably not due to scheduling.

I definitely need to get some research experience

[gleaming fjord]

You can do that with your thesis

Do you have advanced probability

[dense spade]

I enjoy some math and some stats and was going to take courses beyond the requirements for my masters regardless.

I figured I should guide the choices a bit towards that goal (PhD admission)

I have non measure theoretic probability but self studying measure theoretic over the break

[gleaming fjord]

Does your institution allow you to take phd level courses

You can take those if you can

[dense spade]

My program doesn’t do a masters thesis for pure math but I could probably work with a faculty member

I think we can if we get permission

[gleaming fjord]

I think the general consensus is research/thesis is more important than more maths

Does your institution have phd stat?

I think you can just take those classes

[dense spade]

No, only math

They offer mathematical statistics, probability/stochastic processes at the PhD level and masters level

But the stat courses are masters level and not rigorous/proof based

[gleaming fjord]

Yea taking those will prove that you can do it well in phd program

I must say that a lot of stat degree are geared towards application

So you probably can skip those

[dense spade]

I agree that research is important right now. It might be worthwhile to focus on my required masters courses, learn some Stat through research experience with a professor & take only a few additional courses (but stick with the most challenging Stat/Probability available)

[gleaming fjord]

Yea you can start then identify what you need to learn, then learn those topics while doing research

[dense spade]

I was deciding the best stat courses to take at my school based on the required courses or common Qualifying exam topics for PhD Stats programs. I figured some exposure to those topics would be more important than some random topics course

Sounds like a good plan 🫡

[gleaming fjord]

They usually have an applied stat portion and math stat portion

You can even look up past qual exams

[dense spade]

At my school the stats students are required to do math stat, prob theory and stochastic processes and those are the most “math” heavy in the stat dept

All the other courses revolve heavily around R programming but not fully understanding the mathematics (or simply not needing it to do well in the course)

Oh you meant the quals oops

[gleaming fjord]

I think for the core courses math stat and prob are usually the main topic

They call it theoretical exam

[dense spade]

iirc it’s math stat, prob/stochastic and there was at least one more

[gleaming fjord]

But don’t worry too much I think your stat background is in no way insufficient

[dense spade]

Is it weird to reach out to professors you haven’t taken as a student for research opportunities?

[gleaming fjord]

It could be awkward to some

But i think if you are in the same department

It should be no problem

You can ask your current profs too, maybe some will recommend you to the said person

[dense spade]

That sounds like a good idea. I’m worried my stat background is too limited to be of any assistance, but I’m sure someone will have something I can work on

Thanks for the help!

Are you also working on applying to PhD programs?

[gleaming fjord]

Yep but I am in no way comparable to you

I think you took R right?

From what I read they will ask you to do data cleaning and stuffs

If you are familiar with that then you can help a lot already

[dense spade]

We had to do projects using R, but I feel my programming skills are subpar

I never took a CS course lmao

[gleaming fjord]

It’s alright, not like CS courses will be practical for your specific purpose

I think you can ask your seniors

Or just speak to professors already

There’s nothing to lose to do that

[dense spade]

I’m just so focused on taking as many classes as possible lol

As if there aren’t another 20 waiting for me if I get accepted

[gleaming fjord]

You can ask your professors for input too

Like about the balance between course workload and research

I think you should trim it down a bit if you are unsure

Stay in good health for best results

[dense spade]

I would appreciate if anyone else could offer advice on course selection before applying to PhD programs.

I think I have a pretty good idea tho

[outer reef]

measure theoretic probability is essential i would think

besides that i would think it depends on your interests

i know stats phd students at top programs who are functionally math students & have never taken a statistics course

[tacit lark]

Optimization could be useful

It depends on what you do thouugh

Also some cs courses could be good if you think youd like stuff like learning theory, ml, complexity theory etc

[smoky jetty]

Genuinely have 0 idea about this

so basically all of my apps are due Jan 15th or before

when should I hear back from places? Mid-March?

Also is it either accept or reject, or do some places just never get back to you and ghost you?

[tacit lark]

Some places ghost

You may hear back sometime between late jan and late march

I heard back from some places in feb and some in late march

[smoky jetty]

I see

[inner grove]

Ghosting is very rare. I applied 3 years in a row. I usually heard back around March or April

[torpid echo]

I only got ghosted from places I sent an email to saying I accepted a different offer, and to close my application, and then I didn’t get an “okay will do” or a “rejected” or anything

I did get rejected from UCLA 2 days after the deadlines to accept offers tho, lol

[tacit lark]

I was counting that as ghosting since you didnt find out until after you had to make a decision

I heard from some schools after the deadline

By some schools I mean 1 or 2

[torpid echo]

Tbf I did also email them that I accepted another offer

[dense spade]

Unrelated bachelors, 2.7 GPA. Took 4 Math courses for C’s/D’s retook and got a B+ and A+’s.

Pure math masters high GPA (expecting around 3.7-3.9) which will include additional math/stats courses.

What ranking should I aim for in PhD Stat/Applied Math based on this? Or am I screwed

[gleaming fjord]

A good gpa curve is always appreciated

If you did your master somewhere reputable then it should be fine too

Though below 3 gpa for undergrad can be detrimental, depending on how conservative the committee is

I saw people saying some committees would consider your most recent 60 credits, some just look at relevant/master courseworks, it really depends on who is viewing it

[hexed light]

i'm hoping this makes a large effect. the most advanced topic covered in the standard UG abstract algebra class at my local state school are the definition of a quotient group and the first isomorphism theorem. the equivalent class at my institution covered all of those topics in the first 2-3 weeks. also, the standard first graduate algebra class at a lot of state/lower tier schools in the US essentially cover the undergraduate-level content (basic group/ring theory, some galois theory). at my school, the first graduate algebra class exclusively covers commutative and homological algebra.

idk if this is just my anxiety also but to some extent i have the impression that it actually might be advantageous in some ways to attend a lower ranked school for graduate admissions

for one, the classes are much less rigorous, so its easier to stack a bunch of classes and maintain a close to perfect gpa

for another, the overall competency of your peers is lower, which means that professors will be more impressed by your talent, and will hence write a stronger letter of rec

this is especially reinforced by the fact that a lot of letter of rec forms specifically ask professors to rank their student in comparison to their peers (top 5%, top 10%, etc)

[dense spade]

Lower ranked masters or undergrad?

[hexed light]

undergrad

[dense spade]

Yeah agreed

[hexed light]

i actually even have an even stronger direct point of comparison here. my roommate actually has an associates degree from a state school in new york through a program he did for highly precocious high school students. he won a ton of awards based on his performance there, and he says theres even a plaque at the school's math department commemorating him lol

however for the past four years at our current school, he's been struggling even in undergraduate level classes, consisting finding himself below the median in almost every class

(this is all for schools in the US btw, i have no idea how grading or classes work in other countries)

even then, i feel like the way the grades work in a lot of other countries confers an advantage as well. in the UK for example, no one has a gpa. your degree is just classified as first-class honors, honors, 2:1, etc

and UK applicants with first-class honors degrees just report their gpa as a perfect 4.0, which is ridiculous

[tacit lark]

Its not ridiculous

4.0 at many schools in the US is not particularly impressive

[hexed light]

really? i dont think i know a single math major at my school who has a 4.0 gpa. even the graduate classes have extremely strict grading standards (generally 94/100 is an A, no curve at all)

even just getting a couple A-'s can lower your gpa a lot

[dense spade]

My experiences are mostly in low ranked state schools. I’ve met bachelors students who have taken 2 semester grad-level sequences of Analysis, Algebra, Topology (usually not all of them though) and several grad-level electives before graduation.

I’ve also met masters students who clearly are above the rest of us and realize they ended up here due to life circumstances and clearly could’ve done better.

I’d agree that the average mathematical maturity in a place like this is certainly lower than a better institution. But I’d also argue there is a bigger division amongst the types of students here where one group of students entered the program either because “why not, there is a masters option directly after finishing a bachelors” or “I’ll get a masters in applied math for a data science job” and the second group is highly driven and seeks out those opportunities to excel.

And I think the professors here are really cognizant of that. My $0.02

[hexed light]

well im talking specifically about applying to phd programs

not masters

[tacit lark]

Whether getting a 4.0 is easy or not at many schools is irrelevant. It seems reasonable to me that a first class honors is viewed as being basically equivalent to a 4.0. But I dont think it matters too much

[dense spade]

I know. I agree that a driven student will stand out more in a lower ranked program due to less competitive students, but I think professors are aware of the differences among students.

I also agree it’s easier to keep a high GPA for similar reasons

[hexed light]

wdym?

it just doesnt seem that the small plus conferred by going to a more prestigious undergrad outweighs how much harder it is to stand out among your peers and do well

ive heard a lot of people also say that going to a more prestigious school will result in letters of rec from more famous professors, which are weighted higher

but is there really that much of a difference in fame between tenured professors at a top ranekd school and a tenured professor at a lower-ranked state school?

i feel like a tenured professor at any research university will be very well-known in their field regardless of where they are

[tacit lark]

But to get a good letter you have to be a good student compared to your peers…

I think its unlikely that a famous prof is going to write a strong letter for an average student.

I think going to a good school can help a lot but you still have to do well there.

[tacit lark]

Not at all

[hexed light]

i mean exactly. and its so much harder to be above average at a top school.

[crimson valve]

If you go to a top school you will have more opportunities to be a good student, while in a mid school its much much harder, as the expectation is often that people simply follow the curriculum etc.

[tacit lark]

Ya there are pros and cons. But there is much more competition at top schools.

[crimson valve]

like yes its easy to be a relatively good student in a mid tier school, but that only entails getting some good grades and taking standard classes

[tacit lark]

Going to a school with good resources and opportunities helps a ton

[crimson valve]

yeah, I liked ASU but the truth is i had to create a lot of the opportunities for myself and otherwise fight for it. And even then i feel like i didnt get to do a lot of things people from top UGs would get to have done

[tacit lark]

“the expectation that people simply follow the curriculum” is very true at many places.

[crimson valve]

in contrast to here in waterloo where like

first the standard cirriculum itself is already really really good

like proof based math from first sem etc

[tacit lark]

Ya i went to a school much lower ranked than asu.

[crimson valve]

but also you have many directed reading programs, research opportunities etc

and you dont have to do a lot to get into one of these

at ASU i basically had to set up the reading courses myself lol

[hexed light]

are there really more research opportunities at top schools? i dont know anyone at my school that did research with a professor other than for a senior thesis

pretty much everyone ik with research experience did so at an external REU

[crimson valve]

so idk if i agree its harder to be a "good student" in top schools. in some aspects maybe

[hexed light]

maybe for other stem subjects where you can get research experience by just joining a huge lab it might be the case that going to a top school is better

but of course thats not how research works at all for pure math

[crimson valve]

well im pure math so im speaking for that.

I guess the way i'd say it is in mid teir school professors are not really used to having UGs on research (so often this opportunity doesnt really exist or if it does its not as polished)

while at a top school this is a regular thing

Ofcourse I am talking about like, doing research with a professor at your own school

[hexed light]

to my knowledge not really. professors are super busy and dont have the time to advise undergrads on a research proejct

[tacit lark]

This is not my experience

[crimson valve]

Like we have many learning and research seminars here at waterloo (an absurd number infact) so an UG could easily just attend it

and then if they connect with a prof

they could do some research

[gleaming fjord]

If you have low faculty to student ratio, maybe you would get more help

This is another advantage of top schools, they have really small class size

[crimson valve]

i dont think thats true dalliance

the class size here is pretty big atleast, and also at many of the top schools

[gleaming fjord]

I think I made a mistake

Would private top schools hold that true?

[hexed light]

hold what true?

[crimson valve]

this is a big vs small school thing

which is usually independent of top vs not top

[gleaming fjord]

Low faculty and student ratio

[hexed light]

i'd say its generally true but restricting to just math majors, my guess is that the ratio is much more comparable

theres 200+ math majors at my school for example

[gleaming fjord]

That does not seem to be a very big number, if we are talking about all students

[hexed light]

i also think that generally speaking the expectation is to just follow the curriculum at top schools as well

i think the difference in expectation in curriculum is more so present between US and non-US schools

at my school the only requirement to fulfill the math major is just to take 10 math classes

theres actually quite a few senior math majors i know who havent taken basic classes like abstract algebra or complex analysis

[gleaming fjord]

So they have lax requirement?

[hexed light]

yep

[crimson valve]

interesting. I would not say this is the case in waterloo from what I have seen

are you in princeton by any chance 👁️

[tacit lark]

Not the case at harvard in my experience

[hexed light]

nope but a comparably ranked school, also an ivy

i do know a lot of ppl at princeton though from an REU

[tacit lark]

Maybe the average student does. But a lot of people try to take a lot of grad classes, do research etc

[hexed light]

yeah to my knowledge the curriculum requirements in canada are MUCH stricter. i have a few friends who go to mcgill, and they have to take 20+ math classes just for the major

[crimson valve]

maybe generalizing to "top schools" is wrong of me. Atleast from what I have heard from other friends the general trend is a lot of people take grad classes, do research etc

[gleaming fjord]

I think it depends on the faculty too. Some maybe more conservative

[hexed light]

they certainly do but it takes a while to figure out that this is something you do have to do to be competitive for grad admissions

[tacit lark]

Taking a lot of difficult courses is like a badge of honor.

[hexed light]

i made the huge mistake of taking it easy my first two years

and so i had to grind like hell the past two years

taking 3-4 grad classes a semester

to make up for it

[tacit lark]

Id say this is a thing at many schools but I find it much more prevalent at top schools

[gleaming fjord]

It could be a plan of the faculty to have strict and tough curriculum to push students to do phd

[crimson valve]

Like at waterloo a lot of the "1st year" grad courses

are majority undergrads

[hexed light]

same with my school

except for the super-advanced topics classes

[crimson valve]

right

Like this is kinda normal i guess is what i mean, students taking grad courses or reading courses and things like that. Maybe people are still expected to follow the curriculum but going outside is pretty normal too

I gtg oof

[hexed light]

also how do reading courses exactly factor into an application? for my school at least the transcript basically just says "reading course" and its graded pass/fail

probably through the recommendations?

[smoky jetty]

You can talk about what you learned in the reading course

In your statement

I did that because the directed reading I did is what got me interested in commutative algebra and algebraic geometry

And those two things set me towards what I (currently) want to study

But yea talk about that in your personal statement

Because at the least it's like "look here is some (probably more advanced) math I studied outside of my coursework"

Also if you get a letter of rec from the prof you did the course with, that'd probably be a good letter

[outer reef]

the letter is the only thing that matters

you should talk about it in your statement of purpose but mainly because omitting it but having your letter writer discuss it would look odd

of course you should try to fit it in with the general narrative youre constructing, as spamakin indicates

but just saying “i did a reading course” doesnt really mean anything (relative to an actual course with a good grade on your transcript) without an actual mathematician backing you up

[shadow bobcat]

This is how I've felt at like a second tier state school. But I did it feel it was easier to standout since a lot of the students are just looking for jobs and the professors have been receptive just the bureaucracy wasn't setup for students who are really interested in math in mind

[smoky jetty]

Yea for me at a good state school, standing out is hard

I kinda gave up trying to compare myself to the standout people

[crimson cradle]

hey guys im applying to statistics masters this year and im having some trouble writing my SOP

i have no research or TA experience

i switched into math in my senior year (currently fifth year) and have excelled beyond what I thought id do (4.0 gpa), so im planning on writing a bit about that

besides that and my research interests, what the fuck do I talk about?

[smoky jetty]

Why did you switch to math

Or I guess stats

Why the switch to stats from whatever you were studying before

Write about that

[pulsar isle]

Hello, I’m interested in applying to some masters programs in germany, particularly at UBonn and Tu Munich. How competitive are admissions to these masters programs? I’m just curious

Feel free to dm in order to reply if you don’t want your answer to be public

[violet karma]

<@&268886789983436800>

This is ads and should be deleted, right?

[fluid nebula]

Maybe!

[crimson cradle]

am i screwed for writing my CV? I have no research, no conferences, no talks, no clubs, no projects in my classes, no internships

[outer reef]

what have you been doing instead of those things lol

[shadow bobcat]

Idk I feel like 3 of those are all together, the next I don't feel matters much unless it's math related, and the last two feel like more CS oriented than math

[outer reef]

yeah

well

not talks

you can give talks at some seminar

[shadow bobcat]

Idk if I wasn't doing research if I would have gone to conferences or given talks at those conference

[outer reef]

expository things

[shadow bobcat]

Personally my school doesn't run seminar talks for undergrads they're mainly for professors really

[outer reef]

i mean

yeah

thats typical

but also it’s extremely common to have grad student seminars

which are often not about cutting edge research

[crimson cradle]

was a basically a bum for the first 3 years of degree

last 2 years was catching up after program switch

i mean honestly, i'm willing to take an extra year if needed to catch up further with a thesis, TA experience, etc.

[outer reef]

but like

even non math things

i dont think any of these things matter much if your rec letters are good

[crimson cradle]

i mean i had jobs

[outer reef]

ok then say that lol

[stoic jewel]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice here. I approached a professor in a school that I applied to and just got an email back saying we could have a zoom meeting and he will introduce me to the department(I believe he is the undergraduate advisor). I think he's gonna say he can't be my supervisor but some ppl in the school can. I still want to accept the meeting, but I'm worried because it's not one of the schools I want to attend the most. What should I say if he asks me something like "are you gonna accept the offer if that happens"? Maybe not exactly that, but I'm just worried that I might sound disinterested. Because I am interested, but I don't want to sound too sure...

[hexed ibex]

This is like looking for a job

You apply to 50 places and get 5 interviews and ofc in all of them you act like you’re enthusiastic about the place

[stoic jewel]

yeah ok I was just wondering what specifically should I say when. being asked questions like that

cause I don't want to be impolite but don't want to lie either

[hexed ibex]

Someone else might object but saying you’ll go there is not a commitment at this stage
They have a large candidate pool and always send out a lot more offers than their program can admit

[shell kindle]

"If I am offered a position at your school, I will judge based on the offer I receive and any others I may have received, so I am unable to guarantee that I would attend right now" or something

[hexed ibex]

If not enough people choose to go eventually they even send offers to people they rejected

This being unprofessional aside the market is in their favor (and hence they can afford to be unprofessional should it be necessary)

[stoic jewel]

oh ok that sounds good, thank you for your input

[pliant loom]

Can someone explain to me what “Good letters of recommendation” even do/what that means? If my school doesn’t have any connections with a good grad school, aren’t all my professors gonna say the same thing about any student they write anything for? Like if I impress X professor, that’s not the same thing as impressing the admissions committee. They can be like “cool, he got three recommendations, now that we know that we don’t have to read them” do you see what I mean?

[outer reef]

what do you mean by "connections with a good grad school"

and what does it have to do with your recommendation letters?

and why do you think the admissions committees wont read your letters?

[pliant loom]

I mean, my professors all went to random small rank <300 schools, so their recommendations might hold less weight than the recommendation of a Harvard grad etc., and I wasn’t saying they wouldn’t read them I was saying they don’t seem to have incentives to? Don’t all letters look kinda the same is what I was getting at, I really have no idea I’m more looking for clarification

[outer reef]

what do you mean incentive lol

do you think they only read applications where a bribe is attached

also no

that is not how it works at all

[pliant loom]

No I’m saying they get all the info they need from who wrote it right? I’m just asking what info they glean from a letter I’m not being contrarian I’m genuinely asking as someone very poor at navigating the academic bureaucracy

[outer reef]

no

that could not be more wrong

[pliant loom]

Okay please explain to me I understood I was likely wrong

[outer reef]

first of all

unless you have a really famous letter writer

theres a high chance the admissions committee will not know who the person is

whether or not they were a grad student at harvard

anyway even if the person is famous

it doesnt really matter

all this does is help the person reading the letter calibrate

like

say im reading a letter by person A who i know personally, or who is well-known in math

then i might have a rough sense of how to interpret the level of praise theyre giving

A might have a reputation for writing overly glowing letters, say, maybe A writes "this student is the best ive ever worked with" on every letter

or conversely maybe A is known for having really high standards

then something less positive, like "this student is decent" could still be interpreted as quite a strong recommendation

etc.

but that is really it

idk why you think admissions committees dont read letters

my strongest recommendation was from a prof who i am quite certain was unknown to every member of every admissions committee where i applied

[pliant loom]

I didn’t say they don’t read them, I’m saying say case B where you don’t know the professor: how can said professors word mean anything? You don’t know if he gives everyone glowing reviews right?

In addition I don’t even have the faintest idea as to the contents of a letter of recommendation IE: their length, format, conventions etc

[outer reef]

idk either i havent read any

[outer reef]

well yeah i mean, both of my examples were meant to hint at the letter being fairly weak

ideally the prof would know you well

and have concrete examples to point to

[pliant loom]

Sorry just a clarification I meant you don’t know the professor as in you are the committee member in the scenario

The professor knows the student very well

[outer reef]

oh

but i mean

a glowing review with concrete examples

is way more believable

than generic praise

[pliant loom]

And this would go relatively far? Should I be concerned on whether my professors are good writers? I suppose you can’t reach professorship without being good enough 🤔

[smoky jetty]

There are also things that could be bad to write

so one prof of mine said that some of his letters when he first applied to grad school said he was "smart but lazy" essentially

which is obviously bad

[outer reef]

i dont think you should be concerned about this as you cannot control it

you should focus on cultivating strong relationships with professors and demonstrating your mathematical abilities to them

in a variety of contexts

[pliant loom]

Very wise, and thank you for holding two conversations with me at once lol you are appreciated

[smoky jetty]

right but part of cultivating strong relationships is making sure you don't come off as lazy or something

[outer reef]

wym

oh sure

i meant

one shouldnt be concerned with bad writing

yes you should try not to seem lazy lol

[pliant loom]

So basically the game in undergrad is appearing intelligent and determined and hard working to professors is very important

[outer reef]

i mean

dont stress out about it too much

but yeah

you shoulld talk to profs

[smoky jetty]

profs should ideally know who you are past just "they showed up and did well in my class"

going to office hours to discuss the material is always good (and imo something people should do regardless of if they want a letter or not)

[umbral escarp]

Anyone got a nice Latex CV template?

[violet karma]

In pinned messages, there is a moderncv.zip. I like that.

[umbral escarp]

Thanks. Do I just use one of the templates from the cv folder or do I need to copy these style files to my Latex directory first?

[violet karma]

I used the SampleResume.tex. I just copied the latex code into overleaf and it works well.

[crimson cradle]

should i talk about my multiple program switches in my SOP? I'm trying to spin it as "Given my previous two programs, the fact I'm still in math and vastly more academically succesful is a sign that I truly enjoy the subject"

but i feel like some profs may read it as "this guy is indecisive as fuck"

[vestal swan]

I personally wouldn’t mention it at all in your SOP. Most applications have a space for you to talk about circumstances regarding your transcript and that’s where you talk about your program switches

[crimson cradle]

none of my applications have that lol

im at the point where I upload my docs and submit so there is none of that unfortunately

also my CV is very light so I don't have much to talk about on my SOP, if that makes sense

[slim canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz42lx6BhqY i found this quite informative

[crimson cradle]

thanks! that was a very good video

definitely made me more confident in what is "ok" to write on my SOP

[tough ice]

Hi, guys, when is it normal to be invited for an interview if the application deadline is around mid-December?

[worthy apex]

Depends! I think I had my first interview in March, but I also didn't get in first round anywhere.

[tough ice]

Thanks!

[granite ravine]

What are considered the most prestigious and important reasearch institutions in the world?

I know ivy league is good, but for example there are places like Ecole Normale or Ecole polytechnique in France that don't come up in the mainstream google search "top universities..."

Just curious

[outer reef]

ias

[smoky jetty]

Simons Institute (although that's more TCS than pure math)

[void horizon]

what are some schools doing active research in mathematical logic?

the question is intentionally broad since i want to look further into any schools mentioned

[granite marsh]

Bonn, Copenhagen

Really any strong uni that’s not in the NA (or England, though to a lesser extent maybe as I don’t know how well known imperial is for example)

I suppose you knew that already though

[weary acorn]

If nobody has a dedicated list you can always try and dig through individual schools using sites like https://www.ams.org/find-graduate-programs and looking through faculty interest type pages.

[outer reef]

ucla, berkeley, notre dame, carnegie mellon, some schools in canada (idr which)

[weary acorn]

I couldn't find a dedicated list on foundations related topics previously

It's not uncommon for smaller schools to have a small handful of foundations ppl too.

[outer reef]

yeah

those four have large groups it seems

and whatever schools in canada im failing to remember

[void horizon]

waterloo?

[outer reef]

idk

i remember the names of canadian schools i just dont remember which have logic

[inner grove]

I've heard that UC Irvine has some people working in that, but I'm unsure if they're in the math department

UCLA had some logicians when I was there as well

[outer reef]

also you should ask in #foundations

[wicked dew]

two different applications, same math

[raw quail]

you're in the wrong channel buddy

[wicked dew]

language barrier, just read graduate applications and thought this was where to post

don't see "quantum mechanics" anywhere in the channels

[shadow bobcat]

Well that's because this is the math server for that it might be best to go to the physics server in #old-network

[dense spade]

How do I get an idea of where I should apply to PhD programs?

[wicked dew]

nowhere in that server does it have a QM channel, but QM is maths, but whatever

[outer reef]

if you knew enough QM for rigorous math to be important, you’d know which channel to use

[outer reef]

ask your letter writers

[wicked dew]

nah you guys are just trolls, assuming I don't know Quantum Mechanics when you don't even know me

[dense spade]

I’m assuming the best letter writers will be the ones with connections at many universities who might know professors looking to take on grad students?

[outer reef]

um

[dense spade]

I’m sorry if I’m asking stupid questions, I’m just looking at how this all works for the first time

[outer reef]

not necessarily

are you applying in the US

[dense spade]

Yes

[outer reef]

then no its not really about that, but probably most good letter writers happen to fit that description

you just want established mathematicians

tenured profs

[dense spade]

I know I should apply to programs where there is active research in areas I would be interested in.

From what I’ve seen so far, advisor pairing happens after passing Quals?

[outer reef]

most importantly they should know you well

so they can say more than “this student took my class and got a good grade”

[outer reef]

yeah

well it depends

usually people know who theyre working with around the end of their first year

maybe middle of second

formally being paired up is another story but also doesnt matter as much

[dense spade]

I see. So usually a student will be admitted into a program having an idea of who they want to advise them (and maybe some back ups)

[outer reef]

yeah

but it varies

i didnt know my advisor existed until after i was admitted

[dense spade]

I’m asking about where to start looking because I have a super low (2.69) undergrad GPA with some low grades in core classes. Most of which were retaken for A’s tho

I was an unrelated major tho

[outer reef]

so have you taken math courses?

or learned math?

[dense spade]

Yeah I’m in a masters program

[outer reef]

oh ok

idk ask profs

[dense spade]

Alright, thanks for the help!

[outer reef]

they may have served on admissions committees

and can better comment on your particular application/recommend programs

np

[smoky jetty]

What the actual fuck OSU already got back to me?

I got in?

Seems really really early

[torpid echo]

OSU is a pretty good school

I mean, Ohio but

https://tenor.com/view/qyuwi-qyuwi-ai-ohio-gary's-mod-running-gif-4748032648497466694

[raw quail]

congrats but also heads up that we strongly discourage talking about decisions here

[smoky jetty]

oops ok

[void horizon]

what if it means oregon

[torpid echo]

It doesn’t

[tall token]

you have OSU and the OSU. It should be clear which is which.

[tacit lark]

Ohio state always sends some acceptances early

[tacit lark]

Congrats

[granite marsh]

Must have been a top applicant

[pulsar furnace]

Okay but OSU and The OSU are both Ohio State

[feral depot]

rhythm is just a click away

[crimson cradle]

McMaster University in Canada has a large model theory group

[gleaming fjord]

Isn’t Oklahoma also an osu

Too many of them share the same abbreviation

[hexed ibex]

U of I suffers from the same problem

[tight ruin]

Anyone here do materials science engineering?

[young yoke]

where do i go to ruin my week (see these discussions)

[main marlin]

Carnegie Mellon also has a very solid logic group

[umbral escarp]

How do I get the photo to show up in the CV template from this channel? I uncommented the line and copied the picture to the folder (with the right filename), but it just won't show up.

[undone yacht]

what is the error message

[granite marsh]

this for bonn?

[granite marsh]

If I may ask

[umbral escarp]

Yep.

[umbral escarp]

There is no error message, it compiles, but the photo simply does not appear.

[granite marsh]

I just threw mine at the bottom of my CV, it doesn’t look great but I couldn’t find any format specifications and was much easier. I’m guessing the they only want it for account creation if you enrol

[shy thunder]

I got into John Hopkins

Not my number 1 but still pretty content rn

[outer reef]

ok

[pulsar furnace]

Relevant.

[vale stream]

Oh, you got into John Hopkins? Well I got into S(John Hopkins) hmph 😤

[shy thunder]

Nice

[shy thunder]

But why did u write it like that

[lunar sphinx]

Successor(Johns Hopkins), i.e. Johns Hopkins + 1.

[shy thunder]

Ah, I see😂

[hearty radish]

I’m going to harp on this because it seems that ryx's reply (or just Tox's post) went unnoticed, but talking about admissions decisions is discouraged in this channel because it only causes stress to those who may have not heard anything back yet.
We are happy to hear that you’ve been admitted, but we want to respect the mental health of others in this stressful period of time

#graduate-applications message This is the message sent last year about this

[dire mortar]

Hello everyone!
I'm going to apply to some mathematical-physics-related PhD programs in the UK, and I'm a bit confused about the procedure.
Is anybody here doing a PhD in the UK who would be willing to answer some of my questions and help me a bit with my application?

Also if anyone else is applying for a PhD too, I'd be glad to join them so we can proofread each other's SOPs/proposals/CVs/ ...

[tepid forum]

i applied for maths in the uk

[dire mortar]

Is it okay if I DM you?

[sullen hazel]

Hi, does anyone know what percentage of interviewed students are admitted usually? (At schools that conduct interviews)

Also, if they ask you "why our school", is it okay to include financial aspects?

[tacit lark]

This obviously depends on the school.

[sullen hazel]

Yes, do you know where I can find an average?

[outer reef]

like what

[tacit lark]

No. How would you find that lol.

[sullen hazel]

For example, I've never had financial stability at home, so attending a fancy brand name school would solve this issue forever for me, since I could go to the industry after attending that school if I can't make it in academia

[tacit lark]

Not as easy as that but it can help

[outer reef]

uh probably not

there are much easier ways to make money lol

you should talk about the things that are most important to you about the school

prestige is fine to care about but its usually possible to talk instead about more concrete things that correlate with prestige

[sullen hazel]

I was planning to include:
-research interests of faculty align with mine
-location
-student/prof ratio

Also
-good friend of mine studying there

I'm an international student so I'd be all alone if not for my friend, so I thought of including him

[outer reef]

is this for a phd program?

[sullen hazel]

Yes

[outer reef]

ok then probably only the first one is relevant

location maybe? but idts

[sullen hazel]

What else can I include?

[outer reef]

nothing

[sullen hazel]

[outer reef]

theres nothing to say really

[sullen hazel]

[outer reef]

write whatever you want lol

[sullen hazel]

It's oral

[outer reef]

what?

[sullen hazel]

It's an interview

[outer reef]

what program

[sullen hazel]

Math

[outer reef]

..

what university

[sullen hazel]

It's embarrassing to say

[outer reef]

ok

hard to give advice then

math interviews vary wildly by school though

[sullen hazel]

Which ones do you have info about?

[outer reef]

its not like other scientific disciplines where interviews are the norm

[pulsar isle]

if its an interview you're fine they probably wont you ask something that obvious

[outer reef]

idk

yeah id generally agree

and they’ve already read your application so like

[sullen hazel]

They told me it'd be 15 min and I'd have the chance to ask stuff

[tall token]

yea stick to what you wrote in SOP would be fine I thought

[outer reef]

they probably wont ask you

[sullen hazel]

Okay thank you

[outer reef]

why you’re interested

but you can prepare an answer

your goal should be to convince them that you would succeed there

[sullen hazel]

I'll be super sad if they don't admit me after an interview

[outer reef]

and would strongly consider attending if admitted

[tacit lark]

ya it sucks but its how it goes

[outer reef]

they wouldn’t do interviews if they didn’t use them to distinguish between applicants lol

maybe mentioning a friend is worth it if it comes up

but only if one of the interviewers is their advisor or smth

it probably wont help you get admitted regardless

[sullen hazel]

I only want to give an honest answer

[tepid forum]

sorry for delay, sure

[paper granite]

This is probably a hard question for anyone to answer unless theyre either on an admissions team or have perhaps applied to US PhDs from the UK but,

Im interested in going to the US for PhDs, however its the opinion of my university that grade bands work as 40-49% is adequate, 50-59% is good, 60-69% is very good and everything above that is exceptional and they try to make the marks reflect that, as in they emphasise that we should be very happy to get 6/10 in a homework etc.

I think this is much more of a common approach to things in the UK than in the US where your grades are expected to be considerably higher, i tend to average in the 70s and ive heard thats considered pretty bad over there. So my question is, will admissions boards be aware of this? Or is it likely that any applications to the US will struggle because the grades just look comparatively terrible?

Im also not applying untill next year, this isnt exactly a pressing issue, but its just something ive been worried about, thanks!

[weary acorn]

This might be worth mentioning by you in your sop and/or by your letter writers in your letters of rec?

[tough ice]

Yeah, some unis will ask you to compute your GPA in 4.0 through some GPA calculator, e.g. WES gpa calculator. I think 70s in most gpa calculator corresponds to 4.0

[latent wigeon]

In my opinion, the thing that matters most is that you are actually interested in someone's work who is faculty there.

You should look through the faculty and their papers and see if anyone is doing something you find interesting.

Just wanting to go to the school because "it's supposed to be a good school" is not a high level of interest. Do they have a good person in discipline X that you have a passion about? That is a good reason.

You should have specific names and examples in mind imo

When I visited the school I ended up going to, I went and found the prof I was interested in and talked with him a while. Would be a shame if he was a jerk, right? You get stuck working with this person for quite a long time. Turns out he was nice.

But I'm glad I found out ahead of time...some students in my program got themselves into pickles

[frosty pond]

How did you approach him? And what questions did you end up asking that you're glad you asked?

[latent wigeon]

I just walked into the building and said "anyone know where he is" lol. They all know each other.

I asked him to explain his field, and what he enjoys about it. I was trying to gauge whether he is passionate, or just likes to grind.

I also asked him something philosophical/conceptual to gauge whether he cares...many math folks don't, I do.

And some just basic relatable banter to see if he was a jerk. He laughed. That's about it.

It wasn't that profound, I just put myself in front of him and found out if he was nice to me or not

He is now one of my closest friends 6 years later

It is really, really nice to get along with your advisor

Beyond just mathematically

[frosty pond]

That's awesome!

[latent wigeon]

I would say hands down that whether you like your advisor as a person is more important than where you go. I spent a lot of sweat about admissions, but looking back on it...the whole process is basically a personal interaction between you and your advisor, and the main thing a career hinges on is just whether you are really willing to make the math happen...and you can do that anywhere. Any of the R1 schools are filled with extremely smart people.

And for those who aren't aware, R1 does not mean "Harvard", any state school is typically an R1

[paper granite]

I did attend a PhD information evening a few months ago and they did mention that you should tell your references if you’re applying to the US because they need to write the letters in a very different style (just due to cultural differences) but I wasn’t sure if this is the kind of thing that can be mentioned.

Reassuring to hear that this is the case though, and the comment about conversion services that account for it is also good

[sullen hazel]

I did this before applying! :D

[visual lagoon]

Notice: Since graduate applications are ending for many and people are starting to get back results, we will be closing this channel in one week, on Saturday January 28, to avoid people comparing their admissions decisions, which can often lead to a toxic environment. We wish everyone the best of luck!

[tacit lark]

I dont think its necessary to like your advisor as a person. You can just have a good professional relationship with them.

It sounds nice though

[smoky jetty]

Unsure if this is the right channel

I'm applying for a fellowship and they want an updated CV

My REU paper got accepted into a journal

But we're still in the process of making the revisions from the reviewer

On the CV can I say the paper was accepted or can I only say submitted?

[tacit lark]

If it was accepted you can say accepted

[smoky jetty]

neato

[undone yacht]

(accepted) or (in press) is kind of standard

[latent wigeon]

I didn't mean to imply it's necessary to like them as a person, more that (imo) it's necessary to be able to get along with them in a way that isn't painful. I got lucky.

[tame oriole]

Hey, do you know any graduate school that I could attend remotely

I guess this would be more likely to be offered for a masters course

[gleaming fjord]

What type of programs are you interested in? There should be a lot of online master programs but they can be expensive

[crimson cradle]

what are some good questions to ask potential MSc supervisors?

[shy thunder]

Depends on the program/degree that you want to get. Are you trying to get a degree in engineering, math, cs, etc?

[tame oriole]

Well, pure math, possibly geometry/topology/analysis related, and hopefully free

[smoky jetty]

free and remote is unlikely since as far as I can tell stipends are tied to you being a TA

[tame oriole]

I can be a remote TA 🤣

[undone yacht]

I have remote TA:s 🙂

[cobalt horizon]

I was a remote ra for a year, would recommend 🤣

[torpid echo]

There is no way in hell you’ll get a paid masters remote

(Source “dude just trust me”)

[stoic jewel]

Can I ask has anyone had experience with masters conditional offers in Canada? I've applied to bunch of Canadian institutions for master's program, I'm final year undergrad in a Math & CS program and I only have one math course this semester, modules rings and groups, and I got a 68.... It won't tank my GPA but I'm just worried what if they give me an offer with the condition being I have to do well on math courses for the last year. Or would they not really care? (I don't really know what is the usual condition in conditional offers)

I have the chance to redo the exam in two weeks, but I doubt I could do better in such short time.

my average in other (CS, physics) courses this semester is like 90

I'm freaking out over this if anyone could give me some input I would be very grateful 🥲

[spiral rune]

condition being I have to do well
surely this is precisely defined somewhere

but as with everything... talk to your department

[stoic jewel]

um I'm just asking because I haven't gotten any decision back yet and if I ask they will just tell me to wait for the decision...

[shy thunder]

Not unless you get a bunch of stipends and scholarships or have an employer pay for it

[shy thunder]

I can't speak for Canada but I can speak on my personal experience. I don't think they'll care too much if you have a good and upward/postive track on ur transcript. I'm an undergrad, and I took a grad course and got an F in cuz of some personal stuff. It dropped my GPA. I applied to only 2 masters programs for applied and computational math (with the F on my transcript) and both programs accepted me with full admission - no conditional/provisional status. All the other places I applied to for engineering and physics also accepted me. So if I were you, I really wouldn't worry

[stoic jewel]

Oh, were you in your final year of undergrad when you applied? I thought if you haven’t received diploma they will only give conditional offers

[tacit lark]

That doesnt sound like the norm

[shy thunder]

yea

I just applied a month ago

They gave me full acceptance and they said to just send official transcripts once I'm finished

[stoic jewel]

My gpa isn't stellar overall is 86 (A if letter grades) I got some 70s in probability and other algebra courses, I was told by professor that my letters could make up for it, but yeah. I'm just worried since Idk if my grades would be good enough and if they want more confirmation of my status in last year

may I ask which country you applied to?

[shy thunder]

US

[stoic jewel]

O

unrelated I applied to Upenn in the US lol

[shy thunder]

nice

[stoic jewel]

I thought PhD programs would be more competitive so I applied to almost all masters in Canada

[shy thunder]

I would've applied but then I was like that's a lot of money if I go there

[stoic jewel]

even though it's probably harder for me to get a Canadian visa

wdym? I thought PhD is free

[shy thunder]

I'm not going for a PhD

[stoic jewel]

oh oki my bad

[shy thunder]

For the career that I want to do it wouldn't make sense for me personally to get a PhD

[stoic jewel]

yeah, I see

[shy thunder]

they have ur transcript so they can see ur grades. And like u said LoR and personal statements can really put u over the edge

you should be fine. One bad/mediocre grade isn't gonna kill you

[stoic jewel]

yeah I hope so